Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan run Talk,
Speaker 1: but enough about me. My guest today is the co
Speaker 1: founder and leader of one of the greatest horn sections
Speaker 1: on planet Earth. They've notched hits like so Very Hard
Speaker 1: to Go, You're Still a young Man, and of course
Speaker 1: the immortal floor filler What Is Hip. They've also backed
Speaker 1: a dizzying array of music's biggest artists, from Elton John
Speaker 1: and The Stones to Huey Lewis, Little Feet, Santana. The
Speaker 1: list goes on and on. The group celebrated half a
Speaker 1: century together with a new live album recorded in their
Speaker 1: hometown of Oakland. It's called fifty Years of Funking Soul
Speaker 1: Live at the Fox Theater. And now you're about to
Speaker 1: hear all sorts of tales from their incredible run. From
Speaker 1: the guy who's been there for every note of their music.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to welcome Mr Emilio Castillo from Tower
Speaker 1: of Power. Well, I have so many things to ask you.
Speaker 1: I guess we'll just dive right in. You just wrapped
Speaker 1: up a new tour with Tower of Power. It must
Speaker 1: have been so nice to get back out on the
Speaker 1: road after the last year and a half. I imagine
Speaker 1: that was probably the longest time you've been off the
Speaker 1: road in quite some years. If you two years, I've
Speaker 1: never gone off the road that much. That is nuts.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. I mean, how was that time at home?
Speaker 1: Did you find yourself uh staying sharp musically by by writing?
Speaker 1: And like, what kind of stuff did you do to
Speaker 1: keep busy? I did? I wrote. I practiced my instrument,
Speaker 1: which I've never really been one to practice a lot.
Speaker 1: I never needed to, I confess that because I play
Speaker 1: all the time, you know, But I practiced my instruments,
Speaker 1: and uh did some writing. Uh. I got married, uh
Speaker 1: not quite a year before the pandemic, and uh so it's,
Speaker 1: you know, some great time to be with my new
Speaker 1: wife and uh that's wonderful. Yeah, really nice. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I was kind of a nonbelief for six months,
Speaker 1: thinking it's gonna end any day. And after six months,
Speaker 1: I strapped myself in and said I'm in for the
Speaker 1: long haul and made the best of it, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of good things came out of it.
Speaker 1: But uh, grateful to be back at work. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was the response, Like, must have been really rapture us
Speaker 1: really good for the most part, not every single gig.
Speaker 1: I mean, we always get a good response, but some
Speaker 1: better know, some were really off the change, you know,
Speaker 1: Like we just did this last weekend five shows in
Speaker 1: Seattle at the Jazz Alley, and every one of the
Speaker 1: shows was packed and they were just really excited, and uh,
Speaker 1: that really makes it easy for us to do a
Speaker 1: good show. Oh Man. Speaking of live performances, he was
Speaker 1: recently released a live album celebrating your fiftieth anniversary as
Speaker 1: a band, fittingly at the Fox Theater in Oakland, Taking
Speaker 1: it all the way back to you start. How did
Speaker 1: this all begin for you? Was there a moment when
Speaker 1: you knew that music was going to be sort of
Speaker 1: a guiding force in your life. Well, I started playing
Speaker 1: when I was fourteen, and I always tell people, you know,
Speaker 1: we we did it completely bad awards. We didn't practice
Speaker 1: for years and years and joined the band. We started
Speaker 1: a band the first day, and then we learned how
Speaker 1: to play. And I remember my my buddy Jody Lopez
Speaker 1: around the corner had gotten the guitar and he knew
Speaker 1: how to play that intro to a Pretty Woman by
Speaker 1: Roy Orbison, No No, No, no, no, no no, and
Speaker 1: my brother could go bad bad ba the drum and
Speaker 1: I squeaked on the saxophone, and my mother walked in
Speaker 1: and said, they're gonna be huge stars. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the band just became my whole life. And
Speaker 1: very shortly after that, my father came to me and
Speaker 1: he said, you have to be the leader of the band. Now.
Speaker 1: My brother was the drummer, and he's ten months older
Speaker 1: than me, and so he was the leader. You know,
Speaker 1: we're kids. The older one's leader. And I said, no,
Speaker 1: Jack's the leader, you know, and he goes, no, he goes,
Speaker 1: you need to be the leader because you you're the
Speaker 1: one that's sort of telling everybody what to do musically,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, and he forced me to be
Speaker 1: a leader, and that changed my life. Now. A lot
Speaker 1: of bands in the mid sixties are heavily influenced by
Speaker 1: the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, but you were different in that.
Speaker 1: From my understanding, you were influenced by another b the Batman.
Speaker 1: That's true. Uh, that wasn't really our idea. We uh,
Speaker 1: we liked rock and roll, you know, we you know,
Speaker 1: for there was when we first started playing, people wore costumes,
Speaker 1: you know, there was Paul Revere and the Raiders, and
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area there was some friends at our
Speaker 1: high school named Peter Wheat and the Breadman. There was
Speaker 1: another band called the Dutch Masters, who you know, dressed
Speaker 1: like those Puritans on the cigar boxes. You know, there
Speaker 1: were all these bands that that dressed certain ways with
Speaker 1: these costumes. And we were called the Extension Five and
Speaker 1: we just played rock and roll, Louie Louie and you know,
Speaker 1: hang on Sloopy and you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: And uh, we had a pretty titled bandon We all
Speaker 1: were you know, sharkskin matador outfits, and uh, we went
Speaker 1: to go audition at this place that it was actually
Speaker 1: a topless bar, but on Sundays they had a team dance,
Speaker 1: and so we went there to audition for the team
Speaker 1: dance and the guy there, there's two of them, Sydney
Speaker 1: Dopps and Jerry Rawlson. I'll never forget. These guys were
Speaker 1: something else. And they came to my mother, who was
Speaker 1: the manager at the time, and they said, we have
Speaker 1: an idea. The Batman Show was just coming out, and
Speaker 1: you know, when it actually came out, it proved to
Speaker 1: be a really bogus sort of, you know. But before
Speaker 1: it came out, the build up was huge. They had
Speaker 1: a big ad campaign, and you know, Superman the series
Speaker 1: was always very popular, and all of a sudden, he
Speaker 1: comes Batman. Everybody thought it was going to be great.
Speaker 1: Plus it was in color, you know, so it was
Speaker 1: gonna be this huge thing. And he said, we want
Speaker 1: to name your kids Batman and the Robins. We'll have
Speaker 1: your drummer dresses Batman and all the other four guys
Speaker 1: dresses rob and we'll put a blue silk thing around
Speaker 1: the drums that looks like a bat cave. And we'll
Speaker 1: put these boxes with lights blinking perforated plastic in front,
Speaker 1: blinking so it looks like this. You know. Yeah, these
Speaker 1: are you know, computers, I guess. And uh so you know,
Speaker 1: my mom also quite a promoter, you know, she goes,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, we'll do that, you know. And they
Speaker 1: said they're going to contact the TV show and say,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to have them on the show.
