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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You, production of I Heart Radio's House Networks.

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Speaker 1: This episode was inspired by a recent news story that

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Speaker 1: made the rounds when van Oh White was going to

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Speaker 1: host guest host Wheel of Fortune for three weeks. It

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Speaker 1: was all over um, and it got me thinking about

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Speaker 1: female game show hosts, which is yeah, which is not

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Speaker 1: very hard of no, And that's why I immediately looked

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Speaker 1: to make sure no one had done this episode previously,

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Speaker 1: because I couldn't really think of any. And there are

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Speaker 1: some and we're going to talk about them for sure.

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Speaker 1: And if you're not really familiar with Will of Fortunate,

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Speaker 1: Vanna White, Vana White is a household name, of course

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people. She is the person who

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Speaker 1: flips the letters traditionally around Yes. Since she's usually in

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Speaker 1: a long cocktail dress, she's been featured in many rap songs. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and this isn't the first time, um, she's covered for hosts.

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Speaker 1: Pat Sage actually has been doing this since that's about

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Speaker 1: thirty seven years um. Once he when he had laryngitis,

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Speaker 1: she stepped in. In interviews, she said about this whole

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Speaker 1: recent guest hosting thing, she was given thirty minutes warning

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Speaker 1: before she had to go out and host the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: She described it as pure panic. She once said she

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Speaker 1: does not feel lower than Pat, say Jack, but equal

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Speaker 1: to him. And if you're wondering, Wheel of Fortune is

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Speaker 1: the longest running syndicated game show of all time. So

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Speaker 1: when she was hosting with someone else there to flip

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Speaker 1: the letters, yes, so at first it was I believe

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Speaker 1: Mickey and Minny Mouse. It might have just been many Mouse. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I do remember saying those. Okay, and now it's Pat

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Speaker 1: Sajack's daughter, or most recently was Pat Sajack's daughter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I got to think I got curious about this.

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Speaker 1: Pat Sajack makes fifteen million dollars a year versus ten

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Speaker 1: million dollars for Vanna White. I mean, that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. That it's a lot of money. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's definitely a big discrempancy for sure. Are you a

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Speaker 1: big game show persons, I'm not. I mean I do

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Speaker 1: have the memories of watching them with my grandparents. I

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Speaker 1: just I think I'm just too bored. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to sit still that like that. But I think the

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Speaker 1: last one I did watch was when my friend actually

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Speaker 1: one on Jeffary we had a little viewing party for

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Speaker 1: and she won. We're like, yeah, all ask was like,

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Speaker 1: where's the money? I didn't do with that money? Did

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Speaker 1: the wall where you get the money? But yeah, interesting.

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Speaker 1: She was able to give me a little behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes and it was pretty intense about how they quickly

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Speaker 1: they had to get ready recording. She had been auditioning

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Speaker 1: for years. Yeah, and she is that person. So I

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Speaker 1: ever play trivia, I will be taking her with me

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Speaker 1: because she is the random facts girl for sure. For sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was looking at the Jeopardy website doing research for

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Speaker 1: this episode, and I'm definitely going to take the test.

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Speaker 1: You can take the test on I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: do anything after that. I'm just curious. But it is

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Speaker 1: a very well kept website. And also, Samantha, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you knew this. I was on High Q.

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Speaker 1: Were you or you remember those Saturday morning This was

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Speaker 1: a high school based trivia show, right pretty much any

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Speaker 1: school can get on there, but I was on there.

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Speaker 1: Well did you win? Yes? And there was a question

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Speaker 1: about Michelle Fifers Catlan. I actually remember that around I

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Speaker 1: did not get it back. One of the dudes on

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Speaker 1: the team, of course they did. Yes, I really only

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Speaker 1: ever got into whose line is it? Anyway? And I

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Speaker 1: guess legend of the Hidden Temple when I the rarer

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Speaker 1: occasion when I had access to cable either through friends

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Speaker 1: or family. Um, And neither of those really count as

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Speaker 1: game shows within the definition that we're using. It's actually

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Speaker 1: more complex than I thought. Are not more Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: just more simple. But speaking of let's let's look at

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Speaker 1: the definition. Basically, it's a televised game with multiple contestants.

