WEBVTT - Science of It: Deadlights and Derry 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.320 Stuff to Blow Your Mind New York Comic Con Stranger Things. Yes, 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.800 it all comes together on October six, from seven pm 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.200 to eight thirty pm at Hudson Mercantile in Manhattan. If 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.160 you're in the area, join us for Stuff to Blow 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.880 Your Mind Live Stranger Science as we explore the exciting 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.799 science and tantalizing pseudo science underlying the hit Netflix show 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.799 Stranger Things. Stuff you missed in history class has a 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.360 show right after us in the same venue, so you 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.560 can really double down on your stuff. You do not 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.200 have to have a New York Comic Con badge to attend. 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.120 It is a separately ticketed event, and hey, the three 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.159 of us would love to meet you. This is the 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.000 opportunity to do it. Learn more and buy your tickets 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.360 at New York Comic Con dot com slash n y 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:51.599 C C hyphen presents Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your 0:00:51.600 --> 0:01:00.400 Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey you wasn't 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.600 Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lawn 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.120 and my name is Christian Sager, and I made a 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.600 mistake this summer. Oh yeah, I decided it would be 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.800 a good idea to reread Stephen King's It over the 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.360 course of the summer in preparation of the new film 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.080 that just came out. How's that a mistake? That's a 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.560 that's a that's a fat book. But a good one 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.800 it was, and I was very happy with having read it, 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:28.680 but obviously my nightmare quota filled up rather quickly. Uh. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.640 And there are some really disturbing stuff in that book 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.080 that uh isn't really an either film version, but they're 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.520 definitely percolating up here in the old brain noggin. Yeah, 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.759 there is quite a bit of traumatizing material in that book. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.600 It's been a long time since I've read it, but yeah, 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.480 there are certain things that that stand out to me today. Now. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.800 Of course, we had that that mini series based on 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.800 Stephen King's It Comcourage that the day before I went 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:58.520 and saw the new movie too, so I've had a 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:03.000 full IT experience this summer. Awesome. Yeah, I mean the 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.360 mini series was was was fun for the time, very flawed, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.280 but you had a wonderful performance by Tim Curry. Tim 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.240 Curry nails in them playing penny Wise, the dancing clown, 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.320 one of the many terrifying forms of this extra dimensional, 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:22.040 fear eating, child killing monstrosity. Right. Yeah, and then you 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:26.520 had what Oh, John Boy was in it. That's right, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.359 John Boy was Bill down Burrow, John Ritters in it. Uh, 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:35.280 what's his name from Night Court? Yeah, Harry Harry Anderson 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.120 plays Ritchie. But I was gonna say Richard Major from 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:43.000 the Thing isn't as Stan grown up Stan. Yeah, there's 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.680 an amazing scene in the in the old mini series 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.280 where he is a severed head inside a mini fridge 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.040 talking to everybody. It's it's played for laughs, but it's 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.840 pretty funny. And of course this year were two thousand seventeen, 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:01.040 we just had this magnificent adaptation of at least the 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.280 first half of the novel. Yeah, and and I just 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.840 saw it the other night, Sunday night actually, and I 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.560 thought it was terrific me too. I saw it as well, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:13.679 and I was grinning ear to ear because it's very 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.040 rare one that you get a good horror movie and 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.519 two that you get a good Stephen King adaptation. And 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.239 this was I just coming off the heels of the 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.959 Dark Tower movie. This was this was spectacular because that 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.799 Dark Tower movie was a little disappointing. Yeah. My only 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.680 gripe about this latest hit movie is we didn't have 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.720 a nice, cheesy Stephen King cameo. That's right. I know, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.600 I forgot about that. Yeah, he used to do all this. 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.160 Has he done those lately though he's not like stan Lee, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.320 but he used to in the eighties and the nineties. 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.280 I think he's done some for television. I thought I 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:47.920 saw something on his Twitter the other day where he's 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.520 doing Okay. Yeah, it's always fun to catch him, all right. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:55.600 So obviously we're fans of it. We're we're fans of 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.440 of both adaptations. So we thought, hey, everybody's it crazy 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.600 right now? The films just performing like gangbusters out there, 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.960 So why don't we do an episode on the science 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.200 of it? And you know why, because it's October and 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:11.960 what do we do in October and stuff to blow 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:16.320 your mind? All Halloween theme topics, That's right. So we 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.000 are this is the beginning of our bonanza for four 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:24.039 weeks of doing topics on things not not necessarily it'll 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.760 scare you, but that are related to horror or the season. Yeah, 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.160 we keep it seasonal to the point that we're actually 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:38.040 shoehorning material into September or postponing it until November, just 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.640 so we can focus on Halloween. Al Right, So in 