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Speaker 1: Last time on Obscureum Invasion of the Drones.

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Speaker 2: We track high value aerospace targets so to breakdown into

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Speaker 2: the business world, but our many focus is to go

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Speaker 2: after the UAPs better within the news.

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Speaker 3: Right now, now, big white one looks like it's coming closer.

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Speaker 4: They are all over.

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Speaker 3: There's another one right directly above me, to my left.

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Speaker 5: The most plausible thing I heard, though, was that it

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Speaker 5: was somebody that was conducting experiments as far as figuring

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Speaker 5: out whether these things can do perimeter surveillance or missile sites.

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Speaker 1: There's actually a report that one of these mysterious crafts landed.

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Speaker 2: Were there other drones there besides mine? Yeah, without a doubt.

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you who they were?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Do you think he's lying?

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Speaker 1: Despite pushback from the FAA and helping me speak with

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Speaker 1: special agent called Bumberger of the Law Enforcement Assistance Program,

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Speaker 1: I figured out how to contact him directly. I never

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Speaker 1: received a response. I worked at other angles, and one

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Speaker 1: of those was to look further into what Rod Miller

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Speaker 1: and his group of backcountry drone hunters were still observing

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Speaker 1: months after the initial sightings. I'd soon learn that some

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Speaker 1: of their revelations were much more mysterious than the FAA

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Speaker 1: is Silence chapter thirteen. Into the Night, Rod became the

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Speaker 1: go to local everyone shared their unidentified aircraft experiences with

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Speaker 1: the social media group he was always active in, called

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Speaker 1: Drone Intelligence Center Colorado, Nebraska, Wyoming in all other states

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Speaker 1: stayed the long term hub for public conversation. However, what

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Speaker 1: was being talked about in Rod's separate drone hunter's messenger

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Speaker 1: chat remained a secret. I reconnected with Rod with the

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Speaker 1: hope that after we'd catch up, he'd add me to

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Speaker 1: the private thread.

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Speaker 6: I use a Geiger counter, which is of course when

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Speaker 6: I start out as always zero, and then also having

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Speaker 6: any MF meter. Of course, he didn't show any lights

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Speaker 6: at all because there's no electrical I mean, there was

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Speaker 6: nothing out there.

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Speaker 1: Rod's latest process for studying the craft involved using a

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Speaker 1: Geiger counter to detect radiation in an EMF meter to

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Speaker 1: signal electromagnetic fields usually emitted from man made sources such

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Speaker 1: as wiring. He frequented many areas to follow the objects,

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Speaker 1: but his self discovered ancient site in northeast Colorado continued

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Speaker 1: to be a hotbed for activity.

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Speaker 6: I know one night there was eleven of the orbs

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Speaker 6: that left the site the MF meter pegged itself, which

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Speaker 6: is huge, and the guy encounter was like an off

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Speaker 6: radiation to So there's that's just two of the things

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Speaker 6: I check. You know, it's we don't know what. I

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Speaker 6: don't know what else that throws off.

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Speaker 1: Rod sent me a couple videos of what he described.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't a way to verify his exact location when

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Speaker 1: the clip was taken or what might be just outside

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Speaker 1: of the video frame.

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Speaker 6: I would notice that these orbs would flash lights, and

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Speaker 6: it's like they're communicated with each other with flashing lights.

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Speaker 6: So it got to the point where when I was

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Speaker 6: at my setup, that's what I would do is I

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Speaker 6: would flash lights in the same patterns that they are

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Speaker 6: and which would bring him in closer. And then I

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Speaker 6: have tested different tones, and when I play the sounds

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Speaker 6: it if it's an upbeat tempo, they will actually the

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Speaker 6: ORMs flash their lights in beat with the music. I'm

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Speaker 6: videos to show this. If I use a different tone

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Speaker 6: that's a real peaceful, mellow tone, the orbit will just

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Speaker 6: turn really pretty blue color. The whole thing will be blue.

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Speaker 6: And but if you use a bass tone, they turned red.

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Speaker 6: They become violent. I mean, they'll come at you real hard.

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Speaker 6: They act like a living bean. I mean they show curiosity.

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Speaker 6: They just show different emotions. You know, you can feel it.

