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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen girl. A young

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Speaker 1: Amish girl goes missing, seemingly without a trace, after church

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Speaker 1: on a Sunday afternoon. How does this happen? Where is Linda?

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It was Father's Day and

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Speaker 1: Linda Stultzfus was on her way home from church. She

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Speaker 1: told friends she'd meet the Metta Youth meeting after she

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Speaker 1: went back to her family's Burdenhand farm to change her clothes.

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Speaker 1: Staltsfus was seen at a farm on Stumptown Road, between

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Speaker 1: the intersection of Beechdale and Gibbons Roads in burden Hand.

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Speaker 1: When Staltsfoots didn't meet her friends at the youth meeting,

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Speaker 1: they worried. Her parents later told the East Lampeter Township

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Speaker 1: Police that they looked in her room and when they

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Speaker 1: couldn't find any church clothes in a room, they knew

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Speaker 1: she'd never made it home from church. She never changed

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Speaker 1: her clothes, she never made it back to the youth meeting.

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Speaker 1: The eighteen year old Amish girl's disappearance on June twenty

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Speaker 1: first left authority scrambling for answers. The FBI, Pennsylvania State

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Speaker 1: Police have all joined the search, but still nobody knows

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Speaker 1: what happened to Linda stultsfus what happened to this teen girl?

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Speaker 1: Now you would think in the middle of Amish country

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Speaker 1: nothing could go wrong, but it did. Joining me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it

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Speaker 1: back together again. First of all, TROYE. Layton right now,

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Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, joining me out of la Karen Start,

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Speaker 1: New York psychologist. You can find her at Karen dot com.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coalcase Research Institute and forensics expert.

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Speaker 1: Special guests joining us. Karen Johnson Winer, Professor Emerita of

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Speaker 1: Anthropology at Sunny that is in New York, author of

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Speaker 1: the Lives of Amish Women. Sierra Gillespie Crime Online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. First to you, Sierra, explain to me

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Speaker 1: how in Amish Country, where typically there's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of cars, very tight knit community, no one saw what

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Speaker 1: happened to Linda. Let's start at the beginning. How what

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Speaker 1: was she last saying for sure? So, Nancy, she was

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Speaker 1: last seen for sure at church on June twenty, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: So that's Father's Day. Most of us can remember where

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Speaker 1: we were in Father's Day. So she was seen at

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Speaker 1: church in the morning, and the plan was for her

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Speaker 1: to go home. She had made a dessert that she

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Speaker 1: was planning to bring to her youth group. She was

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Speaker 1: going to change her clothes, grab that dessert, and then

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Speaker 1: head over to her youth group, which was two pm

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Speaker 1: to eleven PM. But nobody at youth group saw her,

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Speaker 1: and again her parents figure she never even came home

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Speaker 1: to change her quotes. But one thing we can say

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Speaker 1: for sure is this area bird in Hand. It's about

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Speaker 1: an hour fifteen east of Philadelphia, and it is a

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Speaker 1: large Amish Mennonite community. However, it is somewhat of like

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Speaker 1: a tourist attraction for people in the area, like if

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Speaker 1: you want to take a look at what it would

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Speaker 1: be like to live in an Amish community community, or

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Speaker 1: if you want to, I don't know, purchase whatever they're selling.

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Speaker 1: So there are vehicles that are driving through that area. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so there is a fair bit of car traffic. Because

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Speaker 1: it's really hard for me to believe she can be

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Speaker 1: abducted on foot or in a horse drawn carriage with

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Speaker 1: nobody seeing her. Where I grew up, I would say

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Speaker 1: about forty five minutes to an hour away, a huge

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Speaker 1: Mennonite community in a very rural area, some comparing to that.

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Speaker 1: Joining me a special guest, Karen Johnson Weiner, Professor Emerita Anthropology, Suny,

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Speaker 1: author of the Lives of Amish Women. Karen, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for being with us. Tell me about the

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Speaker 1: life of an Amish woman at this age, particularly eighteen. Well,

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Speaker 1: at eighteen, her her life would have revolved around whatever

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Speaker 1: work she was doing. I don't know if Linda was employed,

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Speaker 1: either with a family business or working for friends. But

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Speaker 1: on Sunday it would have been on the Sunday that

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Speaker 1: church meant it would have involved church and the youth

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Speaker 1: group that she was with, the young folk. Well, of

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Speaker 1: her social life would have been with that young folk,

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Speaker 1: So she would have been busy, she would have been

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Speaker 1: helping at home, she would have been with her friends.

