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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left six podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Matthew Ramsey of Old Dominion. Matthew,

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Speaker 1: Are you Matthew.

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Speaker 2: Or matt either one? It's fine. It depends on who

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Speaker 2: you are. Sometimes sometimes it's Matthew, sometimes it's matt. I

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Speaker 2: answered it both.

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Speaker 1: Well, you the kind of person like you grew up

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Speaker 1: is matt and now as you're an adult, you're Matthew.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a it's a funny story I grew up with.

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Speaker 2: I guess. My parents called me Matthew a lot. My

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Speaker 2: grandparents called me Matthew. My friends called me Matt. As

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Speaker 2: I was kind of beginning my musical career, I was

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Speaker 2: going by matt Uh. And then I got to a

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Speaker 2: certain point where I had like a you know, a

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Speaker 2: website and a MySpace page and all that stuff that's

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Speaker 2: Matt Ramsey. And I started getting these emails from other

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Speaker 2: people that were looking for a different Matthew Ramsey who

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Speaker 2: was the adult film industry or different Matt Ramsey. So

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Speaker 2: I changed it professionally to Matthew.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Old Dominion is going on the road. What should

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Speaker 1: the fans expect?

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Speaker 2: Oh man, they should expect to see us having the

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Speaker 2: time of our lives. And that's really the biggest comment

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Speaker 2: that we get is how much fun we have on stage,

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Speaker 2: and that is the truth. No matter what's going on

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Speaker 2: in our lives, when we step on that stage, it

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Speaker 2: wipes it all away and we just truly have a

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Speaker 2: great time. We've really learned over the past couple of

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Speaker 2: years really what our relationship is with our fans, and

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Speaker 2: we like to be inclusive. We take requests, we open

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Speaker 2: it up the set list to them, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we have a set list, but there are sections in

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Speaker 2: the set where we just say what do you want

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Speaker 2: to hear? So every show is different and we we

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Speaker 2: play for a good couple hours. So it's a fun time.

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Speaker 1: And how about production? How much production do you carrie?

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Speaker 2: Good bit of production. We actually start rehearsals tomorrow, so

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen I'll see it in its full glory tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: but lots of lots of screens, lots of video content.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have our lighting director. He's been with

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Speaker 2: us since the very beginning, and once we kind of

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Speaker 2: started getting into arenas and and really doing the kind

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Speaker 2: of big stuff, we had added some you know, show

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Speaker 2: designers and set designers before that we'd worked with, and

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Speaker 2: it was it felt like it was time to step

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Speaker 2: it up, and so we were doing lots of different

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Speaker 2: presentations that people were giving us, and our lighting director said,

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Speaker 2: I would like a shot. I think I know you

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Speaker 2: guys pretty well, so I'd like a shot to present

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Speaker 2: my ideas, and he hands down one won the design

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Speaker 2: for sure and ended up getting nominated for awards and

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Speaker 2: stuff for it. So it's a good bit. It's less

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Speaker 2: than we've carried in twenty twenty three because we're doing

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Speaker 2: an EMP theater tour, so it's a little bit different,

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Speaker 2: but it's still it's a big show.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're playing a Memorial Day weekend, you're playing after

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Speaker 1: a car race the six hundred. Have you done that before?

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Speaker 1: What's that like?

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Speaker 2: We have done that once, I think once or twice.

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Speaker 2: Those are always interesting shows. You know, people there for

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Speaker 2: the race and stick around for the show after. But

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Speaker 2: it's not anything we're not used to. We've played every

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Speaker 2: kind of show that you could possibly imagine, as I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you can imagine. So we've played, you know, next

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Speaker 2: to livestock, and we'll played next to race cars. So

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Speaker 2: it's pretty cool to be in the infield, and lots

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Speaker 2: of times we get to go down there and stand

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Speaker 2: on pitt Row and watch the cars come in and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and then we go do our show.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're playing in Europe. If you played in Europe.

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Speaker 2: Before, Yes, we have played in Europe a good bit.

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Speaker 2: We started that pretty early, trying to build a fan

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Speaker 2: base over there, and then COVID obviously kind of killed

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Speaker 2: our momentum there for a little bit. But so this

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Speaker 2: will kind of be our well. Really, our first toe

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Speaker 2: back in the water was playing C two C Festival

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Speaker 2: two years ago, and we'll be back there to do

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Speaker 2: a proper tour this year.

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Speaker 1: Well, a lot of country acts have never toured Europe,

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Speaker 1: not right now, and I want people are going. But historically,

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Speaker 1: so what's the reaction for your music overseas as opposed

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Speaker 1: to the US.

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Speaker 2: It was surprising to us. I kind I can understand

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Speaker 2: why some artists don't go over there, especially once you've

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Speaker 2: reached a certain level in the States, you kind of

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Speaker 2: have to start over over there. You know, you're building

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Speaker 2: a whole new fan base they don't have where they

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Speaker 2: typically didn't have country radio over there. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: just a catch all radio that plays your music. Now

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Speaker 2: they're starting to get some country stations, so it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit easier, but we were very surprised. There's there's

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Speaker 2: nothing quite like hearing your music sung back to you

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Speaker 2: in a German accent, you know that to show you

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Speaker 2: how far your music has gone. Uh. And and they

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Speaker 2: also they really dig into the entire catalog, so we

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Speaker 2: can play whatever we want. They know every word and

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Speaker 2: you know, it's pretty fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you ever get tired of playing break up

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Speaker 1: with Him?

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Speaker 2: No? Actually, hear artists talk about that sometimes. For me,

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Speaker 2: if it gets the crowd excited, I have no problem

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Speaker 2: playing it. You know, it used to we spent a

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Speaker 2: long time playing full sets of music that no one knew.

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Speaker 2: So when you get a hit, it's a blessing and

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Speaker 2: it starts to you know. That was the one for

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Speaker 2: a long time where we knew, no matter what we

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Speaker 2: were playing, we knew that was a moment we were

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Speaker 2: going to get them and we would get their attention.

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Speaker 2: And so still now to this day, that song creates

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Speaker 2: a reaction. And anytime anytime a group, you know, thousands

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Speaker 2: of people are singing something that you created. How can

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Speaker 2: you get tired of that.

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Speaker 1: So how do you decide where to put it in

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Speaker 1: the set list?

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Speaker 2: It's usually these days pretty high up. We like to

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Speaker 2: start the song or we like to start out the

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Speaker 2: set with some hits. We're lucky enough now that we

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Speaker 2: can build a set that there's hits all the way through,

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Speaker 2: so so we typically try to put that one up

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Speaker 2: towards the top, just to kind of, you know, for

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Speaker 2: around people who we are and get them excited about

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Speaker 2: the hit songs that they're coming here later.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is audio only, but you wearing a Bruce

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Speaker 1: Springsteen in the East Street Band shirt. You are seen

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Speaker 1: as a country artist. So where are you on the

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Speaker 1: spectrum in terms of rock and country?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Birce Springsteen is is my biggest influence personally as

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Speaker 2: far as you know. Obviously is a songwriting influence, but

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Speaker 2: as a performer too. I really look up to his

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Speaker 2: body of work. I don't think we would ever call

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Speaker 2: ourselves a traditional country band. I think the thing that

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Speaker 2: makes us country is our songwriting. You know, we certainly

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Speaker 2: try to focus on the storytelling aspect and and pack

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Speaker 2: it full of hooks and you know, get people singing along,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I grew up in a really small

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Speaker 2: town in Virginia, so you know, I certainly have a

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Speaker 2: country background, but musically, the five of us are. Our

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Speaker 2: influences are so all over the map, and they include

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Speaker 2: just as much rock as they do country. So our

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Speaker 2: show tends to be more of a rock show than

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Speaker 2: a country show. Lots of jumping around and running around.

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Speaker 1: So how'd you get turned on to Bruce?

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Speaker 2: My dad had a record collection and he had the

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Speaker 2: Live from seventy five to eighty five album and he

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Speaker 2: used to play that and I remember always loving it.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't until I was probably, I want to say, eighteen,

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Speaker 2: that I heard Rosalita and it sounded so fresh to me,

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Speaker 2: and just his cadence and just the pictures that he painted.

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Speaker 2: I was driving, I was driving from Brisbane, Virginia to Charlottesville,

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Speaker 2: and I heard that song come on and it was

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Speaker 2: just it just lit me up. I just couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: And I went home and pulled out that record that

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Speaker 2: my dad had, and it was covered in mold, and

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Speaker 2: you know, it hadn't been pulled out for years, and

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Speaker 2: I tried to clean it off, and I was just

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Speaker 2: sitting in my room and listened to that those concerts

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Speaker 2: over and over and over again, and then and then

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Speaker 2: I was just obsessed from that point on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you see, you come from a small town Virginia.

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Speaker 1: What is that town and where is that in Virginia.

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Speaker 2: It's called Buckannan, Virginia. It's spelled Bucannon, but everybody there

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Speaker 2: calls it Buckchannan. It's in the southwestern part of the

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Speaker 2: Appalachian Mountains. So it's about i'd say about half an

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Speaker 2: hour forty minutes from Roanoke, Virginia, in between Roanoak and

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Speaker 2: and Charlottesville, Virginia, about nine hundred people. Uh, just no

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Speaker 2: stop light, just a tiny little town.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Charlottesville is a college town. Roanoak's like the first

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Speaker 1: town in America. So you know, I talked to dway

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Speaker 1: Yoakum about this. So you say it's Appalachia. He goes

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Speaker 1: on that no one pronounces it that way, but you're

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Speaker 1: from there, and he's actually from Ohio. So to what

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Speaker 1: degree is it backwoods holler or at this point is

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Speaker 1: that paradigm done?

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Speaker 2: No, you can find that very easily. It's definitely still there.

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Speaker 2: You know, My hometown was, like I said, it's very small.

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Speaker 2: It was a big deal when they put a burger

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Speaker 2: king in the gas station, you know. But there are

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Speaker 2: there are hollers, for sure. There's one in particularly called

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Speaker 2: Wildcat Holler that is that is very close by, and

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Speaker 2: it's it's a pretty poverty stricken part of the country. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: the the opioid crisis is running rampant through there, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of it, you know, came out of that

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Speaker 2: came out of that area. You can watch all the

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Speaker 2: documentaries on on all of that. And there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of Rono Virginia in that area. So it's pretty downtrodden

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Speaker 2: at times, but it is a beautiful part of the country.

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Speaker 1: So what did your parents do for a living.

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Speaker 2: My dad worked for the railroad for about eighteen years

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid, so he was traveling a

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Speaker 2: good bit until he ended up taking a buy out

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Speaker 2: and got a job working in the local in the

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Speaker 2: office of the there's a local factory in town that

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Speaker 2: made like silicone and rubber products. And then my mom

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Speaker 2: was a teacher. My mom was a math teacher.

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Speaker 1: What did your father do for the railroad?

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Speaker 2: He was a brakeman, so he was he was on

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Speaker 2: the trains, so he would His run was from Roanoak

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Speaker 2: to Winston Salem, North Carolina, so he would just take

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Speaker 2: trains down to North Carolina, unload them, hook him back up,

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Speaker 2: bring them back. That was kind of the family business.

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Speaker 2: Was his dad did it, his granddad did it. It

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Speaker 2: was like all the men leading up to my dad

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Speaker 2: were all railroad people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the factory, the silicon factory. Is that still there

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Speaker 1: or did that close?

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Speaker 2: It's closed? Now? It's closed?

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Speaker 1: Now? How long would it close?

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Speaker 2: It sold a few times probably I'd say ten years

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Speaker 2: ago and then ended up shutting down probably I'd say

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Speaker 2: probably six years ago.

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Speaker 1: So was your father or retired or did he lose

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Speaker 1: his job?

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Speaker 2: No, he was, he was at that point. They kind

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Speaker 2: of they kept on selling it and and they would

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Speaker 2: keep him. So he survived a couple of different sales

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Speaker 2: and then and transitions, and then they kept him on

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Speaker 2: until he finally retired.

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Speaker 1: And then when the factory finally went under. How did

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Speaker 1: that affect the economics of the town.

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Speaker 2: The town didn't have a whole lot of economics. It

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Speaker 2: definitely killed some jobs, for sure. It's now been turned

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Speaker 2: into a brewery and an apartment complex, which I haven't seen,

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Speaker 2: but I hear is doing well. The thing about that

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Speaker 2: little town that's drawing people there now is the river

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Speaker 2: runs right through it, and obviously the Appalachian Trail runs

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Speaker 2: pretty close by to so it's a big outdoors destination

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Speaker 2: now that people like to come in and in the

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Speaker 2: summertime and float the river, and that now they go

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Speaker 2: grab a beer at the brewery.

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Speaker 1: So your father's a break man. How does he meet

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Speaker 1: your mother?

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Speaker 2: They met in college. They went to Shepherd University, and

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Speaker 2: I think the story is he was showing up to

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Speaker 2: date to take my mom's roommate on a day and

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Speaker 2: uh and something fell through and he ended up taking

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Speaker 2: my mom on the date. Uh and that they've been

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Speaker 2: together ever since.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So how many kids in the family.

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Speaker 2: I have one older brother, and what is he up to?

