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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. Welcome in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show

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Speaker 1: Wednesday edition. We are together in New York City early

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Speaker 1: preview state dinner for all the bets I'm gonna win

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Speaker 1: last night with Buck has soon to be father in

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Speaker 1: law and Raffi from the Fox Corporate Establishment. Fun time

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Speaker 1: last night as we were sitting around talking about all

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Speaker 1: the issues of the day, basically continuing the conversation. We

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Speaker 1: will be doing that with all of you and Buck.

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Speaker 1: Last night while we were at dinner, the Washington Post

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Speaker 1: came out with a story that the Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: is officially investigating Donald Trump. Now just calling my shot

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Speaker 1: one more time. I think they are going to charge

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Speaker 1: Hunter Biden with felonies and also we'll try to get

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump for a conspiracy and argue that that is

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Speaker 1: how they are balancing out that they are not a

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Speaker 1: political in nature, even though we know the Department of

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Speaker 1: Justice is very political in nature. Donald Trump going to

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Speaker 1: be at Bedminster tomorrow for a live golf tour event,

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Speaker 1: scheduled to join us on Friday live on this program. Bluck.

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Speaker 1: My general thoughts were I wasn't surprised because I've kind

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Speaker 1: of been anticipating that some story like this would come

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Speaker 1: out because Marrek Garland is under such pressure in the

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Speaker 1: wake of all of the January sixth investigations to try

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Speaker 1: and hold Donald Trump accountable for the insurrection as they

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Speaker 1: call it, and the attack against democracy, even as Democrats

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Speaker 1: right now are supporting Donald Trump fielded candidates because they

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Speaker 1: think they're better able to be beaten. If you're really

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Speaker 1: worried about democracy, would you be spending millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: to make sure that Republicans, in your mind, are nominating

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Speaker 1: Trump focused vote nominees. But did this surprise you at

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Speaker 1: all that the news came down that it would come

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Speaker 1: from a member of the Biden administration, effectively in the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post, which does default pr for the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: and certainly Merrick Garland, as we said, under pressure. He's

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Speaker 1: trying to alleviate that pressure a little bit by saying, see, guys,

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Speaker 1: we are paying attention here. Well, it does force you

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Speaker 1: to ask the question once again, what is the real purpose?

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Speaker 1: I don't mean the stated purpose. We all know it's

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Speaker 1: defending our democracy, right so that people who are in

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Speaker 1: hysterics over the one time the right has been involved

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Speaker 1: in a riot in recent years, in recent memory. That's

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Speaker 1: what they say in Congress. It's about what is it

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Speaker 1: really about? If it were creating a narrative that allowed

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Speaker 1: Democrats a better chance of keeping their seats in Congress,

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Speaker 1: we would certainly see that at some level reflected in

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Speaker 1: the numbers. If anything, it has gone in the other

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Speaker 1: direction because they're putting all this focus on things that

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Speaker 1: aren't the price of gas, that aren't the price of groceries,

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Speaker 1: the things that people get energized understandably about when it

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Speaker 1: comes to voting right. So, and what is the purpose

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Speaker 1: We come back to the fundamental question, Clay. I think

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Speaker 1: that it is certainly to create the perception that they

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Speaker 1: could indict Donald Trump right so effectively the j six

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Speaker 1: Commission makes it so that he's like an unindicted co

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Speaker 1: conspirator in the election. Now, the Washington the Washington Post

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Speaker 1: puts out this story. You know, Drudge has a link

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Speaker 1: up DJ target on the down with a question mark.

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Speaker 1: They say, and I read the Washington Post piece last

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Speaker 1: night after it came out. They say, there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of things going on here. One is there are

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Speaker 1: two different tracks, right, so then then tell me what

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Speaker 1: you think about these as a from from the prosecution

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Speaker 1: point of view. The first this is a quote from

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Speaker 1: the piece, centers on seditious conspiracy and conspiracy to obstruct

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Speaker 1: a government proceeding, the type of charges already filed against

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Speaker 1: individuals who stormed the capital. Okay, that's track one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Track two. The second quote involves potential fraud associated with

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Speaker 1: the false elector's scheme or with pressure Trump and his

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Speaker 1: allies allegedly put on the Justice Department and others to

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Speaker 1: falsely claim the election was rigged and votes were fraudulently cast. Okay,

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Speaker 1: those are they're saying the two possible prosecution tracks. The

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Speaker 1: first one feels like a declaration of political nuclear war,

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Speaker 1: the second one a little bit more flimsy from the outset.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about either or both of these?

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Speaker 1: I've been arguing that they were going to charge him

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Speaker 1: if they charged him with anything with a conspiracy because

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Speaker 1: and I go all the way back to when I

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Speaker 1: was in law school. My criminal law professor at the time,

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Speaker 1: Don Hall, lecturing us in criminal law the initial first

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Speaker 1: year legal course, he said, what do you get? What

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Speaker 1: do you do? If you've got him for nothing else,

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Speaker 1: but you feel like you want to bring charges, you

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Speaker 1: charge them with a conspiracy, because it's a very amorphous charge,

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Speaker 1: because you're not even arguing necessarily that an act to

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Speaker 1: a large extent occurred, but just that that an act

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Speaker 1: was planned in some way. And so I have thought

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Speaker 1: that if they were ever going to charge Trump with

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Speaker 1: anything relating to January sixth, it would be a conspiracy

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Speaker 1: of sorts. The challenge that I think they've got buck

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Speaker 1: in terms of the advantage they have. Let's start with

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Speaker 1: the advantage. The advantage they have is Washington DC. We've

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Speaker 1: seen Steve Vannon already be convicted. We've seen Hillary Clinton's

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Speaker 1: co conspirators walk over the Russia collusion. They have a

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Speaker 1: home field advantage, a forum that is very favorable to

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Speaker 1: them associated with Washington DC, which is ninety percent Democrats.

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Speaker 1: So Trump getting charged with anything in Washington DC is

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Speaker 1: a difficult scenario. Having said that, if I am looking

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Speaker 1: at this from a legal perspective as a defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: which I have been before, I think it's really hard

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Speaker 1: to make a case against Trump because there are lawyers

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Speaker 1: that were making the case that he could legally advocate

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Speaker 1: for which he was advocating. In other words, it may

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Speaker 1: be outside the bounds of normal legal process, but there

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Speaker 1: are lawyers who would argue that Mike Pence had the

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Speaker 1: right to reject the electors right, that there was in

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Speaker 1: some basis a legal claim there. And if you're out

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Speaker 1: there and you're saying, well, that's crazy, look at what

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden has done. Let's take it outside of January sixth.

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden has consistently advocated for policies that even his

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Speaker 1: own legal advisers have said, well, there's no basis for this.

