1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: All zone media. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: When therefore a man is told you your inner being 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: are so and so because your skull bone is so constituted, 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 2: this means nothing else than that we regard a bone 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: as the man's reality. To retort upon such a statement, 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: the retort here would properly speaking, have to go to 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: the link, so breaking the skull of the person who 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: makes a statement like that, in order to demonstrate to 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: him in a manner as palpable as his own wisdom, 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: that a bone is nothing of an inherent nature at 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: all for a man still less his true reality. Welcome 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: tock da here, I'm your host, Bia Wong. That was 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: the man himself, George Wilhelm Frederick Hegel from the Phenomenology 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: of Mind. 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 3: I'm gonna go full Ceesar shape post here like that's 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 3: not Hegel? 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: Lovely and with the iss as as you have just heard. 18 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: Is Emmie Flores, a queer socialist in Mexico City who's 19 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: we've had on the show before to talk about Mexican turfs, 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: has worked with Zappotisea Networks, and we are once again, 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: I think, delving into the terrifying, extremely well organized worlds 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: of Mexican turfs, and I guess this is kind of 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 2: a they're eating a bit of shit episode. 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, which is good. 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 5: We have good news in this show. 26 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 4: Whoo very rare occurrence we have. We have a little 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 4: bit of good news. Yeah. Also, welcome to the show. 28 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 4: Excited to have you back. 29 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 5: I love it. 30 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: I love the show, and I'm happy to update because 31 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 3: last time we left on a real sour note and 32 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: this time, I mean, it's not exactly fantastic news, but 33 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: things are looking up in this specific part, and I 34 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 3: think you're going to introduce us to a massive double 35 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 3: we just got worldwide. 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we ended up not doing a full episode 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: on this, but one of the big sort of stories 38 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: for the last few weeks. 39 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 4: And I don't know. 40 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: When this episode is gonna be coming out, so maybe 41 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: this is gonna be ancient news by that point. But 42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: the day we're recording this is like one day after 43 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: the Aegerian boxer in mon khalif U I won the 44 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: gold medal of the Olympics. She has been I mean, 45 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: this story has been sort of beaten to death, but 46 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: like she's been like accused of being a man and 47 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: being like transgender, and like all of this shit from 48 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of like I mean, everyone from like 49 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: Elon Musk to like jk Rowling to Meggan. Kelly's losing 50 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: her mind about it. I forgot she even existed until this, 51 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: but she's apparently around and doing. 52 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 4: This, you know. 53 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: So so I think people sort of know the basics 54 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: of this story, but there's a part of the story 55 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: about sort of you know, I will, I guess we'll 56 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: probably get into a little bit of this about how 57 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: a lot of this is sort of manufactured by a 58 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: bunch of incredibly sore losers and like weird transphobes in 59 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: a incredibly corrupt like Russian ran boxing association, right right. 60 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: But the other side of this, it has gotten absolutely 61 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: zero coverage anywhere. Is that a huge amount of the 62 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: attacks against against her were started by the Mexican Turf Network. 63 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, and so. 64 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 3: Presently one of the few coverages I've seen has been 65 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 3: in Mexican like feminist news, which is like part of 66 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: the things that have changed since then, like Mexican and 67 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: Latin American feminists have realized, oh, we fucked up, and 68 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: we're trying to fix our mistakes. But sadly, I think 69 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: the world suffered one of our latest mistakes. 70 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, so can you tell us about sort of how 71 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: this whole thing started, which I think is like several 72 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: years earlier than most people seem to really like understand. 73 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 3: I think the corruption angle that we might expand a 74 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: little bit more, that is the beginning of it. And 75 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: I think it was a little bit and then it 76 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 3: was like in the wrong place at the wrong time. 77 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 5: Let's be real, she won gold. 78 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 3: I was not bidding on her winning gold. Like, she's 79 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: really good, but she's not like the buffest out there. 80 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 3: It's pure racism and convenience that she's been labeled and 81 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 3: targeted the way the way she is because like you 82 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: see her opponents and there are the buffiest girls I've 83 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 3: ever seen in my life. They're incredible, Like every single 84 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 3: athlete up there is amazing. And took pictures of her 85 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 3: and say, you're telling me this is not a man 86 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 3: Like she's like a little bit skinny, honestly, Like she's 87 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: really tall, so she has to be skinny to be 88 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: competing that way. 89 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: It's like have you have people ever seen a boxer before, 90 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: Like it's just bad, Like one of. 91 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: The boxers that defended her, like she was offended, Like 92 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: you're telling me that I've been in many before and 93 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: like I didn't even qualify for these years Olympics. Like 94 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 3: she's not invincible, even if this is probably her best 95 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 3: best performance. Yeah, she really shown on the spotlight. I 96 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: love her, but like she's not extremely muscular or anything. 97 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 3: Not that being muscular is masculine, but like this was 98 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: really just both racism and convenience. But part of that 99 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: is uh. One of the first people who started complaining 100 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 3: about this after the corrupt Russian Russian oliger Glad bucks 101 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 3: in Federation that got disqualified from the Olympics. 102 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, like again I want to I want to pause here, 103 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: and everyone like take note of this. Do you understand 104 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: how corrupt of an organization do you have to be 105 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: for the fucking Olympics to stop working with you? Like 106 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: you have to make the Chicago fucking machine look squeaky 107 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: clean for for the Olympics to not work. 108 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: Like we're talking about every single other sport is also 109 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: wing ship like this, Like they just went to greedy 110 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: like they like it some Russian oligarch that got into 111 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 3: fights with people during the war in Ukraine and then 112 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: they didn't stop doing corruption, Like they couldn't just take 113 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: a year break, they. 114 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 5: Had to push. Yeah, they had to play two dirty. 