1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and How the 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: tech are you? So as twenty twenty three winds down, 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: we're looking back on some of the big tech stories 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: that happened this year. I mentioned this one a few times, 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: but I figured it would be better to do a 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: full look back on Microsoft's acquisition of Activision Blizzard, which 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: actually obviously stretches back more than a year. It was 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: never a guaranteed deal and there was a significant amount 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: of opposition to it all around the world. So today 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: we're going to look at how the story began and 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: how it unfolded, as well as we'll speculate a little 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: bit about the future now that the two companies have 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: put ink to paper. Now, let's start off with background 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: on Activision Blizzard. The company traces its history to the 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: earliest days of home video game markets. Activision launched out 18 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: of Atari when a group of folks decided that it 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: might be nice to receive credit and royalties for their work, 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: rather than all that sweet cash and credit going to 21 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: the company itself. So Activision made some real bangers like Pitfall, 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: which if you're old like I am, you might remember 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: fondly compared to more recent games. Of course, it's primitive, 24 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: but trust me, at the time, Pitfall was amazing. Skip 25 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,639 Speaker 1: ahead to nineteen ninety one and a guy named Bobby 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: Kodik would, along with some financial partners, by a significant 27 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: amount of stock in Activision. He would later become the 28 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: CEO of the company. That same year, the company that 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: would become Blizzard would form. The original name for a 30 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: Blizzard was Silicon and Synapse when it was launched in 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: ninety one, but it took the name Blizzard in ninety four, 32 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: and Blizzard also published some real bangers in video and 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: computer games. It's the company behind Warcraft, which was a 34 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: huge hit in the real time strategy community. They produced Diablo, 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: which was a huge hit among the how many times 36 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: can I click my mouse button in a row? Community, 37 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: and it launched World of Warcraft, the I Will Never 38 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: see the light of day again community, among many others. 39 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: By the two thousands, Activision was creating or publishing genre 40 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: defining franchises like Call of Duty and Guitar Hero. Blizzard's 41 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: game StarCraft would become a cornerstone of esports. Blizzard also 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: changed hands multiple times in the early two thousands, ending 43 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: up with a company called Vivendi Games out of France. 44 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: Activision merged with Vivendi in two thousand and eight and 45 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: the new company was called Activision Blizzard and Bobby Kotik 46 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: became CEO of this newly merged company. Activision Blizzard continued 47 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: to develop, up and publish successful games and franchises. It 48 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: became one of the largest video game companies in the world. Now, 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: let us switch gears to talk about Microsoft. Now, obviously 50 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: Microsoft has had a really long history as well. I 51 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: think it's safe to say that the company is best 52 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: known for the Windows operating system. It's also the company 53 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: behind the Office suite of productivity software like Word and Excel. 54 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: Oh and it has a long history of Shenanigan's ranging 55 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: from misleading business deals which go all the way back 56 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: to the earliest days of the company, with Bill Gates 57 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: pulling a fast one on rivals, to a legal case 58 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: that very nearly forced Microsoft to break up into smaller companies, 59 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: but a subsequent judge in the US would overrule that 60 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: decision later on. Microsoft has been a big part of 61 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: gaming for a really long time as well. The first 62 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: edition of Microsoft Flight Simulator launched in nineteen eighty six, 63 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: but this title was actually built on an older simulator 64 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: that originally came out in nineteen seventy seven. Microsoft waded 65 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: into the video game console wars in two thousand and 66 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: one with the launch of the original Xbox console. The 67 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: Xbox three sixty would follow in two thousand and five, 68 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: and then Xbox One would come out in twenty thirteen. 