Speaker 1: Pushkin. I felt like I was doing pretty much everything
Speaker 1: in my power to not get cancer, and yet here
Speaker 1: I am. That's Scott. He's a software engineer, and he
Speaker 1: builds computer programs that help doctors detect breast cancer and
Speaker 1: medical scans. He's also spent pretty much his entire adult
Speaker 1: life maximizing his physical health. Last year, at the age
Speaker 1: of thirty two, Scott was diagnosed with stage four bone cancer.
Speaker 1: He's had to pack up his life in California and
Speaker 1: moved to Texas for treatment at MD Anderson Medical Center.
Speaker 1: He's undergone multiple rounds of impatient chemotherapy, and doctors have
Speaker 1: had to amputate his right leg and remove a vertebra
Speaker 1: from his spine. I think there are a lot of
Speaker 1: ways in which I think I've matured and softened already
Speaker 1: through this experience. And I think maybe that's just our
Speaker 1: instinct to try to find meaning in whatever tragedy or
Speaker 1: adversity we experience. But I do think there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of change, hopefully for the better. I mean, it
Speaker 1: would be a shame if not only where my body compromised,
Speaker 1: but my personality also got worse. Most of the conversations
Speaker 1: we've heard on a slight change. Of plans so far
Speaker 1: are from folks who've gone through a big change and
Speaker 1: are out the other side now reflecting back. But Scott
Speaker 1: is still undergoing treatment, and in our conversation he's processing
Speaker 1: this big change in real time. I'm sure of how
Speaker 1: stories going to unfold, but so far, one thing's surprised Scott.
Speaker 1: He's handling this change far differently than he thought he would.
Speaker 1: I'm maya Shunker, and this is a slight change of plants,
Speaker 1: a show that died deep into the world of change
Speaker 1: and hopefully gets us to think differently at that change
Speaker 1: in our own lives. I've known Scott for about two
Speaker 1: years now. We don't know each other super well. He's
Speaker 1: a friend of my husband's, but he shared pretty early
Speaker 1: on that he is a total health nut. I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I had dinner with Scott. Not only
Speaker 1: did he pick out the healthiest restaurant in town, farmed
Speaker 1: a table, organic and vegan, he also chose the healthiest
Speaker 1: item on the menu. I'll put it this way. If
Speaker 1: there's rigors evidence out there that some health behavior works,
Speaker 1: I promise you Scott's done it. He's a vegan. He
Speaker 1: does intermittent fasting and high intensity interval training, and he
Speaker 1: adds turmeric and chiass to his food whenever possible. I
Speaker 1: definitely had a certain amount of rigidity surrounding health. I
Speaker 1: was adamant about getting a certain amount of sleep, adamant
Speaker 1: about eating the certain correct types and quantity of foods.
Speaker 1: It seemed like an outlet for my control freakishness. So
Speaker 1: I had read the nutrition book How Not to Die,
Speaker 1: and I was pursuing a lot of those principles pretty faithfully.
Speaker 1: The goal was to be fit and to look fit
Speaker 1: and to perform my best. The goal was certainly not
Speaker 1: to avoid death. It was more a fear of diminishment.
Speaker 1: One of the ways Scott tried to stave off diminishment
Speaker 1: was to play sports. While in grad school years ago,
Speaker 1: Scott was playing soccer and sprained his right ankle. Years later,
Speaker 1: in the fall of twenty nineteen, he was out jogging,
Speaker 1: something he did fairly regularly, when again he experienced pain
Speaker 1: in his ankle, and I sort of attributed it to
Speaker 1: that earlier injury. I think it was the end of
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen where I thought, I think physical therapy would help,
Speaker 1: and so I worked through the PT and it just
Speaker 1: didn't get better. And I'm really diligent about these sorts
Speaker 1: of things. I'm like the only person who ever does
Speaker 1: their PT exercises, all of them every time. I remember
Speaker 1: sort of getting out of bed in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night to go to the bathroom, and I would
Speaker 1: sort of be limping and hobbling, and it just kept
Speaker 1: getting worse. And at a certain point, I said, I
Speaker 1: need to see somebody about this. I had it some
Speaker 1: suspicion in the back my mind that it was something
Speaker 1: nastier than a strict sports medicine issue, like it could
Speaker 1: have been an infection or some fracture that wasn't healing.
