WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The disappearance of little Anna Waters 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.239 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought you by 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.760 the layer of dust on your cleaning supplies. Instead, it's 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.160 brought you by talk Space, the online therapy company that 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:14.440 let's you message a license therapist from anywhere at any time. 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.560 Can't imagine fitting another appointment into your life well With 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.960 talk Space, therapy is as easy as sending your therapist 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.639 a message. 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The grizzly case soon brings 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.240 Camille's own scars to the surface. Haild is the top 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.160 of the line detect the story by variety Watch new 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.280 episodes of Sharp Objects Sundays at nine and catch up 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:37.640 on HBO. Now. Thank you sorry, ye hey, guys, Welcome 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.520 to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I Am Devin, 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.679 joined as always by Joe and Steve, and today we're 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.280 going to talk about another mystery. It's a disappearance. I 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.960 guess I've been on a disappearance kick lately, like for 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.520 the last year. Is this like foreshadow and you're about 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.160 to disappear yourself? Possible? We are going to talk about 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:04.320 the appearance of Anna Waters, which happened a long time ago. 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:10.120 It was a long time ago. This was suggested by 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:16.520 Morgan listener, probably lots of other people too, but I 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:21.320 don't know. Anna disappeared on January sixteenth, nineteen seventy three. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:25.200 She was five years old at the time. Anna's family 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.600 history is kind of important to the story. So I 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:29.440 guess we're going to start there a little bit. And 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.240 it's kind of a big chunk of the understanding it. Yeah, 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:35.960 the theories and what all of the thoughts on it is. 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.079 So it makes sense. Yeah, So that's kind of where 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:39.880 we're going to start. So it's aid they're very relevant 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:44.160 to the story or depending maybe not relevant at all. Yeah, possible, Yeah, 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.840 but we think it probably is. Yeah, a mystery. Yeah, 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.240 Anna's mother Michaela Benedict. Is that how you pronounce her name? 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.560 Because it confuses me every time I look at it. 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.800 So I looked up a lot of different pronunciations of this. 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:02.080 A lot of them are Resilion and they're like michael 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:07.080 A La, and I'm I don't think it could be Michelle, 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.679 but I think it's Michaela. Okay, because I was really 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.959 confused every time I read enough, wait, crude. So we'll 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.840 go with that. Yeah, We're just gonna pick and go. 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:23.160 She met Anna's dad, George Waters, in college. George was 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.280 trying to he was studying to become a doctor, and 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.560 shortly after they were married, they moved to the San 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.920 Francisco area so that he could complete his residency. Also 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.400 part of this family was Michaela's two sons from a 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:39.760 previous maybe marriage, maybe just relationship. I don't really know, uh, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.640 the story behind that. I know they were both born 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.080 in Greece. I don't think I don't think she was 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.200 married to the man, so I think that George was 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.840 her first husband. That okay, So that's one of the 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:53.600 things that I was going to ask about, because I 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.120 read somewhere that George was her second husband and that 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.840 she was married when she met him. It's boss well, okay, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.480 I mean I don't know. I mean i'd never found 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.440 any clear and frankly, I didn't really look too far 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.440 into that because I don't think it actually pertains to 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.760 the story too terribly. You're probably right in probably I 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:17.040 just easily confused, and so I was. Unless the previous 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.839 husband was all embittered about you know, maybe I don't 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.400 think so. He was also in Greece, so somebody. Yeah, 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:30.520 they together had an a in eighteen sixty seven, which 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.000 was actually the same year that a man named George 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.160 Brody maybe came into their lives. I'm and I'm unclear 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:45.320 how George and George met. However, they became pretty instant friends. George, Yeah, 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.160 what's what I've been calling them? And did George did 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.840 George Brody ever come by the house and meet MICHAELA. 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.039 I believe, yes, it was a weird relationship. And we'll 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.560 dive a little bit more intil I've heard about the relationship. 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:00.760 But also for the sake of Claire Party, I'm going 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.360 to call George Waters George and George Brodie Brodie. You 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.560 don't want to say George the other George. It's gonna 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.640 get really confusing into this. This is like that book 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.280 that I read about a monkey when I was a kid. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.720 Was so confusing with the George all the time. Got 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.159 a coworker name whose name is also Joe, so he's 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.760 other Joe except for the instances when I am other. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.760 I want to just totally get above that and just 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.760 go with the last name in the first name. So 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.760 Brody was much older than George. Nobody really knows how 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.200 by how much. For certain from photos I've seen of them, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.320 I would guess that Brody was at least twenty years 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.960 older than George. Would you guys agree with that? Yeah? Yeah, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.400 there was definitely a generation between them. I was sick of. 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.760 It was actually a bigger gap. I think it probably 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:51.480 was to like about being generous too, I mean, to 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.680 both of them. I guess, you know, I don't know, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.359 it's nothing being friends with somebody's different ages in you. 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:01.280 There's not on the face of it. Their friendship was 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:05.000 really weird. You you'll see it as described as a 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.599 cult of personality often, but basically Brody just became the 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.120 number one most important thing to George and his life. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.680 Brody was super controlling and George was letting him influence 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.360 every single facet of his life. This was the This 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.480 was the seventies, though, and there was a lot of 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.200 that going on. People were looking for Gus, Yes, there was. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.359 That's exactly where I'm going is that there was a 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.080 lot of people who said, there's this other thing, and 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.839 these people are going to tell me how to do it, 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.039 and I will just do what they say. That's why 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.040 the cult phenomena was so big in the seventies as well. 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.600 You know, after the after the Manson murders, a lot 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.680 of actually famous celebrity types are furiously backpeddling away from 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.680 their relationship with Charlie Manson. A lot of glamorous Hollywood 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.359 types were really into Charlie. Yeah, but he wasn't the 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.359 only GurGur. There was a whole It was kind of 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.720 a social norm. Yeah. The trick with this one, though, 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.400 is that Brody only had this kind of relationship with George. 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:06.080 He it wasn't like he had a big following or anything. 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:10.760 He just had this one person. So it's a little Yeah, 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.520 it's a little different, although George at the same time, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.880 you know, fairness, he was having some metal issues and 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.720 so that might have you know, contributed something through this 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.840 weird relationship and we'll talk about that. Yeah. Shortly after 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:27.560 Anna was born, MICHAELA and George divorced, and the number 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.080 one reason you'll see cited for that was actually his 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.520 relationship with Brody. But they divorced, and then Brody and 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.840 George moved in together into like a really shady part 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:45.800 of San Francisco, de Yeah, and into the kind of 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.360 I think it was a pay by the month hotel 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.160 room even and it didn't it didn't even have a 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.920 bathroom in It was shared a bathroom down the hall. 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:58.280 And this is interesting to know because George was a working, 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.920 high paid physician at the time, and so he could 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.680 have easily afforded something better than that. It was probably 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.800 supporting stuff, you know, he was and I don't know 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:09.920 that he was necessarily a high paid physician, but he 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.360 was a well paid physician. I think that by saying 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.440 he's high paid, you infer that he's got a level 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.080 of wealth, and he probably actually did because he was 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.120 working part time at two jobs. The reason that I 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.280 say he was highly paid. Was because Michaela's book talks 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:30.080 about him being very well compensated. I never got that 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.240 impression from the stuff I read. But at the very 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.040 least he could have afforded a nicer place for them 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.600 to live. He was also totally financially supporting Brodie, but again, 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.560 they could have afforded a nicer place than this, for sure. Okay, okay, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.800 we'll just leave at that. Michaela later met a man 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.880 named Joseph Ford in nineteen seventy one and they got 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:58.720 married three yeah or two, it doesn't really matter. I 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:03.640 would have also divorced you. Frankly, yeah, definitely. Joseph was, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.560 by all reports of loving committed father to all of 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.439 Michaela's children. The family lived in half Moon Bay in California, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.280 which is on the coast of California, just south of 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.880 San Francisco. I've been there town. It's actually I've heard. Yeah, 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.240 if you go like started San Mateo on the Bay 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.679 and just go basically due west across the peninsula, you 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:25.839 wanted up at half Moon Bay. Yeah, I've heard, it's 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:30.480 really nice. Okay, So backstory done, yeah, yeah, back story done. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:35.520 On January six, Anna had been attending pre K that morning. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.520 I don't know if everywhere this is true, but in America, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.480 I believe most places you do half day pre k 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.840 pre kindergarten. Those who don't know what pre K is, 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.040 pre K was a little pre me. We didn't have 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.679 pre K when I was a kid. Yeah, people had 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.720 daycare for a while, and it is a scholastic program. 