WEBVTT - 2. Steve Herr: A Father's Journey To The Truth About Who Murdered his Son Sam. 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:14.680 Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language. Surprisingly, 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.920 you met with your son's murderer, Daniel Wozniak while he 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.119 was waiting in jail before his trial. We spoke for 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.319 a total of almost six hours. During that time, he 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:29.760 had told me that actually he had planned to um. 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:43.080 Initially he had planned to kill his parents. Welcome back 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:48.280 to Sleuth. We have Steve Hair, Samuel Hair's father, and 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.600 sam was one of Daniel Wazniak's murder victims. And we're 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.040 very grateful to have you here today. Steve, thank you 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.520 good to be here. So I want our listeners to 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:04.720 understanding of appreciate how our relationship began. We met actually 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.399 after the trial officially, and I had been going on 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.399 for years trying to find out the truth of what happened. 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:18.160 The police regarded as far as what they could tell me, 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.600 obviously because they had to prepare for the trial as 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:25.240 well as the prosecutors, so they couldn't tell me much. 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.200 But I found out enough of my own through interviews 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.759 of my own certain things. And then when you had 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:37.240 introduced yourself to me, you had mentioned something, and that's 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:42.600 something told me that other people trusted you with that information. 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.880 So I figured if those people trusted you with that information, 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.240 I could trust you and share some of the information 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.720 that I had received. And I believe what you're referring 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.320 to is when I told you that I had seen 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:03.040 the pictures and what those pictures reflected were what Daniel 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.960 was Nia did to your son. And once again, once 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.320 I realized that those people entrusted you with showing you 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.800 those pictures and they were quite graphic, trust me, I 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:18.119 know then that was good enough for me. So from 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:22.240 there we really did share a journey together. I think 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.480 it really fortified um the results we came up with 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.440 and the work that we did when we were able 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.399 to join forces and do it together. When you came 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.280 along and when you told me what you had seen 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.480 and I said, okay, let's do a little collaboration on this, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.040 and all the stuff you hadn't covered, Linda, and all 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.840 the interviews you've done showed me what a true investigative 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:52.160 reporter should be. I've always believed right from the beginning 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.040 that there was more than just Dan mos NAC's involvement. 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:02.000 Through Sam's friends, quite an number of occasions would fill 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:06.280 me in on certain areas that just strengthened my belief 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.320 that there were more people involved. Then when you and 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.880 I had met and we started going over some notes 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.799 that we had, we realized that this goes much deeper, 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:21.720 and that began our collaboration as far as, hey, let's 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.360 get to the bottom of this. Let's find out or 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.320 try to find out the whole truth. And part of 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:32.320 that truth is in fact looking into others involved in 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:37.720 these crimes, looking into accomplices of dance and and to 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.640 try to find out in fact what their roles were, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.640 if any, and and the evidence to support that. And 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.920 I think some of that focus has to do with 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.280 Rachel Buffett, who was Danniel wznia x x fiance and 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.760 quite frankly the person that he was allegedly committing these 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.400 crimes for so that he could win favor with her 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.720 and and take her on a beautiful honeymoon with your 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.400 son's hard earned savings. And so I think to focus 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.760 in on her with a trial coming up very soon 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.840 charging her with three felony counts. As an accessory, I 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.920 think we learned a lot through police transcriptions that I 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.160 was able to procure from a source, gave a real 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:27.320 blueprint into her guilt. It's the lies I always say 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.560 that led us to believe that she was guilty of 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.960 a lot more than police were able to prove. It's 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.279 the blueprint, is the foundation, it's the whole building. Uh. 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.440 Those the information that you had received, What they did 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:51.000 is they strengthened my suspicions of her her influence. I 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.479 have said, actually after the last two and a half 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.720 years of of my time in on on this investigation, 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.279 that I truly believe that Daniel Wozniak wouldn't have committed 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.800 these crimes if he had never met Rachel Buffett. And 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.719 I will say that Costa Masa please agreed with me 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:12.520 on that. On several occasions, I know that they tried 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.720 to come up with all the evidence necessary so that 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.159 the d A could go after her for murder charges 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:24.640 or accomplished charges, but they just fell short, and that 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.359 just confirmed my belief that, Yeah, she's much more part 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.640 of this story. I mean, at this point, you really 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:37.000 had the access to Sam's friends who lived in Campden 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.640 Martinique at the time, so you could talk to them. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.000 I know it's hearsay, but you certainly did speak to 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.320 quite a few people to find out her nature. And 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.080 her relationship with Dan, and how she was really the 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.440 one in charge. She was the one in control. I 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.960 mean she I have a quick little story that I 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:59.599 think really reflects their relationship and her power over him, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.120 when they would get together with a bunch of neighbors, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.440 including your son, and they called it, I think Taco Tuesday, 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.080 and it was that a neighbor's a mutual friend, Dave Barnhart's. 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:15.640 And when they get together for these parties, Rachel would 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.120 like to exert her power over Dan by sort of 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.560 telling other guys there, look, watch, I'll get him to 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.919 kiss a guy, and I'll tell him if he doesn't, 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.719 we're not going home together. And sure enough she would. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.480 She would basically assert to him, unless you kiss that 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.600 guy sitting next to you, I'm not going home with you. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.320 And that's what do you do? And everybody laugh and 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:41.720 and and that just that to me is so revealing. Well, 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:44.520 I had learned that story from you, but I had 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:49.200 heard the other stories. Whereas she was the one pulling 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.360 the strings in that relationship. She was the one who 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.440 quote wore the pants in that family. She was the boss. 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.320 But once again, everything led to certainly Rachel of being 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.120 part of this, you were actually face to face with 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.880 Rachel on Dr Phil's stage for a national television audience. 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.600 They were young, in love and living the American dream 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.400 of being actors in California. Rachel's claim to fame was 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.920 playing Princess Ariel at Disneyland. Dan was well known in 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.320 the local Orange County theater scene. They were in the 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.880 prime of their lives, engaged to be married, and just 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.160 a week away from their beach side wedding. That is 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.640 until the cops called it off. I'm December two thousand twelve. 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.160 I got a call from Dr Phil Studios saying that 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.640 they wanted to do a show on this and I said, no, 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.080 I don't want to get involved. And they had told 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.400 me what Rachel Buffett is going on there, basically to 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.120 profess her innocence, so I said, sign me up. Two 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.040 days later we had a pre interview, and then three 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.000 days after that, the following Wednesday, we taped the show. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:06.160 Because of how much these people are hurting and they 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.720 think that I had anything to do with that, It's 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.960 bringing up a lot of pain for me. And if 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.040 I had not gone on that show, they would have 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.320 had a show with her who was going to benefit 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:23.600 from this except for Rachel. I'm finding out random different lies. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.640 Jobs that he never had, people that he talked to 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.920 on the telephone, that never existed, a condo that he 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:34.240 never owned, over John Bank accounts. I'm starting to question 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.720 if I've ever known him. I absolutely feel like I 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.679 was stupid by Dan. So of course Rachel goes on 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:43.760 and I'm in the they keep me in the green 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.760 room there and I'm watching, and she's saying, well, I 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.920 didn't know Dan. I didn't know he was like this. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.800 I didn't know he was like that. She did know 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.240 certain things, she knew the financial It wasn't what she 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.800 was saying on Dr Phil was it wasn't the truth. 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.520 And then I did have the opportunity to confront her, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.400 if you're so innocent, reputations whatever, it's hard on your business. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.599 I'm sorry, but my son is dead. My son and 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.200 his friend, his tutor, is the part. They're both dead. 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.120 He was cut up into pieces. And you to come 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.280 on here and go on the TV stations. Poor me. 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.319 That offends me. That offends me. And album was leave 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:29.400 it at that, and Dr Phil also confronts Rachel on 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.199 some of her inconsistencies. Well, what I want to do 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:38.559 is give you, Rachel, the opportunity to tell your side 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.559 of this story. According to the d A, Rachel described 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.120 a third party who came with Sam on the night 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.720 they picked up Dan. Now, according to police, Dan admitted 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:56.720 fabricating this third party. And it's my understanding that you 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:01.319 didn't say you inferred that there was a third party, 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:05.000 but that you told the authorities that you saw a 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.320 third party. Is that not correct. I don't recall telling 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:13.800 that specifically to them. She said, I saw Sam, saw 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.680 Sam coming down with another person on the day Sam 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:19.800 was murdered, and he had a black hat, and he 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.959 had a black hat. And then so that was something 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.559 that police say, oh, that's the story that Dan came 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.000 up with. But then he recanted that story when we 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.840 eventually got him to confess, and he told us that 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.760 was a made up person. And so one of the 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.360 charges is that she said that to police. And the 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.480 reason how she described that story on Dr Phil was 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.640 because of this coffee pot story. You have a wife, right, 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.520 I do, a beautiful wife. Thank you. If your wife 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:50.800 told you that she had just made a cop or 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:52.600 a pot of coffee and it was in the kitchen 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.120 and then you didn't see it. But later on somehow 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.960 it became really important whether or not it was there, 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.800 and a cop to um, what was in your kitchen 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.880 and say, oh, Spahila fork and a pot of coffee. 