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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in

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Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working

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Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.

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Speaker 1: It was ten years ago that grand View Management was

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Speaker 1: formed to focus on a client list of high end

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Speaker 1: writers and producers. Since then, the biz has been through

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Speaker 1: a lot, to say the least, and the current day

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Speaker 1: and age is no exception, as the TV business in

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Speaker 1: particular navigates what you might call the post peak TV era.

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Speaker 1: To help illuminate the road ahead for the industry, I've

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Speaker 1: enlisted grand View principles Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk with them in just a moment. And we're back

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Speaker 1: with Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver of the management team Grandview,

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Speaker 1: and they've got a client list filled with writers and

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Speaker 1: producers of hit movies and TV shows like House of

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Speaker 1: the Dragon, Ozark Loki. Thanks for being with me today, guys.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having us. Hey, Ed, thanks for

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Speaker 2: having us.

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Speaker 1: So set the scene for me, if you will. As

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Speaker 1: we speak here in late February in Los Angeles. We've

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Speaker 1: gotten past the strikes. The streaming wars are a blaze,

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Speaker 1: but you've been in the business quite a while on

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Speaker 1: the chaos to calm spectrum here in Hollywood? Where do

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Speaker 1: things sit right now? Matt? Why don't you start us off?

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Speaker 2: Well, where do you thinks that right now?

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Speaker 3: You know, coming out of the strike, I think there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who are concerned looking at where

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Speaker 3: peak TV is going. There's been many indications that it

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Speaker 3: is going down, and that the many the amount of

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Speaker 3: shows that were being made in the five to six

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Speaker 3: hundred rage are going to be cut almost in half.

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Speaker 3: And at the same time, the movie business is trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out ways to get back to a better

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Speaker 3: box office from the year's past, and so there were

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Speaker 3: people concerned out there that all said, I think from

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Speaker 3: our viewpoint, we're pretty optimistic about the opportunities for our

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Speaker 3: clients in this changing landscape and feel very fortunate to

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Speaker 3: represent some extremely talented people in writers and directors and

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Speaker 3: so on, and feel that the opportunity is ripe for

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Speaker 3: them to continue to be able to produce content at

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Speaker 3: the highest level.

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Speaker 1: All right, So, you know, right off the bat, though,

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Speaker 1: I would think the simplistic take would be, now, wait

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Speaker 1: a second, you just did some scary math because less

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Speaker 1: product to be made means less opportunity for your clients.

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Speaker 1: So you know why, you know, Jeff, why be optimistic?

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Speaker 4: Well, listen, we were both in the business in two

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Speaker 4: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, right, Matt and

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Speaker 4: I started as assistants together at CIA. We met each

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Speaker 4: other my first day his third week. And you know,

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Speaker 4: two thousand and six felt like a great time, and

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Speaker 4: suddenly you had a strike and then you had a

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Speaker 4: financial meltdown. And we were lucky enough at that moment

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Speaker 4: to be young in the business. Matt was on aging

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Speaker 4: track at CIA and I was working as an executive.

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Speaker 2: But we really felt it right.

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Speaker 4: We felt the business screeched to a halt, and then

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Speaker 4: we felt this existential crisis in two thousand and eight

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Speaker 4: of what's going to happen. I remember going up for

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Speaker 4: a job at Paramount to be a CE in two

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Speaker 4: thousand and nine, and I was one of three hundred

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Speaker 4: qualified candidates for that job. So to your point, Andrew, right,

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Speaker 4: less opportunity is really scary. That said, we're in a

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Speaker 4: business of entrepreneurs and we're in a business of creatives,

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Speaker 4: and if you use those two together, you get storytellers

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Speaker 4: of the highest level who figure out a way to

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Speaker 4: get their stories told. So we're maybe uniquely confident in

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Speaker 4: the ability of our clients to get their stories out

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Speaker 4: there in the right way. So they're going to be

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Speaker 4: less when writing assignments. We've seen that there's going to

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Speaker 4: be less slots. But three months ago, I think people

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Speaker 4: were looking at FX and Hulu and saying are they

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Speaker 4: going to be bringing in new development? And right now,

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Speaker 4: you know, you've just had John Langraf, who we have

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Speaker 4: a ton of respect for in business with talk about

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Speaker 4: wanting new shows. Our friends at Hulu now want new shows,

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Speaker 4: so we're starting to see a rebound already. It's always

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Speaker 4: a scary moment when when you know supply and demand

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Speaker 4: get get a little bit screwed up. But if you're

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Speaker 4: the kind of artists who just waits for books to

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Speaker 4: come in your way or assignments to come in your way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it's time to rethink how you do things.

