Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working
Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.
Speaker 1: It was ten years ago that grand View Management was
Speaker 1: formed to focus on a client list of high end
Speaker 1: writers and producers. Since then, the biz has been through
Speaker 1: a lot, to say the least, and the current day
Speaker 1: and age is no exception, as the TV business in
Speaker 1: particular navigates what you might call the post peak TV era.
Speaker 1: To help illuminate the road ahead for the industry, I've
Speaker 1: enlisted grand View principles Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver. We'll
Speaker 1: talk with them in just a moment. And we're back
Speaker 1: with Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver of the management team Grandview,
Speaker 1: and they've got a client list filled with writers and
Speaker 1: producers of hit movies and TV shows like House of
Speaker 1: the Dragon, Ozark Loki. Thanks for being with me today, guys.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having us. Hey, Ed, thanks for
Speaker 2: having us.
Speaker 1: So set the scene for me, if you will. As
Speaker 1: we speak here in late February in Los Angeles. We've
Speaker 1: gotten past the strikes. The streaming wars are a blaze,
Speaker 1: but you've been in the business quite a while on
Speaker 1: the chaos to calm spectrum here in Hollywood? Where do
Speaker 1: things sit right now? Matt? Why don't you start us off?
Speaker 2: Well, where do you thinks that right now?
Speaker 3: You know, coming out of the strike, I think there's
Speaker 3: a lot of people who are concerned looking at where
Speaker 3: peak TV is going. There's been many indications that it
Speaker 3: is going down, and that the many the amount of
Speaker 3: shows that were being made in the five to six
Speaker 3: hundred rage are going to be cut almost in half.
Speaker 3: And at the same time, the movie business is trying
Speaker 3: to figure out ways to get back to a better
Speaker 3: box office from the year's past, and so there were
Speaker 3: people concerned out there that all said, I think from
Speaker 3: our viewpoint, we're pretty optimistic about the opportunities for our
Speaker 3: clients in this changing landscape and feel very fortunate to
Speaker 3: represent some extremely talented people in writers and directors and
Speaker 3: so on, and feel that the opportunity is ripe for
Speaker 3: them to continue to be able to produce content at
Speaker 3: the highest level.
Speaker 1: All right, So, you know, right off the bat, though,
Speaker 1: I would think the simplistic take would be, now, wait
Speaker 1: a second, you just did some scary math because less
Speaker 1: product to be made means less opportunity for your clients.
Speaker 1: So you know why, you know, Jeff, why be optimistic?
Speaker 4: Well, listen, we were both in the business in two
Speaker 4: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, right, Matt and
Speaker 4: I started as assistants together at CIA. We met each
Speaker 4: other my first day his third week. And you know,
Speaker 4: two thousand and six felt like a great time, and
Speaker 4: suddenly you had a strike and then you had a
Speaker 4: financial meltdown. And we were lucky enough at that moment
Speaker 4: to be young in the business. Matt was on aging
Speaker 4: track at CIA and I was working as an executive.
Speaker 2: But we really felt it right.
Speaker 4: We felt the business screeched to a halt, and then
Speaker 4: we felt this existential crisis in two thousand and eight
Speaker 4: of what's going to happen. I remember going up for
Speaker 4: a job at Paramount to be a CE in two
Speaker 4: thousand and nine, and I was one of three hundred
Speaker 4: qualified candidates for that job. So to your point, Andrew, right,
Speaker 4: less opportunity is really scary. That said, we're in a
Speaker 4: business of entrepreneurs and we're in a business of creatives,
Speaker 4: and if you use those two together, you get storytellers
Speaker 4: of the highest level who figure out a way to
Speaker 4: get their stories told. So we're maybe uniquely confident in
Speaker 4: the ability of our clients to get their stories out
Speaker 4: there in the right way. So they're going to be
Speaker 4: less when writing assignments. We've seen that there's going to
Speaker 4: be less slots. But three months ago, I think people
Speaker 4: were looking at FX and Hulu and saying are they
Speaker 4: going to be bringing in new development? And right now,
Speaker 4: you know, you've just had John Langraf, who we have
Speaker 4: a ton of respect for in business with talk about
Speaker 4: wanting new shows. Our friends at Hulu now want new shows,
Speaker 4: so we're starting to see a rebound already. It's always
Speaker 4: a scary moment when when you know supply and demand
Speaker 4: get get a little bit screwed up. But if you're
Speaker 4: the kind of artists who just waits for books to
Speaker 4: come in your way or assignments to come in your way.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's time to rethink how you do things.
