WEBVTT - Bon Iver's Past and Present 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.080 Pushkin. Bonivere started in two thousand and six as a 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.759 solo project for Justin Vernon after the breakup of his 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:20.000 college band. He recorded his first album in his dad's 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.079 hunting cabin deep in the woods of Wisconsin, just him, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.400 an acoustic guitar, a lot of fresh venison, and DVDs 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.760 of northern exposure. That debut got so big that within 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.240 a few years of its release, bony Vera was collaborating 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.400 with people like Beck and Kanye West, which may help 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.600 explain the shift in musical direction Bonievere's music has taken. 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.479 His Palliative Sounds has expanded a lot across four albums, 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:45.160 and Bonivere is no longer just a solo project either. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.120 It's still centered around Justin, but it includes a whole 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.920 bunch of collaborators from Wisconsin, where Justin still lives, and 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:54.920 it's building his own Shangraloss style recording studio. Surprisingly, Justin 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.680 and Rick Rubin had never met until they recorded this podcast. 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.160 Despite their close working relationship with Kanye, there's a chance 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.640 for them to get to know one another, discuss Justin's career, 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.600 and shout about one of Justin's all time favorite groups, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:14.160 The Indigo girls. This is Broken Record Season three. Liner 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:21.120 notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Just a 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.399 quick note here. You can listen to all of the 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.319 music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.240 can find a link to in the show notes. For 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.640 licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in this episode, 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:38.560 you'll hear this sound effect all right. Enjoy the episode. 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.400 Here's justin Vernon and its producer Chris Messina and conversation 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.640 with Rick Rubin that I've right into the kind of 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.640 talk producer's love by building a live work studio space 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.760 far away from the noisy world. Tell me about your place. 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.400 I've heard great things about it. Well, me and Chris 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:57.080 have been working on it for many years. It's under 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.720 construction right now because we kind of we hit a 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.760 point where we needed to to spread out a little bit. 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:04.520 Tell me the whole story of how it How did 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.640 it come to pass? The house I grew up in, 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.839 it's only three miles from there, and it's uh my 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.480 brother found it and it's on tap ten acres, you know, 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.160 super cheap and old. It was an old like seventies 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:21.919 ranch house and that indoor pool and they had a Yeah, awesome. Yeah, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.320 we end up making that our makeship live room for 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.200 many years, but it's not ten acres in the woods 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.200 and it's like my ship, you know, incredible. Yeah, and 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.480 so but we sort of did it d I Y 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.359 for a while, and then I found Chris and took 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.560 him off of a production touring thing and and got 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:43.040 him out there to just basically make it proper, you know. 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.320 And so we've been kind of out of the d 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.320 I Y zone and more and like a trying to 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.880 make a proper tracking space for about eight seven years. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.160 Now you've been out there, I guess, Chris, how how 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.720 would you say it changed from it's d I Y 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.000 incarnation to the current one. I feel like more less 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.720 stuff falls off the walls now maybe or's something. Yeah, 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.200 I'm not the one putting stuff on the walls that. Yeah, 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:06.600 I feel like that we did like a lot of 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.799 teear tottering kind of before I got there, and then 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.160 even still after I did just baby steps when we 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.799 really just needed to do one kind of big move. Yeah. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.800 But I think it's just been getting the recording spaces, 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:21.959 you know, more attractive sounding, and then also improving all 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.760 of the wellness spaces and just the vibe of the place, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.960 because that's you know, made a pretty good record with 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.800 just a pretty cruddy studio. Yeah, and then it's because 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.840 the vibe is there, you know, which obviously you understand 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.880 pretty well. Absolutely, And when I just lived there too, 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.560 like I lived there for many years until I live 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.720 in the guesthouse up back, which is cool, but I'm 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.960 gonna build a house next door actually, just but just 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.680 being in the studio and it not being set up 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:57.000 for really being having like a home home base or 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.880 a really I don't know, any a wellness vibe. It 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.480 was just recording making music, you know. Yeah. So we 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.000 went through like the different iterations too, of like not 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:09.960 knowing if we wanted to be a commercial space or 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:11.520 if we were going to be a private space or 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.400 just justin or what the deal was going to be, 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.800 And so we went through all those different versions. We 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.799 had to do that to learn what we didn't like basically, 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:21.720 and it's really just better off to be kind of 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.560 a friends and family zone and us it's it's the 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.200 best version of it. Absolutely. Yeah, that's that's pretty much 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.920 how we do it too. It's yea. And originally I 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.600 didn't I didn't think anybody else would work here but us. 