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:42.520 this episode, We're just gonna lay out a few sort 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.480 of ground rules for everybody, so you know what we're 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.000 gonna do, what we're not going to do. First of all, 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.719 if you're wary of spoilers, we're not going to get 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.160 into like really hard spoilers. But we are going to 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:59.119 talk about characteristics of the novel of of the movie, 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.120 especially so you know, if you want to go in 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:07.320 just knowledgeless, uh, then maybe skip this episode and come back. Yeah, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.120 I mean, I would say, like if you've seen any 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.719 of our other monster science videos or episodes, like the 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.440 stuff that Robert and I have done on like zombies 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.680 or vampires, or the the science of the vampires from 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:20.920 the Strain, things like that, Like, for the most part, 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.880 we don't get into spoiler territory or deep plot details. 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.520 It's mainly about like how the monster works and then 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.040 how real life science applies to it. And likewise, we're 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:30.680 also not going to get into some of the more 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.520 esoteric stuff that is in the books but isn't necessarily 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.000 in the films. Right, right, So I want to start 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:40.840 off with a revelation. My grandfather was a clown. Good 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:42.880 for you, He was actually a doctor, but he was 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:46.960 also a clown like his thing was as a member 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.760 of the Shriners, he and a neighbor of his would 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:55.360 dress up like clowns and perform as clowns at various 0:05:55.600 --> 0:06:00.599 hospitals or children's centers and at the circule us. And 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.120 I remember as a young kid going to the circus 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.159 and seeing my grandfather, I'll clowned up horsing around down 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.840 there on the stage and entertaining people. And so I 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.200 have some sympathy for Pennywise, but I also understand what 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.800 makes Pennywise so creepy. Well, I think one thing to 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.400 keep in mind with with Pennywise is that Stephen King 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.640 wrote this book really ahead of the full blown creepy 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.240 crunk clown culture, and certainly it played a part in 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.840 developing that culture. But I don't really blame King as 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.480 much for it, because the whole gimmick here is that 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.840 this awful creature from another dimension wants to take on 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.880 a pleasing form in order to lure kids in, and 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.680 then it also like manipulates that in terrorizing them. So 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.159 it makes sense that it would pick something you know, 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.680 pure and innocent and fun, the clown, yeah, right, rather 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:58.880 than like my little pony Yeah, like, if it were 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.560 operating today, the thing is probably would not use the clown, 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.080 would probably use something like, you know, a character from 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:09.680 Dinosaur Train or something, because kids is today have been 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.280 sort of generationally poisoned against the clown. They they haven't 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:14.880 grown up in the age of the clown. They've grown 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.320 up in the age of the creepy clown. And unless 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.040 you were going out of your way to foster an 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.400 appreciation for clowns, uh, then they're probably just not gonna 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.400 have it. Yeah, it's true, and I'm sure you're aware 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.640 of this, but there's been this backlash from actual clowns 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.520 who are saying, like, this movie is going to make 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.600 it harder for me to earn a living as a clown. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.240 And it's kind of like, guys, I think it's maybe 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.480 more than the movie. I think, as Robert said, the 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.280 age of the clown is maybe coming to an end, right, Uh, 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.920 because we waged war against it and killed it. Like 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.200 there was this thing that was it was innocent and fun, 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:51.960 and as a culture we couldn't help but tear it 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.440 to pieces. And we have to address this right up 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.000 at the top. This is what we're referring to is 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.680 color phobia, which is the fear of clowns, the supposed 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:06.840 not really. Robert has covered this, uh in many venue. Uh. 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:08.880 We have a stuff to blow your mind video that's 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.480 all about this that you did, gosh four years ago maybe. Uh. 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:14.240 And then there's a blog post in our site about 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:15.800 it as well. But let's just get it out of 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.560 the way, because it's what most viewers and commentators of 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.920 it are talking about right now. Um. So, okay, the 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.800 behavior of clowns is unpredictable in their body movements are 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.840 wild and exaggerated. So obviously that's something that can kind 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.080 of freak you out right. Uh. And in fact, they 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.360 nailed that with Pennywise in the movie. I thought, like 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.520 the the way that they had his body contortant, unusual ways, 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.560 I think really worked. Well. Yeah, I mean, but it 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.800 was it was not necessarily clownish, it was exaggerated. The 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.439 point where it was it was it was grote is monstrous. Yeah. Yeah. 