WEBVTT - Julie Demarest 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.680 My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:08.799 is joy. I talked to interesting people about what brings 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:16.040 them happiness. Meet Julie Demarist. Julie is an interesting person. 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:21.880 She's worked with disadvantaged, mentally ill, homeless and marginalized people 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:26.720 for a long time. She's a social worker, but has 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:34.360 a very interesting story to tell. Let's start it when 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:40.360 you stopped doing right well? When you when you stepped 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.479 away from working in the do we what do we 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:46.920 call it? What do we describe it as social services? 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:47.440 Do we call it? 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.000 There's a social work. So I just say I was 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.040 a social worker to make it easy for people. 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.080 All right, So you like to make things easy for people. 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.040 So you stopped doing it last year because of the 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.000 machety attack. 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.120 So I was already very very burnt out, and I 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.040 had put myself through massage school two years earlier because 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.039 I knew I needed like a long term out. I 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.560 didn't think I would quit when I did. But the 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.440 nonprofit I also worked for screwed me over pretty hard 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.160 as well at the same time as the machete attack, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.520 and the executive leadership handled it poorly. Like the machete attack, happened. 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:24.920 They called me and I had to go in and 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:26.160 handle everything. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.120 Talk to me about the machete of attack briefly, just 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.240 just because it's such a dramatic sounding thing. 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:33.280 I know, I feel like I talked sometimes about my 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:34.679 jobs and I'm like, oh, yeah, you know. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.319 Yeah, Well to those of us who have been lucky 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.200 enough to avoid machete attacks so far, it's kind of 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.120 so talk to me a little bit about what happened, 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:44.280 and then I want to talk to you a little 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.480 bit about barn out, and then we'll go back and 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.520 we'll kind of look at your journey through that through 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:51.040 this time. 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.600 So we I used to oversee a drop in center 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:54.920 in Auberdy, New York. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:56.760 So that's homeless people dropping. 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.000 Yes, well the drop in center, anybody could come. We 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:00.960 would ask no question. So if you just needed to 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.280 stretch your budget, like if you were on you know, 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.120 assistance or anything like that. We had free laundry, We 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.560 had free showers, We served two hot meals a day, 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.720 run your kids. We had mailboxes because if you're homeless, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:13.079 you don't have an address, but you need to get 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.960 your paperwork. We just wanted the community to be able 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.960 to kind of utilize this building and who finances this 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.079 is this a So the state in the county would 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.520 not touch that program because it was so low barrier, right, 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.760 So that was all funded through in kind like donations 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:30.359 and grants. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.280 Okay, so what happens with did you have someone who 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:36.640 came in with a machete attacked the colleague of viewers 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:37.799 or yeah, So he was. 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:39.640 A client that we've known very well. I've known him 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.360 for years the whole time I worked there, very mentally ill, 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.520 so I can see both sides of what kind of happened. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.639 And he was just having a not good mental health day. 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.320 He had a machete in his locker, but we didn't 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:56.480 know about so the manager there had he'd had an altercation, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.160 just like a verbal altercation. So they kind of told him, 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.600 why don't you take the day, you know, taken food 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.079 to go and just call it in and we'll try 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:04.919 again tomorrow. And he said, well, I want to get 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:06.840 some stuff out of my locker, and that's when he 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.160 pulled out the machete and went to go attack a 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.560 different staff member. Another guy stepped in the way and 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.480 almost lost both his hands and his foot. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.160 So it was dramatic and it was bloody, and it 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.760 was violent and scary, and you were right there when 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:21.160 it happened. 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.800 I wasn't there when it happened. The executive director called 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.600 me afterwards and I had to have all the staff leave. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:27.600 I stayed with the police. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.400 I brought the crime scene cleaners in the next day, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:31.320 stuff like that. 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.560 And that was you said, Okay, I'm done. Now this 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.680 is it, this is the this is the final stroke. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:37.840 And it was a little like ironic because when I 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:39.800 was nineteen and my very first shelter, a girl pulled 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:40.520 machety on me. 