WEBVTT - Mud, Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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<v Speaker 2>is Robert.

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<v Speaker 3>Lamb and I am Joe McCormack. And today we are

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<v Speaker 3>going to be starting a series of episodes on mud,

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<v Speaker 3>a topic that I promise is more interesting than you

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<v Speaker 3>might think. And to get us started today, I wanted

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<v Speaker 3>to talk about a section from an English epic poem

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<v Speaker 3>that endorses the belief that mud just happens to give

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<v Speaker 3>rise to monsters or monstrous creatures of various shapes. So

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<v Speaker 3>the poem in question is a late sixteenth century epic

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<v Speaker 3>poem by the English poet Edmund Spencer called The Fairy Queen.

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<v Speaker 3>I took a class in college where we read this,

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<v Speaker 3>or we read part of it. To be honest, there's

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<v Speaker 3>a lot that I forget about it, but it's very

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<v Speaker 3>much your classic poem with you know, heroic knights, the

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<v Speaker 3>Red Cross Knight, and damsels in distress and witches and

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<v Speaker 3>ogres and all that. And there's an interesting passage toward

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<v Speaker 3>the beginning of The Fairy Queen. I think it's in

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<v Speaker 3>book one, canto one, where Spencer implies a belief about

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<v Speaker 3>the way nature works a belief that the mud, specifically

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<v Speaker 3>the mud of the Nile River, spawns monsters, and Spencer

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<v Speaker 3>writes quote as when old Father Nihilis gins to swell

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<v Speaker 3>with timely pride above the Egyptian veil, his fatty waves

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<v Speaker 3>do fertile slime out well and overflow each plane and

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<v Speaker 3>lowly dale. But when his later spring gins to a

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<v Speaker 3>veil huge heaps of mud, he leaves wherein their breed

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<v Speaker 3>ten thousand kinds of creatures, partly male and partly female,

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<v Speaker 3>of his fruitful seed, such ugly monstrous shapes elsewhere may

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<v Speaker 3>no man read. And then Spencer later cites the same

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<v Speaker 3>belief again as a kind of illustration of a general principle.

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<v Speaker 3>He writes, but reason teacheth that the fruitful seeds of

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<v Speaker 3>all things living through impression of the sunbeams in moist complexion,

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<v Speaker 3>do life conceive and quickened are by kind. So after

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<v Speaker 3>Nihilus inundation, infinite shapes of creatures men do find informed

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<v Speaker 3>in the mud on which the sun hath shined. So

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<v Speaker 3>I think he seems to be saying, like mud plus

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<v Speaker 3>sunshine equals monsters, or at least creatures of infinite shapes,

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<v Speaker 3>which in some passages he seems to think might be monsters.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe among infinite variation, there will necessarily be some monsters.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm interested in this belief because, on one hand,

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<v Speaker 3>it just sort of reflects some ancient beliefs that are

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<v Speaker 3>carried over into the medieval and Renaissance period about where

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<v Speaker 3>life comes from, ideas now obsolete theories like spontaneous generation

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<v Speaker 3>that you know that life forms, which is sort of

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<v Speaker 3>like arise in the mud or in like a wet

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<v Speaker 3>bag of flour or something. But I also like it

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<v Speaker 3>because it imagines the mud in the floodplain of a

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<v Speaker 3>great river like the Nile as a as a source

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<v Speaker 3>of both like sort of mystery and danger, but also

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<v Speaker 3>great possibility. And this does correspond to the kind of

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<v Speaker 3>the double nature of mud and of a river like

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<v Speaker 3>the Nile. So you think of the Nile River delta,

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<v Speaker 3>it is a place of incredibly fertile soil that you

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<v Speaker 3>know that supplies food and crops for all of the

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<v Speaker 3>areas around. But also if you know you get stuck

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<v Speaker 3>in the mud, that's a place you don't want to be,

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<v Speaker 3>and it is a place where you will find lots

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<v Speaker 3>of life that is maybe life that's kind of strange

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<v Speaker 3>to you. You don't usually go wading into the mud,

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<v Speaker 3>and if you do, I don't know all kinds of

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<v Speaker 3>weird little mollusks and creepy crawleys and critters are in there,

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<v Speaker 3>and you don't know what you might find.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, this is really interesting. We should also note,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it does accurately, though monstrously, refer to the

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<v Speaker 2>the the inundation of the Nile, which is a topic

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<v Speaker 2>we did an entire episode at least one episode on

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<v Speaker 2>in the past. I mean, the Nile overflows its banks

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<v Speaker 2>and it brings life and has this this very prominent

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<v Speaker 2>role in especially an ancient Egyptian belief and mythology. But yeah, this,

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<v Speaker 2>this dual nature of mud is quite interesting and something

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<v Speaker 2>that that we're going to be talking about quite a

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<v Speaker 2>bit in these episodes, because it at once it is

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<v Speaker 2>like you want to build something, well, you're gonna need

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<v Speaker 2>something like mud or mud itself. But of course it's

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<v Speaker 2>also the place where you know, many a famous military

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<v Speaker 2>campaign has perished in the mud, So you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing from which monsters emerge, but it's all you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the thing where you might find a pig, but

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<v Speaker 2>you also will find gleaming butterflies, you know, cascading and

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<v Speaker 2>swirling around something, some stinking pile of mud. Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 2>does seem to have this dual nature, at least from

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<v Speaker 2>the human vantage point.

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<v Speaker 3>So our goal is after we're done with this series,

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<v Speaker 3>you will never think about mud the same way. And

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<v Speaker 3>when it gets stuck to your shoes, you might still

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<v Speaker 3>be mad, but there will also be a part of

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<v Speaker 3>you that that's kind of reflective and stops to be

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<v Speaker 3>amazed at what it is. Your dog has just gotten

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<v Speaker 3>all over your couch.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if you're like me too, just even thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about this topic, it means that you've had the Primus

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<v Speaker 2>song my Name is Mud just flipped on in your brain.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't even listened to it to encourage or extinguish it,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's just there as I read these various papers

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<v Speaker 2>about mud or mmama mud, Right, I guess that's the

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<v Speaker 2>way it's said, and so I'll take your word for it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a solid jam. It's got some colossal bass and

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<v Speaker 2>drums on there.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, that's Primus. They rattle the furniture. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>we should go straight to the question what is mud?

