1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 2: is Robert. 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 3: Lamb and I am Joe McCormack. And today we are 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 3: going to be starting a series of episodes on mud, 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 3: a topic that I promise is more interesting than you 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 3: might think. And to get us started today, I wanted 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 3: to talk about a section from an English epic poem 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 3: that endorses the belief that mud just happens to give 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 3: rise to monsters or monstrous creatures of various shapes. So 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 3: the poem in question is a late sixteenth century epic 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 3: poem by the English poet Edmund Spencer called The Fairy Queen. 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 3: I took a class in college where we read this, 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 3: or we read part of it. To be honest, there's 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 3: a lot that I forget about it, but it's very 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 3: much your classic poem with you know, heroic knights, the 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 3: Red Cross Knight, and damsels in distress and witches and 18 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 3: ogres and all that. And there's an interesting passage toward 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 3: the beginning of The Fairy Queen. I think it's in 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 3: book one, canto one, where Spencer implies a belief about 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 3: the way nature works a belief that the mud, specifically 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 3: the mud of the Nile River, spawns monsters, and Spencer 23 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: writes quote as when old Father Nihilis gins to swell 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 3: with timely pride above the Egyptian veil, his fatty waves 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 3: do fertile slime out well and overflow each plane and 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 3: lowly dale. But when his later spring gins to a 27 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 3: veil huge heaps of mud, he leaves wherein their breed 28 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 3: ten thousand kinds of creatures, partly male and partly female, 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 3: of his fruitful seed, such ugly monstrous shapes elsewhere may 30 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: no man read. And then Spencer later cites the same 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 3: belief again as a kind of illustration of a general principle. 32 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: He writes, but reason teacheth that the fruitful seeds of 33 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 3: all things living through impression of the sunbeams in moist complexion, 34 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: do life conceive and quickened are by kind. So after 35 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 3: Nihilus inundation, infinite shapes of creatures men do find informed 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: in the mud on which the sun hath shined. So 37 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 3: I think he seems to be saying, like mud plus 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 3: sunshine equals monsters, or at least creatures of infinite shapes, 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 3: which in some passages he seems to think might be monsters. 40 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: Maybe among infinite variation, there will necessarily be some monsters. 41 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: And I'm interested in this belief because, on one hand, 42 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 3: it just sort of reflects some ancient beliefs that are 43 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: carried over into the medieval and Renaissance period about where 44 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 3: life comes from, ideas now obsolete theories like spontaneous generation 45 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: that you know that life forms, which is sort of 46 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 3: like arise in the mud or in like a wet 47 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 3: bag of flour or something. But I also like it 48 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 3: because it imagines the mud in the floodplain of a 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 3: great river like the Nile as a as a source 50 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: of both like sort of mystery and danger, but also 51 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: great possibility. And this does correspond to the kind of 52 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 3: the double nature of mud and of a river like 53 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 3: the Nile. So you think of the Nile River delta, 54 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: it is a place of incredibly fertile soil that you 55 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: know that supplies food and crops for all of the 56 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 3: areas around. But also if you know you get stuck 57 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 3: in the mud, that's a place you don't want to be, 58 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 3: and it is a place where you will find lots 59 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 3: of life that is maybe life that's kind of strange 60 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: to you. You don't usually go wading into the mud, 61 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: and if you do, I don't know all kinds of 62 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: weird little mollusks and creepy crawleys and critters are in there, 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: and you don't know what you might find. 64 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is really interesting. We should also note, 65 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: you know, it does accurately, though monstrously, refer to the 66 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: the the inundation of the Nile, which is a topic 67 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: we did an entire episode at least one episode on 68 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: in the past. I mean, the Nile overflows its banks 69 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: and it brings life and has this this very prominent 70 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: role in especially an ancient Egyptian belief and mythology. But yeah, this, 71 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: this dual nature of mud is quite interesting and something 72 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 2: that that we're going to be talking about quite a 73 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: bit in these episodes, because it at once it is 74 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: like you want to build something, well, you're gonna need 75 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 2: something like mud or mud itself. But of course it's 76 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 2: also the place where you know, many a famous military 77 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: campaign has perished in the mud, So you know, it's 78 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: the thing from which monsters emerge, but it's all you know, 79 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: it's the thing where you might find a pig, but 80 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: you also will find gleaming butterflies, you know, cascading and 81 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: swirling around something, some stinking pile of mud. Yeah, it 82 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: does seem to have this dual nature, at least from 83 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: the human vantage point. 84 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 3: So our goal is after we're done with this series, 85 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 3: you will never think about mud the same way. And 86 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 3: when it gets stuck to your shoes, you might still 87 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 3: be mad, but there will also be a part of 88 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: you that that's kind of reflective and stops to be 89 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: amazed at what it is. Your dog has just gotten 90 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 3: all over your couch. 91 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're like me too, just even thinking 92 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: about this topic, it means that you've had the Primus 93 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: song my Name is Mud just flipped on in your brain. 94 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 2: I haven't even listened to it to encourage or extinguish it, 95 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 2: but it's just there as I read these various papers 96 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: about mud or mmama mud, Right, I guess that's the 97 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: way it's said, and so I'll take your word for it. 98 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: It's a solid jam. It's got some colossal bass and 99 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: drums on there. 