1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Quody diamonds, but Joseph's gotten more. My grandparents lived in Monroe, Louisiana. 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: I was actually born there. I've got half my family's 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: up in North Louisiana. The other halse do in South Louisiana. 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: And some of my fondest remembrances were hanging out with 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: my grandpa on Saturday mornings. It was Saturday mornings were 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: from my I calling Papa, were for my Papa. Sunday 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: mornings for my Grandma. What made Saturday so special is 8 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: we did two things. We went to the sail barn 9 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: because he raised horses and mules, and then we went 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: to the barbershop, and it was a weekly event for him. 11 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: This man didn't go a week without getting a haircut. 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: Men of his generation did that. And what's so special 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: was it wasn't just the fact that you went to 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: the barbershop to get a haircut. It was the fact 15 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: that all the old guys just like Papa were in 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: there and guess what they were doing, swapping tails. And 17 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: I learned more sitting around with those older gentlemen, hanging out, 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: listening to my papa whole forth and listening to them 19 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: telling him he was full of it. It was a 20 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: grand time. But you know, the one thing remains with 21 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: my grandfather. His haircut always remained the same. When he 22 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: would go in there, he would look the same, except 23 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 1: his hair would be a little bit shorter, at least 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: until the next Saturday. But what if you had a 25 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: suspected double murderer walk in to a hair salon, not 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: so that he could chat, not so that he could reminisce, 27 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: not so that he could shoot the bull, but so 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: that he could change his appearance so no one would 29 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: know who he was. Today on Bodybags, we're going to 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: explore a most disturbing case of a double homicide that 31 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: was committed in front of two young children. I'm Joseph 32 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. You know, Dave. Since 33 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: I was little, I had heard about Devil's Den in Arkansas. 34 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: I said that I lived in Monroe when I was little, 35 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: and it's right near the Arkansas border. My grandfather's people 36 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: were from Drew County, Arkansas, which is like Monaicello. It's 37 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: down in the southern part. But you know, my grandfather 38 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: had nephews that had worked in the what was it 39 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: called FDR set. These things up the workers, you know, 40 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: during the depression, where they would go out and they 41 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: would build build these projects w WPA. Is that what 42 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: it was? Work? Yeah, I think that's what it was. 43 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: And a couple of his nephews had worked up in 44 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: Devil's Den. It was actually a creation of the Roosevelt administration. 45 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: And creating jobs for people who were out of work. 46 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I never got to go there, 47 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: but I always heard about how beautiful it was. Particularly 48 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: they've got this gorgeous waterfall that it's up there. There's 49 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: a lot of caves. It's associated with Confederacy, particularly Confederate guerrillas. 50 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: There have been fights up there and all that sort 51 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: of stuff. Isolated area Man and the southern Ozark's Ozark 52 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: Mountain Range, and it sounds so peaceful. But Dave, I've 53 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: got to tell you, brother, what happened up there just 54 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: a few days ago is anything but peaceful. And it's 55 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: something that I know of. Certainly, two kids that were 56 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: there and another kid that was not there, they're going 57 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: to be left scarred for the rest of their lives. 58 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Devil's Den State Park. 59 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to be honest with you, Joe, there's a 60 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 3: couple of things I avoid. Yeah, if you call something 61 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 3: Devil's Den, yeah, I'm not going. There's no need I don't. 62 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 3: I don't fence with the devil. And if I come 63 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: to in numbers, like when we have to number something, 64 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 3: I don't number six sixty six. 65 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: I R six six five sixty six seven. That's just me. 66 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: So when something devilish happens in Devil's Den, hey man, 67 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 3: it just is. 68 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: It's shocking to me. 69 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: That this happened in such a way that the description 70 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: is this, well, you know it started. I went back 71 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: to hear the original or the initial transmission between the 72 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: officers and dispatch, because I wanted to know we were 73 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 3: hearing so many different things, so many different stories, because 74 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 3: it isn't a rural area. You had multiple different groups working. 75 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 3: You had the Sheriff's department, you had the Forestry Service, 76 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 3: you had police, state patrol. There are four or five 77 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 3: different agencies that all had something to do, and you 78 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: had at least the killing of two people that they thought, 79 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 3: but the first reports show because they came from two children, 80 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 3: all right, two little girls, a nine year old and 81 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 3: a seven year old are running through the park when 82 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 3: a couple of hikers run into them, and the girls say, 83 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 3: we need help, and they're trying to get The hikers 84 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: are trying to get what's going on from this nine 85 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 3: year old and seven year old, and they're not really 86 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: getting the full story because I don't know how you 87 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: describe something like that. I don't know how I would 88 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 3: describe it to somebody else, show much less a seven 89 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: or nine year old. 90 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: Yeah no, And can you imagine trying to and you know, 91 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: and it's not like the hikers are necessarily train first responders, 92 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: right naturally, they're they're relaxing, doing the train to help 93 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: some kids. Yeah no, And this is this is truly 94 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: a hiking area. It's got trails that there's actually an 95 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: old abandoned city there. Wow, that kind of vanished. The 96 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: only thing that remains of the old I say city 97 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: little village is the graveyard and the foundation of the homes. 