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Speaker 1: How often do you see Amish teens defect leave the community? Um, Well,

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Speaker 1: that depends on the particular Amish group. Um. There's there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of diversity in the Amish world. And UM

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Speaker 1: and in some communities the rate of leaving maybe fifteen

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Speaker 1: twenty percent, and others it's it's much much lower. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's no indication that that Linda was leaving her church community. Um.

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Speaker 1: She I don't know Linda or her family, but UM,

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Speaker 1: her friends would have known. And that doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be the case. Why do you say her friends would

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Speaker 1: have known if she were leaving. Wouldn't she have kept

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Speaker 1: that a secret? Probably her friends would have known. Um,

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Speaker 1: she took nothing. She took no money. Um, it would

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Speaker 1: have been something that that those closest to her would

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Speaker 1: have suspected. U. The Lancaster Amish young people are quite

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Speaker 1: connected with each other. There's a lot of the Amish,

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Speaker 1: don't let me put it this way. Being with others

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Speaker 1: is important in the community, and so she would not

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Speaker 1: have been so isolated. People would have suspected straight out

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Speaker 1: to Sierra Gillespie, Crime Online dot Com investigator reporter way

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Speaker 1: in what do we know, if anything, about the possibility

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Speaker 1: she wanted to leave? Nancy were told that she did

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Speaker 1: not want to leave. Investigators say that they did interview

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Speaker 1: family friends. She was kind of a timid young woman.

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Speaker 1: She was happy in groups, but she wasn't like super

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Speaker 1: outspoken or anything like that, and she made no indication

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Speaker 1: to anyone that she wanted to actually read the Amish community.

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Speaker 1: Guys take a listen to this. Investigators in Lancster County

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Speaker 1: spent the day searching for a teen year old Linda

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Speaker 1: Stultspus State Polis. About six hundred trained search and rescue

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Speaker 1: volunteers focused on a two and a half square mile

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Speaker 1: area in the Welsh Mountains in East Earl Township. They

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Speaker 1: searched from seven this morning until six and this evening.

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Speaker 1: So far, Linda has not been found, but investigators say

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Speaker 1: their goal is to continue to work together with the

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Speaker 1: community to locate her. Stultspus has been missing since June

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Speaker 1: twenty first. Police believe she was abducted while walking home

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Speaker 1: from church in Burdenhead to Cheryl McCollum, director to Colcase

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Speaker 1: Research Institute, if she were abducted on the street walking

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Speaker 1: home from church to home, why are there no witnesses? Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest concerns is going to be she

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Speaker 1: obviously will not have a cell phone. She wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: a way to call for help or have us, even

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Speaker 1: through GPS, know her whereabouts. You know, in her community,

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Speaker 1: there's not going to be any cameras. There's not going

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Speaker 1: to be any surveillance near her farm or the farms

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Speaker 1: of other people in the Amish community. What we're going

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Speaker 1: to have to rely on is somebody in a typical

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Speaker 1: American family that may have a ring camera. Of course,

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Speaker 1: there are no ring cameras, there's no video surveillance. And

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Speaker 1: according to what we're learning, many people come to the

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Speaker 1: area to buy furniture, to buy vegetables and fruits, to

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Speaker 1: buy homemade jams and jellies. What do we know about

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Speaker 1: the disappearance of this teen girl? How did you just

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Speaker 1: disappear off the street? Climb stories with Nancy Grace. We

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Speaker 1: are talking about the disappearance of a precious young girl,

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Speaker 1: a teen girl lend Us Doultfus who goes missing? What

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Speaker 1: do we know? We were just listening to our friend

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Speaker 1: and Shannon a w GAL News eight. Now take to

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Speaker 1: listen to our friend Dave Mackett crime online dot Com.