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.880 I trusted him, and I trusted that what he said 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.680 was true, and especially before I thought it really mattered, 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.480 I didn't question it. And then later on in question 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.320 when the police asked me, well, did you as actually 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.520 see him, and I said, well, no, no, I didn't. 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.640 That sounded like a really rehearsed and coached response. She 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.240 told the police that the man at the black hat 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:37.040 did not live at the apartments, she didn't recognize him. Well, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.360 if you say somebody doesn't live at the apartments and 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.280 you can't recognize him, implies that you saw him. You 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.440 don't hear from anybody, It implies that you saw this person. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.360 That's not right, Lie. I think that's a really important point. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:56.000 Let's talk about the weaknesses of that, which is that, unfortunately, 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.280 normally there's a recording camera on the body of the 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.840 Coasta Mesa police wherever they go, and in this case 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:08.160 there was no recording. The other thing that unfortunately might 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.160 be considered a problem is that when you look at 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.360 the police report, the date that the police report was 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.200 in fact completed and written up was a year later 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.680 after this incident. So because there's such a leg and time, 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.520 I'm just saying that it does lead people to have 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.040 some reasonable doubt. The facts are the facts. If they're 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.560 handed out the next day or they're handed out a 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.440 year from that date, the facts state. The way I 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.520 look at is she lied and she's being charged with 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.480 that lie. The other basis for her felony charge is 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:49.000 that she lied about Sam telling her before he left 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.199 with Dan that Friday, that Faithful Friday when he was murdered, 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.000 when he he was leaving cam Den Martinique with Dan, 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.280 because Dan asked him to go help move some furniture 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.600 in the attic of a theater up on the low 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:05.800 Selimentist military base, and she said that when Sam came 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.080 down to leave with Dan, he kind of pulled her 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.080 aside on on their deck and said, I'm having some 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.880 issues because she said she saw him and he seemed 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.520 forlorn and a little despondent, and he explained it by 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.560 saying that he had these family issues. Here's what happened. 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.480 Dan ro Nack was one of the ways we helped 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.600 catch Dan was when I spoke to Dan and Dan 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.880 told me. This was a few days after I found 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.200 the body. He said, Sam seemed nervous that day and 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.520 I said, what do you mean. He said, well, he 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.599 said he was having some issues, women issues, and he 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.040 and Dan wose Nick told me Sam said he had 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.120 family problems. That was the red flag that told me 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.800 Dan Mosnack was part of something I didn't know at 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.840 the time Sam was dead, and so I knew Dan 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.920 mos Nack was lying because Sam and I are best friends. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.160 We shared so much together. My goodness he has That's 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.480 how they identified his body. He had a huge heart 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.000 with a rose on his chest that said mom and dad. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.679 So when Dan wood Nac told me Sam told him 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.679 that he had family problems, I knew Wosnack was lying. 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:22.880 When Rachel goes on and tells the police, Sam told 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:28.200 her that he had family problems. I absolutely knew Rachel 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.920 Buffett was lying because there were no problems. She got 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.680 that because Dan and her concocted up that story, and 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.680 that puts her right in the mix. And Steve confronts 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:43.800 Rachel on another falsehood for Dr Phil's audience. Rachel had 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.920 mentioned that Sam confide in her well alluded to the 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.880 fact that Sam was having family troubles. Anybody who knows 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:57.000 Sam knows there we absolutely no family troubles. Dan said 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:01.040 the same thing in his alibies, that's that Sam was 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.880 having family problems. Sam wouldn't tell you anything on family 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:10.880 problems here because there were none. So your story absolutely 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:15.080 coincides with your ex fiancee's dance, which, as we know 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:20.960 now we're fabricated. Explain that it could be something as 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.440 simple as he was having girl problems and just didn't 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.400 want to tell anything. I'm talking about girl