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Speaker 1: Text with Technology with tech Stuff from staff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I am your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer here at how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works and a lot of tech. So today we're gonna

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Speaker 1: focus on the Phantom, which was a proposed gaming console

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Speaker 1: that never made it much further than a prototype. So

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Speaker 1: this is kind of a part story about what you

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Speaker 1: could consider a tech failure. Some people go much further

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Speaker 1: than that. They call it the an example of an

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Speaker 1: entire scam or hoax, And I'll let you guys decide

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Speaker 1: for yourselves, but I'll say this, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: at least evidence that seems to support that not everything

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Speaker 1: was on the up and up. But draw your own conclusions. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: the prototype, when it did happen, it was kind of

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Speaker 1: cobbled together from standard computer parts. So what was the Phantom, Well,

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Speaker 1: it is meant to be a next generation gaming rig

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Speaker 1: that would bring PC gaming to the living room back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand three, two thousand four, and it proposed

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Speaker 1: something fairly revolutionary in the process. Now, today, if you

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Speaker 1: were to unveil a gaming device that required you to

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Speaker 1: download all the titles to a hard drive, you probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't raise that many eyebrows. It's not uncommon for a

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Speaker 1: gaming PC to lack an optical drive, after all, most

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Speaker 1: gaming rigs I've seen these days don't have an optical drive.

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Speaker 1: And digital delivery of games has been growing in popularity.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just take a look at steams numbers, They're incredible.

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Speaker 1: There's still a market for physical copies of a game, however,

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Speaker 1: particularly since you can potentially sell or trade in old

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Speaker 1: games if you use physical media. But overall, I'd say

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Speaker 1: the trend has been to move toward more of a

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Speaker 1: digital download experience. So if I said I was going

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Speaker 1: to launch a brand new console that could only stream

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Speaker 1: or download games, I probably wouldn't leave very many people

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Speaker 1: scratching their heads today. But the same was not true

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Speaker 1: back in January two thousand three. That's the year a

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Speaker 1: new company that was called Infinium Labs announced it was

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Speaker 1: bringing a gaming console called the Phantom to market. Now,

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Speaker 1: this was months before Steam would launch, let alone become

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Speaker 1: the dominant online market for computer games. In two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty much common practice to go to game

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Speaker 1: stores or big box outlets to purchase computer titles. So

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Speaker 1: when Infinium Labs brazenly announced the company intended to turn

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Speaker 1: the home gaming market on its head. They got a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention. Now, ultimately the story would be followed

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Speaker 1: by controversy, anger, and finally mockery. And it includes allegations

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Speaker 1: of fraud or at the very least ineptitude. It involves

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Speaker 1: the company that changed its name and switched tracks to

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Speaker 1: create a totally different product than the one that was

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Speaker 1: promising to consumers. So we're really going to dive into

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Speaker 1: the story of the Phantom and what actually happened. Now,

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Speaker 1: our story begins. You guys know me, I like to

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Speaker 1: always dive further back than when the actual stuff happens.

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Speaker 1: Our story really begins almost a decade before any mention

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Speaker 1: of the Phantom ever hits the public. In the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties in St. Louis, Missouri, They're a man named

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Speaker 1: Timothy Munroe Roberts was working at a computer store and

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Speaker 1: he had a customer named Andrew Gladney, and the two

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Speaker 1: of them began to talk about an idea for a business.

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Speaker 1: This was not the business that would become in Phinium Labs, however.

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Speaker 1: It was instead to create a data hosting service and

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Speaker 1: an early internet data hosting company. They called it the

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Speaker 1: Savaths Communications Corporation s A v v I. S now

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Speaker 1: Gladwell put up the majority of the starting capital. He

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Speaker 1: had a pretty healthy trust fund to draw from. It

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Speaker 1: was left to him by his grandfather, who has a

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Speaker 1: founder of a company that made a little soft drink

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Speaker 1: called seven Up. Together they got the business up and running,

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Speaker 1: and the company saw some early success with Robert's landing

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Speaker 1: a big deal with Apple Computer Incorporated. And landing Apple

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Speaker 1: meant Sabbaths had some serious market buzz behind it, and

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Speaker 1: they soon secured several other big contracts. Roberts, however, had

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Speaker 1: decided that he wanted to try and do something else,

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Speaker 1: so he left Sabbaths in n and went out to

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Speaker 1: start a new business. Now. This time, this was a

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Speaker 1: web hosting company called in tira I n t I

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Speaker 1: r A, also based out of St. Louis, Missouri. Some

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Speaker 1: of the concepts the company pushed were predictive of the

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Speaker 1: cloud computing craze that would follow a few years later,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps it was a touch too early for the company,

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Speaker 1: and coupled with the dot com bubble bursting in the

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Speaker 1: early two thousand's, it ended up not surviving, it filed

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Speaker 1: for bankruptcy protection in two thousand one. Oddly enough, Roberts

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Speaker 1: had already extricated himself from the company at that point,

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Speaker 1: selling off most of his stock, which in hindsight might

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Speaker 1: seem like it was a bit of a tip off.

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Speaker 1: Roberts had left in Tira around nt SO a couple

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Speaker 1: of years before the company went under, and he went

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Speaker 1: on to found another company, this time called Broadband Infrastructure

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Speaker 1: Group Corporation, also known as Big b a G. The

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Speaker 1: company's mission was to act as a sort of incubator

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Speaker 1: for tech companies and developed communications businesses, according to the St.

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Speaker 1: Louis Business Journals, So this is still happening in St. Louis,

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Speaker 1: Missouri now. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, Big

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Speaker 1: raised about eighteen million dollars from investors in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and it even sponsored a race car during the Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: five hundred that year. There are also stories of lavish parties,

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Speaker 1: expensive wines. In fact, part of the bankruptcy proceedings, because

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Speaker 1: spoiler alert, Big went out of business to part of

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Speaker 1: the bankruptcy proceeding has included the auction of twenty four

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Speaker 1: models of Chateau Lafitte Rothschild, which was a worth about

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Speaker 1: twenty four thousand dollars. Within nine months of raising those

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars, b I G closed. Now that led

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Speaker 1: to Roberts getting some heat in St. Louis See. I

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Speaker 1: changed it to Sant Louis for this part, and soon

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Speaker 1: he had folks at the state and federal and city

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Speaker 1: levels all asking some really tough questions about his entrepreneurial efforts,

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Speaker 1: and undaunted, he picked up stakes and he moved to Florida,

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Speaker 1: near Tampa. He started a new company called Infinium Labs,

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Speaker 1: and on January twenty, two thousand three, he started the

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Speaker 1: company two thousand two, by the way, but in two

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Speaker 1: thousand three, on January twenty, company issued a press release

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Speaker 1: about their plans. It's a short one, so I'm going

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Speaker 1: to actually read the press release. A Tampa Bay area

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Speaker 1: technology company in Phinium Labs Corporation, will develop and market

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Speaker 1: a new game console that will outperform the Xbox Sony

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Speaker 1: PlayStation two GameCube. The company plans to market a high

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Speaker 1: performance gaming console and delivery system to provide consumers with

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Speaker 1: options and capabilities that are not available in today's marketplace.

