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Speaker 1: I have a really deep question for you, or a

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Speaker 1: one that's really been puzzling me. Oh, but we're jumping

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Speaker 1: right into the hard stuff. I don't know. Maybe you're

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Speaker 1: gonna think it's easy. Really a cartoon is let's find out.

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Speaker 1: So we just came off of the holiday season. Lots

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Speaker 1: of people got lots of presents. Yeah. Yeah, And in

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Speaker 1: American Christmas, at least, the traditional story is that Santa

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Speaker 1: Claus brings all those kids presents. You're not gonna ask

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Speaker 1: me about the physics of flying reindeer, are you? No? No, No,

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Speaker 1: My question is more philosophical. It's does Santa also get presents?

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Speaker 1: Who is Santa's Santa? WHOA that's meta, dude. And if

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Speaker 1: Santa has a Santa, who is there Santa Santa Santa

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Speaker 1: Santa Santa has a Grand Santa and a great grand Santa.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I don't think you want to go

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Speaker 1: too far into the Santa verse. You just accept your presence, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: Thanks Santa. I hope these cookies are enough for you.

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Speaker 1: Hi am or handmade cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi I'm Daniel. I'm a particle of physicist and a

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Speaker 1: professor at U c Irvine and I have sometimes played Santa,

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Speaker 1: Oh really in like a theater production, in a movie.

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Speaker 1: No No. In the eating Cookies Late at Night version

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Speaker 1: of Santa, you don't even leave presents. You just go

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Speaker 1: and eat the cookies. You try to teach your kids

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Speaker 1: a valuable lesson about leaving food out. We're all about delegation.

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Speaker 1: My wife handles the presence, I handle the cookies. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a marriage that seems like a raw deal for

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Speaker 1: one of you. We're a half big deal depending on

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Speaker 1: the cookies. But welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge

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Speaker 1: Explain the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio in

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Speaker 1: which we share the treats of the universe with you.

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Speaker 1: We don't gobble up all the cookies of understanding. We

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Speaker 1: break them into pieces and pass them around to all

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Speaker 1: of humanity. We think it's important that everybody gets to

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Speaker 1: taste the sweetness that is the understanding of how the

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Speaker 1: universe works. Because this incredible, far flung universe is majestic,

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Speaker 1: is bonkers. Is difficult to understand, but it's definitely worth

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Speaker 1: digging into. Yeah, because we hope that every episode you

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Speaker 1: listen to is a little bit like Christmas where you

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Speaker 1: click on the episode and you open up an incredible

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Speaker 1: and amazing gift of truth about the universe and how

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Speaker 1: it works, and hopefully you won't return it. Hopefully you

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Speaker 1: didn't get two or three of these for Christmas, but

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Speaker 1: you can regifted. You know, we give the gift that

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Speaker 1: just can be infinitely regifted. I guess that's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it is a goal of physics to unwrap the

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Speaker 1: mysteries of the universe, to peel back layers and layers

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Speaker 1: of wrapping paper, and to finally, maybe one day, reveal

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Speaker 1: what is going on underneath. Yeah, because sometimes I think Daniel,

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Speaker 1: you talk about the days when they reveal big discoveries

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Speaker 1: in the media, you call that kind of like a

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Speaker 1: Christmas for physicists. Yeah, it is really exciting, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we live for. You know, it's not that often

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Speaker 1: in physics that you actually make a really big discovery

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Speaker 1: a day when you get to ask Nature a question

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Speaker 1: and you've forced it because of the ingenuity of your

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Speaker 1: experiments to reveal something to you. These days come, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes ten twenty years apart. Yeah, And I guess the

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Speaker 1: problem is if it's a discovery by one of these

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Speaker 1: huge collaborations with like a thousand people, do you then

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Speaker 1: have to leave a thousand cookies and milk classes out

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Speaker 1: for them? You know, a big collaboration of physicist doesn't

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Speaker 1: run on empty stomach. So yeah, the cookie budget is

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Speaker 1: pretty serious, right, except then also it's coffee not milk.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's expresses depending on where you are in

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Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, And there was a particularly interesting and

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Speaker 1: fun discovery announcement, and back in twelve that was a

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Speaker 1: big deal. It was like a mega Christmas almost in

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Speaker 1: the particle physics world. It was. And you know how

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Speaker 1: you anticipate Christmas, You start thinking about it in the fall,

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Speaker 1: and then as December comes it gets more and more exciting,

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Speaker 1: and then the night before Christmas you're just going absolutely

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Speaker 1: bonkers wondering what you're gonna get under the tree. Well,

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Speaker 1: for us, the discovery the Higgs boson was like that,

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Speaker 1: except over fifty years, fifty years between the prediction that

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Speaker 1: the Higgs boson was a thing and the day we

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Speaker 1: could say it is a thing, it is real, It's

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Speaker 1: out there in the universe. Oh Man, actually did that

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Speaker 1: with my kids. It's like the next Christmas is fifty

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Speaker 1: years from now. That's when you get your presents. They're

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Speaker 1: going to give you fifty times long a list then, right,

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Speaker 1: but then they have to be good for fifty years.

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Speaker 1: That might be worth it. It might be where that

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Speaker 1: you're definitely not screwing up their childhood death. Well, I am,

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Speaker 1: but it's just a matter of how, of course. But

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Speaker 1: it was a pretty big discovery, the discovery of the

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Speaker 1: Higgs boson, or I guess not the discovery, but the

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Speaker 1: confirmation that it exists, right that the same thing. No,

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Speaker 1: I think it was a discovery. We didn't know for

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Speaker 1: sure that the Higgs was real before we thought there

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Speaker 1: was a great idea. It was a beautiful and brilliant

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Speaker 1: idea to bring together all these various pieces and explain

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Speaker 1: them in terms of the Higgs boson. It really pulled

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Speaker 1: everything together in an elegant way. But we weren't sure.

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Speaker 1: It could have been wrong. And that's why we experiments, right,

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Speaker 1: because we don't just sit in the back of a

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Speaker 1: cave and think about how the universe might be. We

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Speaker 1: actually go out there and try to discover it and

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Speaker 1: force it to reveal the truth to us. That's what

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Speaker 1: science is all about, is doing experiments to confirm our understanding.

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Speaker 1: So I would definitely call it a discovery, right, right,

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Speaker 1: But and you mean metaphorically, you don't go out of

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Speaker 1: the cave because the large Hattern collider isn't a cave technically, right,

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Speaker 1: It's true. I guess we don't go out of the cave.

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Speaker 1: We do the experiments in the cave. We bring the

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Speaker 1: world into the cave. Screw you, Plato. You build all

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Speaker 1: the equipment inside, kind of like the bat cave. So

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Speaker 1: you and Batman are right up there. That's right, we're

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Speaker 1: reading a new chapter to Plato's allegory. But it was

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Speaker 1: a pretty big discovery, right, the discovery of the Higgs boson.

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Speaker 1: It sort of completed what's known as the standard model. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Without that piece, we really didn't understand some basic things

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Speaker 1: about the particles and how it all whiz through the universe.

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Speaker 1: We didn't understand why the W and the Z bosons

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Speaker 1: for the weak force were so heavy whereas the photon

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Speaker 1: was so light. We didn't understand where the other particles,

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Speaker 1: how they got their mass. It was a big puzzle.