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Speaker 1: These contestants are frequently quote average people from Marion Webster,

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Speaker 1: a television program on which contestants compete for prizes in

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Speaker 1: a game such as a quiz. Right. Some people include

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Speaker 1: reality shows like so you Think you Can Dance? But

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Speaker 1: that's more of a dance competition, which I really love

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Speaker 1: a vary end of reality competition shows also, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really like those types of shows, but I would

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Speaker 1: not consider those a game show. Like you can just

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Speaker 1: win prizes people who are talented, right, it's almost a

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Speaker 1: talent competition. Yeah, yeah, as you said, yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I I was like, amazing, Right, I kept thinking of

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Speaker 1: all these shows, right, they're not really game shows in

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Speaker 1: that level. So we're focusing primarily on American television game shows,

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Speaker 1: but we'll be touching on a couple of things outside

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Speaker 1: of that realm. In the early days of televised game shows,

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Speaker 1: lower state shows aired during the day, primarily aimed at

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Speaker 1: house fives, while the higher state games aired during prime time,

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Speaker 1: and these shows experience a meteoric rise until several quiz

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Speaker 1: shows were implicated in a series of scandals in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty nine in which producers were giving contestants the answers

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Speaker 1: to up the drama because you know, you gotta have

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Speaker 1: that drama. There was a gran jury and congressional hearing

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Speaker 1: and everything. Panel shows survived the scandal and came out

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Speaker 1: on the other side stronger. Yeah, weirdly enough. Another thing

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Speaker 1: that helped was a nineteen four Supreme Court ruling an

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Speaker 1: sec versus American Broadcasting Company, Inc. That giveaways weren't gabling

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Speaker 1: opening the door to bigger prizes. Yeah, this was so interesting.

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Speaker 1: I did not know about this scandal, and there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a movie about it INFTY four. Yeah, fascinating it is.

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Speaker 1: Prior to this scandal, one popular contestants, psychologist Dr Joyce Brothers,

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Speaker 1: enjoyed widespread popularity after winning the top prize twice on

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Speaker 1: the sixty four thousand dollar Question and the show that

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Speaker 1: replaced it once in nine and once. She did this

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Speaker 1: in part by reading twenty encyclopedias about boxing twenty, knowing

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Speaker 1: that she would have a better chance of getting selected

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Speaker 1: as a contestant if she could compete in a novelty category.

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Speaker 1: She beat out actual boxers with her knowledge on obscure rules.

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Speaker 1: The producers of the show didn't like what they called

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Speaker 1: her superficial knowledge of boxing and attempted to oust her

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Speaker 1: by going out of their way to find questions that

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Speaker 1: would stump her, but she won anyway. They tried to

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Speaker 1: cheat and shed her. She went on to get her

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Speaker 1: own show, where she talked about then taboo topics, sometimes

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Speaker 1: still to have her topics like sexual satisfaction. She guessed

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Speaker 1: it on several other shows, turned out a few books.

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Speaker 1: She's been in interviews with Conan O'Brien. She is somebody.

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Speaker 1: Suspicion around quiz shows lingered long after this scandal, and

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Speaker 1: when merv Griffin lamented to his wife about the death

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Speaker 1: of quiz shows and the lack of public trust among

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Speaker 1: the few remaining in nineteen sixty three, his wife said

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Speaker 1: something along the lines of, why don't you give them

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Speaker 1: the answers? He was concerned the show wouldn't have enough

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Speaker 1: tension that drama, so she said, why not take the

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Speaker 1: money away? That'll put him in Jeopardy, And thus Jeopardy

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Speaker 1: was bored. Yes, so in the wake of the scandal.

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Speaker 1: Game shows were relegated to daytime TV in the sixties,

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Speaker 1: but had to come back in the seventies. But they

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Speaker 1: were pretty low priority in the eighties and nineties from networks,

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Speaker 1: so the Game Show Network launched in nine four. Game

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Speaker 1: shows are going through a pretty big revival right now,

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Speaker 1: initially sparked by the popularity of the two thousand two

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Speaker 1: debut of the American version of Who Wants to Be

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Speaker 1: a Millionaire? I remember, several are being rebooted for primetime

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Speaker 1: along with the original concepts, and of course some shows

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Speaker 1: never went away. Speaking of Jeopardy, this is a fifty

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Speaker 1: plus year old show that continues to draw over twenty