98 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: And I think it was wiped out by flood back 99 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: in the eighteen nineties. 100 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 3: If you could have been the mud flood to got 101 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 3: rid of the tartarians at any rate, though, Joe, here's 102 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: the thing. You've got a nine year old and a 103 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: seven year old. They're about a half mile inside the 104 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: camp on a trail when two hikers find out, okay, 105 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 3: your parents are hurt. So they take them to the 106 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 3: entrance to the park to a ranger. And the first 107 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 3: transmission that I heard it was from the rangers trying 108 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 3: to you know, they're basically calling nine to one one 109 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 3: to get all agencies involved, because we know we've got 110 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 3: some parents hurt. We've got two girls, you know, that 111 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 3: are on their own say their parents are hurt. Maybe 112 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 3: one of them was not sure, maybe one stabbed, and 113 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 3: so that's what they went to. And as the police 114 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: and other people are coming together, it was kind of 115 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 3: weird listening to the transmissions because they're all identifying themselves 116 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: with what county they're from or what agency they're from, 117 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 3: which is always coded in numbers. 118 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: And there was one. 119 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: Guy in particular that was in the park and he 120 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: was talking to somebody else on their radio. They were 121 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 3: on there's a lower end and an upper end of 122 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: the trail, and he said, well, let's you know. They 123 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 3: were asking where do you want us to go, and 124 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 3: he said, y'all take the lower end. We'll come up 125 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: this way. And as they're searching because they don't know 126 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: the girls didn't know exactly where they came from. You know, 127 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: the seven year old nine year old were found in 128 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 3: the park alone. So as they're hiking in to try 129 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: to find out, it's really difficult to imagine. And one 130 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 3: of the searchers says, I hear screaming. I hear somebody 131 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: screaming for help, and we're towards the end of the trail, 132 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: and the guy says, I hear it too, And by 133 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: the time they get to the bottom, they find the bodies. 134 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: So the bodies of the parents now, of the nine 135 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 3: year old and seven year old. And we're not talking 136 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: old people here, we're talking young, A young couple. Well, 137 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: forty one and forty three sounds young to me, Yeah, 138 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 3: it does to me too. But you mentioned the horror 139 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 3: of the nine year old, the little girls, and they 140 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 3: have an older child that was not with them. I 141 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 3: believe she's a teen, but she wasn't there, and thankfully so, 142 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 3: because she's going to have to be the rock for 143 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 3: the nine year old and the seven year old as 144 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 3: they grow up without their parents. Now, but Joe, this 145 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 3: is an ambush. Two people are four people, two adults, 146 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: two children are walking on a trail. 147 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: A guy. 148 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: A guy comes out of the woods somewhere with a 149 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: knife and attacks the husband clinton brink. 150 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: He attacks him first. 151 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: Mom courageously grabs the girls and takes off, running back 152 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 3: towards where their car was parked. She gets them far 153 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: enough away and tells them, y'all keep running for help. 154 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 3: Run towards the car, run for help. I'm gonna go 155 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 3: back and help dad. 156 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: This heroic mother. 157 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: Gets the girls to safety and goes back into what 158 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 3: she knows is horror. She knows her husband has been 159 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: attacked with deadly force, and she went back. Joe, all 160 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 3: I could think of is what an example of heroism. 161 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 3: She made sure the girls were safe and then she 162 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: went back. That's all we can hope for one another. 163 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 3: Take care of the kids first, then come back for me. 164 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: You know, I was shocked when I heard, because I 165 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: got to tell you, I've never heard, at least in 166 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: recent history, I've never heard of a circumstance where you've 167 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: got children involved and one parent shuffles them off to 168 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: get them into a safe area and then runs. It's 169 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: almost like running into a burning house. And unfortunately, in 170 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: this case, it had the same level of lethality to 171 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: it because this mother who had secured her kids winds 172 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: up meeting the same fate as her husband. And you know, 173 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: you try to wrap your brain around the idea that 174 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: you're just and they're kind of new to the area. 175 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: From one of us ends, the whole family had moved 176 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: moved to a location that is not really that far 177 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: away from Devil's Den State Park, and they they're probably 178 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: exploring the area. I mean, you and I have had 179 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: to relocate multiple times in our adult life, and I 180 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: don't know about your experience specifically, but when Kimmy and 181 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: I would, you know, we'd have the kids, we'd go 182 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: kind of drive around and go see what the local 183 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, what the local vibe was, what attractions are 184 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: around there. And we generally lived in rural areas for 185 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: most of our married life, and so there'd always be 186 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: like a park somewhere that might have a playground or 187 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: might have a camping area. We used to be really 188 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: big into camping. And you think about this, You're just 189 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: going out to explore this new area, you're playing on, 190 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: setting roots down in and you meet you meet this 191 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: demon that is out in the woods, just comes out 192 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: of nowhere, and I'm you know, I'm really thinking, was 193 