1
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg's sound on.

2
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,880
Speaker 1: We want to get people back to work. We've got

3
00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,799
Speaker 1: to be hating the path leaks. It is up to

4
00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,080
Speaker 1: Congress to kind of set the rules of the road.

5
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,640
Speaker 1: But you have to wonder what Facebook final objective Isn't

6
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,360
Speaker 1: that Bloomberg sound On Politics, policy, and perspective from DC's

7
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,640
Speaker 1: tough name. So they just simply reopen the economy and

8
00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: returned everyone back to work, we would be I think

9
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,199
Speaker 1: in a better situation. Today Washington may squander it's best

10
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,000
Speaker 1: chance to make long overdue investments in our infrastructure. Sloomberg

11
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,320
Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It's not

12
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,000
Speaker 1: often a headline stops Washington in its tracks, but that

13
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,880
Speaker 1: was the case today as we learned of the death

14
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,040
Speaker 1: of Colin Powell, whose career, of course, impacted Washington on

15
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: so many levels, from the military, to politics to diplomacy.

16
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 1: Will discuss his legacy ahead with Michael Chertoff, the former

17
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 1: Homeland Security secretary in the George W. Bush administration. We'll

18
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,399
Speaker 1: also get into it with us on some of the

19
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,080
Speaker 1: biggest threats facing America today, some of which we're beginning

20
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,760
Speaker 1: to metastasize as Colin Powell was confirmed as Secretary of State.

21
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 1: The panel today Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick

22
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,400
Speaker 1: Davis are with us for the hour as lawmakers returned

23
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 1: to town. They're back in the bubble today and tomorrow.

24
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: Senate then House Senator Joe Manchin shows more of its

25
00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,480
Speaker 1: cards on reconciliation, and the White House tries to seize

26
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 1: the moment on infrastructure. We'll talk about it all later

27
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 1: as well if Democratic strategist Jim Kessler, co founder of

28
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 1: Third Wave. So many of us stopped this morning when

29
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,400
Speaker 1: the headline crossed. The terminal phones were buzzing. Colin Powell

30
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 1: had died. The first black Secretary of State was four

31
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:53,640
Speaker 1: complications from COVID nineteen, his family said on Facebook, as

32
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,560
Speaker 1: Powell was also fighting cancer. Listeners of this broadcast do

33
00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 1: not need to be told of a man who help

34
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,160
Speaker 1: to shape multiple administrations and US foreign policy, and his

35
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: legacy is one that will be written about for many years.

36
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 1: That is where we begin today with Michael Chertoff, founder

37
00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 1: of the Church Off Group and the former Secretary of

38
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,640
Speaker 1: Homeland Security, who joined us on the line. Now Secretary,

39
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 1: welcome to Bloomberg Radio, glad to be on. What did

40
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,639
Speaker 1: you think? What did you feel when you heard the

41
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 1: news today? Well, I can't say I was shocked, because

42
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 1: I knew that UH Secretary Powell has was battling a

43
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 1: significant illness. UM. But I was sad because it was

44
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 1: really the passing of an era. He was a giant

45
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 1: in the national security community and also a model of integrity,

46
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 1: and the fact that someone like that is not around

47
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 1: anymore means we're all the poor. So many people urged

48
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 1: him to dig deeper into politics. He of course chose

49
00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,040
Speaker 1: the route of diplomacy. But I wonder what your thoughts

50
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,920
Speaker 1: are in the decisions he made over the course of

51
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,000
Speaker 1: his career, going from the military to politics to diplomacy.

52
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,119
Speaker 1: So many people urged him to run for president. Why

53
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,000
Speaker 1: did he choose not to? Well, I don't know him

54
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 1: well enough to know why he chose not to. I mean,

55
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was a decision taken jointly with his family, UM,

56
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,560
Speaker 1: and I completely understand that he found public service important

57
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 1: and appealing, but didn't want to get into the electoral process,

58
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,160
Speaker 1: which requires a certain kind of temperament. But certainly in

59
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 1: terms of his contribution both in in the military, as

60
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 1: National security advisor and a Secretary of State. He achieved

61
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,760
Speaker 1: as much as you could possibly imagine in terms of

62
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 1: serving the country. Did he deserve the criticism he received

63
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 1: for arguing that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? You know,

64
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 1: I think he had at some point later acknowledged that

65
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 1: he regretted having allied upon what turned out to be

66
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 1: falsey intelligence did in making that that public argument. Um,

67
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 1: And I also think we're in the comments you made,

68
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: which I still quote from time to time, is if

69
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 1: you broke it, you bought it, meaning that you've got

70
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 1: to understand the consequences of your actions in the long

71
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,280
Speaker 1: term as well as in the short term, Secretary turt Off.