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Speaker 4: But if you're the kind of artist that has a

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Speaker 4: vision and has stories to tell, then we think you're

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Speaker 4: as well suited now as you were before.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I guess when you've got clients, like to

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Speaker 1: name a few of your people, you know, Ryan Condall

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Speaker 1: who is the showrunner on House of the Dragon. And

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Speaker 1: you've got Chris Mundy who is coming off of Ozark.

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Speaker 1: You've got some great names and they're going to get jobs.

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Speaker 1: What about the I guess what I'm saying is for

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Speaker 1: the rest of the marketplace. If you don't have the

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Speaker 1: best names, what do you do or or you know,

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Speaker 1: should the broader marketplace? Is this going to be a

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Speaker 1: troubling time? Is it only the cream of the crop

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Speaker 1: that's going to survive?

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Speaker 4: I don't Yeah, I'm happy to jump in. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's just the cream of the crop.

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Speaker 2: I'm Matt.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry, this is Jeff. Matt and I have talked

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Speaker 4: about this a lot. We don't think it's just the

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Speaker 4: cream of the crop. We think if you have an

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Speaker 4: intrepid idea and you've got a career that and you've

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Speaker 4: got a reputation and you know how to work well

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Speaker 4: with others, and you've proven yourself in people are going

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Speaker 4: to listen, want to listen to your idea and want

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Speaker 4: to say does this fit on our era? This is

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Speaker 4: something that we can do. And if you're young, coming

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Speaker 4: up in the business with nothing to lose and only

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Speaker 4: a dream, right then you're saying, great, I just graduated

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Speaker 4: from this playwrights program where I've got this one pilot.

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Speaker 2: I'm not that expensive. Come in and take me seriously.

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Speaker 4: Where where you always see attrition in these moments, I

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Speaker 4: think is in the middle. Right, So for those folks writers, filmmakers, actors, producers,

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Speaker 4: anybody in media who's sort of been resting on their

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Speaker 4: laurels for a bit and waiting for it to come

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Speaker 4: to them, it gets a little bit harder. But if

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Speaker 4: you're ready to play offense with your ideas, we think

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Speaker 4: it doesn't matter what level.

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Speaker 1: You're at, Matt, how else would you characterize this marketplace?

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Speaker 1: How does it change now?

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Speaker 3: Look, I think what you're going to start seeing I

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Speaker 3: hit it a little bit before, but you're going to

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Speaker 3: be seeing less shows, but you're going to be seeing

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Speaker 3: more eyeballs on those shows, and that is going to

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Speaker 3: lead to more cultural moments for us as a commun unity. Right,

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Speaker 3: everyone is going to be joining and watching the same

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Speaker 3: types of shows, similar to maybe the way it was

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Speaker 3: back in you know, in the days before there was

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Speaker 3: just so much television. Now now there's so much opportunity

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Speaker 3: to look at so many different things. You don't know

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Speaker 3: what option to pick, and it's going to bring people

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Speaker 3: together in a really cool way and being able to

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Speaker 3: watch things in a way that you get back into

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Speaker 3: the office on Monday and everyone sit around the water

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Speaker 3: cooler and be having conversations about watching the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Finally, again, I'm going to push back on that. I

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, you mentioned earlier that you think

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Speaker 1: that we could see maybe half of the volume of shows.

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Speaker 1: But I think the estimates I've seen are it's going

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Speaker 1: to come down a good amount. I don't know about half,

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Speaker 1: and we still got a lot of streaming services out there.

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Speaker 1: I think it's not necessarily going to be that much

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Speaker 1: less fragmented a world. So do you really think we're

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Speaker 1: going to go back to the days where you know,

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Speaker 1: a Game of Thrones is going to have you know,

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Speaker 1: thirty million viewers coming to a finale. Do you really

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Speaker 1: think it's going to be that dramatic a difference.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to get back to you know,

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Speaker 3: the eighties or the nineties, you know, when it was

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Speaker 3: when it was just network TV, really, but I think

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Speaker 3: you're going to have more touch points for people because

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Speaker 3: there's going to be less options there's there's going to

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Speaker 3: be amazing shows out there.