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: this an opportunistic thing where he was just looking for 194 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: someone to kill like this couple, or was he hoping 195 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: that he would come across an adult, Now this is 196 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: really dark, an adult with a small child that he 197 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: he could have victimized in other ways. I'll put it 198 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: to you that way, and that you know, for him, 199 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: this opportunity presented itself and he just comes out like 200 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: a savage at that moment in time and starts ripping 201 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: them to tress Dad first. So you know that if 202 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: that's what is discovered here, Dave the mother is doubly heroic, 203 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: I think in the sense because Lord only knows what 204 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: he would have done with those two little girls had 205 00:12:45,280 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: they not been secured somewhere else. One of the most 206 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: difficult things about death investigation is trying to understand the 207 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: lay of the land, if you will. And there's I've 208 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: had I've had colleagues that were better at working cases 209 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: inside of structures. People don't really break it down this 210 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: way many times, but this is the truth. That were 211 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: better at working cases inside of structures, and I've had 212 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: other ones that were better at working cases outside, you know, 213 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: in you know, wild wooded areas, and it's a it 214 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,599 Speaker 1: is David's. It's certainly a skill set. You want to 215 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: be all things to all people, but we can't be 216 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: all things to all people. That's one of the reasons 217 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: that for people that practice in forensics, when you see 218 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: shows like you know the Letters that will never be 219 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: mentioned in my classroom CSI. When you see the shows, 220 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: you have these amalgams of characters that that are doing 221 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: multiple jobs. That one of those shops would take twenty 222 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: years to perfect your craft, and can you imagine doing 223 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: multiple of them at that level. It's the same thing 224 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: with being a death investigare on seeing there, I mean 225 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: and lookt to You got to take whatever call or 226 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: whatever case comes up. You don't have a choice. It's 227 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: an indoor scene. That's the only work. It doesn't work 228 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: like that. But there are certain people that are just 229 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: better at it than other folks. They let me ask you, 230 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: they can understand and read the topography outside. 231 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 3: Perhaps that's kind of what I'm curious about, because when 232 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: you have a case like this, Joe, where to finish 233 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 3: off the fact that there was an ambush attack with 234 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 3: a knife, the husband Clinton is killed with a knife. 235 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: We assume and then you know, when his wife goes back, 236 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: she is also killed with a knife. The little girls 237 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: get away thankfully. Now the suspect here gets out of 238 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 3: the park, and you have the scene where the two 239 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 3: people have died or you know, we know they're dead now. 240 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 3: But as an investigator, as they arrive on scene, we 241 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 3: know they're concerned about where did the bad guy go? 242 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 3: But don't they have to protect everything about this area 243 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: where these bodies are found. Because a knife is hand 244 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 3: to hand combat. I mean, even if you stab somebody 245 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 3: wants or slash them, there's going to be falling down, 246 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 3: There's going to be others, there's gonna be multiple areas 247 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 3: that touch your body and blood and things like that. 248 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, well said, and that's certainly a consideration. And listen, 249 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: everything outside. I want people to really hear me on this. 250 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: Everything outside, particularly in a wooded area, like in a 251 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: forested area like this, where you've got where you've got 252 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: you know these trails that run through and you've got 253 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: these beautiful because they're not going to go in there 254 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: cutting down trees. This is not like they're going to 255 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: harvest trees in here. This is for the purpose of beauty. 256 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: So you've probably got old growth that's in there. You've 257 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: got that real loamy soil. There's leaves that are nobody's 258 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: going through there, and raking leaves. They might blow off 259 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: the walk, you know, the trail, they might blow it 260 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: off in the fall, but you're going to have stacks 261 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: of leaves that are there. One of the first things 262 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: kind of that you look for. Particularly you mentioned this 263 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: idea of hand to hand mono and mono, you know, 264 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: kind of contact you're going to look there's something interesting 265 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: that happens. You'll see scuff marks and you see them 266 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: inside houses on like floors many times, particularly out in 267 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: the woods where you've got again I'll use the term loamy, 268 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: that kind of loamy soil. You can see where people 269 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: have made contact with the ground furiously and they're pushing, 270 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: and you'll see huge clumps of dirt that are pushed 271 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: in one direction. And if the underlying, like the top 272 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: layer of the leaves, that strata is pushed aside, you 273 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: can actually see shoe impressions in that loan. So you 274 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: have to you really I use this termalot. Forgive me, 275 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: but I pretend I'm in a minefield. When I'm out 276 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 1: there because everywhere you step there's a potential of and 277 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: you know, like footprints, just footprints themselves, they're so fragile, 278 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: you know, because you're looking at the tread that's there. 279 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: The smallest disruption can blow a specific identifier that's left 280 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: behind by the wear of the shoes. And the wear 281 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: of the shoes, the things that translate from those shoes 282 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: are like wear patterns. Do they walk on the inside 283 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: of the outside of their feet? Pronate soupin eate at 284 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: what's the level of wear on the shoes? Are they 285 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: new shoes? Because new shoes look different than old shoes. 