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Speaker 2: He is a rock star in his own right. He

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Speaker 2: he works with It's stuff that's way over my head,

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Speaker 2: but he works with GPS systems and drones.

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Speaker 1: So you've had some great success in the music business.

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Speaker 1: You know, people have success and they buy their parents

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Speaker 1: cars or houses. Did you do any of that? I have.

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Speaker 2: I've certainly handed down some cars to my parents. I've

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Speaker 2: I've definitely Uh, given my dad a truck, and I

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Speaker 2: I definitely try to take care of them. I haven't

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Speaker 2: bought them any houses or anything, but I certainly try

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Speaker 2: to spread the spread the wealth a little bit. For Christmas,

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Speaker 2: I bought them. My definition of success was always I

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Speaker 2: remember telling someone I just wanted to be successful enough

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Speaker 2: to see my family whenever I wanted, without having to

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Speaker 2: save up or worry about how much the plane ticket

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Speaker 2: costs or whatever. So now that I've reached this level,

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Speaker 2: I definitely I gave a credit card for Christmas and said,

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Speaker 2: whenever you want to come, this is your plane ticket.

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Speaker 2: You know, don't don't worry about how much it costs,

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Speaker 2: just get here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you're going to school. Did you go to

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Speaker 1: the same school your mother was a teacher at.

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Speaker 2: She wound up teaching there right after I left. When

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Speaker 2: I was in I guess elementary school. There was a

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Speaker 2: couple of classes that she was that when I was

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Speaker 2: in elementary school. She was going to school to get

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Speaker 2: her degree, so she would come in and do like

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Speaker 2: teacher's aide stuff sometimes when I was small. But then

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Speaker 2: she wound up getting a job in natural Bridge, Virginia,

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Speaker 2: which is about probably fifteen minutes away, so she taught there.

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Speaker 2: She didn't move to the high school until after I

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Speaker 2: was going.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of student were you?

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Speaker 2: Not a great one? My brother was a really good one, obviously,

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Speaker 2: he's an engineer and does all the high tech stuff.

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Speaker 2: I was that was not into school, man, it was

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Speaker 2: not my thing. I really didn't.

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Speaker 1: But you went to college, it couldn't have been too bad.

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Speaker 2: I went to college, but I wasn't even sure. I

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Speaker 2: just kind of had reached a point. College was an

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Speaker 2: avenue out of that town for me. I just I stayed.

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Speaker 2: After I graduated high school, I went community college for

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Speaker 2: a year because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: So I went to community college and realized pretty quickly

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to be there anymore. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: do something else, and the only thing I was good

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Speaker 2: at was art and music to some degree. But I

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Speaker 2: was better at art, so I thought, well, maybe I'll

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Speaker 2: try to go to art school, and that's when I

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Speaker 2: ended up doing a degree in illustration from BCU.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is there music in the house growing up?

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Speaker 2: There was a lot. My dad is a huge fan

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Speaker 2: of music and has a lot of a varied taste,

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Speaker 2: but he's not a musician. He would have a harmonica

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Speaker 2: sometimes and would play that for fun, but other than that,

295
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Speaker 2: we had a piano that was just sitting there. And

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Speaker 2: I was drawn to the drums first. So I think

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Speaker 2: when I was probably in fifth grade, I really wanted

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Speaker 2: to play drums. And so they told me, Okay, if

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Speaker 2: you want to play drums, we want you to take

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Speaker 2: piano lessons. Okay, that was the deal that they made.

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Speaker 2: They wanted me to learn to to to read music.

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm not sure why, but I just said

303
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Speaker 2: okay and that stuff for maybe three lessons until I

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Speaker 2: dropped that and kept on the drums.

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Speaker 1: What was the motivation to play the drums? Did you

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Speaker 1: see something on TV? Or we always rhythmic kid?

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Speaker 2: I mean I saw I saw at a at a

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Speaker 2: middle school talent show, one of my brother's friends played. Uh.

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Speaker 2: I think he played like wipeout or something. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's the thing you played, of course trying to learn

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Speaker 2: the drum. Yeah, yeah, so but I just saw the

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Speaker 2: whole gym light up when he did that, and I

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Speaker 2: was and it was so powerful to me. I was like, WHOA,

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Speaker 2: what's happening here? So and my brother I remember right

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Speaker 2: around that time. You know, he's four years older than me. Uh,

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Speaker 2: and he was in middle school and and he decided

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Speaker 2: he and his buddies wanted to start a band, and

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Speaker 2: so they were and it but my brother played trumpet

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Speaker 2: and like, so it was like a horn section and

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Speaker 2: this drummer and uh. They came over to the house

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Speaker 2: and that lasted probably a monk, but they came over

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Speaker 2: once to practice. And now all the drums were set

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Speaker 2: up in our basement and they took a break and

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Speaker 2: I just went down there and was like touching the

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Speaker 2: drums and I was just really drawn to them. And

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Speaker 2: then I was in led me to be in you know,

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Speaker 2: uh the school band playing and playing drums, and then

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Speaker 2: later into the marching band. I was in the drum

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Speaker 2: line and did all that stuff. So first, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: that was really calling to me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, did you take lessons?

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Speaker 2: No, we had a you know, a band director that

333
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Speaker 2: didn't really know anything about the drums.

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Speaker 1: I just.

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Speaker 2: I just, uh, everything everything I did was self taught.

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Speaker 2: I had the I pretty much lived in our basement,

337
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 2: so I would stay down there in our basement. I

338
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: had a drum kit down there. I had guitars and

339
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Speaker 2: ants and stuff down there on one half of the basement,

340
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Speaker 2: and the other half of the basement was all canvases

341
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Speaker 2: and paints and and art supplies. So I would I

342
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: would always be down there, either painting or listening to

343
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Speaker 2: music and trying to figure out what they did and

344
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Speaker 2: try to play it.

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Speaker 1: So you played the piano to get drums. Did your

346
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Speaker 1: appearance buy you a kid?

347
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 2: Eventually? Yes, I started with a snare and there was

348
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 2: a big moment. I remember, my dad was never a

349
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: big He's not known necessarily for being a spontaneous person.

350
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Speaker 2: But it was just he and I out One day

351
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Speaker 2: we were going to get some lunch and we walked

352
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Speaker 2: by this uh it was just I don't like a

353
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 2: junk store, and there was a drum kit sitting in

354
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Speaker 2: them in the window. And we walked by and I

355
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 2: was like, oh wow, look at that thing. And he said, well,

356
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: let's go look at it, and we walked out of

357
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Speaker 2: there with it. I was my mind was blown, like

358
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: I could not believe that he was He just bought

359
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 2: me this drum kit. And they weren't musical, but they

360
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 2: they supported me in every musical avenue I went down,

361
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: they they didn't always understand it. Uh. And throughout the

362
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: course of of my adolescence, when I would get things

363
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: taken away from me for acting like an idiot, they

364
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: never took away that. They never took away anything musical

365
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: from me, So I would sometimes that was all I

366
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Speaker 2: had to do.

367
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Speaker 1: Okay, drums can make quite a racket. Yeah, you were

368
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: in the basement, but they ever say stop.

369
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there was a light switch. There was a

370
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Speaker 2: light switch. The light switch for the basement was upstairs,

371
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 2: so I'd be I'd be down there playing and all

372
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Speaker 2: of a sudden it would just go completely dark, and

373
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Speaker 2: I'd be like, Okay, time to quit.

374
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Speaker 1: Okay, you're playing in the school band in a drum line.

375
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: You know? Is that cool?

376
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: Not cool?

377
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: What was the experience like?

378
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: That was cool for me? You know, I don't think.

379
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: I don't think people think marching band is the coolest

380
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: thing in the world, But for me, I loved I

381
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 2: loved every second of it, especially too, because it was

382
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: kind of cool that we had a band director that

383
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: wasn't didn't know much about drums. He just sort of

384
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 2: let us come up with our own parts. So we

385
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: would listen to to the pieces and we would we

386
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: would circle up and come up with our own parts,

387
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: and he would he would help guide a little bit,

388
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: but he didn't know the rudiments much and so it

389
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: was there was complete creative freedom there. So I really

390
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: really loved it.

391
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: And tell us about the drum line.

392
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: Well, pretty rinky dink. So you know, just a couple

393
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: of snare drums that was a guy playing the quads

394
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: and a couple of bass drums, and that was about it.

395
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: And ultimately that's how I ended up starting my first

396
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: band because we were such good friends and we all

397
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: wanted to be in a band, but we all played drums.

398
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: So one of the guys was like, well, I have

399
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: a guitar, and another guy was he could play piano

400
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: pretty well, and I said, well, okay, I'll borrow a

401
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: bass from somebody and I'll try to be the bass player.

402
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: And so we would get together at my friend's house

403
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: and we had this rotating everybody wanted to play the

404
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: drums because that was the one thing that we did,

405
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: so so like, I want to play drums on that song.

406
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: So it was constantly turning where we would play drums

407
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: on particular songs. But that was my first kind of step.

408
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: The drum line led directly to me being in my

409
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 2: first band.

410
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: So you borrow a bass. Some people can pick up

411
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: any instrument and play it instantly. Other people have to

412
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: work really hard. Where do you fit on the continuum?

413
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: I have to work really hard. I still work really hard.

414
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: I have a good year, you know, thankfully, so I

415
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: could figure it out. But it was just that's all

416
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: I did once once I was in that far into

417
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: music in general. I had I had an uncle too

418
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 2: that gave me a guitar, and I had that piano

419
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: sitting there in the living room, and I borrowed this bass,

420
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: and I had a drum kit. And so just every

421
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: day I was working on something, trying to figure out

422
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: how people, how people were playing, what they were playing,

423
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: and reading books and magazines and trying to figure it

424
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: all out.

425
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: Okay, so how long does that band of drummers last?

426
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: Oh, probably a couple of years.

427
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: You know.

428
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: That was we played like the Valentine's Dance at at

429
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: our school, and we played a little you know, local

430
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: pool party type of thing. You know. We were terrible,

431
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: But it lasted a couple of years and then transformed

432
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: into some of the members we formed another band that

433
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: was called Porkrons, and that was like a that was

434
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: like a we wanted to be Pearl Jam. Yeah, we

435
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: wanted to be a grunge rock band. So that kind

436
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: of transformed into that and that lasted for probably another

437
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: four years.

438
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in your hometown. It's not that far from Charlotteesville.

439
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: Do you go to shows in Charlottesville? Do you hang out?

440
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: Were you pretty much at home?

441
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: Mostly went to Roanoke for shows, so there would bands.

442
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: Charlottesville was a little further away, and for whatever reason,

443
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: we never went that direction. Nless it was for sports.

444
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: We would go see some UVA basketball or soccer games,

445
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 2: football games. But Roanoak there was some decent sized touring

446
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: acts that would come through Rono So I spent most

447
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: of my time going to shows there. And there were

448
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: you know, there was a there was a club scene there.

449
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 2: Two there was there was one, well really one club

450
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: in Roanoak where my band would play with big x's

451
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: on our hands. And because we were underage.

452
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you graduate from high school, you still live at

453
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: home and go to community college. Does the band sustain No?

454
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: That was that was pretty much the end of the band.

455
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: I was at that point, I wasn't the singer in

456
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: that band, but at that point had started writing a

457
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: different kind of style of song.

458
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: We'll time out. When did you start.

459
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: To right around the time I picked up the guitar, Well,

460
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: I was probably fourteen thirteen fourteen. I was playing the

461
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 2: piano one day just by ear, just noodling, and my

462
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: dad reminded me. He was like, you have a guitar

463
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: that's in your closet sitting up there. You should pick

464
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: that up. See what you can do. I was like,

465
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: he's right, you know, So I picked it up, and

466
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to play anything. So my instinct was, well,

467
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: I'll write something. I don't know how to play anything else.

468
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: But if I write something, then i'll I'll have something

469
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: to play. So that was my first instinct was to

470
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: create rather than to copy. So right off the bat

471
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: I started writing.

472
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: And certainly in retrospect you could evaluate this stuff. How

473
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: much did you write? And when was the first time

474
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: you simply in retrospect, well, that was kind of a

475
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: good song.

476
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: I think I thought they were pretty good right off

477
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: the bat, you know, I thought, I like, the first

478
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: thing I wrote was just a little instrumental piece that

479
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: I could that I could get through. I had another

480
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: uncle who was a fantastic guitar player, and he showed me.

481
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: You know, he would show me a chord and then

482
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: he would say, okay, now that you have that chord,

483
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: just just move a finger. Just pick one finger and

484
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: move it somewhere else and see what that sounds like.

485
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: So he kind of taught me how to explore different

486
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: variations of chords. So so I would, you know, I

487
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: saw him just a couple times a year, so every

488
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: time I saw him, I would show him what I

489
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: was doing and he would show me something else. So

490
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: right off the bat, I was like, all right, I

491
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: think I can create a song here. And I always

492
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: thought they were pretty good.

493
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: Would you be in playing them?

494
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: There was one song that my band started playing. This

495
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: was the first band that that started playing. And that's

496
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: actually how I discovered my singing voice. As a joke,

497
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: I sang it was a very kind of low registered song,

498
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: was very easy to sing. There was no pushing for

499
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: to hit any notes or anything. And at a sound

500
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: check one day, I was joking and I started pushing

501
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: and singing it aggressively and loudly. I was trying to

502
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 2: make everyone laugh, and when after it was over, they

503
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: all looked at me and went, what was that? And

504
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: they were like, they're all, you should do that more.