115 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: So at the end of the day, Imanicat disqualified with like, 116 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 3: trust me, pro levels of citations for her. No one 117 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: knew for a while what was the thing that disqualified her. 118 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 3: What was it hormones or chromosomes, vibes? It turns out 119 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 3: it's mostly vibes. Yeah, And so when when she got 120 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: disqualified from a not an Olympic event, but uh corrupt 121 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: Russian arclead event, a former boxer who lost against her, 122 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: who's from Mexico, who sucks ass like she's really dog shit. 123 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 3: She started posting pictures of her ruses after the match, 124 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: and honestly, she reminds me of the Italian boxer that 125 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 3: also got her ship rocks. Yeah, because they keep She 126 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: did perform very well in many at the at the 127 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: end when when she got gold, but the very first 128 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 3: like matches she got were against like how did these 129 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: people get here? 130 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, like that that Italian boxer, Like this is the 131 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: only time I will ever say this about something that 132 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: happened in the Olympics. 133 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 4: It's like the Italian boxer threw the. 134 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: Worst punch I've ever seen and then instantly got punched 135 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: by like the most obvious punch of the entire world 136 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: in the face. 137 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 4: It's like, wait, what are you doing? How did you 138 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 4: get here? 139 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 3: Like and like I won't go deep into why why 140 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: Brianda Tamara sucks so much as because that would have 141 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: been the episode we ended up not doing, but suffice 142 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 3: it to say, like she's just not in that level. 143 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 3: She didn't qualify for a reason this time. But and 144 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 3: also I noticed that she was waiting to do her 145 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: pro deview right now, like something fill planned about all 146 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: of this. Yeah, Like she she announced that she retired 147 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 3: from amateur boxing, which you know, not honestly is the 148 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: more legit boxing, don't at me. And she she's going 149 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 3: bro which means she's now charging for tickets. And she 150 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,679 Speaker 3: announced her pro deview the same day that this whole 151 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 3: like bundles started for international people watching the Olympics, Like 152 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: she very much knew that the people were gonna try something. 153 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so she so she's using this just like boxing promoting, yeah, 154 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: pretty much, which is like the shady shit, Yeah, boxing. 155 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: Promoting in Cinela, which like if you know anything about Mexico, 156 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 3: that's that's gonna. 157 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 5: Be a couple of red less oh boy. But so 158 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 5: the thing is, why did she knew that she was 159 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 5: gonna happen? Really says a lot about how international terms. 160 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: Are operating nowadays, right like I don't want to get 161 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: all fucking Russia Gate and like like have my fucking 162 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 3: prosecure body pillow like some leaves have. But terms are 163 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 3: trying to get money and influence anywhere they can, and 164 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 3: some of them are trying to get in from Russia, 165 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: right like yeah, it's if they're already putting people in 166 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 3: concretion camps in China, like they say, hell, yeah, I 167 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 3: want me some of that. And you know the Brits 168 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 3: are something too focused on Britain. You need something international 169 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 3: to make them. Money flowed down to Latin America, especially 170 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,359 Speaker 3: out of Spain. Spain kind of hawks it all for themselves. 171 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: The first news site that took the years ago translated 172 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 3: it to English is called Redox Magazine. Like that, I 173 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: think it's a Canadian joint Redos. It's the only side 174 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: I've seen in all of like the turf landscape that 175 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: only publishes in English and Spanish. Like it's very clearly 176 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 3: a fulcrum for like terf organizing in Latin America and 177 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: in the anglosphere. And I don't think it's a coincidence 178 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 3: that this story broke quote unquote, like the first people 179 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 3: who commented on this and like renewed the accusations of 180 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 3: Imani being trans was Redocs and then other like transphobic 181 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 3: boxing coaches from Italy and England and the United States 182 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: started picking up the story. But that was after like 183 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: the more diplomatically minded Mexican term and Spanish TERFs that 184 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 3: usually don't work together. 185 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 5: Again, they don't like to share. 186 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: Listen, Mexico doesn't have the best relationship with Spain for 187 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: allvious reasons. Yeah, but even then, like ass spaces for 188 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 3: TERFs in Mexico had been closing, they're looking for funding 189 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: from other places. Right, the turf gambit didn't work quite 190 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,239 Speaker 3: well in Mexico, so they're trying to look for international 191 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: sponsor sponsorships, and they thought they had hit a big 192 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: one here. They had the attention of the entire world. 193 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 3: People were sharing Brianda's photos because like again Brianda doesn't 194 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 3: have it's not a good boxer, so she looks like 195 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 3: a young short prelated like beer barista, and put her 196 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 3: against like someone who's like a head taller that beat 197 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: her ass because she she sucks. 198 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 5: They couldn't ask for a very propaganda. 199 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it really backfired when the entire world went, 200 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 3: what what are you talking about? Yeah, but I think 201 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 3: it worked for Mexican TERFs. I think that they might 202 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 3: get like a couple of grants here and there they're 203 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: back in the railar at least internationally. 204 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 5: And that's why I. 205 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 3: Think coming here is really important because we didn't win precisely, 206 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 3: and we'll get to that, but at least we're in 207 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 3: a stalemate, and I think they're trying to look for 208 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 3: either allies or honestly job s elsewhere. 209 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 5: They might just want a spot in Riddos. 210 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: Magazine, like to get into like be able to move 211 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 3: to Britain or shit like that. 212 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 213 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 2: I think it is just something that is important about 214 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: the Mexican TERFs, which is like unlike in the US, 215 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: where there's just this like unbelievably large pot of money 216 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: that you can tap into from like the Heritry Foundation 217 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: and like all of these sort of like right wing 218 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: think tanks. It's like the funding is a lot harder 219 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: to come by. 220 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 5: We all have troubles getting funding. 