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<v Speaker 3>What is it made? Of In general, mud seems to

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<v Speaker 3>have a kind of loose definition. We all know it

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<v Speaker 3>when we see it, but there may not be strict

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<v Speaker 3>scientific criteria about what counts, except maybe in certain contexts,

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<v Speaker 3>like when you're talking when you get to some things

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<v Speaker 3>we'll get to in a minute about like particle size

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<v Speaker 3>and what solidifies into certain kinds of rock. But just generally,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, mud is some sort of wet soil, but

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<v Speaker 3>exactly how wet, Exactly what are the properties of the

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<v Speaker 3>soil for it to count as mud versus just being

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<v Speaker 3>kind of like, I don't know, damp, gross stuff that

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<v Speaker 3>might be in the eye of the beholder of the

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<v Speaker 3>beat or of the bee treader.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would, I would. I think that sometimes we

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<v Speaker 2>know it when we see it, but we definitely know

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<v Speaker 2>it when we step on it or step in it.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess that's the thing, right, If I'm able to

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<v Speaker 2>step on it, well maybe it's not fully mud. But

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm in it, well I am in mud now.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think the other Yeah. The other interesting thing

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<v Speaker 2>about mud is a lot of it does depend on

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<v Speaker 2>where you're coming from, you know, like if you were

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<v Speaker 2>a domestic hog, well, mud is just simply good there's

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<v Speaker 2>not much else to say about that, though we will

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<v Speaker 2>get into how various animals use mud later on in

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<v Speaker 2>a subsequent episode, but just from the human perspective, it's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of interesting. One of the books I was looking at,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll come back to later when we get more

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<v Speaker 2>in depth on this is a book titled Mud, a

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<v Speaker 2>Military History by ce Wood, which, if you haven't thought

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<v Speaker 2>about it much before, or you haven't you're not like

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<v Speaker 2>a military history enthusiast, you might not realize that, Oh yeah, mud.

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<v Speaker 2>Mud is the sort of thing that you could write

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<v Speaker 2>an entire book about just from the perspective of war

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<v Speaker 2>and military operations. But that's what this book is.

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<v Speaker 3>When I think of mud and armed conflict. Obviously, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>terrain and especially mud have played a big role in

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<v Speaker 3>worse throughout history, but I think especially of Eastern Europe

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<v Speaker 3>for some reason.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, big big war machines, big tanks stuck in the mud,

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<v Speaker 2>or has a Wood mentions a time or two the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of one of these colossal tanks just going down

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<v Speaker 2>a muddy hill as if it were like a sled

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<v Speaker 2>on a snowfield or something, you know, just out of control.

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<v Speaker 2>Things like that occurring mud changes what you can and

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<v Speaker 2>can't do in many instances any with things ranging from

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<v Speaker 2>infantry to horses to modern industrial war machines. But like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, we'll get back to that more in the future.

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<v Speaker 2>But I thought it was interesting that Wood opens just

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with this basic ambiguity concerning mud and writes that, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>if we're going to be just very broad about it,

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<v Speaker 2>it comes down to soil consisting of mineral and organic

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<v Speaker 2>matter combined with moisture at such a level relative to

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<v Speaker 2>the exact compositions of the soil to make it unstable

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<v Speaker 2>and likely to move and flow underfoot or underhoof or

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<v Speaker 2>under wheeler track, etc. Wood points out that while many

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<v Speaker 2>military minds have considered mud and other soil issues beneath

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<v Speaker 2>their strategic consideration, but they have always done so at

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<v Speaker 2>their peril, because mud, as we'll get into later, does

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<v Speaker 2>make a difference in war has come to very famously

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<v Speaker 2>define certain war zones. He points out that not everyone

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<v Speaker 2>has certainly ignored this fact, and in nineteen forty four,

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<v Speaker 2>the US Army conducted a series of tests regarding mud.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, all right, let's get down to it. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>classify some mud because we have only so many resources

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<v Speaker 2>for our rubber tires, so we needed to decide where

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<v Speaker 2>we need to send them, where we need to prioritize

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<v Speaker 2>our best tires. And so this is a situation where

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<v Speaker 2>we're dealing with sort of a narrowed perspective concerning mud.

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<v Speaker 2>This is just mud concerning like, let me roll some

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<v Speaker 2>vehicles across it. But they classified mud into two types

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<v Speaker 2>and two subtypes. Okay, Type one bottomless mud. Now, this

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<v Speaker 2>just means that the MUD's consistency cannot support a vehicle

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<v Speaker 2>with tires that have twenty pounds of pressure, or that

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<v Speaker 2>the underlying hard layer of earth beneath the mud beneath

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<v Speaker 2>the layer of mud is too far beneath the vehicle's

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<v Speaker 2>ground clearance.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so this sounds like dangerous mud.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is the mud that your vehicle is going

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<v Speaker 2>to get stuck in and or sink into. And then

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<v Speaker 2>Type two is just all other types of mud. But

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<v Speaker 2>this does feature two subtypes, Type A and type B.

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<v Speaker 2>Type A has a quote unquote cleaning quality, meaning that

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<v Speaker 2>it contains enough moisture to work as a liquid. So

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<v Speaker 2>like this, like type A mud gets on your vehicle

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<v Speaker 2>and you know it kind of flows off. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>it's I don't think cleaning quality means that your tank

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<v Speaker 2>or your truck is going to be clean after the

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<v Speaker 2>mud has a rent sofa a little bit. Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 2>flows away, but it's it's this a cleaning quality Type

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<v Speaker 2>B is adhesive or sticky. So this is the mud

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<v Speaker 2>in type of mud. This is the type of mud

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<v Speaker 2>that the big pickup pickup truck driver seeks out when

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<v Speaker 2>they go out into the wilderness to make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>they return to city life with a vehicle completely encased

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<v Speaker 2>in mud. Okay, So more on the military angle later on.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is not necessarily a helpful way to understand

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<v Speaker 2>mud as a whole, but rather to a way to

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<v Speaker 2>underline that the meaning of mud kind of depends on

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<v Speaker 2>what you're trying to do in it or through it,

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<v Speaker 2>and mud therefore could be your threat or your treasure,

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<v Speaker 2>depending on what you're looking to get out of the situation.

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<v Speaker 3>Very true. Now, I found an article that I thought

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<v Speaker 3>was helpful. It was from two thousand and three in

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<v Speaker 3>the Washington Post, and being in the Washington Post, I

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<v Speaker 3>would say a little overly concerned with these specific types

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<v Speaker 3>of mud found around the Washington d C. Metro area,

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<v Speaker 3>but I'm mostly ignoring those parts because it does helpfully

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<v Speaker 3>consult a bunch of soil scientists on the definitions and

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<v Speaker 3>categories of mud. So it was called a World Gone

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<v Speaker 3>Mud by Joel Aikenbach from June fifteenth, two thousand and three.

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<v Speaker 3>First of all, it consults a researcher named Trish Steinhilber

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<v Speaker 3>from the University of Maryland Agricultural Nutrient Management Program, who says,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we would just call it wet soil, So

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<v Speaker 3>that's one perspective, it's just wet soil. But then the

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<v Speaker 3>article cites another soil physicist, or sorry, another soil researcher,

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<v Speaker 3>this time a soil physicist also from the University of

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<v Speaker 3>Maryland named Robert Hill, who says mud should be differentiated

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<v Speaker 3>from merely wet soil because it has different physical properties

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<v Speaker 3>as commonly understood, Like we've been saying, mud is sticky

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<v Speaker 3>in a way that not all wet soils are, and

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<v Speaker 3>this stickiness is due to the presence of a higher

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<v Speaker 3>proportion of smaller particles, especially clay particles. So, as you

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<v Speaker 3>probably know, soil is made from a mixture of different materials.