Speaker 1: I went to go see somebody who ordered x rays,
Speaker 1: and the x rays were a little ambiguous or concerning,
Speaker 1: so they sent me for an MRI. I got an
Speaker 1: MRI and they said, okay, well you have some tendinosis,
Speaker 1: but there's also something going on with your bone. Did
Speaker 1: you ever think at any point that it might be cancer.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you said you thought it could
Speaker 1: be nastier than a simple orthopedic injury. That did cancer
Speaker 1: ever cross your mind? No, it didn't. It was listed
Speaker 1: among those things, but it just felt too remote to believe.
Speaker 1: I also felt like I was doing just about everything
Speaker 1: in my power to avoid getting things like cancer. You know,
Speaker 1: I thought it was maybe an inevitability that I would
Speaker 1: get something like prostate cancer, which is sort of rampant
Speaker 1: in both branches of my family. But that was something
Speaker 1: for sixty year old me, not thirty something exactly. Can
Speaker 1: you bring you back to the moment where you ended
Speaker 1: up getting the definitive call from your doctor. Yeah. We
Speaker 1: were in a car driving towards Santa Cruz and we
Speaker 1: got connected with my orthopedic surgeon, and they explained that
Speaker 1: they thought it was cancer and that it should be
Speaker 1: removed surgically, and that the nature of the cancer probably
Speaker 1: warranted a very intense regiment of chemotherapy, and that the
Speaker 1: presence of these other spots in my skeleton suggested that
Speaker 1: it was a fairly aggressive disease. It would not be
Speaker 1: unreasonable to describe my condition as multifocal osteo sarcoma. And
Speaker 1: the five year survival rate for patients with this diagnosis
Speaker 1: is about thirty percent. So I think that is the
Speaker 1: first time that all of that that terminology and those
Speaker 1: numbers kind of aligned and we were faced with the
Speaker 1: magnitude of the situation. Do you remember what your first
Speaker 1: reaction was, what you thought. Well, I was with Logan
Speaker 1: at the time, who is now my wife, and I
Speaker 1: think there was a sense of responsibility. I mean, we
Speaker 1: had been we were not yet married, we were engaged.
Speaker 1: I think my mortality came into relief in a way,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to solidify our bond both between us
Speaker 1: and also in the eyes of the law as it
Speaker 1: pertains to power of attorney and inheritance and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I think some of those logistics rushed forward and
Speaker 1: thought about tying the knot. Scott had to make some
Speaker 1: fast decisions after he got that call from his doctor.
Speaker 1: In the span of two weeks, he and Logan got
Speaker 1: married in Golden Gate Park, and Scott decided he was
Speaker 1: going to seek the most aggressive treatment possible, which meant
Speaker 1: amputating his right leg below the knee. The day before
Speaker 1: their weddings, Scott and Logan threw an unusual kind of party,
Speaker 1: a foot roast. A foot roast is sort of a
Speaker 1: comedy roast in which my friends teased me about both
Speaker 1: having cancer and about preparing for an amputation, and sort
Speaker 1: of everybody came up and did a few minutes of
Speaker 1: stand up so again osteo sarcoma. Of course, Scott gets
Speaker 1: basically the Harvard of cancers. I'm not sure if you've
Speaker 1: heard of it. Only about one in three hundred thousand
Speaker 1: people get it each year. I think everybody feels uncomfortable
Speaker 1: with illness and with disability, and I think this word
Speaker 1: amputation amputee is really ugly, and I think it like
Speaker 1: speaks of deformity, and I think it's scary. So I
Speaker 1: think this was a way that everybody could kind of
Speaker 1: confront it with levity. One of our friends said, you know,
Speaker 1: you may be losing your foot, but at least everything
Speaker 1: you do from here on out will be con cosidered brave.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I really appreciate the ir reverence.
Speaker 1: But wow to me that it's such a revealing anecdote,
Speaker 1: and I think says so much about who you are
Speaker 1: in the way that you're processing it. I think very
Speaker 1: few people could find humor in tragedy so quickly after
Speaker 1: a diagnosis like this. Is that just who you are,
Speaker 1: is that how you sometimes process grief for trauma, Humor
Speaker 1: is sort of one of the most important things to
Speaker 1: me and so this is a weird, crazy situation, but
Speaker 1: there's also a lot to laugh about. So your cancer
Speaker 1: treatment has recently required that you moved to Texas MD Anderson.
