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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll

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Speaker 1: be your host, Emily Simpson with my sidekick Shane. I

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Speaker 1: love how Shane always just has a first name. It's

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Speaker 1: never Shane Simpson. It's like Shaer Madonna and Shane. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we're just gonna do a little update. If you listened

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Speaker 1: to the last episode, we did a little tidbit on

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Speaker 1: this Kimberly Sullivan case, which is the crazy step mom

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Speaker 1: who kept her step son locked away for twenty years. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: there's just a little bit of an update on that.

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Speaker 1: She the biological mom, which we were questioning before. Remember

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Speaker 1: when we were talking about this case, like where is

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Speaker 1: the Yeah, because it's the step mom that kept him

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Speaker 1: locked away. Yes, So there was a USA article that

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Speaker 1: came out that so the biological mom came forward and

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Speaker 1: the biological mom is a fifty two year old woman

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Speaker 1: named Tracy and she was who identified herself as the

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Speaker 1: biological mother of Kimberly Sullivan's stepson. And she said, thirty

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Speaker 1: two years ago, due to personal reasons and for the

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Speaker 1: full benefit of my son, she made the gut wrenching

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Speaker 1: decision to give full custody to the ex husband. First

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Speaker 1: of all, I just have to say, as a mother,

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Speaker 1: I can never wrap my brain around someone giving away

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Speaker 1: full custody of their children, regardless of the circumstances. I

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Speaker 1: just I cannot imagine any scenario where I give up.

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Speaker 2: My children, unless it was a full blown adoption scenario,

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Speaker 2: like a parent is giving away the child for a

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Speaker 2: better life.

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Speaker 1: To go and oh, okay, no, I understand that. I

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Speaker 1: guess I don't understand a situation where you're the biological mother,

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Speaker 1: you have the child, but then you give up full

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Speaker 1: custody to the other parent and you just don't want

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Speaker 1: any kind of visitation or anything anyway. She said it

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Speaker 1: was a painful, emotional decision that's hard for any mother

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Speaker 1: to make, but she thought it would have She thought

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Speaker 1: her son would have a better life, which is the

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Speaker 1: irony here in retrospect, this does not come to pass.

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Speaker 1: For the last thirty years, my family and I have

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Speaker 1: searched for him to reconnect, only to be turned away

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Speaker 1: and shut out. So she claims that they had been

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Speaker 1: looking for him and that she had reached out, and

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Speaker 1: that basically the father and the stepmom didn't want her

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Speaker 1: to have anything to do with the child.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, because she's gonna find out he was locked

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Speaker 3: in a room.

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Speaker 1: Probably. She claims that the last few days had been

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Speaker 1: so shocking, disturbing, and disgusting to even seem true. I

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Speaker 1: hope him, pray we can all begin to heal and

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Speaker 1: help my son to lead a full, happy, loving life.

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Speaker 1: I know deep in my heart I have always been

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Speaker 1: there for him and always will. Please grant us time,

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Speaker 1: peace and respect as we cope with this tragic situation.

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Speaker 1: So she said that she had tried to be in

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Speaker 1: her son's life. She also has a daughter who would

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Speaker 1: be the man who was I guess they never released

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Speaker 1: his name. I just keep calling him the man, but

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Speaker 1: he's the step son and the one that was the victim,

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Speaker 1: the victim that was locked away. He has a half sister,

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Speaker 1: and apparently the half sister had been using social media

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Speaker 1: and other online tools to try and find her brother

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Speaker 1: for years, but had not had any success. Well, we

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Speaker 1: know he's not on social media because he's been tortured

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Speaker 1: for the past twenty years.

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Speaker 3: So you know it now.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of sad because these people wanted to look

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Speaker 2: for him, and they were probably hopeful they'd have a

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Speaker 2: relationship with him. And then he was in a good

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Speaker 2: place and that maybe you know, he had good upbringing

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Speaker 2: and now they could reconnect, now that maybe the mom

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Speaker 2: is in a better situation, and only to find out

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Speaker 2: that he.

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Speaker 1: Was you know, yeah, well, I mean, how devastated would

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Speaker 1: you be as a mother if her intent in the

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Speaker 1: beginning was really she did give up custody because she

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Speaker 1: thought he would have a better life with the father

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Speaker 1: who maybe was more She might.

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Speaker 2: Have thought it would be less co parenting issues, and

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Speaker 2: maybe he could have some stability because maybe they were

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Speaker 2: at odds, and so she thought, you know what, instead

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Speaker 2: of me fighting this father all the time, maybe I'll

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Speaker 2: give him a stable household and just let him go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But then to think thirty years old, I yeah,

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Speaker 1: find out that you gave away full custody of your

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Speaker 1: child because you thought they would have a better life,

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Speaker 1: and then you come to learn that they were locked away, starved, emaciated.

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Speaker 3: Torture and almost couldn't have been a worse life.

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Speaker 1: Had to set their house on fire in order to

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Speaker 1: get someone's attention and be saved. His half sister says,

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Speaker 1: I just want him to know that he has a

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Speaker 1: big sister, And I've always known he had, that he's existed.

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Speaker 1: I've always loved him and I've always been trying to

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Speaker 1: find him. I've been looking for him for over a decade.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to wait until he was eighteen. I'm almost

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Speaker 1: thirty five now. There was nothing, no social media, no

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Speaker 1: court records. So it seems to me that she did

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Speaker 1: kind of try to do.

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Speaker 2: A deep diet doesn't exist. And I bet you the

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Speaker 2: parents deliberately were not on the internet.

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Speaker 1: Also, probably they were probably hiding this, hiding everything about this,

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Speaker 1: this family life.

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Speaker 3: Now they're all over the internet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Kimberly Sullivan, who is the stepmom this step son.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where she's at as far as a case,

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Speaker 1: I mean as she was arrested, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: we've had any update, right, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know, but hope she doesn't get doesn't see the

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Speaker 2: light a day, right.

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Speaker 1: So, the step son and his biological mother have not

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Speaker 1: connected since this discovery, which was a month ago, but

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Speaker 1: the mother told NBC Connecticut that she hopes that they

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Speaker 1: reunite soon. I hope so too. I hope I hope

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Speaker 1: that he has some yes, And it sounds like the

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Speaker 1: sister is very interested in being a part of his life.

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Speaker 1: So hopefully there is some happy ending for this man.

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Speaker 2: Because maybe he can get uh, maybe he can collect

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Speaker 2: the insurance proceeds from the f fire.

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Speaker 1: He deserves at least that much. Yes, all right, here's

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Speaker 1: another interesting story. I just want to do a little

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Speaker 1: brief background on some of these smaller cases, and then

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Speaker 1: we're actually going to go into the Brian Coburger case,

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Speaker 1: which is the Idaho murders case. I just I read

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Speaker 1: this and I actually found this. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: I found it interesting. Maybe because it's a husband and

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Speaker 1: wife and we're a husband.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious to know what it says, wife kills husband.

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Speaker 2: I find this interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's actually husband tries to kill a wife. But oh,

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Speaker 1: so this is Ario and his name's Gerhard Koenig. He

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Speaker 1: is a man accused of trying to kill his wife

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Speaker 1: in Hawaii. This just recently happened. So on Monday, March

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Speaker 1: twenty fourth, forty six year old Gerhard tried to push

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Speaker 1: his wife Ariel off of a cliff in Oahu on

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Speaker 1: a trip that he planned for her birthday.

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Speaker 3: So they're not from Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: No, I think they live in Maui.

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Speaker 2: Actually Okay, so they're locals, yes, and so thanks for

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Speaker 2: her birthday, he plans a birthday trips surprise, yes.

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Speaker 3: Push.

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Speaker 1: The couple, who have been married for six years and

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Speaker 1: shared two young children together, live in Maui. Ariel told

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Speaker 1: the story of her attempted murder in her own words

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Speaker 1: and an application for a restraining order against her husband

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Speaker 1: on Thursday.

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Speaker 2: So he how did she succeed? How did she overcome

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Speaker 2: his pushing her off a cliff?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get into the details of this. Gerhard,

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Speaker 1: who is the husband, suggested that they take a hike

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Speaker 1: on a trail near one of the local lookouts. In

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Speaker 1: her court filing, she noted the topography of the trail,

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Speaker 1: saying it was very narrow ridge sections with steep drop

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Speaker 1: offs on both sides. He then won it as selfie

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Speaker 1: at the edge of the cliff, but she was uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: and moved away. He's like, no, one foot off the

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Speaker 1: cliffs closer a little more, she said. That was when

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Speaker 1: her husband tried to push her. He was yelling something

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Speaker 1: to the effect of get back over here. I'm so

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Speaker 1: effing sick of you, and he continued to push me.

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Speaker 1: She wrote. She thought he was joking at first, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I would.

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Speaker 2: Oh, so he wants to give her some last words

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Speaker 2: before he pushes her off.

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Speaker 3: Well, he's mad.

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Speaker 1: Because she's moving away. She's not close enough to the edge,

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Speaker 1: so he's yelling at her to get back over there.

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Speaker 1: And then she claims that she quickly realized that he

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Speaker 1: was not joking, that he was seriously trying to make

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Speaker 1: me fall off of the cliff. She then writes, and

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Speaker 1: this is an application for a restraining order, that she

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Speaker 1: threw herself onto the ground away from the edge to

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Speaker 1: save herself, at which point her husband climbed on top

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Speaker 1: of her. At one point, she said, this is a doctor.

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Speaker 1: By the way, he's an antithesiologist. He grabbed his bag

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Speaker 1: and pulled out a syringe and vial and tried to

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Speaker 1: inject her.

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Speaker 3: He brought his medical bag.

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Speaker 1: Yes, wouldn't that have been a sign? Don't you think

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Speaker 1: He's like, let's go on a hike, but I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna bring my my anesthesiologists bag with me.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So, so he's attempting to inject her with something?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so too. Yes, So she's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I know she's a badass.

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Speaker 3: I should have pushed him off the cliff.

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Speaker 1: I do not know what was in the syringe, but

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Speaker 1: Gerhardt is an antithesiologist and has access to several potentially

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Speaker 1: lethal medications as part of his employment, she wrote in

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Speaker 1: this court filing. Ultimately, the doctor who's the husband, grabbed

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Speaker 1: a rock and began to pound her in the head.