286 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: That might be the same brand, but they're going to 287 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: look different. Here's another thing that will blow your mind. 288 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: With knife attacks, as we know very bloody affairs, Well, 289 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: if you're inside an apartment day, it's kind of easy 290 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: to pick up on blood droplets or blood deposition that's 291 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: done dynamically. But dude, you're talking about on the surface 292 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: of leaves. You know, you're on the surface of plants. 293 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: Say there's a patch of poison oak right there, which 294 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: is not beyond the pail in this and the leaves 295 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: it drops on there, Well, are you going to be 296 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: able to see that and understand what that is. Are 297 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: you going to consider that because you're so far outside 298 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: of your comfort zone many times when you're in these 299 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 1: environments and it's ever changing, and the worst thing that 300 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: can happen to you out in this environment for me 301 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: working outdoor scenes is the rumble of thunder in the distance. 302 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: So you're having to compete with mother nature. You've got 303 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: wind that blows through there, you've got rainstorms that come 304 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: through there, and then you've got people not knowing where 305 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: to put their feet. Yeah, yeah, many times I still don't, 306 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: and it's something you have to I say, still don't. 307 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: I don't go out as seen anymore. But you know, 308 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: you consider that, and oh, by the bye, you've got 309 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: a madman on the Loosese and you're going to have 310 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: to You're going to have to bring perhaps dogs through 311 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: that area that are going to try to catch a scent. 312 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: You've got you've got guys that are dog handlers. You've 313 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: got people that are on search teams. They're not forensic people, 314 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: and I'm not disparaging them. I'm just saying they're there. 315 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: The purpose right now is because I don't know how 316 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: many other people are occupying the space for all I know, 317 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: he's going to go to campsite to campsite and start 318 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: cutting people's throats. You've got to find this guy, and so, 319 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: you know, you try to do you try to do 320 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: this balancing act in your mind. Well, what's getting trumped here? 321 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: Is it the safety of the other occupants of the 322 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: park or is it the forensic evidence. Well, to me, 323 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: the safety of everybody far surpasses the forensic evidence. You 324 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: have to take as much care as you as you can. 325 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: And that concentric area where this horrible event took place, 326 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: that's the hub, the hub of the wheel, and everything 327 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: else radiates out from there. That's the way we would 328 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: work it if we were searching the area, but searching 329 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: the area for evidence. But that's the way you have 330 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: to work if you're doing a rescue operation, Dave. 331 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 3: And now you've got blood everywhere again, back to the knife, 332 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 3: and you've got blood saturating and getting into the ground. 333 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 3: You've got every droplet of blood is evidence, and every 334 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 3: droplet of blood. We do know there was enough blood 335 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 3: by the suspect here at the scene they were able 336 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: to use that to help find him. And that's when 337 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 3: I was looking at this, I'm thinking, okay, because we 338 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: know that it was an ambush attack. We know that 339 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: the suspect attacked the demand first. Mom gets the two 340 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 3: girls away and comes back. So I'm wondering how long 341 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 3: that fight went on. You know, you know, Mom was 342 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 3: gone long enough to get the girls far enough away 343 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 3: that she didn't you know, she felt like she could 344 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 3: keep him safe. But then she went back to the 345 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: frat was her husband already dead, and this guy is 346 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 3: looking for her. I mean, I'm just kind of curious 347 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 3: as to what she went into and where they both 348 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: killed at the same spot or where they spread out, 349 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 3: because now you've got a crime scene that really does expand. 350 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: And you mentioned this, what's it like when you come 351 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 3: into a scene like that where the madman he might 352 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 3: be over there behind that big rock with a gun. 353 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 3: He might have a thirty guy six. Yeah, he stabbed 354 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 3: them over here, but he's sitting over here hunting deer 355 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 3: and your head is in his scope. 356 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he did that for this purpose, right, You 357 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: never know, and that's always you know, it's kind of 358 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: like the we had the uh god, the abortion clinic 359 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: bombing in Atlanta and had a lot of people, you know, 360 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: had people injured there at the clinic, and you know 361 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: they always preach this to you, secondary devices. Well, cops 362 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: rolled up and I think it was in the dumpster. 363 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: There was another device. It was it was Eric Rudolph 364 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: that did it, you know, the same guy that the 365 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: bombing yeah, in the in the Olympics, in the Olympics, 366 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: and he did another one in Birmingham, if I'm not mistaken. 367 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 3: I was on the air the morning that happened. Joe yeah, 368 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 3: and she was like blinded, I think the nurse. Yeah, 369 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 3: you know what it happened because it was one of 370 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 3: those things where click aside being a radio guy, okay, 371 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 3: doing a morning radio show. We were working with the 372 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 3: company now is known as iHeart and all of our 373 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: studios on the top of the mountain where we were 374 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 3: overlooking all of Birmingham, right, So when there was a 375 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 3: scene when they said it's you know here in the 376 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 3: five Points area, you'd actually look out the window and go, well, 377 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,479 Speaker 3: there it is. Wow, And yeah, it was that close, 378 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 3: you know, to be able to see things. It was 379 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: an amazing view. But when that happened, you know, it's 380 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 3: it's so weird how stories get covered locally versus nationally. Yeah, 381 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 3: and anyway, but that was Baric Robert Rudolph. 