WEBVTT - Tower of Power’s Emilio Castillo 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.680 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:07.720 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan run Talk, 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.760 but enough about me. My guest today is the co 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.600 founder and leader of one of the greatest horn sections 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.880 on planet Earth. They've notched hits like so Very Hard 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.680 to Go, You're Still a young Man, and of course 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.080 the immortal floor filler What Is Hip. They've also backed 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.360 a dizzying array of music's biggest artists, from Elton John 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.960 and The Stones to Huey Lewis, Little Feet, Santana. The 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.000 list goes on and on. The group celebrated half a 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.680 century together with a new live album recorded in their 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.360 hometown of Oakland. It's called fifty Years of Funking Soul 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.239 Live at the Fox Theater. And now you're about to 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.879 hear all sorts of tales from their incredible run. From 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.240 the guy who's been there for every note of their music. 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.839 I'm so happy to welcome Mr Emilio Castillo from Tower 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:56.000 of Power. Well, I have so many things to ask you. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.000 I guess we'll just dive right in. You just wrapped 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.800 up a new tour with Tower of Power. It must 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:02.480 have been so nice to get back out on the 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.520 road after the last year and a half. I imagine 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.880 that was probably the longest time you've been off the 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.920 road in quite some years. If you two years, I've 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.679 never gone off the road that much. That is nuts. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.479 Oh my goodness. I mean, how was that time at home? 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:21.200 Did you find yourself uh staying sharp musically by by writing? 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:22.520 And like, what kind of stuff did you do to 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:27.800 keep busy? I did? I wrote. I practiced my instrument, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.240 which I've never really been one to practice a lot. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.000 I never needed to, I confess that because I play 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.800 all the time, you know, But I practiced my instruments, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.319 and uh did some writing. Uh. I got married, uh 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.560 not quite a year before the pandemic, and uh so it's, 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:48.440 you know, some great time to be with my new 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.480 wife and uh that's wonderful. Yeah, really nice. And uh, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.559 you know, I was kind of a nonbelief for six months, 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.880 thinking it's gonna end any day. And after six months, 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.120 I strapped myself in and said I'm in for the 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.440 long haul and made the best of it, and uh, 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:05.640 you know, a lot of good things came out of it. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.160 But uh, grateful to be back at work. Yeah, what 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.600 was the response, Like, must have been really rapture us 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:14.800 really good for the most part, not every single gig. 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.120 I mean, we always get a good response, but some 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.040 better know, some were really off the change, you know, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.960 Like we just did this last weekend five shows in 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.639 Seattle at the Jazz Alley, and every one of the 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.640 shows was packed and they were just really excited, and uh, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:32.919 that really makes it easy for us to do a 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.480 good show. Oh Man. Speaking of live performances, he was 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:40.680 recently released a live album celebrating your fiftieth anniversary as 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.440 a band, fittingly at the Fox Theater in Oakland, Taking 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.400 it all the way back to you start. How did 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.240 this all begin for you? Was there a moment when 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.360 you knew that music was going to be sort of 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.480 a guiding force in your life. Well, I started playing 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.120 when I was fourteen, and I always tell people, you know, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.280 we we did it completely bad awards. We didn't practice 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.880 for years and years and joined the band. We started 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.440 a band the first day, and then we learned how 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:11.200 to play. And I remember my my buddy Jody Lopez 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.960 around the corner had gotten the guitar and he knew 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.560 how to play that intro to a Pretty Woman by 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.720 Roy Orbison, No No, No, no, no, no no, and 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.239 my brother could go bad bad ba the drum and 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.320 I squeaked on the saxophone, and my mother walked in 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.240 and said, they're gonna be huge stars. And you know, 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.760 it's like the band just became my whole life. And 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:39.720 very shortly after that, my father came to me and 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.920 he said, you have to be the leader of the band. Now. 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.120 My brother was the drummer, and he's ten months older 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:46.880 than me, and so he was the leader. You know, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.120 we're kids. The older one's leader. And I said, no, 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.600 Jack's the leader, you know, and he goes, no, he goes, 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.440 you need to be the leader because you you're the 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.760 one that's sort of telling everybody what to do musically, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.000 you know. And uh, and he forced me to be 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:09.360 a leader, and that changed my life. Now. A lot 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.160 of bands in the mid sixties are heavily influenced by 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.160 the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, but you were different in that. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.039 From my understanding, you were influenced by another b the Batman. 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.560 That's true. Uh, that wasn't really our idea. We uh, 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.800 we liked rock and roll, you know, we you know, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:33.200 for there was when we first started playing, people wore costumes, 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.400 you know, there was Paul Revere and the Raiders, and 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.360 in the Bay Area there was some friends at our 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.880 high school named Peter Wheat and the Breadman. There was 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.360 another band called the Dutch Masters, who you know, dressed 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.320 like those Puritans on the cigar boxes. You know, there 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.960 were all these bands that that dressed certain ways with 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.040 these costumes. And we were called the Extension Five and 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.440 we just played rock and roll, Louie Louie and you know, 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.000 hang on Sloopy and you know that kind of stuff. 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.040 And uh, we had a pretty titled bandon We all 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:07.440 were you know, sharkskin matador outfits, and uh, we went 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.000 to go audition at this place that it was actually 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:14.680 a topless bar, but on Sundays they had a team dance, 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.000 and so we went there to audition for the team 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.960 dance and the guy there, there's two of them, Sydney 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.400 Dopps and Jerry Rawlson. I'll never forget. These guys were 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.279 something else. And they came to my mother, who was 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.479 the manager at the time, and they said, we have 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.520 an idea. The Batman Show was just coming out, and 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.640 you know, when it actually came out, it proved to 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.599 be a really bogus sort of, you know. But before 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:44.520 it came out, the build up was huge. They had 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:49.240 a big ad campaign, and you know, Superman the series 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.240 was always very popular, and all of a sudden, he 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.160 comes Batman. Everybody thought it was going to be great. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.320 Plus it was in color, you know, so it was 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:00.680 gonna be this huge thing. And he said, we want 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.400 to name your kids Batman and the Robins. We'll have 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.720 your drummer dresses Batman and all the other four guys 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.560 dresses rob and we'll put a blue silk thing around 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.120 the drums that looks like a bat cave. And we'll 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:20.920 put these boxes with lights blinking perforated plastic in front, 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.880 blinking so it looks like this. You know. Yeah, these 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.880 are you know, computers, I guess. And uh so you know, 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:33.159 my mom also quite a promoter, you know, she goes, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.080 you know, yeah, we'll do that, you know. And they 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.200 said they're going to contact the TV show and say, 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:39.839 you know, you have to have them on the show. 