WEBVTT - Green New Deal--Normalizing Socialism.  Lanhee Chen Talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>com slash doing our part, Tom, Yeah, I know it's

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<v Speaker 1>tough to keep your chin up, isn't it that Jimmy

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<v Speaker 1>Kimmel joke that we played on the show in which

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<v Speaker 1>the audience people in America have no concept the difference

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<v Speaker 1>between their taxes going up or down or their refund

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<v Speaker 1>going up or down. It's just dis and hard. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>democracy won't work. No, No, it's doomed. It's doomed. Sooner

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<v Speaker 1>you accept that this is are you're gonna have a

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<v Speaker 1>happy life. Well, let's prolong your suffering for just a

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<v Speaker 1>moment or two about trying to make a little sense

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<v Speaker 1>of the world with Lanha Chen he Is David and

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<v Speaker 1>Diane Steffy, research fellow with the Hoover Institution director of

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<v Speaker 1>Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford and Ladies and Gentlemen, the

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<v Speaker 1>host of the podcast Crossing Lines with Lanha Chen. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>have a link so you can find that easily. I

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<v Speaker 1>have a feeling that's really, really good, Loni. How are you, sir?

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, good morning, happy, happy rainy Wednesday. Happy twenty

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<v Speaker 1>two trillion dollar budget that day as well. So listen,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't we start with how about four words? Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>Green New Deal, don't so how long do we have?

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<v Speaker 1>Where would you like to start? You know, here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I tell people that they should just go and read

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<v Speaker 1>the Green New Deal because there's all this uh ankst

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<v Speaker 1>on the left up it's being this characterized that the

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<v Speaker 1>conservatives are out to demonize this thing. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I just went and they said go and read it,

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<v Speaker 1>so I did that. I went and read it, and

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<v Speaker 1>what I discovered, apparently is that we should not be

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<v Speaker 1>flying from Hawaii to California anymore. We should all get

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<v Speaker 1>in votes. And by the way, those boats can't give off,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, can't have any carbon footprints. So I'm talking

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<v Speaker 1>about canoes. So we have to canoe our way from

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<v Speaker 1>Honolulu to San Francisco. Now that is the vision of

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<v Speaker 1>the Green New Deal, because they don't want to have

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<v Speaker 1>any airplanes anymore. And by the way, they don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to have any cars any any regular gas uh consuming cars.

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<v Speaker 1>So everyone needs to have an electric vehicle. And oh,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, as if that weren't enough, we need

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<v Speaker 1>medicare for all too. Well. Here's here's what here's what

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<v Speaker 1>we're trying to figure out. And you're the perfect person

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<v Speaker 1>to understand it because you've been in campaigns. You understand

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<v Speaker 1>the politics of it all. Is this similar to Trump

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<v Speaker 1>saying I'm gonna build a thirty football in Mexico. Is

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<v Speaker 1>gonna pay for it? I mean, just an over the top,

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<v Speaker 1>outlandish promise to to show everybody I care about this issue,

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<v Speaker 1>knowing that it will fall short of that. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>what AOC and others have done with the Green No

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<v Speaker 1>Deet New Deals. That the politics of it because nobody

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<v Speaker 1>they don't actually believe they're going to pull this stuff off.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's some percentage of them to do. Actually,

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<v Speaker 1>I think I think AOC and a few of her

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<v Speaker 1>counterparts in the far left progressive way of the Democratic

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<v Speaker 1>Party actually think they have a shot at at a

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<v Speaker 1>good chunk of this. But but for other Democrats. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>here's the thing about this. This has been embraced not

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<v Speaker 1>just by the far left. There is a tendency amongst

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<v Speaker 1>some in the mainstream media in particular to say this

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<v Speaker 1>is actually not representative of the mainstream Democratic Party. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>why is it then, that pretty much every declared candidate

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<v Speaker 1>for the presidency from the Democratic Party supports the Green

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<v Speaker 1>New Deal Corey Booker, Cambella Harris, Elizabeth Warren, uh Susan

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<v Speaker 1>Gillibrand why is it that they're all co sponsoring this thing?