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Speaker 1: million viewers a week. The official website claims they get

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Speaker 1: nine million viewers a week. Right now, they're in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the Greatest of All Time tournament, which have

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Speaker 1: you seen the commercials. As they're walking, the competitors are

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Speaker 1: walking really dramatically. That's pretty um. Jeopardy and Will of

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Speaker 1: Fortune are among our most watched television shows. I kind

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Speaker 1: of blew in my mind. I mean, just think about

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Speaker 1: the older well, I guess my grandparents have passed away,

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Speaker 1: but that was one of the traditions that I would

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Speaker 1: walk in and seeing Will of Fortune. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's just an easy going guess the letter, guess the word.

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Speaker 1: Who doesn't love doing that? You know? I did win

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Speaker 1: a thousand dollars gambling on the Wheel of Fortune casino game.

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Speaker 1: It's a casino game. I guess that makes sense because

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about, right, I was thinking about all

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Speaker 1: of the different game shows that have turned into like

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Speaker 1: home games or vice versa. It's kind of interesting to see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure, I have friends my age that watched Jeopardy regularly,

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Speaker 1: and I always gotta get a chuckhole when I'm at

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Speaker 1: a bar, and that's what's on the television, and people

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Speaker 1: are into it. Right again, my friend who was on it,

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Speaker 1: she watched it every I don't know if you watched

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Speaker 1: it every day, but like you watched it enough to

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Speaker 1: know how this works. The best routes to go, what

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Speaker 1: information and what questions they may be. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: really fun just to see someone who's that dedicated and

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Speaker 1: loving the show. Yeah. Thomas Jay Lennaman conducted a study

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Speaker 1: called gender and Jeopardy intonation variation on a television game show,

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Speaker 1: which was really interesting because it looked into up talk

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Speaker 1: gender and Jeopardy because in the format of that show, yes,

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Speaker 1: you answer in the form of a question, yet most

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Speaker 1: people do that with a flat intonation as opposed to

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Speaker 1: the rise at the end of a sentence or sentence

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Speaker 1: arise at the end associated with questions and up talk.

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Speaker 1: Both men and women were more likely to use uptalk

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Speaker 1: when they answered incorrectly and with uncertainty. Women were far

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Speaker 1: likelier to use uptalk in general, even when answering correctly,

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Speaker 1: almost twice as much as men. Black women were far

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Speaker 1: less likely than white women to use uptalk when correct

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Speaker 1: The study also found that the more success a woman enjoys,

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Speaker 1: the greater her use of uptalk, perhaps as a way

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Speaker 1: to conform to gender norms, Women who show off their

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Speaker 1: knowledge are viewed as unfeminine shrews. Viewers may interpret this

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Speaker 1: as women being generally more uncertain and apologetic for success.

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Speaker 1: Men are more likely to use uptalk when correcting a

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Speaker 1: female contestants incorrect answer almost double, and the person who

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Speaker 1: conducted the study argues that this is important to talk

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Speaker 1: about because so many people do watch the show and

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Speaker 1: if kind of the impression we're getting as women are

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Speaker 1: apologetic or wrong, um, uncertain, I guess that that has

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Speaker 1: an impact. And just to uh clarify, I probably most

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Speaker 1: of you know, but up talk is the practice primarily

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Speaker 1: associated with women of ending phrases and sentences on a

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Speaker 1: higher note. So it's like California Valley Girls is the

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Speaker 1: traditional stereotypical example, like my name is Samantha, Hi, my

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Speaker 1: name is Annie. I do that all the time? It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like also kind of a question. Yes, So another

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Speaker 1: study found women take fewer risks on game shows. Over

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Speaker 1: the course of Jeopardies thirty plus seasons, men have earned

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Speaker 1: double the amount of women, despite pretty much the exact

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Speaker 1: same percentage of correct answers, women waging about half what

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Speaker 1: men do. I would do that too, honestly. Some other

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Speaker 1: interesting tidbits. About six contestants are male, and the most

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Speaker 1: common category is sports. Other studies I've argued that questions

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Speaker 1: askew masculine, and women only won fourteen percent of the

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Speaker 1: time in two thousand four. In twenty team that number

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Speaker 1: was over fifty. Still, only four women have won six

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Speaker 1: consecutive jeopardies as opposed to twenty men. Wow, yeah that's

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Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah. Game shows made one billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: AD revenue in twenty six so this is pretty lucrative category.

