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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor, a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Bogelbaum. And today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about macaroni and cheese. Yes, I love mac and cheese. Um,

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Speaker 1: many of you have recommended this one, most recently Meredith,

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Speaker 1: but I know a b over the over the years,

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Speaker 1: it's been Legion. There were questions for this episode. The

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese has been Legion. Yes, and it is

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Speaker 1: one of my very favorite comfort foods, which is appropriate because, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: my quarantine anniversary is coming up March thirteen. Oh right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, and I have a box of

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese set aside. That's a little bit weird

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Speaker 1: but beautiful, I feel. That's yes, I will take that. So,

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Speaker 1: growing up, my siblings and I each had a favorite

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Speaker 1: type of mac and cheese, which cracks me up, Like

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Speaker 1: it was all the Kraft mac and cheese, but I

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Speaker 1: like the shells, and my little brother like shapes. He

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Speaker 1: thought the cheese got in the crevices more. And then

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Speaker 1: my older brother was a classic elbow macaronian cheese type. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just cracks me up because they're essentially the same

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of just how your cheese is getting coated.

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Speaker 1: Feld No, but that's an important part of the texture,

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Speaker 1: so you know, mm hmmm. I'm glad you can appreciate this. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And my mom used to make I know a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of you will think this is blasphemous,

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Speaker 1: but she used to make a fancy summer mac and

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Speaker 1: cheese and it had fancy summer mac and cheese. It

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Speaker 1: was a summer yeah. No, that's please continue, I need

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Speaker 1: to know. Yes, so it was. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: like those spiralized elbow pasta okay, um, zucchini, squashed tomatoes, onions,

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Speaker 1: and spicy peppers. But like with like the craft packet

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Speaker 1: more like was it made with a different cheese sauce.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was velvita. Oh okay, okay, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was a good day whenever she made that. Yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And those single serving mac and cheese cups, those were

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Speaker 1: a staple of my college years in Ramen, which I've

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Speaker 1: through researching this I've learned is very common in the

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Speaker 1: United States college experience. Yeah yeah, those Uh I was

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Speaker 1: I was just out of college when they debuted those

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Speaker 1: those cups. But for sure, Ramen was a staple of

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Speaker 1: my diet MHM, which I still love. I still love raman.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh god. I feel so lucky that that

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Speaker 1: I didn't have mac and cheese cups available to me. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I really strongly remember how mac and cheese was

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Speaker 1: the first thing I was able to stomach after I

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Speaker 1: had the swine flu. I remember this so viscerally, and

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Speaker 1: it was the box stuff, but it was so warm,

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Speaker 1: it was so savory, so comforting, Oh my gosh, delicious.

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Speaker 1: And also twice when I was sort of homesick and

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Speaker 1: living abroad, and two separate instances, a friend made me

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Speaker 1: what they called it American dinner, which included things like

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Speaker 1: peanut butter pizza, spaghetti, and mac and cheese. I'm still

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Speaker 1: delighted by this every time I hear about it, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm very confused, but very delighted. Yes, I love I

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Speaker 1: love the spaghetti and pizza. As we've talked about, like

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Speaker 1: the origin it's not so American, but that's what both

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Speaker 1: these people thought. And you know, I just gotta put

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Speaker 1: it in here. It always bumps me out. In the

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Speaker 1: film Home Alone, okay, when Kevin makes the mac and

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Speaker 1: cheese and then doesn't get to eat it. He's so

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Speaker 1: meticulous in his planning of his traps. He's got his

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Speaker 1: well drawn out maps, and then he knows they're coming

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Speaker 1: at nine pm, and he puts the back and cheese

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Speaker 1: down right at nine What you gotta plan it around

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Speaker 1: of your back and cheese better than that, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Don't treat it like an afterthought, Kevin, geez, come on, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: he said a prayer over it. Yeah, it's a glass

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Speaker 1: of milk. I'm getting angry. I this is not a

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Speaker 1: detail that I recall from the Home Alone film, but

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Speaker 1: I am I am glad that you have brought it

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Speaker 1: to light. It is a travesty and it's not talked

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Speaker 1: about enough. I think it's I think we can all

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Speaker 1: learn something here. Prioritize yourself. I mean, yes, creating deadly

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Speaker 1: traps for for for harmless burglars um, but but also

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Speaker 1: make sure you're make sure you're you're got self care. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you gotta feed yourself mac and cheese. Yeah, and he

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Speaker 1: went to a lot of trouble to get that mac

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Speaker 1: and cheese all right anyway? Yeah? Yeah, Mac and cheese

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Speaker 1: is also one of my very favorite foods. It's something

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Speaker 1: that if I'm like and and this is like like

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Speaker 1: like not to like bring the party down, but like

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Speaker 1: I have days sometimes when I'm like, I can't eat food?

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Speaker 1: Why all the time? Every day more than once a

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Speaker 1: day do we have to eat food? I'm a food podcaster.

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Speaker 1: I know, I it's ridiculous, but you know, but I

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Speaker 1: just get so in my head and sad that I'm

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Speaker 1: just like I don't want to eat, but I can

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Speaker 1: usually trick myself into eating mac and cheese. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's I try not to do this. It is.

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Speaker 1: It is something I recognize in myself where I get

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Speaker 1: annoyed with picky people. I know that's a problem of mine,

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Speaker 1: but if people like I have a good friend and

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Speaker 1: she told me she doesn't care for mac and cheese.

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Speaker 1: She didn't say she didn't like it, she didn't care

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Speaker 1: for it, And like I had to tamp down on

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Speaker 1: the immediate like anger. I felt like that. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I like stepped back. What we took it? You took

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Speaker 1: it personally. I did. And my dad always say, he

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Speaker 1: used to say, don't tip, don't take it personally, but

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Speaker 1: I did. I did. We were at a food event

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Speaker 1: where you share dishes, so it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: you know, we were compromising. Oh oh yeah, oh so

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Speaker 1: you know that then it is personal. Yeah, that's why

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Speaker 1: I don't think I would have been as shaken otherwise.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, wait, we're not gonna I just

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Speaker 1: assumed that was an automatic Yeah, Mac and che right,

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Speaker 1: sure of course. Well, well, when in the incredible future

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Speaker 1: we are able to to hang out at the kind

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Speaker 1: of event where we have to share dishes again, I

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Speaker 1: I promise Annie, I will always be your backup on

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Speaker 1: the Mac and cheese, Yes, cheese back up. And we've

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Speaker 1: talked around mac and cheese and craft specifically a lot.

