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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four

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Speaker 1: fourteen and tay the show. I'm joined by the one

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Speaker 1: and only Randy Newburgh to explore the current state of

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Speaker 1: affairs of public lands in America and the topics, issues,

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Speaker 1: and policies that we hunters need to be paying attention

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Speaker 1: to and taking action on. All right, welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Wired Hunt Podcast, brought to you by First Light, and today,

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Speaker 1: like I mentioned, we've got my buddy Randy Newburgh on

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Speaker 1: the show, and Randy is gonna help us kick off

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Speaker 1: what I'm thinking of as Conservation Month here on the

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Speaker 1: Wired Hunt Podcast. It's the month of April. Got Earth

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Speaker 1: Day coming up this month. You know, we're a long

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Speaker 1: ways off from deer hunting season. It's that kind of

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Speaker 1: time of year, at least for me, when I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about I don't know, spring, the renewal of the year,

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Speaker 1: new growth, new birth of fauns and turkeys and all

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Speaker 1: those different things. It just got me thinking about I

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Speaker 1: don't know about giving back, about the importance of what

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Speaker 1: I just mentioned conservation. If we as hunters want to

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Speaker 1: be able to have a good time out in the

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Speaker 1: field and fill our freezers and have wild places to

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Speaker 1: explore and deer to chase, well it's on us to

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Speaker 1: make sure that those things are around. And that's why

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Speaker 1: hunters for so long have been some of the most

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Speaker 1: impactful conservationists in the entire country. So this month I

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Speaker 1: want to talk through and explore a variety of different

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Speaker 1: topics along those lines. Today it's gonna be public lands.

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Speaker 1: Later this month we might be exploring some things like

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Speaker 1: on the groundwork we can be doing to improve habitat

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Speaker 1: and and to help deer another ecs. We're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about national level stuff, We're gonna talk about state level stuff. Uh,

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Speaker 1: explore a variety of different things. But today it's public land.

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Speaker 1: If you hunt deer on public land, or if you

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Speaker 1: have dreams of heading out west to hunt for elk

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Speaker 1: or bears or mule deer, pronghorn, if you want to

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Speaker 1: go out to these places, whether being the Smoky Mountains

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Speaker 1: of the Rocky Mountains of the Cascades and and go

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Speaker 1: backpacking or camping, if you want to have places I

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Speaker 1: don't know wild beautiful rivers to go rafting or fishing,

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Speaker 1: any and all that stuff. It depends on our public lands.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about this a lot over the years in

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Speaker 1: the podcast, but this is a topic that evolves every

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Speaker 1: single year. There's new things going on. There's new opportunities,

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Speaker 1: there's new threats, there's new policies being proposed, there's new

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Speaker 1: bills being moved through Congress. There's new stuff going on

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Speaker 1: at all levels. And one of the people who is

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Speaker 1: more up to speed on that kind of stuff than

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Speaker 1: anyone else in our hunting community is Randy Newburgh. I

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Speaker 1: think most of you guys and girls know Randy, but

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Speaker 1: if not, he is, Oh gosh, he's all over the place.

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Speaker 1: You can be watching his show on YouTube or Amazon.

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Speaker 1: You can be listening to his podcast. You can be

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Speaker 1: following him on Instagram, his forum, hunt Talk Radio, as

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Speaker 1: the podcast on your Own Adventures Fresh Tracks. He's got

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff out there. He's been doing great

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Speaker 1: work when it comes to entertainment, but also educating folks

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Speaker 1: on the importance of public lands, the importance of conservation,

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Speaker 1: and and ways that we can actually um you know,

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Speaker 1: take action as people on the ground. He's been one

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Speaker 1: of those leading voices and today, you know, that's why

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to him. I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to Randy about where we stand right now with public lands.

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Speaker 1: How have things progressed over the last five years, What

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Speaker 1: are the good things? What are the best things that

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Speaker 1: have happened over the last five years, And what are

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Speaker 1: some of the things that have been done, maybe a

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Speaker 1: little bit behind the scenes, that have been damaging to

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Speaker 1: our wild places. What are those things we need to

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Speaker 1: be keeping tabs on and trying to fix what's coming

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Speaker 1: on the line now? You know, there's the pendulum as

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Speaker 1: far as politics has swung again. So what threats do

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Speaker 1: we need to be watching out over the next four years.

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Speaker 1: What opportunities do we have over the next four years.

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Speaker 1: We talked about all that and a whole lot more.

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Speaker 1: It was a great conversation. I really enjoyed this. It

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Speaker 1: was helpful for me. I think you will feel the

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Speaker 1: same way, and and I'm just glad that Randy was

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Speaker 1: able to take the time to chat. So I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed this one. I hope you'll be tuning in

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the month, as we're gonna cover

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of different things along these lines that

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Speaker 1: I think will be relevant to all of us deer

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Speaker 1: hunters and and any one of us that love wild places,

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Speaker 1: wild critters, and and all things in between. So that's

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Speaker 1: what's in store to date. Real quick. Before we get

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Speaker 1: onto that, and kind of along these same lines of conservation,

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Speaker 1: I want to give you a quick update on something

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Speaker 1: new that has just dropped from our pals at first

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Speaker 1: LFE just launched the Camo for Conservation Initiative. The basic

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Speaker 1: gist of this is is, as most of you probably

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Speaker 1: know if you listen to this podcast, First Light launched

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Speaker 1: a white Tail specific camera pattern this past fall. Just

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Speaker 1: this week, that camera pattern is available to buy on

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Speaker 1: some of the white Tail gear, So if if you're

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Speaker 1: looking for that kind of stuff, it is available now

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Speaker 1: on the first website. But what's really cool is that

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Speaker 1: this Camera for Conservation initiative launched at the same time

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Speaker 1: in which First Light is penciling in a certain percentage

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Speaker 1: of proceeds from every sale of specter gear. So if

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Speaker 1: there's a shirt, print, inspector pants, hat, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: a percent of every one of those sales is going

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Speaker 1: to be donated to the National Deer Association. It's going

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Speaker 1: to them to help with habitat, work, to help with

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Speaker 1: their field, the four Hunter Mentorship program, to help with

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Speaker 1: all the different things that in the ND eight is

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Speaker 1: doing to make sure that we have deer and deer

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Speaker 1: habitat and the deer hunting traditions that matter so much

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Speaker 1: to all of us. So I'm personally it's really excited

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Speaker 1: about that because those are things that I really care about,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad to see the first light and the

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Speaker 1: company I work for, Meat Eater, is stepping up and

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Speaker 1: you know, putting our putting our money where our mouth

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Speaker 1: is and and I'm proud of that and excited about that.

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Speaker 1: So that's uh, that's my little update that I'm personally

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Speaker 1: excited to share. And otherwise I think I should stop

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Speaker 1: beating around the bush. Let's get to my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Randy Newberg. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being here with me, Thanks for tuning in, and here

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Speaker 1: we go. All right with me. Now back on the

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Speaker 1: show is Randy Newberg. Randy, welcome back, Mark, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for having me. I can't believe that anyone would

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Speaker 1: ask me back for a second ord for whatever time.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Oh man, the the thank you

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Speaker 1: goes right back to you. And um, I gotta tell

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Speaker 1: you this is kind of crazy. When I was thinking

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Speaker 1: through this conversation and what I was hoping we could

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Speaker 1: talk about, I thought to myself, and let's look back

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Speaker 1: and see what I talked to Randy about last time,

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Speaker 1: or you know, see how far things it comes since

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Speaker 1: we last talked. And I went back to my archives

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to look, and I'm thinking, man, it

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Speaker 1: must have been last year was on. I was looking

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Speaker 1: through there and nothing, and then I thought, well, maybe

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Speaker 1: two years before that. And I went back and looked,

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Speaker 1: and I realized, I can't believe this. You haven't been

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Speaker 1: on the show since two thousands seventeen. Unless I'm missing something,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how that's possible, um,

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Speaker 1: but but it's it's it's a horrible overset on my part.

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Speaker 1: So I cannot imagine that that much time has passed

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Speaker 1: and we haven't had you on the podcast. I'm just

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Speaker 1: glad that you're finally back, and uh, glad that we

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Speaker 1: can talk some more. Because every time, you know, whether

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Speaker 1: it's on a podcast or coffee or whatever. I really

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Speaker 1: honestly appreciate and take something from every one of our conversations. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I'm looking forward to this one, righty. Well, thanks Mark.

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Speaker 1: That goes both ways. But since two thousands seventeen, your

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Speaker 1: subscriber base in your listening audience probably grew by mounds,

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Speaker 1: just master or not my growth since since since I

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Speaker 1: wasn't on there, So I guess I've been. I've been

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Speaker 1: known to ruin a brand in a half an hour. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll see how much damage you can do, Randy, let's

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Speaker 1: test the lit it. But thanks for having me Mark.

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Speaker 1: I I enjoy the times we do get to catch up,

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Speaker 1: whether it's on a podcast or just on the phone

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Speaker 1: or whatever. It's uh, it's always very helpful for me. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, since you were first on the show. I

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Speaker 1: think I first hedge on the show back in I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it was probably of fifteen maybe, And at

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Speaker 1: that point was when I was kind of going through

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Speaker 1: a little bit of an awakening of understanding what was

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Speaker 1: going on around me in the world of public lands.

