Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends,
Speaker 1: we have a guest you have all been waiting for,
Speaker 1: asking for, excited for. Today, we're joined by the iconic
Speaker 1: Melanie Lynsky on the podcast Melanie has become an industry staple.
Speaker 1: She has amassed a plethora of gorgeous, thought provoking roles
Speaker 1: across film and television over the course of thirty years,
Speaker 1: and we are all obsessed with her latest role starring
Speaker 1: opposite Christina Ritchie in the ten time Emmy nominated Showtime
Speaker 1: series Yellowjackets. Soon, Melanie is leading a film called Pike
Speaker 1: River opposite Robin Malcolm, directed by Robert Sarkis, which touches
Speaker 1: on the profound impact of a disaster in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: We recently got to fangirl her on HBO's critically acclaimed
Speaker 1: The Last of Us, and today we're going to dig
Speaker 1: into what inspires her and motivates her as an artist,
Speaker 1: a parent, a spouse, and the coolest girl any of
Speaker 1: us knows. Let's dig in with Melanie Lynskey.
Speaker 2: Well, Hi, Hi, I'm so glad you're here, so thank
Speaker 2: you for having me. Thanks so much to me, so
Speaker 2: much to me.
Speaker 1: I feel like life is so crazy and since the pandemic,
Speaker 1: no one hangs out, which is okay because everyone it's crazy,
Speaker 1: But I'm like, sometimes I just have to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to bamboozle people to come sit here, just.
Speaker 2: So I can squeeze you. Yeah, until I know. I know,
Speaker 2: I feel the same Easton.
Speaker 1: This is obviously a side note, but like this, I've
Speaker 1: known for so long. You're one of those people I
Speaker 1: have that deep feeling with where I'm like, we never
Speaker 1: are in the same place, so we don't really hang out.
Speaker 2: But I am convinced.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean this in the way that fans
Speaker 1: say it to me, and I'm sure they say it
Speaker 1: to you. I mean it in a real way where
Speaker 1: I'm like, she's kind of my best friend, only I
Speaker 1: don't know it, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker 1: I feel like if we hung out all the time,
Speaker 1: you would know my you would just be one of
Speaker 1: the first people i'd call. I don't see you a lot,
Speaker 1: but you make me feel safe that way, like the
Speaker 1: way my closest friends make me feel.
Speaker 2: That's the loveliest thing you could possibly say, And I
Speaker 2: feel so the same. And it's funny and I felt
Speaker 2: it from the moment I meet you. Yeah. I was
Speaker 2: just like, oh yeah, I was like, oh hi, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah we where were we?
Speaker 1: You had that cute little house in like Eagle Rock
Speaker 1: or an Achoo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we meet when you worked with Jimmy with
Speaker 2: my ex husband. Yes. Yeah, you say that so gently
Speaker 2: and kindly. I love that.
Speaker 1: I don't have the same feeling about mine. So well
Speaker 1: done you.
Speaker 2: No, it's good. I'm glad my daughter's like fascinated with him.
Speaker 2: Really yeah. I accidentally said 's husband in front of
Speaker 2: her one day and she was like, oh mommy, and
Speaker 2: she was like, did you kiss him? Oh my god?
Speaker 2: I said yeah, I sure did a bunch of times.
Speaker 2: Yeah I know. I was like, and I kissed other
Speaker 2: people too. It's good for her to know. I don't
Speaker 2: want her to have the like well sure princes singular
Speaker 2: princes fantasy, you know, like where she's like there's one
Speaker 2: true love, like I can't stand it. Yeah. Oh how
Speaker 2: old is she? No? Six? Wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're really in it. Yeah, it's it's really funny.
Speaker 1: My partner has kids. Oh yeah, therefore and about to
Speaker 1: be three. And I don't remember exactly what it was,
Speaker 1: but it was something about you know, blenda family for us,
Speaker 1: and her little best friend at school has two moms
Speaker 1: and one of the other kids at school has two dads,
Speaker 1: and so everyone's you know, yeah, there's all these different families, and.
Speaker 2: To kids, it's so obvious.
Speaker 1: But someone said something in front of her about Oh
Speaker 1: it was us. We were going to a wedding, and
Speaker 1: she was like, but what's a wedding?
Speaker 2: And we were like, oh.
Speaker 1: How do you how do you explain to a four
Speaker 1: year old what a wedding is? And we said, you know,
Speaker 1: you know how people have mommies and daddies and yeah,
Speaker 1: and usually you know, if you don't have two houses
Speaker 1: with you know, two mommies and bonus parents and gigi's
Speaker 1: and mimmys and you know, big extended families, some people
Speaker 1: just have two people they live with in a house.
Speaker 1: And sometimes the mommy and daddy or the mommies or
Speaker 1: the daddies are married.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, how do you say it's a ceremony
Speaker 1: that it gives you a tax break?
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know how to explain any of this
Speaker 2: to a child. And so we showed her some pictures.
Speaker 1: From weddings and When we got home, we showed her
Speaker 1: pictures of our friends who got married and they're like,
Speaker 1: very cool elder lesbians in their sixties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this very cute wedding.
Speaker 1: And the immediate feedback was, wow, Auntie Cindy looks so pretty,
Speaker 1: and Auntie Michelle looks so pretty, and.
Speaker 2: Wow, look at those look at the big trees.
Speaker 1: Because we were in Palm Springs. She's very into the
Speaker 1: palm trees. And then she turns and goes, this looks fun,
Speaker 1: and we said, yeah, weddings are fun, and she goes, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna marry Ruby, who's her best friend at school.
Speaker 1: We were like, so cute, Yes, sure.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, whatever you want. Oh my god, I overhood my daughter.
Speaker 2: The other day, a babysitter who hasn't been with us
Speaker 2: for a while was there and Kahi, my daughter, was like,
Speaker 2: I have a crush on Levi and I'm going to
Speaker 2: marry Levi. And her babysitter was like, oh, I thought
Speaker 2: you had a crush on Ione, who was her best friend,
Speaker 2: and she goes, well, she's my ex girlfriend, but we're
Speaker 2: still friends. So I heard Sophie just that laughing so much. Oh,
Speaker 2: it's so fun. The stuff they say, oh my god,
Speaker 2: she's my ex girlfriend. It's wild. You're like, where did
Speaker 2: you learn I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe now she has context for yeah face two, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: I love it. That's cute. But yeah to the kids,
Speaker 2: kids are not like, wait, why are two women marrying
Speaker 2: each other? They're just like, oh, yeah, They're like cool, Yeah,
Speaker 2: these people are in love. Those people are in well
Speaker 2: we are.
Speaker 1: Really we're jumping into kids and real present. But interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: the place I love to start with people is connected
Speaker 1: because so many people know you, especially you from the
Speaker 1: iconic nature of your filmography, all the movies you've given
Speaker 1: us and the shows you've given us, the treats you've
Speaker 1: given us as viewers. And I always think this question
Speaker 1: is more interesting for people with you kids, because I
Speaker 1: think about how an audience really meets you in your work,
Speaker 1: and I wonder about who people were before they were known.
Speaker 1: And if you got to kind of put a little
Speaker 1: wrinkle in time and walk into the park and see
Speaker 1: yourself at your daughter's age, would you see yourself in her?
Speaker 1: Like would you as an adult go oh there I
Speaker 1: am yeah? And do you think you see that part
Speaker 1: of yourself and your kid.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I do. I mean, I see
Speaker 2: some of myself and my child, and I just got
Speaker 2: emotional about it last night, so I'm probably gonna get
Speaker 2: emotional again because I just she's a very deeply feeling
Speaker 2: child and her need to express herself and say how
Speaker 2: she's feeling is so great, and she can't sit around
Speaker 2: with an emotion. She drives her crazy. And I was
Speaker 2: the same, Like I felt things very deeply, but I
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily have like a safe place to get them out.
Speaker 2: Like I'm the oldest of five, my household was very
Speaker 2: busy a lot of the time, and I don't know.