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Speaker 1: The console will appeal to the hardcore gamer and the

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Speaker 1: high end consumer electronic purchaser. The next generation game console

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Speaker 1: provides a robust, fault tolerant delivery system that supports games

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Speaker 1: on demand, game rentals, game demos, seamless upgrades, and patch management.

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Speaker 1: The game console is an always on broadband device. It

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Speaker 1: is easy enough for children to use independently, yet so

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Speaker 1: advanced it exceeds the needs of hardcore gamers. In Phinium

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Speaker 1: Labs was formed by veteran entrepreneurs who have a successful

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Speaker 1: track record in building large scale companies and advanced architectures

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Speaker 1: for supporting massive e commerce and enterprise applications. Combining skills

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Speaker 1: from telco data communications, digital rights management, software development, and security,

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Speaker 1: the management team brings together a unique array of skills

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Speaker 1: to develop the most robust next ration gaming console and

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Speaker 1: delivery network on the market. The Infinium Labs game console

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Speaker 1: features a high tech design and offers ease of use

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Speaker 1: for the variety of game players worldwide. The on demand

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Speaker 1: delivery system will appeal to hardcore gamers as well as

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Speaker 1: casual users. The unique design architecture allows for delivery of

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Speaker 1: a large number of games and the ability to participate

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Speaker 1: in online massive multiplayer gaming. Key features include fastest console

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Speaker 1: on the market, broadest selection of preloaded games, cross platform capabilities,

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Speaker 1: state of the art design and architecture, advanced accessories and

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Speaker 1: wireless capabilities, online connectivity for multiplayer gaming, seamless upgrades and

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Speaker 1: patch management. A multi tiered subscription service that meets the

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Speaker 1: needs of casual, moderate and hardcore game players, demo games

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Speaker 1: before purchasing or subscribing, games on demand, and game rentals.

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Speaker 1: The advanced system provides game developers and publishers a secure

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Speaker 1: and efficient software distribution system. In Phinium Labs intends for

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Speaker 1: game developers and publishers to reap greater profits using this

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Speaker 1: new game delivery system. And Phendium Labs has engineered its

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Speaker 1: prototypes and it expects to unveil the new gaming console

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Speaker 1: in March of two thousand three. The company intends to

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Speaker 1: launch the game console to the US consumer market by

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Speaker 1: November two thousand three. Remember that date. And Phenium Labs

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Speaker 1: has chosen Florida as its corporate headquarters. Florida has emerged

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Speaker 1: as a leader in support of technology companies with its

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Speaker 1: e Florida initiative. Offices will soon will open soon in

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Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and St. Louis, Missouri. About in Phenium Labs

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Speaker 1: and Phenium Labs Corporation was formed in October two thousand

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Speaker 1: two as a global entertainment gaming company and Phenium Labs

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Speaker 1: mission is to market a gaming console and delivery system

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Speaker 1: that will be the performance leader in the game playing

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Speaker 1: entertainment industry. The company will market a robust game console

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Speaker 1: that will appeal to a wide audience with its ease

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Speaker 1: of use, quality assurance, and robust delivery systems. Now, we

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Speaker 1: could probably say today that those promises we're a little

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Speaker 1: astounding for their time time and perhaps even a bit boastful.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about the fastest game console on

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Speaker 1: the market. Back in two thousand three, this was a

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Speaker 1: new company, untested in this space, setting out to challenge

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Speaker 1: entrenched companies like Sony and Nintendo. And then you had Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: which was relatively new to the video game console market

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Speaker 1: at this point but had already established itself as a

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Speaker 1: powerful presence in the industry. And the features the press

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Speaker 1: release listed were extremely innovative at the time. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: the gamers out there recognize that many of those features

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Speaker 1: are now standard on several consoles. For example, both on

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Speaker 1: the Xbox One and on the PS four you can

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Speaker 1: sample some games and even get some titles as part

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Speaker 1: of a monthly subscription service. So that kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: today isn't innovative, but at the time it was a

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Speaker 1: totally different way of doing business. So the promises being made,

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Speaker 1: while advanced, we're all features that would later on become

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Speaker 1: standard in video game consoles. It's just that in two

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Speaker 1: thousand three, this was a really wild idea, and it

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Speaker 1: raised questions was the world ready for an always on

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Speaker 1: internet connected console? Now? Judging by the resistance gamers put

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Speaker 1: up when Microsoft first said the Xbox One was going

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Speaker 1: to follow that same model and being always on broadcast service,

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Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say that if pack in

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Speaker 1: two thousand three, the world was not ready at that point,

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't ready when the Xbox One came out.

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Speaker 1: More importantly, was the technology ready or did the company

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Speaker 1: make promises that would have been impossible to deliver upon

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Speaker 1: even if it had been established as a big player

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Speaker 1: in the space up at that point. In other words,

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Speaker 1: if this had been Sony or Microsoft, would they have

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Speaker 1: been able to pull it off? Or was this just

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Speaker 1: a promise that no one at the time could deliver

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Speaker 1: upon we'll take a look at more details about the

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Speaker 1: unveiling of the Phantom and what happened in the wake

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Speaker 1: of that, but first let's take a quick break to

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Speaker 1: thank our sponsor. Now, before I get into all the

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Speaker 1: controversy that surrounds the Phantom, I thought it would be

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Speaker 1: a good idea to talk about what it was supposed

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Speaker 1: to have inside of it, what kind of connectors it

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Speaker 1: was supposed to have, you know, how it was going

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Speaker 1: to connect to your television, and talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about the subscription service and the online element to this,

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Speaker 1: to kind of get an idea of what exactly was

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Speaker 1: supposed to come out. Now, keep in mind that not

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Speaker 1: all of this ever materialized. Also, this is dependent upon

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Speaker 1: technology of the early two thousand's, even the TV technology

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Speaker 1: at the time. So there's some things that you would

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Speaker 1: have considered would have needed to be standard that we're

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Speaker 1: not included, like h d m I is not a

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Speaker 1: component on the Phantom spec list, and that's largely because

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand three not such a big thing.