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Speaker 1: And so now that we know the Higgs is real

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Speaker 1: and we know something about how that happens. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: The idea is that the Higgs boson and the Higgs

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Speaker 1: field is what gives other particles their inertial mass. Right,

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Speaker 1: We've just talked about this in a recent podcast. We

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Speaker 1: talked about this in lots of podcasts. Absolutely, the Higgs

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Speaker 1: is the reason that particles are not massless. The electron

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Speaker 1: and the corks and lots of these other particles have

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Speaker 1: some massive changes how they move through the universe, and

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Speaker 1: that's because of the way they interact with the Higgs field. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so the Higgs is sort of like the you know,

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Speaker 1: the host of the Christmas party making sure everyone gets

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Speaker 1: enough mass, eat, eat exactly. But then I guess that

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Speaker 1: raises the question, what about the Higgs itself? Who is

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Speaker 1: making sure the host's plate is also full of cookies? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Today on the program, we'll be asking the question where

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Speaker 1: does the Higgs boson get its mass? WHOA, that's a

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Speaker 1: pretty meta question if you're if you're familiar with particle physics. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's like does Santa give himself presence? Does he get

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Speaker 1: presents from somebody else? Either way, it's kind of weird.

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Speaker 1: I would think it was Mrs Santa who gets Santa presents? Right,

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Speaker 1: all right, and so then Santa gets her presence. Also, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Santas are their own Santas. Do They whisper thank

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Speaker 1: you Santa to each other on Christmas Morning? They write

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Speaker 1: Dear Santa letters to themselves. Every time they write an

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Speaker 1: email to each other or send a text message, they're

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Speaker 1: literally writing to Santa. Yeah. But then I would say,

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Speaker 1: Mrs Santa, she's the super Santa because she's Santa Santa, right,

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Speaker 1: Like everybody else gets their presence from Santa, and Santa

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Speaker 1: gets his presence from Mrs Santa. And she's sort of

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Speaker 1: like at the top of the pyramid. See you're saying

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Speaker 1: Santa is just like the Wizard of Boss. It's just

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Speaker 1: the front man exactly. He's the front man. Really, it's

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Speaker 1: Mrs Santa pulling the strings behind the curtain. She is

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Speaker 1: the supervillain, the final boss. If you want to get

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Speaker 1: your presence, I mean, you know, but yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty deep question, I guess. You know. We talked about

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Speaker 1: all the time how the Higgs boson gives mass to

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Speaker 1: the other particles. You know, when you interact with the

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Speaker 1: Higgs field that when you feel yourself heavy or or

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Speaker 1: inert and the Higgs boson is sort of how you

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Speaker 1: interact with the Higgs field. But then the Higgs I

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Speaker 1: guess particle itself has mass. Also, the Higgs particle definitely

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Speaker 1: has mass. And one of the big experimental challenges for

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Speaker 1: us before we discovered it was that we didn't know

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Speaker 1: how much mass it had. If it had had more

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Speaker 1: mass than it does, it would have been much harder

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Speaker 1: to find. And if it had had less mass, we

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Speaker 1: would have found it years ago. And as it changes

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Speaker 1: its mass, it looks different in the universe, and so

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Speaker 1: we had to look for lots of different kinds of

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Speaker 1: Higgs is at the same time because we didn't know

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Speaker 1: which one our universe had. Wow, well, it is a

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Speaker 1: pretty meta and a little bit mind bending question. It

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Speaker 1: kind of gives me a headache to think about a

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Speaker 1: little bit. And so we were wondering, as usual, how

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Speaker 1: many people out there have thought about this question, this

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Speaker 1: sort of recursive question, And so Daniel went out there

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Speaker 1: into the internet as usual to ask people where does

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Speaker 1: the Higgs boson get its mass? And so, if you're

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Speaker 1: sitting at home and you like to play along this

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Speaker 1: part of the podcast, wondering if you know the answers

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Speaker 1: to this question. Then I do you you to send in

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Speaker 1: your answers If you'd like to get some headache making

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Speaker 1: questions in your inbox, just right to us two questions

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Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com and you'll send them

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Speaker 1: all on Christmas, right, that's right. I'm the Mrs Santa

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Speaker 1: of physics. Well, here's what people had to say. The

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Speaker 1: first thing that comes to mind is the Higgs field.

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Speaker 1: But given that the Higgs Boson is a we go

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Speaker 1: in that field itself, I don't know if that makes

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Speaker 1: any sense. M Probably the Higgs bosom get its mass

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Speaker 1: from itself, because I know it gives mass to other particles.

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Speaker 1: The Higgs boson definitely gets its mass from its local church.

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Speaker 1: I cannot point a finger to a place Higgs field

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Speaker 1: gives mass, but Higgs boson when he gets his mass,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I believe that it is a field

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Speaker 1: as well as a particle, and I know that it

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Speaker 1: imparts mass to other particles. But as far as where

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Speaker 1: it gets its mass, I would say maybe the field

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Speaker 1: around it. I don't know. But from the chatter I

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Speaker 1: hear from scientists and shows such as yours, I get

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Speaker 1: the idea that too, a three D being such as ourselves.

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Speaker 1: It would seem as if that mass is coming from

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Speaker 1: somewhere else in space. That's the best I can do

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Speaker 1: for you. So I think Higgs boson would get its

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Speaker 1: mass from dark matter. I think the Higgs boson might

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Speaker 1: be massless. It's a boson like the photon or gluon

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Speaker 1: or graviton or w or z the boson. I think

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Speaker 1: it probably doesn't have mass itself, but if you excited field,

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Speaker 1: it will decay into stuff that does have mass. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was like mess. Doesn't it give the mess

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Speaker 1: to other things? So where does it get it? Maybe

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Speaker 1: space hamsters, space hamsters. That's a great answer. Space hamsters

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Speaker 1: is a great answer for any question. Really, what would

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Speaker 1: you like for lunch today? Or have you been good

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Speaker 1: this year? Space hamsters? That's all I have to say.

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Speaker 1: Who made this mess in the kitchen? Yeah, so a

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Speaker 1: pretty wide range of answers here, mostly questions themselves. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: like what what? Yeah? I think this made people realize

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Speaker 1: that there was maybe an angle to this question. They

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Speaker 1: maybe hadn't considered it before. That's why I thought this

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Speaker 1: would be really fun to talk about. Like the person

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Speaker 1: who said the Higgs boson gets its mass from its

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Speaker 1: local church, Like does the Higgs Boson go to mess

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Speaker 1: it is called the God Particles? Maybe it is the

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Speaker 1: Higgs Boson Church. Yeah, and you know St Peter Higgs

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Speaker 1: of course discovered it, and so it all hangs together.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a St. Peter in the Church of

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Speaker 1: Biggs Bosoni. Yeah, and you know, the name the God

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Speaker 1: Particle just comes from that book by Leon Laterman a

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Speaker 1: couple of decades ago. Nobody in the field ever calls

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Speaker 1: it the God particle. We just roll our eyes when

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Speaker 1: we hear that. You grown every time I mentioned it

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, mostly out of jealousy because his book

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Speaker 1: sold so many copies. Well, that's your problem. We should

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Speaker 1: name our books. Um, I don't know, the Devil particle

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Speaker 1: the devil. Oh, yeah, there you go. You know, I

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Speaker 1: was looking at the list of science podcasts recently and

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Speaker 1: noticed that we're up there on the list, but we're

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Speaker 1: well behind several other science podcasts, including The Bigfoot Chronicles

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Speaker 1: and The Paranormal. And in the list of science podcasts,