382 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you can be drawn in like that 383 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: and you'll have hell to pay. So you don't know 384 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: what's wow, what's outside of what you can see. They 385 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: there's no telling how long this perpetrator spin in the woods, right, 386 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: He's got to perch a hide set up, and so 387 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: that's you know, if you're if you're if you're the 388 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: commander on the scene and you're trying to make sense 389 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: of it and determine where you're going to deploy everybody 390 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: to accomplish the task first trying to find this person 391 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 1: and securing the scene. You've got multiple elements that are 392 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: working here at the same time. It's a very very 393 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: dynamic kind of environment. And when you're trying to secure 394 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: the bodies as well. Here's something interesting. No one should 395 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: ever lull themselves into a sense of peace over somebody 396 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: being stabbed to death. This is a painful, painful death. 397 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: It is not quick, okay, contrary to what people might 398 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: have you say. It's not like, you know, in the movies, 399 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: somebody gets stuck in the chest, they clutch their chest, 400 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: they fall over and they're dead. It ain't like that okay, 401 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: because first off, there's no guarantee that the individual that 402 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: does the stabbing is going to hit a critical point. 403 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: They're going to hit a painful point. They might clip 404 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: you in the lung. Well, what's going to happen if 405 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: you're clipped in the lung with a knife that's been 406 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: pulled out and he's still stabbing you, Well, you're still 407 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: alive as long as your brain is still functioning. You're 408 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: still alive to a certain point. Now, blood loss will 409 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: take over that sort of thing, but you're struggling to live, 410 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: and Dave, I've gone out on scenes before where I've 411 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: had someone trying to get into a position where they 412 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: can breathe. It's not a position of comfort, it's a 413 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: position of trying to uptake oxygen because their long has 414 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: been and you can see you can see the remnant 415 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: of the blood that is like filled with air bubbles, 416 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: and that gives you an idea that this is a 417 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: kind of a frothy event where they're blowing out the blood, 418 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: they're expiating the blood onto the ground, and they're trying 419 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: to get into a position where they's you'll see them 420 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: where they have wallowed around in their own blood. You'll 421 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: see where they roll through loose soil. They'll have leaves 422 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: attached to their bodies. You can see that this was 423 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: in their death throw and it's one of the most 424 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: horrible things. It's a very power if you take a 425 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: picture of that, coupled with the surrounding area around their body, 426 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: it's a powerful image to present in court because pathologists 427 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: can get on stand and say, do you see all 428 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: this movement that would be consistent with somebody that is 429 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: struggling to try to survive, and then you double that, 430 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, listen, I pray to the sweet Lord above 431 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: that this was quick. Okay, I truly do. I hope 432 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: that they did not, that they did not linger in 433 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: these circumstances. But if I were a betting man, I'd 434 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: say that this was not quick. I would say that 435 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: they lingered. I'd say that they suffered. There was an awareness. 436 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: So that's going to really disrupt the evidence. You know, 437 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: if you just think about we have the thing in 438 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: my friends, which I am not certified in bloodstained analysis, however, 439 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: I know enough to be kind of dangerous. One of 440 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: the things that you look for if you're carrying an 441 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: instrument like a knife Okay, you get these order for two? 442 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: Is this passive drips. So let's say you've got this 443 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: knife that is just coated in blood. You're trying to 444 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: beat feet to get away from the location. Depend upon 445 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: the pace at which you move, the blood is going 446 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: to present in different ways. Well, can you imagine walking 447 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: out into the woods and trying to find that those 448 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: dropolets of blood? You know, deer hunters, people that track animals, 449 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: they'll do that, you know, keeping Yeah, they'll shoot an animal. 450 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: Animal doesn't drop right there, They still have to go 451 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: out and find that animal, and they begin to look 452 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: for blood. Well, we're not talking about a bleeding animal now, 453 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about an individual that has blood all over them. 454 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: They're carrying an instrument, and those passive little drops to 455 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: the naked eye are not easy to pick up on. Now, 456 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: the blood around the bodies is going to be striking, 457 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: you know, you'll see it. But when whichever way this 458 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: monster decided to leave these two poor helpless parents that 459 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: are trying to take up air oxygen just so they 460 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: can survive see those babies one more time, whichever direction 461 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: he headed off in the blood could point to where 462 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: he came to be so you have two individuals to parents, 463 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: a mom and a dad that have been butchered. I'm 464 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: not going to say in the wilderness, but let's face it, 465 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: it's it's an underpopulated area. You're you're looking to try 466 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: to solve this crime. But before you can get to 467 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: the point of collecting evidence in solving crimes, you've you've 468 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: got to get this wild animal in custody. You you've 469 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: got to track this individual. If it's just one person, 470 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: you know at the time they had no idea, I mean, 471 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: who who has the ability to do this? And you 472 