1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I was rewatching like 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: the one where Elaine goes to this party and is 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: dancing and then everyone who is at the party loses 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: respect for her because she like dances. She has no rhythm. 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: It's like completely just abject horrible dancing. 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: No, that ain't dancing, Sally, I dance fine, you sneak. 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: My colleague Annie Massa has always had a soft spot 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: for Seinfeld. I had to tell her my favorite George moment. 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: I love when he works for the Yankees and he 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: just doesn't know what he's supposed to do. His boss 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: like tells him like, there's only one thing you. 12 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Have to do. Well, I was wondering, I mean, you 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: happen been to payroll and he like, botcha that? 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah payroll. 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: No, No, I haven't done that. What's the problem? Now, 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: come on, George. 17 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: Annie has been catching up on old Seinfeld clips recently 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: for work. Because the show isn't just iconic TV, it's 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 2: also been extremely lucrative for its co creator and namesake, 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: Jerry Seinfeld. Today on the show how a Show About 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 2: Nothing made Seinfeld a billionaire and why Seinfeld's success with 22 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 2: syndication and streaming could be so hard to replicate. This 23 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: is the big take from Bloomberg News. 24 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Holder, I'm Annie Massa, and I'm a reporter 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: on the Wealth team at Bloomberg News. 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: So you cover wealth and wealthy people for Bloomberg. Today, 27 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: we're here to talk about a new addition to Bloomberg's 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: list of billionaires who made his money not from finance 29 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: or from tech, but from comedy, Jerry Seinfeld. Why did 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: you start looking into Seinfeld's net worth? 31 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: So it's been known for a while that he's very, 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: very wealthy. Of course, Seinfeld was a huge hit all 33 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: through the nineties, and it's no own that Seinfeld has 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: some pretty expensive real estate, this huge collection of vintage cars, 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: and he is just such a well known figure that 36 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: we figured it might be time to take a look 37 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: at how much wealth he's accumulated over these years of 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: megasyndication deals and streaming deals and touring and just tally 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: up his wealth and his net worth. And as we 40 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: did that, the calculation that we did proved he was 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: a billionaire. 42 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: And how much of a billionaire is he? How much 43 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: money does he have? 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: We're comfortable saying that he's above the one billion dollar threshold. 45 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: There are pieces of his net worth that we weren't 46 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: able to value, like those vintage cars. But because the 47 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: bulk of it is coming from syndication, from streaming deals, 48 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: touring revenue, he's cleared the billion dollar threshold. 49 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: So you talked about that Tally, Can you say more 50 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: about how you came to the figure. 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely, so, as we looked at the different pieces of 52 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: Signinfeld's net worth, there were a few discrete chunks that 53 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: were the most important. Syndication deals for Seinfeld are a 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: huge piece of his net worth, and those deals played 55 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: a significant role in his net worth. By our account, 56 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: he'd earned more than four hundred million dollars from syndication 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: deals alone. Then there are other streaming deals. So something 58 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: that's interesting about Seinfeld is that he was really able 59 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: to navigate from this huge hip show and a really 60 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: different era of American TV into a completely different model, 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: which is a streaming model. But he has the fortune 62 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: that Seinfeld is such an enduring hit. Really that all 63 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: the mega streaming companies like Netflix really were in a 64 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: race to get the global streaming rights. So Netflix paid 65 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: more than five hundred million dollars for the global streaming 66 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: rights to Seinfeld several years ago, and Seinfeld was able 67 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: to get around one hundred million dollars just from streaming, 68 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: and then on top of that, he also does live 69 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: to So we went into some data that tracks touring 70 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: revenue for all kinds of different entertainers, and we found 71 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: that he had in the realm of about one hundred 72 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: million dollars of touring revenue, and we used an index 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: to track returns as though he'd invested in a somewhat 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: conservative way over that span of time since around nineteen 75 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: ninety and that gets you to the threshold of over 76 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: a billion dollars, even setting aside the vintage cars. 77 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 2: And what iss Seinfeld's team said about your reporting. 