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Speaker 1: When I would go see I could go visit my

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Speaker 1: parents even now, like my mom would give me cash

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Speaker 1: and like the roles like didn't change. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: I go to the a t M. I'm the generation

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Speaker 1: I go to a t M. You get the twenty

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Speaker 1: dollar bills. And my mom, you know, she's at the

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Speaker 1: generation where they go into bank. So I would see

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Speaker 1: her at games and she would give me like four

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Speaker 1: dollars in cash and uh and so it was really cool.

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Speaker 1: And I you know, so I never have money or

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Speaker 1: cash when I'm with my parents because they always pick

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Speaker 1: up a tack of attack. And I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: tell his business, but at forty plus years of age,

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Speaker 1: Grant Hell, former professional basketball player at one time I

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Speaker 1: believe the face of n C A a basketball when

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Speaker 1: he was at Duke his parents mother more specifically every

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Speaker 1: now and even just slide them some money. Here you go, baby,

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Speaker 1: case you need it. Let's be clear he doesn't need it,

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Speaker 1: but that says a lot about how he was raised.

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Speaker 1: He is our guest on Naked Stick Around. You know,

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Speaker 1: want to miss it coming back after the commercial break.

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Speaker 1: Every champion and carry champions to be a champion of

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Speaker 1: champion and carry champion and carry champion, the champion and

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Speaker 1: carry champion and carry champion rates, raiders and sports and

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Speaker 1: entertainment can naked weirder in the world. With vulnerable considered,

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Speaker 1: we come and remove the vail from entertainment elite. It's

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Speaker 1: a difference tween with it's real and with the public seats.

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Speaker 1: So here's your favorite celebrities behind the scenes. It's refreshing up.

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Speaker 1: Then the whole story specific life ought to rend events

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Speaker 1: to shake the person that you every gotta champion and

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Speaker 1: carry champion the girl you didn't. It's the greatest in

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Speaker 1: sports and entertainment. Cannaked with every champion and carry champions

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Speaker 1: to be a champion, the champion, they carry champion, they

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Speaker 1: girl chappy down the champion. They carry champion and carry Champion. Raiers,

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Speaker 1: freiders and sports and entertainment can naked wipon. So we

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Speaker 1: have Henry hill On naked today. Uh lots to talk

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Speaker 1: about with Grant Hill. He is many of you may

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Speaker 1: know him from his days at Duke. He wants to

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Speaker 1: n c A chips there. He played for almost twenty

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Speaker 1: years in the NBA. I think just shy of that

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Speaker 1: nineteen great great guy, you know let me keep it

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Speaker 1: a buck. The tagline on Grant is if you want

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Speaker 1: a good man, that's the man every woman should want

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Speaker 1: if they have to date a professional athlete, because he's

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Speaker 1: just a good guy. He comes from good stock. He truly.

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Speaker 1: I remember watching him as a kid growing up. He

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Speaker 1: was considered, you know, the American dream. If there was

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Speaker 1: a Canon Barbie, he would be Ken the Black Kid,

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Speaker 1: if you will. But that's a compliment. We get into

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Speaker 1: that on the podcast today. But before I introduce you

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Speaker 1: to Grant Hill in that way, in that naked way,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about Deshaun Watson and um, what

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Speaker 1: is going on in the NFL, if you will. Deshaun

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Speaker 1: Watson has been accused of sexually harassing I want to say,

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Speaker 1: just for the record, twenty four women. Those are twenty

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Speaker 1: four women who have filed a lawsuit against him. There

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Speaker 1: allegedly are far more. He has settled the lawsuit, the

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Speaker 1: civil suit with all except for one. A grand jury

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Speaker 1: has decided not to file criminal charges against him. To

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Speaker 1: grand juries, they felt like there wasn't enough evidence. And then,

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Speaker 1: as a result, once it was known to the NFL

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Speaker 1: that he would not be facing criminal charges, the bidding

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Speaker 1: wars for Deshaun Watson began, and you may remember early

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Speaker 1: on he signed a two hundred and thirty million dollar

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Speaker 1: deal with the Cleveland Browns fully guaranteed. There were a

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Speaker 1: lot of cushions in this deal for him. For instance, if,

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Speaker 1: in fact, uh, the NFL decided to suspend him, he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't lose that much money. Meaning if they decided to

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Speaker 1: suspend him for his behavior outside of the NFL, which

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Speaker 1: is obviously the sexual harassment cases that have been brought

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Speaker 1: against him, that he would not lose that much money. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It was also written in his new contract with the

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Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns is that he would have to go with

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Speaker 1: massage therapists that only the team recommended. So those of

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Speaker 1: you who don't know who Deshaun Watson is, it has

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Speaker 1: now been discovered that over a few years, he contacted

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Speaker 1: over sixty women, if not more, and asked them to

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Speaker 1: massage him. Uh. He is an athlete, he needs to

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Speaker 1: recover and he asked for massages. These are for people

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Speaker 1: who don't know the case. And it turns out that

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Speaker 1: he was reaching out to these women over d m

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Speaker 1: s and when he got into the massage room, the

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Speaker 1: women alleged many women alleged that it was more than

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Speaker 1: just a massage he wanted, sometimes in some cases a

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Speaker 1: happy ending. Uh. He would show up with just a

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Speaker 1: towel over his genitals and nothing else, and he used

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Speaker 1: his leverage as an NFL quarterback to make these ladies

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Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. It all came to ahead when a woman

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Speaker 1: by the name of Ashley Solsee, back into Houston when

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Speaker 1: he played for the Texans, shared her story and and

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Speaker 1: her story seemed really convincing, and she did not say

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Speaker 1: anything until maybe a few months, if not a year later.

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Speaker 1: And so for a long time, because he has been

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Speaker 1: dealing with this since for a very long time, it

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Speaker 1: is now two we couldn't really determine what was going

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Speaker 1: on with Shaun. Uh. Some of the women were questionable,

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Speaker 1: at least we thought they were. And I hate even

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Speaker 1: saying that, because as soon as a woman accuses a

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Speaker 1: man of sexual harassment or any type of sexual assault,

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Speaker 1: you you check her character first and not his. And

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Speaker 1: so for a long time, the media didn't really know

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Speaker 1: how to cover this story, and it laid and laid

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Speaker 1: until these bombshell reports started to come out, specifically from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times showing that he had a pattern

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Speaker 1: of contacting women in d m s and exchanging messages

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Speaker 1: with him that many people saw and read that were

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Speaker 1: very inappropriate, at the very least predatory, at the very

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Speaker 1: most sexually harassing. You don't want to be in any

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Speaker 1: one of those cat glories. But when the criminal charges

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Speaker 1: weren't filed, NFL was like, come on, my brother, come

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Speaker 1: play um, And we know what that is. We've seen

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Speaker 1: it over the years, talent. Trump'sall, how many stories have

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Speaker 1: we seen, whether it be an NFL player, at NBA player,

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Speaker 1: a journalist, a broadcast journalists, a famous personality, an actor,

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Speaker 1: anyone harassing a woman. Harvey Weinstein, for that matter, he

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Speaker 1: had been doing it for years before they brought him down. Decades.

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Speaker 1: If you will, and you wont first check the woman's

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Speaker 1: character to ignore the story. Three, make the woman's life miserable.

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Speaker 1: Four And this is just as of late, there is

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Speaker 1: some sort of justice. So this week Deshaun Watson found

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Speaker 1: out what his actual punishment would be from the NFL,

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Speaker 1: and that was a suspension of six games. And many

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Speaker 1: people thought that was a slap in the face. It

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Speaker 1: came from a neutral arbiter who said, okay, his actions

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Speaker 1: were egregious. It's really inappropriate. He misses six games. The

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Speaker 1: NFL comes back and says, actually, we're gonna pale that sentence.

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Speaker 1: It seems too late. We're going to see if we

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Speaker 1: can take him away for the rest of the season.

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Speaker 1: I say all that to say is that it's so

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Speaker 1: convoluted and it's so messy, and if many of you

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Speaker 1: have been following this, it is a case of a quarterback.

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Speaker 1: It just so happens to be black who was extremely talented,

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Speaker 1: who did some things that were too familiar to too consistent,

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Speaker 1: and quite frankly, too suspicious for us to ignore it anymore.

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Speaker 1: I do believe Deshawn's behavior was completely inappropriate, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to write about it on my I said what

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Speaker 1: I said dot com blog, and I'll post that for

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Speaker 1: you all. But Deshawn's behavior was inappropriate, And if I'm

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Speaker 1: speaking in full candor with you guys, I remember when

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Speaker 1: it first happened to him. I didn't believe it. I've

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Speaker 1: reached out and said, you're doing okay because we had

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Speaker 1: a friendly relationship over d m s, because that's his thing,

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Speaker 1: he d ms. They said, if you could call in

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Speaker 1: help me and give me some advice. I'd like I'd

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Speaker 1: like your advice. Now. Remember calling your man, I was saying,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, let me watch this play out. I

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Speaker 1: just I'm not ready to offer him any advice because

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I don't know. You can't give

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Speaker 1: advice when you don't know all the facts, and right

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Speaker 1: now I think we have just about all the facts.

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Speaker 1: The fact is is that he contacted over sixty women,

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Speaker 1: if not more that we know of, and asked them

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Speaker 1: to massage him. He is an invaluable commodity for the NFL,

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Speaker 1: and you're contacting women with no real discrimination, meaning like

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Speaker 1: just anybody. Hey, I heard you had a business, a

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Speaker 1: black business. I want to support it. A hair I

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Speaker 1: heard you had a business. I want to support it.

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Speaker 1: Give me a massage today at four. I'm sorry. That

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Speaker 1: is not how I believe most professional athletes go about

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Speaker 1: getting massages. They asked for recommendations, They look for good people,

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Speaker 1: and yes some of them, I mean, let's let's keep

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Speaker 1: it aboot. They look for hot chicks and massage because

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Speaker 1: they like it and maybe it's more than what it

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Speaker 1: turns out to be. But you cannot in this and

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Speaker 1: age reach out to women without discrimination, meaning, Okay, there's Susie,

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Speaker 1: there's there's Tanya, there's tom uh that's a horrible name. Sorry, sorry, Grant.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to say that, there's a shell, there's Michael,

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Speaker 1: there's whomever. You can't do that. It just doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: I'm nowhere near as famous, and I'm nowhere near as

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Speaker 1: worth as what he is worth. And I just don't

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Speaker 1: allow different people in my aura because I know that

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Speaker 1: he can get complicated. I don't move certain ways because

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Speaker 1: I know that he can get complicated. I don't have

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Speaker 1: the same access that other women would have. I know

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Speaker 1: that I'm aware of that. I can't just be running

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Speaker 1: up and down the street at work, behaving any old

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Speaker 1: kind of way when I get off work, because I

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Speaker 1: know there are consequences that could possibly follow if I

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Speaker 1: continue to have reckless behavior. And that is at the

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Speaker 1: very least what he had, which was reckless behavior, which

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Speaker 1: seemed predatory. It seemed like he went after certain women.

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Speaker 1: He didn't care. As long as you were a massage

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Speaker 1: therapist and you're kind of cute or cute or whatever,

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Speaker 1: it was attractive to him, And can you massage me today? Now?

