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Speaker 1: What is the most important step in designing a golf course.

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Speaker 1: If you ask pretty much any practicing golf architect, they're

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Speaker 1: probably going to tell you that it's routing. But routing

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Speaker 1: is also one of the hardest aspects of golf architecture

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Speaker 1: to talk about. Even to longtime enthusiasts, this subject can

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Speaker 1: be pretty intimidating and mysterious. So in this episode of

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Speaker 1: Golf Architecture one oh one, we're going to try to

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Speaker 1: demystify the art of routing a golf course. I'm Garrett Morrison,

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Speaker 1: and this is designing golf all right. As always in

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Speaker 1: the Golf Architecture one oh one series, my guest slash

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Speaker 1: student is PJ Clark. PJ, how you doing, Garrett.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great.

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Speaker 3: I like our little matching sweatshirt action we got going

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Speaker 3: on here green.

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Speaker 1: We have vivid greens going on sea foam.

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Speaker 2: After Saint Patrick's Day.

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Speaker 3: We're celebrating a day late here, but spring has sprung,

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Speaker 3: so I like our little spring actually we got going on.

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Speaker 1: I mean I just wear green all week on Saint

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Speaker 1: Patrick's Week. Were releasing this episode, well, actually we're releasing

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Speaker 1: this episode this week. We're turning around pretty pretty fast.

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Speaker 1: So so yeah, we've we're on theme. You're a little

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Speaker 1: bit under the weather after an active week at the

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Speaker 1: Players Championship, so I appreciate you hopping on with me.

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Speaker 2: I'm ready to go.

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Speaker 3: I had a great experience at TPC Sawgrass on Monday,

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Speaker 3: and I'm ready to learn about what I should have

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Speaker 3: been learning while I.

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Speaker 2: Was out there.

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Speaker 1: You got to see a little bit of pretty high

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Speaker 1: level architecture out there. Now, I will say that when

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Speaker 1: it comes to TPC Sawgrass, routing isn't the main thing

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Speaker 1: about that course that is interesting because there, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are some interesting aspects of TPC Sawgrass is routing.

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Speaker 1: We can even talk about that in this in this

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Speaker 1: installment of of golf Architecture one on one. But there

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Speaker 1: wasn't much there to begin with. Yes, So it's not

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Speaker 1: like Pete Dye was looking at great landforms and thinking

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Speaker 1: about how to use them. The golf course could just

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Speaker 1: kind of go wherever because they were building everything Florida.

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Speaker 2: Baby, everything's flat. Just throw some stuff out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, golf course architecture is a different type of thing

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Speaker 1: in Florida for the most part. So we are talking

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Speaker 1: about routing today. What have you gathered about routing just

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Speaker 1: by you know, producing the Friday Golf podcast for a

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Speaker 1: little while. What sort of tidbits about this subject have

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Speaker 1: have you absorbed so far?

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Speaker 3: I think the different kind of different kinds of routing,

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Speaker 3: I guess. I'm sure there's a more technical term for it,

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Speaker 3: but an out and back where you come back after

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Speaker 3: the front nine and then go go back out again

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Speaker 3: and then circle back towards the clubhouse, or if you know,

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Speaker 3: of course that you just go out like all the

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Speaker 3: way out and you come back in after eighteen, like

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Speaker 3: there's no kind of circle back thing, and then kind

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Speaker 3: of using the land to the advantage of you know,

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Speaker 3: where you're placing holes, like how far is the walk

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Speaker 3: necessarily between holes maybe? Or sure how close things are together?

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Speaker 3: And I feel like it probably impacts you don't want

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Speaker 3: too many I feel like you could say this about

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Speaker 3: anything that we talked about in golf architecture what I want,

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Speaker 3: but you don't want too many of the same type

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Speaker 3: of holes next to each other, Like you don't want

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Speaker 3: a bunch of basic, you know, straight par fours next

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Speaker 3: to each other. So I feel like that probably has

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Speaker 3: something to do with routing.

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Speaker 1: Question mark absolutely all of those things pertain to the

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Speaker 1: subject of routing, and we can kind of build a

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Speaker 1: framework here where you can fit some of those fragments

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Speaker 1: that you've that you've gathered over time. But all of

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Speaker 1: that that you're saying, we're going to touch on in

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Speaker 1: this discussion. So just by way of establishing a definition

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Speaker 1: of routing, what is routing? Basically it means identifying the

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Speaker 1: locations of the tees, fair ways, and greens for each

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Speaker 1: hole and then linking those features together into full holes

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Speaker 1: and sequences of holes that become the golf course. So

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's really about building up from a

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Speaker 1: topographical map, from a piece of land a layout of

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Speaker 1: a golf course.

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Speaker 2: As it is craziest.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand how anybody could do that. I'm not

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Speaker 3: a visual learner. I don't like see things when they're

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Speaker 3: on a page in front of me that I could

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Speaker 3: just my brain just does that. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: you could just look at a map and be like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's a golf course there. That's the craziest thing to me.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand how it ever happens.

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Speaker 1: What kind of learner are are you? By the way,

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Speaker 1: I should probably know this.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I need to read things.

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Speaker 3: I'm not the textual. Yeah, it's not in the abstract,

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Speaker 3: not in the abstract at all. If I read it,

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Speaker 3: I'll remember it.

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Speaker 2: But I don't.

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Speaker 3: I can't do anything that involves visualizing anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of the same way. I'm pretty textual. But

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Speaker 1: auditory also is helpful, and those are those are kind

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Speaker 1: of separate paths that different students benefit from. Anyway, that's

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Speaker 1: that's going back into my teacher's bag. But in any case,

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Speaker 1: it is It is hard to overstate how important routing is.

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of surprised, actually we haven't covered the topics

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Speaker 1: so far. In golf architecture one on one, A strong

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Speaker 1: routing is often the thing that separates a good golf

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Speaker 1: course from a mediocre golf course. It is the skeletal

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Speaker 1: structure of a course, and just from a practical standpoint,

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Speaker 1: if you have a good routing, so many things about

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Speaker 1: the course just work better. The course will likely be

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Speaker 1: cheaper to build than you would expect, it will drain better,

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Speaker 1: it will be more walkable, the pace of play will

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Speaker 1: be better. And most important, a good routing is, in

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Speaker 1: my mind, the key thing that makes for an enjoyable

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Speaker 1: playing experience, even if the players not really aware of

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Speaker 1: the fact that the routing is creating pleasure. It's not

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Speaker 1: something that golfers normally think about in those terms, because

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Speaker 1: you like, a good routing is harder to perceive than

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Speaker 1: really high level conditioning or interesting bunker shapes or cool

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Speaker 1: greens or whatever. Right, routing is sort of the invisible

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Speaker 1: factor that influences everything about the course but never fully

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Speaker 1: shows itself, And often it's the thing that makes you

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Speaker 1: enjoy a course that otherwise might not have that much

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Speaker 1: going for it. If you have a course that's not

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Speaker 1: in very good shape, or has lost a bunch of

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Speaker 1: bunkers over time, or is over tr read, but you

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Speaker 1: play it and you're like, why did I enjoy that

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Speaker 1: so much? Usually it's because the course has a solid routing.

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Speaker 1: So when someone says a municipal golf course or an

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Speaker 1: affordable golf course has good bones, often I think what

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Speaker 1: they really mean is that it has a good routing.

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Speaker 1: Does that resonate with you or remind you of any

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Speaker 1: courses that you've played.