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Speaker 6: One time I was playing the mellow tone that turned

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Speaker 6: them blue, and I had one come literally right up

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Speaker 6: in front of me, and then it went back to

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Speaker 6: the other arms real quick, and then it came up

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Speaker 6: by me and it was there, literally so close. I

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Speaker 6: felt like I could reach out. I could actually feel

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Speaker 6: some kind of a weird energy coming off of it.

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Speaker 1: Rod spoke with a directness. The things he said didn't

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Speaker 1: seem possible, but he pulled me into his world in

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Speaker 1: a way where I found myself rooting for his story

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Speaker 1: to be true. Was he just grasping for a way

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Speaker 1: to connect it all? Living an adventure he'd always dreamed of.

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Speaker 1: Rod was obviously driven by his family's safety and lifelong

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Speaker 1: obsession with geography and ancient cultures, But the truth was

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Speaker 1: outside of his battle with critics. Rod then shared that

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Speaker 1: he was in a battle for something else. Time he'd

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Speaker 1: been diagnosed with an aggressive type of brain cancer.

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Speaker 6: Wasn't long after that close call, ve close experience I

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Speaker 6: had had. I've had like prive heart attacks my hereditary thing,

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Speaker 6: and I'd plugged up again. And while I was in

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Speaker 6: the hospital and they brain tumor that I had was

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Speaker 6: was still there or you know, but to what degree

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Speaker 6: or how much longer I had to live because they

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Speaker 6: had when they diagnosed me with the brain tumor, it

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Speaker 6: was an attack that you know, there wasn't nothing that

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Speaker 6: they could do about it. They wanted to treat it,

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Speaker 6: treat the cancer, but I wouldn't let them because they

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Speaker 6: basically said it was pretty hopeless and I just don't.

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Speaker 6: I wanted to die peacefully and not in a hospital.

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Speaker 6: Smart long story short, the toumur's gone, like missing totally,

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Speaker 6: like wasn't even there. I have to either tie that

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Speaker 6: to to God healing me or that close encounter, you know,

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Speaker 6: with that blue being thing.

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Speaker 1: What would you say to skeptics, I.

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Speaker 6: Think humans in in in general, any of us, we're

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Speaker 6: all fear based. I mean, that's that's just that's what

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Speaker 6: a human being is. We're fear based. Some people, can

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Speaker 6: you know, there's things that push them past that. You know,

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Speaker 6: maybe it's concerned, maybe it's just you know, curiosity, there's

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Speaker 6: certain things. But there's some people that really that just

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Speaker 6: remain fear based. And those people are the ones that

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Speaker 6: usually that fear base leads them to denial. And I

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Speaker 6: mean I've learned that. You know, like when I take

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Speaker 6: a video, if it's a big ORB, I reference the

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Speaker 6: moon in their video. I do everything I can because

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Speaker 6: I know the skeptics are going to be strong. I

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Speaker 6: know that they're going to say that's not a NORB,

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Speaker 6: that's the moon. So I reference the moon and then

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Speaker 6: I show that word, and I try to make it

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Speaker 6: as clear undeniable proof as I can get.

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Speaker 1: Proof is a daunting word, which I was continually reminded of,

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Speaker 1: especially relating to UAPs, UFOs orbs, drones or whistleblowers. I

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Speaker 1: called the kit Carson County Sheriff's office to see if

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Speaker 1: there were recent sidings near the general location. Rod described me.

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Speaker 1: A representative for the sheriff's office stated that things seem quiet. However,

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Speaker 1: a farming family who lived nearby confirmed strange lights were

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Speaker 1: still being seen.

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Speaker 4: My name is Tammy Fogg, and I've lived in the

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Speaker 4: area for sixty seven years. I was born here except

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Speaker 4: when I went to college at k.

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Speaker 1: You met at the center of Rod's in her circle

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Speaker 1: was his sister, Tammy. She's a registered nurse and our

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Speaker 1: n administrator and Chase's drones with him.

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Speaker 7: Rod put me in this messenger group. Are you in

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Speaker 7: that group too?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's called drone Hunters. We got real careful on

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Speaker 4: who we added to that group because we're just there

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Speaker 4: to share information. We don't aren't necessarily in there for

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Speaker 4: somebody to come in with big criticism. It's there. You

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Speaker 4: can express your ideas freely in pictures if you would

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Speaker 4: like to. And if you needed help, if you were

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Speaker 4: out drone watching somewhere, you know, and you had a

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Speaker 4: flat tire or you thought you needed help taking some pictures,

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Speaker 4: you can put that on there, shoot your location and

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Speaker 4: so be there in a little bit so because my

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Speaker 4: brother will go look at some of those remote site

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Speaker 4: If you had a flat tire out there, or something

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Speaker 4: spooky happened, you'd be way out there.

