WEBVTT - Bonus: Tribal Thumb

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<v Speaker 1>Rip Current is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The views

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<v Speaker 1>and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect thirds of the host,

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<v Speaker 1>producers or parent company. Listener discretion is it fines.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a rip Current bonus episode.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't need to listen to follow the rip Current storyline,

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<v Speaker 3>but it provides more information, context, and analysis to enhance

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<v Speaker 3>the main podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Enjoy.

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<v Speaker 4>I want to start with a note about sources for

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<v Speaker 4>this bonus episode. Tribal Thumb was one of a number

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<v Speaker 4>of very small revolutionary groups in northern California in the

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen seventies. For the most part, they flew under the radar.

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<v Speaker 4>Because of this, there are not a lot of newspaper

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<v Speaker 4>or other media stories about Tribal Thumb or its leader,

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<v Speaker 4>Earl Satcher. There are some, though, chief among these is

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<v Speaker 4>a four part series.

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<v Speaker 2>Written by A.

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<v Speaker 4>Mili Cabral and Bill Wallace.

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<v Speaker 2>For the Berkeley Barb.

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<v Speaker 4>I was unable to track down either of the authors.

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<v Speaker 4>In that series, they raised the suspicion that Earl Satcher,

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<v Speaker 4>either knowingly or unknowingly, was aiding in co intel prose

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<v Speaker 4>campaign to disrupt revolutionary groups across the US and the

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<v Speaker 4>radical movement in general. I'll talk about those suspicions when

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<v Speaker 4>they come.

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<v Speaker 2>Up in the story.

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<v Speaker 4>One more note, I think, because some of these articles

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<v Speaker 4>were written well after the events they cover, there are

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<v Speaker 4>some contradictions and dates and even years in which things happened.

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<v Speaker 4>I've tried to work out the timeline from the totality

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<v Speaker 4>of the information available. Tribal Thumb was all but unknown

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<v Speaker 4>outside of revolutionary circles until they became the focus of

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<v Speaker 4>the investigation into the murder of Popeye Jackson. This incident

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<v Speaker 4>is covered in episodes nine to ten of Rip Current.

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<v Speaker 4>This murder began a period of activity that would end

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<v Speaker 4>roughly eighteen months later with Earl Satcher's death during a

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<v Speaker 4>shootout on a San Francisco street. Earl Satcher was born

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<v Speaker 4>in nineteen forty two. He apparently lived mostly in Long Beach, California,

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<v Speaker 4>where he began to accumulate a criminal record for auto

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<v Speaker 4>theft and armed robbery beginning when he was eighteen. By

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<v Speaker 4>the mid nineteen sixties, he'd become active in the Long

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<v Speaker 4>Beach Black Panthers and eventually rose to the rank of captain.

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<v Speaker 4>In nineteen sixty eight, Satcher was arrested for assaulting his

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<v Speaker 4>sister's boyfriend with a pistol. He was found guilty of

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<v Speaker 4>illegally possessing a firearm and spent three months in the

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<v Speaker 4>county jail before being released in January of sixty nine.

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<v Speaker 4>By October, according to an FBI letter, he was being

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<v Speaker 4>watched by law enforcement. Also in sixty nine, Sacher met

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<v Speaker 4>and joined forces with a white man named Benny Sargus. Sargus,

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<v Speaker 4>who was in his forties, was the physical opposite of

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<v Speaker 4>the powerful, imposing Satcher. Sargus was short and stocky, had

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<v Speaker 4>greasy hair and a scraggly beard and mustache. He claimed

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<v Speaker 4>to have been born into the mafia. The men hit

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<v Speaker 4>it off. They both liked guns, neither had qualms with

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<v Speaker 4>using violence. Satcher was back in prison in nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 4>for parole violations. During this stint, he asserted himself as

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<v Speaker 4>a black militant leader within a prison group called the

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<v Speaker 4>Alternative Group. He also corresponded with staff members of a

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<v Speaker 4>radical magazine called Vocations for Social Change. On March fifth,

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen seventy one, the Los Angeles Free Press published a

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<v Speaker 4>number of letters from inmates at San Quentin, including two

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<v Speaker 4>from Earl Satcher. Before and after a confrontation with a

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<v Speaker 4>white supremacist inmate that had been set up by guards

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<v Speaker 4>with the apparent intention of killing Sacher. Today, the fourteenth

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<v Speaker 4>of September, and tomorrow the fifteenth, I will be released

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<v Speaker 4>into the exercise tier with an inmate who just three

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<v Speaker 4>days ago was hurling human feces and urine at me

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<v Speaker 4>and other brothers here on max Row. I am to

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<v Speaker 4>proceed to the tier with this said prisoner, even though

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<v Speaker 4>I'm with the knowledge that officials have armed the said

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<v Speaker 4>inmate in an effort to perpetrate my death. I have

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<v Speaker 4>faith in my ability to defend myself, and I shall

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<v Speaker 4>do so fully. Four days later, he wrote another letter,

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<v Speaker 4>a summation of what happened on the exercise tier. At

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<v Speaker 4>approximately eight fifteen, Officer Horton, the day Officer on max Row,

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<v Speaker 4>approached my cell, unlocked it and ordered me to prepare

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<v Speaker 4>to come onto the tier to work as a porter

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<v Speaker 4>with inmate A, a racist Neo American Nazi. In an

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<v Speaker 4>attempt to integrate max Row, Officer Horton opened both cell doors,

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<v Speaker 4>and after a brief wait, Inmate A left his cell.