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Speaker 1: They are generally cheaper and easier to produce. Is it

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Speaker 1: including the items that they display such prices right itself?

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Speaker 1: That's true? Huh? What makes a good game show host?

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Speaker 1: When I asked that question, a lot of people say

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Speaker 1: things like confidence, humor, leadership, authority, a lot of things

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Speaker 1: that have been traditionally coded as masculine. However, another popular

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Speaker 1: trait given was generosity or empathy for the guests, which

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Speaker 1: is a very feminine coded thing reading the room essentially,

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Speaker 1: and in in our Dungeons and Dragons campaign as the

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Speaker 1: dungeon master, Oh I feel this. Yeah, we've talked about

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Speaker 1: how powerful you felt. Oh I do. I feel very power.

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Speaker 1: But also you've gotta it cracks me up, and that

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Speaker 1: nobody listens to this. I'm not going to kill them

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Speaker 1: unless they do something very terrible. But they're always so scared,

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Speaker 1: and so sometimes I have to, you know, put in

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Speaker 1: a little mother, Okay, nurturing a little bit of nurturing

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Speaker 1: in there. So let's talk about numbers. Historically, game show

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Speaker 1: hosts have been men. Surprise, surprise. A rough estimate puts

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Speaker 1: the number of American male game show host on television

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Speaker 1: since it was a thing at two, while women clocking

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Speaker 1: around twenty three. So there's ten times ten times more. Yeah, women,

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Speaker 1: do you dominate? Another aspect of game shows, though, One

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Speaker 1: feature of several of these shows are the typically female

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Speaker 1: models who show off the prizes are in the case

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Speaker 1: of Anna White, flip letters as well. Think Barker's Beauties

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Speaker 1: on the Prices right from Bob Barker previous host or

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Speaker 1: Dealer or No Deals twenty six models holding suitcases, including

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Speaker 1: at one time Megan Markel and Chrissie Diggen. Dealer Nodeal

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Speaker 1: was relaunched Ineen after a ten year hiatus after much debate,

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Speaker 1: they did bring back the so called suitcase girls. The

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Speaker 1: message could be read that these beautiful women are there

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Speaker 1: to serve you, that they might make your dreams come true.

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Speaker 1: They do very much seem like beautiful set pieces to

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Speaker 1: be objectified and consumed. And seriously, there's so many examples

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Speaker 1: of this, definitely more than there are female host Most

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Speaker 1: of these models were never even mentioned by name. Carol

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Speaker 1: Merrill of Let's Make a Deal was the first game

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Speaker 1: show model to become a household name, thanks to host

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Speaker 1: Monty Hall always referring to her by her full name.

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Speaker 1: According to her, she would receive letters asking if she

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Speaker 1: could even talk, to the point they made a joke

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Speaker 1: out of it in their two thousand episode when Meryll

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Speaker 1: finally talked, the gag being she did not stop talking.

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Speaker 1: She kept talking in right and kind of related. Vanna

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Speaker 1: White's seven memoir was entitled Venna Speaks. I always love

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Speaker 1: the ending though, when she and Pat would say goodbye

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Speaker 1: to the audiences, and it was like surprising to hear her,

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh why, oh really? Yeah. So another problem

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Speaker 1: almost all of these models are and have been white women.

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Bradley became the first long term black game show

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Speaker 1: of model on The Prices Right in nineteen and another

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Speaker 1: prof of them, Bob Barker in his show, were leveled

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Speaker 1: with several sexual harassment and workplace discrimination lawsuits, which Barker denies,

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Speaker 1: according to Gwendolyn Osborne Smith, a former Prices Right model.