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<v Speaker 3>Some of those materials are organic, so they can be

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<v Speaker 3>decaying organic matter or decaying bits of plants and animals

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.080
<v Speaker 3>and all that, but also inorganic matter, and we're going

0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.320
<v Speaker 3>to focus on the inorganic matter for the moment. The

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:24.480
<v Speaker 3>inorganic solid particles that make up soil are generally produced

0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.559
<v Speaker 3>by the erosion and breakdown of larger rocks over time,

0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.360
<v Speaker 3>which can happen due to physical forces like wind, rain,

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 3>and ice, or it can be due to break down

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 3>by organisms like fungi and bacteria. And we all know

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.080
<v Speaker 3>soil can have different consistencies. You stick your hands into

0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.199
<v Speaker 3>the soil in one place, it just feels different than

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.280
<v Speaker 3>the soil in another place. One of the major factors

0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 3>that you can use to sort soil into different categories

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:56.320
<v Speaker 3>is the average particle size in the soil. So if

0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 3>particles are bigger than two millimeters, that's gravel. You know

0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.240
<v Speaker 3>that's going to pop under your car tire. Particles of

0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 3>less than two millimeters in diameter but more than zero

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 3>point zero five millimeters are sand. Then smaller than sand,

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 3>you've got silt, which is made of particles less than

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 3>zero point zero five millimeters in diameter. And then at

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.680
<v Speaker 3>the very bottom, the finest grain soil is clay, which

0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 3>means particles smaller than zero point zero zero two millimeters

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.200
<v Speaker 3>in diameter. Now, apart from particle size, there are also

0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 3>some at least common chemical properties you'll find at these

0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.920
<v Speaker 3>different areas, like they tend to derive from different types

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.800
<v Speaker 3>of minerals, like clay typically features a standard mineral constituent,

0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.480
<v Speaker 3>which is hydrous aluminum philosilicates. But for the moment, we

0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.320
<v Speaker 3>can just think about these as particles of different sizes.

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 3>So by one definition, any sufficiently wet soil made of

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 3>any mixture of these particles could be mud. But if

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.240
<v Speaker 3>you're going with the definition of mud as sticky slop

0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 3>that kind of sucks to the bottom of your shoes

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 3>and you might get stuck in it usually means it's

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.960
<v Speaker 3>made up of mostly silt and clay sized particles, silt

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 3>sized and clay sized particles, and things get especially sticky

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 3>if it has a lot of clay.

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.240
<v Speaker 2>And again there's this fine line, like I know, I

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 2>instantly think back to some cave environments that I've been in,

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 2>and mud at just the right consistency, it's like it's sticky,

0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.240
<v Speaker 2>but you're not slipping in it. It's almost something you

0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 2>want to walk on, but that line is very thin

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:46.040
<v Speaker 2>between between that and like the treacherous mud that you

0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 2>will slip in. So it's fascinating when you start getting

0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 2>into the way this breaks down.

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, is the mud grippy like maybe rubber? Or will

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 3>it fly out from under you like a banana peel?

0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 3>And that does I think come down to something having

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 3>to do with the water content as well as the

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:09.000
<v Speaker 3>particle size. So if mud is wet soil or sticky

0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 3>wet soil, we've explained the soil part it tends to

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 3>be the smaller particle sizes clay sized and silt sized

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 3>particles that make mud, But there's also the wetness angle.

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 3>How wet does soil have to be for it to

0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 3>be mud. Here we get to the concept of cohesive

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:30.360
<v Speaker 3>soil and what are called adderberg limits. So Cohesive soils

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 3>are soils that tend to stick or clump together as

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 3>opposed to crumbling. Cohesive soils tend to have again, more

0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:44.119
<v Speaker 3>clay sized particles. Smaller particles stick together better, and cohesive

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 3>soils can be in three states, depending on how wet

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 3>they are. These states are non plastic, plastic, and viscous.

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 3>Non Plastic means hard difficult to mold or deform. This

0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.200
<v Speaker 3>is usually when they're dry. Cohesive soils dry up kind

0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.159
<v Speaker 3>of hard like bricks, and they form tough earth, so

0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 3>you can think about like hard clay ground, you know

0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 3>what that's like. When cohesive soils get wet, though, they

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 3>can cross one of these Adderberg limits, that the plastic limit,

0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 3>and become plastic. So this means they become soft or moldable,

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 3>So think about wet clay and then beyond that limit,

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.720
<v Speaker 3>there's another limit, another limit, which is the liquid limit,

0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.879
<v Speaker 3>and this is the viscous stage where there's sort of

0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.119
<v Speaker 3>like a liquid goop. So you can add water to

0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.679
<v Speaker 3>non plastic soil until it crosses the plastic limit, becomes

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.639
<v Speaker 3>soft and mouldable. You can add more water until it

0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.920
<v Speaker 3>crosses the liquid limit. Where the liquid limit is explained

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 3>in this Washington Post article as if you cut a

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 3>groove in the mud, the mud will flow back in

0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.080
<v Speaker 3>to fill it. That's the liquid limit, which actually has

0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 3>some analogies in the culinary world, like if you ever

0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.399
<v Speaker 3>did back of the spoon test for the thickness of

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.720
<v Speaker 3>a sauce in the kitchen. The French term for that

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 3>is nape, where if you like wipe your the tip

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.399
<v Speaker 3>of your finger along the back of a spoon coated

0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.520
<v Speaker 3>in the sauce. It should leave a trail rather than

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 3>having the sauce flow back in to fill the gap.

0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.320
<v Speaker 3>That that's nape.

0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.640
<v Speaker 2>One of the many culinary techniques in Abo. You just

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 2>like jab your fingers into things like.

0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, stick, yeah, stick your finger in the food.

0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let the meat touch your face, and that will

0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 2>determine if it is the right temperature.

0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.679
<v Speaker 3>But so, the definition of the liquid limit is that

0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 3>it does not pass the back of the spoon. Test

0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:35.400
<v Speaker 3>if you cut a groove in it, it will flow

0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.199
<v Speaker 3>back in to fill the gap. So it sounds to

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.760
<v Speaker 3>me like the definitional sweet spot for mud is a

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:47.080
<v Speaker 3>wet cohesive soil. It's made primarily of silt or clay

0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 3>sized particles, especially if there's a lot of clay sized

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:54.959
<v Speaker 3>particles that is above the plastic limit and below the

0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 3>liquid limit. Somewhere in there, though, I was thinking that

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 3>even sort of fully liquid glop we do sometimes call mud,

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 3>don't we, But that's not usually the first kind of

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:07.440
<v Speaker 3>substance I think.