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Speaker 2: It's a good question.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I don't know if the off the top of

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Speaker 3: my head necessarily but I mean that makes sense. Like

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Speaker 3: I hear you guys talk about good good bones all

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Speaker 3: the time, and how you know if X, Y and

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Speaker 3: Z or restored or fixed that it could get a

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Speaker 3: lot better. But you need the uh, you need the

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Speaker 3: basic golf holes to exist before you can put the

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Speaker 3: kind of finishing touches on everything. So I feel like

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Speaker 3: that's a that's a good way to think about it,

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Speaker 3: that you just laid out, That just clicked, That just

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Speaker 3: clicks something in me.

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Speaker 1: There a lot of the courses at Bethpage, aside from

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Speaker 1: the Black Horse, are your classic good bones golf courses.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Red course has really really good bones

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Speaker 1: and it's in good shape too.

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, I don't know if I

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Speaker 3: didn't know if Red would apply necessarily, because I think

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Speaker 3: reddis everybody here loves Red more than they love Black, honestly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it definitely has a little bit more charm.

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Speaker 1: And again, you know, Okay, so the black Horse has

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Speaker 1: an exceptional routing, I think, but part of what makes

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Speaker 1: makes Red so pleasurable is that it's just a little

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Speaker 1: bit more fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: So, and I think part of the reason for that

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Speaker 1: is that the choices that were made in the routing

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Speaker 1: of that course lend themselves to fun rather than just

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Speaker 1: this kind of adventure of difficulty that the black course provides.

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Speaker 1: In any case, I think you know. One of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I think studying routing or no, a little not

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Speaker 1: studying it necessarily, just knowing a little bit about it

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Speaker 1: is important for golfers is that it can help you

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Speaker 1: appreciate golf courses that don't have huge maintenance budgets, right,

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Speaker 1: or that are otherwise maybe not very well known or

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Speaker 1: widely appreciated. It allows you to find hidden gems and

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Speaker 1: appreciate hidden gems because routing is something that a lot

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Speaker 1: of unexpected courses have a good routing right. And so

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Speaker 1: that's kind of what we're digging into in this episode,

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Speaker 1: the ability to appreciate golf courses for more than just

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Speaker 1: their kind of surface appearance or for the easy things

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Speaker 1: that there are to appreciate. We're talking about some of

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Speaker 1: the deeper things about golf courses that we can understand

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Speaker 1: and enjoy here. So what we'll cover two main topics

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Speaker 1: in this episode related to routing. The first will be

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Speaker 1: how an architect goes about routing a course, and the

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Speaker 1: second will be how a player can assess the quality

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Speaker 1: of a course's routing, and those are really two separate things,

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Speaker 1: so we'll talk about both of those things. But before

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Speaker 1: all of that, let's discuss the new Cobalt QZ six

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Speaker 1: slope rangefinder. The QZ six represents a significant leap in

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Speaker 1: golf rangefinder technology. Most rangefinders have fixed magnification right, but

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Speaker 1: the Cobalt QZ six has an optical zoom feature ranging

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Speaker 1: from six x to twelve X, so when you're on

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Speaker 1: the golf course, you can just see your target better.

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Speaker 1: You can identify your exact landing spot more clearly, you

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Speaker 1: can assess the contours of the fairway or the green

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Speaker 1: more easily. You can actually see the characteristics of a

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Speaker 1: pin placement. All that stuff is is pretty useful and

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Speaker 1: not something you typically get with a standard rangefinder. In

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Speaker 1: addition to zoom, the QZ six has Cobalts proprietary pin

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Speaker 1: sense and surge technologies which make locking onto the flag

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Speaker 1: fast and reliable. And it offers a total performance ranging

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Speaker 1: from five to twenty five hundred yards, including six hundred

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Speaker 1: plus yards to the pin and two thousand yards to trees.

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Speaker 1: And I stumbled on that five to twenty five hundred

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Speaker 1: yards because that's a big range right there. But that

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Speaker 1: is what this rangefinder offers, and that's actually what you

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Speaker 1: it out. Okay, let's get into a topic number one

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Speaker 1: for the day PG, which is how an architect routes

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Speaker 1: a golf course. Now, obviously, I myself have never routed

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Speaker 1: a golf course, so what I'm about to tell you

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Speaker 1: is really one big synthesis and simplification of things I've

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Speaker 1: learned from talking to architects and reading things that architects

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Speaker 1: have written. Maybe you should find a teacher for this

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Speaker 1: subject who has actually designed golf courses before. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm a bit of a charlotte in here.

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Speaker 1: So I'll do my best.

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Speaker 2: Though I think this is gonna be great.

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Speaker 3: I think because I know basically nothing, I think anything

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Speaker 3: is progress at this point.

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Speaker 1: One particular architect who is very informative on the subject

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Speaker 1: of routing and knows a lot more than I do

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Speaker 1: is Tom Doak. No one has done as much as

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Speaker 1: Doak specifically to popularize the discussion of routing. It is

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Speaker 1: really his signature topic. And one thing that Doak likes

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Speaker 1: to say that I always think about is that routing

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Speaker 1: a golf course is like putting together a puzzle, except

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Speaker 1: that you never know whether you've found the right answer.

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Speaker 1: There are many possible answers and results that the routing

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Speaker 1: process could yield, and you just can't know whether the

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Speaker 1: one you've come up with is the best one. You

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Speaker 1: just have to decide that it's good enough and you

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Speaker 1: sort of go with it. But most golf architects agree

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Speaker 1: broadly on the goal of routing, and that goal is

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Speaker 1: twofold one. You want to take advantage of a property's

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Speaker 1: best natural assets, and you especially want to take advantage

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Speaker 1: of its topography, which is to say, it's contour, undulation,

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Speaker 1: elevation change, et cetera. You want your holes to interact

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Speaker 1: with those features in an interesting way. Two, you're trying

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Speaker 1: to connect the holes you found in the landscape into

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Speaker 1: a walkable, compelling sequence. And we'll talk a little more

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Speaker 1: later about what makes for a good sequence of holes.

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Speaker 1: So those are the two goals that most architects would

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Speaker 1: agree on when it comes to routing. Maximize the natural

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Speaker 1: topography and connect the holes into a sequence that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So the first step in the routing process is to

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Speaker 1: familiarize yourself with the site. Often this is done remotely

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Speaker 1: using aerial photographs and what's called a topographic map or

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Speaker 1: topo map. Have you ever seen a topo map? Do

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Speaker 1: you know what these look like?

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Speaker 3: I have, because we have some on the website. I've

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Speaker 3: encountered it at some point, and some designing notebooks and

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Speaker 3: the whole desig contest, right, there was a map involved

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Speaker 3: in that, so I'm generally familiar. I wouldn't say I

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Speaker 3: know how to read it, but I've seen one before.

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Speaker 1: You know, some people just have this thing where they're

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Speaker 1: able to read a topo map and other people are

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Speaker 1: baffled by them. I think most people can get to

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Speaker 1: a state of competence with reading a topo map, but

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Speaker 1: they're certainly those who are talented at it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: what I want you to envision with a topo map

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Speaker 1: is a map of a site with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: curving lines one and these lines represent different elevations, and

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Speaker 1: so when the lines are close together, that means it's steep.