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.400 So they did that. My mom and uh and Rockell's 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:48.240 mom got busy sewing you know, outfits, and they contacted 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.560 the TV show and said, you know, we're so excited 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.320 about the new show. That's gonna premiere, you know, the 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.920 next month, and uh, we really earned you to bring 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.880 on the hottest rocket roll band and business Batman and 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.200 the Robins, and they immediately got a letter that said 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:10.600 cease and desist immediately, and that's it's illegal to use 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.800 the name. And these guys, they didn't even miss a step. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.760 They took a step back. They went, we'll call it 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.440 the Gotham City Crme Fighters and and that's what they did. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:26.040 And and within like two weeks we were playing the 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.680 top places in the Bay Area as the number one 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.920 acts and they build us as don't miss the Gotham 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:38.800 City Crime Fighters with their fifteen thousand dollar like show. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.760 Now you gotta stand in the nineteen fifteen thousand dollars 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.760 like you know, a hundred thousand dollars, you know, and 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.320 all we really have with these boxes that we made 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.840 out apply with with this plastic and the lights blinking. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.080 But people bought it and we were mobbed. I mean 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:57.760 for about three months we were like the biggest stars 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.160 in the Bay Area. We played uh long Sherman's Hall 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.920 and the Boss and go go at the Hotel Leamington 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.920 all over town, you know, and and then you know 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:08.840 it all went away soon as the show came out. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.080 It was bogus, you know, it was really yeah, Adam West, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.360 the whole thing blew up. You know, we got tired 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:21.400 of it. Oh man. Well, aside from from Batman, who 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.720 are you? Some of your other early musical influences, I 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.440 mean James Brown, famous Flames come to mind immediately. You know, 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.240 you're born and raised in Detroit. I imagine there must 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:34.000 have been a lot of soul in those early days. Yeah. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.120 I lived in Detroit till I was eleven, and my parents, uh, 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.800 you know, they loved albums, you know, and they played 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:45.000 them all the time, and singles. So they had Elvis Presley, 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.080 and they had Bill Dogg At Honkey Talk. They always 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.640 played the Platters. They really big fans of the Platters. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.440 My mother said, I used to sit on the toilet 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.679 at six years old and sing only You by the Platters. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.600 You know. I was a really good little mimic. And 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.000 then they listen to Sarah Van and Dinah Washington, a 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.600 lot of Nat King Cole, you know that kind of stuff. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.160 So that's what I listened to as a young boy. 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.600 Then I got out to the Bay Area and I'm 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.520 missing my my friends in Detroit, and that's when all 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.880 those songs started coming out in New York by Carol 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.120 King and Jerry Goffin and Barry Man and Cynthia Wheel, 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.360 you know, the Drifters and uh, the Coasters and uh, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.280 you know all that I love that sound. You know, 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.800 all those Burt Backrack songs by Jeanne Warwick. You know, 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:43.000 I love that stuff. And then right about that time 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.720 the Motown thing yet and of course I'm missing my 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.400 friends in Detroit, so the my radio became my friend, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.720 you know, and I just loved songs and records, and 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.960 so all the Motown artists, Little Anthony and the Imperials. 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.040 Certainly later on James Brown. I remember my my and 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.480 I watching him on TV. And then one night Wayne 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.640 Cochrane came on. He was like the white James Brown 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.200 down in Florida, and we were watching me had this 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.200 big seven team piece band, and you know, we just 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.160 love that stuff. Sam and Dave otis reading really into it, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.480 you know, before it a few years. One of the 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:24.199 pre eminent San Francisco promoters and impresarios in the sixties 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:28.760 and really ever, Bill Graham ran fill More West and 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.120 East at the time, and he signed you to his label. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.079 How did you first link up with with Bill Graham. Well, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.360 the first time I met Bill Graham, I was actually 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.840 it was right after the Gotham City Crime Fighters and 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.880 we went there in audition at the original fillm war 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.600 On Gary, Gary, and I remember Bill Graham went to 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.959 my mother and uh and he said, I think your 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.920 boys need to do another year in the garage and 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:00.199 uh we then, uh, you know, a few year years 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.439 later after I got into soul music and started uh 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.520 we we we had a band called the Motowns, and 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.000 when I met Doc, we wanted to get into the 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.840 Fillmore West and so we knew we'd never get in 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.600 there wearing suits and being called the Motowns. So we 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.000 changed the name the Tower of Power and grew out 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.719 here long and you know, started dressing like everybody else 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:23.040 was dressing that day during that time, hippies, you know, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:27.880 And we got an audition at the Fillmore West and uh, 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.760 by God's grace, you know, Bill Graham Dougas and he 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:36.079 had just started two new record companies. One was distributed 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.320 to Colombia and the other one distributed to Atlantic, and 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:43.120 the one in Atlantic was San Francisco Records, and we 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.080 signed the first deal with them, and he was partners 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.880 with a producer named David Rubinson. So David Rubinson and 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.199 Bill they saw us audition and they dug it and 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.760 next thing I know, we were signed to an album deal. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.439 And you know, everybody was trying to get on those labels. 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.920 I mean everybody in the Bay Area, and people were 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.760 flying in from Texas, from Chicago, from Florida to try 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.480 and get on Bill's label. And we were nobody. We 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.400 were like the little Puddley's you know, nobody knew who 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.720 we were, you know, and but we played good soul music. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.920 We were good to dance too, and we had these 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.760 originals that we had written and they went yeah, and 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.880 they signed us. And you've often said that that, you know, 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.480 Oakland is your sound. I mean, what is it about 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.800 the Bay Area that really contributed to it, to your 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.640 music and made it what it was? You know, cities 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.760 in general have have when it comes to soul music. 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.520 They have a sound. You know, New Orleans has a 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:45.240 more a loose kind of bumped to it, and uh 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:50.680 they're singing is uh much different than say Motown or 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.559 Philly or Chicago or New York In Oakland. It was 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.920 a real urban soul sound and uh, you know, I 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.199 don't know if you know this, but sly Stone was 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.079 a disc jockey in Oakland, you know, and he was 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.160 a big influence on us because he was everybody's favorite DJ. 