221 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, any type of small grant that would be a 222 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: nothing burger in America goes a long way here, right, 223 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 3: And so the far right has been really smart pushing. 224 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 5: Stuff, but it hasn't really paid diviends. 225 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 3: And uh, it's all gonna write up for a while, honestly, 226 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 3: especially with like how the economy is going. 227 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 5: I think in the age of infinite. 228 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 3: Money of twenty twenty, like they were willing to throw 229 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 3: more money at like a long shot that in Brasila 230 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 3: or Mexico right now. They got to bring something to 231 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 3: the table, and they tried to bring in money, and 232 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 3: they I think they fucking ate shit. 233 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 2: Hell yeah, So okay, you know what else brings something 234 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: to the table? It is the products and services that 235 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: I put food on my table. I guess God all 236 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: the other pars. 237 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 6: Of this. 238 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 7: Here are these ads and we are back. 239 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: So I wanted to kind of move to talking about 240 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: what's been happening in this sort of Mexican feminist scene 241 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: in in terms of sort of what's what's been going 242 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 2: on with turf since the election of the new Mexican president, 243 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: Claudia Shamebomb. Who's I don't know, Like I think a 244 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 2: lot of Americans, I think the conception of her is 245 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: that she's like significantly further left and she actually is. 246 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like I you know what, I felt so 247 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 3: much Scott and Freud when like people started talking about 248 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,479 Speaker 3: Kamala like she was gonna end aparthype and and the general. 249 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 5: Side, and I was like, how does see it? Fucking 250 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 5: feel sorry? 251 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 3: I got really angry at every single article no one 252 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: talked her correctly, like both the far right and the 253 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 3: left thought she was significantly to the left, like everyone said, like, oh, 254 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: finally a feminist Jewish woman, and like the Jewish Party 255 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 3: is gonna play a part because like I do feel 256 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: we're gonna see a rise in anti Semitism in Mexico, 257 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 3: a big one. Like I feel like a Birther style 258 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 3: movement from when Obama was lifted coming up and it's 259 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 3: gonna play again. I see Claudia shamebamb She's not just 260 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 3: an extension of Amla, and she is I would say, 261 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 3: not further to the left then, and there's whatever, but 262 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 3: she has less right wing things, right, It's not like 263 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 3: she's better than anload, she's just less worse. 264 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 5: She's she because like almost. 265 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: Like an old Christian guy, like and I do mean 266 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 3: Christian like this is a Catholic country, Anamlod is like 267 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: I think it's he's like Pentecostal or something like he's 268 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: never needed like what his relatives said, but he did 269 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: do like weird right wing things, especially culturally, well I 270 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 3: mean not everywhere right, Like we got hell of militarized, 271 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: like half our infrastructure is owned by the military now, 272 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 3: which is like just Jack Carton metoying ourselves like for free. 273 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 3: And he goes on brands about how drugs are caused 274 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 3: by buying video games and like like he like for 275 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: for a week, try to like say we should ban Fortnite. 276 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 3: That didn't know anywhere, and I think it was just 277 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 3: because his son didn't stop playing it. 278 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 5: Maybe he he overspent on the family credit. But like yeah, 279 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 5: he's very like he. 280 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: Has a very Christian morality and it's a weird fit 281 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: with Mexicans Catholic one in the weirdest way. Like his 282 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: very like work will like very Protestant ethics guy, and 283 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 3: people didn't talk about that and now they think Claudia 284 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 3: is gonna bring like Jewish ethics and no, she's like 285 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: just like a Mexican scientist, like professional, like she's very 286 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: much a scientist at least that that's her self conception 287 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 3: and how she operates. And she I think a lot 288 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 3: of people underestimated her, like they just saw her as 289 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: an appendage of Handlow, like with no real political document 290 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: or skill of herself. She doesn't really have a base 291 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 3: of voters. Again, she's like an academic, like her base 292 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 3: of voters are college graduates left lining college garrets, but 293 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 3: not too left learning because otherwise you'll see, like, hey, 294 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: please stop. 295 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 5: Militaries in our country. 296 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 3: And so we didn't expect her to to who win 297 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 3: with like the margins that she did. She won with 298 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 3: historic margins, more votes than a logout. It's just she's 299 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 3: so fucking. 300 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 5: Shrud And this ties to the TERFs because like four 301 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 5: years we were really worried because. 302 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: Like we thought she was a turf, Like we straight 303 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: up thought she was a turf, even though she passed 304 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 3: some of the largest like trans positive legislations in Mexico 305 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 3: City that was more like momentum from Mexico City being 306 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: like this progressive center of Mexican politics. And like, I know, 307 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 3: I participated in getting that law pass like like she 308 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 3: wasn't happy about that. She basically was trying to get 309 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: some Heritage Foundation funded folks to sit in a table 310 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: and like have a big discussion, like a very very 311 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 3: centrist thing of like let's listen to both sides. And 312 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 3: it's because she had like some of the og turfs 313 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: from Mexico, like from some of them, like that started 314 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: in the seventies, Like people who knew Jennys Raymond when 315 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 3: she was young were literally in Morena structure, like during 316 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 3: twenty twenty, like the Women's Agenda for Morena was set 317 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 3: by turfs, by some of the the worst turfs, like 318 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: some of the most internationally well connected turfs too, right, 319 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 3: and that was a huge problem. We managed to push 320 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: back against that with protests, with like talking to politicians, 321 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 3: like not really begging, we just you know, that's a 322 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 3: nice wind you have there. 