WEBVTT - Big Stories of 2023: The Microsoft-Activision Blizzard Deal

0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:12.640
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there,

0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.160
<v Speaker 1>and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland.

0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.959
<v Speaker 1>I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and How the

0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.760
<v Speaker 1>tech are you? So as twenty twenty three winds down,

0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:24.919
<v Speaker 1>we're looking back on some of the big tech stories

0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.320
<v Speaker 1>that happened this year. I mentioned this one a few times,

0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:30.320
<v Speaker 1>but I figured it would be better to do a

0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:35.640
<v Speaker 1>full look back on Microsoft's acquisition of Activision Blizzard, which

0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.839
<v Speaker 1>actually obviously stretches back more than a year. It was

0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:42.160
<v Speaker 1>never a guaranteed deal and there was a significant amount

0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.360
<v Speaker 1>of opposition to it all around the world. So today

0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.360
<v Speaker 1>we're going to look at how the story began and

0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.960
<v Speaker 1>how it unfolded, as well as we'll speculate a little

0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.120
<v Speaker 1>bit about the future now that the two companies have

0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.640
<v Speaker 1>put ink to paper. Now, let's start off with background

0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:00.040
<v Speaker 1>on Activision Blizzard. The company traces its history to the

0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.959
<v Speaker 1>earliest days of home video game markets. Activision launched out

0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.840
<v Speaker 1>of Atari when a group of folks decided that it

0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.240
<v Speaker 1>might be nice to receive credit and royalties for their work,

0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.520
<v Speaker 1>rather than all that sweet cash and credit going to

0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:19.720
<v Speaker 1>the company itself. So Activision made some real bangers like Pitfall,

0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.200
<v Speaker 1>which if you're old like I am, you might remember

0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:28.080
<v Speaker 1>fondly compared to more recent games. Of course, it's primitive,

0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:33.000
<v Speaker 1>but trust me, at the time, Pitfall was amazing. Skip

0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.639
<v Speaker 1>ahead to nineteen ninety one and a guy named Bobby

0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Kodik would, along with some financial partners, by a significant

0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.480
<v Speaker 1>amount of stock in Activision. He would later become the

0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.760
<v Speaker 1>CEO of the company. That same year, the company that

0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.040
<v Speaker 1>would become Blizzard would form. The original name for a

0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Blizzard was Silicon and Synapse when it was launched in

0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.640
<v Speaker 1>ninety one, but it took the name Blizzard in ninety four,

0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:02.200
<v Speaker 1>and Blizzard also published some real bangers in video and

0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.600
<v Speaker 1>computer games. It's the company behind Warcraft, which was a

0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:10.720
<v Speaker 1>huge hit in the real time strategy community. They produced Diablo,

0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.960
<v Speaker 1>which was a huge hit among the how many times

0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.880
<v Speaker 1>can I click my mouse button in a row? Community,

0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:20.720
<v Speaker 1>and it launched World of Warcraft, the I Will Never

0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:24.359
<v Speaker 1>see the light of day again community, among many others.

0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.960
<v Speaker 1>By the two thousands, Activision was creating or publishing genre

0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:34.840
<v Speaker 1>defining franchises like Call of Duty and Guitar Hero. Blizzard's

0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.800
<v Speaker 1>game StarCraft would become a cornerstone of esports. Blizzard also

0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.359
<v Speaker 1>changed hands multiple times in the early two thousands, ending

0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.920
<v Speaker 1>up with a company called Vivendi Games out of France.

0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Activision merged with Vivendi in two thousand and eight and

0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the new company was called Activision Blizzard and Bobby Kotik

0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:59.520
<v Speaker 1>became CEO of this newly merged company. Activision Blizzard continued

0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.000
<v Speaker 1>to develop, up and publish successful games and franchises. It

0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:07.560
<v Speaker 1>became one of the largest video game companies in the world. Now,

0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:12.320
<v Speaker 1>let us switch gears to talk about Microsoft. Now, obviously

0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft has had a really long history as well. I

0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.320
<v Speaker 1>think it's safe to say that the company is best

0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.760
<v Speaker 1>known for the Windows operating system. It's also the company

0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.960
<v Speaker 1>behind the Office suite of productivity software like Word and Excel.

