1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland Audio in 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 2: Parents will often say to me, out of the incredibly 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 2: great intentions, I just don't mention this and that they're 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: going to have to get Usually it's shots, right, number 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 2: one question? 7 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: Child? 8 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 3: Do I have to get a shot? 9 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, he asked me. Last night. My son was 10 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: up last night with an earache. I think he slept. 11 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: He's got one big floppy year and I think he 12 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: slept on it like folded. He's like, I have an 13 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: ear infection. I was like, well, if you wake up 14 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: and there's inner ear pain, we'll definitely have to get 15 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: that checked down. He's like, oh, I have to get 16 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: a shot. I was like, no, they will have to 17 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: just look in your ear. But yeah. So most people's mode, 18 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: which is mine too, is we're just not going to 19 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: mention the shot until we get there. Hello, everybody, Welcome 20 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib. Every MoMA out here listening knows 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: how shitty it is to take your kid to the 22 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: pediatrician and give them shots. I don't know. It's so traumatizing, 23 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: and I find it to be rare that there's like 24 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: a few mom friends I have whose kids are not 25 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: affected by it, and this woman who we have on 26 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: as a guest today. It's not only about helping kids 27 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: get through just the yearly shots and vaccinations. This amazing 28 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: doctor Jody Thomas is dealing in this whole arena that 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: I didn't even know existed. It's about helping kids with 30 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: medical anxiety. How not to get freaked out, how to 31 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: manage pain for children during annual visits to the doctor, 32 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: let alone more chronic and really complicated illnesses and things 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: that kids have to go through. How to handle pokes 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: with needles, broken bones, which y'all I just went through 35 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: Albe just broke his arm, surgeries, and like I said, 36 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: chronic and lingering pain. Doctor Jody Thomas is a license 37 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: clinical Psychologists and specialist and pediatric medical Illness and Trauma. 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: She has twenty plus years of experience working with children, families, 39 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: and adults dealing with medical illness and trauma, depression, and anxiety. 40 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: Jody is the founder and executive director of the Meg Foundation, 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: which is an organization dedicated to giving kids, parents and 42 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: caregivers science backed superpowers to help manage the pain experience 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: and fend off any freak out monsters in the process. 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: This is so usually helpful this topic today, Jody, I 45 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: am so stoked you're here. Welcome to Katie's crib. First 46 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: and foremost, I love everything you are doing. I didn't. Sadly, 47 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: I'm probably like all the people you work with, where 48 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: it is not known that there are options now to 49 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: help our kids with pain management, from as small as 50 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: their annual checkups to more complicated illnesses and chronics, diseases 51 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: and stuff. First and foremost, can you tell us about 52 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: the Meg Foundation, what it is and how you started it? 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 3: Sure? 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: The Meg Foundation is the nonprofit that I run that 55 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: is dedicated to empowering kids and families around pain and 56 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: medical anxiety. So I'm a clinical psychologist. I've been doing 57 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 2: this for twenty five years now. 58 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: Just you look good. 59 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 3: Thank you so much wow for that. 60 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: And really what it was about was knowing that the 61 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: practice of pain management is about thirty to forty years 62 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: behind the research, which is just crazy. And as I 63 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: tell people, you don't need me, you need what I know. 64 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: We need to be able to kind of use technology 65 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: and design to make sure that parents have what they 66 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: need to be able to protect their kid and protect 67 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: their families because it's a lot more than a difficult 68 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: five minutes at the doctor's office. 69 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: It's that they never want to go oh, and it's like, oh, 70 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: my goodness, if we just figured out a way to 71 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: manage the pain and the anxiety, then maybe they it 72 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't be so traumatic every time there's a checkup or 73 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: a sickness or a common cold like anything like that. 74 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: Exactly, or it becomes I'm sure we all know that 75 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 2: adult that we worry about that quote unquote doesn't do doctors, 76 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: and they don't do doctors because of that preventable stuff 77 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 2: that happened when they were four years old, and they 78 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: become people like my own brother in law who dies 79 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 2: of stage four cancer because he waits six months to 80 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: get a blood test because he scared of needles. And 81 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: I wish that story was unusual, and it's just. 82 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: Not five men right now that I know, and one 83 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: family member of mine the same. He had a lump 84 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: terrified of doctors. You never ever went to doctors. He 85 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: died of a cancer that was very treatable. 86 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. 87 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry sorry to hear that, and I know 88 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: that happened, so we knew that happened every day, and 89 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: so that really became that mission of I tell people 90 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 2: is tired of playing cleanup, and we need to play prevention. 91 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: And so really lucky to have these amazing experts from 92 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: all over the world and we come together and find 93 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 2: a really cool and creative ways to get these tools 94 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: into the hands of people win and where they need them. 95 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 2: My turning point came when my daughter was in the 96 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: nick You for twenty seven days and I found myself 97 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: on the other side. I've been in Nicky's my entire career. 98 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: Turns out really not so fun on the other side 99 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: of that deal, right, not surprising, but like our pain 100 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 2: management for premies, what I had to fight for her 101 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: to get, knowing that poor pain management then causes depression, anxiety, 102 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: chronic pain for her the rest of her life. When 103 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: we're not we're damaging those not yet fully cooked neurological systems. 