WEBVTT - The Life-Changing Diagnosis 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:32.916 Pushkin. I felt like I was doing pretty much everything 0:00:32.916 --> 0:00:39.036 in my power to not get cancer, and yet here 0:00:39.076 --> 0:00:43.396 I am. That's Scott. He's a software engineer, and he 0:00:43.436 --> 0:00:46.636 builds computer programs that help doctors detect breast cancer and 0:00:46.716 --> 0:00:50.556 medical scans. He's also spent pretty much his entire adult 0:00:50.596 --> 0:00:54.316 life maximizing his physical health. Last year, at the age 0:00:54.316 --> 0:00:58.076 of thirty two, Scott was diagnosed with stage four bone cancer. 0:00:58.756 --> 0:01:01.116 He's had to pack up his life in California and 0:01:01.236 --> 0:01:04.596 moved to Texas for treatment at MD Anderson Medical Center. 0:01:05.316 --> 0:01:09.556 He's undergone multiple rounds of impatient chemotherapy, and doctors have 0:01:09.636 --> 0:01:12.356 had to amputate his right leg and remove a vertebra 0:01:12.516 --> 0:01:15.796 from his spine. I think there are a lot of 0:01:15.796 --> 0:01:22.556 ways in which I think I've matured and softened already 0:01:22.596 --> 0:01:27.036 through this experience. And I think maybe that's just our 0:01:28.196 --> 0:01:36.196 instinct to try to find meaning in whatever tragedy or 0:01:36.556 --> 0:01:41.516 adversity we experience. But I do think there's been a 0:01:41.556 --> 0:01:45.556 lot of change, hopefully for the better. I mean, it 0:01:45.596 --> 0:01:49.276 would be a shame if not only where my body compromised, 0:01:49.276 --> 0:01:54.036 but my personality also got worse. Most of the conversations 0:01:54.076 --> 0:01:56.196 we've heard on a slight change. Of plans so far 0:01:56.436 --> 0:01:58.676 are from folks who've gone through a big change and 0:01:58.716 --> 0:02:02.356 are out the other side now reflecting back. But Scott 0:02:02.396 --> 0:02:05.996 is still undergoing treatment, and in our conversation he's processing 0:02:06.036 --> 0:02:08.876 this big change in real time. I'm sure of how 0:02:09.236 --> 0:02:13.276 stories going to unfold, but so far, one thing's surprised Scott. 0:02:13.876 --> 0:02:16.876 He's handling this change far differently than he thought he would. 0:02:17.636 --> 0:02:20.356 I'm maya Shunker, and this is a slight change of plants, 0:02:20.756 --> 0:02:23.076 a show that died deep into the world of change 0:02:23.156 --> 0:02:25.836 and hopefully gets us to think differently at that change 0:02:25.916 --> 0:02:51.196 in our own lives. I've known Scott for about two 0:02:51.276 --> 0:02:53.836 years now. We don't know each other super well. He's 0:02:53.836 --> 0:02:56.436 a friend of my husband's, but he shared pretty early 0:02:56.516 --> 0:02:59.276 on that he is a total health nut. I remember 0:02:59.316 --> 0:03:01.916 the first time I had dinner with Scott. Not only 0:03:01.956 --> 0:03:04.916 did he pick out the healthiest restaurant in town, farmed 0:03:04.956 --> 0:03:08.836 a table, organic and vegan, he also chose the healthiest 0:03:08.836 --> 0:03:11.876 item on the menu. I'll put it this way. If 0:03:11.876 --> 0:03:14.836 there's rigors evidence out there that some health behavior works, 0:03:15.156 --> 0:03:18.236 I promise you Scott's done it. He's a vegan. He 0:03:18.316 --> 0:03:21.756 does intermittent fasting and high intensity interval training, and he 0:03:21.756 --> 0:03:25.836 adds turmeric and chiass to his food whenever possible. I 0:03:25.956 --> 0:03:31.636 definitely had a certain amount of rigidity surrounding health. I 0:03:32.836 --> 0:03:35.876 was adamant about getting a certain amount of sleep, adamant 0:03:35.876 --> 0:03:40.876 about eating the certain correct types and quantity of foods. 0:03:41.076 --> 0:03:46.596 It seemed like an outlet for my control freakishness. So 0:03:46.636 --> 0:03:50.876 I had read the nutrition book How Not to Die, 0:03:51.636 --> 0:03:56.076 and I was pursuing a lot of those principles pretty faithfully. 