69 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, Microsoft acquired Mojang Studios, the company behind 70 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: the insanely popular title Minecraft, and in twenty twenty, Microsoft 71 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: launched the most recent version of the Xbox. The Series 72 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: X is the flagship. There's also the Series S. In 73 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: recent years, Microsoft has focused more on video games as 74 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: its business model has shifted quite a bit so in 75 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: years past, new versions of Windows and updates to the 76 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: Office Suite where the flagship products for the company. That's 77 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: mainly what they focused their sales on, but the revenue 78 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: strategy has changed a bit. It focuses more on subscrib 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: options than product sales, and they also have other services 80 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: that they make money from, like cloud computing. Video games 81 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: and consoles are one of the product lines that are 82 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: still going strong in Microsoft, though there are also subscription 83 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: elements to those as well, and Microsoft faces a couple 84 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: of heavy hitters in the video game industry, namely Sony 85 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: and to a lesser extent, Nintendo, but Sony is the 86 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: real rival to Microsoft's total domination of the home video 87 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: game market. In twenty twenty one, a scandal erupted at 88 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: Activision Blizzard. Now, to be clear, the problem that was 89 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: the focus of the scandal had been in place for 90 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: a really long time, but in twenty twenty one it's 91 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: when it all sort of became public dirty laundry. Multiple 92 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: parties came forward and accused the company of allowing a 93 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: toxic environment to flourish. At Activision Blizzard. There were allegations, 94 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: like serious allegations of stuff like sexual harassment cases, including 95 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: at least a couple that were really more bordering on 96 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: sexual assault cases, and a lot of the stories ended 97 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: up being the same where employees were told that they 98 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: had to settle the matter internally within the company and 99 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: that human resources was supposed to be the first and 100 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: really only resort. Meanwhile, that department was allegedly burying these matters, 101 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: so that they wouldn't go any further. There were other 102 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: serious allegations as well, claiming the company discriminated against women, 103 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: and that it violated the law in how the company 104 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: treated pregnant women, and that it was also guilty of 105 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: retaliating against employees who brought issues up, another thing that 106 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: is against the law. The accusations also said that Bobby Kotik, 107 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: the CEO of the company, was fully aware of the 108 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: situation and that he did nothing about it, or worse, 109 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: not that he did nothing, but that he also faced accusations. 110 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: They specifically withheld in from the board of directors. There 111 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: were folks calling for Kodek's resignation, a call that CODEC 112 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: pointedly ignored. Not at the time, very few people knew 113 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: what was going on behind the scenes, but this was 114 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: when Microsoft was in early negotiations considering an acquisition of 115 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: the company, and it wasn't public knowledge yet. A big 116 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: move like that requires stability in both companies that are 117 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: part of a merger, and while a change in leadership 118 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: might have been appropriate considering the accusations involved over at 119 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: Activision Blizzard, it would also make the acquisition process more complicated, 120 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: and apparently business wins out over matters of toxicity and 121 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: abuse of employees. So Kdek stayed put, and various employees 122 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: in US agencies filed lawsuits against Activision Blizzard. The company 123 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: actually settled one of those lawsuits out of court in 124 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: September twenty twenty one. It agreed to settle a similar 125 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: lawsuit just this year, after Microsoft had already completed the acquisition. 126 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: There's a dark legacy of sexual discrimination that Activision Blizzard 127 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: must overcome, and there are different camps that view the 128 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: acquisition in very different ways with regard to that. There 129 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: are some who worry that with Microsoft acquiring Activision Blizzard, 130 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: the new parent company is just going to sweep everything 131 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: under the rug and walk away and make that just 132 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 1: a matter of the past, and no one will ever 133 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: see any justice from the various indignities and worse that 134 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: they experienced under Activision Blizzard. The other camp hopes that Microsoft, 135 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: by taking charge, will actually address these things in a 136 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: way that is accountable and will end up seeing justice 137 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: done for the people who were negatively impacted by Activision 138 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: Blizzard's environment, and that perhaps Microsoft will clean house as 139 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: part of the process. Some of that has actually come 140 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: to pass, as we have seen some changes in executive 141 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: leadership in recent days, but we'll get back to that. 142 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: So on January eighteenth, twenty twenty two, Microsoft announced its 143 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: intention to acquire Activision Blizzard. The transaction was to be 144 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: all in cash nearly sixty nine billion, with a b 145 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: dollars worth of cash, which is a whole lot of cash. 146 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: According to the press release that Microsoft was behind, this 147 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: would put Microsoft in third place among video game companies, 148 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: at least by revenue. They said that the Chinese