104 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: And as I looked around that nick You, knowing that 105 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 2: literally these other moms cared for their babies as much 106 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: as I desperately loved mine, I just happened to know 107 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: what I should be fighting for, that there was something 108 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: to fight for and how to fight for. 109 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: It that there's options which we'll get into, but we 110 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: don't even know that, like, oh, there's like topical numbing 111 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: cream that can help with IVS or help with needles 112 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: and things like that. Where's the name Meg come from? 113 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: Meg comes from a dear friend and colleague of mine 114 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: who was the one who pushed me to start the 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 2: foundation because I've been honestly complaining about this for years, 116 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: Like I was running the Stanford pain and rehab program 117 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: at the time. We were talking about all this, and 118 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: when I moved from the Bay Area to Denver and 119 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: imploded life and resettling things, she turned to me and said, 120 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: so are you going to do what you're supposed to do? 121 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 3: Are you going to get too busy again? 122 00:06:58,440 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: What a great event? 123 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 3: Right? 124 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: So Meg had this amazing ability to call you out 125 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: in very helpful, productive and loving ways. And so as 126 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: we were going through the process of starting the foundation, 127 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: and she was actually going through cancer treatment at that time, 128 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: we were desperately trying to find a name and couldn't 129 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: find anything that fits, and we had just found out 130 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: that her treatment it failed and she wasn't going to survive. 131 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: And I was like, you know, I think it's just 132 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: supposed to be the meg Foundation. I think this is 133 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: what we're supposed to do. 134 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: What a enlightened just a big life moment where it 135 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: all just goes me exactly. Can you tell us what 136 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: are the three types of pain? There is procedural, acute, 137 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: and chronic. Can you explain that first? 138 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 139 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: So, Procedural pain is what typically is almost. 140 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 3: All of our first experiences with pain. 141 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: This is needles, This is even blood pressure cuffs and 142 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: things like that. So the discomfort that's associated with any 143 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: sort of medical procedure, So you can tell why this 144 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: is often the source of where we see the seeds 145 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: of medical anxiety happen. And then there's acute pain, which 146 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: is just our most straightforward it's injury, broken bones, broken bones, surgery, 147 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 2: stepped on a lego. 148 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: Like I sure all of that, Sure, a beasting. 149 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: A beasting, all of that. And then chronic pain is 150 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: by definition, pain that lasts more than six months. But 151 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: really what we're talking about is that pain that sticks 152 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: around much longer than it should. And one of the 153 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: really big misconceptions. I ran the chronic pain program at 154 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 2: the rehab program at Stanford, and everyone would always say 155 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: to me, like, kids don't have chronic pain. I'm like, 156 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: actually they do. So this is what people are really 157 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: blown away by. But when we put in headaches, stomach aches, 158 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: body pain, all of those things, one in four kids 159 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: will have chronic pain, and a lot of them have 160 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: that even more frequently, and we see that with more distress. So, 161 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: like the rates of chronic pain in everyone, including children, 162 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: totally skyrocketed during the pandemic, which wasn't surprising. Chronic stress, procedural, acute. 163 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: And chronic. 164 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 2: It's a biological, psychological, and social experience. 165 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: That's not weird. 166 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: It's not odd. It is how it is all the time. 167 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: So when people say, oh, it's all in your head, 168 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: which is used to dismiss pain, technically speaking, they're right 169 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: because we do create a pain experience in our head, 170 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 2: but not in a way that means you're crazy. Like 171 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: my ultimate example, all the time, as they said, look, 172 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: have you ever noticed that hurts a lot worse to 173 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: stub your toe when you're in a bad mood than 174 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: when you're in a good mood. 175 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: Totally, So now. 176 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: It's extrapolate that to what it's like to get a 177 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: medical procedure or you're in an urgent care. You are 178 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: with your kid who broke an arm or you're in 179 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: chronic pain, that those aspects of the psychological and the 180 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: physical and the social part of that experience are a 181 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: huge but somehow we just don't really like talk about that, 182 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: even though we have, like again, decades of research. 183 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: Do this okay? So for the parents listening whose kids 184 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: fly off the handle for the procedural pain management, what 185 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: information should we best arm ourselves with the next doctor's appointment? 186 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 2: Parents will often say to me, out of the incredibly 187 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: great intentions, which as a mom of two I totally get, 188 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: is I just don't mention this and that they're gonna 189 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: have to get Usually it's shots, right, number one question? 190 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 3: Child? Do I have to get a shot? Oh? 191 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, he asked me. Last night. My son was up 192 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: last night with an earache. I think he slept He's 193 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: got one big floppy ear and I think he slept 194 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: on it like folded. He's like, I have a ear infection. 195 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: I was like, well, if you wake up and there's 196 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: inner ear pain, we'll definitely have to get that checked down. 197 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I have to get a shot, And 198 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: I was like, no, they will have to just look 199 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: in your ear. But yeah. So most people's mode, which 200 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: is mine too, is we're just not going to mention 201 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: the shot until we get there. 