1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you. 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work. 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC. 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: of dollars doing it. To help support our mission of 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class more support the show. 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We have an amazing show for everybody today 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: and we've got Marshall Kasloff in the house for Crystal Ball. Marshall, 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: thank you so much. For subbing in coming down to DC, 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: your old city. We appreciate it, man, Thanks for having me, dude. Absolutely. 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: So those of you guys don't know know Marshal costs Off. 23 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: He's my co host over at the Realignment podcast. Just 24 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: like KKF took over while I was out, Marshall's helping me. 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: He's gonna sub in here. We are going to bring 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: you guys a great breakdown of the news for both 27 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: today and then next Tuesday. We're pro labor show after all, 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: and so to make sure that our crew and everybody 29 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: can have a little bit of time off, we are 30 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: not having a show there on Labor Day. Now, we 31 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: don't have a bottom graphic there on the screen. You 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: might wonder why. It's because we have a little bit 33 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: of breaking news that we'll address here at the top, 34 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: which is the Texas abortion law and just really what 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: it means, because I know that a lot of you 36 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: are quite interested. But we have a lot of others, 37 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: fun stuff that we're going to cover here in the show. 38 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: The newsome recall Latino turnout. Of course, that's something that's 39 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: vitally important. We've got this new breakdown. Marshall's got a 40 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: lot to say, in terms of the gaming laws in China, 41 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: they're cracking down on that and celebrities. Donald Trump maybe 42 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: returning to social media, but he's got a couple of 43 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: stipulations whenever it comes to that. Vivek Ramaswami is our 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: guest in the house. He just wrote a book named Woke, Inc. 45 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: Which is really interesting. We actually interviewed him over at 46 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: the Realignment. Wanted to make sure that those of you 47 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: could get a more of a breaking points type interview 48 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: here on the show, so we can bring that to 49 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 1: as wide of an audience as possible. But we'll start here, 50 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: Marshall with this Texas abortion law. So what happened is 51 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: is that very late last night there was the decision 52 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: out of the Supreme Court which is five to four. Now, 53 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: this is kind of interesting because it happened on something 54 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: called the shadow docket, so it's not like they were 55 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: ruling necessarily on what was happening here. What they were 56 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: saying is that they're not going to block this Texas 57 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: abortion law. Now, the abortion law, what it says is 58 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: that you can't have an abortion after six weeks, went 59 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: into a fact on Wednesday, and it was drafted by 60 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: Texas specifically with the goal of trying to get the 61 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: federal court to challenge it and have some sort of decision. 62 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: Now it's a little bit strange because it's not like 63 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: it was an outright decision being like, yeah, the law 64 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: is okay. But effectively, by allowing the law to go 65 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: into place, they have really changed the landscape in America 66 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: so very quickly. I think it will mean Marshall that 67 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: you're going to see a swath of states across the 68 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: American South pass similar laws. But at the same time, 69 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: they may actually not get what they want because what 70 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: you're going to start to see here is people going 71 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: to keep pushing the envelope like they're not going to 72 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: necessarily stop it. Six weeks, Alabama or whatever, We'll do 73 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: a different one with the goal of going up to 74 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: the court, and that really is where the court watchers 75 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: are all going to come in here. But regardless, Look, 76 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: I'd rather gouge my eyes out than talk about abortion 77 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: for the next hour or whatever. But look, the truth 78 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: is is that this is a highly consequential decision and 79 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: it is probably going to drive politics for the next 80 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: couple of weeks, if not months. I have no idea. Yeah, 81 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: and here's what the story means. Eighty five to ninety 82 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: percent of abortions happened after that six week period. So 83 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: you're going to see this real, frank decline in people's 84 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: access to abortion in states like Texas. And the part 85 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: that's really interesting for me is Texas is one of 86 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: those stateses during the pandemic, had all these blue state 87 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: people from California moved to it. Also, look at Georgia 88 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: in the South, a lot of people moving to Atlanta, 89 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: those competitive suburbs. I'm really curious how these blue state 90 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: migrants are going to actually impact the politics of this 91 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: because once again Texas is changing, Georgia is changing. That's 92 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: the story of the twenty twenty election. That's a great point. 93 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't even think about that, but you know, 94 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: recently we were down in Austin whenever Kristall and I 95 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: were doing Joe Rogan, and I will tell you being 96 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: in Austin it's a whole you know, different Obviously he's 97 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: cliche at this point to say it, but it's a 98 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: whole different city. I was in a coffee shop I 99 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: think I told you the story at the time, and 100 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: there were like three people all with newborns, and they 101 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: were all talking and they're like, Oh, where did you 102 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: move from? They're like, Oh, I'm from New York. They're like, 103 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: where'd you move from? Like, we're from California. Where'd you 104 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: move from? Oh, we're from baltim More. So, it's like, obviously, 105 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's like mostly lawyers, like people coming down 106 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: blue state kind of escapees. But you're very right, which 107 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: is that, you know, whenever the Georgia voting law happened, 108 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: like you definitely saw kind of that suburban kind of 109 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: pushback against that, this is the same thing. I don't 110 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: know how it will impact the politics of Texas because 111 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: this is a very very important demographic. Obviously, this is 112 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: the new tax base of Austin and of Houston and Dallas. 113 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: And so whether you know how exactly it's going to 114 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: intertwine with the you know, deep red evangelical base of 115 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: the state itself, that actually is an open question. And 116 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: it's like you said, it really could kind of impact 117 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: the state's politics domestically in terms of backlash against Governor 118 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: Abbott and more. I truly have no idea. I just 119 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: don't know how it's going to play out. Yeah, I 120 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: think there're two big things. Yeah, we were pushing this 121 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: poll run, but Texas Hispanics aren't exactly the most pro 122 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: choice part Yeah, Democratic parties. So even as the state changes, 123 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: even if we see all this talk about a purple Texas, 124 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: we're going to see this merge and all these different tensions. Right. 125 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: The whole tension of the Democratic Party right now is, 126 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: you know, Joe Biden really dominating with working class blacks 127 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: and Hispanics. But at the same time, you have this 128 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: upper middle class base of the party that you're talkingo 129 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: it's migrating. Yeah. I saw MSNBC and all those people 130 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: really freaking out saying it's an end to Row versus Wade. Look, 131 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: I don't you know, like really have a dog in 132 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: the fight or whatever, But like, whenever I see it, 133 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: it's it's I think both people can see what they 134 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: want to see. So the most pro life people are 135 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: going to say, well, you know, the court they're not 136 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: taking this and like outright abolishing ro versus Wad. And 137 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: then of course the most pro choice people are going 138 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: to say, this is effectively the end of Row versus Wad. 139 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: Effectively functionally, you're going to hear those words a lot, 140 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: Like we said, and as you pointed out, eighty five 141 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: to ninety percent do happen. So what does it mean? 142 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: Is it outright outlawed? No? Is it, you know, going 143 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: to dramatically decrease the number of abortions in Texas? Yes? 144 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: Will it set a new precedent across the South, probably, 145 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: But wanted to make sure that we brought everybody that 146 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: story with the latest details. I know this is the 147 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: only news program that some of you watch, which I 148 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: very much appreciate. So let's get to the rest of 149 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: the show. This is something God, I love that bottom 150 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: graphic stuns me every time. Let's start with the Biden call. 151 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: So this is something I know a lot of you 152 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: flagged for us. There's a lot of interest in what 153 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: exactly is going on here. Let's go ahead and put 154 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: the tear sheet up there on the screen. This broke 155 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: from Reuter's yesterday. There's a lot of different questions. Essentially, 156 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: what happened is that the details of a private phone 157 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: call of President Biden and former President Ashrofghani of Afghanistan 158 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: leaked to Reuters. Now they don't have a full transcript 159 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: of the call necessarily, but in the call According to Reuters, 160 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: what they have seen here is that the men spoke 161 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: and this was their very last phone call fourteen minutes 162 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: on July twenty third. Now what's important there is that 163 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: July twenty third is kind of in the midst of 164 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: that Taliban offensive. We don't yet know that they're going 165 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: to take off crover the entire country. We don't yet 166 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: know Kundu sorryhr like all that a lot of the 167 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: full blown like early August people being like, oh my god, 168 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: they're about to take the city of Kabble. That's not 169 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: really there yet. And so what we see here within 170 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: the phone call is that Biden is very much pressuring 171 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: former President Ashtrof Ghani. And I'm reading here directly from 172 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: the Reuter story, says Biden offered aid if Ghani could 173 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: publicly project that he had a plan to control the 174 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: spiraling situation in Afghanistan. Quote, we will continue to provide 175 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: close air support if we know what the plan is, 176 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: Biden said. Now this is again is important because he's 177 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: talking there about the military aid, specifically from the US. 178 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: Some of the critics of the entire withdrawal have been 179 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: like wide in the US, continue close air support there 180 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: and more. But what really people are focusing in on 181 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: is that Biden was pointing to and saying that ostroft Ghani, 182 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: and he says, quote, if there is a need, whether 183 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: it is true or not, there is a need to 184 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: project a different picture, as in, he needs to publicly 185 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: project more confidence, whether it's true or not, that the 186 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: Afghan security forces have the strength that they have. Obviously, 187 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: we know what ended up happening. The entire force completely 188 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: collapsed and all of that. But you know, the White 189 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: House was actually asked about this yesterday. Here's what they 190 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: had to say. We'll dissect it on the other side, Johnnie, 191 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: I just want to put a pin in that report. 192 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: Was the President in any way pushing a false narrative 193 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: in that call with the Afghan president. I think it's 194 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: pretty clear. Again, I'm not going to go into details 195 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: of a private conversation, but what we saw over the 196 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: course of the last few months is a collapse in leadership, 197 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: and that was happening even before Ganni left the country. 198 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: What the President has conveyed repeatedly, privately and publicly is 199 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: you need to stand up and lead your country. And 200 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: that's something he said at a press conference in July 201 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: in public form as well. So Marshall, what do you 202 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: make of this whole thing? So we got this private 203 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: phone call that's been leaked out, there a lot of 204 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: Republicans now calling for the same type of impeachment in 205 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: career around the Ukraine call and more. Really, I think 206 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: it just goes to show how much of a complete 207 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: mess the entire thing was. And it actually I think 208 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: the meta story here is that having details of a 209 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: private phone call leaked like when they did under Trump 210 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: and Moore showing kind of a deep state like pushing back, 211 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: This is going to be a problem for Biden for 212 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: a really long time and Republicans are going to try 213 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: and turn this into a big political circus, and frankly, 214 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: I mean they have a lot of ammunition. That's part 215 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: of the problem, right. I think this is the perfect 216 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: example of why when we have a specific event happen, 217 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: we not just look at that specific event but actually 218 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: project what does this mean long term? Because I know 219 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: there are plenty of liberal left center people are going 220 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: to say, but listen, the Trump call of Ukraine was crazy. 221 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: There was crazy things that were literally said there. But 222 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: the deeper implication that we have to think about is 223 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: what does it mean to live in a country where 224 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: foreign policy, pretty much the one space for the president 225 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: has actual control over, is no longer private. It is 226 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: actually not good for anybody to live in a world 227 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: where the president has to say to myself, himself or herself. 228 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: I cannot say what I think to a foreign leader. 229 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: It will be leaked by a deep state, by a 230 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: foreign policy blob, by people with my own administration who 231 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: are not even political actors most likely who are mostly 232 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: going on the career end of this. They disagree with 233 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: me because once again I don't think anything Biden was 234 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: saying was actually incorrect, especially when you look at what 235 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: happened in Afghanistan. When he is saying you need to 236 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: project confidence, Let's be frank about what happened over the 237 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: next course of the month. Ostrov Gania did the exact 238 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: opposite of that. He fled the country with money. He 239 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: made it clear to any you know, just imagine you're 240 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: an Afghan soldier who is underpaid. You are probably not asked, 241 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: you're probably not paid, and your commanders, the government, everyone's fleeing. 242 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: If you don't see confidence from leadership, why would you 243 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: stand and fight? This is the part that has to 244 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: be said for people. No, I agree, it is funny 245 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: because that metapoint is very important and actually a lot 246 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: of people this is why I hate the current state 247 00:11:58,440 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: of politics. And I'm going to get to a lot 248 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: of this when my monologue, which is that Look, I 249 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: along with many people, I remember what was the first 250 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: call that was leaked by Trump? It was was it 251 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: the Filipino president or maybe it was the Mexican president. 252 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: I think it was the very first week that he 253 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: was in office. I think one of his either calls 254 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: with Duterte or with Enrique Panonanto was leaked the full 255 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: transcript of the phone call. And I was like, this 256 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: is outrageous. You can't have the transcript of a presidential 257 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: phone call just be just be completely released all of 258 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: the time. And it wasn't just that it would be like, oh, 259 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, he said this to Putin or whatever. And 260 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: remember they tried to subpoena the private translator notes at Helsinki, 261 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: same thing, you know, in terms of you can't have 262 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: that type of situation around the president. And look, I 263 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: mean I mostly supported what was going on. I'm saying 264 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: I mostly supported a lot of you know, some of 265 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: the Russia policy or whatever. But even when I don't 266 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: support it, even whenever you don't, you have to allow 267 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: some sort of presidential prerogative. And yet what's already happening. 268 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: We're already saying release the transcript. It's the same thing, 269 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: some sort of like, well, they did it to us, 270 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: so we should do it to them. Greg Kelly over 271 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: at Newsmax, guy never disappoints. Let's put this up there 272 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: on the screen. Release the transcript. Do it now, Joe Biden. 273 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: Trump released the transcript of his call with Ukraine leader. 274 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: You must release this and the audio. So they actually 275 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: up these stakes here now they want the audio too. 276 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: And really, what ended up happening, and actually this is 277 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: exactly what I'm talking about. What ended up happening on 278 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: the Trump administration. I remember covering this some of this 279 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: at the time, is that they would just make it 280 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: so that they didn't have transcriptive calls, They didn't have 281 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: that many people on the calls. They did everything they 282 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: could in order to leak proof his private phone calls, 283 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: and then we didn't have good records so that people 284 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: could refer back to. It's like there's a whole process 285 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: around this for a reason. And really what we've created. 