WEBVTT - Manipulating Markets and Insider Information | Cory Klippsten 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.239 Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptor Show, 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:19.320 and today I am joined by my good friend Corey 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.400 Clipston for a second time back on the show. He 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.319 is the founder and CEO of swan bitcoin company that 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.200 I talked about quite a bit. They're doing amazing things 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:30.600 in the space. But he's also very very educated, and 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:32.840 so there's some hot topics that I want to dig 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.480 in and I'm excited. So Corey, thanks for joining me today. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.320 That's great to be here. I know we've got a 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.519 good hit list here to run through and I'm excited 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.520 to dig again. Yeah. So, um Man, the bitcoin space 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:50.080 has been very turbulent and volatile lately. Anyone who's been 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.559 around bitcoin for any period of time knows that it's big. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.760 You know, it's very volatile and turbulent. UM in bowl 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:58.840 markets like we like we're kind of in right now. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.640 Um seeing drops aren't really abnormal. We're kind of at 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.240 like a fifty drop. We're kind of recovering from that now. 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.640 But it really seems to be driven by um news 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.000 as we might call it fud as opposed to like 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.919 more like fundamentals. What are you what are you seeing 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.400 or thinking about? In regards to that, Yeah, I actually 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.600 think the uh, basically what happens is when something gets 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.000 kind of overbought and there's too much leverage to the upside, 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.480 pretty much anything can kind of start that cascade down 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:32.119 and kind of wash the leverage out of the system. 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.920 So it actually doesn't matter whether it's you know, China mining, 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.640 fud or elon tweets or whatever. Almost anything will sort 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.680 of derail a rally that has gotten a bit overextended 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.080 with too much leverage and too much polishness. Hey guys, 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.440 let me just interrupt this interview real quick, just to 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.720 plug the show sponsor, and that is block Fi. Now. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.559 Block five is doing amazing things in the bitcoin finance space. 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.440 As a matter of fact, they've cracked some really big 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.280 news by in on the x c f TC UM 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.280 chair Chris gian Carlo Um, and they are one of 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.320 the most transparent, most heavily regulated UM companies inside the 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.880 United States, which gives me a lot of trust into 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.080 what their services are. Now, I've recently did a video 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.560 talking about how to retire off bitcoin, and you can 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.000 do that by leveraging debt and interest against bitcoin. And 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.480 block five is the number one company in the United 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.560 States or maybe in the world to go to and 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.560 use UM. They are leading the charges, are paying interest 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:31.240 on your bitcoin if you park it with them, or 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.519 you can borrow against it. Now, as I broke down 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.080 in that video, you can borrow against your bitcoin, and 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.000 when you take debt against it, it's not taxable. It's 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:40.799 not a taxable event. You can use that debt for 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:42.919 anything that you want, including to live off of, to 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.640 leverage up and buy more, or roll it into another asset. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.040 UM you can do something like I've done recently, like 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.079 sell some real estate put that money into bitcoin. Now 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.480 as that bitcoin price has risen, I'm able to borrow 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:55.520 against it and go back and buy the same real 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.240 estate or something similar, and I still own the bitcoin, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.440 and I also own the new asset as well. Lots 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.640 of ways you can do this UM and Block five 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.519 is the company that I recommend. Down in the description, 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.160 I have a link that you can click on. If 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:09.560 you choose to use that link, you can earn up 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.440 the two fifty dollars in bitcoin just for using that link. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.720 So check out blockfine. Now for where we are in 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.040 the cycle, so you know, I see it as healthy. Well, 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.240 we went to like sixty five, back to thirty three, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.639 back up to forty. Like this feels fine. It feels 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.280 very much like the pull backs that we had in 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:30.320 shape and size and duration. And you know, I'm I'm 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.200 not worried. And again it doesn't matter. Just zoom out 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.880 at the end of the day. Like any sat you 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.480 stack with bitcoin under a million dollars before is cheap. 