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Speaker 1: But other things that you don't see as much anymore,

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Speaker 1: like composite or component video that definitely was part of it.

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Speaker 1: So for the standard components of the Phantom, because you

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Speaker 1: could also get optional components added on, or at least

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Speaker 1: in three you could. In reality you couldn't get anything.

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Speaker 1: The standard components were supposed to include a custom operating

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Speaker 1: system on a Windows XPE kernel, so that custom operating

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Speaker 1: system was to make it proprietary, kind of like the

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Speaker 1: operating systems you would encounter on other video game consoles,

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Speaker 1: and it would end up locking you into the Phantom's ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: It was supposed to have an a m d Athalon

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Speaker 1: XP plus central processing unit which would have approximately one

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Speaker 1: point eight giga hurts of CPU power, and it was

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Speaker 1: supposed to have an Nvidia g Force f x fred

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Speaker 1: Ultra graphics processing unit. Was also supposed to have an

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Speaker 1: Nvidia enforced to Ultra four hundred motherboard, two hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: six megabytes main memory, forty gigabyte hard drive. Don't be

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Speaker 1: digital five point one surround sound onboard, radio frequency wireless

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Speaker 1: modules that would allow you to connect things like UM

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Speaker 1: wireless mouse or wireless controllers or wireless keyboards to this

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Speaker 1: and S video r c A or component video connections

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Speaker 1: also composite, as it would turn out uh a Ethernet

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Speaker 1: port so that you could actually plug that into your

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Speaker 1: Internet connection. That was supposed to always be connected to

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Speaker 1: the Internet, so you need to have something a wireless controller,

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Speaker 1: a wireless keyboard and mouse, to USB ports, and four

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Speaker 1: controller ports. Then there were some optional components you could

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Speaker 1: add on to that, which would include extra controllers, either

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Speaker 1: wireless or accorded ones, a keyboard and mouse with charging,

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Speaker 1: base station storage expansion for additional game storage so you

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Speaker 1: could double the amount of storage space on there in theory,

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Speaker 1: a DSL modem, a cable modem, a wireless WiFi card,

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Speaker 1: memory upgrades, speaker set, and flat screen displays. So in

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Speaker 1: other words, you could go from something that you were

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Speaker 1: supposed to just hook up to your TV to something

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Speaker 1: that would have potentially multiple screens, although as far as

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Speaker 1: I can tell, they the graphics card wasn't necessarily set

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Speaker 1: up to support multiple displays, but that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: it couldn't happen. One thing the Phantom did not have

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Speaker 1: was any sort of portable storage drive, so there were

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Speaker 1: no CD drives, no DVD drives, no cartridges, no floppy disks,

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Speaker 1: nothing like that was ever supposed to go into the Phantom.

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Speaker 1: All material was meant to be downloaded or streamed directly

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Speaker 1: to the console. Now you may hear some of those

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Speaker 1: specs and say, well, that just sounds like it's a PC,

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Speaker 1: and really, when you get down to it, that's what

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Speaker 1: the phantom was. But then, to be fair, all video

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Speaker 1: game consoles ultimately end up becoming variations on the concept

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Speaker 1: of a personal computer. The big differences you've got some

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Speaker 1: changes in architecture. Something like the PlayStation four has an

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Speaker 1: architecture that's different than most PCs. Uh And with a console,

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Speaker 1: you typically are stuck with the hardware that the system

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Speaker 1: came with when it first launched or whenever you bought it.

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Speaker 1: So if I go out and buy an Xbox One today,

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Speaker 1: it's hard for me to upgrade that. I can probably

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Speaker 1: upgrade the storage by adding external storage, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to upgrade the processor or graphics

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Speaker 1: cards or anything like that. With a PC, you can

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Speaker 1: actually upgrade components, at least until you bump up against

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Speaker 1: limitations like you've got stuff that's going to be too

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Speaker 1: big for the size of case that you have, or

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Speaker 1: the motherboard will no longer support it, something along those lines,

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Speaker 1: And technically you could keep on swapping out components. You're

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Speaker 1: essentially building a new computer at that point rather than

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Speaker 1: just upgrading. But it is a possibility, but consoles are different.

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Speaker 1: You pretty much have to wait for the next generation

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Speaker 1: to buy up and and increase your console's capabilities. The

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Speaker 1: Phantom was meant to play PC games, so that was

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Speaker 1: one concern a lot of people had early on was

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Speaker 1: if this in fact was to be a standalone video

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Speaker 1: gaming console for the living room that would allow you

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Speaker 1: to play PC games in the living room, something that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have been trying to do, and

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Speaker 1: in fact today are still trying to do, like steam

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Speaker 1: boxes are essentially that same kind of approach. Uh. Even

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Speaker 1: though you know that was the mission statement, everyone was

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Speaker 1: pointing out, well, what happens when the games get too

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Speaker 1: advanced to run on the hardware of the Phantom. You

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Speaker 1: would have to upgrade somehow, and you could do some

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Speaker 1: upgrades through firmware, but that's not going to make the

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Speaker 1: process or work any faster necessarily, or make the graphics

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Speaker 1: card work harder. So that was a big concern was

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Speaker 1: that if in fact, this is essentially a customized personal

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Speaker 1: computer running some proprietary software on top of it then

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Speaker 1: what happens when the games get too advanced? Now, as

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Speaker 1: it turns out, there was never a need to answer

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Speaker 1: that question, but it was one of the early ones.

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Speaker 1: And as I mentioned earlier in this episode, the console

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Speaker 1: or hit the market, so some people would refer to

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Speaker 1: it as vapor ware, but all the components existed. The

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Speaker 1: stuff that they talked about really did exist. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all of those different elements you could go out there

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Speaker 1: and buy, so there was never a problem with that.