0:03:56.676 --> 0:04:02.076 The goal was to be fit and to look fit 0:04:02.316 --> 0:04:06.156 and to perform my best. The goal was certainly not 0:04:06.196 --> 0:04:12.396 to avoid death. It was more a fear of diminishment. 0:04:13.716 --> 0:04:16.116 One of the ways Scott tried to stave off diminishment 0:04:16.316 --> 0:04:19.236 was to play sports. While in grad school years ago, 0:04:19.356 --> 0:04:22.836 Scott was playing soccer and sprained his right ankle. Years later, 0:04:22.876 --> 0:04:25.276 in the fall of twenty nineteen, he was out jogging, 0:04:25.516 --> 0:04:28.996 something he did fairly regularly, when again he experienced pain 0:04:29.076 --> 0:04:33.196 in his ankle, and I sort of attributed it to 0:04:33.516 --> 0:04:37.116 that earlier injury. I think it was the end of 0:04:37.116 --> 0:04:42.076 twenty nineteen where I thought, I think physical therapy would help, 0:04:42.076 --> 0:04:45.196 and so I worked through the PT and it just 0:04:45.196 --> 0:04:48.036 didn't get better. And I'm really diligent about these sorts 0:04:48.036 --> 0:04:50.236 of things. I'm like the only person who ever does 0:04:50.276 --> 0:04:54.476 their PT exercises, all of them every time. I remember 0:04:54.596 --> 0:04:55.956 sort of getting out of bed in the middle of 0:04:55.956 --> 0:04:59.436 the night to go to the bathroom, and I would 0:04:59.436 --> 0:05:01.516 sort of be limping and hobbling, and it just kept 0:05:01.556 --> 0:05:04.956 getting worse. And at a certain point, I said, I 0:05:05.076 --> 0:05:08.396 need to see somebody about this. I had it some 0:05:08.476 --> 0:05:11.636 suspicion in the back my mind that it was something 0:05:11.756 --> 0:05:16.836 nastier than a strict sports medicine issue, like it could 0:05:16.836 --> 0:05:19.556 have been an infection or some fracture that wasn't healing. 0:05:20.276 --> 0:05:24.236 I went to go see somebody who ordered x rays, 0:05:25.516 --> 0:05:29.676 and the x rays were a little ambiguous or concerning, 0:05:30.356 --> 0:05:33.476 so they sent me for an MRI. I got an 0:05:33.596 --> 0:05:39.316 MRI and they said, okay, well you have some tendinosis, 0:05:40.436 --> 0:05:45.556 but there's also something going on with your bone. Did 0:05:45.556 --> 0:05:48.316 you ever think at any point that it might be cancer. 0:05:48.396 --> 0:05:50.036 I mean, I know you said you thought it could 0:05:50.076 --> 0:05:54.436 be nastier than a simple orthopedic injury. That did cancer 0:05:54.516 --> 0:06:01.916 ever cross your mind? No, it didn't. It was listed 0:06:01.956 --> 0:06:06.116 among those things, but it just felt too remote to believe. 0:06:06.356 --> 0:06:11.076 I also felt like I was doing just about everything 0:06:11.116 --> 0:06:15.756 in my power to avoid getting things like cancer. You know, 0:06:15.836 --> 0:06:17.756 I thought it was maybe an inevitability that I would 0:06:17.796 --> 0:06:21.916 get something like prostate cancer, which is sort of rampant 0:06:21.716 --> 0:06:25.236 in both branches of my family. But that was something 0:06:25.316 --> 0:06:30.116 for sixty year old me, not thirty something exactly. Can 0:06:30.156 --> 0:06:32.116 you bring you back to the moment where you ended 0:06:32.156 --> 0:06:37.956 up getting the definitive call from your doctor. Yeah. We 0:06:37.956 --> 0:06:45.316 were in a car driving towards Santa Cruz and we 0:06:46.836 --> 0:06:54.116 got connected with my orthopedic surgeon, and they explained that 0:06:54.676 --> 0:06:56.916 they thought it was cancer and that it should be 0:06:57.236 --> 0:07:02.716 removed surgically, and that the nature of the cancer probably 0:07:02.756 --> 0:07:09.756 warranted a very intense regiment of chemotherapy, and that the 0:07:09.796 --> 0:07:16.316 presence of these other spots in my skeleton suggested that 0:07:16.356 --> 0:07:21.676 it was a fairly aggressive disease. It would not be 0:07:21.836 --> 0:07:27.476 unreasonable to describe my condition as multifocal osteo sarcoma. And 0:07:27.596 --> 0:07:30.796 the five year survival rate for patients with this diagnosis 0:07:30.916 --> 0:07:34.236 is about thirty percent. So I think that is the 0:07:34.276 --> 0:07:39.596 first time that all of that that terminology and those 0:07:39.796 --> 0:07:45.316 numbers kind of aligned and we were faced with the 0:07:45.356 --> 0:07:49.956 magnitude of the situation. Do you remember what your first 0:07:49.956 --> 0:07:53.516 reaction was, what you thought. Well, I was with Logan 0:07:53.556 --> 0:07:57.876 at the time, who is now my wife, and I 0:07:57.916 --> 0:08:05.276 think there was a sense of responsibility. I mean, we 0:08:05.356 --> 0:08:08.796 had been we were not yet married, we were engaged. 