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: know again it would be their motivation? Well why? Yeah, 473 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: I was trying not to say why, but. 474 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: I know you hate the why work, but you know you. 475 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: Think about it and you think, well, what what in 476 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: the world would motivate them to do it? And do 477 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: they have any other plans? I think that that's that's 478 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: one of the scary things. You've got to get this 479 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: individual off the street, Dave, I was reflecting. You know, 480 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: you you had mentioned at one point in time that 481 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: the mom had gotten these kids in a safe place 482 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: and then went back, I think I said, back into 483 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: the fire. Kids ran until they couldn't hear mama screaming anymore, right, 484 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: and something struck me. I've had a reoccurrent dream throughout 485 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: my life where I was being chased, and it's the 486 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: most terrible dream. I think a lot of people have it, 487 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: the most terrible dream you can have. But this is real. 488 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: You've got these two babies that are running through the 489 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: woods trying to get to safety. Can you imagine the 490 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: fear of looking over your shoulder, your little legs are 491 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: running as fast, probably over uneven terrain, by the way, 492 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: trying to get to safety, not knowing where you're coming 493 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: from and not knowing where you're going. It's the stuff 494 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: of nightmares. Man. 495 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: All they had was run towards where we at the car, 496 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 3: I think, and you know, we're still getting information about this, 497 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 3: but the first thing they're trying to do after they 498 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 3: locate the bodies who did it? 499 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 2: And like you said, is it just one? What was 500 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: the plan? 501 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: I mean? 502 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 3: Was this nobody, just for no reason, attacks a family 503 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 3: of four on the trails out in the middle of 504 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 3: a state park without some kind of reason? Was the 505 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: goal to wipe out mom and dad and steal the kids? 506 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: Is that? Who this guy is? That what he was 507 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 2: thinking of? 508 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, man, I got to tell you. 509 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: I'm you know I stated earlier, is he is he 510 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: just laying in wait looking for a target that has 511 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: a small child, Because I really want to know if 512 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: this guy's a pederasted. I want to know if he 513 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: he has an affinity for small children. And here he's 514 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: got he's got opportunity at two. 515 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: Here's your Paul Harvey. Yeah, yeah, remember the rest of 516 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: the story. 517 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I sure do. Well. 518 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 3: Thankfully, there was a witness in the park that saw 519 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 3: this man running from the park and he had blood 520 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 3: on his face. Another witness sees the same guy getting 521 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 3: into a car. Now, the whole idea was to try 522 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 3: to find out what kind of car. You know, We've 523 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 3: got two dead people, two frightened children, and now we've 524 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 3: got a suspect who's already out of the park. He 525 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 3: is not in the park. He's not hunkered down somewhere 526 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 3: ready to take potshots of people, you know, in the area. 527 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 2: He's gone. 528 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 3: This is where investigators blow my mind at how from 529 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 3: the forensics Joe to the actual police work that goes 530 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 3: into it. Because they work hand in glove, and in 531 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 3: this particular case, they were able to determine early on 532 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 3: that the blood on his face and other areas as described, well, 533 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 3: there was his blood mixed in that fight. 534 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 2: They were able to determine that somehow, and. 535 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 3: That I'm wondering how that came about because I thought 536 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 3: all blood looked the same. How are you going to 537 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: tell that this is from the bad guy and this 538 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: is from I mean, are you blood typing right away? 539 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: There's not a DNA kit on the run. How do 540 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 2: they do that so fast to determine. 541 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: All hands on deck? Brother? Yeah, that's that's what I'm 542 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: telling you here. And they collected I'm imagining they collected 543 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: as much as much blood evidence at the scene as 544 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: they possibly could. And one of the first things that 545 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,479 Speaker 1: they probably got a let's see, how can I say this? 546 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: One of the first indicators when they started examining those 547 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: samples that they had there may have been some commingling 548 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: of blood too. The trick is, can you separate us 549 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: two things out where? And we still don't know the origin, 550 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, like whose blood is? Who's you know? At 551 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: this point we don't and you shouldn't to know that 552 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: that information at this point. But they were able to 553 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: determine that they had a sample from that scene that 554 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: didn't marry up with Mom and dad. They were able 555 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: and probably quite easily to do a profile on both 556 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: of them and understand, and then it's just a matter 557 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: of trying to eliminate everything that doesn't you know, walk 558 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: like a duck quack duck at that point, Tom pointing 559 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: back to a very And this is not like a 560 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: latent print man. This is very, very specific. We're talking 561 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: about in the millions and millions of odds here, all right. 562 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: So my question is I think they did mom and 563 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: dad fight back to the point where they drew blood 564 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: or did this monster injure themselves in the midst of this? 565 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: And that's you've explained to me. 566 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 3: You've explained that many times. Show how the suspect will 567 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 3: hurt themselves with the knife, and I will hurt them. 568 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 3: I remember with the O. J. Simpson thing, I thought, 569 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 3: that's an awful small cut on his finger. Based on 570 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 3: what took place, I would expect to see more damage 571 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,959 Speaker 3: than just one small cut on the guy's finger. 