Speaker 1: You are now in a ward that exclusively involves cancer, right, So,
Speaker 1: like every patient you're seeing every day has cancer. Do
Speaker 1: you feel a sense of camaraderie because you're all going
Speaker 1: through a similar experience. Yeah, it's a little bit like
Speaker 1: a factory. I mean, so many patients go through it.
Speaker 1: It's like cancer Disneyland. But there's something just nice about
Speaker 1: seeing other people. You know, not having hair is the
Speaker 1: norm there. So yeah, it's nice to be in that
Speaker 1: environment where everybody has cancer, and it's it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: Like I remember the other day, my wife was driving
Speaker 1: me to an appointment and somebody cut her off in
Speaker 1: the parking lot and she sort of honked, and I
Speaker 1: reminded her, like, honey, everybody here has cancer. Everybody's having
Speaker 1: a shitty day because they're coming to MD Anderson to
Speaker 1: either talk to a doctor about their own cancer or
Speaker 1: a company a loved one to do that. So like,
Speaker 1: we're all going through something bad and it kind of
Speaker 1: puts things into perspective that it gives you a certain
Speaker 1: amount of empathy. It's easy to have road rage to
Speaker 1: a stranger, but here you you kind of it's like
Speaker 1: every stranger there's like you know something very private about them,
Speaker 1: Like having a cancer diagnosis or a family member with
Speaker 1: cancer is sort of a private pain. And here you
Speaker 1: are in this large institution swarming with people, and you
Speaker 1: know something very intimate about each one of them, And
Speaker 1: it means you're kind of nicer to everybody on the elevator.
Speaker 1: You like hold the door for people that you you
Speaker 1: might not otherwise think about, and so it does engender
Speaker 1: a certain amount of positivity in light of what's usually
Speaker 1: a crappy day for people. I wonder how involved you
Speaker 1: were in your treatment plan, because on the one hand,
Speaker 1: you're an extremely knowledgeable, scientifically minded patient who can do
Speaker 1: his own research. On the other hand, maybe there's a
Speaker 1: simplicity and deciding to defer decision making to some other
Speaker 1: person to put it all on them. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: super interesting question. There's something soothing about just being taken
Speaker 1: care of. But I also just find this stuff really interesting,
Speaker 1: Like it was very weird to be talking about biopsy
Speaker 1: results and surgical decisions. It felt kind of abstract to me,
Speaker 1: just because I could get into the weeds about the
Speaker 1: trade offs and oh how do you do that? And
Speaker 1: how is that even possible? And it didn't necessarily always
Speaker 1: feel like I was talking about my own treatment plan.
Speaker 1: So I definitely I found some perverse excitement about engaging
Speaker 1: with these well trained and very smart people on their
Speaker 1: dick matter. Did you do your own research at every
Speaker 1: step along the way? Oh definitely, And so yeah, I
Speaker 1: got I got really in the weeds reading the medical
Speaker 1: literature and trying to make the best decision, but also
Speaker 1: knowing that the best decision wasn't always the most pleasant decision,
Speaker 1: you know, So if chemotherapy would extend my life, it
Speaker 1: also really sucks. So that's the challenge of making a
Speaker 1: decision for yourself. Anyway, It does make you prone to
Speaker 1: regret because you didn't just you didn't necessarily follow the
Speaker 1: protocol and the decision is on your shoulders in a way.