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Speaker 1: The example was the extension of the eviction moratorium. He

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Speaker 1: even said, legally, we don't have a very strong argument here,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to do it because it might stall

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Speaker 1: the overall evictions and give some benefits. My point is

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Speaker 1: Trump is not a lawyer. If he is relying on

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Speaker 1: the advice of some lawyers, even if it is not

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Speaker 1: necessarily a sound legal strategy, it is a legal strategy

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Speaker 1: which makes it hard for me to believe that there

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Speaker 1: is any criminal liability. So I want to do a

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Speaker 1: sports thing for second year. You tell me if this

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Speaker 1: one lines up. It is as though the Democrats are

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Speaker 1: an opposing football team, and they are saying that the team,

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Speaker 1: the Trump team, through a challenge flag and they did

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Speaker 1: so in bad faith. Essentially, they knew that there wasn't

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Speaker 1: a penalty to be called, but they threw a flag anyway,

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Speaker 1: and they should be penalized for that, which then just

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Speaker 1: tells you that they think this is an issue of

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Speaker 1: judgment that is so bad or so bad faith that somehow,

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Speaker 1: even if you're trying to stay within the rules. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is on the second counts on potential fraud associated

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Speaker 1: with the false elector's scheme or whatever they're calling it.

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Speaker 1: Trump thought they cheated and Trump was talking to lawyers

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Speaker 1: more than they cheated. So Trump throws a flag, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, and they're saying, hey, he's not allowed to

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Speaker 1: throw the flag because it was so obvious there wasn't

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Speaker 1: a penalty. But that's actually not how the system works. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think intent is hard to prove, and this

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Speaker 1: goes back to the basics of criminal law in general.

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Speaker 1: You have to show both a men's raya and an

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Speaker 1: act as raya for people out there, you have to

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Speaker 1: show the intent and an act to further the intent

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Speaker 1: in order to be guilty. Of most criminal offenses, and

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Speaker 1: if Trump truly believed that there was fraud, and if

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Speaker 1: he reliably listened to his attorneys and followed their legal

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Speaker 1: advice in any way, which I think he did, there

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Speaker 1: is no crime here. And it's funny because you think

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Speaker 1: about the Russia collusion fiasco, and I was warning people

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Speaker 1: all throughout that people are saying, oh, just wait, there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be all They're gonna be froug marching guys out

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Speaker 1: of the FBI and handcuffs, And I said, no, that's

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Speaker 1: not gonna happen, because the ultimate fallback for all the

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Speaker 1: Russia collusion conspirators was going to be we were so

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Speaker 1: dumb that we actually believe that. We are so reckless

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Speaker 1: and stupid in the way we did our jobs at

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Speaker 1: the FBI and at the CIA, etc. That you could

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Speaker 1: just float a news story to us, an actual press

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Speaker 1: clipping to us, we'd say, Oh, that looks true, let's

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Speaker 1: just go with that. Or we would believe the Steel

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Speaker 1: dossier with the PP tape and all the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: We're so dumb that we actually it's not that we

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Speaker 1: wanted to believe it, so we could then go on offense,

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Speaker 1: which is what really happened, the FBI's claim all along

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Speaker 1: combing the rest of them. Was there such hysterical lunatics

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Speaker 1: about hating Trump that they believed all the Russia collusion stuff,

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Speaker 1: And you can't you can't prosecute stupid or also be

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. Well again, Buck, does anybody out

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Speaker 1: there doubt that Trump, whether you love or hate Trump,

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Speaker 1: does anybody out there doubt that Trump legitimately believes that

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Speaker 1: the election was stolen from him in twenty twenty. I

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Speaker 1: don't think even the most died in the wall anti

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Speaker 1: Trump person I don't think is arguing that Trump is

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Speaker 1: acting on a falsehood. I think he believes it, and

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Speaker 1: that's on the election side of it. On the seditious

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Speaker 1: conspiracy possibility, this would have to be that there was

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Speaker 1: a credible threat to the overthrow of the United States government,

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Speaker 1: and all the so serious congressman and legal analysts going

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Speaker 1: on cable news are gonna have to are going to

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Speaker 1: be presenting to a jury. The jury is a bunch

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Speaker 1: of anti Trump lives because it's DC. But if they

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Speaker 1: brought this charge, they would be saying that there was

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Speaker 1: a credible effort. Right if some guy, if some crazy

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Speaker 1: guy shows up to the front gate of an army

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Speaker 1: base and says, I'm here to overthrow the United States military.

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna You're gonna put him in bellevue or something.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna say this guy needs a psych evaluation. You're

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Speaker 1: not going to charge him with overthrowing the military if

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Speaker 1: he shows up bare handed and says I'm here to

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Speaker 1: overthrow the military. Right, there has to be some credible

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Speaker 1: reality to this, and there is no credible reality to

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Speaker 1: furry hat guy with the spear and all the people

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Speaker 1: taking selfies, and yes, even the people that were assaulting

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Speaker 1: police who should be punished and are being severely punished.

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Speaker 1: I might add, I'm like in a lot of other

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Speaker 1: assaults on police officers, there's no credible threat of overthrow

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Speaker 1: of the United States Government's why anyone who says it's

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Speaker 1: an insurrection is a liar or an idiot. Clay, I

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Speaker 1: think so, Buck. And for anybody out there who has

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Speaker 1: never talked to a big group of lawyers together, first

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Speaker 1: of all, congratulations, because if you've ever talked to a

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Speaker 1: lot of lawyers, it's a great layne. What do you

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Speaker 1: have when you have a lawyer up to his neck

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Speaker 1: and cement not enough cement, which as a lawyer, I

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Speaker 1: could say, if there are ten lawyers advising Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: they could all have ten different theories of the case

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Speaker 1: about how Trump should be contesting the twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 1: If he has ten different lawyers making arguments, maybe five

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Speaker 1: or six of those lawyers agree that the most likely

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Speaker 1: path he should follow is X. But if somebody's arguing

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Speaker 1: for why, and Trump decides that he wants to go

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Speaker 1: in the why direction, then I don't understand if he's

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Speaker 1: relying on lawyers to make legal arguments, even if they

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Speaker 1: are aggressive legal arguments, and even if most constitutional scholars

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Speaker 1: don't agree with them. If he is, as an untrained

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Speaker 1: lawyer listening to ten different lawyer years and picking, hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to go in this direction, I don't understand

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Speaker 1: how the intent is there to do any of this

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Speaker 1: other than to pursue, to the full extent of the

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Speaker 1: law his legal opportunities, which is his ultimate best defense.