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Speaker 1: And I was, you know, learning so much about um

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Speaker 1: public land policy and various contingencies and folks that were

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Speaker 1: less uh, supportive of public lands, and I was, and

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Speaker 1: this is when the land transfer movement was really picking

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Speaker 1: up steam, and I was looking to you for a

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Speaker 1: lot of insight on that. And and obviously you've been

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Speaker 1: in that world for decades before I had, and obviously

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Speaker 1: are so well versed on it. So at that point

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Speaker 1: we're kind of at this There was this rising concern

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Speaker 1: around public lands and the land transfer movement. And now

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Speaker 1: you fast forward, you know, almost six years and and

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Speaker 1: we're in a a different place. And I'm curious if

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Speaker 1: you were to take a step back and look at

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Speaker 1: how far we have come, whether it be the hunting community. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'll do a two part how we've how far we've

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Speaker 1: come as a hunting community and as just a public

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Speaker 1: land you know this the oh gosh, I'm blanking on

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Speaker 1: the right work here, But where we stand on public

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Speaker 1: lands as far as from now, if you had to

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Speaker 1: take a look back and say, okay, how far have

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Speaker 1: we come? And are we in a better place, a

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Speaker 1: worse place, the same kind of place? How do you

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Speaker 1: feel like if you were to put your finger on

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Speaker 1: the pulse of that randy, how do we compare now?

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Speaker 1: Pair to them? All Right, I've when you're there doing

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Speaker 1: it and you got your head down and you're fighting

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Speaker 1: this battle and that battle and pushing the wagon up

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Speaker 1: the hill, you you really think, I'm we're not making

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Speaker 1: any progress. This is such laborious, just tedious effort. And

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Speaker 1: now when you get to measure it in five year

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Speaker 1: ten year windows, you look back and say, all right,

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Speaker 1: two thousand, two thousand fifteen, the folks who wanted to

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Speaker 1: grab our public lands and take them have pretty much

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Speaker 1: retreated because once again they got their political teeth handed

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Speaker 1: to them by thinking the public was somehow going to

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Speaker 1: forget the value these lands have. And if you could

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Speaker 1: have told me in two thousand and fourteen that we

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Speaker 1: would have elevated the public land issue within the hunting community,

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Speaker 1: with the within the total outdoor community to the level

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Speaker 1: it it is at right now, that that would have

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Speaker 1: cleared my my greatest wish by a mile. I because

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Speaker 1: it just at the time it seems so daunting and

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Speaker 1: so so much momentum to the other side and so

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Speaker 1: little to our side. And through a lot of hard work,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people showing how much they care, how

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Speaker 1: much they're concerned, uh getting the attention of policy leaders

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Speaker 1: who said oh, this was not a good idea. Who

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Speaker 1: talked us into this idea? Uh? Here we are six

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Speaker 1: seven years later, and I'm I'm impressed, very very impressed

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Speaker 1: with how well versed the hunting community is and and

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Speaker 1: to some degree, the total outdoor community, but also how

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Speaker 1: engaged we are when we feel that there are issues

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Speaker 1: that are going to hurt or or complicate our ability

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Speaker 1: to enjoy these public lands. It's Uh, it's been an

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Speaker 1: interesting journey, but we've traveled away further than I could

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Speaker 1: have ever dreamed. Yeah. So if if we were I

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Speaker 1: don't know, doing like an award show of the last

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Speaker 1: five years, and you were gonna rank the biggest win

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Speaker 1: of this five year, has half day decade period from

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Speaker 1: a public land perspective, Like, what's been our biggest win?

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Speaker 1: Do you think? Um, there's been a lot, there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of good things have happened, But what ranks

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Speaker 1: up to the top for you? Um? Boy? That's that's

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Speaker 1: interesting that you say it in a like an award show,

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Speaker 1: because I would be like, okay, Rookie of the Year,

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Speaker 1: a defensive mb P, m v P offensive m v P.

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Speaker 1: Can your whole team if you want, Okay, I'll start

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Speaker 1: with the defensive m v P. And what I look

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Speaker 1: at there is there are Senate elections, at least in

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Speaker 1: there in the West, where the balance of those elections

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Speaker 1: hang on those swing voters in the middle and how

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Speaker 1: they're going to vote based on public land issues. And

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at uh, Montana, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada. Right

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Speaker 1: there are eight senators who we've we've seen them all

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Speaker 1: cycle through their elections in the last six or seven years,

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Speaker 1: and those eight Senate seats have all bent over backwards

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Speaker 1: almost tried to prove who's the most pro public land.

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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, you know, from a defensive standpoint, we've

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Speaker 1: built a pretty good wall here now in some parts

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Speaker 1: of the country, and and we see it even expanding

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Speaker 1: to other states Washington, Oregon, UH to some degree in

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Speaker 1: the Dakotas. And you know some of our greatest public

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Speaker 1: land at the cats have been from the south. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, Senator Richard Burr was he he doesn't get

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Speaker 1: enough credit, I don't think for how much of a

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Speaker 1: stick in the mud he was when many others wanted

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Speaker 1: him to fold his tent on public lands issues. And

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Speaker 1: here he is a guy from North Carolina, it's like, what,

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Speaker 1: why is he this passionate about it? So I look

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Speaker 1: at that and I think from the defensive side, Uh,

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Speaker 1: whether we're giving ourselves the trophy or we give it

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Speaker 1: out to someone else, the award goes to how good

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Speaker 1: of a defense we have put together? Two force the

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Speaker 1: other side to really think hard about why or how

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Speaker 1: they would approach this. And when you're dealing with the Senate,

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Speaker 1: that's fifty and your issues are now elevated enough in

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Speaker 1: some states where you can sway an election in the

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Speaker 1: US Senate. I could have never expected our issues to

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Speaker 1: become that powerful on a national scale. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: weird alignment of the political planets, but it's the reality.

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Speaker 1: You look at the Colorado Senate election last year and

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Speaker 1: it was almost how can we prove which senator is

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Speaker 1: the greatest public land advocate? And in those instances, it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: even if the lesser, you know, the one who isn't

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Speaker 1: quite as good at public lands were to get elected,

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Speaker 1: that's a whole lot better than ten fifteen years ago

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Speaker 1: when it was let's bury the needle and see how

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Speaker 1: bad we can be on public lands. We've spun that

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Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty degrees. So that's uh, that's been

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Speaker 1: really really interesting to see. Probably the offensive m VP

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Speaker 1: award goes to the fact that we finally got Land

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Speaker 1: and Water Conservation Fund permanently protected and fully funded, and

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Speaker 1: that piece of legislation is the same age I am, Mark.

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Speaker 1: I think about that. It's like who the yep, yeah

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Speaker 1: exactly and not fine, Randy, sorry about that. That's fine.

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Speaker 1: And so I first went my first trip to Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Was in there was a bill called partners

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Speaker 1: in Wildlife that the next year got converted to a

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Speaker 1: bill called Conservation and Reinvestment Act. Don Young, a kind

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Speaker 1: of a bit of a no net gain public land

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Speaker 1: dude from Alaska, is the sponsor of the bill, and

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Speaker 1: that bill would have done the same thing, would have

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Speaker 1: permanently and permanently reauthorized and fully funded LWCF. It got killed,

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Speaker 1: and I've been at EC quite a few times since

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Speaker 1: then asking for renewal. And I'm just telling this through

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Speaker 1: my eyes. I don't mean it in a way that

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Speaker 1: I'm the only one doing it. There's hundreds of people

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Speaker 1: carrying the load here. Uh, And just out of some

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Speaker 1: crazy political alignment in the summer of we have a

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Speaker 1: Montana Republican Senator Senator Steve Gaines, and we have a

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Speaker 1: Colorado Republican senator who was Senator Corey Gardner. They were

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Speaker 1: both up for re election in November just whatever, four

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Speaker 1: months ago, and the President and these two senators get

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Speaker 1: together and they throw the ball out there that we

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Speaker 1: are going to permanently reauthorize and fully fund l w

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Speaker 1: CF with this bill called the Great American Outdoors Act.

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Speaker 1: When that came across my news feed, Mark, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: where's the catch. We've been fighting this for I don't

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Speaker 1: know what do the map twenty two years? Something's up that.

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Speaker 1: That's what went through my head, and uh it got

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Speaker 1: passed and ties right back to what you're saying about

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Speaker 1: our defensive MBP situation, right. It was the fact that

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Speaker 1: we had put so much pressure that folks fighting for

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Speaker 1: re elections saw this is as their gold and goose

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Speaker 1: to get in votes. Right, Yeah, exactly. And so that's uh.

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Speaker 1: If you would have told me that we would uh

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Speaker 1: in in that we would have seen the Great American

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Speaker 1: Outdoor Act come forward and get passed by a big

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Speaker 1: man majority in both houses and get signed by the President,

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Speaker 1: I would have said, in what world are you living?

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Speaker 1: Because I just didn't see it coming, but it did,

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Speaker 1: and it's I don't know if people understand what a

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Speaker 1: remarkable accomplishment that is and how beneficial that will be

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Speaker 1: going forward. If I look in the rear view mirror

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Speaker 1: of all of the great work that has been done

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Speaker 1: because of that program and the funding it provides, we

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Speaker 1: could be on a podcast for a week and I

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Speaker 1: don't think I could explain every piece of access that

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Speaker 1: is out there that's been it's either new access, improved access,

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Speaker 1: expanded access that was brought forth because that pool of

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Speaker 1: money is there. You know, I just I'm still laughing

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Speaker 1: at myself doing how did that get pulled off? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, an interesting illustration of just how powerful we

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Speaker 1: the people can be in this is. And I might

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Speaker 1: get the exact number wrong here, maybe you remember this, Randy,

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Speaker 1: But if I remember correctly, back in January or February,

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Speaker 1: the administration came out with its kind of budget proposes

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Speaker 1: for the year, and they were recommending something like five

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Speaker 1: percent funding for the Land and Water Conservation Fund. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was basically nine less than it's supposed to be,

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Speaker 1: is what they're proposing. And then months later, you know,

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Speaker 1: after what you just described, after the two senators said hey,

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Speaker 1: we need this as a win for us, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, now the administration comes out in support of

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Speaker 1: one funding. Uh. And it wasn't like there was this

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Speaker 1: huge change of heart all of a sudden there wanted

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Speaker 1: to support public land. It was it was we need votes.