202 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: Yes, So when I say that, I said, okay, cool, 203 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 2: So let's think about this for a sec. Picture, you're 204 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: like your biggest work meeting you've ever had, only no 205 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: one tells you what's going to happen until two minutes. 206 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: So that's a fucking bad idea. Why are we right, Well, 207 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: because we don't want to deal. 208 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 2: Actually, here's the deal. We don't know how to deal, 209 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 2: and that's really your issue. We think about stress as 210 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: a general concept. It is the difference between what we 211 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: perceive is the needs of the situation and our ability 212 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 2: to meet the needs of that situation. I don't know 213 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: what the hell to do anyway, Like why am. 214 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 3: I going to bring it up? 215 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: But we have to remember that just like with that 216 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: big work meeting, it's not that you're not going to 217 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: feel anxious, it's what you're going to do prepare to 218 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: cope and deal with that anxiety. And that's really where 219 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 2: we have to go with our kids. Parents will say 220 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: I don't want my kid to feel anxious. I'm like, 221 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: that's not the way humans work. 222 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: That's welcome to life, too, Welcome to life. 223 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 2: Yes, it's like our biggest school in general with our 224 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: kids is to help them figure out how to tolery, uncertainty, discomfort, 225 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 2: and anxiety. And it's very much that model and say, look, 226 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 2: we're going to prepare so like with your son, he 227 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: says that last night and again, lucky, we don't have 228 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: a shot. We're just gonna have to look at the 229 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 2: air and check it out. 230 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 3: Right. 231 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 2: It's to say, well, you know what, Bud, we don't, 232 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: but if we do, remember we have all of our plan, 233 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 2: we have our coping skills, we know what we're gonna 234 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 2: do to make that poke be totally fine and okay. 235 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: So it's about preparing kids and preparing ourselves because not shocking. 236 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: The largest predictor of the kid's distress is the parent's distress. 237 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: And it's opening because moms will turn out to me 238 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: and said, cool, you're saying it's my fault. I'm like, no, 239 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 2: I'm saying, congratulations. You have a good attachment to your child, right, 240 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: you care, you care a lot, you care, and they 241 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: care about you and they pick up on you. That's 242 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: called good attachment. Nice work. 243 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: So you think a few days in advance. We say, hey, Bud, 244 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: we have your annual checkup coming up. There's going to 245 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: be a poke. It's going to be one second. I 246 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: get them all the time, And let's talk about how 247 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: we can best support you. Do you want to bring 248 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: U stuff? Like what are the options? 249 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 3: Yes, So we do a couple of things. 250 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 2: One you're pointing out really the importance of language, right, 251 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 2: so you'll hear you or poke because shot is immediately like, 252 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: there's an automatic response. People have the word shot, needle. 253 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 2: And so when we use your like poke or we're 254 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: gonna put some medicine in your arm, or we're gonna 255 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: put your medicine in your leg. And even when we 256 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: talk about kids, how we frame it right. So what 257 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: I'll said to my kids, I'm like, look, we get 258 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: to go get some magic medicine at the doctor. 259 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 3: It's going to help you stay healthy. 260 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: That's great. Never phrased it that way, right. 261 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: That we get to go do this, which sounds very different. 262 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: And again not to sugarcoat, everyone's like, we are you lying. 263 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 2: I'm like, no, no, believe me. I am all about 264 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 2: being super honest with children. 265 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: But it also is a privilege, like you're phrasing it 266 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: in the way like we're getting magic medicine from years 267 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: of studying so that you don't get measles and you 268 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: don't get I mean, I wouldn't say this to him, 269 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: but I'm understanding you might. 270 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 3: Actually kids want to know. 271 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 2: You're like, this is actually super cool. 272 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 3: Check this out. 273 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: There is a medicine that used to be kids would 274 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: get really sick. So your child's at the best, at 275 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: the perfect age for this because he has a great 276 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 2: use of language, right, he can understand. He's super interested 277 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: in learning and figuring things out. And you're like, Okay, 278 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: this is the coolest. We're going to talk about some 279 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: ways that those pokes don't even need to bother you. 280 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: Let's make a game plan and let's figure out what 281 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: you want to do, because remember that choice is power. 282 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: Like they don't have a choice to get a poke. 283 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: You know, if we've decided as parents that this is 284 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: important and healthy, but they we can do a lot 285 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: of choices, and kids love choice and power. Right, this 286 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: what helps it? Right, we know this if it's putting 287 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: on your shoes. 288 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: Going to bed, it's like, how many of you get 289 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: two books and one song? It's like, yes, God, and 290 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: which book do you want? 291 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 3: Right? 292 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: And so as long as you get to choose the book, 293 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: then we've given you a sense of power and control 294 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: over but you're still going. 295 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: To bed dude, right, right. 296 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: But when we have power control and we get to practice, 297 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: be like, hey, you know what I learned some really 298 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: cool ways for you to sit. Do you want to 299 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: stall on my lap? Do you want to sit this way? 300 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: Do you want to sit straddling me? And that's what 301 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: we have all these guides to how to do that 302 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: because one of the biggest mistakes that we will see 303 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: repeated on repeat is holding kids down for pokes and procedures. 