323 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 5: That would be a shame thing happened too. 324 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 3: And also that by like my my collective, like we 325 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 3: started focusing on like oh god, I don't want to 326 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: say anymore becaus like since since Ukraine, like saying, oh, 327 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 3: since it's so Crain. But like we started like investigating 328 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 3: and like tracking, like these people start showing up in 329 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 3: like government positions. 330 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 5: That was really worrying. 331 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: Some of them were like very clearly affiliated with the 332 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 3: far right, but some of them were they came from 333 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 3: like union jobs on and she like that, or they 334 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 3: were like they were the anarchists throwing bricks that walls 335 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 3: like a year ago, and we started seeing them get 336 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 3: co opted slowly, and we were really scared. But then 337 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,479 Speaker 3: I think we underestimated that Claudia was playing us, but 338 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 3: she was also playing them, like she is. 339 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 5: A really shrewd political operator, and she. 340 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 3: Gave TERFs enough to get them to do what TERFs 341 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 3: do best, which is break up feminist organizing. Yeah, so 342 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 3: whatever Cloudy I could not directly co opt to like 343 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 3: get like leaders, there were some like black Blocks in 344 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 3: Mexico whose leaders like literally had in their linkedins that 345 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 3: they were like doing. 346 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 5: Like black blood shit. 347 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 4: Oh my god, I know, it's incredible, And. 348 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 3: It just gave everything away because the same person who 349 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 3: did that had in her LinkedIn like a year previously 350 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 3: that she was like an eighty for a Morena congress woman. 351 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 352 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 5: And yeah, I. 353 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 3: Think what Morena did was infiltrate a lot of black 354 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 3: Blocks to neutralize because during twenty twenty two years after 355 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 3: Amlo got elected, like Mexican feminists were I would say 356 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 3: the biggest fire in social movements in Mexico, like with 357 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 3: the Sapatistas getting surrounded by state sponsored narco cartels and stuff, 358 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: like they were really paralyzed and with COVID and everything 359 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: like that, like a lot of other organizing got real damaged. 360 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 3: But feminists were like they were trying to get abortion passed, 361 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: and they succeeded for most of it. But like institutional 362 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 3: feminists succeeded banning abortion and more independent or street anarchists, 363 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 3: socialist based feminists, they suddenly didn't have anything to demand, 364 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 3: so they either got kushi government jobs, or they got arrested, 365 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 3: or they helped the police arrest people, like by being 366 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: like clearly just like you know the classic like eight 367 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 3: people get arrested and one of them gets out in 368 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 3: like a week, and it's like ah yeah. And so 369 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: like feminists got are road awakening, and before they were 370 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 3: more permissive like cool feminists like real leftists, socialists and 371 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 3: queer feminists were more permissive of turfs during like the 372 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen two twenty twenty two because they thought, like 373 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 3: we need unity within feminism, we need to like get 374 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 3: a version passed, we need to like combat both the 375 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 3: far right and anulost conservatism, and well they won, and 376 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 3: a bunch of their leaders got go up to we 377 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 3: have an epidemic of like feminist activists passing laws. 378 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 5: With their names. 379 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: Like the one movement that got defeated the worst is 380 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: anti car solo feminism. Like forget about abolitionism in the 381 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 3: carcal sense. It's no one gave a shit about that. 382 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 3: Even anarchists were trying to pass laws to like lay 383 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: Olivia to scalp thats who haven't paid child support. Like 384 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 3: they really bet everything on punitivism. And that's the thing 385 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 3: that united like every single segment of feminism, including ratference centers, 386 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 3: Like they love. 387 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 5: Putting people in jail. It's their whole entire deal. 388 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 3: And so, but the thing is, that's the way you 389 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 3: get You co opt someone, You just tell her okay, 390 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 3: instead of like being an archopunk like doing tagging government buildings. 391 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 5: What if I just give you a shit a lot 392 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 5: of money and I pay for. 393 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 3: You to go to fancy hotels in every state and 394 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 3: like talk about how important it is that we throw 395 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 3: your x into a. 396 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 5: Into a meat processing machine for like breaking up with you. 397 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean I'm being believed, like there's horrible shit, 398 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 3: like we have to pass a lot to like give 399 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 3: more time to people who through asset at women's faces, right, 400 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 3: but like. 401 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 5: That's already legal. It's already legal. 402 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: I don't know if it's gonna work that well, especially 403 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 3: because like I think one of the most biggest cases 404 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 3: of like a literal trafficker just got off jail this 405 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 3: week and he literally tortured one of Mexico's biggest rod films, 406 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 3: And it's like, what did he you did? Did this 407 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 3: all for nothing? Like you're just gonna like lock up 408 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 3: more poor people and like rich assholes are gonna walk free. Yeah, 409 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 3: and so yeah, that was twenty twenty. Then it got 410 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 3: co opted and just like Claudia gave us some loss 411 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 3: for trans people. 412 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 5: She put turfs in government positions. 413 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 3: We protested that, and then she dropped them, like she 414 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 3: really did a andy with. 415 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 5: Woody, like I don't want to play with you anymore. 416 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 3: Like once she neutralized the feminist movement, once there were 417 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 3: like there was no threat of escalation, she really didn't 418 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 3: need the black the fake black blocks, She just you 419 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 3: know dropped them. 420 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And speaking of fake black blocks, you too could 421 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: buy a fake flack flock from. 422 00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 6: These products and services, and we are back. 423 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's get into what's been happening in kind 424 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: of present day. The thing that's really interesting to me 425 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: about like about the way that sort of Mexican turf 426 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 2: stuff works is that they in a way that's kind 427 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 2: I don't know, American TERFs kind of work like this, 428 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 2: Like they really function in a very similar way to 429 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: like left social movements, right, except that they're like newer 430 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 2: world social movement for evil. But it's like like they 431 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: have a lot of the same kind of like strengths 432 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: and weaknesses that that like conventional like social movements have, 433 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: which I think ties into a lot of what's going 434 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: to happen to them and the fact that you can 435 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 2: you know, and in the same way that you can 436 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: co opt to social movement, like they're also vulnerable to that. 437 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 7: Yeah. 438 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 3: Well when money d I saw and like the options 439 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 3: are stop organizing. As a feminist, like I cannot tell 440 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 3: you how many lesbian services turfs are married and pregnant. 