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<v Speaker 1>So clearly it's got some traction. Clearly some of them

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<v Speaker 1>believe it. But even if it's just a messaging tool,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a very dangerous messaging tool because it

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<v Speaker 1>allows us then to normalize some of this, to normalize socialism,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just don't think we should do that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the the green parts of it are utterly fanciful. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a guy. If we could eliminate fossil fuels in

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<v Speaker 1>the internal combustion engine tomorrow, I'd be in favor of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Why the hell wouldn't I be. I mean, let's let's

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<v Speaker 1>cut down pollution as much as we can, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>utterly unrealistic. I mean wildly unrealistic. The social reordering stuff

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<v Speaker 1>of it is absolutely terrifying, as it forcefully advocates near

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<v Speaker 1>complete control of the economy, near complete confiscation of revenue

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<v Speaker 1>and redistribution of it. It's communist well, house wages, healthcare,

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<v Speaker 1>education for everyone, right, yeah, and and I mean job guarantees. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, very very strong support for unions in there

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, which you know, it's probably a controversial topic,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's something wrong with unions per se. It's just

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<v Speaker 1>they're talking about taking every workplace unionized and and some

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<v Speaker 1>of this stuff that The reason why people have a

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<v Speaker 1>difficult time with this is because, on the one hand,

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<v Speaker 1>if the goal is to address climate change, then there

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<v Speaker 1>are a set of policies that that suggests. And you

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<v Speaker 1>understand why they want to promote, for example, alternative forms

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<v Speaker 1>of energy. They want to get rid of nuclear, they

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<v Speaker 1>want to get rid of co Okay, you can understand

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<v Speaker 1>that at least on space. But then there's this total

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<v Speaker 1>almost non sequitur where they're talking about, as I said,

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<v Speaker 1>health care for all, housing for everybody, job guarantees, family

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<v Speaker 1>and medical leaf paid vacations, full retirement security, and you know, again,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the challenge here is some of this actually

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<v Speaker 1>sounds good to people. I think they started listening to

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<v Speaker 1>that ess actually not a bad idea, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's the siren song of of socialism quite Frankly. Lani

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<v Speaker 1>Chen is the director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanfords

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<v Speaker 1>podcast is Crossing Lines with Lon hie Chen. How do

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<v Speaker 1>you like um McConnell's idea of putting it up for vote,

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<v Speaker 1>to get everybody to do on the record voting for it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's genius. You know, Miss McConnell is, whatever

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<v Speaker 1>people think of it, He's a great tactician, and he

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<v Speaker 1>understands the politics of this and forcing Democrats to go

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<v Speaker 1>on the record with where they say, I mean, we

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<v Speaker 1>know where all the Republicans are. They're not going to

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<v Speaker 1>get a single Republicans vote, that's for sure. But but

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<v Speaker 1>looking and saying where do you stand? Are you really

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<v Speaker 1>in favor of this? And and they it's a text,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a legislative text. It's not a binding statute or law.

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<v Speaker 1>In the same way that Dodge Frank or Obamacare was.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a little different. That is a sense of

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<v Speaker 1>a Congress resolution. But it's going to force people to

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<v Speaker 1>take a position on it. And I think that's actually

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<v Speaker 1>really smart because then you can't have Corey book or

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<v Speaker 1>reasling out and saying, oh, not actually was I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>really for it, you know, I just said I was

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<v Speaker 1>for it, but I but I didn't mean it. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you say it was normalizing communism or normalizing socialism, socialism socialism?

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<v Speaker 1>How since you since you teach this sort of stuff, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you guys alluded to it. It's first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>it's confiscatory and redistributed. It's the notion of taking well

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<v Speaker 1>been redistributing it to equalize the distribution of wealth in

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<v Speaker 1>a forceable manner via government and coercive control. It's about

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<v Speaker 1>the government centrally planning redistribution and and and beyond that.

