WEBVTT - #585 Jason Flom with Keith LaMar 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:08.200 Hey, it's Connor Hall, senior producer for Wrongful Conviction with 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:11.400 another case update and more behind the scenes insights. And 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.720 today we're talking about a case that for me was 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.160 about as difficult to cover as only a few others, 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:24.439 namely Brendan Dacy, Rodney Reid, Leonard Peltier. It took me 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.040 about six weeks to produce the final episodes in each 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:31.120 of those cases. And also for this man here, Keith Lamar. 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.360 I've been speaking with his advocate Amy Gordeev since about 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.440 twenty twenty one, and at that point the task was 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:44.200 just too damn big. We're talking about five murders, one 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.600 of which happened separately from the other four, and all 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.839 of the alleged witnesses gave their statements while in prison. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.680 I mean some are still in there. Some probably never 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.320 spoke to a defense attorney, let alone a journalist, given 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.040 their own culpability. So we were gonna need re enforcements. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.880 And over time the team at Levigne, Bell, Doc and 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.920 Hoffman got involved and did a lot of the heavy lifting, 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:12.160 and they were able to build on Keith's previous attorneys work, 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.160 piecing together all the ways in which each of the 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.000 witnesses in this case had changed their stories along the 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.920 way and then benefited from doing so. And as I 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:25.240 understand it, a number of other folks, some of whom 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.440 I've become aware of in the past couple of years, 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.080 have come forward about the part they played in this case. 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.240 So we're looking forward to that information being presented to 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.759 the court. As Keith is quickly running out of time. 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.720 His execution date is set for January thirteenth, twenty twenty seven, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:47.240 and Governor DeWine once again has a chance to step 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.320 in and grant some sort of relief. Perhaps those running 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.640 to replace him in November twenty twenty six will take 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.720 up this issue and state their intentions for Keith and 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.360 the death penalty in jen in Ohio. I mean, it's 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.200 not news to any of us here that the criminal 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:10.000 legal system in Ohio is deeply troubled. Now, after you 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.200 hear Keith's story, maybe you'll agree that there are enough 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.560 problems in Ohio and it's hard to trust any conviction, 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.520 especially those on death row, because the stakes are so high. 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:23.000 A lot of corners get cut. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:24.200 Now. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.480 Originally this was a two parter, but I edited it 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.080 down to just one with some voiceover. I get to 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.840 the heart of the matter a lot quicker while preserving 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.240 the details, and some of those details will have you 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.639 wondering how some folks sleep at night. 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.360 On Easter Sunday nineteen ninety three and May said, Lucasville 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.240 Prison in Ohio, it took control of an entire cell block. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.880 The crisis that became known as the Lucasville Prison Riot 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.240 lasted eleven days and claimed ten lives, including one of 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.200 the prison guards. When the cell block was finally under 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:04.960 an investigation ensued aimed at bringing the riot leadership to justice. 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.840 After several rounds of interviews, five names emerged, including a 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.560 man who lived on that cell block named Keith Lamar. 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.600 According to the state, Keith had allegedly commanded a team 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.000 of men who murdered four supposed snitches before heading out 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.320 to the prison yard, where the authorities ushered all the 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.840 inmates into another block that was still under state control. Then, 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.600 while confined in a cell with nine other men, he 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.799 allegedly ordered one more death. The other inmates weren't telling 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.360 this particular story in their initial interviews, but by the 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.880 time of Keith's Capitol trial, they were all somehow singing 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:55.600 the same tune, but this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back 0:03:55.600 --> 0:04:00.560 to wrongful Conviction. Today's guest is somebody I've been waiting 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.760 for for a long time. His story. As terrifying as 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.480 it is, it's also the stuff of legend because this 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.280 is a man, and Keith, I'm talking about you. I'm 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:10.680 talking about you in the third person. I'm going to 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.640 talk directly to you. Now, Keith, you have had a 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.480 life that if somebody wrote it into a movie, nobody 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.360 would believe it. And this is a guy. Now I'm 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.920 back to talking about the third person who has performed 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:27.000 concerts all over the world from inside of your cell 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:28.080 on death row. 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.720 It's so bizarre when I hear you say it, you know, 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:33.760 but yeah, it's been. It's been a hell of a 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.880 journey man to say at least, and this situation that 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.360 I'm currently facing has only focused me more all trying 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.200 to get as much life out of my life as 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:45.040 I possibly can. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.920 Yeah, I mean, despite fighting for your very life from 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:53.320 death row, which is literally hell on Earth, your pursuit 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.320 of art and life seems to have only gotten stronger. 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.719 And like I just mentioned, you've put on this spoken 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:03.000 word than jazz concerts series called Freedom First, and if 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.960 that wasn't enough, you also put out an album by 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.920 the same name. But there's even more, you know, there's. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.840 Books, documentaries, book clubs, and so on and so forth. 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.960 I'll just wake up and try to do as much 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.600 as I can with the time that I have, you know, 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.719 which is what we all should be doing. 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.920 Right yeah. I mean, I don't even know a lot 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.280 of people out here in the free world who are 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:28.520 living as much as you are inside the literal living 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.400 hell of Ohio death Throw. And we're going to get 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.440 into all of that in more detail later on, and 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.839 we're also going to be hearing from one of your attorneys, 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.599 Keegan Stefan, as well. But now I just want to 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.880 turn around first and start from the beginning of your life. 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.839 You were born and grew up in Cleveland, right, Yeah. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.400 I was born in nineteen sixty nine on the east 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.520 side of Cleveland, Ohio, in a small little end place 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.159 called the Village. You know that I was saying, it 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.320 takes a village, I think for the people who founded 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:01.080 this little place took seriously. My grandfather Lamar brought his 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.760 own home in this little enclave. It was made up 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.880 of people who were in one form or another related 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.520 and you know, during dinner time, you're gonna walk into 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.200 any number of houses and you know, people will let 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.240 you sit down and eat dinner. But there was no 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:18.720 distinction about the economic status because everybody was pretty much 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.360 on the same level. And that's where I really grew 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.320 up at from a baby until I was around seven 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.640 or eight, and my mother met and married a man 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.880 named Larry Morris, and shortly thereafter we moved out of 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:32.880 the village into the inner city. 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.279 Basically, I mean, the village sounds pretty amazing. It seems 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.400 like an odd choice to leave. What were the circumstances. 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.600 Well, my grandmother, she was to make sure of the family, 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.880 pretty much said what when and what didn't go in 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.920 our family. And my stepfather didn't like that, and so 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.120 he moved so he can kind of run his own household. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.400 But he was a side or the steff at a 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.640 country club, working for meager wages. And so that was 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.719 the first time in my life that I ever remember 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.720 being home greed and sometimes, you know, the lights would 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.960 be off, the gas would be off, and we had 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.679 to heat the house with you know, keeping the oven 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.000 door open and whatnot. And we weren't allowed to tell 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.600 my grandparents about this. To him, my brother and I, 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.640 we were just two extra miles to feed. I had 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.520 two paper routes, cutting grass, shoveling snow, you know did 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.920 all those things. You know, pants might cost fifty sixty dollars. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.520 And this was before Edic Jordan came out potentis shoes. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.640 It was just out of my range as a kid 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.520 trying to do it the legitimate way. And you know, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.200 kids are brutal, man. You know, you show up with 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.920 some knockoff Jordass jeans and you mass well came to 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.840 school but naked. You know, the ridicule was severe. It's 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.920 all authoritarily bullshit, but you don't know that when you 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.240 were a kid. And my brother, when I was ten, 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.360 who was twelve, he was hanging out with older kids, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.680 and you know, he had undergone the same ridicule as 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.240 I did and had quickly off to becoming thief and 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.560 been sent to bate to juvenile And so I was 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:07.040 thirteen by then pretty much by myself, and started hanging 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.320 with a group of older kids in the neighborhood. And 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.920 one day we all piled into a stolen car and 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.800 a police officer got right behind us, and we was 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.600 in this high speed chase like on the eighteen miles 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.760 an hour down the residential district. And I was actually 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.960 relieved when I got caught, like thank God. And we 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.120 went before the judge and he lined us, all us, 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.840 about six of us altogether, in our families, and he 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.880 went down the line. He was giving guy six months 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.880 for each offense that they'd had. And he said, Joe Bruce, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.360 this your third time in front of me, eighteen months. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.679 Joe Butler, this your second time a year, you know. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.480 And he got down to me. He said, Keith Lamar said, 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.760 what are you doing hanging with these bad boys now, 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.840 you know? And he gave my mother and my parents 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.800 the options. Do you need to take them home and 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.320 deal with them or I deal with them? You know. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.480 A stepfather told him, you deal with them. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.160 And your mother didn't have anything to say about that. 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.120 You know. Ideally, that's what you would have hoped to intervene. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.240 But she she had already been broken to the point 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.640 where she accepted somebody like this as her husband. You know, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.360 any man is better than no man. And as it 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.080 turns out, he was. He was like a monster. He was, 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:14.680 you know, the very abusive tab. 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.319 How long was your stint in juvie? 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.280 Six months? But I was thirteen, so it felt like 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.560 six years. Believing that not compared the situation I lived 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.080 and wasn't so bad. I had pre square meals a day. 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.760 I was in a structured environment. I came out of it. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:32.160 I was on a on a roll. 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.040 And who knows, maybe you could have kept going in 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.080 that direction had you returned to a more stable, you know, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:38.160 home in life. 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.040 When I when I came home, I came home. My 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.480 parents had moved into a two bedroom department as if 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.200 my brother and I had went off to the army 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.880 or something that we weren't coming back home, and so 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.640 we moved up into this uninsulated attic. Was freezing cold 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.040 in the winter, squorching hot in the summer, and we 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.040 were pretty much put on notice that we were on 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.360 our own. Beyond our eyes. There necessities that we would 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.360 not be provided for. And I was thirteen. Still when 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.040 I came home, I think I'm gonna have to start 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:11.640 selling marijuana. Weed. I brought two ounces of marijuana and 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.680 I didn't look back. Man, that was the beginning of 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:15.360 the end for me. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.240 Yeah, what about your brother. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.280 My brother had found the means of escape. He met 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.520 this girl named Paula who lives in the suburbs, and 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.679 her mother took a liking to my brother and allow 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.640 him to move in with them, and he was going 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.160 to school in suburbs. So it's me basically by myself. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.600 Now I'm fourteen years old. I'm selling marijuana. I'm so 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.760 serious about it too, because I figured this is my 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.720 only way out. And I became very good at that. 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.240 I had about five or six guys working for me 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.720 and everything, selling marijuana on the street corners and whatnot. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.160 And I came home one day and discovered that my 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.440 stepfather had been up in my room and had found 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.400 one of my statues of money. Not long after that, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.439 my stepfather kicked me out. I was fifteen years old 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.640 and I moved into the project. And this is around 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.119 eighty five eighty six, right around the time crack cocaine 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.960 started trickling into the ghetto. Nobody really knew what it was, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.240 how dangerous it was. By the time I was sixteen, 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:16.280 I had a mistake his Bens Cadillac driving Porsches, BMW 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.840 Rolettes Watchers, but run a year of two about nineteen 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.280 eighty eight, and all the detrimental effects of crack cocaine 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.080 really started to become clear. Guys I grew up with 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:33.640 were becoming dope fiends, and young women were selling their bodies. 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.600 And as the crack epidemic were on, the community became 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:41.479 increasingly desperate, affecting even Keith's childhood friend, Kenyata Collins. 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:43.280 You know, he and I grew up together. We used 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.520 to walk to school together, played basketball together. By the 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.760 time nineteen eighty eight rolled around, he was hooked on 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.560 the crack cocaine, fell in with a group of guys 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.360 that used to go around robbing drug dealers. 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.240 And on December second, nineteen eighty eight, Keith was at 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.520 the apartment when Kenyata and the stick up kids showed up. 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.679 And guys were forcing their way into the apartment. I 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.400 was shot twice, myself in the legs, you know, I 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.200 shot looking out twice, and he came through the door. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.000 I woke up in the hospital and I was right 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.120 next to the king out of Collins. I heard the 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.640 doctors when they pronounced them then, and you know, I 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.280 woke up again and that was changed to hospital big 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.719 Even once I was able to walk again. I went 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.560 to the county jail and I bombed out. 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.360 I mean, this is not a legal opinion, but your 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.240 actions in this incident sure sound like self defense and 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:34.520 the purest sense of the word. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.280 But I didn't have access to the old self defense 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.320 laws because I was selling drugs. My hands weren't playing right. 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.080 So what was your attorney's plan? 