286 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: What I'm starting to see here is and we'll get 287 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: to this whenever we're talking about Biden's approval rating, is 288 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: that Marin's aside, this is a problem, Like this is 289 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: just going to be a problem. It's going to be 290 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: on the news every day for a long time. People 291 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: aren't going to give it up. And you know, in 292 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: many ways, the deep state, the way that it acted 293 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: against Trump, is going to do. They see the amount 294 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: of news coverage and pick up that this is getting, 295 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: They're going to continue to do this. So whatever you know, 296 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: whatever you think, whichever side of the call or whatever, 297 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: you guys should know about what exactly is in it 298 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: because you're probably going to be hearing about it for 299 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: quite some time along with the general Afghan stuff. Look, 300 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: and here's the key thing. What pisses me off and 301 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: which a piss everyone off. Here is number one takeaway 302 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: from the Trump presidency should be that norms actually matter. 303 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: It's actually a super cool take to say, hey, actually 304 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't like leak things. Hey actually maybe like 305 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: the president can do X, Y and Z things. If 306 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: you were to argue to me, if it look leaking 307 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: a Trump transcript with Ukraine was a b break glass measure. 308 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: This is a Watergate level thing. If you're arguing that 309 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: in good faith, I think that's a real argument. I 310 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: think this transcript proves that that debate is over and 311 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: now it's very clear reality that transcripts talking to especially 312 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: after the fact, or just a political tool, and what 313 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: we should do as viewers as hosts. Once again, it's 314 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: important that we cover this point, that we say that 315 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: this is actually not okay, and people should not be 316 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: getting book deals out of this. People like Greg Kelly 317 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: should not be getting clicks out of this. This is 318 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: actually very, very bad, and I think people overall are 319 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: going to see that they're exhausted from this. Yeah, I mean, 320 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: I hope, so I don't think that's probably going to happen. 321 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: I can. I can already see the oh they did 322 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: it to Trump, and I'm like, yeah, I thought it 323 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: was really bad at the time. You can go back 324 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: and roll the tape on literally everything I said on 325 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: the impeachment front. This was a little interesting. So let's 326 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: go ahead and put this up there on the screen 327 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: for Mitch McConnell. He said, shooting down calls for impeachment 328 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: quote it is he is not going to be removed 329 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: from office. Now. This set off a bit of a firestorm, Marshal, 330 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: because everybody was like, see McConnell is defending Biden. A 331 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: lot of Republicans were upset. Obviously a lot of Democrats 332 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: weirdly were like kind of cheering it. But I saw 333 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: a pushback from McConnell's own press secretary, Doug Andris, and 334 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: he said, breaking, Nancy Pelosi controls the House, meaning he 335 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: what what they're trying to spin it as is McConnell's 336 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: not saying that he wouldn't impeach Biden. He's saying that 337 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi controls the House. So obviously impeachment's not going 338 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: to happen. But as we'll get to in this polling segment, 339 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: I would not bet on Nancy Pelosi control in that 340 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: house for you know, more than what sixteen seventeen months now, 341 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: and then I think she's out of there, and so 342 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: they're kind of keeping keeping the door open, and so 343 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, what do you think McConnell 344 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: will do, because is he actually what he actually move 345 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: forward something like this? Especially and I talked, I did 346 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: a whole monologue on this about you know, all the 347 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: lofty rhetoric or unimpeachment on January six both of which 348 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: are against by the way, both the impeachment of January 349 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: sixth and the impeachment on the Ukraine phone call rush 350 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: to Gate, whatever the hell you want to call it. 351 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. I mean, if the House, 352 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: let's say, Kevin McCarthy, by pressure from the Republican base, 353 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: does go ahead and send it, what is he going 354 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: to do? Because I do think McConnell will likely be 355 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: in charge of the Senate there within seventeen sixteen months too. 356 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: I mean, the crazy thing here is that everything that 357 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about is premised on Nancy Pelosi. Can Troy 358 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: in that, yes, because let's be frank here, impeaching Joe 359 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: Biden over this is insane. We can actually look through 360 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: most presidencies and see some type of truth deaths, some 361 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: type of foreign policy disasters, some type of mistake. It 362 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: is obviously not a sustainable, real thing to do, and 363 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: an advantage we have with Mitch McConnell to say what 364 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: we want about him. He does not have presidential ambition, 365 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: so he is not incentivized to actually say a batcrap 366 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: crazy thing, like, hey, we're gonna impeach Joe Biden over. 367 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: I mean, go back to two thousand and six, man, like, 368 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: right during the surge, remember turning on the TV and 369 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: seeing hundreds of American soldiers, Marines, airmen die every single week. 370 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: The notion that this is impeachment worthy in that context 371 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: is completely crazy today. I know, I've tried to hammer 372 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: that home and I was like, look, guys, I mean, 373 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: the Pandora's box you're opening there is just as bad 374 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: as the one that was opened under the Ukraine phone call, 375 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: which we know we're pointing out necessarily because when you 376 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: have principles, you have to apply them equally. Okay, let's 377 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: get to another really important story, one that I really 378 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: have my eye on. Honestly, I got to say I've 379 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: got my heart in this one, even though I probably shouldn't. 380 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: And so we will start with kind of where I'm 381 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: biased towards the type of story. But don't worry, you're 382 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: gonna get the full picture. Let's put this up there 383 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: from Politico. I love this headline, dem sweat Latino turnout 384 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: in the California. Recall the subhead there is there are 385 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: signs that Governor Gavin Newsom hasn't locked in a once 386 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: reliable and fast growing Democratic voting block. So this is 387 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: really interesting because one of the things that they have 388 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: been pushing for is they're saying, look, the vast majority 389 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: of the voters in the California recall, at least so 390 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: far two weeks to go with early voting or Democrats 391 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: and what you know, me and other people saying, so 392 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily going to save you. It's California. Actually, 393 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: it seems that Latinos in particular, as we spoke about 394 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: with Gustavo Ariano, which was a great interview, is that 395 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: a lot of them don't like Gavin Newsom. Gavin Newsom 396 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: has actually underwater with Latinos in the state of California 397 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: and particularly Marshall around lockdowns, which is that a lot 398 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: of these small business owners, people themselves who are employees 399 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: in some of these places are the ones themselves who 400 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: actually suffered. So it's kind of interesting that we could 401 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: see a we could see a big turnaround. The other 402 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: thing that I would say here is that I try 403 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: to look at the huge polling miss this before I 404 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: bring you a polishing Gavin Newsom way up. And I'm 405 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: saying just the only reason that I'm still have a 406 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: little bit of hope that this might actually happen. Look 407 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: At what happened in Texas. Nobody expected the Laredo, you know, 408 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: South Health Texas move towards Trump. Obviously something's going on there. 409 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: I think a huge part of that had to do 410 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: with the lockdowns. A big part of it also had 411 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: to do with the stimulus Jackson more. But the general 412 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: critique hatred whatever you want to call it, a working 413 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: class Latinos against you know, this kind of blue establishment, 414 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: which kind of Kamala Harrison, Gavin Newsom definitely embody more 415 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: than Joe Biden. That's still there. And I would personally 416 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: bet on the salience kind of of that force here, 417 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: which is why I think things might be more fluid. 418 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm crazy, Maybe I just want to see Gavin 419 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: Newsom get recalled. I think it would be a Brexit 420 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: level event like in American politics. But I'm curious for 421 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: your view on all this. Yeah, I don't think it's 422 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: Brexit level A because apologies to Californians, I'm an Oregonian. 423 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: The referendum system is insane, Like this isn't like I 424 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: think if we could design a system from scratch, no 425 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: one would use this system. It's clearly an it's it's 426 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: an antique from the progressive era. Sure apologies. I don't 427 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: know if there's a for making some type of recall system, 428 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: but I don't think people would design it this way. 429 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: I want to bring up a tweet that Parker Thompson 430 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: is Silicon Valley Venture Capitali's brought up because he's very 431 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: much in the camp that you're in. He isn't happy 432 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: with Gavin Newsom, but he says the following. I would 433 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: really like to hear the case for why Larry Elder 434 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: is good rather than why Gavin Newsom is bad. We 435 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: can agree he's bad, but why would Elder make my 436 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: life better than the status quo? I could think his 437 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: several concrete ways would make it worse. Once again, that 438 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: is not me agreeing necessarily that Larry Elder makes things worse. 439 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: It's just the problem that I think is going to 440 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: stop all this is I do not think Larry Elder 441 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: was the proper candidate to actually overthrow Gavin Newsom. If 442 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: you think back to what's happening in California, say what 443 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: you want up an armored Swarzenegger. No offense to him. 444 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: I think he's incredibly cringed right now. It was actually 445 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: true in two thousand and three that he was really heterodox. 446 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: He was different. He wasn't this traditional Republican in the 447 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: state that was less and less friendly to Republicans. He's 448 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: a person who could come with at least a narrative 449 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: of a different approach. Larry Elder is a traditional conservative. 450 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: This is a guy who is against the existence of 451 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: a minimum wage. Let's see how that position polls of 452 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: working class Hispanics. See, that's a very important point and 453 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: kind of what I want to drive home because now 454 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: I'll bring you the poll. So let's put this up there, 455 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: which kind of does change the game a little bit. 456 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: You can see there up on the screen for those 457 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: who are just listening. It's California governor recall. The remain 458 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: camp is fifty one percent. Recall is at forty three. Now, 459 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: remember in this system, recall has to have fifty one 460 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: percent of day of or of all voters for there 461 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: to be then the next person who has the highest 462 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: amount on the ballot, who would be Larry Elder in 463 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: this poll at twenty seven percent could then become the 464 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: next governor, which is kind of what does make it 465 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: such a crazy system. Twenty seven percent only would be 466 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: enough theoretically in order to get you elected. The pier's 467 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: part of the problem. I think Larry elder A might 468 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: to peak too soon. I think what happened is that 469 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: people saw the poll, like California Democrats who don't like 470 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom, but then they were like, wait a second, 471 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: I don't want a boomer Republican to be my governor. 472 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: And so now they are becoming beginning to be a 473 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: little bit more activated. But here's the thing. Given the 474 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: here's part of the problem is nobody ever really spends 475 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: that much time polling California because it always goes blue. 476 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: Number one, number two, Latinos, as we saw in Texas 477 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: and in Florida, notoriously difficult to pull very you know, 478 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where people have never invested 479 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: in the community. There's definitely not It's very difficult in 480 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: order to gauge public opinion. Number three is this, and 481 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: this is why I still have a little bit of 482 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: hope left in this in this race, is that who 483 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: are the people who are gonna crawl through. I guess 484 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: there's no snow in California, But who are gonna crawl 485 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: through the wildfires and the smoke in order to make 486 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: sure they go to the ballot or go to the 487 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: ballot box, or go to the mailbox and put their 488 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: mail in ballots. The people against vaccine mandates, the people 489 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: against mass mandates, people against lockdowns, those as you're seeing 490 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: at school districts all across this country. Who are the 491 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: peace people who are most pissed off, who are showing up? 492 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: It's the ones who are most pissed off. So when 493 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: you have this highly agitated base and then rest of 494 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: the people who are just like, I don't know. And 495 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: this what we had about with Gustavo. People don't like Avenusom. 496 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: Some people who hate him really hate him, but nobody 497 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: really likes him. And so that is why the polling 498 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: miss could be there. I mean, people forget this, but 499 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: like thirty forty percent or whatever state of California are Republicans, right, 500 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: They just are dominated by the rest of the sixty 501 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: This is kind of their time to shine. So it 502 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: really could be kind of just the craziness of the 503 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: system itself, which could at least give it a chance 504 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: that this might happen. You know, it's really wild. Here 505 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 1: a couple of things. One, I just want to go 506 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: back to the Larry Elder point that you made, which 507 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: is really that the peaking too early. Because of that peak, 508 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: it made the race about do you want Larry Elder 509 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: to be governor once again. That's why I was bringing 510 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: up that Parker Thompson tweet. The actual thing that was 511 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: actually really bad gavenusm is do you like Gavin Newsom. 512 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: This is the point that you're making when it's about that. 513 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: The second point is, if you're looking at these super 514 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: red states like Texas or these blue states like California, 515 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: the people who are going to actually overthrow that establishment 516 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: status quot long terms, Let's get real, Larry Elder, if 517 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: he wins, will not be reelected in twenty twenty two. 518 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: They have to be heterodots. They can't just be the 519 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: opposite of whatever is in power. But you have to say, hey, 520 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: like I'm actually a moderate Democrat who doesn't like the 521 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: lockdown policy. They are going to look much more like 522 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: this is your favorite thing. They look much more like 523 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: the rock. They're gonna look like Matthew McConaughey, they're gonna 524 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: look like Schamath, Paula Hapetilla, the Silicon Valley investor who 525 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: was talking a lot about running or year, but he 526 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: didn't actually run. And then the final thing, and this 527 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: is the wild part, which regardless of whether that Gavin 528 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: Newsom wins, it is hard to look at this upcoming 529 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: generation of traditional center left Democrats and see any hope 530 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: for them from a pure political basis. Kamala is underwater 531 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: when it comes to her polling, Andrew Cuomo is he's 532 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: go out obviously, maybe he makes to come back in 533 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: New York. There's talking he wants to do that. And 534 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: then Gavin Newsom, who has been this on the scene, 535 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: this is once again bring it back to middleicine. It's 536 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: two thousand. This is the long term. We've been hearing 537 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: the name Gaffins Sisk for decades, right, So this whole 538 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: Biden part of the party has been eviscerated. Yeah, it's 539 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: kind of fascinating because it's true. These people are so terrible, 540 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: just as like as politicians themselves. They are not doing 541 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: well in their states. Part of why I want them 542 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: to lose. I will put this up there. And this 543 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: is again where my little bit of hope comes in 544 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: from CNN our producer James found this piece why the 545 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: California recall is within the margin of error and what 546 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: that means for Gavin Newsom. It's from Harry Enton. He's 547 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: a polling guy I've always kind of respected, used to 548 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: work over at five thirty eight. So what he points 549 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: to is that the polling for the recall is actually 550 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 1: quite limited. So even though I think we've brought people 551 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: here too maybe three different distinct polls, and I want 552 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: to be clear, the last two big polls that have 553 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: come out of the state of California have Newsome not 554 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: just up but up, big prediction markets and all that 555 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,479 Speaker 1: stuff not even close to what they're pointing to. So 556 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: what he's saying there is that when you look at 557 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: what exactly is going on, is that the case with 558 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: a very small number of polling data, and essentially what 559 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: we have right now is there have been fewer than 560 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: five polls of any type that have eve been published 561 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: this month, and that in the very last recall election 562 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: of the sitting governor in California, which is in two 563 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: thousand and three, there were actually more than twice as 564 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: many published during the same period. It's that. Hey, interesting 565 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: question is why exactly that's not going on right now? Yes, 566 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: that is the answer, hestone, Like you know Vileno's show, 567 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: that's part of what this is that's a good point. 