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Speaker 1: When Linda Stultsfoos failed to meet her friend's bank at

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Speaker 1: church for a youth meeting, they were confused and a

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Speaker 1: bit scared. It was totally unlike Linda to not be

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Speaker 1: where she was expected. Friends and family immediately started looking

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Speaker 1: for retracing her footsteps, but no Linda. As members of

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Speaker 1: the community trying to remember every minute of the day.

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Speaker 1: Several members of the Amish community said they saw red

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Speaker 1: Kia rio passing through the area that day with someone

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Speaker 1: resembling Stults food sitting in the passenger seat. That same

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Speaker 1: red Kia rio was later spotted park next to railroad tracks.

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Speaker 1: A red Kia You know, I want to go to

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, New York Psychologists joining me from Manhattan today,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark. When someone is brought up in a very

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Speaker 1: sheltered environment, they might get into a car if somebody said, hey,

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Speaker 1: can you hop in and show me how to get

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Speaker 1: to X y Z where my children I've had it,

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Speaker 1: you know, drummed into their head day one. Don't get

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Speaker 1: into a car with anybody you don't know, no matter

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Speaker 1: how nice they may seem. And of course they're always

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Speaker 1: doing you know, those tests on a group of children,

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Speaker 1: and they still get in the car. But especially growing

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Speaker 1: up in a sheltered environment, she may think it's okay

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Speaker 1: to get in a car with someone to give them directions. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good point, Nancy, because she might

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Speaker 1: even go close to the car. It's a rural area,

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Speaker 1: it's not that developed, and she's very naive, and so

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Speaker 1: I also think there's this whole emphasis. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: helping and being cooperative toward each other. So it's a

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Speaker 1: stranger what to say. I'm totally lucky. I don't know

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Speaker 1: where I am. I don't know if she'd get in

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Speaker 1: the car, but she might come close enough to the

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Speaker 1: car for someone to grab her, frighten her, you know,

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Speaker 1: pull out a knife, a gun and say you've got

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Speaker 1: to get into the car. So I do agree that

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Speaker 1: that's a possibility. To Cheryl McCollum, called director of the

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl, what kind of a search

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Speaker 1: needed to take place as soon as it was realized

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Speaker 1: she was missing? And remember, whatever happened, if someone did

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Speaker 1: take her, they've got to jump on us, because it

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Speaker 1: was until hours later that the parents went and saw

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Speaker 1: her church clothes were still missing, so she didn't come

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Speaker 1: home and change. Nancy, I think that it's significant to

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Speaker 1: point out that when you have a missing person, the

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Speaker 1: first three hours are so critical and at that point,

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Speaker 1: to me, they should have been able to utilize drones, cars, dogs, volunteers,

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Speaker 1: you know, even on foot for certain places that needed

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Speaker 1: to happen literally as soon as possible. To Karen Johnson, Weiner,

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Speaker 1: Professor Emerita Anthropology at Sunny author of the Lives of

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Speaker 1: Amish Women. The Amish society heavily emphasize emphasizes being friends

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Speaker 1: to others. Is it conceivable to you that she would

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Speaker 1: have gotten into the car with someone trying to help them?

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Speaker 1: Not very I mean Lancaster County is I mean, they're

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Speaker 1: not isolated in their homes away from non Amish or

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Speaker 1: English as as we are called. Burnton, Lancaster County is

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Speaker 1: a center for tourism, and thousands of tourists come every year.

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Speaker 1: Now that said she would have tried to be helpful,

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Speaker 1: It's also a very confusing place, and I'm sure tourists

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Speaker 1: get lost all the time, and so it wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been an odd thing for someone to perhaps ask her

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Speaker 1: for help. But she would have known better than to

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Speaker 1: get in someone's car. Even the most conservative, isolated Amish

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Speaker 1: teach their children not to do that. So it's very

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Speaker 1: hard for me to think that she would get in

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Speaker 1: the car of someone she didn't know, had never met,

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Speaker 1: willingly to go someway and point it out, especially walking

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Speaker 1: along the road, when she could have just said go

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Speaker 1: three miles that way in turn right, So they're not

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Speaker 1: so isolated as to be completely naive about the world,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, they learned that the world is a

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Speaker 1: dangerous place, the world outside their community. You know, you