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Speaker 1: When new host Drew Carey was asked what he wanted

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Speaker 1: the models to be called to replace Barker's beauties during

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Speaker 1: the interview process in two thousand seven, he said, they're

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Speaker 1: not mine. They're their own people, and you can call

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Speaker 1: them by their names. What a new filed concept. A

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Speaker 1: good guys by The models were outfitted with Mike's and

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Speaker 1: intoing twelve, the show hired their first male model. Nowadays

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Speaker 1: they have to I have no idea and just don't

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Speaker 1: you know. So. Most of these early games shows also

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Speaker 1: stuck to a strict gender role, meaning that female contestants

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Speaker 1: fault for prizes like cribs or groceries. Mrs goes a

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Speaker 1: shopping or supermarket sweep. Yeah in. Jane Lynch, host of

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Speaker 1: Hollywood Game Nights, said that the low numbers of female

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Speaker 1: game show hosts always surprises her. She told Hoffington Post

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Speaker 1: Hollywood Game Night might have started this revival, but there's

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Speaker 1: still no more female host. I'm the only one. There's

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Speaker 1: just kind of an inability to open up the mind,

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Speaker 1: I think to females hosting things, and after I read

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Speaker 1: that quote. I looked up how many women have hosted

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Speaker 1: the Oscars, and uh, not a lot. It's compared to

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Speaker 1: the usually that co hosting with someone Yeah yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: a future episode depending on your definition of game shows.

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Speaker 1: She is one of the only women hosting one on

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Speaker 1: network television. Ellen DeGeneres recently joined the Fray with Game

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Speaker 1: of Games, and while we are focusing on host today,

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Speaker 1: definitely don't want to downplay the women behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: making these shows happen, because that is a lot of

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Speaker 1: work without a lot of recognition. But we do have

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Speaker 1: some examples of a famous past female game show hosts

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Speaker 1: and some present But first we have a quick break

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Speaker 1: for words from our sponsor, ever' back, Thank you sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with Arlene Francis, who regularly featured on the

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Speaker 1: game show What's My Line for twenty five years, But

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Speaker 1: that wasn't her only claim to fame. She also worked

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Speaker 1: on her show Blind Date. Do you know Blind Date?

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Speaker 1: I try to remember. I know there's a game show

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Speaker 1: where I don't think this is the one where it

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Speaker 1: was a suial, Like we figured out a serial killer

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Speaker 1: on there as a contestant, but I don't think it

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Speaker 1: was a Blind Date. It was a dating show though, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll look into that later. Francis previously worked on radio shows,

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Speaker 1: including the nineteen forty three radio iteration of Blind Date, which,

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Speaker 1: as the name implies, is a mashmaking show. The show

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Speaker 1: transitioned to the new and rising medium of television in

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Speaker 1: ninety nine, and Francis continued her role as host, becoming

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Speaker 1: television's first ever female game show host here in the

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Speaker 1: United States. However, she didn't stick around very long. A

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Speaker 1: male host took over for her in nineteen fifty two,

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Speaker 1: but her success opened the door for her to appear

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Speaker 1: on What's My Line, and she secured another first soon

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Speaker 1: after when she was cast on the variety show Your

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Speaker 1: Show of Shows, becoming the first female MC or fim

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Speaker 1: C YEA so she was referred to. She returned to

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Speaker 1: radio in nineteen sixty one, launching The Arley and Francis Show,

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Speaker 1: which aired until nineteen nine, all while appearing on television.

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Speaker 1: And we got to talk about Betty White. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know she was going to come up. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea she was a host. I didn't either, But from

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Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties to the nineteen eighties, Betty White guessed

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Speaker 1: on all sorts of game shows, enough so she was

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Speaker 1: nicknamed the first Lady of game shows Pyramid password to

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Speaker 1: tell the truth. She even took over hosting from Gene

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Speaker 1: Rayburn for around During one of her appearances on Match Game,

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Speaker 1: she started hosting her own show in called Just Men,

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Speaker 1: with an exclamation mark yeah from it, like I thought

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Speaker 1: you were talking about the ham product. Just four men,

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Speaker 1: Just Men, Just Men. Two female contestants would face off

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Speaker 1: to claim the prize, which was a car. The men

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Speaker 1: on Justaman came in the form of seven male celebrities.