0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh and it has a long history of Shenanigan's ranging

0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.639
<v Speaker 1>from misleading business deals which go all the way back

0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.200
<v Speaker 1>to the earliest days of the company, with Bill Gates

0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.760
<v Speaker 1>pulling a fast one on rivals, to a legal case

0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.520
<v Speaker 1>that very nearly forced Microsoft to break up into smaller companies,

0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.480
<v Speaker 1>but a subsequent judge in the US would overrule that

0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.760
<v Speaker 1>decision later on. Microsoft has been a big part of

0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.520
<v Speaker 1>gaming for a really long time as well. The first

0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.840
<v Speaker 1>edition of Microsoft Flight Simulator launched in nineteen eighty six,

0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.440
<v Speaker 1>but this title was actually built on an older simulator

0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.840
<v Speaker 1>that originally came out in nineteen seventy seven. Microsoft waded

0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.480
<v Speaker 1>into the video game console wars in two thousand and

0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:12.560
<v Speaker 1>one with the launch of the original Xbox console. The

0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Xbox three sixty would follow in two thousand and five,

0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.680
<v Speaker 1>and then Xbox One would come out in twenty thirteen.

0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:24.320
<v Speaker 1>In twenty fourteen, Microsoft acquired Mojang Studios, the company behind

0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:29.719
<v Speaker 1>the insanely popular title Minecraft, and in twenty twenty, Microsoft

0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.360
<v Speaker 1>launched the most recent version of the Xbox. The Series

0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.160
<v Speaker 1>X is the flagship. There's also the Series S. In

0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.760
<v Speaker 1>recent years, Microsoft has focused more on video games as

0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.880
<v Speaker 1>its business model has shifted quite a bit so in

0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.719
<v Speaker 1>years past, new versions of Windows and updates to the

0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Office Suite where the flagship products for the company. That's

0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.800
<v Speaker 1>mainly what they focused their sales on, but the revenue

0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.960
<v Speaker 1>strategy has changed a bit. It focuses more on subscrib

0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.880
<v Speaker 1>options than product sales, and they also have other services

0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.600
<v Speaker 1>that they make money from, like cloud computing. Video games

0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.440
<v Speaker 1>and consoles are one of the product lines that are

0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.599
<v Speaker 1>still going strong in Microsoft, though there are also subscription

0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.120
<v Speaker 1>elements to those as well, and Microsoft faces a couple

0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:22.640
<v Speaker 1>of heavy hitters in the video game industry, namely Sony

0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.800
<v Speaker 1>and to a lesser extent, Nintendo, but Sony is the

0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.360
<v Speaker 1>real rival to Microsoft's total domination of the home video

0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:36.200
<v Speaker 1>game market. In twenty twenty one, a scandal erupted at

0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Activision Blizzard. Now, to be clear, the problem that was

0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.400
<v Speaker 1>the focus of the scandal had been in place for

0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.720
<v Speaker 1>a really long time, but in twenty twenty one it's

0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.720
<v Speaker 1>when it all sort of became public dirty laundry. Multiple

0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.520
<v Speaker 1>parties came forward and accused the company of allowing a

0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:58.599
<v Speaker 1>toxic environment to flourish. At Activision Blizzard. There were allegations,

0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:03.120
<v Speaker 1>like serious allegations of stuff like sexual harassment cases, including

0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.080
<v Speaker 1>at least a couple that were really more bordering on

0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:10.680
<v Speaker 1>sexual assault cases, and a lot of the stories ended

0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.200
<v Speaker 1>up being the same where employees were told that they

0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.800
<v Speaker 1>had to settle the matter internally within the company and

0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.279
<v Speaker 1>that human resources was supposed to be the first and

0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:25.640
<v Speaker 1>really only resort. Meanwhile, that department was allegedly burying these matters,

0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.760
<v Speaker 1>so that they wouldn't go any further. There were other

0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.480
<v Speaker 1>serious allegations as well, claiming the company discriminated against women,

0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:34.880
<v Speaker 1>and that it violated the law in how the company

0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.960
<v Speaker 1>treated pregnant women, and that it was also guilty of

0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.320
<v Speaker 1>retaliating against employees who brought issues up, another thing that

0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:47.560
<v Speaker 1>is against the law. The accusations also said that Bobby Kotik,

0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.640
<v Speaker 1>the CEO of the company, was fully aware of the

0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.400
<v Speaker 1>situation and that he did nothing about it, or worse,

0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.000
<v Speaker 1>not that he did nothing, but that he also faced accusations.