Speaker 2: It was just my husband and I were both with
Speaker 2: our daughter and like holding her and listening to something
Speaker 2: that she was like outraged about, and I was like, gosh,
Speaker 2: this would have felt nice. I have two parents who
Speaker 2: were just on your level. Just like, tell me about it,
Speaker 2: tell me how that felt. I understand that you're angry.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, you know, And I was like, God,
Speaker 2: that would have been amazing. And I think I love
Speaker 2: the confidence that she has because of it. I love
Speaker 2: the way she feels totally fine to talk about her
Speaker 2: feelings and she understands who she is, and I just yeah,
Speaker 2: so the little version of myself that never really felt
Speaker 2: like it was okay to do that. I think also though,
Speaker 2: that's why I fell in love with acting when I
Speaker 2: was so young. I was like, Oh, you're allowed. You
Speaker 2: can get on the stage and be whoever you want
Speaker 2: to be. You're allowed to be loud, You're allowed to
Speaker 2: be loud, You're allowed to feel different things. I really
Speaker 2: did understand the aspect of taking something from your own
Speaker 2: life and channeling it into your work, even when I
Speaker 2: was quite young. The catharsis of it, you know, and
Speaker 2: I got kind of addicted to it, and so I
Speaker 2: don't know if I would have necessarily found it to
Speaker 2: be such an outlet for myself if I i'd been
Speaker 2: allowed to express whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, maybe if you hadn't been in that eldest
Speaker 1: darter role, you wouldn't have found your art. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: that's so interesting that you know, from not having had it,
Speaker 1: how to give it to your kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I'd probably go a little overboard. But also,
Speaker 2: is there any such thing as going overboard when it's
Speaker 2: like listening to your child? I don't. I don't think so. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because here's the thing, that I think.
Speaker 1: And it's not like there's some solution, right or some equation.
Speaker 1: You know, we're not talking about math. But you know,
Speaker 1: you mentioned she's six, You're not You're not over indulging
Speaker 1: a twenty year old. Yeah, though, I hope when your
Speaker 1: kid is twenty you love listening to her.
Speaker 2: You know, hope she wants to talk to me about them,
Speaker 2: of course.
Speaker 1: But it's like what I think about, especially when they're little,
Speaker 1: is the more you can give them and the more
Speaker 1: kindness you can show them, and the more you can
Speaker 1: permit their feelings, the more you'll be able to help
Speaker 1: them refine. Yeah, those feelings, and they're I feel like
Speaker 1: we're the generation we're all our therapists talk to us
Speaker 1: about having a toolkit because clearly our parents didn't have any.
Speaker 1: And it's like she will be more adept at using
Speaker 1: her tools, yeah, sooner, because you've given her the space
Speaker 1: to identify the feelings first and then eventually to start
Speaker 1: learning what the tools are.
Speaker 2: I hope. So yeah, Like I remember she was like
Speaker 2: eighteen months old or something and she fell down and
Speaker 2: she started really crying, and there was a family member
Speaker 2: there who was like, you're okay, you're okay, and it
Speaker 2: was very hard for me to speak up, but I
Speaker 2: was like, we actually don't know if she's okay, Like
Speaker 2: that's not our body. So I never want to tell
Speaker 2: her she's okay. I want her to figure out when
Speaker 2: she's okay. And you know, for a while, she would
Speaker 2: really react every time she got hurt, even a little bit.
Speaker 2: It was a bit like you are actually okay. But
Speaker 2: I also was like, I'm going to let her figure
Speaker 2: it out. And she's now much more resilient, like she'll
Speaker 2: fall down and she'll be like, I'm okay. I want
Speaker 2: to tell someone that they're okay. Like it's such an
Speaker 2: odd instinct for me and something that we just grew
Speaker 2: up with, being like you're fine, you're fine, And then
Speaker 2: it's like you start to lose track of your internal
Speaker 2: compass that is telling you with it you're fine. I
Speaker 2: just wanted her to be able to decide. I think
Speaker 2: that's really beautiful. I think and listen.
Speaker 1: I can't pretend to know what it was for our parents,
Speaker 1: but it really does seem like our generation of women
Speaker 1: was very much raised to have everything be okay, as
Speaker 1: long as everything was people pleasing and polite and overachieving
Speaker 1: and you got good grades, and you made sure you
Speaker 1: looked nice, and you made sure you took care of
Speaker 1: everybody else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much.
Speaker 1: And to unlearn that, to learn that you're allowed to
Speaker 1: be lowed, to learn that you're allowed to express feelings,
Speaker 1: to learn that you're allowed to be angry, that it's human.
Speaker 2: Oh god, it's such a journey. Did did art help
Speaker 2: you get there? Do you think maybe before you even knew? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess so. But I always had trouble. It was
Speaker 2: always the hardest thing for me to access. And I
Speaker 2: think just because it's so ingrained in us as women
Speaker 2: like to not be angry. And I never felt like
Speaker 2: it was justified. I never felt like the circumstances had
Speaker 2: warranted it. You learned to push things down. You're like, well,
Speaker 2: how did I play a part in this? You know,
Speaker 2: also like codependent and all that stuff. But I went
Speaker 2: to a place and did like five days straight of
Speaker 2: therapy after I broke up with Jimmy, because I was
Speaker 2: going a little crazy, and so I did a very
Speaker 2: intensive five days and one of the things I had
Speaker 2: to do was just be angry. I had There were
Speaker 2: like all these plastic like foam blocks and I had
Speaker 2: to hit them with a baseball bat. And initially I
Speaker 2: think I was just like, oh, you know, like just
Speaker 2: that seems fine, and my therapist was like encouraging me
Speaker 2: to go a little further. And by the end of it,
Speaker 2: she and I were both just weeping, Like she was
Speaker 2: standing there weeping with me, because there were so many
Speaker 2: years that were built up of things I never felt
Speaker 2: like it was okay to be angry about. And I
Speaker 2: realized like, oh, I'm scared that I'll start feeling angry
Speaker 2: and then I'll just be better and angry forever. I
Speaker 2: didn't understand letting it out and moving through it and
Speaker 2: being a more healed and healthy person. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: that was the beginning of it. Wow, Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: I went through.
Speaker 1: Something similar leaving leaving a job and knowing that I
Speaker 1: had to, but also being confused because we don't do
Speaker 1: that in our industry, right, and we certainly don't do
Speaker 1: that to protect ourselves. How dare you, ma'am?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And I went to a similar place. I did a
Speaker 1: five day intensive and really had to start to figure
Speaker 1: out how to process, and weirdly, the thing that helped
Speaker 1: me begin to understand that I deserve to be angry
Speaker 1: was when I finally started to share with some of
Speaker 1: my closest people and they were so taken aback and
Speaker 1: then so outraged, and I was like, oh, I mean
Speaker 1: I felt like a baby because I was having something
Speaker 1: mirrored and learning that that's how humans feel, and going, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm allowed to feel this. And then it took me
Speaker 1: years to work through some of that, as you said,
Speaker 1: because there was a peer where I was like, am
Speaker 1: I just going to be enraged forever?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But the weirdest thing is I had to learn that
Speaker 1: actually falling in love with my anger like learning to
Speaker 1: cultivate it and listen to it, and the way you
Speaker 1: talk about listening to your daughter, I had to listen
Speaker 1: to it. And when I loved it, it was like
Speaker 1: years of armor fell off of me. I felt the
Speaker 1: softest and most patient, but also solidly boundaried I'd ever
Speaker 1: felt in my life. And I was like, is this
Speaker 1: a thing people do?
Speaker 2: It's well, yeah, that's so beautiful. Do we just get
Speaker 2: to do this? But I know it's funny sometimes how
Speaker 2: it really does take someone else looking at you and
Speaker 2: being like that is not okay. Yes for you to
Speaker 2: go oh like I for about ten years, I had
Speaker 2: a very very restrictive eating disorder, and I was so
Speaker 2: unkind to myself and I would eat like a certain
Speaker 2: number of calories a day and if I went anything over,
Speaker 2: I would grow up. I was never like a bingee
Speaker 2: person or anything like that. It just was like very restrictive.
Speaker 2: And I had a boyfriend when I was twenty one
Speaker 2: and we were living together and kind of was like
Speaker 2: something's going on. And when I talked to him, I
Speaker 2: shared it with people before and people had been like, oh,
Speaker 2: I hate my body too, I haven't eating, you know.
Speaker 2: And I cheered it with him, and I remember him
Speaker 2: just looking at me and saying, that's so violent. And
Speaker 2: I never thought. I was like oh, he said, I
Speaker 2: can't believe you've been doing that to yourself. And then
Speaker 2: he just cried and he was like I'm so sorry,
Speaker 2: You're so perfect, You're so beautiful, and it was this compassionate.
Speaker 2: It shook me. I just was really like it changed
Speaker 2: something like just to see somebody like witness it and
Speaker 2: just say like that's not okay. And that was the
Speaker 2: beginning of my recovery, which was pretty Yeah, I'm very
Speaker 2: very grateful. Yeah, you sometimes do need somebody to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone mirroring you so honestly and authentically and from
Speaker 1: a place of kindness. Yeah, not to minimize excuse you know,
Speaker 1: it struck me earlier when you were saying like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: all these sort of concessions that women get taught to make,
Speaker 1: and you don't even realize how many you are making.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think something that happens to us a lot too,
Speaker 1: to divest us from our anger is well, it could
Speaker 1: have been worse. Yes, Oh yeah, that guy is a creep,
Speaker 1: but he didn't fill in the blank. Yeah, this was terrible,
Speaker 1: but you didn't fill in the blank. There's always a
Speaker 1: couching of Well, it was unfortunate.