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<v Speaker 4>Inmate A then proceeded up the tier towards me at

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<v Speaker 4>a distance of about three feet, he stopped and pulled

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<v Speaker 4>from his pocket a makeshift knife. At this display, I

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<v Speaker 4>settled into a Kung fu defensive stance and waited for

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<v Speaker 4>the said inmate to launch his attack. Inmate A was

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<v Speaker 4>apparently thrown off by this posture and tried to bait

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<v Speaker 4>Sacher with a shower of dehumanizing names common to the

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<v Speaker 4>racist mentality. Sacher stayed where he was, as in his

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<v Speaker 4>telling eight to ten officials watch from behind a locked gate.

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<v Speaker 4>According to Sacher's letter, this standoff lasted for about ten

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<v Speaker 4>minutes before officials realized that inmate A had lost his

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<v Speaker 4>enthusiasm for the fight and moved in.

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<v Speaker 2>Sacher was parolled.

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<v Speaker 4>In May of nineteen seventy two. The first public announcement

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<v Speaker 4>using the Tribal Thumb was in a notice for a

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<v Speaker 4>workshop to be held on August eighth, nineteen seventy three,

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<v Speaker 4>in Long Beach.

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<v Speaker 2>The event was.

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<v Speaker 4>Sponsored by the Tribal Thumb Community and the Peace and

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<v Speaker 4>Freedom Party, which was a communist political party. The announcement read,

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<v Speaker 4>in part, we are the Tribal Thumb community and about

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<v Speaker 4>creating progressive change in this society. Work, struggle and knowledge

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<v Speaker 4>together with living in unity is what we know to

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<v Speaker 4>be the foundation leading to a socio political victory over oppression. Clearly,

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<v Speaker 4>because governments and societies are made up of people, people

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<v Speaker 4>are made up of biological and social character structures, change

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<v Speaker 4>the character structure of people, and people will in turn

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<v Speaker 4>change the structure of societies and governments. A nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 4>two parole report on Satcher mentions finding a full garden

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<v Speaker 4>of nine millimeters rounds and another garden with eight missing

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<v Speaker 4>shells in Sacher's car. It states that the holster and

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<v Speaker 4>revolutionary literature were found in his apartment. According to the

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<v Speaker 4>Berkeley barb despite the parole violations involving firearms, the FBI

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<v Speaker 4>asked the San Bernardino Sheriff's office not to use the

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<v Speaker 4>evidence to revoke Sacher's parole. They said they were investigating

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<v Speaker 4>Satcher and planned to charge him, but he was not

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<v Speaker 4>arrested or charged. The bar points to this as an

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<v Speaker 4>initial sign that he may have been working with the

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<v Speaker 4>FBI in some capacity. Either that or he could be

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<v Speaker 4>manipulated to the point where he might as well be

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<v Speaker 4>working for the FBI. In late nineteen seventy three, Satcher

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<v Speaker 4>and Sargeist moved Tribal thumbed north to the Bay Area.

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<v Speaker 4>There were rumors about Satcher's activities during nineteen seventy three,

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<v Speaker 4>that he was involved in running guns from Canada to

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<v Speaker 4>the US, that he formed links to Vince Ramos group

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<v Speaker 4>based in Palo Alto. In these early days up north,

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<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb acquired guns and focused on revolutionary rhetoric and

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<v Speaker 4>training for guerrilla warfare. One of the only contemporaneous insider

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<v Speaker 4>accounts of life in Tribal Thumb comes from a woman

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<v Speaker 4>named Hetty Sarney, the daughter of Romanian survivors of the Holocaust.

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<v Speaker 4>Her story came to light after she was arrested for

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<v Speaker 4>her part in a disastrous nineteen seventy three bank robbery.

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<v Speaker 4>She lived alone on Channing Street in Berkeley. The street was,

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<v Speaker 4>in her words, like a self contained community, like a

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<v Speaker 4>commune in many ways. She attended Grove Street College, a

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<v Speaker 4>radical school attended by, among others, future SLA members Joe

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<v Speaker 4>Ramiro and Patricia Missmoon Sultizic. Sarny came to know Saltiesk

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<v Speaker 4>along with Camilla Hall, another soon to be SLA member,

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<v Speaker 4>so she was already a member of one part of

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<v Speaker 4>the radical community. She met Earl Satcher at a bar

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<v Speaker 4>on October nineteenth, nineteen seventy three. Satcher invited her to

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<v Speaker 4>visit the Tribal Thumb home, which was a camper parked

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<v Speaker 4>in the driveway of a house they hoped to eventually buy.

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<v Speaker 4>Sarny was painting her apartment at the time, and Sacher

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<v Speaker 4>offered to help. While they worked, Sacher talked about the

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<v Speaker 4>eccentric doctor and psychoanalyst Wilhelm Reich more on him later.

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<v Speaker 4>By October twenty third, just four days after Sacher met

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<v Speaker 4>Hetty Sarney, Tribal Thumb members had moved into her apartment

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<v Speaker 4>and she was essentially a prisoner. They worked on indoctrinating

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<v Speaker 4>her into their revolutionary ideology. Sarny had grown up in

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<v Speaker 4>communists Romania, though, and was not inclined towards the political

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<v Speaker 4>side of revolutionary groups. Her ambition was to go to

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<v Speaker 4>medical school and open medical clinic in Mexico and Guatemala.

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<v Speaker 4>She became increasingly concerned the next day. According to her

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<v Speaker 4>deposition given for an appeal to her bank robbery conviction,

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<v Speaker 4>she stated then he said that they were going to

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<v Speaker 4>rob a bank in order to buy a house for

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<v Speaker 4>their commune.

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<v Speaker 2>In Berkeley.

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<v Speaker 4>I was stunned and didn't know what to say. The

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<v Speaker 4>next day was Tuesday, and I got up to go

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<v Speaker 4>to school. Earl stopped me. He said that school was

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<v Speaker 4>a waste of time and that I would learn what

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<v Speaker 4>I needed to know from them. I spent the whole

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<v Speaker 4>day walking around in a daze. They never left me

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<v Speaker 4>alone for a minute.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt like I was in prison.