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Speaker 1: they're mostly about the supernatural. Whoa, yeah, I noticed that

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Speaker 1: as well. It's it's a little um makes me wonder

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Speaker 1: how they categorize these things. Yeah, or maybe we should

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Speaker 1: pivot and our podcast should be about like you know,

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Speaker 1: quantum big foot, yeah, or the electron lockns mon monsters.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe we should just double down and go for

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Speaker 1: like supernatural big combined at all, you know, oh interesting,

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Speaker 1: Or we could just talk about things that bend reality

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Speaker 1: and seemed supernatural themselves, like particle physics. Yeah, exactly, the

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Speaker 1: universe is bonkers enough. We don't need to add alien

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Speaker 1: bigfoot that built the pyramids. No, we don't, but they

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Speaker 1: would make it a little bit more interesting. For sure,

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Speaker 1: we might get more listeners. But yeah, we're asking the

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Speaker 1: question what gives the Higgs boson itself? It's mass, because

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Speaker 1: we know the Higgs boson gives other particles mass, and

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Speaker 1: so where does it get its mass? And so you

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Speaker 1: talked about that it does have mass, meaning Daniel, the

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Speaker 1: Higgs boson, I guess, is heavy like it it doesn't

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Speaker 1: move at the speed of light. That's right. The Higgs

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Speaker 1: boson cannot move at the speed of light because it

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Speaker 1: has mass, and nothing that has mass can move at

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Speaker 1: the speed of light, and everything that doesn't have mass

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Speaker 1: always moves at the speed of light. So the Higgs

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Speaker 1: has a hundred and twenty five gigga electron volts of mass.

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Speaker 1: That's a unit where one gig electron volts is about

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Speaker 1: the mass of a proton, So the Higgs is about

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five protons worth of mass. WOA.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you know, if the Higgs boson can

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Speaker 1: move at the speed of light, and that's the particle

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Speaker 1: that gives other particles mass, does that mean that my

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Speaker 1: mask there's like a delay to my mask. Do you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I have mass when the

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Speaker 1: Higgs boson gets to me. Well, information does propagate through

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Speaker 1: the Higgs field at the speed of light, so you

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Speaker 1: can have wiggles in the Higgs field that move at

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Speaker 1: the speed of light, because not every wiggle in the

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Speaker 1: Higgs field is a Higgs boson, but the Higgs boson

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Speaker 1: particle itself doesn't travel at the speed of light. So

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Speaker 1: if you made a Higgs boson and you threw it

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Speaker 1: to me, it would be outraced by a photon. But

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Speaker 1: for example, if the Higgs field collapsed because it's some

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Speaker 1: crazy experiment you were doing over there in your basement,

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Speaker 1: then the collapse of the Higgs field would move at

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Speaker 1: the speed of light. M I see, all right, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess you know, the idea that it gives me

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Speaker 1: mass is mostly about me interacting with the Higgs field,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily with the Higgs boson. Right, Like, when I'm

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Speaker 1: moving through space, I'm not getting bombarded by Higgs bosons.

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Speaker 1: I'm just kind of moving through this molasses field. But

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Speaker 1: if I wiggle the molasses, then that creates a Higgs boson. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there's a bit of a fine point there,

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Speaker 1: depends on whether you like to think about fields or

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Speaker 1: you'd like to think about particles. I like to think

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Speaker 1: about fields, that the fundamental thing in space is all

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Speaker 1: these quantum fields, and a particle is like a special

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Speaker 1: excited configuration of those fields. There are people out there

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Speaker 1: that like to think about everything in terms of particles.

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Speaker 1: Particles are the real thing, and fields are just like

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Speaker 1: a mathematical construct, and instead of fields, they think about

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Speaker 1: virtual particles. That everything we would call a wiggle in

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Speaker 1: the field is just a bunch of virtual Higgs bosons.

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Speaker 1: So you can think about it in both ways. Both

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Speaker 1: pictures are mathematically accurate. I think it's clear to think

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Speaker 1: about the field as the basic element of the universe right, right,

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Speaker 1: And the Higgs boson gives particles mass but not all

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Speaker 1: of its mass, right, Like, it only gives particles one

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Speaker 1: type of mass, that's right. And so you mentioned something earlier,

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Speaker 1: inertial mass. There's really a couple of ways we talk

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Speaker 1: about mass. One is gravitational mass, and that's like, if

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Speaker 1: you have mass, then you bend space and you can

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Speaker 1: create gravity and all that kind of stuff. That's one

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Speaker 1: concept of mass. We're talking about something else today. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about inertial mass. That's like the mass in F

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Speaker 1: equals m A. Right, F equals m A tells us

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Speaker 1: that if you want to accelerate something, that's the A.

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Speaker 1: You've got to give it a force, you've got to

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Speaker 1: push it. That's the F and mass is the relationship

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Speaker 1: between that. If you want to give something a big acceleration,

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Speaker 1: you have to give it a big force. But if

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Speaker 1: it's got a lot of mass, it's going to require

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Speaker 1: even more force to get a big acceleration. So it's

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Speaker 1: that mass the M and F equals m A that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're talking about how an object moves

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Speaker 1: when you push it, Does it accelerate a lot or

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Speaker 1: does it accelerate a little. Right, it's the masses in

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Speaker 1: like how hard it is to move it from here

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Speaker 1: to there. Because there are there are other kinds of masses, right,

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Speaker 1: there's gravitational mass, which is sort of like how you

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Speaker 1: get attracted to other massive things. Yeah, and this is

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Speaker 1: really about how something moves, how hard it is to

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Speaker 1: push it or how hard it is to slow it down. Right,

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Speaker 1: this concept of inertia, that's what we call it inertial mass.

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Speaker 1: And it's helpful, I think, to spend a minute thinking

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Speaker 1: about what that really means. You know, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: what it's like to move some thing through space, or

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Speaker 1: to speed it up or to slow it down. Any

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Speaker 1: property of an object that changes how easy it is

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Speaker 1: to speed it up or how easy it is to

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Speaker 1: slow it down changes its inertia. And so we call

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Speaker 1: that a change in mass. And so that's really what

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Speaker 1: mass is, is a combination of everything that makes it

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Speaker 1: easier or harder for that object to move, to get

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Speaker 1: sped up or to get slowed down. Right. And and

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Speaker 1: if you're just sort of a regular particle run of

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Speaker 1: the male particle, the reason you're hard to move from

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Speaker 1: here there is because of the Higgs field exactly. So

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Speaker 1: if it was no Higgs field in the universe, the

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Speaker 1: electron would have no mass. It would act like a photon.