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Speaker 1: Miss Koenig told police that he also grabbed her hair

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Speaker 1: and smashed her face into the ground. Luckily for her,

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Speaker 1: there were two women farther down the trail that interview

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Speaker 1: that intervened, and they told police that they heard a

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Speaker 1: woman screaming for help. One of the women told police

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Speaker 1: that she ran ahead and saw a man hitting a

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Speaker 1: woman in the head with a rock. He is trying

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Speaker 1: to kill me.

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Speaker 3: The woman holding a medical bag.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a man with a medical bag and a syringe,

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Speaker 1: close to the edge of a cliff on a trail

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Speaker 1: was beating her over the head with a rock. They

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Speaker 1: shouted that they were calling nine to one one and

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Speaker 1: the man fled. The women then helped Miss Koenig down

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Speaker 1: the trail. I like that he flees like no one's

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Speaker 1: going to know what's him.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully they won't be identify my wife won't be able

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Speaker 2: to identify me.

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Speaker 1: Police pull out an all points bulletin for doctor Koenig

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Speaker 1: and shut down the area around the look at and

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Speaker 1: trails during a multi hour manhunt. He was found and

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Speaker 1: taken into custody about six pm that evening. In the interim,

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Speaker 1: Miss Koenig said she learned that doctor Koenig had called

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Speaker 1: one of his adult children. So he has adult children

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Speaker 1: with a different wife. I guess he called.

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Speaker 3: They have a children together, they two, they have two.

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Speaker 1: Young children together, and they were married for six years.

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Speaker 1: But apparently he called one of his adult children via FaceTime.

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Speaker 1: Allegedly he was covered in blood and said I just

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Speaker 1: tried to kill Ari, but she got away.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, can you can you be my alibi?

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Speaker 1: It's I hate that I'm laughing at this, but.

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Speaker 3: This is well, if she didn't survive, we certainly no.

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Speaker 1: But she she survived.

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Speaker 3: So I mean not she didn't sur write without any trauma, right.

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Speaker 1: Ms Koonig wrote that she is afraid for herself. Well,

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Speaker 1: that seems obvious at this point, her children and the

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Speaker 1: rest of her family if her husband is released on bail.

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Speaker 1: His bail has been set at five million, and he

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Speaker 1: is expected back in court on March thirty first for

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Speaker 1: preliminary hearing. I find this case so interesting that I

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Speaker 1: feel like we might have to do a follow up

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Speaker 1: after his March thirty first preliminary hearing. I just clearly

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Speaker 1: poorly executed, clearly not well thought out, or he underestimated

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Speaker 1: how strong Yea his wife is. I think he thought

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Speaker 1: he was just going to be able to push her

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Speaker 1: off the edge really easily.

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Speaker 3: So my goodness, all right.

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Speaker 1: That to get into the bulk of what do.

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Speaker 3: We know the motive? I you know, I have a.

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Speaker 1: I assumed that there was a mistress because when I

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Speaker 1: was reading and it said he facetimed, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was going to say he facetimed his mistress. But it

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Speaker 1: wasn't his mistress.

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Speaker 2: It was but his daughter wasn't in on it or

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Speaker 2: anything or there's no no, not known anything about.

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Speaker 1: That, not that we know of right now, although it

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Speaker 1: makes me speculate because he called the adult child and

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Speaker 1: said like she got away basically, so I don't know

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Speaker 1: if other people were involved in this plot. We shall

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Speaker 1: stay tuned and let you know of any updates on

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Speaker 1: this case. But Shane is not taking me to Maui

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Speaker 1: or Uah anytime soon. I refuse to go all right,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's get out. Have to be more creative, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: to think of something better than that. Okay, let's get

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Speaker 1: into the bulk of this episode. We really wanted to

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Speaker 1: do the Brian Coburger case, which is the Idaho student murders.

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Speaker 1: I've had tons and tons of you guys out there

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Speaker 1: that have been listening to legally Brunette thank you by

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Speaker 1: the way, dming me and asking us to go through it.

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Speaker 1: So he he does go on trials soon. I believe

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Speaker 1: it's August eleventh, So this will be just an episode

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Speaker 1: of the background, the facts, the evidence, where we're at currently,

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Speaker 1: and then we hope to most likely follow the trial

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Speaker 1: once he goes to trial. Let's do a little bit

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Speaker 1: of the background of this case. Let's just give us

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Speaker 1: some background information so we're all on the same page.

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Speaker 1: So in the early hours of November thirteenth and twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, University of Idaho students. It was Kaylee Gonkalvius

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Speaker 1: who was twenty one, Madison Mogan twenty one, Xana Kernodle

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Speaker 1: twenty and Ethan Chapin twenty.

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Speaker 3: How many lived in the house.

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Speaker 1: So there were five girls that lived within the house.

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Speaker 1: Ethan was staying the night with his girlfriend Xana, he

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Speaker 1: did not live in the home, and then there were

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Speaker 1: the two survivors. So on this night, on November thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, there were four college students were murdered

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Speaker 1: and they're off campus residents. Thirty year old Brian Koberger

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Speaker 1: has been accused of the murders and is being charged

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Speaker 1: with four counts of first degree murder and one count

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Speaker 1: of burglary. At his arraignment, he did not I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you knew this, But when they asked him

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Speaker 1: how he pleaded, he just he stayed silent. So the

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Speaker 1: judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf.

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Speaker 2: He should have entered it guilty plea. If you don't

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Speaker 2: say anything, then you're gonna be guilty. Yeah, but it's

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Speaker 2: and it would be easy. Then you just sent in something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I feel I feel like that's unconstitutional. I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't talking about legality. Oh, I'm sorry, guys, clearly

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Speaker 3: a nut murder.

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Speaker 1: Well, he is innocent until proven guilty, so we have

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Speaker 1: to we have to stick with that. If convicted, he

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Speaker 1: could face the death penalty and Idaho. Also, I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he read.

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Speaker 3: This method of death penalty in Idaho.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I didn't look that up, but I'm going to look

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Speaker 3: it up. Okay, look up it's important facts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I really need to prepare myself for all the questions.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know what would it be?

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Speaker 3: Chair?

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Speaker 1: Electric chair or lethal injection? Aren't those the only two methods?

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Speaker 3: Firing squad?

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Speaker 1: They do use the firing squad.

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Speaker 2: You t use the firing squad. There was someone that

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Speaker 2: was executed this month. I think I don't remember what

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Speaker 2: state that shows the firing squad.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's what I would choose.

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Speaker 1: You would choose the firing squad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I would choose not to commit crimes that

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Speaker 2: are first choice. I've thought about this. You stand there

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Speaker 2: with a blindfold. Yeah, right, you don't really know what's

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Speaker 2: going on, and it's.

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Speaker 1: Just you don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 3: I guess you.

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Speaker 2: Don't see what's going on, right, Like like the lethal

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Speaker 2: injection is there's too many steps.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why there's.

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Speaker 2: Strapping you down. There's multiple injections. They you know, all

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Speaker 2: this stuff and it's like a slow process to your death. Okay,

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Speaker 2: firing squad, I go stand there, there's ten armed men

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Speaker 2: that stand in front of you, or however many there is,

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Speaker 2: only one has a bullet. I don't know how that

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Speaker 2: really helps their conscious but yeah, that way, you don't

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Speaker 2: know who did it. That's the same with the electric share.

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Speaker 2: There was multiple, which is and you flipped.

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Speaker 3: Him and you didn't know which one did it.

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Speaker 1: Why is that supposed to protect the person firing?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe they have some conscience of well, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it was me they killed them, which

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Speaker 2: is like, but I was willing to point a gun

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Speaker 2: at them and pull the trigger. Anyway, it's just one

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Speaker 2: quick shot in the heart and.

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Speaker 3: That's it and it's over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's what you would shoot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, firing squad is now the primary method of execution,

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Speaker 2: and lethal injection is an alternative.

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Speaker 1: See that was right, that's crazy to me, all right.

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Speaker 1: There were two survivors from that night. The roommates were

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Speaker 1: Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk. They were home at the

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Speaker 1: time of the murders. There's a lot of interesting things

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Speaker 1: are going with that. We're going to get more in

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Speaker 1: detail into that so the events of that night. After

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Speaker 1: a busy Saturday night out, all the roommates were back

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Speaker 1: at the house by approximately two am the morning of

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Speaker 1: November thirteenth. Kernodle and Shapen, they're the ones that are dating,

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Speaker 1: had been at a party at a frat house, and

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Speaker 1: Matty Mogan and gun Calves were at a local bar.

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Speaker 1: Then they stopped at a food truck. It was called

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Speaker 1: the grub Truck. I actually was very interested in the

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Speaker 1: food truck.

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Speaker 3: I know, I knew the food truck would catch you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I did for a late night snack. And there's

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Speaker 1: actually video surveillance on the food truck because they I

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Speaker 1: guess what they do. They put it onto TikTok or

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Speaker 1: something like all the it's like a like a marketing

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Speaker 1: a marketing thing for them. So there was actually very clear.

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Speaker 2: Footage of provide security. They might document in case someone steals.

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Speaker 1: Someone seals tacos. Come again, right, If I was ever

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Speaker 1: going to commit a crime, it would be something It would.

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Speaker 3: Be sealing eating someone's it would be eating.

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Speaker 1: Somebody else's tacos. Yeah. Xana Kernodle briefly left her room

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Speaker 1: to grab a door dash order at around four a m.

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Speaker 1: According to court documentary.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's really funny that all these things nowadays

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Speaker 2: provide a digital footprint like door dash, you know, ring camera, yes,

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Speaker 2: door dash, even the food truck has apparently is live

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Speaker 2: streaming or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I do know, honestly, I was thinking about this in

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Speaker 1: this case because the digital footprint is so interesting on

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Speaker 1: how they tracked Brian Coberger back to this crime, and

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Speaker 1: it made me think it's really difficult to commit crimes now.

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Speaker 2: Well, certain crimes apparently you can push someone off a cliff.

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Speaker 3: As well as you're.

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Speaker 1: On these trails.

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Speaker 2: Everything here is going to be like modern day like tracking, right, That's.

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Speaker 3: How they got to Ghettle.