0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 1>They specifically withheld in from the board of directors. There

0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.360
<v Speaker 1>were folks calling for Kodek's resignation, a call that CODEC

0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:12.440
<v Speaker 1>pointedly ignored. Not at the time, very few people knew

0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.760
<v Speaker 1>what was going on behind the scenes, but this was

0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:19.400
<v Speaker 1>when Microsoft was in early negotiations considering an acquisition of

0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.080
<v Speaker 1>the company, and it wasn't public knowledge yet. A big

0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.880
<v Speaker 1>move like that requires stability in both companies that are

0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.120
<v Speaker 1>part of a merger, and while a change in leadership

0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.080
<v Speaker 1>might have been appropriate considering the accusations involved over at

0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Activision Blizzard, it would also make the acquisition process more complicated,

0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:43.320
<v Speaker 1>and apparently business wins out over matters of toxicity and

0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.320
<v Speaker 1>abuse of employees. So Kdek stayed put, and various employees

0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:53.480
<v Speaker 1>in US agencies filed lawsuits against Activision Blizzard. The company

0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.080
<v Speaker 1>actually settled one of those lawsuits out of court in

0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.280
<v Speaker 1>September twenty twenty one. It agreed to settle a similar

0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:05.720
<v Speaker 1>lawsuit just this year, after Microsoft had already completed the acquisition.

0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.760
<v Speaker 1>There's a dark legacy of sexual discrimination that Activision Blizzard

0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.240
<v Speaker 1>must overcome, and there are different camps that view the

0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.960
<v Speaker 1>acquisition in very different ways with regard to that. There

0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.800
<v Speaker 1>are some who worry that with Microsoft acquiring Activision Blizzard,

0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the new parent company is just going to sweep everything

0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.400
<v Speaker 1>under the rug and walk away and make that just

0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.319
<v Speaker 1>a matter of the past, and no one will ever

0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:37.320
<v Speaker 1>see any justice from the various indignities and worse that

0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:42.480
<v Speaker 1>they experienced under Activision Blizzard. The other camp hopes that Microsoft,

0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.840
<v Speaker 1>by taking charge, will actually address these things in a

0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:50.600
<v Speaker 1>way that is accountable and will end up seeing justice

0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:54.679
<v Speaker 1>done for the people who were negatively impacted by Activision

0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Blizzard's environment, and that perhaps Microsoft will clean house as

0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.240
<v Speaker 1>part of the process. Some of that has actually come

0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.920
<v Speaker 1>to pass, as we have seen some changes in executive

0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.679
<v Speaker 1>leadership in recent days, but we'll get back to that.

0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:15.480
<v Speaker 1>So on January eighteenth, twenty twenty two, Microsoft announced its

0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.560
<v Speaker 1>intention to acquire Activision Blizzard. The transaction was to be

0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.600
<v Speaker 1>all in cash nearly sixty nine billion, with a b

0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.600
<v Speaker 1>dollars worth of cash, which is a whole lot of cash.

0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.280
<v Speaker 1>According to the press release that Microsoft was behind, this

0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.120
<v Speaker 1>would put Microsoft in third place among video game companies,

0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.440
<v Speaker 1>at least by revenue. They said that the Chinese company

0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Tencent was in number one and the Japanese giant Sony

0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:46.800
<v Speaker 1>was in place number two, and I suspect Microsoft listed

0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:51.079
<v Speaker 1>Sony this way, acknowledging it as a larger video game company,

0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.360
<v Speaker 1>because it was a strategic move. I'm pretty sure that

0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft and Activision Blizzard knew that this merger was going

0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.480
<v Speaker 1>to face scrutine all around the world, and it would

0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.839
<v Speaker 1>mean two very powerful companies in the video game space

0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.600
<v Speaker 1>would consolidate, and that could be viewed as a threat

0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.960
<v Speaker 1>to competition in the overall industry. So they end up

0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.000
<v Speaker 1>pointing out, hey, even if we're together, Sony is still

0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.400
<v Speaker 1>bigger than we are. It was kind of a strategic

0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.560
<v Speaker 1>way of saying we're not a threat to competition. Look,

0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.480
<v Speaker 1>we still won't be as big as Sony or Tencent.