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<v Speaker 4>Satcher was upset with Sarny's resistance to joining their revolutionary cause.

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<v Speaker 4>He called her a reactionary and began to beat her.

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<v Speaker 4>He called a tribal Thumb member named Joe Monico and

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<v Speaker 4>told him to come over and bring a gun. The

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<v Speaker 4>two men talked about killing Sarny, who knew too much.

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<v Speaker 4>They considered stabbing her to death and dumping her on

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<v Speaker 4>the street. There was a spade of murders committed by

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<v Speaker 4>someone known as the machete Man at the time, and

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<v Speaker 4>they figured her death would be added to his tally.

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<v Speaker 4>Then they thought she should write a suicide note, which

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<v Speaker 4>she refused to do.

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<v Speaker 2>They put a knife to.

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<v Speaker 4>Her throat, but she still refused. Then they wrapped her

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<v Speaker 4>in a blanket and set the blanket on fire. Again

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<v Speaker 4>from her deposition I was too frightened to move or

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<v Speaker 4>say a word. But they must have thought I was

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<v Speaker 4>very brave, because they put the fire out. A Tribal

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<v Speaker 4>Thumb member named Janet Hashemi embraced her and called her

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<v Speaker 4>a comrade. Sacher said he would stay with her, but

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<v Speaker 4>that at the end of the month, if she wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to leave, she could. Sarny from her deposition. On Friday,

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<v Speaker 4>November ninth, we robbed the Bank of America. The Tribal

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<v Speaker 4>Thumb considered themselves a well drilled guerrilla unit. The bank

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<v Speaker 4>robbery should have put an end to that. It was

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<v Speaker 4>a fiasco. The robbery took place at the Bank of

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<v Speaker 4>America in Berkeley, near the University of California campus. Several

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<v Speaker 4>members of Tribal Thumb entered the bank armed. Sarny was

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<v Speaker 4>with them unarmed. Her job was to get behind the

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<v Speaker 4>bank counter and fill bags with cash. Satra was driving

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<v Speaker 4>a getaway van. The robbers emerged from the bank with

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<v Speaker 4>sixteen thousand dollars worth of bills stuffed into bags, only

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<v Speaker 4>to find that the van was not there. They dispersed,

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<v Speaker 4>fleeing the scene and eventually finding the van blocks away

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<v Speaker 4>from the bank.

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<v Speaker 2>From Sarney's deposition.

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<v Speaker 4>After leaving the bank, I went back to the van

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<v Speaker 4>undressed and got under the covers. A few minutes later,

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<v Speaker 4>the police entered the van and arrested us. In all,

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<v Speaker 4>six Tribal Thumb members were rested, including Sacher. This was

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<v Speaker 4>the same day that the SLA sent its communica about

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<v Speaker 4>the murder of Oakland Schools Superintendent Marcus Foster. That moment,

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<v Speaker 4>when Earl Satcher, Hetty Sarney, and four others were in

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<v Speaker 4>jail in the wake of their failed bank robbery, became

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<v Speaker 4>very important in Tribal Thumb's trajectory because Benny Sargus contacted

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<v Speaker 4>the United Prisoners Union or UPU, the organization run by

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<v Speaker 4>Popeye Jackson, to see about getting help to fund Sacher's defense.

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<v Speaker 4>The funding didn't come through, but this was the critical

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<v Speaker 4>beginning of Tribal Thumb's relationship with the UPU. Sacher's defense

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<v Speaker 4>didn't require funding because of what may have been ludicrous

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<v Speaker 4>in competence by the FBI or further indication of Sacher

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<v Speaker 4>being an FBI asset. To put it succinctly, the FBI

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<v Speaker 4>lost most of the evidence before trial, including the bank,

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<v Speaker 4>while the other five were sentenced to some jail time. Satcher,

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<v Speaker 4>the leader, walked free soon after. In nineteen seventy four,

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<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb members began to attend UPU meetings, events and

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<v Speaker 4>Saturday study sessions. Among those attending were Benny Sargus and

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<v Speaker 4>a small time burglar and drug offender named Richard London

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<v Speaker 4>who went by Ricardo London. Tribal Thumb enjoyed good relations

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<v Speaker 4>with UPU during the People in Need.

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<v Speaker 2>Effort or PIN.

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 4>Remember, this was Randolph Hurst's attempt to respond to the

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:42.280
<v Speaker 4>Symbionese Liberation Army's demands to feed the poor of California

0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 4>as a requirement for Patty Hurst's release. It was around

0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.240
<v Speaker 4>this time that Sarah Jane Moore also became involved in

0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 4>PIN and UPU. After People in Need ended, tension developed

0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:01.280
<v Speaker 4>between UPU and Tribal Thumb members. D Sargists had collected

0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 4>money at some UPU benefits and was suspected of keeping

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:09.560
<v Speaker 4>some of the proceeds. Popeye Jackson confronted Sargist about this

0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:14.600
<v Speaker 4>and things became heated. After that, Tribal Thumb no longer

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 4>associated with UPO. Sarah Jane Moore left it around the

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 4>same time and began associating to an unknown degree with

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb. Even in the context of radical and revolutionary groups,

0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb had some strange beliefs and tenets. First among

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.880
<v Speaker 4>them was their adherence to the teachings of Austrian doctor

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:43.960
<v Speaker 4>and psychoanalyst Wilhelm Reich. SATR focused primarily on Reich's ideas

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 4>around orgone energy. Orgone was a word coined by Reich

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 4>that was a combination of organism and orgasm. He theorized

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 4>that orgone was an omnipresent and essential substance, and that

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 4>a lack of organ in the body could cause problems

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 4>ranging from neuroses to cancer. Sex was apparently the remedy

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 4>for this, and was encouraged and at times forced among

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:17.480
<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb members. Monogamy was bourgeois. Tribal Thumb owned a

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.160
<v Speaker 4>property called the Honeydew Ranch north of San Francisco in

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 4>Mendocino County, where they raised Arabian horses. Here, the activities

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 4>veered between the colt like and revolutionary. Like many radical groups,

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.800
<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb performed a type of brutal group therapy that

0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:43.320
<v Speaker 4>could include browbeating, interrogation, isolation, sleep, deprivation, violence, and other

0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 4>techniques often used by colts to instill competence in revolutionary action.