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Speaker 1: dedicated your book to the lives of Amish women. Yes,

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Speaker 1: let me ask you this, Karen Johnson Weiner. Are marriages

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Speaker 1: arranged wouldin the Amish community? No, absolutely not. Young people

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Speaker 1: meet each other in the context of those young groups

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Speaker 1: or the youth groups, and they date. And while it's

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Speaker 1: important that the person they choose to marry be a

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Speaker 1: fellow church member, and that you know, and parents will

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Speaker 1: certainly speak up if they think someone is unsuitable, those

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Speaker 1: are love matches. From what we are learning from the

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Speaker 1: local township police and from the Pennsylvania State Police, Linda

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Speaker 1: was very happy in the Amish lifestyle. No one, not

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Speaker 1: one person that they interviewed reported she was unhappy in

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Speaker 1: any way. She was very timid in groups in public.

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Speaker 1: She never had any boyfriends or non Amish friends. Police

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Speaker 1: searched her bedroom and found her money still there, along

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Speaker 1: with her travel bag and other belongings. The only thing

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Speaker 1: missing or her church clothes. Police also checked for any

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Speaker 1: activity on this young girl's bank accounts. There has been none.

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Speaker 1: That tells me a lot. You know, when I compare

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, New York Psychologists joining us Lucy's behavior to

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Speaker 1: John David's behavior my children, they're completely different. John David

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Speaker 1: is the mayor of Happyville. He will walk into a

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Speaker 1: room and he may not know anybody at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: By the time he leaves will know everybody, and while

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Speaker 1: not being the center of attention, will have a perfectly

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Speaker 1: wonderful time. Lucy, my daughter at home, is very She

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Speaker 1: runs the whole ship, okay, because it's just easier because

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Speaker 1: she's very particular for us to go along with her desires.

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Speaker 1: But in a group, she's really timid and shy, very

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Speaker 1: very quiet. So I believe that what do you make

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Speaker 1: of the fact that police are saying very timid and shy,

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Speaker 1: no indication she was unhappy with the Amish lifestyle. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a very strong indication that this is not a

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Speaker 1: girl who just decided one day I'm going to leave

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Speaker 1: and walked off wearing her Amish clothes and decided that

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Speaker 1: she's going to start her life again. It's not like

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Speaker 1: the kind of movies that we see where someone leaves

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Speaker 1: that kind of a strict religious community and decides to

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Speaker 1: be independent because there was no indication, and much like Lucy,

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Speaker 1: who by the way, was like that since she was born,

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, much shyer. You know, she's very shy,

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Speaker 1: so she would never just approach a stranger. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: she was taught not to and there would be no

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Speaker 1: reason for her to do that. So something is indeed

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Speaker 1: very suspicious here. And that's where you look at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: Troy s Layton renewn on criminal defense attorney joining me

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Speaker 1: out of la You look to see if they left

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Speaker 1: on their own, and a lot of people would thinking, oh,

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Speaker 1: she hated the Amish lifestyles too repressive. No, as a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, she loved it. So that's where you start.

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Speaker 1: Did she leave on her own? Was she in the

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Speaker 1: car with some guy and this rig Kia that may

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Speaker 1: or may not have been her because a woman in

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Speaker 1: the car had all one of the traditional headdresses, But

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Speaker 1: that does is not supported by the facts that we know, Troy.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that where you the jumping off point? Well, the

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Speaker 1: people that they asked about whether or not she was

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Speaker 1: happy with the Amish lifestyle were other Amish people, So

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Speaker 1: of course everyone is going to say that she was

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Speaker 1: happy with that lifestyle. I don't believe you've got a

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Speaker 1: girl missing. I think they're going to tell the truth.

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Speaker 1: We heard from the anthropologist up that there's an up

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Speaker 1: to fifteen percent defection rate for Amish. Yes, all of

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Speaker 1: that aside, we don't have anybody. We don't have any

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Speaker 1: forensic evidence that we know of that's been publicly reported

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Speaker 1: that shows that there was any type of foul play.