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Speaker 1: There's just there was no consumer product that featured all

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Speaker 1: of those in that configuration as a phantom console. There

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Speaker 1: are a couple of prototypes or show models that Infinium

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Speaker 1: Labs would trot out at various events like c E

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Speaker 1: S or E three, and there's some debate in online

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Speaker 1: circles as to whether those prototypes represented a real effort

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Speaker 1: to create a phantom console or if they were in

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Speaker 1: fact just a run of the mill PC inside a

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Speaker 1: customized case. In some cases, it wasn't even that. According

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Speaker 1: to one story I was reading, a games journalist went

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Speaker 1: to E three and saw a demonstration of the phantom

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Speaker 1: console and it sat down next to uh representative from

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Speaker 1: Infinium Labs who was going to give a demo of

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Speaker 1: the whole thing, and they had the console sitting in

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Speaker 1: front of them. They tried to launch a game and

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Speaker 1: it didn't work out properly, And as it turned out,

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Speaker 1: the representative actually revealed to the games journalist that the

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Speaker 1: game itself was being run on a PC behind the cabinet,

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Speaker 1: that the console that was on display was in fact

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Speaker 1: a dummy console. It didn't do anything. It just had

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Speaker 1: some lit up letters that spelled out Phantom, but there

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Speaker 1: was nothing going on inside of it. Now that's not

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Speaker 1: to say that every single instance was a fake console

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Speaker 1: with a real PC behind the curtain, Wizard of Oz style,

334
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Speaker 1: but at least according to that one report, that was

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Speaker 1: the case. Now, as it turns out, years after the

336
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,880
Speaker 1: Phantom controversy had kind of fizzled out, Ours Technica would

337
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Speaker 1: run a piece about a reader named Eddie Schlessinger who

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Speaker 1: worked at a computer repair shop in Venice, Florida. Now remember,

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Speaker 1: Infinium Labs was originally located off Florida and around to

340
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Speaker 1: the and twelve. A customer brought in this weird PC console.

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Speaker 1: It was branded a Phantom, So apparently this customer had

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Speaker 1: bought the set from someone else who had no idea

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Speaker 1: what the heck this thing was. For the princely sum

344
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Speaker 1: of two hundred dollars. Now, considering that it may be

345
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Speaker 1: one of a kind, or at least maybe one of

346
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Speaker 1: a dozen or so, that's not bad. Schlessenger had a

347
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Speaker 1: chance to crack it open and look under the hood

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Speaker 1: and see what was there. Now, Remember Schlessenger was telling

349
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Speaker 1: Ours Technica about this a few years later, I think

350
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 1: it was so about three years had passed so, according

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Speaker 1: to Schlessenger. Inside the prototype was a motherboard supposedly made

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Speaker 1: by a sus That's what Schlessenger thought, had the Nvidia

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Speaker 1: fx F a g P video card that had been announced.

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Speaker 1: It had some d DR ram um. Some of the

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Speaker 1: ports on the back we're working, and others were just

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Speaker 1: for show. It had video outputs for composite component and

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Speaker 1: S video connector, which again these days we would probably

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Speaker 1: just use hd M I instead. It also had audio

359
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: output jacks for optical co acts or our c A connectors,

360
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 1: and there were four USB ports. The system was not

361
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Speaker 1: in working order, so he ended up making some modifications

362
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Speaker 1: to it, and he even installed a phantom promo video.

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Speaker 1: He took a video that had been circulated on the

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Speaker 1: internet for a while, and he used that as sort

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Speaker 1: of the load up screen for the console, so that

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Speaker 1: the customer could say that he owned a working Phantom console. Now,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot of the stuff and Phinium

368
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Speaker 1: was claiming the Phantom would include found its way into

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Speaker 1: that prototype, which is something. At least not all those

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Speaker 1: ports were working. But then if the company wanted to

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Speaker 1: create a proof of concept to kind of show how

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Speaker 1: the system would work, it might only focus on the

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Speaker 1: necessary components to get it to perform as needed for

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Speaker 1: a demo. So, in other words, if you're shopping it

375
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Speaker 1: around trying to get some investors to give you money,

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Speaker 1: you might have a mock up where it's not a

377
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Speaker 1: fully functional unit, but you want to show off the

378
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Speaker 1: concept so that you can get the funding to complete it.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily mean that the company is shady or

380
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Speaker 1: suspicious in any way. Presumably the finished product would have

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Speaker 1: included all of the working components that were being talked

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Speaker 1: about in their press releases. Now that would also mean

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Speaker 1: customers would get a keyboard and mouse in what Infinium

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Speaker 1: Labs was calling a lap pad, And this was an

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Speaker 1: attempt to make it easier to play PC style games

386
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Speaker 1: on a home television in your living room. Many PC

387
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,239
Speaker 1: games are compatible with game controllers, but some games, like

388
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Speaker 1: first person shooters or real time strategy games tend to

389
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Speaker 1: work best using a mouse and keyboard approach. If you

390
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Speaker 1: use a controller and you go up against someone else

391
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Speaker 1: who's using mouse and keyboard, you will probably find your

392
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Speaker 1: petuity handed to you. So what about the online service

393
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Speaker 1: part of this whole package? Will Athenium Labs plan to

394
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Speaker 1: operate a Virtual Private Games Network or vpg in And

395
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Speaker 1: this is a special type of virtual private network or VPN.

396
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Speaker 1: And you may have used VPNs for work or for

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Speaker 1: your own computers. For those of you who are unfamiliar

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Speaker 1: with the idea, let me give you a real quick,

399
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Speaker 1: high level rundown. So a VPN creates a private network

400
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Speaker 1: across a public network. So take the Internet for example.

401
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Speaker 1: That's a public network anyone can hop on or off

402
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Speaker 1: at any time. Private networks require access to machines on

403
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Speaker 1: the network itself, so like a physical private network is

404
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Speaker 1: completely separate from any other network, or it only has

405
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: very controlled portals to other networks. And the only way

406
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Speaker 1: you can get on that physical network is if you

407
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Speaker 1: have access to a machine that's connected to it. Um

408
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Speaker 1: A VPN simulates that it's not a true private network,

409
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Speaker 1: but through code, creates a situation that is essentially like that,

410
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Speaker 1: and it can send that communication across a larger public network.

411
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Speaker 1: This means communication across the ep N is encrypted to

412
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: protect data from snoopers. Otherwise you might as well just

413
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: use a public network in the first place. It's typically

414
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Speaker 1: used by businesses to allow remote employees access to company

415
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: intranet systems. Other folks might use a VPN to communicate

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Speaker 1: securely with other people or to access services that might

417
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Speaker 1: otherwise be blocked in their real physical location. So you

418
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: might log into a VPN and use that in order

419
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Speaker 1: to access something that otherwise you would not be able

420
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Speaker 1: to touch from wherever you are. It's really handy if

421
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Speaker 1: you happen to be in a country that has a,

422
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: you know, a more nanny state kind of approach to

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Speaker 1: guiding how the Internet should be used by the population.