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Speaker 1: And obviously this all really does turn into a political

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Speaker 1: question as much or more so than it as even

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Speaker 1: a legal one, as in do the Democrats have the

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Speaker 1: intestinal fortitude to push this through? Merrick Garland, the DOJ

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Speaker 1: to indict a former president on look, if the former

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Speaker 1: president was found, you know, if he had done something

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Speaker 1: that would be uh, you know, criminal under under state law,

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Speaker 1: right if he had if he had killed somebody. You're

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Speaker 1: just trying to argue right now, right, but I mean

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Speaker 1: something that's a legal and all states, like a violent assault, right,

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Speaker 1: that would be But to try to charge a former

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Speaker 1: president with a political crime is third world banana republic stuff.

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Speaker 1: We all know it. So at one do they have

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Speaker 1: the intestinal fortitude to actually pull the trigger on this,

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Speaker 1: put it before a grand jury, bring the indictment, and

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Speaker 1: then too, what happens if they do it. I think

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Speaker 1: they don't know, and that's one of the reasons they're

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Speaker 1: not going to do it. I think we should talk

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Speaker 1: about what happens if they do it. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: that when we come back in just a sec, because

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Speaker 1: I think that's partly what they're debating right now internally

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Speaker 1: in the Department of Justice. You know, I've got my

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Speaker 1: Pure Talk phone in my hands right now. That's the

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Speaker 1: thirty dollars a month for unlimited talk, text and a

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Speaker 1: healthy level of data. When I made the switch to

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Speaker 1: pure Talk, I found the five G service to be

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Speaker 1: excellent and every bit as good as what I had before.

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Speaker 1: The only change was in the real monthly savings, the

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Speaker 1: kind that saved me as much as eight hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: a year. The same will be true for you. So

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Speaker 1: if you're ready switched to pure talk now, you'll get

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Speaker 1: a month free. But you have to dial pound two

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Speaker 1: fifty and say Clay and Buck. With pure talks no risk,

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Speaker 1: bunny back guarantee you will not regret this. Dial pound

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Speaker 1: two five zero. That's pound two five zero, say Clay

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Speaker 1: and Buck, sign up and get a month free. Pure

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Speaker 1: talk is simply smarter wireless. They're here to shed light

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Speaker 1: on the truth every day. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton

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Speaker 1: welcome back in Everybody. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show.

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Speaker 1: Clay and I here in NYC, right in midtown Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: and it was very it's very hot last few days.

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Speaker 1: Specify's actually doing pretty well right now, all things considered.

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Speaker 1: A lot of masks on the street, though, just upsets me.

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Speaker 1: Clay's probably looking at this like this is some alien

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Speaker 1: invasion going on right now. It's with all these masks everywhere,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden. But we'll get into some of

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Speaker 1: that coming up a little bit later, because the question

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Speaker 1: we have to address today is when is a recession

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Speaker 1: not a recession? I think the answer is what a

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Speaker 1: Democrat is president. That's when, all of a sudden, a

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Speaker 1: recession is something else. It's a recovery, it's a transition,

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Speaker 1: it's a mitigation measure, whatever, it's something else. It's not

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Speaker 1: actually a recession, especially when you're almost at the August

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Speaker 1: recess and you've got a midterm election coming up. Here

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Speaker 1: is just a sense. I mean, they've got Brian Deese,

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Speaker 1: the economic advisor in this White House, who's out there

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Speaker 1: trying to make the case. There are a few people

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Speaker 1: you'll see popping up on TV not making a compelling

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Speaker 1: case or even a coherent one, trying to tell everybody

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Speaker 1: about how this is not really a recession. Here is

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Speaker 1: what they say sometimes versus other times, one do we

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Speaker 1: have it. Two negative quarters of GDP growth is not

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Speaker 1: the technical definition of recession. It's not the definition that

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Speaker 1: economists have traditionally relied on. A recession is just two

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Speaker 1: consecutive quarters of economic decline? What is a recession? A

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Speaker 1: recession is two consecutive quarters of two consecutive quarters, two

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Speaker 1: consecutive quarters, two consecutive quarters of decline? You GDP? Did

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Speaker 1: you know it's two consecutive quarters of down GDP? It

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Speaker 1: is actually a definition of a recession. Most common definition

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Speaker 1: of a recession to consecutive quarters of negative growth. Even

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Speaker 1: if we don't have two consecutive quarters of negative growth,

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Speaker 1: we might have one quarter of growth so deep that

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Speaker 1: it's classified as a recession. And McClay to be fair

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Speaker 1: if they can redefine the word woman. Redefining the word

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Speaker 1: recession is pretty easy in comparison, But I think everybody

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Speaker 1: sees the game here. If you wonder what the number

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Speaker 1: is going to be about a week ago, this argument

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Speaker 1: began to be trotted out that it wasn't a recession

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Speaker 1: until it's officially called a recession by the grand pooh

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Speaker 1: bahs in charge of economic analysis and buck Oftentimes they

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Speaker 1: don't even make their official statement on recession having arrived

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Speaker 1: until a year after the recession has already been here.

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Speaker 1: So what seems quite clear is Republicans are going to

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Speaker 1: argue rightly that the traditional definition of recession is two

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Speaker 1: straight quarters of declining GDP growth. We already were down

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Speaker 1: one point six percent in quarter one, We're likely going

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Speaker 1: to be down tomorrow early in the morning when this

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Speaker 1: number comes out for the second quarter, and when that happens,

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Speaker 1: we'll be in a recession. And what Democrats are afraid

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Speaker 1: of is we've already got nine point one percent inflation.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting at a little over three months until the

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Speaker 1: mid term, and in addition to the worst inflation in

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Speaker 1: over forty years, two generation failed inflation numbers, you're now

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Speaker 1: going to also be able to argue that Biden has

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Speaker 1: led the country into a recession. And so they are

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Speaker 1: desperate to try to adopt this technical version of recession

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Speaker 1: that won't be officially analyzed and determined until after the midterms,

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Speaker 1: So sometime in twenty twenty three, all of these I

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Speaker 1: think it's like eight guys who are sitting on an

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Speaker 1: economics board that analyze all the data and determine whether

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Speaker 1: we've officially hit a recession. Then it'll happen in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, when we're likely already moving through the recession

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Speaker 1: and it's not an election year. They don't want to

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Speaker 1: give this ammunition to Republicans. And the reality that the

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Speaker 1: Democrats don't want to discuss is rates are going up

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Speaker 1: even higher, and the recession that we are eaten right now,

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Speaker 1: whether it is a technicality or not, is probably going

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Speaker 1: to get worse. You're going to see likely a period

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Speaker 1: of stagflation, so rising or high inflation rates and rising unemployment.

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Speaker 1: That's likely to be the case. So they're trying to

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Speaker 1: do this slow roll, boil the frog and the pot,

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Speaker 1: slowly approach to the economic reality we are all in.