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Speaker 2: To Jeff's point, I think I think he makes a

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Speaker 2: really good point.

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Speaker 3: You know, people are going to rise to the top

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Speaker 3: with their fantastic ideas, and as long as you're playing offense,

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Speaker 3: you're going to be having really good content out there

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Speaker 3: and you're gonna be able to get your shows on

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Speaker 3: the air. I do feel that there will be some

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Speaker 3: change in the market in the amount of shows that

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Speaker 3: we're seeing out there.

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Speaker 4: It's also Andrew, It's it's up to it's up to

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Speaker 4: all of us in the business to find and nurture

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Speaker 4: storytellers and find nurture ideas that have stories that cut through, right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's not thirty million a year, but you

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Speaker 4: look at shows like Yellowstone, right, they're bringing.

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Speaker 2: In big numbers.

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Speaker 4: And then shows that you know Beef, which you know

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Speaker 4: it's Sonny Lee wrote and came up with an amazing

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Speaker 4: idea from his life, and our partner Ben works with

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Speaker 4: Sonny and we're fortunate enough a grand of you to

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Speaker 4: work with most of the writers and directors on.

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Speaker 2: Beef like that.

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Speaker 4: We don't have the exact data from Netflix on that,

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Speaker 4: but that show really cut through in a massive way

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Speaker 4: and was a big success for them critically and commercially.

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Speaker 4: So it might it might to match point, it might

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Speaker 4: not be what it was twenty years ago with thirty million,

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Speaker 4: but buyers are still going to want eyeballs, and advertisers

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Speaker 4: as we head towards this place in streaming where there's

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Speaker 4: more advertising, are going to want as many eyeballs as

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Speaker 4: they can get. That those fundamentals of the business are

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Speaker 4: not going to change.

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Speaker 1: Jeff, you mentioned data. Let's let's go on a bit

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Speaker 1: of a tangent there. How do you as a management

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Speaker 1: company deal in this asymmetrical.

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Speaker 3: World of.

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Speaker 1: Data where you're got streaming services that have, you know,

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Speaker 1: armloads of data and sure, you know, every once in

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Speaker 1: a while Netflix comes along and you know, throws a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of data out there and says, see no,

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Speaker 1: we share plenty. But by and large it feels like

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Speaker 1: representatives like yourselves seem to be operating at a big disadvantage.

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends, right again, everything goes in cycles.

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Speaker 4: So in the beginning of Netflix and making is so

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Speaker 4: much content, we had many filmmakers and showrunners who wanted

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Speaker 4: to go there because they felt that they were great

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Speaker 4: creative partners and the money was really good.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: Those deals were very very significant early on through a

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Speaker 4: couple of years ago. Those deals were very top of market,

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Speaker 4: and the executives at Netflix were excellent saying to the.

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Speaker 2: Creatives, we're here to make your shows. That's what we're

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Speaker 2: here for.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, there's now been a trend where people have been

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Speaker 4: asking to see more data, and as deals are coming

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Speaker 4: down a little bit in terms of financials.

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Speaker 2: And length and general comm yeah, that has become an issue.

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Speaker 4: So we're glad we're getting some of the data. Ultimately,

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Speaker 4: what our role is with an artist is to help

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Speaker 4: them architect a strategy to get them what they want

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Speaker 4: in their career. Right, So for us, it's about picking

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Speaker 4: who are the people that are going to help them

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Speaker 4: put the best show on the air, Who are the

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Speaker 4: people that can help them make the best deal around

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Speaker 4: that show, who are the best collaborators, and how do

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Speaker 4: we build something really long lasting. So data matters when

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Speaker 4: you get granular on deal making, there's no question about that.