100 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's Primus. They rattle the furniture. But anyway, 101 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: we should go straight to the question what is mud? 102 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 3: What is it made? Of In general, mud seems to 103 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: have a kind of loose definition. We all know it 104 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 3: when we see it, but there may not be strict 105 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: scientific criteria about what counts, except maybe in certain contexts, 106 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: like when you're talking when you get to some things 107 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: we'll get to in a minute about like particle size 108 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 3: and what solidifies into certain kinds of rock. But just generally, 109 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: I mean, mud is some sort of wet soil, but 110 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: exactly how wet, Exactly what are the properties of the 111 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 3: soil for it to count as mud versus just being 112 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 3: kind of like, I don't know, damp, gross stuff that 113 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 3: might be in the eye of the beholder of the 114 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 3: beat or of the bee treader. 115 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would, I would. I think that sometimes we 116 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: know it when we see it, but we definitely know 117 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: it when we step on it or step in it. 118 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: I guess that's the thing, right, If I'm able to 119 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: step on it, well maybe it's not fully mud. But 120 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: if I'm in it, well I am in mud now. 121 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: But I think the other Yeah. The other interesting thing 122 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: about mud is a lot of it does depend on 123 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: where you're coming from, you know, like if you were 124 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,119 Speaker 2: a domestic hog, well, mud is just simply good there's 125 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: not much else to say about that, though we will 126 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: get into how various animals use mud later on in 127 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: a subsequent episode, but just from the human perspective, it's 128 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: kind of interesting. One of the books I was looking at, 129 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: and we'll come back to later when we get more 130 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: in depth on this is a book titled Mud, a 131 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: Military History by ce Wood, which, if you haven't thought 132 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: about it much before, or you haven't you're not like 133 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: a military history enthusiast, you might not realize that, Oh yeah, mud. 134 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: Mud is the sort of thing that you could write 135 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: an entire book about just from the perspective of war 136 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: and military operations. But that's what this book is. 137 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 3: When I think of mud and armed conflict. Obviously, you know, 138 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: terrain and especially mud have played a big role in 139 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: worse throughout history, but I think especially of Eastern Europe 140 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: for some reason. 141 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, big big war machines, big tanks stuck in the mud, 142 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: or has a Wood mentions a time or two the 143 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: idea of one of these colossal tanks just going down 144 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: a muddy hill as if it were like a sled 145 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: on a snowfield or something, you know, just out of control. 146 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 2: Things like that occurring mud changes what you can and 147 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: can't do in many instances any with things ranging from 148 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: infantry to horses to modern industrial war machines. But like 149 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: I said, we'll get back to that more in the future. 150 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: But I thought it was interesting that Wood opens just 151 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: dealing with this basic ambiguity concerning mud and writes that, Okay, 152 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: if we're going to be just very broad about it, 153 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 2: it comes down to soil consisting of mineral and organic 154 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: matter combined with moisture at such a level relative to 155 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 2: the exact compositions of the soil to make it unstable 156 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 2: and likely to move and flow underfoot or underhoof or 157 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: under wheeler track, etc. Wood points out that while many 158 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: military minds have considered mud and other soil issues beneath 159 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: their strategic consideration, but they have always done so at 160 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: their peril, because mud, as we'll get into later, does 161 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: make a difference in war has come to very famously 162 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: define certain war zones. He points out that not everyone 163 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: has certainly ignored this fact, and in nineteen forty four, 164 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: the US Army conducted a series of tests regarding mud. 165 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: They're like, all right, let's get down to it. Let's 166 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: classify some mud because we have only so many resources 167 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: for our rubber tires, so we needed to decide where 168 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,479 Speaker 2: we need to send them, where we need to prioritize 169 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: our best tires. And so this is a situation where 170 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 2: we're dealing with sort of a narrowed perspective concerning mud. 171 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: This is just mud concerning like, let me roll some 172 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: vehicles across it. But they classified mud into two types 173 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 2: and two subtypes. Okay, Type one bottomless mud. Now, this 174 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: just means that the MUD's consistency cannot support a vehicle 175 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: with tires that have twenty pounds of pressure, or that 176 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: the underlying hard layer of earth beneath the mud beneath 177 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: the layer of mud is too far beneath the vehicle's 178 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: ground clearance. 179 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: Okay, so this sounds like dangerous mud. 180 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the mud that your vehicle is going 181 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: to get stuck in and or sink into. And then 182 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 2: Type two is just all other types of mud. But 183 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 2: this does feature two subtypes, Type A and type B. 184 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 2: Type A has a quote unquote cleaning quality, meaning that 185 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: it contains enough moisture to work as a liquid. So 186 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 2: like this, like type A mud gets on your vehicle 187 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 2: and you know it kind of flows off. I mean 188 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 2: it's I don't think cleaning quality means that your tank 189 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: or your truck is going to be clean after the 190 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: mud has a rent sofa a little bit. Yeah, it 191 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: flows away, but it's it's this a cleaning quality Type 192 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: B is adhesive or sticky. So this is the mud 193 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: in type of mud. This is the type of mud 194 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: that the big pickup pickup truck driver seeks out when 195 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 2: they go out into the wilderness to make sure that 196 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 2: they return to city life with a vehicle completely encased 197 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: in mud. Okay, So more on the military angle later on. 198 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: So this is not necessarily a helpful way to understand 199 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: mud as a whole, but rather to a way to 200 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 2: underline that the meaning of mud kind of depends on 201 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: what you're trying to do in it or through it, 202 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 2: and mud therefore could be your threat or your treasure, 203 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: depending on what you're looking to get out of the situation. 