441 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 5: Now, it's like. 442 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 3: They just dropped that shit like shame and dropped them 443 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 3: like Shama didn't do it of the kindness of her heart. 444 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 3: I think she realized that this was a vulnerability. She 445 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 3: needed to convince like the Jacobins of the world that 446 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: she was this socialist president like Amblo but even better 447 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 3: now in feminist form, and she really couldn't do that 448 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: if there was like these huge like people who didn't 449 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 3: even pay attention to Mexican politics but just jk rowling, 450 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 3: Like this was just a huge vulnerability. 451 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 5: She also didn't want this mostly to be a debate. 452 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 3: I heard rumors and I buy them completely, Like that 453 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 3: she pushed for no trans women being legislators in our congress. Ye, 454 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 3: because we had we had two before. One of them 455 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 3: stopped ass and the other one was kind of fine, 456 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 3: like just normal lefty centrist woman. 457 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 5: The other one was just horrible. So it's honestly, I'm 458 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 5: going with it. 459 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the situation we're about to have here, where 460 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: like we're gonna get our first trapser of a congress. 461 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: Bitch is absolutely dog shit like terrible Zietists. 462 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 5: Like, yeah, they were to work with they consistently. 463 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 3: I think they were just there to like waste her 464 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 3: fucking time that you would have a meeting with them. 465 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 3: It should so should we like pass this legislation saying 466 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 3: that you can have like no gender on your voter ready, and. 467 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 5: That took the whole six years Jesus Christ, and I 468 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 5: didn't even want. 469 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 3: It, like I haven't even changed my legal things, so 470 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: like it's not my priority. But it was a lot 471 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: of people's priorities, and they kind of wasted our whole 472 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 3: communities time. 473 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 5: But even that was not enough. 474 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: I think Shama just didn't want headlines, Like she was 475 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 3: content for other other people. 476 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 5: To handle the quote unquote debate. 477 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 3: She didn't want anything to do with it because she 478 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 3: it only cost her. Like the reason she defended some 479 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: terms is that some of them were like loyal to her, 480 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 3: and that's what she wanted. She wanted loyalty because she 481 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 3: needed party loyalty to like have a tight grip on 482 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 3: Monna because what she knew, she could win pretty easily. 483 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 3: She didn't need to appeal to the right or the 484 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 3: center right, and good for her, Like I'm an antil electoralist, 485 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 3: but like electoralists should not fucking listen to suburban moms, Like. 486 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 5: Who gives a shit. 487 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, going more to the left is, to a certain extent, 488 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 3: is better electorally, Like just look at the numbers between 489 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 3: Paris and buy them. And it's just vibes. It's not 490 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 3: even like real policy, but just the vibes. Like you 491 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 3: don't need you don't need to listen to pan voters 492 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 3: because they're Pan voters. 493 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 5: They're not gonna vote for Monna. 494 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 3: And like the right here in Mexico is really weird 495 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 3: because like they have this really like neo liberal view, 496 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 3: but their culture is so aristocratic. 497 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 5: It's kind of like what if thems were like very. 498 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 3: Stories, like because they hate hate for people, not like 499 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: Republicans hate for people, like because they also pretend to 500 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 3: be for people. Panistas don't. They lost half because Shane 501 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 3: Bawn really took hold of moderna structure and mobilized it 502 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 3: to vote in a way that was unprecedented, even more 503 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 3: than Anlo's vote. And because like Panisa just couldn't shut 504 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: up about how racist they are. They were just constantly 505 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 3: saying the most horrible shit about Morena voters. And there 506 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 3: were campaigns by pant saying go vote because they thought 507 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 3: that like Amlo is like a dictator, because they really 508 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 3: think that everyone is addicted. Everyone that's to the left 509 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 3: of Mussolini is a dictator and almost a dictator, So 510 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 3: go out and vote. They thought, like citizen participation is 511 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 3: gonna destroy the Anblo regime from We're gonna be back 512 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 3: to Mexico instead of being not and. 513 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 2: So. 514 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: But the thing is, when you send most of the 515 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 3: population to vote, they're not gonna vote for like the 516 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: most repugnant, classiest people ever. And the candidate they chose 517 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 3: was not a foreign candidate like such a Galvez was 518 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 3: an indigenous woman. Like they thought they were gonna outflank 519 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 3: shame and with that, but they didn't like she success 520 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: such a tool. 521 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 5: She's not far right. 522 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,719 Speaker 3: She used to be in Perde, which was also an 523 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: un lost party, but she was part of like when 524 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 3: when Pang got into power in two thousand, she was 525 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 3: the one in charge of the negotiation with the Elena 526 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 3: and she betrayed the Sapatistas. 527 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 5: Jesus Christ. 