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 4>A Tribal Thumb member named Walter Hunsacker trained the group

0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.120
<v Speaker 4>in the use of firearms and allegedly arranged for the

0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.040
<v Speaker 4>purchase of guns as well. He taught techniques to make

0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 4>guns untraceable. Huntsacker pushed the group towards action. He talked

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 4>about revolutionary subjects, and in January of nineteen seventy five,

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.680
<v Speaker 4>was present when Benny Sargis told Ricardo London that Popeye

0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 4>Jackson was a snitch and that they had to lean

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 4>on him. But Huntsacker was not a true believer. He

0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 4>was an infiltrator working for the FBI, a provocateur, and

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 4>there are questions about whether he was the driving force

0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.840
<v Speaker 4>behind violent actions that would have fallen under the aims

0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:40.640
<v Speaker 4>of the FBI's co intel pro initiative, actions such as

0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:46.359
<v Speaker 4>the murder of Popeye Jackson. Sacher's strange political and philosophical

0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 4>teachings alienated some followers, and Tribal Thumb evolved into a

0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:56.679
<v Speaker 4>small group dedicated to Sacher. The consequences for leaving the

0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 4>group or not adhering to Sacher's beliefs were in Benny

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 4>Sargus's weird mafia speak to take their air. Here's an

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:11.560
<v Speaker 4>example of Satri's bizarre activities. He brought several Tribal Thumb

0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.480
<v Speaker 4>members to an isolated house in Pacific Grove, a town

0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.760
<v Speaker 4>on the Monterey Peninsula south of San Francisco. The house

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 4>was owned by a single woman, and SATR thought it

0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.600
<v Speaker 4>could serve as a headquarters. Sacher apparently wanted to show

0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.400
<v Speaker 4>her how completely he controlled his followers. To do this,

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 4>he had a child dive off a table toward a

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 4>stone floor, making no attempt to break his own fall.

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.280
<v Speaker 4>Sacher grabbed him just before he landed. There's no account

0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 4>of the woman's reaction, but the group left when Sacher

0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 4>saw just how many people regularly visited the house. It

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 4>didn't have the privacy that he'd anticipated. We cover the

0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.720
<v Speaker 4>Popeye Jackson assassination in the main podcast, so I won't

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.480
<v Speaker 4>go into it again here other than to mention that

0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 4>the Berkeley barb found plenty of reason to believe that

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:09.320
<v Speaker 4>the FBI was at best indifferent to Popeye's murder. They

0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 4>pointed to the fact that the only witness to the

0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.280
<v Speaker 4>crime described two people involved in the murder, but the

0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 4>investigation essentially stopped with the arrest of a single person,

0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:24.719
<v Speaker 4>Ricardo London. Allegedly, thirty eight caliber bullets were found at

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.639
<v Speaker 4>the assassination scene, in addition to the bullets from the

0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 4>nine millimeter handgun used by Ricardo London. This was never explained,

0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 4>and despite his dominant control over Tribal Thumb, Sacher was

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 4>only questioned once in association with Popeye's murder. The FBI

0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.399
<v Speaker 4>had not only placed Walter Huntsacker in Tribal Thumb, but

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.880
<v Speaker 4>had another informant, Gary Johnson, in the group. Both were

0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.959
<v Speaker 4>in position to know about the plans to assassinate Popeye,

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.160
<v Speaker 4>but they didn't try to stop it. Ricardo London gave

0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.000
<v Speaker 4>Huntsacker the nine millimeter pistol he used, minus the barrel

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 4>on July second, nineteen seventy five, less than a month

0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:11.440
<v Speaker 4>after the June seventh assassination. San Francisco police detective Frank

0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.680
<v Speaker 4>Falzan had found the gun's barrel on June eighth. Clearly,

0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.800
<v Speaker 4>the evidence that Huntsacker possessed the barrelless gun and his

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.800
<v Speaker 4>knowledge from inside Tribal Thumb, could have led to an

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 4>early resolution of the investigation, but Falzon did not even

0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.960
<v Speaker 4>get that part of the gun until March of seventy six,

0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 4>nine months later. Finally, Popeye's murder was in keeping with

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.120
<v Speaker 4>the methods of co intel Pro, which had been officially

0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.919
<v Speaker 4>ended in nineteen seventy one, but whose tactics continued on

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:47.719
<v Speaker 4>informally provoking. The murder of one revolutionary figure by a

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 4>separate revolutionary group was exactly the type of operation that

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:53.200
<v Speaker 4>would have fallen under.

0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Co intel Pro.

0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.720
<v Speaker 4>This was, not, however, the only Tribal Thumb action that

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.439
<v Speaker 4>appeared to the Berkeley Bar to be consistent with co

0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 4>intel Pro methods. After the break, the next chapter in

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.240
<v Speaker 4>the Tribal Thumb story involved moving into the food business.

0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.680
<v Speaker 4>This played out in two ways, one of which ended

0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:22.520
<v Speaker 4>up in disaster. The move that was not disastrous was

0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 4>the takeover in August of nineteen seventy six of a

0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:31.679
<v Speaker 4>vegetarian restaurant called The Communion. The Communion was a unique place.

0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:37.160
<v Speaker 4>Conversation was forbidden, no music was played, the walls were bare.