572 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that may be what they're looking at. 573 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 3: With this guy. But here's the rest of the story. 574 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 3: Now they identify that he's got a unique car. It's 575 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 3: a specific color and it's a sporty sedan. That was 576 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 3: kind of how they articulated this. And they're showing people 577 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 3: pictures and they identify this car as a Kia Stinger. 578 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 3: I don't know this car, but that's what it was, called, 579 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 3: the Kia Stinger, and it's black. So the first thing 580 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 3: they're doing, as they're i mean not first, they're doing 581 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 3: a lot of things. First thing, right, but one of 582 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 3: the detectives start looking for surveillance cameras, ring doorbell cameras 583 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 3: on the path leading to and from the park. You know, 584 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 3: you've got here's your entrance to the park, Here's where 585 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 3: his car was, Here's where we saw him take off. 586 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 3: So they get all the surveillance footage of all these 587 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 3: cameras and they identify here's the car. It's coming in, 588 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 3: it's coming out. They're able to get it down zeroed in. 589 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 3: The car was to face. He had actually used black 590 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 3: tape to change the marketing on it so you couldn't 591 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 3: tell that it was a Kia Stinger, and he changed 592 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 3: the license plates, so he did disguise his car a 593 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 3: little bit. But they were able to figure it out 594 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 3: enough using just basic good police work here. They were 595 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 3: able to get the camera angles and figure out what 596 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 3: kind of car it was. And then in this general area, 597 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 3: how many of these types of cars exist yep? And 598 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 3: how many are driven by a white male? 599 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, let me throw a word out to you 600 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: real quick, Okays a matter of fact, I'm going to 601 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: spell it out to you. 602 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 2: Go for you. 603 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: This this actually is evidence of I in te n T. 604 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned, if you're disguising a license 605 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: plate and an identifier on a car brand, make like 606 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: this with black tape, you're showing up with intent. Absolutely, 607 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: Lord Dave, think Okay, it's horrible enough that you've got 608 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: this beast a rising out of the forest. He's a 609 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: rising out of the forest, and he is purposed. I 610 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: submit to you once again, I wonder if he has 611 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: an attraction to children. That's really what That's really what 612 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: I'm thinking. Man. I gotta tell you. 613 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 3: Well, you're dead on accurate on that one. And I 614 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 3: would like to go to the full my cousin Vinny 615 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 3: on that one, but I would ignore that. 616 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 2: For those of you who know the movie, you know 617 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 2: what I'm saying. 618 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 3: Yes, in this particular case show they were able to 619 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 3: identify the person that was probably driving this type of vehicle. 620 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 3: They were able to narrow it down using just good 621 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 3: police work. They actually track him to a place that 622 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 3: you started with on the show today about getting his haircut. 623 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 3: Is he trying to disguise his look? We don't know 624 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 3: what he was acting actually doing, but police were able 625 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 3: to They find his car in this parking lot of 626 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 3: a hair salon, and they already know who he is. 627 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 3: They know who their suspect is, and they go in 628 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 3: to get him and they hey, we're looking for the 629 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 3: owner of this car. It's got to be moved. It's 630 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 3: balking some They were so cool about it. This guy, 631 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 3: by the way, Joe, you talking about an intent, Well, 632 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 3: he had called several different places trying to get an 633 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 3: appointment to get his hair done, but nobody would book 634 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 3: it without a name, and he wouldn't give him a name. Now, yeah, 635 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,720 Speaker 3: that's we've got a madman on the loose in the area, 636 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 3: and we've got a guy wanting his haircut, but he 637 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 3: won't tell us his name. Little hint here, right, And 638 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 3: so when they come in and he says, oh, yeah, 639 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 3: that's my car, And so he goes out there and 640 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 3: they're talking to him, right, and they're kind of catching 641 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 3: him off guard, acting like it's not a big deal, 642 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 3: just move it. And then it's like, well, you know, 643 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 3: we got to check your ID. 644 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:51,240 Speaker 2: You know, that's normal. 645 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 3: They notice cuts on his hands, and they go into 646 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 3: the car to get his license and lo and behold, 647 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 3: they see what appears to be blood. They didn't say 648 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 3: we saw blood, They say we saw something that had 649 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 3: the consistency and color we would expect. 650 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,720 Speaker 2: It looked like it might be could be maybe blood. 651 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: Those individuals have been taught well, yes, you're not supposed 652 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: to call it blood. They did here, so it could 653 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: be consistent with blood, yes, and it was yeah, And 654 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, again, it's going to be interesting to begin 655 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: to learn about these injuries on the hand and what 656 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: do they match up to, because in order to have 657 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: an injury, you have to have an instrument whether it's 658 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: somebody else's hand, whether somebody else's fingernails, whether it is 659 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: a knife or you know, I don't know, a garden rake, 660 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You have to have an instrumentality in 661 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: order to generate an injury. And if they're calling it cuts, 662 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: and again, back to what you'd said, earlier, Dave. They 663 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,320 Speaker 1: they haven't released all of the data yet. But I 664 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: got to tell you, man, this is what we refer 665 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: to I think between you because you and I have 666 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: covered cases where we had a lot less. This case 667 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: is evidence rich. I mean, this is a really heavily 668 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: deepended upon forensics case. Dave. What's this guy's name, by 669 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: the way. 670 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 3: I don't really want to say it out loud, because 671 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 3: I know we're going to have to say it a bunch. 