company 149 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: Tencent was in number one and the Japanese giant Sony 150 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: was in place number two, and I suspect Microsoft listed 151 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: Sony this way, acknowledging it as a larger video game company, 152 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: because it was a strategic move. I'm pretty sure that 153 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: Microsoft and Activision Blizzard knew that this merger was going 154 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: to face scrutine all around the world, and it would 155 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: mean two very powerful companies in the video game space 156 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: would consolidate, and that could be viewed as a threat 157 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: to competition in the overall industry. So they end up 158 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: pointing out, hey, even if we're together, Sony is still 159 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: bigger than we are. It was kind of a strategic 160 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: way of saying we're not a threat to competition. Look, 161 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: we still won't be as big as Sony or Tencent. 162 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: But as it turns out, that scrutiny would exactly follow 163 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: it in the way that Microsoft anticipated, and Sony would 164 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: play a very large heart of it. I'll talk more 165 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: about this, but first let's take a quick break to 166 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: thank our sponsors. All Right, we're back. I had talked 167 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: about how Microsoft was trying to kind of pregame by saying, hey, 168 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: even when we're together, we're gonna just be in third place, 169 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: And they're positioning it in a way where they're like, hey, yay, 170 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: we're all the way moving up to third place. But 171 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: it was kind of a sly way of saying, there's 172 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: still two companies that are bigger than us, even given 173 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: this this merger. The situation also explained why Bobby Kodick 174 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: was adamant with regard to staying in charge at Activision Blizzard. 175 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: Before it looked like he was just doubling down as 176 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: a leader of a company that had a callous attitude 177 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: toward employees, specifically employees who were also women. But now 178 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: the complication of this massive business deal put things into 179 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: a new perspective, people said, Aha, this is why Bobby 180 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: Kodick refuses to step down. It's not that he really 181 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: thinks he's in the right here, but because there's this massive, 182 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: sixty nine billion dollar deal going on and he doesn't 183 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: want to mess it up by stepping down and having 184 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: someone else take charge. So it got very cynical for 185 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: good reason. It didn't take long for folks to screw 186 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,239 Speaker 1: the deal and for people to start raising their concerns. 187 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: In fact, in April twenty twenty two, several US senators 188 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: wrote a letter to the Federal Trade Commission, or FTC 189 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: about this proposed merger, and they cited worries about consolidation 190 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: in the tech industry in general, which does make sense 191 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: because there is a very small collection of very large 192 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: companies that dominate the tech space here in the United States, 193 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: and Microsoft is one of them already, and their move 194 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: appeared to be in alignment with concentrating even more power 195 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: within that small group of companies. The senators also reference 196 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: the ongoing investigations and litigations surrounding Activision Blizzard. They were 197 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: among those who were worried that a merger could mean 198 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: that employees who had been affected by the activities of 199 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: Activision Blizzard might find themselves without means to have their 200 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: issues addressed in the wake of a merger, like how 201 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: can they see justice if there's a new boss in 202 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: charge in the just essentially say upslates wipe clean. But 203 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: the real opposition to the deal, I would argue came 204 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: from overseas. Specifically in the United Kingdom. The Competitions and 205 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: Markets Authority or CMA launched an investigation into the deal 206 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: out of concern that it would lead to significant decrease 207 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: in competition in video games. There were worries that Microsoft 208 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: would reserve Activision Blizzard titles to Microsoft exclusive platforms like 209 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: Xbox consoles and Windows based PCs, that Microsoft would deny 210 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: companies like Sony and Nintendo from getting access to really 211 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: hugely popular video game franchises, and that this would constitute 212 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: anti competitive practices. Essentially, they were worried about Microsoft locking 213 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: all of these popular video game titles to an exclusivity 214 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: deal with itself. Microsoft repeatedly committed to giving its competitors 215 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: access to those pop titles. Time and again, a Microsoft 216 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: representative would refute the concerns, and this got to a 217 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: point where Microsoft agreed to sign to ten year commitments 218 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: that would cement that Microsoft would not lock games like 219 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: the Call of Duty franchise behind an exclusive arrangement. It 220 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: turned out that Sony representatives had been raising concerns with 221 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: regulators about this very thing. That Sony had been arguing 222 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: Microsoft and Activision Blizzard merging together would cause direct harm 223 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: to companies like Sony and Nintendo, and ultimately, they argued consumers. 