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Speaker 1: And here's an economist over at KPMG saying, look, the

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Speaker 1: reality here is that the Biden economy is not good

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Speaker 1: and it's going to get worse at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day. The worst mistake would be to allow a

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Speaker 1: repeat of the nineteen sixties and seventies, where we let

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Speaker 1: inflation road living standards and squeeze profit margins layout compound

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Speaker 1: a vicious cycle that went on for years. That's worse

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Speaker 1: than recession. It's nothing is good. This is between a

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Speaker 1: rock and a hard place, and there's no way to

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Speaker 1: extract ourselves without there being some pain. Now, if the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration was staffed with serious people, and if Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden had the energy, cognition, and clear synapses in the

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Speaker 1: brain necessary to really understand what's going on here, Clay,

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Speaker 1: I think that they could say to everybody, look, we're

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Speaker 1: in a pandemic. We spend trillions of dollars, and we

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Speaker 1: were in an emergency situation, and we need to get

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Speaker 1: ourselves out of this now. And that is going to

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Speaker 1: require some difficulty, but we're gonna make smart decisions. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna bring on some business leaders into this White House.

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Speaker 1: There are things they could do. What they have been

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Speaker 1: doing all year is saying, look at all the jobs

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Speaker 1: we created, We're great, this is a great economy. What

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Speaker 1: are you talking about? And the American people are looking

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Speaker 1: at them saying, can't afford my gas, my groceries, or

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Speaker 1: my mortgage, buddy, it's not so great. They're in a

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Speaker 1: really tough spot in this respect. Buck. Two thirds of

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Speaker 1: the American economy is consumer spending. So if consumers recognize

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Speaker 1: that we're in a recession, which I think consumers have.

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Speaker 1: What happens, people start to spend money less, and this

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Speaker 1: is what you're seeing with the earnings numbers that are

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Speaker 1: coming out. Walmart is always a good approximation of the

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Speaker 1: larger national economy. Remember last year, Walmart came out and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're starting to see people trade back to generics a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Instead of buying the expensive brand of peanut butter,

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Speaker 1: they're buying a Walmart version. They're saving a little bit

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Speaker 1: of money. They came out and said that that was

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Speaker 1: last year. Last quarter, I believe most recent quarter for

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Speaker 1: Walmart stock dropped ten percent because they said people are

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Speaker 1: dialing back spending in a big way. First thing you

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Speaker 1: do is go to generics. Next thing you do is

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Speaker 1: start buying less. And when people are buying less from

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Speaker 1: Walmart nationwide, we're in a recession book and people are

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Speaker 1: behaving like we're in a recession. And we talked about

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Speaker 1: this last night at dinner. I'm really nervous about the

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Speaker 1: housing market. Yep, right, because just think about it out there.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this last week with Art laugh or

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Speaker 1: two Economic genius. But there are a lot of people

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Speaker 1: out there, probably many of you listening to us, right

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Speaker 1: now who have fifteen or thirty year mortgages in the

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Speaker 1: two and a half to three percent range, and you

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Speaker 1: might have been thinking, Hey, we just had another kid,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's time to move. I'd like to be in

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Speaker 1: this other neighborhood. Or maybe you're downsizing and you're like

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Speaker 1: it's time to move. But then you think, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: in order to move, my overall mortgage is gonna go

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Speaker 1: to six percent. Why would I move when I've got

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Speaker 1: a two and a half or three percent mortgage? Are

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Speaker 1: locked in, and you're starting to see housing prices come

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Speaker 1: back substantially all over the country, even in hot markets.

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Speaker 1: This is supply and demand. You're going to have fewer

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Speaker 1: possible buyers for all of these houses because they won't

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Speaker 1: be able to afford the financing as the rates rise,

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Speaker 1: as well as the challenge of paying all their other bills.

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Speaker 1: Right most families are living within a pretty confined budget

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Speaker 1: spase month the month, and you see these numbers about

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Speaker 1: how many people even have the savings to deal with

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Speaker 1: a five hundred dollar emergency nationwide, it's pretty small, But

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Speaker 1: when you have fewer possible buyers in the housing market,

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Speaker 1: you're going to have the effect on price. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people obviously also have seen their equity go up

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Speaker 1: dramatically in their houses in the last couple of years.

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Speaker 1: And now the question is, what what are they going

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Speaker 1: to do right those prices are going to be coming down.

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Speaker 1: The housing market could slow down pretty dramatically, and that

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Speaker 1: obviously affects building, That affects the broader economy in a

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Speaker 1: lot of really important ways. And they keep pushing, they

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Speaker 1: keep pushing us on this idea. Well, unemployments really low, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but not for the reasons they want people to believe,

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Speaker 1: because of low labor force participation, because a lot of

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Speaker 1: people retired during COVID, and I also think that they're

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Speaker 1: not measure I think there are a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that are just out of the job search right now

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Speaker 1: because they've decided that they have better options or they'd

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Speaker 1: rather just move in with family. So when you're looking

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Speaker 1: for some kind of an upshot in this economy, I

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Speaker 1: think it's really hard to find one. And the people

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Speaker 1: in charge are both dishonest about this and incompetent in

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Speaker 1: the handling of this. That's a big challenge. And let's

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Speaker 1: talk about this potential basis point rise, which we anticipate

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a three quarter basis point rise.

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Speaker 1: They did this last month, which was the biggest interest

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Speaker 1: rate rise since nineteen ninety four. The expectation as the

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Speaker 1: feed is going to raise another three quarter basis points today,

431
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: when and or if that happens, Buck, think about the

432
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: challenging dynamic that we're in. We may be in a

433
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: recession and rising interests, raising interest rates simultaneously, which almost

434
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: never happens. Usually you're cutting interest rates during a recession

435
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: to try to stimulate demand. So you're doing something that

436
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 1: actually could add more fuel to the recession fire. And

437
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: the reason we're having to do it is because they

438
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: so mismanaged things that they allowed inflation to get out

439
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 1: of control so they could destroy the recession simultaneously getting

440
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: worse while maybe not even being able to address the

441
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: underlying inflation. Which is why we're in one of the

442
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: most difficult economic markets in terms of just trying to

443
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 1: handle it, and we've got maybe the dumbest, least business

444
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: centric management that we have ever seen in our lives

445
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: in the White House right now. This is all ultimately

446
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: cause and effect. The FED, the government put too much

447
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: money into circulation. This was a problem of monetary policy.

448
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: They overstimulated the economy, They artificially kept rates too low.