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.000 I mean, everybody listened to him as a DJ, even 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.400 people that weren't into soul music because he was such 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.760 a personality on the radio. And uh, you know, he 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.240 was first on ks O l K soul radio, then 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.760 he was on k d I A And right about 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:26.199 the time that I became a soul band, I saw 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.480 his band. Uh and the Stone had a local nightclub 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.360 near my house, and we used to go there Rock 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.560 and I every weekend, and we were you know, they 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.680 had a they had a cyclone fence in the back 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.520 and there was a swimming pool and there we used 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.839 to climb over that fence and go on the back 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.080 door of the club and sneak in and we would 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.559 stay there until like nine in the morning because at 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.520 eight o'clock they served free breakfast and fly in the 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.360 family Stone. They used to play like, you know, four 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.320 sets up till two am, you know, and then take 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:03.720 a break. And at two am, the bar shutdown. And 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.680 they had this law in Hayward, California, most of the 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.520 Bay Area that you couldn't dance and you couldn't drink 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.520 between two am and six am. So the bands have 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:18.079 played what's called after hours. They had to put on 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.040 a show, you know, they had they did stick. You know, 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.280 they would like do comedy with teens and like slying them. 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.120 They would go down onto the dance floor and do 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.880 handbone contest between each other and they would start a 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.840 song and everybody would switch over to the next instrument 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.400 and then played for a while and go to the 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:36.920 until they came all the way around back to their 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.600 own instrument. You know, stuff like that. You had to 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.600 do that to play after hours. We wound up being 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.600 an after hours band for you know, probably three years. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.760 I mean we played after hours a lot. So Slyde 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.480 was a big influence on us. Not not that we 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.440 wanted to be our music to be like his. We 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.200 wanted our band to be exciting live like he was. 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.800 He had the energy and we doug that. And plus 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.720 he had gregor Rico on drums and that was the 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.560 first real hip folk drummer that he hit the scene, 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.240 and he was really bringing it, you know, and I 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.680 started messing with the beat right around it. Oh, I 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.160 mean slide It's crazy. I mean, like you said, I 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.320 mean what a huge influence in the scene. I mean 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.840 not only with the band and as a DJ. But 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.440 wasn't he was producing bands. Didn't he produce the initial 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.360 incarnation of Jefferson Airplane, the Great Great Society. Didn't he 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.000 produce some of their early stuff? But he produced the 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:36.440 Bo Brummels. Yeah that's right, laugh laugh, and yeah, just 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.200 a little prod, just little And he also produced Bobby 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:43.280 Freeman Come On and Swim, which was a huge nationally. 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.920 It's that was him. I didn't know that was him. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:50.640 And he played the guitar. Oh that makes so much 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.320 sense because that could I mean that that's a heavy 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.720 record today. I I d J forty five Soul Nights 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.920 and stuff, and I play that all the time. Right, 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.960 It's great. Oh man, I mean how tight were you 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.480 in power of power with with San Francisco bands like 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:07.640 you know, the ones I just mentioned, like Jefferson Airplane 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.120 or Quicksilver Messenger Service or like were they they kind 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.320 of moved on more of the psyched people by the 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:15.240 time that you guys are really coming in your own 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.560 you know, they had kind of had their run by 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.800 the time we hit the scene. But over the the 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.280 years we became familiar with all of them because you know, 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.640 the Jefferson Air but they kind of you know, reunited 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.800 and changed your name to the Starship and we played 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.320 on their records and you know, Quicksilver Messenger Service, although 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.400 I didn't know them when, you know, before we got 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.480 signed a bill. After we got sent a billion years later, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.480 I worked with Huey Lewis in the News and Mario 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.800 Cippolino was the bass player, and his brother John was 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:52.040 in Quicksilver Messenger Service and so and then David Freiberg 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.880 was the bass player for Quicksilver. He wound up being 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:58.800 the bass player for the Starship, you know. So, yeah, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.360 I got to know all, you know, all the bands 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.720 in the Bay Area, and uh, it was a great 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.439 time to be in the Bay Area. I mean, the 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.880 whole world was looking at the Bay Area. Yeah, I mean, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.439 that was the scene. I mean, and you know, I 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.320 give all the credit for that to Bill Graham. I mean, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.439 he literally changed the music industry when he started throwing 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:26.560 concerts because he tweaked the collective ear of the Bay Area, 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:28.560 and he did it in New York too, And the 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.320 way he did it was once he got so popular 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.119 that his place was the place to be, and that 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.440 was pretty quickly. He'd have the Grateful Dead. But then 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:42.879 he'd have you know, uh Howland Wolf and uh Tito Puente, 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.119 you know, and then the next night, I need to 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.760 have Quicksilver and Miles Davis and Russ and Roland Kirk, 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.159 you know, all these. He would have Salmon Dave and 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.720 Nottice Reading and Janis Joplin, you know, all these really 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.240 and everybody. That's when you know, everybody's getting high, ending 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.879 their minds, and all these hippies are there just going, dude, 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:09.000 this is cool, you know, looking at Otis Redding, you know, well, 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.359 and you guys opening for Aretha, I think it's a 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:21.800 more East? What more West? What was that experience? Like? Phenomenal? Phenomenal. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:26.160 We actually played a gig opening for her one week earlier, 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:30.840 the weekend before that, at the CBS convention in Los Angeles, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.960 and Doc always tells this story. You know, we we 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.840 always stood at our microphones and played right in the microphones, 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.920 and we we had a big horn section sound. Well, 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.159 she had the Memphis Horns with her, and when she 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:48.720 played at the convention, you know, they all sat down 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.879 and they're reading parts, and the mics were like this 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.960 far away, and when they got we we we pretty 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.240 much and we brought it pretty good at the CBS convention. 