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.359 But then I was away and friend asked, oh, you 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.479 think we could work here. It's like, that'd be cool. 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.080 And so now I like the idea because if because 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.080 I've worked so much over the course of my life, 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.320 that it's like a way to trick myself into not 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.200 being a workaholic. There you go, that's that. We're just 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.000 talking about that in the way out here. It's like, man, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.240 it's like I love music so much and I could 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.680 do it every single day. Yeah, but it's not a 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.880 comfortable feeling when you're like, is this all I am? Yeah, 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.880 then you can get caught up in it. For it's 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.720 easy too when you love something so much. But and 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.640 I don't know if work with a capital W is 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.359 really the name of the thing that we do because 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.039 we love it so much. But it's at the end 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:19.080 of the day, it is what you're spending time doing, right, absolutely, absolutely, 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.000 And and for most of my life it was in 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.080 you know, dark rooms with no window, dark little dirty rooms, 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.960 So most of my life was just like in really 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.560 unpleasant places. Yes, it doesn't encourage you to be a 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.640 healthy person all the time either, And I think so 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.280 much of the inspiration of the work we do comes 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:42.200 from not just doing the work. The fuel that drives 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:47.479 the process comes from life outside of the studio. Yes, exactly, 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.320 it's exactly. The fuel has been my metaphor lately. It's 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.360 like gas and the tank, healthy engines. You know, everything's 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.839 running on, you know, and music is beautiful enough to 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.160 be inspired by only music. But then that isn't it. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.479 That's not a closet, right, so you gotta go out 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:06.520 and go to Grandma's house or whatever it is. Do 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.160 you call it a band? Yeah, idea project band. I 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.440 don't know what it is. Was it a clear like, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.920 tell me from the beginning? How did it start? That's 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:20.080 actually an easier way to answer it. It's like I 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.560 was in a band with with some of my closest 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.839 friends and people that grew up learning how to play 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.880 music around, and we sort of had that mid twenties 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.520 sort of breakup winner separate ways, and I was kind 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.720 of considering not trying to make a career in music 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.239 and maybe go back to school and all this stuff. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.120 But in that very moment is when I sort of 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.080 started making the first songs for what would become Bonevair, 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.280 And I remember not having a name until I finished 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.279 finished the album and I was watching Northern Exposure, that 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.520 show from the early nineties, and there's this episode where 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.400 the first snow falls in this little Alaskan town and 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.920 everyone goes out and greets each other like Boneva Believer, 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.160 and I thought, well, that's a good thing, because that's 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.479 kind of what that's I've always been inspired by where 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:10.840 I'm from and all that it lacks, you know, everything 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.800 that it lacks, it doesn't have that the other big 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.920 cities in the world have. There's something I've always enjoyed 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.600 about and keyed in about what it's like to be 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.440 from where I'm from, and how tough the winter makes 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.120 you and and how really nobody has the time and 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.360 energy to prove anything to anyone else or something which 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.200 can be very beneficial and have its drawbacks as well. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.800 But that's that's where it came from. So I thought, this, 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.040 this Bonavierre thing, it's almost feels like a community, a town. 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.560 Even though it started with just me. I had this 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.080 idea that it's like it's gonna be a town or 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.360 a little town, or a growing thing or a greeting 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.480 or something. And and of course at the end of 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.520 the day. It's a band, it's an artist, it's a thing, 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.720 and so I try not to be too precious about it. 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.320 But that's how I still believe in it. And you know, 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.400 eleven twelve years later, now I guess it is it. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.000 It really has blossomed into a real breathing community with 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:07.400 love and support and all everything beautiful. Yeah, did you 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.160 make the first album by yourself? Yeah? Tell me tell 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.760 me the story. Yeah, So I was. I was living 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.239 in North Carolina, and I'd started some of these things, 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.560 and as the band kind of broke up, I I 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.840 sort of kind of high tailed it back to Wisconsin. 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.760 I really lived in Wisconsin my whole life, minus that 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.480 year and whatever amount of time I've been on the road. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:29.480 But at that point, I'd never been on the road 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.920 really before. I'd never really had any paying music work 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.040 other than weekend bar gigs and guitar teaching. So I 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.760 brought I brought my little Digio one pro tools rig 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.400 and my MACG four up to my dad's hunting cabin 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.959 kind of an hour north of where where we grew up, 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.560 and he just kind of let me go in there, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:53.960 and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.800 If I'd go back to school to be a music teacher, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:57.920 I'd have to wait to the fall, and this was 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.000 right in the winter, and so he just let me 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:02.840 set up there. And I just had my little set 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.480 up in a couple of guitars, and and I'd done 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.760 some engineering and some making some records before, but I 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.240 had kind of just lost some of the gear and 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.079 so it was a very very meager setup, which ended 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.360 up being a really great thing. And so over the 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.440 over kind of a three month period, just kind of 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.480 being there by myself, unless my dad would stop by 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.600 over the weekend to work on a sawmill or something like. 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:29.000 I was just there letting myself be bored, allowing myself 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.000 to do to have a day where nothing happened for 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.760 the first time in my life, and not have any 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.160 guilt about it. It was just the first time I 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.800 really truly was on my own, beautiful. Do you think 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:43.280 of it as an enjoyable time? Yes, I mean there 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.040 were there was boredom. There was like sort of just 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.680 sitting there, maybe an unhealthy amount of alone time or 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.959 something like that, But I do I look back at 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:57.760 it as a very very positive experience to let go 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.280 of a lot of things too. I was making it 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.400 for myself. I had kind of given up on the 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.200 idea of chasing anymore. And of course once you're once 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:12.240 you're done with chasing, you're arriving given up on that idea. 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.520 What would what would your days be like? Like, what 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.360 if you're alone for three months? Yeah, it was I'd 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.240 wake up and probably crack three eggs and some veniceine, 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.640 you know, because we'd do some hunting up there. But 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.760 there's a little TV up there in a DVD player, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.720 so I'd watch a lot of the Northern Exposure and 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:37.320 and strangely it's my favorite like thing, novel, book, show, whatever, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.320 whole time because it was just you know, so there 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.199 might be a day where I only watch DVDs, you know, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.360 and you know, smoke a joint and drink six beers 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.880 for no reason or something. But then then a day 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.280 I would just wake up, go sit on the computer 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.200 stool and just be there in it. You know, we're 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.320 reworking and mixing and doing that thing on that album. Yeah, 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.720 I wonder if I was thinking about growing up and 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.840 the amount of boredom involved in uh, you know, get 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.640 home from school and what are you supposed to do. Yeah, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.520 it's like what do you do? So I'm wondering if 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:22.959 if putting yourself in that state somehow taps into something 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.520 that a lot of people feel more often than they realize. 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.840 It's just a real I mean, you did an extreme 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:37.120 thing by by regular standards in our society, but it 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.520 took you to a place that's probably not so different 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.200 than growing up in the United States, but without having 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.720 anybody like get outside, or you do this, or you 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.320 do that. Yeah, my parents gave it. My dad and 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:54.040 this kids gave me a very supportive experience, or supported experience, 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.760 i should say. And it was it was that that 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.240 boredom was like, huh, you spent a lot of time 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.080 being busy and overworked, and I just I just recently 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.800 had quit a job at a kitchen that had really 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.120 created new anger and stress in my in my mind 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.680 and body. You know, never have I had been that 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.280 stressed or angry or overworked. And and so I think 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:17.880 it was I just sort of looked at as like, well, 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.079 I don't know what I'm doing, and I there was 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:22.680 something going on with these songs where I was like, 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.200 this is a new thing for me. Just just keep working. 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:30.080 And I think just it was a correct, correct recipe 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.360 to be in the right headspace to make the right 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.920 kind of music. Did you do you toured the first album? 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.880 Toured the first album pretty a lot, you know, that 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.480 kind of smashed me up a bit, but not completely 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.080 smashed me up. And so we were making the second record. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.920 By then, I was using a lot of musicians. You know, 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:49.640 I grew up playing in the jazz bands and I 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.040 had a nine piece band in high school to all 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.040 my friends with horns and everything. So it was a 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:58.320 natural inclination to want to be around more people. But 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.280 what naturally happened as I started to share some of 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.240 the load of the songwriting and but also very holding 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:13.360 on really tight. And I think, and this isn't a 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.440 negative thing, but I think in many ways, I've stepped 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.480 farther and farther and farther back from the chief position 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.840 of making the records. And it's funny, after after making this, 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.680 these four records, I'm feeling like maybe I returned to 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.199 just hanging out on my own for a for a 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.360 year or something to get back to that place, because 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.240 you know, I so often would grow up play guitar 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.320 and write a song, sit and write write this song 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.320 down it. It went from sort of that with the 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:48.000 first record too, almost none of that with with where 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.080 we're at now in the last you know, this this 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.920 process this ten years, and so I saw a lot 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.080 of a lot of the death of the ego in 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:02.520 a good way and then also being lost because at 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.319 times because I didn't have that connection to like what 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.520 I knew was right when I was all by myself 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.200 what I knew, what I didn't have to answer to 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.640 or you know, like I didn't have Chris like man, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.120 that sucks or that's really great, either one or problematic 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.720 answers for me sometimes when you're when you're drifted farther 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:25.520 aback away from your your frontal igo. And so you know, 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.680 I see that, I see that happening in the last 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.080 ten years, that arc of sort of stepping back, getting 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:40.000 the music bigger and experimenting more and more. I'm feeling, like, 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.640 you know, I can't predict what the next year is 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:42.960 going to be like, but I'm feeling like a little 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.560 bit of a return to that interesting that that place 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.440 that's coming up kind of is the hunting Lodge still there. 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.480 It is better than ever. I get along with my dad, 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.160 so well, but I don't think it's it would be 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.680 the same situation. He's he's built a big barn, he's 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.960 got a sawmill, and he's got like four hundred maple 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.640 trees tapped up there, and so he's always got people around. 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.400 And plus we've sort of we've sort of made April 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:09.080 Base into into that zone, even though we're not quite 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.320 I don't quite have my own room yet. We're working 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:13.920 on that, but that's in the next year or so. 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:21.280 We'll be right back. After the break. We're back with 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.320 more from Bony Vair. There's a million things to ask 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.760 you about the past, but for a moment, how how 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.360 do songs typically start? Would you say your do you jam? 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.720 There's some improvisation in you know, studio setting, like maybe 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.760 not like instruments and stuff, but maybe some drum machines 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:45.440 and just looking for odd recipes that could create something 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.560 very surprising. It's probably our favorite thing to do, doing 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.560 some just playing in general. I grew up writing a 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.680 lot of songs and guitar and it sort of just 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.080 stopped happening that way, and I've been playing a lot 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.680 more guitar lately, and songs are trickling out, But there's 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.320 still this thing I think is I've developed more as 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.160 a singer than maybe I was before, or where I 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:11.320 really started to hone in on the voice part of it, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.600 I think I became less. It became less important for 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.080 me to write the song and be this songwriter person 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.080 and more like how do we how do I get 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.200 my voice on something that sounds interesting to my voice, 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.440 if you will, And so a lot of we do 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:31.320 a lot of improvisation or budding two things together, like 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.920 have a saxophone go through a harmonizer while I'm playing 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.920 it and singing it, or just looking for things to 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:42.320 clash or to make something that sounded brand new so 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:46.400 that it would be exciting to sing on. That's been 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:48.960 the main process, you know. And every once in a while, 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.920 maybe just a guitar riff would would PLoP in and 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.800 create a song in and of itself. But I'd say 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.680 that's been our biggest way of doing it, is just 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.560 looking for moments that that seem magical. Yeah, and it 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.639 sounds like mainly musical moments. So you'll be working on 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:10.040 track ideas essentially with the idea does it start with 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.840 that feeling of this is interesting, or does it start 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.440 with this is interesting I have I can see what 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.160 I would do on top both. I mean every every 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.240 time is different. Every time it's different, and sometimes just 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.040 something sounds good so you want to keep it around, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:26.679 but you're like, well, this isn't really going to be 