Speaker 2: But not awful. I sometimes awful things are just awful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in a way, this man who just had
Speaker 1: never been taught to minimize his feelings, i'd bet didn't
Speaker 1: minimize yours and so you could stop. Yeah, it wasn't like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you're trying to be an actress and all actresses are
Speaker 1: on a diet or whatever gross disgusting thing they love
Speaker 1: to tell us. When we were young. You know, the
Speaker 1: industry was so toxic and so icky, and I bet
Speaker 1: there are so many women who were given.
Speaker 2: Well you're you're just strict with yourself. Oh, you're just
Speaker 2: very disciplined.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, I'm being violent with myself. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a big shift. Yeah, when did that develop for you?
Speaker 1: If you don't mind me asking about it, I never
Speaker 1: want to.
Speaker 2: You know, like around early puberty. Okay, Like I already
Speaker 2: was very I was like a very regular child. You know,
Speaker 2: I don't think my mother would mind me saying she
Speaker 2: has had issues with her eating, and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: you see particular things being modeled and people not eating.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of like weird food talk in
Speaker 2: our house. And you know, I already felt so self
Speaker 2: conscious and so aware of what my body looked like
Speaker 2: and not being like a stick thin little child, just
Speaker 2: a normal, regular child. And then my body started changing
Speaker 2: and I like freaked out. I just was like, how
Speaker 2: can this happen? I already was trying to make peace
Speaker 2: with what it was, and I also felt very vulnerable.
Speaker 2: And then I was reading some like teenage girls magazine
Speaker 2: like Believe Me, and I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: a great idea, like it just seemed like such an
Speaker 2: quick click fix. Yeah, and then I yeah, it mostly
Speaker 2: was just very very restrictive, which I was raised for,
Speaker 2: you know. And yeah, the very long yeah, ten years
Speaker 2: of just thinking also thinking about food so much. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thinking about my body so much, looking at myself in
Speaker 2: the mirror like as parts parts of a body, like
Speaker 2: this part, that part, what's wrong with this? What's wrong
Speaker 2: with that? And not taking myself in as a human being,
Speaker 2: which also like breaks my heart, like I not do
Speaker 2: this thing. But there are some mornings I look at
Speaker 2: my daughter and I just think, oh my god, she's
Speaker 2: so gorgeous. And I always say to her, I think
Speaker 2: that you got more beautiful in the night, and she
Speaker 2: like runs over to the mirror and she's like, ah,
Speaker 2: I think I did. I look to herself. She's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I think I did get more beautiful, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I think so. And then I have Jason, so I'm like,
Speaker 2: do you think she got and he's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: Like I just want her to know like that she's amazing.
Speaker 2: You're so beautiful, we were so perfect, And she's never
Speaker 2: looked at herself with anything other than like love and
Speaker 2: she's on these sex you know, the world is coming
Speaker 2: for her. But I just remember just whittling myself down
Speaker 2: and being so aware of all the things that were wrong,
Speaker 2: and it was such an exhausting way to live and boring.
Speaker 2: And it was interesting because I was a little feminist,
Speaker 2: Like I read so many I read everything. I had
Speaker 2: read so much feminist literature, and I was very aware
Speaker 2: of like the issues with body image and society and
Speaker 2: you know, women's rights, and we were living in the
Speaker 2: era of like third wave feminism. I felt very excited
Speaker 2: about possibilities, and I still felt the need to make
Speaker 2: myself smaller. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sometimes I wonder though about that, how much you
Speaker 1: can know and believe about the world and what the
Speaker 1: world deserves, and what your friends deserve and what women deserve,
Speaker 1: and somehow it won't.
Speaker 2: Settle for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I It took me a long time and
Speaker 1: really wondering how. I had a moment where I woke
Speaker 1: up and went, how is this my life to go?
Speaker 1: How have I paid so much attention to everyone else's
Speaker 1: well being and community well being and the well being
Speaker 1: of a set and of friends and family and coworkers,
Speaker 1: and all of which I love I don't want to
Speaker 1: give that up. But why haven't I paid attention to mine?
Speaker 1: How have I erased myself in my own spaces? And
Speaker 1: I don't think we're taught to pour into ourselves. And
Speaker 1: it really feels and I don't know maybe our parents
Speaker 1: felt this way, but it really feels like our generation
Speaker 1: of women wants to shift that for our kids. Yes,
Speaker 1: like you really want this to be, you know, a
Speaker 1: tipping point. Yeah, And maybe it's part of why there's
Speaker 1: this crazy backlash against us, because they're like, oh god,
Speaker 1: they've had a generation of access and they really want
Speaker 1: to use it.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, yep, oh, it's we do absolutely
Speaker 2: the reason. And then you see, you know in society
Speaker 2: suddenly like being extremely thin is like becoming really fashionable
Speaker 2: again and like well making yourself small yeah, And it's like,
Speaker 2: oh that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Well it's interesting to me too when I think about this,
Speaker 1: because I think about my favorite women to watch and
Speaker 1: preparing for today, I.
Speaker 2: Was like, oh my god, how could I forgotten the.
Speaker 1: Two of my favorite women to watch made one of
Speaker 1: their first movies together. You know, we were you were,
Speaker 1: yes fifteen, oh when.
Speaker 2: You did Heavenly Creatures.
Speaker 1: Crazy and I think about especially these projects that you
Speaker 1: and Kate Winslet have been doing, these conversations you've had
Speaker 1: about women's experiences in this industry, the incredible bodies of
Speaker 1: work you both have, and how somehow we're in a
Speaker 1: moment where the whole industry is like, these women are
Speaker 1: having their moments. Melanie Lensky's getting her due, Kate Winslet
Speaker 1: has a show that finally deserves her, Like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: guys have You've sprinkled magic dust on all of us.
Speaker 1: And it's not lost on me that you did that
Speaker 1: project together when you were in the midst of trying
Speaker 1: to figure this all out for yourself, that both of
Speaker 1: us you know, I don't know her personally, but she
Speaker 1: shared many of these things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it even.
Speaker 1: Feels like, oh, these incredible women are helming the most
Speaker 1: successful projects and entertainment and really taking up their space.
Speaker 1: And then you know, the sort of backlash to our
Speaker 1: auton and liking ourselves seems to be so strong, and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, no, yeah, this is my side of
Speaker 1: the sesar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. It's crazy to me. I'm just like,
Speaker 2: oh no, we can't let go of it. We just can't. No,
Speaker 2: I do have to say, Like when I worked with
Speaker 2: Kate and I was fifteen and she was seventeen, I
Speaker 2: was so in awe of her. I just adored her.
Speaker 2: We had very like big sister little sister vibes, Like
Speaker 2: I worshiped her, and we were very very close, like
Speaker 2: best best best friends. And to watch her work and
Speaker 2: to just see like she was the most beautiful woman.
Speaker 2: I didn't know people could be that beautiful in real life.
Speaker 2: Like I just was like, this is crazy. She just
Speaker 2: looked she was so gorgeous. And then you know, she
Speaker 2: went out in the world and she started working, and
Speaker 2: it just felt like the natural order of things because
Speaker 2: I was like, I've met like a genuine movie star,
Speaker 2: and then she started to become a movie star. I
Speaker 2: was like, that makes sense, that's what should happen. And
Speaker 2: then to see I guess it was mostly after Titanic,
Speaker 2: this crazy backlash that she had to endure and the
Speaker 2: way people talked about her body. I felt like I
Speaker 2: was living in an alternate reality. I was like, no,
Speaker 2: but that, like it was so bizarre and people commenting
Speaker 2: on her body and I was like, that's the most
Speaker 2: beautiful woman I've ever seen. Don't talk about anybody like that,
Speaker 2: But I just it felt like backwards world. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: the fact that she had to endure that and she
Speaker 2: did it with so much grace and so much care
Speaker 2: for other women at a time when it was not
Speaker 2: spoken about, people were not sitting around talking about body
Speaker 2: image because nobody had different bodies and she didn't even
Speaker 2: have a different bodies was tiny, but she was forced
Speaker 2: into this position and she stepped into it so gracefully,
Speaker 2: And I remember at the time being like so furious
Speaker 2: on her behalf that she had to do that, but
Speaker 2: also just an awe of the fact that she was
Speaker 2: able to and she wanted to uplift other women. And
Speaker 2: I knew it was a struggle for her. I knew
Speaker 2: how she felt about her body was a struggle. And
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wonder if she came to accept
Speaker 2: herself more because she was put in a position of
Speaker 2: lifting up other women and making other women feel seen.