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:00.240 So when we got to the film or us, we 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.760 noticed they were all other mics now. And then she 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:09.919 had Bernard Pretty playing drums for her, and uh and 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.199 you know he knew about us, and he really dug us, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.600 and he used to come. We played this Monday and 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.480 Tuesday night gig in jack London Square called the on Broadway, 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.080 and everybody was coming to city and all the guys 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:27.560 from Sly cold Blood, Elvin Bishop, Bass, gags Q, Massachila 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:32.040 used to come to the Santana and Bernard Pretty when 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:33.919 he was in town, he would come down there, you know, 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.200 so he knew us. And uh so if you listen 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.520 to that record or Wreath Alive at the film or 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.080 on the last night when Ray Charles came to set 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:47.760 in the Spirit in the Dark, they took the ride 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.280 out really long and at one point he breaks it 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.399 down and Bernard had gotten off the drums. He was 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.080 because the David Gribble come on, you know, and David 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.240 plays the ride out after that, and then Bernard it's 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.960 getting so excited because David Grubin he starts smashing the 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.400 symbols on two and four, you know, and you can 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.399 hear that on the record. You know. It was a great, great, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:14.800 great weekend. I remember also, Uh, cold Blood wanted to 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.800 play and uh, but Bill decided we were the ones 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.080 right for the year. But he let them play on 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.800 Saturday night. And so I went there and I'm listening 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.040 to cold Blood and you know, they had stolen our 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.239 trumpet player, Mickchillette, and so he was with them, and 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.439 but he missed us, and he used to come and 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.159 sit in with us all the time, even though he 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.480 was with them. And I remember he came to me 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.199 and he said, you know, I want to sit in 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:43.360 the film or when we played with Aretha, and I said, 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:48.280 you know, that wouldn't be right because you're with cold 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.160 Blood now, you know, and you're like their secret weapon. 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.199 It wouldn't be right for me to use them on 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.680 our set. So I didn't let him sit in with us. 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.720 And uh, I remember I was backstage sitting to them, 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:02.919 and they're a great band. It's a wonderful, you know. 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:04.800 And I was back there with a couple of the 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:08.520 background singers Sweethearts of Soul, and one of the girls 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.880 she's listening. She listen and she goes, they're good, Yeah 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.159 they are, and she does that as good as you 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.760 remember the story I always tell about Aretha. You know, 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:28.760 it was a real media event. So they had this 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.239 backstage dressing room. It was a big room, you know, 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.320 it was like three bedrooms the size of it, you know, 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.320 but all open, you know, and we're all in there, 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.720 you know. But there was so much media and so 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.879 many you know, groupies and hangers that everybody wanted to 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.520 be in that dressing room, so it was packed, you know, 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:53.639 and I couldn't even get in. So I was standing 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:58.240 in the doorway and here comes to a Wretha and 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.760 I'm standing there, and I turned the sideways and a 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.159 lead against the doorjam, and she slides in and she 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:09.320 faced to face with me, knows two knows, and she goes, 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:16.760 Tower Pout my favorite band, and I just melted. That's 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.959 one of my most favorite memories of all two. I 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.520 would ride that for the rest of my life. Yes, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:40.280 that's amazing. Wow, God I mean just so many memories. 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.240 I mean, I you you mentioned earlier about sort of 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:47.720 making the jump from from playing covers to to write 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.359 in your own material. How did that come to pass? 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.200 How did you start writing your own music? And give 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:57.760 all the credit to Doc. My thing as the band 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.440 leader of the band called the Mo Towns was I 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.240 messed with the beat, and I messed with the horn arrangements, 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:08.879 and I messed with the vocal arrangements. So I would 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.359 make up these weird beats. We would be doing ninety 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:14.080 nine and a half by Wilson Pickett. But I didn't 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:15.560 want to do it with the beat for the record, 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:19.000 you know, Cal you know. I started to make up 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:24.240 a beat like dog, and I would teach my brother 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:27.720 the beat, you know, we would rehearse andhearsement. I get 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:29.159 him to the beat, and then I make up a 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.600 baseline doogle doogle goo goo good, doogle goo good. I 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.080 teach that to Rocco, and I find a part of 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:38.080 the guitar that you know, Jody could do that would 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:42.080 go in and out, you know, and uh, and then 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:44.520 I changed the horn parts a little bit, you know, 0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:46.720 not a lot, but a little bit, you know, And 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.400 that was what I did. And one day Doc comes 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:51.960 to me after I hired him and he'd been in 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.280 the band for a little bit and we were sounded good, 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:57.040 you know, and he says, you know, what you're doing 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:01.160 with the song is amazing, you know he is, but 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:03.520 why are we doing him to everybody else's songs? Why 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:05.520 don't we run our own? And I was telling people, 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:07.480 I don't know that I ever would have thought about that. 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:10.600 That thought never occurred to me. I was totally happy 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.120 doing what I was doing, you know. But I looked 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:16.000 at me, my go we could try that, you know, 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.159 And so I went over to his apartment, you know, 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.680 a couple of days later, and uh, the first song 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.240 we wrote, You're Still a young Man still to this day, 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.720 one of the biggest turns we ever wrote, and that 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:30.520 was that I had heard a story that that was 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:34.159 semi autobiographical. Is that is that true? Well? Yeah, I 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:39.360 had a I was eighteen and I had a girlfriend 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:42.919 that was twenty four years old, and she was gorgeous, 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:46.320 gorgeous girl, and we we had this tord love affair. 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.320 And when she had this ex boyfriend and she wounded 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:51.080 up leaving to go back with the guy, and he 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.159 was kind of abusive. He was a Vietnam bed and 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:56.600 he was kind of abusive. But she had this thing 0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:58.800 for me. She she left me to go back to 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:02.160 him and broke my heart. I mean, I was devastating, 0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:05.840 you know, young, you know, and uh, but then she 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:09.600 came back to me, you know, and uh, when she 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:11.639 first broke up with me, she would always say, you know, 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:14.119 you need to hang out with girls your own age. 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:17.320 You know, you know, I'm told for you. You You know, 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:20.440 you know you're too young to be with a woman 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:22.720 my age. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:24.520 I want to be with you. So when we sat 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:27.080 down to write You're Still in a Man, first we 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:29.879 wrote the intro. We had this really great trumpet player, 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:33.000 Michel lead. And there was this song by the Impressions 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.800 called My Woman's Love that started with this beautiful intro 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:40.199 called it was a really high trumpet b Da da 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:46.399 da da dad. Uh. We loved it, you know, And 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:48.760 so the first thing Doc and me said, we got 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:50.760 to write a trumpet intro. So we wrote the intro 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:54.920 You're Still in Man. And then I said, so we 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.600 gotta tell us, well, how about a a guy is 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.960 you know, these girls are this girl is telling him, 0:26:02.000 --> 0:26:04.320 you're too young, you know, don't waste your time with me, 0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:07.280 and the guy's pleading his case. No, no, I'm not 0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:09.960 too young. I love you, you know. And that was 0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:14.640 basic enough me and this girl, Sharon Martin, and so yeah, 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.800 we just started writing down on my knees, hard in hand. 