224 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: Sony reps also said that Microsoft would squeak around guarantees right. Oh, sure, 225 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: they'll release the game, but they'll make sure that the 226 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: Microsoft version of the game has more features and more 227 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: content in it, and that the version that gets released 228 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: to platforms like PlayStation or Nintendo consoles will be stripped 229 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: down and inferior. Maybe they'll have a content, maybe it'll 230 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: be lower fidelity, something along those lines, maybe it'll have 231 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: performance issues. By the way, Sony locking stuff behind exclusive 232 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: content for themselves is something that they have done a 233 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: lot of, so you could argue they knew a lot 234 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: about this kind of idea because they themselves had sort 235 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: of perfected it. But no matter, I think the concern 236 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: was a legitimate one, even if Sony itself had been 237 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: guilty of doing the same thing to other platforms. Phil Spencer, 238 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: the head of the Xbox division over at Microsoft, ultimately 239 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: made a public statement that said the company would release 240 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: Call of Duty titles to PlayStation for as long as 241 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: there's a PlayStation to release titles too. Essentially said, we're 242 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: never going to get out of the business of creating 243 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: video games for other platforms. It doesn't make sense because 244 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: while we could dominate the market and be anti competitive, 245 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: there's more money to be made by making titles for 246 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: other platforms. That's that's what we want to do, ultimately, 247 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: is make more money, not have some sort of, you know, 248 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: de facto dominance in the market. This was after more 249 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: than a year of back and forth in various regulatory arenas. 250 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: So not only did the two companies face stern opposition 251 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: in the UK, here in the United States things were 252 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: getting thorny as well. The Federal Trade Commission announced it 253 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: was opposed to the deal. In fact, the FTC sued 254 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: Microsoft to stop the deal from happening. Again. The concern 255 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: was that the deal marked a decrease in competition in 256 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: the market and that it would give Microsoft an unfair 257 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: advantage over other companies. And again this is something that 258 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: Microsoft has a well earned reputation of doing in the past, 259 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: So it's not like Microsoft is some innocent babe in 260 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: the woods. The company has been found guilty of engaging 261 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: in anti competitive practices. So in some ways you can 262 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: look at this as the FTC saying, ah, you're back 263 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: up to year old tricks again Microsoft. By early twenty 264 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: twenty three, the European Union had also jumped into this mess, 265 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: and regulators in the EU said that they too were 266 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: concerned about the deal. At this point, things were starting 267 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: to look pretty uncertain. Microsoft and Activision Blizzard were facing 268 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: critical scrutiny in the UK, the EU, and the US. 269 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: That's a lot of initials. The deal was supposed to 270 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: close in the summer of twenty twenty three, but at 271 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: this point that seemed like that was going to be 272 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: wishful thinking. In fact, the deal itself was by far 273 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: not a guarantee. There were serious doubts coming up. For 274 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: a few short weeks, things actually started to look up 275 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: for Microsoft and Activision Blizzard because the CMA, potentially the 276 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: harshest critic of all the regulators. Arguably the FTC wins 277 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: out in the end, but the CMA had serious concerns 278 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: about this deal, but in March of twenty twenty three, 279 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: CMA said, you know what, we're not as concerned about 280 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: this whole thing as we used to be. They essentially 281 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: said they were no longer concerned on March twenty fourth, 282 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. However, on April twenty sixth, twenty twenty three, 283 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: a month later, the CMA did another one to eighty 284 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: and formally moved to block the deal from happening, saying Nope, 285 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: we're not gonna let this go through. So what the 286 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: heck happened? Where did CMA go from saying Okay, our 287 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: concerns have been met to Nope, we can't allow this 288 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: to happen. Well, according to the CMA, the new issue 289 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: was a concern that the acquisition would create an unfair 290 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: market in cloud gaming. Microsoft reps said the issue appeared 291 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: to stem from a quote flawed understanding of the market 292 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 1: end quote which is throwing some shade at the CMA. 293 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: They also said something along the lines of it, sure 294 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: is a shame that the CMA is determined to make 295 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: the UK lag behind in technological innovation. Like it was 296 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: kind of it was kind of like a like the mafia, 297 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: making a threat in a way like the way that 298 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: you see in mob movies where someone's like, hey, it's 299 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: a nice shop you got here. Sure would be a 300 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: shame if someone would, I don't know, set fia to it. 301 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: It kind of felt like that sort of threat, like 302 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: a threat that's worded in a way to potentially raise 303 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: plausible deniability. But yeah, that's that's what Microsoft was saying. 