Speaker 4: But if you're the kind of artist that has a
Speaker 4: vision and has stories to tell, then we think you're
Speaker 4: as well suited now as you were before.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I guess when you've got clients, like to
Speaker 1: name a few of your people, you know, Ryan Condall
Speaker 1: who is the showrunner on House of the Dragon. And
Speaker 1: you've got Chris Mundy who is coming off of Ozark.
Speaker 1: You've got some great names and they're going to get jobs.
Speaker 1: What about the I guess what I'm saying is for
Speaker 1: the rest of the marketplace. If you don't have the
Speaker 1: best names, what do you do or or you know,
Speaker 1: should the broader marketplace? Is this going to be a
Speaker 1: troubling time? Is it only the cream of the crop
Speaker 1: that's going to survive?
Speaker 4: I don't Yeah, I'm happy to jump in. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't think it's just the cream of the crop.
Speaker 2: I'm Matt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry, this is Jeff. Matt and I have talked
Speaker 4: about this a lot. We don't think it's just the
Speaker 4: cream of the crop. We think if you have an
Speaker 4: intrepid idea and you've got a career that and you've
Speaker 4: got a reputation and you know how to work well
Speaker 4: with others, and you've proven yourself in people are going
Speaker 4: to listen, want to listen to your idea and want
Speaker 4: to say does this fit on our era? This is
Speaker 4: something that we can do. And if you're young, coming
Speaker 4: up in the business with nothing to lose and only
Speaker 4: a dream, right then you're saying, great, I just graduated
Speaker 4: from this playwrights program where I've got this one pilot.
Speaker 2: I'm not that expensive. Come in and take me seriously.
Speaker 4: Where where you always see attrition in these moments, I
Speaker 4: think is in the middle. Right, So for those folks writers, filmmakers, actors, producers,
Speaker 4: anybody in media who's sort of been resting on their
Speaker 4: laurels for a bit and waiting for it to come
Speaker 4: to them, it gets a little bit harder. But if
Speaker 4: you're ready to play offense with your ideas, we think
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter what level.
Speaker 1: You're at, Matt, how else would you characterize this marketplace?
Speaker 1: How does it change now?
Speaker 3: Look, I think what you're going to start seeing I
Speaker 3: hit it a little bit before, but you're going to
Speaker 3: be seeing less shows, but you're going to be seeing
Speaker 3: more eyeballs on those shows, and that is going to
Speaker 3: lead to more cultural moments for us as a commun unity. Right,
Speaker 3: everyone is going to be joining and watching the same
Speaker 3: types of shows, similar to maybe the way it was
Speaker 3: back in you know, in the days before there was
Speaker 3: just so much television. Now now there's so much opportunity
Speaker 3: to look at so many different things. You don't know
Speaker 3: what option to pick, and it's going to bring people
Speaker 3: together in a really cool way and being able to
Speaker 3: watch things in a way that you get back into
Speaker 3: the office on Monday and everyone sit around the water
Speaker 3: cooler and be having conversations about watching the same thing.
Speaker 1: Finally, again, I'm going to push back on that. I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, you mentioned earlier that you think
Speaker 1: that we could see maybe half of the volume of shows.
Speaker 1: But I think the estimates I've seen are it's going
Speaker 1: to come down a good amount. I don't know about half,
Speaker 1: and we still got a lot of streaming services out there.
Speaker 1: I think it's not necessarily going to be that much
Speaker 1: less fragmented a world. So do you really think we're
Speaker 1: going to go back to the days where you know,
Speaker 1: a Game of Thrones is going to have you know,
Speaker 1: thirty million viewers coming to a finale. Do you really
Speaker 1: think it's going to be that dramatic a difference.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to get back to you know,
Speaker 3: the eighties or the nineties, you know, when it was
Speaker 3: when it was just network TV, really, but I think
Speaker 3: you're going to have more touch points for people because
Speaker 3: there's going to be less options there's there's going to
Speaker 3: be amazing shows out there.