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:21.879 I was accused of being too young, but I'm not 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:24.600 too young. Can't you understand. I think like a man, 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:28.160 you're still a young man. The girls, you know, of course, 0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:31.560 we didn't have no girls, so we sing background. Did 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:35.879 she ever know that that was about her? No? But she, 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:37.840 you know, I told her. She came back to me 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:40.960 and then broke up with me again, and the second 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:43.159 time I kind of got over it, and then she 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:46.560 came back a third time, and by then we had become, 0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:49.960 you know, we had some notoriety by that power. She 0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:53.040 was under the impression that I wrote this other song, 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.560 Sparkling in the Sandford because somebody said. I think somebody 0:26:56.640 --> 0:27:00.240 told her, you know that song it's about you, then, 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:02.479 you know, But she thought it was this other one, 0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:05.080 the song with the flute, Sparkling in the sand, which 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:07.880 was another love song, but that wasn't really written for her, 0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:12.480 I gotta ask about what is hip? What is the 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:17.240 genesis of that track? And probably I would imagine, uh, 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.639 the the one that that gets people on their feet 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:23.680 the most that you show is just because it's such 0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:27.480 a classic. Yeah, I mean it definitely is. Uh, you know, 0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:29.560 we have to play it. We'll get lynched if we 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.639 don't play what is It? And we generally closed the 0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:35.520 show with it, and there was Docs once again to 0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:38.560 give the credit to Doc. You know, he's really lyrically 0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.840 the clever lyricist. I kind of come up with clever 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:44.640 lyrics here and there. He sort of lives by them, 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:48.680 you know. And uh, he came to me and he said, 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:51.760 I want to write a song called what is Hip? 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:55.320 And I go, what is hip? What does that mean? 0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:59.320 He goes, well, you know what's hip today? Tomorrow will 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:04.840 be past you know. I okay. And so we decided 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.840 to write it, and then we invited David Garibaldi to 0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:11.159 come and join us in the writing process, and mainly 0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:13.720 Doc and I came up with the chords, and you know, 0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:17.600 him and I worked out the lyrics on the verses. Uh. 0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:21.359 But Dave is the one that after we had written it, 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:25.320 he was in the rehearsal. Hall uh. They used to jam. 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.320 We would rehearse from eleven to five. But then these 0:28:28.359 --> 0:28:31.040 guys from Santana would come over, you know at the 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:34.119 basse player Deeggie Rosher was really good and him and 0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:36.640 David would jam. And there was a song called I'm 0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:40.480 Going Down by Freddie King and it had this baseline 0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:43.560 doo doo googogle. You know, it was really cool, you know, 0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:46.800 and so they were jamming on that, and then David, 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:50.120 as he's prone to do, he always like you come 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:51.400 up with the beat, and then he goes, you know, 0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:53.720 we could do this, you know, and so he put 0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:56.560 this hit in there, a sixteen for one do do 0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:00.960 do do? You know? And then then he added two 0:29:00.960 --> 0:29:05.680 more bob, you know, and so he comes in he says, man, 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:08.480 we were me and Deugie were jamming last night. We 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:12.120 were jamming on that groove from them going down is 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:13.760 you know, maybe we could use that for what it 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:18.120 is hip. You know. They played it for me kidding 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:22.000 that work perfect, I saying right over it it fit perfectly. 0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:26.200 And then Rockoll of course on the base, he took 0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:30.080 it to another level on the base. Oh yeah, I 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:32.640 mean it's like an earthquake. I mean, that's that's that's 0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:34.959 a song you gotta listen to on good speakers. It's 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:38.520 like you gotta feel that track. Oh man. I mean 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:43.520 there's so many things, so many incredible songs. I think 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.720 I have this right, I I you're I would imagine 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:49.120 you're one of the few people who's worked with both 0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:55.120 Quincy Jones and George Martin. Uh two. I mean I'm 0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:59.480 hard pressed to name more famous producers in history. What 0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:01.520 were those experiences like? I mean, George Martin, I'm a 0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:04.360 huge Beatles fans I was around. I imagine when he 0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:08.680 was producing UM America. What what was he like in 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:14.480 the studio? Well, we did UM What was the Beatles movie? 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:18.959 Uh oh, Sergeant Pepper Sergeant Pepper's Only Heartscoued Band. Yes, 0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:22.360 So they made the movie starring Peter Frampton, and he 0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:25.800 brought in our horn section and some other horn players, 0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:29.960 very good, Chuck Finley, Bill Watress, you know, and we 0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:32.280 did like three or four days of recording, a lot 0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:38.160 of recording. And he was a perfect gentleman always, but 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:42.400 he was very specific about what he wanted, you know, 0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:46.320 and and he had a way of just really respectfully 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:49.239 letting you know, know right here we needed or you know, 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.200 I want you to check the tuning here right there 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:55.080 that notes a little short and I need the full 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:58.600 length on it. He was he was very musically, very knowledgeable, 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:03.000 and very pacific. And I we love that. We we 0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:05.920 don't like him when we're in the you know, in 0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:08.240 the studio and the producer goes. You know, I wanted 0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:12.120 to be like you know when the rose pedals that 0:31:12.200 --> 0:31:15.040 kind of stuff, you know, that makes do we like 0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:17.440 people that talk to music, you know. And he was 0:31:17.480 --> 0:31:20.440 a real musician. And then you know, we did that 0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:24.400 and it was great. And then a few years later 0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:27.719 he was producing the band America and he was up 0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.840 at our studio that we recorded at and Soaslito the 0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:34.920 record plans, and he called us again and uh and 0:31:34.920 --> 0:31:40.640 and once again same thing. Real gentlemen, but respectfully, very 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.640 specific about what he wanted, and he just brought it 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:45.760 out of I mean, you can see why he was 0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:50.120 such a great producer, you know. And I mean Quincy 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:52.800 must have been cool for you because all those stories 0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:56.400 about you know, Saravan and swinging Miss d and folks 0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:58.000 like that, I mean, folks you grew up with that 0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:01.280 must have been a really nice whole circle moments for 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:04.959 all your influences. Yeah, we knew Quincy because we toured 0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:06.840 with him when he had he had a hit record 0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:10.440 called Body Heat, and he brought out a really hot 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:14.760 band and we actually he had a trumpet player named 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:17.320 Bill Lamb that used to come sitting with us. Him 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:20.440 and Mick Gillette together was phenomenal. But he also had 0:32:20.480 --> 0:32:24.200 this guitar and basse player named Johnson, you know, Lewis 0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:28.240 Johnson and his brother and he said, I'm going to 0:32:28.360 --> 0:32:30.400 do a record on these guys, and I want you 0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:32.640 guys to be on it because he really dug us. 