449
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: They spend too much money. Where thirty trillion roughly now

450
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: in the national debt. Joe Biden comes in after a

451
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: period of overspending. Let's be honest, during lockdowns that happened,

452
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: trillions of dollars spent. He spent two trillion more, wanted

453
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: to spend another five trillion over ten years on top

454
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: of that, build back better. The cause and effect here

455
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: economically is clear. You spent too much money, You manipulated

456
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: the economy too much, and so now there's going to

457
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 1: be the pendulum swinging in the other direction. The political

458
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: cause and effect should be the people that wanted to

459
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: do this even more than they already did, and have

460
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: no idea how to actually operate within a free market

461
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: economy to make things grow and improve and get better

462
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: for all of us. They need to be held to

463
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: count in this mid term election. That's otherwise you're getting

464
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: more of this. They still think if we could spend more,

465
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: Remember the stimulus package under Obama. I remember what the

466
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: criticism was when the Obama economy wasn't even a trillion,

467
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: wasn't even a trillion. And their whole thing though, is that, oh,

468
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: we didn't spend enough. That was always the thing. It's

469
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: always more spending. Right now, if Joe Biden could, would

470
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: he spend five trillion dollars for build back that hundred

471
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: other votes one dent? He would do it. They think

472
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: they know how to put the money to work better

473
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: than the American people do. They have to be taught

474
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: a lesson. We're just talking about how it's going to

475
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: be an interesting day. In the next twenty four hours

476
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: or so. You're going to see the markets get really

477
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: choppy because you have another big interest rate rise from

478
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: the Fed. You know what that means. You know that's

479
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: going to spook the markets a lot. Interest rates going up,

480
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: dollars going to be affected by this, the GDP report

481
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: coming out tomorrow. We got a recession. Friends. In times

482
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: like these, you have to have a plan to protect

483
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: the value of what you've worked hard to save. If

484
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Speaker 1: your new plan includes buy more gold while you're doing

485
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Speaker 1: it right, gold has been proven overtime to hold value

486
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Speaker 1: in markets are really turbulent times like right now. I

487
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: rely on the Oxford Gold Group for my gold purchases.

488
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490
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Speaker 1: your portfolio. The Oxford Gold Group. They will work with

491
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492
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493
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494
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495
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496
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Speaker 1: That number again at the Oxford Gold Group is eight

497
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: three three four zero four Gold. Welcome back in to

498
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. We have Julie

499
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: Kelly joining us right now to talk about the situation

500
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: of the January six protesters and also the possibility of

501
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: adj criminal charge being brought against former President Donald Trump. Julie,

502
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being with us. Hey, guys, thanks

503
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: for having me on. So first off, I just think

504
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: it's so important because you've been on this from the

505
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: very beginning, you keep on it. You are in this

506
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: fight to get fair treatment and justice done for those

507
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: who are accused of crimes, including many accused of entirely

508
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: non violent crimes. On January six, What is the latest

509
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: that everyone across the country. Julie should know about the

510
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: status of these January six defendants. Right now, there are

511
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: about one hundred, eight hundred and fifty Americans charged in

512
00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: the Justice Department's unprecedented, abusive, vengeful prosecution of what happened

513
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: on January sixth. The overwhelming majority of those people are

514
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: charged with low level misdemeanors, such as parading in the capital. Nonetheless,

515
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: the DOJ still requesting jail time for those people. We

516
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: saw this week doctor Simone Gould, who was also an

517
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: anti lockdown activist, was arrested on January sixth. She pleaded

518
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: guilty to disorderly conduct. She just started a sixty day

519
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: prison sentence. So even for the lowest charges, DOJ's requesting

520
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: prison time, and these judges are signing off on it.

521
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: We still have at least seventy to eighty people who

522
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: remained detained without bonds, some of whom have been behind

523
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: bars for sixteen seventeen months awaiting trial. We've not been

524
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: convicted of anything. And so now we see the Washington

525
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: Post confirming last night what I've been predicting for months

526
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: is that the DOJ is moving working with a grand

527
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: jury and moving to indict Donald Trump on at least

528
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: one Salon account possibly seditious conspiracy, which is insane. But

529
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: that's where we are. Things are getting worse for these

530
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: defendants and targets rather than getting better. Now more than

531
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: eighteen months later. Julie Kelly, political commentator, senior contributor to

532
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: American Greatness, author of January six how Democrats use the

533
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: Capital protest to launch a war on terror against the

534
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: political right and disloyal opposition. You have some breaking news

535
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: here for us, I believe earlier today, a man named

536
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: George Tanios is one of two men accused of the

537
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: attack on Brian Sicknik, the Capitol police officer. He spent

538
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: five months in jail over this. What exactly is going

539
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: on and what does it signify in your mind what

540
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice is doing associated with George Tanios.

541
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's pretty stunning because, as you both know,

542
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: with the idea that Brian Sicknick died as a result

543
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: of what happened on January sixth has been an animating

544
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: feature on the January sixth narrative. We still to this day,

545
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: even this committee continues to lie that Sicknick somehow died

546
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: as a result of the capital protest. Of course, in

547
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: April twenty twenty one, after months of stories, including a

548
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: New York Times account claiming he was luging to death

549
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: with fire extinguisher, a story they later retracted, in April

550
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, the corner came out and said, unfortunately,

551
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: at age forty two, he tragically died of natural causes,

552
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: two strokes caused by blood clot that hasn't stopped the

553
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: mediant and d o J itself from perpetuating the lie.

554
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: So two men were charged, arrested and charged in March

555
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one. They were both denied bail George Tanios.

556
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: They both faced identical felony counts, including assaulting an officer

557
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: with a dangerous or deadly weapon pepper spray, and George

558
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: Tanios was in jail for five months, denied by all,

559
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: lost his business, bankrupted him of course, just almost destroy

560
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: his family um. His detention was overturned by the DC

561
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,719
Speaker 1: Appellate Court, a very rare move to overturn these pre

562
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: trial attention orders. Anyway, he still faced charges, he refused

563
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: to plea and then today suddenly DJ filed dropped all

564
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: of the assault charges against him and instead filed two

565
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: low level misdemeanors, restricted um trust, passing unrestricted grounds and

566
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: disorderly conduct, for which he will plead guilty later this afternoon. So, so,

567
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: just to be clear, Julie for everybody in the Tanio's case,

568
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: if if that's where this goes, how long will he

569
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: have been held and are they keeping were they keeping

570
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: uh Tanios in a solitary or administrative segregation in the

571
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: in the jail system in DC? And how long would

572
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: he have served for what are effectively as adjudicated misdemeanors. Right,

573
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: So he was in jail for more than five months,

574
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: and even when he was released, Judge Hogan, a Reagan appointee,

575
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: if you could believe a man who should have retired

576
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: long ago, still sentenced him to home detention. He couldn't

577
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: even leave his house, so he could not work after

578
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: being defined for five months. Additionally, but I believe it's

579
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: only six months up to six months for each of

580
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: his two misdemeanors. So I'm assuming that DJ or the

581
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: judge will just after they sentence him, which won't be today,

582
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: but for time served. But look, it doesn't change the

583
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: fact his life has been destroyed. The media describes him

584
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: as a cop killer. I've been in contact with George

585
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: really since before he got released, and you know, he

586
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: got out of jail and started looking up his name

587
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: and could not believe what he was reading that he

588
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: is now considered a cop killer. And as you know,

589
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: even though DJ has dropped all those charges related to him,

590
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: this will still be part of his life story and

591
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: still considered someone who contributed to the jas of Barmon Sicknick.