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.960 So yeah, you know, we just recommend just just keep 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.480 buying with some spare change according to your plan whenever 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.000 you can. And uh, and and just keep on accumulating 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.960 and never sell. Yeah. Well, let's dig into a couple 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.440 of the big pieces that, um we're there, and and 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.440 really they were kind of one and the same, right, 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.000 so you kind of briefly mentioned those. So the China 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.840 Fund fear, uncertainty and doubt. Um, so the fun about 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.640 the mining and and uh, it's a pretty pretty ironic 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:09.720 for big for China to say that they want to 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:14.520 stop mining on dirty energy, especially when they're just announced 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.680 last year or last year they just brought on three 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.640 times the amount of coal power plants is anywhere the 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.080 rest of the world. Um. But at the same time, 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.640 I think what probably really kicked that into gear was 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.560 Elon Musk, who had really come out, um seemingly in 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:30.520 favor of bitcoin, and then all of a sudden kind 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.919 of retract his statement like, oh, bitcoin isn't mined in 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.720 an efficient manner. It seemed like it was like that 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.880 one to punch. Did you see that? Yeah, of course 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:41.919 I was following it as we went along, and it 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.839 seemed to contradict his earlier tweets. So the press release 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.440 put out by Tesla that he posted an image of 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:52.080 was obviously in direct contradiction to his personal tweeting back 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.880 in January and February. So I'm not really sure what 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.200 the machinations were behind the scene, but he has a board, 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.719 and you know, they're very dependent with their business model 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.320 on sort of government large s and subsidies in a 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.920 bunch of different ways, and in particular, like some of 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.760 these renewable energy credits that they're sort of angling for, 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.480 and uh, you know, some of their cash flows are 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.760 sort of ending now in a big way with some 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:15.719 of the other companies that have been paying them over 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.240 the years now having their own electric vehicle fleets and 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.159 not having to buy these credits from Tesla anymore. Um, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.440 so they're they're sort of at the trough right now, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.200 trying to make sure they have their next sort of 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:30.000 leg up of subsidies over the next few years. And 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.360 it seems, you know, it seems just too cute that 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.760 that tweet came out, the fund tweet came out, and 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.760 literally the next day was all the news about the 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.320 uh the new arrangements with the renewable energy credits for Tesla. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.960 So yeah, hard not to see a correlation there. Yeah, 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.039 I mean, there's just gotta be in anyone who's really 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.240 studied Elon Musk. I know people love him, um, and 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.960 you know he's he's quite a character, but um, his 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.640 career has really been built, as you called it, legress 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.599 of the government. I mean he's a grifter, right, So, um, 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.760 all the money that's come from space X and for 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.279 Tesla has really come from the benefit of the Fiat 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:08.120 money system. I'm gonna stop way short of of grift 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.800 because that usually is just for personal gain. And I 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.200 actually think the dude is trying to complete important missions 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.200 like I do think Tesla's are amazing vehicles and it's 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.560 kind of pulling that whole industry out of the nineteen 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.680 fifties and into a new millennium, So I I appreciate 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.159 what he and that company have done there, and I 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.160 think what they've done with the commercialization of of you know, 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.120 space travel and satellite launches and what they're doing with 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.280 Starlink with the satellite Internet, like these things are all 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.800 great and worthy. And you can quibble about the energy 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.080 mix and the resource use of this, that and the other, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.640 and you know clearly those are intensive processes to create 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.719 those and you're not actually getting away from fossil fuels 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.560 if you're using electricity unless the source of the electricity 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.880 is clean too, So it's kind of marketing. So yes, 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.440 all of that is true. But you can also I 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.440 like to be honest because then I have credibility and 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.760 full and integrity when I, uh, you know, attack somebody 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.120 for doing something that's bullshit. It's the same reason that 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.000 I like to, you know, explain how I love the 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.840 writing of miss him teleb. And just because he doesn't 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.960 understand Bitcoin doesn't mean that all his work in other 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.400 areas is worthless. It doesn't mean that he's a charlatan. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.240 It's just like like Ray Dalio had had Bitcoin wrong 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.080 for years because of his social signals and his you know, 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.600 unwillingness to do his own research. Over the last year, 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:31.880 he's done his own research and he finally is starting 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.600 to understand bitcoin, and obviously his conclusions are very different. 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.920 What I would say to that, though, and I agree 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:39.600 with those statements. What I would say is, I think 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.120 it was Charlie Munger who said, right, show me the 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.120 incentives and I'll show you the outcome kind of a thing. 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.680 So when you understand what Musk's incentives were, as you said, right, 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.480 he's very incentivized on the credits, and he's losing the 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.920 credits because auto manufacturers are coming on now with their 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.200 own cars and whatnot, and so the incentive structure there 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.520 for him to then have to come out. Right, So 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.520 then we understand the incentives, then we kind of understand 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.240 the outcome, which is, um, maybe he got a tap 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.280 on his shoulder from somebody, maybe he just realized it himself. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.440 But because he's dependent and whatever you want to call that, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:19.840 but his business is pretty dependent on you know, government help. Um, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.600 that's the incentive. And then so you see the Yeah, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.760 these two things can both be true. Yeah, he can 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.200 want to he can believe truly that he's trying to 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.360 save the world, and that he doesn't care if he 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.360 has a few tens of millions of dollars. I think 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.960 he wants some money or a hundred billion dollars and 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.080 I truly don't think he actually cares that much. Um. 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.440 But then he also you know, he whipsaws. You can 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.640 see it in real time. Like sometimes he just seems 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.320 like super ego driven and sometimes he seems very altruistic 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.959 and you know, people can be more than one thing. Yeah, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.280 for sure, it seems uh he has a history of 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.000 this as well. Right, so he was fined by the 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.839 SEC twenty million dollars. I believe for um manipulating that 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.760 they said he was minigal. Was that when he said 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:09.360 I'm thinking about taking Tesla private at FO Yeah, So, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.160 like you know, he has a history of doing this 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.800 with his own stock obviously, Dodge, dose coin and bitcoin. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.319 So um, it's hard to be hard to believe that 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.320 the whole market could move off of what he says. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.040 But I want to I want to move. I want 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:26.160 to move past that and a couple of things. First, Um, 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:31.880 the energy around bitcoin fund is is is there's so 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:33.440 many things that we can talk about that, but it 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.640 is a little bit ironic when you look at you know, 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:40.120 understanding that everything in life has tradeoffs, and so we 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.200 can choose not to use gas and oil for cars, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.760 so we can use batteries, But then what about the 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.840 mining for the cobalt and the and the lithium and 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.800 what that's doing right? And so everything has a tradeoff 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:58.520 and I think I think people failed to realize that sometimes. Yeah, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.480 I think you're right. And you know, I think this 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.679 this responsive of Michael Sailor and some of the North 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.240 American mining companies to you know, have a power out 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.880 with Elon and kind of explain things and you know that's, uh, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:15.840 that's a pr move and it's debatable whether you want 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.520 to move an inch. And I hear this from a 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:20.320 lot of friends, and you know the kind of oil 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.800 and gas industry, and what happens when you sort of 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.080 create one of these like let's be greener type councils, 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.880 and it basically sort of starts down a slip free 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.439 slope and kind of delays progress by decades in many cases. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.080 So it can go horribly awry when you create one 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.760 of these things. I obviously do have you know, I 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.240 got to be careful with what I say because I'm 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.360 an advisor to Riot Blockchain, which is a publicly listed 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.640 bitcoin miner. But you know, essentially my understanding of what 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.880 the goals of this thing is is really just to 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.800 encourage transparency along the lines of what Riot already does. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.080 They already publish exactly what their energy sources, and you know, yeah, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:57.960 they try to improve it over time, and they engage 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.720 with different stakeholders and respond inquiries from you know, people 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.520 who want greener energy, etcetera, and you know, just trying 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.160 to be trying to be good corporate citizens and exists 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.599 and make money while still not having a target on 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.280 their back. But you know, it's not going to be 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.000 some sort of like cabal that's at the whim of 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:21.280 green peace or something. It's gonna be transparency and attempts 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.599 to do the right thing, whatever that is for them. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.320 I'm curious what you think about that. And from a 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.880 bigger standpoint though, because like now, we've seen like Kevin O'Leary, 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.520 Mr Wonderful talking about he wants to wait us to 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:39.440 mark certain bitcoins as being mind efficiently. We've seen Marathon, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.839 another big you know, publicly traded company, specifically saying that 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:47.000 that's what they're doing. Um, do you fear that this 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.440 could lead to like two classes of coins? Not at all. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.079 I mean honestly, like Bitcoin was built to withstand things 0:11:54.120 --> 0:12:00.839 like this, and the code isn't affected by what miners do. Uh, 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.880 you can't mind clean blocks without sort of not participating 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:06.400 in the network. And you're not going to be on 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.880 bitcoin anymore. Um in that way, right, you're just gonna 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.000 lose money. UM, so you'll be less efficient. I just 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.640 you know, Mr Wonderful is just obviously like trying to 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.960 create a profit opportunity for himself and using using his 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.800 megaphone and some marketing lingo to to try to create 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.960 an opportunity. Um. What is it with people that are 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:30.480 on that show just turning into like ridiculous scammers. And 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.480 I'm Mark Human in this case has been one of 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.319 the worst actors that I've seen in business over the 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.600 last couple of years. It's just such a joke. Yeah, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.080 they I mean, they all want to come in and say, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:42.520 you know, I have a better way to fix it 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.480 or whatever it is. And so I think it's just 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.400 funny profit opportunity. But I guess, you know, based off 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.480 of what he's saying or what marathons trying to do UM. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.240 I mean, they really are trying to create like a 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.280 premium coin that has has no you know, it's not 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.839 tainted as they would call it or whatever. UM it's seeing. 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.959 I made a post about this on Twitter the other day, 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.920 and I got all these mon narrow heads coming out 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.439 and attacking me and telling me, well, that's why Monaro 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.400 is so much better because it's mon arrow is truly fungible. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:17.200 Bitcoin is not fungible because it carries this history with it. Hey, 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.640 sorry to interrupt this video just one more time. I'm 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.480 not running Google ads, so it's actually way less interruption 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.400 than I normally would have on a video. UM. And 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.240 that's because it's sponsored by block five. UM. They are 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.040 opening up the world of bitcoin and financial products, offering 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.360 to pay you interest on your bitcoin. UM better than 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.240 own in a rental property that you have to manage 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.000 and control and have the risks. You can just earn 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.520 interest on it or you can leverage against it. Now, 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.000 I plan to hold my bitcoin forever and literally never 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.320 sell my bitcoin. So how do you do that? Well, 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.760 if I need money, I don't want to sell that bitcoin. 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.920 I'm gonna pay tax on it all right, I'm gonna 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.240 end up with less and I don't have the bitcoin anymore. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.400 So a better way to do it is to borrow 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.400 against the bitcoin. So I've put all my money into bitcoin. 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.319 If I want to buy a car, or I want 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.880 to buy a house, I can borrow against it at 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.000 very very low competitive rates. Get my house, get my car, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.920 whatever that may be, and get to keep the bitcoin. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.440 I've done a whole video on this. You can find it. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.400 I'll link it down to the description below, how to 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.920 retire off a bitcoin without paying taxes, and you can 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.480 do that with block fight services. I'll link to the 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.120 video down below. I'm also going to put a link 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:21.880 to block fight. If you choose to click on that 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:23.520 link to check them out. You can earn up to 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.400 two dollars in free bitcoin just for using that link. 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.280 And that's it. Let's go ahead and get back to 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.360 the interview. Yeah again, I just don't think it matters, Like, 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.280 if bitcoin is built to withstand this sort of thing, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:41.280 then we're fine, and I think it is. Yeah, So yeah, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.440 I would say that A couple of things that I 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.920 was thinking about is one, um, it's a little bit 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:51.080 too late. There's eighteen and a half million bitcoin in circulation, 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.240 there's maybe another two or three left. Like, that's not 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.560 enough to drive even if they were to mind all 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.120 the bitcoin left, it's not enough to fracture the market, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.680 um right, And it is it is. It is fungible 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.800 in the sense that once it gets combined and spent 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.320 and you know, combined with other bitcoins from other sources, 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.120 and then it goes through eight hops, nine hops, ten hops, Like, 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.200 no amount of chain analysis is ever going to be 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.680 able to track like where this stuff comes comes from 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.840 without also flagging every other transaction on the network. So 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.640 it's just a nonstarter. I mean, all of this marketing 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:27.840 language that Mara has been putting out, and you know, 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:29.800 it's the same kind of stuff that ch Analysis tries 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:36.000 to sell the company's you know, it's it's lingo that 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.240 isn't even going to be relevant in the future. Most 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.280 of the most transactions are going to happen over lightning 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.280 in the future anyway, it's completely irrelevant what is marked 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.080 on chain. And that's such a great point, and that's 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:48.440 the kind of point that I was thinking about with 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.960 the Monaro people, is that you know, most of these 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:53.880 transactions be forward, won't be done on the main chain 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.640 will be done through lightning net um. And the other 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.480 thing I was thinking is that you could also obvious 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:05.680 skate Bitcoin's history using other other means as well, coin joins, etcetera. UM, 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.120 and so you could just obviouscate the history that way. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.880 And then they said, well, merchants won't accept coin bitcoin 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.280 without the history, and it's like, well, then why would 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.760 they accept mon arrow Like right, it's like kind of 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:25.040 the same thing, it is. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.880 So I think, uh, you know, I hope you're right. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:29.800 I tend to agree with you. I think it's a 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:31.440 little bit too late. I don't think they're gonna be 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.240 able to change the direction of of bitcoin. It kind 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.400 of does remind me back to the block size wars 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:41.200 that we saw, you know, leading up to UM, where 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.000 we found out that the miners don't really have that 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.040 much power over the network, and uh, we'll probably have 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.160 to kind of revisit that maybe. Yeah, I mean, what's 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.800 what's funny is, you know, the block size wars were 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.520 much bigger existential threat. I don't think it actually got 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.480 to that point obviously, but it was a much bigger 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.400 threat to bitcoin than this is this is recycled. This 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:09.040 has been around in you know, energy foot around bitcoin 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.360 and basically just not understanding that energy usage doesn't scale 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:18.080 proportionally with transaction volume like number of transactions, and definitely 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:23.000 not with the amount of value being moved by those transactions. 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:28.000 It's such a simple and silly error that people seem 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.800 to understand in other domains that you know, it doesn't 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.920 cost a thousand times more to run the internet because 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.840 the Internet is carrying a thousand times more information. That's stupid. 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.520 The cost of everything that's used to create and run 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.160 the Internet goes down over time and things get more efficient. 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.160 It's the same thing with bitcoin. And also you can 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.120 send a billion dollars of bitcoin for the same amount 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:56.480 of power as sending a dollar, you know. So it's 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.000 just a fundamental misunderstanding. Only simple people that haven't done 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.439 their research even promote this sort of stuff, and the 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.040 truth will win out. And again this was like a 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.120 number four and number five concern. What gives me optimism 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:14.280 about bitcoin is that the worst of the fund is 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.600 something that's been around for like eight nine years and 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.199 is just being trotted out again by people with no 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.280 credibility or who haven't done their research or have the 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.320 strict incentive because they work at you know, the Bank 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.480 of Netherlands or something like that, and they're part of 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.320 creatures of the yacht system and you know, arguing against 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.200 it for those reasons or for ideological reasons or something. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:36.960 All right, well, that's good to know. I want to 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.480 switch gears a little bit now. And UM, I like 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.440 to say that I believe that UM. You know, real 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.480 investors always are looking for asymmetric opportunities, right, more upside 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.560 than downside. UM. And I say that the way to 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.439 get those asymmetric opportunities is by asymmetric information. You have 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.480 to know something that most people don't have. So that's 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.960 what I'm open to get from you now, Corey, because UM, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.040 you have insight into some order books and the movement 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:02.880 of big players and things like that. So I want 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.280 to dig into what's actually kind of not just the news, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.359 but what's really going on, UM, before we get the 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.600 super secret information that I'm gonna make you share with 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.600 us here in a second. UM, we did see that 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:19.280 maybe maybe the most successful well known investors in the world, 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:23.000 definitely the largest hedge fund in the world, Radalio UM, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.080 who has been against bitcoin, started to think about bitcoin, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.720 started to talk about bitcoin, and now has come out 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:36.280 and said that he is a bitcoin holdler. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.680 so I mean, I mean, in retrospect, it was inevitable, 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.359 as we often say. Uh And and what's inevitable is 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.480 if you actually go in with an open mind and 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.560 and don't have so much ego in the position that 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.840 you've previously taken that you're unable to change your mind publicly. 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.720 Then by definition, once you understand bitcoin, if you're honest 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.520 and don't have some sort of like massive financial incentive 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:08.280 to lie, then you'll end up with his position, the 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.199 one he's growing into. Um to level come around in 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.560 the end as well, unless his ego gets in the way. Yeah, 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.800 you know, they all will. If Munger lived to a 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.159 hundred and fifty, eventually he'd become a bitcoiner. He may 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.200 not make it, he may expire before he understands bitcoin, 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:28.560 but you know, it's inevitable that anyone who's honest and 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.760 actually puts in the work will actually understand what's going 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.800 on here. Yeah. I did a video that just went 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.439 live yesterday. Well at the time we're recording this anyway, 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:38.719 um and I was talking about kind of this this 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:40.520 fud and kind of breaking the lit it down. And 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:42.920 I was talking about Charlie or I'm sorry, Warren Buffett 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:48.280 and how he came out big time against Amazon seeing 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.440 it was a joke, it was a dream, it would 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.280 never work, blah blah blah blah blah for years and 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:54.720