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Speaker 1: The female contestants had to guess how these male celebrities

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Speaker 1: would answer to yes or no questions, and if the

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Speaker 1: female contestant was right, the male celebrity would give the

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Speaker 1: contestant a key that might White belonged to the car

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Speaker 1: up for grabs. For her work on this show, White

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Speaker 1: won the Daytime Emmy for Outstanding Game Show Host, the

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Speaker 1: first woman to do so, beating out Dick Clark and

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Speaker 1: Richard Dawson. However, the show was short lived, ending the

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Speaker 1: same year it began after only sixty five episodes due

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Speaker 1: to the viewership. I can't say I've ever heard of

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Speaker 1: that game me. So after her stint as a Playboy Buddy,

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Speaker 1: and because I remembered this game show probably clearly was

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Speaker 1: Jenny McCarthy went on, who went on to co host

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Speaker 1: MTVS singled out, which, by the way, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it sounds so problematic. Yeah, it really sounds like it

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Speaker 1: was started thinking about it at that point. It was

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Speaker 1: the nineties. It was when they were going to the

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Speaker 1: beach house and everything was sexy and cool and fun,

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Speaker 1: and she wanted to be a part of that, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, she's so cool, which was like again

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Speaker 1: a sort of a guess who like dating game and

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Speaker 1: she was super hanzy, raunchy and grows And apparently that

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Speaker 1: was one of the things that she had talked about

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Speaker 1: later when she was being interviewed about the show and

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Speaker 1: the experience, as was the fact that she was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm tired of being objectified my turn, essentially, and she

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Speaker 1: just went all in and they gave her permission to

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Speaker 1: be that absurd, so she went again all in. So

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Speaker 1: apparently it's being rebooted to encompass all genders and sexual preferences. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if this is gonna include Jenny McCarthy or not.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. Almost every show remissioning is actually

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Speaker 1: in the process of being reputed, right, fascinating, I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't think she came up and when I was

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Speaker 1: reading the press release about it, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: people are going to really be down for Jenny McCarthy

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Speaker 1: and her anti vaccine stances. Yeah, I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: In the nineties. Also in the nineties, at two time

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Speaker 1: Olympic swimming gold medalists, Summer Sanders became Nickelodeon's first female

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Speaker 1: game show host on Figure It Out, also being rebooted.

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Speaker 1: She has said she's interested. She said she found out

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Speaker 1: about this on Twitter and is interested in coming back

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Speaker 1: and guest it. Yeah, and I remember this. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand one, the we Guess Link right, the Weakest Link,

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Speaker 1: Thank You for that correction, premiered in the United States,

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Speaker 1: which was This was the US version of a British show.

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Speaker 1: It was hosted by Anne Robinson. The UK's quote Queen

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Speaker 1: of Mean and just saying you are the weakest link

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Speaker 1: goodbye was all our age for a while, and despite

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Speaker 1: the catchy slogan, the show only lasted two seasons, but

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Speaker 1: it felt like a long right It really like. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it was on every sitcom. Yeah, in that

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Speaker 1: time frame. Yeah, I read a lot of essays about

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Speaker 1: this in particular, and was it basically promoting the view

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Speaker 1: of women as like shrews and mean and bitchy? It

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Speaker 1: kind of did. I Yeah, I guess so. I just

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Speaker 1: remember being like a harsh schoolmarm so B Burns accepted

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Speaker 1: the gig of hosting g S Sens The Chase In,

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Speaker 1: and she hosted a couple of others. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: all of them, but I don't know. I've seen her

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Speaker 1: during her good thing. Um. And also she is a

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Speaker 1: former Baywatch cast member. Did not know that? Twenty two

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Speaker 1: years after Betty White's historic win, Meredith Fierra won an

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Speaker 1: Emmy for Outstanding Game Show Host for Who Wants to

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Speaker 1: Be a Millionaire, which she took over hosting Beauties from

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Speaker 1: Regis Philbin and moved it to from prime time to

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Speaker 1: daily syndication. She hosted for eleven years. Wow, I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that long. Yeah. She won a second Emmy for

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Speaker 1: Outstanding Game Show Host and Trail Base for Women in

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Speaker 1: the Game show World In Another Way by co executive

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Speaker 1: producing three sixty five episodes. Kim Coles became the first

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Speaker 1: black woman to host a primetime at game show with

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Speaker 1: pay It Off in two thousand nine. And for those

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Speaker 1: who are really jazz still about daytime game shows, Leslie

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Speaker 1: Jones just signed to be the new host for Supermarket Sweep,

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Speaker 1: which we talked about being really really um kind of

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Speaker 1: misogynistic a little bit. We're very sexually. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if it's all women and well, we'll see, we'll see.