0:08:09.676 --> 0:08:13.156 I think my mortality came into relief in a way, 0:08:13.236 --> 0:08:17.916 and I wanted to solidify our bond both between us 0:08:17.956 --> 0:08:21.876 and also in the eyes of the law as it 0:08:21.916 --> 0:08:27.756 pertains to power of attorney and inheritance and all that stuff. 0:08:27.876 --> 0:08:31.836 So I think some of those logistics rushed forward and 0:08:32.276 --> 0:08:36.076 thought about tying the knot. Scott had to make some 0:08:36.156 --> 0:08:38.836 fast decisions after he got that call from his doctor. 0:08:39.356 --> 0:08:41.436 In the span of two weeks, he and Logan got 0:08:41.436 --> 0:08:44.436 married in Golden Gate Park, and Scott decided he was 0:08:44.436 --> 0:08:47.436 going to seek the most aggressive treatment possible, which meant 0:08:47.476 --> 0:08:50.476 amputating his right leg below the knee. The day before 0:08:50.516 --> 0:08:53.516 their weddings, Scott and Logan threw an unusual kind of party, 0:08:53.876 --> 0:08:57.476 a foot roast. A foot roast is sort of a 0:08:57.476 --> 0:09:03.356 comedy roast in which my friends teased me about both 0:09:03.396 --> 0:09:09.756 having cancer and about preparing for an amputation, and sort 0:09:09.756 --> 0:09:14.676 of everybody came up and did a few minutes of 0:09:15.036 --> 0:09:20.916 stand up so again osteo sarcoma. Of course, Scott gets 0:09:20.956 --> 0:09:24.556 basically the Harvard of cancers. I'm not sure if you've 0:09:24.596 --> 0:09:27.716 heard of it. Only about one in three hundred thousand 0:09:27.756 --> 0:09:35.116 people get it each year. I think everybody feels uncomfortable 0:09:35.476 --> 0:09:44.876 with illness and with disability, and I think this word 0:09:45.596 --> 0:09:48.956 amputation amputee is really ugly, and I think it like 0:09:49.156 --> 0:09:54.156 speaks of deformity, and I think it's scary. So I 0:09:54.196 --> 0:09:58.116 think this was a way that everybody could kind of 0:09:58.996 --> 0:10:04.396 confront it with levity. One of our friends said, you know, 0:10:04.436 --> 0:10:07.796 you may be losing your foot, but at least everything 0:10:07.796 --> 0:10:09.796 you do from here on out will be con cosidered brave. 0:10:11.116 --> 0:10:13.436 I mean, I just I really appreciate the ir reverence. 0:10:13.476 --> 0:10:17.636 But wow to me that it's such a revealing anecdote, 0:10:17.916 --> 0:10:20.916 and I think says so much about who you are 0:10:20.956 --> 0:10:24.356 in the way that you're processing it. I think very 0:10:24.436 --> 0:10:29.396 few people could find humor in tragedy so quickly after 0:10:29.756 --> 0:10:33.596 a diagnosis like this. Is that just who you are, 0:10:33.636 --> 0:10:39.436 is that how you sometimes process grief for trauma, Humor 0:10:39.836 --> 0:10:42.916 is sort of one of the most important things to 0:10:42.996 --> 0:10:49.436 me and so this is a weird, crazy situation, but 0:10:49.756 --> 0:10:54.916 there's also a lot to laugh about. So your cancer 0:10:54.956 --> 0:11:00.236 treatment has recently required that you moved to Texas MD Anderson. 0:11:00.756 --> 0:11:06.036 You are now in a ward that exclusively involves cancer, right, So, 0:11:06.076 --> 0:11:09.236 like every patient you're seeing every day has cancer. Do 0:11:09.236 --> 0:11:12.036 you feel a sense of camaraderie because you're all going 0:11:12.076 --> 0:11:15.916 through a similar experience. Yeah, it's a little bit like 0:11:15.956 --> 0:11:19.316 a factory. I mean, so many patients go through it. 0:11:19.316 --> 0:11:24.876 It's like cancer Disneyland. But there's something just nice about 0:11:24.876 --> 0:11:29.916 seeing other people. You know, not having hair is the 0:11:29.996 --> 0:11:35.756 norm there. So yeah, it's nice to be in that 0:11:35.916 --> 0:11:41.116 environment where everybody has cancer, and it's it's so interesting. 