Speaker 2: To Jeff's point, I think I think he makes a
Speaker 2: really good point.
Speaker 3: You know, people are going to rise to the top
Speaker 3: with their fantastic ideas, and as long as you're playing offense,
Speaker 3: you're going to be having really good content out there
Speaker 3: and you're gonna be able to get your shows on
Speaker 3: the air. I do feel that there will be some
Speaker 3: change in the market in the amount of shows that
Speaker 3: we're seeing out there.
Speaker 4: It's also Andrew, It's it's up to it's up to
Speaker 4: all of us in the business to find and nurture
Speaker 4: storytellers and find nurture ideas that have stories that cut through, right.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not thirty million a year, but you
Speaker 4: look at shows like Yellowstone, right, they're bringing.
Speaker 2: In big numbers.
Speaker 4: And then shows that you know Beef, which you know
Speaker 4: it's Sonny Lee wrote and came up with an amazing
Speaker 4: idea from his life, and our partner Ben works with
Speaker 4: Sonny and we're fortunate enough a grand of you to
Speaker 4: work with most of the writers and directors on.
Speaker 2: Beef like that.
Speaker 4: We don't have the exact data from Netflix on that,
Speaker 4: but that show really cut through in a massive way
Speaker 4: and was a big success for them critically and commercially.
Speaker 4: So it might it might to match point, it might
Speaker 4: not be what it was twenty years ago with thirty million,
Speaker 4: but buyers are still going to want eyeballs, and advertisers
Speaker 4: as we head towards this place in streaming where there's
Speaker 4: more advertising, are going to want as many eyeballs as
Speaker 4: they can get. That those fundamentals of the business are
Speaker 4: not going to change.
Speaker 1: Jeff, you mentioned data. Let's let's go on a bit
Speaker 1: of a tangent there. How do you as a management
Speaker 1: company deal in this asymmetrical.
Speaker 3: World of.
Speaker 1: Data where you're got streaming services that have, you know,
Speaker 1: armloads of data and sure, you know, every once in
Speaker 1: a while Netflix comes along and you know, throws a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of data out there and says, see no,
Speaker 1: we share plenty. But by and large it feels like
Speaker 1: representatives like yourselves seem to be operating at a big disadvantage.
Speaker 2: Well, it depends, right again, everything goes in cycles.
Speaker 4: So in the beginning of Netflix and making is so
Speaker 4: much content, we had many filmmakers and showrunners who wanted
Speaker 4: to go there because they felt that they were great
Speaker 4: creative partners and the money was really good.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: Those deals were very very significant early on through a
Speaker 4: couple of years ago. Those deals were very top of market,
Speaker 4: and the executives at Netflix were excellent saying to the.
Speaker 2: Creatives, we're here to make your shows. That's what we're
Speaker 2: here for.
Speaker 4: Obviously, there's now been a trend where people have been
Speaker 4: asking to see more data, and as deals are coming
Speaker 4: down a little bit in terms of financials.
Speaker 2: And length and general comm yeah, that has become an issue.
Speaker 4: So we're glad we're getting some of the data. Ultimately,
Speaker 4: what our role is with an artist is to help
Speaker 4: them architect a strategy to get them what they want
Speaker 4: in their career. Right, So for us, it's about picking
Speaker 4: who are the people that are going to help them
Speaker 4: put the best show on the air, Who are the
Speaker 4: people that can help them make the best deal around
Speaker 4: that show, who are the best collaborators, and how do
Speaker 4: we build something really long lasting. So data matters when
Speaker 4: you get granular on deal making, there's no question about that.