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<v Speaker 1>There there are also elements of socialist policy in the

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<v Speaker 1>form of central economic commands. So when you have sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a central strategy that government puts together to dictate

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<v Speaker 1>how certain parts of the economy behaves, that is socialists

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<v Speaker 1>as well. So there are many different dimensions to this,

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<v Speaker 1>and obviously we can get into what the implications of

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<v Speaker 1>it are, but Fundamentally, it's about where the locus of control.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that with the people or is it with the government.

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<v Speaker 1>Having set through thousands of hours of this in college,

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<v Speaker 1>is this going to be on the test. So so listen. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we are privileged to have people listening to the Armstrong

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<v Speaker 1>and Getty Show all over the country and UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>I frequently point out that the reason you want to

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<v Speaker 1>pay attention to Cali Unicornia, the Golden State, UM, is

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<v Speaker 1>that it is the the leader, certainly the leader in

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<v Speaker 1>America of utterly unrealistic, unicorn riding fantasy government. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>for instance, they're pushing again to have children be allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to vote in California, teenagers because you can get teenagers

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<v Speaker 1>to fall for virtually anything that makes them feel good

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<v Speaker 1>and sounds good. Yeah, that's that's what I'm in favor of.

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<v Speaker 1>And also you get a scheme going like the bullet Train, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>which you know, just the brief outlines have passed by

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<v Speaker 1>an ill advised ballot measure they said would be thirty

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<v Speaker 1>nine billion dollars if it were ever built, if it

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<v Speaker 1>were ever completed, forty years from now, it would be

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<v Speaker 1>to billion dollars. And I'll go to my grave saying,

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<v Speaker 1>and nobody would write it, and when nobody would still

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<v Speaker 1>want it um but the changing of one governor to another,

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<v Speaker 1>one man said, now this is a bad idea. And

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<v Speaker 1>after all of us, all of the citizens, all of

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<v Speaker 1>the activists, all of the court cases, all of our

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<v Speaker 1>efforts to kill it, just a new God's off And

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<v Speaker 1>now it's off. What does that say about government in America?

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<v Speaker 1>On he it scars the hell out of me. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a big challenge we have is that we

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<v Speaker 1>see this listing from side to side depending on who's

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<v Speaker 1>in power. And and by the way, there's some now

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<v Speaker 1>who say, look, Donald Trump ought to use executive action

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<v Speaker 1>to get all these things done. I completely disagree with

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<v Speaker 1>that because this notion that what was good for the

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<v Speaker 1>previous party is now good for us because we have

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<v Speaker 1>the reins of power sets a horrible precedent and and

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<v Speaker 1>it creates this this policy change that goes from administration

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<v Speaker 1>to administration. And we're talking about big, major projects. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean your point about the Tutor train, about high speed rail,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean this is a massive piece of government spending

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<v Speaker 1>and and to be able to sort of just shut

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<v Speaker 1>it off on a dime given a change in administration.

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<v Speaker 1>While I'm glad that they're shutting it off, I think suggests.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's suggests, just just a we're in a

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<v Speaker 1>horrible place when it comes to policy making. We don't

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<v Speaker 1>believe in checks and balances, We don't believe in the

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<v Speaker 1>proper roles of a legislature and a governor or a

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<v Speaker 1>Congress and a president anymore. We want instantaneous change. We

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<v Speaker 1>want someone to snap their fingers and make something happen.

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<v Speaker 1>And indeed, that's the system of policy making we have.

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<v Speaker 1>So um, you know, look, this train needs to go.

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<v Speaker 1>That Merced and Bakersfield, California are perfectly wonderful communities, but

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<v Speaker 1>those are the two terminal points of this train at

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<v Speaker 1>this point in time. And and it's it's a ridiculous thing,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm glad it's going. Those you who are in

0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.280
<v Speaker 1>the podcasts and the internet inner what do they call

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<v Speaker 1>the intellectual dark nets or whatever it's called, You've got

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<v Speaker 1>to check out Crossing Lines with long Hea Chen his podcast. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>just just before we let you go, you have one

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<v Speaker 1>more question on the Green New Deal. Is this a

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<v Speaker 1>blip one of those stories it's just a blip week long?