Speaker 2: But just like how difficult that was for her and
Speaker 2: how unfair And at a moment where she was just
Speaker 2: like stunning the world with her talent, and of course
Speaker 2: people someone has to like take you down when you're
Speaker 2: like literally on top of the world and then the
Speaker 2: biggest movie of all times. Ione has to be like Ben,
Speaker 2: this thing an invented thing, that's not even wrong with her.
Speaker 2: And I don't know. I've just a lot of compassion
Speaker 2: for what she had to go through. And she's still
Speaker 2: doing that. She's still like such an incredible spokesperson for women.
Speaker 2: It's really like, for all these years, it's pretty amaze.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's such an odd thing to be because
Speaker 1: it does feel like they want to put you on
Speaker 1: the pedestal just so they can enjoy.
Speaker 2: Knocking you off.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, was the moment of making that film because
Speaker 1: you all were so young and you know, hadn't quite
Speaker 1: exploded out into the world of the industry yet. Did
Speaker 1: did you know it would change things? Or did it
Speaker 1: feel a bit like summer camp?
Speaker 2: It was my first job, so I just I couldn't
Speaker 2: believe I was on a movie set and Kate was
Speaker 2: like very professional, and she had been working for a
Speaker 2: long time. It was her first movie, but she'd done
Speaker 2: a lot of television and so she was really telling
Speaker 2: me how things worked. And I remember her saying, like,
Speaker 2: what are you going to spend your money on? It
Speaker 2: wasn't very much money. When I back but like I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm bent this money, and I realized like
Speaker 2: she was thinking she was going to get another job,
Speaker 2: she was going to I was like, this is it
Speaker 2: for me, Like I'm going to keep this money in
Speaker 2: a bank account to last me for the rest of
Speaker 2: my life, which is so funny. But she was, you know,
Speaker 2: thinking about like jobs in the future, and I it
Speaker 2: was just I couldn't believe I was there. I felt
Speaker 2: like I'd want to fan competition or something. Yeah, we'll
Speaker 2: be back in just a minute.
Speaker 1: After a few words from our favorite sponsors.
Speaker 2: Well, so what happened next?
Speaker 1: Because you know your filmography is over one hundred titles long,
Speaker 1: is it?
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, it doesn't seem right.
Speaker 1: I was like, my goodness, gracious, it's a factoid that
Speaker 1: I read and went grit.
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: And you you have been part of such a conic
Speaker 1: things through your career, and I've also heard you talk.
Speaker 2: About how.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's been gorgeous and it never quite
Speaker 1: did the globally explosive thing like this until Yellowjackets. But
Speaker 1: you're like one of the most prolific successful actors ever,
Speaker 1: how does that is it just hard to have it
Speaker 1: sort of resonate the things you're doing, or is it
Speaker 1: that actor's stress of every job you're wondering if you're
Speaker 1: ever going to get another job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that thing, okay. And I never had the
Speaker 2: goal of being famous. I'm very shy, I'm I don't
Speaker 2: like it. I'm very grateful now. I don't get recognized
Speaker 2: very much, and when I do, somebody is very specific
Speaker 2: and they know exactly it's either they know exactly where
Speaker 2: they know me from when they have something very specific
Speaker 2: to say, or as someone who's like, did you go
Speaker 2: to such and such college? And if I didn't, they're
Speaker 2: like like thrown off by the accent. So I can
Speaker 2: kind of still move around and just be normal in
Speaker 2: the world. I was always so afraid of not being
Speaker 2: able to do that, you know, and I never sort
Speaker 2: of being like a true famous person. It feels like
Speaker 2: a prison. I agree. Yeah, yeah, So this has come
Speaker 2: sort of like as close as I would ever want
Speaker 2: to get, and it's very strange but also manageable. But
Speaker 2: it's also so.
Speaker 1: Cool as a you know, as a fan of yours
Speaker 1: and then as such a fan of the show to
Speaker 1: watch what you ladies have built and to watch the
Speaker 1: hunger for it, the reception of it, the excitement around
Speaker 1: it for women who you know, when we were in
Speaker 1: our twenties they were telling us. By the time we
Speaker 1: were forty, we don't never work.
Speaker 2: Again, I know.
Speaker 1: And you're like, sorry, I'm just owning the hottest show
Speaker 1: on TV at forty four.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Is it sort of delicious? It's incredibly delicious,
Speaker 2: so great, love it. I love it too, and I
Speaker 2: just think there's so much opportunity. Like a very dear
Speaker 2: friend of mine in New Zealand created a show She's
Speaker 2: just Too sixty. She created a show that she's the
Speaker 2: star of It just got nominated for a BAFTA for
Speaker 2: Best International Show. It's called After the Party and now's
Speaker 2: Robin Malcolm. Oh yeah, whenever it comes out here, it's
Speaker 2: so so, so good and she's like sixy and great
Speaker 2: and funny and she made it happen for herself and
Speaker 2: it was everywhere it's eared, it's been huge. It's been
Speaker 2: so popular because like there's a hunger for it. People
Speaker 2: want to see stories about women who are not like
Speaker 2: twenty five years old. No disrespect to twenty five year olds,
Speaker 2: but you know, it's people want to stories about women
Speaker 2: who are like themselves.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I want to see stories that aren't just
Speaker 1: about high school.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I understand the irony of saying that as a
Speaker 1: girl who got famous on a show about high school. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it can't just be that. And when I look
Speaker 1: at our you know, small to overlapping large groups of friends,
Speaker 1: we are all so much hotter, better looking, funnier and
Speaker 1: more interesting than we were twenty years ago. And I
Speaker 1: think twenty years ago we were pretty cute. I think
Speaker 1: so too, but we're better now. Yeah, And I want this.
Speaker 1: I want our world reflected well. And I want the
Speaker 1: girls that are playing the high school girls now to
Speaker 1: know like, we're here.
Speaker 2: We got you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I want that so much. What is it
Speaker 1: like doing that sort of dance with yourselves and your
Speaker 1: younger selves on the show, you know, because obviously you're
Speaker 1: you're shooting in I would imagine different locations different at
Speaker 1: different times. Do you get to spend much time I'm
Speaker 1: with the alter ego? High school kids are not?
Speaker 2: Really, we try to. We try to see each other
Speaker 2: whenever we can. Sophie and I are really close, and
Speaker 2: my closest friend on the show was someone who played Lottie,
Speaker 2: and hers is Court and you who plays Lottie. So
Speaker 2: the four of us would get together a bit, which
Speaker 2: is really cute and fun, sweet and a thing that
Speaker 2: I found because I was very concerned with like being
Speaker 2: an advocate for everybody, and I reached out and I
Speaker 2: was like, if you need anything, I'll be your spokesperson
Speaker 2: whatever you need. And they were all kind of like,
Speaker 2: oh thanks. They were like that's so sweet. But they
Speaker 2: did not need me at all. There's an agency that
Speaker 2: they have that is just inherent in a way of
Speaker 2: standing up for themselves that I love. I love it. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: nobody's like is it okay if I say this. They're
Speaker 2: just like, well, I'm going to say something, and I
Speaker 2: just I'm like, okay, you really don't need me. Do
Speaker 2: you feel like you learn from them too? Yeah? Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: very much.
Speaker 1: And I always wonder about this when you're on a
Speaker 1: show that has just changed the zeitgeist in the way
Speaker 1: that Yellowjackets has. Did you did you know when you
Speaker 1: read the script? Did you think, oh, this is one
Speaker 1: of the best things I've read in years, or was
Speaker 1: it the sort of arc of season one? Like did
Speaker 1: you have a clue before it came on and you
Speaker 1: saw the reception or were you sort of taken with
Speaker 1: it the way the audience was.
Speaker 2: I thought it was really good. Yeah, I thought the
Speaker 2: pilot was so well written. I also had an infant,
Speaker 2: and I was interested in being in half of a show.
Speaker 2: I was so tired. I was like, that sounds great.
Speaker 2: That sounds great.
Speaker 1: By the way, I agree, yeah, I'm like, how do
Speaker 1: we do more of what you're doing? Oh?