568 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: I didn't even think about. You know, I remember whatever 569 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: you were launched on, Jay Leno T three came out, 570 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: it was it was that was a big polling one 571 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: of time before Iraq too. It must have been. It 572 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: must have been nice. But really what they're saying is that, 573 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: and what Harry Enton points to is that the lack 574 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: of polling period is actually and jet and then still 575 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: the tightness and the margin of error, even with what 576 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm bringing people right now, still puts Gavin very much 577 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: within that margin of error. And so you know, the 578 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: Chrystalin Zaga rule of polling is whatever it is for 579 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: a Democrat, add like a minimum of four and probably 580 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: seven whenever it comes to Republicans. And we'll get to 581 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: that later a particularly egregious example. So that's why I 582 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: kind of still have a dog in this fight. Hey, 583 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: So remember how we told you how awesome premium membership was, Well, 584 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: here we are again to remind you that becoming a 585 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: premium member means you don't have to listen to our 586 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: constant please for you to subscribe. So what are you 587 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: waiting for? Become a premium member today by going to 588 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com, which you can click on in the 589 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: show notes. All right, let's get to this next one. 590 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: This one is for my friend Marshall, who's very interested 591 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: in all these types of things, and it's an interesting 592 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: news story with Donald Trump and the new social media 593 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: app Getter. Now, you guys might have heard of Getter. 594 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: It is a social media app. It's essentially a Twitter copy, 595 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: which is owned by Jason Now. Jason Miller was a 596 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: senior advisor to the Trump campaign in twenty sixteen, was 597 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: a big Trump surrogate here in DC. Then after Trump 598 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: got banned from Facebook and Twitter went and launched this 599 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: new platform. There were a lot of discussions like Parlor 600 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: obviously went down, Amazon Web Services and all of that. 601 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: Gab is basically untouchable, and so Trump's not going to 602 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: go on GAB. Nobody really knew where Trump fell on 603 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: all of this, because he also had his ill fated 604 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: blog for a time, which wasn't doing that well. But 605 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: this actually could be his real return and to try 606 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: and get his return to social media ahead of it possible. 607 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four runs, So all that exposition kind of 608 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: out of the way. Let's put this up there on 609 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: the screen from Axios. Basically, it's a scoop from Sarah Fisher, 610 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: great reporter. By the way, she says Trump wants equity 611 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: in Jason Miller's social media app. So here's what she writes. Quote. 612 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: The former president has yet to join the app, although 613 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: sources say conversations about his participation are ongoing. Discussions about 614 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: equity are likely part of those conversations. So basically what 615 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: Trump is saying is, I'm not lending you my brand 616 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: and all of my people, Jason unless you give me 617 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: some ownership of this parlor. Actually offered him equity as 618 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: far as I know, back in the day, and they 619 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: decided not to do it. But what do you make 620 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: of this whole thing? Marshall, Yeah, I'm obsessed with this 621 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: story because it's the perfect intersection of politics, technology, and media. 622 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: There's this idea and this concept of the creator economy, 623 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: which is basically that because of the Internet, because of 624 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: the way things work right now in business, you as 625 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: a media person. Me as the media person, we no 626 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: longer need to go to big institutions, and we actually 627 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: have a bunch of tools. Whether it's supercast, which is 628 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: how this show has done, whether it's Patreon, we can 629 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: actually do things that way. And the implication of this 630 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: idea is that the central value on any platform is 631 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: actually you. I would actually say it with supercast ruin Crystal. 632 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: Success is huge. So if people look at Donald Trump 633 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: and say, well, Donald Trump is just trying to get equity, 634 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: that seems kind of weird. My point is if I 635 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: could play Donald Trump's agent for a second, hell, yes, 636 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: he's getting equity because Donald Trump is the central value 637 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: in all these platforms. I was trying to think and 638 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: I was prepping for the show, there's like fifteen to 639 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: twenty different like free speech. Servell has on he was 640 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: always different apps, right, and the app which is going 641 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: to dominate because once again, most of these things we 642 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: always talk about are probably win or take all markets. 643 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: No one's looking to have five different conservative to IDW 644 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,719 Speaker 1: apps is gonna be the one that brings Donald Trump 645 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: and his actual audience there. So the key thing there 646 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: is that Trump should be demanded because let's say Jason 647 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: Miller's getter really works out, and let's say it becomes 648 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: a unicorn insvided more than a billion dollars. Uh. If 649 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: I'm Donald Trump, I'm thinking, wait a second, why am 650 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: I just getting tips? Because the way it's going to 651 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: monetize itself right now is advertising and tips. If you're 652 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, You're like, wait, like, why am I not 653 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: getting a huge cut of money whenever the thing IPOs 654 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: or sales to someone? So this is an entirely reasonable demand. 655 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: It should be done. This is the way the world 656 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: works from now. And just like the last thing, because 657 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: everyon want to make this queers, it's a really important idea. 658 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: The Hill just sold for a decent a decent amount 659 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: of money. You and Crystal built this huge platform, and 660 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: under traditional media, the two of you would not have 661 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: gotten any traditional upside from that, right. I think that's 662 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: bs how these things are moving forward. And I think 663 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: it's important that people take that as the takeaway. If 664 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: there are any people who are creators who are watching 665 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: this segment right now, if you are spending time on 666 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: an app, because there's so many different ones, you should 667 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: be really be asking yourself, like, am I the primary 668 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: generator of value here and if so, I should be 669 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,239 Speaker 1: asking for a cut. Yeah, I mean, I mean think 670 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: that's an excellent point. You know. The funny thing is, though, 671 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: they're going to run into some problems, so people are 672 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: already pointing towards this didn't have an element made for this, unfortunately, 673 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: but it's about how just a couple of days, about 674 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: a month ago, August second, the hottest flood pro Trump 675 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: social network with propaganda getter. So they are now a 676 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: wash with beheading videos and extremist content. So that means 677 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: they are gonna have to start taking some of this 678 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: down sometimes, you know, sometimes at the behest of federal law. 679 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes you know, just because that's not what you want 680 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: on your platform. So I wonder are they just gonna want, 681 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: like wander into the same mindfield that Twitter is. Everybody's 682 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: already pissed off about Twitter, everybody's pissed off about Facebook. 683 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: Liberals are mostly pissed they don't sensor enough. Republicans are 684 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: a piss that they censor too much. But kind of 685 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: what this illustrates to me is you do have to 686 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: have and I've said this so many times here, and 687 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: I know people don't like to hear it. You have 688 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: to have some type of moderation. Not I'm not saying 689 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm cool with the current moderation regime, but do you 690 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: really want beheading videos to proliferate on Twitter? Like, no, 691 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: I don't want that. It was actually a really bad thing. 692 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: I remember covering it at the time twenty kind of 693 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen twenty fourteen. Isis was getting away Scott free 694 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter and they were doing a lot of recruiting 695 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: and propaganda kind of on the platform, and Twitter was 696 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: like they were very slow, frankly to take a lot 697 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: of it down. And I think that this is a 698 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: good example of some of the problems that when they 699 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: start to get into this business for themselves. You can 700 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: say free speech all you want, but you are going 701 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: to have to take some stuff down. Like nobody does 702 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: want to live in a zero moderation world. How do 703 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: you think they're going to handle that? I mean, it's 704 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: just funny to bring it back to Mike Lindell for 705 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: a second. Remember when he announced his app, his app 706 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: was actually crazy I'm Christian. Yeah, He's like, this is 707 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: a Christian platform. You're getting censored if you're not right, 708 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: And the key lesson. There is that a lot of times. 709 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: And this is why it's important for you to make 710 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: the point you're making about moderation, because I think when 711 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: people use the word censorship, it obscures people's ability to think, 712 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: which is Michae Lindell. Your problem of Twitter isn't that 713 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: there are literally some type of rules. Your beef is 714 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: just that they aren't trumpy, right wing Christian Christian rules correct. 715 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: So in this case, I'm really interested in how this 716 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: could possibly relate to what happened with OnlyFans. Think about this. 717 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: OnlyFans walked back their no like live sex policy, So 718 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: that's not going to happen anymore. But the initial thing 719 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: that drove that decision and literally changing the nature of 720 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 1: their app was bank and capital raising regulation. And while 721 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: they can actually get funding if you're getter, I really wonder, 722 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: because let's get real for a second. This thing is 723 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: not going to be profitable. It's going to require a 724 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: lot of money. It's going to require a usage of banks. 725 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 1: I really wonder in a post only Fans Debacer world, 726 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: is it possible for a platform to take that aggressive 727 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: of a stand if they're actually going to treat themselves 728 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: as a real business. If this thing is going to 729 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: basically say, look, we're doing this for fundsie, there's just 730 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: like many things in the political world and it's really 731 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: just about like vibes and things like that. That's one thing. 732 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: But if this is an actual business, then that actually 733 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: suggests that there's going to be a major issue coming 734 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: down the line. And I would really suggest to Jason 735 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: Mill and anyone act that platform to do is actually 736 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: think to yourself, Okay, but seriously, what do we do 737 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: when January sixth, two point zero happen? And not just 738 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: make these decisions on the spots when we see all 739 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: these really really everyone now agrees these are bad decisions 740 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 1: for basically like, for example, the New York Post Hunter 741 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: Biden story, which everyone now agrees was the bad decision. 742 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: It happened as these platforms did not say to themselves, hey, 743 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: like we're super afraid of getting criticized by the New 744 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: York Times or different things, what do we do when 745 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: there's an emergency? Probably call Jack because instead they're just like, oh, 746 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: take it down, yeah, ban it all right. That was 747 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: the wrong approach, And I doubt, let's be real, with 748 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: Jason Miller, is doing this level of thinking, well, what's 749 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: funny is that here's the quote from their actual website. 750 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: Getter is a non bias, not biased social media network 751 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: for people all over the world. Getter tried the best 752 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: to provide best software quality to users, allow anyone to 753 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: express their opinion freely. So the you know, the the 754 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 1: terrible grammar and all of that aside there, what are 755 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: they trying to get at? I mean, I do think 756 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: they're kind of walking themselves into a problem. And you're 757 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: gonna see that, like the jihadis thing, That's how it 758 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: always starts. It always starts with the Jihatas and the 759 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: white nationalists, right, because they always flood this type side. 760 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: It's like, Gab, I think the same thing happened over there, 761 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: and I think GAB also, what was this synagogue shooting 762 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: or whatever that was transferred and they had to go 763 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: and take a bunch of stuff down. And I always 764 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: see this kind of with these like very very pro 765 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: that's like, look, eventually one of these things is going 766 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: to happen on your platform. Now the real question is 767 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: what do you do about it? Because especially whenever it's 768 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: in violation of federal law like that is where you 769 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: especially have to say, okay, like this is going to 770 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: be a real problem for us. I don't think they 771 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: have any problems necessarily taking that down. But you know, 772 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: there's a reason that most people say you shouldn't advocate 773 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: for violence right on a platform. And actually, I mean 774 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: that is technically it's dubious as I understand it, but 775 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: it could be legal or you could you know, if 776 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,240 Speaker 1: you're insinuating it, or like you post somebody's they're illegal. 777 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: I think about posting somebody's address just like just so 778 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, like this is happening, but we all know 779 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: exactly what's going on there, right, So that's the problem 780 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: they're going to run into, especially if they start to scale, 781 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: like if they if Trump does get on here. I 782 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: mean that's millions of people, millions and millions, right, which 783 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: they're going to have. And then something Ben Thompson, I've 784 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 1: talked about him before. Tech is a blogger, I don't 785 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: know analysts, let's call them that terms Techtratecory is his 786 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: newsletter that I subscribe to, and he wrote about this one. 787 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: She's like part of the problem whenever you're running social 788 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: media companies. And again I'm not defending YouTube's regime Twitter's regime. Facebook. 789 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: We have plenty of criticism for that here, but he goes, 790 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: if you think about the scale of the problem, the 791 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: problem is is when you onboard all of humanity, you 792 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,760 Speaker 1: are onboarding also the worst of humanity, which is that, look, 793 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: most people are good people, but there are rapists, murders, pedophiles, jihadis, 794 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: et cetera amongst us. So we have to decide how 795 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: the hell we're going to deal with that. Kind of 796 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: the same principle applies online, which is that, look, it's 797 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: a use case of one in one hundred thousand, but 798 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: that multiply that by millions, you've actually got a lot 799 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: of cases that you kind of have to figure out 800 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: what the hell you're gonna do here. Well, look, the 801 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: answer is that you should be honest. Aside from the 802 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: terrible grammar as you put it out. It was a 803 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: mistake from them to say they're not biased, because that's 804 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: just BS right, everyone has a bias. I thought we'd 805 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: move past this idea though I'm the totally neutral we're 806 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: totally neutral soccer. We have no that's that's BS and 807 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: that's not true. Jack Dorsey definitely regrets saying back in 808 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: the early twenty tens that Twitter is the free speech 809 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: wing of the free speech Party. That was not actually true. 810 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: He didn't actually believe that. That's not me trying to 811 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: dug on Jack, It's just that he had a faulty 812 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,280 Speaker 1: conception of what that meant. Jason Miller has a really 813 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: faulty conception of what biases. So what you actually have 814 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: to do here. This is a skill for politicians, this 815 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: is a skill for tech founders. Think of what people 816 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: are actually asking for. No one is asking people to 817 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: not have a perspective, but they're saying, hey, can you 818 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: be fair? What pisses conservatives off about YouTube, Twitter, all 819 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,439 Speaker 1: these platforms because whatski roll for second, most people actually 820 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: have a predecent time on these platforms. If you're a 821 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: normal conservative of sub three hundred followers, you're having a 822 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: pretty okay to have a great time. I'm sorry, it's true, 823 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: I said it. But here's what's legitimate about your gripe. 