1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,119
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

5
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

6
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 2: Our colleague Gol is on an adventure, but will return shortly.

7
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

8
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,559
Speaker 3: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

9
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,720
Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

10
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. Shout out to everyone

11
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,879
Speaker 3: who has this plane on some kind of automatic shuffle

12
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 3: or playlist as they are slumbering sleeping listeners. We welcome

13
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 3: you to tonight's episode, which is all about dreams. Dreams, dreams.

14
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 2: That's right. You may even be aware and awake at

15
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,960
Speaker 2: this point in the show, but very soon you will

16
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 2: drift off. What you dream will be directly influenced by what.

17
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 3: You hear eight minus six. We've had some fascinating explorations

18
00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 3: of dreams in the past. We're talking about this and

19
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:29,280
Speaker 3: related cognitive science off air. While back, we did a

20
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 3: two part episode on the concept of precognitive or clairvoyant dreams.

21
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 3: Dreams that, from the perspective of their supporters, dreams that

22
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,679
Speaker 3: appear to predict the future, violating what we understand is

23
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 3: the laws of linear time and what we learned in

24
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 3: those episodes, it's weird. I went back and listened to

25
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 3: the matt and reread the research too. We went back

26
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 3: and listened to those episodes and reread the research, and

27
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 3: we found that the basic physiological or neurological phenomenon that

28
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 3: we call the dream is understood in that we know

29
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 3: it happens. We also know the other non human animals dream.

30
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 3: Do check out many video clips of octopuses that appear

31
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,519
Speaker 3: to be dreaming. And Dylan and you and I were

32
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,760
Speaker 3: having a little family time before we rolled, talking about

33
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,919
Speaker 3: how much we enjoy our animals dreaming, like our pets are,

34
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 3: our dogs and cats and so on.

35
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 2: It's pretty adorable, especially watching my dog dream, just watching

36
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,080
Speaker 2: how animated her body is, where she will physically be running.

37
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 2: You can see her arms moving while she's laying on

38
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,680
Speaker 2: her side as though she's chasing something, and then making

39
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 2: verbal sounds as though she's barking at something or up

40
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 2: said about something. Even it's fascinating. What makes you wonder

41
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 2: what we really do when we're asleep. And if you

42
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 2: sleep next to someone on the regular, maybe you've got

43
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,640
Speaker 2: some reports of what your sleeping life is like. But

44
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,680
Speaker 2: even they might be sleeping too in the times when

45
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,920
Speaker 2: we're doing really wacky stuff, jogging in place, doing ninja stuff.

46
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 2: I don't know.

47
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've seen this. I've seen birds dream I've

48
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,079
Speaker 3: seen an octopus stream. I've seen one of my cats

49
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,640
Speaker 3: actually doesn't make a lot of appearances on here, the

50
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,119
Speaker 3: cat with a thousand names. I've seen that guy went

51
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 3: a wall a few years back and then returned to

52
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 3: his own volition, and ever since then he's been having

53
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,840
Speaker 3: dreams where he's obviously back outside hunting things. And he

54
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 3: also snores, And one time he snored so loudly that

55
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 3: he woke himself up and then turned and shot a

56
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 3: poison glance my way, screamed at me, and instantly went

57
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,480
Speaker 3: back to sleep.

58
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 2: What did you do? Me? Up? Right?

59
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 3: Right right? Another phenomenon that's a good entry point, because

60
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,600
Speaker 3: we know that dreams can Dreams are functionally another version

61
00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:23,280
Speaker 3: of reality that you experience in a specific series of

62
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 3: brain activity stages, and that vividness, the appearance of concrete

63
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 3: experienced reality is why again, if you sleep next to

64
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,760
Speaker 3: someone all the time, it is why your girlfriend might

65
00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 3: wake up mad at something you did in her dream.

66
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,280
Speaker 3: Classic trope.

67
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 2: Yep. I would just say that kind of thing occurs

68
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 2: a lot. I think that's probably universally and just your

69
00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 2: significant other. Yeah, look at you a little different. When

70
00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,680
Speaker 2: you wake up in the morning. You're like, what's going on? Everything? Okay,

71
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,719
Speaker 2: You're just a jerk.

72
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,920
Speaker 3: Right right? You're like, what, I just woke up too?

73
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,039
Speaker 3: And then they're like, yeah, well, I guess I'll see

74
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:12,160
Speaker 3: you on the lush, exotic coast of Belgium, asshole. And

75
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 3: you know what do you do but respond politely and

76
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,880
Speaker 3: wait for people to get back and sync with the

77
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,480
Speaker 3: waking world. We know more and more about brain activity

78
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 3: during dream states, but get this, even on May sixteenth, Friday,

79
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, human civilization still isn't sure why dreams

80
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 3: are a thing. No, Matt, you'll remember in our previous explorations,

81
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 3: I think we landed on the on a loose agreement

82
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,000
Speaker 3: that the most plausible answer for dreams as and why

83
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,880
Speaker 3: they're a thing. It goes down to the concept of

84
00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,320
Speaker 3: like defragging a hard drive and encoding memory, and that's

85
00:05:53,400 --> 00:06:00,080
Speaker 3: the most widely scientifically accepted explanation, but the debate continues.

86
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 3: And back in twenty twenty one, we had a interesting

87
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:11,480
Speaker 3: conversation about a controversial ad campaign, and that is what

88
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,479
Speaker 3: led to tonight's episode. You see, despite the fact that

89
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 3: people don't fully understand dreams and what this bizarre mental

90
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 3: activity is, civilization in the past few decades has made

91
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 3: stunning and we would posit somewhat disturbing progress toward manipulating dreams.

92
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,600
Speaker 3: And that's where our story begins.

93
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 2: Yes, it begins right after these words from our sponsors.

94
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,480
Speaker 3: Here are the facts. What are dreams? All right? We're

95
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 3: not going to belabor our earlier complaints about how cartoonish

96
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,440
Speaker 3: the idea of sleep is. To begin with. Dreaming is

97
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,640
Speaker 3: literally and simply put, a hallucinatory experience that occurs to

98
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 3: some living organisms during sleep. Yep, it's hallucinating.

99
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's extremely vivid images, sounds, all of your other

100
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 2: sensory equipment. It gets activated via that old brain you

101
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 2: got up in that head of yours, and it's pretty cool.

102
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 2: It's awesome. Actually, dreams can be fulfilling, dreams can be terrifying,

103
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 2: dreams can make you go out and try and fulfill

104
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,040
Speaker 2: some vision that you saw while you were sleeping.

105
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:41,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and unless we sound like we're casting aspersions on

106
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 3: our much beloved pets, we've all been in a situation

107
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 3: where your nervous system gets confused about which reality you're in.

108
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,720
Speaker 3: Because dreams are truly the first virtual reality. That is

109
00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 3: what the series of hallucinations can be defined at. So

110
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 3: everybody's had that moment where you just sort of feel

111
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 3: like you're falling and who right, yeah, or you need

112
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,880
Speaker 3: to move and you can't that sleep paralysis. Check out

113
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,160
Speaker 3: our episodes on that. Please do do do do keep it.