0:09:55.840 --> 0:10:00.280 Usually it was at a at the school that her others, 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.559 her older brothers were attending. Yeah. The funny The funny 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.439 thing is that is during the seventies, in the eighties, 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.280 I believe school districts ran pre K programs, and then 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.160 of course as funding began to dry up, that was 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.120 shifted to other programs, sort of like Headstart was one. 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.760 And now I don't know anybody that has a kid 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:21.920 in pregy. I'm sure that they're putting their kid in 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.240 some kind of pre kidergarten program, but I don't actually 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.840 know how those are operating anymore, just because the funding 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.240 in this country, by state, even it's just city, even 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.600 it's just so I was, I mean, I was in 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.440 pre K when it was around still run through Portland 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.839 Public when I was in school here, So it was 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:44.720 a couple of moons ago ken yesterday anyway. Anyway, anyway, 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.680 so on a road the bus home, I've seen it 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.520 reported as at noon, but I've also seen it reported 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.000 that she got home at one, And I cannot imagine 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.200 that it was an hour long bus ride from her 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.720 pre kindergarten class to her home, so I'm not really 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.880 sure it was mid day. They kind of lived in 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.360 the sticks up that little road, but it wouldn't have 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.840 taken an hour. You can't put a four year old 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.679 on a bus for an hour. Have you ever been 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:11.680 stuck behind a school of us? I could see it 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.400 taking an hour easily. Anyway. I'm sure I grew up 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.160 in the boonies, you can, yeah, alright, fine enough. I've 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.599 seen reporting that some family friends dropped by for a 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:26.959 visit earlier that I don't know. It was the seventies. 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:31.640 I guess likely adult family friends. So all the friends 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.520 chatted with her mother and stepfather. Anna went to her room, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.360 changed her clothes, and if you really care to see 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.840 what she was wearing, you can go find a description 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.440 of it. And she went outside to play. It was 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.760 a rainy day, but not so unpleasant that a child 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:51.200 couldn't enjoy themselves. Around one thirty on A returned inside 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.520 to hang up her coat, which I guess was too warm, 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.680 or maybe it had stopped raining, or I don't really 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.360 know why. If you've ever warned a raincoat when it's 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.440 even slightly warm outside, I could see why she wouldn't know, 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.800 especially those old grubbery ones. Oh yeah, you get his 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.679 wet wearing the things did you do without them? Yeah? 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:11.840 Then she well, she went right back outside after she 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.200 returned her coat inside, and then at about to her 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.599 mom said that she had heard on a singing to 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:26.480 the cats outside about for that campaign. At two fifteen, 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.120 she said she didn't hear on out there anymore. But 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.160 they did have a family dog that was prone to 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:37.360 barking at any kind of intrusion of anybody who it 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.160 didn't know what it was. It was a younger dog. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.800 It was more of a puppy dog. Oh, excitedly barking 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.320 instead of warning barking, I think either, but definitely reacting 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.000 to any presence other than the ones that it was 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.079 used to. And the reason that I mentioned that is 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.880 because it wasn't a family dog that had been left 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:57.679 over from her marriage to George. Did not know George right, theoretically, 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.160 I mean theoretically, so since you didn't hear the dog barking, 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.920 she just didn't really think anything of her not being 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.600 able to hear on a singing anymore. So. At t twenty, 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.160 Michaela went to call on A to come inside, but 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.240 didn't see her in the backyard anymore. So at that point, 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:18.320 Joseph and Michaela started to search for Anna, but at 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.880 about two five they still hadn't found any sign of her, 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.360 and they just called the cops. Which is that point 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.520 terrible because I mean a lot of parents know this 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.400 is that you your kid disappears, you know, from your 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.840 view and from earshot, and you start freaking out and 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.040 yelling just to find the kid looking at you like what, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.440 I followed a bug? It's okay, Like that's what people 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.600 just expect to be the case. So I can imagine 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.840 how they'd be like, oh, god, she followed a cat 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:50.200 again or something. Yeah, and five minutes later you're like, oh, no, 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.480 maybe she didn't. Yeah, so yeah, well looking but you know, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.400 and by the way, this is a kind of a 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.080 rural area. It's nice also, it's a it's a nice 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:04.320 quiet area that not a lot of people who were unfamiliar, 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.040 who didn't just live in the area, drove through or 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.240 we're in at all. And also, by the way, no 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.000 scary critters living there. I mean, there's no like bears 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.800 or mountain lions, not really as far as we know. 