Speaker 1: What has it been like to see your body change
Speaker 1: in this way? Yeah, it's been hard. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like I am more concerned on any given day, I'm
Speaker 1: more concerned with losing my six pack than I am
Speaker 1: with the possibility that this disease might kill me. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's just because it's more present, and that's just a
Speaker 1: flaw in my and vanity, and it's it's not something
Speaker 1: I'm particularly proud of. Just yeah, maybe just a quirk
Speaker 1: of my brain where it's certainly more present than mortality.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's just your brain, Scott. I find
Speaker 1: so much resonance in that, and I think it is
Speaker 1: very brave of you to admit that, because I think,
Speaker 1: you know, there's this narrative out there like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I should just be grateful that I'm alive, Like why
Speaker 1: am I caring about all these small things? But you know,
Speaker 1: a huge part of who we are is is how
Speaker 1: we feel, and sometimes, you know, as much as we
Speaker 1: might hate to it is what we look like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I miss my beard. Then again, I think I'm gradually
Speaker 1: warming to this idea. And I don't want to act
Speaker 1: like I'm reformed, but it does. As I'm sort of
Speaker 1: gradually losing function, as I've deconditioned and become less agile
Speaker 1: and more frail, I'm warming to this idea that identity
Speaker 1: is a little more plastic. Even though I can't do
Speaker 1: a handstand right now, I'm still me these things that
Speaker 1: I thought were core to my personality and to my existence,
Speaker 1: like my athletic prowess, whatever it was. As I'm losing
Speaker 1: those things at it suggests that a lot of these
Speaker 1: things are more more negotiable than I thought. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back with a slight change of plans. What has
Speaker 1: it been like to confront death in this way? How
Speaker 1: I confronted death? Or have you confronted it? I mean
Speaker 1: maybe you haven't, which is also completely fine, you know,
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's so weird that the death is feels
Speaker 1: very theoretical because the experience of the disease was really
Speaker 1: just my ankle hurts and jogging is just is uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: And then it's been the treatment that vastly overtakes the
Speaker 1: disease in terms of unpleasantness and discomfort. But in order
Speaker 1: to undergo this hideous array of treatment, I have to
Speaker 1: operate in the assumption that I'm going to come out
Speaker 1: on the other side and live a long life, because
Speaker 1: otherwise what's the point. So day to day I function
Speaker 1: as though I will be a long term survivor of
Speaker 1: this disease. It will be a formative, character defining experience.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that I'm going to die now.
Speaker 1: And it's hard to like share those two things because
Speaker 1: of course, when I have been diagnosed with something that
Speaker 1: tends to kill people, you do need to appreciate maybe
Speaker 1: maybe you should change your behavior in some way or
Speaker 1: change the lens with which you look at the world.
Speaker 1: But you also should if you're to survive. I've probably
Speaker 1: act as if you're going to survive, you know, fake
Speaker 1: it until you make it. I can fully appreciate a
Speaker 1: rational commitment to that, but when I think about myself,
Speaker 1: I would crack and break. I mean, my emotions would
Speaker 1: get ahead of me for sure. And you think so,
Speaker 1: But do you have those moments of weakness and vulnerability
Speaker 1: where you're like, look, my rational brain is telling me
Speaker 1: to act this way, but like God, this just really
Speaker 1: sucks and I feel really despondent or I'm just so
Speaker 1: enraged by this situation. Yes, but I was on mushrooms,
Speaker 1: so that doesn't really count. I think, oh, wait, this
Speaker 1: is so interesting. Do you do a trip with the
Speaker 1: hopes that it would change your perspective when it came
Speaker 1: to cancer, Because I know there's all these studies happening
Speaker 1: right now. It was clear that I had some processing
Speaker 1: to do, and it felt like this could be a
Speaker 1: useful aid confronting mortality and fairly scary statistics about my
Speaker 1: long term revival. I don't know, I guess just to
Speaker 1: let that all sink in to marinate in my skull, needed,
Speaker 1: potentially needed some enhancement, some external enhancement. The experience that
Speaker 1: made me cry was imagining the situation from the point
Speaker 1: of view of my mom and sort of the pain
Speaker 1: of having a child diagnosed with a life threatening condition
Speaker 1: and be at risk of dying. I'm an only child,
Speaker 1: I'm close with my mom, and for some reason, that
Speaker 1: perspective shift that was is always possible, but is somehow
Speaker 1: made more tangible when you're on substances like that drove
Speaker 1: me to tears. I'm curious to know how you know
Speaker 1: you're going through this huge personal and physical change, And
Speaker 1: one thing that's hard to anticipate is how the people
Speaker 1: in your life are going to change as a result
Speaker 1: of the diagnosis, change the way they interact with you.
Speaker 1: Have you noticed any changes. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people would think that since I have quote real problems,
Speaker 1: their problems seem insignificant. I think what I've learned through
Speaker 1: this experience is that there's such a degree of homeostasis
Speaker 1: in the human mind that your problems are your problems.