72
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 1: Earlier today, I listened to then General Powell's remarks during

73
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 1: his Senate confirmation hearing to be Secretary of State. This

74
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 1: is January two thousand one. He talked about the threats

75
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,840
Speaker 1: facing America at that time, including China, and the best

76
00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 1: way that we should manage them, and I was fascinated

77
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 1: to hear his take on this on China from twenty

78
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,760
Speaker 1: years ago. I'd love to play his quick remarks for

79
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,479
Speaker 1: you and get your reaction. Here's what he said, China

80
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,560
Speaker 1: is a competitor, a potential regional rival, but also a

81
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: trading partner willing to cooperate in areas where our strategic

82
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,239
Speaker 1: interest overlap. China is all of these things. But China

83
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,719
Speaker 1: is not an enemy, and our challenge is to keep

84
00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: it that way by and meshing them in the rule

85
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,800
Speaker 1: of law, by exposing them to the powerful forces of

86
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,000
Speaker 1: a free enterprise system and democracy, so they can see

87
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,160
Speaker 1: that this is the proper direction in which to move.

88
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 1: When you fast forward twenty years to the Biden administration

89
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,880
Speaker 1: and we're hearing almost the same terms, this is competition,

90
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: not conflict. I wonder how you think Colin Powell then

91
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 1: helped to frame our existing relationship now with China. Well.

92
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,159
Speaker 1: I think he recognized that we have to have a

93
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 1: balanced relationship with China. We have to have no illusions

94
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,479
Speaker 1: about those areas in which they are competitors and rivals.

95
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,360
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that we can't also have elements,

96
00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 1: even as we had with the Server Union, where there's

97
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,719
Speaker 1: a mutual interesting cooperating. I will say the part of

98
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 1: Secretary Policy Works that now seems perhaps a little overly

99
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 1: optimistic was his view that engagement with the free enterprise

100
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 1: system will lead China to become more and more deeply

101
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 1: embedded with Western values. Yes, although there was a period

102
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 1: of time when that looked like it was happening under

103
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,719
Speaker 1: Danja ping Uh and maybe Hoojintao president, she has made

104
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 1: it quite clear that he's reversing direction, and he certainly

105
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 1: is not fulfilling the optimistic hopes that were articulated by

106
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,239
Speaker 1: Colin Powell twenty years ago. You were the nation's second

107
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 1: Secretary of Homeland Security. I wonder if I could ask

108
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 1: you what you consider some of the threats against America

109
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,920
Speaker 1: to be. Now you're talking today at the Milk and

110
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,280
Speaker 1: Institute Global Conference about building trust and age of distrust.

111
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 1: That's that's quite a title. Is China going to be

112
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: a threat in the new year and going forward? And

113
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,719
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you about a couple of others,

114
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: But how about China? Are we dealing with the kin

115
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: of the right way? I think we've firmed up our

116
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 1: our approach to China, which I think is important and

117
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,720
Speaker 1: we recognize as the Chinese, for example, have not necessarily

118
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,320
Speaker 1: treated economic issues and military issues is being separate. They

119
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,040
Speaker 1: use their economic power to leverage their national security position,

120
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,680
Speaker 1: and I think we're now starting to recognize we need

121
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,960
Speaker 1: to respond to kind. I think the Chinese are not

122
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 1: a imminent military threat to us, but there is a

123
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 1: concern that between what they do in cyberspace and what

124
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: they are threatening with respect to Taiwan, that we could

125
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 1: find ourselves embroiled in a more contentious arrangement with them. Well,

126
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: waking up the news of this hypersonic missile is a

127
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 1: whole other matter as well. How concerned are you that

128
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 1: we did not know about it in August? And are

129
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 1: we going to see a world in which China has

130
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 1: a weapon that we don't have? Well, I mean I

131
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,360
Speaker 1: think again, Um, I don't know what the intelligence community knew,

132
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,920
Speaker 1: but the Chinese are clearly and publicly making you claim

133
00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 1: that they intend to have compete as in areas of

134
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: technology that have tremendous military and intelligence significance. That includes

135
00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,680
Speaker 1: not only hypersonics, but artificial intelligence and other kinds of

136
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 1: tools like quantum mechanics. So we need to make sure

137
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:14,679
Speaker 1: again we are using our considerable technological innovation to begin

138
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,640
Speaker 1: to make sure we are competitive and exceeding in in

139
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: these areas, or we will find ourselves in a disadvantage.

140
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: The White House, through its Press secretary Jansaki, says, the

141
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: US is concerned does this administration have the right policies

142
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 1: to deal with China. I think that that they are

143
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,760
Speaker 1: moving to a what I think is a much better

144
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 1: strategy than the prior administration. The prior administration had a

145
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 1: let's get tough strategy, which was not bad in certain respects,

146
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,920
Speaker 1: but it's extended to things that had nothing to do

147
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 1: with national security, and it was more of a performance

148
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 1: and it was a real policy. I think the current

149
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 1: administration realizes we will have to engage in certain areas

150
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: like climate change and even pandemic health, but in other

151
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,560
Speaker 1: areas like human rights. We're not going to simply give

152
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 1: way to the Chinese, and we are certainly not going

153
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,200
Speaker 1: to let them claim dominance over the South China see,