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:41.760 So I was like, all right, full sech, all. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.360 Right, so okay, so it has a dramatic So let's 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.800 go back to them. And you're nineteen. The more you're 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:52.760 striking looking person. You have a lot of tattoos. You 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.920 clearly have made a journey in your life. You made 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.280 some decisions, like I have tattoos. I made decisions to 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.680 get them. There reasons I have. So you have this 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:09.840 appearance and you have this story, So can you talk 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.240 to me a little bit about what gets you to 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.400 your nineteen years old and you decide I want to 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:16.800 do this, So. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.040 I don't even really know my childhood and my teens, 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.000 have you know, some nice childhood trauma thrown in there? 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.880 And I think so when I was like going to college, 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:27.760 I had no idea what I wanted to do, just 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:29.839 kind of went to a community college for liberal arts 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.479 and I ended up taking a juvenile delinquency class and 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:34.880 there were a couple women in there. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.719 So that's when you study juvenile delinquents then that Yeah. 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:39.920 They probably renamed it by no es. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:40.359 I feel like. 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:43.360 It's probably not PC anymore. 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.200 But two of the women in the class were human 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.520 service majors, and so I got to talking to them 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.279 and I was like, what is that? And I think 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.279 given the childhood that I had, you know, there was 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.279 you know, addiction and different traumas in there. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.920 So did you think I was your parents were addicts 0:04:58.360 --> 0:04:59.360 or right? Okay? 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:03.400 I I think I knew that, like I knew that life. 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.040 I knew how to handle that life. I knew how 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.200 to handle I was more comfortable in chaos. This is 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.159 before I actually knew all this, you know, like subconsciously. Yeah, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:12.680 So I was like more comfortable in chaos. I was 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.839 more comfortable focusing on other people to take care of them, right, 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.159 And so I think that's why I was so drawn 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.240 to human services. I didn't know at that time I 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.400 wanted to do homeless services. It wasn't until that internship 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:25.800 that was randomly picked for me. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.560 I think that that's interesting that you said you were 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.640 more comfortable in chaos, because I very much identified with that. 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.599 I remember going to a twelve step meeting in Caribbean 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:40.960 Island once years ago and a fight broke out during 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.400 the meeting and people were yelling and screaming at each other, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.520 and I remember thinking at the time I should not 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.880 feel as comfortable as I do here. Yeah, it's a 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:51.600 strange thing that. 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.800 Yeah, like I've broken up grown men with knives fighting, 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.000 but like I'm nervous to come to this. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.760 Like it's that's interesting because this is I mean, you're 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:04.560 totally safe here night. Ye, but maybe that maybe it 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.080 doesn't feel that way. I don't know. I mean it 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:07.400 is because we're talking about you. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:08.599 Yeah, that makes me comfort. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.120 Yeah, that's kind of interesting because you don't get to 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.120 control the narrative, you know. I mean it's like I 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.279 made a decision to stand up on stage and I 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:23.560 do stand up comedy, and people talk about how nervous 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:27.040 it would make them to be public speaking. I'm like, no, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.559 I would totally sleep on a stage if I could. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.640 I get it. You know. It's so I understand the 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.960 idea of being comfortable in chaos and coming from a 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:40.839 chaotic childhood. So did you ever get attracted to that 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:42.840 kind of thing yourself? I became very you know, I 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.720 was hoping. I was always drunk for years. 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.919 I drink a lot right up to my mid thirties. 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.040 And did you did you feel like it was an 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.760 addiction iss for you? Was it a coping mechanism for you? 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.680 Or so looking back, it was definitely coping. Like I 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.480 would have a quote unquote normal day, you know, at 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.719 work doing Narcan on people, suicide attempts and just the regular, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.000 the regular, and then I would just be like, man, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:08.479 I can't wait to go have a drink later with 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.240 my friends, and I would. I was more of a 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.840 binge drinker, like I wouldn't drink like every day, so 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.000 to speak. But when I would go out, I love whiskey, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:17.960 and I would just pound my whiskey. 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:22.040 I understand the love of whiskey. I also, unfortunately whiskey 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:23.080 hates my guts. 