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Speaker 1: So the third floor of the house house gone Calvez

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Speaker 1: and her dog in one room, and then Mogan was

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Speaker 1: in another bedroom. Yet the night when the murders occurred,

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Speaker 1: the two of them were sleeping in the same bed

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Speaker 1: when they were murdered, and the dog was in the

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Speaker 1: other room. Cernodle and Shapin were on the second floor,

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Speaker 1: and so was Mortensen, and Mortenson was the one that lived.

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Speaker 1: According to the affidavit, Funk was alone occupant on the

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Speaker 1: first floor, where the front door was Around four am

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Speaker 1: Mortenson woke up to noises up stairs, and she told

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Speaker 1: police she thought gon Kalviz was playing with her dog

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Speaker 1: on the third floor. Then she heard crying coming from

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Speaker 1: the direction of Kernodle's room and looked outside once more.

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Speaker 1: From above, she then felt like she heard a male

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Speaker 1: voice that was in shape and saying something to the

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Speaker 1: effect of it's okay, I'm going to help you. This

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Speaker 1: is all according to the affidavit that was filed, it's

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Speaker 1: not clear where the male's voice was coming from. Mortensen

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Speaker 1: heard crying again and open the door. I think this

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Speaker 1: is the third time. She opens the door, and this

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Speaker 1: time when she opens the door, she sees a figure

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Speaker 1: clad in black clothing with a mask covering their mouth

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Speaker 1: and nose, walking forward towards her. Then she freezes, is

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Speaker 1: what she says. She's just stand there shot and he

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Speaker 1: walks past her and goes out the sliding door. Mortensen

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Speaker 1: froze and the person walked past her.

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Speaker 2: That begs questions, Well, there's a lot of which we

404
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 2: don't have answers. Why didn't he attack her, right? You know,

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Speaker 2: he probably knew he was covered so she couldn't identify him,

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Speaker 2: so maybe, but but why did he kill someone not

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Speaker 2: the others?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Maybe that wasn't part of the plan, Like she sprung

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Speaker 2: on him and he thought, so, this wasn't part of

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Speaker 2: his plan. He thought he already executed everything, and then

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Speaker 2: he didn't want to improvise his you know, a fifth murder.

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Speaker 1: Right around four seventeen am, a security camera less than

414
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Speaker 1: fifty feet from Kernodle's bedroom wall picked up distorted audio

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Speaker 1: of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by

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Speaker 1: a loud thud. According to the Affid David, a dog

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Speaker 1: can also be heard barking. Okay, I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions about what happened that night.

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Speaker 3: The dog did not die.

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Speaker 1: Correct, No, the dog did not die.

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Speaker 3: So what did the dog provide a statement?

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Speaker 1: The dog did not provide a statement. I have so

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Speaker 1: many questions though. First of all, let me just ask you,

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Speaker 1: do you think he was targeting all of the students

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Speaker 1: in that house or do you think he went in

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Speaker 1: to kill one and then was surprised that they were

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00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: sharing a bedroom, and then he felt like he had

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Speaker 1: to kill the other one, and then maybe he heard

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Speaker 1: some the noises and then had to go to the

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Speaker 1: other room and kill them and then was surprised that

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Speaker 1: there was a boyfriend there and then had to kill him.

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Speaker 1: And he ends up killing four people, but only but

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Speaker 1: not with the intent to kill all the Do you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean?

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00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 3: I have no idea how, but I know what he

436
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 3: was thinking.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm just that's what goes on simplify.

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Speaker 2: You're saying, was he trying to kill one person and

439
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Speaker 2: then Moore got mixed in them?

440
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the two girls were sharing a room and

441
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: they normally don't share a room. So my question is

442
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 1: was he targeting one of those girls? Possibly he comes

443
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 1: into the house, he comes in clad in black, he

444
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: has the knife, he kills one of the girls, and

445
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: then he's like, and then there's another one in the

446
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 1: bed they're sleeping in the end, was.

447
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 3: He stalking one of them? Do we know that?

448
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 1: We don't know that. I did read that apparently Brian

449
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 1: Coberger was a vegan and he frequented a Greek restaurant

450
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: where Maddie and Kayley worked. And we assume, or I've

451
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: read it somewhere, there's some assumption that he or allegedly

452
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: he was following them on instant and I had read somewhere,

453
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 1: and if anyone is out there listening and you you're

454
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: more clear on this. I know that I have read

455
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,239
Speaker 1: somewhere that they did find some DMS. Not that she

456
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: had answered, but he had DMed her just kind of like, hey,

457
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: what's up, like slid into I can't remember if it

458
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: was Maddie or Kaylee, but had slid into.

459
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 3: Their Nonetheless, there's some connection.

460
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 2: He saw two of the girls at some restaurant that

461
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 2: he frequented, and then he he there was a connection

462
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 2: on Instagram to him and the household.

463
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: Right, So my question is, and I know I'm.

464
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: Into So they didn't go to the same school or anything,

465
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 2: They had no other ties together.

466
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: No, he was he was a PhD student in Washington State,

467
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 1: and then they were all Idaho University of Idaho students

468
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: like undergrad and he was in the PhD program and

469
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: criminology elsewhere elsewhere. Okay, First of all, I also have

470
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 1: to say that this case, me reading this case and

471
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: researching this case, I didn't realize how bad a geography

472
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: I am because I had no idea that Washington State

473
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: bordered Idaho. I know you're looking at me like I'm

474
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: an idiot, but I did not know that Idaho had

475
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: that top part that goes up.

476
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

477
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a chimney that goes up and borders Washington.

478
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: Because when I kept reading that they were only like

479
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: ten miles apart, these two college campuses, one in Washington

480
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: State and one in Idaho, I'm like, how are they

481
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: ten miles apart? How is Washington ten miles from Idaho?

482
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: Apparently they border each other and I didn't even know

483
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 1: that anyway. Back, I just had to throw that in there.

484
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: Legally, Brunette, it's not geography, Brunette exactly.

485
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: I had no idea anyway. Apparently he had frequently topography topography.

486
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 3: Geography is more like the rocks in the lands.

487
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: Okay, anyway, now I know they order each other. He

488
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: apparently had followed these girls on Instagram and had DMed

489
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: one of them a few times, so he knew who

490
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: they were. I would be under the assumption that he

491
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: possibly followed them home and that's how he knew where

492
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: they lived.

493
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, at some point I'm sure he did.

494
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, If it was targeted, then he had to

495
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 2: have done that.

496
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: So then back to my question was did he target

497
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: one of the girls or both the girls? And then

498
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: end up killing four people that night because he wasn't

499
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: aware that there were so many people up at that

500
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: time or whatever. Anyway, what's interesting is I feel like

501
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: a lot of these gaps in this case will be

502
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: filled in when he goes to trial. All Right, So

503
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: at four twenty am, Mortensen started frantically calling her roommates Kernodle, Gone, Kalvez,

504
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: then back to Kernodle again. She called Mogan, that's Mattie

505
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: Mogan again before texting Bethany Funk. Bethany Funk is another

506
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: one that is does not perish that night, and she

507
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: says no one is answering. Bethany then had also tried

508
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 1: calling Maddie and Kaylee and Shapin. During that time, Kaylee

509
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: Mortensen texted to her what's going on? The text message

510
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: remained unanswered. Investigators believe the four roommates were killed sometime

511
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: between four am and four twenty five AM. So basically

512
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: there's the door dash order at four, then there's some noises.

513
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: They're texting their roommates asking them what's going on. Then

514
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: at four to twenty five. I believe they know a

515
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: four twenty five because this is when they catch the

516
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: white Alantra on surveillance video leaving at a rapid rate

517
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: from their house. Yeah, so he basically entered the home

518
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: murdered four people with a k bar knife within a

519
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: twenty minute timeframe.

520
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

521
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess, well, it has to be I mean,

522
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 2: I hate song and on two different floors. It has

523
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: to be kind of quick because people are going to run, right,

524
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 2: so kind of. I mean, he's gruesome anyway, clearly he's

525
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: a nut, so it's not you, and I think, like,

526
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: that's horrific.

527
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: I could never do that in twenty minutes.

528
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 2: But he had to do it quick otherwise others would

529
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: wake up, call the police, they would run.

530
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 3: So I had to be executed really quickly.

531
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: Okay, here's my other question, and this is another thing

532
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: that goes on in my head. There's four people. There's

533
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: two in a room, two in another room. They had

534
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: to have been so intoxicated that they didn't make a

535
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: lot of noise.

536
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I know it's college and this and nan,

537
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: you know they're out getting isolated.

538
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: No, I mean they were out, both of them. One

539
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: was at a frat The two were at a frat party.

540
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: The other one was at a bar. I mean, clearly

541
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: they were.

542
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 2: Intoxicated, okay, level of intoxication.

543
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying for a man to overcome two

544
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: girls and then to move to another bedroom and a

545
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: girl and her boyfriend with little to no noise, I mean,

546
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: the other two that are survivors, they don't hear screaming,

547
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: they don't hear fighting, they don't there's not furniture being overturned.

548
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 3: I don't know, I haven't.

549
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, all they here is some slight whimpering voice.

550
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: I remember in the beginning, I had the prejudgment of, oh,

551
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: they're probably wasted and they want some time.

552
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 3: People don't want to call the cops because they'll say they.

553
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: Had drugs in their system or pot or whatever. And

554
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: the other one is they were just kind of not

555
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: all there to be able to quickly react and they

556
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: probably just went back to sleep.

557
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: So you're saying just the alcohol level on all four

558
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: of them probably led to him being able to eat

559
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: A loss one scenario, because I'm just thinking about the

560
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: girlfriend and the boyfriend in the room together and the

561
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: bed together, and if he slips into the room and

562
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: he's murdering, he's got to murder one. What is the

563
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: other one doing. I mean, maybe they're passed out they

564
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: don't notice it.

565
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 3: I don't know.

566
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you. If someone is murdering me

567
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: and we're in bed together, I need you to fight back.

568
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: I'll try to wake up.

569
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: Can you please get up and do something? All right?

570
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 1: All right?

571
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 3: Do you mean save him? He'd probably beat the crap

572
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 3: out of him.

573
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: Probably.

574
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

575
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: Anyway, let's get back to these text messages. So there's

576
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: a lot of text messages going on between the two

577
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: surviving roommates and the four that are upstairs in the

578
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: second and third floor of the house. Bethany replies yeah, dude, wtf,

579
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: with Mortensen describing some one in quote like a ski

580
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: mask almost so she's so, she's actually texting the other

581
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: roommate saying that she saw someone in a ski mask

582
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: in the house.