0:11:41.156 --> 0:11:45.396 Like I remember the other day, my wife was driving 0:11:45.396 --> 0:11:50.116 me to an appointment and somebody cut her off in 0:11:51.036 --> 0:11:55.716 the parking lot and she sort of honked, and I 0:11:55.756 --> 0:12:00.676 reminded her, like, honey, everybody here has cancer. Everybody's having 0:12:00.676 --> 0:12:05.676 a shitty day because they're coming to MD Anderson to 0:12:05.716 --> 0:12:08.156 either talk to a doctor about their own cancer or 0:12:08.156 --> 0:12:09.836 a company a loved one to do that. So like, 0:12:10.676 --> 0:12:12.836 we're all going through something bad and it kind of 0:12:12.876 --> 0:12:15.556 puts things into perspective that it gives you a certain 0:12:15.556 --> 0:12:18.996 amount of empathy. It's easy to have road rage to 0:12:19.116 --> 0:12:22.796 a stranger, but here you you kind of it's like 0:12:23.476 --> 0:12:27.996 every stranger there's like you know something very private about them, 0:12:28.156 --> 0:12:32.156 Like having a cancer diagnosis or a family member with 0:12:32.356 --> 0:12:36.556 cancer is sort of a private pain. And here you 0:12:36.596 --> 0:12:41.676 are in this large institution swarming with people, and you 0:12:41.716 --> 0:12:46.316 know something very intimate about each one of them, And 0:12:46.876 --> 0:12:50.036 it means you're kind of nicer to everybody on the elevator. 0:12:50.036 --> 0:12:53.116 You like hold the door for people that you you 0:12:53.196 --> 0:12:57.036 might not otherwise think about, and so it does engender 0:12:57.076 --> 0:13:03.116 a certain amount of positivity in light of what's usually 0:13:03.156 --> 0:13:07.676 a crappy day for people. I wonder how involved you 0:13:07.716 --> 0:13:11.916 were in your treatment plan, because on the one hand, 0:13:11.956 --> 0:13:16.956 you're an extremely knowledgeable, scientifically minded patient who can do 0:13:17.116 --> 0:13:20.196 his own research. On the other hand, maybe there's a 0:13:20.236 --> 0:13:24.516 simplicity and deciding to defer decision making to some other 0:13:24.596 --> 0:13:27.796 person to put it all on them. Yeah, that's a 0:13:27.796 --> 0:13:31.556 super interesting question. There's something soothing about just being taken 0:13:31.596 --> 0:13:35.756 care of. But I also just find this stuff really interesting, 0:13:35.836 --> 0:13:39.716 Like it was very weird to be talking about biopsy 0:13:39.796 --> 0:13:44.756 results and surgical decisions. It felt kind of abstract to me, 0:13:44.836 --> 0:13:47.396 just because I could get into the weeds about the 0:13:47.756 --> 0:13:50.036 trade offs and oh how do you do that? And 0:13:50.076 --> 0:13:54.516 how is that even possible? And it didn't necessarily always 0:13:54.516 --> 0:13:57.076 feel like I was talking about my own treatment plan. 0:13:58.116 --> 0:14:04.476 So I definitely I found some perverse excitement about engaging 0:14:04.476 --> 0:14:08.836 with these well trained and very smart people on their 0:14:09.196 --> 0:14:12.276 dick matter. Did you do your own research at every 0:14:12.276 --> 0:14:17.036 step along the way? Oh definitely, And so yeah, I 0:14:17.076 --> 0:14:21.836 got I got really in the weeds reading the medical 0:14:21.876 --> 0:14:27.596 literature and trying to make the best decision, but also 0:14:28.396 --> 0:14:32.436 knowing that the best decision wasn't always the most pleasant decision, 0:14:32.756 --> 0:14:36.276 you know, So if chemotherapy would extend my life, it 0:14:36.436 --> 0:14:45.156 also really sucks. So that's the challenge of making a 0:14:45.236 --> 0:14:50.436 decision for yourself. Anyway, It does make you prone to 0:14:53.236 --> 0:14:58.276 regret because you didn't just you didn't necessarily follow the 0:14:58.316 --> 0:15:03.276 protocol and the decision is on your shoulders in a way. 0:15:03.796 --> 0:15:05.716 What has it been like