Speaker 1: So they did that. My mom and uh and Rockell's
Speaker 1: mom got busy sewing you know, outfits, and they contacted
Speaker 1: the TV show and said, you know, we're so excited
Speaker 1: about the new show. That's gonna premiere, you know, the
Speaker 1: next month, and uh, we really earned you to bring
Speaker 1: on the hottest rocket roll band and business Batman and
Speaker 1: the Robins, and they immediately got a letter that said
Speaker 1: cease and desist immediately, and that's it's illegal to use
Speaker 1: the name. And these guys, they didn't even miss a step.
Speaker 1: They took a step back. They went, we'll call it
Speaker 1: the Gotham City Crme Fighters and and that's what they did.
Speaker 1: And and within like two weeks we were playing the
Speaker 1: top places in the Bay Area as the number one
Speaker 1: acts and they build us as don't miss the Gotham
Speaker 1: City Crime Fighters with their fifteen thousand dollar like show.
Speaker 1: Now you gotta stand in the nineteen fifteen thousand dollars
Speaker 1: like you know, a hundred thousand dollars, you know, and
Speaker 1: all we really have with these boxes that we made
Speaker 1: out apply with with this plastic and the lights blinking.
Speaker 1: But people bought it and we were mobbed. I mean
Speaker 1: for about three months we were like the biggest stars
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area. We played uh long Sherman's Hall
Speaker 1: and the Boss and go go at the Hotel Leamington
Speaker 1: all over town, you know, and and then you know
Speaker 1: it all went away soon as the show came out.
Speaker 1: It was bogus, you know, it was really yeah, Adam West,
Speaker 1: the whole thing blew up. You know, we got tired
Speaker 1: of it. Oh man. Well, aside from from Batman, who
Speaker 1: are you? Some of your other early musical influences, I
Speaker 1: mean James Brown, famous Flames come to mind immediately. You know,
Speaker 1: you're born and raised in Detroit. I imagine there must
Speaker 1: have been a lot of soul in those early days. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I lived in Detroit till I was eleven, and my parents, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they loved albums, you know, and they played
Speaker 1: them all the time, and singles. So they had Elvis Presley,
Speaker 1: and they had Bill Dogg At Honkey Talk. They always
Speaker 1: played the Platters. They really big fans of the Platters.
Speaker 1: My mother said, I used to sit on the toilet
Speaker 1: at six years old and sing only You by the Platters.
Speaker 1: You know. I was a really good little mimic. And
Speaker 1: then they listen to Sarah Van and Dinah Washington, a
Speaker 1: lot of Nat King Cole, you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So that's what I listened to as a young boy.
Speaker 1: Then I got out to the Bay Area and I'm
Speaker 1: missing my my friends in Detroit, and that's when all
Speaker 1: those songs started coming out in New York by Carol
Speaker 1: King and Jerry Goffin and Barry Man and Cynthia Wheel,
Speaker 1: you know, the Drifters and uh, the Coasters and uh,
Speaker 1: you know all that I love that sound. You know,
Speaker 1: all those Burt Backrack songs by Jeanne Warwick. You know,
Speaker 1: I love that stuff. And then right about that time
Speaker 1: the Motown thing yet and of course I'm missing my
Speaker 1: friends in Detroit, so the my radio became my friend,
Speaker 1: you know, and I just loved songs and records, and
Speaker 1: so all the Motown artists, Little Anthony and the Imperials.
Speaker 1: Certainly later on James Brown. I remember my my and
Speaker 1: I watching him on TV. And then one night Wayne
Speaker 1: Cochrane came on. He was like the white James Brown
Speaker 1: down in Florida, and we were watching me had this
Speaker 1: big seven team piece band, and you know, we just
Speaker 1: love that stuff. Sam and Dave otis reading really into it,
Speaker 1: you know, before it a few years. One of the
Speaker 1: pre eminent San Francisco promoters and impresarios in the sixties
Speaker 1: and really ever, Bill Graham ran fill More West and
Speaker 1: East at the time, and he signed you to his label.
Speaker 1: How did you first link up with with Bill Graham. Well,
Speaker 1: the first time I met Bill Graham, I was actually
Speaker 1: it was right after the Gotham City Crime Fighters and
Speaker 1: we went there in audition at the original fillm war
Speaker 1: On Gary, Gary, and I remember Bill Graham went to
Speaker 1: my mother and uh and he said, I think your
Speaker 1: boys need to do another year in the garage and
Speaker 1: uh we then, uh, you know, a few year years
Speaker 1: later after I got into soul music and started uh
Speaker 1: we we we had a band called the Motowns, and
Speaker 1: when I met Doc, we wanted to get into the
Speaker 1: Fillmore West and so we knew we'd never get in
Speaker 1: there wearing suits and being called the Motowns. So we
Speaker 1: changed the name the Tower of Power and grew out
Speaker 1: here long and you know, started dressing like everybody else
Speaker 1: was dressing that day during that time, hippies, you know,
Speaker 1: And we got an audition at the Fillmore West and uh,
Speaker 1: by God's grace, you know, Bill Graham Dougas and he
Speaker 1: had just started two new record companies. One was distributed
Speaker 1: to Colombia and the other one distributed to Atlantic, and
Speaker 1: the one in Atlantic was San Francisco Records, and we
Speaker 1: signed the first deal with them, and he was partners
Speaker 1: with a producer named David Rubinson. So David Rubinson and
Speaker 1: Bill they saw us audition and they dug it and
Speaker 1: next thing I know, we were signed to an album deal.
Speaker 1: And you know, everybody was trying to get on those labels.
Speaker 1: I mean everybody in the Bay Area, and people were
Speaker 1: flying in from Texas, from Chicago, from Florida to try
Speaker 1: and get on Bill's label. And we were nobody. We
Speaker 1: were like the little Puddley's you know, nobody knew who
Speaker 1: we were, you know, and but we played good soul music.
Speaker 1: We were good to dance too, and we had these
Speaker 1: originals that we had written and they went yeah, and
Speaker 1: they signed us. And you've often said that that, you know,
Speaker 1: Oakland is your sound. I mean, what is it about
Speaker 1: the Bay Area that really contributed to it, to your
Speaker 1: music and made it what it was? You know, cities
Speaker 1: in general have have when it comes to soul music.
Speaker 1: They have a sound. You know, New Orleans has a
Speaker 1: more a loose kind of bumped to it, and uh
Speaker 1: they're singing is uh much different than say Motown or
Speaker 1: Philly or Chicago or New York In Oakland. It was
Speaker 1: a real urban soul sound and uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but sly Stone was
Speaker 1: a disc jockey in Oakland, you know, and he was
Speaker 1: a big influence on us because he was everybody's favorite DJ.