Speaker 4: But when it comes to how do I create something
Speaker 4: I'm really proud of and go Molly's as an example,
Speaker 4: Molly Smith Messler, who we've looked after for a long time,
Speaker 4: had an incredible first show called May. It was the
Speaker 4: first time she developed, and she developed with Lucky Chap
Speaker 4: and John Wells and made that show at Netflix and
Speaker 4: it was nominated for a bunch of awards. And Molly
Speaker 4: now has just gotten Sirens Green Lid, which Variety broke
Speaker 4: a few days ago. It's the second show she's ever developed,
Speaker 4: so she's two for two on development. But for us,
Speaker 4: it was Molly's in a deal with Netflix that is
Speaker 4: a fantastic deal. We teamed her back up with Lucky
Speaker 4: Chat because she felt so comfortable with them. We made
Speaker 4: sure that the material was great, and we made sure
Speaker 4: that she and Ginny Howe, who's a tremendous executive at Netflix,
Speaker 4: were in sync together. And now they're going to go
Speaker 4: tell another amazing story and I'm so excited for everyone
Speaker 4: to be able to see that story at some point
Speaker 4: next year. So again, the data matters, but for getting
Speaker 4: artists where they want to be, it's not everything.
Speaker 2: It's one thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of the financials, Matt, what's it like nowadays
Speaker 1: when you're talking to your clients about what the writers
Speaker 1: or producers of Yesteryear could hope to make from being
Speaker 1: a runner versus today given the clout that you know,
Speaker 1: the streaming services have given, the way you know, back
Speaker 1: end deals or the lack thereof are structured. Is it
Speaker 1: is it just not as lucrative as it used to be.
Speaker 3: I think it can still be a very lucrative business.
Speaker 3: The pie might have gotten a little bit smaller right
Speaker 3: as you turned analog dollars into digital sense. But you know,
Speaker 3: as long as you are talented and as long as
Speaker 3: you are able to be on the offense and go
Speaker 3: sell products or sell your project in a competitive landscape,
Speaker 3: which is what we really try to do with all
Speaker 3: of our clients is to make sure that there's a
Speaker 3: competitive situation and that is more important than ever to
Speaker 3: help make sure that our clients can be making a good,
Speaker 3: fair deal that is you know, going to be super
Speaker 3: beneficial to them. And you know, to your question on
Speaker 3: the back end, look, obviously the data has helped us
Speaker 3: and you know, Netflix is transparency especially has helped us
Speaker 3: in helping our clients along with their lawyers and agents,
Speaker 3: make better deals for them. And the landscape is going
Speaker 3: to continue to change over the next you know, as
Speaker 3: everything gets reset over the next twelve to eighteen months,
Speaker 3: let's say. But as long as there is a competitive
Speaker 3: market and as long as there are stories that the
Speaker 3: buyers want, which we feel very fortunate to represent people
Speaker 3: that are in those positions, we're seeing we're not seeing
Speaker 3: a major downward trend in what our clients are making.
Speaker 4: I think that's that's really well said, and you're just
Speaker 4: a double underline what Matt said about competitive when you're
Speaker 4: working with an artist, which really you hope for lots
Speaker 4: of things. You hope for process wins. You hope that
Speaker 4: they are really happy with the stories they've told. You
Speaker 4: hope that they feel like the placement of those stories
Speaker 4: has really worked. But in the inception of those stories,
Speaker 4: you want multiple people getting excited about them. So we're
Speaker 4: out with something right now that we haven't reported on
Speaker 4: yet where we've got several studios bidding on a piece
Speaker 4: for two clients of ours, a show runner and producer
Speaker 4: around a company that we're building right now. And we
Speaker 4: started this conversation and we had four different studios bidding
Speaker 4: on it and number down to two. This was just
Speaker 4: an article and a writer with an idea, but it's
Speaker 4: something that really resonates and cut through and the deal
Speaker 4: that we're making is incredibly cutting edge, is incredibly elegant,
Speaker 4: but they're going to walk away with a chance to
Speaker 4: do very, very very well, and if they hit it
Speaker 4: out of the park, they potentially will make more money
Speaker 4: on this show than they would have if they'd set
Speaker 4: this up several years ago. So the ways that we're
Speaker 4: making deals are evolving, but you need to have an
Speaker 4: idea or a package that multiple buyers want so.
Speaker 2: That you can really get under the hood and make
Speaker 2: an aggressive deal for your clients.
Speaker 4: The one off open writing assignment at a studio or network.