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Speaker 1: I'm jure Leslie won't let that happen. Um, which has

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Speaker 1: already been in the UK, and the contract process apparently

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Speaker 1: took a long time and it was a whole bidding

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Speaker 1: war for the different networks to get it. So Supermarket

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Speaker 1: Sweek is like you have a cart and I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to have to you and a partner have to get

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Speaker 1: a certain amount. I honestly don't know. I just remember

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Speaker 1: seeing them in T shirts, matching T shirts, getting ready

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Speaker 1: to go with our cards and then just scrambling through

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Speaker 1: and like, I don't know if they're trying to like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know they're trying. I think it was something okay,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was value based. I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: like a top chef level of you've got thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: to this, but you only have five minutes to do this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of funny because we were talking about this

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Speaker 1: before we started rolling out. A lot of American game

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Speaker 1: shows are seen as too competitive and loud for other

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Speaker 1: for international markets, which I find very funny. You know,

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Speaker 1: we did talk about the fight. When you look at

428
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: um some of the UK game shows, it's very calm,

429
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: which is relaxed because if and I was inaus links example,

430
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: we have but everybody tells me about the Great British

431
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: bake Off that they're so nice and that's why they

432
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: like Then I researched and told you they only get

433
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 1: flowers and recognition. Yes, but like if you do as

434
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: we were talking about Top Chef thousand in each gate

435
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: each episode, you probably want either a car or ten

436
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: thousand extra dollars or a trip to Spain. So it's

437
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: kind of giant amounts of money. Yeah, but to be fair,

438
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: I think they have more sponsors if you watch British

439
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: bake Off versus Top Chef, like Top Chef is like

440
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: sponsored by Serene rap people I can't remember, but I

441
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: was glad. Yes, there you go a lot of glad

442
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: things having recently, it used to be Toyota and the

443
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: newest episodes or the newest season that I watched was BMW,

444
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: so it went up significantly. Sure, well, that is a

445
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: world I will probably research, even though I don't have

446
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: time to do anything and work right now, but probably

447
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: do it. We do have one more thing we wanted

448
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: to talk about when it comes to women in game shows,

449
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: but first we have one more group break for word

450
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: for a sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Before

451
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: we close that, we did want to touch on something

452
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: called the Monty Hall problem. So imagine this scenario. You

453
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: are on a game show with three doors. Behind one

454
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: of the numbered doors is a new car. Behind the

455
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: other two goats. You choose door number one. The host, Monty,

456
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: who knows what's behind all the doors, opens door number two,

457
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: revealing a goat. Then he asked you, if you want

458
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: to switch doors, what do you do? Well, this might

459
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: seem like a simple thing. Most people would say it's

460
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter, but they're our whole books that

461
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: have been written about this, And if you're wondering why

462
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: we're talking about it, we've got to talk about Marylyn

463
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: Voss Savant, a child prodigy born in Missouri in nine Seriously,

464
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: the Guinnest Book of World Records awarded her for having

465
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: the world's highest i Q, and she was known as

466
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: the world's smartest woman. Perhaps worth noting she does not

467
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: think the i Q test necessarily is a good measure

468
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: of i Q. But she's smart. She's very smart. Parade

469
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: magazine offered her a full time gig, and she created

470
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: a column called Ask Maryland, which was a weekly column

471
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: where people could write in with academic questions or puzzles

472
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: and she would answer them. A reader wrote in about

473
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: the Monty Hall problem. Basically, given that scenario that we

474
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: just discussed, should you switch doors? She answered it in

475
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: her column, probably thinking nothing of it, just another day

476
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: answering this question. And yeah, while most people assume it

477
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter because your chances are now fifty, it's

478
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: actually better to switch. There's a one third chance of

479
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: winning by staying with the same door, and a two

480
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: thirds chance of winning if you switch, she politely explained.

481
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: Then came over ten thousand letters claiming she was stupid,

482
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: several from scholars and PhDs. She was called names and

483
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: assailed with gender stereotypes. Here's a taste of some of

484
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: the letters she received. Again world's smartest woman providing the

485
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: correct answer, and also shout out to Prisonomics for this

486
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: roundup of letters. Example number one, you blew it and

487
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: you blew it big, since you seem to have a

488
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: difficulty grasping the basic principle at work. Here Alice Lane.