592
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: No matter what the facts are, Julie, the New York

593
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: Times will not cover a lot of the January six

594
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: political prisoner angle. But I was telling Buck. I think

595
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: it was the Monday edition of The Times. They had

596
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: a big article about how media was covering January six,

597
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: and you were quoted. They talked about you, They threw

598
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: Buck and I in there. Tucker Carlson, what did you

599
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: think of the New York Times article and what kind

600
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: of feedback, if any, did you get because you were

601
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: a big part of their story. What was supposed to

602
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: be a hit piece on the way that so called

603
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: conservative media is covering January six. But I actually thought

604
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: the way it read it actually sounded super logical. On

605
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: many different levels. I think so too, And it was

606
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: great to be in such a good company, including you guys,

607
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: Thank you and Tucker and others. You know, because we

608
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: have been running counter to the official regime narrative and

609
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: in many instances, and the Sicknic cases one, unfortunately, we

610
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: have been right. And I knew that a reason. I

611
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 1: knew that these new charges dropping, the charges were coming,

612
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: and I knew that. That's why the New York Times

613
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: tried to sneer me as somehow downplaying what happened to

614
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: Brian Sicknic. Well, now we've been proven right again. So

615
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: that's that's part of what the New York Times does.

616
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: So that was their their predicate for publishing that we're

617
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: speaking of. Julie Kelly, Political Commentating, your commentator contributed to

618
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: American Greatness, author of January six, how Democrats use the

619
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: capital protest to launch a war on terror against the

620
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: political right. Julie, to that end, about the weaponization here

621
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: against the political right and disloyal opposition from the government.

622
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: You saw that Washington Post piece. I'm sure that is

623
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: trying to at least create the perception, maybe the belief

624
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump himself may be charged. You mentioned the

625
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: possible insurrection seditious insurrection charge against him, or conspiracy to

626
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: commit insurrection, whatever it is that however they're going to

627
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 1: phrase it. Do you think they actually might do this, Julie,

628
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what Cla and I are going back

629
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: and forth all this. Do you think they'll pull the

630
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: trigger on this and come what may from just what

631
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: this would do to the country? Well, first, I want

632
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 1: to know who thinks the DOJ is going to charge that? Okay, So, Julie,

633
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: my argument is if the DOJ charges Hunter Biden, which

634
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: I think they will, that they're going to use that

635
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: as political cover to potentially charge Trump, and they'll say,

636
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: whether you are the son of the president or the

637
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: former president, Justice demands that we pursue it no matter

638
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: who the defendant might be. So my theory is they

639
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: may use Hunter Biden charges as cover to charge Trump

640
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: with conspiracy. Interesting, That's what I said. But what do

641
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: you think about them just charging Trump period? You think

642
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: they might do it under any circumstance? Ninety nine point

643
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: nine percent absolutely confident that this DOJ is going to

644
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: indict him. This is the purpose of the January sixth

645
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: Committee is to build a public and political case against

646
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, especially related to the alleged two alleged militia groups.

647
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: This DOJ has not been held accountable for repeatedly lying

648
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: in court into a grand jury about what happened on

649
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: January sixth. These judges in DC are letting DJ get

650
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: away with anything. So I'm confident that if Matthew Raves,

651
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: the DCUs attorney and Biden campaign advisor, is presenting information

652
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: to a grandjury made up of DC residence so the

653
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: of course that mooted almost ninety four percent for Joe Biden.

654
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: They be chomping at the bit to indict Donald Trump

655
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: for anything, including this exceedingly rare charge of seditious conspiracy,

656
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: a charge no American has ever been convicted of. And

657
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: the last time DJ even tried to prosecute anyone with

658
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: seditious conspiracy in twenty eleven, federal judge in Michigan tossed

659
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 1: the charges out of court. That's how unusual and rare

660
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: this account is. Julie, what do you think the timing

661
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: would be on bringing If you're ninety nine point nine

662
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: percent certain that charges are going to come, when do

663
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: you think the DJ would bring them? I would guess

664
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: sometimes September. I believe this will probably be the October surprise.

665
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: It will be the latest DOJ October surprise to interfere

666
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: in an election and there's nothing to stop them. Julie,

667
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 1: Kelly Craig call it a shot here in the upper deck.

668
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: My friend, she's about to see Swig in the back too.

669
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 1: That's a big call to make October surprise Trump gets indicted, Julie,

670
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: we appreciate you. How can people who want to and

671
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: I've done this myself, so I would encourage everyone out

672
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: there listening to do it as well. How can people

673
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: donate so that these January sixth defendants can have legal

674
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: representation to help them fight the charges that they are

675
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: all facing. How can people help them get better attorneys? Well, Clay,

676
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: thank you for that. As you've donated to Patriot Freedom Project.

677
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: It is a fun that is helping to pay for

678
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: lawyers and the financial burden of families who are ensnared

679
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: in this abusive prosecution. I also would ask people to

680
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: check out George Turnius's gives end go account because he's

681
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 1: really been destroyed to support this narrative about Brian Sicknick.

682
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: And so those are two places people who want to

683
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: help financially, or even if they can't, send a letter

684
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: to some of the detainees. I know that it's greatly appreciated, Julie.

685
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: Fantastic work. As always, we appreciate the time, and we

686
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: will keep you on the dial here as these January

687
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: six prosecutions continue. All right, guys, thank you so much. July.

688
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm up in New York City right now. Buck, you

689
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: know what I'm wearing. My Wolf and Shepherd shoes in

690
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: studio right now. Is on Fox and Friends this morning.

691
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: Don't have to take my word forward. You can just

692
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: see full body shots sitting down right next to Steve.

693
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: They are in the student You will see it and

694
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: you will say, you know what, those shoes look fantastic

695
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: because they're comfortable enough to wear all over the city.

696
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: But they are also business ready Italian leather shoes on top,

697
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: sneaker soul on the bottom. It makes a big difference.

698
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: Combine them online. Maybe you're out there right now and

699
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: when you're a husband or your boyfriend, you go out

700
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: to events, maybe he's shown up and you've been like,

701
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: I can't believe you wore that here. In fact, I've

702
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: been every woman out there listening right now, has said

703
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: to the man in her life at some point, I

704
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 1: can't believe that's what you pick to wear. Go ahead

705
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: and take care of his shoe issues forever with Wolf

706
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: and Shepherd. He will love them all day. You can

707
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: wear him to work, you can wear them out to dinner.