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Speaker 1: Some episodes that come to mind are our fifty Shapes

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Speaker 1: of Pasta episode in our Chitter episode Processed Cheese and Caeso,

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Speaker 1: But today we are not talking about those things have

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Speaker 1: plenty in the backlog if you want to get into it.

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Speaker 1: But this brings us to our question, yes, mac and cheese,

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Speaker 1: what is it? Well? Mac and cheese is a dish

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Speaker 1: made up of a pasta in a cheese sauce, served warm.

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Speaker 1: The pasta can vary, the cheese sauce can vary, the

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Speaker 1: cooking methods can vary. I would say that there are

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Speaker 1: two kind of like based varietals of mac and cheese. Um.

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Speaker 1: You've got the type that you make on the stovetop

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Speaker 1: or in the microwave from a package that contains dried

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Speaker 1: noodles in a packet of like cheese sauce or cheese

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Speaker 1: sauce starter. Um. And then you have the second type

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Speaker 1: that you make on the stovetop and or in the

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Speaker 1: oven by cooking noodles and making your own cheese sauce.

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Speaker 1: And there can be overlap. There's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a genetic confusion, I would say in between these for sure.

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Speaker 1: Like the mac and cheese that my dad made for

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Speaker 1: dinner when I was a kid was not prepackaged, but

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Speaker 1: it was like he would just like make rottini and

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Speaker 1: take like a jar of cheese whizz, like pasteurized processed

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Speaker 1: cheese food product, and like just scoop the cheese whiz

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Speaker 1: onto the cooked pasta like maybe some butter, maybe some

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Speaker 1: butter on there to like help he's the sauce. But um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, that was it. Cheese cheese was Yeah. That

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Speaker 1: that was his preferred brand over like a block of

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Speaker 1: velveta or something like that. Yeah, uh not not the

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Speaker 1: kind that comes like in a spray can. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like a spray can. That's probably what you're thinking of.

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Speaker 1: It was. It was analogous to a block of velvita. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: got it. If you are making, however, the cheese sauce

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Speaker 1: from scratch um, there are I mean, any number of

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Speaker 1: ways to accomplish that. But the sort of traditional is

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Speaker 1: by making a more ne sauce, which is the French

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Speaker 1: way of saying a thick, creamy cheese sauce. So you

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Speaker 1: start by making a rue, which is a flower plus fat,

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Speaker 1: usually butter cooked start breaking down the flour. Then you

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Speaker 1: add milk to make a bechamel um, which is nice

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Speaker 1: and creamy, and then add cheese to make it a

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Speaker 1: more ne, which is a thicker and richer. And as

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Speaker 1: we've talked about in nachos and cas so, achieving a

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Speaker 1: truly smooth incorporated cheese sauce can be difficult because many

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Speaker 1: cheeses don't melt completely evenly, but rather that the fats

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Speaker 1: and the other stuff will separate out and make sauces

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Speaker 1: go kind of oily and lumpy. Um. So it's sort

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Speaker 1: of a hack, as with nachos and case so you

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Speaker 1: can add some specialized ingredients that help emulsify the mixture,

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Speaker 1: make it, make it nice and nice and even um

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Speaker 1: like sodium citrate and yeah. Different recipes for mac and

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Speaker 1: cheese may include um, some some cheese added to the top,

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Speaker 1: or like really like a lot of extra mixed into

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Speaker 1: the sauce. Um, you can. You can do it with

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Speaker 1: all kinds of cheeses. Hypothetically, I think orange cheddar is

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Speaker 1: perhaps the one that we all think of when we

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Speaker 1: think of mac and cheese, although morena is usually a

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Speaker 1: white sauce. But this brings us to my sub question

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Speaker 1: to our question, which is why is the packaged stuff

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Speaker 1: often so violently orange? Tell me why, Lauren um. We

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Speaker 1: discussed this in detail on our Cheddar episode, but essentially

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Speaker 1: the answer is cheese fraught in the sixteen hundreds. Done. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And this this happened because, uh, you know, when you

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Speaker 1: when you age at cheddar, um, it becomes yellow to

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Speaker 1: orange over time because molecules of beta carotene are are

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Speaker 1: released over time, and that beta carotene gets in there

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Speaker 1: when the cows that provided the milk that made the

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Speaker 1: cheese were being fed fresh grass or we're grazing on

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Speaker 1: fresh grass. I guess you don't like usually take a

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Speaker 1: handful and feed into a cow at any rate. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So this color was considered a mark of quality in

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Speaker 1: letters in the six undreds in England, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden people figured out that they could die their

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Speaker 1: cheese yellow to make it look like it was higher quality.

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Speaker 1: M h. And and it just kind of snowballed from there,

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Speaker 1: like we still I don't I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know why violently orange. It cracks me up because in

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Speaker 1: the weird strange way of history, now, if I see

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Speaker 1: too mac and cheeses side by side, I'm going to assume,

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Speaker 1: right or wrongly, that the fancier, nicer, higher quality one

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Speaker 1: is the one that is not the orange color. This

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Speaker 1: is the flip. Why that all started? Yeah, because you

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Speaker 1: because you know that it's just food. Die if it's

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Speaker 1: if it's orange, there's no reason for it to be orange.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I am, I have I have a kind

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Speaker 1: of a bad reaction to a natto, which is one

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Speaker 1: of the natural colorings that they used to make products

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Speaker 1: that color orange. Um, so I always go for the

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Speaker 1: white cheddar ones. Yeah, I love them so good, Oh

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Speaker 1: so good, so good. But yes, if you are not

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Speaker 1: making your own sauce. These packages can come in a

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Speaker 1: couple of different sub varieties. There's your powdered cheese variety,

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Speaker 1: to which you generally have to add an ingredient or two.

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Speaker 1: At home, it's like usually recommended that you add some

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Speaker 1: some milk or some butter to kind of make make

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Speaker 1: the sauce all all nice and creamy and come together.

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Speaker 1: You can just use water though most of the time,

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Speaker 1: and then you've got the type that come with with

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Speaker 1: usually these days little packets, little like a milar foil

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Speaker 1: plastic packets of ready ready cheese cheese. You don't need

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Speaker 1: to add anything to it's so gooey. Oh it's so good.