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, those those numbers are going down a bit,
Speaker 4: so we're trying to get all of our storytellers and
Speaker 4: artists to play offense.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a moment with more with
Speaker 1: Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver, and we are back with
Speaker 1: the principles at Grand View Management. Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver, Guys,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm surprised to hear that we're not hearing
Speaker 1: the people that you are negotiating with plead poverty more often,
Speaker 1: because I would assume after you know the strikes and
Speaker 1: after you know the streaming services, you know, meaning more
Speaker 1: into needing to demonstrate profitability, that they'd be all tapped out,
Speaker 1: they'd be, you know, not being able to spend top
Speaker 1: dollars anymore. But I feel like that's not what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2: So what's going on? I mean, just to jump in
Speaker 2: this is Matt.
Speaker 3: I feel like we, Jeff and I have found ourselves
Speaker 3: in a very fortunate position.
Speaker 2: We started this company ten years ago.
Speaker 3: You know, we were best friends coming up and meeting
Speaker 3: at the agency and we were able to hone in
Speaker 3: and just learn a lot over the years before we
Speaker 3: started the company. And what we feel very blessed about
Speaker 3: is that having built this company based on a culture.
Speaker 3: Excuse me, that culture is our strategy, and being able
Speaker 3: to bring in artists and have them help or helping
Speaker 3: them create ideas, pitches, and then help them create a
Speaker 3: market out there with packaging that with our agency partners,
Speaker 3: we've been able to stay above the fray when it
Speaker 3: comes to you know, the the quote unquote economic downturn,
Speaker 3: which you know people are crying poverty onto your what
Speaker 3: you just said, Andrew, we feel very forciate to represent
Speaker 3: people who are at the top of their game and
Speaker 3: whether that is a showrunner on a massive hit TV show,
Speaker 3: or you know someone that we just discovered, you know,
Speaker 3: out of the UK, or or you know, right out
Speaker 3: of grad school. We like to consider ourselves the best
Speaker 3: in the game when it comes to identifying talent and
Speaker 3: making sure that talent is ultra successful in the marketplace.
Speaker 1: Now are we going to see though? You know, it's
Speaker 1: see I remember there was a time, maybe it was
Speaker 1: always this time, and I'm just forgetting, but like you know,
Speaker 1: networks would seize on a talent. I think of like
Speaker 1: you know, sort of like the Chuck Loriy model, where
Speaker 1: it's like they find the talent and then that talent
Speaker 1: in a matter of years will go from one project
Speaker 1: to two projects to nine projects, you know where they
Speaker 1: are just they become an empire onto themselves. Are we
Speaker 1: going to see those type of people rise up rather quickly?
Speaker 1: Is that next generation? Do you think going to emerge
Speaker 1: soon enough?
Speaker 4: It's a great question. It's a great question. I mean, listen,
Speaker 4: I think you could. One of the things that you
Speaker 4: might be able to say about peak TV is that
Speaker 4: there were too many shows, and in those too many
Speaker 4: shows that maybe were too many showrunners, and some of
Speaker 4: those shows really buckled under the weight of expectations, financial
Speaker 4: or otherwise because the shows weren't a certain level of quality, right,
Speaker 4: And I think that's that's something that people were experiencing
Speaker 4: during peak TV, this sort of fatigue around are the
Speaker 4: shows great?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 4: Will there be more? Chuck Lori's more, Ryan m more,
Speaker 4: Shonda's absolutely. Will it be a meritocracy? We think so,
Speaker 4: will you just be given a show because so many
Speaker 4: networks have so many hours that they're now needing to fill. No,
Speaker 4: it's going to be harder as always. The great people
Speaker 4: with great motivation and great talent and great character and
Speaker 4: great ambition will be that new class for sure. It's
Speaker 4: just going to be a little bit tougher. And that's
Speaker 4: maybe okay for a minute, so that we can find
Speaker 4: the quality that we need to to keep cutting through
Speaker 4: a marketplace where people are looking at things on second
Speaker 4: screen and have lots of different opportunities to do. Like,
Speaker 4: we're traditionalists in the sense that we want people watching
Speaker 4: great shows, we want people going to great films. So
Speaker 4: the answer your question, Andrew, yes, there will still be
Speaker 4: those people. But we think that the people who get
Speaker 4: to those lofty heights there'll be less of a chance.
Speaker 4: But if you have that combination of skill and motivation
Speaker 4: and character, you can get there.