0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.079
<v Speaker 1>But as it turns out, that scrutiny would exactly follow

0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.520
<v Speaker 1>it in the way that Microsoft anticipated, and Sony would

0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.319
<v Speaker 1>play a very large heart of it. I'll talk more

0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.840
<v Speaker 1>about this, but first let's take a quick break to

0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:50.080
<v Speaker 1>thank our sponsors. All Right, we're back. I had talked

0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:54.680
<v Speaker 1>about how Microsoft was trying to kind of pregame by saying, hey,

0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.840
<v Speaker 1>even when we're together, we're gonna just be in third place,

0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.040
<v Speaker 1>And they're positioning it in a way where they're like, hey, yay,

0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.480
<v Speaker 1>we're all the way moving up to third place. But

0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.320
<v Speaker 1>it was kind of a sly way of saying, there's

0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.160
<v Speaker 1>still two companies that are bigger than us, even given

0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:14.680
<v Speaker 1>this this merger. The situation also explained why Bobby Kodick

0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.120
<v Speaker 1>was adamant with regard to staying in charge at Activision Blizzard.

0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Before it looked like he was just doubling down as

0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.800
<v Speaker 1>a leader of a company that had a callous attitude

0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:31.040
<v Speaker 1>toward employees, specifically employees who were also women. But now

0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.480
<v Speaker 1>the complication of this massive business deal put things into

0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.679
<v Speaker 1>a new perspective, people said, Aha, this is why Bobby

0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Kodick refuses to step down. It's not that he really

0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.240
<v Speaker 1>thinks he's in the right here, but because there's this massive,

0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 1>sixty nine billion dollar deal going on and he doesn't

0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.320
<v Speaker 1>want to mess it up by stepping down and having

0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.600
<v Speaker 1>someone else take charge. So it got very cynical for

0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.880
<v Speaker 1>good reason. It didn't take long for folks to screw

0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.239
<v Speaker 1>the deal and for people to start raising their concerns.

0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.160
<v Speaker 1>In fact, in April twenty twenty two, several US senators

0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.360
<v Speaker 1>wrote a letter to the Federal Trade Commission, or FTC

0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.160
<v Speaker 1>about this proposed merger, and they cited worries about consolidation

0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.520
<v Speaker 1>in the tech industry in general, which does make sense

0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.880
<v Speaker 1>because there is a very small collection of very large

0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.360
<v Speaker 1>companies that dominate the tech space here in the United States,

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.000
<v Speaker 1>and Microsoft is one of them already, and their move

0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.280
<v Speaker 1>appeared to be in alignment with concentrating even more power

0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.360
<v Speaker 1>within that small group of companies. The senators also reference

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the ongoing investigations and litigations surrounding Activision Blizzard. They were

0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.440
<v Speaker 1>among those who were worried that a merger could mean

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.320
<v Speaker 1>that employees who had been affected by the activities of

0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.439
<v Speaker 1>Activision Blizzard might find themselves without means to have their

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 1>issues addressed in the wake of a merger, like how

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.440
<v Speaker 1>can they see justice if there's a new boss in

0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:04.680
<v Speaker 1>charge in the just essentially say upslates wipe clean. But

0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>the real opposition to the deal, I would argue came

0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:12.160
<v Speaker 1>from overseas. Specifically in the United Kingdom. The Competitions and

0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Markets Authority or CMA launched an investigation into the deal

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 1>out of concern that it would lead to significant decrease

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.320
<v Speaker 1>in competition in video games. There were worries that Microsoft

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:29.240
<v Speaker 1>would reserve Activision Blizzard titles to Microsoft exclusive platforms like

0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:34.400
<v Speaker 1>Xbox consoles and Windows based PCs, that Microsoft would deny

0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.720
<v Speaker 1>companies like Sony and Nintendo from getting access to really

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 1>hugely popular video game franchises, and that this would constitute

