WEBVTT - Rory Kennedy Puts The Spotlight on Boeing 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.600 Hey, it's Alec. We all love true crime podcasts, but 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.920 perhaps you're looking for something a little different, less murder, 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.680 more intrigue. I invite you to check out a new 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:17.000 podcast I just released called Art Fraud. It's the true 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.919 story of one of New York City's oldest and most 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.400 trusted galleries dealing in world class art, and how its 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:27.320 doors would close forever in the wake of an unprecedented scandal. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:33.960 The art market is ripe for cons because it's inherently subjective. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.479 I just couldn't even look at it because it was 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:44.000 so garish and so not by Rothcoe. We're talking about 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.479 eighty million dollars in fake paintings, or more precisely, forgeries. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.239 All episodes of Art Fraud are available right now. Okay, 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:59.480 here's our show. This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.920 to Here's the Thing from My Heart Radio. My guest 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:08.919 today comes from the most legendary of American families. Rory 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.160 Kennedy is the youngest daughter of Senator Robert F. Kennedy 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.560 and the niece of President John F. Kennedy. But as 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.000 she will tell us during our conversation, she's also one 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:24.440 of the great Kennedy Women. Instead of following her forebearers 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.240 into law or politics, Kennedy has made a name for 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.560 herself as a documentary filmmaker. Her films feature a wide 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:37.160 range of subjects, from surfing legend Laird Hamilton's to challenging 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:42.440 issues like poverty, addiction, and mental illness. In her current film, 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:48.040 She's tackling corporate corruption. That film, Downfall, the case against Boeing, 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.840 investigates the circumstances that led to two tragic passenger jet 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:57.320 crashes in two thousand eighteen and nineteen. Rory Kennedy and 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.600 I talk about her remarkable upbringing and how the people 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:05.520 she's encountered in her life have influenced her trajectory. I 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:10.000 think it's hard to detach anybody from how they grew up, right, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.840 I Mean, it's such an influence and impact on who 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.480 you become. And certainly that was the case with me. 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.160 I grew up, you know, the youngest of eleven and 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:26.679 in obviously a very political family, and I was impacted 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.960 by that. I mean I was also surrounded, my mother 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:34.320 made a point of this by really extraordinary role models, 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.640 you know, and we had such a the honor of 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.760 meeting whether it was you know, presidents or congressman and 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:47.080 senators or people like Nelson Mitndela and Desmond Tutu, you 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.600 know who who were in our homes, and also some 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:56.160 of the great athletes and you know NASA astronauts. I mean, so, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.960 I think it was a life where we were surround 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.800 did by people who created a sense of aspiration and 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.080 to try to make the world a bit of a 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.840 better place now. But would you say, though that, as 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:15.359 you're making a film, do you have protocols, rules, tenants, 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.400 whatever word you want to use while you sit there 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.040 and say that's not something I'm going to do that's 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.720 influenced by the way your family has been treated. If 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.040 you're making a film and that's some aspect of a story, 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:29.280 there's a very kind of scandalizing, tawdry, shy away from that. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.119 Because the way you guys have been attacked from time 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.760 to time. I think I have certain sensitivities. For example, 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:40.080 with downfall, the case against Boeing, there's three forty six 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.600 people who died, and there are the family members who 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.640 are related to those people, some of whom we talked 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.960 to in our film, And I was definitely thinking, well, 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.160 how is it going to be for these folks to 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.080 watch this film, right, And I've had to see scenes 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.360 over and over again that play themselves out on the 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.000 news that are are very upsetting to watch about my 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:06.520 family dying right and being killed and and I didn't 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.640 want to subject them to that. But I also wanted 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.840 to make a film that was impactful. We do c 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.920 g I recreations of what it was like to be 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.240 in the cockpit so that we could really help people 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.440 understand the perspective of the pilots in these planes and 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.240 what they were struggling with with the umkest system. And 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.400 you know, but I thought, how are these folks going 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.599 to watch this film? So when I sent the film 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.320 to them before it's coming out, I highlighted all the 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.680 sections that I thought would be hard for them to watch, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.920 so that they could be aware of that and go 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.680 into it and decide to watch those sections or not. So, 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.240 you know, maybe I have some sensitivity and moments like that. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.520 I think the types of films I choose generally tend 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.560 to be political in nature and tend to you know, 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.599 I hope when people watch these films, whether it's this 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.000 or a film about Vietnam The Final Days of the 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:08.760 war film about Abu Grabe, that we learned from them, 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:13.240 and we learned from watching these stories and and hopefully 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.279 make better choices moving forward. Right. So, I think the 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.240 choices of the films I make are certainly impacted by 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.479 the family I grew up in. It's interesting that you 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.800 mentioned that. And this is only tangential, but remember being 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.600 invited years ago Clinton was in the White House. I 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.880 was invited to the White House to a screening of 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.640 the movie The Paper by Ronnie Howard, and I'm sitting 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:36.599 in a seat in the theater and the woman to 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.400 my right, who's sitting next to me, A gun goes 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.839 off in the middle of the film, and that woman 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.440 grabbed my arm and gasped this huge gasp when the 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.960 gun went off. It was your mom, right, So you 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:53.200 know there's me to this day. It's she's not prepared 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.320 for that. Those sounds. Yeah, So there's trauma related to 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.080 that for sure. Now to get to the film. So 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.839 I watched this film, obviously, and I was mesmerized. Congratulations, 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.200 by the way, I mean, you came to the Hampton's 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.440 Film Festival. Every year a film of yours comes and 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.760 we all look atach other We're like, can we really 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:16.240 invite her again? We were bringing Rory out to Easthampton again. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.160 I mean is it enough? And I mean how much 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.680 more can we shine her up here? But we loved 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.600 your film about your mom. We're gonna get to that later. 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.640 Loved Last Days of Vietnam. That was a great I'm 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.480 not just saying this, that's a great movie. Great movie 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.880 really just you what film can do and the spirit 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.599 of what's happening and understanding that those moments that you 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.640 did a great job. Now, this film made me angry. 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.560 This film. I was pissed off because only one guy 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.280 I think, I think is criminally charged, correct, that's correct, 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.880 and that we identify that person, Mark Forkner, And he 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.360 was in charge of what at Boing. He was a pilot, 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.200 a test pilot, and he was you know, he really 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.760 wasn't responsible for what up end and a lot of 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.440 people feel like he was scapegoaded because he was really 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.000 in charge of making sure, you know, he was testing 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:13.160 the plane. And then he played a role in keeping 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.640 the m cast system away from the regulators and that's 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.280 documented and there's proof of that, and so they followed 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.840 up with that. But you know, Congressman de Fasio, for example, 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:29.640 led the congressional investigation into what happened, the biggest investigation 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.960 the Infrastructure and Transportation Committee's history, and he concluded that 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.680 this is was really top down right, that the top 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:42.600 group in management at Boeing was very aware of the 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.840 m CAST system, that there was a concerted effort to 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:50.720 keep the system away from the regulators, to hide the system, 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.480 and to cut corners along the way, and that there 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.120 was you know, it was a culture of concealment, is 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.000 what he calls it. So I think that there are 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.800 a lot of people who feel like the folks who 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:07.000 are most responsible have yet to be held accountable, and 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.400 there's been no criminal charges, and you know, Muhlinberg walked 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.680 away with the head of Bowing, the head of Bowing 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.600 sixty two million dollars. So you know, I think after 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.520 you've kind of watched the film and really understand all 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.360 the decisions that the management of Boeing made along the 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:30.640 way to prioritize profit over safety, that you know, when 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.960 you understand the depths of those choices, that I think 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.560 many people like you are outraged. Well for people I 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.520 don't want to, I want them to see the film obviously, 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.160 but I want to give them just a taste of 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.320 so Boeing wants to create. I'll let you fill in 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.000 the blanks. So they want to create a fleet. They're 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.920 losing market share, they're getting their hat handed to them 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.520 by air Bus. Things are not looking good for Boeing, 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.000 who had been dominant around the world for decades. And 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.360 then and then we're the pride of not to Seattle 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.240 with the United States. They've Asian industry, and then the 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.120 things start to go down from so they want to 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.160 play catchup and they want to produce a lower cost, 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.400 more fuel efficient I think was the goal of the 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.960 seven max. Got to get the word max in there. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.880 The seven thirty seven fuel efficiency was the goal. And 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:17.599 then a part of this was the development of this 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.000 system which was to help to so they don't make 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.240 too steep a climb. A system takes over the plane 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.400 and lowers the nose of the plane and forces the 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.680 plane down, but doesn't shut off. It forces the nose 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.120 of the plane down straight into the ground. Correct, Well, yeah, 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.680 that's correct. There was There were concerned at a certain 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.880 angle that the plane would stall, and so they instead 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.120 of changing the kind of structure of the plane and 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.679 moving the engines and whatnot. They decided to fix it 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:50.679 with a computer system, again in an effort to save money, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:55.360 it seems, and that computer system was connected to one 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.600 sensor on the side of the airplane, like a weather vane. 