505
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: So that's how I kind of discovered that sing how

506
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: to sing a little bit, and that opened up the

507
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: writing a good bit.

508
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you go to community college, the band breaks up,

509
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: what happens with your music?

510
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: I still am playing. I still am playing, you know,

511
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: a little coffee shops. I start playing by myself. And

512
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: then when I went to Richmond to go to college,

513
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: I always stayed booking myself in whatever little coffee shop

514
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: or corner bar I could, just to keep doing it.

515
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: I just loved doing it so much. And not only

516
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: that felt like I had to do it, you know,

517
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: I felt like it was it was necessary for me

518
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: to do and so the music never stopped.

519
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: Okay, you moved to Richmond, you know now more than ever,

520
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: but even back days, you can play in a bar

521
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: and people can totally ignore you.

522
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so oh yes.

523
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: Did you get a good response or were you just

524
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: interly driven and say I don't give a shit out,

525
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm just doing this.

526
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, a mix of both. You know. The you can

527
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: play fifty gigs where you're ignored, and if you get

528
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: one gig that you get a response out of, that

529
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: will fuel you for hundreds more, you know, of people

530
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: ignoring you. So I played much more where people ignored

531
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: than people paid attention.

532
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: Okay, and this was singer songwriter type stuff.

533
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: You alone, Yeah, yeah, just me alone.

534
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: And if we put a genre on it, you know,

535
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: from one end there's James Taylor, the other end there's

536
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: Conway Twitty. Where are you on that? Continue?

537
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was probably you know, I was big into

538
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: I was big into sort of alternative country type of bands.

539
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: There were there were bands at the time, like there's

540
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: a band called sun Volt that I really loved. And

541
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: again I was I was pretty pretty deep into the

542
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: Springsteen at that point, so digging into his kind of

543
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: singer songwriter style. It wasn't it wasn't country yet. It

544
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: was definitely more of a singer songwriter folk music. You know,

545
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: there's a lot of there was a lot of bluegrass

546
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 2: and and old time music that was being played in

547
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 2: the area that I grew up, so that kind of

548
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 2: bled into it a little bit. I was just trying

549
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 2: to tell stories.

550
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: Okay. There's actually a pretty big punk scene in Virginia.

551
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: Did that influence you? Was that around?

552
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: It was around and I and in my my band

553
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: pork Rinds, we were we were intermixed with a lot

554
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 2: of those bands. And actually the drummer in our band

555
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: with an Old Dominion was at the time in the

556
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: punk scene at that time, so he was also he

557
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 2: was also someone I knew from middle school and was

558
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: in the drum line as well, So he wound up

559
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: going into the punk direction, and I wound up being

560
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 2: drawn more towards like college rock, Dave Matthews type of

561
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 2: things like that. So I was that was also happening

562
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 2: at the same time, so I didn't dive too much

563
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: into the punk scene.

564
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: Okay, you were in Richmond for three years. At what

565
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: point do you say? If you say, then this is

566
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: what I want to do as a career.

567
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: It was a graduation was coming up, and at that

568
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: point I started to realize, Okay, I can't I can't

569
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 2: do both. I think I got a I can't half

570
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: ass two things. So I love art, I love music.

571
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 2: My heart is telling me that I really want to

572
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 2: explore this music thing. So basically, as soon as I graduated,

573
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: the plan was Sorry, Mom and Dad, I know, you

574
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: just paid for college for art, but I want to

575
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: try this music thing. And then they took it.

576
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: Well, okay, you're in college, you're playing these gigs, but

577
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: it is college. Are you a partying Do you have

578
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: a girlfriend or are you just the guy that everybody says,

579
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: oh he's the music guy.

580
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 2: No, I was, I was. I'm not a huge partier.

581
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: I certainly did my time, and yeah, I had a girlfriend,

582
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: and then but also started another band in college, and

583
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: so I was already kind of pulled and lots of

584
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: different directions. I would much rather though.

585
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: Be.

586
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: The band at the party. Then I would go to

587
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: the party.

588
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you graduate, you decide you want to do music,

589
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: so what's your first step.

590
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: Well, I had this band at that point that was

591
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: just called the Matt Ramsey Band, and I ended up

592
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: moving to Blacksburg, Virginia, and I would just I would

593
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: just be on the phone constantly trying to try to

594
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: book myself anywhere, try to book this band anywhere, so

595
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: we play.

596
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: We still those of us were not Virginia savvy. What's

597
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: the story with.

598
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: Blacks Blacksburg is where Virginia Tech is. Okay, So that

599
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: was basically on the other side of Rono from my hometown,

600
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: big college town, and I would play all the bars

601
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 2: in Blacksburg, and then I would try to play in Roanoke,

602
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: and I'd go up to Harrisonburg, and there was a

603
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 2: there was a band in Harrisonburg. They were called Small

604
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 2: Town Workers, and with our drummer was in that band,

605
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: and that's how I ended up meeting Jeff, who is

606
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: our bassist now. So I would go up to Harrisonburg

607
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: and open for their band and did. I just did

608
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 2: everything I possibly could to play any kind of four

609
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: hour gig that would have me. Anytime anyone said I could, Hey,

610
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: can you play for five hours, I'd say yes, and

611
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: then I'd go learn a bunch of socks and then

612
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: I'll just play wherever, wherever I could. And in all

613
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: the while, you know, working at whatever landscaping job I

614
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 2: could get, or you know, to pay the bills. But

615
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: a certain music certainly wasn't paying the bills yet, So

616
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 2: I was working whatever jobs I could.

617
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: So how long do you do that for?

618
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: Well that was I graduated college in two thousand. I

619
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: moved to Nashville in two thousand and two. So it

620
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 2: was a couple just a couple of years of doing that.

621
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: Okay, so how do you decide to move to Nashville.

622
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: I was working. Well, a couple of things happened. There

623
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: was a public radio program called Mountain Stage right, and

624
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: I loved listening to that and all of the music

625
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: that was coming out of there. And they had a

626
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: like a festival, and so I went to this festival

627
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: and there were some seminars there, and I went to

628
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: this like songwriting seminar with a guy named Darryl Scott

629
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: and he's, you know, just an incredible songwriter and musician

630
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: and written a bunch of stuff for the Dixie Chicks

631
00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: and and Travis Tritt and I went to him after

632
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: the after the siminar, there was probably about twenty people there,

633
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: and I asked him what he thought about moving in Nashville,

634
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: and he said, well, if you're moving there to be

635
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: a star, then don't do it. But if you're moving

636
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 2: there to surround yourself with the best in the world

637
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: and learn from them, that, by all means I think

638
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: you should. So I took that to heart. And so

639
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: that was one thing that happened at the On the

640
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: other and I had made a little self produced CD

641
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 2: that I was selling at shows, and I was working

642
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: at a stained glass factory in Lynchburg, Virginia, and there

643
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: was a guy here in Nashville. He's an artist and

644
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 2: Songwriter's name's Phil Vassar, and he was he was doing

645
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: well at that point, that was kind of the height

646
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: of his career. And he's from Lynchburg, Virginia. And his

647
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: sister used to work for that stained glass company. And

648
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: she came into work one day and I gave her

649
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: a CD and said, you know, if you want to

650
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: throw it away, throw it away. If you like it

651
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: and want to pass it on, please do. And so

652
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks later, I get an email from

653
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 2: her and said, hey, this is really good. I want

654
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 2: to come by and get a couple more. I'm going

655
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: to Nashville in a month and I want to I

656
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: want to take some down there and get some people

657
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: to listen. And so she did, and then she emailed

658
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: me again and said, have you ever been to Nashville.

659
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: So she said, we'll come down and check it out.

660
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: So my boss lent me his car to drive to Nashville.

661
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 2: We drove down and just to be clear, you don't

662
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: have a car, I did, but yeah, it probably wasn't

663
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: good enough to make it to Nashville. So he said,

664
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: you know, take my car, go down there. They were

665
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: very supportive, obviously.

666
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: How far is it from Lynchburg to Nashville.

667
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 2: It's it's about seven and a half eight hours. And

668
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: I drove down and took me to the Bluebird, and

669
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: you know, I saw all these great writers and we

670
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: drove past this big house this on this road, Hillsboro Road.

671
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: There's all these beautiful houses on the way to the Bluebird,

672
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: and I was just like, wow, these houses are amazing.

673
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: And after the Bluebird, she said, well, we're going to

674
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: one of those houses. And she took me to Phil's

675
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: house and I sat down with him and he said, look, man,

676
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: you're obviously not an amateur at this. I listened to

677
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: your music. You're you have something, but you kind of

678
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 2: got to be here if you want to do it.

679
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: And a decision was made. I was like, okay, I'll

680
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: be here next month, and so I moved. That was

681
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: in August and I moved in October.

682
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: Okay, we're in this story. Does your writing and your

683
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: performance become more country than rock?

684
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: There was a there was a moment in my probably

685
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: my senior year of college, I was working. I was

686
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 2: working at a recycling plant and I was literally sorting

687
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: trash and the country radio was on and it had

688
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 2: been on in my I knew it all. It had

689
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 2: been on in my house growing up. My parents listened

690
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 2: to it. It was never my favorite, except for the

691
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 2: like kind of old school stuff I really loved, and

692
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 2: I never really paid much attention to how much which

693
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 2: I actually did know of what was happening on the radio.

694
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: But then there was a song that came on, I

695
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: think it was an Alan Jackson song that came on

696
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: while I was at work, and I just had this

697
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: thought of like, wow, I can do this. This was

698
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: they are singing about my life. I grew up in

699
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: this little town, and this is all about my life.

700
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: I can write that stuff. That's who I am. So

701
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: then I started to listen to it a lot more

702
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: and focus on stories about my life and growing up

703
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: where I did, and try to start changing it a

704
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 2: little bit. Shorts country.

705
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you decide to move to Nashville. Where do you

706
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: get a place? What are you doing for money? You

707
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: know you land, You don't really know anybody.

708
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just we got so at that point, I

709
00:44:59,360 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: was married.

710
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: And but just to peak, we wait to hold on

711
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: a second. Did you marry the girl who was your

712
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: girlfriend in college?

713
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: Yes?

714
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: Yes, are you still married to that woman?

715
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: We are still married. It has had not you know,

716
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: it's ups and downs, but we are still married.

717
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: Yes. Let me ask you this, since we're this far,

718
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: do you live in the same house.

719
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: No, we do not live in the same house right now.

720
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: Is this one of the downs of ups and downs?

721
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: Or is this the end?

722
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: It's one of the it's one of the downs.

723
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: And you say you have children too.

724
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: We do have two daughters.

725
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: They are.

726
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 2: The best thing on the planet. And we are very good.

727
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: We're very good with them.

728
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: And how old are they and what are they up to?

729
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: My oldest is eighteen, and she goes to the University

730
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 2: of Kentucky. And my youngest is turning sixteen in just

731
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: a few days here, so she goes. She's a sophomore

732
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: in high school.

733
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you got this girl you meet, you're in arts school.

734
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: You know, we're in the picture. Did you get married?

735
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: We're in the continue and we're in the right.

736
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: Right after graduation, very young, right after graduation, we got married.

737
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: Did you want to get married or how did that

738
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: end up happening?

739
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. Yeah, you know, I think we

740
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 2: were both young, and we both grew up in this

741
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: very small community where that's just what you did, and

742
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 2: I think we we bought into that, you know, and

743
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 2: we're very happy to get married.

744
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're an itinerant musician working dog shit jobs.

745
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: What is she doing.

746
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 2: Once we moved to Nashville?

747
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: She no, No, before you moved to Nashville.

748
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're both working dogshit jobs. She was studying.

749
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: She wanted to be a she wanted to be a veterinarian,

750
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 2: and so she was working towards that, but wasn't having

751
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: much luck getting into that. School is very competitive. So

752
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: that's one reason we wound up in Blacksburg was she

753
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 2: was working at Virginia Tech, which is a big that school.

754
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: Once that started to become clear that that wasn't going

755
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: to happen, that's when I started going, well, Okay, that's

756
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 2: not going to happen. Then maybe we moved to Nashville.

757
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: Did she believe in your dream?

758
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: She did, although she had no concept of it. I

759
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: don't think she's not a she's not an artist, and

760
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 2: she knew how much I wanted it, and obviously she

761
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: was a fan of what I did. There was no

762
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 2: way she could have known what we were getting into.

763
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 2: I didn't even know what we were getting into. She

764
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: blindly trusted me and followed me to Nashville.

765
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: Okay, sometimes the significant other is your biggest cheerleader, say

766
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: you can make it, you can do it, let's do it.

767
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: Other times they're completely the opposite. They're reluctant. No, I

768
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: married you, this is not what I'm in for. Where

769
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: was she?

770
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 2: It just it changed. I think she was certainly my

771
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: biggest fan for a long time. Once no one is prepared,

772
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 2: no one is prepared for what this career can once

773
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 2: it blows up, it is what. It became very difficult.