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:49.240
<v Speaker 1>anti competitive practices. Essentially, they were worried about Microsoft locking

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.839
<v Speaker 1>all of these popular video game titles to an exclusivity

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 1>deal with itself. Microsoft repeatedly committed to giving its competitors

0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 1>access to those pop titles. Time and again, a Microsoft

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.120
<v Speaker 1>representative would refute the concerns, and this got to a

0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 1>point where Microsoft agreed to sign to ten year commitments

0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.640
<v Speaker 1>that would cement that Microsoft would not lock games like

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>the Call of Duty franchise behind an exclusive arrangement. It

0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.000
<v Speaker 1>turned out that Sony representatives had been raising concerns with

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.120
<v Speaker 1>regulators about this very thing. That Sony had been arguing

0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft and Activision Blizzard merging together would cause direct harm

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:37.200
<v Speaker 1>to companies like Sony and Nintendo, and ultimately, they argued consumers.

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Sony reps also said that Microsoft would squeak around guarantees right. Oh, sure,

0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 1>they'll release the game, but they'll make sure that the

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft version of the game has more features and more

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 1>content in it, and that the version that gets released

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 1>to platforms like PlayStation or Nintendo consoles will be stripped

0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 1>down and inferior. Maybe they'll have a content, maybe it'll

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 1>be lower fidelity, something along those lines, maybe it'll have

0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:09.160
<v Speaker 1>performance issues. By the way, Sony locking stuff behind exclusive

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 1>content for themselves is something that they have done a

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.600
<v Speaker 1>lot of, so you could argue they knew a lot

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.960
<v Speaker 1>about this kind of idea because they themselves had sort

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 1>of perfected it. But no matter, I think the concern

0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.280
<v Speaker 1>was a legitimate one, even if Sony itself had been

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:29.360
<v Speaker 1>guilty of doing the same thing to other platforms. Phil Spencer,

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 1>the head of the Xbox division over at Microsoft, ultimately

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.160
<v Speaker 1>made a public statement that said the company would release

0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Call of Duty titles to PlayStation for as long as

0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 1>there's a PlayStation to release titles too. Essentially said, we're

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.000
<v Speaker 1>never going to get out of the business of creating

0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 1>video games for other platforms. It doesn't make sense because

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 1>while we could dominate the market and be anti competitive,

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 1>there's more money to be made by making titles for

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 1>other platforms. That's that's what we want to do, ultimately,

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 1>is make more money, not have some sort of, you know,

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:11.240
<v Speaker 1>de facto dominance in the market. This was after more

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>than a year of back and forth in various regulatory arenas.

0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.440
<v Speaker 1>So not only did the two companies face stern opposition

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.000
<v Speaker 1>in the UK, here in the United States things were

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.920
<v Speaker 1>getting thorny as well. The Federal Trade Commission announced it

0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 1>was opposed to the deal. In fact, the FTC sued

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft to stop the deal from happening. Again. The concern

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.080
<v Speaker 1>was that the deal marked a decrease in competition in

0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.360
<v Speaker 1>the market and that it would give Microsoft an unfair

0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>advantage over other companies. And again this is something that

0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft has a well earned reputation of doing in the past,

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.880
<v Speaker 1>So it's not like Microsoft is some innocent babe in

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 1>the woods. The company has been found guilty of engaging

0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 1>in anti competitive practices. So in some ways you can

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 1>look at this as the FTC saying, ah, you're back

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.720
<v Speaker 1>up to year old tricks again Microsoft. By early twenty

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty three, the European Union had also jumped into this mess,

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 1>and regulators in the EU said that they too were

0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.920
<v Speaker 1>concerned about the deal. At this point, things were starting

0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 1>to look pretty uncertain. Microsoft and Activision Blizzard were facing

0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:27.160
<v Speaker 1>critical scrutiny in the UK, the EU, and the US.