304 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: Plus they were just saying, y'all are stupid because you 305 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: don't understand the market. Shortly after the CMA made its 306 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: change of mind and said no, we're not going to 307 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: let this go through, the EU regulators actually dropped their 308 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: concerns and they approved the deal, so they removed one 309 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: of the massive obstacles that were in the way of Activision, 310 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: Blizzard and Microsoft, but the UK and the United States 311 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: were still uncertain. Good news arrived in the US as 312 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: a judge found that Microsoft's commitments to ensuring that popular 313 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: titles would remain on competitors' platforms were sufficient enough to 314 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: allow the deal to proceed. This knocked down the FTC's 315 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: concerns on the matter. The judge said, well, Microsoft has 316 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: made a commitment to negate the problems that the FTC 317 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: has brought up, and as long as Microsoft follows that, 318 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,719 Speaker 1: then there's no anti competitive issue here because the company 319 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: has committed to making sure that competitors have access to 320 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: those titles. That was one of the cornerstones of the 321 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: FTC's argument. So the judge said, FTC, your your argument 322 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have merit to it and essentially dismissed the case. 323 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: This happened on July eleventh, and remember Microsoft hoped to 324 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: close the deal in June twenty twenty three, so this 325 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: is after when the original closing date was supposed to 326 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: have happened. All Right, we've got a bit more to 327 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: cover about this case, but before we can get to that, 328 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: let's take another quick break to thank our sponsors. Okay, 329 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: during its legal case with the FTC, Microsoft said some 330 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: stuff that everyone already knew but that the company had 331 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: never really admitted, namely, that Sony had run away with 332 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: the victory in the console wars. Right in the announcement, 333 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: Microsoft had mentioned that Sony was a larger company in 334 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: the video game space than Microsoft was, but then this 335 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: was slightly different. This was Microsoft saying that the PlayStation 336 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: consoles consistently outsold Xbox consoles. Again, this wasn't a secret, 337 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: like everyone knew this, but for Microsoft to acknowledge it 338 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: seemed like it was a pretty big deal. And Microsoft 339 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: was using it in defense right. They were saying, how 340 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: could we be decreasing competition in a market when we're 341 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: not the dominant player in the market, Sony dominates us. 342 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: So this isn't bringing down competition, It's actually helping us 343 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: improve our position in a market that is already extremely 344 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: competitive and we are losing. So it helps support the 345 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: story that Microsoft wasn't about to run away with everything. 346 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: But I bet it's stung to say it out loud. 347 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: The FTC, for its part, would appeal the ruling saying 348 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: that hey, actually, our concerns are well merited and they 349 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: we should be allowed to stop this merger. But that 350 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 1: appeal is still pending as I record this episode, So 351 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: that is a we'll talk about it again in a second, 352 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: but it's an unresolved matter. But with the recent win 353 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: for Microsoft and Activision Blizzard on the books, where a 354 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: judge had said that Microsoft was fine to pursue this 355 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: merger in the United States, the company's moved to convince 356 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: the CMA back in the United Kingdom to reconsider their 357 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: position of blocking the deal from happening. So they took 358 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: the concerns that the CMA raised and they proposed a 359 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: new deal in an attempt to mollify those concerns. So, 360 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: for example, one of the concessions that Microsoft made was 361 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: that it would sell the streaming rights to Activision Games 362 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: to Ubisoft Entertainment for non European markets. This was a 363 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: specific move to assuage the concerns that the deal would 364 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: somehow unfairly impact the cloud gaming market. The CMA took 365 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: this newly revised deal and they took their time reviewing it, 366 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: and then finally in October, they dropped their