824 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: You do not trust the moderators. You see the fact 825 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: that nine out of ten times I'm making the statistic up, 826 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: but it's directionally true. The moderation mistakes seem to trend 827 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: to one specific end of the angle. So what Jason 828 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: Miller should say is, look, I have a perspective saying 829 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: I want this to be totally free and open. That's 830 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: a perspective like that is actually a bias. You shouldn't 831 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: we should pretend otherwise. But he should in said say, look, 832 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: we're going to be a platform that you can trust. 833 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: We are going to be a platform that our number 834 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: one job is going to be making sure of that 835 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: anyone who's taking down a Jahati video, anyone who's taking 836 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: down a mosque shooting, that they are trained and they 837 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: are not biased, and they understand what they are doing. 838 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: We're frankly, are only going to hire people who understand that. 839 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: That is what his job is to convey as a CEO. Yeah, 840 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: and you know, part of the problem that they're already 841 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: beginning to have, and this popped up on Business Insider 842 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: just a couple of days ago, is that they actually 843 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: the problem that because it's built on free speech, Like 844 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: I said, what starts to happen now they have problems 845 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: in terms of moderation on child pornography. And it's like 846 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: the more you dig into these things, this almost always 847 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: seems to happen. I watch this QAnon documentary on HBO, 848 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,439 Speaker 1: which I actually highly recommend, and it was funny because 849 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: eight Chan, you know, which is as wild of the 850 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: West as it possibly gets. They have to do the 851 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: same problem. Right. They actually have an immense team of 852 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 1: moderators in order to remain in legal compliance because they 853 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 1: have the same issue. They're gonna get flooded with like 854 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: the absolute dregs of society. And it's just interesting to 855 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: me about how Trump and all of them are are 856 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: going to have to navigate this because they have to write, 857 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: and especially not just Jason Miller. And right now, you know, 858 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: I think there's only a couple million people on the platform, 859 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: which actually not bad. But let's say Trump gets on there, 860 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about tens of millions of people who might 861 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: follow him. They're gonna have to run into these same 862 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: things like every time, and the way they navigate it, 863 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: you've got to think very clearly, kind of up at 864 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: the top. And that is why I just wish that 865 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 1: people would do well. And just one quick thing, mister 866 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: social media growing audience king over here, Yeah, are we 867 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: actually sure that Trump is going to bring millions of people? 868 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: Let's I'm asking you this right right, let me take 869 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 1: over the interview slot for a second, Is it possible 870 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 1: that Trump isn't actually worth taking twenty percent equity? Because 871 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 1: I actually could totally see a bowl case for a 872 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: bear case for actually Trump will throw up some half 873 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: assed content, but it's actually not going to drive millions 874 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: millions of people there. And actually the truth is that, 875 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: you know, Twitter is actually fined for most people, and 876 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: that's that maybe you think maybe I don't know. It 877 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: also depends on the modernization, right, so like, look, maybe 878 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: not tens of millions as where I were, but like 879 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: ten million is probably correct. I think ten million. There's 880 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people, okay, and like that's enough people 881 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 1: where you know, if you're advertising for like some sort 882 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: of like MAGA adjacent brand, like I could definitely see 883 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: how they could make that work. I'm not saying it's 884 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: going to be a billion dollar company, but like could 885 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: it be one hundred million dollar company? Yeah? Maybe, And 886 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: so like that's that's kind of what. Yeah, I don't know. 887 00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting and Chrystal and I have talked 888 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: about this. Let me see if I can find it, 889 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: which is that Trump's social media Yeah, in terms of 890 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: his disappearing names, this was an interesting kind of analysis, 891 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: which is that this was recently I'm reading from a 892 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: newsweek piece. I'll put the link down there in a 893 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,439 Speaker 1: description just because you don't have a tear sheet made 894 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: data is applied by brand Watch showed more than three 895 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five million mentions of Donald Trump on 896 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: the social web from the start of June to the 897 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: end of July twenty twenty one. Now this is important 898 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: because June twenty twenty is where you start to see 899 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: the most same thing in October and November. But listen 900 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,879 Speaker 1: to this. The low point is April of twenty twenty one, 901 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: with two point four million. That is a ninety five 902 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: percent drop from its peak. So in July the current 903 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: figure is a three point five million. So the all 904 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: time low obviously happens in April. IM not really sure 905 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 1: what was going on in April, but anyway, that's what happens. 906 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: So the figure is interesting because if you consider it, 907 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: it's like this huge spike. I mean, like I just 908 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: said fifty something million and then it drops to two million. 909 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,759 Speaker 1: And Crystal is always pointing to this as there was 910 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,240 Speaker 1: a Google Trends piece back I think in March, which 911 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: said that which said that Trump's search regime or sorry, 912 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,840 Speaker 1: I keep saying regime. I'm not sure why that's in 913 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 1: my oath. And so Trump's search results, as in the 914 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: number of Google searches for him, had actually returned to 915 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: pre twenty fifteen levels. That's actually really bad, because you know, 916 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: I think I've told this story before publicly, but I 917 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: believe the most revealing episode that I ever saw of 918 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: Trump whenever I was a White House correspondent, is whenever 919 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: it was right after the midterm elections and one of 920 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: the reporters came to thank him. It was like, thank 921 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: you so much for doing this press conference, and he 922 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: looked at him with so much contempt, and he's like, 923 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: it's called earned media. It's worth billions, as in, it's 924 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: very much just like, none of this is about you. 925 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,760 Speaker 1: It's about me. I'm using your platform to get attention, 926 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: which is the number one commodity that I have in 927 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: this world. So yeah, I don't know if he does. 928 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: And actually this is kind of an interesting point. You know, 929 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: if he does actually want to run again, he does 930 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: kind of need Twitter and Facebook, and that is this 931 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: is a very uncomfortable conversation that both sides have to have, 932 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,760 Speaker 1: which is that Trump is actually not bigger than Twitter 933 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: or Facebook. But also it recognizes the fact that, well, 934 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,879 Speaker 1: if that's true, then Twitter and Facebook definitely do play 935 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: an extremely vital resource in our in our discourse, which 936 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: means that they are bearing very much on the utility 937 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: status whatever you decide, whatever commiserate policy options that you 938 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,439 Speaker 1: want there. But I do think that is true. I've 939 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 1: seen actually some public reporting that I think it was 940 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 1: from Axios, was a couple of months ago that the 941 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: Trump team saw a Trump return to Facebook as vital 942 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 1: quote vital to his ability to run in twenty twenty four. 943 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: And that just tells you a lot about what that 944 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: actually means if you do need to run it again 945 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: for when you run up a campaign. Yeah, and look 946 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,240 Speaker 1: like to sum it up, the part that I'm utterly 947 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: convinced of is a if Trump wants one for president again, 948 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: like you just said, it is a total mistake for 949 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: him in exchange for fake equity to go onto this platform, 950 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,839 Speaker 1: because Trump and Trump in a vacuum is just boring. Yeah, 951 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: Trump Trump without Jake Tapper tweet or some other thing. 952 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: There's what's what's the point of this spectacle? There's no 953 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: there's no point, it's not entertaining, it's not helpful. So 954 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: he's really I guess what's difficulty is they're not going 955 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: to the back on Twitter. So he's in this weird 956 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: Trump genuinely is in this really tough position where there's 957 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,160 Speaker 1: these two it's not even clearly those two paths here. Yeah, 958 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. I really don't know how it all 959 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: works out for him. Okay, let's get to another story, Marginal, 960 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: I know you know this is an interesting Crystal actually 961 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,400 Speaker 1: wanted to cover this too, so I'm glad that we 962 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: could focus in on it. And I have a lot 963 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: of complicated feelings on this one. So let's go ahead 964 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 1: and put it up there on the screen. And so China, 965 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: the authorities in China have announced something very interesting. So 966 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,439 Speaker 1: they say that they will for anyone under the age 967 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,840 Speaker 1: of eighteen, they're to be limited to playing online games 968 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,879 Speaker 1: to only three hours a week plus only these three 969 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: hours eight till nine pm on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. 970 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,520 Speaker 1: And so, man, I can already see the Chinese teenagers 971 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,239 Speaker 1: kind of absolutely freaking the hell out. But they announced 972 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,239 Speaker 1: this that there's going to be inspections actually of the 973 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,280 Speaker 1: gaming companies in conjunction with this new law to limit 974 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,359 Speaker 1: gaming on those for under age eighteen, and there had 975 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,919 Speaker 1: previously been limits, but now there are only three specific 976 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: hours per week in which these kids can play. So 977 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 1: this is really fascinating the Chinese. This all happened. I 978 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,880 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this in my monologue on Tuesday, 979 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: which is that there was that whole ipo of Tencent 980 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: where you know, the iPod here in the United States 981 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: took billions of American dollars, stole it went back to 982 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,759 Speaker 1: China intencent. Then the Chinese government was like, actually, ten Cent, 983 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: you're done. Gaming is a scourge on our society, and 984 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 1: we've realized that it's taking away from the vitality of 985 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: our youth men in particular. This is bad. You announce 986 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,880 Speaker 1: this in conjunction, You're seeing a real social crackdown in 987 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: China in terms of the extracurricular activity that they're allowing 988 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: their population to engage in. So it's I mean, look, personally, 989 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: I think video games are a scourge, but I mean 990 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,320 Speaker 1: the American in me is saying this is kind of crazy. 991 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,919 Speaker 1: But also these are children, so who the hell knows. 992 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,840 Speaker 1: It's a complicated one. I don't think it's actually that complicated. 993 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,319 Speaker 1: And just one quick addendum to what you're saying, it's 994 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: online gaming. So the key so the key thing, because 995 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: this is a critical thing. It's not that gamer. This 996 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,200 Speaker 1: what I don't wanner. Yeah, so I'm as we debated 997 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 1: in my Twitter threat about coming on last night, I 998 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: am not a gamer either, though I do play games, 999 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 1: a very critical thing. I promised to shout out someone's 1000 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 1: point yesterday said as people who grew up in the 1001 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties and two thousands, this could represent a renaissance 1002 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,760 Speaker 1: single player games, because the key thing is the Chinese. 1003 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: What they've created is a system where you have to 1004 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,800 Speaker 1: log in with your ID and even some facial recognition 1005 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: technology in certain cases to verify it online. But if 1006 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 1: you're playing a single player game offline doesn't affect this. 1007 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: So this isn't a ban on video gaming past three 1008 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: hours a week. It's a ban on online gaming on 1009 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 1: except for those three days. Well, I may ask you 1010 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,799 Speaker 1: this though, isn't social isn't that type of gaming what 1011 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: most children are spending a lot of their time on. 1012 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: So again, once again, I do not know anything about 1013 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: red Blocks, Fortnite, any of this stuff. But as I 1014 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: understand it, what makes Fortnite and all that's so fun 1015 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: for the middle schoolers, high schoolers, and I guess you know, 1016 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: probably even older people who play it is that it 1017 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,239 Speaker 1: is a social game, like it wouldn't be that. The 1018 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 1: addictive aspect of it necessarily isn't just from that, but 1019 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,719 Speaker 1: also what allows people to spend hours and hours and 1020 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 1: hours and hours doing it is that there's that whole 1021 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,400 Speaker 1: community aspect people are talking, chatting or whatever within that 1022 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,880 Speaker 1: is like we no, So that's the joke about a 1023 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,759 Speaker 1: single player game renaissance. The gaming industry obviously post two 1024 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: thousand and three really moved into online games being huge, 1025 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,560 Speaker 1: and you're totally right about Fortnite all those different parts. 1026 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 1: What I'm just saying, though, is that it's not literally 1027 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: that gaming. It's very precisely what's what's talked about here. 1028 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: There is no way to prevent people from playing single 1029 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,360 Speaker 1: player games. We're purely talking in the online sphere. Secondly, 1030 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 1: what's this what's not just by hook line and sinker 1031 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,840 Speaker 1: the video game addiction thing, right, Like, we're not gamers. 1032 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,359 Speaker 1: But I think it's actually really important to note that 1033 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any actual evidence that people are 1034 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:37,400 Speaker 1: addicted to gaming, and we shouldn't confuse your dislike for Fortnite, 1035 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: for like, all these people who don't like this thing 1036 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,840 Speaker 1: that I like are addicted. Right, there are people who 1037 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 1: don't use social media, so everyone's addicted to Twitter. I'm like, well, 1038 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,319 Speaker 1: are they or are you just describing a behavior you 1039 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 1: don't like. I mean, I could see where people are, 1040 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,760 Speaker 1: like people are addicted to comic books, and people are 1041 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,960 Speaker 1: addicted to television, et cetera, et cetera. At something they 1042 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:57,160 Speaker 1: did say, the question is what and how should society 1043 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,720 Speaker 1: actually exist in order itself? Now, I am frankly thankful 1044 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,040 Speaker 1: as a non gamer this is not on the table 1045 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,400 Speaker 1: in the US, because once again we're looking at gaming. 1046 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,040 Speaker 1: I could definitely see that a cadre of people in 1047 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: this listenership and viewership we say, hey, gaming's bad. I'm 1048 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,839 Speaker 1: okay directionly with this, but like, actually, like the state 1049 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,799 Speaker 1: shouldn't have the ability to say this and look at 1050 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,960 Speaker 1: where there are actual real consequences. This is where I 1051 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,640 Speaker 1: think the Chinese model is so devastating. Look at the 1052 00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,440 Speaker 1: one child policy, which has now been relaxed. That was 1053 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,359 Speaker 1: the Chinese state because to bring up Ben Thompson again 1054 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,880 Speaker 1: you were talking about him earlier. In his writing about this, 1055 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 1: he was like, look, this should make clear that the 1056 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party is a deeply ideological party. It has 1057 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 1: a specific vision how society looks, how it should be ordered, 1058 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,319 Speaker 1: and they will do what it takes to make that 1059 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,680 Speaker 1: vision look. Like an example, if that was the one 1060 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,319 Speaker 1: child policy. We think our population is too big. We 1061 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: think we can determine number of children. You should have, this, this, 1062 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,640 Speaker 1: and that. Look at the disaster they now have with 1063 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,360 Speaker 1: the terrible sex and balance which is Causedouard problem what 1064 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,359 Speaker 1: they're trying to replicate. But once again, this came because 1065 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,160 Speaker 1: they intervene in this way. Like you, everyone here who 1066 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,479 Speaker 1: knows us knows we are not doctrinaire libertarians. But while 1067 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,600 Speaker 1: it's easy to dunk on the CATA, I think we 1068 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,200 Speaker 1: should take a step back and look at truths the 1069 00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 1: different side sks, which is they're like, hey, actually like 1070 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,359 Speaker 1: having a totalitarian stage. They could just wake up one 1071 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,759 Speaker 1: day and say, actually, I hate video games and we 1072 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,560 Speaker 1: think it's addicted, so we're going to is actually probably 1073 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: not a good thing. And that's not me just making 1074 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,880 Speaker 1: excuses for the video game industry. But it's really saying, hey, like, actually, 1075 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: what makes our system unique and why I have confidence 1076 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,839 Speaker 1: in ourselves long terms that the government cannot do this right? 