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.800 This attorney came to me on the evil trial and 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:47.439 told me, you know, that they were going to try 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.880 to put me on death row. And since I was 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.880 so ignorant out of law, I didn't know that they 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.439 elevate could climb in order to entice you to take 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.480 in the deal I played, gifts you to murder. It 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.120 really should have been manslaughtering, you know, out in the 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:08.040 state of defending myself. No fourth thoutar, malice or anything 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.800 went into us. It was manslaughter, you know. He convinced 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.640 me that that was in my benefit. That comped out. 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.240 They gave me eighteen years the life of that and 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.160 I remember that just saying, you know, don't worry about 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.000 the son. It's it's only twelve years six months to 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.120 the pro boy. But of course he didn't tell me 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:30.800 about the danger I was waiting into they send me 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.800 to Lebanon eleven in Ohio. It was three major factions 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.640 that kind of control the resources inside the person. The 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.920 Black ash Disciples sending Muslims although they don't consider themselves 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:47.880 a gang, and Aaron Brotherhoods. It's purpose a building kind 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.120 of a racism that I had. You know, the in 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.160 word you heard it constantly right around the clock. In 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.920 word is in word that. But I'm talking about my staff, 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:01.040 not just by the prisoners. We were down in southern 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.800 Ohio to Aaron Brotherhood were being armed by the guards 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.600 who worked there, some of whom were in the Aaron Brotherhood. 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.600 They had swashakers on their next And after hearing all 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.160 these war stories and young guys like me being raped, 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.719 you know, I kind of fixed my mind that that 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:16.760 wouldn't happen to me. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.680 But you didn't join the Sunni Muslims or the Black 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.280 gangster Disciples, right, oh? 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.160 You presume I wasn't in the Aaron Brotherhood I met. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.800 How rude of me not thought at that. I mean, 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.320 I'm sure their invite got lost somehow. 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.200 I never got an invite. But the first thing I 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.080 did when I came to let them, I joined the 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.640 boxing team. You know, once twice a year you have 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.720 a boxing match in front of the whole prison. You 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.720 could show everybody what you made off and people performed 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.040 the opinion after that as to whether or not you 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:49.680 are easy game or whatever. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:50.040 You know. 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.440 But I got my DDD and then they rolled into 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.040 the college program, so I was on the trib attory 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.560 in terms of preparing myself for this. 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.400 This parolee date thing out of a prison gang was 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.640 part of that plan, which continued after Keith was transferred 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.280 from Lebanon to Lucasville in nineteen ninety one, which was 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.320 arguably a more difficult and violent situation because of a 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:16.320 truly tragic incident involving an adult education teacher who worked 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:16.920 at the prison. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.680 Beverly Taylor was annee and she was murdered by a 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:25.240 black prisoner. Calls for the guy to be executed or 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.400 being put forth by the community, but the guy was 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.960 mentally handicapped and was deemed ineligible for the death ninity, 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.480 So they didn't get what they wanted, and so ultimately 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.880 a new warden was appointed a guy and they offer 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.400 take I think around ninety ninety one off the Tate 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.760 instituted this thing called operations shakedown, and he started kind 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.840 of turning the scrooves, tightening up on everything. You know, 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.400 you have to have your shirt tucked in at all times, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.880 you got to walk on the right side of the hallway. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.320 It was more or less like a military camp down. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:15:58.720 You know. 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.680 Something that happened over night he set up this po box. 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.800 If you wanted to drop the dime on somebody's warned 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.600 to become a sniss, you just put an anonymous note 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.680 in the mailbox on your way to chow all the 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.480 various factions for being pitted against each other, and you 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.880 can kind of cut the tission with it nice. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.920 And there was one incident in particular that kind of 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.080 pushed the whole thing over the edge. 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:26.480 They came up with this berclosis test and if Hemily 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.720 had an alcoholic sssant called Feno that the Muslims extendously 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.360 objected to, and the Warden Tate gave him off amazing, 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.800 you either take the tests or we're going to make 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:37.520 you take it. 