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Speaker 1: If you read on the case. I'm giving you a summary.

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Speaker 1: There's so much more involved to it. But what I

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Speaker 1: do know is that it's disappointing that this football player,

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Speaker 1: who at one time was touted as the Michael Jordan's

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Speaker 1: of football. His Clemson college coach said that that both

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Speaker 1: Sweeney he was like, he's a Michael. He's a Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan of a football. He can make it happen. And

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Speaker 1: he is a great player. And you know why he's

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Speaker 1: a great player because the bidding war said, I don't

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Speaker 1: care how many women you've assaulted, can you come play

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Speaker 1: and throw this ball from my football team. When the

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Speaker 1: suspension was handed down, you could hear people at the

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Speaker 1: Cleveland Brown's training cap saying we root for you at

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Speaker 1: training camp. The fans who come and watch, we got

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Speaker 1: you back. To Sean, we don't believe them, we got

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Speaker 1: your back. I mean, he's loved, he's a loved man.

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Speaker 1: And I understand that because these are heroes. These these

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Speaker 1: athletes are heroes. No matter how you slice it, it's

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Speaker 1: just that way. But it's disappointing that the consistent messages

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Let me tell you something. Ben Roethlisberger

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Speaker 1: accused of attempt to create retired famous dealer's quarterback six games.

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Speaker 1: Ray Rice punched his wife in the elevator on camera.

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Speaker 1: We saw it all. The end result was six games.

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Speaker 1: The only reason why that was overturned and his career

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Speaker 1: ended was because it was on camera and people made

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Speaker 1: a fuss. If you were talented, it really does. And

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Speaker 1: I hate to say this name Trump's all talent will

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Speaker 1: solve all problems. If you can get us a win

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Speaker 1: and help us make money, that is the bottom line.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard for me to talk about this guy

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Speaker 1: because I considered him a good guy. I rooted for him,

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Speaker 1: young black kid coming up in the league, super talented,

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Speaker 1: still probably is very talented. If he's able to push

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Speaker 1: through all of this and come back, we need to

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Speaker 1: give him a second chance. But right now, his behavior

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Speaker 1: is unacceptable and it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that he can't

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Speaker 1: admit that this is a problem, and I know why

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Speaker 1: he won't admit it, but it's more unfortunate because it's

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Speaker 1: just another indictment on women. And when we try to

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Speaker 1: tell the truth, and more specifically, those who are listening

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Speaker 1: to my podcast right now, who are men I conna

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Speaker 1: have real issues with me talking about this. Y'all will

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Speaker 1: tell me I'm wrong. Y'all tell me it's not right

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Speaker 1: to bring down a brother. Y'all will remind me of

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Speaker 1: what I said about Floyd Mayweather and say I'm always

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Speaker 1: trying to take the black man down. And I will

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Speaker 1: simply say to this, what about the black woman? What

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Speaker 1: about your black mother, your sister, your wife, your friend,

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Speaker 1: your aunt, your cousin, what about women? Period? Mhm, heavy days,

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Speaker 1: which is why this is to be continued. We'll put

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Speaker 1: a pin of the Deshaun Watson conversation. We'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: I'll update you next week. But now it's time to

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Speaker 1: get naked. To get naked. That was your news and notes, right,

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Speaker 1: I give you your news and your notes. I gave

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Speaker 1: you some updates and I give you my notes. Now

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Speaker 1: it's time for Grant Hill. So I'd like to begin

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Speaker 1: with the story time. First time I met Grant Hill

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Speaker 1: when I was on this side of the business, obviously

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Speaker 1: watched him. Was a fan and people say that, but

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Speaker 1: I really truly was. But when I met him. I

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Speaker 1: met him in Atlanta. It was some basketball event. We

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Speaker 1: talked about it on the podcast, but I remember thinking

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Speaker 1: what a nice man, and what a and what a

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Speaker 1: pristine reputation. But most importantly, he really is what he

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Speaker 1: is said as advertised, right. It's rare that you meet

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Speaker 1: people as advertised that they are the people they have

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Speaker 1: been living that image that they live up to. And

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Speaker 1: I talked to him about his play cousin, Jamal Hill.

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Speaker 1: They call each other play cousins. I talk to him

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Speaker 1: about his marriage. I talked to him about his life

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Speaker 1: as an NBA player. He has a book out which

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Speaker 1: I appreciate, called Game. He's given out Game. You'll go

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Speaker 1: ahead and take it. Go ahead and download, and go

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Speaker 1: ahead and buy it, get it, support, go ahead and

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Speaker 1: support it. And then I kind of I kind of

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Speaker 1: get into some really funny stories. He said three things

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Speaker 1: to me, one of which you heard was about how

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Speaker 1: his parents, he never ever, ever, in his entire career,

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Speaker 1: has given his parents any money. He maybe a bought

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Speaker 1: his dad a car, but that was it. In fact,

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Speaker 1: his parents give him money. And I don't know that

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Speaker 1: to be true of any professional athlete. I would love

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Speaker 1: to interview professional athletes and see how many of them

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Speaker 1: say that that's their experience because his parents are the

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Speaker 1: belief that we don't need yours, we have ours. We're accomplished,

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Speaker 1: we have our own. And that speaks to their character

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Speaker 1: and what they what they wanted for him and what

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Speaker 1: they knew he could do. And boy is that impressive.

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Speaker 1: And I am impressed because most humans are very selfish,

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Speaker 1: like give me, gimme, gimme, gimme, and stand his parents

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Speaker 1: are like no. So I harped on that because that's

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Speaker 1: the thing for me, obviously, speaking from my trauma and

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Speaker 1: my family, not that I am anywhere near close as

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Speaker 1: the type of income he has, but you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, the parents would be like, let me hold something,

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Speaker 1: but what do you mean? Can I hold some back?

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Speaker 1: He talked about being uncomfortable but trying to get comfortable

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Speaker 1: with the fame, and he also talked about nagging injuries

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Speaker 1: that that really really plagued him throughout pretty much his

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Speaker 1: professional career. And it's a great but most importantly, he's

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Speaker 1: just a great human. We need to talk about great humans.

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Speaker 1: I do lift my brothers up. So, without further ado,

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Speaker 1: grant hell, ladies and gentlemen on Naked so first and

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Speaker 1: foremost that the podcast is really just me asking people

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Speaker 1: that I'm really huge hands of just questions and things

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Speaker 1: that I don't I don't know, but I always like

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Speaker 1: when I know someone, I do like to begin with

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Speaker 1: the story. And I want to tell you the first

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Speaker 1: time I met you. Do you remember when we first

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Speaker 1: met and sat and talked? Do you remember that? It

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Speaker 1: was a long time ago? Do you remember, Um? I

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Speaker 1: remember seeing you in in Atlanta. Yes, that was I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it finals something, it was something some

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Speaker 1: sporting yeah, and you sat with me, and I believe

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Speaker 1: it was Rashaan Ali. You just happened to be there,

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Speaker 1: I think. And I was meeting with Rashaan Ali. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember that? And I thought to myself, what a

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Speaker 1: lovely gentleman, like, how kind, how nice? And you and

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Speaker 1: you know, you know the the rap on you right,

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Speaker 1: what people say about you, which is all the things right?

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Speaker 1: You're kind, nice, gentleman, always a good guy, somebody you

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Speaker 1: can count on, dependable. Do you ever, for lack of

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Speaker 1: a better term, feel a way about being called a

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Speaker 1: nice guy all the time? You know? No? I mean

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Speaker 1: I think you know it's not a I can think

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Speaker 1: of worse things to be called. I found it amusing.

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Speaker 1: I think during my career, UM, particularly in Detroit. You know,

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Speaker 1: you gotta understand you're coming off of at that time

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Speaker 1: the bad boys, and the bad Boys were you know,

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Speaker 1: hugely successful. Uh, kind of getting lost in the conversation

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Speaker 1: during that era you talk about the Lakers, which I

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Speaker 1: know you you're a Laker fan. I grew up a

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Speaker 1: Laker fan um with the Lakers and Celtics of the eighties.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, we forget about the Pistons and

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Speaker 1: it goes right to the Bulls and Michael Jordan's. But

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Speaker 1: you know, in Detroit there was a real sort of pride,

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Speaker 1: understandably so for for the accomplishments, and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, it's nice guy comes and I think sometimes

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Speaker 1: people confused nice with weak and and and so that

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Speaker 1: you know, I won't say it other than me, but

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Speaker 1: it was. It was one of those things where I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, you can still, you know, be competitive.

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Speaker 1: You can still you know, you don't get to the

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Speaker 1: n b A and get to an all star level

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Speaker 1: without having you know a little bit of a nasty streak,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a competitive streak, but we can

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Speaker 1: be nice after we beat you. Like that was sort

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Speaker 1: of the mindset and the attitude and so, but now, look,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think the most important thing is to

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Speaker 1: be authentic and to be who you are, and I've

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Speaker 1: tried to do that. Haven't always been perfect, but I

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Speaker 1: think I try to come from from an honest place,

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Speaker 1: which leads me to what I was going to say.

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Speaker 1: There are tons of people who who pretend to be

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Speaker 1: tougher than they really are, right, and then there are

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Speaker 1: those who pretend to be really nice in this business

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Speaker 1: that we are in um and they're real. And it

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Speaker 1: is the rare quality where you meet someone or where

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Speaker 1: their reputation of being that person matches who they are,

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Speaker 1: and for you, it has been that way in all rooms.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just so much to give you your props,

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Speaker 1: but for me that's I feel like that's an honor

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Speaker 1: and a great feeling, because mostly people don't understand who

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Speaker 1: other people are and and the perception is usually not

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Speaker 1: true to who the character is, and for you it matches.

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Speaker 1: And I remember Chuck Charles Barkley telling this story. You

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Speaker 1: can tell me if it's true or not, but we

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Speaker 1: were at work. It was what you know, Chuck's infamous

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Speaker 1: nights where he holds court in a bar, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I think we might have been in Atlanta at the

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Speaker 1: Four Seasons and he was talking about money. It's when

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Speaker 1: we were doing the show arena and it was I

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Speaker 1: believe it was Draymond, Chuck, you know, Tara, everybody, the crew,

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Speaker 1: and he said, I remember Grant Hill's parents telling me,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and by the way, the location may

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Speaker 1: be wrong, but it was in a bar somewhere everybody talking.

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Speaker 1: It might not have been there, but it was somewhere

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Speaker 1: around the world at a bar. And Chuck was holding

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Speaker 1: court and he was like, I remember Grant Hill's parents

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Speaker 1: telling me. When you become really rich and you have

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Speaker 1: money and you start to give it to family and ends,

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Speaker 1: it's never enough. You do know that it's never enough.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember your parents talking to Chuck about that

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Speaker 1: and money and and and what happens when you get

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Speaker 1: into this to this very extremely wild business of the

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Speaker 1: NBA and you become multi multi multimillionaires and people can

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Speaker 1: read about all the money you make. You remember that?