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Of, right, right, Like I come back to the example

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 2>of mud pies, you know, I think a lot of

0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.159
<v Speaker 2>us did this as a kid. If you're allowed to

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.720
<v Speaker 2>play in the mud, you get some little like pie

0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.840
<v Speaker 2>crusts or just little whatever, you know, cups and pans,

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.479
<v Speaker 2>pour the mud up, slap the mud together, and then

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 2>you set it in the sun too dry, into mud cakes.

0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.159
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's like if you're pouring it, if you're

0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 2>just complete all you know it is completely pouring it

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.639
<v Speaker 2>into the pan that doesn't really feel like mud. That's

0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.840
<v Speaker 2>just like mud water or something that's like on the

0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:43.959
<v Speaker 2>way to mud, but not mud quite yet. The moisture

0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.159
<v Speaker 2>still levels too high. And I guess in baking you

0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.360
<v Speaker 2>have variations of that as well. Right like you said

0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.600
<v Speaker 2>the sauce is too runny, the batter is too runny,

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:52.040
<v Speaker 2>et cetera.

0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.439
<v Speaker 3>I think the mudpie test is a good one. And

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.880
<v Speaker 3>you know what, that actually brings me to the next

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.200
<v Speaker 3>thing I want to talk about, which is this might

0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.560
<v Speaker 3>be something you'd never considered before. Was there a time

0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.000
<v Speaker 3>on Earth when it would have been really difficult to

0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.240
<v Speaker 3>make a mudpie? I would argue, based on some research

0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.840
<v Speaker 3>I've been reading about that, Yes, if you go back

0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.919
<v Speaker 3>before or five hundred million years ago, go to the

0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.879
<v Speaker 3>pre Cambrian period, and you walk around on Earth's continents

0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 3>trying to find a place to make a mudpie, You're

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.880
<v Speaker 3>gonna probably strike out. You're going to be out of luck,

0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:42.560
<v Speaker 3>because there was a time basically before there was mud

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.400
<v Speaker 3>on land on Earth, or before there was very much

0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.160
<v Speaker 3>mud to be found on land. So here I want

0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:50.960
<v Speaker 3>to go to an article I was reading in the

0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:55.440
<v Speaker 3>journal Science in the year twenty eighteen by Woodward Fisher,

0:20:55.520 --> 0:21:00.639
<v Speaker 3>who is a Caltech geobiologist. The article is called Early

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:04.760
<v Speaker 3>Plants and the Rise of Mud, and this article is

0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:10.600
<v Speaker 3>primarily summarizing and contextualizing a study that was published by

0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.760
<v Speaker 3>a couple of different authors in the same issue of

0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.680
<v Speaker 3>the journal Science in twenty eighteen. This article is very

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:22.480
<v Speaker 3>good in putting these findings in context. So Fisher mentions

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.439
<v Speaker 3>that you know, life on Earth has several times that

0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:32.960
<v Speaker 3>we know about reshaped fundamental geophysical features and processes at

0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.000
<v Speaker 3>the Earth's surface. There are ways in which you could

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 3>say that life has fundamentally changed the planet itself, at

0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.000
<v Speaker 3>least what's happening on the surface and in the atmosphere.

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 3>So perhaps the first example that will likely come to

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:51.480
<v Speaker 3>your mind is the oxygenation of the oceans in the atmosphere.

0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:56.080
<v Speaker 3>It was the evolution of photosynthesis in cyanobacteria and other

0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.400
<v Speaker 3>life forms that triggered this shift. You know, we didn't

0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:04.160
<v Speaker 3>always have an oxygen atmosphere. Another major geophysical change triggered

0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.399
<v Speaker 3>by life that Fisher mentions is the evolution of mineral

0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:14.560
<v Speaker 3>skeletons by life forms, again particularly algae, and the presence

0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 3>of those skeletons change the way that ocean floors are

0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 3>formed and then subsequently the kinds of rock layers that

0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.360
<v Speaker 3>would form when they solidified over the eons. But this

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:30.160
<v Speaker 3>article is focused on another discovery of this sort, how

0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:35.360
<v Speaker 3>the evolution of land based plants changed the Earth by

0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:39.840
<v Speaker 3>affecting mud. So the citation for the study here is

0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.679
<v Speaker 3>William J. McMahon and Neil S. Davies. The article is

0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:48.320
<v Speaker 3>called evolution of alluvial mud rock forced by early land

0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:53.920
<v Speaker 3>plants again Journal Science, twenty eighteen. So when soil made

0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:57.800
<v Speaker 3>mostly out of clay or silt sized particles gets compacted

0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:02.560
<v Speaker 3>in the ground and lithifies into the resulting rock layer

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.320
<v Speaker 3>is called mud rock, and there are many kinds of

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.920
<v Speaker 3>mud rock. When geologists look for layers of mud rock

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:15.119
<v Speaker 3>from the past, they notice something interesting. There is extremely

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:20.480
<v Speaker 3>little mud rock from river bottoms and floodplains before a

0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 3>certain geologic period in the history of the Earth. So

0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.679
<v Speaker 3>if you look in the pre Cambrian era or the

0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:31.080
<v Speaker 3>early Paleozoic era, there's very little mud rock on the continents.

0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.160
<v Speaker 3>And I'll do a little refresher on the basic geologic

0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:37.439
<v Speaker 3>timeline of the early to mid Palaeozoic. So you've got

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 3>the Cambrian period, this is roughly five hundred million years ago.

0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:47.240
<v Speaker 3>Before the Cambrian period, most life on Earth is small, soft,

0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:52.200
<v Speaker 3>and unicellular. And then the Cambrian period represents a sort

0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:56.400
<v Speaker 3>of explosion of life, a massive proliferation in the diversity

0:23:56.400 --> 0:24:00.399
<v Speaker 3>of life forms. Life Forms get bigger, more complex, with

0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.760
<v Speaker 3>hard body parts that get fossilized. So think of the

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.679
<v Speaker 3>age of trilobites and anomalo icaris. That's a period of

0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:10.400
<v Speaker 3>like forty or fifty million years, roughly five hundred million

0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 3>years ago. And then you've got after that the Ortavician period,

0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.440
<v Speaker 3>which is about four hundred and eighty five to four

0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:20.760
<v Speaker 3>hundred and forty four million years ago. More diversification of

0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:25.159
<v Speaker 3>life forms, primarily in the ocean, arthropods, molluscs, so forth,

0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:29.320
<v Speaker 3>and the appearance of the very first primitive land plants.

0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.400
<v Speaker 3>Then you've got the Silurian period, which is like four

0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:36.159
<v Speaker 3>forty four to four nineteen million years ago. Note that

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:40.240
<v Speaker 3>this is separated from the previous era by the Ordovician

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:45.160
<v Speaker 3>Silurian extinction event. There's often an extinction event separating these periods.

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:50.200
<v Speaker 3>This period shows diversification in fish and other marine fauna.

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:55.000
<v Speaker 3>But it's also important because of sort of a terrestrial revolution,

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:59.280
<v Speaker 3>the terrestrialization of many branches of life. Suddenly a lot

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.320
<v Speaker 3>more is happening on land instead of just in the ocean.