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Speaker 1: And that's because of us. That's because of hunters and

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Speaker 1: anglers and folks that care about these places making a

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Speaker 1: concerted ruckus. I mean, and that right there proves the

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Speaker 1: power that we can have. Yeah. And some people will say, well,

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Speaker 1: it only happened because uh, people were seeking their political salvation.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I'll take it that. That's kind of the Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: you know, the unfortunate way it works in today's world

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Speaker 1: is very often do both sides get together and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: this would be great for America. There's so much political

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Speaker 1: calculus they go into it, so much paying of political

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Speaker 1: favors that you try to now play the game to

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Speaker 1: position it. So, how do we make sure that when

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Speaker 1: political favors are being repaid, or when political calculus is

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Speaker 1: being put on the white board, that our issues are

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Speaker 1: part of the consideration and take the win when you

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Speaker 1: get it. So, I mean you were young during the

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Speaker 1: time period and ask you abous. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: much insight you have or not. But back in the

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Speaker 1: you know, late Sick Seas in early seventies, a lot

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Speaker 1: of these environmental and public land related issues were at

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Speaker 1: least if you believe the history books, they were They

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Speaker 1: were by Parson, they were supported by most everyone. It

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Speaker 1: was a fight to show who was the best for

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Speaker 1: these things. It was you know, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: really important piece of legislation were passed it or signed

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Speaker 1: underneath Republican presidence, um, Congress, etcetera. Um. Was it really

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Speaker 1: hunky dory back then? And it will never be able

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Speaker 1: to get back to it? Or are we actually getting

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Speaker 1: back to what was present last year? Which or not

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Speaker 1: last year? But back in the sixties and seventies, which

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Speaker 1: was it was just a political necessity, like is the

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Speaker 1: will we ever get back to something like that? Or

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Speaker 1: are we getting there? I think it comes and goes. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I remember being five years old when the Cuyahoga

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Speaker 1: River in Cleveland, Ohio started on fire, and you watched

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Speaker 1: that on Back then you had three news network and

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Speaker 1: were tuned in for the six o'clock news, and here

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Speaker 1: are tugboats floating on the river trying to put the

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Speaker 1: fire out on the river. That was such a powerful

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Speaker 1: image and such a powerful event that even at five

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Speaker 1: years old, you didn't really understand it, but you sure

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Speaker 1: heard a lot of people talking about it. There were

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Speaker 1: jokes about, you know, this river started on fire, or

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Speaker 1: the joke of you know, only Americans can figure out

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Speaker 1: how to burn water. And so from that you see

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Speaker 1: these things like the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, public land management acts. It was really the

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Speaker 1: tenor of the times in the late sixties through the seventies. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and then it started changing some again in the in

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Speaker 1: the eighties. And I think you see a generational you know,

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Speaker 1: every twenty years or so, you see these ebbs and

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Speaker 1: flows in it. And I think we're in one of

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Speaker 1: those times where we're going to start seeing some of that,

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Speaker 1: hopefully go back. I mean, how many times do we

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Speaker 1: have to see algae blooms kill off hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 1: of fish. How many times do we have to have

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Speaker 1: waterfowl or migratory birds land in a place and they

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Speaker 1: all die from some chemical exposure. So we're seeing some

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Speaker 1: of these same symptoms that come and go. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping. I mean, look at all the work we

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Speaker 1: now have found out about, at least in the west

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Speaker 1: migration corridors, and that migration corridor work is some of

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Speaker 1: the most compelling, some of the most interesting, and some

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Speaker 1: of the most valuable work that has been done in

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Speaker 1: the wildlife sciences in my lifetime. And so here we are,

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Speaker 1: we're back to that, and people are paying attention to it,

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Speaker 1: and we're making landscape changes, we're adjusting human behavior patterns

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Speaker 1: and human uses on the landscapes to address that. But

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Speaker 1: there's always going to be the other side of the coin,

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Speaker 1: where if you read the most recent study on sage grouse,

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Speaker 1: we've lost eight of our stage grouse since so there's

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Speaker 1: always the one, you know, the old canary in the

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Speaker 1: coal mine. Uh. And so there's always more to do,

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Speaker 1: and the urgency of doing it gets to be greater

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Speaker 1: and greater and greater. And just about all of it

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Speaker 1: comes back to the use of the land, the habitat

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Speaker 1: the land itself. Uh. You know, all the loophold was

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Speaker 1: written about that in the thirties and forties, and here

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Speaker 1: we are today it still applies and so we've got

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Speaker 1: a ton of work to do, but I think we

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Speaker 1: are building more and more of a resolve to do

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Speaker 1: the hard work, and I'm seeing it in all this

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Speaker 1: stuff related to migration corridors. I think we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to get there with sage grouse. And sometimes the big

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Speaker 1: club that gets used is the threat to you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna put them on the endangered species list. Well,

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Speaker 1: that that's the last thing you want you if you're

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Speaker 1: in that situation, you now are in such a bad spot.

430
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: You've you've let yourself get in in hot water. So

431
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: how do we change landscape issues to improve the future.

432
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: For in this example, I'm using sage grouse, how do

433
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: we get them back up to where they should be

434
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: so that someone doesn't have to come and bring the

435
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: big club. And I do think that a lot of groups,

436
00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: whether they're industry, extraction, resource businesses, the general pub black

437
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: the even down to the local level, they have examples

438
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: to look at, to say a boy, when someone comes

439
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: in and says this is now an endangered species, we

440
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: really are out of options and we're gonna get told

441
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: what to do. And hopefully people have learned those lessons

442
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: along the way, and this awareness uh will continue to

443
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: grow and and we'll have a better place for our

444
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: public lands and our waterways and stuff like that. I

445
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: know it doesn't happen quickly, it doesn't happen easily, but

446
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: I do think America, if we're unique in some ways,

447
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: it's that we do have a lot of value on

448
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: our wild things and wild places, and we just got

449
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: to give that voice and and some political uh priority.

450
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: And I think I've seen it in the last few years.

451
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: I'm keeping my fingers. Hey, we're the pendulum is coming back,

452
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: and let's keep it there as long as we can. Yeah,

453
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: you mentioned how you know so much of what's most

454
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: important is you know what's actually happening on the ground,

455
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: how these places are being used. And you know, over

456
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: the past few years, we've had these big wins like

457
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: the Great American Outdoors Act and the Dingled Junior Act,

458
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: which was the year before which UM did a lot

459
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: of good things on these same lines. But at the

460
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: same time, there has been what you know, you and

461
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: I have talked about in the past, this kind of

462
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: death by a thousand cuts, little things happening behind the

463
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: scenes a little bit, and if you weren't really paying attention,

464
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: you wouldn't realize that stuff like the stage sage grouse plan,

465
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: like there was all this work done over a number

466
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: of years to develop these compromises around trying to keep

467
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: the sage grouse off the endangered species list by having

468
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: some really um I don't know if innovative is is

469
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: the right word, but like some strong ideas about how

470
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: everybody can proactively um move forward with conservation efforts, whether

471
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: it be ranching or energy or uh development. There are

472
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: all these things put in place to make sure there's

473
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: a conservation plan to keep stage grouse from going further

474
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: into decline. These were agreed on back in I can't

475
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 1: remember the year twenties sixteen or something like that. And

476
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: then over the last few years the previous administration cut

477
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: back on a lot of that stuff, and and so

478
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: we went we went down, or we went kind of

479
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: backwards on that. We've gone backwards on things like the

480
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: Arctic National Wildlife Refuge being opened up for leasing on

481
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: the coastal plaine m We went backwards on protection for

482
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: the boundary waters as they started moving forward, or allowing

483
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: permitting on a mine right on the edge of the

484
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: boundary waters. There's a bunch of things like that that

485
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: have kind of moved in the wrong direction. So we're

486
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: seeing like some top level things that looked really good

487
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: as far as headlines, and then there were these other

488
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: things that were much more related to land use, um, etcetera, etcetera,

489
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: that or less. So do you feel like, I guess

490
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: how do you feel about that side of things, because

491
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: we have some some legislative winds, but we've had a

492
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: lot of things when it comes to the quality of

493
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: the environment or how some of these places are being

494
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: utilized that have been more discouraging. Um. Where do you

495
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: feel like things are going on that front? Uh? I

496
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: think in this is the nature of our political system

497
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: is there are things that can be done by executive

498
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: or administrative governments, and then there's stuff that requires actual

499
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: act of Congress. As much as we joke, you know

500
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: how taking Act of Congress. Uh, some of that legislature

501
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: or some of that administrative executive stuff, those are danger areas.

502
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: That's where we can quickly use ground can lose ground

503
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: because there's there's not necessarily the political pressure that can

504
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: be brought to bear. There's a lot more. I don't

505
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: mean this in a bad way. I could have so

506
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: many great friends who work for land management agencies, but

507
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: it's easier for someone to exercise their will in that

508
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: scenario versus something that requires an Act of Congress to

509
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: change it. Uh So we have definitely taken some steps

510
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: back as it relates to that. And it's it's also

511
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: a function of our system. Um I do feel that two.

512
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 1: And this is just an observation of my life and

513
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: how we as our citizens interact in this stuff and

514
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: how we look at topics and issues. You know, I'm

515
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: gonna say, in the last ten years, we have lost

516
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: most of our local media and you know, whether it's

517
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: your local newspaper, your local TV station, and we can

518
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: more of our media online. Well, the online media sources

519
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: we get are more national and not local, not regional,

520
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: so our issues get framed in these big national our

521
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: versus D left versus right binary discussion and so people

522
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: start either ignoring their local issues or they see their

523
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: local issues for or through the lens of what team

524
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: am I on. And that's really damaging to a lot

525
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: of those things you're talking about. Where before we we

526
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: started having that, if someone were to come and say,

527
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna significantly manipulate this huge piece of

528
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: wildlife habitat or this water shed, and it was done

529
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: by an agency or an executive order, I'm pretty sure

530
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: that people wouldn't have cared what quote unquote team they

531
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: were on. They would have showed up, piste off and

532
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: they would have stop that. Now it's almost like, well,

533
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm on this team, so I can't say anything. And

534
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: a big borrow. What I spend my time trying to

535
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: convince people is if you are on that team, that's

536
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: even more burden upon you to be the one who

537
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: speaks up. Uh. And I don't like to make these

538
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: political discussions and and such, but they really are mark

539
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: you and I see how this plays out that these

540
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: groups who want to manipulate either landscapes or species or whatever,

541
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: they've realized that the best way to do that is

542
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: through our political processes. Because if you do it over

543
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: here in our fish and wildlife commissions are you know,

544
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: state environmental quality boards. Those people have trained scientists, they

545
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: have they know their stuff, and they're more accountable to

546
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: the citizens. So what do you do. You take the

547
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: issue and you bring it to a state legislature, or

548
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: you bring it to Congress, and there you've got a

549
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: citizen legislature. Right, they're mostly attorneys or they're whatever else.