114
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 3: Please check out our two part episode on whether dreams

115
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,440
Speaker 3: have really predicted the future. For now, for us, the

116
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 3: most important thing to remember about this mental state is

117
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 3: the following. Like you alluded to, Matt, dreams have always

118
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:33,839
Speaker 3: mystified humanity, and they've created a great deal of religious thought,

119
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 3: and they've also determined many real world events. The wars

120
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,040
Speaker 3: have been inspired, right because somebody woke up having a

121
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,880
Speaker 3: vivid dream that stayed with them upon waking. Religions have

122
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,840
Speaker 3: been founded upon this civilization has hinged on these images

123
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:53,679
Speaker 3: from the dark.

124
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 2: And you know, I've written multiple songs because I woke

125
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 2: up and I just couldn't get a thought out of

126
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 2: my head that was somehow conjured in those moments when

127
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 2: I was asleep. And I've done that with drawing as well,

128
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,319
Speaker 2: where you just wake up here, what is this thing?

129
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 2: I have to get it down, whatever message was trying

130
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 2: to be conveyed to me by myself. I gotta put

131
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:17,680
Speaker 2: this down.

132
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually, I think I told you a few years back.

133
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 3: I do most of my best writing in the few

134
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,640
Speaker 3: hours when I'm asleep, and then I wake up and go,

135
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,040
Speaker 3: oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, just pour it out. Or

136
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,640
Speaker 3: that old Mitch Hebberg joke, you know he has to

137
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 3: keep a notepad by his night stand because otherwise he

138
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 3: wakes up in the middle of the night, doesn't have

139
00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,319
Speaker 3: a way to write it down, and has to tell

140
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,120
Speaker 3: himself the joke wasn't that good?

141
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,079
Speaker 2: Well, because then it'll be gone. That is the thing,

142
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,360
Speaker 2: dream journaling and all that stuff. If you don't get

143
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 2: it down immediately, your brain is going to start filling

144
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 2: in gaps and just make up other things, which could

145
00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,200
Speaker 2: be great if you're in a creative process.

146
00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,400
Speaker 3: Right sure, yeah, we And also, what, well, how about

147
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 3: this later on in tonight's episode, will teach you a

148
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 3: little pen and pad free mnemonic encoding device to help

149
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,360
Speaker 3: you remember your dreams when you wake up, and it

150
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 3: does work. It's weird, but it's worth trying. So, like Matt,

151
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 3: you and I have a lot in common with countless

152
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:28,080
Speaker 3: authors and musicians. Mary Shelley right, Frankenstein. Paul McCartney credits

153
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:34,000
Speaker 3: a lot of his musical endeavors to experiences in his

154
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,520
Speaker 3: dream state. We also know this is not restricted to

155
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 3: what we would call quote unquote creative pursuits, even though

156
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,360
Speaker 3: I think science is inherently a creative pursuit. Scientists like

157
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 3: Neils Bohr have made some of their greatest discoveries while

158
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 3: literally asleep. As we all know, Borr, who is considered

159
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,880
Speaker 3: the father of quantum mechanics, He repeatedly throughout his later

160
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,320
Speaker 3: life credited his discovery of the structure of the atom

161
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 3: to a dream. He said, look, I was just having

162
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 3: a regular day, regular night.

163
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:10,959
Speaker 2: You know.

164
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 3: He ate his soup and rude of begas or his

165
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,920
Speaker 3: case idella whatever Niels Porn was eating, and he goes

166
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,480
Speaker 3: to sleep, regular guy. He starts dreaming about atoms, and

167
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,920
Speaker 3: he vividly sees it is burned into his brain. The

168
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,839
Speaker 3: nucleus of the atom, the electrons and the passages they

169
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,000
Speaker 3: spin in orbit around it, the way the planets spin

170
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 3: around the Sun. And he wakes up and he goes,

171
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,559
Speaker 3: holy shit.

172
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's exactly what he said. Well, if we

173
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,480
Speaker 2: think about dreams as specifically defragging the hard drive that

174
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 2: is your mind and your neural connections, and then we

175
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:55,160
Speaker 2: imagine that every thought and every reference, every word, all

176
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 2: of the things that you have to be able to

177
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 2: produce as language and to have thoughts are connections between

178
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,560
Speaker 2: different neurons. Right sure, yep. And if we are defragging,

179
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 2: we've maybe learned about seventeen different things in one day,

180
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 2: and then we've got some older memories packed in there

181
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,559
Speaker 2: that we defrag the right way in our dreaming state,

182
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,920
Speaker 2: and that connection gets made without us being consciously aware

183
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 2: of it, and then you wake up and now it's there.

184
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,120
Speaker 3: And riddle me this, because this verge is onto something

185
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,720
Speaker 3: fascinating that has still yet to be explained. Let's walk

186
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:37,840
Speaker 3: through it. So we know that different avenues of receiving

187
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,680
Speaker 3: external stimuli process memory in different ways. Smell and taste

188
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,280
Speaker 3: are extremely powerful. That's right. That's why, right now, if

189
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,120
Speaker 3: we ask you friends and neighbors to recall your favorite smell,

190
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,320
Speaker 3: it's gonna pop in your head. It's not just gonna

191
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 3: pop in your head. A series of favorite smells are

192
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,480
Speaker 3: gonna pop in your head, along with associate images and

193
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,480
Speaker 3: maybe the sense of time and what you experienced it.

194
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,959
Speaker 3: So this is what mystifies me. Folks. Why why are

195
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:17,479
Speaker 3: dreams often not reported in terms of smell or olfactory stimuli?

196
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 2: I don't have that thing. I can't think about a smell.

197
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,679
Speaker 3: Most people don't dream, don't encounter smells when they're dreaming.

198
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 3: And if you do, please let us know, because you

199
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,640
Speaker 3: would be a fascinating outlier. Right, this is something I

200
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,959
Speaker 3: think it. I think it goes down to the way

201
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 3: smell and taste in code into the brain. I really

202
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 3: think that's it.

203
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was gonna be I was gonna make a

204
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,080
Speaker 2: joke about you know, if you're if you're getting actively

205
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,199
Speaker 2: Dutch ovens while asleep and you're unaware of it, then

206
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,439
Speaker 2: you could probably sense smell while you're dreaming.

207
00:13:53,559 --> 00:14:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't call us, call call the pot police. Yeah,

208
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,959
Speaker 3: law in order, poop police. Boom boom, Oh wow, you're

209
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,960
Speaker 3: gonna get sued, no joke left behind anyway. So I

210
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 3: love that man in these and other cases, though, we

211
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,800
Speaker 3: do see the science and dreaming at play, right, And

212
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 3: you and I have known each other for quite some time,

213
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:29,200
Speaker 3: and we've talked consistently over the years about the nature

214
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 3: of lucid dreaming. Don't make fun of us. Matt and

215
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 3: I do share our dreams with each other. We have

216
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,920
Speaker 3: also encountered lectures and courses and even technology that's designed

217
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 3: to inculcate lucid dreaming to help you understand the symbols

218
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 3: or interpretations of what you see, journaling exercises like you mentioned.