Speaker 1: And I remember people like Bill Lawrence Scrubbs, executive producer
Speaker 1: a lot of great shows as well, voice and concerns
Speaker 1: during the strike that the next generation of producers were
Speaker 1: not going to be able to be trained and brought
Speaker 1: up in a system that was going.
Speaker 2: To groom them to.
Speaker 1: Really be ready to take on being able to show run.
Speaker 1: Do you think we're coming out of the strike with
Speaker 1: a system that is going to equip them to do that?
Speaker 1: Do you worry that for your clients who might fit
Speaker 1: needing that grooming, that they're going to be ready to
Speaker 1: take that mantle?
Speaker 3: That is as a great question, Andrew, The answer is yes,
Speaker 3: we do think they're to be ready. And just to
Speaker 3: further your point, you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 3: the concerns coming out of some of these older showrunners
Speaker 3: was is that you're cutting down from twenty two episodes.
Speaker 2: Of network to ten episodes of.
Speaker 3: Premium, you know, streaming, and it was just giving people
Speaker 3: less experience, and that people writers were moving too quickly
Speaker 3: through the ranks and going from a staff writer to
Speaker 3: a co executive producer in a matter of a couple
Speaker 3: of years where it used to take you know, ten
Speaker 3: plus years. What has happened is that there is now
Speaker 3: a new subset of non writing executive producers that are
Speaker 3: you know, helping these you know, potentially younger showrunners. And
Speaker 3: we are very instrumental with our clients in helping select
Speaker 3: them and make sure that there is someone helping them,
Speaker 3: especially on their first shows.
Speaker 2: These shows are big shows.
Speaker 3: You know, you're a writer and you're coming in and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden you're being asked to run, you know,
Speaker 3: essentially a company for that's you know, costs tens of
Speaker 3: millions of dollars and run hundreds of people and be
Speaker 3: the CEO of that company. That's that's not something that
Speaker 3: someone can do by themselves, and it is a team
Speaker 3: oriented job. In the same way that what Jeff and
Speaker 3: I do as a team oriented representation. You know, everyone
Speaker 3: at this company helps each other's clients. We make sure
Speaker 3: that we were helping each other and we're communicating, making
Speaker 3: sure that there's transparency and everything so that we can
Speaker 3: help our clients rise.
Speaker 2: And in the same.
Speaker 3: Way with our showrunners, they need that help and they
Speaker 3: need partners which we help them find to make sure
Speaker 3: that they're going to be successful.
Speaker 2: I think that's so well said.
Speaker 4: The only other thing I'd add to that, Andrew, is
Speaker 4: going back to your previous question, Like the Shonda's, the
Speaker 4: Chucks and the Ryans and the sort of you know,
Speaker 4: real aspirational heavyweights there got there by identifying who their
Speaker 4: people are and by being mentors ands. So I think
Speaker 4: a lot of what our job is is to figure
Speaker 4: out Sometimes you've got an artist who.
Speaker 2: Just wants to tell a story.
Speaker 4: They just want to tell a story, and they want
Speaker 4: to tell that story to the fullest, and they don't
Speaker 4: want to think about touching anything else while they're telling
Speaker 4: that story and go from the ideas in my head.
Speaker 4: So I'm accepting an Emmy on stage, and that's great.
Speaker 4: We love those people and they're wonderful, but they also
Speaker 4: know that they are more one project to one project,
Speaker 4: and that's totally okay. That's part of their artictic expression.
Speaker 4: There's some who say, you know what, I want to
Speaker 4: juggle multiple things at once. It will make all these
Speaker 4: things better and I will feel satiated in different ways.
Speaker 4: And if we can help those people find their people,
Speaker 4: find their younger writers who are going to be their showrunners,
Speaker 4: find their non writing EPs they want to partner with.
Speaker 4: Maybe find a non writing EP they want to start
Speaker 4: a company with. So that you've got a tremendous showrunner
Speaker 4: and a non writing EP together with the same mission,
Speaker 4: which is how do we lift other people.
Speaker 2: Up and tell their stories?
Speaker 4: So we always r on guard for bad mentorship. There's
Speaker 4: nothing worse than putting a great idea with a bad producer.