to see your body change 0:15:05.876 --> 0:15:12.116 in this way? Yeah, it's been hard. Yeah, I feel 0:15:12.116 --> 0:15:15.996 like I am more concerned on any given day, I'm 0:15:16.036 --> 0:15:19.916 more concerned with losing my six pack than I am 0:15:19.996 --> 0:15:25.236 with the possibility that this disease might kill me. Maybe 0:15:25.236 --> 0:15:29.036 it's just because it's more present, and that's just a 0:15:29.076 --> 0:15:33.596 flaw in my and vanity, and it's it's not something 0:15:33.636 --> 0:15:37.436 I'm particularly proud of. Just yeah, maybe just a quirk 0:15:37.476 --> 0:15:44.116 of my brain where it's certainly more present than mortality. 0:15:44.796 --> 0:15:47.636 I don't think it's just your brain, Scott. I find 0:15:47.676 --> 0:15:50.476 so much resonance in that, and I think it is 0:15:50.596 --> 0:15:53.876 very brave of you to admit that, because I think, 0:15:53.916 --> 0:15:56.436 you know, there's this narrative out there like, oh, you know, 0:15:56.836 --> 0:15:58.756 I should just be grateful that I'm alive, Like why 0:15:58.796 --> 0:16:02.196 am I caring about all these small things? But you know, 0:16:02.996 --> 0:16:05.596 a huge part of who we are is is how 0:16:05.636 --> 0:16:08.516 we feel, and sometimes, you know, as much as we 0:16:08.596 --> 0:16:11.436 might hate to it is what we look like. Yeah, 0:16:11.436 --> 0:16:16.316 I miss my beard. Then again, I think I'm gradually 0:16:16.356 --> 0:16:18.396 warming to this idea. And I don't want to act 0:16:18.436 --> 0:16:25.196 like I'm reformed, but it does. As I'm sort of 0:16:25.596 --> 0:16:33.036 gradually losing function, as I've deconditioned and become less agile 0:16:33.076 --> 0:16:37.916 and more frail, I'm warming to this idea that identity 0:16:38.076 --> 0:16:41.956 is a little more plastic. Even though I can't do 0:16:41.996 --> 0:16:46.476 a handstand right now, I'm still me these things that 0:16:46.556 --> 0:16:51.436 I thought were core to my personality and to my existence, 0:16:52.996 --> 0:16:58.716 like my athletic prowess, whatever it was. As I'm losing 0:16:58.756 --> 0:17:02.036 those things at it suggests that a lot of these 0:17:02.796 --> 0:17:10.876 things are more more negotiable than I thought. We'll be 0:17:10.996 --> 0:17:25.156 right back with a slight change of plans. What has 0:17:25.196 --> 0:17:30.716 it been like to confront death in this way? How 0:17:30.836 --> 0:17:35.076 I confronted death? Or have you confronted it? I mean 0:17:35.076 --> 0:17:37.516 maybe you haven't, which is also completely fine, you know, 0:17:38.756 --> 0:17:44.716 Oh god, it's so weird that the death is feels 0:17:44.796 --> 0:17:52.436 very theoretical because the experience of the disease was really 0:17:52.476 --> 0:17:58.156 just my ankle hurts and jogging is just is uncomfortable. 0:17:58.716 --> 0:18:04.836 And then it's been the treatment that vastly overtakes the 0:18:04.876 --> 0:18:10.276 disease in terms of unpleasantness and discomfort. But in order 0:18:10.316 --> 0:18:17.636 to undergo this hideous array of treatment, I have to 0:18:17.636 --> 0:18:20.236 operate in the assumption that I'm going to come out 0:18:20.236 --> 0:18:23.596 on the other side and live a long life, because 0:18:23.636 --> 0:18:28.596 otherwise what's the point. So day to day I function 0:18:28.676 --> 0:18:31.436 as though I will be a long term survivor of 0:18:31.516 --> 0:18:36.956 this disease. It will be a formative, character defining experience. 0:18:37.236 --> 0:18:41.036 But I don't think that I'm going to die now. 0:18:41.476 --> 0:18:44.556 And it's hard to like share those two things because 0:18:44.556 --> 0:18:51.236 of course, when I have been diagnosed with something that 0:18:52.236 --> 0:18:59.036 tends to kill people, you do need to appreciate maybe 0:18:59.236 --> 0:19:01.076 maybe you should change your behavior in some way or 0:19:01.156 --> 0:19:04.356 change the lens with which you look at the world. 