219
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 3: This is valuable stuff. And the thing that I'm not

220
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 3: going to speak for you, But the thing that bugs

221
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 3: me often about skepticism in this regard is that a

222
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 3: lot of the more skeptical of us will dismiss dreams

223
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 3: as little bore than, like a knock on cool side

224
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 3: effect of evolution. Right, But then we have to ask

225
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 3: what happened if Matt forgot the song that he learned

226
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 3: in his dream. What happens if Neil's Boorr just forgets

227
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 3: the structure of atoms? What happens if that legendary sleepy

228
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,480
Speaker 3: little patent cleric Albert Einstein ignores his own slumbering visions

229
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 3: on the principle of relativity and the nature of the

230
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 3: observable universe.

231
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, then all of our sleep just becomes blackness, nothingness,

232
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 2: the void itself.

233
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 3: I'd be fine with that, man. There's a reason I

234
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 3: don't sleep often. It's so weird.

235
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 2: Oh no, I get it. Dream that is something we

236
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 2: should talk about. Dreams can also be the worst thing ever,

237
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 2: especially if you've got traumatic experiences in the waking world.

238
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 2: By I've been there, I think maybe a lot of

239
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 2: us have, where the moment you fall asleep, it is

240
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 2: feels like torture almost, because you're just back there.

241
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 3: I also, you know what I hate. This may be

242
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 3: symptomatic of a larger mental issue, but I can't remember

243
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 3: if I told you this. The majority of my dreams

244
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 3: exist in an interconnected universe. They're aware of each other.

245
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 3: They reference earlier stuff. It's weird.

246
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 2: Well, you're actually fine. An ancient vampire, right, and what else?

247
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 4: Uh?

248
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 3: Is the spirits of the dead. No, it's seriously, it's

249
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 3: weird stuff. Man, Like that is cool.

250
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: That's like a superpower though, because you could build that

251
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 2: universe like here if you wanted.

252
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 3: To, Man, I don't know, Like I haven't told you

253
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 3: all the stuff. It's the lore is deep and it's

254
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 3: like I want to reboot oh Ya again. But anyway,

255
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,679
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. We're not here to talking about me.

256
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,679
Speaker 3: We're here to talk about the fact that people have

257
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 3: been interpreting dreams. We've been human civilization has been trying

258
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,119
Speaker 3: to understand what the heck this is and why it

259
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,920
Speaker 3: exists since before humans figured out how to write things down.

260
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 3: And it's a thriving industry today. I don't want to

261
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 3: put you too far on the spot, but do you

262
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 3: ever do you ever have a dream that sent you

263
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,680
Speaker 3: to the Internet? Do you ever just do a quick

264
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,679
Speaker 3: google on dream symbolism?

265
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 4: Oh?

266
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 2: Generally no, But I have weird stuff Like the other night,

267
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 2: Jimmy Fallon and Chloe Feinman and I were hanging out

268
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,879
Speaker 2: and for some reason drinking absence Like, but that was cool.

269
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 2: It wasn't haunting, it wasn't scary, it was just great.

270
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a moment that happens, you know what

271
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 3: I mean. Also, also, folks, from just a production perspective,

272
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 3: please respect your brain. It is doing new shows every

273
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,400
Speaker 3: single time you fall asleep, you know what I mean. Yeah,

274
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 3: not all of them are going to be terrible. Some

275
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 3: will be great, and then some will be Like I

276
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 3: had one where I had to drive from one dream

277
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 3: to another, and time is tricky in this virtual reality,

278
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 3: but it was literally two and a half hours that

279
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 3: I remember where I'm just driving and listening to light

280
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 3: instrumental music.

281
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 2: That's beautiful, man. I don't know, man, Well, it's a

282
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: weird thing because time doesn't work the same in dreams.

283
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,919
Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody has experienced this, but I

284
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 2: took a nap. In total, it was fifteen minutes, just

285
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 2: like lay your head down. For me, it was literally

286
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 2: in between two meetings because I just couldn't keep my

287
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 2: eyes open laid down. I thought it was days in

288
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 2: a dream like I thought so much time had passed,

289
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 2: but it was, no, it was It was less than

290
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. So it is a weird thing that we

291
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 2: can perceive that stuff even when in this space, this reality,

292
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 2: it's only been a couple of minutes.

293
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember similar experiences. I think we've all had

294
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 3: some time or linear time parkour in dreams, which is

295
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 3: one of the one of the coolest branches of the

296
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 3: concept of dreaming, and there is a modern scientifically respected

297
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 3: version of dream study owneurology O N E I R

298
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,119
Speaker 3: O L O G. Why it's branch of psychology, and

299
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 3: they're not really trying to do the Freudian Youngian interpretation

300
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 3: of you know, what does this blue tiger mean? Right?

301
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 3: Why does it pursue you? Or things like that. What

302
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 3: they're doing instead is exploring the process of dreaming and

303
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 3: further attempting to correlate the nature of the lived experience

304
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 3: of the dream to the activity in the human brain

305
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 3: on a physical neurological level, and then also to understand

306
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 3: how it relates to memory formation, how it may relate

307
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 3: to mental disorders and other I don't love the term,

308
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 3: but other divergent conditions. That's how it's often put in literature.

309
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 2: That word reminds me of oni. The concept of oni.

310
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 2: Isn't that a specific type of yokai like a yes demon, right,

311
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 2: which makes you think of nightmares, which makes me think

312
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 2: of like the when we looked up the origins of

313
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 2: that concept, Wow.

314
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 3: Okay, nightmares that's sleep paralysis episode was a banger and

315
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,199
Speaker 3: also interesting. If we want to go YOUNGI in just

316
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 3: for a moment, I believe Eve, and I'm not gonna

317
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 3: I'm not going to google it. Let's see if I'm right.

318
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 3: I believe that an one is subterranean trogoladitic. I believe

319
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 3: they're found in caves, in deep places, which Young would

320
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 3: just love.

321
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: Deep within the recesses of the folds of your mind.

322
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 3: Dude, Young would be Okay. If you had to pick

323
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 3: between hanging out with Freud or hanging out with Carl Young,

324
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,959
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say it, I would probably go Young. Freud

325
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 3: feels like a very smart dude who could be a lot.

326
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 2: I'm going with Freud so I can get to Berne's.

327
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 3: He'll say, why do you keep asking about my nephew.

328
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 3: We're supposed to sit over here, lick these cigars and

329
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 3: not think of penises. Freud was crazy, dude. I feel

330
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 3: like enough time has passed right that I can say

331
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 3: that he was He was, Yes.

332
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: He was protecting. Is that what you're saying?

333
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 3: He proposed and projected a lot of interesting concepts. But

334
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 3: and look, a lot of people struggle with substance abuse.

335
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 3: But that guy apparently loved cocaine.

336
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: Who doesn't. I'm just joding me. I don't know. Yeah,

337
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 2: I don't know what that's.

338
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 3: Like me neither. I think I'll leave that experience unexperienced.