0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 4>The idea was that the food was the sole focus

0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.320
<v Speaker 4>of diners. Then Tribal Thumb arrived. According to the owner

0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.680
<v Speaker 4>at the time, he was promised lots of sex from

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.359
<v Speaker 4>the women members of Tribal Thumb if he let the

0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:55.240
<v Speaker 4>group move in. He would later assert in Small Claims

0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:59.679
<v Speaker 4>Court that this abundant sex was not provided, but Tribal

0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 4>Thumb had already moved in, changing the name of the

0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 4>restaurant and eventually their group to the Well Springs Communion,

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:12.159
<v Speaker 4>they made the building their headquarters. Among other changes, the

0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:17.040
<v Speaker 4>restaurant began to hold jazz concerts, including saxophone duets with Satcher,

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 4>who is considered a very accomplished saxophonist, and Sunny Stitt,

0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.560
<v Speaker 4>considered one of the great jazz saxophonists of his generation.

0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.880
<v Speaker 4>A restaurant review in nineteen seventy nine stead of Well

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.679
<v Speaker 4>Springs Communion. It regards the restaurant as a service to

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.119
<v Speaker 4>the community wholesome fare at bedrock cost, but it is

0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.080
<v Speaker 4>also a source of income for the group, whose primary

0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 4>effort is to provide alternative patterns of work and life

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:49.639
<v Speaker 4>for its members. The review is not great, emphasizing that

0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 4>the food, usually curried, was generally cold. It concludes, given

0:22:55.640 --> 0:23:00.359
<v Speaker 4>hot food, I'm sure more would attend. It's not entirely

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:04.120
<v Speaker 4>clear when Tribal Thumb began calling themselves the Well Springs Communion,

0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:07.160
<v Speaker 4>but I'll continue to refer to the group as Tribal

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:11.640
<v Speaker 4>Thumb to keep things from getting confusing. The second move

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:15.160
<v Speaker 4>they made was to infiltrate what was called the People's

0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:19.240
<v Speaker 4>Food System. This was a loose network of Bay Area

0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:23.879
<v Speaker 4>food co ops, households, and communes that banded together to

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:28.199
<v Speaker 4>provide an alternative to the large grocery store chains. They

0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.480
<v Speaker 4>would pool money to purchase large amounts of organic foods

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:33.440
<v Speaker 4>and then meet to divvy.

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Up the supplies.

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:39.520
<v Speaker 4>These meetings themselves became social and political events. The system

0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:44.159
<v Speaker 4>comprised a mix of ideologies. Among the system's members was

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:48.520
<v Speaker 4>a Berkeley food co op called Ma Revolutions, which employed

0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.040
<v Speaker 4>a number of black activists, including a man named Willie Tait,

0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.480
<v Speaker 4>who was a close friend of George Jackson's and one

0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:59.719
<v Speaker 4>of the san Quentins six. Another system member was an

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 4>organic food distributor called the Veritable Vegetable. Two Tribal Thumb

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 4>members worked at the Veritable Vegetable. Benny Sargis, second only

0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:13.119
<v Speaker 4>to Sacher in the Tribal Thumb hierarchy, and a former

0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:16.640
<v Speaker 4>San quentin inmate known as Red, who may or may

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:19.919
<v Speaker 4>not have been a member of the Aryan Brotherhood. It

0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 4>was Tribal Thumb's association with the Veritable Vegetable that would

0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:24.760
<v Speaker 4>eventually lead.

0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:25.960
<v Speaker 2>To Earl Sacher's death.

0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:31.160
<v Speaker 4>There was a sense among some people, particularly those involved

0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:34.680
<v Speaker 4>with Ma revolutions, that Tribal Thumb was trying to take

0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:38.399
<v Speaker 4>over the people's food system. It does make some sense

0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:42.760
<v Speaker 4>from Tribal Thumb's perspective. It would provide a legitimate power

0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:46.480
<v Speaker 4>base for the group, having control over the distribution of

0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.920
<v Speaker 4>the communally purchased food. It would also be a place

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.800
<v Speaker 4>where they could employ associates, especially ex cons who might

0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 4>have trouble securing employment elsewhere, and it would supply a

0:24:57.680 --> 0:25:00.800
<v Speaker 4>stream of money for a group that was poor and

0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:05.439
<v Speaker 4>were incompetent bank robbers. In the spring of nineteen seventy seven,

0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:10.360
<v Speaker 4>suspicions arose that Sargus and Red were diverting goods from

0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:12.280
<v Speaker 4>the Veritable Vegetable to the Well.

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Springs Communion restaurant. This crisis led.

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.760
<v Speaker 4>To a meeting on April seventeenth with the aim of

0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:23.400
<v Speaker 4>discussing principles of unity for the network. The Veritable Vegetable

0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:30.840
<v Speaker 4>sent several observers, including Sacher. Sacher brought chaos he demanded

0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:33.800
<v Speaker 4>to be allowed to participate in the meeting. The chair

0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:36.720
<v Speaker 4>refused him twice, but Sacher forced his.

0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Way into the proceedings.

0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:41.520
<v Speaker 4>When it was brought to a vote, the overwhelming majority

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:45.480
<v Speaker 4>of workers present voted to expel the Veritable Vegetable Contingent

0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 4>from the system meeting. An argument broke out between Sacher

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:53.000
<v Speaker 4>and his group and the opposition, who had voted them out.

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 4>One worker, believing that Sacher and company were actually police

0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 4>plants whose purpose was to disrupt the system's functioning, took photos.

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:06.040
<v Speaker 4>Sacher confronted him, telling the photographer that he'd pay.

0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Him for the film.

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:11.639
<v Speaker 4>The man refused and was surrounded by Sacher's contingent. He

0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 4>made a move toward the door, and a fight broke

0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.159
<v Speaker 4>out between Tribal Thumb and the system workers at the meeting.

0:26:17.560 --> 0:26:18.879
<v Speaker 2>As Sacher tried.