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:18.440 One of the first things that the police did was 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.400 to ring the tsunami siren, which you know, in other 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.000 places is called a tornado siren or a bomb drill 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.960 or whatever, you know, a siren that's meant to notify people. 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.720 I So I read this as well, and I'd also 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.520 read that the cop who showed up rang the siren 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.680 on his car. Okay, Now that makes more sense to 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:45.400 me because I would think that ringing the local that's 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:50.920 kind of a big step to freak the entire community, 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.360 like it just that seems above and beyond. Have you 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.760 lived in a place where those sirens are used frequently? 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.240 I've been place the Okay, So there are a lot 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.880 of there's a very big difference between sounding the tsunami 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.280 warning like one time, you know, as a local, having 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.360 lived in a place where they do that, what actual 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.120 warning sirens sounds like because they just turn it on 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:21.080 and it goes forever versus versus just you know, having 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:25.760 a go down and then people would just be like 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:30.280 what I mean whatever, Um, yeah, I agree, it is 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.840 totally possible that actually what you know it actually happened. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:39.120 Was it just seemed an extreme step, That's all I'm getting. Yeah, 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.560 I mean it was a smaller community, so a five 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.600 year old wandering away, they just kind of I think 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.520 they really did think she had just wandered away and 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.320 if they could just raise a sirens, she would come back. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.720 And I'm trying to think about the irony though, that 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.920 if they actually blasted this tsunami alert and everything, and 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:58.880 like they'll delect for this little to save this a 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.960 little five year old girl, and time like two or 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.520 three other five year old kids get like trampled by 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.040 all the people evacuating. This is why you don't just 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.080 randomly layer those horns were off topic already total, that's 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:15.720 okay anyway, Uh, if you haven't already guessed, whatever siren 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:22.520 was sounded did not bring on a running so they 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.080 we haven't mentioned this yet, but there was a what's 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.200 referred to as a creek that was running along the 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.920 back edge of their property. I don't know it was 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.280 it sounds like it was a really strong creek at 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.240 that time. Yeah, but they all that they decided that 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.160 that seemed like a thing that was really dangerous, and 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.440 they decided to converge their search on the creek. Well, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.120 if this is January, you know that's the middle of winter. 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.560 I grew up next to a teeny tiny little creek 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.160 that in January was torrent So I can I mean 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.360 and what I know, in a summertime creek was something 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.919 that I could take three big steps and cross. In 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.119 the wintertime, I would never even dare to go near it. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.040 So I can see why they would say if it's 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.000 that kind of scenario, I can see why they would 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.320 immediately like, oh, yeah, that's that's a problem. Yeah, it 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:21.560 was in a flooding stage at that time, and Michaela 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.920 has said time and time again that she always felt 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.359 like that creek was a danger to her family. But 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.399 you know, it was a nice house. I A lot 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:32.879 of people want to have would love to have a 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.560 creek running through their property. I think it was kind 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.560 of a love hate relationship with that creek for her, 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.680 where she thought, I really like having it running through 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.720 my property, but also I have a five year old 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.760 and when it floods, she could easily fallen and drowned. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.600 And that seems to be exactly what they thought had 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:54.320 actually happened to an unsable totally understandable. Yeah, I agree. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.360 They actually thought it was so strong that her bought 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.520 she could have drowned and washed away, not just drowned. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.679 It was only like two or three miles to the 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:07.760 ocean and washed down the property. Yeah, exactly. Although it 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.919 kind of snakes around a little bit, goes under highway 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.880 once through a culvert, not a bridge, so she would 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.840 have probably gotten a hung up somewhere, right, And that 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.640 was the hope. They actually did send divers down. Yeah. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.320 And also by the way it dumps out onto a beach, 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.560 it doesn't just you know, flow out of a cliff 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.399 into the aggression rights. Yeah, her body would likely have 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.760 been found had this happened, But I think so again, 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.520 that's a little more theories. Like I said, divers were 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.840 sent down, so it was that's how deep it was 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.679 that you'd have diverse code down into this creek. They 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.480 were hanging under ropes, yeah, I would guess, But they 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.600 didn't find anything, which was kind of a bumber. They 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.159 and actually I've seen it, said that this was one 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.760 of the most extensive searches that's ever happened in California Coast, 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.720 or something like that. Some neighbors came forward a couple 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.520 of days later and said that they had actually seen 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:02.000 a white paneled truck with two men, one much younger 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:06.480 than the other, drive along and normally very otherwise very 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.520 quiet road. Yeah, that nobody ever really drove on except 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.480 for locals. Yeah, if you look at it on the 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.240 on the area, it's just it's not. It's not a 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.760 throwaway from one place to another. It goes up and 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.160 it sort of dead ends into another snaky little road 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.520 that snakes off in a different direction. It's not a 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.640 short cut between any two places at all. It's not. 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.840 It's also not it's not the kind of place you 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:33.399 just kind of get lost going. I also, I have 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:34.920 a problem with this. You know, it was a couple 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.159 of days later. They didn't really know exactly what time 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.520 they saw this truck, you know, if it was indeed 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.639 that afternoon, if it was much later that afternoon, if 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.879 it was earlier that morning, if it was even early 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.639 on that day, maybe not even the same day, were 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.399 they sure it was the same day. I don't, I 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.360 don't know. Yeah. And then the other part of that 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:59.760 was they always say two men, one was much older 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.640 than the other. But I've never ever seen somebody say 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.720 like one of them was twenty and the other was sixty. 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:11.000 It's always just been like, and we know how freaking 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.400 subjective that is me today sitting in a truck next 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:16.800 to me about two months ago with the full on beard. 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:21.480 There one of the massive age difference in appearance, and 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.520 you could literally have one guy with a beard and 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.400 one guy without and they're the same age, and you'd 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.720 have no idea, especially in a moving vehicle. Yeah, that 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.000 these kind of details, that's uh, you know, people are grasping. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:35.480 But it looks to me like this is a classic 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:41.159 plumber apprentice situation. It was Mario and Luigia. They're the 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.440 same age. Well I guess they're not. They're brothers. They're 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.840 close to the the same age. Yeah, but that that mustache 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.960 makes Mario looks so much older than Luigi. And it 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:54.760 turns out they also had different different fathers, so that helps. Uh, 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.360 there's more to this story, but I kind of want 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.200 to dig into that as we dig into theory. Reason 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:05.040 is that okay with you guys, So I guess we'll 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:09.080 talk about theories. But first let's take a quick break. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.240 If an ogre with a club shows up at your house, 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.280 you're in big trouble because, for one, I didn't know 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.120 ogres were real, And if they are, then that means 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:22.879 we live in a fantasy land and there's magic and 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:24.560 there's all these other crazy things and oh my god, 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:26.600 it's really scary to think about. Don't think about that 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:30.200 stuff at all. But in the real world there are 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.040 actual scary things, and they don't have to be so scary, 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.280 which is why I'm a big fan of simply Safe 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:38.879 home security. Simply Safe is just always ready for anything 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.000 to gets thrown at it. If a storm takes act 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:43.480 your power, Simply Safe as ready. If an intruder cut 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.360 your phone line, they're ready. Say that intruder destroys your 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.800 key bad or your siren, simply Safe will still get 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.400 you the help you need. And here's what I love 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.280 about it. Maybe it's overkilled. Maybe you don't really need 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.960 to be ready for every worst case scenario. Personally, I 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.240 kind of in because I spect the apocalypse. But I'm 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.240 weird that way. But the great thing is simply Safe 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.959 is just always ready, just in case, and that's what 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.320 makes it so great. And while it should cost an 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.360 arm and a leg, it doesn't. And that's because they're 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:19.000 good people. They charge which fair, that's right. A month, 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.919 that's all, no contracts, no hidden fees. I recommend simply 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.480 Safe to everyone I know, and you've got to check 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.919 it out. So go to simply safe dot com slash sideways. 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:33.040 That's simply safe dot com slash sideways. And really, if 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:37.040 there's an ogre with a club, just just run away. 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:46.400 We're back. So theory number one is a creek, highly unlikely, 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:48.520 but I'm gonna I'll have it on here anyway. I guess, 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.520 like I said, the divers found nothing. There has been 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:56.199 official journalistic reporting that says that, yes, this is what 0:22:56.280 --> 0:23:01.840 happened to her. Realistically, there is no evidence for against this. Yeah, well, 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.000