78 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: The Seinfeld team, we reached out to give them an 79 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: overview of our analysis, what went into it, what we 80 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: had calculated. They said that it was inaccurate, but they 81 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: didn't comment any further, and we completely acknowledged that when 82 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: you're doing these valuations, of course, you know, surprise like 83 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: this doesn't come from Jerry Seinfeld showing me his bank statements. 84 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: So that's what you're working with, and that's what they 85 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: had to say. 86 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: So let's get into the history of Seinfeld. Was Seinfeld 87 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: an immediate success. 88 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: No, it took a while for it to heat up. 89 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: There's this classic line about it, how it's a show 90 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: about nothing. I think that in subsequent interviews, Seinfeld has said, Okay, 91 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: that might have run away a little bit. It wasn't 92 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: supposed to be entirely about nothing, but it's kind of 93 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: based on this brand of observational comedy that he honed 94 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: and just the idea that you can find a tremendous 95 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: amount of humor in very everyday things. As it built 96 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: over the years, it just completely topped the Nielsen ratings. 97 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: It became one of the most famous, most beloved sitcoms ever, 98 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: and he famously kind of walked away while it was 99 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: at the top as well, instead of letting it overstay. 100 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: Its welcome on TV, even though the finale is very polarizing. 101 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: But it went out definitely when it was still on top. 102 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: But now it's in this zone I would say, where 103 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: you know, Netflix paid top dollar for these streaming rights 104 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: because it's almost the comfort of television where if you're 105 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: a Seinfeld fan and your homesick eating soup on your 106 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: couch or something, it might feel really good to just 107 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: throw on an old Seinfeld episode that you already know, 108 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: go back to something that you already know you're gonna 109 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: find hilarious. And there are a couple of shows like this, 110 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: I think Friends follows in that category. More recent shows 111 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: like The Office can fall into that category for people, 112 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: but there's just a handful of them. So Seinfeld occupies 113 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: that place for people now. 114 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: So you seem like the perfect person to tell us 115 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: about what made Seinfeld so popular in its heyday, and 116 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 2: you spoke to a lot of people who tried to 117 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: understand how the show about nothing was so resonant. 118 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, as I was working on this story, I wanted 119 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: to get at that question because it's such a given 120 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: now that Seinfeld is so well known, and so I 121 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: was trying to answer the question of how and why 122 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: did it get so popular to begin with. So one 123 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: person I asked about that was Jennifer Kishen Armstrong, who 124 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: wrote a whole book on Seinfeld and the fan and 125 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: that it inspired, called Seinfeldia, And something that she said 126 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: that really resonated with me that Seinfeld's breakthrough was to 127 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: come up with this kind of comedy that was so sticky, 128 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: Because you often even today, even in a very different 129 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: era can feel like you're in a Seinfeld episode. The 130 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: meat of the jokes is just so every day, so 131 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: incredibly banal. So this idea that you feel like you're 132 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: in a Seinfeld episode, she said, has really made it stick. 133 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: Cultural influence doesn't always translate into billionaire level wealth. How 134 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: Seinfeld parleyed his comedy into big money, and whether anyone 135 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: else could follow that path. After the break, we're back. 136 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: I've been speaking with my colleague Annie Massa about the 137 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: enduring appeal of Seinfeld and how it helped its creator 138 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: get on the Bloomberg billionaire's index. What made the series 139 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: so financially lucrative was Jerry actually making a lot of 140 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: money during the show as it was coming out every week. 141 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely not before it was such a hit, but as 142 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: it was gaining momentum throughout the nineties, he was able 143 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: to negotiate better and better pay packages for himself, and 144 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: even at the time, actually studio executives sort of were 145 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: starting to realize this could be the last of an era. 146 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: But the syndication is really where the much more extreme 147 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: wealth comes in, right. 148 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit more about that syndication. 