204 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 3: Very true. Now, I found an article that I thought 205 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 3: was helpful. It was from two thousand and three in 206 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,599 Speaker 3: the Washington Post, and being in the Washington Post, I 207 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 3: would say a little overly concerned with these specific types 208 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 3: of mud found around the Washington d C. Metro area, 209 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 3: but I'm mostly ignoring those parts because it does helpfully 210 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 3: consult a bunch of soil scientists on the definitions and 211 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 3: categories of mud. So it was called a World Gone 212 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 3: Mud by Joel Aikenbach from June fifteenth, two thousand and three. 213 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 3: First of all, it consults a researcher named Trish Steinhilber 214 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 3: from the University of Maryland Agricultural Nutrient Management Program, who says, 215 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 3: you know, we would just call it wet soil, So 216 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 3: that's one perspective, it's just wet soil. But then the 217 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 3: article cites another soil physicist, or sorry, another soil researcher, 218 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 3: this time a soil physicist also from the University of 219 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 3: Maryland named Robert Hill, who says mud should be differentiated 220 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 3: from merely wet soil because it has different physical properties 221 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: as commonly understood, Like we've been saying, mud is sticky 222 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 3: in a way that not all wet soils are, and 223 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 3: this stickiness is due to the presence of a higher 224 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 3: proportion of smaller particles, especially clay particles. So, as you 225 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: probably know, soil is made from a mixture of different materials. 226 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 3: Some of those materials are organic, so they can be 227 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: decaying organic matter or decaying bits of plants and animals 228 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 3: and all that, but also inorganic matter, and we're going 229 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 3: to focus on the inorganic matter for the moment. The 230 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 3: inorganic solid particles that make up soil are generally produced 231 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 3: by the erosion and breakdown of larger rocks over time, 232 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: which can happen due to physical forces like wind, rain, 233 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 3: and ice, or it can be due to break down 234 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 3: by organisms like fungi and bacteria. And we all know 235 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 3: soil can have different consistencies. You stick your hands into 236 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 3: the soil in one place, it just feels different than 237 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 3: the soil in another place. One of the major factors 238 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 3: that you can use to sort soil into different categories 239 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 3: is the average particle size in the soil. So if 240 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 3: particles are bigger than two millimeters, that's gravel. You know 241 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: that's going to pop under your car tire. Particles of 242 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 3: less than two millimeters in diameter but more than zero 243 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: point zero five millimeters are sand. Then smaller than sand, 244 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 3: you've got silt, which is made of particles less than 245 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 3: zero point zero five millimeters in diameter. And then at 246 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 3: the very bottom, the finest grain soil is clay, which 247 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: means particles smaller than zero point zero zero two millimeters 248 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 3: in diameter. Now, apart from particle size, there are also 249 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 3: some at least common chemical properties you'll find at these 250 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: different areas, like they tend to derive from different types 251 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 3: of minerals, like clay typically features a standard mineral constituent, 252 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: which is hydrous aluminum philosilicates. But for the moment, we 253 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: can just think about these as particles of different sizes. 254 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: So by one definition, any sufficiently wet soil made of 255 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: any mixture of these particles could be mud. But if 256 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 3: you're going with the definition of mud as sticky slop 257 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 3: that kind of sucks to the bottom of your shoes 258 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 3: and you might get stuck in it usually means it's 259 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: made up of mostly silt and clay sized particles, silt 260 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 3: sized and clay sized particles, and things get especially sticky 261 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 3: if it has a lot of clay. 262 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: And again there's this fine line, like I know, I 263 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: instantly think back to some cave environments that I've been in, 264 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: and mud at just the right consistency, it's like it's sticky, 265 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: but you're not slipping in it. It's almost something you 266 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: want to walk on, but that line is very thin 267 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: between between that and like the treacherous mud that you 268 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: will slip in. So it's fascinating when you start getting 269 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: into the way this breaks down. 270 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, is the mud grippy like maybe rubber? Or will 271 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: it fly out from under you like a banana peel? 272 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 3: And that does I think come down to something having 273 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 3: to do with the water content as well as the 274 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 3: particle size. So if mud is wet soil or sticky 275 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: wet soil, we've explained the soil part it tends to 276 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 3: be the smaller particle sizes clay sized and silt sized 277 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: particles that make mud, But there's also the wetness angle. 278 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 3: How wet does soil have to be for it to 279 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 3: be mud. Here we get to the concept of cohesive 280 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 3: soil and what are called adderberg limits. So Cohesive soils 281 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: are soils that tend to stick or clump together as 282 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 3: opposed to crumbling. Cohesive soils tend to have again, more 283 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:44,119 Speaker 3: clay sized particles. Smaller particles stick together better, and cohesive 284 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: soils can be in three states, depending on how wet 285 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: they are. These states are non plastic, plastic, and viscous. 