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Speaker 1: The Drone Hunter messenger chain, which I finally made it into,

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Speaker 1: was a mix of shaky video posts cell phone photos

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Speaker 1: of blurry lights in the sky. In commentary on the

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Speaker 1: sightings and other current events, there was a definite right

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Speaker 1: leaning slant to the conversations. Sometimes folks were rasping for conclusions. However,

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Speaker 1: I could tell there was a common goal to see

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Speaker 1: cancers instead of spreading unvalidated theories.

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Speaker 4: We've studied hard on like the starlink systems. We have

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Speaker 4: flight radar loaded in our phones so that we don't

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Speaker 4: accidentally pick up an aircraft, you know, and think that

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Speaker 4: it's a drone. I mean, we're genuinely concerned about what's

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Speaker 4: up there.

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Speaker 7: Rod kind of told me that he had like a

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Speaker 7: close encounter and he had been diagnosed with cancer and

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Speaker 7: he said it wasn't looking good. He talked about that

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Speaker 7: with him at all.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, because he did have like a tumor and

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Speaker 4: it was getting progressively worse. He was like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to treat this, you know, it just is

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Speaker 4: what it is. He did have a heart attack, was

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Speaker 4: shipped out to Greeley. He has more than one stint

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Speaker 4: in his heart. They put another stent in and so

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Speaker 4: I said, Rod, while you're there, he had had that

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Speaker 4: droning encounter that he was talking about at that time.

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Speaker 4: He said, I said, have some check and do you

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Speaker 4: know that was totally gone. So can I explain that medically?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: I cannot.

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Speaker 1: Hearing a nurse's take on Rod's diagnosis added the layer

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Speaker 1: of authority to his mystifying story. Like Rod, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to know if Tammy saw the unknown objects communicating with

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Speaker 1: each other?

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Speaker 7: Have you experienced this before?

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Speaker 4: Truthfully, not so lunch, because not that just because I

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Speaker 4: usually get spooped and get the heck out of there.

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Speaker 4: But like at that ancient site up there, you know,

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Speaker 4: he can set up and they seem to be you know,

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Speaker 4: just they'll stay right there for a time that you know,

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Speaker 4: he can try lights and found and that type of thing.

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Speaker 4: But he goes there quite often. And there are a

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Speaker 4: couple older farmers out there that say they've been seeing

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Speaker 4: that stuff for a number of years.

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Speaker 1: Since Rod's observations were anything but normal, I've been burning

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Speaker 1: to ask Tammy how her drone hunting encounters compared to his.

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Speaker 1: She began telling me about a night in early twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: right after the objects first appeared in northwest Kansas.

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Speaker 4: So I was sent out down in a draw in

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Speaker 4: the middle of a field, felt very confident with where

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Speaker 4: I was at. I was in the car, had the

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Speaker 4: windows down, and it was getting like nine point thirty

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Speaker 4: twenty to ten maybe ten, and I thought, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to see enoughing tonight. I'm going on home,

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Speaker 4: and just about that time, down over the top into

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Speaker 4: that draw came three triangular, huge about the size of

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Speaker 4: a vehicle craft, but they did not look like anything

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Speaker 4: I had ever seen from this planet. I flipped the

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Speaker 4: lights on the car, and when I did that, it

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Speaker 4: appeared to startle them, because they started these these all

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Speaker 4: these kind of flashing lights. And I looked my head

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Speaker 4: out the window, went to take a picture, and the

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Speaker 4: stuff out of the one closest to me started coming out.

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Speaker 4: That was like the fog stuff. I inhaled it. It

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Speaker 4: was like I couldn't get my breath and burnt my eyes.

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Speaker 4: I reached down, started the car and took off in

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Speaker 4: the car up over the top of the thing. They

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Speaker 4: backed those things up and were started to come after

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Speaker 4: me as I was coming down the road at a

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Speaker 4: low like I mean, at a low level. Then I

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Speaker 4: was headed back for town and then they just zipped off.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, with you being a medical professional, did you think

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Speaker 7: he needed to go to the er and have you know,

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Speaker 7: have that checked out?