154
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 1: which I think we most recently made clear through our

155
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,800
Speaker 1: submarine deal with Australia. You spent many years at Homeland

156
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 1: trying to fend off the threat of terrorism. I wonder

157
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,440
Speaker 1: if you are worried that the US is in greater

158
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,440
Speaker 1: danger following the withdrawal from Afghanistan, or if we should

159
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,400
Speaker 1: be looking in other parts of the world. I think

160
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,199
Speaker 1: I think we've got a number of challenges from the

161
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 1: in the terrorist area. I do think they would raw

162
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,560
Speaker 1: from Afghanistan may embolden some jihadi groups to believe that

163
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,360
Speaker 1: they can again relaunch attacks. Although uh, you know, we've

164
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,559
Speaker 1: been very successful in keeping international terrorists out of the US.

165
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,559
Speaker 1: What we've seen in terms of mess jihadi terrorism in

166
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,840
Speaker 1: the US has been inspired at relatively small scale. I'm

167
00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,000
Speaker 1: more concerned about domestic violent extremism, particularly right wing extremists,

168
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,960
Speaker 1: and combinating what we saw in January six I don't

169
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:10,439
Speaker 1: think that the grievances there and the ideologies have have dissipated,

170
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 1: and we have a former president who is encouraging and

171
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 1: inciting continuation of this nonsensical lie that somehow the election

172
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 1: was stolen, and that's I think where we're going to

173
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 1: see potential terrorist threats in the next near term. Interesting,

174
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,439
Speaker 1: you didn't point to our southern border as some do

175
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,560
Speaker 1: in in framing that answer. Are you worried about another

176
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: attack on Washington or how do you even fend off

177
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,480
Speaker 1: such a decentralized threat. Well, I think what's going to

178
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,840
Speaker 1: have to happen is within the boundaries of the law,

179
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,680
Speaker 1: we're going to have to be uh putting out efforts

180
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,719
Speaker 1: to collect information about potential attacks. What we've seen is

181
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,320
Speaker 1: a lot of these extremists boasts about what they're gonna do.

182
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: They don't really hide it, but we need to be

183
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 1: alert to that. We need to work with state and

184
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 1: local governments and communities to get early warning about people

185
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,200
Speaker 1: who may look like they're moving in the direction of

186
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 1: doing something violent, or terrorists terroristic based on an ideology.

187
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,599
Speaker 1: Many thanks to Michael church Off, the founder of the

188
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 1: church Off Group, former Secretary of Homeland Security, joining us

189
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,679
Speaker 1: on the Monday edition here of Sound On helps to

190
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: set the table for the panel coming up. As we

191
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 1: assemble the panel to talk about Powell and some of

192
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,319
Speaker 1: the threats we just discussed with Michael church Off recalling

193
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 1: Secretary Powell addressing the U N Security Council on the

194
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 1: threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It was

195
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,680
Speaker 1: two thousand three when Colin Powell held up the vial

196
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 1: and said this, when Iraq finally admitted having these weapons,

197
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:55,000
Speaker 1: the quantities were vast less than a teaspoon of dry anthrix.

198
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 1: A little bit about this amount. This is just about

199
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 1: the amount of a teaspoon, less than a teaspoonful of

200
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,080
Speaker 1: dry anthrax in an envelope shut down the United States

201
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 1: Senate in the fall of two thousand and one. This

202
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,840
Speaker 1: forced several hundred people to undergo emergency medical treatment and

203
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 1: killed two postal workers just from an amount. Just about

204
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,000
Speaker 1: this quantity moment that hung over him for many years,

205
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,719
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about it ahead with Bloomberg Politics contributors

206
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,520
Speaker 1: Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis. Classic Panel on a Monday,

207
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,959
Speaker 1: will check traffic and the markets on the way. I'm

208
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:44,640
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew and this is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg.

209
00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 1: You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Colin

210
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,720
Speaker 1: Powell was a trailblazer, the nation's first black Chairman of

211
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 1: the Joint Chiefs, White House, National Security Advisor, and Secretary

212
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 1: of State, But like any long career in public service,

213
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 1: his was complicated and Secretary Powell was heavily criticized for

214
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: helping to make the case against Iraq when it came

215
00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,200
Speaker 1: to weapons of mass destruction. As you just heard the

216
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,920
Speaker 1: sound from that now very well known meeting before the

217
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 1: U n Security Council just now before the breaking Powell

218
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 1: even suggested regret to that end later in life. And

219
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 1: that's where we start with the panel here. Bloomberg Politics

220
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,480
Speaker 1: contributors Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis are with us for

221
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,920
Speaker 1: the hour. What are your thoughts on that, Genie, when

222
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 1: you measure a man by the totality of his career,

223
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,679
Speaker 1: or a woman for that matter, it's it's it's not

224
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 1: that we can ignore these more controversial moments, That's right.