583
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I could see her not wanting to leave

584
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: her room.

585
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 2: Yeah I would. I don't know if I would. I mean,

586
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 2: that's pretty frightening. And plus, these homes are like they're

587
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: designed for college students, I think probably, so they're probably

588
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 2: like hallways and rooms are separated, not like a traditional

589
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: home where there's like a new big front entrance.

590
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: And it's open, so I imagine.

591
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: It was apartment like and they were hiding in their room.

592
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: So the two remaining roommates that are alive continued texting

593
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: back and forth about the man in the hall. There's

594
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: a lot of typos because you can tell they're panicked, right,

595
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: They're just like you know, Bethany says to Dylan, possibly

596
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: intoxicated and intoxicated right stfu. This is after she tells

597
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: her that she saw a man in a ski mask,

598
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: like he had something over his head, forehead and little mouth.

599
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I'm so freaked out, so am I.

600
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: Then Bethany indicated her phone was about to die, and

601
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: so she texted come to my room, which was below

602
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: this is on the first floor, and then she texts run.

603
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: So the defense claims in court documents that Dylan, ultimately,

604
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: so Dylan is the one that saw the man. Dylan's

605
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: the one that opens the door like three different times,

606
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: and on the third time when she opens the door,

607
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: that's when she sees the guy walk by in the

608
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: ski mask. Okay, then she's the one that texts to

609
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: Bethany on the first floor and says, I saw a

610
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: man in a ski mask. And she's like WTF. Then

611
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: she says, come down to my room. Run. So then

612
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: Dylan ends up going to Bethany's room and the two

613
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: of them stay the night on the first floor together.

614
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: They launch another round of calls to their roommates at

615
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: four twenty seven without an answer, and we know, based

616
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: on the timeline already, that their roommates were dead at

617
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: this time. They're calling them, texting them for twenty seven

618
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: please answer, Dylan texts to the roommates upstairs at four

619
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: thirty two am. Prosecutors have indicated that they plan to

620
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: use the testimony of the two surviving roommates and want

621
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: to use their text messages to illustrate the timeline of

622
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: the night. I know that the roommates aren't We know

623
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: they're not involved, but I don't understand, and I'm trying

624
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: to give them grace here, but I don't understand how

625
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: you see a man in your house walk by you

626
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,239
Speaker 1: in a ski mask well, and your roommates are not

627
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: answering or replying, and you go down to your roommate's

628
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: room and you stay the night in the room.

629
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: I don't think the issue is one ran to the

630
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: other's room. The issue is then Chappelle asleep.

631
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: No, they're up there.

632
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 3: There's a whole stay. No, no, the girl one girl

633
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 3: went to the other girl's room.

634
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: Yes, stayed the night, stayed the night. Yes, I said,

635
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: how long were they was till the police war notified?

636
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, the stays the whole night. And there's a whole

637
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: a digital background. I mean on their phones. They have

638
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: it of them like they one gets on LinkedIn and

639
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: then they're on Snapchat, and then they're on Instagram, and

640
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: then they're back on Snapchat.

641
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: Writs a lot of questions like what the heck? Then

642
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: they went to resume to normal behaviors. They just go

643
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: back to their regular you know, Instagram and whatever.

644
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's the part where I'm confused. And

645
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: then one of them, I don't remember which one wakes

646
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: up in the morning at seven am and calls their

647
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: mom or calls their dad, and then calls their dad back,

648
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: and then the dad calls. Here's my question, and this

649
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: is another thing that will come out at trial, I

650
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: assume because we don't know this, But what was the

651
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: conversation when she called her home? She she has a

652
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: conversation with her dad at like seven or eight in

653
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: the morning after an after a Saturday night out drinking someone,

654
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: they see a mass man in the house. Their roommates

655
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: aren't answering. Then she has a phone conversation with her dad.

656
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: Was what was in that conversation because they end up

657
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: not calling nine one until someone else comes over to

658
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: the house at noon.

659
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 3: Okay, so clearly they didn't go into the victim's.

660
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: Rooms, no or yell or yell up for them.

661
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 2: Well, they tried to call them and no one answered.

662
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, they're all in the same house. It's level.

663
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know.

664
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: Why don't they open the door and be like, hey,

665
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: maybe they just all kind of had their own space

666
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: and they just didn't they thought, Okay, they're sleeping with

667
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: some guy.

668
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 3: On the mask. I don't know. I don't know how

669
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: what the dynamic is. Is that normal behavior for them?

670
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: I don't know.

671
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: Is it normal behavior to see someone in a mask

672
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: ski mask walking around in your house?

673
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 3: No? No?

674
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we know that the defense is clearly

675
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: going to point out that while they're not being able

676
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: to get a hold of their roommates and that they

677
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: saw a mask man intruder in their house, that they

678
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: don't call like.

679
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 3: They're gonna get a discredit.

680
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: Clearly, maybe this didn't happen because if people saw a

681
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 2: masked man in the home, they would call the police.

682
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: They instead went on LinkedIn and went to bed, So

683
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 3: clearly chat and so yeah, is their testimony credible? Right,

684
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: But there's more evidence.

685
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot more evidence, I'd say, And I'm not

686
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: questioning their honesty as to like they're just respond I'm

687
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: just questioning. I just I don't understand in what world

688
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: you see an intruder in your home when you're a

689
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: college student, you can't get a hold of your roommates,

690
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: you're scared, and you don't call the police. That's the

691
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: part that I don't understand. But then again, I don't know.

692
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: I've never been in a situation where that happens. So

693
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: maybe there is some kind of fight or flight thing

694
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 1: that goes on and you are in shock. I don't know.

695
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: A transcript of the Surviving Roommates nine to one one

696
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: call was also released, and the transcript shows the case

697
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: what it was at eleven fifty six, am.

698
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, like at noon the next day.

699
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what I just keep saying. Yes, it was

700
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: eight It was eight hours after the murders took place.

701
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: That was finally called what time they wake up? No,

702
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: I just told you. One of them was awake at

703
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: seven I believe it was seven am and she was

704
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: making phone calls to her dad.

705
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: She just stayed awake for four hours before she called,

706
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 2: four or five hours.

707
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: They might have fallen asleep in there a little bit. Yeah,

708
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: they for an hour or so.

709
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: I don't know.

710
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: That's why I'm saying the trial will be very interesting

711
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of these questions and

712
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: these gaps.

713
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to witnesses.

714
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: They're going to be witnesses, and it will be really

715
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: interesting to hear these gaps filled in. What was the

716
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: conversation about what was your mental state during that time?

717
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: Why did you not?

718
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: There is going to try to poke holes in that.

719
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: But there's still DNA evidence, yes, and there's his car

720
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: roaming around the cellular usage.

721
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: Right, all right, let's get to how Brian was actually caught.

722
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: So the DNA evidence in this case is really interesting

723
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: to me. So they found a knife sheath that was

724
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: left behind, and again the knife she is interesting to

725
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: me because Brian allegedly shows up. He murders four people.

726
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: He's a criminals he's working on his PhD in criminology.

727
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: So we're not talking about someone that's.

728
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about a low level and experienced,

729
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: uneducated murder.

730
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: You're talking about someone who's crime and crime scene is

731
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: their passion. And I don't know how you show up

732
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: to a murder you have You have a knife, that's it.

733
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: You have a ski mask and a knife. And how

734
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: you leave the knife sheath behind when that's all you're carrying.

735
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: It's not like you have a purse and a wallet

736
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: and a backpack and a bunch of stuff that you're handling. Well,

737
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: I mean maybe he did.

738
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 3: He's also committing four murders.

739
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: That's a lot.

740
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of hard to maybe manage your yeah, multitask, right.

741
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: So the knife sheath on this k bar knife which

742
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: I actually looked up an image of it. It's a

743
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: big knife.

744
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a knife.

745
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: It is, it's it's the knife sheath itself, says.

746
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: Usmc on it.

747
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: I had that knife and this house, like let's say

748
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: it just bought one and I had it. You would

749
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 2: quickly identify as what the heck is this knife? Where

750
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 2: did you get it?

751
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: Why do we have? What do you need it for?

752
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 3: It's not like it would just get mixed with all

753
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 3: or other the kitchen knife, right, No, But.

754
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,479
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's not It's not to say there's

755
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: not a reason to have the knife. It's not like, oh,

756
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: if you have the knife, you're a murderer. But it's

757
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: not a typical knife to have, and so you better

758
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: have an explanation for it.

759
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. If I had the knife in the home and

760
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 3: you asked about it, he's like, Oh, I don't know.

761
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 3: I just thought it was kind of cool.

762
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: It was on sale, Like, it doesn't make sense. You

763
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: would be like, what's the reason for this knife?

764
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 3: Right?

765
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: And I could say collecting, hunting, but I'd have to

766
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: have a reason. It's not just you never know, I

767
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: just got a knife. So what's his reasoning? Because there's

768
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 2: history he bought that. He bought that same knife too, Do.

769
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: You know that? Yes?

770
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: And I was going to get to that, but that

771
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: is more of the evidence that they have against him.

772
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: They did find through his digital footprint he purchased the

773
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: knife with the sheaf and the knife sharpener.

774
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 3: Were they separate items?

775
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah? On Amazon, and I believe he I believe they

776
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 1: were purchased eight months prior to the murder.

777
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: Yes, that sounds about right, But I know that the

778
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: Amazon account is a family account, and so there's issues

779
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: with expectation of privacy from the others. And it's also well,

780
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: who bought the knife?

781
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 3: But that's the thing. He needs to have an explanation

782
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: for that knife. Yeah, yeah, he does.

783
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: You mean if he wants to explain his reason, Like

784
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: if I'm at the scene of a crime about the

785
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: times of the murder, but I didn't commit the murder, well,

786
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to have an explanation as.

787
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: To why I was there. He has to have an

788
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 3: explanation as to why. Oh and the what's the knife

789
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: cover called a sheath? A sheath, so the sheath? Does

790
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: he have the sheath.

791
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: Or does he only have the knife or neither? So

792
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: if he an explanation, here, an explanation for why he

793
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: bought the knife, an explanation as to if he doesn't

794
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: have the knie because he liked to throw it out right,

795
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: he's hiding it's evidence.

796
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the.