0:19:04.396 --> 0:19:09.916 But you also should if you're to survive. I've probably 0:19:09.956 --> 0:19:11.716 act as if you're going to survive, you know, fake 0:19:11.756 --> 0:19:15.036 it until you make it. I can fully appreciate a 0:19:15.196 --> 0:19:17.916 rational commitment to that, but when I think about myself, 0:19:17.996 --> 0:19:22.116 I would crack and break. I mean, my emotions would 0:19:22.116 --> 0:19:24.756 get ahead of me for sure. And you think so, 0:19:25.036 --> 0:19:27.756 But do you have those moments of weakness and vulnerability 0:19:27.756 --> 0:19:30.076 where you're like, look, my rational brain is telling me 0:19:30.116 --> 0:19:32.636 to act this way, but like God, this just really 0:19:32.676 --> 0:19:36.796 sucks and I feel really despondent or I'm just so 0:19:37.076 --> 0:19:44.676 enraged by this situation. Yes, but I was on mushrooms, 0:19:45.236 --> 0:19:48.596 so that doesn't really count. I think, oh, wait, this 0:19:48.636 --> 0:19:50.636 is so interesting. Do you do a trip with the 0:19:50.676 --> 0:19:52.316 hopes that it would change your perspective when it came 0:19:52.316 --> 0:19:54.196 to cancer, Because I know there's all these studies happening 0:19:54.236 --> 0:19:58.276 right now. It was clear that I had some processing 0:19:58.276 --> 0:19:59.916 to do, and it felt like this could be a 0:19:59.996 --> 0:20:08.196 useful aid confronting mortality and fairly scary statistics about my 0:20:08.556 --> 0:20:11.276 long term revival. I don't know, I guess just to 0:20:11.356 --> 0:20:16.756 let that all sink in to marinate in my skull, needed, 0:20:17.636 --> 0:20:26.636 potentially needed some enhancement, some external enhancement. The experience that 0:20:27.156 --> 0:20:31.196 made me cry was imagining the situation from the point 0:20:31.196 --> 0:20:34.436 of view of my mom and sort of the pain 0:20:34.476 --> 0:20:39.676 of having a child diagnosed with a life threatening condition 0:20:39.716 --> 0:20:43.796 and be at risk of dying. I'm an only child, 0:20:43.836 --> 0:20:46.076 I'm close with my mom, and for some reason, that 0:20:46.156 --> 0:20:51.796 perspective shift that was is always possible, but is somehow 0:20:51.916 --> 0:20:57.076 made more tangible when you're on substances like that drove 0:20:57.116 --> 0:21:01.676 me to tears. I'm curious to know how you know 0:21:01.716 --> 0:21:06.156 you're going through this huge personal and physical change, And 0:21:06.396 --> 0:21:09.396 one thing that's hard to anticipate is how the people 0:21:09.396 --> 0:21:11.956 in your life are going to change as a result 0:21:12.076 --> 0:21:14.356 of the diagnosis, change the way they interact with you. 0:21:15.076 --> 0:21:19.556 Have you noticed any changes. I think a lot of 0:21:19.556 --> 0:21:24.236 people would think that since I have quote real problems, 0:21:24.996 --> 0:21:30.076 their problems seem insignificant. I think what I've learned through 0:21:30.076 --> 0:21:35.516 this experience is that there's such a degree of homeostasis 0:21:35.676 --> 0:21:41.556 in the human mind that your problems are your problems. 0:21:42.236 --> 0:21:45.116 That means that when something is bothering you, whether it's 0:21:45.276 --> 0:21:48.396 a life threatening thing or a very minor thing, it 0:21:48.516 --> 0:21:51.996 still kind of occupies the full bandwidth. So it doesn't 0:21:51.996 --> 0:21:57.596 annoy you when you hear people talking about more everyday problems. No. No, 0:21:58.236 --> 0:22:02.876 my best friends biggest toughest decision he's working with right 0:22:02.876 --> 0:22:06.596 now is which blue apron item to cook tonight? And 0:22:07.036 --> 0:22:09.396 I'm thinking about should I do that to do the 0:22:09.436 --> 0:22:13.036 surgery after cycle four or after cycle five? And how 0:22:13.076 --> 0:22:18.756 will that affect my my survival and recovery and everything 0:22:18.836 --> 0:22:23.876 like that. So I could see why there would be 0:22:23.916 --> 0:22:30.756 some hesitation in connecting, But I think I mean a 0:22:30.756 --> 0:22:34.356 lot of those Maybe if there was an advice for 0:22:34.556 --> 0:22:39.196 your listeners in that category of things. Um, it's less 0:22:39.236 --> 0:22:43.956 about what you say and