225
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,400
Speaker 1: And there were some controversial moments the one you just

226
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, referenced Um. There were others, including his work

227
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 1: in the Malay massacre and also his work as a

228
00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,079
Speaker 1: national security advisor to Ronald Reagan. But but that said,

229
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: he was also a man who when he thought that

230
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,360
Speaker 1: he had done something wrong, he took responsibility for it.

231
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean, let's not forget he resigned in two thousand

232
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 1: and four when the evidence that the weapons of mass

233
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,200
Speaker 1: destruction statement was not true came to fruition, and he

234
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,640
Speaker 1: acknowledged that he was wrong about that. So he was

235
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 1: somebody who, when he did wrong, acknowledge that. He was

236
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 1: also you know, an incredibly humble person. I mean, you

237
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 1: listen back to some of his statements over time. This

238
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 1: was somebody who repeatedly said, I'm from the Bronx. I

239
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 1: didn't go to West Point. I went to the City

240
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 1: University of New York. These were things that he said

241
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 1: over and over again to encourage other not just African American,

242
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 1: but other young people in the United States too, that

243
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 1: they too could serve in public life and they could

244
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 1: rise to the level that he did. Rick Davis, you

245
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 1: encountered Colin Powell as a general and later as a

246
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 1: secretary on a lot of occasions. I'm sure you remember

247
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 1: his endorsement of Barack Obamba in October of two thousand

248
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 1: and eight. What were what were your thoughts this morning?

249
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 1: You know, I hate to see a person like uh

250
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 1: Colin pal go. He was such a important figure for

251
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 1: most of the last portion of the twenty century. I mean, uh,

252
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 1: Secretary church Off mentioned it's a it's a passing of

253
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 1: an era, and I think that's correct. I mean, you know,

254
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 1: the era that Colin pal grew up in in both

255
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 1: the h in both the you know, military and all

256
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 1: the accomplishments and the things, as Jeannie said that he

257
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 1: saw and participated in, but also in public life as

258
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: a civilian. And I also remember him looking at running

259
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 1: for president. At a time when I was helping Bob Dylan,

260
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, I hope he doesn't run

261
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 1: for president. That'll screw us up. Because he was, he

262
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,040
Speaker 1: was an incredibly popular figure. Why do you think he

263
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 1: chose not to run? I just asked Michael Chutov And

264
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,800
Speaker 1: he didn't. He didn't dare to answer. But what's your

265
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 1: thought on that, Rick, What do you have one? You know,

266
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,120
Speaker 1: it's hard to say. I mean, you know, nobody he

267
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,320
Speaker 1: really knows what it's like in a presidential campaign until

268
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 1: they get punched in the face, and you know that's

269
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,440
Speaker 1: that's that's something that he spared himself. And I think

270
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 1: it's probably wise. I mean, he was not a public man.

271
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,160
Speaker 1: I mean he he uh led a pretty humble life,

272
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 1: as Genie said, and uh and and frankly, I think

273
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 1: probably all m I had something to do with that.

274
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,480
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it was one of those things

275
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,320
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, you're gonna make me go through

276
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: this again. And uh And I think that uh, I

277
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 1: think that he chose a private life instead of uh,

278
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,160
Speaker 1: instead of joining the circus. So um, I think and

279
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 1: I think that was probably the right decision for him.

280
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: I think that UH, after the time that he had

281
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 1: in the Bush administration too then um joined the Obama

282
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 1: campaign was a turning point for him. You know, he

283
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 1: wanted to shed you know, the UH Bush administration and

284
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 1: some of the some of the controversy that he had there,

285
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: and I think that was probably a smart decision for

286
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 1: him him in that regard. We we we would have

287
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,720
Speaker 1: appreciated his support for John McCain, who he liked and

288
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 1: and saw a common cause with, but we totally understood

289
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 1: what he was trying to accomplish in that regard. It

290
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 1: was a moment for sure. I took through some of

291
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 1: the threats facing America with Michael church Off, including China,

292
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 1: and it was something that Colin Powell was talking about

293
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 1: back in two thousand one. Fast forward to today and

294
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,640
Speaker 1: we have this news of the hypersonic missile UH that

295
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,640
Speaker 1: apparently was launched orbited the Earth back in August. We're

296
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: just now learning about it. The Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin,

297
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 1: was asked about that today. Here's what he said. We

298
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 1: watched closely China's development of the armament and advanced capabilities

299
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 1: UH and systems that will only increase tensions in the region,

300
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,440
Speaker 1: so we're watching. I get that part, Jeannie. When do

301
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,719
Speaker 1: we need to do something about it? I think yesterday,

302
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,240
Speaker 1: if not back when. As you rightly mentioned, and it's

303
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,679
Speaker 1: fascinating to hear Colin Powell was talking about this twenty

304
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,800
Speaker 1: years ago, two decades ago. Um, you know, I was

305
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 1: fascinated that that Secretary church Off said to you about,

306
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: amongst other things, China's lead on quantum technology. This is

307
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 1: not something we hear a lot about in the United States.