797
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: Sheath Okay, but we're gonna get more into this knife

798
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: because there's new evidence that has come out recently.

799
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll tell me.

800
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: Okay that this is why the defense is trying to

801
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: suppress his Amazon his digital footprint is Amazon purchase because

802
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: apparently after the murders, he was looking for a replacement

803
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: knife because the knife was never found.

804
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: Well, someone on the Amazon account was looking for the knife. Oh,

805
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: so the thinking is, oh, my gosh, I better have

806
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: a new knife to kind of explain that.

807
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 3: See.

808
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: Look, there's no blood on here, there's no anything this

809
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: and I have the sheath that's you know, and everything.

810
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: So the sheath is found in the bed, and the

811
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: sheath has some DNA on it on the on the

812
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: button part of the sheath. The knife has never been found.

813
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: I've read, I've heard of thought. I've heard people say

814
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: that possibly he got rid of the murder weapon and

815
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: that drive between going yeah, probably because I guess you

816
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: pass a river it's called Snake River or something that

817
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: he could have thrown it into the river. Now there's

818
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: new evidence that's come forward that the defense is obviously

819
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: trying to suppress. But it's that he after the murders,

820
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: was looking at that same k bar knife. So if

821
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: the knife is missing and the sheath was found, is

822
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: he trying to purchase the knife again to say, hey,

823
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: I do have it. It's right here. I didn't use

824
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: it in a murder. I have it. It's in my house.

825
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: So that's what he was trying to do.

826
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: So there's that.

827
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 3: That's why I said you have to have an explanation

828
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: for the knife or the missing knife.

829
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: He is trying to buy it, but did he buy it? No,

830
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 2: it was just a search history. I think I believe

831
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: it was.

832
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: A search history, and I don't know. I couldn't tell

833
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: if if they could tell from this digital footprint if

834
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: it was purchased, or they can only tell that he

835
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: was looking at it in order.

836
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 3: Well, I mean.

837
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: Speculation.

838
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: We're speculating, and an argument could be made someone in

839
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 2: the household was looking at it, maybe because he took

840
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: the knife, and someone.

841
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: Else where maybe because the dagerating.

842
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: About my knife is missing. I'm going to get a

843
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 3: new one. The son, did you you borrowed my knife?

844
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 3: Did you? I needed to put it back? Yeah? Wow,

845
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 3: all right, so just wait to you know, this is

846
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 3: where I get it beyond a reasonable doubt. But there's

847
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 3: so many coincidences where it's like this is not normal.

848
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: Now you're purchasing the same knife and yours is missing,

849
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: and you're driving around these girls' homes.

850
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so not I don't know.

851
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,959
Speaker 1: Well, he's innocent until proven guilty, but let's just keep going.

852
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: Because there is DNA that's found on the knife sheath.

853
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: The DNA in this in this case is really interesting

854
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: to me because they ran the DNA into the national

855
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: FBI database, which is COTIS, and they get no hits.

856
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's never had a crime before, right to

857
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: be in the system.

858
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: Right. So it says the first investigator submitted the DNA

859
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: to the FBI database CODIS, but when that didn't turn

860
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: up a match, investigators turned to genetic genealogy. It actually

861
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: has a name which is really interesting. It's called IgG.

862
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: It's investigated genetic genealogy. And I think this is going

863
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: to be something that's more prevalent because now there's all

864
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: these DNA databases like twenty three and meters and these

865
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: heritage databases. And what they did was they took the

866
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: DNA and because they got no hits and CODIS, they

867
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: ran it through it.

868
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: They found family members.

869
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: They found family members in these genealogy databases, and they

870
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: got a hit with the dad. I believe. Then I

871
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: think they followed him because he takes a road trip

872
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: after the murders are committed. He and his dad take

873
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: a road trip in December and they drive from Washington,

874
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: where he goes to college in this PhD criminology program.

875
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: They drive his white Alantra to Pennsylvania where his family

876
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: home is. I believe the police followed him or kept

877
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: track of him somehow they knew that he was going

878
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: to be home in Pennsylvania. And then they go through

879
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: the trash and they find more DNA and they make

880
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: a match, so they're using this genealogy type of genetic

881
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: DNA research. They get the dad, there's a hit, They

882
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 1: find his FAMI family, They follow him to his family home.

883
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: They go through the trash again. There's no expectation of

884
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: privacy and trash, right, you put trash out on the

885
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: side of the road.

886
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: It's not an illegal circh. I read something. Yeah, once

887
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: you put it in the trash, it's fair game. But

888
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: I think I read something that they use the trash

889
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: service to go collect the trash because it was in

890
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: a gated community, and I guess police didn't have the

891
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: ability to get in or they just chose to have

892
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: the garbage person go and like retrieve it, like hey,

893
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: give us that trash over there. And so then the

894
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: idea is, yeah, is there an expectation of privacy or something?

895
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 3: You know, I think that's going to fall flat.

896
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, I do know. The defense filed

897
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: a motion to suppress or to throw out the evidence

898
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: with the genealogy, and that's also going to be another issue.

899
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: I know they've hired they've brought someone onto the defense

900
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: team which is an expert in the DNA and the

901
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: genealogy and all that, because they're going to try and

902
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: definitely use that to tear apart but to.

903
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 2: Do what I mean, DNA's DNA. So what's the argument

904
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 2: to be made?

905
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: I you know, because they're gonna they're going to try

906
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: and say that they you know, didn't do the right things,

907
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: They didn't test it enough. Was there tainted in the testing?

908
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, but.

909
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: It was the DNA on the knife cover was trace

910
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: evidence or trace DNA, meaning he just put his thumbprint

911
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: and just left some DNA. It wasn't blood, so you

912
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 2: can't It's not very easy to transfer trace DNA from

913
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 2: one source to another without any other DNA also being

914
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: put on there.

915
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's I think that's going to fall flat too.

916
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 2: I think they're going to try to poke all these holes,

917
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: but I don't think anyone's going to buy it.

918
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: I do believe that in these preliminary motions they tried

919
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: to they filed emotion to suppress the genealogy part of

920
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: it the DNA because they were saying it was unconstitutional.

921
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: But the question is, is when you give your DNA

922
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: to these databases.

923
00:42:59,000 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 3: Is it public?

924
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 2: Is does it expectation and privacy remain when I submit

925
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: my saliva for a DNA test?

926
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: Right? And I believe what the judge said is when

927
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: you're when you're giving your DNA to a third party,

928
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: there's no expectation of privacy.

929
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: No, you're in a freaking database.

930
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: Right, all right. Investigators then built a family tree of

931
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: hundreds of relatives using the same tools and methods used

932
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: by members of the public who wish to learn more

933
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 1: about their ancestors. So this is how so. The FBI

934
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: investigators then sent local law enforcement a tip to investigate Coburger.

935
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: After law enforcement obtained the DNA from Coburger's father and

936
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: later they got a cheek swab from Coburger, which I

937
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: assume they got a warrant at that point. At that

938
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: point to get the cheap the cheek swab from him directly.

939
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: I assume they submitted an affidavit with all of these things,

940
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: as far as the DNA on the sheaf, the genealogy

941
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: it hit on the dad, They got the you know,

942
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: the DNA from the trash, It all matched. And now

943
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: they got a cheek swamp from Coburger, and they found

944
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: that there was a statistical match showing it was overwhelmingly

945
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: likely that the DNA found on the knife sheath match Coburger's.

946
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: So that's where the DNA came to play. We talked

947
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: about this a little bit, but let's just make this

948
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: Let's just go into a little more detail about his

949
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: purchases prior to the murders. The state has revealed new evidence.

950
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 1: It plans to present a trial that includes a purchase

951
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: record from Dick's Sporting Goods that prosecutors say shows that

952
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: Coburger bought the black And I didn't know what this was.

953
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: I never heard of this before, but I guess this

954
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: ski mask he had on is called Bala clava.

955
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 3: It has an opening, fat eyes. It doesn't have like.

956
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: Two circles, right, So I actually googled that because I

957
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: never heard of it before, and it showed up on Revolve.

958
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: So Revolved, which I ordered from eight thousand times a

959
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: day Carrie's.

960
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 3: So they sell a murder kit.

961
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: They sell murder kits on Revolve, and.

962
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 3: They have a good return policy. They have an.

963
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: Amazing return So he could have worn it, yeah, returned

964
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: it that night, put it back in the box, put

965
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: the shipping label on, and sent the mass back.

966
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: And I think one of the uh surviving roommates she

967
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: drew what kind of mask he wore.

968
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: She did match that type exactly. It's that open, just

969
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: like you said.

970
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 3: The one ninja. You look like a ninja, right, So.

971
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: The same type of mass was described by a surviving roommate,

972
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: and she also, like you just said, in a police sketch,

973
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: she claimed she saw a man wearing a black ski

974
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: mask inside the King Rode home the night of the killings.

975
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: She also said that she could tell that he had

976
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: bushy eyebrows.

977
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, which that.

978
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: Comes into play later because apparently he took a selfie

979
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: the morning after the murders.

980
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 3: And does he not have bushy eyebrows. He does, Oh

981
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: he does? He shaved him or something.

982
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: No, no, So this a selfie that he took the

983
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: morning after the murders. I believe it was like they

984
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: found it in his phone, you know, evidence that apparently

985
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: he took it around ten am or something like that.

986
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: He's like freshly showered, you know, just just committed the

987
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: perfect murder. I'm going to take a selfie as a

988
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: thumbs up, right, he has like there's like a shower

989
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: head in the background, but.

990
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 3: There's a shower.

991
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: He jumped inaid okay, Yeah, So he takes a shower,

992
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: he cleans off all the evidence, apparently allegedly, and then

993
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: he takes his selfie around ten am I believe was

994
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: the time frame. This is after the murders. He's clean,

995
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: he's got his bushy eyebrows, and he's got a thumbs up.