more just the fact that 0:22:43.996 --> 0:22:49.316 you're saying anything at all. You see this caring. Yeah, 0:22:49.476 --> 0:22:52.516 have you noticed that any of your friendships feel different 0:22:52.516 --> 0:22:56.116 now though, or that you're, you know, for someone who 0:22:56.196 --> 0:23:00.276 is normally just so self sufficient and independent, all of 0:23:00.316 --> 0:23:03.796 a sudden you're on the receiving end of all of 0:23:03.836 --> 0:23:05.716 a sudden you're on the receiving end of pity, and 0:23:05.796 --> 0:23:07.756 that might be a foreign feeling. I mean, do you 0:23:07.876 --> 0:23:12.436 do you feel that way does make you uncomfortable? I 0:23:12.596 --> 0:23:14.796 just assume that they envy me for so many other 0:23:14.836 --> 0:23:19.236 reasons that it just balances things out. I love that. 0:23:21.116 --> 0:23:23.556 What about in your relationship, what's been the hardest part 0:23:23.556 --> 0:23:27.116 about being newly married and having to go through this 0:23:27.236 --> 0:23:33.756 with your new wife? Yeah, I mean I think in 0:23:33.756 --> 0:23:41.516 our relationship, I think I had been sort of the more. 0:23:42.836 --> 0:23:45.876 I had been, more of a provider, more of a caretaker, 0:23:47.436 --> 0:23:50.716 more of a rock, and then here I was sort 0:23:50.716 --> 0:23:56.756 of crumbling, and I think it caused a little bit 0:23:56.756 --> 0:24:04.396 of a reconfiguration of our roles, hopefully temporarily. When you 0:24:06.676 --> 0:24:08.596 sign up to build a life with somebody and then 0:24:08.636 --> 0:24:16.636 you learn that they may not live to fulfill that dream, 0:24:16.916 --> 0:24:20.716 it must be really hard. And I think that has been. 0:24:22.076 --> 0:24:24.436 I mean, that has been in some ways what has 0:24:24.476 --> 0:24:28.436 motivated me to treat this very aggressively, even if it 0:24:28.636 --> 0:24:32.756 will cause long term damage to my heart or neuropathy, 0:24:34.316 --> 0:24:39.556 that is preferable to perishing. So I think seeing it 0:24:40.036 --> 0:24:45.916 through her eyes has been hard but also motivational. Has 0:24:45.916 --> 0:24:48.356 there been anything that surprised you about the way that 0:24:48.396 --> 0:24:55.636 you've adapted to this cancer diagnosis and treatment. Yeah. When 0:24:55.636 --> 0:24:59.196 you get to the other side of these events, events 0:24:59.236 --> 0:25:06.196 like a diagnosis like this, it feels like the emotional 0:25:06.236 --> 0:25:11.836 thermostat has prevailed and I am generally just as happy 0:25:11.876 --> 0:25:17.236 as I was a year ago. There are moments of 0:25:17.396 --> 0:25:26.276 more acute discomfort, uh, nausea and pain and helplessness, etc. 0:25:26.716 --> 0:25:31.116 But like the good moments are just as good. And 0:25:32.476 --> 0:25:34.436 on a Sunday morning, you're drinking a cup of coffee, 0:25:34.436 --> 0:25:37.236 you're looking out the window. It's like that moment is 0:25:37.356 --> 0:25:39.916 just as nice as it as it was a year ago, 0:25:40.556 --> 0:25:45.036 and that although my experience may be punctuated by a 0:25:45.036 --> 0:25:50.476 lot of negative experiences, that plenty of very nice moments remain. 0:25:52.156 --> 0:25:57.036 I think that people like yourself included, would predict that 0:25:57.076 --> 0:25:58.916 you would just be a total wreck and it would 0:25:58.916 --> 0:26:07.236 be absolutely constant misery. But I guess I don't know. 0:26:07.276 --> 0:26:11.436 I mean, maybe it's it's it's resilience that is unique, 0:26:11.436 --> 0:26:14.796 but I doubt it. And this was unexpected, right, I mean, 0:26:14.796 --> 0:26:20.396 you didn't predict this. Yeah, it's interesting because I mean 0:26:20.396 --> 0:26:22.876 it's certainly a pain in the ass, But if you 0:26:22.996 --> 0:26:27.956 knew how generally normal I would feel, it's like, would 0:26:27.996 --> 0:26:30.076 you would you work so hard to avoid this outcome? 