339
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 3: I'll just read Freud, I guess anyway. So, fellow oeneurologist

340
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 3: in the crowd, awake and asleep. We know this sounds

341
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 3: a little dry, maybe disappointing, but please trust us. There

342
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 3: is bizarre stuff ahead. We have been fascinated by the

343
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 3: concept of well you'll see. We'll pause for a word

344
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 3: from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy, all right,

345
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 3: there turns out right it's an ancient science interpreting dreams,

346
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 3: figuring out what dreams mean. There are in recent decades fascinating,

347
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 3: fascinating experiments into the nature of dreams. The more passive

348
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 3: stuff is observing what happens in a brain when a

349
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,479
Speaker 3: dream occurs. And then you get to the idea of

350
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 3: enabling that dream world or the dreamer to communicate with

351
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 3: the waking world. And then you get into Flutson with

352
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 3: a dream, you know what I mean, touching it just

353
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 3: a little. What dreams may come rated.

354
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 2: Film dreams.

355
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 3: Got to and everybody knows how we spelled that.

356
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, Well, the thing that I think fascinated

357
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 2: us pretty recently. Back in January, we found this story

358
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: about a company that was trying to do this kind

359
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: of stuff. How do we unli the power of dreams? Right?

360
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 2: And how do we even potentially connect people via dreams

361
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: the way we would connect people in an alternate reality

362
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: space or a virtual reality space by making their senses

363
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 2: via you know, Wi Fi signaling see each other, hear

364
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: each other, and potentially even feel each other.

365
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: Right. Which avenue of sensory stimuli can we hack? You know?

366
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 3: What I mean? Is where we get down to it.

367
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 3: This is a response to an ancient thing that is

368
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: problematic for a lot of scientists, and I will confess

369
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 3: in my various misadventures it has been problematic and difficult

370
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: for me to explain as well. Folks, you have perhaps

371
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: felt that you have communicated with a loved one or

372
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 3: a quaint since what's that old trope? There are no

373
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: strangers in dreams. Someone reached out to you. And this

374
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: idea is ubiquitous. It exists across time and cultures, and

375
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: modern science overwhelmingly says, you know, clap trap, hogwash they do.

376
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 2: Until again, this group came along and said, well, let's

377
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 2: at least give it a try. Let's see if we

378
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: can make it happen. And by the way, the person

379
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: acquaintance unknown, whoever it is that we feel is communicating

380
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: to us in our dream, that can be a living person,

381
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: that can be a like again, like for some reason,

382
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: Jimmy Fallon was all about like encouragement and stuff in

383
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: my dream. I don't know why. I don't know the dude,

384
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: but he was. But he could also be somebody who's

385
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: passed on already, right, or maybe somebody from history that

386
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: we that we know and love, or somebody we have

387
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: we've never met before, right or could never have met.

388
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 3: Right or because we're also immediately you the observer and

389
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: the dream you are gifted with dream logic, which means

390
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 3: when you meet someone. That's why we say you no strangers. Really,

391
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: when you meet someone, you immediately know key things about them,

392
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 3: key visceral things.

393
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 2: Yep, and they you because they are you. You are you,

394
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: and they are you. We are us. What's happening? Okay,

395
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: So let's get to this company. Yes, it is in California.

396
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: It's called rem Space r E M space. That's one word. Uh.

397
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: They put out several studies and some a bunch of

398
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: PR stuff, to be fair, like a lot of this

399
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: is prs, a.

400
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: Lot of a lot of PR.

401
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 2: Including like diagrams and videos, and.

402
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: So much so that I believe both of your faithful

403
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 3: correspondence folks struggle to find the actual you know what

404
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: I mean. But it sounds awesome, So let's just it

405
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 3: sounds cool, dream with us, Okay, Matt, what's happening.

406
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: Well, they're able to connect two people who are experiencing

407
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: some form or level of lucid dreaming to then be

408
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 2: able to send one signal from one dreamer via Wi

409
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: Fi through their system out to the other side to

410
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: another human being sleeping far far away, also lucid dreaming.

411
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 2: Then then that person received a signal from the other

412
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 2: person and was able to then repeat it.

413
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So they're using and again this is a

414
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: startup and it is hoping to monetize what we're exploring.

415
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: That's an important thing for later. This experiment uses, as

416
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 3: you said, Matt, just your average brain monitoring equipment, the

417
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 3: server and the Wi Fi or key. The researchers use

418
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 3: the brain monitoring equipment to watch in real time the

419
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 3: action and activity of the brain and then when they

420
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: receive the signal that indicates the participant has entered a

421
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 3: hypnogogic or lucid dream state. Then the server, not the researchers,

422
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 3: the server creates a word in such like some sort

423
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: of specific quote unquote unique language word, which is how

424
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 3: we know this A is pr and not science. And

425
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: so it said, the server creates this thing, and it

426
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: sends it to now our hypnogogic or lucid sleeper via

427
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 3: earbuds that they're wearing as they enter that state, and

428
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: they are still dreaming, but they can still hear the

429
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 3: outside world. So they repeat the word in whatever the

430
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: hell a unique language means.

431
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: And these are sitting there sleeping, and then they say

432
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: it out loud in their body. They dream it somehow.

433
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: Then the clock it. The researchers understand that that's.

434
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 3: What happens, because they measure they can see according to

435
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: what we understand. The the brain monitoring equipment indicates a

436
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: change such that you would know someone that has received

437
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: and repeated to themselves internally information. And now, of course

438
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: if we're at that state of lucid dreaming, or if

439
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 3: we're between full wake and full sleep, then yeah, it's

440
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: possible that someone just went someone went oh, I see

441
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: or whatever, but that's not what we're looking for, and

442
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: so small window of time passes in the real world, right,

443
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: I know, we're getting very inception with this. The second

444
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: sleeper has entered their lucid dream state, they receive that

445
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 3: saved message from the server, and then they wake up

446
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: and they repeat the word that they learned communicated in

447
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 3: a dream state to a dream state, yet still created

448
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 3: and entirely dependent upon the server and the Wi Fi.

449
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where it's a little weird. I think when

450
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: you look at some of the materials that rem Space

451
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: is put forward, it feels as though it sounds as though,

452
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: if you don't get dived too deep into it, as

453
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: though the Lucid dreamer created a message and sent it

454
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: to the second Lucid dreamer and they were lucid dreaming simultaneously.

455
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: And it feels as though, at least to some of

456
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: their materials, that it's happening in real time, like the

457
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: sleepers are just communicating with each other. But that is

458
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: not at least what we understand to be happening. It

459
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: is all their their tech basically that is doing all

460
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: of this stuff. But potentially cool if you had two

461
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: eight comms in dream states. I don't know, man, no,

462
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: I think. In the episode when we first brought up,

463
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: we talked about long distance relationships and how interesting it

464
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: would be to actually connect. You know, there's a saying

465
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: if I don't know if anybody else has this experience,

466
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: but like saying good night going to Ben's sing, I'll

467
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: see in the dreams, Cabra, I'll see out there in

468
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: the dreams, And you say it as a hopeful thing,

469
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: a sweet thing. Sure, what if you could actually flick

470
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: on a machine, put a little something on your head

471
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: and nay, now we're out there in dream world together.

472
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: Interesting? That interesting that you would bring up that part specifically,

473
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: because that aspect of our conversation stayed with me as well.