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody listened to him as a DJ, even
Speaker 1: people that weren't into soul music because he was such
Speaker 1: a personality on the radio. And uh, you know, he
Speaker 1: was first on ks O l K soul radio, then
Speaker 1: he was on k d I A And right about
Speaker 1: the time that I became a soul band, I saw
Speaker 1: his band. Uh and the Stone had a local nightclub
Speaker 1: near my house, and we used to go there Rock
Speaker 1: and I every weekend, and we were you know, they
Speaker 1: had a they had a cyclone fence in the back
Speaker 1: and there was a swimming pool and there we used
Speaker 1: to climb over that fence and go on the back
Speaker 1: door of the club and sneak in and we would
Speaker 1: stay there until like nine in the morning because at
Speaker 1: eight o'clock they served free breakfast and fly in the
Speaker 1: family Stone. They used to play like, you know, four
Speaker 1: sets up till two am, you know, and then take
Speaker 1: a break. And at two am, the bar shutdown. And
Speaker 1: they had this law in Hayward, California, most of the
Speaker 1: Bay Area that you couldn't dance and you couldn't drink
Speaker 1: between two am and six am. So the bands have
Speaker 1: played what's called after hours. They had to put on
Speaker 1: a show, you know, they had they did stick. You know,
Speaker 1: they would like do comedy with teens and like slying them.
Speaker 1: They would go down onto the dance floor and do
Speaker 1: handbone contest between each other and they would start a
Speaker 1: song and everybody would switch over to the next instrument
Speaker 1: and then played for a while and go to the
Speaker 1: until they came all the way around back to their
Speaker 1: own instrument. You know, stuff like that. You had to
Speaker 1: do that to play after hours. We wound up being
Speaker 1: an after hours band for you know, probably three years.
Speaker 1: I mean we played after hours a lot. So Slyde
Speaker 1: was a big influence on us. Not not that we
Speaker 1: wanted to be our music to be like his. We
Speaker 1: wanted our band to be exciting live like he was.
Speaker 1: He had the energy and we doug that. And plus
Speaker 1: he had gregor Rico on drums and that was the
Speaker 1: first real hip folk drummer that he hit the scene,
Speaker 1: and he was really bringing it, you know, and I
Speaker 1: started messing with the beat right around it. Oh, I
Speaker 1: mean slide It's crazy. I mean, like you said, I
Speaker 1: mean what a huge influence in the scene. I mean
Speaker 1: not only with the band and as a DJ. But
Speaker 1: wasn't he was producing bands. Didn't he produce the initial
Speaker 1: incarnation of Jefferson Airplane, the Great Great Society. Didn't he
Speaker 1: produce some of their early stuff? But he produced the
Speaker 1: Bo Brummels. Yeah that's right, laugh laugh, and yeah, just
Speaker 1: a little prod, just little And he also produced Bobby
Speaker 1: Freeman Come On and Swim, which was a huge nationally.
Speaker 1: It's that was him. I didn't know that was him.
Speaker 1: And he played the guitar. Oh that makes so much
Speaker 1: sense because that could I mean that that's a heavy
Speaker 1: record today. I I d J forty five Soul Nights
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I play that all the time. Right,
Speaker 1: It's great. Oh man, I mean how tight were you
Speaker 1: in power of power with with San Francisco bands like
Speaker 1: you know, the ones I just mentioned, like Jefferson Airplane
Speaker 1: or Quicksilver Messenger Service or like were they they kind
Speaker 1: of moved on more of the psyched people by the
Speaker 1: time that you guys are really coming in your own
Speaker 1: you know, they had kind of had their run by
Speaker 1: the time we hit the scene. But over the the
Speaker 1: years we became familiar with all of them because you know,
Speaker 1: the Jefferson Air but they kind of you know, reunited
Speaker 1: and changed your name to the Starship and we played
Speaker 1: on their records and you know, Quicksilver Messenger Service, although
Speaker 1: I didn't know them when, you know, before we got
Speaker 1: signed a bill. After we got sent a billion years later,
Speaker 1: I worked with Huey Lewis in the News and Mario
Speaker 1: Cippolino was the bass player, and his brother John was
Speaker 1: in Quicksilver Messenger Service and so and then David Freiberg
Speaker 1: was the bass player for Quicksilver. He wound up being
Speaker 1: the bass player for the Starship, you know. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got to know all, you know, all the bands
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area, and uh, it was a great
Speaker 1: time to be in the Bay Area. I mean, the
Speaker 1: whole world was looking at the Bay Area. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: that was the scene. I mean, and you know, I
Speaker 1: give all the credit for that to Bill Graham. I mean,
Speaker 1: he literally changed the music industry when he started throwing
Speaker 1: concerts because he tweaked the collective ear of the Bay Area,
Speaker 1: and he did it in New York too, And the
Speaker 1: way he did it was once he got so popular
Speaker 1: that his place was the place to be, and that
Speaker 1: was pretty quickly. He'd have the Grateful Dead. But then
Speaker 1: he'd have you know, uh Howland Wolf and uh Tito Puente,
Speaker 1: you know, and then the next night, I need to
Speaker 1: have Quicksilver and Miles Davis and Russ and Roland Kirk,
Speaker 1: you know, all these. He would have Salmon Dave and
Speaker 1: Nottice Reading and Janis Joplin, you know, all these really
Speaker 1: and everybody. That's when you know, everybody's getting high, ending
Speaker 1: their minds, and all these hippies are there just going, dude,
Speaker 1: this is cool, you know, looking at Otis Redding, you know, well,
Speaker 1: and you guys opening for Aretha, I think it's a
Speaker 1: more East? What more West? What was that experience? Like? Phenomenal? Phenomenal.
Speaker 1: We actually played a gig opening for her one week earlier,
Speaker 1: the weekend before that, at the CBS convention in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: and Doc always tells this story. You know, we we
Speaker 1: always stood at our microphones and played right in the microphones,
Speaker 1: and we we had a big horn section sound. Well,
Speaker 1: she had the Memphis Horns with her, and when she
Speaker 1: played at the convention, you know, they all sat down
Speaker 1: and they're reading parts, and the mics were like this
Speaker 1: far away, and when they got we we we pretty
Speaker 1: much and we brought it pretty good at the CBS convention.