304 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: It is quite literally a recipe for medical trauma and 305 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: it happens all the time. And there's a lot of 306 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 2: reasons for that. But if I am going to empower 307 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: moms and parents to do one thing, it is never 308 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 2: let someone hold your kid down for a medical procedure 309 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: unless you plan on finding and paying someone like me 310 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: later to take care of that. 311 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: That's that's that's a therapy. So really we should be 312 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: putting them on our lap, holding them in a hug. 313 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: Yes, And there are ways to do that. Because you'll 314 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: hear pushback from providers sometime be like, well, I have 315 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: to keep them safe. This is the only way to 316 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: keep them safe. And that's definitely the knowledge that they 317 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: were given, but it's also the research would well establish 318 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: it that's not true. You can use your arms and 319 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: your body to help keep their body still enough to 320 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: get the pope safely, but they are comforted by your 321 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: physical presence. You know that same feeling. We love that 322 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: hug that we get. It's releasing oxytocin and all sorts 323 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: of beautiful things. We get to slow down our own breathing, 324 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: and your kid will unconsciously follow that. And you're sitting 325 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: there talking with them, right You're like, hey, Bud, I'm 326 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: right here. All good, We're going to be done in 327 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: a sec. I've got you excellent, nice work. You're being 328 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: so brave. 329 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 3: This is so cool. Check it out where we're going 330 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 3: to go get ice cream? After all? Oh, we're already done. 331 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: That's awesome. What flavor ice. 332 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: Cream are we going to get? We do our mom 333 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: instinct or parent instinct. You know how to comfort your kid. 334 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 2: You do it all the time. But somehow often we 335 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: walk into that doctor's office and we feel like we're 336 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: not allowed to do that and we are, and so 337 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: comfort positioning and practice saying that at home, be like, 338 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: check this out. This is how we're going to do it. 339 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 2: Do you want to practice on your stuffy? Why don't 340 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 2: you show me on your teddy bear how you're going 341 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 2: to do this. Medical play is fantastic, and you remember 342 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: that kids. We work out our stuff through talking. Kids 343 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: work their stuff out through play, and when they can 344 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: sit there and play, they get a greater sense of control. 345 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: And you're both walking in there knowing what you want 346 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 2: to do. You're like, great, should we do numbing cream. 347 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: Let's get numbing cream and explaining to kids what that does. 348 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 2: We put this on your skin and you don't even 349 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: have to feel the poke. 350 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: It's amazing. 351 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: Why is numbing cream not offered? I don't understand. 352 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: Oh, believe me. 353 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: It's spent decades struggling with this. It is absolutely it's 354 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 2: the best practice recommendation for every major medical and pain 355 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: organization in the world. It's absolutely the best practice and 356 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: no one does it. So it is a number one thing, 357 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: and it is when the powers it be that sort 358 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 2: of run the medical world at this point, when they 359 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: were in medical school in like the seventies and eighties, 360 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: they were quite literally taught that kid's pain didn't matter. 361 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: If I had had to open heart surgery. 362 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: As an infant and I'm forty eight years. 363 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 2: Old, they would have paralyzed but not anesthetized me. 364 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you kidding. 365 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 3: I'm not kidding. 366 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: So the belief at that point was the anesthesia was 367 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: really dangerous and which is insane we know now, and 368 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 2: the mortality rate was crazy because we literally wouldn't anesthetize 369 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: these babies. I'm like, yeah, what, Yes, they were literally taught, 370 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 2: and they were taught especially for babies. When we know 371 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: that those little infants, two things are happening. One, you're 372 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: traumatizing the parent and that carries over to those neck shots. 373 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 2: But two, we're damaging that not yet fully cooked neurological 374 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 2: system and we are creating more pain. Later on, the 375 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: thought was like, well, if they can't remember it, it 376 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. 377 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, then it's not going to matter. That's not true. 378 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: No, at one hundred percent matters, and that matters a lot, 379 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 2: and so being able to manage it from the beginning 380 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 2: is this incredible gift. 381 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: Do you recommend parents like bringing their own numbing cream. 382 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Like you can always call and be like, Hi, 383 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: do you do this? If I had to place some 384 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: money on the bet, they'd be like, no, ever do that. 385 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 3: It's not a big deal. 386 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 2: It's fine, and you're like all evidence to the contrary. Actually, 387 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: but it's really easy to get over the counter LIGHTI 388 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 2: king cream. You can now get a light on. 389 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 3: Go. Yeah, it's really not that hard. 390 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: One of my best friend's sons is going through like 391 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: a lot of testing and things like that and has 392 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: had like multiple MRIs and spinal taps and and Andrew 393 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: Grahams and a lot of things like that, And honestly, 394 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: the worst part is him getting the IV. It's he's 395 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: a very active boy. So he's screaming doing backbends and 396 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: she's holding him and they're trying to get this thing 397 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: in place. And I don't understand it because my son 398 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: was put out for nine cavities. Yep, yeah, so funny. 399 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: He had nine cavities in four and a half. And 400 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: don't worry. We have a whole episode of Katie's Crib 401 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: with awesome dentists. I've learned a lot since that rodeo, 402 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: but it was so great because what they did in 403 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: the dentist's office was they actually put him out with 404 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: a mask thing EF mask first and then the IV. 405 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: So my son had no idea what that was happening. 