474
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 3: We know for this right, like what we're describing, according

475
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: to the PR is the ideal next step for r

476
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: EM space. But what we see, even with this tech

477
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 3: reliant proof of concept, is the first known instance of

478
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: communication between people whom are both in a dream state

479
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: a sender and a receiver exists. Right. This also follows

480
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 3: up on an earlier experiment from twenty twenty one, which

481
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: was a big year actually for dream science researchers. Well,

482
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 3: there was this sort of justice League or Avengers or

483
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: x men of researchers from multiple countries who collaborated. And

484
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: this is led by a guy named Ken pallor cognitive

485
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 3: neuroscientist over in Illinois at Northwestern, and they are able

486
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 3: to create dialogue between a person in a dream state

487
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: and a fully awake scientist. It's not a very long

488
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: conversation at all, but it is interesting. I don't know

489
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 3: if it's long enough for us to do a classic

490
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: like stuff. They don't want you to know reenactment, but

491
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 3: maybe we just do the lines together.

492
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: Oh no, let's tell you this. Okay, I will play

493
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: the scientist. If you don't mind, Ben, please play the sleeper.

494
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: Here we go. Scientist says eight minus six.

495
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 3: Eight two.

496
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: Eureka, guys, what happened?

497
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: I was so asleep? Man, I was sleeping, definitely, man.

498
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: Shout out to all of us who are so impressed

499
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: that somewhat did math while asleep.

500
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't even know if you're supposed to be

501
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: able to do that, man.

502
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to check with sleep police.

503
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

504
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 3: I love how we're just inventing police departments. Now we

505
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: got poop police. We got sleep police.

506
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: Uh huh, we got Java police. They said that you've

507
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 2: had enough coffee, as he drinks a monster coffee.

508
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 3: Job police arrest this.

509
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: That's a good one too.

510
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, guys, we are drinking canned coffee because.

511
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: It's just not the same when it's in a cup,

512
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: but if it's in a can, and he goes.

513
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 3: I dreamed that you said that, So so okay, look

514
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 3: eight minus six. Our scientist, Frederick, Doctor Frederick says eight

515
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 3: minus six to a sleeping person, and our patient says,

516
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: I essentially I hear you, and here is the answer.

517
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 3: So I know this is not in this barely freezed

518
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 3: as an interrogative. It's just the three words eight minus six,

519
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 3: and the sleeper, despite not being awake, immediately recognizes, interprets,

520
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: analyzes this as a math conversation, and then produces the result.

521
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, well amazing. So it's not the same as what

522
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: rem Space claims to have done, but it is pretty

523
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 2: cool to be able to send a message out into

524
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: that dream world and then get a response. It kind

525
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: of reminds me of some of the sci fi tropes

526
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 2: where you've got somebody going through like a portal or something,

527
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: or even someone going down into the depths of the ocean,

528
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 2: and there's still communication between the surface world and then

529
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: the depths of the ocean where just someone else is

530
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: exploring out in an unknown, unseen place, and then people

531
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: back in you know, the waking real, you know, whatever

532
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: we call real world, can then talk to that person

533
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: and see what they're discovering. I don't know, I'm sorry,

534
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: I'm having a hard time even like phrasing these things correctly.

535
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 2: But I'm imagining the dreamscape as another world to be explored,

536
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: another reality to be explored.

537
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Yes, like the high heavens, the deep

538
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 3: ink of space, and the ocean and the seas. It

539
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 3: also reminds me of I don't know if there are

540
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 3: any fans of the television series Fringe.

541
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: In the crowd.

542
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 3: Yes, but remember, dude, yeah, I know we are. But

543
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: remember the entangled typewriters. This is a slight spoiler three

544
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: two one. These people and characters and entities are able

545
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 3: to communicate across various planes of existence through putting a

546
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: mirror next to a special kind of typewriter and typing

547
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 3: one thing in their reality and then seeing a message

548
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: typed out on the mirror.

549
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: Oh, it is so cool, so good that show gives

550
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: me frision.

551
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 3: Is excited to meadows on board. We also know that

552
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: depending on how further research works out REM Space and

553
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 3: other startups or initiatives like it, some of which, by

554
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 3: the way, are federally or militarily funded, they may pave

555
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: the way for brand new approaches to things like treating

556
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: PTSD or anxiety, along with some other stuff that we'll

557
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 3: talk about after the next ad break. We do have

558
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 3: to Matt, We've got to say it. Michael Riduga is

559
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 3: the founder and CEO of rem Space, and he is

560
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: pretty ambitious in his statements about it. He says the

561
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 3: follow in multiple PR communicats. Quote yesterday, communicating and dreams

562
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 3: seemed like science fiction. Tomorrow it will be so common

563
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 3: we won't be able to imagine our lives without this technology. Ambitious,

564
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: you know, man's reach must exceed his grasp. Else what's

565
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: a heaven for? And however the old poem goes. But

566
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: also full disclosure, Reduga has made some controversial moves in

567
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: the past. He did put a chip in his own skull.

568
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gave himself brain surgery with a home depot

569
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: drill and it wasn't from home depot, but you know,

570
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 2: a drill that you would use for wood and stuff.

571
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: And then he had to get it removed because you know,

572
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: he put a chip in his own brain at his

573
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: own house, which almost died. Like we admire.

574
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: Well officially he said personal reasons. Yeah, but I think

575
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: being alive as a personal reason ambitious. This man is ambitious.

576
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 3: This man is all to say. When you think about it,

577
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: it's an exciting time to be asleep.

578
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 2: Weird.

579
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: Exciting doesn't always mean good. What if we take a

580
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 3: break for a word from our sponsors here, and then,

581
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 3: as they say on the LA leaguers, we get to

582
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 3: the chicken. I think there's something you and I are

583
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 3: both excited slash terrified to explore.

584
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 4: Let's do it, and we're back.

585
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 3: This is the thing that stayed with us the most

586
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 3: and really informs our exploration tonight, Matt. As you and

587
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 3: I alluded to earlier, the same innovations that allow for

588
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 3: potential anxiety or trauma treatment, the same innovations that allow

589
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: for or potentially better communication between people, also, inevitably, just

590
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 3: like nuclear research, lead us to the dark side, the

591
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: troubling stuff. What if by the same the same methods

592
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 3: used to observe and help people in a dream state.

593
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: What if we could manipulate it, put a thug on

594
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 3: the scale.

595
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 2: What if that scientist instead of saying eight minus six

596
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: said drink core's light.

597
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, exactly. And I loved when we talked about

598
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: this back in twenty twenty one in our Strange News program.

599
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 3: The year before that, in twenty twenty researchers over at MIT,

600
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: which is a kind of good school. They are they're

601
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 3: gonna be so bad. All right, it's fine as school.

602
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: I'm kidding. Oh my gosh, they're gonna kill us anyway.

603
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 3: Media they have a thing called Media Lab Fluid Interfaces.

604
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 3: This is a group that created something called targeted dream

605
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: Incubation or TDI. The technology or the approach, the methodology

606
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 3: they deploy is new, but the concept isn't. You can

607
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 3: read some great, some great work by a journalist named

608
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 3: Sophia Motino about this, writing for Science and she just

609
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: describes the following. You know, dream incubation is, in my opinion,

610
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: something familiar to anybody who's played a video game too

611
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 3: long before bed. It's where images sounds, repetitive, sensory cues

612
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 3: shape the content of the hallucinations you have in your

613
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 3: sleeping state. And Sophia goes on to note this is

614
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 3: an ancient people throughout history had rituals techniques to try

615
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 3: to change the content of your dreams. That's why in

616
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: the Western world, that's why people pray before bedtime, you

617
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Let God shepherd me through the

618
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: night and things like that.