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Speaker 1: But because the Higgs field is there, the electron is

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Speaker 1: interacting with the Higgs field, like the Higgs field is

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Speaker 1: changing the way the electron moves, and it changes the

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Speaker 1: way the electron moves in exactly the same way as

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Speaker 1: if the electron actually had its own mass. There's no

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Speaker 1: difference mathematically. That was really the genius of the Higgs

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Speaker 1: mechanism is to come up with this other way for

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Speaker 1: a particle to effectively get mass. That's why we call

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Speaker 1: it like the Higgs boson gives it mass, where the

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Speaker 1: electrons and get mask because it's this interaction that changes

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Speaker 1: the way the electron moves in exactly the same way

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Speaker 1: as if the electron sort of inherently had a pure

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Speaker 1: mass to itself. You're saying, like if it inherently was

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Speaker 1: hard to move, Like if the universe worked in that

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Speaker 1: way where things are hard to move if they have

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Speaker 1: something called mass. Yeah, it's possible for a particle to

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Speaker 1: have like its own inherent mass for that not to

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Speaker 1: be zero. But for all the particles we have they

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Speaker 1: come from the Higgs boson. So the electron and all

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Speaker 1: the corks that have zero inherent mass, all of their

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Speaker 1: mass comes from this interaction of the Higgs boson. And

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Speaker 1: so for the mathematically inclined people out there who know

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Speaker 1: about like equations of motions and lagranges, you know, this

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Speaker 1: changes effectively how a particle gets kinetic energy, and so

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Speaker 1: it changes the equations of motions for how it moves

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Speaker 1: in exactly the same way as if it had this

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Speaker 1: pure mass, right, right, So we get our inertial mass

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Speaker 1: from the Higgs field, but not all inertial mass is

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Speaker 1: due to the Higgs field, right, Like you can be

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Speaker 1: hard to move and not interact with the Higgs field. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And this is a common misconception. People think that all

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Speaker 1: mass comes from the Higgs boson. The Higgs boson does

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Speaker 1: give mass to the electron into the corks, but there

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Speaker 1: are other things in the universe that have mass that

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Speaker 1: don't come from the Higgs boson. For example, you you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of mass that doesn't come from the Higgs.

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Speaker 1: Like if you look at a proton, a proton is

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Speaker 1: made of three quarks. Those quarks really don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of mass, But the proton does have a lot

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Speaker 1: of mass, and most of its mass doesn't come from

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Speaker 1: those corks. It comes from other internal energy inside the proton,

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Speaker 1: And any kind of stored energy also gives mass to

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Speaker 1: an object. Right, Like you're saying, and this kind of

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Speaker 1: blew my mind that black holes can have mass, but

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Speaker 1: they don't interact with the Higgs field. Yeah, black holes,

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Speaker 1: for example, have a lot of mass. Right, we don't

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Speaker 1: know what's inside a black hole. We have no idea

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Speaker 1: the state of matter that's in there. And you could,

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Speaker 1: for example, have a black hole made purely of photons.

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Speaker 1: Photons have no mass, but together you concentrate all this

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Speaker 1: stuff together into space, and a black hole made purely

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Speaker 1: of photons can have mass, and none of that comes

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Speaker 1: from the Higgs field. Meaning, like the black hole is,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to move, Like if you wanted to move

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Speaker 1: a black hole, it would be hard. Will it be

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Speaker 1: hard to sort of push it anyways, but it'd be

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Speaker 1: hard to move. But it doesn't interact with the Higgs

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Speaker 1: field when it moves. No, it does not interact with

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Speaker 1: the Higgs fields when it moves. The Higgs field only

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Speaker 1: interacts with things that feel the weak force. Right, the

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Speaker 1: Higgs boson is sort of a part of the weak force,

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Speaker 1: and some black holes, for example, made out of photons,

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Speaker 1: don't have any interaction with the weak force. And it's

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Speaker 1: not just black holes. Right. You take a box of

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Speaker 1: photons that has mass. You put a bunch of photons

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Speaker 1: into a box. Now that box has some mass. What

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Speaker 1: I just filled the box with light. Like, take a

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Speaker 1: box and line it with perfect mirrors on the inside,

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Speaker 1: and shoot a laser in it and enclose it. Now

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Speaker 1: that box has some mass. Why because it has internal

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Speaker 1: stored energy and that gives things mass in a way

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Speaker 1: that we don't really understand. But things that have internal

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Speaker 1: stored energy have mass. They're harder to move the property

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Speaker 1: of stored energy in our universe. Wow, sounds like a

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Speaker 1: great gift that could give my kids next year. Just

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Speaker 1: the box of flight. I'll to him, here's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of mass us just shying a flashlight and close the

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Speaker 1: bus and then give it to them. I have a

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Speaker 1: massive gift for you kids. You're gonna light it. And also, interestingly,

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Speaker 1: dark matter doesn't get mass from the Higgs. But we

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Speaker 1: know definitely dark matter is matter, and it has some

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Speaker 1: sort of inertial mass because it's zipping around at this

429
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: meat of light, but it doesn't interact with the Higgs field. Yeah,

430
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: we think that dark matter does not interact with the

431
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 1: weak force because we've been looking for it. We have

432
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: these detectors underground where we think dark matter wind will

433
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: pass through and if it feels the weak force will

434
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: bump into a zenon atom, and we haven't seen it.

435
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 1: And if it did feel the weak force, we really

436
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: should have seen it by now. That tells us pretty

437
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 1: clearly that dark matter doesn't feel the weak force. And

438
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: to get mass from the Higgs, you have to feel

439
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 1: the weak force. Electrons and quarks and all the objects

440
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: they get their mass from the Higgs do it through

441
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: the weak force, and so dark matter doesn't feel the

442
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: weak force, can't get its mass from the Higgs. That's

443
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: most of the mass in the universe, right, Yeah, it's

444
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: like sixty seven percent of all the mass in the universe.

445
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: It's more like, yeah, wow, but so where does dark

446
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: matter get its mass? Is there a dark Higgs? Yeah,

447
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: there could be a dark Higgs exactly. There could be

448
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: a whole dark sector with a dark Higgs boson. There

449
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 1: could be other mechanisms to get mass would be like

450
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: having a dark Santa Claust, like a gringe. I guess

451
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: to were like an anti Santa Claust. That's the topic

452
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 1: of our upcoming book, The Devil particle, right, dark is

453
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 1: the devil. There you go, and it has its own

454
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: dark mass. Yeah, and so in the end, the Higgs

455
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: boson gives mass to like the tiniest fraction of the universe,

456
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, of all the mass in the universe. It

457
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: only gives mass to the electrons and the corks and

458
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: the ws and z bosons. But that's the tiniest fraction

459
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: of even protons, which are a tiny fraction of all

460
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: the mass that's out there. So God particle is a

461
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 1: bit of an overttatement, that's right. It's more like a

462
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: demigod particle. Maybe it's a minor deity particle at best. Yeah,

463
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 1: it's more like a saint particle. There you go. All right, Well,

464
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: let's get into what gives the Higgs boson itself mass,

465
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: because we know it gives mass to the electron and

466
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 1: the cork and we're all made out of electrons and pork.

467
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: So even though it's not that significant in the grand

468
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: scheme of things. It's pretty significant to us. But what

469
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: gives the Higgs itself? It's mass. So let's get into that.

470
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, we're

471
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: talking about the Higgs boson and what gives itself mass.

472
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: We know the Higgs boson gives mass to the electron

473
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: and the corks, which is what we're all made out of.

474
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: But what gives the Higgs itself? It's mass? Because the

475
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: Higgs has mass, it ate too many cookies. I think

476
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: the Higgs looks great. Man, come on, that's right. We

477
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: want to practice particle positivity here, but not the electron.

478
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: We can be as negative as we want with that one.

479
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: Oh man, I try to be neutral about the Higgs.

480
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, So that what gives the Higgs it's

481
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: itself mass? Like, does it interact with itself? Is there

482
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: another like Higgs particle that gives the Higgs mass? It's

483
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: super interesting. Actually, there's lots of really fascinating wrinkles here,

484
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: but the short answer is that the Higgs gets mass

485
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: from two different places, one from itself and the other

486
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: is from all the other particles that it interacts with. WHOA,

487
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: So you can get mass from two different places. Yeah,

488
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: anything that changes how you move through the universe. Anything

489
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: that changes essentially your inertia changes your mass. And so

490
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: as particles interact with other particles as they fly through

491
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: the universe, it can change their mass just the same way.