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.880 And so if that sensor was damage, which happens off 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.719 and gets hit by bird, something happens to it, it 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.839 would send and this is what happened, erroneous information to 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.800 the computer system. So it would tell the computer system 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.400 that the plane was at a certain angle and you 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.080 needed to push the nose down. But it wasn't at 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.360 that angle. It was, you know, more at a flat angle. 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.400 And not only would it push the nose of the 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.400 plane down, but it would do it over and over 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.560 and over again. Probably the most powering details you covered 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.079 the film is and the pilots were not told about 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.240 the installation of this system, that's correct. It's you know, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.839 prior to the Line Air crash, which was the the 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:46.720 first crash, the pilots were completely unaware that this system 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.240 was even on the airplane, which was also kind of 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:54.559 flew in the face of what had been the normal 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:59.560 relationship between Bowing and pilots, which was to really educate 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.760 for pilots about everything. Training, you know, make them fully 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.439 equipped to handle any situation that would happen. But in 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.800 this case, they in an effort to really keep this 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:15.280 from regulators. Really, what was motivating them is that if 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.079 they have a totally new system on the airplane, then 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.120 they have to train pilots. And if they have to 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.640 train pilots, it costs them a million dollars per an aircraft, 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.160 you know, on average to train these pilots. So they 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.360 wanted to again it seems, save the money. And so 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.120 instead of making people aware that this system was on 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.280 the airplane, they made a concerted effort to We're not 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.000 even gonna tell you about this machine we've installed, which, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.760 if it behaves badly, is going to crash the plane. 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.640 And there's a manual override that they might have been 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.040 able to activate. They could have gotten out of it. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:54.720 I guess if that they if they had had the training. 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.440 If they had had the training, except what we also 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.280 discover and case in the course of this film is 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:07.160 a document that came out in It's called a coordination 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:11.040 sheet that shows that if something went wrong with the system, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.080 that the pilots would need to fix it. Within ten seconds. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.439 Otherwise the power of the MCT system would overtake them 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.679 if they didn't do it in ten seconds, and the 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:26.800 results would be catastrophic. And catastrophic in airplane language means 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.920 the plane will crash and everybody will die. So you know, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.199 even if the pilots right. So in the second instance, 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.920 in the Ethiopian airplane crash, the pilots were aware of 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.360 the system, they did everything right, they did what they 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.920 were told to do, and the plane still crashed. So 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.959 you know, if you don't and what you have to 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.880 also remember, and this is why we also created the 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.360 kind of the c g I recreation of what happens 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.760 in that cockpit because there's this cacophony of sounds and 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.360 error alerts that are all contradict geting each other that 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:05.640 the pilots are trying to understand and navigate and figure out. Okay, 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.080 this is saying where you know, the altitude is in disagreement, 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.640 that air speed is in disagreement, that the all systems 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.439 alert is on, the stick shaker is going, there's all 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.599 of these alerts coming at them, and then with that 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.160 they have to navigate. Okay, Well, what this all means 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.920 is that I need to do these steps within ten seconds, 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.640 and otherwise this plane is going to crash. I mean, 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.319 I don't want to go on a plane that is 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.959 putting pilots in that position. I don't want to put 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.839 my children or my people whose job who would give 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.959 anything to save the lives of their passengers. Think of 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.319 something more unimaginable than to be on the in the 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.000 cockpit of a plane and the plane is behaving and 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.679 not in some anomalous way. You see yourself hurtling towards 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.360 the ground. It's at nine eleven. You're the plane is 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.280 going into the ground and you're sitting there thinking what 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.960 can you don't and you don't know what to do? Right, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.520 It's completely know maybe they're eating a turkey sandwich. You know, 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.320 it does not like you're not. They're sitting there, everything 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.520 on total alert for the entire plane ride. Before we 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.320 get into the macro of your filmmaking, one more thing, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.520 I think you make it clear in the film, the 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.000 idea that this is a different Bowing. At this point, 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.080 I thought it was fascinating how you talk about the 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.280 move to Chicago. They moved the headquarters to Chicago for 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.040 the purposes of distancing themselves from the influence, and I 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.080 though it was well thought. The influence was good. It 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.560 was a nice battery. It was a nice exchange between 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:35.680 Union's management, design and technology and the corporate and these 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.240 guys like, no, no, no, we we don't want to 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.120 be too close to those guys in Seattle. So we're 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.320 gonna move to Chicago so we can make our decisions 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.760 in this bubble in Chicago. And it seems like what 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:50.760 was a great company, that rare, I mean, multibillion dollar enterprise. 