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Speaker 1: Yes it doesn't. It doesn't entirely taste like cheese, but

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Speaker 1: it tastes like dreams. It tastes like dreams. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what kind I picked out, So

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to see. Yeah, I was just you know,

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Speaker 1: I was trying to get out of there as quick

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Speaker 1: as possible, so I'm to get it into the cart

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Speaker 1: so I shall see. I'm sure it's good. Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm overwhelmed with intense curiosity and concern that is

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Speaker 1: not back in cheese. Oh dear, well, I'll face that

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Speaker 1: after this podcast recording. Uh, let's talk about the nutrition. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it highly depends on what variety end ingredients you are

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Speaker 1: talking about here. Um, but you know, cheese is a

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Speaker 1: calorie dense food. That's rather the idea. Um, pasta tends

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Speaker 1: to contain a lot of carbs without having a lot

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Speaker 1: of five or and and mac and cheese tends to

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Speaker 1: be a heavily salted dish. Um. Processed cheeses tend to

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Speaker 1: be less calorie dense, but also less nutrient dense and

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Speaker 1: usually a little bit even more salt. Here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese is gonna fill you up and help

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Speaker 1: keep you going. I would say that if you're having

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Speaker 1: a type made from unprocessed cheeses, uh, you know, homemade sauce,

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Speaker 1: probably watch your serving size. Uh, eat a vegetable. Um.

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Speaker 1: And if you are having a processed cheese type, still

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Speaker 1: watch your serving size and neat a vegetable, but also

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Speaker 1: consider balancing with like a little bit of extra protein. Oh.

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Speaker 1: See what I'm gonna have to do because I'm at

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Speaker 1: the end of my grocery cycle is all I have

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Speaker 1: left is the mac and cheese, chicken nuggets, and lima beans.

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Speaker 1: So that's no, that sounds that us. That honestly sounds great.

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Speaker 1: I mean you know, like like that sounds like a

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Speaker 1: terrific meal to me. It does. I think it's not

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Speaker 1: what you would typically put together perhaps, but it's gonna work,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited. I feel like there has to be

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Speaker 1: like a like a Swanson's Kids meal out there that

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Speaker 1: has exactly those ingredients. You're right, it is such a

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Speaker 1: child as for you. Yeah. Um yeah, I'm I'm always

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Speaker 1: really proud of myself when I tricked myself into eating

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese, and I also realized that I've got

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Speaker 1: like frozen spinach or something, and then that I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm an adult almost kind of sort of see there's

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Speaker 1: a spinach vegetable is happening. Uhum. We do have a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of numbers for you, we do. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: about a million boxes of Craft macaroni and cheese are

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Speaker 1: sold a day. Yeah, and when you open that up

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Speaker 1: to other brands aside from Craft um or I mean

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Speaker 1: including Craft, it's two million boxes of mac and cheese

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Speaker 1: a day in the United States alone, or probably more

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Speaker 1: because that number is from and yes, demand for mac

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Speaker 1: and cheese has risen with the pandemic somewhere around in

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Speaker 1: Canada at least, and it is popular in Canada. I

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Speaker 1: did not know this, where it's called Kraft Dinner r

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Speaker 1: k D. So good Canada A counselor about of box

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Speaker 1: macaroni sold a week. It's one point seven million of

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Speaker 1: seven million per week and that's fifty more than Americans. What, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: good job. M M. Maybe I'm not doing my part

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Speaker 1: in this. If I have to eat more mac and cheese,

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Speaker 1: I will. It is one of the top selling grocery

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Speaker 1: items in Canada, also popular in the UK, where it's

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Speaker 1: called macaroni cheese and we're cheesy pasta. And I love

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Speaker 1: this because this is like I I got the same

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Speaker 1: feeling reading that as I did when I realized, like

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Speaker 1: a few years after having originally picked up some of

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Speaker 1: the Harry Potter books that like, oh that's where creepy

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Speaker 1: pasta comes from. Oh, spellow tape is because they call

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Speaker 1: it cello tape over there, okay, right, oh yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I picked up all that either. There you go. When

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Speaker 1: we were first researching this, I say, as if we

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Speaker 1: were researching it together because you know, it was I

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Speaker 1: I was confused by the many articles that just called

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Speaker 1: it macaroni cheese and at first I thought it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a typo but now also popular in Black Southern cuisine

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Speaker 1: and traditions and shapes, SpongeBob is the one that comes

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Speaker 1: to my mind. Uh yeah, from my from childhood. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm pretty sure there were ninja turtle shapes

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Speaker 1: or something that it seems likely, but yeah, right now,

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Speaker 1: um craft offers a pop Patrol shapes, Unicorn shapes, and

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Speaker 1: a frozen two shapes. Oh oh, I'm sorry I have

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Speaker 1: seen those. UM. I'm so intrigued by the whole process,

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Speaker 1: like do you have to make a whole machine? Um?

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Speaker 1: It's probably a specific die for the machine because um,

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Speaker 1: as we talked about in our pasta Shape episode. And

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Speaker 1: if any of y'all, um do listen to The Sportful

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Speaker 1: You or or follow Dan Pashman on social media. UM

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Speaker 1: he's doing this ongoing series about his quest to make

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Speaker 1: his own pasta Shape. And so you've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of really great content out right now about UM I

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Speaker 1: just called it content. Heck, that's really industry of me.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Um, he's got a lot of great material

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Speaker 1: out right now about how pasta is made and manufactured. Um,

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Speaker 1: but but so yeah, yeah, the basics of how you

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Speaker 1: get a pasta shape is that you make the dough

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Speaker 1: and then you push it through this machine and cut

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Speaker 1: it off through a die, through a through a shaped

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Speaker 1: thing like Plato, right, and then you cut it off

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Speaker 1: with a blade, and that's your pasta shapes. So U

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Speaker 1: so yeah, I imagine it's you know, not not free

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Speaker 1: but not too expensive. Okay. I love to be the

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Speaker 1: person who designed those, and it's like have you seen

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Speaker 1: my work? And the newest macaroni and cheese frozen too shapes?

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Speaker 1: That brings me to a philosophical question. Is it still

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Speaker 1: macaroni and cheese if the pasta is no longer macaroni

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Speaker 1: in shape? And I was thinking about this when you

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Speaker 1: were talking about addens to macaroni and cheese, because of

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Speaker 1: course people add any number of things into macaroni and cheese.

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Speaker 1: But like, but sort of similar to my feelings about like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you add more than like two ingredients to like

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Speaker 1: a grilled cheese sandwich, it's no longer a grilled cheese sandwich.

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Speaker 1: It's something else and cheese sandwich that has been grilled right.

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Speaker 1: And and I feel like Americans, especially maybe maybe it's

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Speaker 1: everywhere play fast and loose with the definition of mac

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Speaker 1: and cheese. Oh yeah, all kinds of things. I made

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese cups for our very own D and

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Speaker 1: D sessions back when we Yeah, and they had I

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Speaker 1: think they had bacon and maybe mushrooms, and then they

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Speaker 1: were talked with fresh core yeer. Oh those were good.

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Speaker 1: They were good. Man. Um yeah, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I think it is still mac and cheese without the macaroni.