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.960 I decided in my forties I'm done with whiskey. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.600 Right, Okay? Can I just as a sidebar, I asked 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:30.600 you what whiskey you drink? 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:31.960 I'm a Jamison girl. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.360 Okay, I understand that's fine. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.280 If I want to be fancy, I do kill bagging. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.000 Okay. I feel you missed out because the whiskey I 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.200 always like most was a whiskey hold Highland Park. Did 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:42.720 you ever have that? 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:43.360 I don't think so. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.960 It's an Orkney whiskey, okay. So it's from the northern night, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.200 the islands off the north coast of Scotland. It's very smooth. 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.960 I mean, I still I'll have a little here and there. 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.040 I'm not I used to literally have a glass because 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:56.800 I love to drink it. 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:57.240 Right. 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.800 And then in my town where I'm from, an Albany, 0:07:59.920 --> 0:08:02.000 like we say high with shots, we say by with shots. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.160 We like shots in between everything. So I would just 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.240 chase whiskey with whiskey, and we're not going to do that. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:11.360 Right, Okay, that's fair enough. No, I'm self. So you're 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.720 nineteen years old and you start getting interested in because 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.200 you've had a life which so far childhood, which has 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.760 been chaos, has been involved, right, and you've been around 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:28.120 the unpredictable nature of addicted people, so you get interested 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.960 in being around it professionally. Yeah, you stayed on at 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.040 college and you did your masters in So. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.080 I never got my master's. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.760 At twenty three, I was promoted to a manager, So 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.280 I just rode the management route right up to a director. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.360 So what happens when you become a manager of something 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:44.280 like that? Then what do you do? 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:46.599 I'm in charge of everything in the staff. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:48.920 Right, So you're dealing you know, it's not only ah, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.760 it's not only hr dealing with people who are but 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.839 you're also dealing with unpredictable, scary Yeah. Who are the 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:56.000 easier people to deal with? 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:57.320 The clients? 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.320 Clients? Is that what we call? 0:08:59.600 --> 0:08:59.840 Yeah? 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.880 Clients? Okay, yeah, so clients are staff. Who's the easiest 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:04.959 to deal with clients? 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.960 Oh my god? I hate managing people. I hate it, 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.240 Like you're just like managing personalities. Like right before I quit, 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:13.880 I was a director and I was overseeing this like 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.560 sixty year old man that was just so set in 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.760 his and he would just drive me up a wall. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.520 Yeah, I just I hate managing personalities. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.240 Just go and do your job, do a good job, 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.600 and like that's drama. 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.520 I know, but I think that that's that's quite interesting 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.800 because you're dealing with people who are by the very 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.960 nature they're a lot of them are mentally ill. Right, yep, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.280 they could be dangerous. They could, but you find that 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:45.199 easier to deal with than the interaction with supposed normal 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:46.439 I'm also. 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:50.720 Not the most professional in my manner and speaking, so 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.200 that professionalism, to me is a little silly sometimes, So 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.200 I would cross the line a little bit sometimes, like 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:57.839 the way I would speak to staff and just be like, 0:09:57.920 --> 0:09:59.280 let's just be real like this, Like when I had 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.720 to fire people in stuff, like I was just like, listen, 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.480 you did this. This is what it's that I'm the consequence, like, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:06.760 just stop lying to me, dude. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.480 Won't get you fired. If you're working in a drop 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:10.120 and shower. 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:15.120 Sleeping with clients, doing drugs with clients, and then just 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.240 your basic like absenteeism calling out. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:18.800 Is there a lot of that kind of thing? Is 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:20.959 there a lot of like crossover. 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.840 Like people, Yes, a lot, especially with like direct care, 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.240 like when you're working the frontlines in the shelter and stuff. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.960 We liked to hire people that have lived experience. 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.679 So a lot of the people are former clients, if 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.280 you like, yeah, so, how do you transition someone from 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.480 a client and someone who's working for you? How does that? 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.080 How do they need a lot of training? 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.520 And I think that's where quite a few of the 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.839 agencies I worked for lacked that They kind of had 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.360 this expectation of the staff to just be like, well, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.800 they have lived experience, they'll get it, and it's like, no, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.040 they still need to work on boundaries. And the boundary 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:55.000 piece wasn't really there. 