Speaker 4: It's absolutely brutal. It slows everything down and you're fighting
Speaker 4: up against the tide the entire way. So if you,
Speaker 4: if you collaborate in the right way, the mentorship park
Speaker 4: gets taken care of.
Speaker 1: So now I want you to look across the negotiation
Speaker 1: table and size up the field of buyers out there.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a long list. I think it's almost
Speaker 1: surprising here we are in February twenty twenty four and
Speaker 1: the list is that long. The speculation of cross, of course,
Speaker 1: is that that list is going to winnow any day.
Speaker 1: But we've been saying that for a long time too.
Speaker 1: What do you what do you think is going to happen?
Speaker 1: And I'm not even just saying, you know, is it
Speaker 1: going to WINNO? Is it going to not but when
Speaker 1: you when you look at the list of buyers, what
Speaker 1: do you see right now in terms of the market?
Speaker 1: Is this a is this a discerning list? Do you
Speaker 1: feel like you have a clear sense of what buyers
Speaker 1: want even? Do they have distinct identities, distinct set of needs?
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 4: Well, Andrew, I'm so curious to hear your thoughts on
Speaker 4: this because you've been reporting on this and looking at
Speaker 4: this for a long time. To your point, we've all
Speaker 4: been sort of looking at the guillotine about to come
Speaker 4: down on all these different networks. What have you seen
Speaker 4: and heard in your travels? How come you don't think
Speaker 4: that's happened yet.
Speaker 1: Well, my skeptical take is that obviously all eyes are
Speaker 1: on Paramount right now, and my feeling is that it's
Speaker 1: not going to happen anytime soon, and that there's probably
Speaker 1: regulatory issues that are at play here, and that maybe
Speaker 1: this is not going to be so easily done, and
Speaker 1: that perhaps maybe this is something like they need to
Speaker 1: figure out who's going to be in the White House
Speaker 1: by the end of the year first, that maybe you know,
Speaker 1: there could be a whole host of reasons and that
Speaker 1: this isn't maybe necessarily as simple as just paramount. And
Speaker 1: so again, though my question really isn't just about like, oh,
Speaker 1: there'll be one less buyer out there. I'm really more
Speaker 1: curious about, like, you know, there was a time where
Speaker 1: it just seemed like all these guys were just sort
Speaker 1: of like gobbling up product indiscriminately. Now it even feels
Speaker 1: like everyone's just focused on sports. So I guess I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to get a sense of you know, how
Speaker 1: you see it.
Speaker 4: All you can ask from your creed, all you can
Speaker 4: ask from your strategic partners at buyers is for honesty
Speaker 4: and transparency. Right as managers, agents, lawyer, producers, as people
Speaker 4: in the creative process and in this arena, all we
Speaker 4: can ask from the folks who are running these places
Speaker 4: are tell us what you can do, tell us what
Speaker 4: you can't do, tell us what you will do, tell
Speaker 4: us what you won't do, and then let us help
Speaker 4: get the right.
Speaker 2: Ideas with the right people to you.
Speaker 4: So, the folks who are greenlighting these shows, for the
Speaker 4: most part, are not the ones who are making the
Speaker 4: bigger M and A decisions. Those decisions are coming down
Speaker 4: from a different level. Right for us, all we need
Speaker 4: are for the people who are actually green lighting shows
Speaker 4: or not green lighting shows, to be able to be
Speaker 4: real and honest with us, so we can be real
Speaker 4: and honest with the people that we work with so
Speaker 4: that we can deliver them something. Or if they're in
Speaker 4: a place where they can't buy anything for six weeks,
Speaker 4: we say, great, we'll talk to you in six weeks.
Speaker 4: If that changes, let us know, just so we can
Speaker 4: have an active picture of what the market is. I'd say, Matt,
Speaker 4: I'm curious to hear what you would say. I think
Speaker 4: right now what we're getting from all the buyers is
Speaker 4: bring us specific things in specific buckets because we're open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3: Look, this entire business, you know, is cyclical like every
Speaker 3: other business, and we're in the middle of a down cycle.