Speaker 2: Please, They're like in half of the show with this
Speaker 2: other timeline. I was like, I'm listening. Oh, but I
Speaker 2: just thought the pilot was so good. I have no
Speaker 2: idea how many people they offered it to before it
Speaker 2: came to me, but I'm very but no, I know
Speaker 2: that there were really Yeah, but I'm very grateful, thank
Speaker 2: you to all those people who passed. I just was,
Speaker 2: I'm I just loved it. I loved it so much,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, yeah, this feels right. And
Speaker 2: then we made the pilot. Everything felt great, and we
Speaker 2: just heard nothing, not like good job, it looks great,
Speaker 2: what nothing? We had absolutely nothing. And then it was
Speaker 2: the pandemic and I was just like, well, I guess
Speaker 2: nothing's happening with that. Then it seems like just like
Speaker 2: nothing at all. And then I was on a call
Speaker 2: with my psychic and all I wanted to talk about
Speaker 2: was whether I was going to have another baby. And
Speaker 2: she started to tell me that there was something going
Speaker 2: to happen in my career. It because it didn't happen
Speaker 2: when I was twenty five. I thought, well, that's never
Speaker 2: gonna happen. Said that's coming, and you've already done a
Speaker 2: bit of it, and I was like, I did a pilot,
Speaker 2: but I don't think it's going. It's like, oh no,
Speaker 2: that's it. It's going. Okay, Well I want this woman's fine,
Speaker 2: I'll give you her phone number. She's amazing. I'm giving
Speaker 2: her phone number to so many people. Now she's impossible
Speaker 2: to get an appointment. Well, well it makes time for me,
Speaker 2: but but yeah, it was absolutely so. I had that
Speaker 2: kind of a hits up because she's never wrong. But
Speaker 2: it didn't make any sense to me. I was just like,
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I'm forty four years old. We've
Speaker 2: heard not a word about this pilot. It's been nine months.
Speaker 2: I think at that point, like nothing. It's so crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what you got the call and they
Speaker 1: said you need to move to Vancouver in three days later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, in one month, please change entirely. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: And your baby and the damn it. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Wait, I have all these questions about your coworkers and
Speaker 1: female rage and all these thoughts, and I'm like, hold on,
Speaker 1: when did you start seeing a psychic? Tell me everything?
Speaker 2: Oh? My therapist I had a therapist was no, you
Speaker 2: should talk to No. Yeah, I love this, I know,
Speaker 2: and she's been very she's very healing, okay, because a
Speaker 2: lot of people get very judgy about these things.
Speaker 1: And then there's also a part of me that things look,
Speaker 1: there's so much we know. There's so much we know
Speaker 1: we don't know about science and the universe, and we
Speaker 1: know where this teeny tiny galaxy in this giant you know,
Speaker 1: mcflurry of galaxies essentially, like there's so much out there
Speaker 1: that we can't possibly understand. When I think about the
Speaker 1: things we know that our grandparents didn't know, that doctors
Speaker 1: didn't know. Yeah, I get excited about possibilities and energy,
Speaker 1: and I think there are people who are tapped into
Speaker 1: that A lot.
Speaker 2: Of us aren't. Yeah, but how do you.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: feeling of well, why not if my therapist says it
Speaker 1: to me? But how did you make the leap to say, oh, forget,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to book an appointment with us.
Speaker 2: I can can see what happens. I just was too curious.
Speaker 2: She was a very unconventional therapist. She passed away a
Speaker 2: few years ago. I'm sorry, but she did a lot
Speaker 2: of weird I was in group therapy with her. That
Speaker 2: was always a fun time. Was she your five day person?
Speaker 2: She'd sent me the first time she met me, she
Speaker 2: sent me to the five day place. Oh, I like her.
Speaker 2: It's my kind of broad.
Speaker 3: It's not I don't feel like you're decision well, but
Speaker 3: I don't feel like you'd say, lady like she feels
Speaker 3: like abroad.
Speaker 2: She's abroad. She was broad like, she really was. She
Speaker 2: really was. But yeah, the first time she met me,
Speaker 2: she was like, you know where you have to go?
Speaker 2: And she like called them and I was like, told
Speaker 2: me for twenty minutes, are you sure? Like? But I
Speaker 2: trusted it? Is it time? Yeah? Wow? It was very strange.
Speaker 1: And then how do you I'm so curious about this, how.
Speaker 2: Do you kind of mitigate the.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not that comes from a psychic Like people
Speaker 1: will say it can be fun, take it with a
Speaker 1: grain of salt it, but then I'm obsessed with things.
Speaker 1: So how do you let it be additive and not
Speaker 1: make you paranoid?
Speaker 2: I think because I talk to she's very good at
Speaker 2: talking about energies, how to deal with particular people, the
Speaker 2: types of energy that's going to be coming towards you.
Speaker 2: Like if there's somebody you're having difficulties with, she can
Speaker 2: tell you. Like there was one coworker I was kind
Speaker 2: of like intimidated by years ago. She was like, just
Speaker 2: sit there and say nothing. And I was like, that's
Speaker 2: so rude, and she was like, it's not like he
Speaker 2: needs a little space. I just couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be friends with him,
Speaker 2: but I'm sort of nervous, like, and she said, just
Speaker 2: say absolutely nothing. Yeah, but I did. I just like
Speaker 2: sat in the cast here and then one day he goes,
Speaker 2: you know, I love you. Don't come in here going
Speaker 2: oh blah blah blah blah feeling that you need to talk.
Speaker 2: It just really like feels really calm, and I feel
Speaker 2: like you're just waiting for the time to be right
Speaker 2: and then we like we're still very dear friends. Wow,
Speaker 2: Like she just knows I don't think. Yeah, she just
Speaker 2: knows things about how people operate. So a lot of
Speaker 2: it when I talk to her as that is just
Speaker 2: you know, energy, or she can read the energy around
Speaker 2: like a project that might come up and my god,
Speaker 2: I'm excited. Yeah, how fun.
Speaker 1: It's very she's very fun and now for our sponsors.
Speaker 1: So that's something I'm curious about because energy is important
Speaker 1: on a project. I try to explain to people that
Speaker 1: being cast on a show is essentially like having an
Speaker 1: arranged marriage with fifteen to twenty five people.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you have to be immediate family, you have
Speaker 1: to have great chemistry, you have to somehow know how
Speaker 1: to communicate with everyone, even though everyone communicates differently and
Speaker 1: they're total strangers. Yeah, and they're going to ship you
Speaker 1: off somewhere and you're going.
Speaker 2: To live together. Yeah. So true. It's like if you
Speaker 2: had to marry everyone on Big Brother. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's confusing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And.
Speaker 1: I'm really curious because you do. You've got these parallel
Speaker 1: storylines on the show, and it's this big group of women,
Speaker 1: and I do think we're in a different time where
Speaker 1: we get to be additive to each other instead of
Speaker 1: encouraged to behave like, oh, there's only room for one
Speaker 1: of you, so compete, ladies. Yeah, how do you How
Speaker 1: does it feel energetically with this big group of women
Speaker 1: and then this sort of younger group of women that
Speaker 1: you guys want to look out for, but who are
Speaker 1: teaching you things too?
Speaker 2: Do you?
Speaker 1: Did you have to sort of sit down and go, Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: I know we all come from the early aughts, absolute
Speaker 1: nightmare of Hollywood, but we're going to be cool and
Speaker 1: be friends. Or were you all just ready? I think
Speaker 1: we were all ready. We were all very very grateful
Speaker 1: for the job, which is a nice thing. And it
Speaker 1: was also during COVID we couldn't really hang out very much,
Speaker 1: so we would do you know, Marco Polo.
Speaker 2: I would leave each other, these Marco Polos. We were
Speaker 2: just talking like and it would be at different times
Speaker 2: like mine would be when my daughter had finally gone
Speaker 2: to sleep, and Spring sitting next to her and bear
Speaker 2: Juliet's were like roaming around the streets and the cameras
Speaker 2: like over here somewhere, just like yeah, so anyway, you know,
Speaker 2: and they were all Christina's were always driving. She was like,
Speaker 2: I'm fine, I put the camera somewhere. They were all
Speaker 2: like such like a microcosm of our personalities, but we
Speaker 2: just witnessed each other like how each other's days were.
Speaker 2: And then we just started talking about our families, our past,
Speaker 2: like se really harassed us. You know, just every everything
Speaker 2: came out and it was so bonding. And so then
Speaker 2: by the time we were at work together, we're like sisters.
Speaker 2: And also I'm grateful that we all wanted to do
Speaker 2: that and trusted each other enough. And then you know,
Speaker 2: I know, people have had arguments and it's never going
Speaker 2: to be easy when there's a group of people who
Speaker 2: are so close knit. But the younger cast is like
Speaker 2: that too, they're so close. Yeah. Like at Samantha, who
Speaker 2: plays young Misty, she had a baby shower during production
Speaker 2: last season and everybody was there and it just was
Speaker 2: like really a special time to see how well we
Speaker 2: all knew each other. It was really special. What a
Speaker 2: cool what a cool moment.
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know if you're allowed to tell us,
Speaker 1: but you know, the data we have all the numbers,
Speaker 1: including you know, your film A.