774
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: She never lost her belief in me, but it is

775
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 2: super tough to be to be there with me for

776
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 2: so long and then and then I'm just gone, you know, uh,

777
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: And and she's you know, we're we're I'm gone. And

778
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 2: not only am I gone, we're broke. You know, we're

779
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: not making any money, but I'm going out on the road.

780
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: And it became very tough. So it it's that's probably

781
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 2: when it got super money, you.

782
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: Know, So when you have your success, does that improve

783
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: the relationship or make it worse?

784
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: Initially made it worse. Uh, it's definitely. Like I said,

785
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: it's I'm still in therapy trying to figure it all out.

786
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: So it definitely it just becomes you know, I'm pulled

787
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 2: in a million different directions, and you know, I'm definitely

788
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: wasn't good at I wasn't good at sharing it, and

789
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 2: I don't think she wasn't very good at at watching

790
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 2: it happen, because, as I said, she didn't quite understand it.

791
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: So when you're not making any money and you're still

792
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: chasing after something and you got little babies, it becomes

793
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: super difficult. And you know, it looks like a it

794
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: looks like a party, you know, all the time. So

795
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 2: I think it just it became difficult for us both

796
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 2: to to understand what was happening.

797
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: So once the money does come in, does that help

798
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: the situation? Not really.

799
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 2: Neither neither one of us are are wherever really drawn

800
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: to money, you know, where we're not money oriented or

801
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 2: motivated people. So you know, certainly it certainly helped in

802
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: ways that we could pay the bills, you know, but

803
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: you know, I think at that point.

804
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: We had.

805
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: We had neglected each other for for enough time that

806
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: the money was not gonna help that.

807
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: Just to get the timeline right, you're presently not living

808
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: under the same roof. When was the last time you

809
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: lived under the same roof.

810
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: It's been three years.

811
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: Okay, you know you're a guy, you're from back roads, backwoods.

812
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: For idea, how do you decide to go to therapy?

813
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: I needed therapy. Uh this this industry, Like I said,

814
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: I was not prepared. I naively thought as as I

815
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: was chasing this dream, I naively thought I was going

816
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: to create music that resonated with the world or with

817
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 2: a certain group of people. That was my goal. I

818
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: did not think about people caring about me and a

819
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,479
Speaker 2: celebrity aspect of it. That was that never entered my brain.

820
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 2: For whatever reason, you know, I and I moved here. Honestly,

821
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: part of it is because I moved here to be

822
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 2: a songwriter. I didn't move here. I moved here with

823
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: Daryl Scott's advice. I want to learn and I wanted

824
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 2: to be a songwriter. I wasn't trying to be in

825
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 2: a band that was successful. And once it all started

826
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: happening and I started seeing you know, people asking me

827
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: for my picture and things like that. That really started

828
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 2: to mess with my head. I really started to get

829
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 2: confused with what was I doing this for and what

830
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 2: are my motivations here? And I am just this small

831
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: town guy, but people are treating me like a like

832
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: something else, and I just got lost in that and

833
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 2: trying to figure out who I thought I was as

834
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 2: a man and who I want to be as a man,

835
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 2: and who I thought other people thought I should be

836
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: as a man. And finally got to a point where

837
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 2: I was just like, I got to talk to somebody

838
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 2: about this because I don't know how to process all this.

839
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 2: So therapy is still a big part of my big

840
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 2: part of my life.

841
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 1: So how often do you go? Do you do remote

842
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: visits when you're on.

843
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 2: The road, Yes, it's a it's a weekly thing, and

844
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 2: I do. I do zoom calls and UH and and

845
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: in person calls as well. It's really helpful, it's it's

846
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: really has helped me. One therapist that changed it all

847
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 2: for me explain to me that I was in the

848
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 2: service industry and for for whatever reason, I had never

849
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: thought about it like that, and she helped me see

850
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 2: that by doing what I'm doing it's it's not for me,

851
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: it's for it's for others. And that was like a

852
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: light switch moment for me. That made that made all

853
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 2: of the pictures and and autographs and things like that

854
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: seem so simple that I could make someone's day just

855
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: by doing that, and that takes nothing from me. So

856
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 2: it helped me kind of wrap my head around what

857
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 2: we do and it's not about it's not about me,

858
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: it's about the music. And it helped it helped me

859
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 2: figure out that's a part of it. Obviously, people care

860
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: what I wear, you know, which is silly, but that's

861
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 2: just part of it.

862
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 1: Okay, we're guys, you're on the road, you're recognizable, guy

863
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 1: in a band with hit records. I'll just bottom line it.

864
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: There are groupies. To what degree do you say? You

865
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: know I'm here this? You know, how'd you deal with that?

866
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 2: Yeah? We're all, you know, Luckily we're all. It all

867
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: happened in a certain time in our lives where we're

868
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 2: you know, we didn't break till we were in our

869
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 2: mid thirties. We all got kids, you know, which we're

870
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: trying to be the best dads we can and so

871
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 2: that that was not a huge part of our story.

872
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: You know, as much as people want to be rock

873
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 2: and roll, sex, drugs and rock and roll, we always

874
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 2: call ourselves the most boring band ever because we play

875
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 2: show and go a bit.

876
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: Did that contribute whether things happened or didn't happen to

877
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: tension in your marriage.

878
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly. It's certainly something that that can play

879
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:33,439
Speaker 2: into anyone's insecurities for sure. So it definitely, like I said,

880
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 2: it looks like a party. It looks like there's groupies,

881
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 2: you know. There there's certain certainly an idea of that's

882
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 2: portrayed in movies and stuff like that. You know that

883
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 2: the kids in people's heads, and you know, there's certainly

884
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: that aspect of this business that exists. But we did

885
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 2: a pretty good job of managing.

886
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: Okay, see land in Nashville. What are your first steps?

887
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: What do you do for money and what do you

888
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: do on your for your career?

889
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: First thing I did was I, uh, for money, I got.

890
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 2: My first job was two minute a truck. I was

891
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: working for a moving company. I worked probably seven different

892
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: jobs in the first year and a half that I

893
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 2: moved here. And then I would just go I would

894
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: cold call people and ask him if I could come

895
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 2: in and play him some music, and I would play

896
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: my music for Phil a lot, who would just tell

897
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: me to keep going, You're doing the right thing. He

898
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: would take me out on the road with him sometimes

899
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 2: to do what he's like, if this is what you

900
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 2: want to do with your life, then you need to

901
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 2: see what it's like. So I'd go out on the

902
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: road and just hang out and write, and eventually, whenever

903
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: I went, they would strip a tarm me. I'd play

904
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 2: the show with him. So I would go out for

905
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 2: you know, a week at a time or so, and

906
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: then come home and and just try to meet other

907
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 2: writers and dip my toe into the co writing world

908
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 2: and try to learn how to write with other people

909
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 2: and play songwriter nights whenever I could. And it was,

910
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's a grind. It's definitely not a quick process.

911
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 2: You learned that pretty quickly that you're you're in it

912
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: for the long all.

913
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: Okay, are you a good networker? No?

914
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: I'm better now. I was a terrible networker for a while,

915
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: but I had some help. There was a guy named

916
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 2: mike'sis dad who works at ASCAP still is at ASCAP,

917
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 2: and he would make calls for me and say up

918
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 2: meetings with publishers and I go play them my music.

919
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 2: I'm and it was it was tough to figure out

920
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 2: how to break into that networking scene because again I'm

921
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 2: I'm not a partier, so I didn't want to go

922
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 2: out at night and you know, get hammered with a

923
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 2: bunch of people. Not to say I didn't a couple

924
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 2: of times, you know, to try and make us connections,

925
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 2: but not the best of networking.

926
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: Okay, you're doing all these things, You're playing new music

927
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: other than Phil you know, this is a jaded world.

928
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: Are you getting any positive feedback?

929
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: Yes, so I got a good bit of positive feedback.

930
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: But also, you know, these publishers that you're playing for

931
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: a lot of times they'll they'll tell you straight up

932
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 2: you know it's not good, which never bothered me. I

933
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: always credit my my art school background for that, because

934
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 2: when you work for a couple of weeks on a

935
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 2: on a piece of art, and then at the end

936
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 2: of the project, you go into class and everyone puts

937
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 2: their paintings up on the wall and you go down

938
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 2: the line and critique them. You learn pretty quickly to

939
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 2: have thick skin and take criticism for what it is.

940
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 2: You know, some of it's useful and some of it

941
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 2: you just don't agree with. So I kind of learned.

942
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 2: I learned how to navigate that kind of feeling. So

943
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: I was going into these publishing offices and I'd play

944
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 2: a song. Sometimes they would stop it halfway through and

945
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 2: go what else you got? You just go okay, and

946
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: you just keep on, just keep on writing, and you know,

947
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: then eventually you get one. They go, oh, you hit

948
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 2: something there. There's something that one. There's something special about

949
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 2: that one. So figure out what you did there and

950
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 2: do more of that, and then you go back and

951
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 2: dig in.

952
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: And at what point do you start going to co

953
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: writing sessions.

954
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 2: It took me, it probably it took me a couple

955
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: of years to do that. I ended up meeting you

956
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 2: know this. There was a couple of publishers that I

957
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 2: was visiting regularly and they kept on mentioning this guy,

958
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: Trevor Rosen that I should meet. And this is this

959
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 2: is not two years after living in Nashville. And they said, man,

960
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 2: you guys I think should get together, and I think

961
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 2: you guys could create something pretty well together. And so

962
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: I heard his name a lot, and then one night

963
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 2: I was playing a songwriter around at this little bar

964
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 2: called Hobo Joe's and it's not it's not there anymore,

965
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 2: and they had I was paired on stage with Trevor

966
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: and I was like, Oh, this is the guy I've

967
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 2: been hearing about. And he said, man, I've been hearing

968
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 2: your name everywhere, like these guys have been telling me

969
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: that I need to hook up with you. So right there, immediately,

970
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 2: he and I were big fans of each other's music

971
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 2: and decided, you know, we need to start hanging out

972
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: and try to write songs together. So he was not

973
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 2: my first co write, but the first long lasting co writer.

974
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: Okay, you're writing he's ultimately in the band. Are you

975
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: writing with anybody else? Yeah?

976
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: We ended up throughout the course of a couple of years,

977
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 2: we ended up in this circle of writers. Josh Osborne,

978
01:02:52,760 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 2: Shane McAnally, Brandy Clark, Matt Jenkins, Trevor and myself wound

979
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 2: up kind of in this little clique where we were

980
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 2: writing stuff that we loved and no one else really

981
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 2: got it, but we knew that we were excited about it.

982
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: So that was that was our little club, and no

983
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: one really had any success yet. Uh, those guys were

984
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 2: going to become the biggest songwriters in Nashville. But that's

985
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 2: that's who we really found a home with as writers

986
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:32,439
Speaker 2: in the early days.

987
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: Okay, Shane mcinally ends up becoming a big name. When

988
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: you meet him, what's his status?

989
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: He he had I think he was living in this

990
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: tiny little house and he had just gotten one song

991
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 2: recorded by lea An Willmack, And that's when I first

992
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 2: met him, and I was like, Oh, this guy's got

993
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 2: something going on.

994
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: You know.

995
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: That was a really big, big deal at that point

996
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: in time. So he had just started to scratch the

997
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 2: surface of having a little success.

998
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: And when do you get your first cover.

999
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't until about thirteen years after being in Nashville.

1000
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 2: I got a song Trevor and I Matt Jenkins wrote

1001
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 2: that was recorded by an artist named Steve Holy and

1002
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 2: he's a Texas guy and he had had a career

1003
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 2: in the nineties and he had just had this big

1004
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 2: hit that was kind of like a comeback for him,

1005
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 2: and he cut a song of ours, and we thought, oh,

1006
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: you know, Steve Hole, he's back. So he had this

1007
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 2: big hit and ours is the next single. Of course,

1008
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 2: it didn't do anything.

1009
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: Okay, thirteen years go by, do you ever think of

1010
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: giving up?

1011
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 2: Certainly there were those moments where where you're definitely thinking

1012
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: about why am I doing this? But then you quickly realize,

1013
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 2: like I've been in it this long, what else am

1014
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 2: I going to do?

1015
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: You know?

1016
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 2: And there's just enough of a carrot. There's always just

1017
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: enough of something that's that's motivating you to keep going.

1018
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 2: And it could be it could be some positive feedback,

1019
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 2: or it could be just a song that you wrote

1020
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 2: that you feel like you leveled up on. Or it

1021
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 2: could be someone like Shane having he did it and

1022
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 2: I'm right next to him. He's got he's got a song,

1023
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 2: So it's possible. You can see those possibilities and it

1024
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 2: just keeps you going. But it is tough. And those

1025
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 2: times where you know they're turning your water off because

1026
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 2: you can't pay the bills, that that you feel like

1027
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 2: maybe you should give up.

1028
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: Okay, you have that first cover which doesn't pan out.

1029
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: How many more covers do you have till one does?

1030
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: And what is that?