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Speaker 1: I think that um as as we will get into

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Speaker 1: on our history sections, the term macaroni itself has changed

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Speaker 1: so much over the years and meant so many things.

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Speaker 1: Macaroni has transcended the macaroni it has, oh deep. And then,

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Speaker 1: of course maccaroni and Cheese festivals really pushed the lines

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Speaker 1: of this philosophical question. I have been to one. It

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Speaker 1: was a lot, it was delicious. Yeah, that sounds like

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Speaker 1: I think there were twenty eight options. Oh my heck,

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Speaker 1: yeah that's that. Yeah. Yes, you can't see the face

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Speaker 1: I'm making, but it's one of intense regret but also pride. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: both of us just look kind of like worried. It's

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Speaker 1: a good word for it, um. And there are entire

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese restaurants, So yes, people have been playing

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Speaker 1: fast and loose, and clearly people love mac and cheese

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Speaker 1: and have loved it throughout time. Yes, and we will

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Speaker 1: get into that history. But first we are going to

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Speaker 1: take a quick break for a word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. So

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Speaker 1: as said at the top c R Cheese episodes for

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Speaker 1: for more context on this one and especially cheese and yes,

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Speaker 1: but in brief, um, she's making has been around for

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Speaker 1: thousands of years, possibly an accidental discovery, but certainly a

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Speaker 1: helpful one in terms of increasing the shelf life of

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Speaker 1: a protein product like dairy pasta. On the other hand, oh,

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Speaker 1: people like to debate this one. M but probably originated

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Speaker 1: in either Japan or China in three thousand five b C.

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Speaker 1: And traveled with merchants on the Silk Road to the

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Speaker 1: Middle East and Africa. Um. It was probably introduced by

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Speaker 1: merchants from these regions to Italy during the seventh century

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Speaker 1: sea and from there it spread throughout Europe separate episodes,

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Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, yeah, and extreme brief. In the

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Speaker 1: extreme brief, the word macaroni is possibly thousands of years old,

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Speaker 1: going back to when ancient Greeks established Neapolis and what

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Speaker 1: is now modern day Naples, sometimes between two thousand and

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Speaker 1: one thousand b c. E. The locals they are made

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Speaker 1: a dish called macaria, which I really love the sound.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly, but I

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Speaker 1: love the sound of how I just pronusted. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: more like macaria or marea. That sounds like the macarina.

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Speaker 1: That's a different vibe than but you're right, it could be.

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Speaker 1: It does sound like a fantasy goddess. And it was

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Speaker 1: poticially named after a Greek goddess. It was a barley

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Speaker 1: flower pasta cooked with water. However it was pronounced. It

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Speaker 1: was later corrupted it in Italian to masharoni. Probably again

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Speaker 1: kind of lost to history, but that word in either

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Speaker 1: case for a long time at pasta at large is

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Speaker 1: kind of catch all. But okay. Mac and cheese, Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: The origins of macaroni and cheese are also a bit mysterious.

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Speaker 1: Some historians suspect it originated in Northern Europe, um that

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Speaker 1: perhaps Swiss Alpine herders were the originators of this dish,

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Speaker 1: or the Swiss precursor to it called Alpine herders macaroni,

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Speaker 1: which was essentially elbow pasta tossed with the local cheese

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Speaker 1: like a year and you can still get it to

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Speaker 1: this day um in in Switzerland and northern Europe. And

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Speaker 1: to me that does sound like mac and cheese. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it. That's it, right, m Alpine herders that needed

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Speaker 1: to pack light and dry pasta didn't weigh much um

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Speaker 1: and they made of cheese themselves, resulting in this fortifying

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00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: dish that I am imagining. I can't believe I've never

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00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: had mac and cheese while hiking. Um perfect for a

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Speaker 1: cold and physically taxing environment. The first known recorded recipe

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Speaker 1: for a macaroni and cheese dish dates back to seventeen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine. It was from Elizabeth Rafald's book The Experienced Housewife,

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Speaker 1: with a sauce made of cheddar and bishomil, tossed with

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Speaker 1: noodles and topped with toasted breadcrumbs and parmesan. Or was

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Speaker 1: it because it could have been earlier. Some sources point

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Speaker 1: to a thirteenth century Italian recipe written in Latin, calling

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Speaker 1: for small two inch or five centimeter squares of sheet

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Speaker 1: pasta cooked in water and then covered with cheese, possibly

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Speaker 1: graded parmesan. There were two recipes in this book, in fact,

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Speaker 1: Macaroni Romaneschi and Macaroni's siciliani. And just a note, the

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Speaker 1: book that contained these recipes was published in the Italian

401
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: speaking area of Switzerland, so kind of maybe gives credence

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00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: to that other theory. Um, it seems to once again

403
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: come down to how you define macaroni and cheese. Yeah,

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00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: I mean, but cheese is good, pasta is good, agreed.

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Speaker 1: People were probably combining it in in various iterations in

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Speaker 1: places where both of those things were available. Indeed, if

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00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: they were smart, they were. This book also had recipes

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00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: for um and methods for making hollow pasta, including wrapping

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00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: dough around a stick, but these noodles were typically much

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Speaker 1: longer than the short elbow macaroni that we think of.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty one, Mrs Beaton's Book of Household Management

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Speaker 1: included a recipe for cooked quote pipe shaped pasta topped

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Speaker 1: with toasted parmesan and or cheshire cheese and bread crumbs.

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Speaker 1: Being conclaimed that macaroni as a quote favorite food of

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Speaker 1: Italy and that they quote regarded as a staff of life.

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Speaker 1: It's that staff. I thought it was a typo and

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00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: maybe stuff now share like like like a like a

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Speaker 1: staff of life, like it like it holds, it holds

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Speaker 1: life up. Oh, remember the Kale scepter. If I got

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Speaker 1: a Kale scepter and a macaroni staff and I get an,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're designing like a like a suite

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Speaker 1: of tarot at this point. Oh, I think we might

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00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: be oh interesting terrifying food tero powerful? Doesn't it be terrifying?