619
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's a cool it's one of the reasons people

620
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 2: do a lot of research before bed, meditate, often create art,

621
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: write songs. I mean, some of the things that you

622
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: do right before bed tend to find their way into

623
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: your dreams, at least most vividly. Yeah.

624
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that makes sense because if we encounter a

625
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: sort of sedimentary accretion theory of stimulus before you leave

626
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 3: the waking world, then you could argue that the stuff

627
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 3: at the top, the soil at the top, is going

628
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 3: to be the things that the shovel hits first.

629
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 2: Right or last. It could be either right, and then

630
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: it just depends on we don't really know if the

631
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: brain goes from the bottom up like what we learned today, Okay,

632
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: going from the bottom up to the top of the thing.

633
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 2: The last thing you learn or does it start from

634
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: the top, as you're saying, go down.

635
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 3: And we don't know whether certain let's call them elements.

636
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: I'm loving this analogy, by the way, may have more weight, right,

637
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 3: and metaphorical weight because of the variables of previous holes

638
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 3: dug right, previous shovels, things that this is where we

639
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 3: enter recurrent content. Right. The nightmares that haunt you are

640
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 3: the We're just gonna let that one go.

641
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 2: It's just your brain going, oh crap. We really haven't

642
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 2: dealt with that yet. We're trying to, but we can't.

643
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we know that people would, like you said, Matt,

644
00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: people would meditate, People might do a creative act like journaling, writing, sculpting, painting, sketching, praying,

645
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 3: of course, And sorry, I got that wrong. I'm not

646
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 3: an expert on the Christianity stuff. It's now I lay

647
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 3: me down to sleep, not God shepherd me through the night.

648
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 3: I think that's a different religion. It's now I lay

649
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 3: me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul

650
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 3: to keep I.

651
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: Mean that's one of the Yeah, that's one of the prayers.

652
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 2: There's so many, dude.

653
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 3: What's the cool one?

654
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: Uh me this night? No, I don't know.

655
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 3: To the glorious dead and also me falling asleep on

656
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 3: the couch watching Police Academy five.

657
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 2: You hold the septa, we hold the key. You are

658
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 2: the devil, we are an e. I think that's how

659
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 2: it goes.

660
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 3: That's amazing and that's a tribute. Yeah, So shout out

661
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: to the fellow nerds who enjoyed that. Oh, Noel would

662
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 3: have had chuckle at that too. So all right. People

663
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: would also use drugs, right, And this we see reflected

664
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 3: in things like the concept of sipping a nightcap or

665
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 3: the an alcoholic beverage before bed, or for instance, people

666
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: who ingest cannabis right, or take any number of pill medications,

667
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 3: et cetera. Yes, yes, exactly. Which what an amazing word, right.

668
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 3: It sounds like it does something. It does it does something,

669
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 3: but it sounds like it's a real word, and it's

670
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 3: very much not a real word.

671
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: Sleep drive to Kroger. That's what it does.

672
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 3: Right. Oh and then if you ever misbehave on social media,

673
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 3: blame it on the ambient anyway. So TDI targeted dream incubation.

674
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 3: It is the in this sense before the thing we're

675
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 3: about to get into. It is the combination of an

676
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 3: app and a wearable sleep tracking sensor device. Things that

677
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: you and I were I think both contemplating for a while.

678
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: Did you ever pull the trigger on that, like the

679
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,399
Speaker 3: like the lucid dream goggle thing.

680
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: Oh no, I never, I never tried it. I would

681
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: love to, though, I would really really like to do that.

682
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 3: It'd be interesting. If you want to read more about this, folks,

683
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 3: check out the paper that the people at MIT. I'm laughing, Dylan,

684
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 3: so as a joke that the check out the paper

685
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 3: the people at MIT wrote called dormio a targeted dream

686
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 3: incubation device. So yes, we talked about the good stuff.

687
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 3: The technology in this paper can plausibly help address issues

688
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 3: by redirecting your dreaming mind, getting you to dwell on

689
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 3: something else. When it turns out, the world of dream

690
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: research it includes some potential nightmares all its own.

691
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 2: All right.

692
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: So in step with all of this related interesting inspirational

693
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: research we've been exploring, multiple organizations are looking into the

694
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: concept of engineering dreams not for mental health, but instead

695
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: to sell you stuff. And Matt, I don't know which

696
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 3: where do we start unpacking this. What's the one that

697
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 3: stood out the most to you?

698
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: The stuff that's one of the most was the cores

699
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: light or the cores, mulsen, cores, whatever it is. The

700
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: companies that wanted it was, look, we have to put

701
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 2: this out there. It was part of a commercial campaign. Yesay,

702
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: so what we're telling you was kind of happening, but

703
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 2: it was also a tongue in cheek commercial thing. And

704
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: it's hard to know where the line is between what

705
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: the company actually wanted to do and then what they

706
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 2: wanted to do just to sell more of their product.

707
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 3: And of the eighteen people that we're going to reference

708
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 3: in the study, all consented to participate with advanced knowledge

709
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 3: of what was happening, and twelve were paid actors.

710
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely, So let's just get into what I This

711
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: is what I recall from our previous discussion. The hope

712
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: that at least Cores had was that if they played

713
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 2: sounds of nature of certain types of water, of a

714
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 2: chili landscape, the imagery of mountains and clouds and all

715
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 2: of these things, that it would it would make the user,

716
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: let's say, the experiencer in the dream state, think of cores,

717
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 2: tap the rockies, cores, ice cold, forged in ice. You know,

718
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: all of these concepts that have been a part of

719
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:55,439
Speaker 2: the cores mythos thinking of these things would have them

720
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: want and desire cores.

721
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 3: Cours the beers so good, you can drink it with your.

722
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 2: Mouth, that's right, that's right. Yeah. But but yeah, that

723
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: was interesting to me. The concept of not directly stating

724
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: within somebody's dream and you know, pumping in audio that

725
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: says drink more, corese drink more. Course, it was let's

726
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: give them the experience of the things that they associate

727
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 2: positively with our product. Maybe they will then purchase.

728
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 3: It right, right, And they had to be quite careful

729
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 3: with the idea of, as you're saying, explicitly telling people

730
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 3: to go buy something right. They wanted to avoid that

731
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 3: part that.

732
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: Would fall under subliminal messaging and a bunch of other

733
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 2: things that would probably get sticky legal wise. This is

734
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 2: a this is more fun science.

735
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 3: This is more look at us, fellow humans. We're in corporation,

736
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: but we're cool. We're in fact, we're not cool. We're cores.

737
00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 3: So TDI targeted dream incubation. Like you said, it's you

738
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 3: could call it. We could call it an ad campaign

739
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 3: or ad stunt. They might call it or an activation.