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.280 What do you say, because you've worked in Albany and 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.719 then you worked you worked in the South, you work 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:01.480 in South Carolina. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.440 Yeah, but nobody would hire me because I quote unquote 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.160 ruined God's temple with my tattoos. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:06.600 Literally, two jobs turn me down? 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.839 Really because you ruined God's temple with your tattoos? 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:10.319 Yeah? 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:10.760 Wow. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.040 So I got hired at a in patient drug and 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.199 alcohol rehab, which was ironic because I was twenty four 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.040 or five alcohol Yeah. 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:20.319 I was like, oh my. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.920 God, what did you ever like when you were dealing 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.400 without inpatient alcoholics where you're like, this is kind of 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.719 I feel like this is getting a little close to Yeah. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:30.199 I didn't care. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.160 I didn't care for addiction, just specifically I didn't like 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:39.240 that setting. I'm also I'm a harm reduction type of person, so, 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.520 like so harm reduction is kind of the new quote 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.320 unquote thing. So instead of cold turkey, which a lot 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.199 of people can't and then they fail. They try to 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:48.960 do cold turkey, they fail, so then they just like 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.679 you know, go all in, right, So harm reduction, Like 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.960 if my client smokes crack and he comes to me 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:56.880 and he says, I only smoke crack three times today, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.160 not five, that's awesome. Let's celebrate that, Like do you 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.199 sing and like, so you used to smoke crack and 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.199 you're only smoking weed. That's awesome. Let's like focus on that. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.280 And it works for a lot of people because then 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.360 there's not the expectation that if you slip up, yeah 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:12.280 you fucked it all up. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:14.559 Yeah. It's funny though, because. 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.160 Some people need cold turkey. My ex stepmother needed just 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:19.840 you don't touch alcohol. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.040 Yeah, that's that's my story for sure. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.680 I mean, I some people need that. 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:25.640 I used to love saying that people when I was 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.920 lying to people saying that was getting sober and I wasn't. Yeah, 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.800 I would say, yeah, they told me that I need 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.640 to taper off. Yes, they need to taper off. But 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.640 I think that, you know, in the treatment of addiction. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.839 I mean, I'm no way, I'm the only I'm only 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.800 an expert in my own, no anyone else's. I'm not. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.800 I'm not involved in it. But I I wonder if 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.559 you hold with the notion of the or if you've 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.480 seen it, you know, the allergic reaction notion that like 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.839 one drink is the one that gets you drunk. I 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.160 mean for me that that is a profound thing. I mean, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.160 if I have one drink, it's like it goes crazy. Yeah, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.640 it's a it's a light switch flip. Have you seen that? 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.120 Do you think that's is that something that you Oh. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.120 Absolutely, I've seen that. I think too for me working 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.000 with this client tele with addiction, like I'd probably be 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.160 using something too if I'm sleeping on the streets and 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.319 the things that are happening. So like, if we can 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.360 kind of work with Okay, you're not doing fentanyl, you know, 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.079 they're just doing well fentanyl. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.560 It seems to me that people doing fenyl just die. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.959 I mean it felt weirdly. You can build a tolerance. 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.920 I had many clients that just that I had no 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.320 idea that no, yeah, it's wild. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.760 So you didn't mention it there, but if they were 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:43.960 living on the streets, or if you were living on 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:45.280 the streets, you would do it as well. When I 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.080 get that, yeah, it's a kind of chicken in an 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.960 egg thing for me. Like, what do you think comes first? 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:52.760 Or is it in a case by case basis? Do 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.720 you start doing drugs and you end up on the street, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.200 or you're on the street and you end up doing drugs. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.520 So the childhood comes first. I would say ninety eight 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:05.959 percent my clients have extreme trauma in their childhoods or well, 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.000 which is still trauma, but like your parents used you 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.920 were in a crappy upbringing, and like I, ninety eight 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:17.000 percent of my clients had just horrific, horrific like childhoods 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.520 that just kind of led them, you know, in a direction. 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.440 How do you get that information about your clients when 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.400 you're dealing with them. Does it come out naturally in 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:25.280 conversation you? 