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.080 So April eleventh, nineteen ninety three was Easter Sunday, and 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.600 Warden Tate planned unforcibly injecting the Sunni Muslim population on Monday, 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.880 April twelfth, So the Sunnies devised a plan to seize 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.960 control of an entire cell block by taking advantage of 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.040 the skeleton crew that worked on the holidays. Now, to 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.280 give you a lay of the land, Lucasville Prisons sprawled 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.160 out and ford directions like a wheel with four spokes, 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.280 one spoken compass maintenance, the hospital and dining hall. Walking 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.920 from there toward the center, you'd meet up with the 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.440 other three spokes, J block to the right, Kate to 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.520 the left, an L block straight ahead. Now, K and 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.400 L both consisted of a long hallway with a jim 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.400 athy N and eight wings to the sides, L one, 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.399 L two, and so on. Keith lived in L six. 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.360 It was about three pm when Keith and the other 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.679 prisoners were in the yard between K and L block 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.480 when the Sunni Muslims saw their chance and struck. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.040 Recreation was just about to end. They called over the 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.679 intercom ten minute warning for everybody started lining up to 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.080 come back inside the prison. And while we were standing 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.200 in line, a guard ran out with blood streaming down 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.879 his space, and he was followed by masks in make 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.560 care and the nine stickies, and we'd taken over we're 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.720 taken over. You know, I never forget it. And it 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.760 was just around thirty minutes or so that took over 0:17:58.800 --> 0:17:59.960 the whole L Side. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.639 Person and they later barricaded themselves into L Block and 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.240 held it for eleven days. But at this point Keith 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.600 was still out on the yard and had no idea 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.000 what was going on or what was to come. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.639 News started to circle out that they were, you know, 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.199 ramsacking the sales and everything. What was actually happening, They 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:22.000 was going from sale to sale, accumulating food, telling people 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.400 that they had to donate whatever food stuff that they 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.480 had so they can administer it during the ensuing days. 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.879 But the word that reached us on the yard was 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.119 that they was robbing the sails. And so it was 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.240 with that misinformation that I, against my better judgment, decided 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.040 to go inside and check on my personal belongings. 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.400 And this decision to go inside L Block was how 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:49.760 eventually Keith's name got dragged into what happened on L Sex. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.800 When I went in, I kind of immediately understood that, 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.360 you know, this is something more involved than just one 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.159 prisoner attacking the guard, because they were breaking windows, our 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.480 larns was going off. I mean it was pandemonium, and 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.840 you know, I made my way to my signed the 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.880 cell block L six, and in contrast to the chaos 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.120 that was going on in the corridors, it was very 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.119 very quiet. You know, guards were already locked into the 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.600 shower stalls, and there was different prisoners inside of the 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.359 cells who I later learned were but I didn't know 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.040 that at the time I came in, and not really understanding, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.520 I ran down to my cell and there was a 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.480 person inside of my cell, and so instinctively I ran 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.640 up to the control panel trying to unlock my door 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.359 so I can get this person out of my cell, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:36.680 because as far as I was sign that confirmed. But 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.640 I already kind of figured that somebody was rifling through 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.359 my things, but you know, he was a hoshist. I 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.480 went up to the control panel, was turning the knobs randomly, 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.280 you know, not really understanding how to work the panel, 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.359 and opened up a few other doors in invertedly, and 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.360 you know, that alerted the Sunny Muslims who were inside 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.800 the part, and they accostant me and told me, you 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.840 know know in certain terms that you know this is 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.520 what's going on, Willers, So you get the fuck out 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.160 of here. And you know, I chose to leave unless 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:05.600 it came back onto the yard. 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.800 Keith was ultimately accused of killing four men during his 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.919 short trip inside L Block. The hostages being held on 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.560 L six, who, according to the state, or snitches. At 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.359 this point, I want to bring in one of the 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.399 attorneys representing Keith. He's an associate at Bell Doc Lebin 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:24.919 and Hoffman. Keegan Stephan. Welcome to the show. Thank you so, Keegan. 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.720 The state's narrative of what happened on that awful Easter 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.680 Sunday in nineteen ninety three obviously diverges from Keith's version 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.440 of events, but let's start with where they are the same. 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.480 You know, Keith was not in L six when the 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:42.400 riots started, even by the state's theory and narrative of events. Second, 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.320 you know, this riot was very deliberately planned by a 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.639 group of people that Keith was not a part of. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.399 And again the state concedes that, which seems like a 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.359 very important point. 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.119 Right, But now the state disagrees with what we've already 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:56.840