740
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 3: Heaven forfend it's the twenty twenty one Super Bowl, right,

741
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:16,479
Speaker 3: one of the most pivotal moments in advertising year over year.

742
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 3: So there are one hundred almost one hundred million people

743
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 3: watching the super Bowl one way or another. Uh, And

744
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 3: they wanted to alter cores, wanted to alter dreams of

745
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 3: viewers the night before the game. They wanted them to

746
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 3: dream about cores and then buy corps while they're watching

747
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 3: the Super Bowl the next day. That's the idea, that's

748
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 3: what they're They're already selling the idea, right, And this

749
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 3: was I love that you pointed out. It's already kind

750
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 3: of a a story, right, it's a story we're telling.

751
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: And even you know. The interesting thing and I'm sure

752
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 3: they talked about this. The interesting thing is it increases

753
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 3: visibility enough just the reporting about this that people are

754
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 3: gonna be thinking, of course, even if they're not one

755
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 3: of the eighteen people who participated in this study.

756
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little weird. It feels like a crambling production.

757
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, Oh my gosh, it is a crambling production.

758
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 3: Detroiters is so good. Please check it out, bolts and

759
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 3: join us and pushing for a season three please? Yeah,

760
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: and then we have no we we have a lot

761
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 3: of examples from the world of gaming. Xbox U use

762
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 3: TDI in what you could arguably calls another ad stunt

763
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 3: to have pro gamers primed to dream of their favorite

764
00:51:53,160 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 3: video games, PlayStation latched onto something we've already known about, Tetris.

765
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: Uh.

766
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 3: They said, we can create a Tetris game based on

767
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 3: this sleep study. And the study shows that if you

768
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 3: play enough Tetris, you dream about Tetris. And I think

769
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 3: we've all been there at one point or another.

770
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: Well, Scientific American has talked about that, that Tetris study dreams. Yeah, like,

771
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 2: why are there test? Why do we all have Tetris dreams?

772
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: What's going on?

773
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can go to science dot org. The study

774
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 3: that launched one thousand ships comes out in October of

775
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 3: two thousand, replaying the game Hypnagogic Images in normals and amnesiacs. Okay,

776
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 3: the title is something we're going to move past, but

777
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 3: but it is. It is an experience, right, and it

778
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 3: shows us a lot about how dream incubation can work

779
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 3: because Tetris just has you know, a small set of

780
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 3: shapes that move in a predictable pattern, and you are

781
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: participating in that pattern. You are programming yourself to experience

782
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 3: a routine yet interactive series of stimuli.

783
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 2: See. The next thing is, can we alter perception within

784
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 2: those Tetris dreams so that we become each individual piece

785
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: as we plunge faster and faster down towards whatever shape

786
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: we're becoming and making interesting.

787
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,479
Speaker 3: I like it the adult argument there, Yes, Tetris. We're

788
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 3: hanging out later if you guys want to kick it.

789
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 3: We know that the vice president of marketing at Mulson

790
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 3: Coors again is back a few years ago, praised this

791
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 3: beverage company's strategy and said, this is never before seeing

792
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 3: form of advertising. I don't know why. It sounds like

793
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 3: a British villain, but agreed with the VP at course,

794
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 3: and they also said, not only have we never seed

795
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 3: this before, we never want to see it again.

796
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, Well, imagine imagine what happens if all

797
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 2: of us, at some point in the near future have

798
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: access to our dream world via some app, via some

799
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: device that was pretty ubiquitous, and it's just something that

800
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: becomes popular and now we're all doing it. Imagine if

801
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 2: those dreams can be invaded with ad space, right, yeah,

802
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 2: what happens?

803
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 3: Right in twenty twenty one a group of around forty

804
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 3: real life honorologists dream researchers. They got so concerned about

805
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 3: this that they penned an open letter calling, most importantly

806
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 3: for regulation of what they see as an emergent industry.

807
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: You know, and as you were saying, Matt, They're concerns

808
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 3: are pretty valid. The idea is, Look, human civilization is

809
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 3: already monitored at a much more invasive level than at

810
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 3: any other point in history. So dreams and your inner

811
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 3: thoughts for now remain the last sacrisanct areas, the last

812
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 3: truly private places. And we know external stimuli like sound, smells, lights, speech,

813
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 3: that can affect what you're dreaming about, for example, falling

814
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 3: asleep while watching a movie or listening to your favorite podcast.

815
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,720
Speaker 3: A lot of people are thoroughly creeped out by having

816
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 3: some external entity seek to not just infiltrate, but to

817
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 3: control your dream state, even if only briefly, even with

818
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 3: the best of intentions. This is my house, you know

819
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 3: what I mean. We don't take walk ins.

820
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: We already know that trice a Lawrence can get in

821
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 2: there without us knowing. So you know, if we can

822
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 2: avoid them, probably not, but we could probably legislate out

823
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 2: of letting. I don't know, Microsoft hang out in our

824
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 2: brains and tell us to buy things right?

825
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 3: Right? Right? Is there a world with no walls to face?

826
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 3: Just to keep going with that?

827
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 2: Three?

828
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 3: Okay, so we know we want to give a shout

829
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 3: out to a cognitive scientist, Adam Harr. Adam Harr points

830
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 3: out he was a participant in this open letter and

831
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 3: he speaks to some of our concerns. He points out

832
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 3: the second big issue with dream advertising is that quote

833
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: people are particularly vulnerable to suggestion when they are asleep.

834
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 3: He also, he's not some guy outside of a deli

835
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 3: that they asked about this. He might have been outside

836
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,439
Speaker 3: of a deli. But before he did any of that,

837
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 3: he invented a glove that helps with dream targeting. It

838
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 3: helps to steer people towards specific subjects in certain stages

839
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 3: of the sleep cycle. And to your point, Matt, by

840
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, this guy had already been contacted over

841
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 3: a number of years by Microsoft, other giant corporations, and

842
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 3: oddly enough, to airlines, two separate airlines. They wanted him

843
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 3: to help them work on dream incubation. He was not

844
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 3: super opposed to this. It's fascinating research he's a brilliant person,

845
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 3: but he is a moral person such that he feels

846
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 3: uncomfortable monetizing this technology and his work for the purpose

847
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 3: of advertisements. I mean, let's think about it this way.

848
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 3: You know, you're listening if you're awake, and you and

849
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 3: Matt and Dylan and myself are waking brains have all

850
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 3: these tricks and barriers that allow for things like skepticism,

851
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: analysis and critical thought. You know, like Matt, when you

852
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 3: hear a commercial these days, do you immediately say, crap,

853
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:07,959
Speaker 3: I have to buy this now?

854
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say Google, buy me that thing.

855
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 3: That's why you have so many that things.

856
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're everywhere.

857
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 3: Thing one, thing, two. There are more boxes, boxes of

858
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 3: things and stuff. So this is a mission critical point

859
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 3: because those same processes are processes whatever you prefer. They

860
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 3: don't work the same way when you're asleep. So we

861
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 3: could hear you could hear us while you're awake saying

862
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 3: something like, behold the lush, exotic coast of Belgium, brought

863
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 3: to you by Illumination Global Unlimited. Buy a ticket today.