Speaker 1: So when we got to the film or us, we
Speaker 1: noticed they were all other mics now. And then she
Speaker 1: had Bernard Pretty playing drums for her, and uh and
Speaker 1: you know he knew about us, and he really dug us,
Speaker 1: and he used to come. We played this Monday and
Speaker 1: Tuesday night gig in jack London Square called the on Broadway,
Speaker 1: and everybody was coming to city and all the guys
Speaker 1: from Sly cold Blood, Elvin Bishop, Bass, gags Q, Massachila
Speaker 1: used to come to the Santana and Bernard Pretty when
Speaker 1: he was in town, he would come down there, you know,
Speaker 1: so he knew us. And uh so if you listen
Speaker 1: to that record or Wreath Alive at the film or
Speaker 1: on the last night when Ray Charles came to set
Speaker 1: in the Spirit in the Dark, they took the ride
Speaker 1: out really long and at one point he breaks it
Speaker 1: down and Bernard had gotten off the drums. He was
Speaker 1: because the David Gribble come on, you know, and David
Speaker 1: plays the ride out after that, and then Bernard it's
Speaker 1: getting so excited because David Grubin he starts smashing the
Speaker 1: symbols on two and four, you know, and you can
Speaker 1: hear that on the record. You know. It was a great, great,
Speaker 1: great weekend. I remember also, Uh, cold Blood wanted to
Speaker 1: play and uh, but Bill decided we were the ones
Speaker 1: right for the year. But he let them play on
Speaker 1: Saturday night. And so I went there and I'm listening
Speaker 1: to cold Blood and you know, they had stolen our
Speaker 1: trumpet player, Mickchillette, and so he was with them, and
Speaker 1: but he missed us, and he used to come and
Speaker 1: sit in with us all the time, even though he
Speaker 1: was with them. And I remember he came to me
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I want to sit in
Speaker 1: the film or when we played with Aretha, and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, that wouldn't be right because you're with cold
Speaker 1: Blood now, you know, and you're like their secret weapon.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be right for me to use them on
Speaker 1: our set. So I didn't let him sit in with us.
Speaker 1: And uh, I remember I was backstage sitting to them,
Speaker 1: and they're a great band. It's a wonderful, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was back there with a couple of the
Speaker 1: background singers Sweethearts of Soul, and one of the girls
Speaker 1: she's listening. She listen and she goes, they're good, Yeah
Speaker 1: they are, and she does that as good as you
Speaker 1: remember the story I always tell about Aretha. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a real media event. So they had this
Speaker 1: backstage dressing room. It was a big room, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like three bedrooms the size of it, you know,
Speaker 1: but all open, you know, and we're all in there,
Speaker 1: you know. But there was so much media and so
Speaker 1: many you know, groupies and hangers that everybody wanted to
Speaker 1: be in that dressing room, so it was packed, you know,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't even get in. So I was standing
Speaker 1: in the doorway and here comes to a Wretha and
Speaker 1: I'm standing there, and I turned the sideways and a
Speaker 1: lead against the doorjam, and she slides in and she
Speaker 1: faced to face with me, knows two knows, and she goes,
Speaker 1: Tower Pout my favorite band, and I just melted. That's
Speaker 1: one of my most favorite memories of all two. I
Speaker 1: would ride that for the rest of my life. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Wow, God I mean just so many memories.
Speaker 1: I mean, I you you mentioned earlier about sort of
Speaker 1: making the jump from from playing covers to to write
Speaker 1: in your own material. How did that come to pass?
Speaker 1: How did you start writing your own music? And give
Speaker 1: all the credit to Doc. My thing as the band
Speaker 1: leader of the band called the Mo Towns was I
Speaker 1: messed with the beat, and I messed with the horn arrangements,
Speaker 1: and I messed with the vocal arrangements. So I would
Speaker 1: make up these weird beats. We would be doing ninety
Speaker 1: nine and a half by Wilson Pickett. But I didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it with the beat for the record,
Speaker 1: you know, Cal you know. I started to make up
Speaker 1: a beat like dog, and I would teach my brother
Speaker 1: the beat, you know, we would rehearse andhearsement. I get
Speaker 1: him to the beat, and then I make up a
Speaker 1: baseline doogle doogle goo goo good, doogle goo good. I
Speaker 1: teach that to Rocco, and I find a part of
Speaker 1: the guitar that you know, Jody could do that would
Speaker 1: go in and out, you know, and uh, and then
Speaker 1: I changed the horn parts a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: not a lot, but a little bit, you know, And
Speaker 1: that was what I did. And one day Doc comes
Speaker 1: to me after I hired him and he'd been in
Speaker 1: the band for a little bit and we were sounded good,
Speaker 1: you know, and he says, you know, what you're doing
Speaker 1: with the song is amazing, you know he is, but
Speaker 1: why are we doing him to everybody else's songs? Why
Speaker 1: don't we run our own? And I was telling people,
Speaker 1: I don't know that I ever would have thought about that.
Speaker 1: That thought never occurred to me. I was totally happy
Speaker 1: doing what I was doing, you know. But I looked
Speaker 1: at me, my go we could try that, you know,
Speaker 1: And so I went over to his apartment, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of days later, and uh, the first song
Speaker 1: we wrote, You're Still a young Man still to this day,
Speaker 1: one of the biggest turns we ever wrote, and that
Speaker 1: was that I had heard a story that that was
Speaker 1: semi autobiographical. Is that is that true? Well? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: had a I was eighteen and I had a girlfriend
Speaker 1: that was twenty four years old, and she was gorgeous,
Speaker 1: gorgeous girl, and we we had this tord love affair.
Speaker 1: And when she had this ex boyfriend and she wounded
Speaker 1: up leaving to go back with the guy, and he
Speaker 1: was kind of abusive. He was a Vietnam bed and
Speaker 1: he was kind of abusive. But she had this thing
Speaker 1: for me. She she left me to go back to
Speaker 1: him and broke my heart. I mean, I was devastating,
Speaker 1: you know, young, you know, and uh, but then she
Speaker 1: came back to me, you know, and uh, when she
Speaker 1: first broke up with me, she would always say, you know,
Speaker 1: you need to hang out with girls your own age.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, I'm told for you. You You know,
Speaker 1: you know you're too young to be with a woman
Speaker 1: my age. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to be with you. So when we sat
Speaker 1: down to write You're Still in a Man, first we
Speaker 1: wrote the intro. We had this really great trumpet player,
Speaker 1: Michel lead. And there was this song by the Impressions
Speaker 1: called My Woman's Love that started with this beautiful intro
Speaker 1: called it was a really high trumpet b Da da
Speaker 1: da da dad. Uh. We loved it, you know, And
Speaker 1: so the first thing Doc and me said, we got
Speaker 1: to write a trumpet intro. So we wrote the intro
Speaker 1: You're Still in Man. And then I said, so we
Speaker 1: gotta tell us, well, how about a a guy is
Speaker 1: you know, these girls are this girl is telling him,
Speaker 1: you're too young, you know, don't waste your time with me,
Speaker 1: and the guy's pleading his case. No, no, I'm not
Speaker 1: too young. I love you, you know. And that was
Speaker 1: basic enough me and this girl, Sharon Martin, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: we just started writing down on my knees, hard in hand.