996
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: So I know the prosecution wants to enter this selfie

997
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: into evidence to show to corroborate that she said the

998
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: man she saw had bushy eyebrows, and here we have

999
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: a selfie up all close in time with the bushy eyebrows. So,

1000
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: in addition, investigators found a k bar military knife sheath,

1001
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: which we knew and though the knife itself is still missing,

1002
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: which we think possibly he got rid of it maybe

1003
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: in the river. Prosecutors say Coburger bought a k bar

1004
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: knife eight months before the killings. So we have the

1005
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: DNA evidence and we also have the car act. So

1006
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: state prosecutors presented a map detailing what they say are

1007
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: the times and locations Coburger's vehicle was picked up on

1008
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: surveillance video near the crime scene. After reviewing several videos

1009
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: obtained from the area near the crime scene, authority saw

1010
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: the suspects vehicle later determined to be a twenty fifteen

1011
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: white Hyundai Elantra multiple times between three twenty nine am

1012
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: and four to twenty am on the day of the attack. So,

1013
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: like we said earlier, there's ring footage of this car

1014
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: and they live on this house. The murder house is

1015
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 1: on a dead end.

1016
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 3: So you're definitely not driving by, right, so it's not

1017
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 3: like you're just.

1018
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: Driving by, you're going pass, you're turning. I think they

1019
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: have video surveillance of him doing a three point turn,

1020
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: and then there's surveillance of him at like four twenty

1021
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,959
Speaker 1: five am or something leaving quickly in this car investigators

1022
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: found out that Coburger had registered the twenty fifteen white

1023
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: Alantra in Washington on November eighteen, five days after the killings.

1024
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: So this is interesting because I was thinking, did he

1025
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: purposefully not register his vehicle in Washington, because in Washington

1026
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 1: then you have to have a plate on the front

1027
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: and the back of the car. His car was registered

1028
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, where he's from, and he had no front

1029
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: license plate. So do you think that he I mean,

1030
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: he's a criminology major. He's getting a PhD. So I

1031
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: thought he was thinking he was out smarting police by

1032
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: not having a front license plate and not registering his

1033
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: car in Washington.

1034
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're making a connection. He didn't register so

1035
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have to put a plate on. Amazing, Well,

1036
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: was it criminal you would just not put a plate on,

1037
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: Like all of a sudden, He's like, oh, I got

1038
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 2: to follow the local state highway rules.

1039
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: Well, what's the what's his reasoning for waiting five days

1040
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: after the murders to then register his car in Washington.

1041
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1042
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, if you are meticulously planning a murder

1043
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: and you buy the murder weapon eight months before, and

1044
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: you and you purchased this ski mask, and you've gone by,

1045
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: and there there is I don't know if I already

1046
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 1: said this, but there they picked up on his cell

1047
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: phone where he had driven by this residence twelve times

1048
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: prior to that night. Yeah, so he's canvassing this house.

1049
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: And every time they picked him he pinged, you know,

1050
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: near their house on his phone. It was at nighttime

1051
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: or early morning. So it's not like he's driving by

1052
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: because he's I don't know.

1053
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 3: Business being on that street right in the middle of

1054
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 3: the night.

1055
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: Right. So my point is, if this man is meticulously

1056
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: planning a murdery, is a criminology.

1057
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but he still makes mistakes. He left the

1058
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 3: knife cover, I.

1059
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: Know he made, like the most basic one. He left

1060
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: the murder weapon behind, yeah, or not the weapon, but

1061
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: the sheath he left it behind. I don't know. I

1062
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: was just thinking that the license plate in registering the

1063
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: car was probably some thought that he had that he

1064
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: was evading police in some type of manner. Anyway, that's

1065
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: just me.

1066
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 3: But again, when he goes down. You also thought Washington

1067
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 3: and Idaho were far apart. I did.

1068
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: I thought? I thought I thought Idaho was like I

1069
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: thought Idaho was in the southern United States, Like, I

1070
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: thought Idaho was down by Utah. Isn't.

1071
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 3: Well, it touches Utah also.

1072
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: But I thought it was below Utah. I didn't really.

1073
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, no, way off. That's why I drive everywhere.

1074
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 2: Okay, that's why when you're like I'll be home in

1075
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: ten minutes and it's thirty four minutes later. Where exactly,

1076
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: And then you're like, I need gas again, I'm like, already,

1077
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: I just drive a lot.

1078
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 3: Yes, you do.

1079
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: Also, I read that this is interesting. You'll find this interesting.

1080
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: Are you listening? Are you paying attention? In Idaho, where

1081
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: he's being tried, the state requires that if you're going

1082
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: to use an alibi defense that you have to well,

1083
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: you have to file that prior to the trial. I

1084
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: want a surprise, you can't do a surprise alibi, you

1085
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: have to file. So basically, defence has filed an alibi

1086
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: that he was driving around the night of the murders

1087
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: because he likes to look at the stars. So basically

1088
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: what they've done is take the evidence that the prosecution

1089
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: has and then you formulate you turn it around and

1090
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: formulate an alibi around that, and it's their alibi is

1091
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: he was alone in his car driving around, But he

1092
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 1: does that a lot because he likes to just drive around.

1093
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: This was in November.

1094
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 2: I wonder if it was like overcast and stuff, because

1095
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 2: that would be easy to be like, really, there's no stars,

1096
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 2: it was overcast that night.

1097
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 3: Well, no, he drove.

1098
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: I mean he drove by their house twelve times between

1099
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: June and November.

1100
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 3: Oh, so he's this dead end has a really good

1101
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: showing of the star. Right.

1102
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: I love to drive down this dead end and look

1103
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: at the stars and the hiking trails. On November thirteenth,

1104
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: the suspect's phone was near his home in Pullman, Washington,

1105
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: that's where he's in the PhD program at two forty

1106
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: seven am, but did not appear on a network again

1107
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: until approximately four forty eight am, when it was detected

1108
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: near Blaine, which is south of Moscow, Idaho, where the

1109
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: murders took place. Basically, what he has done you can

1110
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: tell is he shut his phone off between two forty

1111
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: seven am and four forty eight because there's no cell phone.

1112
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 3: Data, which is more suspicious.

1113
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: Right, So I'm saying again he's trying to elude police

1114
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 1: by turning.

1115
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 2: It's like when the criminal wants to elud police and

1116
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 2: all of a sudden they got their car like completely detailed, right,

1117
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: you know, and it's like the guy will be like, yeah,

1118
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: he's my neighbor. I've never seen him wash his car

1119
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 2: in ten years, and all of a sudden he got

1120
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 2: a detail service.

1121
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah all right. Or when there's a murder on the

1122
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: carpet and they rip the carpet out, your new carpet,

1123
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: yffe area, I just need a new carpet throughout the

1124
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: entire house. So anyway, what he's done is he has

1125
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: all this cell phone data right it's pinging, pinging, And

1126
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: then between the timeframe of the murders there's no cell phone.

1127
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: He turns his phone off, I know.

1128
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 3: And it's like when people burn a house down to

1129
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 3: hide a murder. Yeah, it actually.

1130
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 2: Creates more evidence because you can see that it was

1131
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 2: like an arson and it started over here and like

1132
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: and then it's like, oh, they use this gas can,

1133
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: then they can find out where the gas get was.

1134
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 3: Bot I always like.

1135
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: When people burn a house down to cover up a murder,

1136
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: but then they find the body in the house and

1137
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: it has like a bullet hole in the body and

1138
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: you're like and.

1139
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: And it creates more evidence for them to find someone

1140
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: because now there's an arson case.

1141
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: Oh yes, they just created it.

1142
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 3: They create more evidence.

1143
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 2: So here he is creating more evidence like turning his

1144
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: phone off, which you know, kind of lets you know

1145
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: what he was thinking or what he was planning, or

1146
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: where it was turned off and where it was turned

1147
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: back on.

1148
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: So the lack of phone data during this crucial time

1149
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 1: period is consistent with Coburger attempting to conceal his location

1150
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: during the quadruple homicide. This is what investigators determine. Less

1151
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,959
Speaker 1: than four hours later, between ninety twelve and nine twenty

1152
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: one am, Coburger's phone was detected near the crime scene

1153
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: again in Idaho, which suggests he returned to the area

1154
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: after allegedly killing the four students. This is my question.

1155
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: Did he go back to the crime scene because his

1156
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 1: usually do, But why did he? Why did he not

1157
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: turn his cell phone off? Then if he's turned his

1158
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: cell phone off the night of the murders, so there's

1159
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: no cell phone data, but then he goes back the

1160
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: next morning, why did he not turn his cell phone

1161
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: off again?

1162
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 2: He's he he could have simply forgot. He could alsop

1163
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: the crimes already done, so they're.

1164
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 3: Not going to look at my data after I don't

1165
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 3: know who knows.

1166
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: Do you think he went back to look for the

1167
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: knife sheath? I mean, what's he gonna do go in

1168
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: the house in the morning.

1169
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 3: Excuse me, excuse.

1170
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: Me, I left something.

1171
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. There's

1172
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: also do you think he's going to change somebody? Do

1173
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 3: you think he's going to testify? You think this is

1174
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 3: the kind of guy that's like, no, no.

1175
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: I tell you he won't testify because well, first of all,

1176
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: I've learned that he's on the spectrum, and that's that's

1177
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: a defense that they that the defense is going to

1178
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: use for the weak defense.

1179
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: You know why, Well, because he's a PhD mate, he's

1180
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 2: pursuing a PhD, and he's going to claim like I'm

1181
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 2: not all there.

1182
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: No, I don't think they're going to use autism as

1183
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: as a defense. They're going to use autism as if

1184
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: he's convicted that they can't give him the death penalty

1185
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 1: because it's and unusual unusual punishment with someone too.

1186
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, well killing four people, and.

1187
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: I get it, but I if he's autistic, and I

1188
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: do believe that I've read that he suffers with depression

1189
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: and that he wrote something about not having emotions and

1190
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: not being able to show emotions.

1191
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 3: How can you be depressed if you don't have emotions.

1192
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: Well, you can be depressed and sad. He had a

1193
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: heroin addiction. I mean, he's got all kinds of Yeah,

1194
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: he had a heroin addiction because apparently he was depressed,

1195
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: so he did heroin. And I did read somewhere that

1196
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: he wrote something online about not having feelings and emotions.

1197
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: And I'm just saying, someone like that, with that kind

1198
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,959
Speaker 1: of intense stare, with no emotions, you can't put someone

1199
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: on the stand like that. They're gonna come off callous

1200
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: and cold. And he's got bushy eyebrows, like.

1201
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 3: You're you're not put someone on the stand and it's

1202
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: not going to be favorable, is what you're saying.

1203
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,399
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm trying to say it and a way, Yeah,

1204
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: thank you for saying.