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:35.080 I mean every night you know, we were bringing in 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:37.720 he he just dug the band a lot. So we're 0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:41.320 all friendly, you know, and uh, sure enough, you know 0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.480 a few months later, he calls us into the studio 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:47.040 in Los Angeles and, uh, you know, we're doing the 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:50.920 tracks and they sound great. You know, we're kind of 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.360 taking a little break and we're complimenting him on it. 0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:57.200 He goes, this thing is gonna go go, you know immediately, 0:32:57.280 --> 0:33:00.600 you know, and mind you no, he knew who the 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:04.080 brothers Johnson worked. You know, they had done one tour 0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:07.680 with Quincy Jones. That's it so but that's how sure 0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:10.480 of it he was. And he started talking about all 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.160 the gold records we had blah blah blah, and we 0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:16.120 didn't have any gold records, you know. And he goes, 0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:18.240 what do you mean you don't have any gold records? Go, 0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:20.840 I don't know. We never got any, you know. And 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:24.240 he says, are you kidding me? Warner Brothers didn't send 0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:27.040 you gold records for the Tower of Power albums or 0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:29.600 back to Oakland and you I'm shocked by that. And 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:32.880 I go, now, we never got one, and he goes, uh, 0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:35.600 well you're getting one for this one. This is going gold, 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.120 and you're gonna get one. It's sure enough. And a 0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:41.760 couple of months later, delivered to my door gold record, 0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:44.520 you know, And I still haven't. Oh that is a 0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:47.840 great the one with the Sugar Otis tracks Strawberry Letter 0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:51.320 twenty three. Oh, that is as a great record. We 0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:54.000 actually played on that song. But I don't think he 0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:55.840 put me. I think he took the horns off age. 0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:08.400 It's funny. Before I knew I was talking to you, 0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:12.239 I was watching or listening on YouTube to you and 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:17.120 the Stones at Candlestick Park almost exactly forty years ago 0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:21.400 in October of eighty one. Uh, doing Satisfaction at the end. 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:24.200 It's on YouTube, and it just sounded so good. And 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:25.880 this is this is actually before I know I was 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:27.919 talking to you. I just wanted to hear it because 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:31.560 it's such a legendary show. What are your memories of 0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:34.239 that night at Candlestick Park? I didn't know that was 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:38.160 on YouTube. I gotta watch. Yeah, that was phenomenal, you know. 0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:43.879 Um Bill Graham was the one that promoted not only 0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.360 that tour, but several of their tours at that time. 0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:50.200 And uh, and he wanted us to play with the Stones. 0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:53.040 But he came to me and he said, you know, 0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:56.840 with the Rolling Stones, you can't go to them and 0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:59.160 say I would like you to have these guys play 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:01.919 with you. You know, is it just it can't be done. 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:06.160 They have to ask you. And he said, so I'm 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.400 going to make sure that you are in their presence 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:13.359 for the next few weeks. And uh, we did a 0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:16.239 gig with we were playing with Heart at the time, 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:18.520 the horn sections and they were opening for the Stones 0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:22.680 and they did it in Denver and Bills Bill said, 0:35:23.080 --> 0:35:25.640 I want you to come to the hospitality suite after 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:30.279 the show in the hotel and bring your horns, but 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:34.400 don't bring them in. And so we go okay, and 0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:36.920 you know, and then we get there. We're in this hospitalize. 0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.560 I mean there's fine wines and all this great food, 0:35:40.160 --> 0:35:44.920 you know, records, supersound system and records they're playing, and 0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:48.840 then before we know it, here comes Mick Jagger and 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:52.239 he comes in and starts talking. And I remember he 0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:55.000 was really into Prince. Prince had just come up, and 0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:57.479 we knew who Prince was because he recorded his first 0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:00.279 record across the hall from us and saw the leto. 0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:02.799 So he's asking me and do you know Prince you know? 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:06.400 And I'm like, yeah, we do. Actually, you know, he 0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:11.279 was across all he actually took our second engineer and uh. 0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:13.520 And he starts talking about that and we're getting along 0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:15.719 and Bills over there going oh this is going good, 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:21.160 you know, and he says, uh, hey, he goes the 0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:24.160 guys have their horns because uh, and he tells our 0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:26.040 road he was with us, because uh, why don't you 0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:27.880 go get the horns bring him up. I don't know 0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:30.080 what he's thinking. Where we're gonna play the horns in 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:34.560 the hospitality sleep and uh. So he sends my roadie 0:36:34.600 --> 0:36:36.640 down and we're all kind of feeling kind of awkward. 0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:39.840 The next thing, we know, Mixed sort of stops talking 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:42.839 and he turns around and he kind of dances out 0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:48.120 of the room backwards, and he was gone. And Bill goes, ah, 0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:50.840 and messed up. I shouldn't have done that. You know. 0:36:50.960 --> 0:36:56.479 We're like, what what what happened? And he goes that 0:36:56.480 --> 0:36:58.399 that didn't feel right to him, you know, so when 0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:00.600 I said to get the horns, that was I shouldn't 0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:03.560 have done it. And so then he flew me to 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:07.439 San Diego, to Los Angeles and then finally and I'm 0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:11.000 and I'm hanging out, you know, where the Rolling Stones are, 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:14.399 you know, and they're completely ignoring me. You know, I'm 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:17.160 not a real I'm not a real uh you know, 0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:22.160 social person in terms of, you know, hey man, let's party, 0:37:22.239 --> 0:37:24.680 you know kind of thing. I'm just hanging out, you know. 0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:28.200 And of course, so they're there, you know, because what 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:30.000 he told me was he said, you have to understand 0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:33.680 I think if you were like, you know, your face 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.440 was the most recognizable face in the entire world. Because 0:37:37.480 --> 0:37:40.120 that's what these guys deal with on a daily basis. 0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:42.880 And he goes so it has to be their idea 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:45.400 and blah blah blah, and I'm like, yeah, whatever, and 0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:50.480 so I'm you know, Denvers and Diegos Angeles. Finally we 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:56.240 get to the Bay Area and uh, you know, I'm tired. 0:37:56.400 --> 0:38:00.560 I've been hanging out nobody's asking me to do so, 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:03.360 you know, I'm kind of burnt out. And then but 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:06.759 I go to Candlestick Park and Bills like, you know, 0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:10.759 he has to talk with Mick Jaggers. Look, you know, 0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:14.319 don't you get it. I keep putting this guy in 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:16.360 your presence because I want the horns to play with 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:18.560 you that the greatest horn section in the world, you know, 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:22.600 and make a well yes, certainly, you know. And so 0:38:22.640 --> 0:38:26.200 we're supposed to play Satisfaction and this is the first 0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:31.760 night and h Keith Keith Richards wasn't there. And finally 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:36.000 he shows up late and he's sick, probably dopes it, 0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:40.080 you know, and uh, it doesn't feel good. And he 0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:45.040 comes in and we're in there, you know, um getting 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:48.040 ready and he's what's this, you know, and make a 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:51.839 top hard you're going to play with just not tonight, 0:38:53.160 --> 0:38:57.040 And they canceled us and that was it for me. 0:38:57.200 --> 0:38:59.560 That was a start book. I said, I'm out of here, 0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:03.680 you know. And uh, but Doc, Doc and Keith Richards 0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:07.520 they got along pretty good. And uh, Doc was devastated 0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:10.359 because we were ready to go on, you know. And 0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:14.719 so after the show, Bill Graham goes up to Keith 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:19.239 Richards because he knows that he likes Doc, and he goes, man, 0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:21.120 I can't believe you did that, you know, and Keep 0:39:21.160 --> 0:39:24.879 goes what and he says, you devastated that poor Gray 0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:29.240 goes who you know, because Doc, because they were gonna 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:32.400 play man, it's a big deal. You know, it's wrong. 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:37.160 We'll do it tomorrow, you know. And so I wasn't there. 0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:39.239 I had gone home when I was staying with my 0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:43.600 father in law, and by then I'm trashed. Man, I'm done. 0:39:43.920 --> 0:39:45.480 And I woke up the next morning. I remember my 0:39:45.480 --> 0:39:48.399 father going, aren't you going to the stadium? I said, now, 0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:51.839 heck with that, and I'm done. You know, I think 0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:54.959 you should go. And so you got a cab went there. 