286 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: Non Plastic means hard difficult to mold or deform. This 287 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 3: is usually when they're dry. Cohesive soils dry up kind 288 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 3: of hard like bricks, and they form tough earth, so 289 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 3: you can think about like hard clay ground, you know 290 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 3: what that's like. When cohesive soils get wet, though, they 291 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 3: can cross one of these Adderberg limits, that the plastic limit, 292 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 3: and become plastic. So this means they become soft or moldable, 293 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 3: So think about wet clay and then beyond that limit, 294 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: there's another limit, another limit, which is the liquid limit, 295 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 3: and this is the viscous stage where there's sort of 296 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 3: like a liquid goop. So you can add water to 297 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 3: non plastic soil until it crosses the plastic limit, becomes 298 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 3: soft and mouldable. You can add more water until it 299 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 3: crosses the liquid limit. Where the liquid limit is explained 300 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: in this Washington Post article as if you cut a 301 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 3: groove in the mud, the mud will flow back in 302 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 3: to fill it. That's the liquid limit, which actually has 303 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 3: some analogies in the culinary world, like if you ever 304 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 3: did back of the spoon test for the thickness of 305 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 3: a sauce in the kitchen. The French term for that 306 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: is nape, where if you like wipe your the tip 307 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 3: of your finger along the back of a spoon coated 308 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: in the sauce. It should leave a trail rather than 309 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: having the sauce flow back in to fill the gap. 310 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 3: That that's nape. 311 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 2: One of the many culinary techniques in Abo. You just 312 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: like jab your fingers into things like. 313 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, stick, yeah, stick your finger in the food. 314 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, let the meat touch your face, and that will 315 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 2: determine if it is the right temperature. 316 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 3: But so, the definition of the liquid limit is that 317 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 3: it does not pass the back of the spoon. Test 318 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 3: if you cut a groove in it, it will flow 319 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 3: back in to fill the gap. So it sounds to 320 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 3: me like the definitional sweet spot for mud is a 321 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 3: wet cohesive soil. It's made primarily of silt or clay 322 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 3: sized particles, especially if there's a lot of clay sized 323 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 3: particles that is above the plastic limit and below the 324 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: liquid limit. Somewhere in there, though, I was thinking that 325 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: even sort of fully liquid glop we do sometimes call mud, 326 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: don't we, But that's not usually the first kind of 327 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 3: substance I think. 328 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: Of, right, right, Like I come back to the example 329 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 2: of mud pies, you know, I think a lot of 330 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 2: us did this as a kid. If you're allowed to 331 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: play in the mud, you get some little like pie 332 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: crusts or just little whatever, you know, cups and pans, 333 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 2: pour the mud up, slap the mud together, and then 334 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 2: you set it in the sun too dry, into mud cakes. 335 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's like if you're pouring it, if you're 336 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 2: just complete all you know it is completely pouring it 337 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 2: into the pan that doesn't really feel like mud. That's 338 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: just like mud water or something that's like on the 339 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 2: way to mud, but not mud quite yet. The moisture 340 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 2: still levels too high. And I guess in baking you 341 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 2: have variations of that as well. Right like you said 342 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: the sauce is too runny, the batter is too runny, 343 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: et cetera. 344 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 3: I think the mudpie test is a good one. And 345 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 3: you know what, that actually brings me to the next 346 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 3: thing I want to talk about, which is this might 347 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 3: be something you'd never considered before. Was there a time 348 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 3: on Earth when it would have been really difficult to 349 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 3: make a mudpie? I would argue, based on some research 350 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 3: I've been reading about that, Yes, if you go back 351 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 3: before or five hundred million years ago, go to the 352 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 3: pre Cambrian period, and you walk around on Earth's continents 353 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 3: trying to find a place to make a mudpie, You're 354 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 3: gonna probably strike out. You're going to be out of luck, 355 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 3: because there was a time basically before there was mud 356 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 3: on land on Earth, or before there was very much 357 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 3: mud to be found on land. So here I want 358 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: to go to an article I was reading in the 359 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: journal Science in the year twenty eighteen by Woodward Fisher, 360 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: who is a Caltech geobiologist. The article is called Early 361 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 3: Plants and the Rise of Mud, and this article is 362 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: primarily summarizing and contextualizing a study that was published by 363 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 3: a couple of different authors in the same issue of 364 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 3: the journal Science in twenty eighteen. This article is very 365 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 3: good in putting these findings in context. So Fisher mentions 366 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 3: that you know, life on Earth has several times that 367 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 3: we know about reshaped fundamental geophysical features and processes at 368 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: the Earth's surface. There are ways in which you could 369 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 3: say that life has fundamentally changed the planet itself, at 370 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 3: least what's happening on the surface and in the atmosphere. 371 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 3: So perhaps the first example that will likely come to 372 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 3: your mind is the oxygenation of the oceans in the atmosphere. 373 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 3: It was the evolution of photosynthesis in cyanobacteria and other 374 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 3: life forms that triggered this shift. You know, we didn't 375 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 3: always have an oxygen atmosphere. Another major geophysical change triggered 376 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 3: by life that Fisher mentions is the evolution of mineral 377 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 3: skeletons by life forms, again particularly algae, and the presence 378 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 3: of those skeletons change the way that ocean floors are 379 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 3: formed and then subsequently the kinds of rock layers that 380 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 3: would form when they solidified over the eons. But this 381 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 3: article is focused on another discovery of this sort, how 382 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 3: the evolution of land based plants changed the Earth by 383 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 3: affecting mud. So the citation for the study here is 384 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 3: William J. McMahon and Neil S. Davies. The article is 385 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 3: called evolution of alluvial mud rock forced by early land 386 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 3: plants again Journal Science, twenty eighteen. So when soil made 387 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 3: mostly out of clay or silt sized particles gets compacted 388 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: in the ground and lithifies into the resulting rock layer 389 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 3: is called mud rock, and there are many kinds of 390 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 3: mud rock. When geologists look for layers of mud rock 391 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 3: from the past, they notice something interesting. There is extremely 392 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 3: little mud rock from river bottoms and floodplains before a 393 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 3: certain geologic period in the history of the Earth. So 394 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 3: if you look in the pre Cambrian era or the 395 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 3: early Paleozoic era, there's very little mud rock on the continents. 