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Speaker 1: And although she may have left her money and other belongings,

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Speaker 1: if she was trying to make a quick getaway and

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Speaker 1: not raise suspicion in the Amish community where everybody is

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Speaker 1: looking in on everybody else's business, then maybe that makes

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Speaker 1: perfect sense. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we were

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Speaker 1: talking about the disappearance of a teen girl, Linda Stultzfus.

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Speaker 1: When you think of Amish communities, you don't think I've kidnapped,

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Speaker 1: much less anything worse. So what did happened to Linda?

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Speaker 1: Where is she now? I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: our special guest joining us, Karen Johnson Weiner, author of

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Speaker 1: the Lives of Amish Women. We just heard Troice Layton,

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Speaker 1: defense attorney out of la reiterate the fact that there's

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Speaker 1: a fifteen percent defection rate in the Amish community. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a very low defection rate. Eighty five

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Speaker 1: percent of people Amish people stay within the community. And two,

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Speaker 1: I'm not the expert you are, but I would be

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Speaker 1: willing to guess at a large percentage of those that

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Speaker 1: defect our male. You would be correct. It's the defection

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Speaker 1: rate is higher among male than female, and females tend

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Speaker 1: to leave the church if they're unhappy with the church teachings.

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Speaker 1: And so far there seems to be no indication that

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Speaker 1: Linda was unhappy with church teachings. Men awesome leave to

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Speaker 1: get things, you know, they want to have cars or something,

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Speaker 1: so it's even less likely that she defected. When people defect,

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Speaker 1: they often have plans in advance and have and do

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Speaker 1: make arrangements with outsiders. But there's been no indication that,

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Speaker 1: or at least none has been mentioned that Linda had

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Speaker 1: those kinds of connections with non Amish people that would

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Speaker 1: facilitate such a departure. And Karen Joy, why are I

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Speaker 1: assume they don't have social media either? Well, that would

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Speaker 1: be false, Particularly in Lancaster County, Amish young people, many

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Speaker 1: of them do have cell phones. Many of them are

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Speaker 1: on Facebook. As I said, there's great diversity in the

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Speaker 1: Amish world and the Amish and Lancaster, and you know

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Speaker 1: this is not uniform across all of Lancaster, but the

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Speaker 1: Amish in Lancaster tend to be among the most progressive

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Speaker 1: of Amish. So you will find Amish young people with

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Speaker 1: cell phone. You will find them u participating in social media. Um,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like Linda was one of those. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the nature of the youth group

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Speaker 1: that she was in. That's that's not been reported. There

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Speaker 1: are different kinds of youth groups. Some are supervised by

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Speaker 1: it all, some are not. I don't know about Linda's group,

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Speaker 1: but nothing in what's reported suggests that she was unhappy

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Speaker 1: with the church, that she was one of those who

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Speaker 1: crowded the senses. The Amish say that she was partying

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Speaker 1: wildly with a wild youth group. Well, it was said earlier,

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Speaker 1: and I thought this really stuck in my head, that

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Speaker 1: they don't have cars. It sometimes men lay the Amish

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Speaker 1: community because they want things like cars. But we think

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Speaker 1: she may have been spotted in a red ki of

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Speaker 1: which tells me if that was her it was a

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Speaker 1: non Amish person she was with earlier. Troice Latton mentioned

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Speaker 1: forensic cavinets take a listen to our friend Grace Griffithin

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Speaker 1: at Fox forty three, the authorities said they have not

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Speaker 1: found eighteen year old Linda Stultspus. They reiterated all evidence

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Speaker 1: suggests that she may have been harmed. They're also asking

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Speaker 1: people in Lakester County to check their home surveillance systems

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Speaker 1: to see if there are any clues there. Something that

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Speaker 1: seems so insignificant could be of great impact of this case.

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Speaker 1: That's the message from the four main agencies investigating the

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Speaker 1: Linda Stultspus abduction. The Pennsylvania State Police, East lamp Peter

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Speaker 1: Township Police, the FBI, and the Lakester County District Attorney's

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Speaker 1: Office authority spoke publicly on the case for the first time.