0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:07.400
<v Speaker 3>So you have the evolution of vascular plants and terrestrial fungi,

0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.600
<v Speaker 3>and these lead to changes in land ecosystems, including the

0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:15.639
<v Speaker 3>ones we're talking about now. Also, land based arthropods diversify,

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 3>so you get the ancestors of animals like spiders and

0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:22.000
<v Speaker 3>insects and so forth. And then after that, from like

0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:24.600
<v Speaker 3>four nineteen to three hundred and fifty nine million years ago,

0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 3>you've got the Devonian period, sometimes called the Age of Fishes.

0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:32.199
<v Speaker 3>Obviously there's a lot of fish diversification here, the terrestrial

0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:36.080
<v Speaker 3>revolution continues, and then later in the Devonian period, this

0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:38.879
<v Speaker 3>is the first time that you have the continents covered

0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:42.320
<v Speaker 3>in forests of plants of the kind of things we

0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:45.640
<v Speaker 3>would recognize as trees. But coming back to how this

0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:49.760
<v Speaker 3>geologic timeline relates to mud, So in the Precambrian, in

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:54.800
<v Speaker 3>continuing into the early Palaeozoic, there is very little river

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:59.040
<v Speaker 3>mud rock showing up in the geologic strata. Instead, lithified

0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:03.720
<v Speaker 3>riverbeds see to contain sand and gravel, And as the

0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:09.520
<v Speaker 3>Paleozoic era progresses, there is a rise in the formation

0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:13.440
<v Speaker 3>of mud rocks in river deposits, which seems to indicate

0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.760
<v Speaker 3>a global change in how sediment gets pushed and pulled

0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:22.159
<v Speaker 3>around by rivers, and this change is associated with the

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 3>colonization of the continents by plant life. There's an interesting

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 3>analogy which is Mars. Mars we believe once had flowing rivers,

0:26:31.040 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 3>but presumably did not have plants. And it also appears

0:26:34.760 --> 0:26:38.399
<v Speaker 3>that Mars has very little mud rock in its river deposits.

0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Though we will come back to the topic of mud

0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:44.440
<v Speaker 2>on Mars. Is there mud on Mars? You might ask,

0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 2>how we'll tune in to a future episode.

0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:52.359
<v Speaker 3>Mars needs goloshes. Yeah, So, the authors of this twenty

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:55.440
<v Speaker 3>eighteen paper McMahon and Davies. They wanted to zero in

0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:58.600
<v Speaker 3>on this change in mud rock deposition in Earth's history

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 3>and understand it better. So they were looking at samples

0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:06.159
<v Speaker 3>of rock strata from ancient river beds before and after

0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:09.520
<v Speaker 3>the land plant revolution all throughout this time period to

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 3>measure the relative amount of mud rock corresponding to the

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:17.560
<v Speaker 3>different eras, and after crunching the numbers, they concluded that

0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:21.880
<v Speaker 3>the fractional portion of mud rock in the geologic strata

0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 3>rose by more than an order of magnitude. An order

0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:29.400
<v Speaker 3>of magnitude is ten times, so more than ten times

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:32.040
<v Speaker 3>increase in the proportion of mud rock, I think in

0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:34.520
<v Speaker 3>their abstract they actually say it was one point four

0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:39.520
<v Speaker 3>orders of magnitude. This is after land plants evolved, so

0:27:39.640 --> 0:27:44.360
<v Speaker 3>when plants colonized land, it made a huge profound change

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:49.320
<v Speaker 3>in what was happening with sediment, meaning mud, primarily in

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:54.480
<v Speaker 3>river bottoms and floodplains. The increase in these rocks made

0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:59.760
<v Speaker 3>out of mud began in the late Ordovician and continuing

0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 3>to the beginning of the Silurian, and this does implicate

0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:07.520
<v Speaker 3>early land plants, but it's also interestingly it's earlier than

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 3>the researchers expected to find it, perhaps in part because

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:15.640
<v Speaker 3>or perhaps their expectations for finding increases in mud rock

0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:19.040
<v Speaker 3>in this period were low because the earliest land plants

0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 3>here they're really puny, I think, mostly like bryophytes. They're

0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 3>these kind of little patchy green things that would resemble

0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:30.960
<v Speaker 3>mosses or liver warts, so you know, we're not talking

0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:35.600
<v Speaker 3>about jungles yet. Vascular plants meaning plants that have tissues

0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 3>that allow them to grow tall because they can conduct

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 3>water and mineral nutrients up their stems. They start to

0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:46.080
<v Speaker 3>appear in the late Silurian and early Devonian, but the

0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:49.360
<v Speaker 3>earliest of these plants would only be a few centimeters

0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 3>off the ground and could only survive in wet environments.

0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:55.920
<v Speaker 3>It isn't until again the late Devonian, maybe like three

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:58.840
<v Speaker 3>hundred and seventy million years ago or so, that you

0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 3>first get what we would think of as forests landscapes

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:08.040
<v Speaker 3>thick with relatively tall vascular plants. But according to this research,

0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 3>even these earlier phases of puny, little baby plants, little mossy,

0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:15.840
<v Speaker 3>liver wardy type things, made a pretty big difference in

0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 3>how mud was distributed on the earth. But when you

0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 3>get to the later Devonian, and then into the Carboniferous

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:25.640
<v Speaker 3>period there is an even bigger shift. This is the

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 3>phase where there would again be forests of like impressive

0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:33.840
<v Speaker 3>woody trees with deep root structures, like the things we

0:29:34.160 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 3>think of as forests today. Rob I'm including an illustrated

0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:43.080
<v Speaker 3>graph with a timeline from this article for you to

0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:46.000
<v Speaker 3>look at. You can see that the amount of mud

0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:48.320
<v Speaker 3>rock starts to go up during the period of like

0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:51.880
<v Speaker 3>the bryophytes, these little primitive land plants, and then it

0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:55.480
<v Speaker 3>really reaches its peak in the era of vascular plants,

0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:59.440
<v Speaker 3>and especially like woody trees and later vascular plants. It

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:02.000
<v Speaker 3>seems like the those deep root systems played a big

0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 3>role in that later period. However, I think to come

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.080
<v Speaker 3>back on this, it's really worth noting that the Earth

0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:14.320
<v Speaker 3>was not without mud as a planet before the proliferation

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:17.040
<v Speaker 3>of land plants. It looks like land plants played a

0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:22.040
<v Speaker 3>huge role in forming these continental mud rocks, but there

0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 3>was mud before the plants. A sediment of clay and

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 3>silt sized particles has been produced by erosion of surface

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.720
<v Speaker 3>rocks for billions of years. So what appears to have

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 3>changed with the evolution of land plants, is that mud

0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:40.560
<v Speaker 3>started to stay on land, to stay on the continents

0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 3>as opposed to just being blown or washed out to

0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.760
<v Speaker 3>sea and settling on the seafloor. So the question is

0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:52.240
<v Speaker 3>why did the evolution of plants lead to the retention

0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:55.800
<v Speaker 3>of mud on land? And the article mentions a few ideas.