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Speaker 1: When the lines are far apart, that means that it's flatter, right,

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Speaker 1: And so that's that's kind of what you and you

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Speaker 1: learn to just sort of recognize ridges and valleys and

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Speaker 1: different topographical features by looking at a topo map. But

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Speaker 1: this is a this is a key tool in the

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Speaker 1: routing process. It's really important. So you know, experienced architects

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Speaker 1: will often be able to come up with a rough

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Speaker 1: routing or at least a few options for routings just

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Speaker 1: by studying a topo map and identifying places where they

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Speaker 1: know holes will fit. But it's also critical to get

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Speaker 1: out to the property, walk around and see what will

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Speaker 1: work and what won't work. From the ground. Now, in

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Speaker 1: those initial stages of routing, architects are typically looking first

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Speaker 1: for green sites. They're looking for interesting features to build

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Speaker 1: greens into because greens are the focal point of a

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Speaker 1: golf course, So if you want to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: a property's best natural assets, right, if that's goal number

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Speaker 1: one of routing, If you want to draw the player's

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Speaker 1: attention to interesting features in the landscape, the best way

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Speaker 1: to do that is to build your greens into those

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Speaker 1: features because players really spend the most time on the greens,

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Speaker 1: and the most interesting stuff happens and important stuff happens

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Speaker 1: on the greens. So again, maximizing natural topography means finding

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Speaker 1: good places to put greens. You're also just looking for

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Speaker 1: places where greens can be constructed and maintained relatively easily.

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Speaker 1: So on steep properties, you're trying to actually identify flatter

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Speaker 1: areas where you could naturally put a green that would

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Speaker 1: be functional, because if you put a green on a

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Speaker 1: piece of land that is too steep, then the ball

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Speaker 1: is not going to stay on it, right, It's not

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Speaker 1: going to work. So if you have a very hilly

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Speaker 1: or just big, you know, tilted site, what you're looking

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Speaker 1: for on the topa map is those places where the

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Speaker 1: lines are farther apart so that you can actually naturally

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Speaker 1: place a green there without having to build big structures

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Speaker 1: to hold to hold the green up flat on flat properties,

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Speaker 1: you really have the opposite problem. What you're looking for

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Speaker 1: on flat properties is whatever topographical features there might be,

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Speaker 1: and that's where you'll want to locate at the greens.

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Speaker 1: So if you have a flatter property and you're looking

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Speaker 1: at the topa map, you're looking more for where the

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Speaker 1: lines are closer together, because you might actually have some

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Speaker 1: interesting landforms there that you can tie greens into. You

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Speaker 1: don't just want to build greens on plane flat land.

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Speaker 1: I mean sometimes you have to do that, but it's

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Speaker 1: not preferred. You want to hook your greens into interesting features. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So once you have located some green sites, then you

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Speaker 1: can start looking for fairways or especially landing zones for

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Speaker 1: tea shots, because landing zones in some ways are similar

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Speaker 1: to greens where where you need it to be functional,

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Speaker 1: You need the ball to be able to stay there.

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Speaker 1: You need something of the right size and relative flatness

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Speaker 1: to work as a fairway. And also you want your

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Speaker 1: fairways to be interesting. You don't want them just to

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Speaker 1: be flat, so you know, find some top graphical features

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Speaker 1: to route your fairways over. Now, often fairways are best

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Speaker 1: placed in valleys or along the crest of a ridge,

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Speaker 1: or just on gentle slopes or gently undulating ground. That's

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Speaker 1: where fairways work. Green sites can be kind of smaller, right,

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Speaker 1: Fairway sites have to be generally broader. And then finally

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Speaker 1: you can find some tees or locations for putting different teas.

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Speaker 1: But this isn't quite as important because tees are small

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Speaker 1: and they can be built relatively easily, even on ground

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Speaker 1: that isn't well suited naturally to a tee. So you

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Speaker 1: found your greens, you found your fairways, you found your tees.

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Speaker 1: So basically what architects are doing in the early stages

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Speaker 1: of routing is looking for the best natural locations for

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Speaker 1: playing areas, and that is greens, fairways and all that

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Speaker 1: makes sense.

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Speaker 2: So far, that does make sense. I think when when.

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Speaker 3: You when you're looking for a green on the topo map,

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Speaker 3: is that just for the green itself or the entire

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Speaker 3: green complex of like what you're looking to do with

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Speaker 3: the green, like bunkers or slopes to the side of it,

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Speaker 3: or you just trying to put the actual putting surface down.

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Speaker 1: I think you're looking for a good place for an

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Speaker 1: entire green complex, okay, And you know the reason for

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Speaker 1: that is sometimes the topographical features that you use for

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Speaker 1: a green complex are not within the putting surface itself necessarily.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just good to put a green kind of

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Speaker 1: near a really interesting topographical feature. If there's like a

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Speaker 1: big abrupt knoll, you're not gonna put the green on

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Speaker 1: top of it because you'd have to you'd have to

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Speaker 1: move some earth to to make that happen. But if

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Speaker 1: you put the being kind of next to it, then

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to look at because you're you're you're orienting

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Speaker 1: the player's vision toward that cool landform, and you know

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Speaker 1: it might not factor into the putting surface itself, but

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Speaker 1: the green complex ties into it. But it's there, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's just you know, a lot of what

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Speaker 1: architects are doing a routing is just pointing players at

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Speaker 1: the cool features of the landscape.

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Speaker 2: Cool.

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Speaker 1: That brings us to the second major step in routing

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Speaker 1: a golf course, which is connecting these sites for greens,

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Speaker 1: fairways and tees into a full sequence of golf holes.

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Speaker 3: Now, this is this is where you lose it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is this is the crazy part where you know,

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Speaker 3: good luck. I'm happy people do it, but I don't

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Speaker 3: understand how we get there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you think so, because I feel the

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00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: same way about it. It's it just seems impossible, right

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Speaker 1: If you start by looking for all these separate green

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Speaker 1: sites and fairway landing zones, how do you even start

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00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 1: to construct golf holes out of that stuff? Much less

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Speaker 1: a full sequence of eighteen holes, much less a sequence

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Speaker 1: of eighteen holes as it has a part of seventy

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Speaker 1: two in a yardage of the way you know, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. This is really where the puzzle metaphor kicks in,

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Speaker 1: because yes, it is very tricky to link together all

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Speaker 1: these different spots into anything resembling a conventional golf course. Now,

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Speaker 1: one key thing that skillful architects do is that they

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Speaker 1: suit the length and type of hole to the character

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Speaker 1: of the land. Often this means putting shorter holes on

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Speaker 1: more severe land and longer holes on less severe land.

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00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: And the reason for that is that a long hole

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00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: on severe land will require probably a lot of earth

380
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: moving to build and will usually be very difficult to play.

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Speaker 1: So it's just more practical to put short holes on

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Speaker 1: the most severe kind of transitional sections of the property.

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Speaker 1: But the architects should also have a sense of winter

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Speaker 1: viholate that principle to create something unique and exciting. So

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Speaker 1: you know, the open last year was at Royal Port Rush.

386
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Speaker 1: A famous hole at Royal Port Rush is the sixteenth

387
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: Calamity Corner. Yes, it is a par three, so I

388
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: guess technically a short hole, but it's a long part three.

389
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: This is not a one hundred and forty yard part three.

390
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: This is a very long strike and it's on an

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00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 1: incredibly severe piece of land. It's it's you know, kind

392
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: of on the edge of this huge canyon. And that

393
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: hole is incredibly memorable, really a great great golf hole,

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00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: and it is it is function, it does work, it's playable.

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Speaker 1: But in that instance, the architect had a sense in

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Speaker 1: the architect being in this case, Harry Colet had a

397
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: sense for when to use a severe piece of land

398
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Speaker 1: for a longer hole relative to par because he was looking,

399
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: he was he was shooting for the star there, right.

400
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: Probably the conventional thing to do with that piece of

401
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: land would have been to create a short part three there,

402
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: but but he went big and ended up with with

403
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: something great. So with all of these kind of rules

404
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about, architects violate them when when they

405
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 1: see fit and that's what what makes golf architecture kind

406
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 1: of in art as opposed to an exact science.

407
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Speaker 3: You know, rules are meant to be broken. They're just guidelines.