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Speaker 1: There have also been many questions about what steps police

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Speaker 1: are taking in this investigation, and while we cannot answer

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Speaker 1: that in detail at this time, I want to assure

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Speaker 1: you that you're using all investigative tools at our disposal

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Speaker 1: to completely inappropriately investigate the disappearance of Linda Stoltzfus. I

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Speaker 1: do not believe it's appropriate to just assume she wanted

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Speaker 1: to leave the Amish community a The defection rate very

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Speaker 1: very low for Amish women too. She exhibited no unhappiness

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Speaker 1: amongst her religion or her friends and family, but the

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Speaker 1: red Kia keeps looming. Take a listen to Barbara Barr

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Speaker 1: w g al Core Papers provide information on the alleged

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Speaker 1: abduction and detail what led police to arrest thirty four

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Speaker 1: year old Yousto Smoker. The paper cites surveillance cameras that

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Speaker 1: put his car in this area when Linda Stoltzfus disappeared.

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Speaker 1: The afternoon of June twenty first, The video, enhanced by

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Speaker 1: the FBI captured a red Kia. Police rully traced the

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Speaker 1: Smoker driving along Stumptown in Beechdale Roads between twelve thirty

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Speaker 1: six and twelve forty two that Sunday afternoon. The camera

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Speaker 1: show a person walking in the direction Linda would have

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Speaker 1: been going, and a second unknown person coming from where

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Speaker 1: the vehicle pulled off. In the affidavit, witnesses told investigators

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Speaker 1: they saw an Amish woman riding in a red car

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Speaker 1: on Amish Roading Gap around one thirty that afternoon. Two

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Speaker 1: days later, around five pm. Police say. Another witness reported

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Speaker 1: seeing the vehicle park near train tracks and rocks. Police

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Speaker 1: would eventually find some of Linda's clothing buried there. The

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Speaker 1: search for this team girl takes an ominous turn when

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Speaker 1: items believe to be hers are found buried near a

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Speaker 1: railroad track straight out to Cheryl McCollum, director cole Case

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Speaker 1: Research Institute, where did the surveillance video come from? And

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Speaker 1: how can we be sure that that was Linda in

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Speaker 1: the surveillance video, Nancy. It came from a private home.

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Speaker 1: It was the path that she would take to go

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Speaker 1: back home to get the dessert that she made for

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Speaker 1: the party. She was walking in the right direction. And

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Speaker 1: they've identified her from that video. And here's the thing that,

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Speaker 1: of course is completely just twisted devil to me. This

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Speaker 1: person in the red kid knew from a distance that

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Speaker 1: she was Amish. The cathlink dress, the apron, the bonnet,

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Speaker 1: he knew. So even from a distance, he knew again,

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't have a cell phone, nobody would have GPS

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Speaker 1: on her. He knew there wouldn't be a phone at

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Speaker 1: the family home. So when she didn't return home, they

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Speaker 1: would literally have to take a horse and buggy to

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Speaker 1: the next place that maybe had a phone. You're talking

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Speaker 1: about a lot of time before they can search places

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Speaker 1: for this child, the church where the party is, her

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Speaker 1: best friend's farm. You're talking about a lot of time

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Speaker 1: wasted trying just to figure out issue where she's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be. The other thing that is good, though, forensically,

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Speaker 1: is that they did recover some items that have been buried.

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Speaker 1: Those items, if the assailant touched them and buried them

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Speaker 1: her braun stockings, they would possibly have touched DNA on them. Two.

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Speaker 1: Karen Justin Weiner, author of The Lives of Amish Women,

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Speaker 1: is it true that Amish do not have telephones? You

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Speaker 1: told me that many of them have cell phones. Yes, certainly,

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Speaker 1: some of the young folkous cell phones, others have. Others

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Speaker 1: in the community will have cell phones. It really depends

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Speaker 1: on which Amish community you're talking about, and that's the

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Speaker 1: case in Lancaster. People will have cell phones. Now, whether

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Speaker 1: Linda had a cellphone is another question. It sounds to

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Speaker 1: me like her family was conservative and that she was

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Speaker 1: with a conservative youth group, and so she may not

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Speaker 1: have and people there may not have had cellphones. My

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Speaker 1: guest for a base, she did not and that they

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Speaker 1: did not Karen, because I think they would have called

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Speaker 1: her if she didn't show up. Sunday. Yeah, it's Sunday