Speaker 1: I was accused of being too young, but I'm not
Speaker 1: too young. Can't you understand. I think like a man,
Speaker 1: you're still a young man. The girls, you know, of course,
Speaker 1: we didn't have no girls, so we sing background. Did
Speaker 1: she ever know that that was about her? No? But she,
Speaker 1: you know, I told her. She came back to me
Speaker 1: and then broke up with me again, and the second
Speaker 1: time I kind of got over it, and then she
Speaker 1: came back a third time, and by then we had become,
Speaker 1: you know, we had some notoriety by that power. She
Speaker 1: was under the impression that I wrote this other song,
Speaker 1: Sparkling in the Sandford because somebody said. I think somebody
Speaker 1: told her, you know that song it's about you, then,
Speaker 1: you know, But she thought it was this other one,
Speaker 1: the song with the flute, Sparkling in the sand, which
Speaker 1: was another love song, but that wasn't really written for her,
Speaker 1: I gotta ask about what is hip? What is the
Speaker 1: genesis of that track? And probably I would imagine, uh,
Speaker 1: the the one that that gets people on their feet
Speaker 1: the most that you show is just because it's such
Speaker 1: a classic. Yeah, I mean it definitely is. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we have to play it. We'll get lynched if we
Speaker 1: don't play what is It? And we generally closed the
Speaker 1: show with it, and there was Docs once again to
Speaker 1: give the credit to Doc. You know, he's really lyrically
Speaker 1: the clever lyricist. I kind of come up with clever
Speaker 1: lyrics here and there. He sort of lives by them,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, he came to me and he said,
Speaker 1: I want to write a song called what is Hip?
Speaker 1: And I go, what is hip? What does that mean?
Speaker 1: He goes, well, you know what's hip today? Tomorrow will
Speaker 1: be past you know. I okay. And so we decided
Speaker 1: to write it, and then we invited David Garibaldi to
Speaker 1: come and join us in the writing process, and mainly
Speaker 1: Doc and I came up with the chords, and you know,
Speaker 1: him and I worked out the lyrics on the verses. Uh.
Speaker 1: But Dave is the one that after we had written it,
Speaker 1: he was in the rehearsal. Hall uh. They used to jam.
Speaker 1: We would rehearse from eleven to five. But then these
Speaker 1: guys from Santana would come over, you know at the
Speaker 1: basse player Deeggie Rosher was really good and him and
Speaker 1: David would jam. And there was a song called I'm
Speaker 1: Going Down by Freddie King and it had this baseline
Speaker 1: doo doo googogle. You know, it was really cool, you know,
Speaker 1: and so they were jamming on that, and then David,
Speaker 1: as he's prone to do, he always like you come
Speaker 1: up with the beat, and then he goes, you know,
Speaker 1: we could do this, you know, and so he put
Speaker 1: this hit in there, a sixteen for one do do
Speaker 1: do do? You know? And then then he added two
Speaker 1: more bob, you know, and so he comes in he says, man,
Speaker 1: we were me and Deugie were jamming last night. We
Speaker 1: were jamming on that groove from them going down is
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we could use that for what it
Speaker 1: is hip. You know. They played it for me kidding
Speaker 1: that work perfect, I saying right over it it fit perfectly.
Speaker 1: And then Rockoll of course on the base, he took
Speaker 1: it to another level on the base. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's like an earthquake. I mean, that's that's that's
Speaker 1: a song you gotta listen to on good speakers. It's
Speaker 1: like you gotta feel that track. Oh man. I mean
Speaker 1: there's so many things, so many incredible songs. I think
Speaker 1: I have this right, I I you're I would imagine
Speaker 1: you're one of the few people who's worked with both
Speaker 1: Quincy Jones and George Martin. Uh two. I mean I'm
Speaker 1: hard pressed to name more famous producers in history. What
Speaker 1: were those experiences like? I mean, George Martin, I'm a
Speaker 1: huge Beatles fans I was around. I imagine when he
Speaker 1: was producing UM America. What what was he like in
Speaker 1: the studio? Well, we did UM What was the Beatles movie?
Speaker 1: Uh oh, Sergeant Pepper Sergeant Pepper's Only Heartscoued Band. Yes,
Speaker 1: So they made the movie starring Peter Frampton, and he
Speaker 1: brought in our horn section and some other horn players,
Speaker 1: very good, Chuck Finley, Bill Watress, you know, and we
Speaker 1: did like three or four days of recording, a lot
Speaker 1: of recording. And he was a perfect gentleman always, but
Speaker 1: he was very specific about what he wanted, you know,
Speaker 1: and and he had a way of just really respectfully
Speaker 1: letting you know, know right here we needed or you know,
Speaker 1: I want you to check the tuning here right there
Speaker 1: that notes a little short and I need the full
Speaker 1: length on it. He was he was very musically, very knowledgeable,
Speaker 1: and very pacific. And I we love that. We we
Speaker 1: don't like him when we're in the you know, in
Speaker 1: the studio and the producer goes. You know, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be like you know when the rose pedals that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you know, that makes do we like
Speaker 1: people that talk to music, you know. And he was
Speaker 1: a real musician. And then you know, we did that
Speaker 1: and it was great. And then a few years later
Speaker 1: he was producing the band America and he was up
Speaker 1: at our studio that we recorded at and Soaslito the
Speaker 1: record plans, and he called us again and uh and
Speaker 1: and once again same thing. Real gentlemen, but respectfully, very
Speaker 1: specific about what he wanted, and he just brought it
Speaker 1: out of I mean, you can see why he was
Speaker 1: such a great producer, you know. And I mean Quincy
Speaker 1: must have been cool for you because all those stories
Speaker 1: about you know, Saravan and swinging Miss d and folks
Speaker 1: like that, I mean, folks you grew up with that
Speaker 1: must have been a really nice whole circle moments for
Speaker 1: all your influences. Yeah, we knew Quincy because we toured
Speaker 1: with him when he had he had a hit record
Speaker 1: called Body Heat, and he brought out a really hot
Speaker 1: band and we actually he had a trumpet player named
Speaker 1: Bill Lamb that used to come sitting with us. Him
Speaker 1: and Mick Gillette together was phenomenal. But he also had
Speaker 1: this guitar and basse player named Johnson, you know, Lewis
Speaker 1: Johnson and his brother and he said, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do a record on these guys, and I want you
Speaker 1: guys to be on it because he really dug us.
Speaker 1: I mean every night you know, we were bringing in
Speaker 1: he he just dug the band a lot. So we're
Speaker 1: all friendly, you know, and uh, sure enough, you know
Speaker 1: a few months later, he calls us into the studio
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles and, uh, you know, we're doing the
Speaker 1: tracks and they sound great. You know, we're kind of
Speaker 1: taking a little break and we're complimenting him on it.
Speaker 1: He goes, this thing is gonna go go, you know immediately,
Speaker 1: you know, and mind you no, he knew who the
Speaker 1: brothers Johnson worked. You know, they had done one tour
Speaker 1: with Quincy Jones. That's it so but that's how sure
Speaker 1: of it he was. And he started talking about all
Speaker 1: the gold records we had blah blah blah, and we
Speaker 1: didn't have any gold records, you know. And he goes,
Speaker 1: what do you mean you don't have any gold records? Go,
Speaker 1: I don't know. We never got any, you know. And
Speaker 1: he says, are you kidding me? Warner Brothers didn't send
Speaker 1: you gold records for the Tower of Power albums or
Speaker 1: back to Oakland and you I'm shocked by that. And
Speaker 1: I go, now, we never got one, and he goes, uh,
Speaker 1: well you're getting one for this one. This is going gold,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna get one. It's sure enough. And a
Speaker 1: couple of months later, delivered to my door gold record,
Speaker 1: you know, And I still haven't. Oh that is a
Speaker 1: great the one with the Sugar Otis tracks Strawberry Letter
Speaker 1: twenty three. Oh, that is as a great record. We
Speaker 1: actually played on that song. But I don't think he
Speaker 1: put me. I think he took the horns off age.