408
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 3: They're they're there. It's fine. I feel like you can

409
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 3: you can get away. If you can do it well,

410
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 3: you can get away with it. And that's what people

411
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: make people like Calamity Corner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, greatness consists of knowing when to when to break

413
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: the rules, as as we've seen with you know, some

414
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: of the decisions that the Jets have made recently. They

415
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: might break the rules, they might violate common sense, but

416
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: you know, greatness is the goal and and greatness is

417
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: coming in the future.

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Speaker 3: Right. Uh, people would tell you that. I don't know

419
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,239
Speaker 3: if Hi Wood, but people would I feel like, you know,

420
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: our friend Harry Colton might be a little bit better

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00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 3: off than the Jets are.

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00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: But all right, obviously, you know, there's only so much

423
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: you can do on properties with just purely natural golf holes.

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00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: It's pretty rare that you would have, you know, a

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00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: routing consisting only of natural golf holes that you just

426
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: found in the landscape. So it is in this part

427
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: of the process that the architect decides which natural holes

428
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: to include, and then what must be done to link

429
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: those holes together. So say you have two great natural

430
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: holes that are just sitting there in the land waiting

431
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: to be grasped, and you want to use them. You

432
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: want to incorporate them into your routing. But between them

433
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: you have terrain that's not very well suited to golf.

434
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: Either it's extremely severe or it's too flat and boring.

435
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: Something needs to be manufactured there in order to bring

436
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: that hole up to the standard of the natural holes

437
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: on either side of it. And it's during the routing

438
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: stage that the architect decides, Okay, we'll make something out

439
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: of this piece of land in order to have these

440
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: two great natural holes, and really good architects are able

441
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: to make it seem like that bad piece of land

442
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: in the middle was actually good all along. You know where.

443
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: That's where the art of construction and design kicks in

444
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: later in the process. Okay, Now, once you've figured out

445
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: which holes go where, you have to consider the overall

446
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: sequencing of the golf course. Most clients, most developers, are

447
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: gonna want eighteen holes, two loops of nine, and a

448
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: par of seventy or above. They're gonna want two to

449
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: four par fives, four to five, par three's, tennish par fours.

450
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: So those are all the conventional things. You know. It's

451
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: good when developers are willing to not have those things,

452
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: I think, in order to allow the architect to just

453
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: work with land and find what's there. But most of

454
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: the time they're going to want those conventional numbers. They're

455
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: going to want a max yardage of more than seven

456
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: thousand yards, so right there, on most projects you have

457
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: a lot of standards to meet. But the more important

458
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: thing to me personally into a lot of good architects

459
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: is that the routing have some sort of variety, balance

460
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: and flow across the round. Whether that means it has

461
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: the usual composition of par four's, part three's and par

462
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: fives doesn't matter as much to me as long as

463
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: there is variety, balance and flow. And we can talk

464
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: a little bit later about about what those things mean. Variety,

465
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: balance and flow. Another thing that good architects look for

466
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: in this kind of connecting part of the process is

467
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: something you mentioned earlier, PJ, and that is reasonably short

468
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: grain to tea transitions, which we'll also talk about later.

469
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: But those are the basics of how an architect goes

470
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: about routing a golf course. Is there anything in there

471
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: that kind of stands out to you as surprising or notable?

472
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 3: I feel like not necessarily surprising, but when you have

473
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: just a blank canvas trying to having the guidelines to fit,

474
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: you know, I need seventy two hundred yards and I

475
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: need eighteen holes of a par seventy two, So I

476
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: can't get like super creative, Like I don't know, like

477
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: you said, is there room for more open interpretation in

478
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: new builds now, where like maybe it's a bar like

479
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: sixty eight and it's a little shorter and there's more

480
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 3: to get creative with?

481
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: Or are are is the tradition of.

482
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: You know, par seventy two eighteen holes nine and nine

483
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: kind of thing?

484
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: Is that still?

485
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 3: I feel like it's still the prevailing theory, But is

486
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 3: there more kind of latitude with that now?

487
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: I think there is more latitude with that now. And

488
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: that's partly because we have developers like the Kaiser family

489
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: who are open to crazy ideas from the likes of

490
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: Tom Doak to have you know, a PAR sixty eight

491
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: course like like Sedge.

492
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: Valley, So he does he just see that on a map,

493
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 3: like he just gets the map and is like, I

494
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: can only build you know, however long this is going

495
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: to be like sixty eight hundred yards, so it's got

496
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 3: to be a par sixty eight.

497
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: Is that how it works?

498
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: I don't think that in that case he looked at

499
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: the map and said, I can only build a par

500
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: sixty eight course here. I think what Doak did on

501
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: the Sedge Valley project at Sand Valley was that he

502
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: assessed this piece of land and saw that it kind

503
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: of had these sort of smaller pockets in the property,

504
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: like there were kind of more severe crowded undulations in

505
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: that property as compared to like Mammoth Dunes or Sand Valley,

506
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: which have more kind of broad slopes. And his general

507
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: impression was what would fit really well here is kind

508
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: of a sporting golf course that's a little bit shorter,

509
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't have the max yardage of seven thousand or above,

510
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,239
Speaker 1: that doesn't have the max par of seventy two. Just

511
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: something smaller would fit. And I think also Doke independently

512
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: wanted to build a course like this, wanted to challenge

513
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: the notion that a course had to have a part

514
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: of seventy two and a certain yardage, So I think

515
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: it was a combination of looking at that site and

516
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: just having a general sense that a smaller course would

517
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: fit here, but also I kind of want to build

518
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: this type of course just to get people thinking a

519
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: little bit. Now. Douk, as I mentioned before, is an

520
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: intellectual of routing, like this is his big subject. He's

521
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: written books about the routing process. He loves talking about it,

522
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: and it's something that he's brought to the four more

523
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: than any architect has done, I think in the history

524
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: of the profession, and so he does love these experiments

525
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: in routing. He's done a reversible course, for instance, at

526
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: the Loop at Forest Dunes in Michigan, and Pacific Dunes.

527
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: His big kind of breakout design has some really interesting

528
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: elements of its routing. It has back to back par threes,

529
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: it does not have returning nines. At that point in

530
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: golf architecture history, those things were unusual, and I think

531
00:31:54,600 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: courses like Pacific Dunes have made them more acceptable. Yes,

532
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: we are seeing more experiments and routing. We're seeing a

533
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: willingness to challenge the usual conventions, and I think that's

534
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: a good thing because I think that architects have often

535
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: had to abandon the goal of maximizing natural topography for

536
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: the sake of meeting certain conventions in the past, and

537
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: I would rather architects just focus on maximizing the land. Now,

538
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: if you go way back in the history of golf,

539
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: you find even more interesting stuff. Before the eighteen whole

540
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: round became standardized, and it was really the old course

541
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: at San Andrews that standardized the eighteen hole par seventy

542
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 1: two round or par seventy sorry again San Andrews par

543
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: seventy two. I should know off that I'm getting old PJ.

544
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: But in any case, it standardized the eighteen whole round.

545
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: But before before that happened, before that became widely accepted,

546
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: you had seven whole golf courses, you had twelve whole

547
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: golf courses. People really were looking to fit a course

548
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: to the land rather than create an eighteen hole, par

549
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: seventy two golf course. And so there's some inspiration in

550
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: the deep past of golf. But you know, we've gotten

551
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: to the point with you know, USGA ratings and handicaps

552
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: that it's kind of hard to build a thirteen hole

553
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: golf course. But there is a little bit of wiggle room,

554
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: all right, So let's move on to the second half

555
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: of our episode. Here, I want to talk about how

556
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: you as a player can assess the routing of a

557
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: golf course. Now, this is this is really what's because

558
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: neither of us PJ probably is ever going to route

559
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: a golf course. I don't know. Maybe maybe we will.