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 1>That's a lot of initials. The deal was supposed to

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.360
<v Speaker 1>close in the summer of twenty twenty three, but at

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.879
<v Speaker 1>this point that seemed like that was going to be

0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 1>wishful thinking. In fact, the deal itself was by far

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 1>not a guarantee. There were serious doubts coming up. For

0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.760
<v Speaker 1>a few short weeks, things actually started to look up

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:53.720
<v Speaker 1>for Microsoft and Activision Blizzard because the CMA, potentially the

0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.119
<v Speaker 1>harshest critic of all the regulators. Arguably the FTC wins

0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.360
<v Speaker 1>out in the end, but the CMA had serious concerns

0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.000
<v Speaker 1>about this deal, but in March of twenty twenty three,

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:09.040
<v Speaker 1>CMA said, you know what, we're not as concerned about

0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.480
<v Speaker 1>this whole thing as we used to be. They essentially

0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 1>said they were no longer concerned on March twenty fourth,

0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:20.640
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three. However, on April twenty sixth, twenty twenty three,

0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.080
<v Speaker 1>a month later, the CMA did another one to eighty

0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.120
<v Speaker 1>and formally moved to block the deal from happening, saying Nope,

0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.320
<v Speaker 1>we're not gonna let this go through. So what the

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 1>heck happened? Where did CMA go from saying Okay, our

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.199
<v Speaker 1>concerns have been met to Nope, we can't allow this

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 1>to happen. Well, according to the CMA, the new issue

0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.680
<v Speaker 1>was a concern that the acquisition would create an unfair

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:50.040
<v Speaker 1>market in cloud gaming. Microsoft reps said the issue appeared

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.960
<v Speaker 1>to stem from a quote flawed understanding of the market

0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.719
<v Speaker 1>end quote which is throwing some shade at the CMA.

0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.199
<v Speaker 1>They also said something along the lines of it, sure

0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 1>is a shame that the CMA is determined to make

0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.840
<v Speaker 1>the UK lag behind in technological innovation. Like it was

0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of it was kind of like a like the mafia,

0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 1>making a threat in a way like the way that

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.800
<v Speaker 1>you see in mob movies where someone's like, hey, it's

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.720
<v Speaker 1>a nice shop you got here. Sure would be a

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:23.480
<v Speaker 1>shame if someone would, I don't know, set fia to it.

0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.240
<v Speaker 1>It kind of felt like that sort of threat, like

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 1>a threat that's worded in a way to potentially raise

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 1>plausible deniability. But yeah, that's that's what Microsoft was saying.

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Plus they were just saying, y'all are stupid because you

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:42.720
<v Speaker 1>don't understand the market. Shortly after the CMA made its

0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:44.320
<v Speaker 1>change of mind and said no, we're not going to

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.800
<v Speaker 1>let this go through, the EU regulators actually dropped their

0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 1>concerns and they approved the deal, so they removed one

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 1>of the massive obstacles that were in the way of Activision,

0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Blizzard and Microsoft, but the UK and the United States

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.159
<v Speaker 1>were still uncertain. Good news arrived in the US as

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 1>a judge found that Microsoft's commitments to ensuring that popular

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.840
<v Speaker 1>titles would remain on competitors' platforms were sufficient enough to

0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 1>allow the deal to proceed. This knocked down the FTC's

0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.520
<v Speaker 1>concerns on the matter. The judge said, well, Microsoft has

0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:22.680
<v Speaker 1>made a commitment to negate the problems that the FTC

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.359
<v Speaker 1>has brought up, and as long as Microsoft follows that,

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.719
<v Speaker 1>then there's no anti competitive issue here because the company

0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.080
<v Speaker 1>has committed to making sure that competitors have access to

0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.560
<v Speaker 1>those titles. That was one of the cornerstones of the

0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:39.480
<v Speaker 1>FTC's argument. So the judge said, FTC, your your argument

0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.680
<v Speaker 1>doesn't have merit to it and essentially dismissed the case.

0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.000
<v Speaker 1>This happened on July eleventh, and remember Microsoft hoped to

0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.520
<v Speaker 1>close the deal in June twenty twenty three, so this

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>is after when the original closing date was supposed to

0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:58.280
<v Speaker 1>have happened. All Right, we've got a bit more to

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.720
<v Speaker 1>cover about this case, but before we can get to that,

0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:14.200
<v Speaker 1>let's take another quick break to thank our sponsors. Okay,

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.199
<v Speaker 1>during its legal case with the FTC, Microsoft said some

0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.800
<v Speaker 1>stuff that everyone already knew but that the company had