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.880 According though to author John G. Robertson, the term corephobia 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.040 is almost certainly a product of pop culture and the 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.920 Internet and isn't actually in any of the expected litter 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.080 narture on phobias. So this is like one of those 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.439 things that's it's great to talk about on the internet, 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.280 but it's not something that like a psychiatrist is actually 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.160 going to diagnose you with. It's probably not in the 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.680 D S M. Yeah, you know, I think by and large, yes, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.680 a child can be scared by a clown, no question. Uh. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:20.600 A grown up can have maybe even dramatic memories of clowns. 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.000 But this idea of like there's this widespread phobia of clowns, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.040 you know, I I tend to be very skeptical of that. Yeah, 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.200 and I think part of it, and you addressed this 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.320 in both of your pieces, is that for the last 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.640 couple of decades, we've had this plethora of scary clown imagery, 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.560 not just Pennywise from the book, in the mini series 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.000 and now this big movie, but you've got killer clowns 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.360 from outer Space, You've got the real life story of 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.080 John Wayne Gacy. Right, there's just all of this stuff 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:51.800 floating around that kind of makes clowns sinister. What's the 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:57.079 House of a Thousand Corpses? Right? His clowns? Yeah? Oh yeah, 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.240 he just came out with the whole clown movie, didn't he. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.240 I forgot about that. Yeah. Uh so but there is 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.040 a study. It's a two study at the University of 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.800 Sheffield that was published in Nursing Standard, and they found 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.640 that out of two hundred and fifty children, most kids 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.240 who were ages four to sixteen dislike clown imagery. Big surprise. 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.480 So what's the lesson here, Well, okay, they said, maybe 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.360 we shouldn't have clowns in hospitals anymore, especially because those 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.800 are places where kids are unsettled and scared. So if 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:26.920 my grandfather were still alive, I'd have to say to him, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.480 like me, you might want to lay off the whole 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.120 clown thing. This is why in children's hospital it's so 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.600 funny that Rob Cordrey is always in clown makeup. Yeah, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.120 well then that's that sort of adds. They don't go 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.000 straight up with the creepy clown on that show, but 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.360 they do kind of toy with it a little. Well, 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.160 he's always got he's always got clown makeup on. But 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.120 then like his um smock, I guess you would call 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.520 it is always covered with blood as if as if 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.280 he just got out of surgery. Well, so here's something 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.439 I do want to point out, and that is, Uh, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.080 first of all, I think a lot even perhaps even 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:00.480 the study. I don't have to study in front of me, 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.920 so I can't speak to it specifically. But I think 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.240 when people talk about fear of clowns, even if they're 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.600 not bringing to mind creepy clown imagery, like overtly purposefully 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.440 creepy clowns, they are bringing to mind certain clowns. They're 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:16.160 bringing to mind like a certain um, you know, archetype 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.960 of the you know, the full white makeup, red hair, 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.559 kind of a bose of the clown or a pennywise appearance. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:27.280 And there's it's not really fair to reduce all clowning 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.680 traditions to that. Like there's there's a rich tradition of 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.559 clowning that spreads across cultures. In many cases these were 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.680 these are sacred traditions, um, you know, especially when you 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.880 look to various Native American customs like the gesture of 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.559 the clown, the fool, these are culturally important figures. Also, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.960 the whole idea of like the Carnivalesque in in Europe 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.920 being sort of an active resistance the Comedia del arte, 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.160 that something along those lines, Right, there's a long history 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:57.920 behind all this. Oh yeah, and like if you go 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.480 to say a CIRCUSLA show, you'll see a lot of 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.840 a lot more modern takes on clowning. And I have 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.800 to say, as far as hospitals go, uh, my my 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.080 son was in in the children's healthcare center here in 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.679 Atlanta a few years back, and I did see some 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.679 clowns making the rounds and they did not look like 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.160 Bozo Pennywise clowns. They were they were using very light 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.440 clown makeup, they were using musical instruments, and it was 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.360 it was just kind of a delightful thing for the children. 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:31.400 So I do think that criticisms of clowns and discussions 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.360 of fear of clowns, it doesn't always take into account 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.400 the rich variety of clowning out there. Well, here's an 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.360 alternative theory, okay, And you actually presented this, but you 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.400 paired it with a nice bit of academic research. There's 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.600 a clinical psychology professor named Paul Salkov Skiss, and he 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.200 points out that children in general are far more susceptible 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:57.880 to extraordinary and unusual imagery. Right, So you then offered 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.800 this that it let's compare the clown to a shopping 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.040 mall Santa, Right, they're kind of equally terrifying and scary 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.080 to children, Like, how many times have you seen a 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.400 little kid forced to sit in Santa's lab at the mall? 