492
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: An electron flying through the universe is interacting with the

493
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: Higgs field in a way that changes its mass. It

494
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: could interact with other things in the same way to

495
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: change its mass. That's weird, And but that's not true

496
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: for like the electron and the cork, right, But like

497
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: the electron doesn't interact with itself. It only interacts with

498
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 1: the Higgs fields to get mass. The electron doesn't directly

499
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 1: interact with itself, that's right. It interacts with other particles though,

500
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: like the photon. But those interactions we don't think necessarily

501
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: give it mass. The interactions with the Higgs field do

502
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: give it mass. Let's get into to these. So how

503
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: does it get mass from itself? Like it makes itself

504
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: hard to move? Why is it holding itself back, Daniel,

505
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: Why doesn't it just free itself? It hasn't achieved total

506
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: Higgs positivity yet, No jokes aside, The Higgs boson is

507
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: really interesting and weird because it interacts with itself. Like

508
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: two Higgs boson is flying through the universe will bounce

509
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: off of each other, which is not true of other particles,

510
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: like photons don't bounce off of each other. Photons only

511
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: interact with particles that have electric charge. And since the

512
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: photon itself is neutral, two photons will pass right through

513
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: each other too, Higgs bosons will not. So that means

514
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: that the Higgs boson, as it's flying through the universe

515
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: feels the Higgs field just like the electron does, and

516
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: just like the corks do. Well. That means like you're

517
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: a Higgs field, your your perturbation in the Higgs field,

518
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: you're moving along and you're you're you have trouble going

519
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: through your own field kind of yeah, yeah, exactly couples

520
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: to itself, and so those wiggles in the Higgs field

521
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: affect the wiggles in the Higgs field, which affect the

522
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: wiggles in the Higgs field. And this is sort of

523
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: like very crazy nonlinear exinitial effect there, which you know,

524
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: it's a convergent series fortunately, and so the Higgs boson

525
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: ends up giving itself some mass. But because you know,

526
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: like the electron doesn't have trouble going through its own field, right,

527
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: Or the corks don't have trole going through their own field.

528
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: But somehow the Higgs field, it has trouble going through itself. Yeah.

529
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: And the electron doesn't couple to the electron field, right,

530
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 1: a couple to the photon field. So imagine two fields

531
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: in space, the electron field and the electromagnetic field that's

532
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: the field of the photon. Those two fields talk to

533
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: each other, right. Electrons create photons, which wids through the universe,

534
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: but it also can loop back. Right. The photon field

535
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: then talks to the electron field, and so there are

536
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: similar kinds of effects. For the electron doesn't directly talk

537
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: to itself, but it can sort of interact with itself

538
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: through other fields because its energy can wash into the

539
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: photon field and back into the electron field. The Higgs

540
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: does it directly, right, and the photon doesn't, which makes

541
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: this quite interesting. But gluons can also. Gluons can interact

542
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: with themselves. Yeah, they're pretty sticking that the sticklers. But

543
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: one interesting thing is that we don't you haven't like

544
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: measured this effect that you're not quite sure how important

545
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, So the Higgs boson gets its mass

546
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: from two different ways. One is that interacts with itself

547
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: and the other is interacting with the other particles. We

548
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: don't know how much of its mass comes from either

549
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: category because we haven't yet been able to measure the

550
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: Higgs interacting with itself, and it would actually look really interesting,

551
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: like in a particle collider, if you made a Higgs

552
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: and give it a lot of extra energy, the interaction

553
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: with itself sometimes would look really weird that higgs boson

554
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: would turn into three higgs bosons, like a single Higgs

555
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 1: goes to a triple higgs. Wait, what, like it has

556
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: so much energy it can like have offsprings. Yeah, exactly.

557
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: So we think about these particles in terms of these

558
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: like little interactions. They're like little tinker toys you can

559
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: use to build up more complicated things. For example, electron

560
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: flying through the universe can create a photon, so you

561
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: have this little interaction. We have an electron line coming in,

562
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: an electron line going out, and a photon line coming out. Also,

563
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: for higgs boson, it's more complicated. You can have four

564
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: Higgs lines coming into a single point, which means you

565
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: can have a single Higgs line coming in and re

566
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: Higgs is coming out. We can have two Higgs is

567
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: coming in and two Higgs is coming out, and so

568
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: this is really strange interaction, but it's not very powerful

569
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: and so we haven't seen it yet. We needed to

570
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 1: do lots of particle collisions before we see evidence of

571
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: this actual interaction happening. I see. So then, how do

572
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: you know these two ways of getting mass exist? Like,

573
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: how do you know that this is how the Higgs

574
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: gets its mass if you don't know what the actual

575
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: effect is. So we're not still a hundred percent sure

576
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: because you know, we found this thing. It looks like

577
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: the Higgs boson. So far, everything we've discovered about it

578
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: describes the Higgs boson we expected to see, but you know,

579
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: we do need to nail down these details. Like when

580
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: we first saw it, all we knew was that there

581
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: was some new particle that turned into two photons, and

582
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: then we found okay, also does these other things we

583
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: expect the Higgs boson to do. So we're still not

584
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: a hundred percent sure sort of what exactly it is.

585
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: We've discovered we think it operates this way. Some of

586
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: these things are still theoretical and haven't been exactly nailed

587
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: down many of them by now and ten years later,

588
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: we have seen and measured and it's doing exactly what

589
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: we expect, but there are still room for surprises there.

590
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: We're not a hundred percent interesting, but you sort of

591
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: know it. It is interacting with itself. It does sort

592
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: of auto interacts. We're not a hundred percent sure. We

593
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: haven't measured that exactly, so we haven't isolated that interaction

594
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: and proven that it exists in our universe. In the

595
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: theory it does, but it's possible, you know that there's

596
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: something else going on. We're pretty sure. We're just haven't

597
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: experimentally verified that, right, Right, And you said the other

598
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: way that it gets masses through interactions with other particles. Yeah,

599
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: and so, as we mentioned earlier, the Higgs interacts with

600
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: all these other particles, and any particle flying through space

601
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: can do all sorts of things. Right, When you think

602
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: about a quantum particle going from A to B, you

603
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: shouldn't think about it like calmly floating through space by itself,

604
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: the way like a baseball might go from your hand

605
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: to your friend's hand. These particles are always doing something.

606
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: They're always like surrounded by a cloud of virtual particles

607
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: are constantly interacting with the fields around them, and so

608
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: when a Higgs boson flies through space, for example, it's

609
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: interacting with the top cork field, and with the your

610
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: weak field, and with the electron fields and all these things.

611
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: It's constantly interacting with them. It can like turn into

612
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: a top and anti top particle and then back into

613
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: a Higgs boson momentarily. And so all these interactions also

614
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: change how the Higgs boson flies through space, which means

615
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: it changes effectively how the Higgs boson moves, which means

616
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: they change the Higgs mass. Interesting, it's sort of like

617
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: the Higgs is so popular that when it tries to

618
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: go through a party, it's it's like trying to talk

619
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: to everybody. That slows it down. Yeah, the more you interact,

620
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: the more there's the possibility to gain or lose mass

621
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: as you move through the University's interactions can both have

622
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: positive or negative contributions to your mass, depending on how

623
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: they change how you move. Wait, what so like in

624
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: my Higgs boson, I'm flying through space, and um, I

625
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: guess I'm I have to interact with all the other

626
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: fields that are around me because that the Higgs boson.