0:30:57.320 --> 0:30:59.240
<v Speaker 3>One thing, first of all, is that the authors say

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.880
<v Speaker 3>the presents of land plants may actually have helped produce

0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:07.360
<v Speaker 3>more mud particles to begin with, lead to erosion processes

0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:10.720
<v Speaker 3>that would produce more mud. Now, how would plants help

0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:14.200
<v Speaker 3>produce more mud? Well, for one thing, I was reading

0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:17.880
<v Speaker 3>this in another article that plants with strong root structures

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 3>actually break and crumble larger pieces of rock. Those roots

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:26.120
<v Speaker 3>can break up the rocks physically, crack and break them,

0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:29.400
<v Speaker 3>but can also lead to changes in the chemical composition

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:33.040
<v Speaker 3>of soil that break down rocks even further into smaller pieces.

0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:36.959
<v Speaker 3>But again, we don't need plants for mud to exist.

0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 3>There's always been these mud sized the soil particles. So

0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:44.560
<v Speaker 3>what other changes did plants introduce? Fissure rites quote. It

0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:48.000
<v Speaker 3>is therefore likely that early plants affected the mechanics of

0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:52.400
<v Speaker 3>flood plain construction. For example, the presence of plants on

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:56.200
<v Speaker 3>the landscape decreases erosion rates, and thus it was long

0:31:56.280 --> 0:32:01.040
<v Speaker 3>hypothesized that erosion, in particular by wind, remove sediment from

0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:05.360
<v Speaker 3>pre vegetated landscapes. Even if mud was deposited on pre

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:10.240
<v Speaker 3>vegetated floodplains, its removal by erosion might have been efficient.

0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 3>So before there were plants on land, it was just

0:32:14.120 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 3>too easy for small particles of soil to get washed

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 3>out to the sea. One way or another. They could

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:23.320
<v Speaker 3>get blown by wind, they could get carried along by

0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:26.040
<v Speaker 3>the flow of water after storms and rain, and they

0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:28.520
<v Speaker 3>would all just end up on the floor of the ocean.

0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:32.280
<v Speaker 3>So it seems like plants and their root structures helped

0:32:32.400 --> 0:32:37.160
<v Speaker 3>prevent small soil particles that form mud from escaping into

0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 3>the sea. But it doesn't stop there. Plants and the

0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:47.280
<v Speaker 3>mud that the plants retained changed how rivers form, Fisher

0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 3>writes quote. In addition to an inhibiting erosion, plants also

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:54.800
<v Speaker 3>interact with river flows and promote the deposition of fine

0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:58.719
<v Speaker 3>grained sediment. This can help armor river banks and slow

0:32:58.840 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 3>their lateral migration. Such process might also aid in preserving

0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:08.440
<v Speaker 3>muddy floodplain deposits, so plants might sort of help stabilize

0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.160
<v Speaker 3>the structure of rivers and keep the banks from drifting

0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:15.600
<v Speaker 3>all over the place and changing too rapidly, especially during floods,

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.840
<v Speaker 3>which helps protect the mud that gathers in floodplains and

0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 3>keeps it there.

0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Fascinating, fascinating that the plants kind of corralling the mud

0:33:25.160 --> 0:33:27.440
<v Speaker 2>in many cases. And I think if you've ever been

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.120
<v Speaker 2>in a like especially I'm thinking of like estuary type

0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 2>environments that I've visited, Like you see these elaborate root systems,

0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>you see the mud and the sediment. So that's what

0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:41.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm picturing during all of this.

0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:44.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And so actually, to help us

0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:46.680
<v Speaker 3>better picture it, I found another great article that's on

0:33:46.760 --> 0:33:49.640
<v Speaker 3>the same subject, that's on this type of research, but

0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:53.080
<v Speaker 3>it includes a lot more like context and imagery to

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 3>help us understand it. So this other article was called

0:33:56.600 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 3>the Origin of Mud from a magazine called Knowable, written

0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 3>by a writer named Laura Poppic, published in August twenty twenty,

0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 3>and I thought this was interesting. This article starts with

0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:11.239
<v Speaker 3>this anecdote about one of the two authors of that

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:15.279
<v Speaker 3>twenty eighteen study, the geologist Neil Davies. It starts with

0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:18.840
<v Speaker 3>this anecdote about him picking through a large fossil formation

0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:21.360
<v Speaker 3>from about four hundred and sixty million years ago in

0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 3>Bolivia containing just tons of smothered fish fish that all

0:34:27.840 --> 0:34:30.120
<v Speaker 3>seemed to die at the same time, and apparently this

0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:35.000
<v Speaker 3>is not uncommon for marine fossil formations from this period.

0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:39.719
<v Speaker 3>You'd have large numbers of fossil fish living near an

0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:42.600
<v Speaker 3>ancient shoreline that appear to have all died around the

0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 3>same time by being choked by mud. So the explanation

0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:50.560
<v Speaker 3>for this is probably that there's all this muddy sediment

0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:54.480
<v Speaker 3>that is suddenly washed into the water into the ocean

0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:57.520
<v Speaker 3>along the shore, possibly by a storm, and then the

0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:01.080
<v Speaker 3>fish underwent death by mud. So this was four hundred

0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:04.360
<v Speaker 3>and sixty million years ago before the proliferation of land

0:35:04.440 --> 0:35:08.520
<v Speaker 3>plants Poppic writes quote magnified this effect globally, and the

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:12.120
<v Speaker 3>impacts would have been substantial, not just on coastal life,

0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:16.000
<v Speaker 3>but on the landscape of the entire planet. Before plants,

0:35:16.400 --> 0:35:20.000
<v Speaker 3>rivers would have stripped continents of silt and clay key

0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:23.840
<v Speaker 3>constituents of mud and sent these sediments to the seafloor.

0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:27.480
<v Speaker 3>This would have left continents full of barren rock and

0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:29.680
<v Speaker 3>seas with smothered fish.

0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:32.520
<v Speaker 2>So primordial muddy oceans.

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes, especially at least around like where the rivers would

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:39.399
<v Speaker 3>drain into them, and landscapes with very little mud at all,

0:35:39.480 --> 0:35:40.839
<v Speaker 3>you know, I mean, you can just let your dog

0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:42.680
<v Speaker 3>run all over it and then come inside the house.

0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:43.520
<v Speaker 3>There's no problem.

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I keep wondering if a wellsy and time traveler

0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:51.120
<v Speaker 2>would have to bring his Victorian galoshes in visiting this

0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:51.920
<v Speaker 2>time period.

0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:55.760
<v Speaker 3>But of course, plants change all of this. Vegetation, especially

0:35:55.800 --> 0:36:01.080
<v Speaker 3>along river banks, gave mud sized particles something to cling to,

0:36:01.600 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 3>and so the mud stayed on land rather than getting

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:07.080
<v Speaker 3>washed or blown out to sea. And in the words

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 3>of Neil Davies, this retention of mud on land quote

0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:13.839
<v Speaker 3>fundamentally changed the way the world operates.