396 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 3: And I'll do a little refresher on the basic geologic 397 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 3: timeline of the early to mid Palaeozoic. So you've got 398 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 3: the Cambrian period, this is roughly five hundred million years ago. 399 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 3: Before the Cambrian period, most life on Earth is small, soft, 400 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 3: and unicellular. And then the Cambrian period represents a sort 401 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 3: of explosion of life, a massive proliferation in the diversity 402 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 3: of life forms. Life Forms get bigger, more complex, with 403 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 3: hard body parts that get fossilized. So think of the 404 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 3: age of trilobites and anomalo icaris. That's a period of 405 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 3: like forty or fifty million years, roughly five hundred million 406 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 3: years ago. And then you've got after that the Ortavician period, 407 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: which is about four hundred and eighty five to four 408 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 3: hundred and forty four million years ago. More diversification of 409 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: life forms, primarily in the ocean, arthropods, molluscs, so forth, 410 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 3: and the appearance of the very first primitive land plants. 411 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 3: Then you've got the Silurian period, which is like four 412 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 3: forty four to four nineteen million years ago. Note that 413 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 3: this is separated from the previous era by the Ordovician 414 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 3: Silurian extinction event. There's often an extinction event separating these periods. 415 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 3: This period shows diversification in fish and other marine fauna. 416 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 3: But it's also important because of sort of a terrestrial revolution, 417 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: the terrestrialization of many branches of life. Suddenly a lot 418 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 3: more is happening on land instead of just in the ocean. 419 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 3: So you have the evolution of vascular plants and terrestrial fungi, 420 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 3: and these lead to changes in land ecosystems, including the 421 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 3: ones we're talking about now. Also, land based arthropods diversify, 422 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 3: so you get the ancestors of animals like spiders and 423 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 3: insects and so forth. And then after that, from like 424 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 3: four nineteen to three hundred and fifty nine million years ago, 425 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 3: you've got the Devonian period, sometimes called the Age of Fishes. 426 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 3: Obviously there's a lot of fish diversification here, the terrestrial 427 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 3: revolution continues, and then later in the Devonian period, this 428 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 3: is the first time that you have the continents covered 429 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 3: in forests of plants of the kind of things we 430 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 3: would recognize as trees. But coming back to how this 431 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: geologic timeline relates to mud, So in the Precambrian, in 432 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 3: continuing into the early Palaeozoic, there is very little river 433 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 3: mud rock showing up in the geologic strata. Instead, lithified 434 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 3: riverbeds see to contain sand and gravel, And as the 435 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: Paleozoic era progresses, there is a rise in the formation 436 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 3: of mud rocks in river deposits, which seems to indicate 437 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: a global change in how sediment gets pushed and pulled 438 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 3: around by rivers, and this change is associated with the 439 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 3: colonization of the continents by plant life. There's an interesting 440 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 3: analogy which is Mars. Mars we believe once had flowing rivers, 441 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 3: but presumably did not have plants. And it also appears 442 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 3: that Mars has very little mud rock in its river deposits. 443 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 2: Though we will come back to the topic of mud 444 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: on Mars. Is there mud on Mars? You might ask, 445 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: how we'll tune in to a future episode. 446 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 3: Mars needs goloshes. Yeah, So, the authors of this twenty 447 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 3: eighteen paper McMahon and Davies. They wanted to zero in 448 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 3: on this change in mud rock deposition in Earth's history 449 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 3: and understand it better. So they were looking at samples 450 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 3: of rock strata from ancient river beds before and after 451 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 3: the land plant revolution all throughout this time period to 452 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 3: measure the relative amount of mud rock corresponding to the 453 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 3: different eras, and after crunching the numbers, they concluded that 454 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 3: the fractional portion of mud rock in the geologic strata 455 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 3: rose by more than an order of magnitude. An order 456 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 3: of magnitude is ten times, so more than ten times 457 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 3: increase in the proportion of mud rock, I think in 458 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 3: their abstract they actually say it was one point four 459 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 3: orders of magnitude. This is after land plants evolved, so 460 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 3: when plants colonized land, it made a huge profound change 461 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 3: in what was happening with sediment, meaning mud, primarily in 462 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 3: river bottoms and floodplains. The increase in these rocks made 463 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 3: out of mud began in the late Ordovician and continuing 464 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 3: to the beginning of the Silurian, and this does implicate 465 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 3: early land plants, but it's also interestingly it's earlier than 466 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 3: the researchers expected to find it, perhaps in part because 467 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 3: or perhaps their expectations for finding increases in mud rock 468 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 3: in this period were low because the earliest land plants 469 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 3: here they're really puny, I think, mostly like bryophytes. They're 470 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 3: these kind of little patchy green things that would resemble 471 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 3: mosses or liver warts, so you know, we're not talking 472 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: about jungles yet. Vascular plants meaning plants that have tissues 473 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 3: that allow them to grow tall because they can conduct 474 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: water and mineral nutrients up their stems. They start to 475 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 3: appear in the late Silurian and early Devonian, but the 476 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 3: earliest of these plants would only be a few centimeters 477 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 3: off the ground and could only survive in wet environments. 