550
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: They don't they're not subject experts on any of this stuff,

551
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: so they can easily be swayed to go that direction.

552
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: And all of the work we've done building our mechanisms

553
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: are institutions to protect and promote and advocate for things

554
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: of wild places and wild things. We've got it all

555
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: set up for commissions and you know, all the fish,

556
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: wildlife parks or whoever it is, the Clean Water Commission,

557
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they do at one eight

558
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: on us. And we got to fight these things in

559
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: legislatures and in Congress, and we're just really bad at it.

560
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: And so right now, uh, we got a lot of

561
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: uh we need some uh what do the NFL call

562
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: it O T A s uh organized team activities and

563
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: the off season we got a lot of O T

564
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: A time here that we gotta get up to spat

565
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 1: because right now we're not fielding a very good team

566
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: when it comes to combating that stuff. Uh. And you

567
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: see it and how some of these steps, how we

568
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: lost a lot of ground over the last few years. Yeah,

569
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, like you mentioned this much too, you know,

570
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: our dismay. A lot of this stuff has become political

571
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: and like you said, one team, I mean right, historically,

572
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: at least over the last handful of decades, when the

573
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: pendulum swings Republican, we're really good on guns, We're good

574
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: on hunting rights and that kind of stuff, but we

575
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: are less good on things like the environment and public

576
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: lands when it was the other way. If it swings Democrat,

577
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: bad on guns and hunting rights, stuff like that, but

578
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: good on public lands and the environment. Um, so we

579
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: can have a whole another conversation about gun rights and

580
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,959
Speaker 1: hunting rights. But but sticking on the topic of public

581
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: lands and environment for now. Right now, right we have

582
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: a Democratic president, Congress, etcetera. Um, that's where the pendulum

583
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: is right now. So at least on the public landing

584
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: environment side, do you do we have an opportunity there

585
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: for those specific issues? And if so, you know, what's

586
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: are you optimistic about that over the next few years?

587
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: What's the opportunity? Um? What what should we do to

588
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: take advantage of of this this good part of things

589
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: maybe if if if I'm right on that, Yeah, Um,

590
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: that's one that's shaking out right now as the new

591
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: administration is putting together their leadership and who's going to

592
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: fill a lot of the under secretary positions and in

593
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: the actual people who oversee the departments and the agencies.

594
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,959
Speaker 1: Uh some of that stuff. As I'm watching who's coming

595
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: through the door, it's like, man, can we ever hit

596
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: the middle? You know? Before four years ago and we

597
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: go on through this process, it was like the first

598
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: credential you needed is you had to be a lobbyist

599
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: for one of the resource industries. And I say that

600
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 1: with full disclosure that I come from a logging background.

601
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: I mean my family we were resources people. But that

602
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that's the only voice that gets you or

603
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: the only credential that gets you a position to represent

604
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: our land management agencies and all the things that go

605
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: with that. And now I'm looking at some of the

606
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: nominations are not nominations, but some of the appointments at

607
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: the lower these mid levels, like below the secretary, and

608
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, some of these people don't have a

609
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: very favorable opinion about hunting or what role hunting plays

610
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 1: in some of this stuff, and so I don't I'm

611
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: always let's give everybody the benefit of the doubt. And

612
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: judge based on the actions. So I'm I'm a little

613
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: bit of a wait and see on this at this point.

614
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful like that I've always been hopeful. I'm I'm

615
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: the optimist I thought four years ago. Okay, let me

616
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: see what are the good values some of these people

617
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: will bring to the table, And hopefully they'll this or

618
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: they'll that, you know, And then if they don't, I'm

619
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: gonna have to you know, me and and all of

620
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: us and involved in this and concerned about it, we're

621
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: gonna have to push back. And the same will be

622
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: the case here. There will be some of the places

623
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: where they swing the pendulum. Uh. It's like, no matter

624
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: the issue, when we have a change of administration like

625
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: this from one party to another, the pendulum on every

626
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: issue is going a hunter navy degrees the other direction.

627
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: So our job is to make sure that pendulum doesn't

628
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: go all the way out, you know, where it just

629
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: has such a wide stroke that no one's going to

630
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: be happy because then the next time it comes back

631
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: the other way even further. And I think if they're

632
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: one thing, hunters, anglers, those of us connected to the

633
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: land and landscapes the way we are we've been more

634
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: of that moderate level of Hey, we don't need to

635
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: go way over here, we don't need to go way

636
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: over there. Let's focus on the land, the water, the

637
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: clean air, the habitats, and let's find a way to

638
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: do it. You know, people, if you say we want

639
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: some restrictions or some better mitigation or whatever, instantly people

640
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 1: want to say, oh, well don't you drive a car. Well, yeah,

641
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: I drive a car. I eat my house with natural gas.

642
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I would pay more to reflect

643
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: the true costs of what my gas tank and my

644
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: natural gas and my air conditioner, my electricity. I am

645
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: saying I'm willing to pay more because I see the

646
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: impact out on the landscape, and I think my generation

647
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: has a responsibility to pay for rather than abuse it

648
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: and hand a desolate landscape off to the next generation.

649
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: That's what we're saying when we asked for restraints and

650
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: guidelines and and actual science and consideration for the bigger picture.

651
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: And that's a harder place to advocate for because the

652
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: fringe on either side can just say, oh, you're against

653
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 1: this or you're against that. You're no, I'm I'm I'm

654
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: here for the same middle I'd like to thank Uh yeah,

655
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: a party that rarely gets hurt unfortunately. Right yeah, And

656
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 1: so what's that look like going forward? You know, if

657
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: we have this conversation in four years, it'll be interesting

658
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: to look back in the rear view mirror and say,

659
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: I didn't see that coming. Are yeah, I knew that

660
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: was coming. Are all right? Yeah, we got that problem fixed,

661
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: or we put this in place. And uh, the thing

662
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: I realized in my years to do in this is

663
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: that the and this goes back to this nationalizing of

664
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: our issues, right you. You framed it very well marked

665
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: where the Democrats are known to be uh friendlier to

666
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: the landscape and the water and the air, and the

667
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: Republicans are want to be known as you know what,

668
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: we protect your guns. You're blah blah blah whatever. I

669
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: work with a lot of people who almost cross that divide,

670
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: you know. Give an example, Congressman Mike Simpson from Idaho

671
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: submits a bill after twenty some years of work to say,

672
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: let's breach the dams on the Lower Snake River because

673
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: it's ruining salmon and steelhead habitat. It is We're gonna

674
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: lose these species and these runs if we don't do

675
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: something more. And we've skirted around the edges for so long.

676
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm willing to introduce a bill that's going

677
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: to cost US already billion dollars over the next I

678
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: don't know, decade or two. So if we were to

679
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: say all Republicans are, you know, painted this way, where

680
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: does that leave what? Then then there's no place for

681
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: a Mike Simpson in the world. In the flip side.

682
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: Senator Martin Heinrich, Senator John Tester, You're not going to

683
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: pass any gun control through the Senate with those two

684
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: in a sate with those two guys there, because they're

685
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: very good on guns. So if we say every Democrat

686
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: is whatever on guns, where does that leave Tester and Heinrich?

687
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: So I I used to it's so much easier to

688
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: view it through the binary good or bad, you know,

689
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: left right R D. But every piece of progress we've

690
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: ever made, whether it's moving the ball forward or keeping

691
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: the dozers from pushing us back, it's been because we

692
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: had people on both sides who who were willing to

693
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: to listen. Yeah. The rub then is how do we

694
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: create more people like that and get them to get

695
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: them in office? That's what I'm always that. I would

696
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: say that occupied more of my time right now, Mark

697
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: than any of this policy stuff, because right now we

698
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: have state legislatures in session. In Michigan, are you guys

699
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: a year round legislature. I'm honestly not sure about that, right, Okay, Well,

700
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: in Montana we're biennial, so every two years they meet

701
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: for ninety days, and we wish that they met for

702
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: two days every ninety years because it's it's always chaos.

703
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: And I look at the legislatures are in session in

704
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Idaho and my only Colorado, and you know, pretty much

705
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: every state I look around, legislatures are in session and

706
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: we have this tenor this this extremism on both sides

707
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: that is not reflective of what got us here. And

708
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's our issues, whatever issues it is.

709
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: And so you're back to your question of how do

710
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: we get more of those people to the table, or

711
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: how do we get more of those people elected. That's

712
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: the riddle we have to solve, because we can fight

713
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 1: this game to the ends of the time, but really

714
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: we've got to get to the core of it, and

715
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: the core of it is how do we get the

716
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: elected people to understand our case and represent our cause,

717
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: or how do we I mean, if they don't already

718
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: understand it, how do we get them to understand it?