0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:27.200
<v Speaker 3>And so there are some examples of how this mud

0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:32.279
<v Speaker 3>revolution changed the continents, changed the world. Essentially. One thing

0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:35.800
<v Speaker 3>is that the geological record reveals that before the evolution

0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:39.960
<v Speaker 3>of plants, Earth's rivers probably would have looked more like

0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:43.800
<v Speaker 3>the comparison that poppyic uses is the rivers found around

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:48.319
<v Speaker 3>the Gravelly Coast of Alaska today, and she describes these

0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to think so like, imagine if you've ever

0:36:51.960 --> 0:36:55.879
<v Speaker 3>seen the kinds of branching braided channels you see as

0:36:55.920 --> 0:37:01.120
<v Speaker 3>a stream flows into the ocean across a sandy beach,

0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:03.880
<v Speaker 3>so not mud. But you've seen like a stream flowing

0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:04.920
<v Speaker 3>over a sandy beach.

0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah.

0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:10.120
<v Speaker 3>What you'll usually notice is there is not a very strong,

0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:15.279
<v Speaker 3>unified channel. Instead, there's just lots of little threads of

0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:20.080
<v Speaker 3>channels crisscrossing and always changing. This is referred to in

0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:23.200
<v Speaker 3>several sources. I looked at as a braided structure of

0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:28.560
<v Speaker 3>alluvial flow. The introduction of plants seems to have changed

0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:31.839
<v Speaker 3>this by holding mud in place, and the mud being

0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:36.680
<v Speaker 3>sticky would solidify the form of riverbanks, and this led

0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:41.400
<v Speaker 3>to stable single channel rivers with fixed banks and boundaries,

0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:45.799
<v Speaker 3>rather than these little shrubs of different rivulets changing all

0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:49.520
<v Speaker 3>the time, So you end up with the curving, defined

0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:53.920
<v Speaker 3>s shaped rivers that we see today. These rivers are

0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:56.880
<v Speaker 3>made possible by the presence of mud, which is held

0:37:56.920 --> 0:38:01.719
<v Speaker 3>on land by plants. Now, these changes in rivers had

0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:06.480
<v Speaker 3>all kinds of interesting biological consequences. For example, the bins

0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:09.799
<v Speaker 3>in a river can alter things like the temperature and

0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:13.080
<v Speaker 3>chemistry and the water compared to a straight flowing river,

0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:16.959
<v Speaker 3>which can create different micro environments along the river's length,

0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:21.200
<v Speaker 3>so that gives all kinds of different little tiny ecosystems

0:38:21.200 --> 0:38:24.640
<v Speaker 3>and habitats that organisms would have to adapt to. But

0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:29.720
<v Speaker 3>the presence of mud itself is also biologically relevant because

0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:33.480
<v Speaker 3>mud is a habitat, so it takes special skills and

0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:37.880
<v Speaker 3>evolutionary adaptations to live in mud and move around and

0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:41.040
<v Speaker 3>navigate your way through it. For example, it takes different

0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:44.960
<v Speaker 3>types of adaptations for movement for a small animal to

0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:47.680
<v Speaker 3>get through mud than it does to get through sand

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:52.160
<v Speaker 3>or some other type of surface. And Poppix article consults

0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:56.799
<v Speaker 3>a geologist at the University of Oxford named Anthony Shalito

0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:59.160
<v Speaker 3>on this subject. I thought this was so interesting, so

0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.759
<v Speaker 3>Shlido says, here, I'm quoting from popic quote. To get

0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:06.120
<v Speaker 3>through mud, and animals such as a worm, creates cracks

0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:11.319
<v Speaker 3>to shuffle through by contracting its body, extending it, squeezing

0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:14.520
<v Speaker 3>water out of the way, and moving forward. This is

0:39:14.600 --> 0:39:18.320
<v Speaker 3>mechanically different from traveling through sand, which requires an animal

0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:22.960
<v Speaker 3>to excavate material out of the way. Chiliedo says, so

0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:25.880
<v Speaker 3>early land worms and insects would have had to evolve

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:29.839
<v Speaker 3>body parts equipped to deal with muckier movements, but then

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:33.719
<v Speaker 3>in turn the animals that adapt to those muddy environments

0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:38.440
<v Speaker 3>change them because Poppic then cites a palaeobiologist from Yale

0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:41.799
<v Speaker 3>named Lydia Taran who says that you know, like these

0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:45.880
<v Speaker 3>animals living in the in the muddy soil around riverbanks,

0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:49.040
<v Speaker 3>they dig in the mud, they excavate the mud, and

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:53.120
<v Speaker 3>this for one thing, it affects the chemistry of the mud,

0:39:53.400 --> 0:39:56.359
<v Speaker 3>but it also sort of like breaks and loosens it up,

0:39:56.440 --> 0:39:59.760
<v Speaker 3>which allows the mud to further disperse throughout the rivers

0:39:59.760 --> 0:40:04.000
<v Speaker 3>and also across floodplains. So you know the valleys where

0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:07.160
<v Speaker 3>rivers form between the higher areas of the land. So

0:40:07.280 --> 0:40:10.719
<v Speaker 3>because you get these single channel s shaped rivers with

0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:15.520
<v Speaker 3>more defined banks, you get these downstream processes that lead

0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:18.759
<v Speaker 3>to the build up of muddy flood plains around them,

0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:22.680
<v Speaker 3>which don't form as easily along the kind of rivers

0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:24.640
<v Speaker 3>you see forming in sand or gravel.

0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:29.120
<v Speaker 2>This is fascinating. I'm looking forward to getting back to

0:40:29.160 --> 0:40:31.560
<v Speaker 2>some of this in our episode that's going to deal

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:35.600
<v Speaker 2>more with the specifics of some of the animals in

0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the world today that make their home on the mud.

0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:41.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, absolutely. But I love this story because it's

0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:44.799
<v Speaker 3>just one of these amazing examples of how much, you know,

0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:51.160
<v Speaker 3>sometimes we don't stop to appreciate the inner play between

0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:54.239
<v Speaker 3>like earth and water and life, and the way that

0:40:54.280 --> 0:40:58.279
<v Speaker 3>they all are constantly changing each other. That there's this

0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:01.480
<v Speaker 3>like massive you know process us like the mud revolution

0:41:01.760 --> 0:41:05.719
<v Speaker 3>caused by the evolution of plants on land further gives

0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:10.240
<v Speaker 3>rise to all of these these changes in land based life,

0:41:10.719 --> 0:41:13.960
<v Speaker 3>which helps give give rise to more changes in like

0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 3>how mud accumulates and how sediment is distributed in floodplains

0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:20.000
<v Speaker 3>and so forth. So I guess by way of research,

0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:23.480
<v Speaker 3>we have once again arrived at cliche. But sometimes that's

0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:25.960
<v Speaker 3>how it is. I mean, it's the life and the

0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:28.839
<v Speaker 3>inorganic systems that support life, the surface of the earth.