406 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: And then his school even went so far is his 407 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: school has very progressive nursery school, but they have all 408 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: of these doctor kids, and when someone has a procedure 409 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: coming up, they spend weeks leading up doing play with 410 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: the mask that was going to go on his face, 411 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: so that when the mask was put on his face, 412 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: it was not the first time. He's not not vera. No, 413 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: he had been playing that at school for a while, 414 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: but he had already practiced with the mask and had 415 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: played a lot. But he was put out and also 416 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: not woken up until the IV was out. So I 417 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: don't understand why this is going on. 418 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: Okay, So I just want to break down a few 419 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 2: of what your school and what you guys did so 420 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: brilliantly with that. That is one of the number one 421 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: things that I tell parents to ask for. I'm like, 422 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 2: if we're gonna do being gassed, do it first so 423 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: we don't have to go through the entire IV process. 424 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: There are ways we can prepare them for that, no problem. 425 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: But why if we don't have to have do and 426 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 2: let's do the mask and to practice with the mask, 427 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: because the amount of mask phobia that I've treated, because remember, 428 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: we're going in, we're uncertain and we're scared, and what 429 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: your school did gorgeously is prepare him where this is 430 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: what's going to happen. This is what's going to happen next, 431 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 2: we're gonna put this thing and it's the coolest. You 432 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 2: just breathe and all sending to go to sleep. 433 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: We take powers and he was asleep in ten seconds. 434 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so like your friend, that story is the 435 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: reason we started the foundation because we know that those 436 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 2: first times when she was going through that terrifying process 437 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 2: of diagnosis and when those first things happened, whatever that was, 438 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: it's we're getting all these procedures and because everyone is 439 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: scared and terrified, now all of that is associated, right, 440 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: So that IV just isn't about that IV. It's about 441 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 2: everything that was happening the first time he got that IV, 442 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: and how scared everybody was and how everyone felt that 443 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: need to hold what's down and to restrict and so 444 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: there's so much associated with that. And just let you 445 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 2: know there are ways to undo that. But this is 446 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: a cleanup situation. 447 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: Again, so you're spending all of your time cleaning up. Yes, 448 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: is making small changes that we could change it from 449 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: the jump. 450 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: From the moment we start, and that's what we want 451 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 2: to be to do. But when we go in and 452 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 2: we can help, okay, great, we're going to do this 453 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: process and proteachure. So distraction is one of the most 454 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 2: powerful things. Like every single one of us as a parent. 455 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: Pro level distractors all day. 456 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 2: But it's like you're like trying to get your kids 457 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: attention when they're staring at that video or super into 458 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 2: the game. An entire brass band could be going through 459 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 2: the room and they don't notice, right, And if we 460 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: can take that thing, that's so annoying when you're trying 461 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: to get them to put on their shoes and get 462 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: out the door. But it's unbelievably powerful when it comes 463 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 2: to sitting there and that focus of attention, they truly 464 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 2: aren't hearing you. 465 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: So is that like a you put on a show 466 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: while they're getting it? Is that? Yeah? 467 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 468 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: Like this nurser doctor is really good at their job. 469 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 2: They're going to take care of it, but it's not 470 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 2: that fun. To pay attention to that. Let's figure out 471 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: what you want to pay attention to to help you 472 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 2: feel safe and calm. So do you want to watch 473 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 2: a show? And then the more specific we get, do 474 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 2: you want to watch Bluee? Do you want to watch 475 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 2: Peppa Pig? Great, let's make sure we have that download 476 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 2: to the phone and that it's ready and that remember 477 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 2: that it's the build up that's problematic. So we get 478 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 2: to sit here and while we spend most of our 479 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: lives trying to get kids off of our. 480 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: Screens, Yeah, this is when we need it. 481 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, when we're sitting in the waiting room of the 482 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 2: doctor's office or waiting for that, we're like, great, let's 483 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: watch Bluey and remember, Okay, we got our plan, you 484 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: got your numbing cream. On vibration, there's an amazing device 485 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: called the buzzy Bee that's really great for that. Vibration 486 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 2: is so fantastic. It's literally just vibrates, Okay, Like it's 487 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: just vibration and you put it on the skin. So basically, again, 488 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: pain happens in our brain when we're using vibration. You're 489 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: just putting this vibrating thing on our skin and it 490 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: creates this traffic jam of signals on your neurological system. 491 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 2: So simply that pain signal doesn't get through. 492 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: That's a great idea. Geez, we should be doing that 493 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: for shots too. Yeah, how do we support our kids? 494 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: Let's move on to the next one with the pain, 495 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: which is like the be staying and the broken bone. 496 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: So you've ever seen like a toddler fall like face 497 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 2: plant and then they look at you. They're looking at 498 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 2: you to be like, how am I supposed to feel 499 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 2: about this? And am I safe? 500 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 3: And okay? 501 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,719 Speaker 2: So that difference that are we harm are we in danger? 