308
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 1: It's not something we talk a lot about, but there

309
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 1: are many many analysts who say, once they get the lead,

310
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 1: and many people believe they have it already, we are

311
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 1: going to have to be able to defend ourselves against

312
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 1: that by two is the latest number I saw. And

313
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 1: we are not positioned to do that yet, and the

314
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 1: impact on our ability to secure ourselves will be you know, sorely, um,

315
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 1: sorely and gravely uh open to attack from China once

316
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,679
Speaker 1: they get to that point. Rick, I don't know if

317
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 1: you have something in thirty seconds or lest but is

318
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: there any chance we already have this rocket ourselves? I

319
00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 1: hope so? Was that thirty seconds? I think, well, you're

320
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,479
Speaker 1: gone already, Rick Davis stay there. He is with us

321
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 1: for the hour. Rick and Genie the classic Bloomberg politics

322
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 1: panel for us on sound On. Joe Matchin shows more

323
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: of his cards. We'll talk about it with Jim Kessler next.

324
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg

325
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 1: to New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one

326
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to

327
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 1: the country Sirius XM Channel one nine and around the

328
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 1: globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com.

329
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,640
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg sound On with Joe Matt Hugh Joe

330
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 1: Matchin making headlines again. It is Monday, after all, as

331
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: I read on the terminal mansions, opposition may doom, clean

332
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: power Plan, Biden backs, and another matching cast doubt on

333
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: October thirty one, deadline to act on Biden's agenda. All

334
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 1: this as President by and calls more meetings for tomorrow

335
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 1: with moderates and progressives from Capitol Hill. We'll talk about

336
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: the way forward next with Jim Kessler, co founder of

337
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: Third Way, who has always and thank you for joining

338
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: us on Bloomberg sound On. Should be an interesting day tomorrow,

339
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: so we watch everyone come back into town. For those

340
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 1: of us who live here inside the bubble, it's always

341
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: fun too to see the big return busy day at

342
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: National Airport. As lawmakers in the Senate come back today tomorrow,

343
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: they come back in the House, and you know who's

344
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,360
Speaker 1: waiting for them is President Biden. As we heard earlier

345
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 1: from White House Press Secretary Jensaki, he's calling members of

346
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 1: the House together tomorrow. Here's what she said. He spoke,

347
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 1: as I think some of you reported this morning, with

348
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: Representative Jaia Paul at the White House, and we'll have

349
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 1: a number of additional conversations by phone with members of

350
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 1: both chambers uh and who also run the gamut in

351
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: terms of their views as we proceed through the course

352
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: of the afternoon tomorrow, he will host two different meetings

353
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: with House members here at the White House, one with

354
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: moderates and one with progressive members. Were encouraged at the

355
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: excellent by the accelerated pace of talks, referring to the

356
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 1: urgency of the moment, even though we have been talking

357
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: about this for months. As Eyad on the terminal Senator

358
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: Mansion is told the White House and Congressional leaders, but

359
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 1: he will not support including a clean power provision in

360
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: the Democrats spending package. This is reconciliation, putting at risk

361
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 1: a central element of the legislation designed to fight climate change.

362
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: This would be a deal breaker for the aforementioned Primilla

363
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: Jaya Paul, who met this morning with President Biden at

364
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: the White House. And so here we are on another Monday,

365
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: and it does appear that Senator Joe Mansion is still

366
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:52,199
Speaker 1: holding the keys joining us to talk about it. Jim Kessler,

367
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: co founder of Third Way, a Democratic strategist and a

368
00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: long time creature on Capitol Hill, former legislative policy director

369
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: for Senator Chuck Schumer who's having the time of his

370
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: life right now. Jim, I mean creature in the best way,

371
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: of course, But I wonder what your thoughts are on

372
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: everything that we put together here. If Joe Biden is

373
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: meeting with members of the House tomorrow I met with

374
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 1: for Milla Jia Paul today, is he simply trying to

375
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: prepare them for what is acceptable in the Senate even

376
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: though they know this already. Well. Look, I expect that

377
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: ultimately there's going to be a reconciliation bill that gets

378
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: to Joe Biden's desk. It's going to be well short

379
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: of that three point five trillion number that you know

380
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: is that was in the budget resolution. And you know

381
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 1: you talked earlier about Joe Manson saying, well, he didn't

382
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: say things could get done by October thirty fee. There

383
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: isn't really a hard and fast deadline to get this done.

384
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: October thirty one is when the surface Transportation Authorization ends,

385
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: but you can expend that temporarily, so you know, you

386
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 1: can slow walk this thing here a negotiator, my view

387
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: is the time for slow walking is we're close to

388
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: the end of that. This is where the negotiations are intensifying.

389
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: I think Biden is doing the right thing by meeting

390
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: with the different factions of the party. There is distrust

391
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: between those factions. That distrust is earned, but I think

392
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: that distrust can turn into trust and we can get

393
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: to the finish line. Why is this the time now, though,

394
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: knowing that the President has already met with those same groups,

395
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 1: has already met with the Mansions and Cinemas. In the Senate,

396
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 1: we even we even went for a vote. There were

397
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: two nights in a row. Speaker Pelosi said they were

398
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: planning to make a vote on the bipartisan infrastructure deal.