1077 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. Let's put up some more details 1078 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,480 Speaker 1: of this'll put that Wall Street Journal tear sheet up 1079 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 1: there on the screen, please. The government announcement said, quote, 1080 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 1: all online video games will be required to connect to 1081 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,600 Speaker 1: a quote anti addiction system operated by the National Press 1082 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,759 Speaker 1: and Publication Administration. So the regulation, which takes effect on Wednesday, 1083 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:52,840 Speaker 1: will require all users to register using their real names 1084 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: and government issued identification documents. Other details of enforcement weren't 1085 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: made public, and phone calls to the National Press and 1086 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 1: Public Administration went unanswered after business hours on Monday. So 1087 00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,120 Speaker 1: in response, this is interesting, and it kind of heads 1088 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,719 Speaker 1: back to my ten cent thing, which is that it 1089 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,680 Speaker 1: will automatically boot players off after a certain use of 1090 00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 1: a certain period of time. It will use, as you said, 1091 00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: facial recognition technology to ensure that registered users are using 1092 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 1: their proper credentials. And the government is seeking this is 1093 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: what they said, quote, to effectively protect the physical and 1094 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,200 Speaker 1: mental health of minors. Now, the reason that we're picking 1095 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,560 Speaker 1: this up is this is actually a pretty big deal, 1096 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,400 Speaker 1: as Marshall pointed out, not only in terms of the 1097 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,560 Speaker 1: deep ideological view of the Chinese Communist Party, but they're 1098 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: cracking down on a lot more social elements within their 1099 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,839 Speaker 1: society too, and this is all coming kind of to 1100 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: the front right now post coronavirus, where they really do 1101 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,600 Speaker 1: feel emboldened. And I think this is an interesting point too. 1102 00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: You know, they lied about COVID. They I mean, look, 1103 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,560 Speaker 1: if you take a look at the Bavarian body of evidence, 1104 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,279 Speaker 1: they possibly covered up the fact that they might have 1105 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: been responsible for this whole thing, and the population was 1106 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:14,399 Speaker 1: really not with them during the Wuhan lockdown and all 1107 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 1: of that, but they regained kind of the trust of 1108 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,279 Speaker 1: the people. And this is from what a couple of 1109 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,959 Speaker 1: analysts that we've spoken to have said, is that by 1110 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 1: making it so that they effectively quashed coronavirus by around 1111 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,480 Speaker 1: October or November. Yes, of course with lockdowns, and I 1112 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: am saying, even with the lies and the cover up 1113 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,400 Speaker 1: and all that, you can see pictures out of Beijing 1114 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 1: and out of Wuhan, and they're very clearly like by 1115 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: October November, December, they were not as worried about COVID, 1116 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,640 Speaker 1: even close to as we were here that China and 1117 00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 1: the Chinese population in particular saw that as okay. So 1118 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 1: even though you guys lied, even though all of that, 1119 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,880 Speaker 1: they did still kind of protect us, quote unquote. So 1120 00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,760 Speaker 1: with this new feeling of being emboldened, what you see 1121 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,640 Speaker 1: now now they're going after celebrities. So I found these fascinating. 1122 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,760 Speaker 1: So put us up there from the Daily Mail, China 1123 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:12,480 Speaker 1: declares war on celebrities who are deemed social tumors that 1124 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 1: must be removed. And it's kind of the same thing, Marshall. 1125 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,960 Speaker 1: They're going after our version of like Instagram influencers who 1126 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,560 Speaker 1: they don't like. They're like, ah, these people are spreading 1127 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,920 Speaker 1: like Western consumerism and infecting the minds of our children, 1128 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,000 Speaker 1: and you know all of this, and I'm like wow, like, look, 1129 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of any of this either, but 1130 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,879 Speaker 1: it's like you said, you know, the American in you goes, look, 1131 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,799 Speaker 1: I don't think the state should be doing this either. Yeah, 1132 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,640 Speaker 1: and that's the key thing here. Yeah, there's a lot 1133 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:45,120 Speaker 1: of pessimism on both of our shows. Easy to look 1134 00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,360 Speaker 1: back at the past two decades of our political consciousness 1135 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 1: and think, wow, like things are really terrible and I'm 1136 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,239 Speaker 1: not confident and this, this and that country could do 1137 00:55:54,280 --> 00:56:00,120 Speaker 1: it better, but seeing a rising China offer a contrast 1138 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: model and really seeing how no one actually wants to 1139 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,560 Speaker 1: live there. Right, there are a lot of very online 1140 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,759 Speaker 1: people are like, that's so based China's cancer. Mean, it's like, 1141 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 1: you guys are the same people who oppose vaccine, passports 1142 00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,960 Speaker 1: right and other lockdown mandates. So like you, if the 1143 00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,440 Speaker 1: state could say we think that Instagram influencers are social tumors, 1144 00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:19,680 Speaker 1: they definitely are like, yeah, close their business for the 1145 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,920 Speaker 1: next five years until you do whatever we want. Right, 1146 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:23,840 Speaker 1: So I think it's I think the key thing is 1147 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,680 Speaker 1: that people should not derive their political philosophy from Twitter, 1148 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,879 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of contradictions here. I think it's 1149 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,360 Speaker 1: actually really important that the reason why I think you 1150 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,160 Speaker 1: and I are confident in this country long term is 1151 00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,520 Speaker 1: that despite all of the big disagreements we have about 1152 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:41,719 Speaker 1: medicare for all immigration, there's actually something actually liberal in 1153 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,920 Speaker 1: the classical liberal sense, knocks down to de rubiny about like, 1154 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, not to be too deve rubiny, but 1155 00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to be good faith here, but actually the 1156 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,520 Speaker 1: state can do some things they can't do other things, 1157 00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,560 Speaker 1: and we can have a debate about medicare for all. 1158 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,600 Speaker 1: But guess what President AOC can't say, Hey, everyone needs 1159 00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:04,360 Speaker 1: to log in to a facial recognition ID based software 1160 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,600 Speaker 1: thing because of video games. But here's what we actually 1161 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,319 Speaker 1: should do, because like once again and push back on them. Yeah, 1162 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,080 Speaker 1: if you disagree, this is a real issue. I don't 1163 00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 1: want this to come off of this claiming, oh, like 1164 00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 1: this is all fine, video games aren't a problem because 1165 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,120 Speaker 1: we like you and I like we're up in the 1166 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,680 Speaker 1: middle class, like we're going to be successful like our children. 1167 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,320 Speaker 1: It's like SOMEONEM tweeted about this how Mark Zuckerberg's kids 1168 00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,360 Speaker 1: aren't allowed to use iPads, So like there is this 1169 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: very interesting class bit here where like if you're looking, 1170 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,120 Speaker 1: it's like basically like a divorce where like rich people 1171 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,000 Speaker 1: who got divorce first when they like stop doing and 1172 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,400 Speaker 1: the most people kept doing it more and more. There 1173 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 1: are going to be norms that are going to be unfair. 1174 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:37,960 Speaker 1: So I don't want to basically say, hey, just work 1175 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,000 Speaker 1: it out. I could not have video games, but you 1176 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,080 Speaker 1: figure out what work it out. It's it's a government 1177 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,919 Speaker 1: should study this, like there should actually be a real 1178 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,240 Speaker 1: study like, is this actually an addictive thing? Hey? Like, actually, 1179 00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 1: should we get information in front of parents about these 1180 00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:52,960 Speaker 1: types of things and then we could have a debate. 1181 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,600 Speaker 1: But I don't think there's any proof that playing roadblocks 1182 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,640 Speaker 1: is addicted. No, I think you should talk about it, 1183 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,000 Speaker 1: and we think we should talk about it in schools 1184 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,320 Speaker 1: and that that is really where where a lot? And 1185 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,440 Speaker 1: also look, I mean not to get all you know, 1186 00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,400 Speaker 1: personal responsibility here, but like Crystal takes her kids' phones 1187 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,439 Speaker 1: away whenever they play you, that's a norm. That's it. Yeah, 1188 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,560 Speaker 1: like that, dude, a kind of what should be doing. Right. 1189 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,440 Speaker 1: We're not gonna have phones at the dinner table, especially 1190 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,920 Speaker 1: when they're like six years old. Yeah, no iPads. Okay, 1191 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,480 Speaker 1: let's get to another important topic. This is about Joe 1192 00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:24,400 Speaker 1: Biden's approval rating. So this one really caught my eye 1193 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,000 Speaker 1: because it showed to me how much trouble he's in. 1194 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. 1195 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,800 Speaker 1: So we have this poll economis you gov? You might say, wait, 1196 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,760 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Sager. Biden's job approval rating 1197 00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:40,200 Speaker 1: is forty seven percent and his disapproval rating is forty six. Yeah, 1198 00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,360 Speaker 1: but go ahead and take a look at that sample number, 1199 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,080 Speaker 1: and this is what I really wanted to point to. 1200 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:49,120 Speaker 1: That sample is a D plus fourteen. So that means 1201 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:54,640 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden's approval disapproval is essentially tied in a 1202 00:58:54,680 --> 00:59:00,800 Speaker 1: poll which is weighted fourteen points high for Democrats. Now, 1203 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,840 Speaker 1: as a varad meta, he's a polling guy who I 1204 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,840 Speaker 1: trust pointed out Biden on his luckiest day in the 1205 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,880 Speaker 1: midterms would have a D plus four electorate, meaning that 1206 00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 1: this is ten points oversampled, and he is still barely 1207 00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,120 Speaker 1: holding on to his approval. So look, what does that 1208 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,080 Speaker 1: tell you? What it tells to me, Biden is in deep, 1209 00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,320 Speaker 1: deep trouble on his approval rating. Everything that we have 1210 00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,600 Speaker 1: seen in the last couple of weeks. Says a couple 1211 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:33,160 Speaker 1: of things. His big lead, Marshal was COVID. He wasn't 1212 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,920 Speaker 1: just leading, it was like two through one, it was 1213 00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:40,480 Speaker 1: like sixty five percent, now fifty. As Crystal says, a 1214 00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,920 Speaker 1: lot of this is out of his control with Delta, 1215 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 1: but some of it isn't. Fauci Wolenski, the lockdowns, school masking, 1216 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,880 Speaker 1: declaring war on Florida, all of that that actually is 1217 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,880 Speaker 1: in his control, And personally, I think that's probably the 1218 00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,919 Speaker 1: biggest mistake of his entire presidency so far. And yeah, 1219 00:59:55,960 --> 01:00:01,000 Speaker 1: that includes Afghanistan, especially pushing kind of the lockdown. And 1220 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,960 Speaker 1: if you start to look at the polls, which and look, 1221 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,920 Speaker 1: these are Republican weighted, I am. So I'm telling you 1222 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,600 Speaker 1: with everything I can to please take this with a 1223 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,240 Speaker 1: grain of salt. But also it does mean something, doesn't 1224 01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,400 Speaker 1: mean everything. Check this out from Rasmussen. Put it up 1225 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,600 Speaker 1: there on the screen. Sixty percent of voters that again 1226 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,480 Speaker 1: that they pulled, agreed that Biden deserves to be impeached. Now, look, 1227 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,440 Speaker 1: they didn't point to Afghanistan or anything in particular. But 1228 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,120 Speaker 1: the reason why I think it's important is what I 1229 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,040 Speaker 1: discovered about impeachment during the Trump era is it wasn't 1230 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,200 Speaker 1: act when they would pull it. It wasn't actually about 1231 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,360 Speaker 1: the merits. They were just like, yeah, I don't like Trump. 1232 01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,240 Speaker 1: So when I look at that, I see sixty percent 1233 01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,960 Speaker 1: on this end, and then I see a barely tied 1234 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,840 Speaker 1: in a very very heavy democratic poll. Truth is somewhere 1235 01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,000 Speaker 1: in the middle, right, Like I said, the crystalin Saga 1236 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,800 Speaker 1: rule add four or five four to seven, So these 1237 01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,360 Speaker 1: maybe six seven points underwater. That's a big problem. That's 1238 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: a big, big problem, and figuring out exactly why really 1239 01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,640 Speaker 1: is kind of the story of politics right now. Yeah. 1240 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,360 Speaker 1: I mean the key thing is I think our shared 1241 01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:12,720 Speaker 1: unified theory of Joe Biden why he uniquely amongst the 1242 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,160 Speaker 1: Democratic candidates was the right candidate to be Trump. If 1243 01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,600 Speaker 1: you're a Democratic partisan, he's the normal guy. I think 1244 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,520 Speaker 1: it's always so funny when before Afghanistan, Republicans made the 1245 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,320 Speaker 1: Grandpa Joe and his basement arguments, like, actually, a lot 1246 01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,680 Speaker 1: of people are exhausted by politics and actually sounds pretty good. 1247 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,800 Speaker 1: People don't like how he's not hyper around, and they 1248 01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,360 Speaker 1: don't like how he's always in the news. That was 1249 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:38,320 Speaker 1: actually a really strong case for him. That strength turned 1250 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,560 Speaker 1: into weakness during Afghanistan because, as you've discussed, as we've discussed, 1251 01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,880 Speaker 1: most of the population in this country supported ending the war, 1252 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,479 Speaker 1: but for a variety of partisan reasons, both good faith 1253 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,360 Speaker 1: and bad faith. A lot of people were like, wait, 1254 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 1: this poet was terrible, and they did not like what 1255 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,320 Speaker 1: they saw from Joe Biden at a presidential leadership level 1256 01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,680 Speaker 1: was very clear, but this was not a man who 1257 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:05,480 Speaker 1: was in his prime both politically physically. A total disaster 1258 01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,680 Speaker 1: and that is what And then when you combine this 1259 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,840 Speaker 1: with lockdown and COVID going on, when I say normalcy, 1260 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,600 Speaker 1: I don't just be normalcy in terms of he's not 1261 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:15,960 Speaker 1: in your face all day, which is once again I'm 1262 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,120 Speaker 1: personally really enjoying it despite our business incentive skire. At 1263 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,840 Speaker 1: the same time, though, normalcy also means hey, like it's 1264 01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,080 Speaker 1: hot girl summer and we're back and COVID isn't a 1265 01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,200 Speaker 1: problem anymore, and for a variety of reasons, that didn't happen. 1266 01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,800 Speaker 1: So you're seeing this perfect intersection of these two issues 1267 01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,000 Speaker 1: that were primed to hurt his two biggest strengths. And 1268 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,160 Speaker 1: then if you don't have that, he's just a Democratic partisan. 1269 01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,360 Speaker 1: So of course it's fifty to fifty. Yeah, I pointed. 1270 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:41,880 Speaker 1: I mean I made a lot of big predictions before 1271 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,240 Speaker 1: Biden was inaugurated, and I said, I thought he'd have 1272 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,560 Speaker 1: a seventy percent approval rating, But that was predicated on 1273 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,160 Speaker 1: two things. Number one, the economy would continue to do well, 1274 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,760 Speaker 1: and number two that COVID would be over. I was like, 1275 01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:53,800 Speaker 1: all he's got to do is get people vaccinated. The 1276 01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,240 Speaker 1: biggest mistake that Biden made was and look, you could 1277 01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,600 Speaker 1: think what you want around Delta, and maybe you agree 1278 01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,160 Speaker 1: with it, but I kind of read the mood as 1279 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,959 Speaker 1: the country as people are done, people are totally over, 1280 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,960 Speaker 1: and by bringing back and kind of acquiescing to the 1281 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,360 Speaker 1: lockdown regime, to the you know, the masks everywhere and 1282 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,400 Speaker 1: look again, I know everybody out there, Zaugur, you literally 1283 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,960 Speaker 1: got COVID. You're right, it's also fine after a week. 1284 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,600 Speaker 1: Is that you can point to you can point to 1285 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,640 Speaker 1: all of this and say that the existence of the 1286 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:31,120 Speaker 1: feeling of this is not going away anytime soon. Whether 1287 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,520 Speaker 1: you blame Biden or not, that's still going to lead 1288 01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:35,840 Speaker 1: to your pessimistic view of the country. What I thought 1289 01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,600 Speaker 1: that he would get betting on and moving forward was 1290 01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,160 Speaker 1: the ability to make sure that to project a guys, 1291 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,680 Speaker 1: it's over, we're moving on. I sent to everybody these checks, 1292 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:50,040 Speaker 1: let's move forward. But they decided that Delta wasn't just 1293 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,280 Speaker 1: a new variant, but kind of a new round two 1294 01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,600 Speaker 1: of COVID. By doing that, I think they spelled their 1295 01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,440 Speaker 1: political doom because I do really believe that Trump and 1296 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,040 Speaker 1: the only reason that he was so so competitive is 1297 01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:07,120 Speaker 1: that there was an actual, huge, silent majority of people 1298 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,240 Speaker 1: who said I just don't think COVID is that big 1299 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,680 Speaker 1: of a deal, and I don't want to deal with 1300 01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,880 Speaker 1: this stuff anymore, and a lot of that is going 1301 01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:14,640 Speaker 1: to come back to Biden right now. You know, this 1302 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:18,640 Speaker 1: is probably the most disagree you get on this episode, 1303 01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,840 Speaker 1: because I'm a really mixed feelings about this. It's hard 1304 01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,040 Speaker 1: for me to look at what happened with Biden and 1305 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,480 Speaker 1: impeachment in Afghanistan next week and assume for a lot 1306 01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:30,600 Speaker 1: of his critics are in good face. So to your PC, 1307 01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: so to your point when you're talking about how you 1308 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,800 Speaker 1: know what he could have done was just say it's 1309 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,000 Speaker 1: over this, this and that. I'm sorry, but I entirely 1310 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,040 Speaker 1: see the entire right wing part of the medium put 1311 01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:46,800 Speaker 1: a system instantly pivoting to aggressive COVID measures. Oh the 1312 01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,800 Speaker 1: second that he would have done what you're describing once, 1313 01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:50,400 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to explain for Joe Biden. I'm just 1314 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:54,400 Speaker 1: trying to really, I'm trying to understand the dilemma we're 1315 01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,400 Speaker 1: in as a country through this lens, which is that 1316 01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,000 Speaker 1: the second he would have said that taken them path 1317 01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,560 Speaker 1: you described, I think you would have seeing a whole 1318 01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,120 Speaker 1: set of people, frankly, like in the South saying, oh, 1319 01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:05,800 Speaker 1: under Trump, this was getting under control, and now Joe Biden, 1320 01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,800 Speaker 1: it's crazy. Where's Joe Biden? Why is Joe Biden in 1321 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,920 Speaker 1: his basement? Why is Joe Biden saying it's over? I 1322 01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,160 Speaker 1: do know if I think if Joe Biden had said 1323 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 1: what you effect we just said, he would have said, 1324 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,640 Speaker 1: he would have gone absolutely wrecked, because once again the 1325 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,440 Speaker 1: problem here, and there's no way to get around this. 1326 01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm not pretending we could just like push this away 1327 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:26,320 Speaker 1: like Dazec Machino's style is that this is a policy problem, 1328 01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,480 Speaker 1: aka like how do you handle COVID that's infected by politics? 