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:30.880
<v Speaker 3>It's a it's a web of interactions.

0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think it is easy to sort of

0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:36.680
<v Speaker 2>fall back on just sort of the school textbook mental

0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:41.520
<v Speaker 2>image of fish flops onto a beach, fish flops onto

0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:44.880
<v Speaker 2>onto some rocks, and now life on earth has begun,

0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:48.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, like sort of not not considering mud. Is

0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:52.680
<v Speaker 2>this vital realm of evolution and transference.

0:41:52.360 --> 0:41:56.000
<v Speaker 3>And human culture and technology, because this is another thing

0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:59.719
<v Speaker 3>that Poppic gets into in her article, like she quotes

0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:03.399
<v Speaker 3>would Fisher talking about how there are still things that

0:42:03.760 --> 0:42:06.319
<v Speaker 3>we don't fully understand about mud and the way that

0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:10.080
<v Speaker 3>riverbanks work and stuff, and this research could help contribute

0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:13.200
<v Speaker 3>to that, for example, by giving us better ideas of

0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:17.200
<v Speaker 3>how to do river engineering projects like dam construction. You know,

0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:19.480
<v Speaker 3>if you have a better idea of the way that

0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:25.000
<v Speaker 3>vegetation controls the flow of rivers and how the banks

0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:28.160
<v Speaker 3>of the rivers change and respond to flood conditions, you

0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:33.239
<v Speaker 3>could better anticipate and prevent, for example, river engineering failures.

0:42:33.600 --> 0:42:35.680
<v Speaker 3>The example given in the article here is like flooding

0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:39.560
<v Speaker 3>along the Mississippi River. But you know this is of

0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:41.680
<v Speaker 3>concern to societies all around the world.

0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:45.040
<v Speaker 2>All of this reminds me of that great quote from T. S.

0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:48.719
<v Speaker 2>Eliot from four Quartets quote. I do not know much

0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:51.400
<v Speaker 2>about gods, but I think that the river is a strong,

0:42:51.520 --> 0:42:55.560
<v Speaker 2>brown god, sullen, untamed and intractable.

0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's beautiful. And to know that that god may

0:42:59.000 --> 0:43:02.120
<v Speaker 3>have been formed of many other lesser gods over time

0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:06.239
<v Speaker 3>by the accumulation of mud by plants. Oh, this is

0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:08.239
<v Speaker 3>just a random thing I remembered, but I wanted to

0:43:08.239 --> 0:43:10.640
<v Speaker 3>throw it in quickly. Another interesting thing mentioned in that

0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:15.000
<v Speaker 3>popic article is the idea that once forests are formed

0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 3>on land, they can also help contribute to the accumulation

0:43:20.120 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 3>of mud on the continents because they act as a

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:26.240
<v Speaker 3>sort of filter for dust and sediment that is blown

0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:28.759
<v Speaker 3>by the wind. So the wind, you know, you can

0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:32.160
<v Speaker 3>imagine it picking up fine grain particles of soil, clay,

0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:35.840
<v Speaker 3>and salt, blowing them around when they're dry, and normally

0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:37.680
<v Speaker 3>they just get blown out to sea. But if there

0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:40.680
<v Speaker 3>are forests, they get stopped by the forests, They get

0:43:40.680 --> 0:43:43.240
<v Speaker 3>stuck in the sort of the sieve of the trees.

0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:45.759
<v Speaker 3>They fall to the earth, and then they can accumulate

0:43:45.800 --> 0:43:49.480
<v Speaker 3>and become mud on the forest floor, flow down into

0:43:49.560 --> 0:43:52.440
<v Speaker 3>a river over time with the wash of the rains

0:43:52.480 --> 0:43:54.680
<v Speaker 3>and so forth, and then become new muddy banks.

0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:59.680
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing. Yeah, it's so easy to take mud for granted, because,

0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:01.239
<v Speaker 2>like as if you're just coming at it from the

0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:03.399
<v Speaker 2>perspective of someone who wants to go on a walk

0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:05.759
<v Speaker 2>in the woods, and then mud is what happens when

0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:09.760
<v Speaker 2>when something has failed or our conditions are not optimal.

0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:14.560
<v Speaker 2>But but this this this look at the MUD's role

0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:16.960
<v Speaker 2>in the emergence of life and sort of the construction

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:19.239
<v Speaker 2>of the world as we know it. Yeah, it really

0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:20.920
<v Speaker 2>really casts it in a different light.

0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:23.800
<v Speaker 3>But we are by no means done with this topic.

0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 3>I think we should wrap it up for today, but

0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:28.960
<v Speaker 3>when we come back, we will be talking about mud

0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:32.719
<v Speaker 3>and warfare, Mud and human civilization, Mud on Mars, Mud

0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:36.479
<v Speaker 3>and animal behavior and more mud, monsters. There's all kinds

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:37.600
<v Speaker 3>of stuff. Yeah.

0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So this is one of those where we definitely

0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:42.839
<v Speaker 2>don't know how many episodes it'll be, so we can't

0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:44.279
<v Speaker 2>give you a heads up that this is going to

0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:47.200
<v Speaker 2>be two episodes, three episodes. We're just going to have

0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.880
<v Speaker 2>to listen to the mud and follow the Mud and

0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:52.600
<v Speaker 2>let it take us like someone stepping in it on

0:44:52.600 --> 0:44:54.520
<v Speaker 2>a on a on a muddy path. We's got to

0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:57.799
<v Speaker 2>let it see where we go, how far we're going

0:44:57.840 --> 0:45:00.239
<v Speaker 2>to slide in the mud. All right, Well, on that note,

0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:01.640
<v Speaker 2>we're going to go ahead and close it out, but

0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:04.680
<v Speaker 2>we'll be back next time with more mud. So just

0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:06.799
<v Speaker 2>remember that our core episodes of Stuff to Blow Your

0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Mind publishing the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed

0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:12.960
<v Speaker 2>on Tuesdays and Thursdays Mondays. We do listener mail. Wednesdays

0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:14.840
<v Speaker 2>we do a short form artifact or Monster Effect, and

0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:17.279
<v Speaker 2>on Fridays we do Weird House Cinema. That's our time

0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.919
<v Speaker 2>to set aside most serious concerns and just talk about

0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:20.840
<v Speaker 2>a weird film.

0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:24.960
<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If

0:45:25.000 --> 0:45:26.520
<v Speaker 3>you would like to get in touch with us with

0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:29.080
<v Speaker 3>feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a

0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:31.160
<v Speaker 3>topic for the future, or just to say hello, you

0:45:31.200 --> 0:45:34.280
<v Speaker 3>can email us at contact Stuff to Blow Your Mind

0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:42.480
<v Speaker 3>dot com.

0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:48.400
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:45:48.560 --> 0:46:00.520
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0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:03.839
<v Speaker 2>Fred is Fras with Ratatatata