0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.760
<v Speaker 1>never really admitted, namely, that Sony had run away with

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.200
<v Speaker 1>the victory in the console wars. Right in the announcement,

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:33.119
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft had mentioned that Sony was a larger company in

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.000
<v Speaker 1>the video game space than Microsoft was, but then this

0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.679
<v Speaker 1>was slightly different. This was Microsoft saying that the PlayStation

0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 1>consoles consistently outsold Xbox consoles. Again, this wasn't a secret,

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 1>like everyone knew this, but for Microsoft to acknowledge it

0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.600
<v Speaker 1>seemed like it was a pretty big deal. And Microsoft

0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 1>was using it in defense right. They were saying, how

0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 1>could we be decreasing competition in a market when we're

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.640
<v Speaker 1>not the dominant player in the market, Sony dominates us.

0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:09.320
<v Speaker 1>So this isn't bringing down competition, It's actually helping us

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 1>improve our position in a market that is already extremely

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.280
<v Speaker 1>competitive and we are losing. So it helps support the

0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:18.920
<v Speaker 1>story that Microsoft wasn't about to run away with everything.

0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 1>But I bet it's stung to say it out loud.

0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 1>The FTC, for its part, would appeal the ruling saying

0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.880
<v Speaker 1>that hey, actually, our concerns are well merited and they

0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.240
<v Speaker 1>we should be allowed to stop this merger. But that

0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:39.239
<v Speaker 1>appeal is still pending as I record this episode, So

0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 1>that is a we'll talk about it again in a second,

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:46.199
<v Speaker 1>but it's an unresolved matter. But with the recent win

0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 1>for Microsoft and Activision Blizzard on the books, where a

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.200
<v Speaker 1>judge had said that Microsoft was fine to pursue this

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:57.120
<v Speaker 1>merger in the United States, the company's moved to convince

0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 1>the CMA back in the United Kingdom to reconsider their

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:06.160
<v Speaker 1>position of blocking the deal from happening. So they took

0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:08.879
<v Speaker 1>the concerns that the CMA raised and they proposed a

0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:12.879
<v Speaker 1>new deal in an attempt to mollify those concerns. So,

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.960
<v Speaker 1>for example, one of the concessions that Microsoft made was

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.639
<v Speaker 1>that it would sell the streaming rights to Activision Games

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:26.159
<v Speaker 1>to Ubisoft Entertainment for non European markets. This was a

0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.080
<v Speaker 1>specific move to assuage the concerns that the deal would

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:35.000
<v Speaker 1>somehow unfairly impact the cloud gaming market. The CMA took

0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:39.920
<v Speaker 1>this newly revised deal and they took their time reviewing it,

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:44.200
<v Speaker 1>and then finally in October, they dropped their opposition to

0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:48.000
<v Speaker 1>the merger. The FTC was still urging US courts to

0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 1>review the case that they had appealed, but because there

0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:56.880
<v Speaker 1>was no active appeal case going on, technically it meant

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.240
<v Speaker 1>there were no real legal obstacles in the way of

0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft and Activision Blizzard, and so they finalized the merger

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:08.680
<v Speaker 1>that happened on October thirteenth, twenty twenty three. It took

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.680
<v Speaker 1>nearly a year and nine months from when Microsoft announced

0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:16.879
<v Speaker 1>its plans to acquire Activision Blizzard to win the deal

0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:21.720
<v Speaker 1>was actually finalized. Meanwhile, the FTC is still appealing that

0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:25.320
<v Speaker 1>earlier court decision that ruled in favor of Microsoft. The

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.879
<v Speaker 1>FTC says it wants to unwind the merger. Now I

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:32.960
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's likely to happen, but I do think

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.159
<v Speaker 1>it may see Microsoft have to pay some sort of

0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:40.400
<v Speaker 1>settlement out of court in the process. As I record this,

0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:44.520
<v Speaker 1>the matter is still pending in US courts. Microsoft most

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:48.840
<v Speaker 1>recently successfully requested an extension to file a response to

0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:52.359
<v Speaker 1>a motion to compel, so that is a motion that

0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:56.240
<v Speaker 1>the FTC brought against Microsoft to compel Microsoft to share

0:24:56.600 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 1>documentation relating to the case. The court has granted Microsoft's