1329 01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,680 Speaker 1: You're talking about why is China normal? Right now? I 1330 01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,400 Speaker 1: did a lot of dunking on their system. A benefit 1331 01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:36,800 Speaker 1: of it is that they're just like, no, we're just 1332 01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:40,240 Speaker 1: gonna end. They're like lockdowns are lockdowns are in effect 1333 01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,880 Speaker 1: until they're not, and that's it and then we're done. 1334 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,800 Speaker 1: They can just do that, so Biden so, and this 1335 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,439 Speaker 1: is so frustrating because I know we can't just wish 1336 01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,040 Speaker 1: politics away, but it just seems like, once again it 1337 01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:53,080 Speaker 1: seems as if COVID really fell Donald Trump. And I 1338 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,880 Speaker 1: think there's a decent chance that COVID fells to Joe Biden. 1339 01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,400 Speaker 1: This is a toxic issue that there's no win on. 1340 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:02,880 Speaker 1: I think Biden is screwed, and I really think COVID 1341 01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:04,800 Speaker 1: is the number one reason. And the other problem too, 1342 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,920 Speaker 1: is that on the economic optimism that we saw. You know, 1343 01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,280 Speaker 1: I made this joke because I stole it from Twitter, 1344 01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,320 Speaker 1: which is that it turns out the Roaring twenties were 1345 01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,760 Speaker 1: just three weeks in June, and actually, glorious, it was 1346 01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,640 Speaker 1: a great three weeks. You know, I remember already the 1347 01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,280 Speaker 1: EU apparently is shutting down, so I'm glad I got 1348 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:25,360 Speaker 1: in while I could. But what you can see is 1349 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,480 Speaker 1: that that feeling that is what he would have rowed 1350 01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,960 Speaker 1: to at least a chance in the midterms. Now, I 1351 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,720 Speaker 1: think that he will probably get hammered bigger than they 1352 01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,120 Speaker 1: did with the Tea Party back in twenty ten. Let's 1353 01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:40,680 Speaker 1: go ahead and put this political one, just because I 1354 01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:42,080 Speaker 1: want to show you we're not cherry picking here. It's 1355 01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:45,400 Speaker 1: almost every single pole that we look at Biden underwater 1356 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:49,560 Speaker 1: there forty seven approval, forty seven approval, forty nine disapproval. Again, 1357 01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,920 Speaker 1: add in some more Republicans, and I definitely think the 1358 01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:56,640 Speaker 1: disapproval number is higher. And then finally really get to 1359 01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,640 Speaker 1: the aggregates. As we would always say in the election, 1360 01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:03,040 Speaker 1: look at the aggregates. Look at what happened here. Let's 1361 01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,840 Speaker 1: put this real clear politics graft up there on the screen. 1362 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,720 Speaker 1: Check out that crossing, that red crossing. Just in the 1363 01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,080 Speaker 1: last two weeks. You are just going to continue to 1364 01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,560 Speaker 1: see that go up. Already the economy is completely stalling 1365 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,720 Speaker 1: whenever it comes because of COVID uncertainty delta and all 1366 01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,000 Speaker 1: of that. Add in the COVID disapproval number. Then you 1367 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,000 Speaker 1: add in politics, the culture war and all of that, 1368 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,880 Speaker 1: and you just have a very toxic mess that Biden 1369 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,640 Speaker 1: is going to deal with from now on. And I 1370 01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,080 Speaker 1: do I personally think he's really screwed in two thousand 1371 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,480 Speaker 1: and in twenty twenty two. So there we go. Wow, 1372 01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:39,640 Speaker 1: you guys must really like listening to our voices. Well, 1373 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:41,680 Speaker 1: I know this is annoying instead of making you listen 1374 01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,240 Speaker 1: to a Viagra commercial when you're done. Check out the 1375 01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,040 Speaker 1: other podcast I do with Marshall Costloff called The Realignment. 1376 01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,480 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about the deeper issues that are changing. 1377 01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:52,640 Speaker 1: Realigning in American society. You always need more Crystal and 1378 01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,160 Speaker 1: zag in your daily lives. Take care, guys. Okay, let's 1379 01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,800 Speaker 1: get to my monologue. About two weeks ago, the GOP 1380 01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,440 Speaker 1: found its mantra and Afghan we want to leave, but 1381 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,360 Speaker 1: not like this now. From the beginning, I've said this repeatedly. 1382 01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:06,680 Speaker 1: When you say that, you're being a patsy for the 1383 01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,440 Speaker 1: neo Khans who never wanted to leave and are simply 1384 01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,400 Speaker 1: criticizing the withdrawal and bad faith because it covers up 1385 01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,400 Speaker 1: their sins of the last twenty years. You can say, yeah, 1386 01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,720 Speaker 1: but what about the equipment. Why didn't we haul the 1387 01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,720 Speaker 1: city of Kabble, Why not Bogram? Each one of those 1388 01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,000 Speaker 1: decisions is code for this simple truth. A bigger presence 1389 01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,160 Speaker 1: that does a more quote orderly withdrawal would have made 1390 01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:31,240 Speaker 1: the iciest bombing at Hamid Karzai International Airport look like 1391 01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,640 Speaker 1: a cakewalk. Just imagine dozens of US checkpoints around the 1392 01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:39,519 Speaker 1: city of Kabble, around the Afghan Army equipment ferrying people 1393 01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,560 Speaker 1: back and forth to Bogram. We are talking potentially hundreds 1394 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,400 Speaker 1: of US casualties. I personally say screw that. You can 1395 01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:50,120 Speaker 1: say otherwise if you want, but be honest about what 1396 01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,720 Speaker 1: you are proposing. I'm at least acknowledging the ugliness of 1397 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:58,040 Speaker 1: my position. Now you should acknowledge yours. But below though 1398 01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,840 Speaker 1: we should have withdrawn differently. Crowd is a simpler and 1399 01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,479 Speaker 1: uglier truth, the truth that most of MAGA were never 1400 01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,519 Speaker 1: really principled. They are mostly cattle being led to the 1401 01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:10,760 Speaker 1: neo con trough once again because their brains have been 1402 01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,800 Speaker 1: rotted by the culture war. Biden did something, so it 1403 01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,200 Speaker 1: must be bad. I swear I have seen people online 1404 01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,719 Speaker 1: with America first in their Twitter bios, then talking about 1405 01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:26,200 Speaker 1: conditions based withdrawals and retweeting neo cons the forever War mantra. 1406 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,880 Speaker 1: It is almost sad to behold. But the final nail 1407 01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,519 Speaker 1: in the coffin came when I started perusing not just 1408 01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,320 Speaker 1: the rhetoric that the so called America First GOP is proposing, 1409 01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:40,240 Speaker 1: but the actual policy. Nothing crystallizes it better than this. 1410 01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,080 Speaker 1: As usual, my eagle eyed friend Richard Hanadius spotted this one. 1411 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,679 Speaker 1: The House Republican Conference convened to come up with policy 1412 01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,160 Speaker 1: proposals about how they're different than the Democrats, So what 1413 01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,320 Speaker 1: is it exactly? The briefing was conducted by none other 1414 01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:58,000 Speaker 1: than Robert O'Brien. That was Donald Trump's own last national 1415 01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,280 Speaker 1: security advisor, here's what he came up in response to 1416 01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,679 Speaker 1: say that the US is diminished credibility abroad. They said, 1417 01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,639 Speaker 1: We're going to deploy two hundred and fifty M one 1418 01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:12,280 Speaker 1: Abrams tanks to Poland to bolster defense capabilities on the 1419 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:16,479 Speaker 1: Eastern Front against the Russians and bolster NATO. That's not 1420 01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:21,280 Speaker 1: a joke. After endless talk in the Trump years Russian reset, 1421 01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,879 Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't be defending NATO. Russia Gate is crazy. 1422 01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,040 Speaker 1: Isn't the real enemy China? Why are the Democrats so 1423 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:31,160 Speaker 1: hawkish on Russia? Yeah, and this is all they can 1424 01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:33,839 Speaker 1: come up with that would have passed for conventional wisdom 1425 01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:38,000 Speaker 1: and defense terms during the Reagan second term. Really, what 1426 01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,800 Speaker 1: it shows you is how brain dead the GOP foreign 1427 01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,000 Speaker 1: policy elite are when in doubt default to what you know. 1428 01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,120 Speaker 1: Same thing when it comes to economic policy, no matter 1429 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,320 Speaker 1: how bad the crisis is. Stephen Moore has an answer, 1430 01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:53,080 Speaker 1: payroll tax cuts. This is the same version as that 1431 01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: take Kevin McCarthy, the GOP House leader himself. Just days ago, 1432 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:01,080 Speaker 1: McCarthy defaulted to what he knows. He actually should have 1433 01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,519 Speaker 1: a permanent, true presence in Afghanistan it was only when 1434 01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,800 Speaker 1: a reporter pointed out to under Trump McCarthy said that 1435 01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,479 Speaker 1: we shouldn't that he didn't change his mind and said, well, no, 1436 01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,720 Speaker 1: actually we should withdraw, but then we should have kept 1437 01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:16,479 Speaker 1: Boggeram air Force based permanently. Isn't that also a permanent 1438 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:21,120 Speaker 1: permanent presence? But I digress. It's a complete joke. I 1439 01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,360 Speaker 1: brought you endless examples like this. My personal favorite remains 1440 01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,799 Speaker 1: Donald Trump Junior citing Iraq war drum beater Tony Blair 1441 01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,400 Speaker 1: as an example that Biden is destroying the Transatlantic Alliance. 1442 01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:35,000 Speaker 1: It's almost too comical to bear, considering I had to 1443 01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:37,759 Speaker 1: live through four years of tough talk from these guys 1444 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,960 Speaker 1: about how America is back and we don't care what 1445 01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,920 Speaker 1: these Europeans think. It's all about us, baby. When Trump 1446 01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:48,200 Speaker 1: withdraw troops from Syria and left the Kurds behind, it 1447 01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:51,639 Speaker 1: was America first, Damn the alliances. It's about our troops, 1448 01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,280 Speaker 1: not anybody else. Now, as so many have so aptly 1449 01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:58,479 Speaker 1: pointed out, the GOP is mounting some major defense of 1450 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,200 Speaker 1: dual citizen American aff as if they really care the 1451 01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,759 Speaker 1: same it said, they say for Afghan interpreters. Now look 1452 01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,519 Speaker 1: I'm passionately in favor of helping these people, but I 1453 01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,479 Speaker 1: happen to remember when the Trump administration shut down the 1454 01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,760 Speaker 1: visa program for them when negotiating a peace deal with 1455 01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:18,040 Speaker 1: the Taliban. Look, I know there's going to piss a 1456 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,120 Speaker 1: lot of people off who mostly like it when I 1457 01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:22,040 Speaker 1: stick it to the media or when I go after 1458 01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,679 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. But that's the easy part of my job. 1459 01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,200 Speaker 1: The hard part is telling people who don't want to 1460 01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:30,040 Speaker 1: hear it that they're getting played, and that's what's happening here. 1461 01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:33,120 Speaker 1: The best explanation I've seen so far is from the 1462 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,559 Speaker 1: New York Times Rostoufat. He writes, quote, you have the 1463 01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,519 Speaker 1: GOP who postured his cold eyed realists under Trump suddenly 1464 01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:44,120 Speaker 1: turning back into eager crusaders excited to own the Biden 1465 01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:48,040 Speaker 1: Democrats and relive the brief post nine to eleven period 1466 01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:52,520 Speaker 1: where the MSM treated their party with deference rather than contempt. 1467 01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,719 Speaker 1: That's really what it was all about. The truth is 1468 01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,320 Speaker 1: that when the Republicans criticized the media over the last 1469 01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,200 Speaker 1: several years, they only did so because they weren't on 1470 01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,320 Speaker 1: their side. But now they are, they don't mind it 1471 01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,519 Speaker 1: at all, and the casualty of that is dead American 1472 01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,439 Speaker 1: soldiers in more wars, but they don't care. It has 1473 01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:14,519 Speaker 1: been absolutely incredible for me to watch people who cried 1474 01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:17,200 Speaker 1: about the deep state for years now use their leaks 1475 01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:21,640 Speaker 1: against the Biden administration or trust CIA intelligence reports as 1476 01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,920 Speaker 1: long as they serve their narrative against the Biden team. 1477 01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,120 Speaker 1: It's almost like they're not consistent. All of this is 1478 01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:30,679 Speaker 1: to say partisan people are always going to be partisan. 1479 01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:34,040 Speaker 1: But what's distressed me is watching people who held completely 1480 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:37,479 Speaker 1: opposite positions just switch on a dime so fast. To 1481 01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:41,000 Speaker 1: see so many messages and outrage about Afghanistan as people 1482 01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:44,200 Speaker 1: are being absolutely played by GOP leaders just because they 1483 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,639 Speaker 1: also happen to share your position on critical race theory 1484 01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,759 Speaker 1: is the worst part of this. Now, look the next crisis. 1485 01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:51,720 Speaker 1: Who knows if Joe Biden has the stones to do 1486 01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:54,120 Speaker 1: what he did with Afghanistan again. If O Libya type 1487 01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,040 Speaker 1: crisis comes up, I guarantee you the GOP will be 1488 01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:00,320 Speaker 1: clamoring to intervene again. They haven't learned anything. The people 1489 01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,719 Speaker 1: who suffer won't be them, it's their voters, and worse, 1490 01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,519 Speaker 1: the rest of us who see reason and aren't blinded 1491 01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,280 Speaker 1: by partisan hate. That's the thing, Marshall that really gets 1492 01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:13,320 Speaker 1: me is to have these people who we're talking about America. First, 1493 01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,240 Speaker 1: one more thing, I promise. Just wanted to make sure 1494 01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:19,400 Speaker 1: you knew about my podcast with Kyle Kolinski. It's called Crystal, 1495 01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:21,960 Speaker 1: Kyle and Friends, where we do long form interviews with 1496 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,439 Speaker 1: people like Nom Chomsky, Cornell West, and Glenn Greenwald. You 1497 01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,920 Speaker 1: can listen on any podcast platform, or you can subscribe 1498 01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,160 Speaker 1: over on substack to get the video a day early. 1499 01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:34,880 Speaker 1: We're going to stop bugging you now enjoy, Marshall, what 1500 01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,240 Speaker 1: are you taking a look at? Yeah, I, along with 1501 01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:41,679 Speaker 1: the rest of America, am obsessed with the Elizabeth Holmes. 1502 01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:45,280 Speaker 1: They're no story. I loved Bad Blood. It's on our 1503 01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,439 Speaker 1: audible account. John Kerry with the Wilson Journal really get reporting, 1504 01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,559 Speaker 1: really compelling story. There's a movie that's coming out all 1505 01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,120 Speaker 1: the different parts. But what I really want to focus 1506 01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:56,800 Speaker 1: on today, especially as a trial goes on, is the 1507 01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,200 Speaker 1: broader narrative of what it says about America and even 1508 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,320 Speaker 1: the technology industry, because the number one thing that if 1509 01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,120 Speaker 1: you talk to anyone is silicon variable Elizabeth Holmes, and 1510 01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,120 Speaker 1: they would say whoa, whoa, whoa that's not on us. 1511 01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:11,599 Speaker 1: She was not really funded by traditional adventure capital, traditional 1512 01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,599 Speaker 1: health care wasn't engaged in her. The only vcs who 1513 01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,000 Speaker 1: actually put money into the company were actually people who 1514 01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:22,439 Speaker 1: she personally knew through familial connections. So from that perspective, 1515 01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:25,240 Speaker 1: it's not quite clear that the story of fair Nose 1516 01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:29,200 Speaker 1: is really a story about Silicon Valley. Rather, I think 1517 01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:33,439 Speaker 1: it's a story about the American political and foreign policy 1518 01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:37,400 Speaker 1: establishment that in a weird way intersects with the conversation 1519 01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:39,840 Speaker 1: that we were just having around Afghanistan. Because if you 1520 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:42,640 Speaker 1: actually look at the board of Fair Notes and the 1521 01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,040 Speaker 1: folks who were involved, it's it's actually a little incredible. 