problems and 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.320 talking about family problems. I don't know why I would 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:32.080 have said it. She's still trying to back down up, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.480 she's still going with it. She's still going with it, 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.840 and she's going with something that never existed. She lied 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.200 about the man in the black hat, she lied about 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.480 the relationship that we had Sammy and myself and Raquel had, 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.200 and she also lied about other things. Do you believe 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.760 she belongs in prison? Yes, you're lying and you're covering 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.720 it up. So now that we're focusing in on these 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.920 felonies in Rachel's case, she's been charged with accessory after 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.640 the fact, which implies that she covered up the crime 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.760 but didn't participate in the planning of the crime. What 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.280 is the maximum time she faces if convicted. I was 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:17.440 told the maximum time. There's different levels of felony after 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.200 the fact. The maximum time Rachel will get is three 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:26.760 years in prison. That's the maxim California. In other states 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.160 is ten years. Some stage is thirteen years, but in 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.200 California it's three years. So our whole point here is 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.560 it is both of our beliefs that those charges should 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.200 have been accomplished charges or in fact murder charges. That's 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.080 that's how we feel, based on the knowledge that we've 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.280 accumulated all over these years. But the d A just 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:51.800 felt it wasn't enough. It was a circumstantial at best, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.480 and he felt strongly that he had a better case 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.960 for accessory. It's not what you and I believe, it's 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.640 what the coast of Masa police believed as well. And 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.440 if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.760 And so that leads us to the third and final charge, 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.359 which in my mind, it's the strongest charge that the 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.359 DA has against Rachel Buffett, and that charge involves a 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.239 gentleman by the name of Chris Williams, and he was 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:22.359 the person that they had met through the Nine Cast. 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.720 He was very friendly with one of their fellow cast members, 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:31.639 and within weeks of knowing him, Daniel asked him for money, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.000 which he often asked many people for money because they 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.520 were being evicted and Chris was willing to give them 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.119 some money. He felt that it was a good gesture 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.120 to pay it forward after all of these fellow Thesbians 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.920 had come up with a charity concert for him, because 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.560 he had some upcoming surgeries and and he had quite 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.000 a bit of money that came from that concert. So 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.280 he offered to loan Dan and Rachel the money, but 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.679 he wanted it back within a very finite period of 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.280 time because he didn't know them very long and he 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.159 was worried about getting his money back. So Chris told 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.760 Dana's story. By the way, Dan told Chris he was 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.760 a fellow Paison, which he was not. So he told 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.040 Dan that there were these loan sharks that he got 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:16.800 the money from, and if he didn't get that money 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.120 back by Friday, they were going to come after him. 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.920 Chris Williams, and that was a big concern, so Dan 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:27.879 new Friday was the deadline, and with that, Chris Williams 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.320 shows up at their apartment wanting his money back, and 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.240 Dan said he was going to try to get some 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:38.280 of it back, and Chris saw Dan leave with your son. 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:44.440 When Dan came back alone, he handed Chris the money, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.760 and Chris offered to give them a twenty because they 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:48.960 had no food money, and so he did that, and 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.520 he said he soon wanted to leave there because the 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.760 stress was so high between the two of them, and 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.440 there was obviously a very negative energy going on there. 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.760 And the reason why I think this charge for accessory 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:09.040 is the strongest. When she was questioned by police, she 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.840 told them that Dan most likely gave the money back 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.280 to Sam or one of the loan sharks outside of 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.480 the apartment. So she completely lied because she was there 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.080 present when she saw Dan give Chris the money directly, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.960 That to me not only is the strongest charge, but 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.520 quite frankly for me, that says to me that she 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.720 is an accomplice and was very much part of the 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.400 planning of the murders, because for her to say that 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:44.560 she had to have known Sam was dead. I'm in 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:49.360 agreement with you regarding this is the strongest charge. Rachel 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:53.720 Buffett on Friday saw it. Dan mos Nack give Chris 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:59.600 Williams four hundred dollars he had just murdered. Sam comes 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.920 back and says, here, Chris, here's money, and there's four 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.080 and according to the records, Chris says, here's twenty dollars. 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:12.360 Hold on and Chris gives him the money and then 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.560 he takes off, and half an hour later he gets 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.520 a call from Rachel and says, by the way, you 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.040 dropped twenty dollars, why don't you come and pick it up? 