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Speaker 4: But when it comes to how do I create something

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Speaker 4: I'm really proud of and go Molly's as an example,

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Speaker 4: Molly Smith Messler, who we've looked after for a long time,

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Speaker 4: had an incredible first show called May. It was the

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Speaker 4: first time she developed, and she developed with Lucky Chap

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Speaker 4: and John Wells and made that show at Netflix and

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Speaker 4: it was nominated for a bunch of awards. And Molly

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Speaker 4: now has just gotten Sirens Green Lid, which Variety broke

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Speaker 4: a few days ago. It's the second show she's ever developed,

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Speaker 4: so she's two for two on development. But for us,

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Speaker 4: it was Molly's in a deal with Netflix that is

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Speaker 4: a fantastic deal. We teamed her back up with Lucky

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Speaker 4: Chat because she felt so comfortable with them. We made

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Speaker 4: sure that the material was great, and we made sure

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Speaker 4: that she and Ginny Howe, who's a tremendous executive at Netflix,

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Speaker 4: were in sync together. And now they're going to go

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Speaker 4: tell another amazing story and I'm so excited for everyone

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Speaker 4: to be able to see that story at some point

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Speaker 4: next year. So again, the data matters, but for getting

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Speaker 4: artists where they want to be, it's not everything.

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Speaker 2: It's one thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of the financials, Matt, what's it like nowadays

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Speaker 1: when you're talking to your clients about what the writers

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Speaker 1: or producers of Yesteryear could hope to make from being

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Speaker 1: a runner versus today given the clout that you know,

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Speaker 1: the streaming services have given, the way you know, back

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Speaker 1: end deals or the lack thereof are structured. Is it

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Speaker 1: is it just not as lucrative as it used to be.

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Speaker 3: I think it can still be a very lucrative business.

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Speaker 3: The pie might have gotten a little bit smaller right

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Speaker 3: as you turned analog dollars into digital sense. But you know,

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Speaker 3: as long as you are talented and as long as

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Speaker 3: you are able to be on the offense and go

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Speaker 3: sell products or sell your project in a competitive landscape,

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Speaker 3: which is what we really try to do with all

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Speaker 3: of our clients is to make sure that there's a

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Speaker 3: competitive situation and that is more important than ever to

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Speaker 3: help make sure that our clients can be making a good,

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Speaker 3: fair deal that is you know, going to be super

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Speaker 3: beneficial to them. And you know, to your question on

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Speaker 3: the back end, look, obviously the data has helped us

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Speaker 3: and you know, Netflix is transparency especially has helped us

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Speaker 3: in helping our clients along with their lawyers and agents,

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Speaker 3: make better deals for them. And the landscape is going

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Speaker 3: to continue to change over the next you know, as

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Speaker 3: everything gets reset over the next twelve to eighteen months,

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Speaker 3: let's say. But as long as there is a competitive

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Speaker 3: market and as long as there are stories that the

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Speaker 3: buyers want, which we feel very fortunate to represent people

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Speaker 3: that are in those positions, we're seeing we're not seeing

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Speaker 3: a major downward trend in what our clients are making.

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Speaker 4: I think that's that's really well said, and you're just

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Speaker 4: a double underline what Matt said about competitive when you're

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Speaker 4: working with an artist, which really you hope for lots

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Speaker 4: of things. You hope for process wins. You hope that

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Speaker 4: they are really happy with the stories they've told. You

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Speaker 4: hope that they feel like the placement of those stories

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Speaker 4: has really worked. But in the inception of those stories,

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Speaker 4: you want multiple people getting excited about them. So we're

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Speaker 4: out with something right now that we haven't reported on

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Speaker 4: yet where we've got several studios bidding on a piece

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Speaker 4: for two clients of ours, a show runner and producer

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Speaker 4: around a company that we're building right now. And we

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Speaker 4: started this conversation and we had four different studios bidding

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Speaker 4: on it and number down to two. This was just

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Speaker 4: an article and a writer with an idea, but it's

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Speaker 4: something that really resonates and cut through and the deal

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Speaker 4: that we're making is incredibly cutting edge, is incredibly elegant,

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Speaker 4: but they're going to walk away with a chance to

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Speaker 4: do very, very very well, and if they hit it

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Speaker 4: out of the park, they potentially will make more money

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Speaker 4: on this show than they would have if they'd set

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Speaker 4: this up several years ago. So the ways that we're

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Speaker 4: making deals are evolving, but you need to have an

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Speaker 4: idea or a package that multiple buyers want so.