560
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: We've got we've got a lot of life to.

561
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: Live, there's still time. I would call it unlikely. I

562
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: think you're more likely than me, But I don't know.

563
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 3: I could get on the sticks on two K and

564
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: see what happens too, I don't.

565
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: I haven't played around with that, but maybe I need

566
00:33:59,320 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: to after this.

567
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: That's very true. I've forgotten about virtual routing that that

568
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: is definitely a possibility for both of us. But in

569
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: any case, the most relevant thing to both of us

570
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: would be how do you play a golf course and

571
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: say whether it has a good routing or a poor routing?

572
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: And I don't think this is something that comes naturally

573
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: to most people, even even to people who are really

574
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: interested in golf architecture. Usually the quality of a routing

575
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: doesn't come up all that much, or you know, you know,

576
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: usually we're talking about whole design, strategic versus penal golf architecture,

577
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 1: or we're talking about green contouring or bunker shaping or

578
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: aesthetics or how good the land is. Those things are

579
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: easier to talk about, and I think the reason that

580
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: routing doesn't get talked about all that much from the

581
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: golfer's perspective is that it is hidden. It is subterranean,

582
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: so to speak. The golf course just goes where it goes,

583
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: and the player doesn't have a lot of visibility as

584
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: to where it could have gone instead. And furthermore, the

585
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: player really doesn't have any idea of the challenges or

586
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: the limitations that factored into the routing process. Maybe the

587
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: land didn't have that many natural green sites or fairway

588
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: landing zones. It's hard to tell when you just play

589
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: a golf course how much natural goodness was there for

590
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: the architect to work with. Maybe there were environmental regulations

591
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: that dictated where the holes could and couldn't go. Maybe

592
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: the golf course was just one part of a real

593
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: estate plan and the architect just had to accept the

594
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: land that he was given. These are things that we

595
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: just can't really know by playing a golf course, so

596
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: we have to be somewhat humble. I think when we're

597
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: talking about routing, because usually we don't know what we

598
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: don't know, and if there are problems in the routing,

599
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: the golf architect isn't necessarily to blame. At the same time,

600
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: our experience of the golf course is our experience of

601
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: the golf course, and if the routing seems bad, then

602
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: it's bad. Right. Maybe the golf architect isn't at fault,

603
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: But in the end, the course was built for the player,

604
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: and so it's fair for the player to offer an assessment.

605
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: That's kind of how I think about it. So with

606
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: all that said, I have five questions that you can

607
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: ask during your next round in order to evaluate the

608
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: routing of a golf course. These are just five specific

609
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: questions that you can ask of a golf course after

610
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 1: you've played it to see whether you think the routing

611
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: is effective fantastic. The first question, is there a variety

612
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: of good natural green sites. So greens can go on plateaus,

613
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: they can go in saddles, they can go on dolls

614
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: or punch bowls. They can be benched into a hillside

615
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: backwards or sideways. They can be on ground that tilts

616
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: to the left or tilts to the right. Or back

617
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: to front or front to back. They can have different

618
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: kinds of surrounding topographical features like creeks and ravines and

619
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: cliffs and rockout croppings and other natural hazards. So there

620
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: are all sorts of different places where greens can go,

621
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: and a good routing finds a variety of those places.

622
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: I think we've all played courses where the greens are

623
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: all kind of on the same type of landform, especially

624
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, on the top of ridges, just on hilltops.

625
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: There are certain courses where you know, it plays from

626
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: a tee down through a valley and back up on

627
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: a hill, over and over and over again. This is

628
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: a flaw in routing because you want variety. Yes, those

629
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: greens are great, they drain well, they're often very attractive,

630
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: they just work well. But you don't want only that

631
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: in a round of golf. You also want greens on

632
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 1: lower pieces of land or just more varied pieces of land. Okay,

633
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: So that's the first question. Is there a variety of

634
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: good natural green sites. Related to that is question two,

635
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: which is do the holes have a variety of topographical profiles?

636
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: And what I mean by this is how do the

637
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: holes move across the land? What is the terrain doing

638
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: over the course of the entire hole. So holes can

639
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: move uphill, they can move downhill. You can have a

640
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: flat drive followed by an uphill approach. You can have

641
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: a flat drive followed by a downhill approach. You can

642
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: have an uphill drive followed by a flat approach, et cetera,

643
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: et cetera, all those permutations. You can play ridge to

644
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: ridge like I just described earlier. You can play up

645
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: and over from a low te to a high fairway

646
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: to a low green. You can play sidehill. You can

647
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: play side hill in reverse camber where the hole kind

648
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: of goes up against the slope, dog legs up against

649
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: the slope. You can play side hill in positive camber

650
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 1: where the whole kind of dog legs with the slope.

651
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: You can play straight across the side hill. You can

652
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: have undulating holes in various ways. And then within each

653
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: of those categories that I just named, you have a

654
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: lot of different scales and iterations. Right, So that's the

655
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: topographical profile of a hole. Does it make sense when

656
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: I talk about topographical profile of a golf hole.

657
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you.

658
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: Not having any variety would be terrible, right, Like the

659
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 3: point if you're playing every hole flatter, everything goes uphill,

660
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: and you're just climbing, climbing, climbing the whole time, Like,

661
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 3: I don't know what the fun is in having to

662
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 3: hit different shots and what is presented to you. So

663
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 3: I feel like that, at least to me, of the

664
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 3: two questions so far, that one is an easier answer

665
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: than the first one that I would be able to

666
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 3: actively figure out as things are going, because I know

667
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: a direction I'm going.

668
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: Yes, And it's a little bit hard to you know,

669
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: answer the first question. You know, what are the green sites?

670
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: What are the natural features of the green sites? Because

671
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: greens are often so built that whatever the natural terrain

672
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: was previously might be a little bit concealed because the

673
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: green was just constructed up from a piece of land.

674
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: But as you see more courses, as you see more greens,

675
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: you start to be able to tell, you know, look

676
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: at the land in general around the green and kind

677
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: of discern what it was. And in both of those questions,

678
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: the topographical profiles of the holes and the natural green sites,

679
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: what you're looking for is variety. You're looking for things

680
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: to be changed up from hole to hole during the

681
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: round because that allows us to. That keeps things fresh,

682
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: that creates excitement and interest during the round of golf.

683
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: It helps you remember the round of golf, It tests

684
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 1: different shots. Variety is really the thing that a good

685
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: routing generates, and variety is one of the most important

686
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: aspects of a good golf course. So right there, you

687
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: see the importance of routing. But yeah, I mean, you know,

688
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: a clear flaw that some courses have is that they

689
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: kind of you know, the whole sort of move the

690
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: same way or you know, most commonly, what I see

691
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: is that very rarely do certain courses play along a

692
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: side hill. Right That's kind of a common flaw that

693
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: I see where the architect didn't really take advantage of

694
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: opportunities to have holes running along a tilt, because that

695
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: can create some really interesting golf trying to hold the

696
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: high side of the fairway to get an advantage, curving

697
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: the ball into the slope to try to hold that there.