719
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: Or how do we get people elected who bring that

720
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: perspective with them when they go there? So easier said

721
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: than done, considering how much it costs to to play

722
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: in the election space I mean, today's world, from from

723
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: my uneducated perspective at se, seems like what you get

724
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: is when you get down to like the primary level

725
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: or the state legislature level, the the majority of the

726
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: voters that are active when it's at that level tend

727
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: to be those that are really really engaged, and that

728
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: might mean that they are a little bit farther left

729
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: or farther right. So the people that are making the

730
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: decisions about who gets into gets to that level of

731
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: the conversation, the people that are voting at that level,

732
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: they're pushing it farther and farther to the outside. And

733
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: by the time you can if you can get through

734
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: that filter, the only people that made it past that

735
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: point up to the national level have already been screened

736
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: by the extremists on either side, and so you only

737
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: get people that are catering to the far of far

738
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: side of each base. You never get the moderate. A

739
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: moderate can really rarely or less common than otherwise. You

740
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: can't get with a moderate set of positions up to

741
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 1: the level we're talking about. Um. Not that they're on exceptions,

742
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: there are, as you described, but it just seems harder

743
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: and harder to do that. So is the solution that

744
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: we have to start getting really active at that local

745
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: or state or or active in the primary level of

746
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: things to start getting something going there. Yep, it does.

747
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: And that's that's what hunters don't want to hear. They

748
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: don't want to They don't like politics. First of all,

749
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: their common sense people who say, why should we even

750
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: have to fight and argue about this stuff? It's common sin.

751
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: But that's the reality we're faced with. And then if

752
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: you look at a map, I beture if you took

753
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: a map of Montana, I have I've looked at the

754
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: Montana on and if you looked at a similar map

755
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: in Michigan, you would say, how did they come up

756
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 1: with this geographic boundary for House district whatever or Senate

757
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: district whatever. Well, through jerrymandering, they all get together and say, well,

758
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: we need the next number of districts that are just

759
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: super safe Democratic districts and super safe Republican district Well,

760
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: as quick as you do that, you don't need any

761
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: bait in that district. You know who's going to carry

762
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: the day. It's going to be the R or the

763
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: D just because of how they got together and and

764
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: arranged the district. So again you get the craziest fringe

765
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: people possible. And that's why if if there is any

766
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: place of moderation in our politics, it probably is the

767
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: US Senate. As much as someone believe that because US

768
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: sentence races aren't gerrymandered, you have to appeal to the

769
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 1: entire population of your of your state. And so uh yeah,

770
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: they now cost fifty uh fifty two hundred million per side.

771
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: But your point of are we going to have to

772
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: start getting more engaged, Yes, absolutely, it's it's going to

773
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: become part of the the it should almost be part

774
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: of training in in hunter education, and I mean on

775
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 1: our platforms. This spring we started a series called Civics

776
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: for Hunters. Because I've been spending so much time on

777
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: this stuff. I've been to Hell on a multiple times,

778
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: phone calls, meetings, It's I'm in my head I'm like,

779
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: I don't have this much time, and I feel like

780
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: it's David and Goliath for all of us who are

781
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: trying to fight this. And I'm thinking, all right, how

782
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 1: do we educate our audience? Is about one, what's at stake?

783
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: How we got to where we are today, and how

784
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: we can get out of this and get every answer

785
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: involved some of what you referred to, and that's hunters

786
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: are going to have to become more political, politically active,

787
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: al right, So would that be the case? The term

788
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: is always like knowing where to focus because I try

789
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: to stay pretty darn up on all this stuff, and

790
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: even I can't and and it's my job. Um, the

791
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: average person out there has got a million other things

792
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 1: going on and they can only devote so much time

793
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: to reading about these things, getting educated, spending time calling people, etcetera, etcetera.

794
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: So so if we're just looking at the next three

795
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: and a half years, let's just focus on like what's

796
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: happening now, who's who's in office right now? And continue

797
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: with the kind of football analogy. Um, I'm curious about

798
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: what is your top priority from an offensive perspective for us? So,

799
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: what's one opportunity that we can focus on going out

800
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: and getting and then what is one defensive priority? What's

801
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: one thing we really need to be careful to make

802
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: sure we don't get attacked on or get a big

803
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: loss on. Is there two things that may pop to

804
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: mind that we can think about. Yeah, I think offensively,

805
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: if we could get back to more uh CRP Conservation

806
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: Reserve Program National or NAH Wetlands Conservation Act funding for

807
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: wetland these months. Uh, those do unbelievable things for our

808
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: egg producers. Uh. You know, when you get in a

809
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: trade war with China, you don't lose your CRP payment,

810
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, your shoybean or your corner your grain payments

811
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: might go down. And you look at the amount of

812
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: money we've spent in the last however many years propping

813
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: back up prices because of trade wards related to agriculture,

814
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: and now producers because of those super thin margins, have

815
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: to farm every single inch. There's no fence rows, there's

816
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: no hedgerows, there's there's nothing left at there. You can

817
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: see that in White Ceil country for sure. Yeah. And

818
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: so how do we convince are elected officials that this

819
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: is good for small town, this is good for the

820
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,959
Speaker 1: farmer and the egg producer. It's good for the land,

821
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: it's good for the water, it's good for wildlife, it's

822
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: good for all of us. Somehow along the way, these

823
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: type of conservation programs got thrown under the bus in

824
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 1: the politics, got run through the political machine. So if

825
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: I was if I was allowed to diagram what our

826
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: game plan would be, I would say, let's get let's

827
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: go on offense with more conservation funding that helps the

828
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: people on the ground. Let's pay them to do the

829
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: right thing and and right by everybody, right by the land,

830
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: right right for themselves. And let's quit having to spend

831
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: so much money on tariff or to uh price supports

832
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: because of tariffs and all the I mean, that's such

833
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: a complicated discussion, but suffice to say, and it's simplified manner.

834
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: It costs US billions and billions of billions of dollars

835
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: when we get in trade wards that involve egg products.

836
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: Are there other ways we could be reallocating some of

837
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 1: that money, taking some of the land out of production,

838
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: which would bring prices back up in just about every model.

839
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: We'd have to pay less in price supports that could

840
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: go to CRP And you know, whatever the program is

841
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: there's wet lens. There's there's the old what is it,

842
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: the whip program. I think it was called w R

843
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: E P. There's yea, there's all kinds of those programs,

844
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: and we have lost so many of those over the years.

845
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: And uh, you know CRP. Everyone says, oh, that's really

846
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: good for birds. Guess what, it's some of the best

847
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 1: deer program the best deer habitat in the northern plains,

848
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: the foothills of the Rockies, A lot of that was

849
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: CRP ground. That's when we had our best deer hunting,

850
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: best bird hunting, songbirds, you name it, our water quality,

851
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: the whole work. So from an offensive standpoint, that's where

852
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: I would like to see us go. And that's a

853
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: that's a farm bill conversation for for folks that aren't familiar.

854
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: That's those programs are all part of the farm bill,

855
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: which which I think the next farm bill UH comes

856
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: up in Uh is that right? Ready? Do you know?

857
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty sure yeah, I should know that. Uh.

858
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: I think you're right on that mark. I would have

859
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: to look it up and see. UM. So to me,

860
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: that's that is where we should be on the offense. Uh.

861
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: On the defense. I think we're gonna have to think

862
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: about and I'm trying to think of how to say

863
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: this without it coming across weird. But uh, we have

864
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: so many instances where people are going to try to

865
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: chisel around the hedges, whether it's let me divert some

866
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: of the land and water conservation funds, let me change

867
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: how funding of Pittman Robertson happens, or how the money

868
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: can be used. Let me divert some of this, let

869
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: me do some of that, let's get let's change the

870
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: tax code so that conservation easements are no longer allowed.

871
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: Right now, in the Montana legislature, we are battling all

872
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: kinds of conservation easement restrictions that and you look at that,

873
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: and you say, where does this come from? Well, where

874
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: it comes from is there are groups on the national level,

875
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: very very conservative groups who do not like what they

876
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: call the law of perpetuities. Uh, in a conservation easement

877
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: is I'm going to restrict the use of my property

878
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: and perpetuity. Some people say that's just a complete violation

879
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: of everything they believe to be the case for property rights,

880
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: because whoever inherits or buys that property or takes it

881
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: over takes its subject to that perpetual restriction. And so

882
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: I I use that as one example where the tax

883
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: code is used to chisel around the edges. UH, budget

884
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: processes are used to chisel around the edges. Those are

885
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 1: things that it goes back to that death by a

886
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: thousand cuts mark where people are like, well, how do

887
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: I know about all this? How how am I supposed

888
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:12,280
Speaker 1: to stay informed? Well, that's part of what the value

889
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: you get when you become a member of the many

890
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: many national or state groups. And I know people don't

891
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: want to check that box that says keep me informed.

892
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: Please check that box when you sign up with your

893
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: membership to say please keep me informed, because that's part

894
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: of what they're doing. They're making you aware of these

895
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: kind of things. Yesterday I got an email from the

896
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain ol Foundation that said, Hey, alert, there's a

897
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: bill in the Montana legislature that says nonprofit organizations cannot

898
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: buy farm ground of more than eighty acres. I just

899
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: reading about this today. Yeah, Well, that means every public

900
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: land access program we had and that we've built in

901
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: Montana that got us UH new Force service access, new

902
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: BLM accesses, UH whether and here's how it normally happens.

903
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: Army F goes and buys three hundred acres that has

904
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: access to thirty thousand acres, and Army F takes that

905
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: three hundred acres and gives it to a state agency

906
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: or gives it to the federal you know, the BLM

907
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: or Force Service. So they only hold it momentarily, but

908
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: they're the actual transaction party who puts it all together,

909
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: brings all the funding sources, and as quick as they

910
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 1: get it done, they immediately turn it over to an agency.

911
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: Same with the Nature Conservancy, same with the Trust for

912
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: Public Lands. And we're talking about hundreds of thousands of

913
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: acres of access that we have lost or that we

914
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: will lose if bills like that happen. And it's great

915
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: that these groups, whether it's Army F, b J, TROUT, Unlimited,

916
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: t r c P, it's great that they're notifying of

917
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: a note buying us of this stuff because we got

918
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 1: to act, we've got to speak out. And that always

919
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: brings the next question of all, no one's gonna listen

920
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah they will if you and enough of

921
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: your friends email or call your senator or your legislator,

922
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: your state legislator, your your congress person. It doesn't take

923
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: too many to get their attention. And I would tell

924
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: everyone in your phone you should have the capital switchboard

925
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: number at the US capital two oh two to two

926
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: four three one two one, and you should have the

927
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: same capital switchboard number in your phone for your state legislature.