1522 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:46,960 Speaker 1: It actually shows that there's a world where those with 1523 01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,760 Speaker 1: homes should have become a politician and not tried her 1524 01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,320 Speaker 1: hand at launching a massive startup because she had multiple 1525 01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:56,599 Speaker 1: secretaries of state. We have a graphic of that. Actually, 1526 01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:58,200 Speaker 1: let's put it up there on the screen. Yeah, this 1527 01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,040 Speaker 1: list is this list is incredible. We have George Schultz, 1528 01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:06,000 Speaker 1: who famously smirched his legacy when he turned against his grandson, 1529 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:09,519 Speaker 1: who was a was He passed away recently, so rested peace, 1530 01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,240 Speaker 1: of course, but it was a really terrible way to 1531 01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:15,200 Speaker 1: end his legacy. You had General Jim madd Dog Maddis, 1532 01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:19,439 Speaker 1: you had Henry Kissinger, you had all these people who 1533 01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:21,360 Speaker 1: went all in on this company, and you have to 1534 01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,439 Speaker 1: ask yourself, why were these the people who wanted to 1535 01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,439 Speaker 1: have on your board? Why was this the way this 1536 01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:29,040 Speaker 1: actually went down. The part that's actually were fascinating too 1537 01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,880 Speaker 1: is the interplay with the war in Afghanistan. The reason 1538 01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,600 Speaker 1: why James Maddis was a part of all this is 1539 01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,639 Speaker 1: because she met with him back when he was still 1540 01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,360 Speaker 1: in the military. Because the idea of part of her 1541 01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:41,519 Speaker 1: pitch and insteaded up being part of what's FRAUDU went 1542 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,720 Speaker 1: about their nose was we are going to use this 1543 01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:47,880 Speaker 1: blood testing device on the battlefield. I remember in the 1544 01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,679 Speaker 1: documentary about the actual what went down there was literally 1545 01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:56,400 Speaker 1: she had a flag that had supposedly flown in Afghanistan. 1546 01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,280 Speaker 1: It was an American battle flag in her actual office. 1547 01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,280 Speaker 1: So there was this perfect tie between the foreign policy, 1548 01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,760 Speaker 1: established military establishment, all these different people and what just 1549 01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:10,000 Speaker 1: really I hate to say grinds my gears, but actually 1550 01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,479 Speaker 1: grinds my gears is this is really the closing era. 1551 01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:17,519 Speaker 1: I think of a time when the elite of this 1552 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:22,439 Speaker 1: country had real credibility to spend where you could say, listen, 1553 01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:24,720 Speaker 1: I was Secretary of State, so you want me on 1554 01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:27,880 Speaker 1: my politically neutral board. Or I was a general of 1555 01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,880 Speaker 1: the apolitical military and I could engage on the board. 1556 01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:34,840 Speaker 1: It really was the closing period for this very specific moment, 1557 01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,120 Speaker 1: and I think, luckily enough, we won't be doing these 1558 01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,599 Speaker 1: types of things moving forward. I don't think people would say, oh, wow, 1559 01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,840 Speaker 1: you know Mike Pompeo is on my board. That's a 1560 01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:47,120 Speaker 1: really great thing. Or hey, this politician is a board, 1561 01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:49,960 Speaker 1: Anthony Lincoln. He may do some consulting work, which I 1562 01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,000 Speaker 1: largely have no problem with, but this is not going 1563 01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:55,160 Speaker 1: to be the scenario where there's any credibility here. And 1564 01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:58,120 Speaker 1: I think the last part that I'm always really just 1565 01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:02,519 Speaker 1: thinking about here is that you had this scenario where 1566 01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:08,439 Speaker 1: this set of people was so obsessed with gaining into 1567 01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:10,680 Speaker 1: something that's seedmed to be moving forward technology, but it 1568 01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:14,960 Speaker 1: was really susceptible to a specific pitch from a very 1569 01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,120 Speaker 1: specific founder. This was well, she dresses like Steve Jobs, 1570 01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,639 Speaker 1: she looks a little different, she plays masculine and plays 1571 01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,040 Speaker 1: the boys. This is very much a artifact of that 1572 01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:28,920 Speaker 1: real quick lean in Sheryl Sandberg twenty thirteen era. And 1573 01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,200 Speaker 1: something that you've seen discussed in our reporting on we 1574 01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,439 Speaker 1: work in all these other country companies and Silicon Valley 1575 01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:36,400 Speaker 1: is that this twenty tenth period is really about the 1576 01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:39,479 Speaker 1: cult of the founder, and that quisque goes too far sometimes. 1577 01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,439 Speaker 1: I think Jeff Bezos, regardless of how you think about 1578 01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,800 Speaker 1: him as a political actor, was really really essential when 1579 01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:48,519 Speaker 1: it came to the success of Amazon. You know, Ewon Musk. 1580 01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,120 Speaker 1: Everything he's done has been very key to this Mark 1581 01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,320 Speaker 1: Zuckerberg say they thing of Facebook. But with the success 1582 01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,840 Speaker 1: of those companies, it really left a moment of vulnerability 1583 01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,479 Speaker 1: where you could have people like Adam Newman with home 1584 01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,560 Speaker 1: state of themselves. Hey, I'm going to design myself in 1585 01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:07,439 Speaker 1: a certain way. I will be able to con billions 1586 01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,000 Speaker 1: of dollars of capital and take honestly well meaning but 1587 01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:15,960 Speaker 1: ninety year old plus people like former Secretary Sector Assaults 1588 01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,120 Speaker 1: on for a ride there. And it's just really importantly 1589 01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,280 Speaker 1: put it close to this because you know, I'm not 1590 01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,080 Speaker 1: going to name names here, but I was at a 1591 01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,960 Speaker 1: dinner recently where I actually very depressedly learned that former 1592 01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:32,599 Speaker 1: pliticals in the Trump administration are go around going around 1593 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,720 Speaker 1: trying to find jobs at defense tech companies, because as 1594 01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,200 Speaker 1: we are talking about moving past this Afghanistan era, we're 1595 01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:40,320 Speaker 1: obviously moving to a point where this great power competition, 1596 01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,519 Speaker 1: and they're just saying, Hey, let's get in on the 1597 01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:44,160 Speaker 1: next thing. And I hope that we can just really 1598 01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:46,479 Speaker 1: just draw a line there and say that if we 1599 01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:48,519 Speaker 1: could agree with this class of people doesn't know what 1600 01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:50,519 Speaker 1: it's doing about Afghanistan. They don't know what they're doing 1601 01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,720 Speaker 1: when it comes to the technology investment. It's a you know, 1602 01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,880 Speaker 1: it's an interesting point they make there, because it's true, 1603 01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:58,120 Speaker 1: you know, George Saltz and Kissinger and Maddis and the 1604 01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,280 Speaker 1: rest of these people. Former head of the former director 1605 01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:04,200 Speaker 1: of the CDC let that sink in. Former director of 1606 01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:08,639 Speaker 1: the CDC was on the board of a fake blood company. 1607 01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,679 Speaker 1: Same thing. Former AU Secretary of Defense William Perry, former 1608 01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:17,919 Speaker 1: retired US Navy Gary ruffhead, former US two former US senators, 1609 01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:21,360 Speaker 1: the former CEO of Wells Fargo. This is the who's 1610 01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:27,320 Speaker 1: who financial crisis of the Afghanistan, of the entire post 1611 01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,880 Speaker 1: war international order. It's like, what does that tell you 1612 01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:33,880 Speaker 1: about what exactly these people are and the judgment that 1613 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,640 Speaker 1: they have about people not a good look. Right, it 1614 01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,280 Speaker 1: really isn't if they are willing, if they if all 1615 01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:43,360 Speaker 1: it takes is a charismatic woman with a fake deep 1616 01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:46,960 Speaker 1: voice and a sweatshirt on or sorry, a sweater on 1617 01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:51,760 Speaker 1: to fool you into one of the most improbable devices 1618 01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:56,040 Speaker 1: ever conceived, which was clearly fake and which they clearly 1619 01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,280 Speaker 1: did not do their diligence on. I mean, the evidence 1620 01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,800 Speaker 1: for there not working was there in like the first 1621 01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,160 Speaker 1: six months. Her advisor told her that this is the 1622 01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,000 Speaker 1: point her She talked to her advisor at Stanford. She said, 1623 01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,720 Speaker 1: this doesn't work. Yeah, when she was like nineteen, right, yeah, 1624 01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:12,479 Speaker 1: it was like, this isn't. This isn't because I think 1625 01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,719 Speaker 1: it's oftentimes easy to not even make excuses because sometimes 1626 01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:19,160 Speaker 1: startups and soilken valid is really effing hard. Yeah, but 1627 01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,200 Speaker 1: like this was actually a case. And once again, this 1628 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:23,760 Speaker 1: is why traditional venture capital was past, this is why 1629 01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,320 Speaker 1: traditional people in medicine tasta as hell. But once again 1630 01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:28,120 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger is thinking, hey, you know, I'd love to 1631 01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:29,800 Speaker 1: get a nice little feather in my cap and being 1632 01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:33,040 Speaker 1: a tech investor. That's cool. No, but that's the problem. 1633 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,160 Speaker 1: And then that the fact that they fell for this 1634 01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:40,439 Speaker 1: so clearly, just says so much to me about these people. 1635 01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:42,519 Speaker 1: And it really is one of these things where you 1636 01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,559 Speaker 1: have to look at the mindset that they brought to 1637 01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:48,440 Speaker 1: whenever they were developing this post war system in Afghanistan 1638 01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,639 Speaker 1: as exactly the same thing. It's about wishful thinking, it's 1639 01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:54,880 Speaker 1: about having way too much hubris about what you actually know. 1640 01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:58,320 Speaker 1: It's about not doing your real due diligence whenever it comes, 1641 01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:02,040 Speaker 1: and it leads to a total and complete disaster and 1642 01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:04,280 Speaker 1: all of the George Schultz is the only one who 1643 01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:07,160 Speaker 1: took real reputational damage after thearraon nose and that's because 1644 01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,840 Speaker 1: he literally threw his own grandson under the bus, which 1645 01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:13,400 Speaker 1: is freaking crazy. If you guys haven't haven't gone, and 1646 01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:16,160 Speaker 1: you hadn't read Bad Blood by John carry you or 1647 01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:19,080 Speaker 1: listen to what is It The Dropout? I think yes, 1648 01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:22,000 Speaker 1: which is ABC great podcast and I highly recommend them. 1649 01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:24,720 Speaker 1: Which is that when you look at this and you 1650 01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:28,400 Speaker 1: see how clearly that the whole thing was completely fake 1651 01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:32,360 Speaker 1: from the beginning, it just makes it even more astounding 1652 01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:35,959 Speaker 1: the level of con artistry that was able to spiral 1653 01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:38,280 Speaker 1: up to the top. Not only did she fake her 1654 01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:43,080 Speaker 1: way into becoming a billionaire. She faked these people using 1655 01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:46,480 Speaker 1: their credibility to make it so that it was undeniable 1656 01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,800 Speaker 1: that she could make fake deals with Walgreens. And every 1657 01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,040 Speaker 1: time I cover this, I want to make sure that 1658 01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:55,679 Speaker 1: we actually highlight who some of the real victims are. 1659 01:22:56,120 --> 01:23:00,400 Speaker 1: The victims are the people who used Barno's blood kits 1660 01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,559 Speaker 1: and got bad medical diagnoses and then had all sorts 1661 01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:07,120 Speaker 1: of crit took the wrong drugs they were supposed to. 1662 01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:12,439 Speaker 1: It's not just the financial right terrible can't like cancer 1663 01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,840 Speaker 1: or they diabetes whatever. Those are the people I think 1664 01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:21,080 Speaker 1: about the most and who Elizabeth Holmes really hurt allegedly 1665 01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:23,799 Speaker 1: for her lawyers. Anyway, we have a great guest standing 1666 01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:26,439 Speaker 1: by vivike Ramaswami is the author of Woke Inc. Let's 1667 01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:29,280 Speaker 1: get to it. Joining us now is vivike Ramaswami with 1668 01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:32,559 Speaker 1: his new book, Woke Inc. So let's put that beautiful 1669 01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:34,680 Speaker 1: graphic that we had made for the book there up 1670 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:38,120 Speaker 1: on the screen. And this book, Woke Ink, debuted at 1671 01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:41,160 Speaker 1: number two on the New York Times bestseller list. Marshall 1672 01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:43,920 Speaker 1: and I actually interviewed viveke over at our podcast The 1673 01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,479 Speaker 1: Realignment and we wanted to make sure that we've brought 1674 01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:49,000 Speaker 1: a little bit of this to the overall audience here. 1675 01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:50,840 Speaker 1: So Vivike, welcome to the show. It's really good to 1676 01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,920 Speaker 1: see you. Good to see you. Yeah. So let's get 1677 01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,840 Speaker 1: into exactly what this book is all about. Why did 1678 01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:00,680 Speaker 1: you decide to write it, What exactly happened in the 1679 01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:02,960 Speaker 1: overall corporate sphere that made you want to do it, 1680 01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:04,960 Speaker 1: And maybe give the audience a little bit of background 1681 01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,880 Speaker 1: on who you are. Yeah, I'll give you two minutes 1682 01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,160 Speaker 1: of background. My parents probably like years came over from 1683 01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:12,639 Speaker 1: India over forty years ago. They didn't come with much 1684 01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:15,040 Speaker 1: money to Southwest Ohio, where I was born, but they 1685 01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,680 Speaker 1: did come with an education. That's what I got. And 1686 01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:20,400 Speaker 1: though I wasn't born into elite America, I have lived 1687 01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:22,839 Speaker 1: it for the last fifteen years. I went to Harvard, 1688 01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:25,280 Speaker 1: graduated at the top of my class in molecular biology 1689 01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,439 Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, went to Yale Law School. 1690 01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:29,519 Speaker 1: Along the way, I was at a hedge fund for 1691 01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:32,320 Speaker 1: seven years in New York as a biotech investor. I 1692 01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,519 Speaker 1: actually had it right before I started my company. I 1693 01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:37,719 Speaker 1: actually had a failed career as a stand up comedian 1694 01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,559 Speaker 1: where I learned the lesson of any time something really 1695 01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,320 Speaker 1: annoys you, you write it down in a notebook. Turned 1696 01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:45,479 Speaker 1: out it didn't serve me well in stand up comedy 1697 01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:47,640 Speaker 1: in New York, it did serve me well on the 1698 01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:49,720 Speaker 1: job as an investor, where I wrote down all the 1699 01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,200 Speaker 1: things that annoyed me about pharma and instead started a 1700 01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:55,040 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical company based on what I wrote down in that notebook. 1701 01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:57,280 Speaker 1: So I did that for about seven years, got a 1702 01:24:57,360 --> 01:24:59,880 Speaker 1: number of medicines, developed, a couple of which I'm proud 1703 01:24:59,880 --> 01:25:02,599 Speaker 1: to say or with patients today as FDA approved products. 1704 01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:04,719 Speaker 1: The one I'm most probably proud of is a drug 1705 01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,640 Speaker 1: for prostate cancer. But I kept jotting down things that 1706 01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:09,559 Speaker 1: annoyed me, and one of the things that started to 1707 01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:15,160 Speaker 1: really annoy me was the inauthentic, inauthentic proclamations made by 1708 01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,600 Speaker 1: my peers in business and the investment world, fellow CEOs 1709 01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,240 Speaker 1: that really reached a fever pitch in twenty nineteen and 1710 01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:23,759 Speaker 1: then hit an even higher fever pitch in twenty twenty, 1711 01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:25,760 Speaker 1: and so I authored an outbed in The Wall Street 1712 01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,960 Speaker 1: Journal arguing that I thought that actually stakeholder capitalism represented 1713 01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:33,000 Speaker 1: a threat to the integrity of democracy itself. It was 1714 01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,320 Speaker 1: supposed to be a one and done. Instead, an agent 1715 01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:37,320 Speaker 1: approached me told me to blow it out into a book. 1716 01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:40,360 Speaker 1: That's what I did. Eventually that became Woke Inc. A 1717 01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:42,640 Speaker 1: year and a half later. But along the way, I 1718 01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:45,840 Speaker 1: started writing and speaking out about subjects that were increasingly 1719 01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,160 Speaker 1: controversial that I actually had to step down as CEO 1720 01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:50,879 Speaker 1: of my company in order to speak with total candor 1721 01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:52,840 Speaker 1: as a citizen. And what I do in the book 1722 01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:55,160 Speaker 1: is I reveal what I see as the defining scam 1723 01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:58,599 Speaker 1: of our century, where corporate elites in this country pretend 1724 01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,320 Speaker 1: like they care about something other than profit and power, 1725 01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,000 Speaker 1: precisely to gain more of each of them. And I 1726 01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:07,080 Speaker 1: think that new trend is dividing our country to a 1727 01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:10,920 Speaker 1: breaking point and represents an existential threat to American democracy 1728 01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,800 Speaker 1: because it demands that a small group of investors and 1729 01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:17,880 Speaker 1: CEOs determine what's important to us on questions from racial 1730 01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:22,240 Speaker 1: justice to environmental change, rather than the democracy at large, 1731 01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:24,080 Speaker 1: which is I think the premise on which our country 1732 01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:25,639 Speaker 1: was born. So that's what the book's about, and I'm 1733 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,800 Speaker 1: happy to talk more about it. Sure you have a 1734 01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:31,000 Speaker 1: big congratulations on number two. Now I'm going to do 1735 01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:34,759 Speaker 1: my best crystal impression here and just ask the obvious 1736 01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:37,240 Speaker 1: question that everyone on the left of this audience is asking, 1737 01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,400 Speaker 1: which is what is here for us? Right? Like, the 1738 01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:43,240 Speaker 1: word woke is in the title once again number two, 1739 01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:45,080 Speaker 1: So that's really resonated of people. What I'm guessing that's 1740 01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,479 Speaker 1: more of a right leaning audience. Why should people who 1741 01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:49,120 Speaker 1: are to the center and the left end of the 1742 01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:53,880 Speaker 1: political spectrum think that there is something useful for them here? Yeah? Sure, 1743 01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:55,559 Speaker 1: So the first thing I should say is, I'm not 1744 01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:57,879 Speaker 1: sure actually a lot of that was entirely driven my consertives. 1745 01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:00,160 Speaker 1: I don't know for sure. I've been grateful actually a 1746 01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:03,040 Speaker 1: lot of warm reception I've receeen from some thoughtful minds 1747 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:05,040 Speaker 1: on the left as well. This was intended as a 1748 01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:06,960 Speaker 1: book both for the left and for the right. And 1749 01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:10,360 Speaker 1: here's why. I think both sides need to be skeptical 1750 01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:12,799 Speaker 1: of corporate overreach. And the good thing about the left 1751 01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:15,479 Speaker 1: is that that's actually been part of the left since 1752 01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,200 Speaker 1: the last twenty years, skepticism of corporate power. If you're 1753 01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:22,280 Speaker 1: on the left, you're skeptical of Citizens United because it 1754 01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:27,200 Speaker 1: permits corporations to influence elections through electoral contributions. Well, I 1755 01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:31,320 Speaker 1: think that stakeholder capitalism is actually citizens united on steroids. 