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.800 It's just screaming, just absolutely upset. My nephew has done 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.280 this so far every time my sister takes him to 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.520 go see Santa. Um. So this I think speaks to 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.960 the idea right that the age of clowns is over 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.320 and is maybe just weirder to us than it used 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.920 to be, because as far as Santa's go, there's certainly 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.840 plenty of creepy Santa imagery out there, plenty of horror 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.640 films at cre that employ a killer Santa, mutant Santa, monster, Santa, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.640 you name it. Yeah, yeah, there's probably more than clowns. Actually, yeah. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.520 But it's resilient to this kind of shift because we 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.959 still culturally put a lot of value on it, and 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.280 we and we refuse to give up the wholesome vision 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.959 of Santa uh for the sake of this unwholesome with 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:01.960 the clowns. We weren't willing to main tane what was sacred. 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.120 So you want to take a break and then when 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.600 we get back, we can come back to we can 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.920 get past this clown stuff. And we can get into 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:16.400 the real nitty gritty of the science breakdown of Pennywise. Alright, 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:21.040 we're back. So what about Pennywise can't be explained by 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.480 science because, let's be honest, there's a lot of weird 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:28.240 stuff going on in these stories. Yeah, it's it's difficult 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.440 with with it because we're essentially talking about a magical 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.600 creature from outside of our world. Um, and also it 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.520 has psychic abilities that are also beyond our reality. However, 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.320 it does have to work in our world. It has 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.520 to interact with our world. It's engaging physically, into some 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:50.200 degree biologically with biological organisms. So we can derive I 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.360 think a number of biological parallels here. We can, we 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.320 can even get a little fringe at times, but I 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.880 think we just have to keep an eye out for 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.760 times when we're uh, you know, waiving the cudgel of 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.400 science after you know, imaginary monsters. Right. Yeah. I do 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.400 have to say though, after doing the research for this, 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:12.960 I was surprised at how well Stephen King's uh like 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:18.400 taxonomy of Pennywise fit into actual biological theories, to the 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.080 point that it made me wonder if he had done 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.840 like a lot of research along those lines, or if 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:27.440 it was just sort of common sense, for instance, like predators, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.200 like how how actual predators act in the wild. Well, 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.320 this is something I think about a lot when I 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.720 do you know, monster science, bounce for the week, stuff 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.280 for stuff to blow your mind, and that's that you 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.240 have these fantastic creatures and then you find all these 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.400 biological parallels. So you ask yourself, how did this happen? Yeah? 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.560 Is it in situation where somebody sat down and planned 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.920 it all out? I mean sometimes a creator is really 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:56.560 you know, clued into the scientific data out there. Other 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.920 times I think it's just this is the world we know, 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.600 This is what we assume bowle things out of, and 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.600 it matches, It ends up matching those forms in the 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.720 you know, in the same sense that one as symbols 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.960 a chimera out of existing animals. You kind of do 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.720 that on a subconscious level. But then also I think 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.200 it just comes down to the just the utter weirdness 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.760 and and the amazing nous of the natural world that 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.320 no matter how weird our imagination is, no matter just 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.600 how fantastically creative, Uh, this monster is that we dream up, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.040 the natural world is gonna have as beat. Like that's 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.880 just how weird and wonderful um our our world of 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.920 biology is. Yeah, I mean, I can't list all of 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.960 the episodes that we've done on natural organisms that are 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.240 just like utterly crazy compared to anything I've ever seen 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.360 in a horror movie. I'm talking a lot of like 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.120 the underwater creatures we've covered, like the osadax bone worm 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.320 or the hydra stuff like that. Oh yeah, And in fact, 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.400 we'll be coming back around to some marine examples that 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.479 line up with various functions, uh of of its anatomy. 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.439 But first tell me this, So it lives in a sewer? 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.119 What other what other creatures that live in a sewer? 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.440 Does it have parallels with? Well, I mean you can 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.800 look at it two different ways, right, because they are 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.239 numerous examples of troglozines. Uh. And these are you know, 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:24.080 creatures that that live underground, but they don't completely finish 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:25.879 out their life cycle there. They have to you know, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.439 come up for something in the case of of it 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.840 it comes up to eat in order to hunt at 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.480 any rate. Uh. So you have various subterranean creatures that 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.159 line up there, and indeed you have subtraining creatures that 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.120 live in a guano rich environment. Uh as with the 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.560 environments where the cave is filled with bat guano and 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.919 yet lives in a sewer. On the other hand, you 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.160 have a number of species that are very well adapted 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:55.040 to