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Speaker 1: I do? I do remember that. It was nineteen uh

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Speaker 1: and coincidentally it was in Atlanta at the Olympics and

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Speaker 1: we were we were at the Western Home or excuse me,

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Speaker 1: the Yeah, the Western hotel, you know, the Omni Hotel.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, the Omni Hotel. I shouldn't know. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a bar, but it was in the in the

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Speaker 1: eating area during lunch exactly exactly. Well, if it had

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Speaker 1: been later in the night, it probably would have correct,

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Speaker 1: but it was, especially with Chuck correct. My parents would

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Speaker 1: just kind of post up there, uh, in the in

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Speaker 1: the cafeteria and you know, just see family members, see players,

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Speaker 1: and they spent a lot of time with with Charles,

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Speaker 1: and it was really kind of cute to see them

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Speaker 1: kind of bonding, and particularly my mom with with Chuck

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Speaker 1: and um, yeah, I mean I'm thinking, you know, here's

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Speaker 1: my mom, like, you know, come on now, like you know,

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Speaker 1: you're giving advice to Charles Barkley, like come on, you know.

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Speaker 1: And but it really resonated with him. And I've heard

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Speaker 1: him say that, I've heard him say it to other

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Speaker 1: people in my presence, uh, and how it really impacted him.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, it just makes me realize and

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Speaker 1: appreciate how how fortunate to have that kind of counsel

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Speaker 1: and to have that support as I tried to navigate

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Speaker 1: you know, celebrity and fame and money and and all

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Speaker 1: the trappings that come with it. Um. You know. You know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things my mom used to always say,

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Speaker 1: since we brought her up was, you know, when I

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Speaker 1: was young, she would say this a lot. I didn't

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Speaker 1: quite understand it, but she would say, don't feel fit,

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Speaker 1: don't fear failure, fear of success, because there's more people

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Speaker 1: who are ruined by it. And and you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: you know, I needed to hear that. It needed to

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Speaker 1: sort of like understand first of all, you know, go

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Speaker 1: for it, don't don't fear failing, um, but also understanding

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Speaker 1: what comes with success and so whether in our industry

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Speaker 1: and television. You know, there's loads of examples of some

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Speaker 1: of which you mentioned. We won't name names, um, But

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Speaker 1: I think through it all just you know, my parents

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Speaker 1: and sort of my dad and and his his career,

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Speaker 1: just trying to be you know, we came of age,

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Speaker 1: or I came of age. I'm a lot older than you,

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Speaker 1: but I came of age during to keep it real generation.

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Speaker 1: And so to me, I interpreted that like, let me

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Speaker 1: be real, let me be who I am, let me

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Speaker 1: be authentic and not try to put on or act

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Speaker 1: a certain way. And and through it all like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think I've done that. Like I think I've tried

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Speaker 1: to stay true to who I am and not be

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Speaker 1: something I'm not and really kind of be proud of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and and and not. You know, like

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Speaker 1: that's what differentiates you. That's what separates you in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways, is you know, your authentic self. So

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Speaker 1: um so yeah, I mean I remember Charles saying that,

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Speaker 1: and and he talks about it a lot. And you know, look,

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Speaker 1: even now, you know my parents when when when I'm

427
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: with them, like they pick up the tap and they

428
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: you know, I still when I would go see I

429
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: could go visit my parents even now, like my mom

430
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: would give me cash and and like the roles like

431
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: didn't change. And so you know, I go to the

432
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: a t M. I'm the generation I go to a

433
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: t M. You get the twenty dollar bills. And my mom,

434
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: you know, she's of the generation where they go into bank.

435
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: So she would with me. I would see her at games.

436
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: We'd play the Wizards and you know, they'd come to games.

437
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: They live in the DC area, and she would give

438
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: me like four dollars in cash and uh and so

439
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: it was really cool and I you know, so I

440
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: never have money or cash when I'm with my parents

441
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: because they always pick up the tap. Okay, so I

442
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: gotta talk about you for five seconds. I got to

443
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: talk about you. First of all, that's absolutely adorable. Second

444
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: of all, that tells me a lot about your parents,

445
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: which I'm gonna get into in a second, because I

446
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: remember when I would watch you playing in college, I

447
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: the the the storylines would be you're the next this,

448
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: and who your parents were and how the family that

449
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: you came from. That was always one of the many storylines,

450
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: like you were I don't know, you guys are the Huxtables,

451
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: you know right at me, like it was the way

452
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 1: in which it was portrayed. Um, So for you to

453
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: say that, it's really adorable. So I need to know

454
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: what have we bought our parents, because I know you're

455
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: not taking four or five dollars from my homegirl like

456
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: that all the time. Like you, I know you botched

457
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: around my house. Come on, now, don't be don't act

458
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: like they just out here giving you money. No, they

459
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: would like. So my parents, so they moved into this

460
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: house that you know when I was a senior in

461
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: high school, and they've been in the house thirty plus years.

462
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: I did. I did buy let me see, I bought

463
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: my dad a car for his bottom of Mercedes and

464
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: nineties seven for his fiftie, and then I bought my mom.

465
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: I did buy our car at one point to escalate,

466
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: I think, but that's it, you know, And so don't

467
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: you don't want anything. Look, they they're insulted that if

468
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: I were to pick up the tab or praise your something,

469
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: and so, you know, they're like, look, we got our

470
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: own money. We don't need you know, we don't need

471
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: your your handouts and so. Um. But here's the thing,

472
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: here's the thing that was fascinating about that. This whole

473
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: conversation is fascinating. I don't know a black parent, don't

474
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: that don't be like, give me something like this is fascinating. Well,

475
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think it speaks to you know,

476
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: that their achievers, and they've they've had their own successes

477
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: and and and and and so certainly I'm mindful of

478
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 1: that and they're proud of that. Um. But also, you know,

479
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to judge or I don't want

480
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,239
Speaker 1: to come off the wrong way, but I think the

481
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: fact that I've never liked you know took care of

482
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: them financially, and I would. I mean, I would if

483
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: if I needed to. But I think it's it's allowed

484
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 1: for the relationship to be real and to be like

485
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: they never once have had beiten their tongue. They never

486
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: like you know, had to bite their tongue or hold

487
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: back or change the role of being a parent. And

488
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm not perfect and sometimes I miss

489
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: I make mistakes. I've heard I never Yeah, I don't

490
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: believe it. I don't believe that. My parents and my

491
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: wife would tell you, yes, I made a lot of it.

492
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: But you know, they've always like they've been able to

493
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: be straight shooters with me, and you know, having people

494
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: who tell you what you need to hear. I think

495
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: it's so important as we talk about navigating celebrity in life,

496
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: and they've always done it. And and so I think

497
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: if they were on the quote unquote pay roll, that

498
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: that might compromise that a bit, that might make it difficult.

499
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that that's the case for

500
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: other people, but I just know, you know, money has

501
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: not changed the dynamics of our relationship, and um, and

502
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 1: that's something I'm grateful for. You're you. For those who

503
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: are listening, he is making a very valid point that

504
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: you can only understand it if you've seen it. So

505
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: so in this business, I started out working in terms

506
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: of when I decided to go strictly into sports, I

507
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: was working at the Tennis channel and I would watch

508
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: these literally no lies, seventeen eighteen year old kids who

509
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: had lots of money, and they would control their parents

510
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: and their trainer and everybody else involved, and the parents

511
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: couldn't really be themselves. The kids were running the house

512
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: that we're running the household because they had the money.

513
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: The dynamic shifts when the person with the money is

514
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: in control, right, even in this case. So I do

515
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. And I have seen the yes

516
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: men and women around said celebrity, said athlete, And you're right,

517
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: it changes how you all interact. I think though, that

518
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: is honorable and I and by way of background, your

519
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: father he went to Yale um correct, he played in

520
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: the league the NFL. Correct. Now, tell tell us a

521
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: little bit about the pressure, and also about your mom

522
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: and what she did in her own accomplishments, because I

523
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: had to be a lot of pressure growing up with

524
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: these two, these two parents who are achievers in their

525
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: own right, you know what I mean. Yeah, No, Look,

526
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: my dad, you know, my grandfather and my paternal grandfather

527
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: had a you know, second grade education, and so you know,

528
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: for him, he always emphasized, you know, the importance of education.

529
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: And one thing my dad, you know, would always share

530
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: was that, you know, my grandfather bought him some encyclopedias

531
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: when he was a kid. And and so anyway, education

532
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: and I think for that generation, I mean, education was

533
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: obviously because it was denied to us, um it was all,

534
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, it was definitely emphasized. And then my dad

535
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: wanted scholarship to go to a boarding school, which he

536
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to go to, but his father made him go.

537
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: And I think that really changed, he would say, the

538
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: trajectory of his life. And so now he arrives as

539
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: a ninth grader and all these kids are talking about

540
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools and and so it was an Ivy

541
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: League sort of prep school, which you know, he excelled

542
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: in sports and eventually went on to Yale um and

543
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: playing in the NFL thirteen years. And then my mom,

544
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: you know, she came grew up in a segregated South,

545
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: you know, never never really met or had a conversation

546
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: with somebody white and then went to you know, Boston, Massachusetts,

547
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 1: and went to Wellesley and was one of five black

548
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: young women at the school. And so that was a

549
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: bit of a of a culture shock. But you know,

550
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: I think for both of them, you know, being taken

551
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: out of their comfort zone, um in an education, educational

552
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: environment and in higher education and secondary education. UM, I

553
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: think it really kind of opened their eyes. And and

554
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, my mom went on and she had her

555
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: own corporate consulting firm um for for thirty years on

556
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, and you know, we we we joke. She

557
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: she's uh, she's starting on a number of corporate boards

558
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: like next Talal Sprint, Sprint next to Wendy's, the Carlisle Group.

559
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: She went into the National Association of Corporate Directors Hall

560
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: of Fame, and so she likes to say that you

561
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: know that, uh, you know, we're not the only ones

562
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: in the Hall of fame. She's in the Hall of

563
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: Fame too. So you know, she's she's been sort of

564
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: the star of the family and certainly had a great

565
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: business career. So growing up, UM, there were expectations, Uh,

566
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: there were also I think their example. Um, and the

567
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: access uh and the exposure that they provided was invaluable.

568
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: But you know there was also pressure and UM, you know,

569
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: my parents we're pretty incredible, not just with my black peers,

570
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: but with all my peers. Like, you know, I didn't

571
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: see a lot of my friends black, white, or whatever

572
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: who had parents quite like mine. And so UM, I

573
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: at times go with feeling like trying to live up

574
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: to their success and trying to live up to what

575
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: they've accomplished. And that was you know, twelve thirteen, fourteen

576
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: years of age. You're trying to figure out who you are.

577
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: You know, you you're going through that. You know, middle

578
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: school is not fun for anyone, I think when you

579
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: look back on it, but you know this is sort

580
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: of like wow, like no matter what I do, you

581
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: know they've done it, you know, on a whole another level.

582
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: And so I remember I did a science project. I

583
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: don't I can't remember science fair or whatever science project.