627
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: I'm not a popular particle, but what if there's nothing

628
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: in those fields. I know, the electron field is all

629
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: around us, but there aren't electrons in every spot in space. Yeah,

630
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: they're aren't electrons in every spot in space, but those

631
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: fields are never at zero. Right, Every quantum field fills

632
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: all of space and they never actually at zero. Like

633
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: if you think about empty space, it still has those

634
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: fields in them, and quantum fields because their quantum can

635
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: never be totally relaxed down to zero. There's always a

636
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: little bit of energy in all of those fields. So

637
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: if you're in a Higgs boson, you're always interacting with

638
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: the electron field. You don't need like an actual electron

639
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: to be there. You can think about it like as

640
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: virtual electrons if you prefer, rather than thinking about the

641
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: electron field like a potential electron. Yeah, exactly, the possibility

642
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: to have an electron. Yeah. Right, So then you're saying,

643
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: like the Higgs boson interacts with all these other fields,

644
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: and so that's what or potentially interacts with these other fields,

645
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: and that's what slows it down. That's one thing that

646
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: changes its mass, right, And it's not just about slowing

647
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: it down. It's about changing how easy it is to

648
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: speed up or to slow down. Right. Inertia is not

649
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: just about like velocity, it's about acceleration. So it's about

650
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: changes in velocity. And one of the really interesting thing

651
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: about interacting with the other particles is that some of

652
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: the interactions make the higgs heavier and some of those

653
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: interactions make the Higgs lighter because of the way the

654
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: minus signs come out in these calculations. Wait, what like

655
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 1: on an individual basis, like on a on an event basis,

656
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: or like on a per field basis, on a per

657
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: field like some fields boost up the higgs and some

658
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: fields slowed down. Yeah. For example, if you interact with

659
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: boson fields like the W and the Z, or any

660
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: particle with integer spin bosons, then it goes in one direction,

661
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: and if you interact with fermion fields like the electrons

662
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: and the quirks, it goes in the other directions. So

663
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: fermions and bosons are playing like this tug of war,

664
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: or one of them is making the higgs heavier, the

665
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: other one is making the higgs lighter. WHOA, So if

666
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: one of them went away, like, could the higgs boson

667
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: have negative mass? Yeah? That's a really interesting question. It

668
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: could drive it down to zero, but it could never

669
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: actually go negative. Negative mass doesn't make any sense, right,

670
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, you tell me. I know we've talked

671
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: about the the idea of negative mass on the podcast before,

672
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: like maybe you can create anti gravity with negative mass. Yeah,

673
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: negative mass is not something we've seen. So there are

674
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: some theoretical explorations of that possibility. And we actually did

675
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: a whole podcast episode about exotic particles and negative mass.

676
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: So do you want to learn more about that, go

677
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: dig into that. So in theory, it is possible, I

678
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: should say, to have negative mass, right. One of the

679
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: really interesting things though, is that these corrections, the things

680
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: that make the particle heavier or lighter, these things are huge.

681
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: These things are much much bigger than the actual mass

682
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: of the particle. A particle has a hundred protons worth

683
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: of mass, but these corrections they're like a billion protons

684
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: worth of mass or ten billion protons worth of mass,

685
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: meaning like the overwhelming majority of its mass it gets

686
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: it from interacting with other fields like it itself. Interacting

687
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: with itself is not as strong. We actually don't know.

688
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: The interesting thing is that these corrections sort of cancel out.

689
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: It's sort of like take the number a hundred, add

690
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: a billion to it, and now subtract a billion. That's

691
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: how the Higgs boson has a massive about a hundred.

692
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is that those corrections come really

693
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: really close to canceling out. Like the top cork field

694
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 1: makes the Higgs much much much much heavier, and then

695
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,239
Speaker 1: the w Boson field makes the Higgs much much much

696
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: much lighter. And those two effects, which really could have

697
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: almost been any number, managed to almost perfectly cancel out.

698
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: I mean, the Higgs boson could have had a mass

699
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: of a billion or ten billion protons, but these effects,

700
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: these really huge effects just sort of managed to cancel

701
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: out to keep the Higgs boson mass pretty small. Interesting

702
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: like they cancel out statistically or like before it even

703
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: gets moving. So for an individual Higgs boson, all these

704
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: things are just sort of happening simultaneously. And you know,

705
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: the mass comes from the interaction with these fields, and

706
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: so all these effects are happening all the time, and

707
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: so it happens for every individual Higgs boson, Like all

708
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: the Higgs bosons have the same mass. It's not like

709
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: there's a you know, a population of Higgs is with

710
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: different masses I see or like, well, I mean, like

711
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: what if you have a Higgs surrounded by a bunch

712
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: of electrons, It might have a different mass, would it. Yeah,

713
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: that's a really cool question. You might imagine that if

714
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: there are more fermions nearby, that would like strengthen it.

715
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: But the interaction come from the field itself, and whether

716
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: or not the field is excited doesn't change how much

717
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: it interacts with the Higgs. I see. Interesting. So then

718
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: what's kind of the overall mass of the Higgs field,

719
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: Like what is it in the range of an electron

720
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: or a proton or a cork. So the thing that

721
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: we've measured in our collider has a hundred and twenty

722
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: five protons worth of mass, and so there's different contributions there.

723
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: There's it's the mass it gets from itself, which is

724
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: some unknown number we haven't measured yet we think is

725
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: somewhere close to a hundred. And then there's huge and

726
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: added contributions from top corks, for example, around the number

727
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: of a billion. And then there's huge negative contributions from

728
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 1: like ws and z bosons had also about a billion.

729
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: So you have like a hundred plus a billion minus

730
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: a billion comes out to be around a hundred and

731
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: twenty five. Oh, I see, So actually most of its

732
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: mass comes from its interaction with itself. The rest of

733
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: its mass is sort of cancels out. Yeah, And the

734
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: fact that those two things cancel out is like one

735
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: of the deepest mysteries in physics, Like why did you

736
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: do two huge numbers exactly cancel out? It's like if

737
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: some he said I'm gonna give you a random amount

738
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: of money between zero and a trillion dollars, and I'm

739
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: also going to bill you a random amount of money

740
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: between zero and a trillion, you know, you would be

741
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: surprised if those two numbers came to within a hundred

742
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: dollars of each other. But that's basically the story of

743
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: our universe. Whoa weird. Yeah, that's very suspicious. It is

744
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: very suspicious. And anytime you have like a coincidence like

745
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: that in physics, you're like, let me go look for

746
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: a reason. Maybe this tells me that there's something deeper

747
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: going on, right, right, It's like, how come the milk

748
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: disappeared on Christmas morning and that has a milk mus

749
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: stare that's very strange. Then maybe there's a similar explanation

750
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: that unifies all the data exactly. That's right, Yeah, maybe

751
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: there's a simpler Santa hypothesis. All right, well, let's get

752
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: into what does it mean that the Higgs interacts with

753
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: itself and what does it mean that all of its

754
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: interactions with the other fields cancel out. So let's get

755
00:36:50,080 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: into that. But first let's take another quick break. Al Right,

756
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: we are going deep into the Higgs field and the

757
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: Higgs boson today. What gives the Higgs it's mass? We

758
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: know the Higgs gives mass to other particles, but what

759
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: gives the Higgs itself mass? And we broke it down

760
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: to it's mostly it's interaction with itself. Well, there are

761
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: these three contributions. We don't actually know how much of

762
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: it comes from itself. We think it might be around

763
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: a hundred, but it's sort of a guests. We need

764
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: to measure that exactly, and we can measure that when

765
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: we look for this Higgs interaction with itself in the

766
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: particle collider. So that's something we have to look forward

767
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: to in particle experiments in the future to nail down

768
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: exactly how much comes from itself. Maybe the Higgs doesn't

769
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: want you to know how much mass it has. It's

770
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: a private number. I'm sorry, Higgs. It's for the good

771
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: of the universe, right, we all have to make sacrifices.