opposition to 367 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: the merger. The FTC was still urging US courts to 368 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: review the case that they had appealed, but because there 369 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: was no active appeal case going on, technically it meant 370 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: there were no real legal obstacles in the way of 371 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: Microsoft and Activision Blizzard, and so they finalized the merger 372 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: that happened on October thirteenth, twenty twenty three. It took 373 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: nearly a year and nine months from when Microsoft announced 374 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: its plans to acquire Activision Blizzard to win the deal 375 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: was actually finalized. Meanwhile, the FTC is still appealing that 376 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: earlier court decision that ruled in favor of Microsoft. The 377 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: FTC says it wants to unwind the merger. Now I 378 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: don't think that's likely to happen, but I do think 379 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: it may see Microsoft have to pay some sort of 380 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: settlement out of court in the process. As I record this, 381 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: the matter is still pending in US courts. Microsoft most 382 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: recently successfully requested an extension to file a response to 383 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: a motion to compel, so that is a motion that 384 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: the FTC brought against Microsoft to compel Microsoft to share 385 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: documentation relating to the case. The court has granted Microsoft's 386 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: request and has extended the time limit to compel to 387 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: that motion to January second, twenty twenty four. So while 388 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: the acquisition has already happened back in October, the matter 389 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: itself technically remains unresolved until next year, and that brings 390 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: us up to speed on the whole matter. I suspect 391 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: the merger will remain in place. The process of unwinding 392 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: the deal seems so complicated that it's very hard to 393 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: imagine a court commanding it to happen. Technically, I guess 394 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: it could, but it seems unlikely. However, if the FTC's 395 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: appeal actually works, this would send a massive message to 396 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: businesses at large and the tech industry in particular, that 397 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: there is a new focus on competition and antitrust situations. 398 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: Then again, we also have to acknowledge that here in 399 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: the United States, it's an election year in twenty twenty four, 400 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: and if there's another change in administration, we're likely to 401 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: see those changes trickle down into regulatory agencies as well, 402 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: and things that are of huge concern right now may 403 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: be dismissed later on. And by that I mean companies 404 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: that are looked at as being anti competitive may end 405 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: up getting a pass depending on how elections go, same 406 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: as it ever was. It's one of the big reasons 407 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: why regulatory change in the United States happens rarely, and 408 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: it is increasingly difficult to happen in a world a 409 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: political world where there's very little bipartisan support for anything anymore. 410 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 1: There's so much tribalism in the various political camps that 411 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: you typically just see people opposing one another. In my view, 412 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: it's because if one party says yes, the other party 413 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: has to say no. Doesn't matter if they actually agree 414 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: on the thing. At the end of the day. It's 415 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: just like by law, if you're in favor of it, 416 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: I have to be opposed to it. That can That's 417 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: what it seems like. Maybe I'm being far too cynical, 418 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: but that's look back on how the Microsoft Activision Blizzard 419 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: acquisition deal actually finally coalesced in twenty twenty three, with 420 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: the acknowledgment that the FTC is trying to undo the 421 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: whole thing, and who knows where that's going to go again, 422 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: I'll be surprised if it changes. Oh and one other update. Yeah, 423 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: Bobby Kodik, the CEO of Activision Blizzard, has stepped down 424 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: finally now that the deal is done, and so that 425 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: thing that people have been asking for since twenty twenty 426 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: one has finally come to pass. There's also been some 427 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: changes in executive leadership over at Microsoft's Xbox division, and 428 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: it looks like there's going to be some shuffling that 429 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: will go on as Microsoft determines whose role fills what 430 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: position within the newly merged company. So I'm sure that 431 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: the changes are just at the very beginning. We'll have 432 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: to see what happens in twenty twenty four. That's it. 433 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: I hope you are all well, and I am going 434 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: to wish you a happy new Year, and I'll be 435 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: back with predictions with what I think might happen in 436 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. We know how well those go. It's 437 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: been a few years since I've done one of those. 438 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: And until then, I'll talk to you again, really soon. 439 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 440 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 441 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.