584
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: And I remember I was talking to my mom and

585
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: she was like, yeah, in nineteen sixty whatever she did,

586
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 1: she won the National Science Fair with her project. And

587
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: I was like, man, like I can't do anything, you know,

588
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: and solar system you got Mars and you got Saturn

589
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: and toothpicks that have been something I did exactly. I'm thinking,

590
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get a be minus like she's

591
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: talking about. You know, she was, you know, the best

592
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: science project in the in the country. So I mean,

593
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: so they were achievers. But you know, they always try

594
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: to empower me. They always try to you know, my

595
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: mom and my dad are always been my biggest fans

596
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: and supporters. And I do think and I talked about

597
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: a little bit in the book, but I think I

598
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: think basketball kind of helped validate it defined me. It

599
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: gave me confidence, um and really helped me grow into

600
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: who I became and um. But yeah, no question they were.

601
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 1: They were achievers and that was like whoa like this is?

602
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I'm just trying to just I'm just

603
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: trying to like not have seas on my report card,

604
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, and do not go anywhere more stories with

605
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: Great Hill and how he is living in this space.

606
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: When we come back, you can pass forward through the

607
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: commercial break too. Okay, Every champion and Carvery champion is

608
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: to be a champion, a champion and carry chappion and

609
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: carry chappiyon a champion and carry Chappion and carry Chappion

610
00:32:53,000 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: and sports and Entertainmking make it work. Every champion and

611
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: they carry Chappion, Champion, they carry Champion and chi Welcome back.

612
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: Gret Hill is on the podcast He's naked in your

613
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: own right, and I'm sure they tell you this. You

614
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: are so accomplished and you talk about I mean, look,

615
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: part owner of a team, art collector. That is that

616
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: that that people know of. I'll get into that, but

617
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: but not only that. Um an author, right, you have

618
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: a book, every memoir game, and I think for me

619
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: that has to be one of the hardest things to

620
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: do to sit down and write about yourself and and

621
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: be very honest and authentic and know that people will

622
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: read it and judge you. And you do talk about

623
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: confidence and how um the game of basketball gave you that.

624
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: I always thought, this is my observation. I am not

625
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: a psychologist, but watching you, watching you in college, watching

626
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: you play, there was always this quiet um and I

627
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: don't want to say brooding, because that wasn't the but contemplation.

628
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: I always felt like you were consistently in thought, and

629
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: not just about the game, but just like heavy thought.

630
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: And I always wondered what was going through your mind

631
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: during that time, And I don't know if it was

632
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: that you might have been frustrated with injuries, right, I

633
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: don't know if you ever thought that people, you know,

634
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: if you got the respect that you deserved. I don't.

635
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I always thought you were always contemplating.

636
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: Am I wrong? You could be honest and I could

637
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: be wrong. I know, I'm I think I'm a thinker.

638
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: I think I I you know, I think personality. What

639
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean, Look, I'm in media, so you know, we're

640
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: paid to talk and have an opinion and um, but

641
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: I think my nature is it is to be to

642
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: myself and somewhat introverted. Um. And if I'm in a

643
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: public setting, I'm more at ease and more comfortable observing

644
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: and and um, you know instead of being on you

645
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: know like that I can do it. But that's not

646
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: something where you know, like we talked about Charles, Charles

647
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: likes the whole court like he he gets energy from

648
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: doing that. That that is draining to me. And so

649
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: I think that combined with being an only child, like

650
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: you're accustomed to being lost in your thoughts and and

651
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: sometimes that that can you know, that can be a hindrance,

652
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, like that can can you can get you

653
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: know too caught up in and over analyzing things and

654
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 1: and looking at things from every standpoint. Um. But yeah,

655
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: I mean I think I'm I'm. I think by nature

656
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: that's who I am. I think at different stages of

657
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: my career. Um, you know, when I got hurt and

658
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: I came back. I mean, you know, early on in

659
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: my career, my my career was was kind of all

660
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: over the map in terms of what I experience. But

661
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: you know, there was a there was an interesting how

662
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: do I put it? I was I was kind of

663
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with the limelight and the attention. I didn't run

664
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: from it. I didn't do Tim Duncan and just keep

665
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: quiet and play. I leveraged it. I monetized it, you know,

666
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: I made money for off of it. But it was

667
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: never something that that I was comfortable with. And and

668
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: so part of that is I'm private. Part of that

669
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: is I just don't like the attention on me. Uh,

670
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: and so what do I do? I write a book?

671
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: You know, But but you know, I mean I think

672
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: you're pretty close to that. I think I think that's

673
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: a good assessment. If you were no but what you

674
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: just said makes sense, right you you Maybe there was

675
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: a discomfort. Maybe that's what I was doing. I was like,

676
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: I don't think he likes all this attention. However, however,

677
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: for someone who doesn't like all the attention, it came

678
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: to you and in a huge way, Um the face

679
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 1: of in c double a, you know what I mean,

680
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: the face of you know, the NBA at one point,

681
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: right you come out and and people there's there There

682
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: was no wrong that you could do, in my opinion,

683
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: and I felt like, either he's uncomfortable with this, or

684
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: this is a lot of pressure. Maybe it is all

685
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 1: of the above. But then grant you have an acting career.

686
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: You're popping up on TV shows, on my little favorite

687
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: sitcoms and stuff. So I was like, he's gonna be actor?

688
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: Why you? Why? Why you? Why you? Why are you acting?

689
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: If you're uncomfortable, tell me, tell me, tell me why

690
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: are you an actor? I mean, you know, I think

691
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: I think I realized. So it was interesting. I was

692
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: with my handlers as I was with my people before

693
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: the draft and the summer before my rookie year, and

694
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, one they said, you have a

695
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: chance to be a brand and I didn't understand what

696
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: that meant. I knew what a brand was. I knew,

697
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: like you know, I equated a brand to McDonald's or

698
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: Nike or or whatever. I didn't think an individual was

699
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: a brand. You know. It just shows you how much,

700
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: you know, everyone now is very brand awareness, uh conscious

701
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: of their brand, But back then that was something that

702
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, I had the process, and then I remember,

703
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: like you know, I remember, like I want I said

704
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: to everybody, I said, I want to know and I

705
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: want to feel what it's like to be Michael Jordan's

706
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: And what I meant by that was, to me, he

707
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: embodied excellence. He won. Um he was the darling of

708
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: Madison Avenue. He was the face of the league, and

709
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: so to me, he was the standard and really kind of,

710
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: you know, has been sort of the standard ever since.

711
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: I mean, Lebron and others have been able to take

712
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: that maybe and go to a whole another level in

713
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: some respects, but like Jordan was the gold standard and

714
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: and so um so to me that that man I

715
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: was doing, I was, you know, I was on a

716
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: trajectory of success. I was gonna be go down is

717
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: maybe one of the greatest, and so all that that

718
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: encompassed was what I wanted, or at least I told

719
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: myself I wanted. But then as I got into it,

720
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: I wasn't like I didn't necessarily enjoy on it. I

721
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy all the attention. I didn't enjoy you know,

722
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: going out and all eyes on me. Um. You know,

723
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: I had a bucket list you have to go on,

724
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: like living single, like you have you know, a funny

725
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: story with that is that? So they asked me to

726
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: come on. I said I would do it. I flew

727
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: out to l A and you know, they'd have a

728
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: table reading, like on a Thursday, and then you'd rehearsed

729
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: through the weekend, and then you might have a live studio,

730
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: live recording. So they send the script to the hotel

731
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: and I don't read it. You know, I'm not I'm

732
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: not reading. We got a whole week of rehearsal. So

733
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: I showed up at the reading and as we're going

734
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: through it, I'm like, oh crap, Like I'm in a

735
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: lot of scenes, Like I'm like I'm sitting there like

736
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: and then have to like I gotta kiss and I

737
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: gotta they gotta me singing like I'm sitting there like,

738
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: how am I gonna pull this off? Like I had?

739
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: And so then it hit me. I was like, it's

740
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: I don't think I can do this, like and I

741
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: remember I called my agent and I was like, I

742
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: need to back out of this, like that it's too much.

743
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: And they were like, it's too late. They've already committed.

744
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: You know, they're on a schedule. And so everybody was great.

745
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: You know, Dana uh Queen Latifa, she was awesome the

746
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: whole set. I'm not a like, I wasn't a p

747
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: d A guy like at that point, like I I

748
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: didn't hold hands. I never like I didn't like the

749
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: kiss in front of people, like you know, and now

750
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, so we go through the week, we reheard

751
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: and it's really funny. I had a multiple sort of

752
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: kissing scenes with Latifa. By the way, that was so

753
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: rude of them to do that to you, because they

754
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: were like, let's see him differently than he normally is.

755
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: That's rude. I don't like it now, but you know,

756
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: I don't mind. I mean, and in the long run,

757
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: being taken out of your comep for zone is a

758
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: good and so but we never rehearsed the kids, and

759
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: there was one kiss where were on the couch and

760
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: it was like one of those things where like you

761
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: just kind of staring stare at each other and then

762
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 1: you just go forward. And but we never went forward

763
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: and rehearsal and and so I didn't know, like is

764
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: this a real kiss? It's a fake kids, Like I

765
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: didn't know. You didn't ask about time out, tim out,

766
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: I need a fifteen. You didn't ask those questions. You

767
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: didn't say, do I have to look at you and

768
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: then go do a real kiss? Because I would think

769
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: I would establish at first, like is it tongue? Is

770
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: it not tongue? Like you didn't ask those questions. No,

771
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: that that wasn't you know, that wasn't established, and um,

772
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: and maybe I just you know, like I said, I

773
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to act like I didn't know what was happening,

774
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: so I just kind of went with the flow. Uh.

775
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: And so, and then the scene was I will say

776
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: whether it was a real kiss or not, you know,

777
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: out of respect, I won't say what that was or that. Okay,

778
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: say that the scene was we kissed two dark. So

779
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: it went went to commercial and they were gonna cue

780
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: us when when when it was done? So so we

781
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: never rehearsed that. We just rehearsed up until that, so

782
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: then I can't believe I'm telling the story. But anyway,

783
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: so then we actually live studio audience were in the

784
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: midst and then they don't cue us, and so it's

785
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: like for a minute, so they would be so anyway

786
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: that so thankfully we only had to do it one time.

787
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: But anyway, I say all that to say that, like,

788
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: I was not a p D A guy. I I

789
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: was not someone like acting and here I am like

790
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: in every scene and uh and every once in a

791
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 1: while they replay it because I you know, you'll see

792
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter people will talk about all the Latifa scene

793
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: and you know whatever whatever. But um, but yeah, I

794
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: mean that that that was here for a minute and

795
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: they didn't cull you guys to stop. Yes, I think

796
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 1: that might have been. I think she might have said,

797
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: don't kill me. Look, I don't know what happened. She

798
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: was like fine, and I'm just like whatever, you know

799
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: what you don't want to hear that. Look it was

800
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: it was. It was a fun experience. Um, and you

801
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: know it was, like I said, it was one of

802
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: those I will say that I was never asked to

803
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: come back, and clearly it was a one and done opportunity.

804
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: Don't mind me, I am silly. I am having too

805
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: much fun with this story. I totally understand that I have.

806
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: You know, the nature of the business. People ask you

807
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 1: to act, and you're like, I'm not an actor, and

808
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: so when they asked us to do these things that

809
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: take us out of our comfort zone, I don't like it.

810
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: I know, I agree with you. It makes me. I

811
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 1: was like, I can be myself, but that's not because

812
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: like it's not the same, it's two different things. But

813
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: I'm also looking. You were on an episode of Home Improvement.