708
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: You can wear them to walk around in the city

709
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: and live your life. Wolf and Shepherd dot Com. No

710
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: promo code needed. You can join the pack. You can

711
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: join Buck and I. We are sitting in these shoes

712
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: right now in the studio. All you have to do

713
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: is go to Wolf and Shepherd dot com. That is

714
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: epford spelled shp hrd, speaking truth and having fun. Clay

715
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 1: Travis and Buck Sexton, Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck

716
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: Sexton show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.

717
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: We are joined now by Raphael Mangel. He is a

718
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: Senior Fellow, head of Research for the Policing and Public

719
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 1: Safety Initiative at the Manhattan Institute, contributing editor of City Journal,

720
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: also the author of Criminal in Justice. Raphael, you're in

721
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: studio with us here in New York. Appreciate you being here.

722
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: Buck and I have been talking a lot about so

723
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: many of these viral New York City crimes that have

724
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: been caught on video that have spread. Most recently, I'm

725
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: sure you've seen it, a sixteen year old kid fighting

726
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: with a police officer in the subway, been everywhere of

727
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: that video. What's going on in New York City? Based

728
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: on the research and data that you have, are you

729
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: optimistic in any way that things are getting better? Are

730
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: we going to get worse from here? How did we

731
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: get to this place where crime is an omnipresent fear

732
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: for a huge majority of people in the country right now? Well,

733
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm not optimistic at all. I do think things are

734
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: going to get worse for quite a bit of time.

735
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: And part of this because we've made so many serious

736
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 1: structural changes to our criminal justice system, to our policing

737
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: system over the last several years, everything from bail reform,

738
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: to discovery reform, to the Right to No Act to

739
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, the real discouragement of proactive policing tactics, stop

740
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: and frisk, what have you. That our criminal justice system

741
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: no longer has an infrastructure in place to kind of

742
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: keep up with the pace of crime as it's gone up.

743
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: And so I think we've been caught off guard as

744
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: a city, and until we make the decision to kind

745
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: of re establish those those pieces of that puzzle that

746
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: need to kind of work in concert with one another,

747
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: we're going to find things are going to get worse

748
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: for a while. I mean, you know the case you mentioned,

749
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: the six real fighting with police officers. I think one

750
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: of the most interesting things about that case is that

751
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: that kid had previous charges that involved are in robbery,

752
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: firearm possession. This is, you know, someone who arguably probably

753
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been on the street at that time. And

754
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: what we're seeing a lot more of are these really

755
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: heinous offenses committed by people who have fifteen twenty prior. Yeah, well,

756
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: it's clear that there's no fear of the justice system,

757
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: right if if you're if you've already been caught. We're

758
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: not even talking about people that get away with things.

759
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: I mean, one part clay of the analysis of the

760
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 1: Baltimore crime situation that I think didn't get nearly enough

761
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: attention is that one in three they they're solving one

762
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: in three one in three murders. Saw that means two

763
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: out of three they're not even solving. But so people

764
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: even who are caught never mind. Those we're getting away

765
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: with things don't have any fear of the criminal justice systems.

766
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: So Raphael, I want to know when you dig into

767
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: this and you're looking at all the data, the numbers,

768
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: and how these systems are functioning of criminal justice so

769
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: poorly that they're not keeping people safe. That the city

770
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: numbers are showing New York sent friend La Houston, we

771
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: can't name all that. There's too many cities with the

772
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: crime going up fifty one hundred arrests. How does that happen?

773
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 1: Meaning like, what where are the breakdowns of this system

774
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: where some guy there you go, oh, we found the

775
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: guy who you know murdered the liquor store clerk yesterday.

776
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: Turns out he was arrested fifty times. How did he

777
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: get to arrest fifty without ever serving a long stretch

778
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: ten fifteen years in prison? Because our criminal justice system

779
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: is a lot more lenient than people would have you believe. Right,

780
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 1: there's this narrative in our country that's kind of taken

781
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: hold in the mainstream for decades now, and that narrative

782
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: says that we systematically deny people second chances. Right, we

783
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: have second chance month in the United States. You look

784
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: at the average person in prison in the United States today,

785
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: they have eleven prior arrests in nearly five prior convictions.

786
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: We are not systematically denying people's second chances. We are

787
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: giving them chance after chance after chance. In cities like Chicago,

788
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: the average person charged with a shooting rahamicide has twelve

789
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: prior arrest Twenty percent have more than twenty prior arrests.

790
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: The reality is is that our criminal justice system has

791
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: always kind of used lengthy terms of incarceration is sort

792
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: of a last resort. Only forty percent of people who

793
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: are convicted of a felony at the state level are

794
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: then sentenced to a post conviction prison sentence. People think that,

795
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: you know, you get caught a little bit of weed

796
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: and you're going away for ten years the rative end

797
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: mass incarceration, and some guy was caught with the marijuana cigarette. No,

798
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: he's serving fifty years. That's not what's actually happening. Well,

799
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: how does racism as a fear, or rather concerns of

800
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: racism within this system, how has that shaped the current

801
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,959
Speaker 1: criminal justice reality. Well, I think that's put defenders of

802
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: the sort of traditional institutions that they constitute our law

803
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: enforcement apparatus on their back foot because it's a really

804
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: hard topic to discuss, especially given the heightened tensions around

805
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 1: that topic. And so people have really kind of leaned

806
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: into the narrative that our criminal justice system is structurally

807
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: racist in a bunch of different ways by highlighting these

808
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: disparities and enforcement highlighting racial disparities and arrests and police

809
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: use of force and incarcerations. But often gets left out

810
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: of that conversation, though, is that there's another side to

811
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: that ledger, Right, there's criminal victimizations, and those aren't evenly

812
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: distributed either. Right. We're in New York City right now,

813
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: a minimum, a minimum of ninety five percent of all

814
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 1: shooting victims every single year for which we have data

815
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: are either black or Hispanic, almost all of them men.

816
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: That's one of the starkest, most persistent racial disparities in

817
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: our criminal justice data, and we hear almost nothing about

818
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: it from the advocates, right. And so when you start

819
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: to take those realities into account, you start to realize

820
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: two things. One that we have to sort of take

821
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: the disparities with a little bit of a grain of salt,

822
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: because we have to control for the realities that that

823
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: concentration of crime leads to which is a disproportionate deployment

824
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: of police resources to communities where they're needed the most.

825
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: I remember back in the nineties where the sort of

826
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: critique of the NYPD was that they weren't responsive enough

827
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: to black crime. Right, you hear it in rap music.