502 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 2: So one is being able to remember that pain in 503 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 2: itself is a warning signal. It's telling us something is 504 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 2: wrong or may be wrong, and that we should check 505 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: it out. So if we step on a beat and 506 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 2: it hurts good, we should know that there's a bee 507 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 2: stinger in there. 508 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: Thing. So it's broken arm. 509 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 2: You're like, how cool is it that your body knew 510 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: how to keep you safe and tell us that your 511 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 2: bone is broken. So now it can tell us that 512 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: so when we go to the doctor and we get 513 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: it fixed, so we know that we have to do 514 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 2: to keep your body safe and okay. But here's the 515 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: cool part. We know that now, so we don't need 516 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: that signal anymore. So let's figure out what we want 517 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: to do to turn that signal down right and okay, cool? 518 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: And also it's even tricks, like when we break the 519 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: arm is to rub the body, like if we break 520 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 2: our wrist, then rubbing up at the shoulder. Remember that 521 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 2: signal has to go from our wrist and travel up our. 522 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: Arm into our brain. 523 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 2: And so one of those things is rubbing that spot 524 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 2: in between where the trauma is and your brain. You 525 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: are creating alternate sensation. Also when we do and that's 526 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 2: similar like when we're holding our hand or when we're 527 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 2: doing that is to say, hey, don't you notice how 528 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: it feels you feel how warm my hand is? Do 529 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 2: you feel me rubbing you? When we focus our attention, 530 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 2: our focus of attention is one of the most important 531 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 2: components to our pain experience. And so in every person 532 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: who's ever sat there and at the end of the 533 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 2: day you got a bruise and you have no idea 534 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 2: where it came from. This happens to your kids all 535 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 2: the time. You have one example, the kids, you're like, 536 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: I don't even know where that came from. Now some 537 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: tell it's I'm like, look, you were having so much 538 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: fun and you were so focused on something else that 539 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: you didn't even notice that your body got damaged enough 540 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 2: to get a bruise. And that's because your body was 541 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 2: safe and okay, and your brain knew that and you 542 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 2: were like, yeah, we don't need to we're paying attention 543 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: to this. So do you think if your brother or 544 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: sister came up and hit you hard enough to get 545 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: a bruise, would would that hurt? 546 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, stop stop. 547 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: Everything, we go to everything, we go to hell right, Yeah, 548 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 2: but it's the same tissue damage, right, That biological piece 549 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 2: is one hundred percent the same. It is our focus 550 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 2: of attention and the meaning we've assigned to it that 551 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 2: totally changes it. 552 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 3: And in that. 553 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: Moment when your kid gets that steps on the bee, 554 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 2: breaks the arm, is you get to be that person 555 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: defining it. You're like, oh my goodness, you know what. 556 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 2: You're right, but that is a big one. We're gonna 557 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: have to go to the dock and get that checked 558 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 2: out to make sure your body is safe and okay, cool, 559 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: let's figure out the ways you can help yourself feel 560 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 2: better and calm. 561 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 3: Why we do that? 562 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: So let's rub, we can watch a video, we can 563 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 2: do those things. But your common response because that anxiety 564 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: is are we safe and okay? And the truth is 565 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: even if they break an arm, you're gonna go the doctor. 566 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: It's not gonna be a good time. But they're generally 567 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 2: safe and no, okay, right, You're like, we've got a 568 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: course of action. 569 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 3: You're gonna be cool. 570 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And also that whole idea of turning it into 571 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 2: that curiosity and adventure, like, Okay, this is awesome because. 572 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: You're probably loved a cast more than an entire world, 573 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: like the color watching it go on, It wasn't something 574 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: to all, But. 575 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: It becomes scary if we are acting scared and instead 576 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 2: being like, Okay, this is amazing, dude, check it out. 577 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 3: We get to pick a color. 578 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: He was scared when he was like, how are they 579 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: when they get it off? Is it a saw this, 580 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: that and the other thing? And so I was, you 581 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: know what, but I'm going to do some research and 582 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: show you some videos of kids getting their cast off. 583 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: And I found some videos of kids like hysterical laughing 584 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: because it like tickled. 585 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 2: It tickles, and like the vibration actually ticked. 586 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they showed a guy actually using the machine 587 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: and like putting it on bare skin and how it 588 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: did nothing, and then my son was totally fine. 589 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: Okay, so brilliant, And Lana lakes one, I want to 590 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: point out again highlight a couple of amazing things you 591 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: did there. One, when we do not know the answer, 592 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: it is a perfect and good thing to say, you 593 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 2: know what, dude, I don't know, let me check that out. 594 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: But I know it's gonna be saying okay, let me 595 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: get back to you. And we do have to circle back. 596 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: But when we're thrown off by an answer that we 597 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 2: don't know, it is really good to be like, you 598 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: know what, I really want to answer that. Let me 599 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 2: look into it and I'm going to get back to you. 600 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 3: Okay. 601 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: So that is a great strategy. We don't have to 602 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 2: answer every scary, big question immediately. And the second was 603 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 2: it's about expectation. If you guys both came in in 604 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: a couple days before you practice, you got your game plan, 605 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 2: you got your thing. And then when their anxiety starts 606 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: to peak and you're like, you know what, bad, I know, 607 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 2: no one loves it. Remember we got our game plan. 608 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: This is going to be awesome. You're going to get 609 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 2: to prove to yourself how we can make this no 610 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: big deal. You and I we're in this together. 