1205
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 3: But he might want to.

1206
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the defense team at the end, well, I

1207
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 1: mean I guess that it is up to him. Yeah,

1208
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 1: I don't think he will. I think that they would

1209
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: talk him out of it and say no way right right.

1210
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: I do know because I've watched every episode of Forensic

1211
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: Files that when a lot of times murderers go back

1212
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: to the crime scene immediately because they like to they

1213
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: like to.

1214
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 3: See their work. Yeah, you didn't have to watch the

1215
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 3: files to know that. Well, that's the maintain thing. They

1216
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 3: always return to the scene of the crime, right.

1217
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of times when police are investigating,

1218
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: they do a sweep yeah of the scene, right because

1219
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,760
Speaker 1: a lot of times the fine.

1220
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: Who's suspicious, who's acting odd and stuff, and they can

1221
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 3: or who they.

1222
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: See repeatedly in the background or talking or being around anyway.

1223
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: Especially if someone like him is talking to the Oh

1224
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 2: wasn't he like talking to the police when he got

1225
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: arrested too? And he was all like casual and askaying

1226
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: we should go out to coffee, and he was asking

1227
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 2: him questions about their careers and stuff. It's like, dude,

1228
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 2: you were just arrested for murder and you're just like

1229
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 2: curious to know about their careers and you want to

1230
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 2: go have cock with them to talk about things.

1231
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: Well, apparently he had applied to like the Pullman, that's

1232
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: the city he lived in in Washington, Like he had

1233
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: applied to their police department, like he wanted to do

1234
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: some kind of research or something, or help them in

1235
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: crime scenes or something. So maybe he was just casually

1236
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: asking them about their job.

1237
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 3: No, but that's what you would be doing.

1238
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 2: If you're arrested for murder and you didn't commit it,

1239
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 2: then you're just casually making small talk with the police.

1240
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: Well, if you were arrested for murder and you're in

1241
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: the back of the car and you did not do it,

1242
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: what would you be talking about.

1243
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be saying anything. No, No, I don't that.

1244
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: You'd be cracking jokes. You'd be like, I didn't push

1245
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: her off the cliff. She annoys me, but I didn't

1246
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: do that.

1247
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 3: She's always taken selfies.

1248
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: All right. Back to Brian Coberger. So this is another

1249
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: piece of evidence that I know that the prosecution wants

1250
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: to enter. Coburger wrote in twenty twenty while he was

1251
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: a student at the Sales University of Pennsylvania this is

1252
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: where he got his undergrad degree and criminology, that they

1253
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: wanted to introduce this paper he wrote that shows the

1254
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: defendant's knowledge of crime scenes. First of all, he's a

1255
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: criminology major. Of course, he wrote papers about crime scene

1256
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the twelve page paper entitled it.

1257
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: Was not like he was a theater major and he

1258
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 2: wrote it wrote a script about killing four, you know,

1259
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 2: college students in Idaho.

1260
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, of course he wrote about crime scenes. He's

1261
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: getting a PhD in criminology. I mean that's part of

1262
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: the scope of his education. But the twelve page paper

1263
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: entitled crime Scene Scenario Final used an example of a

1264
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: killing at which a knife was a currently used. The

1265
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: paper discusses the many steps authorities should take to secure

1266
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: and investigate a crime scene, and details the equipment used

1267
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: for crime scene investigation, how to collect evidence, and how

1268
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: to enter a crime scene to avoid contamination, including wearing

1269
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 1: gloves and other protective equipment. He clearly missed the part

1270
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: about leaving behind evidence, though, I feel like he should

1271
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: have focused more on taking your crime scene weapon home

1272
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: right afterwards. Anything that is fiber free, because you don't

1273
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: want to leave fibers and covers the mouth, hair and

1274
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: overall body would be helpful in avoiding crime scene contamination

1275
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: basically because you don't want to leave DNA behind, right.

1276
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: So I guess they want to submit this paper as

1277
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: evidence that he's aware of how to not contaminate a

1278
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: crime scene. But also it is interesting and we didn't

1279
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: talk about this yet because there wasn't. There wasn't And

1280
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: they did confiscate his car and they did the whole

1281
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: thorough check up with nothing. They found nothing. There was

1282
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: no DNA from the from any of the kids, There

1283
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: was no blood, there was no there's nothing. So I

1284
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: don't know if he did some incredible thorough cleaning of

1285
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: the car or or he.

1286
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 3: Wore like a whole suit or something. It dumped.

1287
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 2: It was just completely covered so that there was no

1288
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: That means there was no transferring like a fibers from

1289
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: their house to his car.

1290
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: Right, and he he killed four people with a knife.

1291
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: There's blood everywhere. How did he not get any blood

1292
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: transferred from these killings in this house to the car

1293
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: to the car?

1294
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1295
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: You tell me that.

1296
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1297
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: I can only picture he had something like full blown

1298
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:52,439
Speaker 2: like you know, you know Beekeeper's outfit on, like and then.

1299
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 3: He tossed.

1300
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: That departed where uh yeah, at the end. Oh it's

1301
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: Wahlberg right where he walked to that apartment at the

1302
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: end and he's just covered from bad to do with.

1303
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: A gun in his hand, right yeah. And then Matt

1304
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 2: David's character is like, oh, man, like, I know where

1305
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: this is going.

1306
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: But the only thing is she saw him and he

1307
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: had the mask on. But I don't think she said

1308
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,439
Speaker 1: she said he was dressed in black. It's also dark.

1309
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: It's also four.

1310
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 2: Twenty morning, So I imagine she just saw his eyes

1311
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 2: and then slammed the door or whatever.

1312
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 3: I don't imagine she like, you know, looked him up

1313
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 3: and down.

1314
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: I don't know all. I just can't get past the

1315
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: fact that he stabbed four students and ended up not

1316
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: tracking blood anywhere and not having blood in his car.

1317
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1318
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what the motive would be. It's unclear

1319
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: if Brian Coberger had a motive or knew the victims beforehand.

1320
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: We did talk about how possibly he knew them from

1321
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: going to this restaurant. However, Kaylee Gone called us. His parents,

1322
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: Steven Christie, believe they have proof of a connection, and

1323
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: the minutes after learning Coburger's name, Christy, the mom says,

1324
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: we went online and immediately started googling. They say they

1325
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: discovered digital evidence that showed a tie between Coburger and

1326
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: two of the victims. In an interview with forty eight hours,

1327
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: the Gone Calvis family provided screenshots of an Instagram account

1328
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: they believe belonged to Coburger. Those screenshots include what they

1329
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: say is Coburger's Instagram profile and a list of people

1330
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:23,959
Speaker 1: he was following, including Matti Mogan and Kaylee Gonekalvez. Forty

1331
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: eight hours has not been able to confirm the authenticity

1332
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: of this Instagram account. However, Christy Gone Calvez, who is

1333
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: the mother, says when they attempted to cross reference the

1334
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: accounts of Kaylee, Mattie, Xana, and Ethan, it appeared that

1335
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: that this Coburger account had interacted with Mattie's Instagram. You

1336
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: would go to Mattie's Instagram account and look at her pictures,

1337
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: and he liked them. Christy said, so he was actively

1338
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: looking at the Instagram account. That's something else that I

1339
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: think is interesting that'll come more up a trial was

1340
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 1: whether this was his Instagram account, if they can link

1341
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: it to him in some way to authenticate it, and

1342
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: if so, then he clearly had some kind of obsession.

1343
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, that he found her online. He's

1344
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: met her at the restaurant, she was cute and blonde.

1345
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: He finds her Instagram, He's liking her photos, he's sending

1346
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: her a DM. He probably followed her home from work

1347
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: one day he found out where.

1348
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 2: She lived, Not like he went out on three dates

1349
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 2: and she dumped him and said I want to see

1350
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 2: you and then he got obsessed.

1351
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 3: And killed her.

1352
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like he never even like interactive with he

1353
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 2: never went on a date with her, and he wants

1354
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 2: to kill her.

1355
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 3: Like you're obsessed where you just want to follow him

1356
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 3: and then kill him. Yeah, weird. I mean it's it's

1357
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 3: evil either way, but it's just weird.

1358
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 1: Well, I mean he's a serial killer, so I know

1359
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: he's killer. He's not a serial killer. He killed four people,

1360
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: not a serial killing.

1361
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 3: A serial kill you have to keep repeating the crime

1362
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:45,479
Speaker 3: over and over. So you're saying because he killed four people,

1363
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 3: well then every burglar would be a serial burglar because

1364
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 3: they took more one thing in the house.

1365
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I never thought of it that way.

1366
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll start thinking like idea and you'll get a

1367
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 3: lot fast.

1368
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, he might have killed again, though,

1369
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: but he messed up so many times. Sad he was caught,

1370
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 1: and maybe he went into criminology because he's obsessed with

1371
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: crimes and he wanted to commit the perfect crime.

1372
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe and so and then he saw her.

1373
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess people do go into their career

1374
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 2: like to pursue their career to perfect.

1375
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like if I'm going to go to culinary art school,

1376
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 3: it's because I want to like bake the best pie. Right, yeah,

1377
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:22,919
Speaker 3: so maybe he did.

1378
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: I can't him a picture you baking a pie. I

1379
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: would pay money to watch you bake a pie.

1380
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:28,439
Speaker 3: I can picture you eating a pie.

1381
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for that.

1382
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 3: Pie? You know you like him?

1383
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: I love pie? Yeah, key pie is my favorite. All right.

1384
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: The parents that we were talking about this is Kaylee's

1385
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: parents say the account that they found, this Instagram account

1386
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: of Brian Coburger is no longer active. It disappeared shortly

1387
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: after his arrest. What did he do? Like, how do

1388
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: you do you have access after you're arrested, you have

1389
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: access to get on Instagram and deactivate your account.

1390
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 3: He might deactivated it before. I don't know. Like as

1391
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 3: he got arrested, well he got a ret you have

1392
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 3: one phone call.

1393
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: It's like he can't call Instagram.

1394
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 3: He just logged on his Instagram. Yeah, d x J

1395
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 3: whit out.

1396
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: So let's talk about some of the defense. What's the

1397
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: defense going to say? First of all, without even going

1398
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: through this rundown, I'll tell you the defense is going

1399
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: to use reasonable doubt.

1400
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 3: Because the defense us reasonable doubt. I know that. Sorry, no,

1401
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 3: but I was.