828
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: You know, they respond in five minutes to nine and

829
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: one call in a white neighborhood, but it takes twenty

830
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: minutes to get a response in the black neighborhood. And

831
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 1: this was the critique. Well, now the criminal justice system

832
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: has become more responsive to crime that is concentrating in

833
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: low income minority communities, and that means that we have

834
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: to accept that the interactions police have are going to

835
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: reflect that reality, that the number of people arrested for

836
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: certain crimes are going to reflect that reality. And if

837
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: you're uncomfortable with those disparities and the enforcement statistics, I

838
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: ask people, why would you be comfortable with the disparities

839
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: and the victimization statistics. Right? We know that the homicide

840
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: decline from nineteen ninety two fourteen added a whole year

841
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: of life expectancy to the average black man in the

842
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: United States, It only added zero point one four years

843
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: of life expectancy to the average white man. So, as people,

844
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: why would a system that you say is designed and

845
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: operated to oppress low income minority communities produce such benefits

846
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: that are unequally distributed within these communities when the system

847
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: achieves it stated end, as stated by the people at

848
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: the system's home. Ask any police chief in America, what

849
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: do you want to achieve crime declines? Who's that going

850
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: to help? Not rich white people. That is a phenomenal analysis,

851
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: by the way, and an easy analogy to draw here too,

852
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: for if people out there are having to fight back

853
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: against the racism argument we use on this show, are

854
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: police sexist? They overwhelmingly arrest in right? That isn't because

855
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: they're out there trying to arrest men. It's because men

856
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly commit violent crimes and as a result, are wildly

857
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: and disproportionately represented in the people who are put behind

858
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: mars for violent crime. All right, so you have a

859
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: magic wand they come to you, Well, we'll use New

860
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: York City as an example, because we're sitting here right now,

861
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: and they say, you get to implement three policies that

862
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: you believe or a couple of policies. What should we

863
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: be doing to drive down violent crime? You're given a

864
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: magic wand you don't have to worry about the political

865
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: attacks everything else. What would happen that you could implement

866
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: it as a result to lower violent crime in your mind?

867
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: One thing that people don't mention nearly enough is that

868
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: I would drastically increase the funding directed at our criminal

869
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: justice system. One of the reasons we talk about issues

870
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: like bail reform, etc. Are largely a function of how

871
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: long it takes a case to get from filing to disposition,

872
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: which is influences how long people stand to spend. As

873
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: tell you, I have a long time friend in the

874
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: District Disattorney's office in New York. We said one thing

875
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: that no one focused on at all was that in

876
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 1: response to some of these these you know, anti police

877
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: sort of pro I don't know pro crimes, how do

878
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: you describe it, but that the cops are two rough groups,

879
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: was that they change the requirements for how much like

880
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: they essentially made the burden paperwork and bureaucratic burden of

881
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: bringing every prosecution so high that it dramatically dropped down

882
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: the number of actual cases ADAS can bring. Just in

883
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: terms of man hours. They just said, we needed so

884
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: much paperwork and so much stuff that we can't even

885
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: spend the hours to bring the prosecutions we wanted. And

886
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: on top of that, there was no additional funding given

887
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: for them to comply with that additional burden, right. I mean,

888
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: we see this across the criminal justice system. You know,

889
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: lots of people complain about overcrowding in prisons. Every time

890
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: you try to spend money on you know, increasing our

891
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: carsol capacity, what do you hear, no new jails, right,

892
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: lots of people complained. You know, I want to impose

893
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: new requirements on police to you know, file all kinds

894
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: of paperwork, comply with corporate monitors, etc. Again, no new

895
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: funding added for that. The idea is, I think, is

896
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: that we want to starve this beast by giving it

897
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: all this additional work to do, and then we're not

898
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: going to fund that effort at all, and then we'll

899
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: get less policing. We'll get less prosecution, less incarceration, because

900
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: that's what we really want. Fine, I wish there would

901
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: be a little more open about that. But fine, but

902
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: then let's have the debate about what that means for

903
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: the communities you claim to represent because again, crime is

904
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: not evenly distributed. In New York City. Five percent of

905
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: street segments see fifty percent of all crime, three and

906
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: a half percent of street segmentsy fifty percent of all

907
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: violent crime. Right, if you live on the Upper West

908
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: Side of Manhattan and a nice building with a doorman,

909
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: you know the police can reduce stops and frisks by

910
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: ninety percent. Your life's probably not going to change. But

911
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: if you live in Brownsville, Wrookland, Washington Heights, mad Haven

912
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 1: and the South Bronx, it's a very very different story,

913
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: and I think we need to tell that story more so.

914
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, one thing is additional funding. There are a

915
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: couple of you know, the discovery reform, the bail reform

916
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: I think should certainly be re examined. Police funding needs

917
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: to go up. I mean, the recruitment of retention crisis

918
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: is real. But the main thing is that we need

919
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: to get all these institutions back on the same page.

920
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: We could count on in the nineteen nineties that the police,

921
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: the prosecutor, the judges, the correctional system, the parole board,

922
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: they were all on the same page. They all wanted

923
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: to do the same thing, and that was take dangerous

924
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 1: criminals off the street to give communities room to breathe.

925
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 1: Now we can't really count on that. Oftentimes the police

926
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: are working at cross purposes with prosecutors, at cross purposes

927
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: with judges, with the judiciary, with the parole board. And

928
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 1: so when you see somebody who's got fifty one hundred

929
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: prior arrests, But that tells you is that the police

930
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: are actually still doing a pretty good job of focusing

931
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: their resources on the people that pose the biggest dangers,

932
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: but the rest of the system is not doing that.

933
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: I can say that does hurt from the cops. I

934
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: know from my time the NPD that hurts morale at

935
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: absolutely cops really don't like having to wrestle someone to

936
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: the ground and go, oh, this is the fiftieth time

937
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: we had the same same guy. If people love what

938
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: you're saying, Raphael, and I bet there's a ton of

939
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: people out there in our audience who do how can

940
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: they find you? What can they do to read more

941
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: about your content? I mean check out you know, all

942
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: of our work at the Policing and Public Safety Initiative

943
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: at the Manhattan Institute Manhattan and DASH Institute dot Org.

944
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: I'm also contributing editor at City Journal, which has been

945
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: covering this issue for decades doing an outstanding job City

946
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: dash Journal dot org. And my book is criminal Injustice,

947
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: what the push for decarceration and d policing gets wrong.

948
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: I'n to buy a copy today. We're gonna have a

949
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: copy here on the shelf. After the reader added to

950
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: the list, fantastic. Thanks so much for fantastic man. We

951
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 1: appreciate the time. Look, we talked about it yesterday Washington, DC.

952
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: One hand, you have President Trump speaking for ninety minutes,

953
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: got tons of ideas and energy, given lots of strength

954
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: and confidence out there. On the other hand, what did

955
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: you have Joe Biden twenty seconds that they multiple cut?

956
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: Did you see that twenty seconds where he talked and

957
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 1: they had to cut it like four or five different

958
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: times because the guy could barely talk for twenty seconds.

959
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: He also had that weird deer in headlights stair going on?

960
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,840
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961
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