611 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 3: We got this. 612 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: How do we best support our kids in the more 613 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: chronic pain? I don't think I've faced that yet, yasol. 614 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: So, chronic pain is tough because it really a lot 615 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 2: of it. First of all, you have to establish hurt 616 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: versus harm. So when things are hurting, is there something 617 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: actually wrong? Like when a arm breaks. An arm is broken, 618 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 2: we know there's a bone, we know there's a problem. 619 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 3: We know it's kind of get fixed. 620 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: With chronic pain, like chronic abdominal pain and chronic headaches, 621 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 2: we do want to go to our doc. We do 622 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 2: want to get that general work up. Is there anything 623 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: going on that needs attention, that needs something to happen. 624 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 2: Is there some sort of intervention that's going to need 625 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: to occur? Is this telling us something important? Is the 626 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 2: original intent of pain happening? Like it's a warning? The 627 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 2: problem is a lot of the warning's just we're done 628 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: and we don't need it anymore, And why are we 629 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: still dealing the signal itself? That pain itself becomes the 630 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: problem rather than it actually. 631 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 3: Signaling something that's wrong. 632 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: But even when we're talking about something like Crohn's disease 633 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: or IBS or chronic abdominal pain, those are obviously very physical, 634 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 2: real things. Like we're not saying that psychological interventions mean 635 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 2: the pain isn't real. Well, it's one hundred percent real. 636 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: All pain is real, but these things are going to 637 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: be the ways that you're going to feel better. So 638 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: it also means not giving into the pain all the time, 639 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: and that is a really difficult thing as a parent. 640 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 3: So if your kid has. 641 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 2: The flu, sticking them on the couch, letting them watch 642 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 2: endless TV and bringing them soup is a great plan. 643 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: It's finite. 644 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 3: It's exactly. 645 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 2: It is finite when we're talking about chronk abdominal pain 646 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,239 Speaker 2: or chronic pain. At some point when we determine this 647 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 2: is going on and it's going to keep on going 648 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 2: on that when we're doing that, we're actually prolonging that 649 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: experience because instead of being able to say, you know, 650 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 2: when kids would say to me, well it hurts when 651 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 2: I'm at school, I'm like, does it hurt at home? 652 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 2: And I'm like yes, I'm like them, we're going to school. 653 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 2: Because the truth is that functioning is going to come 654 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,239 Speaker 2: back before pain relief because your body has had an 655 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 2: idea that I have to stop functioning and wait for 656 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: the pain to go away. But with most chronic pain, 657 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: it's not gonna go away until we start functioning. 658 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: Got it. 659 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 2: And again, like your broken arm, if it still hurts, 660 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 2: do not throw the ball or do not do things right. 661 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: But your brain and your body have learned a lesson 662 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 2: that there's something dangerous and you should stop, even when 663 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 2: that is wholly untrue. And so to do that, we 664 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: have to do that thing over and over again. Be like, 665 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 2: hey body, we're actually cool, we're actually fine. 666 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 3: And okay. 667 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 2: The truth is as much as you can physiologically and 668 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 2: psychologically put that pain. 669 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 3: Down, calm yourself. 670 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 2: So with kids with chronic pain, we have to teach 671 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 2: them really amazing coping skills, yoga, meditation, realizing, going on 672 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: a walk around the block calms our body, learning breathing 673 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 2: techniques and strategies, Learning that waiting a really long time 674 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 2: to eat until we're starving is not a good idea. 675 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: That we need to learn to drink enough water, that 676 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 2: going to bed at the same time every night, even 677 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: though that's rough, it's going to be game changing and 678 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 2: your ability to manage, and that's not and again and 679 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 2: none of that makes pain your fault or anything you did. 680 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: Your body is requiring something so much higher level. 681 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like all this self care stuff that I 682 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: wish I had implemented from the time I was little. 683 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. 684 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: Wow, this is so amazing, I wanted to say, everyone listening. 685 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: The meg Foundation your website. What I also loved about 686 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,719 Speaker 1: it is that you can literally enter in your kid's age, 687 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: because so much of how we support our kids through 688 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: each kind of pain actually changes with their age and 689 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: the language we use and what's developmentally appropriate. So you 690 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: can literally enter your kid's age in the website and 691 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: it will change, because I'm sure it changes from a 692 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: three year old to a fourteen year. 693 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 2: Old absolutely, So it directs to you. Then we want 694 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: you to be able to find the things you need 695 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 2: as quickly as possible, and so based on the type 696 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: of pain and based on the age of your child 697 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 2: being able to like, these are the resources that would 698 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 2: be great for you. 699 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: Love it. I feel so lucky, Like I have no 700 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: needle fear or trauma at all. I think it's like 701 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, fuck you, let's go like, I've 702 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: got this, Like I know this isn't a big deal. 703 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: My husband is like a mouse, Like he's just terrified. 704 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 2: And I'm guessing he's not a mouse in other areas. 