424
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: It could be both? Um. Well, soon after Mrs Beaton

425
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: said this, Alexandra Dumas three work grand at Dictionarire de Cuisine,

426
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: also claimed that the birthplace of macaroni and cheese was

427
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: in fact Italy. He even went on to claim that

428
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: Catherine Day Medici was responsible for introducing the dish to

429
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: France and neighboring countries in the thirties. However, Dumas himself

430
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: was not a fan of baccari and cheese, at least

431
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: as the stories go. Um He allegedly called it long

432
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: pipes of pity. Wow, we've had a lot of Good

433
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: harsh disses on food, and the most recent episodes py

434
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: Um and Yeah, as the tail goes. He disliked this

435
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: dish so much he got in a fight with Italian

436
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: composer Joaquino Rassini, who composed the William tell overture, after

437
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: he requested Rossini, a big proponent of maccaroni and cheese,

438
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: make the dish for Dumas. But then Dumas refused to

439
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: eat it. Wow, that's a low blow. That is like, hey,

440
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: would you make me this thing? I don't know if

441
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: I like it? Would you make it for me? I'm

442
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: not going to eat that. I'm not gonna get that. Wow,

443
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: that is salty, Alexander Duma. Holy heck yes. Salty. Pasta

444
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: was certainly popular in Italy during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

445
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: Wheat was affordable, industrialization made pasta production easy, and pasta

446
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: itself was filling in a good alternative to meat when

447
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: meat was prohibited on various days for the church going

448
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: crowds for religious reasons. Um However, there are no records

449
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: of hollow pastas in Naples in the fourteenth century, and

450
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: from what I read, that's telling because they kept pretty

451
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: good records about their pasta's, and a lot of the

452
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: Italian recipes from macaroni in the se hundreds were a

453
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: bit sweeter and spicier than what we'd expect these days,

454
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: featuring ingredients like cinnamon, sugar, and rose water. Meanwhile, the

455
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: dish and the alps was far simpler, often just pasta

456
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: are cream and cheese. Some seventy one documents from the

457
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: archives of a Swiss abbey detailed people using a thread

458
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: press machine to make hollow macaroni pasta, and an eighteen

459
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: thirty six cookbook from that region included a recipe for

460
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: macaroni that called for baking pasta with Parmesan or Swiss

461
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: a montal cheese. I didn't know how to look that up.

462
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: I always said elemental, and then I realized that it's

463
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: definitely not how it's spelled. That's probably not how it's pronounced. Yes,

464
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: glad I checked um. Switzerland's first cheese factory opened in

465
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty eight. According to some sources, the first known

466
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: commercial production of elbow macaroni did take place in Switzerland

467
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy two. Now shifting um macaroni and cheese

468
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: in America may have evolved from pasta cast roles served

469
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: at New England church suppers recipes brought over from England end.

470
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: Until the Industrial Revolution made pasta making easier and cheaper,

471
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: dishes like this would have been, for the most part

472
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: reserved for the upper class. Yeah, and the amount of

473
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: milk and butter and cheese that you might put into

474
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: a dish like this would also have been cost prohibitive

475
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: before the Industrial Revolution. Right. Um. Thomas Jefferson's that guy

476
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: gets a lot of credit for injurdiscing back and cheese

477
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: to the US, which he definitely didn't. Um. He did

478
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: popularize it here after he brought the recipe back from

479
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: one of his trips to France or possibly Italy or

480
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: probably both, along with a pasta making machine, which was

481
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: necessary since yes, this pasta was not available in the US.

482
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: Some sort of this commercialized widely available share right Yeah yeah,

483
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: Um it was his enslaved chef James Hemmings and other

484
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: enslaved folks that cooked it, however, so he's like double,

485
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: he doesn't deserve the credit. Um and eight to President

486
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson served macaroni and she's at a state dinner,

487
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: one attendee if this dinner was not impressed, describing quote

488
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: a pie called macaroni which appeared to be a rich

489
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: crest filled with the strillions of onions or shells, which

490
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: I took it to be tasted very strong and not agreeable.

491
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: Not agreeable, not agreeable. Well, I will say that Mary Rudolph,

492
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: who who stepped in as the White House hostess after

493
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: Jefferson's wife Martha passed away, did include later on when

494
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: she she wrote her cookback, The Virginia Housewife, in a

495
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: recipe for um uh macaroni and parmesan cheese. Mm hmmm um.

496
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: Which brings me to kind of like a side question here,

497
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: why all of this parmesan and some of these recipes,

498
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: certainly in America parmesan was kind of still is like

499
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: a fancy imported she so super super classy, you know. Um.

500
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: Some of the first cheese is made in America by

501
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: English colonists were cheddars, though um and cheddar would have

502
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: been much more available. So this is a mystery of history.

503
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 1: I you know, it's a it's a I haven't looked

504
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: deep enough into the availability of different cheeses in America

505
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: at the time. It's like right there, it just isn't

506
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: it just isn't quite together yet. You know, another cheese

507
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: hole for you, Lauren. Many all the time, they never stopped.

508
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: You have had You've had multiple sub questions in this episode.

509
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: I like it. There's a lot to think about. There

510
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: is a lot to think about. One day, return and

511
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: think about it further. But meanwhile, mac and cheese was

512
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: popular among enslaved people, particularly in the South. It was

513
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: sometimes viewed as a celebration or we in food, but

514
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: as time went on and after the emancipation, it became

515
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: an everyday food. Now stepping back a bit, we talked

516
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: about the origins of the macaroni and Yankee doodle dandy.

517
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: We talked about it briefly in our Chaps of pasta episode.

518
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: But just to go over it real quick because it

519
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: is interesting. This song, this tune was pinned several years

520
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: before the American Revolution. The first known reference took place

521
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: in seventeen sixty seven, and music historians believe a British

522
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: Army surgeon named Dr Richard Shackberg wrote it, or at

523
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: least part of it. Um Supposedly, it was meant to

524
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: mock colonial soldiers who fought alongside the British and also

525
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: just to dig to American colonist at large, or basically

526
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: not being very cultured or rich. So Macaroni in the

527
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: song referred to this highly fashionable group of English use

528
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: in the seventeen sixties and seventies. Think like show stopping

529
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: wigs and tight clothes and fancy pointed shoes, very striking,

530
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: very cash. Yeah, they made a huge impact on fashion

531
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: at the time, and apparently their favorite food was macaroni.

532
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 1: I can't blame them for that. So people started calling

533
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: them in their movement macaroni or and or macaroni eaters.

534
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: So the disc and the song is it's it's not

535
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: enough to stick a feather in your cap to be

536
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: a macaroni. Yeah, you got it, takes more. Yeah, you

537
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: can't just you can't just call anything macaroni. Yeah, you

538
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: can't fake that. Americans see through false Macaroni facade. Up

539
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: until the opening of America's first cheese factory in eighteen

540
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: fifty one, cheese was made on small farms, typically by women,

541
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: either a wife of the farmer or cheese made or

542
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: an enslaved woman. But with industrialization beginning with the opening

543
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: of this Bery cheese factory, men largely took over the

544
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: protection of cheese in these industrial spaces, as often happens.