672 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,959 Speaker 2: Andrew McGann. He's twenty eight year old. 673 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 3: And Joe. He's an elementary school teacher. Andrew mcgahann has 674 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 3: he's twenty eight. He's already been in four different school systems, 675 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 3: five different schools, and had switched again. And the reason 676 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 3: he had to keep moving is cause eight complaints from 677 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 3: parents about him being touchy feely with the kids. Girls 678 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 3: in particular. He even would tickle them, which there's actually 679 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 3: a fetish about tickling. 680 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of it. Him. 681 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, well we can tell you and I spend way 682 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 3: too much time around Bethany. 683 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 2: No, I'm coming from Karen. 684 00:40:58,680 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: In some of these cases. 685 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 3: Well, he's one. He's exactly what you thought he was. 686 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 3: Now whether he was trying to separate the girls, I 687 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 3: don't know. 688 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 2: I would. 689 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 3: I'm kind of thinking that he had come on glued 690 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 3: and saw the parents. Maybe he only saw one of 691 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 3: the girls. I don't know, But whatever happened, he did 692 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,839 Speaker 3: not expect the fight he got. He just, you know what, 693 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 3: he set up to kill the wrong people, because Dad 694 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 3: fought the man long enough that Mom could get the 695 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 3: girls away, and Mom didn't leave him alone. She went 696 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 3: back to try to save his life and bought the 697 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 3: girls even more time. Parents did what we would hope 698 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 3: as parents we would all do. We would put ourselves 699 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 3: between mad man and life for our children, and they did. 700 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 3: Finding out the guy has been suspended from his job, 701 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 3: where he goes allowed to resign is going to be 702 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 3: a problem for the school systems because he had never 703 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 3: actually been fired Joe, but he mysteriously had a number 704 00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 3: of jobs in a very short window of time, all 705 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,240 Speaker 3: with little children. 706 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and here's the other thing. He's floated between 707 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: three states. You know. He he started out in Oklahoma. 708 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: I think he was actually a graduate of OSHU. He 709 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: had he had one entry that said go pokes, which 710 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: is there, you know, uh like cow polks. That's their 711 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: their you know mascot. He you know, drifts from there 712 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: down into Texas. I think he may have been in 713 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: Plano at one point, Tom and all of a sudden 714 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: he's going to land in in uh in Arkansas and 715 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,240 Speaker 1: there's one you know, he had applied in one one 716 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: jurisdiction or one district, and they said that he's not suited. 717 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: Now I don't know what that means. They had apparently 718 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,760 Speaker 1: done there, because you know, you can only migrate around 719 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: to these places so many times before, you know, particularly 720 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: now in the world of social media and these people 721 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: that hire, hire and fire people. If you've got a 722 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: social media platform out there, if your name is mentioned 723 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: and what you had said is key here, I wonder 724 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: how many parents in these other locations went on said 725 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: this guy and I'm imitating a keyboard right now, is creepy. 726 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: He doesn't need to be around kids. Well, maybe in 727 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: a search this pops up and the people in the 728 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: one jurisdiction you notice that, Well, he probably is not 729 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,879 Speaker 1: something we somebody we'd want to bring on board. It's 730 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: one of those chicken or the egg scenarios. Did he 731 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: did he or let's say, is this a chicken or 732 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 1: the egg scenario. Even at a young age, would somebody 733 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: like him, maybe similar to him, decide that I'm going 734 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 1: to go into teaching because that'll put me near kids, 735 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: or is this something that evolved over a period of 736 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: time where they had an awareness that, oh, I'm going 737 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 1: to have access to kids, think I'll tickle them, you know. 738 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: I think he had asked, allegedly had asked one or 739 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: told one of the young girls he wishes that she 740 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,879 Speaker 1: could be his girlfriend. And he's Dave, he's teaching elementary 741 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: as age kids. 742 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 3: Yep, there's actually said yeah, actually said I wish I 743 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 3: could be your boyfriend. It's a lot different than saying 744 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,760 Speaker 3: I wish you would be my girlfriend. He was telling 745 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 3: this little eight nine year old girl, I wish I 746 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 3: could be your boyfriend, hoping she would say, oh you can. 747 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is on another plane at this 748 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: point in time. I can tell you that the more 749 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: information that comes out about this guy, we're going to 750 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:53,359 Speaker 1: find more about him. I think in Oklahoma, Texas, people 751 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: that he associated with in Oklahoma even while he was 752 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,839 Speaker 1: in school, We're going to hear about more of these 753 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: interactions that he had with parents and students. Unfortunately, who 754 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: we will not be hearing from in the future are 755 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: going to be these two parents who were butchered, butchered 756 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 1: and left to die in this remote area, Kristen Brink 757 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 1: forty one, Clinton Brink forty three, leaving leaving behind three kids, 758 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 1: two of which witnessed this monster at work. We're going 759 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,280 Speaker 1: to keep you updated on this case. I can promise 760 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: you that I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.