864
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 3: You could hear that over and over while you're awake,

865
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: and it's going to give you pause because you know, Belgium.

866
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 3: Great Belgium is a fantastic place. It is not known

867
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 3: for its lush, exotic coast That makes no sense.

868
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: But if you they're there, are people gonna wake up

869
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 2: and they're going to be thinking about that. I go

870
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: to Belgium, but I want to go to the beach.

871
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 3: Because it's your partner is going, why are we going

872
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 3: to Belgium? And you're like the lush, exotic coastline. But

873
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's the fear, right. This technology is

874
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: not meant to cause harm. But how could dream incubation

875
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 3: affect folks who have addictions to gambling or drugs or

876
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 3: you know whatever compulsive behavior. If they're asleep, they don't

877
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 3: have the ability to remove themselves from that core's advertisement,

878
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 3: and they don't have the ability to prevent exposure to

879
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 3: known triggers. You know, like all of a sudden, I'm

880
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 3: asleep and all of a sudden, I have an invasive

881
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 3: dream about Blackjack.

882
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, casino.

883
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 3: Right, This stake's native advertising to a new level. I

884
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 3: know we're running along, let's maybe not. What do you say,

885
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 3: can we walk a little further into the dark?

886
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, let's go the darkness of your dreams

887
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: and our dreams. To be sure, what about other interfaces

888
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 2: that we haven't thought about, that haven't been invented yet.

889
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 2: Things Again, like we're talking about some device, some small

890
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 2: probably a teeny tiny little thing that's ergonomic for your

891
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: head when you wear it, and it's gonna be comfortable

892
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 2: at night, and you're gonna want to wear it because

893
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: it's gonna make you sleep better. It's gonna be nice.

894
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 3: How can you sleep without it? Is what they're hoping,

895
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 3: you ask yourself after about four months?

896
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, then what happens when they come out with

897
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,479
Speaker 2: a version that, oh, well, we can actually just implant this. Now,

898
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 2: you can just get this in your brain the way

899
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: our friend did with his drill, except it'll be in

900
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 2: a safe but it'll be in a safe surgical environment.

901
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 3: Yes, we're calling it trepanation. Plus. It's part of your

902
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 3: it's part of your US citizenship plus membership. Imagine a world.

903
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 3: I know it sounds like we're being weird, but imagine

904
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 3: a world where giant tech companies like Microsoft, Alphabet, Meta, Amazon,

905
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 3: they create sleep technology that becomes normalized. And maybe what

906
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 3: if it to your point about everybody wearing one, what

907
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 3: if it becomes another aspect of social media. Like in

908
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 3: their heyday, everybody had to have a TikTok or a

909
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 3: Facebook account, so you are expected to do this, and

910
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 3: now you can pay extra to avoid some ads, and

911
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: now these corporations who own the platform have a gargantuan

912
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 3: new revenue stream. One of the dumbest examples. Okay, everybody

913
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 3: has their micro sleep or their metasoft or whatever, and

914
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 3: now they are telling advertisers, we can get into people's

915
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 3: dreams for you. If you are Mattel or Lago, how

916
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 3: much are you going to pay for literal dream ad

917
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 3: space across a given demographic right before Christmas?

918
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:18,439
Speaker 2: Especially for kids? How young before you get an implant? Yeah,

919
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: listen to tomorrow's Monsters. That's a show created by Dan

920
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 2: Bush and it is about this very thing. It's an

921
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 2: exploration of this concept of like sleep and how can

922
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 2: we capture sleep.

923
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 3: Yes, I remember that I'm a fan of Dan on

924
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 3: a personal level, and Matt, you and he have worked

925
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 3: together for a while. We do have another this is

926
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 3: a tangent, but we have another new show by Dan

927
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 3: and team that we'd love to recommend.

928
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, listen to a Live again right now. Alive again.

929
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 2: Check it out. It's all about, well, it's all about

930
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 2: a lot of things, but mostly it's near death experiences

931
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 2: and what consciousness does when it's outside of this reality

932
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 2: that we all.

933
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 3: Experience another brief hypnogogic experience right the line between life

934
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 3: and death. And just like dreams, emerging from an NDE

935
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 3: has also a tremendous effect on individual lives and on

936
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 3: the course of human history. Honestly, this all goes in

937
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 3: so many directions. We also know. Another concern for people

938
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 3: are against dream incubation is the idea that all of

939
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:40,959
Speaker 3: this tech will inevitably create another revenue stream by harvesting

940
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 3: the user data sleep patterns, brain activity, behavior before, after,

941
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 3: and during sleep. And this sounds sci fi, but we

942
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 3: have to remember this occurs in step with previously established

943
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 3: technology like the breakthrough back in twenty thirteen where Japanese

944
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 3: researchers leveraged MRI scans to go into the minds of

945
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 3: sleeping people and generate like printouts of the images they

946
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 3: saw while they slumbered.

947
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 2: That's a big note things.

948
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 3: Yeah that's past. Yeah for me that.

949
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 2: I really don't I honestly don't even really want to know.

950
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 2: Sometimes where my jams go.

951
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 3: I'll draw it myself. If it's that important, I will,

952
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 3: you know, and I respect the science. It is amazing.

953
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 3: These are brilliant, well intentioned people. But it might be

954
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 3: a rubicon too far. You know, dreams are baffling, they're inspiring,

955
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 3: they're joyous, they're terrifying, they're amazing. We are on the

956
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 3: cusp of a new paradigm where again, if you want

957
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 3: to be optimistic about it, the bleeding edge of science

958
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 3: is leading us to deeper nize spiritual questions about the

959
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 3: nature of consciousness and the thing called the soul and

960
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 3: how it experiences it health or you're gonna wake up

961
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 3: thinking I can't believe I could get fifteen percent off

962
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 3: a cheeseburger.

963
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 2: Today, zero percent down on that new Toyota.

964
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 3: Holy kra hon hon, wake up, you were talking in

965
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 3: your sleep again. Oh what was it about. It's about

966
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 3: the great deals for the Toyota Camry.

967
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you said. Honda Odyssey has their top

968
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 2: line models on sale this month.

969
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:32,439
Speaker 3: It's perfect for the lush, exotic coast of Belgium. We

970
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 3: have to go. Tell us, folks, would you trade off

971
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 3: your privacy and the secrets of your dream state. If so,

972
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 3: what would be your price? If not, tell us why not?

973
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 3: For a lot of us, We have to realize this

974
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 3: is the stuff we don't want them to know. So

975
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 3: let us know your thoughts so you can find us

976
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 3: online conspiracy stuff, conspiracy stuff, show any derivation thereof on

977
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 3: the social meat you might sip. You can also pop

978
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 3: by our email address or just give us a call

979
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 3: on our telephone number.

980
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three st DWYTK. It's

981
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 2: a voicemail system. When you call in, give yourself a

982
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know in the message if

983
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

984
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 2: If you've got more to say, they can fit in

985
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 2: a three minute voicemail. Maybe you've got links, maybe you've

986
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 2: got attachments. Why don't you send us a good old

987
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

988
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

989
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

990
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 3: writes back, So get hypnagogic. Join us in this liminal

991
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 3: state conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

992
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

993
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

994
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.