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Speaker 2: That you can really get under the hood and make

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Speaker 2: an aggressive deal for your clients.

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Speaker 4: The one off open writing assignment at a studio or network.

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Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, those those numbers are going down a bit,

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Speaker 4: so we're trying to get all of our storytellers and

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Speaker 4: artists to play offense.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a moment with more with

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Speaker 1: Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver, and we are back with

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Speaker 1: the principles at Grand View Management. Matt Rosen and Jeff Silver, Guys,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm surprised to hear that we're not hearing

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Speaker 1: the people that you are negotiating with plead poverty more often,

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Speaker 1: because I would assume after you know the strikes and

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Speaker 1: after you know the streaming services, you know, meaning more

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Speaker 1: into needing to demonstrate profitability, that they'd be all tapped out,

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Speaker 1: they'd be, you know, not being able to spend top

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Speaker 1: dollars anymore. But I feel like that's not what I'm hearing.

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Speaker 2: So what's going on? I mean, just to jump in

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Speaker 2: this is Matt.

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Speaker 3: I feel like we, Jeff and I have found ourselves

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Speaker 3: in a very fortunate position.

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Speaker 2: We started this company ten years ago.

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Speaker 3: You know, we were best friends coming up and meeting

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Speaker 3: at the agency and we were able to hone in

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Speaker 3: and just learn a lot over the years before we

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Speaker 3: started the company. And what we feel very blessed about

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Speaker 3: is that having built this company based on a culture.

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Speaker 3: Excuse me, that culture is our strategy, and being able

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Speaker 3: to bring in artists and have them help or helping

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Speaker 3: them create ideas, pitches, and then help them create a

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Speaker 3: market out there with packaging that with our agency partners,

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Speaker 3: we've been able to stay above the fray when it

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Speaker 3: comes to you know, the the quote unquote economic downturn,

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Speaker 3: which you know people are crying poverty onto your what

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Speaker 3: you just said, Andrew, we feel very forciate to represent

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Speaker 3: people who are at the top of their game and

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Speaker 3: whether that is a showrunner on a massive hit TV show,

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Speaker 3: or you know someone that we just discovered, you know,

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Speaker 3: out of the UK, or or you know, right out

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Speaker 3: of grad school. We like to consider ourselves the best

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Speaker 3: in the game when it comes to identifying talent and

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Speaker 3: making sure that talent is ultra successful in the marketplace.

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Speaker 1: Now are we going to see though? You know, it's

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Speaker 1: see I remember there was a time, maybe it was

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Speaker 1: always this time, and I'm just forgetting, but like you know,

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Speaker 1: networks would seize on a talent. I think of like

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of like the Chuck Loriy model, where

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Speaker 1: it's like they find the talent and then that talent

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Speaker 1: in a matter of years will go from one project

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Speaker 1: to two projects to nine projects, you know where they

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Speaker 1: are just they become an empire onto themselves. Are we

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Speaker 1: going to see those type of people rise up rather quickly?

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Speaker 1: Is that next generation? Do you think going to emerge

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Speaker 1: soon enough?

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Speaker 4: It's a great question. It's a great question. I mean, listen,

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Speaker 4: I think you could. One of the things that you

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Speaker 4: might be able to say about peak TV is that

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Speaker 4: there were too many shows, and in those too many

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Speaker 4: shows that maybe were too many showrunners, and some of

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Speaker 4: those shows really buckled under the weight of expectations, financial

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Speaker 4: or otherwise because the shows weren't a certain level of quality, right,

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Speaker 4: And I think that's that's something that people were experiencing

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Speaker 4: during peak TV, this sort of fatigue around are the

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Speaker 4: shows great?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 4: Will there be more? Chuck Lori's more, Ryan m more,

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Speaker 4: Shonda's absolutely. Will it be a meritocracy? We think so,

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Speaker 4: will you just be given a show because so many

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Speaker 4: networks have so many hours that they're now needing to fill. No,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be harder as always. The great people

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Speaker 4: with great motivation and great talent and great character and

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Speaker 4: great ambition will be that new class for sure. It's

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Speaker 4: just going to be a little bit tougher. And that's

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Speaker 4: maybe okay for a minute, so that we can find

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Speaker 4: the quality that we need to to keep cutting through

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Speaker 4: a marketplace where people are looking at things on second

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Speaker 4: screen and have lots of different opportunities to do. Like,

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Speaker 4: we're traditionalists in the sense that we want people watching

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Speaker 4: great shows, we want people going to great films. So

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Speaker 4: the answer your question, Andrew, yes, there will still be

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Speaker 4: those people. But we think that the people who get

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Speaker 4: to those lofty heights there'll be less of a chance.