0:26:30.116 --> 0:26:32.356 I mean, that's sort of a weird and weird argument, 0:26:32.396 --> 0:26:34.636 but oh interesting, No, I want to so. So what 0:26:34.676 --> 0:26:38.436 you're saying is like, if I'd known that I would 0:26:38.476 --> 0:26:42.156 adapt in this way and achieve my former happiness levels, 0:26:43.076 --> 0:26:46.236 was there justification for me to be so fearful of 0:26:46.316 --> 0:26:48.436 cancer in the first place. Is that kind of what 0:26:48.436 --> 0:26:51.796 you're getting at? Yeah, right, I think that is. I 0:26:51.836 --> 0:26:53.956 think that's that's well said that I think you put 0:26:53.956 --> 0:26:57.116 it together better than I could. So I don't think 0:26:57.156 --> 0:27:05.036 it's like one ought to just forsake helpful habits in 0:27:05.116 --> 0:27:10.436 order because they realize that doesn't doesn't particularly matter, but 0:27:10.436 --> 0:27:13.876 but I think it might serve you to worry a 0:27:13.916 --> 0:27:19.356 little bit less. How has this experience changed your relationship 0:27:19.396 --> 0:27:22.316 with control? As you said earlier in the interview, you're 0:27:22.956 --> 0:27:26.236 kind of self proclaimed control freak, and yeah, I do 0:27:26.276 --> 0:27:28.956 wonder if you think differently about that and how that 0:27:29.036 --> 0:27:31.836 might affect the way you live the rest of your life. 0:27:32.996 --> 0:27:41.436 It really makes you understand that you are not in 0:27:41.516 --> 0:27:46.556 control and it's a little refreshing in a way, like 0:27:46.596 --> 0:27:50.996 you can sort of release the grip on the steering 0:27:51.036 --> 0:27:53.556 wheel a little bit, and that kind of eases tension 0:27:53.956 --> 0:27:58.956 throughout your entire body. When you realize that you can 0:27:59.036 --> 0:28:02.276 do your best, you can control like ninety nine percent 0:28:02.356 --> 0:28:05.436 of outcomes, but there are certain things that just come 0:28:05.436 --> 0:28:08.636 at you that you had no chance against. Well, I 0:28:08.676 --> 0:28:12.396 love that. It's really beautiful, Scott. I think there are 0:28:12.396 --> 0:28:15.036 many listeners who are currently in the throes of a 0:28:15.036 --> 0:28:18.716 big life change and it is unresolved, and I'm wondering 0:28:18.836 --> 0:28:23.076 if you have any advice for people who don't, who 0:28:23.156 --> 0:28:25.556 don't know the end yet right they don't, they don't 0:28:25.556 --> 0:28:27.796 have that clarity. How you deal with that kind of 0:28:27.836 --> 0:28:39.556 uncertainty Mushrooms. I mean, this is I am far from 0:28:39.556 --> 0:28:43.916 a zen master, and my meditation practice has long since lapsed, 0:28:45.316 --> 0:28:52.556 but there is a certain comfort in appreciating what's happening 0:28:52.636 --> 0:28:59.796 right now, and usually whatever crisis is looming isn't affecting 0:28:59.796 --> 0:29:06.236 what's happening right now, and that if you just notice 0:29:06.276 --> 0:29:11.156 it and appreciate it, it can provide a lot of comfort. 0:29:11.516 --> 0:29:15.356 And you realize that if right now is fine, and 0:29:15.356 --> 0:29:19.316 then the same thing happens tomorrow, and tomorrow is fine, 0:29:19.996 --> 0:29:24.356 then it's probably going to continue along that path. Yeah. 0:29:24.396 --> 0:29:26.076 I think that's really helpful. I also like how you 0:29:26.116 --> 0:29:29.636 just framed it as fine. You know, yeah, you know, yeah, 0:29:29.676 --> 0:29:32.716 but it's fine, it's fine exactly. I think listeners are 0:29:32.716 --> 0:29:34.796 going to be really lucky to be able to hear 0:29:35.596 --> 0:29:38.076 the full range of your thoughts. That's very kind of 0:29:38.116 --> 0:29:39.916 you to say, yeah, no, I really mean it. So 0:29:39.996 --> 0:30:03.396 thank you so much. Hey, thanks for listening. If you're 0:30:03.436 --> 0:30:06.476 enjoying a slight change of plans, please make sure to subscribe, 0:30:06.556 --> 0:30:09.916 rate and share the show with friends. Join me next week. 0:30:09.956 --> 0:30:13.236 When I talked with Morgan Gibbons, a transgender man in 0:30:13.276 --> 0:30:16.116 his twenties, he underwent hormone therapy to bring his body 0:30:16.156 --> 0:30:19.876 into alignment with his male gender identity, I found myself 0:30:19.876 --> 0:30:25.076