1031
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 2: My next cut was a song called wake Up Loving You,

1032
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 2: and Craig Morgan recorded it and that song, that song

1033
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 2: in particular, there's a whole story about how that song

1034
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 2: opened up a whole new world before before, before Craig

1035
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 2: Morgan recorded it. At this point, we were writing a lot. Obviously,

1036
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 2: I'm trying to trying to make it happen. You know,

1037
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: I'm broke, can't pay my bills. We had mentioned that

1038
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 2: I was not a good networker, and I was frustrated.

1039
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 2: It was really frustrated that I wasn't able to get

1040
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 2: myself in front of the right people at this point,

1041
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 2: and we were, like I said, we were completely broke.

1042
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 2: There there's a songwriter festival that's actually happening right now

1043
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 2: in Key West called the Q West Songwriter Festival, And

1044
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 2: back then it was kind of it was a huge deal,

1045
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 2: and everybody in Nashville went down to Key West and

1046
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 2: at this songwriter festival. And I thought, well, Okay, if

1047
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 2: I can just get down to Key West and spend

1048
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 2: three days down there at the songwriter festival, everyone in

1049
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 2: Nashville that I need to talk to is down there.

1050
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 2: I gotta find a way down there, but I can't

1051
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: afford it. So I said, if I could find a

1052
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 2: plane ticket down there, I'm going. So I have a

1053
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 2: friend and whose brother is a pilot, and he gave

1054
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 2: me a stand by ticket, so I flew stand by.

1055
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 2: You know, I had to pay taxes. It costs like

1056
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 2: twenty bucks. And I was waiting there. I didn't have

1057
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 2: a place to stay. I put a sleeping bag in

1058
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 2: my suitcase and I said, I'll just I'll sleep on

1059
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 2: the street. I don't care. So I flew down to

1060
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 2: Key West. I'm literally wheeling my suitcase down the street

1061
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 2: and I see another person that I know, and he

1062
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 2: said he's a songwriter. And he said, hey, I didn't

1063
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 2: know you were coming. Where are you stay? And I said,

1064
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't have a place to stay.

1065
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 2: And he said, well, there's an extra bed in my

1066
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 2: room if you want to crash there. I said, I

1067
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 2: definitely do, so he gave me a place to stay.

1068
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 2: So I went to Walgreens and I bought an eight

1069
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 2: dollars box of granola bars, and that was what I

1070
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 2: was going to eat for those three days. And then

1071
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,560
Speaker 2: my friend Mike's his dad from ASCAP was there and

1072
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 2: he said, if you want to meet me for dinner

1073
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 2: every night, I'll pay for your dinner. So he'd pay

1074
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 2: for my dinner every night, and then I would just

1075
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 2: go to all these shows and songwriter showcases and meet

1076
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 2: people and talk to them. And ASCAP at the time

1077
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 2: was hosting them an after hours sort of open mic

1078
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 2: night that was at this little place called the Bottle

1079
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 2: Cap and they had a house band and you would

1080
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 2: show up at like midnight and I hope they called

1081
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 2: you up to go play your song. And so the

1082
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 2: first night I went and they would didn't call me up.

1083
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 2: The second night, I go and they didn't call me up.

1084
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 2: In the third night, it's probably about two thirty in

1085
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 2: the morning, and they called me up and I, you know,

1086
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 2: I've explained to the house band, here's the chords, just

1087
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 2: you know, here's what we're going to do, and we

1088
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 2: played this song wake Up Loving You, and it brings

1089
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 2: the house down. I mean, it was just a huge reaction.

1090
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 2: Everyone just flips out. The next morning, everyone is coming

1091
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 2: up to me, going, what did you do last night?

1092
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 2: Because the only thing that I hear about is what

1093
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 2: you did whether you know your song, so you must

1094
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 2: have really made an impact. And that song, that moment,

1095
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 2: and that song got me a publishing deal after that,

1096
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 2: so I can finally pay my deals. So the you know,

1097
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 2: the the eight dollars granola bars and the free plane

1098
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:47,599
Speaker 2: ticket got me that publishing deal.

1099
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 1: Okay, at this late date, do you own your songs

1100
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 1: where you still love a publishing deal?

1101
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 2: Right now? I have a publishing deal, but it's an

1102
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 2: admin d so, so I just paid you know, a

1103
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 2: percentage for admin.

1104
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: Well, how about all your earlier stuff?

1105
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a couple of catalogs I've I've done a

1106
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 2: couple of catalog sales. Uh, you know, there's not much

1107
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,640
Speaker 2: going on. I got my money from it, and so

1108
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 2: I've sold some catalogs. So some of them I don't own,

1109
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 2: but now going.

1110
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: Forward I do. So you sold catalog to covers or

1111
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: catalogs of old Dominion.

1112
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 2: Stuff, anything that these are. I've sold catalogs that are

1113
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 2: just exploited work. So I still own parts of the

1114
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 2: Old Dominion stuff. And of course you know, we have

1115
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 2: ownership and masters and things like that too, So anything

1116
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 2: that's a bit exploited. So some some of them are

1117
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 2: Old Dominion songs and some of them are other artists.

1118
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so you go to key West, you get this,

1119
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: does it start to roll? Do you start getting more covers?

1120
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? Once you once, once we finally got that that

1121
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 2: publishing deal, and then Craig Morgan records that song. I

1122
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 2: think it went to like number thirteen or something on

1123
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 2: the charge was a big deal for me at that

1124
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 2: point in time. And you know, I'm you know, at

1125
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 2: that point, then Shane's starting to take off and and

1126
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 2: we're starting We're writing a lot of stuff together. We

1127
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 2: start to get a little bit more traction. So finally

1128
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 2: then we wrote a song, Shane and Trevor and I

1129
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 2: and I wrote a song called say You Do that

1130
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 2: Dirk's Bentley recorded, and that wound up being my first

1131
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 2: number one solid.

1132
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 1: Okay, at what point do you and Trevor say we're

1133
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 1: going to form a band?

1134
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,679
Speaker 2: It was kind of all happening at the same time,

1135
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 2: but it wasn't. It wasn't a decision that was like,

1136
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: let's form a band and go for it. We were

1137
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: writing all these songs and and uh, you know, I'd

1138
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 2: grow I grew up in bands. That's all I did,

1139
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 2: was was playing music I liked. I loved playing music out.

1140
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 2: So I and I now had all these songs that

1141
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 2: I was writing, I wanted to go play them out

1142
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 2: and I would I would try to put together a

1143
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 2: band to help me showcase you know, I would invite

1144
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 2: publishers to come hear them so that I could sing them.

1145
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 2: And at that time, Jeff and Witt had moved to

1146
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 2: Nashville to be they wanted to be touring musicians or

1147
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 2: studio musicians, and yeah, so I had some buddies from

1148
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 2: Virginia that were in town, excuse me, and I would

1149
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 2: just call them and say, Hey, I've got a show,

1150
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 2: can you guys come play. I knew they wouldn't really

1151
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 2: charge me because there were a buddies, so they would

1152
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 2: come play. And so we started doing that in town

1153
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 2: pretty often. And for years we did that with no

1154
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 2: real you know, it would be my name or there

1155
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 2: would be no there was no real band name or

1156
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 2: anything to it. It was just be and a lot

1157
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,799
Speaker 2: of the songs I was writing with Trevor, and Trevor

1158
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 2: was always coming to the shows, and he was always

1159
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 2: frustrated because nobody was singing background vocals, and you know,

1160
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 2: he's he's ain'tal about that kind of stuff. So he

1161
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 2: would jump up on the stage and start singing the

1162
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 2: background vocals to the songs that we that we wrote.

1163
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 2: And then next thing, you know, he's coming to rehearsals

1164
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 2: and you know, the guys are like, okay, Trevor's here now,

1165
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 2: you know. We were just kind of then we started realizing, Okay,

1166
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 2: we can get in my van and we can drive

1167
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,800
Speaker 2: to the next town over and we can get paid

1168
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: to play. Yeah, you don't get paid to play in Nashville,

1169
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,599
Speaker 2: so oh we could we all need money. Let's go play.

1170
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:03,720
Speaker 2: We can play covers and stuff, and let's go play.

1171
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 2: So we would just drive around and try to make

1172
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 2: a little extra cash. And then ultimately what started happening

1173
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 2: was we did start having success as songwriters, and then

1174
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 2: people started going, well, oh, you know, Trevor's having a

1175
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 2: bunch of He's getting a bunch of songs cut. I'm

1176
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 2: getting songs cut. And they start going, well, who's this

1177
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:30,799
Speaker 2: band that's writing everybody else's stuff? So our show became

1178
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 2: you know, there there were hits already in our show,

1179
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 2: and it started to create a little buzz around town

1180
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: about what we were doing.

1181
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: At what point do you start calling it old Dominion.

1182
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 2: We had this little bar well we played. We would

1183
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:53,640
Speaker 2: play in tuscal Loose, Alabama a lot, and we had

1184
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 2: this person that hooked us up with a bar there

1185
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:57,719
Speaker 2: and we'd drive down to tuscal Losa and we played,

1186
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 2: you know, from ten thirty to two in the morning,

1187
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 2: and then we drive back. And one night we were

1188
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 2: taking a break and there was this kind of haggard

1189
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 2: woman sitting at the bar and she said, what's the

1190
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 2: name of your band? And I said, well, we don't

1191
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 2: we don't really have any We're not really a band,

1192
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 2: you know, We're just it's just I'm writing these songs.

1193
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 2: And she, she was drunk, she just goes, that's bullshit.

1194
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 2: You guys are a band. And when she said that,

1195
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 2: we all looked at each other and went, we kind

1196
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 2: of like, you know, we should have probably let's pick

1197
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 2: a Nate. We should pick a Nate. So so and

1198
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 2: being that Wit and Jeff and at the time we

1199
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 2: had a guitar player. He was named Devin Malone. They're

1200
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 2: all from Virginia, there are, and so we thought, well,

1201
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 2: let's pick a Virginia related name. And so we used

1202
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 2: to play at this little bar called the Blue Bar

1203
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 2: every week in Nashville and there was nobody there, you know,

1204
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 2: we were just we had a regular gig there. If

1205
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 2: there's five to ten people would show up. And I

1206
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 2: was setting up. We were setting up to play that

1207
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 2: night and uh, this is in two thousand and six,

1208
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 2: is probably seven. We were setting up that night and

1209
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 2: I said, man, the only thing I can see that's

1210
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:24,560
Speaker 2: r GINU related that isn't taken his old dominion. And

1211
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:28,160
Speaker 2: everybody just went, that sounds cool. And so that was

1212
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 2: it from the from that night on, we were we

1213
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 2: were old dimension.

1214
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: A lot of people they say, like the Doobie Brothers,

1215
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 1: they say, you know, yeah, we just had this name.

1216
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:38,720
Speaker 1: We never thought we'd stick with it, and all of

1217
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: a sudden we wake up and we're.

1218
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 2: Stuck with it.

1219
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know you had to you know, this

1220
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: was years before you know, you broke through his old dominion.

1221
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 1: If you knew we're going to break through, would you've

1222
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 1: picked old dominion or would you have said wait a second,

1223
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 1: wait to say, lem come.

1224
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 2: Up with something different. I mean, naming a band is

1225
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 2: the worst thing, you know, It's none of them ever

1226
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 2: sound good until they until they're just a part of

1227
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 2: people's vocabulary. So I think I love our name. I

1228
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 2: don't regret it at all. There was a moment where

1229
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 2: we thought we were going to have to change it,

1230
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 2: and things had started to take off a little bit,

1231
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 2: and we had this attorney that was telling us, hey

1232
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,280
Speaker 2: that I don't think you're going to be able to

1233
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 2: do this. There's you know, there's Old Dominion everything. There's

1234
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 2: a trucking line, there's a beer company, there's the university.

1235
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 2: And he said the university is probably the biggest thing

1236
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 2: because they have a band. You know, they have the

1237
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 2: marching band, they have merch. You know, they're going to

1238
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,559
Speaker 2: come after you and we're gonna have to change the name.

1239
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 2: So we thought about it and time we've tried to

1240
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:48,800
Speaker 2: come up with any other name that we could, and

1241
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 2: it got so frustrating. I was just like, fuck this,

1242
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this anymore. You know, I'll

1243
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 2: just quit, Like, let's not do this. I don't I

1244
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:02,640
Speaker 2: don't want to change the name. And then Trevor is

1245
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 2: a pretty he's he's a pretty motivated guy and can

1246
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 2: find Yeah. He's like, man, I don't care what this

1247
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 2: lawyer says, I'm gonna find I'm going to reach out

1248
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 2: to Old Dominion. So he finds he likes, goes up

1249
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 2: the email chain and finds somebody at Old Dominion University

1250
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,599
Speaker 2: and says, hey, we're in this band. It's called the Dominion.

1251
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 2: Our lawyer is telling us we need to change the name.

1252
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 2: Was afraid you guys are gonna sue us. What do

1253
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 2: you think? And they came back and said, you know,

1254
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 2: as long as you don't use our colors and you

1255
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 2: don't use our logo, we're fine with it. So we

1256
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 2: got we got that in writing and then from that

1257
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 2: twenty one we were we felt good by it.

1258
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:55,680
Speaker 1: Okay, this lead date, I'm sure Old Dominion is a

1259
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: corporation who owns Old Dominion the band.

1260
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,640
Speaker 2: The band, five of us are. It's a partnership following us.

1261
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so now you got some covers, you get some notice.