545
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: Um processed cheese was invented in nineteen eleven, essentially a multified,

546
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: blended pasteurized cheese that drastically increased the shelf life, which

547
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: made way for products like Craft singles, Velvita, and eventually

548
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: powdered mac and cheese sauce. Uh. This innovation was helpful

549
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: in terms of feeding soldiers during war and for others

550
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: who didn't have access to refrigeration. Yeah. The U. S.

551
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: Military bought twenty five million cans quarter pound cans of

552
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: Craft processed cheese during World War One to ship out soldiers.

553
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: Dang dang dang, and Americans went all in on this,

554
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: says cheese to the point that American cheese did this

555
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: day denotes processed cheese. Yeah, which if you talk to

556
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: any American cheese makers, makers of cheese who live in America,

557
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: they get they get kind of testy about this, and

558
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: I can see why. Yeah, I got it. Um. And

559
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: then in seven Craft released their boxed macaroni and cheese.

560
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: This was during the Great Depression, so the convenience and

561
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: the nineteen cents price really caught the national eye. It

562
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: was cheap to make, it was easy to ship into store,

563
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: it was filling, it was delicious, and it was the

564
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: first American product to use processed cheese. Within a year,

565
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: eight or nine million boxes were sold. And I couldn't

566
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: quite track this down, but I'm nearly positive that these

567
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 1: boxes would have come with small tins of cheese sauce. Yeah,

568
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: because the technology for for plastics, for for making the

569
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: type of packets that we see today, for for the

570
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: wet cheese sauces hadn't been invented yet. Um, and we

571
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: were still in a wet sauce stage. I don't know

572
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 1: why that sounds so gross. I apologize. Can you imagine

573
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: if they redid like, you know, the Jurassic period, Cretaceous,

574
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: it's like dry sauce. What's I thought that sauce? Oh No,

575
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: there's so many projects I want to take on after

576
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: we do these episodes. That's one. Listeners, get on it.

577
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: You can do it. Uh. And this this box mac

578
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 1: and cheese. It's popularity really grew during World War Two,

579
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: when rationing limited availability of staples like dairy and meats. Um. Yeah.

580
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: World War two did also see the development of cheese

581
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: powder for the first time because processed cheese, although shelf stable,

582
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: was still heavy um. In this wet era, a branch

583
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: of the Army called the Quartermaster Core had been working

584
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: with various public and private labs, especially craft Um, to

585
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: h to dry and press cheese into a lightweight, nutritious

586
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: and tasty dust. Get the water out of there. It's

587
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: a lot more lightweight. U. S D. A dairy scientist

588
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: George Sanders, is credited with the first successful cheese powder

589
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: in and I'm not totally positive when that powder would

590
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: have made it into macaroni and cheese boxes, but maybe

591
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: it was right away. I'm not sure at any rate.

592
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: At any rate, UH sales of mac and cheese increased fivefold.

593
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: By some accounts, fifty million boxes were sold in nineteen

594
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: forty three alone, or possibly eighty million boxes. I saw

595
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: that number floated around. It was a lot of boxes,

596
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: lots of boxes. It helped that the company convinced the

597
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: US government to sell two boxes for one ration card. Yeah.

598
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: Smart Um products like this one also facilitated the ability

599
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: of women to enter the workplace in higher numbers. These convenient, quick,

600
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: easy meals. But I did want to put in here.

601
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: I saw some really sassy international articles that were like, oh,

602
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: those Americans can try to claim mac and cheese all

603
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: they want with this state with Kraft, but they can't.

604
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: And here's x y zeries why, Like we're sorry. Have

605
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: you been to Switzerland? Yes? And it's like a really

606
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: in depth They're like talking about the goats grazing them mountain.

607
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: Wait what okay? Um. In the nineteen fifties, some brands

608
00:41:53,200 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: sold cans of processed cheese um as, specifically macaroni cheese. Oh.

609
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: The craft Blue Box of Macaroni and Cheese debuted in

610
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four. Before that, the box was mostly yellow.

611
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 1: Spiral shaped noodles came out in nineteen five, and Velvita

612
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: shells and cheese in nineteen eight four. And then the

613
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: friendly Cheesy dinosaur mascot cheese a sourus Rex debuted in nine.

614
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: Uh if if y'all missed this blessedly for some reason.

615
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: Uh this is this is a bright orange bipedal dinosaur

616
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: and he's really into cheese. He's very excited about it.

617
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: He likes sings songs about it. He surfs on it

618
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: because it was so you can surf on anything. Yeah,

619
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: he's very active. Oh sure, yeah, and he was real cool.

620
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: He was real cool. His like tagline was like it's

621
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: cool to be cheesy. I don't know if he had

622
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 1: a voice. I can't remember. Oh I think he did. Yeah, yeah,

623
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: I mean unfortunately, unfortunately, the cool aid man is my

624
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: go to voice for nineties commercials. Share so that's what

625
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: I hear. But I'm pretty sure he did have a voice. Um, oh, no,

626
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: you're right, You're right, because it was all like, it's

627
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: the treesiest. Yeah, I think that he said, and Lauren

628
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: and I were discussing the fourhand. He really could have

629
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: only existed in this specific like been created better to

630
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: say this time it's I. I immediately was like, nineties, right,

631
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: it's extremely specifically. Yes, yes, And apparently this was his

632
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: legit thieve song when he was introduced. When he was

633
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: first introduced. Yeah, so I'm not gonna sing it, but

634
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: macaroni and cheese, macaroni and cheese. Oh the cheese. It

635
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: may be phony, but that's real macaroni in the macaroni

636
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: and cheese. So did they just they were just like, yeah,

637
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: that cheese is phony, but that mac and that mac

638
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: and cheese. We got one going for us. What's up phony? Well,

639
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: you know they were just trying. I know, they're just

640
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: trying to ride something with macaroni. Look, when I'm trying

641
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: to come up with titles, I understand you make certain

642
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: compromises and sacrifices that you might not be proud of.

643
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: But wow, they leaned all in to the phony Macaroni

644
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: and cheese. Um. In later commercials, cheese a source goes

645
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: to noodle Town Records a song called Cheese Me and

646
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: wins a Grammy made of cheese and just wanted to

647
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: say belated congrats on your wind. Mr rex Well deserved Yeah. Yeah.

648
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: When um, when he first went gold, he was featured

649
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: on the cover of the magazine Rock and Roni. Um,

650
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: and congrats on that too. It's something that many of

651
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: us aspire to and so few of us actually, uh

652
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: make it there. So I believe there were comic books. Um.