0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:22.480
<v Speaker 4>To get the camera, The photographer passed the camera to

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.480
<v Speaker 4>a female worker who tried to run away but was

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:28.959
<v Speaker 4>tackled by Red. Red pulled the film from the camera

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.280
<v Speaker 4>and yelled to Earl that he had it. Upon hearing this,

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:36.679
<v Speaker 4>both sides stopped fighting, and the Veritable Vegetable Contingent left.

0:26:38.119 --> 0:26:41.560
<v Speaker 4>Four days later, on April twenty first, a vote of

0:26:41.600 --> 0:26:46.680
<v Speaker 4>the People's Food System suspended Benny Sargus. The Veritable Vegetable

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 4>initially supported the decision, but then refused to cooperate with

0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:55.560
<v Speaker 4>the investigation. Five days later, on April twenty sixth, a

0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:59.520
<v Speaker 4>special representative body met at the People's Food System warehouse

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 4>one fifty five Barnevelt Street in San Francisco. The meeting

0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:07.320
<v Speaker 4>was to determine whether, in the wake of their refusal

0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:11.680
<v Speaker 4>to cooperate with the Benny Sargents investigation, the Veritable Vegetable

0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:15.840
<v Speaker 4>would be expelled from the People's Food System. Earl Sacher

0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:21.320
<v Speaker 4>arrived uninvited with two leashed Dobermans. He wasn't allowed into

0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 4>the meeting, but waited downstairs instead. Upstairs, the Veritable Vegetable

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:31.240
<v Speaker 4>contingent tried to disrupt the proceedings, refusing to recognize the

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:36.879
<v Speaker 4>chair and generally making a formal meeting impossible. Eventually, a

0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 4>break was called to give the Veritable Vegetable group a

0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 4>chance to caucus and figure out their next steps.

0:27:43.680 --> 0:27:45.159
<v Speaker 2>The Veritable Vegetable.

0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 4>Group went downstairs to consult with Satcher. At this point,

0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:53.880
<v Speaker 4>a Volkswagen Rabbit pulled up near the warehouse door. Willie

0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:57.480
<v Speaker 4>Tait and two other MA Revolutions workers, along with a

0:27:57.560 --> 0:28:01.600
<v Speaker 4>fourth person, approached the door. According to an account in

0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:06.960
<v Speaker 4>the Berkeley barb Satcher, seeing Tate, said what's happening, pulled

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:11.280
<v Speaker 4>a gun and started shooting at Tate. Tate, unarmed, fell

0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:16.120
<v Speaker 4>to the ground critically wounded. Satcher and an unidentified partner

0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:20.400
<v Speaker 4>continued to fire. Shots came back at them from unknown shooters,

0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:24.800
<v Speaker 4>and there was briefly chaos. A witness named Frank Vlahovich

0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:28.320
<v Speaker 4>said that there were a couple of initial shots and

0:28:28.359 --> 0:28:31.760
<v Speaker 4>then they took a break, then another barrage. They were

0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 4>just out to waste each other when the shooting stopped.

0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Tate was badly but not fatally injured. Sacher was dead.

0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:45.760
<v Speaker 4>His body was found between two cars. His twenty two

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:50.880
<v Speaker 4>lay nearby, along with six spent shells. The unidentified partner

0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:54.960
<v Speaker 4>had fled with the shootout over A new kind of

0:28:55.040 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 4>chaos ensued. Benny Sargis attacked a system employee. Other Tribal

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:03.280
<v Speaker 4>Thumb member ran upstairs to the meeting room waving a

0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:07.360
<v Speaker 4>gun in each hand. The outnumbered, Veritable Vegetable and Tribal

0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:10.600
<v Speaker 4>Thumb contingent were forced out of the building, and that

0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 4>essentially was the end of the night and the beginning

0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:18.760
<v Speaker 4>of the end for the people's food system. In the

0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.880
<v Speaker 4>wake of the shootout, workers at Mob Revolutions issued a

0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:25.160
<v Speaker 4>statement that said, in part that Sacher and his people

0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.200
<v Speaker 4>had been known in the past to use violence and

0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:33.560
<v Speaker 4>intimidation against innocent people for personal and political gain. The

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:36.720
<v Speaker 4>Black Guerrilla Family, who had earlier been asked to weigh

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 4>in on the murder of Popeye Jackson, also issued a

0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:44.760
<v Speaker 4>statement co signed by the Black Liberation Army, another underground

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:49.240
<v Speaker 4>prison group. It began its analysis by stating that no

0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:53.280
<v Speaker 4>organization could use the threat of violence to force other

0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:59.920
<v Speaker 4>organizations to reject group decisions. It went on Earl Satcher did,

0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:03.680
<v Speaker 4>in fact violate these principles by threatening Willie Tait and

0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 4>others a week before the fatal incident. Tribal Thumb did

0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:10.680
<v Speaker 4>in fact arrive at the meeting armed and with the

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:15.560
<v Speaker 4>intention of a physical assault. It noted that Tribal Thumb

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.240
<v Speaker 4>had threatened the lives of the people had identified as

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:22.920
<v Speaker 4>being responsible for Sature's death. It then said, if you

0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:26.600
<v Speaker 4>think the co intel pro era has ended, look around you.

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 4>It concluded any attempted acts of revenge on the part

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 4>of Tribal Thumb for Sacher's death will be an unprincipled,

0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 4>unpolitical act which will not be tolerated by the movement period.

0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:46.240
<v Speaker 4>And then the movement, in his attempt to unite around

0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:51.520
<v Speaker 4>a common strategy, is watching Tribal Thumb and his organizational affiliates.