Speaker 1: It's funny. Before I knew I was talking to you,
Speaker 1: I was watching or listening on YouTube to you and
Speaker 1: the Stones at Candlestick Park almost exactly forty years ago
Speaker 1: in October of eighty one. Uh, doing Satisfaction at the end.
Speaker 1: It's on YouTube, and it just sounded so good. And
Speaker 1: this is this is actually before I know I was
Speaker 1: talking to you. I just wanted to hear it because
Speaker 1: it's such a legendary show. What are your memories of
Speaker 1: that night at Candlestick Park? I didn't know that was
Speaker 1: on YouTube. I gotta watch. Yeah, that was phenomenal, you know.
Speaker 1: Um Bill Graham was the one that promoted not only
Speaker 1: that tour, but several of their tours at that time.
Speaker 1: And uh, and he wanted us to play with the Stones.
Speaker 1: But he came to me and he said, you know,
Speaker 1: with the Rolling Stones, you can't go to them and
Speaker 1: say I would like you to have these guys play
Speaker 1: with you. You know, is it just it can't be done.
Speaker 1: They have to ask you. And he said, so I'm
Speaker 1: going to make sure that you are in their presence
Speaker 1: for the next few weeks. And uh, we did a
Speaker 1: gig with we were playing with Heart at the time,
Speaker 1: the horn sections and they were opening for the Stones
Speaker 1: and they did it in Denver and Bills Bill said,
Speaker 1: I want you to come to the hospitality suite after
Speaker 1: the show in the hotel and bring your horns, but
Speaker 1: don't bring them in. And so we go okay, and
Speaker 1: you know, and then we get there. We're in this hospitalize.
Speaker 1: I mean there's fine wines and all this great food,
Speaker 1: you know, records, supersound system and records they're playing, and
Speaker 1: then before we know it, here comes Mick Jagger and
Speaker 1: he comes in and starts talking. And I remember he
Speaker 1: was really into Prince. Prince had just come up, and
Speaker 1: we knew who Prince was because he recorded his first
Speaker 1: record across the hall from us and saw the leto.
Speaker 1: So he's asking me and do you know Prince you know?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, we do. Actually, you know, he
Speaker 1: was across all he actually took our second engineer and uh.
Speaker 1: And he starts talking about that and we're getting along
Speaker 1: and Bills over there going oh this is going good,
Speaker 1: you know, and he says, uh, hey, he goes the
Speaker 1: guys have their horns because uh, and he tells our
Speaker 1: road he was with us, because uh, why don't you
Speaker 1: go get the horns bring him up. I don't know
Speaker 1: what he's thinking. Where we're gonna play the horns in
Speaker 1: the hospitality sleep and uh. So he sends my roadie
Speaker 1: down and we're all kind of feeling kind of awkward.
Speaker 1: The next thing, we know, Mixed sort of stops talking
Speaker 1: and he turns around and he kind of dances out
Speaker 1: of the room backwards, and he was gone. And Bill goes, ah,
Speaker 1: and messed up. I shouldn't have done that. You know.
Speaker 1: We're like, what what what happened? And he goes that
Speaker 1: that didn't feel right to him, you know, so when
Speaker 1: I said to get the horns, that was I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have done it. And so then he flew me to
Speaker 1: San Diego, to Los Angeles and then finally and I'm
Speaker 1: and I'm hanging out, you know, where the Rolling Stones are,
Speaker 1: you know, and they're completely ignoring me. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not a real I'm not a real uh you know,
Speaker 1: social person in terms of, you know, hey man, let's party,
Speaker 1: you know kind of thing. I'm just hanging out, you know.
Speaker 1: And of course, so they're there, you know, because what
Speaker 1: he told me was he said, you have to understand
Speaker 1: I think if you were like, you know, your face
Speaker 1: was the most recognizable face in the entire world. Because
Speaker 1: that's what these guys deal with on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: And he goes so it has to be their idea
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah, and I'm like, yeah, whatever, and
Speaker 1: so I'm you know, Denvers and Diegos Angeles. Finally we
Speaker 1: get to the Bay Area and uh, you know, I'm tired.
Speaker 1: I've been hanging out nobody's asking me to do so,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm kind of burnt out. And then but
Speaker 1: I go to Candlestick Park and Bills like, you know,
Speaker 1: he has to talk with Mick Jaggers. Look, you know,
Speaker 1: don't you get it. I keep putting this guy in
Speaker 1: your presence because I want the horns to play with
Speaker 1: you that the greatest horn section in the world, you know,
Speaker 1: and make a well yes, certainly, you know. And so
Speaker 1: we're supposed to play Satisfaction and this is the first
Speaker 1: night and h Keith Keith Richards wasn't there. And finally
Speaker 1: he shows up late and he's sick, probably dopes it,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, it doesn't feel good. And he
Speaker 1: comes in and we're in there, you know, um getting
Speaker 1: ready and he's what's this, you know, and make a
Speaker 1: top hard you're going to play with just not tonight,
Speaker 1: And they canceled us and that was it for me.
Speaker 1: That was a start book. I said, I'm out of here,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, but Doc, Doc and Keith Richards
Speaker 1: they got along pretty good. And uh, Doc was devastated
Speaker 1: because we were ready to go on, you know. And
Speaker 1: so after the show, Bill Graham goes up to Keith
Speaker 1: Richards because he knows that he likes Doc, and he goes, man,
Speaker 1: I can't believe you did that, you know, and Keep
Speaker 1: goes what and he says, you devastated that poor Gray
Speaker 1: goes who you know, because Doc, because they were gonna
Speaker 1: play man, it's a big deal. You know, it's wrong.
Speaker 1: We'll do it tomorrow, you know. And so I wasn't there.
Speaker 1: I had gone home when I was staying with my
Speaker 1: father in law, and by then I'm trashed. Man, I'm done.
Speaker 1: And I woke up the next morning. I remember my
Speaker 1: father going, aren't you going to the stadium? I said, now,
Speaker 1: heck with that, and I'm done. You know, I think
Speaker 1: you should go. And so you got a cab went there.
Speaker 1: And when I drive up in the cab, Bill Graham
Speaker 1: is in there out in the park waiting for me
Speaker 1: to get it in there they were rehearsing, and I
Speaker 1: go into this trailer and the guys all got their
Speaker 1: horns out and I'm getting my horn out and Keith
Speaker 1: Richards looks at me and he goes, we're doing satisfaction.