1262
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 1: How do you end up deciding to cut your own record?

1263
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 2: You know, we were making a lot of demos of

1264
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:23,679
Speaker 2: the songs that we were writing. I had a publishing

1265
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 2: deal that wasn't the best deal in the world. But

1266
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 2: the one of the guys there was a he's a

1267
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 2: producer and a successful one. His name is Blake Chancey

1268
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 2: and he's worked with back then. He had done Montgomery

1269
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:44,639
Speaker 2: Gentry and Dizzy Chicks and a lot of other people.

1270
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 2: And my first demo session was coming up from that

1271
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 2: publishing deal, and he's a bolt. You know, you guys

1272
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 2: playing a band, Why don't you guys just instead of

1273
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 2: hiring a bunch of musicians, he did your buddies to

1274
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 2: come in. So he was trying to save money, and

1275
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 2: so we did and that's the first time we recorded

1276
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 2: together and thought, well, this is pretty cool. That was fun.

1277
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 2: We should think about doing that again. So as we

1278
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 2: were trying to figure out how we would go about

1279
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 2: doing that, looking for talking about maybe finding a producer

1280
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:28,760
Speaker 2: or something to help us do it, we realized, you know,

1281
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:33,879
Speaker 2: in our demo sessions, Shane was such a strong creative

1282
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:38,920
Speaker 2: voice in bringing those demos to life that maybe we

1283
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 2: should just use him. That he's our friend. He's been

1284
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 2: with us this whole time. He's writing all these songs

1285
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 2: with us. So we sat down at lunch with him

1286
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 2: and said, would you come into the studio with us

1287
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 2: and maybe try producing it?

1288
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:54,639
Speaker 1: And he was like, are you sure?

1289
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:57,439
Speaker 2: He said, yeah, man, you're always so good in the

1290
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 2: demo sessions. You're always so fast and your choices are

1291
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 2: so cool. We'd rather have you in there than trying

1292
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,639
Speaker 2: to find somebody that is, you know, hot.

1293
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 1: To do it.

1294
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:14,560
Speaker 2: So he agreed and and that's how we started that partnership.

1295
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:21,600
Speaker 1: Okay, the original album EP whatever, who pays for it?

1296
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 1: We had a.

1297
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 2: Well he signed kind of an independent deal this It

1298
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 2: was like a partnership with thirty Tigers and U Reguier,

1299
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 2: who was Trevor's publisher at the time. They helped fund

1300
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 2: it so that we could put out an independent project.

1301
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: Do you remember how much money you spent?

1302
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 2: No idea, Uh, it probably wasn't. It wasn't much. It

1303
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 2: was it was five or six songs. It probably was

1304
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 2: forty or something.

1305
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:05,799
Speaker 1: Okay, what is your intention with recording the album?

1306
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: At that point? We thought, okay, well, even before that,

1307
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 2: we had recorded some stuff that that stuff that we'd

1308
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:18,759
Speaker 2: recorded with my publisher. We were at that point playing shows.

1309
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 2: We had named ourselves Old Dominion, and we were giving

1310
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 2: them out for free. So we would just show up

1311
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,439
Speaker 2: at a bar, we'd play the show, everybody gets a

1312
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 2: free ZP. So that was one thing that we were doing,

1313
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 2: was just trying to build this following. And we thought

1314
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 2: the same thing like, if we can make a make

1315
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 2: a little EP, we can maybe shop it around and

1316
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 2: try to get it picked up, or hire a manager

1317
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:52,560
Speaker 2: and get on the radio. Somehow, pretty naive, but it

1318
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 2: had enough momentum to keep us going like this seems

1319
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 2: like the next step. So I'm not sure what's going

1320
01:23:58,240 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 2: to happen with it, but we need new music out

1321
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 2: because we've given out all the freezds we can. So

1322
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 2: let's see if we can create something that's the next

1323
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:07,799
Speaker 2: step for ourselves.

1324
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you're given the CD away. When does it turn

1325
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 1: into something?

1326
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 2: That CD had had some songs on it that it

1327
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 2: had wake Up Loving You on it, and it had

1328
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 2: had another song on there called Nowhere Fast. I think

1329
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 2: that that wound up making it over into the next EP.

1330
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 2: And and then we had a song on there called

1331
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 2: shut Me Up, which at this point now we have

1332
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 2: a manager and we're starting to talk to satellite radio

1333
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 2: and try to get some play there, and so shut

1334
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 2: Me Up was the first choice. Where we had started,

1335
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,719
Speaker 2: we had a little independent radio staff. It was one person,

1336
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:15,679
Speaker 2: a radio person that was shopping that song around trying

1337
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:19,679
Speaker 2: to get it on to the radio. In the meantime,

1338
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 2: we're recording more music to try to create a full album,

1339
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:32,000
Speaker 2: and break Up with Them was on that. And so

1340
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 2: once we had once we had this album of music,

1341
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 2: and every record label had turned us down more than once,

1342
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 2: we just kept going satellite radio picked up break Up

1343
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,479
Speaker 2: with Him, and they started playing break Up with Them,

1344
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 2: and then a guy in Seattle at a radio station

1345
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 2: heard it on saturd Light radio. And meanwhile, we're trying

1346
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 2: to get him to play shove Me Up, and nobody

1347
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 2: will play shot Me Up. But he heard. He hears

1348
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 2: break up with Him and said, Okay, there's something here.

1349
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,719
Speaker 2: So he starts calling all his friends in the radio world,

1350
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, we have a song on

1351
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:23,400
Speaker 2: the radio with no record deal. So that never happens,

1352
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 2: but that's how it happened for us.

1353
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:30,559
Speaker 1: Okay, break up with Him is starting to get radio action.

1354
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:34,760
Speaker 1: Let's go back a chapter. The guy you hire as

1355
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 1: your manager, is he still your manager?

1356
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 2: He's still our manager?

1357
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: So who is it and how'd you find him?

1358
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:46,600
Speaker 2: His name's Clinton Higham, He's he's Kenny Chesney's manager and

1359
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:49,519
Speaker 2: he was working at this He has a company called

1360
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 2: Morris Higham Dale Morris as was partner at the time.

1361
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 2: Dale's responsible for Alabama And at the time, you know,

1362
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 2: we had we had secured it deal with c AA

1363
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 2: as a booking as a booking agent. But you know

1364
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:08,719
Speaker 2: we're they're booking us for five hundred bucks a show,

1365
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, and we'd like, okay, we need we need

1366
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 2: to find a manager. We took meetings all over town

1367
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 2: with every manager that we could, and we had actually

1368
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 2: made the decision to go with with another manager, and

1369
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 2: at the at the eleventh hour, Shane calls it says, hey,

1370
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 2: Clint him wants to meet with you guys, and we said, well, man,

1371
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:38,679
Speaker 2: we we already kind of made our decision. He said,

1372
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,679
Speaker 2: I know yet, you know, you haven't signed anything. Doesn't

1373
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:44,759
Speaker 2: hurt to go meet with him. He's just he's really interested.

1374
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 2: So we said, okay, sure, what's it been hurt? And

1375
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 2: we walked out of that meeting, going, that's our guy.

1376
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:58,599
Speaker 1: Okay, he's the top level manager. A lot of times

1377
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: top level managers don't want to get involved in developing acts.

1378
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:04,719
Speaker 1: Why was he so eager?

1379
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 2: I think he he and Will Hitchcock, who's our day

1380
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:17,799
Speaker 2: to day there they saw us play a couple of shows.

1381
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:23,320
Speaker 2: Our songwriting was humming at that point, you know, like

1382
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 2: we knew how to make hits and it was being

1383
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:29,639
Speaker 2: proven by everyone else that we were getting all these

1384
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 2: cuts from and and I don't know, to this day,

1385
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:38,280
Speaker 2: I don't know he still is like, I don't know

1386
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 2: if I would do that again, you know, you know,

1387
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if I you know, he's I don't

1388
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 2: know he's certainly, I don't think he certainly would do

1389
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 2: a band again. But uh it Will definitely really believed

1390
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:54,479
Speaker 2: in us too, and and he and so Will gave

1391
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 2: him a hard self for for taking us on. And

1392
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 2: I don't know why he what he saw, but it

1393
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 2: had to be the songwriting, because I mean, there's we

1394
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:06,720
Speaker 2: were you know, they took us. They were like, man,

1395
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 2: you guys sound great. You look like shit, though, so

1396
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 2: and we're like, we're broke, and they're like, okay, well

1397
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 2: go buy some here's some money, go buy some clothes

1398
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:17,960
Speaker 2: at age and them and you know, like I go

1399
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 2: buy a cool jacket or something, you know, like you

1400
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 2: look like shit. So they helped us at that department.

1401
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:28,480
Speaker 2: But I think, really honestly, it was just the songwriting,

1402
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 2: and we were definitely creating something that sounded different. You know,

1403
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if we if we knew how different

1404
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 2: it sounded. But you know, when you get five guys

1405
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 2: together and you're creating music with that chemistry, it's gonna

1406
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 2: sound different than than anything that a solo artist that's

1407
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,680
Speaker 2: using the same studio musicians as the next guy is

1408
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:58,240
Speaker 2: gonna sound like. So we certainly had a different sound

1409
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 2: that seemed attractive to it.

1410
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 1: Okay, at what point do you switch in your mind

1411
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 1: from I'm a songwriter in the background to I believe

1412
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 1: in this band in the foreground.

1413
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that took a long time because we had made

1414
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:24,560
Speaker 2: a name for ourselves as songwriters, and then all of

1415
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:26,960
Speaker 2: a sudden, it felt like we were leaving that behind.

1416
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:30,240
Speaker 2: All of a sudden there was this band thing, and

1417
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:34,040
Speaker 2: we're like, man, we gambled on ourselves already once. I

1418
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 2: don't know if we could do that again, you know.

1419
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 2: So it did become really difficult to turn the songwriter

1420
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:45,439
Speaker 2: switch off because we just weren't sure about the band.

1421
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 2: We just didn't know if that was ever going to

1422
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 2: take off. So we were still pitching all of our

1423
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,160
Speaker 2: songs to other artists, and you know, we would write

1424
01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 2: something in pitch and write something in pitch, and all

1425
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,400
Speaker 2: the songs that wound up on our albums were and

1426
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 2: you know, turned down by every other artist. The only one,

1427
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 2: the only one we never pitched at that point in

1428
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:12,679
Speaker 2: the early stages, was break up with them. We knew

1429
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 2: something was different there and something was happening, and we said, okay,

1430
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 2: don't don't pitch that song. So we started to make

1431
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 2: that turn of like, okay, we have to bet on

1432
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 2: ourselves a little bit here. But it took, I mean

1433
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:29,639
Speaker 2: probably honestly into the second album, well into the second

1434
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 2: album before we realized, Okay, I think the band thing

1435
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 2: is probably gonna stick. We need to we need to

1436
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:38,760
Speaker 2: take it a little bit more seriously.

1437
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you have these self financed records. How do you

1438
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: get a major label deal?

1439
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that was such a process. Obviously, you know,

1440
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 2: we do showcases for labels and we'd go in there

1441
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:57,720
Speaker 2: and play music and they would all turn this down

1442
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 2: because most of them did look at us as songs.

1443
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 2: They knew that they knew our background with songwriters. We

1444
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 2: were older. You know, we're in our thirties. We're going

1445
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 2: you know, you guys, and as I mentioned, we looked

1446
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:10,639
Speaker 2: like shit, and you know, we're like, man, you guys

1447
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 2: are kind of old your songwriters, it's not really for us,

1448
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:21,880
Speaker 2: you know. And we would circle up after after being

1449
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:24,240
Speaker 2: turned down, and Clint would say, you know, what do

1450
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 2: you want to do? And we'd say we were just

1451
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 2: going to keep going. Man, if they don't like us,

1452
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 2: that's fine. We're still having fun. We liked what we

1453
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:39,560
Speaker 2: were doing, so we would just keep going. And ultimately

1454
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:47,720
Speaker 2: Sony turned us down, and then we were kind of

1455
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:50,400
Speaker 2: all out of options to everyone in Nashville had turned

1456
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 2: us down, and so Dale Morris and Clint called their

1457
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:07,000
Speaker 2: friend Doug Morris in New York and Uh and Julie

1458
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:12,000
Speaker 2: Swidler in New York and said, man, we don't know

1459
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:15,400
Speaker 2: what to do. We got these guys. They're getting radio

1460
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:20,080
Speaker 2: play and nobody will take them, and we don't know

1461
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:25,240
Speaker 2: what to do. So we go to New York and

1462
01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 2: meet with Doug and Julie and and they called. They

1463
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:36,960
Speaker 2: ultimately ended up calling Nashville Sony and said, you're signing

1464
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 2: Old Minion. So so we were forced into Naxville to

1465
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 2: through New York.

1466
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 1: So you're saying, even with all that satellite radio play

1467
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 1: which turns into to restural radio play, still no one

1468
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:51,959
Speaker 1: wanted to sign.

1469
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 2: You still didn't do it.

1470
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: We were on.