928
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: And don't give them a break. And I know people say, oh,

929
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: they're not gonna listen to me, They listen to you.

930
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: Trust me on this. It's just that if we have

931
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: this defeatist attitude that no one's paying attention, no one

932
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: cares about what I have to say, So I'm not

933
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: going to call, I'm not going to email. Well, they're

934
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: not mind readers. Why do you think Jason Travitz withdrew

935
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: his bill to sell all that public land and one

936
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: once at two thousands, seventeen or eight two because people

937
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: picked up the phone and people made it or send emails.

938
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: So don't don't say that they don't listen. They do.

939
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: It's just that we too often have the defeatist attitude

940
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: that they're not going to listen, and we use that

941
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: as our excuse or why we're not going to engage.

942
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: You know, the interesting thing is you know, you mentioned

943
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: how it's how it can be painful for us as

944
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: hunters to have to get involved at the local level

945
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: or at the state level because we don't want to

946
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: get into this nasty civics politics kind of stuff. But

947
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: the one upside is that at that level, each individual

948
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: voice matters more. You know. I mean at that level,

949
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: these people, if they hear from a tho some people,

950
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: that is overwhelming. Let you know, compared to at the

951
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: national level, maybe they hear from hundreds of thousands of

952
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: people at times. You know, we do have greater influence

953
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: at this level. Um, But you brought up these examples

954
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: in Montana, and I don't know if it's just because

955
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm tuned into it more or if it's for real.

956
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: It just feels like there's a lot of stuff coming

957
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: out of Montana right now, stuff like that that bill

958
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: you just mentioned, all the things related to two Predators, um,

959
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: everything around the the Game Commission right now with these

960
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: different hunting you know, uh, whether yet non resident allocations

961
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: of tags and outfitter um preference and there's a lot

962
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: of stuff happening. Um, what's going on in Montana? Well,

963
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Andrew McKean was denied a commission. Um, what's

964
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: going on in your state? Right? Yeah? So Andrew, you know,

965
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: he was appointed to fill one of the positions of

966
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: one of the five positions of our Montana Fish, Wildlife

967
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: and Parks Commission. U great guy. I mean those of

968
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: you who know Andrew from his days he was the

969
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,959
Speaker 1: editor at Outdoor Life, just such an articulate, thought thought out,

970
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: well spoken guy. So, and I'm gonna use Andrew as

971
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: the example that that is the symptom of the disease

972
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: we have here in Montana. And it's not just in Montana.

973
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: I think when I explain it this way, people will

974
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: see it's widespread. Uh. Andrew the getting new governor, get

975
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: a new legislature, and they have to renew Andrew's position.

976
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: The state Senate does, Uh. So it goes to the

977
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: Senate Fishing Game Committee. There's a hearing on his appointment,

978
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: and there wasn't one single piece of testimony either in

979
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: person that we're doing zoom testimony here. Also, Uh, that

980
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: was against Andrew, not one. And I don't know of

981
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: anybody who wrote the commission or wrote the Senate and

982
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: said I don't like Andrew. He lost on a purely

983
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: partisan vote. Seven Republicans voted against him and four voted

984
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: for him, four Democrats. And after the vote, the chairman

985
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: of that committee gets up and says, it's a new

986
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: day in town, and we're going to do what the

987
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: governor wants us to do. In other words, hell with

988
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: all you people, let's send us here, Hell with all

989
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: of you who commented and testified. We're we're here to

990
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: do what we want to do. And some would say, Randy,

991
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: that flies in the face of what you just said

992
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: a little bit ago about they listen to us, Well,

993
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: they listened. They listen to you more if you're active.

994
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. Uh. And so what's the

995
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: what's what's the reality of what we're dealing with in Montana. Well,

996
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with in Montana is we have over

997
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: the course of years where you were talking about how

998
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, you can get very active people and you

999
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: get the far fringe of one side and the far

1000
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: fringe of the other. And that's what we have in

1001
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: Montana right now. We have a supermajority of one party

1002
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: that has a supermajority in the House, supermajority in the Senate,

1003
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: owns the governor's seat and all of the other four

1004
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: statewide offices, and so the crazies are having their go

1005
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: of it right now. But even within the supermajority group,

1006
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: there are some same people. I'm talking to them all

1007
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: the time and they're like, Randy, we're trying our best, man,

1008
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: but your people got a way in. Where are the

1009
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: hunters on this? We need emails, we need phone calls,

1010
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: get them here. And these are people within that party

1011
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: who are saying, we're you know, there's only eight or

1012
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: ten of us. We're on your side, but you better

1013
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: show up or you're going to get wiped out. So

1014
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: right now we're seeing the whip lash effect. And some

1015
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: folks would say, how is it. Montana used to have

1016
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: two Democratic senators and you had sixteen years of democratic governors.

1017
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: What we saw in the election was the trend identified

1018
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 1: earlier of the nationalization of our elections. We had are

1019
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: the any local news coverage that people were consuming. I

1020
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: mean it was there, but people aren't consuming it. People

1021
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 1: are watching the national cable news networks. There. They believe

1022
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: that Facebook is news, so they're getting it from social media,

1023
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: and so we've lost all the nuance of how this

1024
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 1: stuff applies to Montana, and it became an election of

1025
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: anyone with a D next to him was the reincarnation

1026
01:03:55,480 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, when most of our

1027
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: D s here in Montana would be considered pretty right

1028
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: of center folks in Connecticut or New York or California

1029
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: or wherever. But and I'm not saying that, you know,

1030
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: woe was me or this or that. I'm just saying

1031
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: these are lessons we can look at and say, this

1032
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: is what happens when we lose any local or regional

1033
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: media of substance. This is what happens when we get

1034
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: lazy as a voting public and say, someone make up

1035
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: my mind for me. Let the algorithm of Facebook tell

1036
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: me what news I should consume, which most of it

1037
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 1: is not even news, it's paid sponsored bs. And on

1038
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: both sides, that's what we in We kind of got

1039
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,959
Speaker 1: the government we voted for, the government we deserve, because

1040
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 1: if we're going to be that lazy that we're not

1041
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: going to go out and find our own into pennant

1042
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 1: media sources. If we're that type that we'll spend a

1043
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month at the coffee shop. But we

1044
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: won't spend five dollars for a subscription to our local newspapers.

1045
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: That's actually talking about the issues that are going to

1046
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: affect us. If we're so lazy that we're gonna let

1047
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: Facebook or Google or whoever tell us what really is

1048
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: the news or how the news should be spun, well

1049
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna end up with these kind of outcome. So

1050
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: I know some people be like Newberry that is way

1051
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 1: out in the weeds, but it's it's what I saw

1052
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: happened here in Montana, and so yeah, everyone outside of

1053
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: Montana is calling what what what are you guys drinking

1054
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: out there this legislative session, And it's just we it's

1055
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: a perfect storm of where we have gerrymandered our districts,

1056
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: we have disengaged from the primary process, something you brought

1057
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: up earlier as being per important, and now we got

1058
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: the crazies. It's crazies on one side against crazy as

1059
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: on the other. And I'm not saying they're all crazy,

1060
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: but the ones who the ones who get voted to

1061
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: the leadership within these caucuses are pretty fringe, whereas the

1062
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: the rest of them are you know, they're they're trying

1063
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: to do what they think is good. But there's some

1064
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: very politically ambitious people who get into this process for

1065
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 1: the power that they can obtain, and they've realized the

1066
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: farther out on the fringe, I get in an in

1067
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 1: an environment like this, the greater my voice, even though

1068
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: the rank and file person on main street is like,

1069
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: what the heck is that person thinking? Yeah, I voted

1070
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: for him, But man, I don't get it. Well, if

1071
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: you voted for him and you're having that feeling of

1072
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,959
Speaker 1: what is this person doing, please call them and say

1073
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: or email them and say, hey, I voted for you,

1074
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: but I think this is a stupid idea. Uh, just

1075
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: because you vote for someone. This is another thing in

1076
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: the American tradition that is new people are of the

1077
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: opinion that if I voted for this person, I can't

1078
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 1: push back on them. My comment is you're the one

1079
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: who should push back on them. You're the one who

1080
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: can hold them more accountable than anybody else because they

1081
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 1: know that you're the You're part of the reason. You

1082
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: and people like you who think like you are how

1083
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 1: they got elected. So I think it's more important for

1084
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: people within those groups to push back on the folks

1085
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: they voted for you. So, yeah, so so a lot

1086
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 1: of the stuff we talked about, it's it seems like

1087
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 1: a lot of where things are headed is needing to

1088
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 1: get more engaged at a deeper level sooner than maybe

1089
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: historically we have. So I want to talk I want

1090
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: to kind of shift to a few more issues or

1091
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: more specific issues that might be things at least that

1092
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 1: have been on my radar that that maybe we could

1093
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: just learn a little bit more that folks can keep

1094
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: tabs on when it comes to public land stuff. UM.

1095
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: One of them you brought up earlier, which is migration

1096
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 1: corridor UM issues. And there's been a lot of interesting

1097
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 1: studies you mentioned. There's been I think a lot of

1098
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: insights as far as how animals use these wider landscapes

1099
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: than maybe we realize. Like a prong horn or mule

1100
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 1: deer or an elk does not realize that the borders

1101
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: of Yellowstone National Park only go to here, or that

1102
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: the national forests go there, right, they don't operate on

1103
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 1: that kind of scale. UM. Same thing with bears or wolves. UM.