489
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: After the host reveals a goat, you know you have

490
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: one in two chances of being correct. Whether you change

491
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: your selection or not, the odds are the same. There's

492
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: enough mathematical and literacy in this country, and we don't

493
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: need the world's highest i Q propagating more shame exclamation

494
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: point from Scott Smith, PhD at the University of Florida.

495
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,239
Speaker 1: And here's another. May I suggest that you obtain and

496
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: refer to a standard textbook on probability before you try

497
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: to answer a question of this type. Again from Charles

498
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: read To, PhD, University of Florida to Florida. So here's

499
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: one from Georgia State University. I'm sure you will receive

500
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: many letters on the topic from high school and college students.

501
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: Perhaps you should keep a few addresses for help with

502
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: future columns. W Robert Smith, PhD. You are utterly incorrect

503
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: about the game show question. And I hope this controversy

504
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: will call some public attention to the serious national crisis

505
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: and mathematical education. If you can admit your error, you

506
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: have contributed constructively towards the solution of a deplorable situation.

507
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: How many I rate mathematicians are needed to get you

508
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: to change your mind? From Era Bo that's fantastic, So

509
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: another one. You made a mistake, But look at the

510
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: positive side. If all those PhD s were wrong, the

511
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: country would be in some very serious trouble. Everett Harmon, PhD.

512
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: You as Army Research Institute. You are the goat from

513
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: Glenn Colkins, Western State College. I love that emphasis. Thank

514
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: you for that. Oh absolutely, Maybe women look at math

515
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: problems differently than men from Don Edwards and Center Over Oregon.

516
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: So condescending and if you'll notice all men and the

517
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: follow out. She wrote three more columns about the Monty

518
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: Hall problem to prove that she was correct. Even over

519
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: a year later, people still doubted her, insulted her, and

520
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: questioned her intelligence, of course, and one man wrote in

521
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: I still think you're wrong. There's so such thing as

522
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: a female logic. Well, sure, if you're female and you

523
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: have logic or any type of thinking. Still, yes, sure, sure,

524
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: thanks for that. Yes, this did change over the years,

525
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: this kind of backlash, especially as computer models were built

526
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: that showed g was correct. It took computers, They took computers.

527
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: A lot of these academics wrote in admitted that they

528
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: had been wrong. But yeah, it took a computer for

529
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: people to believe the so called smartest woman in the world.

530
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: And all of this condescending, insulting, and almost triumphant nature

531
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: in their responses is very telling about how we view

532
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 1: women's intelligence, competence, and authority, especially in traditionally masculine fields

533
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: like math. Right, yeah, and um, if people right into

534
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: Tela's we're wrong about this, I'm going to break something. Yes.

535
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: And this is still a topic that is debated in

536
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: the academic community. Really, it seriously is, although largely in

537
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: terms of host psychology right as it should be talking

538
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: about the idea of man's plaining in general. Right before

539
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: and I think what we're gonna do if we do

540
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: get some more um conversations about the money halb, Yeah,

541
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: and and that it or wrong or that we're wrong. Um,

542
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: We're going to have a giant breaking everything party. Yes,

543
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: this is our our warning to our boss. We're gone

544
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: all rage. Yeah, and I seriously I did read the

545
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: current arguments around it, and some of them espouse Essentially

546
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: what she was saying is correct, but for the wrong reasons.

547
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's the that's the way to clarify. She's

548
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: still wrong. She might be right, but she's still wrong.

549
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: You know. That's the tight rope that we walk. Of course,

550
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: of course, but that's what we have to say about

551
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: women and game shows in this really fascinating, surprisingly fascinating

552
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: world of game shows. It is, And if you have

553
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: been through that door, either working on one or competing

554
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: on one, or if you just have any game shows stories,

555
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: please send them to us. I really really enjoyed all

556
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: the researcher this one. You can email us at Stuff Media,

557
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find

558
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram

559
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: at stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to

560
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: our missing super producer Andrew Howard. He left us for

561
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: a meeting. Horrible, just horrible, And thanks to you for

562
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: listening Stuff I've Never Told You. He's a production of

563
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: I Heart Radios. How Stuff Works For more podcasts, for

564
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever.

565
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: If you're listening to your favorite shows,