1471
01:33:55,040 --> 01:34:00,280
Speaker 2: And also we had because of our connections a couple

1472
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 2: of reasons. One we had we shared a manager with

1473
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 2: Kenny Jesney, and secondly, Kenny had just recorded a song

1474
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:12,280
Speaker 2: that Brad and I had written and it was going

1475
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:16,160
Speaker 2: to be a single. So we had a Kenny Jesney

1476
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 2: connection we got and we got asked to be on

1477
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 2: his tour. So we're on a stadium tour. Was no

1478
01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:28,639
Speaker 2: record deal. So we're playing football stadiums, we're getting radio play,

1479
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 2: and they still would not sign us.

1480
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:37,040
Speaker 1: I happened to like that save it for rainy Day.

1481
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 1: But moving on from there, you now they pressed the button.

1482
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 1: You now have success. To what degree do you feel

1483
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:50,960
Speaker 1: the pressure to follow it up? And to what degree

1484
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:56,759
Speaker 1: do you still feel the pressure? I think.

1485
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 2: I think because of the way it happened and how

1486
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:05,200
Speaker 2: long it took and how much fun we were having,

1487
01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 2: we didn't feel much pressure. We felt like, you know,

1488
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:13,679
Speaker 2: it's we felt like we were in impostors for sure,

1489
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 2: and there's still an element of that that we carry

1490
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 2: with us. We don't really feel that much pressure. I think,

1491
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 2: you know, the first one, every success we had off

1492
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 2: of the first album was like, I cannot believe this

1493
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 2: has actually happened. This is amazing, and so we've always

1494
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:39,560
Speaker 2: sort of adopted that attitude of like, man, at some

1495
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,920
Speaker 2: point in time, it's this ride is going to be over,

1496
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:48,720
Speaker 2: So whether that's tomorrow or in ten years, we will

1497
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:54,679
Speaker 2: rioted man. So we definitely always just try to circle

1498
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 2: up within within ourselves and go, let's continue the only

1499
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 2: thing that got us here with writing music that we

1500
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 2: loved and producing it the way that we wanted to

1501
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:08,760
Speaker 2: produce it, and and that has served us well. So

1502
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:12,720
Speaker 2: that's ultimately what we always do. And we still know

1503
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,360
Speaker 2: at some point it's going to be over and that's fine.

1504
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you end up switching labels?

1505
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:23,920
Speaker 2: There's a couple different We've had a couple of different

1506
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:28,599
Speaker 2: little Yeah, we still have always been under Sony. It's

1507
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:32,280
Speaker 2: just whether we were RCA or Ariosto Columbia. We had

1508
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:39,280
Speaker 2: you know, some we had our first staff at at RCA.

1509
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:45,080
Speaker 2: Our radio staff was was really close to us. We

1510
01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 2: love them all. And then you know that the music

1511
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 2: business happens and people go different places and new people

1512
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 2: come in and the relationships aren't the same. So you know,

1513
01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:01,200
Speaker 2: there's COVID really then cod it comes into the picture,

1514
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 2: and we had had you know, one Man band was

1515
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:07,880
Speaker 2: this huge hit and and then we tried to follow

1516
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,320
Speaker 2: it up with with a song called some People Do

1517
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 2: That that was struggling on the radio, and you know,

1518
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:19,840
Speaker 2: you start looking for reasons. I think, you know, you

1519
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 2: start calling the label going what's going on? Why is

1520
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:26,200
Speaker 2: this one not working? We just had the biggest hit,

1521
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:28,719
Speaker 2: and you get all excuses of like, well it's COVID,

1522
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:35,840
Speaker 2: people don't want to play sad songs, and ultimately the

1523
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:40,560
Speaker 2: relationship with the radio staff just didn't feel like it

1524
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:45,240
Speaker 2: was serving us as well. I think and and Are,

1525
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:51,080
Speaker 2: the label president at the time, uh called me and said,

1526
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 2: you know, what do you want to switch? And I

1527
01:37:53,640 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 2: was like, well, that seems kind of drastic. You know,

1528
01:37:57,240 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's that bad, but uh, you know,

1529
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:05,800
Speaker 2: but I was like, but that's an interesting idea. I

1530
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:07,760
Speaker 2: don't know, let me let me think about it. So

1531
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:13,600
Speaker 2: we we all talked and said, well, you know, why not,

1532
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:18,760
Speaker 2: let's if that's what he if he thinks that will help, sure,

1533
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:23,479
Speaker 2: So it really Then on top of that, a lot

1534
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:28,600
Speaker 2: of our original staff had moved over to Aristo and

1535
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:30,559
Speaker 2: so we knew we would be back with our original

1536
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 2: people again. So that was constant. We were like, well,

1537
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:36,680
Speaker 2: if we move, maybe works, maybe doesn't, but we'll have

1538
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:38,519
Speaker 2: our buddies over there again.

1539
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:41,760
Speaker 1: So that was a big reason, and then you move

1540
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:42,400
Speaker 1: on from there.

1541
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:45,960
Speaker 2: Then we move on from there, and then that's kind

1542
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:48,559
Speaker 2: of that one wasn't really that was no one's idea,

1543
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:50,400
Speaker 2: but the labels they just kind of caused and said,

1544
01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:52,000
Speaker 2: this is this is what we think we're going to

1545
01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:54,920
Speaker 2: do with you guys. We think, you know, we need

1546
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,160
Speaker 2: some we need some big fish over here. So you're

1547
01:38:58,240 --> 01:38:59,840
Speaker 2: that big fish. We want to put you over there.

1548
01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:02,599
Speaker 2: So you know, we just kind of werelong.

1549
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So at this point, you know, even in the

1550
01:39:14,200 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 1: earlier once again, this is any only, but I could

1551
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 1: see all your awards, you know, in this low case.

1552
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:27,479
Speaker 1: You know, you're a guy from Nowheresville, Virginia, not that

1553
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the people in country music come from

1554
01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 1: the metropolis necessarily, but you talk about imposter syndrome. You

1555
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:39,320
Speaker 1: go up, you get the awards whatever. I mean, Externally,

1556
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 1: it's a top level band with everybody else who continues

1557
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:43,840
Speaker 1: to have hits.

1558
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:47,639
Speaker 2: What does it feel like internally, Yeah, it doesn't feel

1559
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:51,439
Speaker 2: like that. We always feel like we're it's really I mean,

1560
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:53,880
Speaker 2: it's really just been within the past couple of years

1561
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:57,679
Speaker 2: that we've accepted that, you know, we've gone like, wow,

1562
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:02,400
Speaker 2: we really did create something pretty large here. I think

1563
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:07,599
Speaker 2: it was. I think it was really our first big

1564
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:12,679
Speaker 2: arena headlining tour. You know, when you're traveling with seven

1565
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:15,680
Speaker 2: eight buses and twelve semis and they all got your

1566
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:19,680
Speaker 2: name on them, it's pretty hard to ignore, you know,

1567
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 2: it's pretty hard to ignore that you have established a foothold,

1568
01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:31,880
Speaker 2: you know, in this business. And I think too, I

1569
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,360
Speaker 2: think we're a little bit. When you're in a band,

1570
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:36,920
Speaker 2: it isolates you a little bit. There's a lot of

1571
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 2: you know, inner artist relationships, not that we don't have them,

1572
01:40:42,240 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 2: but it's easier to work together as the solo artists.

1573
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 2: You know, they can jump in and collaborate on stuff

1574
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:52,680
Speaker 2: a little bit easier than you know, a band of

1575
01:40:52,840 --> 01:40:56,439
Speaker 2: five guys can collaborate. So we end up, you know,

1576
01:40:56,640 --> 01:41:00,320
Speaker 2: not not through any anything, but just the nature of

1577
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:07,120
Speaker 2: it being a little bit isolated from from the main group.

1578
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:11,040
Speaker 2: It's at least what it feels like sometimes. I don't

1579
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 2: think anyone views us that way other than ourselves, you know.

1580
01:41:14,760 --> 01:41:19,000
Speaker 1: Okay, some people write songs in fifteen minutes. Other people

1581
01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:24,519
Speaker 1: write songs over years, same song Leonard Cone Hallelujah. You know,

1582
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 1: Nashville writing sessions and they could be three hours one song.

1583
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:33,000
Speaker 1: Old Dominion is going to make an album? How many

1584
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:36,880
Speaker 1: songs do you write and how do you ultimately get

1585
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 1: the songs to the degree complete that you say these

1586
01:41:41,040 --> 01:41:42,280
Speaker 1: are the songs for the album.

1587
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always an interesting process. We write constantly. We

1588
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:52,760
Speaker 2: write on the road together, we write when we're home.

1589
01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:57,719
Speaker 2: So you know, over the years, we're writing hundreds of songs,

1590
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:03,200
Speaker 2: and you know, we have a pretty good idea. Uh,

1591
01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:06,120
Speaker 2: you know, we we can write good songs all day long,

1592
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:10,160
Speaker 2: but it's the great ones that we're looking for. So

1593
01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:14,519
Speaker 2: and then not only is it the great ones that

1594
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 2: you're looking for, it's the great ones that five guys

1595
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:22,880
Speaker 2: agree on. So so that really whittles some down. We

1596
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:28,200
Speaker 2: write pretty quickly, you know. We we typically complete the

1597
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 2: song in the same day, so it's usually from around

1598
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 2: eleven or ten in the morning till three in the afternoon,

1599
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:41,920
Speaker 2: we pretty much are done and then we've We've also

1600
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 2: been fortunate enough to make some albums where one complete

1601
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:48,160
Speaker 2: album and some songs on some other albums where we

1602
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:50,439
Speaker 2: just go in the studio and write them right there

1603
01:42:50,560 --> 01:42:55,559
Speaker 2: in the studio. So that was that's always an interesting

1604
01:42:55,960 --> 01:43:00,200
Speaker 2: experiment too. But it is a long process of once

1605
01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:02,000
Speaker 2: it starts, get it down to we know we're going

1606
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:05,160
Speaker 2: to go start cutting, Then the text messages start flying

1607
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:07,280
Speaker 2: and everybody starts throwing out songs. What about this? What

1608
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:11,320
Speaker 2: about this? What about this? There's usually probably two or

1609
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:16,760
Speaker 2: three that everyone immediately knows that on that one's one

1610
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:21,280
Speaker 2: for sure. Then it's rounding it out that becomes a conversation.

1611
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:26,839
Speaker 2: And sometimes it doesn't happen until you're in the studio

1612
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:29,120
Speaker 2: that moment, you know, where we're like, what are we

1613
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 2: going to do next? And then we pull up a

1614
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:32,640
Speaker 2: list of songs that we think we might want to do,

1615
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:35,880
Speaker 2: and then somebody might go, oh, I just remembered this one,

1616
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:39,519
Speaker 2: and you'll play it, and everyone goes, yeah, let's try

1617
01:43:39,640 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 2: that one. So it does become it's a little bit

1618
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:43,200
Speaker 2: of a fluid process.

1619
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:46,599
Speaker 1: How do you end up splitting the songwriting credits.

1620
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 2: It's just because of the nature of our of how

1621
01:43:53,439 --> 01:43:56,720
Speaker 2: we got here, because we all moved here, or at

1622
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:58,680
Speaker 2: least three of us moved here to be songwriters, and

1623
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:03,960
Speaker 2: we established ourselves as songwriters with publishing deals first. That's

1624
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:08,280
Speaker 2: just the way it's stayed. Whoever wrote the song gets

1625
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:11,680
Speaker 2: the songwriting credit. There are bands I know that just

1626
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:16,200
Speaker 2: split everything, but we never have really done that. It's

1627
01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 2: always just been if you wrote the song, you get

1628
01:44:19,080 --> 01:44:19,439
Speaker 2: the credit.

1629
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:25,200
Speaker 1: Okay, five guys in a bus in the van. You know.

1630
01:44:25,960 --> 01:44:28,760
Speaker 1: Legendarily there are band members who heed each other. How

1631
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 1: do you keep it even?

1632
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, we don't eat each other. We actually get

1633
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:37,400
Speaker 2: along quite well. It's it's quite a funny bus to

1634
01:44:37,439 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 2: be on. There's lots and lots of joking and laughing.

1635
01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:44,800
Speaker 2: And again, I think a good proportion of it comes

1636
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:47,240
Speaker 2: from our age. You know, this all happened at a

1637
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:53,720
Speaker 2: at an age where were drawn to conflict. You know,

1638
01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:57,599
Speaker 2: we all know we're all after the same thing. It's

1639
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:00,920
Speaker 2: not to say that we that that we don't have conflicts.

1640
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:04,200
Speaker 2: We certainly do. But it's much like a family, you know.

1641
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:06,960
Speaker 2: It's it's like when your family comes to visit and

1642
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:08,760
Speaker 2: you love them so much you also want to kill

1643
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:11,240
Speaker 2: them sometimes, but when they leave, you know you're sad

1644
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:16,120
Speaker 2: they're gone, and we get along quite well. It's a

1645
01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:20,320
Speaker 2: pretty it's a pretty spectacular thing that we've been able

1646
01:45:20,360 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 2: to spend that time, that much time on a bus together.

1647
01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:26,200
Speaker 2: You know, we still are all on the same bus Okay, let's.