1402
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: You didn't let me explain. Of course, they're going to

1403
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: use reasonable doubt. But I'll tell you they're going to

1404
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 1: use reasonable doubt because there was also blood found on

1405
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: a handrail that they did not test, And there was

1406
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: a glove with blood found outside of the house a

1407
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: couple of days after the murder and they did not test.

1408
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 3: Why were they not test that?

1409
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I am dumbfounded by.

1410
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 3: Oh, this little button on this knife cover, we're gonna test. Yeah,

1411
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 3: but the bloody knife, we don't need to look into that.

1412
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: Not a bloody knife blood.

1413
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the stairway or stairwell or whatever.

1414
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I've read that these two other And also there

1415
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: was DNA found a Maddie's fingernails that come from that

1416
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: did not match coburger. So there was like her DNA

1417
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: and unknown DNA and then another unknown DNA something like that.

1418
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: There's like a three part mixture and that wasn't tested.

1419
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: I believe that wasn't. Well, no, it was because it

1420
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: was unknown. I don't know, but there's the bloody glove

1421
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: and then the blood in the hallway. They did not

1422
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: test and for some reason I did read in some

1423
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: of these affidatas that they said that it was ineligible

1424
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: to be tested in codes. And I couldn't figure out

1425
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 1: why it was ineligible. I don't know. If the sample

1426
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: was too small, or there was some contamination.

1427
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I wonder if they didn't want

1428
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 2: to test it maybe, or maybe they tested it and

1429
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 2: didn't come up as the same, so they just.

1430
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 1: So you're saying they just said it wasn't tested.

1431
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.

1432
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: I thought maybe, and I don't know.

1433
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 3: This is just me.

1434
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: This is me speculating that maybe they didn't want to

1435
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 1: test it, because then if it comes up to someone else,

1436
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: then they have to investigate that person. It takes away

1437
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 1: from Coburger, then it's too convoluted and they have.

1438
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 2: The defense will probably come up with the you you

1439
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 2: didn't look into anything else, You had thousands of blinders,

1440
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 2: only looked at my guy because you had one little

1441
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 2: thing on him, and then that then you directed all

1442
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 2: the evidence towards him, and.

1443
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: We know that happens. We know that happens in a

1444
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: lot of cases where you find a suspect and then

1445
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: they the police does a hardcore go after that suspect

1446
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: to the exclusion of anyone else that could possibly be involved.

1447
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: Defense is going to be like, once you don't look

1448
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 2: at the DNA evidence on the knife cover, and once

1449
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 2: you overlook the my client gazing at the stars twelve times,

1450
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 2: and once you overlook the DMS, and once you overlook

1451
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 2: the fact that he bought a knife eight months prior

1452
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 2: and kept searching after the crime, and he bought this

1453
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 2: scheme mass at Dicks.

1454
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 3: Once you overlook that, you will see that my client

1455
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 3: is innocent. And I urge you to look at the

1456
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 3: facts that make my clients all right.

1457
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: In other news, in this case, which I was interesting,

1458
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: they actually did demolish the house. And I told you

1459
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: this the other day and you said that that's pretty normal, when.

1460
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know it's normal. I think that's probably

1461
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 3: not far fetched.

1462
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, when there's like a mass murder, I mean, hang

1463
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: going to rent that out to their college dents.

1464
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's sickos that would like to.

1465
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 3: Rent it there would be, and then you'd have to

1466
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 3: disclose it right when you sell it.

1467
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 1: Well, I think also maybe they had to demolish it

1468
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: because all these crime scene junkies there. People probably be

1469
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: driving by it all the time, like you, I would love. Yeah,

1470
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: now I went to the Meninda's house, I would drive

1471
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: by out take a road trip.

1472
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 3: That's probably another way. So it's really just a clean slate.

1473
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. The off campus house was demolished on December twenty eight,

1474
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, despite mixed feelings from the victims' families.

1475
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: University officials said they decided to tear down the house

1476
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: during winter break to try to decrease further impact on

1477
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: the students.

1478
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 3: Who live in that area the school owned it.

1479
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gone Calves's family was firmly against knocking down the house,

1480
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: saying doing so would destroy one of the most crucial

1481
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 1: pieces of evidence in the case. For a trial date

1482
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: was even set.

1483
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 3: Oh well, I was just assuming they collected all the

1484
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 3: evidence and they got the green light.

1485
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: Well they did, because I did read that both sides,

1486
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 1: prosecution and defense, both agreed that they could tear the

1487
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 1: house down because they felt as if they had everything

1488
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 1: they needed. I do understand the families thinking that I

1489
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe there's something more than someone. Well, I guessed,

1490
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 1: and now they can never recover it.

1491
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 2: It's better to I guess if I was the parent

1492
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 2: the victim, I'd be like, we, I'd rather preserve it

1493
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 2: just in case, you never know, right, I guess.

1494
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 1: Now they don't have that option exactly. So the two

1495
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 1: surviving roommates is Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortenson, have largely

1496
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: remained silent since the killings. That's because there was a

1497
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 1: gag order on this case. They're not allowed to well.

1498
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are they gonna do? Go on podcasts in time?

1499
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 1: No, they well, they clearly can't talk about it. They

1500
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: also had to move this case. They moved the venue,

1501
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: they moved it out of whatever this area is. It's

1502
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: going to be in Boise, which is I'm not sure

1503
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: exactly how far away. But I read that it doesn't

1504
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: really even make that much of a difference, because I

1505
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 1: think they did a poll as to how many people

1506
01:09:58,000 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: have heard about the case and knew about it.

1507
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 3: Everyone know about especially in Idaho.

1508
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: It wasn't I'm moving in to Boise didn't make that

1509
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: big of a difference. So jury selection is going to

1510
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: be challenging as well, because I don't know how you're

1511
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 1: going to find a jury that hasn't already had some

1512
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,760
Speaker 1: kind of preconceived notion that Brian, especially with.

1513
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: Us doing this podcast, everyone in Idaho listens to us,

1514
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 2: they do, and now they're gonna they're.

1515
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: Going to know what we know and what we think

1516
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: we know.

1517
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 3: Right, we've clearly cracked the case.

1518
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: We've cracked the case. We don't care about the other

1519
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: DNA out there was Dan. Yes, it's he's a vegan.

1520
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: He has bushy eyebrows. His name is Burger, Yes, and

1521
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,639
Speaker 1: he drives around at night twelve stars at the stars

1522
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 1: on a dead end stream.

1523
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 2: I'm a criminal. I'm a criminology major with a uh

1524
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 2: A minor in astrology.

1525
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 3: Exactly, I guess. So.

1526
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 1: The two girls wrote letters to their lost friends, which

1527
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: were read aloud by a passer During a December twenty

1528
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 1: second service for Kernodle. The two girls got matching tattoos

1529
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 1: to memorialize their four friends, with initials of the victims'

1530
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: names on their arms along with angel wings. Many people

1531
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 1: blame Mortensen for waiting to call nine one one until

1532
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 1: the next day, since she saw coburger in the house.

1533
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if it would have made

1534
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 1: any difference. I don't think any of them like we're

1535
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: alive for long, do you know what I mean? Like

1536
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 1: if she called nine to one one when she saw

1537
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: someone in the house, would that have made a difference

1538
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,440
Speaker 1: what they have and they have survived.

1539
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 3: I think probably, possibly not.

1540
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,560
Speaker 2: But I think it goes back to earlier in our conversation,

1541
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 2: which is that's probably normal response to call the police

1542
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 2: right away, Yeah, instead of checking your LinkedIn account.

1543
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it is a normal response. But then again,

1544
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 1: I've never been in that situation, so I'm trying not

1545
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: to judge, but I just I can't get past not

1546
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: being able to get a hold of your roommates, hearing

1547
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 1: weird noises and seeing a masked man in your house,

1548
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: and you don't call nine to one one until the

1549
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: next day when a friend comes over. And I think

1550
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 1: the friend came over and actually went to check on

1551
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: the roommates and found them dead, and that's why they

1552
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: finally called nine to one one. I'm confused. That's why

1553
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to the trial, because I feel like

1554
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: a lot of good, a better gape, there'll be a

1555
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: better timeline and better details, and they're clearly going to testify,

1556
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 1: and they're going to talk about what they talked about

1557
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 1: with their parents and what they were doing on social

1558
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 1: media and what their mind was during that time period.

1559
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:25,719
Speaker 1: So to me, that's really interesting. Many some even suspect

1560
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 1: that Mortenson and Funk, that's Bethany and Dylan were involved

1561
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: in the murder. That's a lot of people online, you know,

1562
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 1: those online slus like to to learn all this stuff

1563
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: and then speculate that maybe the roommates were involved and

1564
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 1: that's why they didn't call nine one one. I personally,

1565
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: from reading everything that I've read and going through everything,

1566
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case. I think they just

1567
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 1: made bad decisions, and I think maybe they were overly intoxicated,

1568
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:53,600
Speaker 1: and maybe that I don't thinkge maybe she questioned what

1569
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,799
Speaker 1: she saw and thought I'll sound stupid if I'm.

1570
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 2: Wrong or something. I don't think it sounds I don't

1571
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 2: think it changed. Just really any of the necessary facts

1572
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 2: to determine whether he was guilty or not.

1573
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: Right, Well, do you have any other questions, because we

1574
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 1: have come to the end of the Brian Coburger case

1575
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 1: and the Idaho murders. Again, I'm very interested in the

1576
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: trial and hopefully we'll follow along.

1577
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 3: Well, I have a question. Is he in custody? Yes? Okay,

1578
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 3: no bail?

1579
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. So anyway, the trial will

1580
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: be interesting, a lot more details will come out, obviously,

1581
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: the roommates will testify, the family members I know family

1582
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: members are expected to testify as well, even Brian's family members.

1583
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because to explain the Amazon account, right, because

1584
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 2: did you purchase a knife?

1585
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 3: Okay, did you purchase a knife?

1586
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 1: Okay?

1587
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 3: Again, it leaves him. It's the only one that purchases right.

1588
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: All right. Thanks for listening to legally Brunette. We appreciate it.

1589
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: And if you haven't listened to all our episodes, you

1590
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,719
Speaker 1: can go back and listen to them. And thanks again.

1591
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: We appreciate it.

1592
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 3: Thank you,