653
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: I there in the in the commercial in which he

654
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: won this cheese Grammy, like he's like singing to a

655
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: big audience of macaroni noodles. I recall every now and then, Lauren,

656
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: we have such a good delivery of things that you

657
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: say something and I'm like, is this a joke, and

658
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: then I'm like, what is real life rock ARRONI I

659
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Maybe we're all in a

660
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: mac and cheese commercial. I maybe we are. It's you're welcome.

661
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm glad I make you doubt the very nature of existence. Yes,

662
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: it's going to keep me on my toes. Who do cheeseus? Sorous?

663
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: Rex was gonna give me such a perplexing crisis. I

664
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: feel like the existential crisis is right there. In a smile,

665
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: I feel like there is You're right? U Um, Yeah,

666
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess we need to do more research

667
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: into that, sometime, more horrifying, spiraling research. Yes, but we

668
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: must know what's up with Jesus source Rex. But all right,

669
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: that's for a later date if he has any connections

670
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: to the kool aid Man. Yes, let's talk about crafts.

671
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: Easy back cups, those things that helped me get through college,

672
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: those launched in two thousand and six. And yeah, these

673
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: are these are microwavable cups that you uh, you kind

674
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: with a little Does it come with a separate little

675
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: powder packet that you have to open up an add

676
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: in or is it already all in there? I can't

677
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: remember now, but anywhere you just add water putting the

678
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: microwave on. Yes, I will say not as good quality

679
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: as the box, but it does the job. It's very

680
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: quick cooking maccaroni, so it's a little bit um uh,

681
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: it does. It doesn't have the texture. It's not al dente,

682
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: you know. Oh you gotta have your cheese. Um Craft

683
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: dropped the artificial yellow dye from their boxed mac and

684
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: cheese mix, along with all artificial flavors and preservatives. They

685
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: didn't tell anybody for about a year that they done this,

686
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: and they called it quote the world's largest blind taste test. Yeah,

687
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: and I mean, of course it was in the ingredients

688
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: label you if you took the care to read that.

689
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 1: But um, but yeah. I do want to note here

690
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: that the term artificial kind of tricksy um. It only

691
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 1: means that a that a given ingredient is like human

692
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: made using chemistry, as opposed to natural ingredients, which are

693
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: derived from planter, animal or fungal or microbial, etcetera sources. Um. So,

694
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: an artificial flavor maybe chemically identical to a natural flavor. Um.

695
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: Natural doesn't necessarily mean healthier or more environmentally friendly or

696
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: otherwise better in any way necessarily UM. You unfortunately have

697
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: to like look at every single case individually, which I

698
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: understand is exhausting, but yes, that's often what food science

699
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: is made of. Exhaustion, joy and exhaustion. Speaking of um,

700
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: in The New York Times published this piece called the

701
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: chemicals in your mac and Cheese UM that caused a holster.

702
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: It was reporting on a study that was put out

703
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: by a bunch of advocacy groups. The study was not

704
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: pure viewed or published in a journal about this group

705
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: of industrial compounds called talates um showing up in powdered

706
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: cheese products. Talates by the way, if you ever, if

707
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: you happen to want to google more about this, is

708
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: spelled in the most confusing way possible, which is pH

709
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: t h A L A T E. And I had

710
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: to just stop the podcast recording for a moment to

711
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: go look up how the heck to say that, because

712
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: that's not a combination of letters. What is though? Anyway?

713
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: Talates um. Talates are used in manufacturing plastics UM, and

714
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: when those plastics are used in the manufacture or packaging

715
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: of food products, they can leach into those foods, especially

716
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: foods that contain fats. Like cheese because talates latch onto

717
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: fats um and and these compounds are linked to hormone disruption,

718
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 1: which isn't good. Europe has banned the use of most

719
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: talits in in uh in making plastics that will come

720
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: into contact with food. The U S has not. And

721
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that like, well, okay, a, your Mac

722
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: and Cheese is not the only problem. Like any cheese

723
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: product in the United States that has been through a

724
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: manufacturing facility that uses plastics, Yes, including like organic or

725
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: natural or whatever products UM may contain talits B. I

726
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't say it's something to worry about too much, UM,

727
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 1: but it is definitely part of the case for choosing

728
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: less processed foods when you can yes, yes, well perhaps

729
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: not along those same lines, uh Craft Mac and Cheese

730
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: held promotion I bet a lot of you remember this,

731
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: announcing that the word dinner would be replaced with the

732
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: word breakfast on limited edition boxes of their mac and

733
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: cheese products. And they released these numbers. I can't remember,

734
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: but it was like a quarter of people surveys that

735
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: they ate it for breakfast, and so they were trying

736
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: to capitalize on that. You know, we eat your Mac

737
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: and cheese when you want to eat it. Yeah, yeah,

738
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: you do you but yeah, that that I mean, that

739
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 1: was definitely one of those headlines that was like, alright, cool,

740
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: corporate America has given up just as much as the

741
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: rest of us have breakfast. Yeah, Matt, mac and cheese

742
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: for breakfast. Whatever. That's fine, We're fine. Everything's fine here now.

743
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: Um And speaking of kind of uh nihilistic marketing campaign excellent.

744
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: At the beginning of this year, Craft launched this campaign

745
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: involving pink hued candy flavored mac and cheese. They made

746
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: a thousand boxes of this stuff, you know, like they're

747
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: their normal mac and cheese, but also includes a candy

748
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: flavor packet and you could enter a drawing online to

749
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: receive one. Though I'm not sure why you would do

750
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: other than Pierre curiosity. I feel like, I, uh, you know,

751
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: maybe I get the pink die. But when I heard

752
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: it was candy flavor, that was what made me stop,

753
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: like okay, what right? Because it was kind of for

754
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day and I was like, well, that's sort of cute,

755
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: like share like why why orange? Why not beyond pink instead?

756
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: That's fine? But then when I was like, wait a minute,

757
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: like why yeah, and it's it's certainly this year, as

758
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: we've discussed, I feel like companies have kind of gone

759
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 1: all out in odd promotional choices. I can't remember which one,

760
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: but it might have been the Panera bread bowl, hands gloves. Oh,

761
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: one of my friends, No, it was the ritz Cracker.

762
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,919
Speaker 1: It was the huge ritz cracker. That was the cheeseboard.

763
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: Oh huh. I texted it out and one of my

764
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: friends was like, I tried to get it, but you

765
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: have to win it, and like, so these things not

766
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: only you can't just get them anyway. Uh yeah. In uh,

767
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: there were there were a lot of write ups about

768
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: this pink candy flavored mac and cheese. Uh. The one

769
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 1: that um one Jaya sex Ana wrote for Eater included

770
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 1: the line um Craft in an explanation for its crimes,

771
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 1: says love makes people do strange things, which no, love

772
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: makes people listen to their partners podcasts. And I and

773
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: I felt very seen and kind of personally attacked by that.