1104
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,440
Speaker 1: But there was there's a piece of legislation, that legislation

1105
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: that passed the House last year UM called the Wildlife

1106
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: Quarters Conservation Act. UM I'm curious if you know anything

1107
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: more about the future of that or or anything else

1108
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: related to migration corridors or the protection of you know,

1109
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: these connective tissues that that allow animals to move from

1110
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: this protected area to that protective area, or anything on

1111
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: your radar related to that, because I think that it's

1112
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 1: seeming like that's becoming more and more important for the

1113
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: long term health of wildlife, as as so much of

1114
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 1: our wild spaces are being developed or cut down or

1115
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: or or whatever, just as human pressure pushes on all sides.

1116
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: You look at your home turf there in the Greater

1117
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: Yellowstone ecosystem, right, I mean Bozeman and Idol Falls and

1118
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: all these different towns, more and more people growing, growing, growing. Um,

1119
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 1: you're just seeing these spaces slowly being chipped away at

1120
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: and finding ways to to allow wildlife to still be

1121
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: able to move where they need to seems increasingly important. Um,

1122
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: what's what's on your radar on that front? Yeah, you

1123
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: bring up a really cool piece of legislation, mark the

1124
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 1: Wildlife Corridors Conservation Act. The benefit of it was it

1125
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: was it had a answer from each side of the aisle,

1126
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: so it was not a real contentious bill but it

1127
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 1: died due to the bigger picture of politics of well,

1128
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 1: we don't want this person to have a win because

1129
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: if they get a win, you know, we got an

1130
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: election coming up in the fall of So I'm hopeful

1131
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 1: that either this bill or parts of it will end

1132
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 1: up in possibly the infrastructure or the transportation bill that

1133
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: the current administration is going to put forward, because a

1134
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: lot of these corridor things are related to highways, bridges,

1135
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 1: stuff like that in development. Uh, there is already talk

1136
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 1: at the federal agency level to move corridor studies and

1137
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 1: funding and planning to higher levels so that get that

1138
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 1: part of it can be done just through administrative ruler,

1139
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: through management of the agencies, but actual funding for more research,

1140
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 1: for more mitigation that's going to come from Congress. And uh,

1141
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: I think that that bill there. Uh even if there,

1142
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, there's always some piece that somebody doesn't like. Okay,

1143
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: if we got to get rid of some little piece

1144
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 1: of that. Okay, let's not let perfection get in the

1145
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: way of progress, and let's get it past because we're

1146
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:36,640
Speaker 1: talking about so many critical things here and the the

1147
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 1: amount of uh, what would I say, elasticity to the

1148
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 1: landscape and to these migration corridors is not very high.

1149
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: And the margin for error that we have today compared

1150
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: to thirty fifty years ago, is nowhere near what it

1151
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 1: was back then. We gotta get this right, and we've

1152
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 1: got to do it quickly. So with a bill like that,

1153
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: I just if anyone's interesting, go google the Wildlife Corridors

1154
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: Conservation Act. Uh, see who the sponsors were, and uh,

1155
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 1: you know, reach out to your legislative, your your caucus,

1156
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 1: or your delegation and tell them that you support that bill.

1157
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: And however it gets, whether it's that bill itself or

1158
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 1: it's something similar to that, you know, in the transportation bill,

1159
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill, let people know. And uh, he'd be surprised.

1160
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 1: How often, you know, eight or ten people email on

1161
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 1: the same thing, and all of a sudden you get

1162
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: his staff or calls and says, hey, what's going on

1163
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: with this? You know, all of a sudden, we started

1164
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 1: hearing that people are concerned about the migration corridor for pronghorn. Oh, well,

1165
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 1: here's what it is. Oh if we didn't know that,

1166
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 1: let's let's make sure that gets put in the highway

1167
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 1: bill or the transportation bill. Uh, how that stuff works.

1168
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: I know it sounds like ninth grade cymmics, and it

1169
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 1: really is. But uh, it's a bill like that or

1170
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: and because often what we see as a bill comes

1171
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 1: forward and any time you introduce something, that's when you

1172
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 1: identify who are the people who don't like parts of it,

1173
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: and you hear why they don't like parts of it. Okay,

1174
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: maybe we didn't get it past this Congress or the

1175
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,600
Speaker 1: next congress or this legislative session. There are parts in

1176
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: it that are not controversial, so let's get those pieces

1177
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: going forward. Because wildlife corridors, once they're gone, all the

1178
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 1: study shows that animals don't relearn their migration. They stop

1179
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 1: once the corridors are gone. Usually the population disappears and

1180
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:51,560
Speaker 1: you can you know, relocate or translocate new members of

1181
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:57,600
Speaker 1: that species, but they don't have the learned behavior to

1182
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 1: conduct the migrations. And so once they're lost. If if

1183
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 1: a migration was an organism, it would be extinct once

1184
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 1: that corridor is gone. And in some of these corridors,

1185
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, a half mile wide. So when

1186
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: we're allocating our conservation funding dollars that half mile wide gap,

1187
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 1: we're ten thousand alk migrate out of Yellowstone. We might

1188
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 1: want to think about that, because if that half mile

1189
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: wide gap disappears, so does that migration, and so does

1190
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 1: probably that heard about and all the other species dependent

1191
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 1: upon them. So if I remember right, Randy, and I

1192
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 1: want you to fill the gaps here. But if I

1193
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: remember right, some of the things included in that bill

1194
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:51,600
Speaker 1: would have been funding for stuff like wildlife overpasses, you know,

1195
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: the bridges that go over highways to the animals crossroads.

1196
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: There would be uh funding for conservation easements I think

1197
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: on private land would make sure that some of these

1198
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 1: important areas didn't get developed and they stay open for wildlife. UM.

1199
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: I think there was something in there about prioritizing, like

1200
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: if we are going to do any land acquisition for

1201
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: growing public land pieces, these connective tissue kind of areas

1202
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:18,560
Speaker 1: will be prioritized. I think there's something like that. What

1203
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 1: else is in that bill or that type of bill

1204
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: that we should be thinking about advocating for telling our

1205
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 1: our representatives like, hey, we support this tactic or this

1206
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: specific thing. Is there anything you can recall? Yeah, I

1207
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:33,720
Speaker 1: didn't think it was enough money. I think it was

1208
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 1: only fifty million dollars and people are gonna be like,

1209
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: what that's a lot of money. But when you think

1210
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 1: about the cost of doing this, Uh, you earlier showed

1211
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: that wildlife when it leaves, it doesn't know when a

1212
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: cross one boundary to another. A lot of these critical

1213
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: migration corridors go through private land or through tribal lands

1214
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: or whatever. If there's a private land steward out there

1215
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: who has done a remarkable job of maintaining their landscape

1216
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: and preserved this migration corridor, seems to me we should

1217
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: We would be well served to go and buy an

1218
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: easement from them to say, this corridor here, we want

1219
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: you get to keep the land, but we want to

1220
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 1: buy any development rights, any any surface impact rights for

1221
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: you to keep that open for wildlife and and we'll

1222
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 1: pay you a full market value and you get to

1223
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: keep the land. That So that was one of the

1224
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,560
Speaker 1: things that was in there, and it got some blowback

1225
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:41,719
Speaker 1: of well, you know, if they don't allow us public access,

1226
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: we shouldn't we shouldn't be spending the money. Yes we should,

1227
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: because that might be a meal there heard or elk

1228
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: or what you know, who knows what it might be

1229
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 1: moves or that are migrating from this winning public lands

1230
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 1: to the summering public land, and the critical pinch points

1231
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 1: in their migration might be on private So, uh, that

1232
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 1: was one of the things that was in there. A

1233
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: lot of it was building a database about wildlife connectivity,

1234
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 1: and some people are concerned about a big national database

1235
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:22,520
Speaker 1: about wildlife connectivity. In other words, how do migration corridors

1236
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 1: connect wildlife species to their winter rangers, their summer rangers.

1237
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 1: What are these transition rangers? Because they're like, well, if

1238
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: they do that study and my private land ends up

1239
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: being one of the critical corridors, you know, is that

1240
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: gonna put me on some target list or you know,

1241
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:41,640
Speaker 1: am I gonna no longer be able to exercise my

1242
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 1: property rights? Stuff? Stuff like that. It's some of those,

1243
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: in my mind are strawman arguments. Uh, but that's it's

1244
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: stuff like that that was in there. Uh. A lot

1245
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 1: of times. There's also just fencing where you can put

1246
01:17:56,000 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: fencing along these places where there's known migrations to keep

1247
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: them from crossing in random spots and you force them

1248
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 1: to use an underpass or an overpass because of the

1249
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 1: fans act like a funnel, and you keep them you

1250
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: reduce collisions significantly, which affects the population in the survival

1251
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 1: of the population, but we also got to look at

1252
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: the bigger picture of what are we doing to allow

1253
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 1: them to naturally go where they've always went. Uh, their

1254
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: studies going on in Arizona about Interstate forty and how

1255
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 1: their pronghorn used to move a lot, and now that

1256
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: they call her them, you see where they're moving north

1257
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 1: and south until they hit I forty and then they

1258
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 1: just move east and west because it's that much of

1259
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: an impairment impediment to their trail. So uh, that bill

1260
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:54,040
Speaker 1: would have had stuff like that, and it was money

1261
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,880
Speaker 1: and directive to say, let's not allow for any more habitat,

1262
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,560
Speaker 1: fragment at or loss. And it would have provided a

1263
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:04,840
Speaker 1: lot of granting to states because a lot of the

1264
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: state highways and and stuff like that, or a lot

1265
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 1: of the state wildlife agencies know where this stuff is.

1266
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 1: So uh like that it's interesting stuff, and it it

1267
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. And and and I've been

1268
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:25,720
Speaker 1: reading a lot about this idea called island bio geography um,

1269
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 1: which which your you might be already aware, but for

1270
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 1: folks listening just it's it's kind of looking at the

1271
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:38,360
Speaker 1: way that wildlife populations thrive and evolve and and um

1272
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 1: move forward in constrained areas like it like an island.