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Speaker 1: and people, you know that Sunday is important. She's not

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Speaker 1: going to have it on Sunday. Sunday is for church

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys were talking about a

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Speaker 1: missing Amish girl, Linda Saltspoo's eighteen years old, very shy,

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Speaker 1: very timid, walking home from church, goes missing. We believe

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Speaker 1: she was spotted in a red kio. I'm speaking with

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Speaker 1: Karen Johnson Weiner, author of the Lives of Amish Women. So, Karen,

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Speaker 1: if they're going to have a cell phone, which many

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Speaker 1: of them do not, but if they do, I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: I've never known that there is a rule they can't

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Speaker 1: use it on Sunday. They wouldn't be using it on Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Um that Sunday is is, Well, it's the Sabbath. She's

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Speaker 1: at church. She's not going to take a cell phone

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Speaker 1: to church. Others aren't going to take a cell phone

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Speaker 1: to church. Churches in in someone's home. So so you're

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Speaker 1: not going to do that. Um, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: be buying and selling things on Sunday, so there's not

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Speaker 1: going to be much traffic past the road where an

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Speaker 1: Amish stand might be right, right, So they do have

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Speaker 1: stands on Sunday, so they do buy and sell on

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Speaker 1: Sunday to tourists that they won't that's a done thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they won't. Um, you know, young people who may have

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Speaker 1: cell phones are not going to take them to church. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they're the Sabbath is a day win.

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Speaker 1: You don't do worldly things when it's for the church.

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Speaker 1: It's with family. It's for young people to get together. Guys,

425
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: we are speaking with Karen Johnson wine Or, author of

426
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: the Lives of Amish Women. What more do we know

427
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: about the driver of that red car and about the

428
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: car itself? Take a listen to our friends at wg

429
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: Al Police have arrest of thirty four year old used

430
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: to smoke or for kidnapping eighteen year old Linda Stulfspus.

431
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: They're still searching for and we're reaching out their residence

432
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: for help. We are asking for residence of East Earl,

433
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: East Lamp, Peter, Laycock, Paradise and Salisbury townships to think

434
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: whether they might have seen the red Kia red Kia

435
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: rio pictured here in recent weeks, and if so, where

436
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: they saw it. That's the car belonging to Smoker. It

437
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: was key to his arrest and police hope it will

438
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: lead them to Linda. Surveillance video captured it on Beechdale Road,

439
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: where police say she was kidnapped walking home from church

440
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: the afternoon of June twenty first. The Stultsu's family did

441
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: not know Smoker, and we found no reason that Linda

442
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: would have voluntarily entered Smoker's vehicle only a short distance

443
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: from her home. A witness also spotted the car near

444
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: train tracks, where investigators found some of Linda's clothing buried underground.

445
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: The discovery of intimate clothing buried in a location where

446
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: Smoker's vehicle was seen lends only to the conclusion that

447
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: she suffered harm. What are we learning? We are learning

448
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: a lot and one simple move by this girl, Linda

449
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: Stultzfus tells me a lot taking listen to John Borack

450
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: WGAL News eight. Several eyewitnesses say they saw Stultzfus in

451
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: the passenger seat all that car. They waved in her,

452
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: but she did not wave back. Two days after her disappearance,

453
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: that same car was spotted at a lumber company in

454
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: Rocks and just yesterday detectives found some of Linda's clothing

455
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: buried in a wooded area at that same location. As

456
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: of now, though detectives have not found Linda Stultsis, but

457
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: the search continues. Sierra Gillestie with me Crime online dot

458
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: Com investigatory porter. What specifically were the items of clothing

459
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: that have been found and is it true zip ties

460
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: were also recovered? Nancy, It is true ziptides were recovered

461
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: in that area. Investigators were searching around. They even brought

462
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: in cadaver dogs, which were dogs that would smell out

463
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: if there was a body. The dogs did not find anything,

464
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: but eventually investigators decided to dig and relatively deep down

465
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: they found some of her personal items. So they found

466
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: her stockings and Linda's bra in that area. Cheryl McCollum,

467
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: Director Cold Case Research Institute forensics expert, joining us, this

468
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: young girl who was so shy and timid from the

469
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: Amish community would never have parnered with her stockings or

470
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: her bra willingly never would not have happened again. Nancy.