Speaker 2: Season three was the most watched season. Are we gonna
Speaker 2: get a I don't know, so I want to know.
Speaker 2: I know we're all a bit panicky. I can't. I mean, well,
Speaker 2: we gotta call the psychic. Yeah, I'm scared to ask her.
Speaker 2: I haven't told her for a few months.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. When you this is
Speaker 1: gonna seem like a weird tangent. But my brain made
Speaker 1: the connection, which was, well, it's kind of the inner knowing, right,
Speaker 1: And then.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I wonder if that's how you
Speaker 2: felt when you met Jason. And I was like, I realized.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask you, did you feel like
Speaker 1: you just knew when you met Jason?
Speaker 2: And You're like, ma'am, what is this segue? But it
Speaker 2: made sense. I understand the connection here, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: Did it Did it feel very different to you, you
Speaker 1: know when you guys.
Speaker 2: Met each other?
Speaker 1: Or was it because I know you did movie after
Speaker 1: movie together. Did it a while for you to go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, wait, is it.
Speaker 2: This guy that I know? Well? We on the first
Speaker 2: movie was when we like got together, but we were
Speaker 2: both very chaotic. We both had like just gone through
Speaker 2: breakups like just and it was he I don't know,
Speaker 2: everybody seemed kind of like background noise to me. I
Speaker 2: just couldn't focus on anyone or anything. And it felt
Speaker 2: so chaotic and like my husband moved out of the house,
Speaker 2: like it was.
Speaker 1: Just well you yeah, because you were going through a divorce.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was so And it was even before
Speaker 2: like the divorce. Jimmy and I took a long time
Speaker 2: to sign divorce papers because it was just so depressing.
Speaker 2: Every time we hung out, we were like, let's do
Speaker 2: a nicktime. It just felt we didn't have It was
Speaker 2: a very easy process, but just a signing no, I
Speaker 2: get it. Oh yucky. I also think that's.
Speaker 1: Listen, that's adulthood. Nobody decides to get a divorce until
Speaker 1: they've been on a torture train for a pretty long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and when you say it's time and someone moves out
Speaker 1: or you both move or whatever, that's a long time coming.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, well, and maybe it felt different
Speaker 2: for you too.
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe I'm projecting my experience and also the
Speaker 1: experience of a bunch of my friends who weirdly went
Speaker 1: through it and I did.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting. It was a really weird summer.
Speaker 1: Speaking of I watched a video by a psychic who
Speaker 1: said twenty twenty three was the year of the Great divorce,
Speaker 1: Like nineteen twenty nine was the year of the Great Depression,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three was the year of the Great divorce.
Speaker 1: And if you actually look at the records, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I am a basic pitch that I got divorced in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, so and everybody else but a we
Speaker 1: survived it well. But I find it so interesting because
Speaker 1: when you meet someone or reconnect with someone or whatever
Speaker 1: it is in that absolute chaos, I think maybe it's
Speaker 1: easy to think, oh, this is a sweet rebound moment
Speaker 1: or a nice distraction whatever. You also maybe it's the
Speaker 1: moment you need.
Speaker 2: The love of your life. I don't know. I mean
Speaker 2: it ended up being, but if someone had come down
Speaker 2: and that's the love of your life, I would have
Speaker 2: been like, oh, I hope not. I don't he's not
Speaker 2: doing very well. Like he was such a mess. So cute,
Speaker 2: but he was like such a mess. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I barely kind of noticed it, like I was like,
Speaker 2: it seems sweet. I just had too much else going
Speaker 2: on totally, And then one night he was like, you
Speaker 2: know when I went through my breakup, Like one of
Speaker 2: the things that was really great for me was like
Speaker 2: kissing someone, like when you realize you can kiss someone.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh okay, like it just felt
Speaker 2: so weird and kiss me. I know. I was like
Speaker 2: what and he was like, I don't know, just nouse
Speaker 2: you were wondering. I all thought that was like a
Speaker 2: helpful thing. And I was like and then I realized, like,
Speaker 2: well I'm free too. I guess it's like it feels
Speaker 2: too soon, yeah, but all right, And so then that happened,
Speaker 2: and then it was very weird. We could say like
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's like the spirit of our daughter
Speaker 2: or something, which sounds weird when you're talking about kissing
Speaker 2: each other. But something something happened.
Speaker 1: You like felt something yeah, weird, something weird, just like oh,
Speaker 1: let's say say like it was like kind of like
Speaker 1: an oh no, it was sort of feeling oh god, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not even going to get to have the sludy
Speaker 1: rebound sex.
Speaker 2: I know, well there that goes. Yeah, it just was.
Speaker 2: It was very I think also neither of us were
Speaker 2: anywhere near ready for it, yeah, and I just didn't
Speaker 2: want it. Yeah, but when it happens to you. It happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's weird because you know, things are so
Speaker 1: clear in hindsight. Yeah, when I think about that, oh
Speaker 1: my god, by the way, in the absolute chaos, being
Speaker 1: like there could be no worse time, I know, realizing
Speaker 1: that I loved my partner and being like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I have there's no not trying to do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've given myself every reason not to, and now I'm
Speaker 1: going to.
Speaker 2: I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I I had a not as not a spirit
Speaker 1: of a wise six year old, but what I had
Speaker 1: was like I felt like something passed through me, if
Speaker 1: that makes sense, Like I took a deep breath in
Speaker 1: a way I never had before.
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting, and I went, uh oh yeah.
Speaker 1: But thank god because it was complicated and it was hard,
Speaker 1: and I think if I hadn't had that feeling that
Speaker 1: made me sit and be quiet.
Speaker 2: Like you've been on set with that man. Yeah, just wait.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just gonna sit in my chair
Speaker 1: and I'm going to wait. And I don't know why, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I probably should run, But what I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: is I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna wait. I
Speaker 1: sat and I waited, and now I'm like, like, I'm
Speaker 1: too old to say I know what's forever and what
Speaker 1: the future holds. But I'm like, I've just I've never
Speaker 1: I've never taken a deep.
Speaker 2: Breath like this, So yeah, it's nice. I Jason and
Speaker 2: I were talking the other day and I was like,
Speaker 2: everybody's boring. Like people are great. I love people. I
Speaker 2: love meeting people, talking to people, but there's no like,
Speaker 2: oh what that they like? You know, like, isn't it weird.
Speaker 1: When you're like I genuinely want to just hang out
Speaker 1: at home all I.
Speaker 2: Want to do. I know, I mean, this is lovely,
Speaker 2: it is. Do you know what I was about to
Speaker 2: say is I'm like.
Speaker 1: What I would really love is for you too to
Speaker 1: call or will come?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Then on my head other people that are so happy
Speaker 1: at home, I'm like, do you want to hang out.
Speaker 2: In my home? Or maybe we come to your exactly.
Speaker 1: It's just that, yeah, we have to do upset otherwise.
Speaker 2: I know, I feel great, Like it's wild.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, I love knowing because I adore him and
Speaker 1: you know I adore you, and oh my god, he's
Speaker 1: just the most wonderful and I just think about you know,
Speaker 1: we used to run around la and go to auditions
Speaker 1: together when you were babies, and so it's like I
Speaker 1: cherish him in that sweet childhood sort of energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's funny.
Speaker 1: To know that you were like not him and then
Speaker 1: everything was a mess because on the internet, you guys
Speaker 1: are a couple.
Speaker 2: You know, you're a.
Speaker 3: Couple goals, the hashtag we hate it, which is probably
Speaker 3: so annoying, but it's also because it's really undeniable how
Speaker 3: lovely you both are, and you're lovely together, and you're
Speaker 3: just very genuine about all of it.
Speaker 1: I think how much you love each other and how
Speaker 1: silly life is. How do you do you try to
Speaker 1: ignore the Internet or does it amuse you?
Speaker 2: I think it amuses Jason. Jason is more like online
Speaker 2: than I am. It sort of freaks me out a
Speaker 2: little bit. It is funny because I think if him
Speaker 2: from that period of time would see this, he would
Speaker 2: be so shocked. He'd be like, what is happening? Who's
Speaker 2: this guy like professing his love? Like he was really
Speaker 2: trying to be like cool single guy. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 2: I know it was really he did his best. Sweet
Speaker 2: It was a real journey, Sweet baby, I know, sweet baby,
Speaker 2: but we were in a couple's therapy like three weeks
Speaker 2: after we met each other with the same therapist. Amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what did she say? In our first session? She figured
Speaker 2: out that she was also seeing Jason and I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: then I guess you can't be my therapist. She was like, ah,
Speaker 2: like coming together, let's see what happens. So I was like, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: you're you have no boundaries. Oh my god, I'm amazing.