705 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: No, But I feel so lucky that I don't have 706 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: any negative feelings about it, and so I feel it 707 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: would be such a gift to try to give my 708 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: kids the same gift because I've been able to walk 709 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: through my life like I am not afraid of doctors. 710 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of like how they're going to help me, 711 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 1: Like I don't have a negative connotation around it. 712 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 3: And you've lived through it. 713 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 2: Yes, you've created that reality through that expectation and that belief, 714 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: and that's really what we want to do for our kids, 715 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 2: for our kids. And again you're like, and I'm guessing 716 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 2: your husband's a good example of that too, Like in 717 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 2: every other area of life. 718 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: Let's make the next generation of children who are not 719 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: having any needle fear. 720 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 2: And understanding pain because that is also associated to addiction. 721 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure, chronic. 722 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 2: Pain, use of oipioids, all of this. There's so many 723 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 2: negative outcomes that we get to avoid by understanding pain 724 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 2: and how it works. In our body and the power 725 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: and control we can have over it. 726 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 3: The other thing that I. 727 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 2: Want to point out that's really important is that what 728 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 2: we say after is instrumentally important. There's unbelievably really cool 729 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 2: research and we actually have a video on the website 730 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,439 Speaker 2: called Framing the Story that talks about this that what 731 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 2: we say after is unbelievably important for forming their memory 732 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: memory of that and their expectations going forward that it 733 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 2: will dick take how they will feel. And one of 734 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: the things I love to do is a video the 735 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 2: kids right after there and I'm like, hey, that was awesome, 736 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 2: such a good job. What do you want to say 737 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 2: to your future self the next time we get a poke? 738 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 3: What helped? What was good? What was awesome? 739 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 2: And they're like, okay, I really liked sucking on all 740 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 2: of pop and watching the video and that was cool, 741 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 2: and like was it a big deal or no big deal? 742 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 2: And they're like, no big deal. And so the next 743 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 2: time that comes and there starts to be that anxiety, 744 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 2: You're like, hey, cool, let's check it yourself. Look what 745 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 2: you said to yourself next time? 746 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: WHOA, That's brilliant. 747 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 2: Right when we're asking that question, we are forming that 748 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: for them, and even by the way, if it did 749 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 2: not go as well, so you have to be prepared 750 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: to pull the plug. If we're at mock ten and 751 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 2: we're holding it down, I'm like, you know what, unless 752 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 2: someone is bleeding out, we don't actually need to get. 753 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 3: This done today. 754 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 2: And instead we're turning around being like, you know, I'm 755 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 2: so proud of you. You went in that room and 756 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 2: you got the plan and we got there. That was awesome. 757 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,399 Speaker 2: And next time we get to go even a little 758 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 2: bit further. But nice work. That was great. Good job 759 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 2: not kicking the doctor this time, your body safe, whatever 760 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 2: that was, you stayed in the room. I'm so proud 761 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 2: of you that we are reinforcing when we are highlighting 762 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 2: what went well and positive and how we can build 763 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 2: on that in the future. 764 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 3: It is game. 765 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 2: Changing because we'd had parents come to me we worked 766 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 2: on a plan and they're like, well it just went 767 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 2: terribly and I'm like, okay, talk to me. 768 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 3: What happened. 769 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 2: They're like, we went in, we had a plan, everyone 770 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 2: was calm, but right before the poke when they really 771 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 2: freaked out and started yelling, and I'm like, that's actually incredible, 772 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 2: Like they made it that far. They made it in 773 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 2: and we got it in and you did it and 774 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 2: I'm looking at that, I'm like, I'm so proud of you. 775 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 776 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: My god, Jody, the work you're doing is invaluable, and 777 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: I know you are climbing a massive mountain of cultural 778 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: norms that are very hard to shift. But your work 779 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: is seen, and I hope all of the mamas and 780 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: caretakers listening to this podcast will use and check out 781 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: the website. Please, what is your How old are your kids? 782 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 3: My kids are nine and eleven. 783 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: Does anybody have a birthday coming up? 784 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 3: Yes? My daughter here? 785 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: What advice would you give to your kid on their 786 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: upcoming birthday? 787 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 3: On their upcoming birthday at are brilliant. 788 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 2: So with my nine year old, who is a little 789 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 2: people pleaser, my advice to her always and will definitely 790 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 2: be advice to ten year old self is it's okay 791 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 2: to make people mad. 792 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: Yes, I wish I would have told me that, because 793 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: I got a big people pleaser inside my soul is right. 794 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: Love that and then I always ask our amazing guests 795 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: to finish this sentence. Parenthood is so hard. 796 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 4: So hard, It's so hard, and that's why we all 797 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,760 Speaker 4: have to come together and have podcasts like Katie's Crib 798 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 4: so that we have a village together to help us 799 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 4: all have the resources. 800 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: And the knowledge and the information to make it easier, 801 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: especially trips to the Doctor. Thank you, Doctor Jodi Thomas 802 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: for coming on Katie's Crib. This was an incredible episode. 803 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: I learned a ton. 804 00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. 805 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. 806 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. 807 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: Let me know. You can always find me at Katiescrib 808 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: at Shondaland dot com. Katie's Crib is a production of 809 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from 810 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 811 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.