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<v Speaker 1>Or is this a big one. This seems like this

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<v Speaker 1>is a big one to me. I think it's a

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<v Speaker 1>big one. I think it also depends on where the

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<v Speaker 1>dialogue goes. You know, if if people on the left

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<v Speaker 1>don't keep talking about it, then then keeople on the

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<v Speaker 1>right will certainly keep talking about it. But if they

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<v Speaker 1>will have the same level of energy, my spence is

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<v Speaker 1>that this is just where the energy is at the

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<v Speaker 1>progressive left, the Green New Deal is there, Uh, is

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<v Speaker 1>there much? Then they're going to talk about it. So

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<v Speaker 1>it will be will be part of the conversation going forward. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>and and part of that that conversation. In our chat

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<v Speaker 1>about socialism, I was gonna ask, has there ever been

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<v Speaker 1>any country that on its that has had its momentum

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<v Speaker 1>toward more collectivism? Go in the other direction, realize, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we've gone too far. This isn't working. We need more

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<v Speaker 1>free markets, We need less infantilizing our citizens and citizens

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<v Speaker 1>by taking care of their every need. We need to

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<v Speaker 1>go back along the road we came from. Well, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>give you one example of China. Uh, you know, for many,

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<v Speaker 1>many years, obviously you had a a Maoist socialist communist

0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.360
<v Speaker 1>society and look at still a communist country. Don't get

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<v Speaker 1>me wrong, But in the nineteen eighties there was a

0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.360
<v Speaker 1>leader named dump shel Ping who came along and opened

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<v Speaker 1>up China and decided that what they needed was more markets,

0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.040
<v Speaker 1>free enterprise and the influence of the West. And and

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<v Speaker 1>sure enough, what happened to China's economy. It took off

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<v Speaker 1>like a rocket ship. You had a massive increased and

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<v Speaker 1>standards of living, massive increases in economic growth and prosperity,

0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.760
<v Speaker 1>and you had the creation of a middle class. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think the people the thing that people are scared

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<v Speaker 1>about in China now is the reversal of that, the

0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:15.599
<v Speaker 1>turned back towards a maliz state of socialists, uh fundamentally

0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.200
<v Speaker 1>socialist system. So China is a great example of what

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<v Speaker 1>happens when you introduce capitalist elements and capitalist of strictures

0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.920
<v Speaker 1>into what had been a socialist society. You see economic

0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.920
<v Speaker 1>growth and prosperity. Yeah, and generally when you're like Venezuela

0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 1>will soon and some of the Scandinavian countries in a

0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.640
<v Speaker 1>more peaceful way of decided a lot of their schemes

0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.280
<v Speaker 1>haven't worked, and they've re embraced the more liberty. But

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<v Speaker 1>we'll see. Lanha Chen is the host of the the podcast

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Crossing Lines of Lani Chen, director Domestic Policy Studies at

0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Stanford University and a research fellow at the Hoover Institution

0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.760
<v Speaker 1>on he always enlightening. Thanks a million, Hey, thanks guys,

0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 1>good to talk. Check out his podcast Crossing Lines with

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Lanha Chen. We want him to see the love and

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.840
<v Speaker 1>uh and like coming on the show because we really

0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.720
<v Speaker 1>like him. Stay that out loud makes us sound needy

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.280
<v Speaker 1>and well. We are needing. You're needy need good guests,

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.840
<v Speaker 1>strong and independent. I really like good guests better than

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.720
<v Speaker 1>the crappy guests. I'll name move. The crappy guests are

0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:16.720
<v Speaker 1>going up. You're listening to the Arms, Strong and Getty show.

0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.040
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<v Speaker 1>part to keep the DC area moving. Find out more

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<v Speaker 1>at Well nota dot com slash doing our part