Speaker 1: Do you know the otis redding parts? You know? I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. You know, we played this song a
Speaker 1: million times, right, and so we started working it up
Speaker 1: and they like it, so it's all it's all rage.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go on for the uncle. So they play
Speaker 1: their set and they have a like a little rolling
Speaker 1: riser with five mikes for us, and we're behind this
Speaker 1: scream you know where you can't see us, but we
Speaker 1: can sort of see through it to the state, and
Speaker 1: they're killing it, you know. And then the said ends
Speaker 1: and they come off and we're getting already and Keith
Speaker 1: Richards goes on to our riser and passes out. And
Speaker 1: the next thing I know, uh, Bill Graham's on top
Speaker 1: of him and funct him at the heart and he's
Speaker 1: giving him up the mouth and he is not coming
Speaker 1: to and I'm like, I can't even believe this. After
Speaker 1: all this, this guy's gonna did die right here. And
Speaker 1: the next thing I know, this guy comes up with
Speaker 1: this black bag. It's obviously there doctor and shoots them
Speaker 1: up with something than Keith Richards jumps up. He goes
Speaker 1: Let's rock and they starts settisfaction, you know. And then
Speaker 1: as soon as the beat kicks and we start going
Speaker 1: Papa but that but little that, you know, we're nailing it.
Speaker 1: And I remember that we got to the rideout and
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger is loving it and he keeps looking at
Speaker 1: us and they're going so he's stretching out the ride up. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, in a soul band, you know, when the
Speaker 1: ride is really kicking, the lead trumple player takes it
Speaker 1: up and acted so Nick Gillette and he had great range,
Speaker 1: you know, boom, he takes it up up. He's blood
Speaker 1: and you know and mix less loving and I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger is loving it more and more and more.
Speaker 1: So he's making it go longer and longer. He wants
Speaker 1: getting redder and redder, you know, but he's making every note.
Speaker 1: He's burning it and then finding the ends the tune
Speaker 1: we had the last chord and Mick Jagger goes top
Speaker 1: our horns and we're in San Francisco. They knew us
Speaker 1: place perserved, you know, and uh, Bill Graham jumps on
Speaker 1: my back. He's going you guys are the greatest words
Speaker 1: of the world. He's going crazy. It was the most
Speaker 1: incredible moment. Man, it's the adrenaline was unbelievable. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: I can I can only imagine. I mean, I would have.
Speaker 1: I was. One of my questions was I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you He's there a moment Of all the places
Speaker 1: you play, people you played with, it is one that
Speaker 1: stands out. But I imagine that's probably number one on
Speaker 1: the list if I were to guess. We had a
Speaker 1: lot of good moments, but that was one of the best.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. I mean, it's such an incredible career.
Speaker 1: I mean, and just just your sound is so I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so distinct, that's so you. I mean, you've never
Speaker 1: it's it's never had the change because it's perfect in
Speaker 1: my opinion. I mean, I wanted to ask you me.
Speaker 1: I know, you get asked to play uh so many
Speaker 1: session dates with so many different bands, and I know
Speaker 1: that a crucial component of your sort of agreeing to
Speaker 1: do it is to use your own arranger. And I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you more about that, like, how do
Speaker 1: how does that factor into as somebody who loves music
Speaker 1: like I do, but and messes around on instruments. But
Speaker 1: it is not a guy in the wool musician would
Speaker 1: never call myself that. I want to know more about
Speaker 1: the kind of role that that your ranger plays and
Speaker 1: helping craft your your sound as a band. It's really
Speaker 1: integral when you're doing session work for other artists that
Speaker 1: you have in mind the fact that it's about the artist.
Speaker 1: It's not about your orange or your arrangement. It's about
Speaker 1: the artist. So whatever you put on that recording needs
Speaker 1: to not get in the way. You know, whatever the
Speaker 1: hook of the song is, you can't step on it
Speaker 1: with the horn parts. If there's an incredible lead vocalist,
Speaker 1: you don't step all over that vocal with your horn parts.
Speaker 1: You know. If there's all these rock and roll bands
Speaker 1: have these group down on not you know, you don't
Speaker 1: step on that with horns because when you go to mix,
Speaker 1: you know, you're trying to get the horns to STIs
Speaker 1: stand out, But the guitar, who is the main guy
Speaker 1: in the band, is going so you gotta make sure
Speaker 1: he's hurt. And what you do, you can't hear the
Speaker 1: horns at all, So you have to pick your spots
Speaker 1: really carefully. And we had our horn ranger was Greg
Speaker 1: Adams for about twenty five years, and he got that
Speaker 1: way of arranging down to a science. You know. He
Speaker 1: were really sparse arrangements when we did rock and roll bands,
Speaker 1: you know. And but when we played it was during
Speaker 1: the whole, you know, maybe right on the one or
Speaker 1: you know, bat I had that whatever it was, it
Speaker 1: was in the hole and they could mix it really
Speaker 1: loud without covering up all the stars of the show,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's really the key. And what I
Speaker 1: find is when when I don't insist on having our arrangers,
Speaker 1: we get hooked up with other people that don't realize that.
Speaker 1: And for some reason, people seem to think that, especially
Speaker 1: rock and roll people. They seem to think, if you
Speaker 1: got sacks as well, you want to play low low
Speaker 1: fish doo doo doo dude. You know. But as I said,
Speaker 1: you've got three guitar players doing that, you know, so
Speaker 1: why would you do that? You know? And we had that.
Speaker 1: That situation happened on an Aerosmith record. Just push play.
Speaker 1: If you listen to that recording, the song that we're on,
Speaker 1: it's not existent, you know. And that's because they insisted
Speaker 1: on using this arrange. I remember I told him, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, it really works better if we do the arrangement. No. No,
Speaker 1: our friend doesn't you know, he's arranged for Barbara Stress
Speaker 1: and he's really a musician. But I go, Okay, when
Speaker 1: are we gonna tell him? No, it's a Erros you know.
Speaker 1: And uh, but you know, the arrangement just it wasn't
Speaker 1: the type of arrangement that we do, and so when
Speaker 1: they went to mix it, I couldn't really bring it up.
Speaker 1: You know, this as though we're not on the record,
Speaker 1: so we get the credit. You read the back of
Speaker 1: the album Tower Power Horns, You're like, great, where are they?
Speaker 1: You know? How about you? When you're writing, is this
Speaker 1: something that you do every day or is it something
Speaker 1: that really you have to be moved to do? Doc
Speaker 1: writes every day. Doc carries a notebook with He's very passionate, right.
Speaker 1: I I've always And it's interesting because you know, I
Speaker 1: really make most of my money from my writing, you know,
Speaker 1: but I put very little time into it. But you know,
Speaker 1: like like we we had the pandemic, and uh, I
Speaker 1: make appointments for people, you know, I have a few
Speaker 1: people are write with, and sometimes I want to want
Speaker 1: to write with somebody new, and I'll just say, you know,
Speaker 1: how you doing Tuesday at eleven? You know, show up
Speaker 1: and we write a song. In the old days, you know,
Speaker 1: me and Doc lived together, and you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of drug and alcohol use, so you're partying and
Speaker 1: getting high. It's like, that's right, we start to write,
Speaker 1: you know, but you know, now everybody's sober. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll got families, I'll got homes, and so we will
Speaker 1: make appointments. You know, well, show up and h We
Speaker 1: always pray first, you know, that's the first thing we do.