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:27.560 And essentially that's what I've heard that's on Friday, that 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:29.679 every bone in his body told him not to go 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.159 back there, that he said something was wrong because she 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.600 saw me hand them with twenty. I didn't drop a twenty. 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.800 I handed it to them for food. And he said her, 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.320 do you want me to come back because of the 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.880 money issue? And she said no, it's something else. I 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.280 believe she was trying to lure him back, as do police, 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.520 because she realized he was the only one that saw 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.840 Dan leave with Sam. But that was just another indication 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.119 to me that revealed that a she's capable of luring 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:04.480 people and be She could have very easily been part 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.440 of the plan if she was willing to make that call. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.840 Why else would she put the blame on Sam? Say, oh, 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.439 Dan could have given the money to Sam, because it 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.639 falls in line with their whole story. They wanted Sam 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:21.040 to be the man on the run. He had it 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.360 out with Julie and there was some kind of love triangle. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.199 He kills Julie, he's on the run. He had this 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.760 pass that once he was charged with murder, he's the 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.800 perfect candidate for our new tail, are you know our 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.520 new play? The night they arrested Dan for bank fraud 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.600 because they still thought your son was the prime target, right, 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.520 They couldn't find him, so they brought Dan and thinking 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.040 he was hiding Sam or helping Sam. So he was 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.359 at that point just being charged with bank fraud. That's 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:55.520 the same early morning when you know she's being walked 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:57.480 to the car after they brought her in for questioning 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.200 and she said, oh, by the way, Detective morale Us, 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.320 did you look into Sam's past. It's all part of 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.879 this story, this narrative that they came up with well 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.240 before the murders. Why Sam was going to be their 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:14.560 target I'll leave it at that. We certainly know that 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:19.399 Dan was luring Julie to Sam's apartment on Sam's phone. 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:24.360 Sam's phone was more archaic, a flip phone, where Dan's 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.480 was a more state of the art phone. Not only 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:31.399 that he was luring Julie after he spoke to Rachel, 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.600 after he came home and he came with Rachel. Prior 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:38.440 to that, Dan was texting with Julie. He was posing 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:41.800 as Sam, but it was light bantering, has nothing to 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:44.440 do about luring. Until after he came out. It went 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.880 from just like you say, friendly banter. How are you doing, 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.120 what's going on? What's your day? Like blah blah blah too? 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:53.920 Where are you going to be? When can you be? 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:57.359 When can you meet me? I'm in trouble, I'm in pain, 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.600 I'm suffering. I need to talk to someone, no sex. 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:05.000 When can I meet with you? That the intensity shifted 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.680 as soon as he came home, brought that money to Chris, 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:13.640 and then was with Rachel. It's what police believe instigated 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:19.159 the murder of Julie because they surmised that Rachel saw 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:23.600 the text that Dan sent to Julie as Sam, where 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:27.000 he said I'm with my neighbor Dan, we're moving furniture 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:31.880 in the theater, So at that point police feel that 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:36.640 Rachel felt it was time to do something about Julie 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.280 because he put himself as the last person with Sam. 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.480 One of my interviews in this case was with a 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:46.120 gentleman named Dave Barnhard, who was very close with Dan 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:48.720 and Rachel at the time of the murders, and he 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:53.680 shared with me that he in fact had a budding 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:58.800 relationship with Julie Cabuishi, and that they had actually consummated 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.480 that relationship just two nights before the murders. Back in 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:10.040 and I was told by several people that Rachel also 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.639 had interests in Dave, would actually play with him and 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:17.080 tease him, and and that she knew that Dave had 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.880 a serious crush on her. Whether or not that relationship 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:24.600 was a consummated or not is still something I haven't 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:29.240 been able to firmly verify. While Dave Barnhard did say 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:33.960 to me that he did not consummate that relationship with Rachel, 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:38.280 he confessed to a mutual friend, Ruben Manacho, that he 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.480 did have an affair with her. I felt it was 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:46.320 important to share that with Detective Michael Cohen, who was 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:49.399 one of the lead detectives on the Wozniak murder case, 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:54.439 because I wondered if maybe jealousy was a factor in 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:57.879 Julie's murder given what was written on the back of 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:02.480 her sweater, and he time, you have a jealousy factor 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:04.920 when in the case with Rachel, she always thought that 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:09.159 she would control men with her feminine wiles and that 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:11.760 she was sort of the focus of any man's attention. 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:16.439 And to find out that potentially she might not be 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:21.960