artificial human made subterranean systems, rats, fleas, and of 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.440 course mosquitoes, which we've talked about on the show here 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.600 in terms of the London mosquito, which is seems to 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.960 be diverging from the surface mosquito by virtue of its 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.399 life underground. And then coming back to that whole extreme 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.520 excrement thing as well. I mean, you have everything from 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.040 say a dung beetle to the African penguin depend on 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.240 feces for their life. So it's not something that I 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.840 think King really got into in the books or or 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.119 shows up in the movies at all. But you know, 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.080 it's not completely unrealistic to say that you would have 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.640 this strange creature that lives in such close confines with 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.639 with human excrement, human waste. Yeah, that does make sense. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.439 I'm trying to remember from all three iterations, there's no 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.199 moment where they really address that beyond just and this 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.000 is in the trailer for the new movie where they 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.360 talk about gray Water and what gray water is, and 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.280 and uh, just the idea of them trapesing around in 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.040 this dirty water throughout the entire time that they're down there. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.720 But yeah, there's no point where like, there's nothing scatological. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.399 I think it's it's a suitably foul place for a 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.200 foul creature to live. But it seems to have other 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.600 benefits to it besides what it contains. Now, all right, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.639 this maybe a spoiler, although I think like for this 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.200 the length of this story, this is just kind of basic, 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.080 uh role playing game rules of how it operates. Right. 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.719 So it's a periodic predator, right right, Uh, Yeah, one 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.200 of its most notable features is it has for starters 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.760 a ridiculously long life life span. And then as far 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.200 as this life cycle goes, it has these twenty seven 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:33.480 to thirty year hibernation periods. So it comes out, it eats, 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.440 and then it goes away for seven to thirty years 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.240 and then comes back again. And in the book, in 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.919 the show, it's been doing this since the mid eighteenth 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:47.000 century when people first started living in the dairy area. Yeah, 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.840 that's right, Like there's there's always these incidents, these horrific 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.560 incidents that precipitate it's a hunting period, right. So, like 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.280 they've got one where it's I think it's called the 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.760 Bradley Gang. They're like a bank rob regang. There's this 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.280 huge massacre with them, and then twenty seven years after that, 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.760 you've got the fire at the Black Spot where like 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.880 a lot of people died in this horrible fire. So 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.600 the thing is lengthy hibernation periods like this and not 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.760 completely out of keeping with the natural world. You have 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.560 thermophilic bacteria that may hibernate for up to a hundred 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.600 million years before they're swept from chilling depths to hot 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.720 spots of geothermic activity. And that's exactly the sort of 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.920 sleep cycle that even a you know, a billion year 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:31.119 old creature like it can probably appreciate. Now. Hibernation, of course, 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.440 is a way for an organism to ratchet down energy 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.760 expenditure and survive on energy reserves in order to survive 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:44.080 periods of otherwise lethal resource depletion or environmental change. Yeah, 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:48.679 and there's actually a pretty interesting mathematical model that we 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.359 can turn to here to try to understand that system 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.560 a little better. It's called predator prey modeling, and it's 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.840 when you take equations to show a system in place 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:00.000 between a predator species like it and a prey speech 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.200 She's like the children of dairy main uh. And this 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.280 form of math helps predict how these species will interact, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.560 especially when one is the primary food source for the other. 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.399 So the famous example that's been used in this is 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.159 a relationship between wolves and moose on Isle Royale in 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:21.080 Lake Superior. It's been studied since the nineteen fifties because 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.080 first of all, there's very little food for the wolves 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.679 to eat other than the moose on this aisle, and 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.280 second of all, the aisle itself is geographically isolated, which 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.240 limits other factors that would come into play, like, for instance, 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:37.440 hunting or migration. Now it's worth pointing out here just 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:38.879 because this this comes up a little bit here and 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.600 comes up later on. But for all intents and purposes, 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.639 it is stuck in dairy like. It does not seem 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.000 capable or willing to move to another area. It was 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.280 happy to just sit there and wait for people to 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.720 come to it. And I think this model may help 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:54.879 us figure that out a little bit. So the most 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:59.520 famous of these equations is called the Latka Voltaire system, 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:01.720 and it's aimed after the scientists who came up with it. 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.280 Latka argued that you can apply physical principles to biological systems, 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.520 and this was part of his broader work in this 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.280