Speaker 2: So I love you.
Speaker 1: I wish my therapist had no boundaries. I keep trying
Speaker 1: to get him to hang out with me hmm, and
Speaker 1: he won't and I'm like, Trevor, you're married to a woman.
Speaker 1: I'm dating a woman. It's so not weird, Like let's
Speaker 1: all go to lunch. And he's like, no, it's not ethical,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, but why. It's like we talk about
Speaker 1: our partners all the time, and I want to, like
Speaker 1: m I don't know. It feels weird that I don't
Speaker 1: know her, and he's like, it's not weird for me.
Speaker 2: Stop stop, this is how it should bathe That is
Speaker 2: more normal. I don't like it. That is more normal.
Speaker 2: I mean, my therapist was like bringing a shaman in now,
Speaker 2: and again I'm not mad at it. I think we
Speaker 2: need the shaman for this issue.
Speaker 1: As deeply nerdy about science as I am, I'm also
Speaker 1: really into the mystical. It's like yependulum really swings both
Speaker 1: ways for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very into the mystical. Like I like, we
Speaker 2: moved a little while ago to a new house and
Speaker 2: my organizer made this box that he said, and I'm
Speaker 2: making a box that's going to be called mystic box.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh what. She was like, it's
Speaker 2: for your mysticism items. And I was like, I don't
Speaker 2: think I have. And then I was like, oh, my god,
Speaker 2: many an item, so many and that many animals? Oh
Speaker 2: my god in the tarot dicks and I have a
Speaker 2: good one for you. Oh do you? Oh I'm excited. Okay, Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm excited.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors that I really
Speaker 1: enjoy and I think you will too. I love being
Speaker 1: in my forties, and I love what love feels like
Speaker 1: in my forties, and I love our world of even
Speaker 1: work in our forties. What does it feel like for
Speaker 1: you like to be here and so present? And I
Speaker 1: don't know, are you kind of in love with your
Speaker 1: forties too.
Speaker 2: I am, I think like a big surprise, not surprise,
Speaker 2: but like, if I'm being super honest, I love being
Speaker 2: a mother so much, and so a big pad of
Speaker 2: I think in my forties because I had my daughter
Speaker 2: when I was forty one, and then I was like,
Speaker 2: I just I want to do that again, and I
Speaker 2: haven't been able to. So that's taken up a lot
Speaker 2: of I guess I have not had as much appreciation
Speaker 2: from my forties because I felt a little bit of
Speaker 2: a ticking bock on this thing that I think I'm
Speaker 2: starting to make peace with. That's the greatest kid in
Speaker 2: the world. We just give everything to this little person. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So that's been the only kind of like about that.
Speaker 2: But otherwise just feel I'm very grateful to be parenting
Speaker 2: at this age, even though it's meant that another one
Speaker 2: hasn't been able to happen, right, because I just I
Speaker 2: know myself, I know her, I know her dad, I
Speaker 2: love her dad. Like it's not a relationship where we're
Speaker 2: trying to figure things out or figure each other out.
Speaker 2: It's very calm, right, and I just has been so
Speaker 2: surprisingly wonderful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's a I never like to say a
Speaker 1: settled feeling, because I always feel like using that word
Speaker 1: is so close to settling down or settling Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: but it's like an ease, like there's more of a
Speaker 1: rest and how it feels maybe to be in this
Speaker 1: stage very very much.
Speaker 2: And I didn't think that was the thing I was
Speaker 2: capable of. Like I remember that same boyfriend who helped
Speaker 2: me through my eating disorder, we like went on a
Speaker 2: vacation and I was sneaking away to the payphone to
Speaker 2: call my agent because I knew it was like just relaxed,
Speaker 2: it's not time for work, and I was like totally.
Speaker 2: And then I'd be like, is anything coming? Like what
Speaker 2: happened with that audition? Like I was so worried about
Speaker 2: what snakes? What snakes? What's going to happen? Yeah, I
Speaker 2: couldn't imagine. Even all through my thirties, I felt that
Speaker 2: so much, like what's coming, how's it going to be received,
Speaker 2: what's the next job? And you know, I know part
Speaker 2: of that is being in a place where work has
Speaker 2: been easy for the last few years, which I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful for, but it's also just being happy. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: when I go to work, I'm like, do I really
Speaker 2: want to leave me? Do I really want to not
Speaker 2: be able to volunteer at school for a few weeks
Speaker 2: and not to drop off and not drive her home
Speaker 2: and hear about her day and everyone who's annoying her
Speaker 2: and everyone who she loves. You know, Oh, it's so crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We had a biting incident with one of Ash's kids
Speaker 1: not doing it having it done to them at school,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what is this feeling?
Speaker 2: What is this rage?
Speaker 1: What is this like I will punt a small child
Speaker 1: if they don't stop doing this ye to this kid
Speaker 1: who is magic to me? Yeah, And I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is And I called a lot my friends who
Speaker 1: have little kids, and I was like, nobody told me
Speaker 1: about like the defensive rage part. One of my girlfriends goes,
Speaker 1: you know that adage about how mom could pick up
Speaker 1: a car.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, yep, ding ding ding, Yeah, understood, got it,
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 2: The angriest I've ever seen, Jason, I think, was we
Speaker 2: were in Atlanta. My daughter like mad a little friend
Speaker 2: on the playground. He was a boy. He was like
Speaker 2: maybe eighteen months older than her, and he was maybe
Speaker 2: four and a half. She was like three, and he
Speaker 2: said to her, you just sit in the corner and
Speaker 2: I'm going to be playing, and you just watch me playing.
Speaker 2: And she was like, I'll play and he was like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you just watch and I'm going to be And so
Speaker 2: she sat there and I was like and Jason was like,
Speaker 2: get out. Like he was so he didn't like yell
Speaker 2: at a child, but he like, he was like, come on,
Speaker 2: get out of there, like, don't play with this kid.
Speaker 2: And I was like, you gotta take it down a notch.
Speaker 2: But he was so furious that anybody would like tell
Speaker 2: her child to sit in a corner and just watch it.
Speaker 2: She was like, he was like no.
Speaker 1: I was like, what a metaphor for the patriarchy, my god.
Speaker 1: Truly on the topic of saving the world, if you
Speaker 1: have to be stranded in the woods, and now this
Speaker 1: can be person or character with one of your Yellow
Speaker 1: Jackets castmates, like back to the Apocalypse question, who are
Speaker 1: you picking to really help you survive or a character?
Speaker 2: Gosh, that'd all be very very good. I do feel
Speaker 2: like Christina is very practical and she would be good
Speaker 2: in an emergency. I think I like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you could reboot any classic nineties film or
Speaker 1: show and star in it.
Speaker 2: What would it be? It's really Oh, I shouldn't say
Speaker 2: that my husband's on Metlock, but I like that, you
Speaker 2: know what.
Speaker 1: I think of that as as more of a reimagine.
Speaker 1: It's a reimagine, perhaps even a chapter two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so different. It is. The Matlock is so
Speaker 2: different and it's very fun and I am obsessed with it.
Speaker 2: I am. Do you have an answer for this? It's
Speaker 2: such a good question.
Speaker 1: I do, and I read the weird thing? Is it
Speaker 1: hit me this week?
Speaker 2: Moonlighting? Oh, it's so good. Come on right, See my
Speaker 2: favorite show when I was maybe like ten, that's not
Speaker 2: quite the when was thirty something. That was my favorite show.
Speaker 2: But I think that's late eighties. That's okay, it's close enough.
Speaker 2: It was my favorite show. Oh, I lated it. And
Speaker 2: I also really loved La Law. Oh my god. La
Speaker 2: Law was so good. It's so good. Yeah, is there
Speaker 2: a good like Flashy? We could be like sexy lawyers.
Speaker 2: You know, I would like to play a lawyer. I
Speaker 2: would too. I never get to do stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Why I always have a car? I'm always like in
Speaker 2: a plaid shirt or like because you was.
Speaker 1: So emotionally available as an that people are like, let
Speaker 1: us see her, let us see the darkness, and you're like,
Speaker 1: give me a.
Speaker 2: You want a power suit and a nice heel. I do.
Speaker 1: Put some shitty lawyer named Zach in his place.
Speaker 2: I never have to wear heels at look. Okay, never.
Speaker 1: Hollywood, Like, who do I address for this part? If
Speaker 1: you're listening, Hollywood, we'd like to do a law show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, and you should be on it. I
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 1: Oh, my dad still can't believe I'm not a lawyer.
Speaker 1: He's like you just He's like, you.
Speaker 2: Were made to argue on behalf of people. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you're what You're not? Charles. What's a role?