399
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: That's still Jim hasn't happened, right, So let's be realistic here.

400
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: The fate of the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the reconciliation package,

401
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 1: those fates are tied together. Doesn't mean they have to

402
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: be voted on the same day. But there is enough

403
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: distrust that progressives need to hear some certainty that a

404
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: reconciliation bill will get to the President's desk, that Joe

405
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: Manson and Kirsten Cinema and other some other centrist Democrats,

406
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: particularly in the House, are going to support it before

407
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: they're willing to get on the bus with the infrastructure bill.

408
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: So these next few days are to determine whether that

409
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: infrastructure bill can move before October thirty one, or you know,

410
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: whether we're going to have to wait because there's still

411
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: distrust on reconciliation. Reconciliation will not be done by October.

412
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: That is a certainty. Will it be done by the

413
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: end of the year. It should be the The reason

414
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 1: why I can't be done by October one, you have

415
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 1: to reach an agreement, and then you have to put

416
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: a lot of that agreement into legislative language, and then

417
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: all the members need to look at it, and that

418
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: just takes more than ten or fourteen days, never mind

419
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: scoring and all the rest of it. Jim, But as

420
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: someone who works for Senator Chuck Schumer, do you think

421
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: the Senator of the majority leader is getting a little

422
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 1: tired of Nancy Pelosi throwing down these deadlines one after

423
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: the other. I mean, we didn't have to set deadlines

424
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: on anything until now. This could be this could just

425
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: be a going concern and ongoing debate. But every time

426
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: you throw down the deadline, it makes it and you

427
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: don't you don't get something done, it looks like a failure. Well,

428
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: the House has its own pressures, and the Senate has

429
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: its own unique pressures, and then Biden's got his own

430
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: unique pressures. There the three of these leaders, Pelosi, Biden,

431
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: and Schumer, they know each other extraordinarily well. Between them,

432
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: they have about nine years of Washington experience, and they

433
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: know how to land these planes. There are members, you

434
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: know at this point, Joe Mansion and Kerston Cinema are

435
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: not ready to sign on. It seems like there's been

436
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: some movement in the right direction from both Mansion and Cinema,

437
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure how close that is. And you know,

438
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: thus far Senator Mansion and Cinema they've been willing to wait.

439
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: They're saying, we're in no hurry. I think everybody else's

440
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: more and hurry. But um, you know, so some of

441
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: the differences is not just will the plains land, but

442
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: when are they going to land? When you hear Joe Mansion,

443
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: they'll say he's not going to support the climate portion

444
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: of reconciliation that would that would help to to clean

445
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: up the power grid. I mean, that's a non starter

446
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: for the progressives who have already been to the White

447
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: House for a meeting. They've already they've already said their

448
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: peace on this. So I guess, Jim, why would any

449
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: of this change? Now? No one should be surprised at

450
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: what Joe Mansion's position is on that specific clean energy provision.

451
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: There are other ways as a substitute to have clean

452
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: energy provisions that would be a lot friendlier to you

453
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: know them the energy interests, which include coal in West

454
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: Virginia in O Mansion state. So we're going to have

455
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: to look at those things. And then there's other climate

456
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: provisions in reconclations with Mansion is perfectly happy. I hope

457
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: they come out of these meetings that we learn a

458
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: little more. Jim Cussler, we thank you, will bring the

459
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: panel in on this next. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

460
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Sound on with Joe Matthew on

461
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. So some big meetings tomorrow with President by

462
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: moderates and progressives from the House each get their own session.

463
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: Even as we learned some of the climate provisions and

464
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: the Democrats reconciliation plan will not likely be able to

465
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: pass the Senate thanks to Joe Mansion at least, but

466
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: the White House says there is new urgency under these

467
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: negotiations as we were just discussing with Jim Kessler, something

468
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: Press Secretary Jensaki was asked about several times in today's briefing.

469
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: The President proposed these plans back in the spring. We

470
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: have been uh. He has participated in dozens and dozens

471
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: of calls of meetings, of engagements with members to hear

472
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: their viewpoints, to understand where they're coming from, to reach consensus. UH.

473
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: And we are at a point where we we have

474
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: a feel and urgency to move things forward. And the

475
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: the pickup of meetings is a reflection of that pick

476
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: up of meetings. Knowing today President Biden met with Promilla

477
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: Jayah Paul, the Member of the House and chair of

478
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: the House Progressive Caucus. Interesting though, to hear that term

479
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: urgency repeatedly and hearing what sounded like frustration or at

480
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: least a losing a sound of losing patients maybe in

481
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: Jen Psaki's voice. There, let's get into it with the panel.