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Speaker 4: But if you have that combination of skill and motivation

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Speaker 4: and character, you can get there.

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Speaker 1: And I remember people like Bill Lawrence Scrubbs, executive producer

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Speaker 1: a lot of great shows as well, voice and concerns

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Speaker 1: during the strike that the next generation of producers were

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Speaker 1: not going to be able to be trained and brought

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Speaker 1: up in a system that was going.

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Speaker 2: To groom them to.

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Speaker 1: Really be ready to take on being able to show run.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we're coming out of the strike with

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Speaker 1: a system that is going to equip them to do that?

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Speaker 1: Do you worry that for your clients who might fit

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Speaker 1: needing that grooming, that they're going to be ready to

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Speaker 1: take that mantle?

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Speaker 3: That is as a great question, Andrew, The answer is yes,

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Speaker 3: we do think they're to be ready. And just to

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Speaker 3: further your point, you know, I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: the concerns coming out of some of these older showrunners

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Speaker 3: was is that you're cutting down from twenty two episodes.

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Speaker 2: Of network to ten episodes of.

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Speaker 3: Premium, you know, streaming, and it was just giving people

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Speaker 3: less experience, and that people writers were moving too quickly

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Speaker 3: through the ranks and going from a staff writer to

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Speaker 3: a co executive producer in a matter of a couple

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Speaker 3: of years where it used to take you know, ten

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Speaker 3: plus years. What has happened is that there is now

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Speaker 3: a new subset of non writing executive producers that are

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Speaker 3: you know, helping these you know, potentially younger showrunners. And

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Speaker 3: we are very instrumental with our clients in helping select

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Speaker 3: them and make sure that there is someone helping them,

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Speaker 3: especially on their first shows.

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Speaker 2: These shows are big shows.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're a writer and you're coming in and

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden you're being asked to run, you know,

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Speaker 3: essentially a company for that's you know, costs tens of

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Speaker 3: millions of dollars and run hundreds of people and be

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Speaker 3: the CEO of that company. That's that's not something that

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Speaker 3: someone can do by themselves, and it is a team

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Speaker 3: oriented job. In the same way that what Jeff and

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Speaker 3: I do as a team oriented representation. You know, everyone

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Speaker 3: at this company helps each other's clients. We make sure

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Speaker 3: that we were helping each other and we're communicating, making

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Speaker 3: sure that there's transparency and everything so that we can

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Speaker 3: help our clients rise.

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Speaker 2: And in the same.

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Speaker 3: Way with our showrunners, they need that help and they

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Speaker 3: need partners which we help them find to make sure

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Speaker 3: that they're going to be successful.

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Speaker 2: I think that's so well said.

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Speaker 4: The only other thing I'd add to that, Andrew, is

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Speaker 4: going back to your previous question, Like the Shonda's, the

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Speaker 4: Chucks and the Ryans and the sort of you know,

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Speaker 4: real aspirational heavyweights there got there by identifying who their

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Speaker 4: people are and by being mentors ands. So I think

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Speaker 4: a lot of what our job is is to figure

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Speaker 4: out Sometimes you've got an artist who.

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Speaker 2: Just wants to tell a story.

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Speaker 4: They just want to tell a story, and they want

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Speaker 4: to tell that story to the fullest, and they don't

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Speaker 4: want to think about touching anything else while they're telling

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Speaker 4: that story and go from the ideas in my head.

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Speaker 4: So I'm accepting an Emmy on stage, and that's great.

439
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 4: We love those people and they're wonderful, but they also

440
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 4: know that they are more one project to one project,

441
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 4: and that's totally okay. That's part of their artictic expression.

442
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 4: There's some who say, you know what, I want to

443
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 4: juggle multiple things at once. It will make all these

444
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 4: things better and I will feel satiated in different ways.