814
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: You did a lot of little things, and so all

815
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: of these things not necessarily your favorite, but you did

816
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: them because you thought that was what was required of

817
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: you at the time. Could we get you in a

818
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: Tyler Perry movie at this moment as an actor, if

819
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: Tyler Perry came to you as they grant my man

820
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 1: listen for you. Yeah, Look, I mean I I've I've

821
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: grown since then, and uh it was as long as

822
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: it was just in in general, like I'm more comfortable.

823
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 1: You know, I was young. I was twenty two on

824
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: living single, but uh, look I was in I was

825
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: actually in a small part in a Will Packer movie,

826
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: which one the movie UM with Taraji Henson What What

827
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: Women Want? What Men Want? And there was a poker

828
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: scene with Shock and me and a few other people

829
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: and we we um. So that was and I actually,

830
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not proud of it, but I actually cursed.

831
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: So it was It was kind of funny seeing me

832
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: like kind of like go off like I did. But

833
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: that was fun to see the whole process. And Will

834
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: is a good friend of mine, and Will kind of

835
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: you know, allowed me to be in a movie although

836
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: it was a real small part, and he hasn't asked

837
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: me to come back, so clearly once again, one and done.

838
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: But you know what, I can check it off and

839
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: say that that that I did it. So I'm cool.

840
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: Hollywood is unnoticed. Grant is ready. He is. He is

841
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: willing to put himself out there. Do you okay? So

842
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: you said you had to curse? Do you curse in general? Never? Yeah?

843
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: I mean I I from time to time, I will.

844
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: I try not to, but you know, sometimes you just

845
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: it comes out. Do you drink? Oh yeah, here's the

846
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 1: funny that. Here's a funny thing. I didn't drink until

847
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: I met my wife, and so that sounds horrible when

848
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: you say, like, you know, I didn't, but no, it

849
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: was seriously like I didn't drink. Like I went through

850
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: college and my first couple of years, I didn't drink

851
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: at all. And and then one day she said, we

852
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: have to change this. If we're gonna survive, we're gonna

853
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: have to change this. And so so now, yeah, you know,

854
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: have the asianal cocktail. I love her for that, because

855
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: that's real. I don't trust nobody who don't drink get

856
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: around me as they use it. I just be in

857
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: a relationship with somebody for a very long time. He

858
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: never drank, and I'd like at least take a sip

859
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: of wine. Don't have me out here about myself looking crazy.

860
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: So I appreciate I appreciate that she um, she made

861
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: you have a cocktailler to speaking of your wife. Beautiful,

862
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: beautiful voice, beautiful soul, beautiful To me, I had to

863
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: tow how did you all meet? So? You know? To me,

864
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: it was from Windsor, Ontario, which is I like to say,

865
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 1: it's a suburb of Detroit. Um and uh even though

866
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: it's a you know, for it's Canada, but it actually

867
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: kind of started. Isaiah Thomas my second year, was getting

868
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: his jersey retired at the Palace and Anita Baker saying

869
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: the national hand. And so afterwards there was a reception

870
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: at the Palace, and you know, I went up there

871
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: and all the old bad boys were there, and I

872
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: got a chance to meet her and her then husband,

873
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: and so, you know, she she was I don't know,

874
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: somehow the conversation, she was like, I'm sure you're breaking

875
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: all the hearts or you know whatever. You got a girl,

876
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, And I was like, Na, you need to

877
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: hook me up, just kind of casually saying that, jokingly

878
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: saying that. And so I think a week later, Anita

879
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: Baker was at I don't know, Soul Train Awards, one

880
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: of the award shows, and she met to MEA and

881
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: this is when to me it first came out. I

882
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: think she was on Quincy's album You Put a Move

883
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: in My Heart. And to me, it's that I'm from

884
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: the area, I grew up a big fan of yours.

885
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: And so Anita was like, oh, I know just the

886
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: person for you, blah blah blah, this is who it is.

887
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: And so to me, A, I swear she didn't know

888
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: who I was at that time. But I'm like, yeah, right, Um,

889
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: I'm joking when I say that. Yeah, I mean I

890
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: would be like yeah right too, Like, oh, you don't know,

891
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: so fast forward. We met in Detroit maybe later that year,

892
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean we've we've you know, pretty much

893
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: been together ever since ninety six. We met in May

894
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: of ninety six, and you know, it was interesting, Like

895
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: I I didn't think that I was gonna jump into

896
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: a relationship, a serious relationship, you know, I just I

897
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: felt like to be an elite player, you know, it

898
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: was a sacrifice and a dedication, and I didn't know

899
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: if I could manage having a relationship. So I think

900
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: I was gonna do the Derek Jeter thing like that

901
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: was sort of what you know before Derrek. Get I'm

902
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: older than Derek, but like I was just gonna sort

903
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: of casually date until I was older and then settled down. Um,

904
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: and you know, you make plans and God laughs, and

905
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: but we instantly were smitten and kind of fell in

906
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: love and got into a relationship and and that wasn't

907
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: what I thought. But you know, you know, you you

908
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: instantly when you meet somebody and you know it's right

909
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: it's right. And it was interesting because like, you know,

910
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: we got young, we got married. I got married in

911
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: ninety nine, she was twenty four, is twenty and I

912
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: think there were people even friends of mine, were like,

913
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: why are you getting married? Like dude, like what are

914
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: you doing? You know, and and uh and um it

915
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: was when you know, you know, it's been an incredible

916
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: journey and twenty three years. We just celebrated last week

917
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: and yeah, no, thank you, thank you. And so you know,

918
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: we've I couldn't imagine you know, going through the injuries

919
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: and the struggles and the highs and the lows. Uh.

920
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: And then you know, conversely with her, like you know

921
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: what she's going through, she's you know, she has a book,

922
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: she has a story. Uh. And it's been fun. It's

923
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: been a blast. Our kids are you know, are older

924
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: now twenty and fifteen. Um, so parenthood is has been

925
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: great and watching them grow and and then sort of

926
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: looking ahead, you know, like you empty nesters, you know,

927
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: like now you kind of get your life back a

928
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: little bit, you know, you can do things and uh

929
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: and so but it's been it's been awesome. And so

930
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: I always want to see Anita Baker. I think her,

931
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: and what a great story. Anita Baker hooked us up

932
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: and then you guys just so happened you have met

933
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: her before she had her own situation situations over like

934
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: this is a story first of all. Like again, I

935
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning of the podcast when I

936
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: tell you you're a rare breed, because I couldn't imagine

937
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: being in the NBA, being twenty four years old, having

938
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: access to just about any in terms of dating anybody

939
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: you could date, because that's probably what it was for you.

940
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: And your friends are like, dude, you're gonna get married.

941
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: What you've given up all of this? You're giving up

942
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: this you could have this lifestyle. And it's almost like

943
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 1: I always laugh because men act like um when their

944
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: homeboy gets married. It's like they put them in front

945
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: of a fire range and the good times are over.

946
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: Like many I guess you it's a funeral. It's a

947
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: funeral for the your frands act like it's a funeral

948
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: when you get married, and the women are like, I'm

949
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: so excited. It's exciting, but I was so beautiful. It's

950
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: a beautiful story. And what's even better, you know, and

951
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 1: nothing's perfect, but it's always a beautiful story to see

952
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: a couple in the limelight make it because it cannot

953
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: be easy doing it in without having fame, you know

954
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: what I mean, So imagine doing it with fame. I

955
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine how difficult it was for you all at

956
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: that time. Um. And then I know in your book

957
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: you talk about the injuries and all you went through.

958
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: He played nineteen years. Yeah, nineteen years. Was there a

959
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: time that you wanted to and share this with them

960
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: when you really thought I want to retire before the

961
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: nineteen years or you kept going back because you felt

962
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,919
Speaker 1: like I still have more to give the game. Yeah,

963
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, there was only a real small window where

964
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,959
Speaker 1: I thought about retiring, and that was you know, after

965
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: my you know, I had staff infection and you know

966
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: with septic and the whole ordeal that was. That was tough. Um,

967
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: for like two or three months, I was like, you

968
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: know what, I almost died because of my you know,

969
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: desire to play. And you know, maybe some incompetent medical

970
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: advice uh in there as well, and it's not you know,

971
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: it's not worth it, but um, but yeah, I mean

972
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: I I was pretty relentless about wanting to get back

973
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: and play and I think, you know, I think, I

974
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: think one, I love I love the game. You know,

975
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: I loved playing and I knew that once you walk

976
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: away from it, like it's over and something you commit

977
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: your whole life too, and something you are passionate about,

978
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: and and just you know, I think for anyone, just

979
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: in general, to retire, it's not an easy transition. And

980
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 1: so like I wanted to exhaust everything before I walked away.

981
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 1: And uh So in the midst of all of that,

982
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, I kept saying, like, Okay, I'm gonna make

983
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: up for it. On the back end, I'm gonna play

984
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: until I'm forty, and I promise you that day I

985
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: turned forty, my last year with the Clippers, I hurt

986
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 1: my knee. And now it was it was the the

987
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: third knee injury in a year, but it was like

988
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: like it was third knee injury on the same knee.

989
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: But I heard it and I was out for like

990
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: three or four months, and it was like, man like

991
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: I used to always say when i'm I'm gonna make

992
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: up for it and play until on forty. And the

993
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: day I turned forty, I get hurt. And so I

994
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 1: should have said I should have said fifty and uh

995
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: but um, but yeah, no, I mean, I just I

996
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: forgot the question. Forgive me, I'm going on. But it's

997
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: just like, sometimes it's hard to walk away from something

998
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: you love. And I said, did you ever feel like

999
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: you said when you have staph infection and you thought

1000
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: for at the time and then you kept playing because

1001
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: you felt like you had something to give the game

1002
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: or you just loved it. You couldn't imagine your life

1003
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: without that routine, without the travel, Like that becomes a

1004
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: that becomes addictive and it just becomes your lifestyle. You think,

1005
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: what am I gonna do now? Like that's a real

1006
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: serious question for a lot of athletes too, who retire,

1007
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: who walk away from the game, Like what's next for me?

1008
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Well, yeah, I mean I think, okay,

1009
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 1: a couple of things, yes, no, no question, the desire

1010
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: to keep playing, and I think as I did transition

1011
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: into retirement, um, and really the process of writing this

1012
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: book and even just kind of living with the book

1013
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: and then you know, kind of building up to the

1014
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: release of the of the book. You know, I think this,

1015
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, I think I realized that in sort of

1016
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: time to unpack some things, I got a lot on

1017
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: my plate and a lot that I'm doing, and I

1018
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: think a lot of that has to do with maybe

1019
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: things not ending or going the way I would have

1020
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: liked them to have gone during my career. And so

1021
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:55,479
Speaker 1: this like incredible drive to like succeed and and to

1022
00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: to accomplish something. And you know, to me sometimes with

1023
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: joke like early in retirement, she's like, man, I thought

1024
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: retirement was like, you know, a rocking chair and lemonade,

1025
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: and and I was going and hustling, like she said,

1026
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: You're you're hustling like you're broke, like you know, and

1027
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: and I would just, you know, gotta stay hungry and

1028
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta strike while the iron is hot

1029
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 1: or whatever cliche you use, Like I just and now

1030
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: that I kind of take time to survey everything, and

1031
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: I like where I'm at and I like what I'm doing,

1032
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: but I feel like I feel like I didn't deal

1033
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: with sort of what happened or what didn't happen. And

1034
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: I think, as a yeah, and so there's like this

1035
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: like I didn't I didn't win championships, I didn't stay

1036
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: on this trajectory of where I was going with my career.