772
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: That's right. This is your role, all right. So what

773
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: does it all mean, Daniel? What can we learn about

774
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: this weird part of our universe? Well, it might mean

775
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 1: that there's something going on. You know, anytime you see

776
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: a coincidence in physics, you wonder like, is that really

777
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: a coincidence or is there a reason? You know, It's

778
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: like if you flip the coin a million times and

779
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: then you discovered the number of heads and the number

780
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: of tails add up to be a million, You're like, well,

781
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: that's obvious, right, it's because heads and tails are connected.

782
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: You can only have one for each flip. If you

783
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: didn't understand the connection between heads and tails, it might

784
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: seem like a big coincidence to you. So here we

785
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: have what seems like a really big coincidence that the

786
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: top cork makes the Higgs super heavy, and the w

787
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: makes it much much lighter, and it all comes out

788
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: to be almost cancel. That seems like a weird coincidence,

789
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: Like it has a whole bunch of plus billions and

790
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of negative billions, and somehow they all

791
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: add up to almost zero, all add up to almost zero.

792
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: That's really weird, and we wonder if there's a reason.

793
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: And because we have other particles that have similar situations,

794
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: and there is a reason. For example, you might ask,

795
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: what about the photon. The photon also flies through space,

796
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: it interacts with other fields. Why don't all those other

797
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: fields end up giving the photon mass? Right? What the

798
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: interaction of the photon with the w and with the

799
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: electrons give make the photon massive? And there is a reason. Right,

800
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: There's a symmetry in the universe. We talked about it once.

801
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: It's a gauge symmetry that protects the photon. It says,

802
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: the photon can only do its job of protecting this

803
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: gauge symmetry if it has no mass. All those things

804
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: have to add up to be exactly zero. So that's

805
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 1: true for the photon. It's also true for the gluon.

806
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: The gluon interacts with all sorts of crazy things, but

807
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: all those things have to add up to zero because

808
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 1: there's a color symmetry for the strong force. So we've

809
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: identified these symmetries in the universe that protect the photon

810
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 1: and the gluon. As far as we know, the higgs

811
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: doesn't have that kind of symmetry. There's no other thing

812
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: in the universe that would insist that the Higgs have

813
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: everything balance out like it almost councels out to zero.

814
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: So maybe I don't know, maybe it's not really there.

815
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: Maybe there is a symmetry with the Higgs that you're

816
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: not seeing. Is that possible. That's exactly it, And that's

817
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: what people are wondering, like, maybe this is a hint

818
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: that there's some other weird new symmetry out there in

819
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: the universe. And so this is the genesis of the

820
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: whole idea of soup your symmetry, this idea that maybe

821
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: there are more particles out there. Remember we said that

822
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: fermions make the Higgs heavier and bosons make the Higgs lighter. Well,

823
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: one way to explain how that all balances out perfectly

824
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: is to say, well, maybe for every fermion there is

825
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: a boson and they balance perfectly, and then for every

826
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: boson there's a fermion and they balance perfectly. Wait, you're saying, why,

827
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: why doesn't balance out perfectly? Right, because it doesn't balance

828
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: out perfectly for the Higgs. We don't know exactly how

829
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: well it balances out, because it could be that the

830
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: Higgs mass all comes from its own self interactions, or

831
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: could be that it almost balances out perfectly. Either way,

832
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 1: there's something going on because these big numbers are either

833
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: exactly canceling or almost exactly canceling. Either way, there must

834
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: be some explanation. Really weird if that was totally random.

835
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: I think you're saying that in your theories it's not

836
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: canceling out, which either means their theories are missing something

837
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: or just the weird thing about the Higgs. You don't

838
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: know for sure, right, We don't know for sure. It

839
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: could be balancing out, but you haven't met. Yeah, we're

840
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: not sure if all those quantum corrections perfectly balance out

841
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: or if they almost balance out. But either way, something

842
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: weird is going on because you're adding and subtracting two

843
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,959
Speaker 1: arbitrary numbers that are both in the trillions, and they're

844
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: canceling out almost exactly, So something is keeping them close

845
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 1: to each other. And one way to keep those numbers

846
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: close to each other to have it be like they

847
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: have to be close to each other. The way like

848
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: the number of heads us the number of tails has

849
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: to equal the number of coin flips, is to double

850
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: the number of particles. Every time you have a top cork,

851
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: which makes it heavier, you have a boson particle we

852
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: call it the stop cork, which makes it lighter in

853
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: exactly the same amount. And if you have a w

854
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: particle that makes it lighter, you add a new particle

855
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: called the we know, which makes it heavier. So for

856
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: every fermion, you create a new boson, and forever boson

857
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: you create a new fermion, and then they just naturally

858
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: cancel out because there's this symmetry to them. It's like

859
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: they're coming these pairs where one of them makes it

860
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: heavier and one of them makes it lighter. Right, So

861
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: I think you're saying, like, if we assume that the

862
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: Higgs boson is supposed to be like a coin flip,

863
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 1: then there's something wrong. But maybe like it's not a coin,

864
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: maybe it's like more like a dime maybe, or like

865
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: a three sided coin. Yeah, maybe there's something else going

866
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: on exactly, And there are a bunch of different ideas

867
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: for how to balance those things out and how to

868
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: keep the Higgs boson close to zero mass, and then

869
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: some people think, hey, maybe it's just a coincidence. You know,

870
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: maybe it is just a bunch of coin flips and

871
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: we just happen to get a Higgs boson that doesn't

872
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: weigh very much, and that's just the universe we're in.

873
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: Maybe it's all just random, right, right, Yeah, Like maybe

874
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: that's it's just it is because that's the way it is.

875
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: Or maybe there are like multiple universes. That's the other theory, right,

876
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: Like maybe there's a whole bunch of an infinite number

877
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: of universes, some in which the Higgs has a different mass. Yeah,

878
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: and if the Higgs had the mass of you know,

879
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: ten trillion, for example, the universe would be very very different.

880
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: It would look very different, and we might not be

881
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: here to ask the questions. So that's sort of the

882
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: anthropic answer, is to say, you don't need an explanation

883
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: because you only notice it because it happens to have

884
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: these values, and if it had different values, you wouldn't

885
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: be here to it, is right. I don't really like

886
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: that answer because it's sort of unsatisfying. That's right, because

887
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: you're mis right, I am a little bit misanthropic. That's

888
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: my principles. I like the supersymmetry answer. It's beautiful. It says, oh,

889
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: there's this perfect balance in these things in the universe,

890
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: and the reason they add up to zero is because

891
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: there's this symmetry. You haven't discovered it. It's a nice story.

892
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: The problem is that we don't see those other particles.