0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 4>Do you bury your vengeance and adhere to and respect

0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 4>the principles of democratic centralism, or do you aid the

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:05.680
<v Speaker 4>counterinsurgency machinery by unleashing forces which you cannot control. Willie

0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:11.240
<v Speaker 4>Tait recovered, but the People's Food System didn't. After the shootout,

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:15.080
<v Speaker 4>law enforcement cracked down on the system. They hassled workers

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:19.320
<v Speaker 4>and cited system members for health code violations. In just

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 4>a few months, Mob Revolutions was shuddered, the system diminished significantly.

0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb two.

0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:28.560
<v Speaker 2>Struggled in the aftermath.

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:33.920
<v Speaker 4>Benny Sargus went back to jail for parole violations. Without

0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:37.360
<v Speaker 4>Satcher to galvanize the group, some members drifted away.

0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 2>From this point.

0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:44.400
<v Speaker 4>Tribal Thumb or Well Springs Communion only occasionally rises to

0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:48.920
<v Speaker 4>the notice of the media. One occasion was the story

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 4>of a man named Ardie Ray Baker, who had murdered

0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 4>an elderly couple in their home when he was eighteen

0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:59.360
<v Speaker 4>sentenced to life in prison. He briefly escaped once and

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:01.720
<v Speaker 4>then escaped the second time, remaining at.

0:32:01.760 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Large for almost two years.

0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:07.840
<v Speaker 4>During this time, he and his wife were reportedly active

0:32:07.880 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 4>in Tribal Thumb. He was recaptured after killing a US

0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:14.680
<v Speaker 4>Customs officer when he was stopped at a border station

0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:19.840
<v Speaker 4>in northern Washington State. At Baker's trial, the prosecutor claimed

0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:24.880
<v Speaker 4>that Tribal Thumb supported themselves financially through burglaries and car thefts.

0:32:25.720 --> 0:32:28.680
<v Speaker 4>He claimed that Baker was recruited to provide weapons training

0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 4>to members and had become a hitman for the group.

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 4>In October nineteen seventy nine, while Baker was being held

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:38.680
<v Speaker 4>in the King County Jail in Seattle in connection with

0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:42.680
<v Speaker 4>the custom agent killing, Tribal Thumb provided support for yet

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:47.640
<v Speaker 4>another escape. This was a bloody affair involving seven escapees

0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:52.480
<v Speaker 4>and no fewer than four separate shootouts. One escapee was

0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 4>killed and three escapees and.

0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:55.720
<v Speaker 2>One officer wounded.

0:32:56.600 --> 0:33:00.880
<v Speaker 4>One of the escapees, a murderer named William desat Done,

0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:04.480
<v Speaker 4>gave his name as William Crest, and while the authorities

0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:07.360
<v Speaker 4>knew this wasn't his real name. They were unable to

0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 4>identify him using fingerprints for several days because his hands

0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:15.200
<v Speaker 4>had been badly mangled by a police dog during his arrest.

0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 4>The last major incident to be covered by the media

0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:23.760
<v Speaker 4>concerning Tribal Thumb, now known as Well Springs Communion, was

0:33:23.800 --> 0:33:28.200
<v Speaker 4>the murder of a former member named Roseanne Goston. Goston

0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:31.840
<v Speaker 4>and another woman had recently left the Honeydew Ranch commune,

0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:35.440
<v Speaker 4>and on June second, nineteen eighty had returned to collect

0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:39.240
<v Speaker 4>property that they considered theirs. Two women were sent to

0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:42.920
<v Speaker 4>the ranch to stop them. These events took place decades ago,

0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:46.280
<v Speaker 4>and the two women involved have established lives separate from

0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:50.080
<v Speaker 4>these actions. Because of this, I won't use their real names.

0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:53.760
<v Speaker 4>I'll call them Tracy and Brenda.

0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 2>According to the.

0:33:54.640 --> 0:33:59.720
<v Speaker 4>Police filing, what followed was an ambush. Goston's companion fled

0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:02.880
<v Speaker 4>in and then returned with a male friend. A witness,

0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:07.560
<v Speaker 4>Goston's companion most likely claimed to see Tracy hold Goston

0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:10.399
<v Speaker 4>pin to the ground and Brenda shooter in the head

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:15.720
<v Speaker 4>with a thirty two caliber automatic pistol. Later, during Brenda's trial,

0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:18.240
<v Speaker 4>the presiding judge had a different view.

0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Of the event.

0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:21.440
<v Speaker 4>He believed that there was a struggle during which the

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:26.040
<v Speaker 4>gun went off, killing Goston. This killing, in his judgment,

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:30.960
<v Speaker 4>was more or less an accident. Regardless, Tracy and Brenda

0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:35.800
<v Speaker 4>went underground. On June sixth, four days after the murder,

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:39.120
<v Speaker 4>police conducted a raid on a two story wood framed

0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:42.759
<v Speaker 4>house at eleven to twenty five Fulsome Street in San Francisco.

0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:46.040
<v Speaker 4>They received a tip that Tracy and Brenda were there,

0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:49.000
<v Speaker 4>but that turned out not to be the case. They

0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 4>arrested five people at the house and released one after questioning.

0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 4>The police described the house as a fortress. The front

0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.560
<v Speaker 4>door had a quarter inch steel plating on the front

0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:02.920
<v Speaker 4>and eye iron bars on the back. They found weapons,

0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 4>a printing press, Marxist literature, and a trapdoor in the basement.

0:35:07.760 --> 0:35:09.520
<v Speaker 2>That led to the city sewer system.