1037
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: And really the process of writing the book really kind

1038
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: of helped me realize that. Um and so I think

1039
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: this drive like so the drive, you know, the drive

1040
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 1: can be good. You know, we reward ambition, We rewarded

1041
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: she eavement. Um, but I haven't. I'm learning to the

1042
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: work life balance part. And that's something I don't think

1043
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 1: I've done a good job of. And so I'm trying

1044
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: to sort of correct that and be more intentional about

1045
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's okay to work hard, but it's also

1046
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta have balance in your life. Um

1047
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: and and so. Um. Anyway, the book I think helped

1048
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 1: me with you know, coming to that realization. Eventually, every

1049
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: champion and carry champion is to be a champion, a

1050
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: champion and carry chappion and carry champion, A champion and

1051
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 1: carry chappion and carry champion afraid it's a sports and

1052
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: entertaining can make it work. Every champion and carry champion

1053
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: is to be a champion, a champion. They carry champion

1054
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: and they champion, they carry champion, they carry champion sports

1055
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: and then the taming can make him. I can't even

1056
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: understand what it would mean right too. Went on the

1057
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 1: collegiate level, and we'll talk about college and broad strokes

1058
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: in a minute. For me, the college game and your

1059
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: contribution um, but not to win on a professional level

1060
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: seems to be painful for so many players. But then

1061
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: I look at players like Cobe and he still regrets

1062
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,919
Speaker 1: not getting one over Jordan's, you know what I mean?

1063
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: Like bag he rest in peace. That was his like

1064
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: kind of hate. I had to retire before I couldn't

1065
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: even get the number the same or one over Jordan's.

1066
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: So do you think most players feel that way or

1067
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: is it a special type of player like a grand

1068
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,479
Speaker 1: heel or a I think of great players like Vince

1069
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: Carter who didn't win or even shocked for that matter,

1070
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: he didn't want a chip, but they contribute to the

1071
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: game in such a way and there's still Hall of

1072
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: famers as you are, and still considered the best at

1073
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: what they did during that time. Do you ever make

1074
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: peace with the fact that you didn't get a championship

1075
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: in the NBA? Yeah, you know, I can't speak for

1076
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: those I mean, I know Vincent and Chuck very well.

1077
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: I don't I haven't had a port of it a

1078
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: deep naked conversation with them on this subject matter, But

1079
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: I can speak to myself. I mean, I thought I

1080
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: had I thought I was good, Like I thought that

1081
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: I was at peace with my career and what happened

1082
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 1: and when unfolded, and I think I've realized that maybe

1083
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm not totally at peace. And there's that void, and okay,

1084
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: what do you replace that void with? And you know,

1085
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: some people can have a void and something and you know,

1086
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: it can be something toxic or something dangerous, is gonna

1087
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: be drugs out whatever. I mean, But I just think,

1088
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: like I think, like I said, in recent years, I

1089
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: realized like it's it's this like incredible desire to prove

1090
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: myself to myself, you know in a way, and and

1091
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: so learning to kind of manage that and and you know,

1092
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: understanding that because I think what happens. I mean, I

1093
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: can't speak for those guys, but I think I think

1094
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: sometimes we naturally focus on what we we didn't do,

1095
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: you know, or what we don't have and and as

1096
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: opposed to really sort of having a feeling of gratitude

1097
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: and appreciation for what you do have. And you know,

1098
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: when I was in Detroit, and you know, I was

1099
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 1: doing all these things, and I had a lot of

1100
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: individual success and um on and off the court. I

1101
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: didn't give myself permission to enjoy it because we weren't winning.

1102
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: We weren't like, we didn't win, and I blamed myself

1103
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: for us not winning. So I didn't really like appreciate

1104
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: the good and appreciate what was happening. Um And you know,

1105
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: to me, like like at Duke, whether you love or

1106
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: hate took whatever, I mean that that's one thing, but

1107
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: like it was all about winning, and that was what

1108
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: we were conditioned to believe. I didn't care about individual stats,

1109
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't care. Like it was just whatever

1110
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: we have to do to win. And then I go

1111
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: into the n b A and all this other stuff,

1112
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: which is great, but I didn't care. But like, to me,

1113
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: the most important thing was winning, and we weren't winning,

1114
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: and so I couldn't enjoy all this other stuff. And

1115
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: and so the the writing of the book forces you

1116
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: to go back and live in certain moments and live

1117
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: and you know, and confront things good and bad about

1118
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: your past. I didn't appreciate how good. I mean, that

1119
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: sounds real arrogant, but like I didn't appreciate how good

1120
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: I was when I was in Detroit because we weren't winning.

1121
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: And now I go back at it and I look

1122
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: at it and even watching more taps, I would watch

1123
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: games to kind of conjure up you know, memories and

1124
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: things whatever, and I'm like, damn, I was actually all right,

1125
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: like I was, you know, I'm looking at it, you know,

1126
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 1: more than I. You know, I'm not saying I didn't

1127
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: see that or I didn't look at it that way

1128
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: at the time because I'm chasing Isaiah. You know, Isaiah

1129
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: was the gold standard. I'm chasing. I looked at Isaiah's

1130
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: banner before every game like that to me was what

1131
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: I was pursuing. And anything less was was you know,

1132
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: it was was was was you know, a failure and

1133
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: so and so anyway to go back with you know,

1134
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: look at it through a different lens, with with you know,

1135
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: greater appreciation. Um, you know, it was. It was surprising.

1136
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: I didn't expect it, but it was almost one of

1137
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: those things was like whoa, Like yeah, and in a

1138
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: way I kind of needed that, like I needed to

1139
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: see that and realize that because you know, I looked

1140
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: at you know, those years as you know, as almost

1141
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: a failure. It's a total failure. So I don't know

1142
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: if I'm making sense, But you're making complete sense. Everything

1143
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: you're saying. It's to me, the me. Mirror this back

1144
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: for a second, because this is a message no matter

1145
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: when we're in the midst of whatever it is we're

1146
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 1: trying to achieve. We're doing such great things, but we're

1147
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: such a society of more, more, more and more, and

1148
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: we don't know how to appreciate the moment as opposed

1149
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: to thinking about more and more and more. And I

1150
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: think that goes across every field, whether you're an NBA player,

1151
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: you're a journalist, you're a you know, your corporate work,

1152
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: whatever it is, you're a producer, whatever it may be.

1153
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: Um and then you look back on it because on

1154
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: the outside looking in, like I I, I would be

1155
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: hard pressed to tell you that you didn't help me

1156
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: love college basketball. It would be a lie. When I

1157
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: when I when I think about why I fell in

1158
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: love with college basketball even before I got to college,

1159
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: it was because of players like you and Christian Lightner

1160
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: and and you can go fab five, like you can

1161
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: go down a list right of like why I fell

1162
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: in love with this amateur you know, an air quotes game,

1163
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: and and it was because of you, Like you were

1164
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: You're a part of what I call Americana, right, that's

1165
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: pop culture. If we did a book on what the

1166
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: n c A A was and what it is today

1167
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: or how glorious and period seemed back then before we

1168
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 1: all knew what it was, you would be in that book.

1169
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: And so my and so my question for you now,

1170
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: like you look at the college game. Coach K just retired.

1171
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: I know that you have an affinity for him. I'm

1172
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: watching him, Roy Williams, J Wright, all of these O

1173
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: g s, these coaches right for folks who are listening,

1174
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: Jay right, he was head coach at Villanova, Roy Williams,

1175
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: U n c A Coach K Duke. You're watching these

1176
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: coaches retire within a matter of a year or two

1177
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: of one another. But whatever, it's because the game has changed,

1178
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: all pun intended, because that's the name of your book.

1179
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: So you look at the game now with n I

1180
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: L Right, what do you think about the college and

1181
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: these skills are getting crazy? And I'm not mad, but

1182
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, what does that mean? These kids have agents

1183
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: now before they even get to play their very first game.

1184
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? Well, yeah, I mean

1185
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: the state of intercollegiate athletics and and and really basketball.

1186
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: I think in college football in general, it's changing, and

1187
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,439
Speaker 1: it's changing so quickly and rapidly that it's it's kind

1188
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: of hard two to process. I think the game has

1189
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: really changed and evolved even prior to N I L.

1190
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: You talked about that sort of golden era in the

1191
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: nineties early nineties, and you know UNLV, Vegas, UH, all

1192
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: these great teams, UM. You know, guys were there for

1193
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: more than one year. And so whether you loved or

1194
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: hated Duke, or loved or hated Carolina, or loved or

1195
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: hated the Fab five, you watched him over multiple years

1196
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: and you saw, you know, you saw that story unfold.

1197
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: And now in an era where you know these great

1198
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 1: guys and you know, leaving early one and done, you

1199
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: just don't have the same emotional attachment or connection with

1200
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: with with these teams because these players aren't there long enough.

1201
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: And now you throw in N I L. You're throwing

1202
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 1: the transfer portal. Um. You know I'm hearing that things.

1203
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: You know, in California, they may try to enact a

1204
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: law with you know, making it legal for pay for

1205
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: play at at California universities, UM, which would even change

1206
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: it even more so. And so it's it's it's kind

1207
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: of going bonkers. It's like the wild wild West right now.

1208
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: And I think everybody is trying to figure out how

1209
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: to play in that sandbox. But you're seeing, you know,

1210
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 1: Roy Williams, Coach K. J. Wright, in the span of

1211
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: one year, all these legends, these icons who have really

1212
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: contributed to the game UM and have been hugely successful.

1213
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:53,919
Speaker 1: I think part of it was age. I think coach

1214
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: k is time. But you know, Jay Wright was still young.

1215
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: Jay Wright still had a lot of runway. Well he

1216
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: well isn't here. He's sixty. Is that young? Yeah? I

1217
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: mean he you know, he's got another at least five years,

1218
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 1: you know. And and and so it's it's scary, you know,

1219
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: and and and I don't know what the future looks like.

1220
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what five years from now it looks like, UM.

1221
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: But I think I think you potentially you see it,

1222
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, U C L A U S C. I

1223
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,439
Speaker 1: know you're in California going into the Big Ten. Now,

1224
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: you know some of that tradition that UM has been

1225
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: a part of college sports. With the realignment and such,

1226
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: it's changing, and you know, it's it's you know, I'm

1227
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: all for players having an opportunity to to profit. Um,

1228
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: you know. And I remember, I remember I wanted to

1229
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 1: buy my jersey from the Duke Bookstore and I wanted

1230
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: to give it to my dad for five I don't know,

1231
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: give it to him for Christmas or whatever. And I

1232
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: went into the bookstore and it was like a hundred

1233
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: and twenty dollars for me to buy my jersey. And

1234
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't go to the Athletic department to

1235
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: have them give me a jersey because that's a violation.