0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:58.640 And when I drive up in the cab, Bill Graham 0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:01.040 is in there out in the park waiting for me 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:04.640 to get it in there they were rehearsing, and I 0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:07.000 go into this trailer and the guys all got their 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:09.439 horns out and I'm getting my horn out and Keith 0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:14.040 Richards looks at me and he goes, we're doing satisfaction. 0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:18.480 Do you know the otis redding parts? You know? I go, yeah, 0:40:18.600 --> 0:40:20.279 I think so. You know, we played this song a 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:23.279 million times, right, and so we started working it up 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.560 and they like it, so it's all it's all rage. 0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:28.399 We're gonna go on for the uncle. So they play 0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:31.320 their set and they have a like a little rolling 0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:34.600 riser with five mikes for us, and we're behind this 0:40:34.840 --> 0:40:37.920 scream you know where you can't see us, but we 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:40.239 can sort of see through it to the state, and 0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:43.160 they're killing it, you know. And then the said ends 0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:47.360 and they come off and we're getting already and Keith 0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:53.040 Richards goes on to our riser and passes out. And 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:57.160 the next thing I know, uh, Bill Graham's on top 0:40:57.200 --> 0:40:59.319 of him and funct him at the heart and he's 0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:02.040 giving him up the mouth and he is not coming 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:05.320 to and I'm like, I can't even believe this. After 0:41:05.360 --> 0:41:08.839 all this, this guy's gonna did die right here. And 0:41:08.920 --> 0:41:11.840 the next thing I know, this guy comes up with 0:41:11.920 --> 0:41:15.560 this black bag. It's obviously there doctor and shoots them 0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:20.200 up with something than Keith Richards jumps up. He goes 0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:26.560 Let's rock and they starts settisfaction, you know. And then 0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:28.440 as soon as the beat kicks and we start going 0:41:28.520 --> 0:41:32.719 Papa but that but little that, you know, we're nailing it. 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.680 And I remember that we got to the rideout and 0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:41.000 Mick Jagger is loving it and he keeps looking at 0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:44.680 us and they're going so he's stretching out the ride up. Well, 0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:48.319 you know, in a soul band, you know, when the 0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:51.759 ride is really kicking, the lead trumple player takes it 0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:55.800 up and acted so Nick Gillette and he had great range, 0:41:55.880 --> 0:42:00.320 you know, boom, he takes it up up. He's blood 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:04.000 and you know and mix less loving and I mean, uh, 0:42:04.440 --> 0:42:06.520 Mick Jagger is loving it more and more and more. 0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:10.120 So he's making it go longer and longer. He wants 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:13.359 getting redder and redder, you know, but he's making every note. 0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:16.120 He's burning it and then finding the ends the tune 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:22.960 we had the last chord and Mick Jagger goes top 0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:25.960 our horns and we're in San Francisco. They knew us 0:42:26.200 --> 0:42:30.200 place perserved, you know, and uh, Bill Graham jumps on 0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:33.000 my back. He's going you guys are the greatest words 0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:37.200 of the world. He's going crazy. It was the most 0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:42.400 incredible moment. Man, it's the adrenaline was unbelievable. Oh my goodness, 0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:45.640 I can I can only imagine. I mean, I would have. 0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:47.160 I was. One of my questions was I was gonna 0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:50.160 ask you He's there a moment Of all the places 0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:52.080 you play, people you played with, it is one that 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:56.680 stands out. But I imagine that's probably number one on 0:42:56.760 --> 0:42:58.360 the list if I were to guess. We had a 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:01.080 lot of good moments, but that was one of the best. 0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:05.880 Oh my goodness. I mean, it's such an incredible career. 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:09.399 I mean, and just just your sound is so I mean, 0:43:10.120 --> 0:43:12.319 it's so distinct, that's so you. I mean, you've never 0:43:13.520 --> 0:43:16.319 it's it's never had the change because it's perfect in 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:17.960 my opinion. I mean, I wanted to ask you me. 0:43:18.040 --> 0:43:21.399 I know, you get asked to play uh so many 0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:23.279 session dates with so many different bands, and I know 0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:26.239 that a crucial component of your sort of agreeing to 0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:28.719 do it is to use your own arranger. And I 0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:30.719 wanted to ask you more about that, like, how do 0:43:30.760 --> 0:43:34.120 how does that factor into as somebody who loves music 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:37.920 like I do, but and messes around on instruments. But 0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:40.040 it is not a guy in the wool musician would 0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:41.960 never call myself that. I want to know more about 0:43:42.160 --> 0:43:44.120 the kind of role that that your ranger plays and 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:47.960 helping craft your your sound as a band. It's really 0:43:48.560 --> 0:43:53.120 integral when you're doing session work for other artists that 0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:57.080 you have in mind the fact that it's about the artist. 0:43:57.600 --> 0:44:01.080 It's not about your orange or your arrangement. It's about 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:05.719 the artist. So whatever you put on that recording needs 0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:08.440 to not get in the way. You know, whatever the 0:44:08.480 --> 0:44:11.000 hook of the song is, you can't step on it 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:14.080 with the horn parts. If there's an incredible lead vocalist, 0:44:14.280 --> 0:44:17.680 you don't step all over that vocal with your horn parts. 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:21.040 You know. If there's all these rock and roll bands 0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:24.479 have these group down on not you know, you don't 0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:27.360 step on that with horns because when you go to mix, 0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:31.600 you know, you're trying to get the horns to STIs 0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:34.719 stand out, But the guitar, who is the main guy 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:37.560 in the band, is going so you gotta make sure 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:39.759 he's hurt. And what you do, you can't hear the 0:44:39.760 --> 0:44:42.760 horns at all, So you have to pick your spots 0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:46.200 really carefully. And we had our horn ranger was Greg 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:49.600 Adams for about twenty five years, and he got that 0:44:51.160 --> 0:44:54.680 way of arranging down to a science. You know. He 0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:58.200 were really sparse arrangements when we did rock and roll bands, 0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:01.720 you know. And but when we played it was during 0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:04.880 the whole, you know, maybe right on the one or 0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:07.640 you know, bat I had that whatever it was, it 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:10.760 was in the hole and they could mix it really 0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:13.920 loud without covering up all the stars of the show, 0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:16.759 you know. And that's really the key. And what I 0:45:16.880 --> 0:45:20.640 find is when when I don't insist on having our arrangers, 0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:25.000 we get hooked up with other people that don't realize that. 0:45:25.040 --> 0:45:28.960 And for some reason, people seem to think that, especially 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:31.480 rock and roll people. They seem to think, if you 0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:34.000 got sacks as well, you want to play low low 0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:38.200 fish doo doo doo dude. You know. But as I said, 0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:41.279 you've got three guitar players doing that, you know, so 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:46.200 why would you do that? You know? And we had that. 0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:49.880 That situation happened on an Aerosmith record. Just push play. 0:45:50.320 --> 0:45:53.640 If you listen to that recording, the song that we're on, 0:45:54.320 --> 0:45:57.640 it's not existent, you know. And that's because they insisted 0:45:57.680 --> 0:46:00.600 on using this arrange. I remember I told him, I said, 0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:04.520 you know, it really works better if we do the arrangement. No. No, 0:46:05.040 --> 0:46:07.280 our friend doesn't you know, he's arranged for Barbara Stress 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:10.600 and he's really a musician. But I go, Okay, when 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:12.680 are we gonna tell him? No, it's a Erros you know. 0:46:13.400 --> 0:46:17.719 And uh, but you know, the arrangement just it wasn't 0:46:17.760 --> 0:46:20.520 the type of arrangement that we do, and so when 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:23.400 they went to mix it, I couldn't really bring it up. 0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:26.200 You know, this as though we're not on the record, 0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:30.160 so we get the credit. You read the back of 0:46:30.160 --> 0:46:32.839 the album Tower Power Horns, You're like, great, where are they? 0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:36.600 You know? How about you? When you're writing, is this 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:38.880 something that you do every day or is it something 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:41.279 that really you have to be moved to do? Doc 0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:45.759 writes every day. Doc carries a notebook with He's very passionate, right. 