445
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 4: And if we can help those people find their people,

446
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 4: find their younger writers who are going to be their showrunners,

447
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 4: find their non writing EPs they want to partner with.

448
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 4: Maybe find a non writing EP they want to start

449
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 4: a company with. So that you've got a tremendous showrunner

450
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 4: and a non writing EP together with the same mission,

451
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 4: which is how do we lift other people.

452
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: Up and tell their stories?

453
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 4: So we always r on guard for bad mentorship. There's

454
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: nothing worse than putting a great idea with a bad producer.

455
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 4: It's absolutely brutal. It slows everything down and you're fighting

456
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,239
Speaker 4: up against the tide the entire way. So if you,

457
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 4: if you collaborate in the right way, the mentorship park

458
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 4: gets taken care of.

459
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: So now I want you to look across the negotiation

460
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: table and size up the field of buyers out there.

461
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: It's a it's a long list. I think it's almost

462
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: surprising here we are in February twenty twenty four and

463
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: the list is that long. The speculation of cross, of course,

464
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: is that that list is going to winnow any day.

465
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: But we've been saying that for a long time too.

466
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: What do you what do you think is going to happen?

467
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: And I'm not even just saying, you know, is it

468
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: going to WINNO? Is it going to not but when

469
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: you when you look at the list of buyers, what

470
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: do you see right now in terms of the market?

471
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: Is this a is this a discerning list? Do you

472
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: feel like you have a clear sense of what buyers

473
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: want even? Do they have distinct identities, distinct set of needs?

474
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: What do you think?

475
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 4: Well, Andrew, I'm so curious to hear your thoughts on

476
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: this because you've been reporting on this and looking at

477
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 4: this for a long time. To your point, we've all

478
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 4: been sort of looking at the guillotine about to come

479
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 4: down on all these different networks. What have you seen

480
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: and heard in your travels? How come you don't think

481
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 4: that's happened yet.

482
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: Well, my skeptical take is that obviously all eyes are

483
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: on Paramount right now, and my feeling is that it's

484
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: not going to happen anytime soon, and that there's probably

485
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: regulatory issues that are at play here, and that maybe

486
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: this is not going to be so easily done, and

487
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: that perhaps maybe this is something like they need to

488
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: figure out who's going to be in the White House

489
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: by the end of the year first, that maybe you know,

490
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: there could be a whole host of reasons and that

491
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: this isn't maybe necessarily as simple as just paramount. And

492
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: so again, though my question really isn't just about like, oh,

493
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: there'll be one less buyer out there. I'm really more

494
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: curious about, like, you know, there was a time where

495
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: it just seemed like all these guys were just sort

496
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: of like gobbling up product indiscriminately. Now it even feels

497
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: like everyone's just focused on sports. So I guess I'm

498
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: just trying to get a sense of you know, how

499
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: you see it.

500
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 4: All you can ask from your creed, all you can

501
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 4: ask from your strategic partners at buyers is for honesty

502
00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 4: and transparency. Right as managers, agents, lawyer, producers, as people

503
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 4: in the creative process and in this arena, all we

504
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 4: can ask from the folks who are running these places

505
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 4: are tell us what you can do, tell us what

506
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 4: you can't do, tell us what you will do, tell

507
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 4: us what you won't do, and then let us help

508
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 4: get the right.

509
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: Ideas with the right people to you.

510
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: So, the folks who are greenlighting these shows, for the

511
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 4: most part, are not the ones who are making the

512
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 4: bigger M and A decisions. Those decisions are coming down

513
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 4: from a different level. Right for us, all we need

514
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 4: are for the people who are actually green lighting shows

515
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 4: or not green lighting shows, to be able to be

516
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 4: real and honest with us, so we can be real

517
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 4: and honest with the people that we work with so

518
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 4: that we can deliver them something. Or if they're in

519
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 4: a place where they can't buy anything for six weeks,

520
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 4: we say, great, we'll talk to you in six weeks.

521
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 4: If that changes, let us know, just so we can

522
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: have an active picture of what the market is. I'd say, Matt,

523
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 4: I'm curious to hear what you would say. I think

524
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 4: right now what we're getting from all the buyers is

525
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 4: bring us specific things in specific buckets because we're open.