1236
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: And so I wasn't thinking like, Okay, I want a

1237
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: piece of the money that they're making off my I

1238
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 1: just wanted to be able to get my own jersey

1239
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: for free, Like that was what I was thinking. In

1240
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 1: And um wait a second, in nine year jersey was

1241
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: a hundred and how much dollars to go by for

1242
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 1: your dad was a hundred and something dollars And I

1243
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: remember I bought it from my dad and and it

1244
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: just it dawned on me like wow, like like I

1245
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: wasn't even thinking like man, like they're making this. I

1246
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: was just like I gotta pay for my own jersey,

1247
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: Like I didn't that. That didn't sit right with me.

1248
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: And now you fast forward to some of these n

1249
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: I L deals where guys are making you know, they're

1250
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: making more money than the professionals make in some cases.

1251
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: And so it's but it's an interesting dynamic. And I'm

1252
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: not saying it's it's wrong. I'm just saying it's an

1253
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 1: interesting dynamic, and I think people don't know how to

1254
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: take it and really how to navigate it. And so

1255
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:06,959
Speaker 1: it's changing the landscape. It's changing as a coach, how

1256
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: you recruit, how you prepare, how you you know, when

1257
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: I came up, um, you know, coach k signed Christian

1258
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 1: Latner one year, then he signed Bobby Hurley the next year,

1259
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: then he signed me, and he felt like he had

1260
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: his big his point guard and then his wing player,

1261
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,799
Speaker 1: and he you know, he filled in around that, and

1262
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: you know it gave us a chance to be successful. Well, obviously,

1263
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, one and done. You can't prepare that way,

1264
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: at least he hasn't in the last decade. Um, So

1265
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: you have to adapt and adjust with the times, which

1266
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: he did a great job of. But I think moving

1267
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: forward in football and basketball and really at all sports,

1268
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, these collectives. You know, our alumni, are they

1269
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 1: going to get involved and contribute? Are you gonna allocate

1270
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: money for athletes? Like it's it's it requires you to

1271
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: adapt and adjust if you want to be successful and

1272
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: uh and so it's a little bit scattered, a little

1273
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: bit of the wild wild West. But I do think

1274
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: in time, I'm hopeful that it will kind of you know,

1275
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: it will get to a point where everyone can operate

1276
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: in this new model that's been created. I think it's

1277
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: very I think what you said was probably the most

1278
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,679
Speaker 1: simple but most articular thing. It's hard to respond because

1279
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: you don't know what it is, but you're correct in

1280
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 1: terms of is getting more complicated. And that's why I

1281
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 1: think I'm seeing like that's why I think Jay right left,

1282
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: I'm a guest. I just feel like he was like,

1283
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to deal with that. This this is

1284
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: not the game that I know. And if I have

1285
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 1: to start being um someone who is an expert on

1286
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: N I l deals that part. I can't give my

1287
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: brain to right. I just want to focus on xs

1288
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: and o's and get a chip. That part gets so

1289
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 1: complicated because it's so new and there are no strict

1290
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: rules yet there's the loopholes, and kids can do this,

1291
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: and kids could do that, and you talk about you sail.

1292
01:09:57,479 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: I want to say you sail and usc right. They

1293
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: go to the the big and they want more money. But

1294
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: when I hear you tell me and I've seen ninety

1295
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 1: two year jersey costs a hundred and twenty dollars and

1296
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: you just wanted it for free, I get infuriated. I

1297
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 1: get so angry and shout out to my man Ed O'Bannon,

1298
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 1: who I know could have used that money and still

1299
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 1: could to this day use that money, right like as

1300
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 1: he as he put him hisself and you know, quote

1301
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 1: unquote on the line to have have this happen as

1302
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:30,839
Speaker 1: it is. I think it's really interesting how it will

1303
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: affect the player themselves. I think you're right. I'm not

1304
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: invested in teams anymore. I don't know these kids names

1305
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 1: like you do, because you probably cover the tournaments, but

1306
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 1: you have to learn them before. I remember watching you

1307
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 1: know Chuck and and and can you talk about these

1308
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 1: kids and it's a new one, a new star every year.

1309
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 1: You don't know who are you? Okay? Who is this?

1310
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 1: You know? How okay? Y'all? Behind the scenes, you get

1311
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: research packets and you're like, so what's his name? And

1312
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 1: what do you because it's so it just the turnovers,

1313
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: like you don't know who they it's so fast, the

1314
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: one and done. Um. And that's what I will miss, right,

1315
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: I will say I will miss that because I am

1316
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: not invested like I used to be. Like I could

1317
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 1: watch you. I literally March Madness was my thing, Like

1318
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: that was where I wanted to be, watching you in

1319
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: two chips, great, watching U c l A. Even when

1320
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: I was there, like this is I was invested. And

1321
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,759
Speaker 1: now I find like all things, one thing is constant,

1322
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: all things change. So you look at the league NBA.

1323
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: All these players want to do is get to the league.

1324
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: Get the league, get to the league. And Lebron has

1325
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 1: changed the game you mentioned him? Has he changed the

1326
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: game for the better? Amon Schumpert is quoted as saying,

1327
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 1: Lebron set up for everybody when he went to Miami.

1328
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: So you what do you think about this new NBA?

1329
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: And we're gonna give to the old man Lebron? Has

1330
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: he has? He has he made it for the better

1331
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: or for the worst. Well, you know, look, I also

1332
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: I wear many hats and and then one of them

1333
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: is you know, co owner vice chairman of the Atlanta

1334
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: Hall particular exactly. Yes, I don't get me in trouble. No, no, no,

1335
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: but I mean I I think look, I mean, as

1336
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: you said all things, you said it better than I'm

1337
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 1: going to say it. But you know, all things change,

1338
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 1: and things grow and evolve, and as it relates to

1339
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: the n c A, it's going through growth and and

1340
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 1: change and sometimes that can be painful, but also sometimes

1341
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:40,560
Speaker 1: that's necessary. And Lebron, you know, look, Lebron, his accomplishments

1342
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: on the court speak for themselves. I think he came

1343
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: around in this sort of digital social media age, which um,

1344
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: I think has has been good and bad in some respects.

1345
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: Good in the sense that it only amplifies and um

1346
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, creates this connection and relationship ship with fans,

1347
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,759
Speaker 1: gives him a voice he doesn't need to go through,

1348
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, a journalist to speak to an audience or

1349
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: to the world. UM. I also think there's some some

1350
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 1: tough parts where you hear all the noise and you

1351
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: hear the backlash, you hear the hate, or you see

1352
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: the hate, or you read the hate. Um. You know,

1353
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: when I play, you know, really it was only you

1354
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: know the print media and and you know sports talk radio,

1355
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:33,040
Speaker 1: and you know there was a gauntlet of editors that

1356
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 1: you know, had to to to you know, to read

1357
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,600
Speaker 1: through things before they were printed. And yeah, I didn't

1358
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: necessarily listen to talk radio or sports talk radio in

1359
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: the nineties. Now you know, someone's gonna say Lebron, you know,

1360
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: and say something bad about his mom or or his

1361
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: his wife or his kids. And these players today see

1362
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: that and and so that that's hard and we didn't

1363
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 1: have to endure that. But you know, I do think

1364
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,040
Speaker 1: he stood on the shoulders of Michael Jordan's and he

1365
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 1: took it to another level in terms of ownership, in

1366
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 1: terms of control, um, you know, in terms of really

1367
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: leveraging this platform you have in the n b A.

1368
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 1: The NBA is a global media and public relations firm.

1369
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 1: That's what they do well. They promote in market players

1370
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,839
Speaker 1: all over the world. I remember when I did inside

1371
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 1: stuff and uh with with Kristen Ludlow. We did it

1372
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 1: for a few years and you know, we would we

1373
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: would take the first of all, she's a pro. I

1374
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 1: was learning at the time, but you know it was

1375
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: a half hour well I appreciate it. It was a

1376
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:41,680
Speaker 1: half hour show. It would take us like an hour

1377
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: and a half to take like literally and mostly yeah, okay,

1378
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 1: we got to then. But they would do an international

1379
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,920
Speaker 1: ending to the show every week and and we would

1380
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:56,680
Speaker 1: always kind of roll our eyes, like, oh, why do

1381
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 1: we have to do this and blah blah blah. It

1382
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: was like a generic ending. And then I went to

1383
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 1: South Africa with my wife and we were there in

1384
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 1: like two thousand and sixteen, and it was October, so

1385
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 1: before the basketball season, and they're playing inside stuff in

1386
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: the hotel room and like I'm going around, you know, Johannesburg,

1387
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: and people are calling me Mr Inside Stuff and so

1388
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 1: like to me, it's just like and so when we

1389
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: came back, we're like, hey, we got to get these

1390
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: international goodbyes, right, and I just let me get my

1391
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: makeup done. But like it just speaks to how global

1392
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: the game is and and and Lebron um. So you know,

1393
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,600
Speaker 1: I think the game is in a good place. I

1394
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: think Lebron is sort of a one of a kind

1395
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 1: athlete in a lot of ways. I don't know if

1396
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:45,440
Speaker 1: we have another kind of Lebron who who just understands

1397
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 1: his power and his value. And I think strategically made

1398
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 1: moves that um really elevated his profile, uh in his

1399
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: bottom line along the way. So I don't think it's

1400
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: a let me look, I tried to leave and go

1401
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,679
Speaker 1: to Orlando, and Tim Duncan was gonna go, and Tracy

1402
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 1: McGrady and you know obviously Duncan didn't go, and and

1403
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 1: I you know, I was hurt. But um, so leaving

1404
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: and going to Miami, UM, he has that right. You know,

1405
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: he gets criticized, I think for it, but he has

1406
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 1: that right to do that as every player. And look,

1407
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: when my dad played, just understand it. So my dad

1408
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:28,680
Speaker 1: played for the Cowboys and he left to go to

1409
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 1: the World Football League and which was a new, upstart

1410
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: league and seventy five, I think around he got sued

1411
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: by the Cowboys and and he ended up countersuing and

1412
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: when and he won. But that was a period where

1413
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 1: athletes didn't have the right. They didn't have free agency.

1414
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 1: You weren't allowed to go elsewhere. When your contract expired.

1415
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: That team to owned your rights, they could trade you,

1416
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: but you didn't have that opportunity. So you know, yeah,

1417
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 1: I mean we're standing on the shoulders of giants who

1418
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 1: paid the way and and made those sacrifices, so he

1419
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 1: had every right to go to mine. He may not

1420
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 1: like how he went about it, but you know, he

1421
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: had every right to do that. And he had every

1422
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: right to go back to Cleveland and go to l A.