528 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 3: She was not gonna get any indigenous vote, like so 529 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 3: this is the first time the right does this, right, 530 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 3: like pun did the fucking classic damn thing of like 531 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: offering a wired down version of the the other candidate, 532 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: and they lost enormously and a lot of turfs. To 533 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 3: get back to the topic, a lot of ters bet 534 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: on both of them, they were really hedging. They wanted 535 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:50,239 Speaker 3: to be especially more institutional terms. They said, as long 536 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 3: as we get a women president, we're gonna be cool. 537 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. That like backfired on them. 538 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, Like Shamba, like I said, what she 539 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 3: cares about is loyalty. She didn't care about brad films 540 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 3: because she believed in them, just like she didn't care 541 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: about trans people because she believed in us. She wanted 542 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 3: loyal like loyal dogs. And if you are hedging your beds, 543 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 3: yeah you and she wins with sixty percent, you're not 544 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 3: gonna see a single cent from the arms. 545 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 7: Yeah. 546 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: She kind of Okay, this is like this is an 547 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 2: absolutely deranged comparison, but she kind of reminds me of 548 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: Jin Ping in the way that, like the way the 549 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 2: way that Chijinping does politics is by. 550 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 5: Every single more ina geopolitics, not just fainted. 551 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 8: When you say that, she's to say no, because like 552 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 8: Chijin Ping's like political style is sort of you know, 553 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 8: he's been he's been very very good at like like 554 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 8: centralizing the bureaucracy around him and sort of like neutralizing 555 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 8: social moves. 556 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 4: And this has been a classic. 557 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: Like a sort of long range like post culture revolution 558 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 2: like Chinese comedies party, think of like we need to 559 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: make sure there's not treat movements we need to sort 560 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: of neutralize. 561 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's also aims, you know. 562 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also like you know, Jiji Ping sort 563 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 2: of very much is also like a loyalty guy, right, 564 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: He's like, you know, he he will he will sort 565 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 2: of set up anti corruption things to like per people 566 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: who are like aren't loyal to him, because that's you know, 567 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: that's that's the way that this kind of like centralizing 568 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: politics works, and it's it's traspa is really interesting that 569 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: like we're seeing this with we're saying this with the TERFs. 570 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 2: Route was like, well, you guys, like I'm sorry, you 571 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: guys weren't fucking loyal enough. So like each ship you're 572 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: gonna get get ed coruption campaigned. 573 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 3: There's people that we proted that are super close to 574 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 3: Shamebelnd that we were really scared would get government positions 575 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 3: and were TERFs. They didn't get shipped. There's no like 576 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: trans legislature, but there's also no terf legislators. Yeah, there's 577 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: a world where that could have happened that we would 578 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 3: have been fucked. I think without our protests, like not 579 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: just the ones we organized from my collective, the d 580 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 3: Decids kind of know that we were focused on some 581 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 3: of the closest to Shamebeln but like every transperson knew that, 582 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: like this was something real lad and we kind of 583 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 3: put a stop to it. But and it'll been a 584 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 3: stalemate because again, what Shame did was defend her loyal 585 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 3: terms and she moved them to positions outside of the 586 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 3: spotlight honestly more suited to their to their Italians, Like 587 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 3: her terms were not really charismatic. She was trying to 588 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 3: set them up like as influencers and like they just had. 589 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 4: There's no juice at all. 590 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: That is a classics like just being the most juiceless 591 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: motherfuckers and the planet. 592 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 3: Absolutely and like really in concuring politics. Yeah, because like 593 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: they again they were they were kind of like they're 594 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: more like lefty in discourse. 595 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 5: They were very nationalists obviously, but also like they were. 596 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,479 Speaker 3: Hyping how feminist she was and like, oh, we're gonna 597 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 3: confront American imperialism and while at the same time like 598 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 3: being obsessed with like British TERFs. 599 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 5: So like it was really contradictory. 600 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 3: So Morena calls their movement, like the forty the fourth Transformation, 601 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 3: which is like just I won't even get into it. 602 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 3: It's just such a fucking bizarre thing. 603 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: Did have a transformation or something? Was he also doing 604 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: the fourth Transformation? 605 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 3: It's like no, no, it's like the Independence when we 606 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: kicked Francis ass and then revolution. Those are the three 607 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 3: and then and then the fourth is him right, like 608 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 3: he's saying like I'm I'm Benita quaas reborn and uh yeah. 609 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 5: Cringe, but like it's stuck. 610 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 3: Honestly, I use it because like it's such a good 611 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 3: shorthand because morena is so large, such such a big word, 612 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 3: and its salts. 613 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 5: Cringe because like. 614 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 3: Morena, which means morena means like brown skin. So and 615 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 3: also like bon morena, which is like Mexico's virgin mary, 616 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 3: so very queen. Even for quarter is even less cringe. 617 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 3: So yeah, sure, whatever, But like one of the most 618 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 3: famous Mexican Mexican feminists started calling them the quarter. 619 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 4: Oh my god, and that stocks. 620 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 5: It's really fucking look like it, so that stock. 621 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 3: But basically quarter is not out of power like the 622 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 3: most ambitious ones and the most purely turfs got quick 623 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 3: kicked out and the loyal dogs got sent to do 624 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 3: like other jobs. Like they're now talking to academics about 625 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 3: like green progressive socialism and shit, like they're just doing 626 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 3: talks in like with like eighty year old tenured professors 627 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 3: and like that is still riskin and there's we're still 628 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 3: watching them closely. But I think Simon told them, like 629 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 3: I'm gonna protect you, but you need to shut the 630 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 3: fuck up. 631 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 5: You better not. 632 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 3: Say the word rands for six years, go go knots afterwards. 633 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 3: But you're gonna have a job and you're gonna have 634 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 3: a possibility of returning and that I'm not gonna help you. 635 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 3: That's on you, and like, honestly, at least that's a 636 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 3: fair playing field. 637 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 5: I'll take it. I'll fucking take it. 638 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess like the state of things seems 639 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 2: to be that the deal is we're just gonna take 640 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 2: like trans people as a political issue off the table 641 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: for yeah, whatever many years. 