149 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, the idea behind syndication is the whole 150 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: idea of reruns, right, It's what underpins when you're watching 151 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: something that's already aired on another channel for the first time. 152 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: Syndication rights are all about, Okay, who can air this 153 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: show and what these episodes of this show and when 154 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: and who's it going to reach? And Seinfeld reaches a 155 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: maximum audience and therefore the syndication was very lucrative for 156 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: everyone who worked on Seinfeld. 157 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 2: How has streaming changed that profit model for sitcoms? 158 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: Streaming has changed a lot. This is one of the 159 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: reasons that in the writer's strike last year there was 160 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: a lot of backlash against the new model of streaming because, 161 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: for example, global rights are usually negotiated. You know what 162 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: the writers and actors were arguing is they get kind 163 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: of a raw deal that way. The Seinfeld or Friends model, 164 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: where you used to be able to create a huge 165 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: hit and then have the syndication around that kind of 166 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: rewarding you is harder and harder. It's not even really 167 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: possible anymore when you're dealing with streaming platforms that have 168 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: so much control over the terms, that already have the 169 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: global rights negotiated, that have mini writers' rooms instead of 170 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: a full team that's fully compensated working for them. 171 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: Does this mean that Jerry seinfeldt is sort of the 172 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 2: last in a dying breed of TV billionaires. 173 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: I would say he's the last and a dying breed. 174 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean, just because of the way that streaming has 175 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: also fragmented what people watch. A phenomenon like Seinfeld is 176 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: harder to come by these days. Even when you have 177 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: something that's wildly popular, certainly the economic model around it 178 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: on the back end is completely changed. 179 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: And I mean Seinfeld co created the show, he starred 180 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: in the. 181 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: Show's got his last name on It, got his last. 182 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 2: Name on It. I mean, how did he fare compared 183 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: to some of his other co stars or co creators. 184 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, he and Larry David, who co created it, certainly 185 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: made out the best of the group. But I'm sure 186 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: that Jason Alexander and Julia Louis Dreyfuss are doing just 187 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: fine as well. 188 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: That's true, they have there's some other stuff going on 189 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: as well. What else was Jerry Seinfeld doing that was 190 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: building his wealth? 191 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: I mean he's been able to tour quite successfully. So 192 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: with the popularity of Seinfeld, whenever he's gone on tour. 193 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: You know, he's been able to get fans out in 194 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: person and drive those ticket sales. So he's stayed in 195 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: the stand up game big time. And the success of 196 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: Seinfeld has almost certainly helped him become one of the 197 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: most well known stand up comedy acts. So there's that, 198 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: and then he's gone other routes as well. So I 199 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: mentioned that he loves cars. He had this whole series, 200 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: Comedians and Cars getting Coffee, so he created a whole 201 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: new kind of talk show around that. He has a 202 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: feature length film he directed called Unfrosted, and it's all 203 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: about the invention of pop tarts, and that's coming out 204 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: pretty soon this year. So he keeps the new projects rolling. 205 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: What else did you find in your reporting that speaks 206 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: to seinfeld enduring cultural relevance. 207 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the more interesting people I came across 208 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: in reporting this story was a psychiatry professor at Rutgers 209 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:54,359 Speaker 1: University who uses Seinfeld to teach medical students about personality disorders. 210 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: And so they will take Jerry, Elaine Kramer, and George 211 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: their behaviors and almost kind of diagnose the signs of 212 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: personality disorders that they see in their behavior in the episodes. 213 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: There's so much to talk about, with George in particular. 214 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: I'm disturbed, I'm depressed, I'm inadequate. I got it all 215 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 1: so complex that he created an offshoot class or like 216 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: an offshoot just about George. Wow. 217 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: Wow, that says a lot. This is The Big Take 218 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: from Bloomberg News. This episode was produced by Jessica Beck. 219 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: It was edited by Naomi Shaven. It was mixed by 220 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: Alex Ugia. It was fact checked by Naomi and Nicole 221 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: Beemsterbor is our executive producer. Sage Bauman is our head 222 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: of podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. Please follow and review 223 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps 224 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: new listeners find the show. We'll be back next week.