Speaker 1: And then we talk a little bit, you know, uh
Speaker 1: what's going on? You know, I just kind of talk
Speaker 1: and then if anybody's got a particular idea, I might
Speaker 1: have a rhythm idea or a hook. Doc might have
Speaker 1: a lyrical idea. You know, I might have a court progression,
Speaker 1: or we'll just I'll just sort of start noodling around
Speaker 1: and oh that's cool. You know, It's like it's like fishing.
Speaker 1: You know, once you get a bite, then you really
Speaker 1: did know. If if it's the book, then you want
Speaker 1: to write a story in the first verse that leads
Speaker 1: to it, and then after the first start, you want
Speaker 1: to develop that story further in the second verse, and then,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you do the hook again, or maybe
Speaker 1: you take a left turn to do what's called the bridge,
Speaker 1: you know. And the bridge could be a musical bridge,
Speaker 1: it could be a lyrical bridge. It could change chords completely,
Speaker 1: or it could be the same chord, put a little
Speaker 1: guitar thing over it, you know, but something that separates
Speaker 1: that does sort of a left turn, and then back
Speaker 1: to the hook or maybe half of a verse where
Speaker 1: you developed the story a little more, even maybe with
Speaker 1: a little extension on it, go to the hook and
Speaker 1: then build the writer. This is probably a loaded question,
Speaker 1: but do you think that songwriting is something that anyone
Speaker 1: can do or is it something that you kind of
Speaker 1: have to be born with in some ways? Well, I
Speaker 1: don't know that you have to be born with it,
Speaker 1: but no, it's not something anybody can do. That's what
Speaker 1: I I I'm good. I feel a little better because
Speaker 1: I've I've I've played a number of instruments since i
Speaker 1: was a young teenager, and I've never been able to
Speaker 1: write a song in my whole life. Try as I might,
Speaker 1: it's never been something that uh happens to me to
Speaker 1: write with people. And although during the pandemic, I wrote
Speaker 1: a few songs by myself and that that was the
Speaker 1: first I think. I just I like to bounce off
Speaker 1: of people, you know. To me, it's just easier. Well
Speaker 1: that was I was gonna ask you, are these songs
Speaker 1: that you've been working on during the pandemic, are they
Speaker 1: there a new album on the way or well I
Speaker 1: want to do uh. You know, the last time we recorded, uh,
Speaker 1: besides the live thing, we did two albums Soul Side
Speaker 1: of Town, and then one came out called Step Up
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, and we recorded all that material at once.
Speaker 1: So I worked on it for like many years, you know,
Speaker 1: and it was twenty eight songs, you know. So that's
Speaker 1: a big project. But I mean it really paid off,
Speaker 1: you know, and UH had a coesiveness. We had two
Speaker 1: really great products with some bonus tracks that we could
Speaker 1: use for Japan or Europe. It just worked out really well.
Speaker 1: So I'd like to do the same thing, record two albums,
Speaker 1: and I want to record a Christian album, you know.
Speaker 1: I I became a Christian in two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: and as a Christian, I started listening to gospel praise music,
Speaker 1: and it's my opinion that all the great soul singers
Speaker 1: are in the church. I'm a fan of Orlanda Adams,
Speaker 1: Dietrich Hadden. I just love all these uh gospel praise
Speaker 1: singers and their productions. Really contemporary, you know, Fred Hammond, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I want to do a Christian
Speaker 1: album and a secular album, but I want to record
Speaker 1: them all at once. Really cool. So that's the plan
Speaker 1: right now at tentative, you know. But meanwhile, everybody's writing.
Speaker 1: I've written a bunch docs, always writing, the guys right,
Speaker 1: and when it's time to make the record, we'll listen
Speaker 1: to everything, choose some songs and get don't know, I know,
Speaker 1: you just got off the road, I think a matter
Speaker 1: of days ago, But any any plans for heading back
Speaker 1: out there soon? We were you know, we we We're
Speaker 1: not a band that says I'm going on tour and
Speaker 1: then you're you're off for a few months. We just
Speaker 1: got a model time. So we did our first gig
Speaker 1: at the Hollywood Bowl in August eight, and then we
Speaker 1: flew across country. We had a couple of days off.
Speaker 1: We flew across country and we did a little East
Speaker 1: coast northeast run and then we came back and then
Speaker 1: we went to the Bay Area, did some days, came back,
Speaker 1: you know, so we kind of we do this little.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there are three weeks, sometimes you're five days. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's a weekend. You know. Right now, I don't have
Speaker 1: a gig for almost three weeks and then I go
Speaker 1: out for I think six days. And that's how we
Speaker 1: do it. We're just always in and out. And it's
Speaker 1: usually two hundred days a year we're away from home.
Speaker 1: And you know that that's not all gigs. It's travel
Speaker 1: days and days off on the road. But at least
Speaker 1: at least a hundred seventy gigs that still loving it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah people you know. Uh, I'm
Speaker 1: also in the recovery community, you know, so a lot
Speaker 1: of these people are the meetings that I attend. They
Speaker 1: know what I do now, you know. And there was like, so, so,
Speaker 1: how do it feel it feel good to get back? Yes,
Speaker 1: it feels really cometable because we got back together. We
Speaker 1: did we did the Hollywood Bowl and went up to
Speaker 1: the East coasts and we were we located ourselves in Boston.
Speaker 1: We went up to New Hampshire, did two gigs in
Speaker 1: Boston and then went down to our Virginia and I
Speaker 1: think it was about three days in. We were all
Speaker 1: hanging out and uh, and Garibaldi goes, man, Yes, it's
Speaker 1: amazing the way it comes back so quick, you know.
Speaker 1: And we had rehearsed a couple of couple of days,
Speaker 1: you know, but it's just right now. It just feels
Speaker 1: so in the pocket. And uh, you know, I have
Speaker 1: a great group of guys. I mean we are truly
Speaker 1: friends and brothers, and uh, we support each other and
Speaker 1: we miss each other, you know. So it's always great
Speaker 1: to get back out there and got a great crew,
Speaker 1: have great management. After all these years, you know, I've
Speaker 1: I've learned how to hire well. I could say that again. Absolutely, Oh, Amelia,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I don't want to take up
Speaker 1: too much more of your time, but it has been
Speaker 1: such a joy and a pleasure talking to you. I
Speaker 1: really and an honor he is in the ad. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for your time today and your music.
Speaker 1: It really means a lot to me. Thank you ur
Speaker 1: news my pleasure. We hope you enjoyed this episode of
Speaker 1: Inside the Studio, a production of i heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows,
Speaker 1: check out the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.