Speaker 1: That means that when something is bothering you, whether it's
Speaker 1: a life threatening thing or a very minor thing, it
Speaker 1: still kind of occupies the full bandwidth. So it doesn't
Speaker 1: annoy you when you hear people talking about more everyday problems. No. No,
Speaker 1: my best friends biggest toughest decision he's working with right
Speaker 1: now is which blue apron item to cook tonight? And
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about should I do that to do the
Speaker 1: surgery after cycle four or after cycle five? And how
Speaker 1: will that affect my my survival and recovery and everything
Speaker 1: like that. So I could see why there would be
Speaker 1: some hesitation in connecting, But I think I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of those Maybe if there was an advice for
Speaker 1: your listeners in that category of things. Um, it's less
Speaker 1: about what you say and more just the fact that
Speaker 1: you're saying anything at all. You see this caring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: have you noticed that any of your friendships feel different
Speaker 1: now though, or that you're, you know, for someone who
Speaker 1: is normally just so self sufficient and independent, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you're on the receiving end of all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you're on the receiving end of pity, and
Speaker 1: that might be a foreign feeling. I mean, do you
Speaker 1: do you feel that way does make you uncomfortable? I
Speaker 1: just assume that they envy me for so many other
Speaker 1: reasons that it just balances things out. I love that.
Speaker 1: What about in your relationship, what's been the hardest part
Speaker 1: about being newly married and having to go through this
Speaker 1: with your new wife? Yeah, I mean I think in
Speaker 1: our relationship, I think I had been sort of the more.
Speaker 1: I had been, more of a provider, more of a caretaker,
Speaker 1: more of a rock, and then here I was sort
Speaker 1: of crumbling, and I think it caused a little bit
Speaker 1: of a reconfiguration of our roles, hopefully temporarily. When you
Speaker 1: sign up to build a life with somebody and then
Speaker 1: you learn that they may not live to fulfill that dream,
Speaker 1: it must be really hard. And I think that has been.
Speaker 1: I mean, that has been in some ways what has
Speaker 1: motivated me to treat this very aggressively, even if it
Speaker 1: will cause long term damage to my heart or neuropathy,
Speaker 1: that is preferable to perishing. So I think seeing it
Speaker 1: through her eyes has been hard but also motivational. Has
Speaker 1: there been anything that surprised you about the way that
Speaker 1: you've adapted to this cancer diagnosis and treatment. Yeah. When
Speaker 1: you get to the other side of these events, events
Speaker 1: like a diagnosis like this, it feels like the emotional
Speaker 1: thermostat has prevailed and I am generally just as happy
Speaker 1: as I was a year ago. There are moments of
Speaker 1: more acute discomfort, uh, nausea and pain and helplessness, etc.
Speaker 1: But like the good moments are just as good. And
Speaker 1: on a Sunday morning, you're drinking a cup of coffee,
Speaker 1: you're looking out the window. It's like that moment is
Speaker 1: just as nice as it as it was a year ago,
Speaker 1: and that although my experience may be punctuated by a
Speaker 1: lot of negative experiences, that plenty of very nice moments remain.