478 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 3: It isn't until again the late Devonian, maybe like three 479 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 3: hundred and seventy million years ago or so, that you 480 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 3: first get what we would think of as forests landscapes 481 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 3: thick with relatively tall vascular plants. But according to this research, 482 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 3: even these earlier phases of puny, little baby plants, little mossy, 483 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 3: liver wardy type things, made a pretty big difference in 484 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: how mud was distributed on the earth. But when you 485 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 3: get to the later Devonian, and then into the Carboniferous 486 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 3: period there is an even bigger shift. This is the 487 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 3: phase where there would again be forests of like impressive 488 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 3: woody trees with deep root structures, like the things we 489 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 3: think of as forests today. Rob I'm including an illustrated 490 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 3: graph with a timeline from this article for you to 491 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 3: look at. You can see that the amount of mud 492 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 3: rock starts to go up during the period of like 493 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 3: the bryophytes, these little primitive land plants, and then it 494 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 3: really reaches its peak in the era of vascular plants, 495 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 3: and especially like woody trees and later vascular plants. It 496 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 3: seems like the those deep root systems played a big 497 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 3: role in that later period. However, I think to come 498 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 3: back on this, it's really worth noting that the Earth 499 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 3: was not without mud as a planet before the proliferation 500 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 3: of land plants. It looks like land plants played a 501 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: huge role in forming these continental mud rocks, but there 502 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: was mud before the plants. A sediment of clay and 503 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 3: silt sized particles has been produced by erosion of surface 504 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 3: rocks for billions of years. So what appears to have 505 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: changed with the evolution of land plants, is that mud 506 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 3: started to stay on land, to stay on the continents 507 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: as opposed to just being blown or washed out to 508 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 3: sea and settling on the seafloor. So the question is 509 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 3: why did the evolution of plants lead to the retention 510 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 3: of mud on land? And the article mentions a few ideas. 511 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 3: One thing, first of all, is that the authors say 512 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 3: the presents of land plants may actually have helped produce 513 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 3: more mud particles to begin with, lead to erosion processes 514 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 3: that would produce more mud. Now, how would plants help 515 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 3: produce more mud? Well, for one thing, I was reading 516 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 3: this in another article that plants with strong root structures 517 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 3: actually break and crumble larger pieces of rock. Those roots 518 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 3: can break up the rocks physically, crack and break them, 519 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 3: but can also lead to changes in the chemical composition 520 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 3: of soil that break down rocks even further into smaller pieces. 521 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 3: But again, we don't need plants for mud to exist. 522 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 3: There's always been these mud sized the soil particles. So 523 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 3: what other changes did plants introduce? Fissure rites quote. It 524 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 3: is therefore likely that early plants affected the mechanics of 525 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 3: flood plain construction. For example, the presence of plants on 526 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 3: the landscape decreases erosion rates, and thus it was long 527 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 3: hypothesized that erosion, in particular by wind, remove sediment from 528 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: pre vegetated landscapes. Even if mud was deposited on pre 529 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 3: vegetated floodplains, its removal by erosion might have been efficient. 530 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 3: So before there were plants on land, it was just 531 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 3: too easy for small particles of soil to get washed 532 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 3: out to the sea. One way or another. They could 533 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 3: get blown by wind, they could get carried along by 534 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 3: the flow of water after storms and rain, and they 535 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 3: would all just end up on the floor of the ocean. 536 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 3: So it seems like plants and their root structures helped 537 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 3: prevent small soil particles that form mud from escaping into 538 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 3: the sea. But it doesn't stop there. Plants and the 539 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 3: mud that the plants retained changed how rivers form, Fisher 540 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 3: writes quote. In addition to an inhibiting erosion, plants also 541 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 3: interact with river flows and promote the deposition of fine 542 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 3: grained sediment. This can help armor river banks and slow 543 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 3: their lateral migration. Such process might also aid in preserving 544 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 3: muddy floodplain deposits, so plants might sort of help stabilize 545 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 3: the structure of rivers and keep the banks from drifting 546 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 3: all over the place and changing too rapidly, especially during floods, 547 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 3: which helps protect the mud that gathers in floodplains and 548 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 3: keeps it there. 549 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 2: Fascinating, fascinating that the plants kind of corralling the mud 550 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: in many cases. And I think if you've ever been 551 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 2: in a like especially I'm thinking of like estuary type 552 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: environments that I've visited, Like you see these elaborate root systems, 553 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: you see the mud and the sediment. So that's what 554 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 2: I'm picturing during all of this. 555 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And so actually, to help us 556 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 3: better picture it, I found another great article that's on 557 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 3: the same subject, that's on this type of research, but 558 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 3: it includes a lot more like context and imagery to 559 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: help us understand it. So this other article was called 560 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 3: the Origin of Mud from a magazine called Knowable, written 561 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 3: by a writer named Laura Poppic, published in August twenty twenty, 562 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 3: and I thought this was interesting. This article starts with 563 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 3: this anecdote about one of the two authors of that 564 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 3: twenty eighteen study, the geologist Neil Davies. It starts with 565 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 3: this anecdote about him picking through a large fossil formation 566 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 3: from about four hundred and sixty million years ago in 567 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 3: Bolivia containing just tons of smothered fish fish that all 568 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 3: seemed to die at the same time, and apparently this 569 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 3: is not uncommon for marine fossil formations from this period. 