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Speaker 1: So why would Infinium Labs want to operate a vpg N. Well,

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Speaker 1: mostly it's to lock a customer into an ecosystem. And

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Speaker 1: here's how the business plan would have worked if it

427
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: had ever launched, you decide you're gonna go out and

428
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: buy a Phantom console. Actually, you can have a couple

429
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: of different options. You could purchase one for ad dollars

430
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: at least that was one of the amounts quoted, which

431
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: is actually incredibly cheap. Or you could rent it. Or

432
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: you could sign up for a two year subscription agreement

433
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: with Infinium Labs on their Virtual Private Games Network, and

434
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: if you subscribe for two years, you would get the

435
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: hardware for free. So the subscription would cost twenty nine

436
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: dollars a month, and for that you would be able

437
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: to use the Phantom Network to download games, uh to

438
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: stream games, to play games online with other people. You

439
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: would have access to a suite of games right away

440
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: that would be included with your subscription fee, so you

441
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to pay any extra for a certain library

442
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: of games. If you wanted games that were beyond that

443
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: library and Infinium Labs had secured the rights, you would

444
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: be able to download demo versions of those for free,

445
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: and if you wanted to purchase it, you could do

446
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: so through infinium labs as online store and down the

447
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: game directly to the console. The console would keep track

448
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: of how much storage space was left, and it could

449
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: even dynamically manage it. So if you start getting close

450
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: to your limit, Remember you've got that forty gigabyte limit.

451
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: Let's say you start getting close to that. These days,

452
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: it wouldn't take long at all because games are so huge.

453
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: But let's talk about two thousand two four, you start

454
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: getting close to that forty gigabyte limit, Well, the phantom

455
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: would end up deleting older games that you had not

456
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: played in a long time, but the service would keep

457
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: track of which games you had purchased, so if you

458
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 1: ever decided you wanted to go back and play an

459
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: old title, then you could download it again for free

460
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: because you had already purchased it previously, so there'd be

461
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: a record of the fact that you had bought it before,

462
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: and you wouldn't have to buy it a second time. Now,

463
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: in many ways, this is how subscription services like Xbox

464
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: Gold memberships work today. The business plan sounded actually pretty solid.

465
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: It was very innovative for its time. There'd be incentive

466
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: for gamers to subscribe month after month because they could

467
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: get access to the games within the library, as well

468
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: as a chance to buy other brand new games, possibly

469
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: at a discount because you're not buying them the physical media,

470
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: although now we know that doesn't always work out that way.

471
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: You don't always get a discount just because you're not buying,

472
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: you know, a disk. It can be just as expensive

473
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: or sometimes more expensive, to buy the digital version, which

474
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: is infuriating for a lot of people. There were also

475
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: hints that game titles could come out a little earlier,

476
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: so you could get them much quicker than you would

477
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: if you were to have to go to the store.

478
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: There was no danger of them selling out. You didn't

479
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: have to worry about pre registering for a game and

480
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: hoping that the the local game stop or whatever game

481
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: store you would go to would have enough copies on

482
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: launch day. You could just download it. So there were definitely,

483
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, reasons that a gamer might be interested in this,

484
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: Although the thought of having to pay an ongoing subscription

485
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: service to keep using a video game console that you

486
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: would already purchased rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

487
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: It was an idea that maybe wasn't quite ready yet.

488
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: So on the business side it sounded fantastic because you

489
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: would have a company that would have an incoming, steady

490
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: flow of revenue because it's not just selling a console

491
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: once to a customer. It's selling a console and then

492
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: offering a subscription service and then getting a monthly subscription

493
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 1: fee from that customer, and then you put that across

494
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: thousands of customers. That's an incredible revenue stream and it's

495
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: obviously one that works for a lot of game developers

496
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: today and game consoles today. But at the time, again

497
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: it was a pretty uh radical idea. Now, on top

498
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: of that, using a proprietary approach for games distribution solved

499
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: another problem the company would otherwise encounter. So this is

500
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: another reason for that virtual Private Games network. The Phantom was,

501
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: as I said, essentially a PC connected to a television,

502
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: So without any sort of proprietary overlay, nothing would necessarily

503
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: stop gamers from downloading games from other sources outside of

504
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: Infinium Labs. If you could just log into the Internet

505
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 1: and maybe go into a Torrent site, if you had

506
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: a bit Torrent installed on your Phantom, you could end

507
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: up pirate in games if you wanted to. But by

508
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: having that proprietary layer on top that was encoding games

509
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: in a way that only Infinium Labs machines would run,

510
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: then you didn't have to worry so much. You know,

511
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: people couldn't just take their their phantom and make it

512
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: do anything. They were limited in what they could do

513
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: with it. So it is a kind of a special

514
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: purpose PC, uh, or at least you could reduce the

515
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: number of people who are using it to pirate games.

516
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: I mean, someone is always going to find a way

517
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: to hack hardware and make it do something it wasn't

518
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: intended to do, especially if it started off as a PC.

519
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: That makes it easier and if you know what you're

520
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: doing now. All of the US was met with some skepticism,

521
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: though again I have to stress that we've seen these

522
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: sort of things pan out in the long run with

523
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: stuff like Steam and various video game console markets. But

524
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: at the time it seems so ambitious and so sudden

525
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: and out of the blue that a lot of people

526
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: were worried that this was too good to be true.

527
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: And you know how the rest of that saying goes well.

528
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: Athenium Labs had made some big promises, including a desire

529
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: to get a product on the market in time for

530
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: the two thousand three holiday season. That time came and went,

531
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: and the company had no consoles to show for it,

532
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: but they said, don't worry, it's gonna come out in

533
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: holiday season two thousand four. That time came and went

534
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: as well, and still no console. They did show it

535
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: off a couple of times at different at different trade events,

536
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: like I said, but at least in some cases it

537
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: turned out that it wasn't really a console that people

538
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: were seeing, just the concept of what the console would be,

539
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: even before in Phenium Labs had slipped that two thousand

540
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: four holiday dates. Some people were really suspicious of what

541
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: was going on behind the scenes, which include some folks

542
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: who wrote for hard O c P. That's an online

543
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: magazine that caters to PC owners. You can find tons

544
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: of articles and reviews about all sorts of things over there,

545
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: including a pretty tough investigation into Infinium Labs and Timothy

546
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: Roberts in particular. All Right, so it's September two thousand

547
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: three Wednesday, as it turns out, and an article goes

548
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: up on hard O c P News titled behind the

549
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: Infinium Phantom Console, and it takes a really hard look

550
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: at Timothy Roberts's past as well as the claims made

551
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: by Infinium Labs. The article argued that Roberts had a

552
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: history of starting companies that ultimately failed while raising millions

553
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: of dollars in investment money in the process. So the

554
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: article alleged that Infinium Labs, as of September two thousand three,

555
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: had raised at least twenty five million dollars in venture

556
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: capital and had nothing to show for it. Now, I

557
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: might be inferring too much here, but even the opening

558
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: of this article, to me, it sounds like they're at

559
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: least hinting that perhaps these business ventures weren't meant in sincerity.