893
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: If those particles existed, they would have to exist and

894
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: have the same mass as the particles we know. The

895
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: stop particle would have to have the same mass at

896
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: the top particle. But we haven't seen it yet, and

897
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: we should have seen it sort of by now. And

898
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: so supersymmetry was a really exciting idea ten years ago

899
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: or so. We thought we might find it at the

900
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: Large Hadron Collider, but nothing. Yeah, you sound really bummed up.

901
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: Imagine discovering that instead of having twelve particles, we have

902
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: twenty four, right, Like you just double the number of

903
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: particles you can play with and all these crazy things

904
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: and they interact with each other like it would have

905
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: been a gold mine for particle physics. Instead, all we

906
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: found was the Higgs boson and then nothing else after that. Right,

907
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: It's like what if Mrs Santa also came and gave

908
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: you presents. If you get double the number of presents, Yes, exactly,

909
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: that's the Santa symmetry super Santa symmetry. But does that

910
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: mean you're also sort of against this idea of the multiverse,

911
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: Like from a theoretical physics point of view, it's not

912
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: as elegant to have a multiverse. I think the multiverse

913
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 1: is elegant for other reasons, right, because it tells us

914
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: something about the context of our universe, and it broadens

915
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: the possibility of existence. I think it's cool from that

916
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: point of view. I don't think it's a great way

917
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: to answer these kinds of questions like why is this

918
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: number the way that it is. It's not really an

919
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: answer to say, well, it's just random and just just

920
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: is the one you got. I like answers that say, well,

921
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: there's a reason for everything, and in the end, if

922
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: you keep digging, if you keep unwrapping the presents, there

923
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: is at the core a reason why the universe is

924
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,959
Speaker 1: this way and not some other way. That's the whole

925
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: project of physics. So sore not given up on that, right, Right,

926
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: you still have to work, right, I mean, you'd be

927
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: out of a job if the universe was just friend

928
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: of Yeah, and it's not just about my paycheck. It's

929
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: about the curiosity. You know. I'm in this field and

930
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are curious about the

931
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: universe because they think there are answers out there and

932
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: that there's a moment where you could learn something about

933
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: the universe and like, oh, wow, the universe is this

934
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: way because of this, That makes perfect sense. How could

935
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: we have not seen that before? That's the Christmas morning

936
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: that we are all hoping for in particle physics, and

937
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: so to say oh, there's not really an answer, that

938
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: sort of takes away Christmas. Man. Well, I mean, but

939
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: I mean philosophically speaking, it's the very unscientific stance to

940
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: have right on scientific point of view. I mean, you

941
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: have this feeling that maybe there's a real symmetry and

942
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: beauty about the universe, but you don't know, right, it's

943
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: just sort of a human feeling and you're going with

944
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: you're good about that, Yeah, But the scientific part of

945
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: it is that we will accept whatever the universe says.

946
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: And so we really wanted supersymatry to be there, and

947
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: we went out and looked for we were all excited

948
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: about it, and the universe said nope, there's nothing here,

949
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: and we took it. We're not like insisting on supersymmatry

950
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: no matter what. If it's not there, it's not there.

951
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: We're gonna move on and find other ideas. Right, Sad

952
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. What are you gonna do? Exactly?

953
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go and strike. But it did make

954
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: finding the Higgs boson more complicated because we didn't know

955
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: what its mass was going to be in advance. We

956
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: didn't know how all these numbers added up. We didn't

957
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: know maybe the Higgs boson is super duper crazy heavy

958
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: in our universe and we could never even see it

959
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: in our colliders. And so when we found the Higgs

960
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: boson and measured it to be a D twenty five,

961
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: there was a lot of head scratching. People like, that

962
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: is a really weird number for all these reasons, right, Like, oh,

963
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: it all has to add up and cancel out just

964
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: perfectly to get such a small number, Like you looked

965
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: for it where it's interaction with itself, would say, it

966
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: is if you ignore the interaction with the other fields,

967
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: and that's where you found it. Yeah, pretty close to

968
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: where we found it. So why did you look for

969
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: it there? If it would be weird to find that?

970
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: We looked for it everywhere. We just didn't know in

971
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: advance where it was going to be. You know, we've

972
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: been looking for the Higgs bosons for years and the

973
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: reason we say it took fifty years is that people

974
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: started looking for the Higgs boson a much lower energy

975
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: colliders because we could you know, I remember there was

976
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: a time when we were working on the Tevatron, the

977
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: collider just outside Chicago, and there was a chance that

978
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: it could discover the Higgs boson, but only if it

979
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: was like less than a hundred and fifteen g v

980
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: or so. Anything heavier than that would be really hard

981
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: to find. And so it was just sort of like

982
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: up to nature, like are we going to find it

983
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: here or do we have to wait for the next accelerator,

984
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 1: And so, you know, you just don't know, right, Yeah,

985
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: well you've found it, you know, you sort of know

986
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: where it is how much of ways, but there are

987
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: still big mysteries about it, right, and some that sort

988
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: of really kind of pointed huge mysteries about the universe,

989
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: and maybe it's not sort of put together the way

990
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: we think it is right now, and I'd say it's

991
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: one of the biggest mysteries in particle physics. I mean,

992
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: people talk about dark matter and dark energy, these are

993
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: questions about the universe. But this is a really huge

994
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: problem in particle physics. Nobody understands why the Higgs isn't

995
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: super duper crazy heavy, And it's a really big screaming

996
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: clue that there must be something else going on in

997
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: particle physics, some part of this puzzle that we're missing,

998
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: but we haven't figured it out yet. Wow, what would

999
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: happen if the Higgs was super duper heavy? Would we

1000
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: also be super duper heavy? Well, that's a really great question. Indirectly,

1001
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: it would change our masks. We get our mass from

1002
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: the Higgs field, and the value of our mass comes

1003
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: from like where the Higgs field settles into its lowest state,

1004
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: and that's partially determined by the mass of the Higgs boson.

1005
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: The two are a little bit connected, right, So everything

1006
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: would be heavier, then everything would have a different mass. Yes,

1007
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: things would be a lot heavier. So we suspected that

1008
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: the Higgs was probably light for that reason, it would

1009
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: be hard for the Higgs to be super duper massive

1010
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: and for us to have the universe that we do have.

1011
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: Weren't sure exactly what value it had. So it's all

1012
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: the Higgs fault. It's all the Higgs, exactly it is.

1013
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: After all, it's not the cookies, it's not your WheelPower,

1014
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: it's the Higgs. Thank you for st Peter, Yes, thank

1015
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: you physicist for giving me an excuse. All right, Well,

1016
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: another huge mystery about the universe. I guess if you're

1017
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: in particle physics, I mean, this is the sort of

1018
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: the holy Grail kind of right now, it really is.

1019
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: It's one of the deepest questions in physics and one

1020
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: that we hope we might answer with another collider. Oh conveniently,

1021
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: if we give you more money, you're saying you can

1022
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: solve this question. That's right, We're passing around the collection plate.

1023
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: So I think the lesson is that every time we

1024
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 1: answer a question in physics, it just opens the door

1025
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: to an even bigger, deeper question, And I hope we

1026
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: just keep unwrapping those presents forever and ever. Every day

1027
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: is Christmas, or potentially in Christmas day for a physicist,

1028
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: except that every day it's also not a Christmas Day,

1029
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: so you must be disappointed. Sixty four days a year,

1030
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ups and downs. All right, Well,

1031
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, see

1032
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

1033
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I

1034
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio, visit

1035
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1036
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Yea,