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Speaker 4: Or yes, I loved it, Yes you'd go to the R.

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Speaker 4: I did not go to the R but I felt

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Speaker 4: like I should have, because what in the blue blazes

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Speaker 4: was I going to tell him happened? They would have

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Speaker 4: thought I was nuttiers than alone. Do you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean? I did not go. Did I feel like

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Speaker 4: I should have? Yes? Did I come into the house

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Speaker 4: and take an albu or all breathing treatment, Yes? I did.

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Speaker 1: Chapter fourteen worked over time. The disconnect between local and

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Speaker 1: federal officials investigating the sidings only increased if these objects

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Speaker 1: were in fact breaking laws. The FAA or other agencies

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Speaker 1: I wasn't even aware of couldn't enforce regulations. The general

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Speaker 1: consensus seemed to be that we know there's something not

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Speaker 1: normal flying around up there, but we don't know what

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Speaker 1: to do about it. We're going to pretend it's not there.

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Speaker 1: These factors opened the door to conspiracy theories and outside

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Speaker 1: interpretations of the mystery, including one prominent news outlet publishing

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Speaker 1: that the encounters I and so many people experienced weren't real.

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Speaker 1: This viewpoint was built on the idea of mass hysteria.

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Speaker 1: Since I'd made a commitment to keep an open mind

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Speaker 1: and look into every angle of this story, it was

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Speaker 1: important to understand what, if any, facts fueled this perspective.

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Speaker 8: My name is Barry Markowsky. My position is Distinguished Professor

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Speaker 8: Emeritus at Universe City of South Carolina in sociology.

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Speaker 1: Barry Markowsky has a PhD from Stanford and he's one

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Speaker 1: of the nation's top experts on mass hysteria. What is

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Speaker 1: mass hysteria and how does hysteria develop around a particular event?

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Speaker 8: So, mass hysteria is it's a temporary phenomenon, it's spontaneous.

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Speaker 8: It involves spreading false beliefs within some population or group,

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Speaker 8: and those false beliefs typically lead to irrational thoughts and

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Speaker 8: irrational behavior, sometimes destructive behaviors. There could be physical manifestations,

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Speaker 8: people could get sick, or psychosomatic manifestations. And it often

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Speaker 8: develops around particular events when there's an awareness that other

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Speaker 8: people are experiencing the same thing or holding the same

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Speaker 8: beliefs or similar beliefs. That provides a kind of validation

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Speaker 8: that further reinforces the effect. Putting this into context, I've

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Speaker 8: watched a lot of UFO videos where you can hear

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Speaker 8: the people who are taking the video of the UFO.

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Speaker 8: You can hear them conversing on the audio track, and

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Speaker 8: they and the people around them are literally negotiating the

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Speaker 8: meaning of what they're seeing to listen to them, you

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Speaker 8: would think that this little light in the sky, which

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Speaker 8: is often all that it is, is the most extraordinary

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Speaker 8: thing they've ever seen. You're seeing in these or hearing

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Speaker 8: in these videos, this contagion effect, this amplification effect, happening

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Speaker 8: in real time. So again it's showing how, even more

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Speaker 8: than the final domenon itself up in the sky, people

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Speaker 8: are being influenced in their beliefs by the other people

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Speaker 8: around them, and they will often end up concluding that

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Speaker 8: they have seen an extraterrestrial visiting Earth or something really

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Speaker 8: extraordinary like that.

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Speaker 3: If someone saw what they thought was a drone in

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Speaker 3: the sky and they spoke with a separate group who

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Speaker 3: saw it and thought it was a plane, would that

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Speaker 3: person's interpretation of what they saw change.

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Speaker 8: So you're more likely to change your belief if you

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Speaker 8: find that a lot of people around you believe something

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Speaker 8: that you don't. You're more likely to change your belief

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Speaker 8: if the people who hold that alternative belief have some

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Speaker 8: kind of authority or status in your eyes, and you're

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Speaker 8: more likely to change your belief if they are socially

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Speaker 8: close to you than if they're socially distant. Another interesting

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Speaker 8: and related aspect of this is memory. Memory, it turns out,

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Speaker 8: is a really malleable thing, and even when you've experienced

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Speaker 8: something and feel that you understood what you saw, it's

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Speaker 8: possible that the influence of other people, the reinterpretations that

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Speaker 8: they provide you, cause you to think about what you

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Speaker 8: experienced in a different way, and your memory of it

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Speaker 8: can actually change as your brain is filling in gaps

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Speaker 8: or substituting bits of information.