560
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: In other words, there might not have ever been an

561
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: intent to actually have a working business there. Again, this

562
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: is my interpretation. The article does not say this outright. Instead,

563
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: it just seems like there's a hint that maybe there's

564
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: some sort of scam shady business stuff going on, And

565
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: it sounds a lot like the main plot behind the Producers. Like,

566
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: if you raise a lot of money for a business

567
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: and that business ultimately fails, you never have any profits.

568
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: You have to worry about paying out to shareholders. If

569
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: the business didn't profit, then you have nothing to pay

570
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: So what what? Who cares if you just happen to

571
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: have bought a few cases of incredibly expensive wine in

572
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: the process, but this may be putting words into hard

573
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: O CPS figurative mouth. At least in that first section,

574
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: there are no outright accusations that Roberts was running any

575
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: sort of scam. But the article continues with a breakdown

576
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: of what the phantom console is supposed to have, essentially

577
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: running that same press release I read earlier, but pointed

578
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: out that at least to that point, the only images

579
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: that had been seen outside the company were three D

580
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: renderings and not actual photographs of a working device. Later

581
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: we would get photos and videos of a device that

582
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: appeared to be working, but at this time there were

583
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: there were no such images available. Next, the article laid

584
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: out the places that Roberts had worked over the previous

585
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: eight years. He had held eight different CEO or director

586
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: level positions in those eight years, according to his own website.

587
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: They included two other companies, when Force LLC and med

588
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: Hire LLC, that were operating operating concurrently within Phinium Labs. So,

589
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: according to his website, he was a director on one

590
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: Force LLC and med Hier LLC while simultaneously serving as

591
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: the CEO of Infinium. Now, the writers at hard O

592
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: c P took time to contact med Hire LLLC to

593
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: check in on Roberts's history. The article states that a

594
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: woman who was identified as Laura Roberts picked up the

595
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: phone and indicated that Laura Roberts different person, uh, and

596
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: Timothy Roberts's mother was in fact the director of med

597
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: Higher lll C, and that Timothy, while being her son,

598
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: was not a director. Later this same Laura Roberts said, oh, no, no, no,

599
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: Timothy Roberts is a co director, but I don't have

600
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: any contact information for him. I don't have a phone

601
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: number or an email address or anything. And when they said,

602
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: isn't it strange that you work for a company but

603
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: you don't have any contact information for one of the

604
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: supposed directors of this company, and her response was he

605
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: changed his phones a lot, which also seems a little weird.

606
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: They also tried contacting when Juan Force LLC, and they

607
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: found out that Timothy's brother, Peter, was the executive vice

608
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: president of that company. So there's a lot of family

609
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: business going on here. The piece then talks about Roberts's

610
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: time at Big and Interira, which I've already covered here,

611
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna go back over it. But the

612
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: section framed Roberts as someone who had been involved in

613
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: several remarkable failures, including ones that earned a reputation for

614
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: lavish spending before the coffers ran dry. Next, the article

615
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: turned attention towards the headquarters for the company itself. It

616
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: showed that the register information listing had Infinium Labs is

617
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: address noted as fifty three eighty Gulf of Mexico Drive

618
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: and Longboat Key, Florida. The magazine hired a photographer to

619
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: go to the address to get pictures of the location,

620
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: and what they got back where photos of a small

621
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: strip mall that had one open office space that had

622
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: inside of it a single desk with a telephone on it.

623
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: There were other small businesses at that address, but they

624
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: were all identified that none of them were in Phinium Labs.

625
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: Six months later, the magazine had tried again, sending another

626
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: photographer out to that same location. Again there was no

627
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: evidence of an office operated by Infinium Labs there. They

628
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: decided to inquire at a nearby mailboxes, etcetera that was

629
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: part of this area, and they found that the mail

630
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: that was being sent to Infinium Labs was going to

631
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: a p O box at mailboxes, etcetera, and that the

632
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: company did not appear to operate any physical space at

633
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: that particular address. Curious or and curious er. Well, a

634
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: story gets even more weird, But before I jump into

635
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: any more of it, let's take another quick break to

636
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 1: thank our sponsor. Back to the story, So hard OCP

637
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: reaches out to Timothy Roberts to get his response, and

638
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: Robert said that things were just getting started over at

639
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: Infinium Labs, and he admitted that there was no physical

640
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: office yet, but that it was on its way and

641
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: they are just trying to, you know, get everything in order. Now.

642
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: You could be really generous and say, all right, I

643
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: believe you, but considering that the company was going to

644
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: have to go into production soon to get units out

645
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: by the holiday season, that was kind of tough, right,

646
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: hard o CP was really skeptical because that time was

647
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: coming up quickly and if they didn't have a physical space,

648
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: how are they going to actually build these consoles that

649
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: supposedly we're going to be on sale in time for

650
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: the holidays. They even followed up by sending a volunteer

651
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: to a different address in Thenium Labs Corporation announced it

652
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: was moving into a new headquarters building at eighteen nineteen

653
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: Main Street, Suite eight hundred in Sarasota, Florida, and the

654
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: volunteer said that when she went to the building, she

655
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: looked at the directory and saw no companies listed for

656
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: the eighth floor at all. There was an eighth floor,

657
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: so at least there's that, but there was no one

658
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: listed for it. So she took an elevator ride on

659
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: up to the eighth floor, and then she said, it

660
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: was a post town. There was there's no occupation on

661
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: that floor. Now, near the end of the article, you

662
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: get to a pretty tough paragraph. I'm going to quote it.