698
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: Sidehill holes can be so interesting, but often architects disregard

699
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: them because they're focusing on the ridge to ridge hole,

700
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: or the uphill hole or the downhill hole. I think

701
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: having that extra element of the side hill hole is

702
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: really an indicator of a quality routing. All right, moving

703
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: on to the third question, does the course engage directly

704
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: with interesting natural features without overdoing it. Some courses, to

705
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: my eye, seem to go out of their way to

706
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: avoid the property's most compelling natural features, so you can

707
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: look at them, but you aren't playing over them, and

708
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: to me, this is really dissatisfying. Now, by the same token,

709
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: some courses are too direct in their approach to severe

710
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: topography and end up having too many blind shots and

711
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: just end up being exhausting to play. As you know,

712
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm okay with the occasional blind shot, but if it's

713
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: whole after whole after hole, that's an indication of a

714
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: flawed routing. That's an indication that the holes are moving

715
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: too directly over the most severe topography. So that's a

716
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: routing flaw as well. Well routed courses incorporate the property's

717
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: best natural assets while also having a sense of when

718
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: to use quieter land. There's a happy medium there somewhere. Now.

719
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 1: A giveaway of a flaw when it comes to asking

720
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: this question of a golf course is when the holes

721
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: are always just kind of moving through valleys, when they're

722
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: always just kind of on the flatter land at the

723
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: bottom of a valley, and you're instantly passing by the

724
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: ridges or the knolls instead of playing into them or

725
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: playing over them or doing something interesting with them. Often

726
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: the easiest thing to do in routing a golf course

727
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: is just to avoid the severe places, but that can

728
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: also make the golf course kind of boring. Question four.

729
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: Is there a well sequenced balance of whole types? And

730
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: a wholes type can be defined by par length, difficulty direction, right,

731
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: So this is we're starting to.

732
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: Let this one stands out to me.

733
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a terrible example because this is like

734
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 3: not the golf courses that we discussed on this this

735
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: wonderful podcast about we talk.

736
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: We talk about any golf courses here, any golf courses.

737
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:01,479
Speaker 3: Drumlin's Country Club in Syracuse, New York, where I've played

738
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 3: more golf probably than I will ever play at any

739
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 3: place in my entire life, because I would just play

740
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 3: every day. You get to the top of this hill

741
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 3: to start the back nine, and holes nine ten or nine, eleven, thirteen, fourteen,

742
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 3: and sixteen are practically all the same hole.

743
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: They are just like straight.

744
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 3: I'll put a hill somehow in both directions and it's

745
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 3: just straight and there's one tree on the top of

746
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: this hill that basically shares like all of these holes,

747
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 3: and it is the most repetitive thing, and like it's

748
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 3: wide open, so you can play across the holes and.

749
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: It's like total it's insane.

750
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 3: And I, by the end of playing there for four

751
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: years as much as I could, you start to play

752
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: other golf courses and you go, oh, it's not supposed

753
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 3: to be like this.

754
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: Have to be this way. Yeah, yeah. Often we realize

755
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: that about the courses that we play when we're younger.

756
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: I certainly, Yeah, you come to think that certain things

757
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: are normal, but then you play another course and you're like, oh, yeah, okay, yes,

758
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: that is what you're describing is a routing flaw that

759
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: is a fault in the routing process of the design.

760
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: So that's a great example, and it's not necessarily a

761
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: problem that across the round you might have holes that

762
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 1: are this way. The problem is is that they're all

763
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: back to back to back, right. The problem is that

764
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: they're not spread out. So that's a sequencing issue, and

765
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: that's what we're getting into right now with these kind

766
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: of last three questions that we're asking about the routing

767
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: of the golf course. The first three are talking about

768
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: the location of the holes, the sighting of the holes.

769
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 1: Is there a variety of good natural green sites, Do

770
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: the holes have a variety of topographical profiles? Does the

771
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 1: course engage directly interesting natural features without overdoing it? Those

772
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: questions relate to where the architect put the holes. It's

773
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: in you know, those are in the part of the

774
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: process where the architect is maybe looking at the topographical

775
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: map or walking the site and identifying good natural features

776
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: to try to maximize this fourth question here, is there

777
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: a well sequenced balance of hole types? Has to do

778
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: with putting all those holes together and the order in

779
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: which they appear in the round. So, in addition to

780
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, which is a you know, how

781
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: how holes use the land, whole type can also pertain

782
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: to par three's, par fours and par fives. You don't

783
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: want four par threes in a row. You don't want

784
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: four par fives in a row. You want them spread

785
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: out throughout the round. A balance of long holes and

786
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: short holes, the balance of difficult holes and easy holes. Again,

787
00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: it's okay to have five long holes in relation to

788
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 1: par over the course of a round. You just don't

789
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: want them all in the same place in the round.

790
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: You want a balance of straight holes and dog legs

791
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: left and dog legs right. You want maybe a few

792
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 1: zigzag holes that move both directions. You want a balance

793
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: of into the wind holes down wind holes, holes where

794
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: the wind is coming in off the right or off

795
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: the left, or holes where the wind is quartering. This

796
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: is also a very common flaw in poorly routed golf

797
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: courses where the holes are all kind of sitting along

798
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: to axes right, either either going one direction or going

799
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: the opposite direction, and kind of packed in like sardines

800
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: on the property. That can be a very easy way

801
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: to rout a golf course because you're packing a lot

802
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: of holes into the property. But the problem is that,

803
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 1: in relation to whatever the wind is that day, you're

804
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: facing the same kind of shot over and over and

805
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: over and over. Like you're you're looking at the sun

806
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: in certain ways. So say the sun is setting and

807
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: a lot of the holes point at the sun, then

808
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: then you're having Then you're having a hard time. So

809
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: there are many reasons that you want holes moving in

810
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: all sorts of different directions. Now, you just played TPC

811
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: sawgrass the Stadium course. To me, the most exceptional thing

812
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: about TPC sawgrass is routing is its balance and variety

813
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 1: in whole types difficult holes, long holes, holes traveling different directions.

814
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: Something that Pete die always did is he had his

815
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: par fours are almost always did is he had his

816
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: par fours pointing in four different directions, and that I

817
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: believe is the case of TPC Sagrass. So if you

818
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: have a certain wind on a certain day, then those

819
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: par threes are going to be relating to the wind differently.

820
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: And also there there's a short par three there, and

821
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: there's a very long part three, and then there are

822
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: a couple of par threes that are maybe somewhere in

823
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: the middle. So that balance and variety of par three

824
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: holes is a signature of Pete Dye's design and something

825
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: that he really thought about when he was designing a

826
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: golf course. Is this something that you picked up on

827
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: as you were playing the course, this kind of balance

828
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: of different types of holes.

829
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, And I mean especially after like walking it

830
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 3: all week for the players and then actually getting to

831
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 3: play it, I definitely had a new found appreciation.

832
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 2: Like my favorite hole is to watch.

833
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 3: I think I was biased ended up being my favorite

834
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 3: holes to play as well.

835
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 2: Because I was just most excited to play those.

836
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 3: But I feel like everything was just sequenced so well,

837
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 3: and it definitely helped that I was like overly familiar

838
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 3: with the golf course, and I knew what every hole

839
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 3: was and I knew what was coming next. But I

840
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 3: think like, as you're going through and playing it, like

841
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 3: you know you're gonna get beat up on, like you know,

842
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: nine and ten, and then you get a little bit

843
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 3: of a lull on twelve and thirteen might be a

844
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 3: little bit easier, and then fourteen is going to punch

845
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 3: you in the face again. And it's a good little

846
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 3: like there's he puts the pedal down and then he

847
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 3: relaxes it for two holes, and then you you maybe

848
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: go up a little bit, and then by the time

849
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 3: you get to sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, everything is just full

850
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 3: gas pedals through the floor. And I really appreciated that

851
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 3: that it felt like, you know, every time that you

852
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 3: had a hole that was overly difficult, there was always

853
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: like kind of a reprieve around the corner.