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.200 It made big, expensive things that they were very proud of, 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.400 that defined the city, and everything moves to Chicago, and 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.520 it seems like that's part of the problem. It was 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.080 once the that merger was made and they moved to Chicago, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.800 that cost cutting thing becomes primary. I think that's right, 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.720 you know. I think like you, I love Boeing and 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.160 what Boeing stood for in this country, and you know 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.600 the history of Bowing, and we really celebrate that in 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:19.640 the film because it's been an extraordinary company for decades. 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.600 You know, it helped us get out of World War Two, 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.840 It helped build the fighter jets to win that war. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.200 It helped get us to the moon with my uncle Jack. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.720 I mean, they helped build those engines and the rocket ships. 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.480 They helped people be able to travel all over the 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.640 world for the first time, you know, with the seven 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:43.600 forty seven, an extraordinary accomplishment. So we wanted to celebrate that. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.360 And during those very early years and for many decades, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.160 Boeing did one thing, which was to say, we're going 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:56.240 to prioritize excellence and safety and then the profits will follow. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.840 We're going to make the best planes possible, we're gonna innovate, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.400 we're going to do new things, and we're going to 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.520 think to the future. And then it changed hands, taken 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:11.000 over really. I mean, one person we interviewed said somehow 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.480 McDonald douglas bought Bowing with Boeing's money and the McDonald 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.800 douglas people were put in charge, and they had a 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.160 very different business model, which was very Wall Street focused 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.800 and quarterly earnings, you know, And so they've made a 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.960 series of decision corporate decisions to cut back on personnel 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:36.000 whose whose job it was to ensure safety and put 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.560 pressure on the folks who were building the planes to 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.600 build them quicker and faster. And when people would complain 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:49.840 about safety, that slows that process down documentary filmmaker Rory Kennedy. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.280 If you enjoy conversations about the making of documentary films, 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.320 check out my episode with British filmmaker Lucy Walker. Her 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.880 documentary Bring Your Own Gaide is an in depth look 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.639 at California wildfires and their effect on local residents. What 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.800 I want to understand is, well, how are we stopping 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.240 it and why are people living in these areas and 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.000 building these houses that burn over and over and over again. 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.960 Could we do better? So you would think that when 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.760 people look at developing an area for housing, they would 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:27.040 think about far safety, but nobody's actually thinking about what 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:28.879 are they going to be able to ensure these homes 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.720 and who's going to pay if these homes burned down. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.639 To hear more of my conversation with Lucy Walker, go 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.359 to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Rory 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.359 Kennedy and I discussed the filmmakers who have influenced her work. 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.760 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.800 Filmmaker Rory Kennedy has made more than forty documentaries. Her 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.560 work has earned an Emmy and several OSCAR nominations along 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.280 the way, I wanted her to share some of her 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:14.440 process as a filmmaker. Well, you know, different people and 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.280 companies work in different ways. I'm very hands on as 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.920 a filmmaker, and I you know, I love to be 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.480 doing all the interviews and being in the edit room, 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.320 and so I don't take on a huge number of 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.120 projects at any given time. And usually when I decide 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.280 that I really want to do a particular project, I 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.760 really try to make it happen. I was really committed. 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.520 I felt like this story was so important, the Downfall story. 