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:13.680
<v Speaker 4>Police fired tear gas grenades into the tunnel because they

0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:16.960
<v Speaker 4>believed that someone might be hiding down there, but when

0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:21.200
<v Speaker 4>the tear gas cleared, the tunnel was empty. Tracy and

0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:24.680
<v Speaker 4>Brenda remained at large for about two years. Brenda was

0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:28.680
<v Speaker 4>arrested first in North Carolina. She'd used an alias in

0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:31.200
<v Speaker 4>a written request for a birth certificate in the name

0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:34.440
<v Speaker 4>of a girl who had died in infancy. This was

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:38.520
<v Speaker 4>likely the first step in obtaining a fake ID. Tracy

0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:41.279
<v Speaker 4>was arrested in New Orleans while walking with her ten

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:44.360
<v Speaker 4>month old daughter. When she was picked up, she was

0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 4>carrying a fake ID and a list of four armored

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:52.400
<v Speaker 4>car companies along with their pickup schedule. Both women were

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:57.200
<v Speaker 4>charged with first degree murder with special circumstances. Lying in wait,

0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:00.399
<v Speaker 4>their charge would have brought the death penalty or life

0:36:00.440 --> 0:36:04.200
<v Speaker 4>in prison without the possibility of parole. They were allowed

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:08.160
<v Speaker 4>to plead the voluntary manslaughter. When the county prosecutor, a

0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:12.279
<v Speaker 4>man named Barry Brown, determined that witnesses had lied or

0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.960
<v Speaker 4>were unwilling to give testimony that evidence had been destroyed,

0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:19.880
<v Speaker 4>they were each sentenced to three years in prison. In

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:22.600
<v Speaker 4>a New York Times article about the case, the Well

0:36:22.640 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 4>Springs Communion seems a much different organization than in the

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:29.719
<v Speaker 4>early days of tribal thumb. The Times article ends with

0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:34.440
<v Speaker 4>the following sentence describing the commune, which drew members from

0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:38.319
<v Speaker 4>a variety of groups, including the Black Gorilla Family, the

0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 4>Black Panthers, and the Charles Manson family. Barry Brown says

0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:46.360
<v Speaker 4>there were a few who were very politically aware and

0:36:46.440 --> 0:36:50.680
<v Speaker 4>were true revolutionaries, but the organization was inundated with people

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:56.080
<v Speaker 4>whose motives were not politically directed. I asked Rick Riley,

0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:58.919
<v Speaker 4>who was a former member of Tribal Thumb, to tell

0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:01.000
<v Speaker 4>me what he wanted people to know about the group

0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:02.200
<v Speaker 4>and the people in it.

0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:04.560
<v Speaker 2>This is what he said.

0:37:05.920 --> 0:37:09.399
<v Speaker 3>These people were intelligent people. There were not a bunch

0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:12.200
<v Speaker 3>of dummies. They were intelligent. Most of the women that

0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:15.800
<v Speaker 3>were involved came from good families. Even the guys pretty

0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:20.160
<v Speaker 3>much came from decent, good American families. But they wanted change.

0:37:20.600 --> 0:37:24.920
<v Speaker 3>They believe a change was necessary. And the people who

0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:28.719
<v Speaker 3>manipulated that got in at the top and manipulated their

0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:33.360
<v Speaker 3>desire for change, which is what leaders do. We manipulate.

0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:37.640
<v Speaker 3>They were intelligent, good people, they just got used. And

0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 3>those who of us who believed that we could make

0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:44.200
<v Speaker 3>a change, we couldn't. In the end, we realized all

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:47.280
<v Speaker 3>we could do is cause anarchy, and out of anarchy

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:50.560
<v Speaker 3>gained power because we knew that it was what the

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:55.200
<v Speaker 3>elite did. Out of chaos is power. So I liked

0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:58.240
<v Speaker 3>it role, I really did. He could be deadly, yes,

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.799
<v Speaker 3>but he could be kind to you know. He was

0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:08.000
<v Speaker 3>just very charismatic man. I don't follow just anybody, you know.

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:10.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he had my loyalty right from the start.

0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:13.520
<v Speaker 3>I loved him as a brother, and he was a

0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:17.000
<v Speaker 3>good man. He actually believed in what he was doing.

0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:17.719
<v Speaker 2>He really did.

0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:20.839
<v Speaker 3>He believed that he could cause a change. And what

0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:24.280
<v Speaker 3>we realized was that maybe we can't change the world,

0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:27.799
<v Speaker 3>but we could cause a change for hours. And what

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:31.200
<v Speaker 3>ours was is what consisted of our group. You know,

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 3>whatever our group is, we could make it better for us,

0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:37.120
<v Speaker 3>and we could be ready for what was coming. We

0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:40.480
<v Speaker 3>could train, we could be ready for the war that

0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:43.440
<v Speaker 3>was coming, you know, the civil war that was going

0:38:43.440 --> 0:38:45.759
<v Speaker 3>to be coming eventually in America that we thought was

0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:46.480
<v Speaker 3>going to be coming.

0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:51.680
<v Speaker 2>The revolution. He believed it, He actually did. He believed

0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:52.280
<v Speaker 2>in what he.

0:38:52.160 --> 0:39:00.839
<v Speaker 3>Was doing with tribal thumb and wellspring communion lasting is

0:39:01.000 --> 0:39:04.360
<v Speaker 3>us those of us who went through that, Where was

0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:10.000
<v Speaker 3>lasting of it? Wellspring communion is over? Did we accomplish anything?

0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't regret my pard in any of it, other

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:18.520
<v Speaker 3>than that Roseanne would end up being killed. Other than that,

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:22.480
<v Speaker 3>because Roseanne was my friend. You know, nothing lasting out

0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:24.840
<v Speaker 3>of that came out of that other than us us,

0:39:24.920 --> 0:39:26.239
<v Speaker 3>those of us who survived it.

0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:36.480
<v Speaker 4>Thank you to Rick sundown Riley, author of Thief on

0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:42.040
<v Speaker 4>the Cross, I'm Toby Ball. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:46.960
<v Speaker 4>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:52.920
<v Speaker 4>For more information on Rip Current, visit the show website

0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:59.960
<v Speaker 4>at ripcurrentpod dot com.

0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Two