1423
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,720
Speaker 1: And but you know, he's been an incredible player and

1424
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:23,639
Speaker 1: incredible ambassador. He's delivered on the expectations, maybe even them,

1425
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: which is very rare, uh, particularly with someone who came

1426
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: in with as much fanfare as he did. And and

1427
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,640
Speaker 1: he's gonna be missed when he's gone, when he retires

1428
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 1: and walks away. Um, the NBA television rights, everything is

1429
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 1: gonna take a hit. You're gonna see dips. Say what

1430
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 1: you want. He's the most love to be hated and

1431
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: the most hated to be loved. But I'm telling you,

1432
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: at this moment, he and I'm not saying that just

1433
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:50,760
Speaker 1: because he plays for Lakers, but I will tell you

1434
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 1: I'm the typical fan. I couldn't stand him to he

1435
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: became a Laker. Was like, yes, I think you guys

1436
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: are too hard on Lebron. I think everyone too hard

1437
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: on Lebron. Just last week you hated him. I said,

1438
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 1: that's not the point. That's at the point but you

1439
01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 1: are correct. He has taught. What he has taught every

1440
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: player is that they have leverage and that they can

1441
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 1: if if in fact, they can produce her in the court,

1442
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:11,880
Speaker 1: and they are a grand hell if you will. He

1443
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: has leverage, and he was fearless. He was fearless. He

1444
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: moved fearlessly. He has moved fearlessly in this league and

1445
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 1: take and taking all the hits. And while I think

1446
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: time will tell his story in the way in which

1447
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,760
Speaker 1: you all you and I see him, um, I I

1448
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: often wonder how much has that affected his psyche, because

1449
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure it has his family as well. He acts

1450
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: like it's not a big deal, but you got you

1451
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: got it, But like you said, he can hear it,

1452
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 1: he can see it, he could read it. Now, they're

1453
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 1: going after your kids. They're not just going after you,

1454
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 1: They're going after your wife. They're going after your kids.

1455
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, hands off, Like to me, there's just you

1456
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 1: draw the line some places you don't talk about people's families,

1457
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, that's that's no. I agree.

1458
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: But I think what happens is is that you know

1459
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this applies to Lebron, but

1460
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:01,559
Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of guys they hear

1461
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 1: the noise, they see the noise, and they put everybody

1462
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 1: in the same bucket, and you know, and so and

1463
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:15,759
Speaker 1: you become cynical and and you know, like there's credible

1464
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 1: journalists out there who I think have integrity, uh and

1465
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 1: I think want to get to a deeper meeting and

1466
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 1: really want to be objective. But I think there's a

1467
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 1: lack of trust with some of the athletes today, with

1468
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 1: some members of the media. And I think some of

1469
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: it stems from just the noise and and all that,

1470
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 1: and so you you become defensive. You're not as like

1471
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: there was a relationship. Like I give you an example,

1472
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: so I cover I do games for T and T,

1473
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: and back in the day when you know when when

1474
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 1: when they would come and broadcast a game, you sit

1475
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 1: down for an interview and they would play that interview

1476
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 1: clip during the game. That doesn't happen anymore. And and

1477
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:58,280
Speaker 1: it's almost like one in part because whatever needs to

1478
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 1: be said, they can just say it, you know, on

1479
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:04,640
Speaker 1: their own platforms. They don't need to talk with But

1480
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 1: it's just that it's an interesting dynamic and I think

1481
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of noise and a lot of criticism. Uh.

1482
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's sensationalized a bit, and I

1483
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 1: think it plays on the middle psyche of athletes and

1484
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: no question, and that's something I'm not a fan of. MH,

1485
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'm in agreement. I I but you

1486
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 1: know I'm also guilty. But I'm in agreement. I mean,

1487
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm also guilty of talking about the side of my

1488
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: neck every now and again. So I try. I try.

1489
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 1: I learned from my mistakes. I gotta be honest, like

1490
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 1: because I've never played the game, so I can't I

1491
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 1: can't say certain things. There are certain things I can't say.

1492
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 1: I said. I remember, and I don't know if you

1493
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: remember when I was on Sports Center, I said, I

1494
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 1: just wouldn't start my team with Kevin Durant. He doesn't

1495
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:51,800
Speaker 1: have enough heart. And this is when he was with Oklahoma.

1496
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: And it was like it was think pieces and she

1497
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:56,600
Speaker 1: crazy and that's why women shouldn't be on TV and

1498
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:58,719
Speaker 1: sent her back to the kitchen. I mean, I got roasted.

1499
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,720
Speaker 1: There was at one point which my producer thought, which

1500
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we decided not to. He was like, oh,

1501
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: I think maybe you should apologize and the bosses were like, no,

1502
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:08,759
Speaker 1: we pair to have an opinion. If that's her opinion,

1503
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,960
Speaker 1: she's doing a top five lists and she she's not

1504
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: gonna Katy, that's that's just her choice. Um. But it

1505
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: was really heavy. But it got even worse. That was

1506
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:18,840
Speaker 1: the year that they were up three one in the

1507
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: conference finals against Golden State, and you know what happened

1508
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:25,360
Speaker 1: after that, right, they lost, and then he went to

1509
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 1: Golden State, and then there was all this conversation about, well,

1510
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 1: maybe she wasn't wrong, right, and but at the same

1511
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:36,759
Speaker 1: time it was more of a personal attack as opposed

1512
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,320
Speaker 1: to statistically or professionally or on the court. Why I

1513
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't choose him? Right? That taught me that if I

1514
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: do have a criticism, I have to keep it on

1515
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:48,600
Speaker 1: the court. It ain't about you, not this, not this

1516
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 1: schoon if you will, like talk about what it looks like.

1517
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: So so, having said that, you're right, I don't blame

1518
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 1: them for being the new media. The new media now,

1519
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: Grant ain't and me, well kind of because I because

1520
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 1: I say what I wanted my podcast. But the new

1521
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 1: media is the I Am Athlete podcasts and the pivots

1522
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 1: of the world and the uninterrupted of the world. These

1523
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: are they're like, okay, we're gonna you know, and they

1524
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: and they're missing some very tangible parts. Very few athletes.

1525
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,800
Speaker 1: You're one of the few, I think, and I'm gonna

1526
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 1: tell you this that could play the game and then

1527
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 1: be an impartial journalist. That's a hard thing to learn. Like,

1528
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 1: it really is a difficult spot to put you in

1529
01:22:28,479 --> 01:22:30,719
Speaker 1: as a player, as a former player, to talk about

1530
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 1: other players, good or bad. Right, It's just a tough spot.

1531
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: And now we're watching these guys take ownership, as you

1532
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,640
Speaker 1: said back and it is the game is changing, and

1533
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: I and for the better in my opinion. Well so, well,

1534
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:46,800
Speaker 1: first of all, to to your point where you said,

1535
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you being forthcoming and sharing your experience

1536
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 1: and what you said about Duran And you know, look

1537
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 1: there we hit jobs back in the day. I mean

1538
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 1: Peter Vessey, you know, he went at everybody and it

1539
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 1: was per soonal. I think the difference is is technology now,

1540
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:07,719
Speaker 1: and particularly social media, So if you say something on air,

1541
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 1: it's gonna be amplified and it's gonna be all over

1542
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 1: the place, and then people are gonna chime in and

1543
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 1: and in either side with you, uh, and just give

1544
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,760
Speaker 1: it more oxygen. And so to me, you know, I

1545
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:22,640
Speaker 1: look at you know, Charles and those guys, I mean,

1546
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 1: Charles and those guys for twenty plus years have been

1547
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, taking shots at people and being funny and

1548
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:31,160
Speaker 1: humorous and so on and so forth. Um, but then

1549
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 1: we're like like the jabal McGee situation. You know that

1550
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 1: became something because it was bad and it was unfortunate,

1551
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 1: but I think part of it was there's more oxygen

1552
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: around it. And so now you hear it, you see it,

1553
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: you read it, you see the tweets, and so that's

1554
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,599
Speaker 1: what's changed the game. I think in some respects it's

1555
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: just all the noise you know that surrounds and uh

1556
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 1: and all the opinions that um, you know that at

1557
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:02,639
Speaker 1: times are are hard to run from Grand Hill. You've

1558
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: given me more than enough time. UM. I'm going to

1559
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:08,720
Speaker 1: I'm ask your mouth for your information because I do

1560
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: want to check on you family wise, make sure everything

1561
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 1: is all good. UM. But I thank you for joining us.

1562
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 1: Everybody listening, go on, get this book. If you want

1563
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:19,679
Speaker 1: this deep intellectual thought from this this authentic human being.

1564
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 1: It's game and can get it anywhere, right. I can

1565
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,240
Speaker 1: go on Amazon, I can do it on my You

1566
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: did an audio book, No, right, I love audio book

1567
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 1: because you know, we're just in a car and we

1568
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:31,599
Speaker 1: gotta drive and do our thing real quick. I like it.

1569
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 1: Um and anything else you're working on you want to

1570
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: let people know about. Yeah, no, I mean no, not

1571
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 1: right now. I'm it's it's wherever books are sold. Like

1572
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 1: you said, it's an audio version, and uh yeah, stay

1573
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 1: tuned there there. There may be an opportunity to come

1574
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 1: back on Naked again here in the near future. Yeah,

1575
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 1: and tell us some good, something juicy. Okay, all right,

1576
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 1: all right, give all the love to the family, your

1577
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: mom included, your wife, your dad. They did a good job.

1578
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 1: They did a good job. It's your kiddo. I'm proud

1579
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 1: of you. I'm I'm so glad I had. This is

1580
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: honestly the first time on my podcast that I had

1581
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 1: the opportunity to sit and talk with Grant, and I

1582
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: thought it was special. He is just a great guy.

1583
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 1: And I keep saying that because it's so rare and

1584
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 1: the story of how he met his wife. I would

1585
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,599
Speaker 1: like Anita Baker to hook me up. If you listen

1586
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 1: to any Sweet Love, don't you and go, oh wait,

1587
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: it will always be this way a A. Okay, I'm

1588
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 1: not a singer, but you get it. Um. And then

1589
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 1: the fact that I watched him be the father, the husband,

1590
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 1: the friend that he is said to be to everyone

1591
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 1: really made this podcast special for me. So grant I

1592
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on. I also thank you guys

1593
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 1: for letting me talk about Deshaun Watson. There's so much

1594
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 1: more to that story, and I'm still unpacking how I

1595
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 1: feel and processing my thoughts because there are a lot

1596
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,040
Speaker 1: of lives affective and so much trauma. We cover this

1597
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 1: stuff like it doesn't matter, but there are real individuals

1598
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 1: involved in this case that are suffering. And I'm not

1599
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: even talking about just the women. What about Deshaun's family members?

1600
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 1: Is his his mother, his father, his family, his friends,

1601
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 1: those who care about him, who see him as one

1602
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 1: way and feel as if he's being attacked and and

1603
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,800
Speaker 1: treated poorly. Coming to the realization that the person you

1604
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:24,760
Speaker 1: know and have known for so long isn't who you

1605
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 1: think they are is really traumatic. If in fact, that

1606
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 1: has happened for his family and friends, life is not easy.

1607
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: That's why it's important for us to be good to

1608
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 1: each other. I am imploring every single day kindness and

1609
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,680
Speaker 1: trying to be more and more kind. The reputation that

1610
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,639
Speaker 1: I have isn't necessarily kind. It's straight up into the point.

1611
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 1: Although there's nothing wrong with being straight up into the point.

1612
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that is the word I'm trying

1613
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 1: to get out. But kindness prevails, just like talent. Trump's

1614
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 1: all thank you for listening to Naked. I'll see y'all

1615
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 1: next week.