482
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis back with

483
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 1: us for the rest of the hour. Rick, what happens

484
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: in these meetings tomorrow? And could this be a case

485
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: of the boy who cried wolf? You know, I gotta

486
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: believe that they're starting to come to grips with you know,

487
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: a number that they think they can get buy in,

488
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 1: both in the Senate with the Moderates and with the

489
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: with the progressives in the House. And so I hope

490
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: they're taking the time to use to knit together now

491
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: policies and timetables on how to spend the money that

492
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: they think can become a reconciliation bill. If they're not

493
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: at that stage at this point, I would be surprised

494
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: if if they could get any deadline is currently UH

495
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: being talked about, whether it's the end of October for

496
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: the UH, for the UH Infrastructure bill, or or really

497
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: even trying to get to the end of the year,

498
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: because these positions are from what I can tell, only

499
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: getting hardened and UH. And so if if, if they're

500
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: talking policies and timetables, that would be an ideal outcome

501
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: for them, you know, tomorrow, if they're still talking about

502
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: Joe Manchin and being upset and and he keeps poking

503
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: the tiger. He's got his child tax credit he wants

504
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: to rework. I mean, he's in everybody's nickers right now,

505
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: and it's almost as if he's trying to tube the

506
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: whole thing. I mean, at some point someone has to

507
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: look at that and say, what is he really trying

508
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: to accomplish here? You do wonder here? Jeannie as Senator

509
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: Mansion of course from the coal state West Virginia, is

510
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: not in favor of the Clean Electricity Performance program that's

511
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty billion dollars according to the terminal,

512
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: and to Rick's point, the child tax credit, childcare this

513
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: is supposed to be a huge portion of UH. This

514
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: this mission that that Progressive Democrats were on in crafting

515
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: the reconciliation plan. He says, cap it at a certain

516
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: income level for households, and there's going to have to be,

517
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, some testing involved as well. You're gonna have

518
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: to be looking for work or employed. These are deal

519
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: breakers for a lot of the progressives that Joe Biden

520
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: will be meeting with tomorrow, Jennie, they are. And I'm

521
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: still trying to wrap my head around bricks common about Nickers.

522
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: So I'm going to leave that aside to my friend

523
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: Rick Davis. Um. You know, I think you know, the

524
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: epitome of this battle is what happened over the weekend

525
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: as Bernie Sanders published this editorial in Mansion's hometown doucepaper,

526
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: and Mansion really really hit him back, and he said,

527
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: this isn't the first time and out of stater Or

528
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: has tried to tell West Virginians what's best for them.

529
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: So there is real tension here just between those two.

530
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: And then as you and Rick Weredge is talking about,

531
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: it expands and this is not just about a top

532
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: line number. And that's what I think is really become

533
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: clear in the last you know, few weeks, few days

534
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: It's not just about can they get down to where

535
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: Joe Mansion and Kristen Cinema are comfortable with at one

536
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: point five or two trillion. This is also about the

537
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: specifics of these policies, and the clean Energy is just

538
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: the start of those, and we see the White House

539
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: responding to that as they have to. But the question

540
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: now is is that response going to be palatable to

541
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: the progressives. So the White House is once again walking

542
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: this this tight rope between the progressives and the moderates,

543
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: and they're going to be meeting, as you said, tomorrow

544
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: to try to iron this out. I disagree just slightly

545
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: with our friend Jim Kessler. You know, he's right, these

546
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: are self imposed deadlines at the end of October. But

547
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: Democrats are very, very fearful that if they don't get

548
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: something out and they lose the Virginia governor's race, which

549
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: they could, that their legislative agenda may be shot as

550
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: a result of that. So you've got October thirty one,

551
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: you've got the Virginia governor's race, You've got December three.

552
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: There's just a number of deadlines approaching, and I think

553
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: that's the frustration you hear in Jen Psaki and other

554
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: people in the White House to get this thing moving.

555
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: They're not real announced deadlines here, like they're kind of

556
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: gray deadlines. But but but to Jeannie's point, you've got

557
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: the Virginia governor's race. There seems to be an eagerness

558
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: to get something done so it doesn't become a liability

559
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: in Virginia, whether or not that's realistic. But also this

560
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: idea of of Joe mansion uh shooting down the Clean

561
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: Electricity Performance Program on the eve practically of Joe Biden's

562
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: trip to to the COP conference in Scotland. He's not

563
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: making life easy for the commander in chief here, is

564
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: he He's not making life easy for the commander in chief?

565
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: And in this COP twenty six is an important el

566
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: stone in global climate management. But it's what's interesting about

567
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: all this is this was all embedded in the memo

568
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: that he and Schumer signed in July. There's nothing new here.

569
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: He complained about the clean energy proportions of the bill,

570
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: he complained about the child tax credit. I mean, he's

571
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: just making good on everything. He pointed out with these

572
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: folks back in July, kept secret from the progressives in

573
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: the House who are now really upset internally with their

574
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: leadership because none of this was addressed when they had

575
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: time maybe to work it out. What's fascinating to me

576
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: is the Republicans could not get into the news today

577
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: if their lives dependent upon it. I mean, this is

578
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: all Democrat on Democrat crime, and and all the Republicans

579
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: have to do is take a back seat and watch

580
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: it happen. Should we assume, then, that genie, that President

581
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: Biden is going to take a different posture in these meetings.