570 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 3: You'd have large numbers of fossil fish living near an 571 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 3: ancient shoreline that appear to have all died around the 572 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 3: same time by being choked by mud. So the explanation 573 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 3: for this is probably that there's all this muddy sediment 574 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: that is suddenly washed into the water into the ocean 575 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 3: along the shore, possibly by a storm, and then the 576 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 3: fish underwent death by mud. So this was four hundred 577 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 3: and sixty million years ago before the proliferation of land 578 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 3: plants Poppic writes quote magnified this effect globally, and the 579 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 3: impacts would have been substantial, not just on coastal life, 580 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 3: but on the landscape of the entire planet. Before plants, 581 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 3: rivers would have stripped continents of silt and clay key 582 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 3: constituents of mud and sent these sediments to the seafloor. 583 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 3: This would have left continents full of barren rock and 584 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 3: seas with smothered fish. 585 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: So primordial muddy oceans. 586 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 3: Yes, especially at least around like where the rivers would 587 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 3: drain into them, and landscapes with very little mud at all, 588 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 3: you know, I mean, you can just let your dog 589 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 3: run all over it and then come inside the house. 590 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 3: There's no problem. 591 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. I keep wondering if a wellsy and time traveler 592 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: would have to bring his Victorian galoshes in visiting this 593 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 2: time period. 594 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 3: But of course, plants change all of this. Vegetation, especially 595 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 3: along river banks, gave mud sized particles something to cling to, 596 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 3: and so the mud stayed on land rather than getting 597 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 3: washed or blown out to sea. And in the words 598 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 3: of Neil Davies, this retention of mud on land quote 599 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,839 Speaker 3: fundamentally changed the way the world operates. 600 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 2: Wow. 601 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 3: And so there are some examples of how this mud 602 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 3: revolution changed the continents, changed the world. Essentially. One thing 603 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,800 Speaker 3: is that the geological record reveals that before the evolution 604 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 3: of plants, Earth's rivers probably would have looked more like 605 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 3: the comparison that poppyic uses is the rivers found around 606 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 3: the Gravelly Coast of Alaska today, and she describes these 607 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 3: I'm trying to think so like, imagine if you've ever 608 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 3: seen the kinds of branching braided channels you see as 609 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 3: a stream flows into the ocean across a sandy beach, 610 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 3: so not mud. But you've seen like a stream flowing 611 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 3: over a sandy beach. 612 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 613 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 3: What you'll usually notice is there is not a very strong, 614 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 3: unified channel. Instead, there's just lots of little threads of 615 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 3: channels crisscrossing and always changing. This is referred to in 616 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 3: several sources. I looked at as a braided structure of 617 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 3: alluvial flow. The introduction of plants seems to have changed 618 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 3: this by holding mud in place, and the mud being 619 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 3: sticky would solidify the form of riverbanks, and this led 620 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 3: to stable single channel rivers with fixed banks and boundaries, 621 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 3: rather than these little shrubs of different rivulets changing all 622 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 3: the time, So you end up with the curving, defined 623 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 3: s shaped rivers that we see today. These rivers are 624 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 3: made possible by the presence of mud, which is held 625 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 3: on land by plants. Now, these changes in rivers had 626 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 3: all kinds of interesting biological consequences. For example, the bins 627 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 3: in a river can alter things like the temperature and 628 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 3: chemistry and the water compared to a straight flowing river, 629 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,959 Speaker 3: which can create different micro environments along the river's length, 630 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 3: so that gives all kinds of different little tiny ecosystems 631 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 3: and habitats that organisms would have to adapt to. But 632 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 3: the presence of mud itself is also biologically relevant because 633 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 3: mud is a habitat, so it takes special skills and 634 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 3: evolutionary adaptations to live in mud and move around and 635 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 3: navigate your way through it. For example, it takes different 636 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 3: types of adaptations for movement for a small animal to 637 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 3: get through mud than it does to get through sand 638 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 3: or some other type of surface. And Poppix article consults 639 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 3: a geologist at the University of Oxford named Anthony Shalito 640 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 3: on this subject. I thought this was so interesting, so 641 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 3: Shlido says, here, I'm quoting from popic quote. To get 642 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 3: through mud, and animals such as a worm, creates cracks 643 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 3: to shuffle through by contracting its body, extending it, squeezing 644 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 3: water out of the way, and moving forward. This is 645 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 3: mechanically different from traveling through sand, which requires an animal 646 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 3: to excavate material out of the way. Chiliedo says, so 647 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 3: early land worms and insects would have had to evolve 648 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 3: body parts equipped to deal with muckier movements, but then 649 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 3: in turn the animals that adapt to those muddy environments 650 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 3: change them because Poppic then cites a palaeobiologist from Yale 651 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 3: named Lydia Taran who says that you know, like these 652 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 3: animals living in the in the muddy soil around riverbanks, 653 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 3: they dig in the mud, they excavate the mud, and 654 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 3: this for one thing, it affects the chemistry of the mud, 655 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 3: but it also sort of like breaks and loosens it up, 656 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 3: which allows the mud to further disperse throughout the rivers 657 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 3: and also across floodplains. So you know the valleys where 658 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 3: rivers form between the higher areas of the land. So 659 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 3: because you get these single channel s shaped rivers with 660 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 3: more defined banks, you get these downstream processes that lead 661 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 3: to the build up of muddy flood plains around them, 662 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 3: which don't form as easily along the kind of rivers 663 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 3: you see forming in sand or gravel. 