0:46:46.120 --> 0:46:48.880 I I've always And it's interesting because you know, I 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:51.560 really make most of my money from my writing, you know, 0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:54.600 but I put very little time into it. But you know, 0:46:55.440 --> 0:46:57.840 like like we we had the pandemic, and uh, I 0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:00.960 make appointments for people, you know, I have a few 0:47:00.960 --> 0:47:02.920 people are write with, and sometimes I want to want 0:47:02.920 --> 0:47:05.279 to write with somebody new, and I'll just say, you know, 0:47:05.360 --> 0:47:08.080 how you doing Tuesday at eleven? You know, show up 0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:11.480 and we write a song. In the old days, you know, 0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:14.520 me and Doc lived together, and you know, there's a 0:47:14.560 --> 0:47:17.600 lot of drug and alcohol use, so you're partying and 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:20.960 getting high. It's like, that's right, we start to write, 0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:24.799 you know, but you know, now everybody's sober. You know, 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:28.000 I'll got families, I'll got homes, and so we will 0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:30.759 make appointments. You know, well, show up and h We 0:47:30.840 --> 0:47:33.760 always pray first, you know, that's the first thing we do. 0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:37.120 And then we talk a little bit, you know, uh 0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:39.600 what's going on? You know, I just kind of talk 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:42.359 and then if anybody's got a particular idea, I might 0:47:42.440 --> 0:47:45.759 have a rhythm idea or a hook. Doc might have 0:47:45.800 --> 0:47:49.160 a lyrical idea. You know, I might have a court progression, 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:52.080 or we'll just I'll just sort of start noodling around 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:55.720 and oh that's cool. You know, It's like it's like fishing. 0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:58.720 You know, once you get a bite, then you really 0:47:58.760 --> 0:48:01.560 did know. If if it's the book, then you want 0:48:01.560 --> 0:48:03.760 to write a story in the first verse that leads 0:48:03.800 --> 0:48:06.120 to it, and then after the first start, you want 0:48:06.120 --> 0:48:09.319 to develop that story further in the second verse, and then, 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:12.960 you know, maybe you do the hook again, or maybe 0:48:13.400 --> 0:48:15.720 you take a left turn to do what's called the bridge, 0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:19.040 you know. And the bridge could be a musical bridge, 0:48:19.040 --> 0:48:23.279 it could be a lyrical bridge. It could change chords completely, 0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:26.240 or it could be the same chord, put a little 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:30.000 guitar thing over it, you know, but something that separates 0:48:30.239 --> 0:48:33.040 that does sort of a left turn, and then back 0:48:33.080 --> 0:48:36.239 to the hook or maybe half of a verse where 0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:38.840 you developed the story a little more, even maybe with 0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:41.640 a little extension on it, go to the hook and 0:48:41.680 --> 0:48:45.760 then build the writer. This is probably a loaded question, 0:48:45.800 --> 0:48:49.920 but do you think that songwriting is something that anyone 0:48:50.000 --> 0:48:52.839 can do or is it something that you kind of 0:48:53.120 --> 0:48:56.040 have to be born with in some ways? Well, I 0:48:56.040 --> 0:48:57.640 don't know that you have to be born with it, 0:48:57.680 --> 0:49:01.800 but no, it's not something anybody can do. That's what 0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:05.480 I I I'm good. I feel a little better because 0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:08.160 I've I've I've played a number of instruments since i 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:10.920 was a young teenager, and I've never been able to 0:49:10.960 --> 0:49:13.080 write a song in my whole life. Try as I might, 0:49:13.160 --> 0:49:15.799 it's never been something that uh happens to me to 0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:19.960 write with people. And although during the pandemic, I wrote 0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:22.400 a few songs by myself and that that was the 0:49:22.480 --> 0:49:25.640 first I think. I just I like to bounce off 0:49:25.680 --> 0:49:29.960 of people, you know. To me, it's just easier. Well 0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:32.080 that was I was gonna ask you, are these songs 0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:34.400 that you've been working on during the pandemic, are they 0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:37.640 there a new album on the way or well I 0:49:38.000 --> 0:49:41.760 want to do uh. You know, the last time we recorded, uh, 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:47.280 besides the live thing, we did two albums Soul Side 0:49:47.280 --> 0:49:49.640 of Town, and then one came out called Step Up 0:49:49.680 --> 0:49:53.280 during the pandemic, and we recorded all that material at once. 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:55.960 So I worked on it for like many years, you know, 0:49:56.560 --> 0:49:59.439 and it was twenty eight songs, you know. So that's 0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:03.840 a big project. But I mean it really paid off, 0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:07.760 you know, and UH had a coesiveness. We had two 0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:11.680 really great products with some bonus tracks that we could 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:15.279 use for Japan or Europe. It just worked out really well. 0:50:15.360 --> 0:50:19.760 So I'd like to do the same thing, record two albums, 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:21.759 and I want to record a Christian album, you know. 0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:24.839 I I became a Christian in two thousand and four, 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:30.120 and as a Christian, I started listening to gospel praise music, 0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:33.440 and it's my opinion that all the great soul singers 0:50:33.760 --> 0:50:39.759 are in the church. I'm a fan of Orlanda Adams, 0:50:39.960 --> 0:50:44.840 Dietrich Hadden. I just love all these uh gospel praise 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:52.160 singers and their productions. Really contemporary, you know, Fred Hammond, Yeah, yeah, 0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:55.640 you know. And so I want to do a Christian 0:50:55.680 --> 0:50:59.440 album and a secular album, but I want to record 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:04.919 them all at once. Really cool. So that's the plan 0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:09.440 right now at tentative, you know. But meanwhile, everybody's writing. 0:51:09.600 --> 0:51:12.480 I've written a bunch docs, always writing, the guys right, 0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:15.959 and when it's time to make the record, we'll listen 0:51:16.000 --> 0:51:20.960 to everything, choose some songs and get don't know, I know, 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:23.040 you just got off the road, I think a matter 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:25.960 of days ago, But any any plans for heading back 0:51:26.000 --> 0:51:28.640 out there soon? We were you know, we we We're 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:31.680 not a band that says I'm going on tour and 0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:33.600 then you're you're off for a few months. We just 0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:36.680 got a model time. So we did our first gig 0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:39.560 at the Hollywood Bowl in August eight, and then we 0:51:39.600 --> 0:51:41.759 flew across country. We had a couple of days off. 0:51:41.800 --> 0:51:44.520 We flew across country and we did a little East 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:47.640 coast northeast run and then we came back and then 0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:50.760 we went to the Bay Area, did some days, came back, 0:51:51.400 --> 0:51:53.560 you know, so we kind of we do this little. 0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:57.880 Sometimes there are three weeks, sometimes you're five days. Sometimes 0:51:57.880 --> 0:52:00.480 it's a weekend. You know. Right now, I don't have 0:52:00.520 --> 0:52:03.360 a gig for almost three weeks and then I go 0:52:03.440 --> 0:52:07.840 out for I think six days. And that's how we 0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:09.560 do it. We're just always in and out. And it's 0:52:09.640 --> 0:52:12.839 usually two hundred days a year we're away from home. 0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:17.120 And you know that that's not all gigs. It's travel 0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:19.879 days and days off on the road. But at least 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:27.839 at least a hundred seventy gigs that still loving it. 0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:33.839 Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah people you know. Uh, I'm 0:52:33.880 --> 0:52:36.719 also in the recovery community, you know, so a lot 0:52:36.760 --> 0:52:39.520 of these people are the meetings that I attend. They 0:52:39.520 --> 0:52:43.080 know what I do now, you know. And there was like, so, so, 0:52:43.120 --> 0:52:45.560 how do it feel it feel good to get back? Yes, 0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:49.920 it feels really cometable because we got back together. We 0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:52.480 did we did the Hollywood Bowl and went up to 0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:56.280 the East coasts and we were we located ourselves in Boston. 0:52:56.320 --> 0:52:58.279 We went up to New Hampshire, did two gigs in 0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:01.239 Boston and then went down to our Virginia and I 0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:03.839 think it was about three days in. We were all 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:07.759 hanging out and uh, and Garibaldi goes, man, Yes, it's 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:11.360 amazing the way it comes back so quick, you know. 0:53:11.680 --> 0:53:14.080 And we had rehearsed a couple of couple of days, 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:18.000 you know, but it's just right now. It just feels 0:53:18.000 --> 0:53:20.239 so in the pocket. And uh, you know, I have 0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:24.000 a great group of guys. I mean we are truly 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:28.279 friends and brothers, and uh, we support each other and 0:53:28.560 --> 0:53:32.279 we miss each other, you know. So it's always great 0:53:32.280 --> 0:53:35.360 to get back out there and got a great crew, 0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:38.600 have great management. After all these years, you know, I've 0:53:39.280 --> 0:53:47.520 I've learned how to hire well. I could say that again. Absolutely, Oh, Amelia, 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:49.719 thank you so much. I don't want to take up 0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:51.120 too much more of your time, but it has been 0:53:51.200 --> 0:53:53.239 such a joy and a pleasure talking to you. I 0:53:53.480 --> 0:53:56.120 really and an honor he is in the ad. Thank 0:53:56.120 --> 0:53:58.000 you so much for your time today and your music. 0:53:58.040 --> 0:54:00.360 It really means a lot to me. Thank you ur 0:54:00.440 --> 0:54:05.680 news my pleasure. We hope you enjoyed this episode of 0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:08.680 Inside the Studio, a production of i heart Radio. For 0:54:08.800 --> 0:54:11.920 more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, 0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:14.640 check out the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or 0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:16.400 wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.