1648
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:30,640
Speaker 1: Go back specifically to your songwriting for higher era. A

1649
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 1: lot of people look at country radio and where these

1650
01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 1: songs were hits and say, it's very cynical. To what

1651
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:43,160
Speaker 1: degree are you sitting there writing songs and say, oh,

1652
01:45:43,240 --> 01:45:46,200
Speaker 1: I have to mention a truck, I have to mention church,

1653
01:45:46,360 --> 01:45:49,240
Speaker 1: I have to mention kids. Is that in your mind

1654
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:49,639
Speaker 1: at all?

1655
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:54,200
Speaker 2: No, that's not in my mind at all. I'm you know,

1656
01:45:54,439 --> 01:45:57,320
Speaker 2: if it calls for a truck, then okay. But I think,

1657
01:45:57,360 --> 01:46:00,960
Speaker 2: and maybe I've only written one or two songs will

1658
01:46:01,080 --> 01:46:04,519
Speaker 2: drug in it, and if anything, I try to avoid it.

1659
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:10,320
Speaker 2: I try to I try to personally find the weirdest

1660
01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:13,560
Speaker 2: angle I possibly can and make it palatable.

1661
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:14,280
Speaker 1: You know.

1662
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:19,760
Speaker 2: That's the challenge for me, is that you're only in

1663
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 2: any songwriting, whether it be for country radio or or

1664
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:29,799
Speaker 2: or any any style of music, you're telling the same story.

1665
01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:33,479
Speaker 2: There's only a handful of there's only a handful of

1666
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:37,400
Speaker 2: things that people listen to songs about. It's it's just like,

1667
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:40,000
Speaker 2: you know, it's the most important things in people's life,

1668
01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:44,360
Speaker 2: so it's there. It's the human experience. So anything that

1669
01:46:44,479 --> 01:46:46,360
Speaker 2: kind of speaks to the human experience is what I

1670
01:46:46,439 --> 01:46:51,000
Speaker 2: want to write about. I don't really I don't really

1671
01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:56,400
Speaker 2: try to aim it towards towards country, you know, I

1672
01:46:56,560 --> 01:46:58,519
Speaker 2: just want to follow. I just want to follow that

1673
01:46:58,640 --> 01:46:59,840
Speaker 2: idea wherever it goes.

1674
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:06,280
Speaker 1: Okay, we live in a very divided country politically and

1675
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:10,479
Speaker 1: to great degree musically. Country music is bigger than it's

1676
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:14,840
Speaker 1: ever before. But there are people in principle will not

1677
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:18,640
Speaker 1: listen to country music. What the people who are not

1678
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:21,840
Speaker 1: fans not get about today's country music?

1679
01:47:26,040 --> 01:47:30,559
Speaker 2: You know, I don't spend that much time thinking about

1680
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:33,760
Speaker 2: that because there's plenty of music I don't like, you know,

1681
01:47:34,560 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 2: so you know, it's just not for me. And that's

1682
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:39,160
Speaker 2: kind of what I always say, you know. It's kind

1683
01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:42,800
Speaker 2: of like what if the label wasn't gonna sign us,

1684
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:45,519
Speaker 2: we weren't for them, So you know, if they don't

1685
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:47,760
Speaker 2: like it, I get it, you know. And there are

1686
01:47:47,840 --> 01:47:51,000
Speaker 2: some things about just like what you mentioned, some of

1687
01:47:51,040 --> 01:47:55,360
Speaker 2: the citical songwriting can be. It can be a bit

1688
01:47:55,439 --> 01:47:58,640
Speaker 2: formulaic sometimes, so I can kind of get why that

1689
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:03,920
Speaker 2: might turn people off. We like to pride ourselves on

1690
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:06,560
Speaker 2: being One of our favorite compliments is there's lots of

1691
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:09,320
Speaker 2: people that come up to and say we don't like country,

1692
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:12,760
Speaker 2: but we like you guys, so we're pretty good. We're

1693
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:17,759
Speaker 2: pretty happy with that. You know, country music has always

1694
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,559
Speaker 2: kind of been this melting pot, no matter how much

1695
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:23,599
Speaker 2: the traditionalists want to swear it isn't you know. At

1696
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:26,680
Speaker 2: the same time that you know, Johnny Cash and all

1697
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 2: those guys were out there, there's like disco country happening,

1698
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:35,200
Speaker 2: and you know, there's there's all kinds of different just

1699
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:37,960
Speaker 2: variations on the genre that have always been there. So

1700
01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:41,880
Speaker 2: I think if you don't like it, you don't like it,

1701
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 2: that's that's fine, Okay.

1702
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:49,480
Speaker 1: While you've been in the business, the business has changed. Traditionally,

1703
01:48:50,200 --> 01:48:53,439
Speaker 1: country music was a very controlled market. There were a

1704
01:48:53,479 --> 01:48:56,240
Speaker 1: lot of gatekeepers in Nashville, and it was all driven

1705
01:48:56,320 --> 01:49:01,280
Speaker 1: by terrestrial radio. You mentioned earlier that you originally broke

1706
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:09,080
Speaker 1: on satellite radio. In addition, although at first country fans

1707
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:15,120
Speaker 1: weren't streamers, they're big streamers now, bigger streamers than rock people.

1708
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:21,080
Speaker 1: So from your viewpoint to what degreed has changed, listen,

1709
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:24,560
Speaker 1: it's great to have a terrestrial radio hit, but is

1710
01:49:24,680 --> 01:49:26,160
Speaker 1: that the end on be all?

1711
01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:32,840
Speaker 2: It's not anymore. And we talk about this a lot

1712
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:35,680
Speaker 2: all the time, because it is important to us. We

1713
01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:38,080
Speaker 2: were one of the you know, the door was closing

1714
01:49:38,160 --> 01:49:42,720
Speaker 2: behind us when we got over the radio. Streaming was

1715
01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:46,720
Speaker 2: just starting to happen, and you know, we had a

1716
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:49,639
Speaker 2: large success because of radio, and that relationship is still

1717
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:53,479
Speaker 2: very important to us, and it still directly affects us.

1718
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:57,120
Speaker 2: But we spend a lot of time going what the

1719
01:49:57,240 --> 01:49:59,760
Speaker 2: hell is happening? You know, we spent a lot of

1720
01:49:59,800 --> 01:50:02,439
Speaker 2: time trying to figure out, you know, why a song,

1721
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:05,200
Speaker 2: why a certain song does get on the radio and

1722
01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:07,840
Speaker 2: gets up to the top of the charts, and why

1723
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:11,120
Speaker 2: a certain one doesn't. And you know, sometimes they look

1724
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:14,160
Speaker 2: at the streaming numbers and that's why they play it. Well,

1725
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:16,960
Speaker 2: sometimes they do their old school kind of research and

1726
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:21,200
Speaker 2: that's why they don't play it. It's we are in

1727
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:25,439
Speaker 2: a strange spot right now trying to figure all that out.

1728
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:28,280
Speaker 2: And there's newer artists that are coming along. Some of

1729
01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:33,519
Speaker 2: them don't care about the radio and they're getting they're

1730
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:39,479
Speaker 2: getting all they need through streaming and TikTok exposure. We

1731
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:42,800
Speaker 2: just starnt that band. You know, we certainly still need

1732
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:49,600
Speaker 2: to rely on both worlds and streaming and radio, but

1733
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:52,680
Speaker 2: it certainly isn't to be all end all anymore, to what.

1734
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:58,439
Speaker 1: Degree are you in demand on social media? TikTok, Instagram, wheels, x,

1735
01:50:58,520 --> 01:50:59,000
Speaker 1: et cetera.

1736
01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:05,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're on it a good bit. But we've luckily

1737
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:11,080
Speaker 2: that sort of exploded after we had enough money to

1738
01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:18,439
Speaker 2: pay somebody to do it for us, because there's just

1739
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:23,080
Speaker 2: no way, you know, you know, I'm forty seven years old.

1740
01:51:23,160 --> 01:51:25,240
Speaker 2: I'm not going to whip out my phone and try

1741
01:51:25,280 --> 01:51:27,200
Speaker 2: to make content. I'm just not going to do that.

1742
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:32,680
Speaker 2: So and none of us are very good at it.

1743
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:36,680
Speaker 2: So luckily we have people that help us do that,

1744
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:41,040
Speaker 2: and it's our it's our job in that respect to

1745
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:44,280
Speaker 2: keep it authentic. You know, if they come to us

1746
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:47,720
Speaker 2: and want us to do some trend, we're going to go, no,

1747
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:51,120
Speaker 2: that's no, we're not doing that. But it isn't necessary

1748
01:51:51,160 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 2: evil unfortunately, and I do feel bad. I do feel

1749
01:51:55,280 --> 01:52:00,120
Speaker 2: bad for the newer artists that can't afford someone to

1750
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:04,000
Speaker 2: help them like that, because it's a it's a whole

1751
01:52:04,040 --> 01:52:07,200
Speaker 2: puzzle in itself and a full time job in itself

1752
01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:11,519
Speaker 2: to figure out what kind of content to create, the

1753
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:17,280
Speaker 2: timing of the posting, how to post it when they

1754
01:52:17,320 --> 01:52:20,200
Speaker 2: should really just be con you know, concerned with creating

1755
01:52:20,240 --> 01:52:23,560
Speaker 2: good music, but now they have to think about what

1756
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:27,439
Speaker 2: it looks like and what fifteen seconds to post to

1757
01:52:27,479 --> 01:52:31,320
Speaker 2: grab as much engagement as possible in order to get there,

1758
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:35,080
Speaker 2: you know, their likes or hits or streams.

1759
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:41,240
Speaker 1: To what degree is the country music world in your

1760
01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:44,479
Speaker 1: audience red as opposed to blue?

1761
01:52:46,840 --> 01:53:01,439
Speaker 2: It's a good question. I think our audience probably leans

1762
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:08,400
Speaker 2: more blue, but I don't really know. You know, there's

1763
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:15,639
Speaker 2: certainly the more vocal, more vocal artists are probably red.

1764
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:21,200
Speaker 2: But in our crowd, that's not that's not even in

1765
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:25,880
Speaker 2: the conversation. It's never something that we see at our shows.

1766
01:53:25,960 --> 01:53:29,680
Speaker 2: We don't see political stuff at our shows or or

1767
01:53:29,800 --> 01:53:33,679
Speaker 2: hear much of that at all. So and I don't

1768
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:37,680
Speaker 2: know if that's our fans are just the vibe that

1769
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:39,679
Speaker 2: we're trying to create in the environment that we're trying

1770
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:45,599
Speaker 2: to create, but that's never something that we ever see

1771
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:46,479
Speaker 2: in our shows.

1772
01:53:47,439 --> 01:53:50,640
Speaker 1: Okay. In closing a lot of people who will be

1773
01:53:50,760 --> 01:53:54,960
Speaker 1: listening to this are not familiar with Old Dominion's music.

1774
01:53:56,600 --> 01:54:00,559
Speaker 1: So you don't have to because you're all idiots. Star

1775
01:54:00,680 --> 01:54:03,799
Speaker 1: of the bands well established, But if someone is interested

1776
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:07,800
Speaker 1: in checking you out, what is Old Dominion selling and

1777
01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:09,280
Speaker 1: where should they start.

1778
01:54:12,760 --> 01:54:17,880
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, we're selling. We're trying to sell positivity

1779
01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:29,160
Speaker 2: and relatability and trying to bring some some levity into

1780
01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:32,560
Speaker 2: people's lives. With our shows especially, we're trying to leave

1781
01:54:32,640 --> 01:54:36,840
Speaker 2: people feeling better when they walk out of the building

1782
01:54:37,160 --> 01:54:40,080
Speaker 2: than they did when they came in. It's our goal

1783
01:54:40,240 --> 01:54:43,520
Speaker 2: to give people a break. There's enough crazy shit out there,

1784
01:54:43,640 --> 01:54:47,320
Speaker 2: so you know, we're trying to just put some smiles

1785
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:51,920
Speaker 2: on faces. Not to say we don't have sad songs.

1786
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:55,920
Speaker 2: We certainly do, but you need those. So we're just

1787
01:54:56,040 --> 01:55:00,560
Speaker 2: trying to create something that speaks to as many people

1788
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:07,880
Speaker 2: as possible about their life and about the simple, simple

1789
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:10,600
Speaker 2: aspects of it, whether that be their relationship or their

1790
01:55:10,680 --> 01:55:15,200
Speaker 2: job or whatever. We just want to We just want

1791
01:55:15,240 --> 01:55:19,960
Speaker 2: to be a nice accent or a nice little addition

1792
01:55:20,200 --> 01:55:23,480
Speaker 2: to their life, whether that be in celebration or in sorrow.

1793
01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:27,400
Speaker 2: We want to be there for those occasions.

1794
01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:31,280
Speaker 1: Well, Matthew, I want to thank you for being so

1795
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 1: open and honest. Really a lot of people are guarded.

1796
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:37,360
Speaker 1: You're laying it all out there. You've had a ton

1797
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:42,000
Speaker 1: of success. I wish you more success, and I want

1798
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:43,680
Speaker 1: to thank you for taking this time.

1799
01:55:43,560 --> 01:55:48,600
Speaker 2: With my bidding. Yeah, absolutely, thank you Until next time.

1800
01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:50,600
Speaker 1: This is Bob left six