642 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 3: Well, I think we're we're gonna she's gonna let like 643 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 3: states handle it, like if a trans law assess in 644 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 3: a state, she's gonna let it. And I don't think 645 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 3: anti translats are gonna have a. 646 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 5: Good time interesting trying to pass because the Right Age ship. 647 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, they really thought they were gonna at least have 648 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 3: a competitive edge, and no one voted. And again like 649 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 3: there's a lot of Turfs that were more aligned with 650 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 3: the far right, but they were not acting like it. 651 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 3: The rhetoric didn't look until a couple of months ago, 652 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 3: like the rhetoric that Britain or the US turfs have 653 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 3: both types of US turf that I think there's we 654 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 3: have every single type of irf here in Mexico. If 655 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 3: you can think of a type of nerf, we have it. 656 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 3: I think Britain is mostly wine moms and the US 657 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 3: is both angio freaks and like hippie where those like 658 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 3: ex anarchists, they bring resistance types right, like. 659 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, well I need to draw the light here, damnit. 660 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 4: But the decree resistance people were never anarchists. They were 661 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 4: always they were always weird primitivist. But like vang like 662 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 4: Vanguard is primitivists. 663 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I love that our recalled by Julie 664 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 3: who accompanied me in the least episode about someone fing 665 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 3: a hot dog and it fucking rules. But yeah, right, 666 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 3: like we had that, like we even have like a 667 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 3: deep rear system to Mexico thing going on for like 668 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 3: a couple of years. So Mexican terms here that align 669 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 3: themselves with the far right are gonna see both less 670 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 3: resources because the far right is healing some Bruce Eagles, 671 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 3: So the Writing Front gonna have to go full fascist, 672 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: which oh they. 673 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 4: Will, Yeah many such cases. 674 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, they can. 675 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 3: No longer get money from like your center right, like 676 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 3: respectable democracy people who are basically are just right. They 677 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 3: don't they They spend most of their time like just 678 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 3: complaining how like Maduro and Amlow and like treating like 679 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 3: everyone's the same thing because the only thing they want 680 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 3: is like just they want new liberalism, and I'm tired 681 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: of telling them we have new liberalism, ye, Like why 682 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 3: am I just new realism with a little bit of 683 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 3: just enough like welfare state to like keep everything from 684 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 3: blowing up. So yeah, this that's the case here. They 685 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 3: ate shit, They don't have money, so they either have 686 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 3: to find local fascists with which they have or they 687 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 3: have to appeal to Brits with things like the boxing scandal. 688 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that sort of brings us full circle to 689 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 2: like I guess literally the present day, as in like 690 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 2: the time this is being recorded, where their big attempts 691 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 2: to like generate a bunch of revenue for themselves and 692 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 2: like bring themselves back in the spotlight has kind of 693 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 2: blown up with their faces. 694 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 5: Yeah and listen. 695 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 3: One of the few good parts of like modernask co 696 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 3: option of feminism is that some previously, like I don't 697 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 3: want to say controversial, but like, there were really a 698 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 3: lot of campaigns to try to remove prestige from any 699 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 3: any prominent trans inclusive feminists in Mexico. Mexican academia and 700 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 3: Mexican like high feminism really started to go full Wratham 701 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen, and it started by trying to attack 702 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 3: any single prestigious feminist that was not a TERRF. Chief 703 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 3: amongst them is Marta Lamas, who I love her. She's 704 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 3: extremely live, but like, I still love her because she 705 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 3: she comes from a history of like not quite radical 706 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 3: but not quite radical Mexican academia that like says she 707 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 3: like reformist in method radical in objectives. 708 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 4: Sure, sure, but she at least. 709 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 3: Thinks it's true and lives by it. And she is 710 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 3: if you want to read stuff by her. She has 711 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 3: one of the best accounts of the history of sex 712 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 3: work in Mexico. Full water and Anache, a fantastic book, 713 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 3: fully recommended. 714 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the description. 715 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, so she got into like the mayor of Mexico 716 00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 3: City's team. She is now in Clara Brugala's team, and 717 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 3: Clara is like the front runner for the next presidential candidate. 718 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 3: She is not Chambain's friend. So my suspicion is that 719 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 3: Shaban is keeping her terfsunreserved to push. 720 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 5: Back against Clara. 721 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 4: Oh interesting to. 722 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 3: Find another female candidate and proper up as the feminist 723 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 3: successor to Claudia or a male candidate like she needs 724 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 3: like feminists on her side on reserve to combat like Clara. 725 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 3: Who Clara again, it's further to live than Chamblaine, and 726 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 3: she doesn't. 727 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 5: Come from an academic background. 728 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 3: She comes from a grassroots urban movement background in the 729 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 3: like thehood of Mexico City. In turn, Brugada needs more 730 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 3: institutional and like legit support. And Marta Lamas while she 731 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 3: was controversial because of TERFs smearing her, but she is 732 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 3: Marta fucking Lamas and she is white as hell. So 733 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 3: Clara got her in her team and now she gets 734 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 3: to be the chief leftist feminist in Mexico because like, 735 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 3: if Kadia starts sucking so much about feminism, well she's 736 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 3: a Google search away from. 737 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 5: Like turf scandals. 738 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and. 739 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 3: Nata really pushed back against turf influence in Mona, which 740 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 3: I'm really frank like, if you're gonna be co opted this, 741 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 3: that's the least amount of like allyship you need to do. 742 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 6: All right? 743 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, even push the turfs out from your like 744 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 2: fucking mansion. 745 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 5: We can push X to the to the left, Well, 746 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 5: then do it. 747 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 3: I people love saying they want to push politicians to 748 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 3: the left, and then don't push push politicians. 749 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 5: To the left. They just want to lose the critic power. 