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:04.720
<v Speaker 1>request and has extended the time limit to compel to

0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:08.680
<v Speaker 1>that motion to January second, twenty twenty four. So while

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:12.359
<v Speaker 1>the acquisition has already happened back in October, the matter

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:17.159
<v Speaker 1>itself technically remains unresolved until next year, and that brings

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:20.679
<v Speaker 1>us up to speed on the whole matter. I suspect

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>the merger will remain in place. The process of unwinding

0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.840
<v Speaker 1>the deal seems so complicated that it's very hard to

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.800
<v Speaker 1>imagine a court commanding it to happen. Technically, I guess

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:35.720
<v Speaker 1>it could, but it seems unlikely. However, if the FTC's

0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:39.639
<v Speaker 1>appeal actually works, this would send a massive message to

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:43.639
<v Speaker 1>businesses at large and the tech industry in particular, that

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:48.960
<v Speaker 1>there is a new focus on competition and antitrust situations.

0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Then again, we also have to acknowledge that here in

0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:55.320
<v Speaker 1>the United States, it's an election year in twenty twenty four,

0:25:55.960 --> 0:26:00.119
<v Speaker 1>and if there's another change in administration, we're likely to

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 1>see those changes trickle down into regulatory agencies as well,

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:07.360
<v Speaker 1>and things that are of huge concern right now may

0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 1>be dismissed later on. And by that I mean companies

0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:14.359
<v Speaker 1>that are looked at as being anti competitive may end

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:18.200
<v Speaker 1>up getting a pass depending on how elections go, same

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.440
<v Speaker 1>as it ever was. It's one of the big reasons

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:26.480
<v Speaker 1>why regulatory change in the United States happens rarely, and

0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:31.679
<v Speaker 1>it is increasingly difficult to happen in a world a

0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 1>political world where there's very little bipartisan support for anything anymore.

0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:41.199
<v Speaker 1>There's so much tribalism in the various political camps that

0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:45.080
<v Speaker 1>you typically just see people opposing one another. In my view,

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:48.119
<v Speaker 1>it's because if one party says yes, the other party

0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 1>has to say no. Doesn't matter if they actually agree

0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:53.600
<v Speaker 1>on the thing. At the end of the day. It's

0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.880
<v Speaker 1>just like by law, if you're in favor of it,

0:26:56.920 --> 0:26:58.920
<v Speaker 1>I have to be opposed to it. That can That's

0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:01.200
<v Speaker 1>what it seems like. Maybe I'm being far too cynical,

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:06.480
<v Speaker 1>but that's look back on how the Microsoft Activision Blizzard

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:13.040
<v Speaker 1>acquisition deal actually finally coalesced in twenty twenty three, with

0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 1>the acknowledgment that the FTC is trying to undo the

0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:21.040
<v Speaker 1>whole thing, and who knows where that's going to go again,

0:27:21.080 --> 0:27:25.560
<v Speaker 1>I'll be surprised if it changes. Oh and one other update. Yeah,

0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Bobby Kodik, the CEO of Activision Blizzard, has stepped down

0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:33.600
<v Speaker 1>finally now that the deal is done, and so that

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>thing that people have been asking for since twenty twenty

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:40.399
<v Speaker 1>one has finally come to pass. There's also been some

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:45.120
<v Speaker 1>changes in executive leadership over at Microsoft's Xbox division, and

0:27:45.320 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>it looks like there's going to be some shuffling that

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:53.679
<v Speaker 1>will go on as Microsoft determines whose role fills what

0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:57.919
<v Speaker 1>position within the newly merged company. So I'm sure that

0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:00.320
<v Speaker 1>the changes are just at the very beginning. We'll have

0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:04.040
<v Speaker 1>to see what happens in twenty twenty four. That's it.

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 1>I hope you are all well, and I am going

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 1>to wish you a happy new Year, and I'll be

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:14.919
<v Speaker 1>back with predictions with what I think might happen in

0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:18.000
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four. We know how well those go. It's

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:19.920
<v Speaker 1>been a few years since I've done one of those.

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:24.080
<v Speaker 1>And until then, I'll talk to you again, really soon.

0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:38.240
<v Speaker 1>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite shows.