663
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: The facts speak for themselves. Company closures, bankruptcy, investors losing

664
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: millions of dollars, and current director positions where the company

665
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: isn't even sure he works for them and cannot find

666
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: his email address or telephone number. Mr Roberts has been

667
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: involved with one successful business venture in eight years, according

668
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 1: to his own resume. He followed that one up with

669
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: several bankrupt and failed businesses. It's been documented by other

670
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: sources that millions and millions of dollars were burned through

671
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: in the last six years. We think that it's possible

672
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: that the same fate could very possibly befall in Phinium Labs. Now.

673
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: The response from Infinium Labs was just as harsh. The

674
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: company complained and said that they were going to file

675
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: a lawsuit against hard O c P in Florida, saying

676
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: that they had made these UH these unsubstantiated claims and

677
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: accusations against the company and therefore had hurt the company's

678
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: UH chances of raising money and getting investment, and therefore,

679
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: if they failed, it would be because of criticism like

680
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: the kind from heart O CP. Heart O CP responded

681
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: by filing a lawsuit for a declatory judgment and saying

682
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: that they didn't do anything wrong from a judge. So

683
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: the judge decided that he would hear the case and

684
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: said that Anthidium Labs would need to present information about

685
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: the company's business in Texas because they reportedly had an

686
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: office located in Texas. They would also have to provide

687
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: information about their investors board minute meetings from around the

688
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: time that the article was published in order to indicate

689
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: whether the company was, as they had claimed, much further

690
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: along than the article had indicated, and also other information

691
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: such as Timothy Roberts's own personal income tax records, and

692
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: Phinium Labs failed to acquiesce to those demands, and ultimately

693
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: the company would settle out of court, reportedly paying hard

694
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: O c p. Fifty thousand dollars in the process. Now,

695
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: in two thousand four, despite having nothing to show for

696
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: itself other than this prototype that had been demonstrated, a

697
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: couple of trade show events and Phenium Labs went public.

698
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: They went from a privately held company to a publicly

699
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: traded company. Timothy Roberts owned a whole lot of shares

700
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: of stock, and by two thousand five things were looking

701
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: particularly shady over at in Phinium Labs. Remember they had

702
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: missed to ship dates already with the Phantom Console. Well,

703
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: Roberts decided to step down as CEO. He still had

704
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: millions of dollars worth of stocks at the time, and

705
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: he did something that got the attention of the US government.

706
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: He hired a stock promoter to send out a facts

707
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: blast to potential investors with claims that the company was

708
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: on the verge of releasing the Phantom Console and then

709
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: the value of the company was set to blast off

710
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: into the stratosphere. So at the time, this was a

711
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: penny stock, meaning super cheap stocks for infinium labs. But

712
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: with penny stocks, even the increase of just a couple

713
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: of cents can mean a huge profit if you own

714
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: a ton of stocks. So, as it turns out, it

715
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: looked like Timothy Roberts was trying to drive up the

716
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: stock price before he sold off his own stock. Roberts

717
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: was ready to unload it once that price goes up,

718
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: and that's called a pump and dump scheme. You do

719
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: something to artificially pump up the value of a stock

720
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: before you sell off your supply. When the dust settles

721
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: and people see that the hype was just hype, the

722
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: price comes back down, but by then you're already moving

723
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: on to your next gig. Right, Well, that's what the

724
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: SEC said Timothy Roberts had done. That he had effectively

725
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: run a pump and dump scam using infinium labs, and

726
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: the SEC is the Security Exchange Commission, that they were

727
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: not happy and they had some serious concerns. Now Roberts

728
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: would end up getting off relatively easy, all things considered.

729
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: He was ultimately hit with a thirty thousand dollar fine

730
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: after he reached a settlement with the SEC and as

731
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: part of that settlement, he also agreed to not be

732
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: an officer or director of a publicly traded company for

733
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: five years, and he was supposed to stop playing with

734
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: penny stocks too. Back to Infinium Labs, the company changed

735
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: its name to Phantom Entertainment, and by two thousand six

736
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 1: they had kind of quietly ended all promotion and discussion

737
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: of this console that never ever materialized. Instead, the company

738
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 1: decided it was going to pivot and release a gaming

739
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: mouse and keyboard, which sounded a lot like the lapboard

740
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: that was originally going to be part of the Phantom

741
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: console hardware. In September two thousand six, they said this

742
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: lap was going to start hitting store shelves in November

743
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: two thousand six. In reality, it would take two more

744
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: years before the lap board was actually available, towards the

745
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: second half of two thousand eight. In two thousand seven,

746
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: ARS Technica wrote another piece about the company, detailing its

747
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: many problems, including how the headquarters had bounced around from

748
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: Florida to Washington State to New York and was supposedly

749
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: going to move back into Florida. The article's author, Nate Anderson,

750
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: detailed the many problems the company had with various creditors

751
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 1: and its strategy of issuing more stock when it needed cash,

752
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: and it did this a lot with companies like Merrill

753
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: Lynch or the Motley Fool or Center Point Property, and

754
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: on three occasions by issuing stock to members of the

755
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: Basharra family that had leveled three different lawsuits against the company. Now,

756
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: this did not exactly paint the picture of a legitimate corporation.

757
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: According to Anderson, by two thousand seven, the company had

758
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 1: been operating at a net loss of more than seventy

759
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 1: three million dollars. Yikes. When the Lapboard finally did come out,

760
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: it ended up getting really lackluster reviews. A quick jump

761
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: over to the Phantom Entertainment website shows that, amazingly enough,

762
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: it still exists. I don't know if the company does,

763
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: but the website is still up. It hasn't been updated

764
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 1: since two thousand eleven, but it is still there. As

765
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: for Timothy Roberts, why has that scamp been up to

766
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: since his departure from Athinium Labs. Well, in two thousand

767
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: seven he founded a company called Game Streamer, or at

768
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: least that's when the company's press release says it was

769
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: founded was two thousand seven. The actual existence of the

770
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: company wasn't revealed until two thousand nine, so whether it

771
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: had existed for two years secretly or not, who's to say.

772
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: Now Roberts had listed himself as the CEO and CTO

773
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: and president and CEO B on the company profile. This

774
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: was a privately held company, however, so there was no

775
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: conflict with this agreement that he had made with the

776
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: c C a few years earlier, because that only applied

777
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: to publicly traded companies. It was also based in Tampa,

778
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: and it was supposed to be a leading innovator in

779
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: digital distribution and streaming solution for games. Now, Roberts wouldn't

780
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: stay there for very long. In two thousand and ten,

781
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: he and a guy named Terence F. Taylor, the CFO

782
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: of Game Streamer, resigned to start a new company together.