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.719 for this project, So we don't know what to do 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.760 with those ones. Exactly. Like the two generally for us 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.960 go go hand in hand. It's like when we hear 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.280 something that we've somehow come up with that sounds really interesting, 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.080 justin immediately wants to sing on it, and that's like, Okay, 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.120 we're we're into something here. That's kind of the biggest 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.040 giveaway that we're onto something. Yeah, I might like a 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:52.960 lot of things. Again, if I don't have anything to 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.159 sing on it, it's sort of like, well maybe we 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.960 should give this to someone else. Yeah, And like and 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.320 like whenever you try and get him to sing on something, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.679 it's like not a good not a good vibe. I mean, 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.880 it's very, it comes very, it's it springs forth. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.480 when it's there, it's there, and when it's not, it's 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.800 really not. I think with the with the previous record 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.840 twenty two million, we did a lot more jamming. I 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.960 mean great. Granted it was over like a period of 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.080 five years that we were writing that record or something, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.679 but there were some pretty extensive, long multi person jams 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.679 that would happen that we got some stuff out of. 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:26.840 But that was kind of a way where Justin I 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.879 think was maybe struggling with with trying to get his 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.480 songwriting going again. That was a way for us to 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.680 do it. It was bringing a lot of people, make 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:36.480 as much noise as we can for a long period 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.120 of time and see what happens. See if there's any 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:40.960 moments that pop three you can that you could then 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.200 like hey what about that? Let's go focus right and 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.360 then that little moment that happened, either use it directly 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.520 usually that's what we do, Use that moment directly and 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.439 shape around it and like you know. But this this 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.920 album was definitely a lot more there's more playing. We 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.760 entered with a lot more intention on a number of 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.119 levels with this, this record, the newest record, and more 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.000 of the touring band than ever before too, yep, which 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:13.399 was a great, great addition. Yeah, But I think sonically 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.520 we I think we've kind of quietly made an active 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.320 choice to not mess with his voice as much as 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.199 we had previously. We knew I think that we were 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.000 going to focus on the lyric content more than we 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:28.320 ever have. Not that we weren't saying something before or 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.320 Justin wasn't saying something, is that we wanted it to 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.760 be heard and we wanted it to be maybe clearer 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.399 than it ever had been. And so I think with 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.919 those may have been the two most like sort of 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:43.360 unspoken decisions for this record, but we were all aligned 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:48.440 on that and everything else just came so much easier. Yeah, 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.520 it was so much more, I don't know, just free 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.720 and easy. It was great. Nice. Yeah, maybe that'll be 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.560 it's it sounds like that can be going forward. It 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.240 sounds like there's that could be our job. Yeah. I 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.240 think it was a huge realization with with this, with 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.240 finishing this record as not as quickly but so much 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.240 faster than the previous one. Yes, that we were just like, oh, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:10.879 this is what it can be all the time. Brad, 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:12.480 Brad Cook and I talked about I mean all three 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.160 of us did, but yeah, Brad and I talked about 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.399 that a lot of just like this is what we 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.000 can make it. Every time there was a breakthrough, Yeah, 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.040 this is all we got to do. Every time, it's great. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.440 Did you record many more than the songs that are 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:25.440 on the album or the songs on the album? Pretty much? It? 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.840 That's pretty much it is? It usually that way? Yeah, 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.560 I think we pretty pretty early on know whether something's 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.719 going to get chased down further or not. So we 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.840 still have like fragments that will probably revisit in a 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.360 year or something. But I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.480 I'm not I don't have this feeling like there's like 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.200 great songs waiting for us. We sort of like worked 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.679 on what we worked on. What was the thought on 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.920 the title? By the way, man, it's it's it's really 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.919 a lot about this whole self care and caring about 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:02.680 your friend thing. It's to me, it's that's the thing 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:04.960 that Bob Marley introduced me to when I was a kid. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.800 Is this I and I? It's I and I, it's we, 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.320 you are me, I am you? Uh. This is all 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.360 of us kind of thing together, this this sort of 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:19.479 responsibility to one another, maybe responsibilities and even strong enough 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.879 a word, it's like we are connected. It's not just 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.440 like we choose to be or not when we hurt ourselves. 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.080