526
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that.

527
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: Look, this entire business, you know, is cyclical like every

528
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: other business, and we're in the middle of a down cycle.

529
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: But that does not mean that content stops being bought

530
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 3: and made. And to just point, as long as we

531
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: have solid partners on the buying side that are letting

532
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: us know what they're looking for, and sometimes they don't

533
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: know all the answers because you know, upstairs in whatever

534
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: C suite of corporate they're they're trying to figure out

535
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: how to you know, get the right answers and looking

536
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: at data and all this stuff. That honestly, at the

537
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: end of the day, may or may not matter. What

538
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: matters is that we represent people who come up with

539
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: unique and unique and different ideas than what is currently

540
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: in the market, and that excites the buyers and we

541
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: feel really fortunate about it, you know, we you know,

542
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 3: are able to kind of change the tide when when

543
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: things maybe in a downturn. Right before the strike, you know,

544
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: we went out with a pitch that was you know,

545
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: as everyone was shutting down, you know, we went out

546
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 3: with a pitch on a fascinating idea from this writer

547
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: of the UK and there was a five way bidding

548
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: war on it because it was just different and unique

549
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: and it was this really cool comedy and everyone had

550
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: never no one had ever seen it before.

551
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: And that's why we feel really fortunate.

552
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: And to your point your question, or ganew, we do

553
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: feel optimistic because we're seeing the results.

554
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: Last question. Here we are again in late February. There

555
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: used to be a time where there was this very

556
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, clear calendar, clear rhythms to the TV market.

557
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: What sense though, do you have now in this you

558
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: know world where you know, the traditional fall schedule is

559
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: probably gone for good. You know, as you look to March,

560
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, and beyond, how do you sort of get

561
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: your bearings and what do you expect, you know, the

562
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: spring to bring in terms of development and how whether

563
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: it's linear networks or streaming, do you what do you

564
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 1: expect lies ahead?

565
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 3: I think we anticipate it to be year round. We anticipate,

566
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: you know, the market to be opened all the time

567
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: and for people to be wanting to purchase non stop.

568
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: And the days to your point of upfronts in May

569
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 3: and finding out you know, what was going to be

570
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: on the schedule for that fall, those you know, still

571
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: exists to a certain extent, but those days are over

572
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 3: and it is a twenty four to seven game, and

573
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 3: you know, our clients are you know, advised and always

574
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 3: moving with us in the mentality that we're creating a

575
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: market every day because we're coming up with our clients

576
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: and helping them develop quality content that they're going to

577
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 3: be able to sell to multiple buyers.

578
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: And by the way, some of the buyers may not

579
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: be buying.

580
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 3: To just point at one moment or another, but there

581
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: is always a market for content, especially if it is

582
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: new and cutting edge and different and innovative.

583
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 4: And there might be there might be an opportunity for

584
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 4: broadcast network at this moment. I mean, I think everyone

585
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 4: has been so focused on streamers and the growth of

586
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: streamers and spot and what's happening there, and I think

587
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 4: broadcast television has maybe gotten a little bit lost in

588
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 4: the shuffle there. So I think our eyes are on

589
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 4: the broadcasters to say, you know, what are you guys

590
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 4: going to do, and can you make content that does

591
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 4: cut through in a real way, and if so, maybe

592
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 4: we go back to that, to that calendar in some way.

593
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 3: I just to add on to that because it's a

594
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: really interesting point. But Jeff brought up, but you're also

595
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of the streamers now trying to create

596
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: their own network plus content, if you will. And so

597
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: you're seeing you're starting to see the migration of some

598
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 3: of the network players that usually in the writing space

599
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 3: would be working, you know, at one of the big

600
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: three networks actually migrating to the streaming platforms.

601
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: Well, I can't think of a more hopeful note to

602
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: end on than hope for the broadcast networks. But thank

603
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: you both for your time, good luck pitching for the

604
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: rest of this season.

605
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 2: Thank you Andrew, thanks for listening.

606
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcasts

607
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: and Amazon Music. We love to hear from listeners. Please

608
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: go to Variety dot com to sign up for the

609
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to tune

610
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: in next week for another episode of Brickkly Business

611
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 4: HM