664 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 2: This is fascinating. I'm looking forward to getting back to 665 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 2: some of this in our episode that's going to deal 666 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 2: more with the specifics of some of the animals in 667 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: the world today that make their home on the mud. 668 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely. But I love this story because it's 669 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 3: just one of these amazing examples of how much, you know, 670 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 3: sometimes we don't stop to appreciate the inner play between 671 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 3: like earth and water and life, and the way that 672 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 3: they all are constantly changing each other. That there's this 673 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 3: like massive you know process us like the mud revolution 674 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 3: caused by the evolution of plants on land further gives 675 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,240 Speaker 3: rise to all of these these changes in land based life, 676 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 3: which helps give give rise to more changes in like 677 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 3: how mud accumulates and how sediment is distributed in floodplains 678 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 3: and so forth. So I guess by way of research, 679 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 3: we have once again arrived at cliche. But sometimes that's 680 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 3: how it is. I mean, it's the life and the 681 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 3: inorganic systems that support life, the surface of the earth. 682 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 3: It's a it's a web of interactions. 683 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it is easy to sort of 684 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 2: fall back on just sort of the school textbook mental 685 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 2: image of fish flops onto a beach, fish flops onto 686 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 2: onto some rocks, and now life on earth has begun, 687 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 2: you know, like sort of not not considering mud. Is 688 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 2: this vital realm of evolution and transference. 689 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 3: And human culture and technology, because this is another thing 690 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 3: that Poppic gets into in her article, like she quotes 691 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,399 Speaker 3: would Fisher talking about how there are still things that 692 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 3: we don't fully understand about mud and the way that 693 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 3: riverbanks work and stuff, and this research could help contribute 694 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 3: to that, for example, by giving us better ideas of 695 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 3: how to do river engineering projects like dam construction. You know, 696 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 3: if you have a better idea of the way that 697 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 3: vegetation controls the flow of rivers and how the banks 698 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 3: of the rivers change and respond to flood conditions, you 699 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 3: could better anticipate and prevent, for example, river engineering failures. 700 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 3: The example given in the article here is like flooding 701 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 3: along the Mississippi River. But you know this is of 702 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 3: concern to societies all around the world. 703 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 2: All of this reminds me of that great quote from T. S. 704 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 2: Eliot from four Quartets quote. I do not know much 705 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 2: about gods, but I think that the river is a strong, 706 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 2: brown god, sullen, untamed and intractable. 707 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 3: Well, that's beautiful. And to know that that god may 708 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 3: have been formed of many other lesser gods over time 709 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 3: by the accumulation of mud by plants. Oh, this is 710 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,239 Speaker 3: just a random thing I remembered, but I wanted to 711 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 3: throw it in quickly. Another interesting thing mentioned in that 712 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 3: popic article is the idea that once forests are formed 713 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 3: on land, they can also help contribute to the accumulation 714 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 3: of mud on the continents because they act as a 715 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 3: sort of filter for dust and sediment that is blown 716 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 3: by the wind. So the wind, you know, you can 717 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 3: imagine it picking up fine grain particles of soil, clay, 718 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 3: and salt, blowing them around when they're dry, and normally 719 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 3: they just get blown out to sea. But if there 720 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 3: are forests, they get stopped by the forests, They get 721 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,240 Speaker 3: stuck in the sort of the sieve of the trees. 722 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 3: They fall to the earth, and then they can accumulate 723 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 3: and become mud on the forest floor, flow down into 724 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 3: a river over time with the wash of the rains 725 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 3: and so forth, and then become new muddy banks. 726 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 2: It's amazing. Yeah, it's so easy to take mud for granted, because, 727 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 2: like as if you're just coming at it from the 728 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,399 Speaker 2: perspective of someone who wants to go on a walk 729 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 2: in the woods, and then mud is what happens when 730 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,760 Speaker 2: when something has failed or our conditions are not optimal. 731 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 2: But but this this this look at the MUD's role 732 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 2: in the emergence of life and sort of the construction 733 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 2: of the world as we know it. Yeah, it really 734 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 2: really casts it in a different light. 735 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 3: But we are by no means done with this topic. 736 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 3: I think we should wrap it up for today, but 737 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 3: when we come back, we will be talking about mud 738 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 3: and warfare, Mud and human civilization, Mud on Mars, Mud 739 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,479 Speaker 3: and animal behavior and more mud, monsters. There's all kinds 740 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 3: of stuff. Yeah. 741 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is one of those where we definitely 742 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 2: don't know how many episodes it'll be, so we can't 743 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 2: give you a heads up that this is going to 744 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 2: be two episodes, three episodes. We're just going to have 745 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 2: to listen to the mud and follow the Mud and 746 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 2: let it take us like someone stepping in it on 747 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 2: a on a on a muddy path. We's got to 748 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 2: let it see where we go, how far we're going 749 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 2: to slide in the mud. All right, Well, on that note, 750 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 2: we're going to go ahead and close it out, but 751 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 2: we'll be back next time with more mud. So just 752 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 2: remember that our core episodes of Stuff to Blow Your 753 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 2: Mind publishing the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed 754 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 2: on Tuesdays and Thursdays Mondays. We do listener mail. Wednesdays 755 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 2: we do a short form artifact or Monster Effect, and 756 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,279 Speaker 2: on Fridays we do Weird House Cinema. That's our time 757 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,919 Speaker 2: to set aside most serious concerns and just talk about 758 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 2: a weird film. 759 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If 760 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with 761 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a 762 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 763 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,280 Speaker 3: can email us at contact Stuff to Blow Your Mind 764 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 3: dot com. 765 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 766 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 767 00:45:48,560 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening to your favorite shows. 768 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 2: Fred is Fras with Ratatatata