Speaker 1: I think that people like yourself included, would predict that
Speaker 1: you would just be a total wreck and it would
Speaker 1: be absolutely constant misery. But I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's it's it's resilience that is unique,
Speaker 1: but I doubt it. And this was unexpected, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: you didn't predict this. Yeah, it's interesting because I mean
Speaker 1: it's certainly a pain in the ass, But if you
Speaker 1: knew how generally normal I would feel, it's like, would
Speaker 1: you would you work so hard to avoid this outcome?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's sort of a weird and weird argument,
Speaker 1: but oh interesting, No, I want to so. So what
Speaker 1: you're saying is like, if I'd known that I would
Speaker 1: adapt in this way and achieve my former happiness levels,
Speaker 1: was there justification for me to be so fearful of
Speaker 1: cancer in the first place. Is that kind of what
Speaker 1: you're getting at? Yeah, right, I think that is. I
Speaker 1: think that's that's well said that I think you put
Speaker 1: it together better than I could. So I don't think
Speaker 1: it's like one ought to just forsake helpful habits in
Speaker 1: order because they realize that doesn't doesn't particularly matter, but
Speaker 1: but I think it might serve you to worry a
Speaker 1: little bit less. How has this experience changed your relationship
Speaker 1: with control? As you said earlier in the interview, you're
Speaker 1: kind of self proclaimed control freak, and yeah, I do
Speaker 1: wonder if you think differently about that and how that
Speaker 1: might affect the way you live the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: It really makes you understand that you are not in
Speaker 1: control and it's a little refreshing in a way, like
Speaker 1: you can sort of release the grip on the steering
Speaker 1: wheel a little bit, and that kind of eases tension
Speaker 1: throughout your entire body. When you realize that you can
Speaker 1: do your best, you can control like ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: of outcomes, but there are certain things that just come
Speaker 1: at you that you had no chance against. Well, I
Speaker 1: love that. It's really beautiful, Scott. I think there are
Speaker 1: many listeners who are currently in the throes of a
Speaker 1: big life change and it is unresolved, and I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if you have any advice for people who don't, who
Speaker 1: don't know the end yet right they don't, they don't
Speaker 1: have that clarity. How you deal with that kind of
Speaker 1: uncertainty Mushrooms. I mean, this is I am far from
Speaker 1: a zen master, and my meditation practice has long since lapsed,
Speaker 1: but there is a certain comfort in appreciating what's happening
Speaker 1: right now, and usually whatever crisis is looming isn't affecting
Speaker 1: what's happening right now, and that if you just notice
Speaker 1: it and appreciate it, it can provide a lot of comfort.
Speaker 1: And you realize that if right now is fine, and
Speaker 1: then the same thing happens tomorrow, and tomorrow is fine,
Speaker 1: then it's probably going to continue along that path. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's really helpful. I also like how you
Speaker 1: just framed it as fine. You know, yeah, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's fine, it's fine exactly. I think listeners are
Speaker 1: going to be really lucky to be able to hear
Speaker 1: the full range of your thoughts. That's very kind of
Speaker 1: you to say, yeah, no, I really mean it. So
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Hey, thanks for listening. If you're
Speaker 1: enjoying a slight change of plans, please make sure to subscribe,
Speaker 1: rate and share the show with friends. Join me next week.
Speaker 1: When I talked with Morgan Gibbons, a transgender man in
Speaker 1: his twenties, he underwent hormone therapy to bring his body
Speaker 1: into alignment with his male gender identity, I found myself
Speaker 1: skipping at home. You know, I'm six one and I
Speaker 1: am a pretty gigantic black person. But I had so
Speaker 1: much joy in that moment that I literally could not
Speaker 1: contain it. But Morgan's joy was short lived when he
Speaker 1: was confronted with the reality of being a black man
Speaker 1: in society. You know, there was this aspect of feeling
Speaker 1: completely boxed in and caged by womanhood and my femininity,
Speaker 1: and I broke free of that, you know, I broke
Speaker 1: free of it for a little while. I had a
Speaker 1: few moments in the sun, you know. But the longer
Speaker 1: I've gone since that moment, the more I've realized how
Speaker 1: I have become caged once again. I'm not as free
Speaker 1: as I thought I would. A Slight Change of Plans
Speaker 1: is created an executive produce by me Maya Schunker. Big
Speaker 1: thanks to everyone at Pushkin Industries, including our producer Mola Board,
Speaker 1: associate producers David Jaw and Julia Goodman, executive producers Mia
Speaker 1: Lavelle and Justine Lange, senior editor Jen Guera, and sound
Speaker 1: design and mixed engineers Ben Taliday and Jason Gambrel. Thanks
Speaker 1: also to Louis Gara who wrote our theme song, and
Speaker 1: Ginger Smith who helped arrange the vocals, incidental music from
Speaker 1: Epidemic Sound, and of course a very special thanks to
Speaker 1: Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight Change of Plans
Speaker 1: on Instagram at doctor Maya Schunker. I finally have I
Speaker 1: finally have someone to write the perfect college essay about
Speaker 1: just about fifteen years. Yeah, came a little late. Certainly
Speaker 1: you already got into Harvard. Scott all right, we want
Speaker 1: to get into Harvard. Plus, come on,