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.120 I think, like so many other people, I witnessed these 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.879 two airplanes crashing within five months of each other, the 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:52.560 exact same aircraft. Three forty six people died, and you know, I, 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.000 like so many other people, fly right, And I felt 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.840 like I want to know what happened, who knew what when, 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.959 who is responsible for this? And I want to make 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.800 sure that something like this doesn't happen again. But I 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.760 also felt that, you know, during the last decades that 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:17.800 America has been really prioritizing corporate interests, right, And so 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.320 I think this film, I think this film I hope 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:28.680 rises to something that's not just about these crashes, which 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.680 is you know, as meaningful as it gets, but I 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.480 think it touches on something else, which is the need 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:41.960 to regulate, the need to balance out corporate interests making money, 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.440 making money, making money, and the need to balance that 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.119 with public interests. Right, And we've seen corporations like going 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:54.119 balances for many decades and do fantastically well. And I 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:58.240 think that when that gets out of balance, it hurts everybody. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.600 So when you see someone like the fi Ausio, the 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:02.560 head of the committee, the guy that was the leading 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:04.679 light there in the Congress, did he have as much 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:09.040 integrity overall as it appears to be on screens? Fantastic 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:10.920 because because you know as well as I do, you 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.440 know where are people in government who care enough and 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.480 they want to fight the way we're going? Like like 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.440 Boeing was a company, you said, well, you understand, you 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.480 want people to make money and make profits. Bowling was 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.639 doing quite well before. I'm sure they had a slump 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.280 when Douglas took over. But what you find is not 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:26.879 only do people want to make money, they want to 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:28.879 make obscene amounts of money. They want to make an 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.879 amount of money that they're looking at you like your child, 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:34.320 like well you know now calm down, sunny, because there's 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.560 a lot of money at stake here for us who 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.520 run and own the company. And my point is is 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.960 that for me, I'm always so sad. I'm always so 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.240 impacted by government officials who don't have the guts to 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.840 do their job. And the government's job is. I mean, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.879 I've I watched people in testimony in hearings and I 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:56.560 think to myself, thank God I'm out there, because I 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.160 would be looking at the heads of car companies and alchemies, going, 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.520 you don't get it. You come here, you answer our 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.960 questions on behalf of the American people. We have the authority, 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.920 and I feel like that authority is not always employed effectively. 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.200 You said Defacio did a good job. He's amazing. I 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.240 mean he and his heart was so in the right place. 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.280 But he was also dogged and he held these folks accountable. 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.119 And you know when you see him in those congressional 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.240 testimonies and chasing down every single document and you know, 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.919 putting this report together, which took years in the making 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.680 and is incredibly thorough. They go after bowing and they 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.160 hold them accountable, and they're continuing to go after bowing. 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.040 So I think there are a lot of extraordinary heroes 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.520 who are celebrated who are really on the front lines 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:50.840 of this, whether it's Defasio or Michael Stummo, who's the 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.680 father of Samuel Stummo who died in the Ethiopian plane 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:59.199 crash and turned from a victim to really an advocate. 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.320 And he, I mean, I just got off the phone 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.320 with him yesterday and he he's not giving up on this. 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:06.679 I mean, Bowing has thrown a lot of money at 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.080 these families to get them to be quiet, and he 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.640 is not going to be silenced. And he is continuing 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.840 to you know, spread the message that that this that 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.920 he has a very continued concerns about the safety of 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.679 the seven thirty seven Acts, the seven eight seven Dreamliner. 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.159 They just announced yesterday the f A a that I mean, 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.520 as though this should be news, but that the FAA 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.399 is going to actually regulate Bowing and not let Bowing 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:40.400 regulating regulate. So you know, watch the film because that's 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.760 another interesting point about how when I was studying government 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:46.639 at gw in the seventies, when I went down to 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:49.040 Washington to go to school, and we talked about that, 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.600 and we talked about how you know, uh, departmentalization, how 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.000 people are in these departments, like presidents come and go. 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.600 We're here civil servants for twenty thirty years, and so 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:00.800 here at the f A, we have our own relationships 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.639 with eight with airline companies, and they allowed Bowing to 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:07.480 self regulate and self inspect. I do think you're right 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.200 that there's they're not enough people in government who are advocating. 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:13.639 But I guess my point is is that in this 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:18.480 film you show a world where advocacy comes from a 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.359 lot of different perspective. It comes from the government officials 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:23.680 doing the right thing in this case to Fasio, it 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.760 also comes from you know, people who don't think of 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:30.520 themselves as advocates but turn into ad it's as a result. 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:34.920 And then you know Andy Pestor, who's a dogged journalist 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:37.800 who chases down the story and gets us the information. 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:42.040 And it's the combination of all of those people who 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.840