Speaker 3: But that does not mean that content stops being bought
Speaker 3: and made. And to just point, as long as we
Speaker 3: have solid partners on the buying side that are letting
Speaker 3: us know what they're looking for, and sometimes they don't
Speaker 3: know all the answers because you know, upstairs in whatever
Speaker 3: C suite of corporate they're they're trying to figure out
Speaker 3: how to you know, get the right answers and looking
Speaker 3: at data and all this stuff. That honestly, at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, may or may not matter. What
Speaker 3: matters is that we represent people who come up with
Speaker 3: unique and unique and different ideas than what is currently
Speaker 3: in the market, and that excites the buyers and we
Speaker 3: feel really fortunate about it, you know, we you know,
Speaker 3: are able to kind of change the tide when when
Speaker 3: things maybe in a downturn. Right before the strike, you know,
Speaker 3: we went out with a pitch that was you know,
Speaker 3: as everyone was shutting down, you know, we went out
Speaker 3: with a pitch on a fascinating idea from this writer
Speaker 3: of the UK and there was a five way bidding
Speaker 3: war on it because it was just different and unique
Speaker 3: and it was this really cool comedy and everyone had
Speaker 3: never no one had ever seen it before.
Speaker 2: And that's why we feel really fortunate.
Speaker 3: And to your point your question, or ganew, we do
Speaker 3: feel optimistic because we're seeing the results.
Speaker 1: Last question. Here we are again in late February. There
Speaker 1: used to be a time where there was this very
Speaker 1: you know, clear calendar, clear rhythms to the TV market.
Speaker 1: What sense though, do you have now in this you
Speaker 1: know world where you know, the traditional fall schedule is
Speaker 1: probably gone for good. You know, as you look to March,
Speaker 1: you know, and beyond, how do you sort of get
Speaker 1: your bearings and what do you expect, you know, the
Speaker 1: spring to bring in terms of development and how whether
Speaker 1: it's linear networks or streaming, do you what do you
Speaker 1: expect lies ahead?
Speaker 3: I think we anticipate it to be year round. We anticipate,
Speaker 3: you know, the market to be opened all the time
Speaker 3: and for people to be wanting to purchase non stop.
Speaker 3: And the days to your point of upfronts in May
Speaker 3: and finding out you know, what was going to be
Speaker 3: on the schedule for that fall, those you know, still
Speaker 3: exists to a certain extent, but those days are over
Speaker 3: and it is a twenty four to seven game, and
Speaker 3: you know, our clients are you know, advised and always
Speaker 3: moving with us in the mentality that we're creating a
Speaker 3: market every day because we're coming up with our clients
Speaker 3: and helping them develop quality content that they're going to
Speaker 3: be able to sell to multiple buyers.
Speaker 2: And by the way, some of the buyers may not
Speaker 2: be buying.
Speaker 3: To just point at one moment or another, but there
Speaker 3: is always a market for content, especially if it is
Speaker 3: new and cutting edge and different and innovative.
Speaker 4: And there might be there might be an opportunity for
Speaker 4: broadcast network at this moment. I mean, I think everyone
Speaker 4: has been so focused on streamers and the growth of
Speaker 4: streamers and spot and what's happening there, and I think
Speaker 4: broadcast television has maybe gotten a little bit lost in
Speaker 4: the shuffle there. So I think our eyes are on
Speaker 4: the broadcasters to say, you know, what are you guys
Speaker 4: going to do, and can you make content that does
Speaker 4: cut through in a real way, and if so, maybe
Speaker 4: we go back to that, to that calendar in some way.
Speaker 3: I just to add on to that because it's a
Speaker 3: really interesting point. But Jeff brought up, but you're also
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of the streamers now trying to create
Speaker 3: their own network plus content, if you will. And so
Speaker 3: you're seeing you're starting to see the migration of some
Speaker 3: of the network players that usually in the writing space
Speaker 3: would be working, you know, at one of the big
Speaker 3: three networks actually migrating to the streaming platforms.
Speaker 1: Well, I can't think of a more hopeful note to
Speaker 1: end on than hope for the broadcast networks. But thank
Speaker 1: you both for your time, good luck pitching for the
Speaker 1: rest of this season.
Speaker 2: Thank you Andrew, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcasts
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Speaker 1: in next week for another episode of Brickkly Business
Speaker 4: HM