Speaker 1: Well, this is always a funny question because I'm like,
Speaker 1: this came from one of our producers who's never had
Speaker 1: to audition for anything.
Speaker 2: What's the role that you turned down that you still
Speaker 2: think about? Well, I was never in a position to
Speaker 2: be like.
Speaker 1: When people say have to choose your roles, You're like,
Speaker 1: I am auditioning a job.
Speaker 2: I will say it's been a long time since I
Speaker 2: which I'm feel very grateful, which feels correct because I'm
Speaker 2: bad at it. I hate it. I think it's a
Speaker 2: separate skill.
Speaker 1: It is, and it's like, I'm never going to have
Speaker 1: the experience I don't care who I'm reading with that
Speaker 1: I'm going to have with you in a scene when
Speaker 1: you surprise me with something you think or like it's
Speaker 1: alchemy between two people and the audition is inherently hollow
Speaker 1: because the other person isn't there. Yeah, thank you for
Speaker 1: coming to my ted talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a chemistry read I'm fine with same. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but just an audition, and especially when they give you
Speaker 2: like all the crying scenes.
Speaker 1: And it's like twelve pages by tomorrow, I know, my god, no,
Speaker 1: thank you? Yeah, Okay, I think this is a long list.
Speaker 1: But who has been the celebrity fan of yellow jackets
Speaker 1: that's just tickled you the most or surprised you the most.
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's really nice that it's been received so well. God,
Speaker 2: I actually don't know. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: In my brain I have this vision of Meryl streep
Speaker 1: Oh telling you how much she loves yellow Jackets. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's happened.
Speaker 2: But happen it's not happened.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, in my brain, that would be the really
Speaker 1: fun one for you.
Speaker 2: That would be a really fun one. I think it's true.
Speaker 2: I think it's true. I was at a Patty and
Speaker 2: making the staalim. It was like I love you, and
Speaker 2: I said I love you and she goes, no, you don't,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't look that uncool, Like
Speaker 2: yes I do. I was like, I really genuinely do.
Speaker 2: She's so cool. It's so cool. The fact that you
Speaker 2: said that, Okay.
Speaker 1: We're officially now the Megan the Stallion fan club means
Speaker 1: I have to tell you what happened. So this past year,
Speaker 1: Elton John does this big fundraiser during the Oscars to
Speaker 1: raise money for the AIDS Foundation. I went, I turn
Speaker 1: around and Megan the Stallion is eight inches from my face,
Speaker 1: floating by in this.
Speaker 2: Like Marrigl dress. She's so beautiful, and I got she's
Speaker 2: so beautiful, it's like crazy.
Speaker 1: I lost control of my physical body and gasped that
Speaker 1: loud into her face and she turned and I went, sorry,
Speaker 1: I love you, and she goes, oh my god, girl,
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 2: And I was like not possible. And she was like
Speaker 2: what and her friend was like.
Speaker 1: No, she she really like she likes your show. And
Speaker 1: I was like wait what And I was like, we
Speaker 1: have to take a picture and nobody's gonna believe me
Speaker 1: that this happened.
Speaker 2: And we took a picture, and then for the rest
Speaker 2: of the night, I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, she's just really a nice lady who probably is
Speaker 1: so nice to everyone who loves her and makes you
Speaker 1: feel like she knows you and loves you. And I
Speaker 1: saw her yesterday and I walked into.
Speaker 2: A room and she went Sylphia her girl. And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, she meant it. I'm telling
Speaker 2: you that it's trick.
Speaker 1: She's she likes serialized television dramas and she mean, Okay,
Speaker 1: she meant it.
Speaker 2: That's nice. She was very sweet. She's an icon. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I could not have been more awkward. No, And then
Speaker 2: I stood differ a minute, and then I was like,
Speaker 2: can I get you a drink? She was like, okay,
Speaker 2: there's no like buying, you know, you just get it.
Speaker 2: I don't drink. I can't be you can get a drink.
Speaker 2: She's fine, just like thanks though, and you're like cool.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I was such a nerdy kid, like
Speaker 2: I don't know how.
Speaker 1: To I can't be in those rooms. I can't be
Speaker 1: around famous people and my best friend it's horrible, and
Speaker 1: my best friend goes to things with me, and she'll
Speaker 1: be like, stop at your being so weird.
Speaker 2: You are also a famous person, And I'm like, not
Speaker 2: like Megan the Stallion, like I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't know why suddenly I lose the ability to
Speaker 1: be regular because I'm like, well, do I tell you
Speaker 1: about all the things I know that you've done that
Speaker 1: I think are great?
Speaker 2: Or is that awkward? So then do I not tell you? So?
Speaker 1: Then do I pretend that I don't know about you?
Speaker 1: So I feel like I become the the like clown
Speaker 1: car version of myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a good look for me. I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's very adorable. It's not. But but I know what
Speaker 2: you mean, Like it's a really it's very hard to
Speaker 2: know how to behave mm hmm hmm. Well, I can't
Speaker 2: wait to just start running and hiding behind you at work.
Speaker 2: Please please, thank God, more awkward, perfect, great come out
Speaker 2: from behind me. You'll seem really collected, really cool.
Speaker 1: I just I'm gonna I'm going to take a page
Speaker 1: from the psychic and just be quiet.
Speaker 2: It's so so weird, Like I've never felt more awkward
Speaker 2: in my life.
Speaker 1: She's right, Well, yep, and now you're friends with this man? Yeah,
Speaker 1: dying to know who it is, but I shan't ask
Speaker 1: whilst the world is listening, My dear, My favorite thing
Speaker 1: to ask people is and it can be personal or professional,
Speaker 1: it can really be anything that comes to mind. But
Speaker 1: right now, for you, in this lovely moment in your life,
Speaker 1: what feels like you're working progress?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, there's there's so much. I feel like I
Speaker 2: still am learning to accept good things. It sounds a
Speaker 2: bit silly, but I had to admit that to myself
Speaker 2: the other day. Yeah, like, you don't have to sort
Speaker 2: of struggle through something. You can ask for things to
Speaker 2: be better. You don't have to be well, this is
Speaker 2: like better than my wildest dreams. You know. It's just
Speaker 2: allowing yourself to want good things and good people around you.
Speaker 2: And like, I don't know, I just sort of it's
Speaker 2: so hard for me to accept positive things happening that
Speaker 2: there's a part of me that's like, well that's enough,
Speaker 2: then that's good. Thank you so much. I had, and
Speaker 2: then I was like, no, I want good things to
Speaker 2: keep happening and I to multiply. Yeah, And so I
Speaker 2: think it's that. And then also just every day with
Speaker 2: my daughter, just trying to be a better parent to
Speaker 2: her and learn more about her. I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean it's sort of interesting, right. You never want
Speaker 1: her to feel like she had a finite amount of
Speaker 1: good things.
Speaker 2: Oh no, So yeah, here's an interesting like reparenting of
Speaker 2: yourself that happens. Yeah, it's kind of cool, it's amazing.
Speaker 2: And I remember Sarah Paulson said that to me years ago,
Speaker 2: who was one of my very wisest friends. And she
Speaker 2: always like she would be a therapist if she wasn't
Speaker 2: an actor. She just always has the most perfect thing.
Speaker 2: And I remember being very anxious about doing something after
Speaker 2: work or something like that, and feeling very guilty about
Speaker 2: being away from my child. And she pointed out to
Speaker 2: me that, you know, when you've had any kind of
Speaker 2: like neglect is a big word, but you know you've
Speaker 2: felt sort of things missing in your life, you can
Speaker 2: really try to overcorrect with your kids. And she said,
Speaker 2: you have to understand that like having your own time
Speaker 2: and doing something for yourself is not neglect. It's very natural.
Speaker 2: It's actually really good for her to see that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, yeah, I am kind of
Speaker 2: over correcting. And she doesn't want a parent who's just like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to be here with you whenever I'm
Speaker 2: not actively working for the household. You know, she's seeing
Speaker 2: her mom have a life. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing is the love you model with your
Speaker 1: spouse will teach her. Yeah, love she sees you give
Speaker 1: yourself will teach her. The love she sees between you
Speaker 1: and your girlfriends, yeah, will teach her. And I think
Speaker 1: it's really special to remember that. You know, if this
Speaker 1: is neutral and and your upbringing felt like this much
Speaker 1: was in the red, you don't want to go that
Speaker 1: much farther into the green.
Speaker 2: You wanna you want to get like just on the
Speaker 2: other side of the neutral. And yeah, so it's full
Speaker 2: but easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's that's a really that's a beautiful observation.
Speaker 2: Me. Thank you for sharing, thank you for coming, Thank
Speaker 2: you for having me.
Speaker 1: Lola.
Speaker 2: This is so fun. This is so fun.