854
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And that is a testament to Die's ability

855
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: to sequence holes, to link holes together into balanced, flowing,

856
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: varied sequences. He was so good at that. Now, a

857
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: lot of what we've discussed in this episode maximizing natural

858
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 1: features is not really pertinent to most of Pete Die's designs,

859
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: because he was often building golf courses on swamps and

860
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 1: deserts and sites that didn't have much to offer. Now,

861
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: when his sites did have some natural features to maximize,

862
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: he generally did a good job of going after them.

863
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: But a lot of what he did with routing that

864
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: was really good was create sequences of holes that had

865
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: variety within them. Yes, he would always give you a

866
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: kind of reprieve after a very difficult hole. You'd just

867
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: consider the closing stretch. Right, Fifteen is an incredibly hard hole,

868
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: sixteen is an opportunity, seventeen is scary but scorable, and

869
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 1: then eighteen is very difficult. So you know, right there

870
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: you have in terms of just difficulty, you have such

871
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 1: a variety of holes there. And then you can also

872
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: talk about just in that sequence, you know, how many

873
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: different variations of a golf hole are explored, with the

874
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: way the holes kind of turn or the direction that

875
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: they travel, or you know, et cetera, et cetera. Variety

876
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: is really Pete Die's specialty and something that comes out

877
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: in its golf courses consistently. All right, Fifth question, are

878
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: the green to tea transitions short enough to walk comfortably?

879
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 1: And if they're not short, are they at least interesting?

880
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: So I think one key to a good green to

881
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: tea transition is that it moves you forward to a

882
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: new part of the property. In those cases, the transition

883
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: can be kind of long and still be enjoyable. But

884
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: if the green to tea transition takes you backwards over

885
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: land that you've just seen or played over, then it

886
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: is less enjoyable. Then it feels like an interruption that

887
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: takes you out of the flow of the round. So

888
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: I think the key with green to tea transitions is yes,

889
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: they should be They should be short. They really should be,

890
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: because otherwise the course becomes hard to walk, pace of

891
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: place suffers, and you start forcing people to use carts,

892
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: which is a big bugaboo of mine. I just don't

893
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,240
Speaker 1: think a golf course can be great and also only

894
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 1: be navigated with a golf cart, because I think walking

895
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: is that the soul of the game. But a lot

896
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: of people are less radical on that issue than I am.

897
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: But the key thing really is that the green to

898
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: tea transition doesn't take you out of the round. It

899
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 1: doesn't cause you to lose your focus on the experience

900
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: or the golf course. And a poor green to tea

901
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 1: transition can do exactly that. It takes you out of it.

902
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: You stop thinking about the course, you stop thinking about

903
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 1: the land, you start thinking about the golf and you're

904
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 1: just kind of frustrated. Okay, now where do I have

905
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: to go? I have to walk backwards to get to

906
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: this next tea. That doesn't feel good.

907
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 3: You always want to, at least mentally for me, I

908
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 3: feel like you always want the illusion of moving forward, right,

909
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: Just yeah, move keep going in the direction that you

910
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: think you're going to be going, not having to walk back.

911
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 3: Especially if you're like me and you know you put

912
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 3: up a big number on a hole and then you've

913
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 3: got to.

914
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: Walk past it to move on, it's not as fun.

915
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: You always want to feel like you're discovering something new. Yeah, So,

916
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 1: in that sense, a lengthy green to tea transition can

917
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: sometimes be If it's like a well designed green to

918
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: tea transition, it can be kind of pleasurable. And my

919
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: favorite example of this is bandon trails, where there are

920
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: a lot of long green to tea transitions, but you

921
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: can see that the architects put effort into the transitions themselves.

922
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 1: The paths are really interesting between the holes, and they're

923
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: always moving you to something new. They're always revealing something

924
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: to you. So you're okay with walking a long way

925
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: between holes because it's part of the pleasure of the round.

926
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: So when the green to tea transitions are long, they

927
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: should at least be moving you forward, moving you to

928
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: something new. But usually I would say that a sign

929
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: of a good routing is that the green to tea

930
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: transitions are short and very manageable. You're walking off the

931
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: green and onto the next tee pretty quickly. Final question.

932
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: Sixth and final question, and this one is kind of

933
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: kind of funky. Does the routing have a sense of story?

934
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: Does it have a sense of narrative to it? Is

935
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:30,879
Speaker 1: there rising and falling action? Is there a culmination in

936
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: an exciting finish? So I think the best routings don't

937
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: just pack all of the excitement into one part of

938
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: the round, especially not in the beginning part of the round.

939
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: They distribute the high points throughout and then save some

940
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: sort of big flourish for toward the end of the round.

941
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 1: One of the great examples of routings that have that

942
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: tell different story and are more or less effective is

943
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: the kind of three famous courses along seventeen mile drive

944
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: in Pebble Beach, Spyglass Hill, Cypress Point and Pebble Beach.

945
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: Spyglass Hill. Starts off with a bang. It takes you

946
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: downhill spectacular first hole takes you plunging toward the ocean

947
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: and into the dunes, and for the next few holes

948
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: you're playing in the dunes. But then you climb back

949
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: up into the forest and you spend the rest of

950
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: the round up in the forest, and it's beautiful up there.

951
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: But you're like, wait, am I done with the dunes?

952
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: Like are we really Is that really it? We're just

953
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 1: going to visit them once at the beginning of the

954
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: round and we're going to spend the rest of the

955
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: round up here. That's a little disappointing. Pebble Beach, on

956
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: the other hand, you start inland and you make your

957
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: way out to the coast. You're on the coast from

958
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: hole four to hole ten. Then you go back inland,

959
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: wind back and a figure eight motion and you get

960
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: back out to the coast on seventeen and eighteen. So

961
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 1: you've got that high point in the middle of the round,

962
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: spectacular holes along the coast, and then you come back

963
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: to the ocean for the grand finale. Cyprus Point is

964
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: a little more complex, but also has a sense of narrative,

965
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: a sense of story. You go into the forest and

966
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: back out to the dunes, into the forest, back out

967
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: into the dunes, and then finally you make your way

968
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: out to the coast for fifteen, sixteen and seventeen, and

969
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: then there's some falling action at the end where you

970
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: climb back up through the forest to the clubhouse. That

971
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: is sense of story, That is sense of narrative in

972
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,959
Speaker 1: a golf round right there. And it's different from Pebble Beach,

973
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: but you have a feeling of a full structured round

974
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: in a way that you kind of don't at Spyglass Hill.

975
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: So does this makes sense as a concept, a sense

976
00:58:58,640 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: of narrative and a.

977
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 3: Round of gold, Yeah, I think so. I think it's

978
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 3: something I think it might be easier to look at, well,

979
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 3: like after you play rather than while you're playing, because

980
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 3: you're not so worried about you know, actually hitting the

981
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 3: shots and the action of doing but I think it's

982
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 3: easier to look back on and see how you can

983
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 3: see your own rises and falls throughout the round and

984
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 3: what the course kind of provided to make that happen

985
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 3: for you.

986
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, good stories are not just one

987
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: high point after another that becomes exhausting. Good stories have

988
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: a sense of when to go big and when to

989
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: go subtle, and how to save some of the most

990
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: interesting stuff. The big action scene or the big reunion

991
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: between the happy couple. You know, you don't want that

992
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: to happen a third of the way through the movie.

993
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: You want that to happen toward the end. Maybe not

994
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: exactly at the end, but but but in the closing

995
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: stretch of the film. And a really good routing has

996
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: a feeling of that timing. It's different at every golf course,

997
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: but it's certainly something that sets the really great courses apart.