774
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: So thank you, Jaya, Yes, thank you. That does crack

775
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: me up when I hear my friends kind of complaining

776
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: about this sort of thing and I'm like silent in

777
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: the background. I love an explanation for its crimes. That's

778
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: great too, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a very

779
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: it was a very well written dis piece overall distract

780
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: in the food world. We a lot of them, a

781
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: lot of them coming up. Wow. Well jeez, I feel

782
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: like we've uncovered so many more things to say about

783
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: macaroni and cheese. But alas, we have to stop at

784
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: some point. We do, you know, maybe we can maybe

785
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 1: we can do a sequel, uh, involving all these side quests.

786
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm back and cheese in yes, yes, yes, so that

787
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: that is what we have to say about mac and

788
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 1: cheese for today. Yes, but we do have some listener

789
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: mail for you. But first we have one more quick

790
00:54:49,840 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 1: brick for a word from our sponsor. And we're back.

791
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and we're back with

792
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: Cheesy nineties. I don't know I should have. I wish

793
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: i'd listen to Cheese Astaurus Rex his hit song before

794
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: I attempted this, but I I feel like I feel

795
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: like you captured um the emotion anyway, it was beautiful

796
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: work of art or finger guns. Yeah, thank you, thank you,

797
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: Samantha wrote, I just listened to your Campbell stup episode

798
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 1: and I have a personal connection to this particular topic.

799
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: I had to share. A couple of years ago. I

800
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: was on a few dating apps. If you haven't used

801
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: them before, there ms read absolute show. So to make

802
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: the process a little more bearable, I jotted down some

803
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: of the gym's I came across in bios and messages

804
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: that were sent to me. I would commiserate with my

805
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: best friend and it would make us laugh. Two of

806
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: the most memorable things that guys opened with were as follows,

807
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 1: what's your favorite kind of soup? From Adam and Damn,

808
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: you're really cute. Definitely an eye catcher. Next message like

809
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: Campbell's good from Mark nine. Um, luckily? Oh and these

810
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 1: are their ages? Not there the screen names exactly? Um? Luckily.

811
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: Between messages like that and the constant bombardment of quotes

812
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: from the office, I found my person. Yes, a portion

813
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: of his bio was defending his love of zebra print,

814
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: and I thought he seemed almost obnoxiously honest. We're celebrating

815
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 1: our two year anniversary in a few days. Oh, that's

816
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: that's fascinating, and I'm I'm glad you got out. Yes, yes, congratulations,

817
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: that's so such a great story. But yeah, I have

818
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 1: to say, I've I've got a lot of bad pickup

819
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 1: lines in mind, but I don't think I've ever gotten

820
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: a soup based pickup line. I'm really trying to think,

821
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: uh and I and I also don't think I have.

822
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: I would love to know how common they are. I mean,

823
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: is this a thing, right right? People right know about

824
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: your soup based pickup lines? Yeah, I wonder. I wonder

825
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: if okay Cupid is still like really farming, if they

826
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: still exist and be if they're still farming all of

827
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: their users data and like really using it for like

828
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: kind of like social experiments still, because yeah, they had

829
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: some reports on like the way people would interact with

830
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: each other that we're fascinating. Maybe feel real weird about

831
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 1: having ever been on that website, but but I feel

832
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: like I feel like if anyone could tell us, it's

833
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: some someone like them, how many super related pickup lines

834
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: there are in the world. This is I need to

835
00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: know unrelated. Iron wrote Your story of having dinner with

836
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: the Disney princesses also reminded me of my own Disney

837
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: related story. In my family went on a trip to Paris,

838
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: and while we were there, we stopped at Euro Disney.

839
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:14,919
Speaker 1: We had a week of delicious food, but the food

840
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: in your Disney was overpriced. I'm in a wheelchair, so

841
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: me and my sister tried to do all the excess

842
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: full rights. Because I was in a wheelchair, we cut

843
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: short lines. There was one event we lined up for,

844
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: though we weren't really sure what it was. We gradually

845
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: saw a long line of little girls and realized it

846
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: was the line to see a Disney princess. It was

847
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: extremely embarrassing, and I quickly took a picture with the

848
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: princess and got out of there. The event is now

849
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: known as the Princess Incident. The Princess Isn't it is

850
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: a good name. I only got the picture. You know.

851
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: I love looking back at the pictures of our our evening.

852
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,919
Speaker 1: They're they're very fascinating. It was fascinating is a great

853
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: word for it. Yes, because we Yeah, I was like

854
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: in my running gear, next aeal, like holding up a

855
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: fork like it's a dangle hopper. Like, yeah, like that

856
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: was our princess incidation. Yeah. It's been bugging me that

857
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention during this Disney Cinderella's Castle story,

858
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention one of my favorite really surreal

859
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: parts was that during the dinner, the way that they

860
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: would announce that more princesses were coming to the floor

861
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: to circulate and meet you was that they would ring

862
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: a giant gong. So this like gong would ring and

863
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: princesses would appear, like more and more princesses, and it

864
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: was so strong, it was, and and we didn't know

865
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: how many were coming. Yeah, and we didn't realize that.

866
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: I guess there's this expectation you'll get the pictures. So

867
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: we were kind of like, oh, we're good and they

868
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: were like no. They're like they're like, no, no, I

869
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: need you to take this picture with me. And we

870
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: were like okay, jasmin like which we eventually warmed up to,

871
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: but at first we were just very like like we're chill,

872
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: and they were like, no, we're here to make sure.

873
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: And I think even I think like even like a

874
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: like a one of the wait staff stopped by our

875
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: table to like make sure that we were like doing okay.

876
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: They were like, hey, we hear from our princesses that

877
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: you'ren't like not too into the photos, Like are you

878
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: having a bad time? We wanted you to have a

879
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: good time. Like a dungeon. Else Castle right, I'll take

880
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: the photos. It says we could have never been seen again.

881
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: It was a good time. It was no, it really was.

882
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: It was. It was magical. I promise no one forsst

883
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: to say that. Um. Thanks so much to both of

884
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: those listeners for writing in. If you would like to

885
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: write to us, you can. Our email is hello at

886
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: savorite pod dot com. We're also on social media. You

887
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram all three.

888
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: Our handle is savor pod and we do hope to

889
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: hear from you. Savor is a production of I Heart Radio.

890
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: For more podcasts in my Heart Radio, you can visit

891
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

892
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our

893
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,

894
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

895
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: your way.