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.720 Yeah, especially when I was just a caseworker, like when 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.440 I was a director and things of that nature. I 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.240 didn't always have a caseload, right, but when I was 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.240 a caseworker and things like we'd have to talk about 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.880 those things to kind of focus on a right if 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.640 you want housing, like, these are the things we have 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.840 to work on. So we'd work on like daily living skills, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.080 symptom management, substance abuse services and kind of link them 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.840 to different providers and things. But we'd have to talk 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.520 through like, you know, what's your history? 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:50.200 How'd we get here? 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.400 Did you find that difficult to deal with when people 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:55.720 were telling you stuff that was. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.640 Clearly I didn't think I did? 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.600 And then I learned about secondary PTSD and how just 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.720 listening to those things over and over and over again, 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.000 Like there's no way it doesn't have an impact on 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.520 the person that you might not be living it, but 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:12.880 you're the one that has to sit with the person 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.160 who did and hear those things over and over again. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.320 I think that that makes sense to me, the idea 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.600 of that. I mean, but if you're taking that, and 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.640 I'm kind of interested in how you survived that because 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:26.760 you're still like if I'm thinking, like you doing this, 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.080 if you o caase you're still a young woman and 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.920 you've had a pretty hard time yourself coming up, So 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.000 how do you cope? 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.640 So, I mean, for my twenties and stuff, I partied 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.640 a lot, right that was kind of my outlet. It 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:45.840 was hard for me, like I have I would have 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.720 a guilty conscience knowing how some people live and how 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.880 my clients were living. If I traveled or went somewhere 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.240 nice or did something nice for myself, I just kind 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.440 of always had this weird like even now we're t 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:57.280 I have guilt that. 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.200 I stopped right, so don't deserve ability. 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.240 Yeah, Like, I just like it's still happening. I think 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:07.120 Tomas knows this story. But twice I have just like 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.680 burst out crying, blackout, drunk that I've not saved all 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:11.600 the homeless people. 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.640 Yeah, like, I just it's it. 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.360 I don't understand our society how we just can look, 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.640 especially La. Like when people are in LA, they're shocked about, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.880 oh my god, there's homeless people ever And I'm like, yes, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.040 like this is kind of the epicenter, and but nobody 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.280 really does anything. And I don't like it's a weird 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.960 collective just acceptance that that's just well, let's. 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.160 Talk about that. Let's talk about LA, because that's kind 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.960 of what led us to this conversation. Anyway, I lived 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:42.120 in LA for twenty three years, and the time that 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.280 I lived there, homelessness went from being something that I 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.360 didn't see often. It was definitely that oh yeah, I mean, 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:54.200 but it was I understood that schedule was downtown. Yeah, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.000 and people you know, talked about I didn't go there. 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.120 I didn't see it. It's seems to me that Skiedrow 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:06.040 has exploded all over Los Angeles. The town itself, skid. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:07.840 Row has a mayor and they have like rules. 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.159 That's kind of that's kind of interesting, but that fascinates 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.080 me because this is clearly people who are outsider society 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.760 and yet they're looking for structure. Yeah, do they have 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.320 like a hierarchy? Is there a way of skid. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.359 Row has a little bit of it. One that sticks 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:27.240 out to me is on. 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.040 A wahu, there's actually yeah, right, there's so much homelessness. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.840 There's actually on so if you are in native to Hawaii, mm, 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.360 they cannot remove you from any beach okay. So that's 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.359 why you'll see like a lot of encampments on beaches 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.840 in Hawaii. And there's actually like a little town that 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.879 homeless people put together. There's like little roads you can't 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.560 use in town. People that have jobs and kids and 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.800 everything that just can't afford to live. And so skid 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.760 row is kind of its own chaos. But there are 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:58.840 like the people that have been there a long time 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.280 and this is my spot and you don't go here, 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.760 and this person is that person, Like there is a 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.080 little bit, but the use is the drug use is 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.040 so active there that it's just kind of a free 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:08.320 for all. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.760