1756 01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:34,120 Speaker 1: It just doesn't permit companies to write a few checks 1757 01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:37,679 Speaker 1: to influence an election. It demands that corporations use every 1758 01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,280 Speaker 1: resource in their arsenal to be able to play a 1759 01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,960 Speaker 1: disproportionate role in our public debate about the most important 1760 01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:46,720 Speaker 1: questions that ought to be settled through our democracy. And 1761 01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:48,639 Speaker 1: to me, whether you're on the left or the right, 1762 01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:52,160 Speaker 1: that is not America. That is a corporatetocracy, not a democracy. 1763 01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:55,920 Speaker 1: And while corporations may be pushing progressive values today, once 1764 01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:59,080 Speaker 1: they become vectors to push values, they become vectors to 1765 01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:01,760 Speaker 1: push anyone's values. And I think today we're actually even 1766 01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,639 Speaker 1: seeing that behind closed doors in how they are pushing, 1767 01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,560 Speaker 1: for example, the values of the Communist Party of China 1768 01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:09,800 Speaker 1: right here in the United States, again in a way 1769 01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:12,800 Speaker 1: that should threaten both liberals and conservatives. And so what 1770 01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:15,400 Speaker 1: I describe in the book is this arranged marriage today 1771 01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,000 Speaker 1: between big business and a certain wing of the progressive left, 1772 01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:22,160 Speaker 1: what we could call the progressive identity politics focused left. 1773 01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,880 Speaker 1: Yet what we see is that both liberals and conservatives 1774 01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:29,160 Speaker 1: are duped into submission because of their own philosophies. Conservatives 1775 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:31,800 Speaker 1: are actually duped into submission because their inner conscience tells 1776 01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,759 Speaker 1: them that the free market can do no wrong without 1777 01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:38,280 Speaker 1: recognizing that the free market that they idealize doesn't actually 1778 01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:40,200 Speaker 1: exist today. I tell a lot of stories in the 1779 01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,479 Speaker 1: book about how companies are indirectly acting as agents of 1780 01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:45,920 Speaker 1: the state in ways that you don't see. But liberals 1781 01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:48,040 Speaker 1: are duped into submission because many of them love the 1782 01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:51,439 Speaker 1: causes that these companies happen to be pushing today, but 1783 01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,559 Speaker 1: they could be pushing different causes tomorrow. And the final 1784 01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:57,200 Speaker 1: story I'll say that I think is an important distinction 1785 01:28:57,320 --> 01:28:59,800 Speaker 1: for the left in this book is a distinction between 1786 01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:02,000 Speaker 1: w what I think of as the burning left and 1787 01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:05,400 Speaker 1: the squad left, where I think what corporate America actually 1788 01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:07,840 Speaker 1: managed to do was to use the two thousand and 1789 01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,880 Speaker 1: eight financial crisis in the aftermath as an opportunity to 1790 01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,679 Speaker 1: recover their impression in the minds of the public by 1791 01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:17,559 Speaker 1: marrying the new progressive identity politics focus left the part 1792 01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,719 Speaker 1: of the left that says racial injustice is the problem, 1793 01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:22,240 Speaker 1: and put the part of Occupy Wall Street that said 1794 01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:24,640 Speaker 1: economic injustice was the real problem. What they did is 1795 01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:26,840 Speaker 1: they were able to put that up for adoption. That 1796 01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,320 Speaker 1: wing of the left is now stale, it's now neutered. 1797 01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:31,920 Speaker 1: As big business has taken up the cause of racial 1798 01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:36,120 Speaker 1: injustice and fixing misogyny and bigotry, they've ultimately abandoned the 1799 01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:40,360 Speaker 1: project of actually focusing on economic empowerment and fixing economic injustice, 1800 01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:42,320 Speaker 1: which is something that I think the burning left and 1801 01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:44,680 Speaker 1: even a lot of the classical left overall ought to 1802 01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:46,320 Speaker 1: worry about. So that's a big part of what's in 1803 01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:48,479 Speaker 1: the book. Deivik. One of the things I respect the 1804 01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:50,559 Speaker 1: most about your work is that you don't You're not 1805 01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,559 Speaker 1: just you know, barking about woke politics or whatever. You're 1806 01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,479 Speaker 1: actually talking about the structural problems. You use the word 1807 01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:00,880 Speaker 1: stakeholder capitalism. Can you explain to people what that is? 1808 01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:02,960 Speaker 1: And then, more importantly what you get to in the book, 1809 01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,240 Speaker 1: how can you fix it? Like, what are the corporate 1810 01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:08,400 Speaker 1: fixes that we can have? Yeah? Sure, so. Stakeholder capitalism 1811 01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:11,840 Speaker 1: refers to the idea that corporations are bound to serve 1812 01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:16,400 Speaker 1: not just their shareholders, but also their stakeholders, which include 1813 01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:21,240 Speaker 1: basically all stakeholders in society, workers, disempowered minority groups, even 1814 01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:24,080 Speaker 1: the climate is now considered a stakeholder by many corporations, 1815 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:26,559 Speaker 1: and agree or not that's what the philosophy says. There's 1816 01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:29,080 Speaker 1: actually something really coherent about it, too, And I expose 1817 01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:31,639 Speaker 1: what I view as the strongest case for stakeholder capitalism 1818 01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:35,120 Speaker 1: in the book, which is that corporations couldn't have existed 1819 01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:39,240 Speaker 1: even in society, without society giving corporations great gifts like 1820 01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:41,880 Speaker 1: limited liability, the idea that if you're a shareholder of 1821 01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:45,040 Speaker 1: a corporation, you are not liable for what that corporation does. 1822 01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:47,320 Speaker 1: If you think about that, that's an extraordinary gift that 1823 01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:51,080 Speaker 1: ordinary people don't enjoy in their everyday lives. Corporate shareholders do. 1824 01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:54,639 Speaker 1: And so what stakeholder capitalists argue is that in return 1825 01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:58,200 Speaker 1: for that grand bargain, you effectively expect that society gave 1826 01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:00,840 Speaker 1: corporations and their shareholders all these great gifts. All we're 1827 01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,360 Speaker 1: asking is that you take some societal interests into account 1828 01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:05,960 Speaker 1: in return. It sounds pretty reasonable. What I land in 1829 01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:08,200 Speaker 1: the book is actually a more precise view of the 1830 01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:10,280 Speaker 1: history of corporate law in this country that I think 1831 01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:13,479 Speaker 1: was long misunderstood, even misunderstood, if I may say, by 1832 01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:17,879 Speaker 1: Milton Friedman himself, the first doged opponent of stakeholder capitalism 1833 01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:20,479 Speaker 1: fifty years ago. And what Milton Friedman missed is that 1834 01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,680 Speaker 1: actually he never responded to that criticism. What I say is, 1835 01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:26,920 Speaker 1: there actually is an obligation that corporations and their shareholders 1836 01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:29,360 Speaker 1: have to society, but it's a different one. It is 1837 01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:32,040 Speaker 1: to stay in their lane and not to use their 1838 01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,200 Speaker 1: undue power that they gain from gifts like limited liability 1839 01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:38,640 Speaker 1: to exercise power outside the market in other spheres of 1840 01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:41,880 Speaker 1: our lives, including in our democratic politics. And that's why 1841 01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:44,960 Speaker 1: corporate law mandates that directors of boards stay in their 1842 01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:48,439 Speaker 1: lanes and only maximize profits for shareholders, not just to 1843 01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:51,280 Speaker 1: help those shareholders, but to protect the rest of society 1844 01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:53,640 Speaker 1: from corporate overreach. And so that's with the heart of 1845 01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,320 Speaker 1: the debate about stakeholder capitalism is all about. It's also 1846 01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:57,720 Speaker 1: something I've tried to do in the book is to 1847 01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:00,840 Speaker 1: really offer the best argument both for stake or capitalism 1848 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,479 Speaker 1: as well as for the woke movement. I know that 1849 01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:07,000 Speaker 1: word has been weaponized recently and carries some connotations that 1850 01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,360 Speaker 1: have made it popular on the right and suddenly unpopular 1851 01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:12,519 Speaker 1: on the left. I think that woke culture posits a 1852 01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:14,719 Speaker 1: worldview that we ought to talk about in the open, 1853 01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:18,320 Speaker 1: giving its fairest shake, saying that actually, the social universe 1854 01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:22,679 Speaker 1: is governed by certain invisible power structures that disempower certain 1855 01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:26,080 Speaker 1: people and empower others and result in injustices that we 1856 01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:28,679 Speaker 1: need to talk about by waking up to what those 1857 01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:31,799 Speaker 1: previously invisible power structures were. I think that's a worldview 1858 01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:33,280 Speaker 1: that a lot of people share. I think it's a 1859 01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:37,280 Speaker 1: worldview that has its origins in classical Marxism. And again 1860 01:32:37,320 --> 01:32:39,479 Speaker 1: I don't use that as a pejorative. I actually think 1861 01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:42,519 Speaker 1: Marxism is an intellectually rich mode of inquiry that we 1862 01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,240 Speaker 1: ought to engage with in the present day. Now. I 1863 01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:48,080 Speaker 1: ultimately reject that narrative in part because I think it 1864 01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:50,840 Speaker 1: divides us, and I think what's happened right now in 1865 01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:54,280 Speaker 1: corporate America is a cynical marriage between that new woke 1866 01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,800 Speaker 1: philosophy and corporate America, where actually the stewards of that 1867 01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:01,639 Speaker 1: philosophy are themselves actually all leaving the very values they're 1868 01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:04,600 Speaker 1: advancing hanging out to dry. I tell an example of 1869 01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:08,200 Speaker 1: how State Street built a statue called Fearless Girl to 1870 01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:11,439 Speaker 1: represent feminism standing up against the Wall Street bull turns 1871 01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:13,240 Speaker 1: out they were actually just doing it at a time 1872 01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:16,200 Speaker 1: that their female employees were complaining that they weren't being 1873 01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:18,240 Speaker 1: paid as much as their male colleagues. And as I 1874 01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:20,240 Speaker 1: tell them the book, of course, what does the firm 1875 01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:22,519 Speaker 1: do when a female employee says she's not being paid 1876 01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:24,519 Speaker 1: enough as much as their male colleagues. They do the 1877 01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:26,880 Speaker 1: thing you'd expect. They built her a statue. And there's 1878 01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:28,880 Speaker 1: some funny further layers to the story I tell where 1879 01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:32,280 Speaker 1: they even sue the statues creator for creating three unauthorized 1880 01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:35,600 Speaker 1: reproductions of that statue later on. So this is the 1881 01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:37,240 Speaker 1: kind of stories that I tell in the book that 1882 01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:40,280 Speaker 1: reveal how both sides are really harmed by this cynical arrangement. 1883 01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:45,320 Speaker 1: My last question within the Crystal Left channeling is basically, 1884 01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:50,000 Speaker 1: it's interesting how you're combining climate change stuff with traditional 1885 01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:51,920 Speaker 1: woke critiques as something that's the matter at the system, 1886 01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:55,080 Speaker 1: Because if I'm thinking about someone who thinks that once again, 1887 01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:57,600 Speaker 1: we live in a era of a climate emergency and 1888 01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:00,720 Speaker 1: there's always big problems. Government is utterly adlocked. Right now, 1889 01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:02,479 Speaker 1: nothing is happening, We're not going to see any big 1890 01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:04,640 Speaker 1: climate deal in the US, and China. So one of 1891 01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,360 Speaker 1: the only actual means that a lot of people on 1892 01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:10,800 Speaker 1: the left sea of exercising power or forward movement is 1893 01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:14,719 Speaker 1: through corporate bohemos which aren't encumbered by gridlock in Washington, 1894 01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,240 Speaker 1: d C. So what do you say to that argument? Yeah, well, 1895 01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:19,880 Speaker 1: I say a couple of things. First, on the merits, 1896 01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:21,640 Speaker 1: which I don't want to touch on a ton here 1897 01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:23,800 Speaker 1: because there are even better people than I who can 1898 01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:26,040 Speaker 1: comment on the merits of where we stand in our 1899 01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:30,120 Speaker 1: progress towards achieving environmental change, environmental benefits that have nothing 1900 01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:32,519 Speaker 1: to do with climate change, as well as environmental benefits 1901 01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:35,360 Speaker 1: that could drive benefits in staving off climate change. I 1902 01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:37,600 Speaker 1: think another good book that came out pretty recently was 1903 01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:40,920 Speaker 1: Steve Coonan's book Unsettled, which I think everyone ought to read. 1904 01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:43,040 Speaker 1: As a side note, he was an executive from someone 1905 01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:45,880 Speaker 1: in the Obama administration, scientist well trained in the field. 1906 01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:48,800 Speaker 1: Worth a read. Now. I think that the problem with 1907 01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:50,439 Speaker 1: corporate America getting in on the act is they have 1908 01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,080 Speaker 1: no incentives to actually solve the underlying problem. They have 1909 01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:56,200 Speaker 1: every incentive to signal their virtue along the way. If 1910 01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:58,160 Speaker 1: you look at the top polluting cities in the world, 1911 01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:00,960 Speaker 1: in terms of not only not only pollution in general, 1912 01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:04,320 Speaker 1: but also contributions to the car carbon footprint in a 1913 01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:07,519 Speaker 1: way that contributes allegedly climate change. Actually, almost all of 1914 01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:09,439 Speaker 1: them are not in the United States, and so I 1915 01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:11,680 Speaker 1: think that many corporations do nothing to be able to 1916 01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:15,040 Speaker 1: change their behavior abroad while pretending to signal their virtue 1917 01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:17,160 Speaker 1: here at home. And one of the principles I advanced 1918 01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,720 Speaker 1: in the book, both with respect to climate change, the 1919 01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:22,400 Speaker 1: climate change oriented behavior of corporations, as well as their 1920 01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:25,040 Speaker 1: behaviors on causes that relate to racial justice or conceptions 1921 01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:27,680 Speaker 1: of a diversity, is that once as a corporation you 1922 01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:31,599 Speaker 1: have earned a reputation for goodness, at some point your 1923 01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:36,519 Speaker 1: interest becomes in preserving the appearance of pursuing virtue, rather 1924 01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,360 Speaker 1: than actually being a steward of virtue itself. And I 1925 01:35:39,360 --> 01:35:40,800 Speaker 1: think it is a lot easier to appear to be 1926 01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:43,599 Speaker 1: virtuous than it is to be virtuous. And I think 1927 01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:47,280 Speaker 1: that inherently the nature of what a corporation is makes 1928 01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:50,680 Speaker 1: it a particularly bad steward. We cannot trust a corporation 1929 01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,519 Speaker 1: to do anything other than cultivate the appearance of goodness 1930 01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:56,599 Speaker 1: when they're ultimately rewarded for that appearance, and I think 1931 01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,599 Speaker 1: that increasingly what we're seeing is a lot of daylight 1932 01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:01,720 Speaker 1: between what it means to appear to be good and 1933 01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:04,559 Speaker 1: what it actually means to be good. We can even 1934 01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:06,680 Speaker 1: debate what our conceptions of the good are. I think 1935 01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:08,479 Speaker 1: that's what the right and the left off and differ on. 1936 01:36:08,680 --> 01:36:10,680 Speaker 1: But even if you had a steady conception of what 1937 01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:13,080 Speaker 1: the good is, the main case I'm making the book 1938 01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:15,760 Speaker 1: is that inherently the nature of what a corporation is 1939 01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:18,080 Speaker 1: means we can't trust a corporation to be a steward 1940 01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:19,880 Speaker 1: of that. If we do, all we're going to solve 1941 01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:22,800 Speaker 1: for is actually optimizing for the corporation appearing to be 1942 01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:24,680 Speaker 1: a steward of the good. That's exactly what we've done 1943 01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,400 Speaker 1: in recent years. Excellent point, Vivik. We really appreciate you 1944 01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:29,920 Speaker 1: joining us here on Breaking Points. We'll have a link 1945 01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:31,840 Speaker 1: down there and description for everybody to buy the book. 1946 01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:34,840 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, We appreciate it. Thanks for having me, 1947 01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:38,040 Speaker 1: thanks for coming, Thanks everybody for watching Marshall, thank you 1948 01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:40,480 Speaker 1: for stepping in. He's going to be back on Tuesday. 1949 01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:43,680 Speaker 1: Remember we were taking no show on Labor Day. We 1950 01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:46,160 Speaker 1: have really enjoyed being here with you guys today. If 1951 01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:48,360 Speaker 1: you can support us, the supercast link is right there 1952 01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:51,200 Speaker 1: town in the description. We really appreciate it. It makes 1953 01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:53,320 Speaker 1: it enables us to bring you all of the stories 1954 01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:55,639 Speaker 1: for the team that we have here and more. And 1955 01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:57,720 Speaker 1: it really is a privilege every single day to be 1956 01:36:57,720 --> 01:36:59,920 Speaker 1: able to do this show. It's been three months to 1957 01:37:00,120 --> 01:37:04,080 Speaker 1: the day since we officially went independent announced it. Honestly 1958 01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:07,000 Speaker 1: can't even believe it. It's just been completely blown me away. 1959 01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:09,400 Speaker 1: I know Crystal feels exactly the same. So we appreciate 1960 01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:11,720 Speaker 1: your support so much and we will see you all. 1961 01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:14,360 Speaker 1: Oh go ahead, Yeah, and just one quick thing, I yeah, 1962 01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:16,320 Speaker 1: speaking for myself for we yes being here. But of 1963 01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:18,360 Speaker 1: course if you enjoyed with Soucker and I are up 1964 01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:21,719 Speaker 1: to go check out the Realignment podcast. We're on YouTube. 1965 01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:24,120 Speaker 1: We're about to Chris, We're about to cross fifty thousand. 1966 01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:26,439 Speaker 1: Let's get us there hopefully by the end of the weekend. 1967 01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:29,360 Speaker 1: But also we're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts. We have lots 1968 01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:31,519 Speaker 1: of great conversations like this. Correct would love for you 1969 01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:33,519 Speaker 1: how to check out what we're doing. One hundred percent. Okay, guys, 1970 01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:50,360 Speaker 1: we will see you all on Tuesday. Thanks for listening 1971 01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:52,280 Speaker 1: to the show. Guys, we really appreciate it. To help 1972 01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:54,360 Speaker 1: other people find the show, go ahead and leave us 1973 01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:57,400 Speaker 1: a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you 1974 01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:00,679 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Really helps other people find the show. 1975 01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:04,519 Speaker 1: As always special, thank you to Supercast for powering our 1976 01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:07,000 Speaker 1: premium membership. If you want to find out more, go 1977 01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:09,080 Speaker 1: to Crystalansager dot com