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Speaker 1: I agreed memories could get blurred, but those memories I

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Speaker 1: documented were tied to strong emotions, and that was key

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Speaker 1: for me. Regardless of the finer details of an encounter,

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Speaker 1: people never forgot how the craft made them feel. There

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Speaker 1: was no doubt in my mind that even though the

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Speaker 1: sightings were fewer and farther between compared to when the

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Speaker 1: craft first arrived in late twenty nineteen, many folks in

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Speaker 1: the region continue to experience a strange phenomenon in the sky.

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Speaker 1: This unsettling realization kept me thinking about a conversation I'd

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Speaker 1: had with family friend and aviation expert Bill Bowerley.

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Speaker 9: Truthfully, yes, I still think it's it's government. Maybe they're

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Speaker 9: training for future kinds of threats. This is how we

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Speaker 9: find that threat. The technology is there. So if they're training,

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Speaker 9: if this is a training squadron and they come out

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Speaker 9: here to train, then okay, what are you training for?

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Speaker 9: That some kind of threat we're trying to stop, maybe

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Speaker 9: backpacked nuke from coming into the country. Well it got

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Speaker 9: into the country, maybe a dirty bomb, maybe this how

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Speaker 9: do we find it. Let's just go put five hours

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Speaker 9: of fuel on this airplane and just go see where

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Speaker 9: they land. It may be in the middle of a

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Speaker 9: isolated pasture somewhere with just a couple of trucks. It

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Speaker 9: could very well be on a fenced off remote former

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Speaker 9: ICBM silo that the military still has, because there's a

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Speaker 9: lot of those that don't have anything in them now.

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Speaker 9: So if the military was launching them, or somebody utilizing

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Speaker 9: military facilities, there's a good way to hide yourself.

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Speaker 1: It was apparent that I needed to find out if

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Speaker 1: there was any connection between nuclear missile sites in the

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Speaker 1: unidentified aircraft coming up on obscure invasion of the drones?

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Speaker 1: Do you know how many people used to live in here?

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Speaker 3: Like at one time four seven.

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Speaker 6: From Cheyenne Zeffie Warren.

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Speaker 3: When the Air Force was asked, they said, oh, we

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Speaker 3: don't know nothing.

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Speaker 6: Okay, with all the missile sites, they would have known it.

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Speaker 10: A couple of them broke off, had stopped over the

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Speaker 10: police station, and our local FAA said, and we don't

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Speaker 10: know anything about that. We don't show any scheduled flights.

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Speaker 10: We don't show anything on a radar, We don't show

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Speaker 10: anything in the air.

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Speaker 1: If you have any information surrounding the events detailed in

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Speaker 1: this podcast, or have your own similar account, please visit

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Speaker 1: our website at obscureum series dot com and share your story.

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Speaker 1: You'll also find exclusive behind the scenes content on the site.

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Speaker 1: To connect with us on social media, you can follow

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Speaker 1: at Obscureum, Underscore Series and at Gabe Lenners on all

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Speaker 1: social platforms. Obscure Them is produced by Imagine and Lenner's

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Speaker 1: Entertainment for iHeartMedia. This series is written, hosted, and produced

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Speaker 1: by Me Gabe Blinners. It's executive produced by Ron Howard,

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Speaker 1: Brian Grazer, Carl Welker, Nathan Kloke, Nicki Etour and Me.

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00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: Additional production by Jacob Plu. Music and sound effects courtesy

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Speaker 1: of Epidemic Sound. Brand management in digital design by Labyrinth Branco,

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Speaker 1: Video editing by Alex Simmi.

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Speaker 7: Kopenko.

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Speaker 1: This project was mixed and mastered by Jacob Plu. Special

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Speaker 1: thanks to Dan Bodansky, Josh Hiller, Keaton Starts, Bryson Keyes,

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Speaker 1: Ailey Birchfield, David Wasserman, Katrina Norvel in My Family. Obscurum

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Speaker 1: Invasion of the Drones is available on the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite A podcasts.

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