783
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: This was originally going to be a company called Platforms

784
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: with a Z at the end, and it was a

785
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: digital distribution company. But we can't leave game Streamer that quickly,

786
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: you see. The company would end up suing both Roberts

787
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: and Taylor. They claimed that both of them had tried

788
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: to secure trade secrets belonging to game Streamers for themselves Essentially,

789
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: the allegation was that Timothy Roberts had registered domain names

790
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: and trademarks under his own name rather than under the

791
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: Game Streamers company name, and that he then planned on

792
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: using those same ideas in a business this that would

793
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: compete directly with game Streamers. The company also accused Roberts

794
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: of threatening them, saying that he was going to reveal

795
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: confidential company information that would ultimately harm the business. Now,

796
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: Taylor and Roberts countersued Game Streamers. They alleged, among other things,

797
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: that they were both being fired for game Streamers because

798
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: they refused to convert to Seventh day adventist. I am

799
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: not making any of that up. Ultimately, those lawsuits would

800
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: all settle out of court in two thousand eleven. But

801
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: our story ain't over yet, folks. Roberts and Taylor would

802
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: launch another business in two thousand eleven, and it was

803
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: called Savtira. It was billed as a cloud computing company,

804
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: and its name was a combination of Savva's. Remember that

805
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: was the first company Roberts had worked with, and in Tira,

806
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: which was that big failed company he had worked with,

807
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: Which makes me wonder if Roberts was running out of

808
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: ideas at this point to combine two names of previous

809
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: businesses into a third one, and it's height. Savtira had

810
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: a valuation of five hundred million dollars. But he is

811
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: the problem. It was actually worthless. In fact, Sevtira had

812
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: to declare bankruptcy in two thousand twelve and it went

813
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: into Chapter eleven, but then was forced into Chapter seven,

814
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: which means it was liquidated. A judge ordered all assets

815
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: liquidated to pay off creditors. Robertson Taylor had been selling

816
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: stock certificates for a company that simply could not conduct

817
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: business as was claimed, and this wasn't just bad news

818
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: to wealthy investors who were out of a big wad

819
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: of cash. Savtira's employees suffered as well. There were real

820
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: people who had been working for a company under the

821
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: belief that it was a legitimate business, but their paychecks

822
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: stopped as the company ran out of cash, and toward

823
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: the end, the company's bank account was at negative five

824
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: thousand dollars before they were able to secure at two

825
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollar alone. Allegedly, a good amount of that

826
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: loan would end up going to some personal expenses that

827
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,959
Speaker 1: roberts had accumulated, rather than to actually pay off creditors

828
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: of the company. According to prosecutor, because yes, of course

829
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: this is going to end in another court case. It

830
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: was all based on false revenue projections. That's what the value,

831
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: the perceived value of this company was hinging upon. Robertson

832
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: Taylor would be arrested on charges that they committed wire fraud.

833
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: Roberts pled guilty or pleaded guilty, and his sentencing was

834
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: scheduled to happen in two thousand and seventeen, though as

835
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: of the recording of this podcast, that still hasn't happened.

836
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: It may happen sometime in mid March. Last I heard, Uh.

837
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: He faces up to twenty years in prison. His buddy

838
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: Terrence Taylor, also pleaded guilty to wire fraud charges, and

839
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: he was recently sentenced to five years in prison back

840
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: in December two thousand seventeen. Now, there's a lot more

841
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: I could say about roberts For example, he also led

842
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: a company called hashing Space, which is a bitcoin minor

843
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: hosting service. Terrence Taylor was the CFO over there too,

844
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: but after the Feds served a six count indictment against

845
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: the two guys, they both up down from that company.

846
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: Hashing Space continued on buying out Roberts's ownership of the company. Anyway,

847
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: that's the story of Timothy Roberts and the Phantom Console,

848
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: and I want a cookie. I do not know to

849
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: this day whether or not the Phantom Console was ever

850
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: sincerely going to be built, or if in fact it

851
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: was just a shell so that Timothy Roberts could raise

852
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: a lot of money from investors and then spend it

853
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: however he liked. I don't know the answer to that.

854
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: There are a lot of indications that showed that there

855
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: were at least some cursory attempts to create some hardware,

856
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: and I'm sure people who are working for the Phantom

857
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 1: are for Infinium Labs and then later Phantom Entertainment believed

858
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: in their heart of hearts that they were working on

859
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: a product that was going to go to market. But

860
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 1: whether it was a sincere attempt or just a hoax

861
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: from the beginning, the fact remains it never went anywhere,

862
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: and it became kind of the laughing stock. It was

863
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: one of those things that was held up as not

864
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: just something that to ridicule, but something to show as

865
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: an example of what can happen with Vaporwar, so an

866
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: incredible story, and uh, maybe we'll follow up on this

867
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: later on and talk more about some of the fallout

868
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: and also some of the things that have happened in

869
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: the wake of the Phantom console that brought some of

870
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: those ideas to life. Like I said, while those ideas

871
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: were way ahead of their time, they are ones that

872
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: have found their ways into various game platforms today, whether

873
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: it's PC based stuff like Steam or it's video game consoles.

874
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: We've seen those concepts worked into video gaming. So there

875
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: were some really good ideas there. If they had been

876
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: executed properly, maybe the landscape of gaming would be very

877
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 1: different today. Maybe in Phinium Labs would be the valve

878
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: of today where they'd be the dominant player in PC

879
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 1: gaming distribution. But as it stands, not so much. As

880
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: for Phantom Entertainment, I honestly don't know if they're still

881
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: an operation or not. The website still up though, so

882
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: you can go check that out. If you guys have

883
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 1: any suggestions for future topics I should tackle on this show,

884
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: let me know. You can send me an email the

885
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: addresses tech Stuff at how stuff works dot com, or

886
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: you can drop me a line on Facebook or Twitter.

887
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: The handle we use at both of those is tech

888
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: Stuff hs W. We have an Instagram account. Make sure

889
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: you follow us over there. And remember I live stream

890
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: recordings of tech stuff on Wednesdays and Fridays over at

891
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: twitch dot tv slash tech stuff, So just head over there.

892
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: You'll see the schedule printed there, and you can join

893
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: me and chat in the chat room, and I'll chat

894
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: back at you whenever I get a chance, which is

895
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: usually during the ad breaks and we have a good

896
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: old time. I'd love to see you there and I'll

897
00:51:54,160 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: talk to you guys again really soon. For moralness and

898
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics is at how stuff works dot com.

899
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: W