750 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, is there anything else that you want to 751 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 4: make sure we get you before we wrap up? 752 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 3: I think wrapping up to the Readogs magazine. Keep an 753 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 3: eye on like those kinds of places that are trying 754 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 3: to connect things, because we already saw that this can 755 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 3: spill over from Mexico or Brazil or Korea. 756 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 4: Yeah. 757 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 5: I think Korea is gonna be bad. 758 00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 759 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 2: So the thing about Korea I haven't done much about. 760 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 2: We probably will at some point cover this stuff in Korea. 761 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: Korea is having a really really sort of unbelievable sort 762 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 2: of anti feminist backlash. But this has also had the 763 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 2: impact of like really empowering the rat femmes. Yeah, and 764 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 2: it's it's a complete catastrophe. 765 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would really advise against idealizing feminist movements. 766 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 5: Ealesworth. Yeah, do your research. 767 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 3: Don't just accept on face value that like a face 768 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 3: you know from a third word country is gonna. 769 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 5: Be like the voice of the Global South. That's just 770 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 5: not fucking true. 771 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 3: Like, if you hear a face of the Global South, 772 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 3: it's probably because there's. 773 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 5: Money behind it. 774 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, unless you're really deep and know your shit, 775 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 3: the first thing that's gonna show up is gonna have 776 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 3: money behind it. 777 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 5: So be really careful. 778 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 3: With other feminist ones. I saw how people idealized Mexican 779 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 3: feminism not knowing just how deep both infiltrated by the 780 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 3: government and. 781 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 5: Paid by fire red groups, and that really backfire. 782 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 3: Like one of the only survivors of right leaning but 783 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 3: left presenting feminists that's called Brujas Mara. Yeah, they're probably 784 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 3: the only europe that's going to survive during the Shamebane presidence. 785 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, big turf group. 786 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, they never tried. 787 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 3: To get close to Shamba, but also they never dropped 788 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 3: the mask fully and they're one of the biggest pushers 789 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 3: of name imanything. Not the originators, those are the more 790 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 3: internationally connected, but they were the biggest pushers of it. 791 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 5: They have the most followers. They really prison narrative. 792 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 3: They were featured in Times one hundred, like AARUSIONDA was 793 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 3: Times one hundred from Mexico. So be really careful of 794 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 3: who you think are supporting. Yeah, because this is going 795 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 3: to be happening. I think it's it might be over 796 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 3: for now in Mexico and we I think we didn't win, 797 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 3: but maybe we can stop them from researching in five 798 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 3: years or so, and then I think that would really 799 00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 3: steal the deal. But this is going to be happening 800 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 3: everywhere where. You're gonna see it a lot in like 801 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 3: African feminist movements, in South Southeast Asian feminist movements. You're 802 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 3: gonna see it pop up all over the world. Take 803 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 3: a lesson from Mexico and look for trans folks over there, 804 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 3: ask them, hey, is this person cool? 805 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, just the minimum. 806 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 3: Do diligence before, like sharing gofundsman ship, like please, for 807 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 3: the love of. 808 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 5: God, we again. A toler goes a long way here. 809 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 3: So if if feel like you give something that would 810 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 3: barely cover rent for someone in the United States, that's 811 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 3: enough to set up an organization here, yeah, and really 812 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 3: fuck local politics for years to come. 813 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 5: So I don't know, Please be careful. 814 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:41,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 815 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 2: So if people want to find you and the stuff 816 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 2: that you do that is not ship, where can they 817 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 2: find you? 818 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 3: Well, I'm on x everything apps as a flores and 819 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 3: also i have a podcast called Fatista Knkrema. It's a 820 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 3: really good point in Spanish, trust me. And I'm also 821 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 3: trying to launch a project that's gonna be like a 822 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 3: sort of media watchdoggy thing. Again, we were working with 823 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 3: like sense here, so it's gonna. 824 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 5: Take a while. 825 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I keep an eye out if I don't know, 826 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 3: if you if you wanna learn more stuff about Mexican 827 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 3: like what's going on beyond, like either far right news 828 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 3: like that saw Shambane in a photograph with a trans 829 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 3: flag and friked out, or just like people who take 830 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 3: everything at face value and believe that Chamber One is 831 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,240 Speaker 3: the second coming of Marx. 832 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,720 Speaker 5: So I don't know. I'll try to keep folks posted 833 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 5: because it's. 834 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 3: Complicated, Like, yeah, it took us an hour to talk 835 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 3: about even just one topic. 836 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, things complicated? Who who? 837 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 2: Who could possibly have guessed that? You know, it's it's 838 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 2: difficult to understand, very complue to political configurations. 839 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 5: Yeah. 840 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 3: So yeah, for now I'm only on xicus and YouTube 841 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 3: again for Conkrema I do I stream on Twitch. Honestly, 842 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 3: this is gonna sound maybe you're gonna gonna call this, 843 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 3: but I really admire y'all. Like, honestly, I both that 844 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 3: and not a little bit of envy. I wish there's 845 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 3: not a really an ecosystem of like content creation or 846 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 3: news from a leftist perspective here. 847 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 5: Like most of the people again, a lot of them 848 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 5: also got co opted. 849 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 3: A lot of friends I had in like independent leftists 850 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 3: publishing and news in Mexico are now like full on 851 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,720 Speaker 3: like just modern spokespeople. Or they went insane and anti 852 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 3: vax and like now they're far right. Well yeah, many 853 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,399 Speaker 3: such cases. Yeah, so this is where they could app here. 854 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 2: You can find us in the places and until then, 855 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,400 Speaker 2: I defeat your local TERFs. 856 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, and don't become. 857 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 4: Jimidor back to. 858 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of coulsone Media 859 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: for more podcasts, Cool Zone media. Visit our website coolzonemedia 860 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,919 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 861 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can 862 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: find sources for It could happen here, Updated monthly at 863 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.