471
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: What's concerning, obviously is that this person that was last

472
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: seen with her had at least three days the day

473
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: of the abduction, and then two days later his car

474
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: has seen so he's had three days to dispose of

475
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: evidence and to hide evidence and hide her. And he did,

476
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 1: of course obviously have access to a vehicle, so we

477
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: don't know where she is right now. But again, if

478
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: she's recovered, obviously I think zip ties are going to

479
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: be involved, it'll be the exact same zip tie that's

480
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: already been found. And again, his DNA quite possibly is

481
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: on all three items that they have recovered so far.

482
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: If he has a cell phone, they will also start

483
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: pinging that cell phone to see us how far outside

484
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: Lancaster he might have gone to dispose of her. But

485
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: if I can just say one more thing, the FBI

486
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: has done something unique that I've never heard of before,

487
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: and have done a photo with her end just regular

488
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: street clothes that any seventeen year old, eighteen year old

489
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: teenager would wear, and have done a photo with her

490
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: with her hair down, without the bonnet, so just in

491
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: case he's putting her somewhere else to look like a

492
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: typical American teenager, non amish, a typical American teenager without

493
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: her bra stockings. Okay too, this is what I don't understand.

494
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: Who is this guy? And as Sheryl mccollin pointed out earlier,

495
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: he could target her as Amish at a distance based

496
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: on her outfit. Karen Johnson Winder, what would her outfit

497
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: have been? Well, it would be it would have been

498
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: a black dress with a white apron. She would have

499
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: had a bonnet or perhaps just her prayer cap on

500
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: which would have been white for church. And she would

501
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: have had the black stockings, black shoes, so she would

502
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: have stood out easily. It's a it's a well known outfit.

503
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: It's in all sorts of tourist pictures all over Lancaster County.

504
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: Jeu Sierra Gillespie. What do we know about who? Stout

505
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: Smoker thirty four years old, Nancy. What we know about

506
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: him is he's from the Paradise township, which is relatively

507
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: close to burn in Hand. It's like ten or fifteen

508
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: minutes away, So we know that this guy is very

509
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: familiar with an Amish community, growing up or living in

510
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: that area. Something else that's very important to note too

511
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: is he was just released from prison back in twenty nineteen,

512
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: so just last year, and this was after a string

513
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: of armed robberies that took place in two thousand and six,

514
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: so he spent a great deal of time in prison

515
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: for that and was just recently released. Troy Slight and

516
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, why is he even out number one?

517
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: And it's my understanding he's pled not guilty. Shouldn't he

518
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: be trying to work a deal and tell where Linda is?

519
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: That's assuming that he knows where she is. But at

520
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: this point, he's pled not guilty and he is presumed

521
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: innocent until the government can prove each and every element

522
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: of the crime against him beyond a reasonable doubt. And

523
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: at this point, according to his attorney, the chief public

524
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: Defender in Lancaster County, the only images that the government

525
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: have are blurry images that show pixels and not any people.

526
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: And there's no way to prove from those photos or

527
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: videos that it was Stoltzfus in the video with Smoker.

528
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: So the Chary mc column, how do I prove she

529
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: was in the car? Well, I think what they're gonna

530
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: do again, They're gonna look at his cell phone in

531
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: that data, and you know, when they interviewed him, he

532
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: even admitted, yeah, that looks like my car. The other

533
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: thing is Nancy. He has no alibi, so it's not

534
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: like he was visiting his own father that day. He

535
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: wasn't at work, he wasn't with other family or friends.

536
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: He wasn't golfing, he wasn't at church, he didn't check

537
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: in anywhere with his cell phone like Starbucks. The fact

538
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: that he does not have an alibi is very concerning

539
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: for me as well. I've got another break, and that

540
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 1: is that the suspect who has been arrested in her disappearance,

541
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: we now believe may has been a third cousin, once removed,

542
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: translation a distant relative that gives him a connection, although

543
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: it's tenuous to this girl. We wait as justice unfolds.

544
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: Tipline one eight hundred two two five five three two four.

545
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: There is a ten thousand dollar reward. Goodbye friend,