998
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: And again going back to TPC Sagras, there's clearly a

999
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: big finale at TPC Sagras. Die had a sense of drama,

1000
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: a sense of narrative in the course of that round,

1001
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: and he deployed those high points and those more subtle

1002
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: points really smartly, really well in TPC Sagras.

1003
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 3: Uh. Yeah, there's a there's a bit of a crescendo

1004
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 3: there at the end. You think that you're little bit

1005
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 3: you're looking forward to the whole time and then and

1006
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 3: and see what happens. But I I mean, I think

1007
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 3: there's plenty of highlights in the middle that gets you

1008
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 3: to that part. I mean, after a whole week of

1009
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 3: watching it be played in the tournament, I was excited

1010
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,439
Speaker 3: to play every hole, but I guess in a normal week,

1011
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 3: like I don't know, even then, like I didn't feel

1012
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 3: like there was anything that was like lulling me to sleep.

1013
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 2: Really, I was just excited to be out there. And

1014
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 2: maybe that's me, but I don't know.

1015
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of high points during the round.

1016
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: But you know, like whole three, the par three, Yes,

1017
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: this isn't kind of the most memorable hole in the world.

1018
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: You know, there are a few holes sprinkled through the

1019
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: back nine that that aren't that aren't gung ho and

1020
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: in throwing, you know, cool stuff in your face shot

1021
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: after shot, so there is a little bit of rising

1022
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: and falling action there. But it's true the TPC Sawgrass

1023
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: is an action packed round. It is an action movie,

1024
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, whereas whereas other courses might might belong to

1025
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: other genres, they might be the historical.

1026
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 3: I kind of I like that. Thinking of it as

1027
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 3: a movie is like a type of movie. I like

1028
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 3: that a lot.

1029
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 1: Well, Tbczagra. Certainly you wouldn't. You wouldn't call it a

1030
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: romantic comedy. No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't call it a western.

1031
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: I think I think it's it's like diehard, you know, yeah,

1032
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: or or you know, an identity.

1033
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: In honor of ludicrous. I think it's maybe a fast

1034
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 2: and furious movie that's perfect.

1035
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you found it, you found it PJ. All right.

1036
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: So those are the six questions that you can ask

1037
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: about how to about a course's routing, and that can

1038
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: help you, you know, assess whether you think a routing

1039
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: of a course is effective or ineffective. So we've talked about,

1040
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: you know, how an architect approaches a routing. We've talked

1041
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: about how a player can evaluate a routing. Any big

1042
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: takeaways from all this, Any any moments during during this

1043
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: episode that will stand out to you and that you'll

1044
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: you'll take home with you.

1045
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 3: Is there a question or an aspect of routing that

1046
01:02:58,240 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: you feel is more important.

1047
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 2: Than the others.

1048
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: That's a great question, like.

1049
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 3: If you're ranking these in waiting or priority, like does

1050
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 3: something matter more to me?

1051
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: They're all really important, But I have a pet peeve

1052
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: about courses that don't have good green to tea transitions.

1053
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: That is not the most important thing to me, but

1054
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: I will mention that it's something that drives me crazy

1055
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: when those aren't well worked out. I think that question

1056
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: number two, if I were to pick a question in

1057
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: those six that we covered, that is most important to me.

1058
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 1: Question number two, do the holes have a variety of

1059
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: topographical profiles? To me, that's incredibly, incredibly important just through

1060
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: the course of the eighteen whole round, that the holes

1061
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: use the land in different ways, And it's such a

1062
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: clear indicator to me of a really quality golf course

1063
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: as opposed to one that's kind of mediocre or not

1064
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: as thought through from a design perspective, the courses where

1065
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: the holes have a variety of relationships to the land

1066
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: are the ones that are really well designed and that

1067
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: I think tend to stand up on repeat plays more

1068
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: than anything else. Sequencing also is you know, if I

1069
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: were to choose a number two in order of importance.

1070
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: The sequencing of the holes, the balance, variety and flow

1071
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: of different hole types over the course of around also

1072
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: a very very important factor in the pleasure that a

1073
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: player might take in a round of golf, and flaws

1074
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: in that respect really stand out to players. They can

1075
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 1: really take you out of around. If you have three

1076
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: holes back to back to back that are kind of

1077
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 1: similar that it ruins it a little bit. And so

1078
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 1: those those two I think I would pick out. What

1079
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: about you, I mean, do you think are there any

1080
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: that stand out to you as as more important than

1081
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: the others?

1082
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 3: I agree on the sequencing I think is probably the

1083
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 3: most important, and it does if it gets too repetitive

1084
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 3: too quick, like you said, it does kind of like

1085
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 3: ruin the immersion because you just feel like you're going

1086
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 3: back and forth too many, too many times in a row.

1087
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 3: So I think that is the one that, at least

1088
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 3: actively in the action of playing and walking and being

1089
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 3: out there, is the one that I would be most

1090
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 3: conscious of.

1091
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I can definitely see that. Yeah, I

1092
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: saw that the concept of sequencing resonated with you, And

1093
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: that's a good indication of something to look for and

1094
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: think more about as you're playing golf, because it clearly

1095
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: has an effect on the enjoyment that you take in

1096
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 1: a round of golf. And that's you know, for me,

1097
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: in learning about golf architecture, your enjoyment and what you

1098
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: find to be important to taking pleasure in a round

1099
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: of golf is such a great guide for what to

1100
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 1: learn about in golf architecture. Sequencing is one of those things,

1101
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: and the act of sequencing and routing is so complicated

1102
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: that really only the best architects are able to do

1103
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: it well. And so that immediately guides you toward great

1104
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: golf courses and allows you to identify great golf courses

1105
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 1: just by thinking of the sequencing of the holes. So

1106
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: that's definitely something to hang on to. All right. So

1107
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: next time on designing Golf, we're going to have some

1108
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: pre master's content for you. But after the masters, keep

1109
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 1: an eye out for a special golf Architecture one oh

1110
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 1: one video. PJ doesn't know about this yet, I'm announcing

1111
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: it to him as well as to you. We'll record this.

1112
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: We need to give PG a chance to get well

1113
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 1: again and recover his voice, but we're going to talk

1114
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 1: about five great golf course routings, and that will be

1115
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: a video that we'll post on the YouTube channel and

1116
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: will apply some of these principles that we talked about

1117
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: in this episode. So everybody keep your eyes peeled for

1118
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: that on the YouTube channel in a few weeks after

1119
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: the Masters. We're going to do this after the Masters,

1120
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: all right, PJ, thank you for joining me. Always a

1121
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: pleasure to talk to you. That's another golf architecture one

1122
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: on one in the books. This episode of Designing Golf

1123
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: was produced by Will Balsam. Thank you Will. If you've

1124
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: been liking Designing Golf, if you've been enjoying golf Architecture

1125
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: one oh one, then make sure to see what we've

1126
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: got going on in Friday Golf Club. Go to the

1127
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: Frida Egg dot com slash membership to see what Frida

1128
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: Egg Golf Club offers. But we've got lots of golf

1129
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: architecture content happening in Friday Golf Club as well as

1130
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: a new member forum that's been really fun to participate in.

1131
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 1: Right now, some of our members are putting together and

1132
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:16,719
Speaker 1: a golf architecture family tree where they're tracing the links

1133
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: between different golf architects over time. It's a really cool project,

1134
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: and it's the example of the kind of stuff that

1135
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: we get up to in Friday Golf Club. Pretty nerdy,

1136
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,520
Speaker 1: but very very fun, and we're creating a great community

1137
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: in there. So check out Friday Golf Club, Thefrida egg

1138
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: dot com slash membership. Thank you for listening, and we'll

1139
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 1: be back again soon with another episode.