582
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: He can't. You can't just have the same meetings you

583
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: had two weeks ago when this led to nothing. Remember

584
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 1: that was the same week that he was heading up

585
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: to the hill and we were promised votes and none

586
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: of it happened. Is this okay, guys, It's time now

587
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: get it together. What's the deadline? What do you need?

588
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: We're not leaving this room or this virtual room until

589
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: we have this hammered down. I think. So. Look at

590
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: we are just thirteen days away from this October thirty

591
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: one deadline. We have the December third deadline, you have

592
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: the debt limit, and you've got the Virginia governor's race.

593
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: All of these deadlines, I think most people agree that

594
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: by the end of the year, this thing has to happen.

595
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: So the President, I think, is going to have to

596
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: show some real leadership here. He is perfectly placed to

597
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: do that. He has lived in the Senate for many,

598
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: many decades. He knows how this works. But he's got

599
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: to choose, and he's got to lead Democrats along a

600
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: pathway where they can come to some agreement. But it's

601
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: not easy because you can't lose anybody in the Senate

602
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: and you only have what three or four that you

603
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: could lose in the House. So what he chooses to

604
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: do whether to go smaller, to you know, to you know,

605
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: adjust in terms of climate, child tax credit. You know,

606
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: we haven't even talked about the High Amendment. That's one

607
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: that sticks in my mind that Mansion raised. I don't

608
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: know how they get over that. So all of those things,

609
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: the President is the only person who is really in

610
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: a position to lead them together. And I think the

611
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: real message is going to have to be if we

612
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: don't get something, we will all sink. And I think

613
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: that is a realistic view that he's got to share

614
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: with them, and they've got to get their heads around

615
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: getting less than what they wanted in all cases, Rick,

616
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 1: if I heard you write, you're of the mind that

617
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: that they may be further down the road here than

618
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: in fact, the president may be on the verge of something,

619
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: or he wouldn't be calling these meetings. You can correct

620
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: me there. But if if that's the case, what role

621
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: does he play tomorrow and what does he need to

622
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: say to the rank and file. Oh, I think he's

623
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: been very actively engaged all weekend. I mean, I think

624
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: they've been talking to the various organizations that are impacted

625
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: outside of politics, you know, the environmental organizations who then

626
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: can go back to their constituencies in Congress and say, hey,

627
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, we've got other things in the in the UH,

628
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: in the in the infrastructure bill that are good. If

629
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: we're gonna lose this clean energy mandate, then there are

630
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: other things within the Reconciliation Bill that we support. And

631
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 1: I think it's everybody basically trying to create this echo

632
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: chamber within the Democratic Caucus, especially in the House of Representatives,

633
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: that gives them comfort that they can still get a

634
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: win here uh and and and go out with a

635
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: with a with a with their heads held high. And

636
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: I think that is a important stage that we're in

637
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: right now, is how do they make this look like

638
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: they're not in the process of self self immolation right

639
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: where they are actually going to get something out of

640
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: this that they can all show up at the White House,

641
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: get signed and declare victory. Well, is that the way

642
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: progressives are feeling about this genie? Are they as dug

643
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: in as they were a couple of weeks ago? Ask

644
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: you that, you know, at the same time, when's the

645
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: corn Husker kickback? When are the deals that that people

646
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: are gonna hate Washington for that make this this piece

647
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: of legislation happen? You know, and the corn Husker kickback

648
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite examples of this. But you know,

649
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: you can't have that until you actually see the legislation.

650
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things we forget about that is,

651
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking, you know, sort of this overarching

652
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: big number, what sort of big policies, maybe in or not,

653
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: but it's going to you know, for a corn Husker kickback,

654
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to have, you know, reporters like yourself.

655
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: You're going to have to have people looking to see

656
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: what is this tech say, we aren't even close to

657
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: that at this point, And that I think tells you

658
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: why somebody like Jim or other people are saying there's

659
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: no way they make this by Halloween. So corn Husker kickbacks,

660
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: those are going to be way down the road. And

661
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: that's another thing Democrats have to watch for, because if

662
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: people don't think there are deals being had here, that's

663
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: the only way they're going to get this thing done.

664
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to make those deals, and those deals

665
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: are going to be ripe for criticism from publicans and

666
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: others as they go into the election year. What does

667
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: Joe Manchin want? Rick? Does it? I mean as simple

668
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: as that, What could they give him? Read the memo?

669
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: That's what he wants. He wants, you know, one point

670
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: five trillion, and he wants those policies and into quantitative easing.

671
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: I don't think we can do that though, Rick. Yeah, well,

672
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: the pals up for reappointment. Anything's possible. Anything is possible,

673
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: says a true creature of Washington. That's Rick Davis, Jeanie

674
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: Schanzano as well. The panel thinks, to both of you,

675
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew, this is Bloomberg