1273
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 1: But when you study wildlife on an island, you see

1274
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 1: something that's very similar to what happens in a region

1275
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 1: that functionally is an island. Like we'll say the Yellowstone ecosystem,

1276
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 1: which is uh a central ecosystem of of all this

1277
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 1: protected lands surround did by you know, development cities, open

1278
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: country that's used in other in other ways, and so

1279
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 1: certain wildlife species essentially can't connect with another island of

1280
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 1: other protected land. Let's let's say it's the island of

1281
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: Yellowstone and then the island of the Northern Rockies um

1282
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:21,040
Speaker 1: up in Glacier National Park, bomb Marshal, that kind of thing. Like,

1283
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of talking about how do you

1284
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 1: connect these places so that there can be transfer across

1285
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 1: from one to the other. Because if if we get

1286
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: these islands like that that keep getting cut away on

1287
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 1: the edge, just death by a thousand cuts, they keep

1288
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: getting smaller and smaller, and the border on the outside,

1289
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 1: while not a physical wall, becomes a stronger and stronger

1290
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 1: border because now instead of you know, thousands of acres

1291
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 1: of open range land or farms that the wildlife would use.

1292
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 1: Maybe now it's becoming little ranchets and housing developments and

1293
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: malls and all that. So this whole thing with migration

1294
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: and connectivity, it just seems like, you know, twenty years

1295
01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 1: from now, it's just gonna get more and more important

1296
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: as we see people racing to develop our areas around

1297
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:10,960
Speaker 1: public lands, racing to live in these places. Right, the

1298
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 1: whole COVID migration, when we're talking migration, like everyone who's

1299
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:17,080
Speaker 1: leaving the cities and moving to Montana and Idaho and Wyoming,

1300
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 1: like this is only going to get worse. So I

1301
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 1: think that that's something at least that I personally am

1302
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: like following much more closely now and and and hoping

1303
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 1: there can be some positive movement on because of those pressures. Yeah,

1304
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:32,880
Speaker 1: And you know that a good example of those are

1305
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,600
Speaker 1: the they call him the Sky Island Mountain Rangers of Arizona.

1306
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,720
Speaker 1: You have all sorts of different species of squirrels there

1307
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 1: because they've not been able to connect to the other

1308
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 1: mountain rangers. Uh, that's because they're here to ten thousand

1309
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 1: foot mountain with a few other ancillary peaks, and then

1310
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 1: you've got nothing but desert for fifty before you get

1311
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 1: to the next mountain range, you go down there and

1312
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 1: you see it in a fact in Arizona in a

1313
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:05,719
Speaker 1: big way. But the other thing that that theory applies

1314
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 1: to is the resiliency of the species in changing conditions,

1315
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: whether it's climatic change, whether it's changes to invasive species,

1316
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:23,280
Speaker 1: plant species, or other species on their small island landscapes,

1317
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: even it's it's not truly an island, like you said,

1318
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 1: from the standpoint of Oh, it's surrounded by water, it's

1319
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 1: surrounded by non favorable habitat. And the smaller it is

1320
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 1: and the less access they have to other islands, the

1321
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 1: more vulnerable they are. Two other other pressures and other

1322
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 1: changes that are happening. Yeah, So what happens when uh

1323
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 1: fires get worse? What happens when you know, ecoregions within

1324
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,719
Speaker 1: a habitat start moving higher and higher in elevation because

1325
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: it's warmer. Um, there's all sorts of things that become

1326
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 1: of concerned. Then Yeah, um, kind of along sort of

1327
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:08,360
Speaker 1: the same lines at least when it comes to you know, focusing,

1328
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 1: where do we focus our protective efforts or where do

1329
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 1: we try to grow conservation easements or public land whatever

1330
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 1: might be there's another big, fancy initiative that has been

1331
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 1: talked about more and more recently, especially the last few months,

1332
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,680
Speaker 1: And I'm curious about your take on it. Uh. And

1333
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 1: that's the thirty by thirty initiative. Um, could you give folks? Uh?

1334
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 1: Could you give folks a really quick rundown of of

1335
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 1: what I'm assuming your fingers on the pulse of this,

1336
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 1: what what your thoughts are, like? What it is and

1337
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:45,080
Speaker 1: what your thoughts are and and kind of where should

1338
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 1: we be thinking about things as a hunting and fishing community. Um,

1339
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: what's what's your take? Yeah? And what it is? The

1340
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:55,760
Speaker 1: thirty by thirty comes from thirty percent by the year.

1341
01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 1: Is that what you're referring to? Yeah? And uh, it's

1342
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: an effort that says we would want to conserve thirty

1343
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 1: of the U. S Land mass by And it's like

1344
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 1: okay right now where it depends on how you look

1345
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: at it. Uh, Yeah, I don't know what percentage you

1346
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: Here arguments about how much we've currently conserved. Some people

1347
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 1: say there isn't even enough remaining land to get to

1348
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: I think those are just critics here. Instead of finding

1349
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 1: the way to yes, they want to find the way

1350
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:39,920
Speaker 1: to know uh uh. But it's ambitious and instantly. Because

1351
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 1: it's you know, the current administration, it's a policy they support.

1352
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 1: You're gonna have some people who just hate it by default.

1353
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:54,680
Speaker 1: Well whatever, But we're talking about conserving large landscapes, and

1354
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 1: we're talking about some of the most endangered landscapes in America.

1355
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 1: Aren't the Rocky Mountain West. Yeah, they might have the

1356
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:09,480
Speaker 1: largest host of our real you know, warm and cuddly's megafauna,

1357
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,679
Speaker 1: But some of the most endangered landscapes are in the East,

1358
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 1: the southeast, the Midwest, and the low hanging fruit of

1359
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:23,040
Speaker 1: conservation has already been plucked. And most of that is

1360
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 1: our public lands. We had a ton of work that

1361
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: needs to be done to protect critical conservation on private lands.

1362
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,840
Speaker 1: And if we have to give incentives or do whatever

1363
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:41,840
Speaker 1: to help meet this thirty by thirty. As aggressive as

1364
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 1: that is, I think in today's political environment, we're gonna

1365
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: have to look at how we do some of this

1366
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:51,640
Speaker 1: on private land too, because that's where it's harder to do.

1367
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 1: You have many multiple stakeholders. Private landowners have property rights

1368
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 1: you've got to consider. Uh. I think it's a cool idea. Uh.

1369
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 1: I'd like to see more details of you know exactly,

1370
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:07,560
Speaker 1: how the how does it get funded, how they get implemented,

1371
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 1: How do we figure out what places are the you know,

1372
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 1: the the next uh on the on the list? You know,

1373
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,680
Speaker 1: how how do we prioritize uh? Stuff like that. But

1374
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:26,720
Speaker 1: it's it caught some people off guard because I think

1375
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,200
Speaker 1: there's been a an acceptance that the pie is that

1376
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 1: is going to shrink. So let's figure out how we

1377
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 1: fight over a shrinking pie and how along comes this

1378
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 1: idea that is more of a let's not accept the

1379
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 1: fact that the pie is gonna shrink. Let's try to

1380
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:46,559
Speaker 1: make the pie bigger, the pie of conserved lands. Uh.

1381
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 1: And I don't care what part do you come from.

1382
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 1: I don't care what your political basis is. The United

1383
01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:58,759
Speaker 1: States in its history of the last hundred and fifty

1384
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 1: years has definitely been a country, a culture, society that

1385
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 1: believes in building the bigger pie. Now we can say

1386
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,640
Speaker 1: we've had our like our stock portfolio, right, we've had

1387
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 1: times where it's flipped down and pop back up. I

1388
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: think you'd have a hard time because the corollary to this,

1389
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:22,479
Speaker 1: or the flip side of it is, Okay, let's try

1390
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:25,840
Speaker 1: to get to five percent by forty five. You know, let'

1391
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 1: let's see if we can destroy more of it by

1392
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:31,760
Speaker 1: or forty five. And so when you say it in

1393
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 1: that context, it's like, well, that'd be stupid, right, it

1394
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 1: would be. So if that's stupid, why isn't it smart

1395
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 1: to try conserve more and you know, thirty by thirty

1396
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: I get it. You know, you gotta put some markers

1397
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:50,000
Speaker 1: out there and have some goals and whatever. But the

1398
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 1: fact that we're talking about it and trying to conserve

1399
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 1: more land, more water, more water sheds, and we've said

1400
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 1: let's be aggressive and try to do it by some date. Hey,

1401
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 1: even if it doesn't meet all that, for those of

1402
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 1: us who love wild places, wild things, want cleaner and

1403
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 1: clean water, it's an effort that is headed the right direction. Yeah,

1404
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:16,960
Speaker 1: I really, I really am bullish bullish on it, I think,

1405
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 1: And like you said, there's a lot of a lot

1406
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:20,680
Speaker 1: that has to be sort out in the details, and

1407
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 1: we have to be I think, really vocal in how

1408
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 1: this stuff happens, to make sure that you know that

1409
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 1: the hunting and fishing communities perspective has heard on whatever

1410
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 1: ends up happening, Right, I think that's important. But for

1411
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 1: so long we've been on the defensive. Here's a chance

1412
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,840
Speaker 1: to be an offense. Like, let's run with that, let's

1413
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 1: push the ball forward. Because you look at the big

1414
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 1: story of you know, America the last hundred and fifty years,

1415
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 1: and it's just less and less and less wild places,

1416
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 1: less and less wilderness, more and more development, more and

1417
01:28:55,960 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: more species lost. Um. You know, we gotta verse that,

1418
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:02,680
Speaker 1: we got to reverse the trend. We gotta at least

1419
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 1: try And here's a proposal to to try to do that. Um.

1420
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: I think that's someplace that you know, we hunters are

1421
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:15,560
Speaker 1: perfectly positioned to to lead on. Um. Given the fact that,

1422
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 1: as you've said, like oftentimes we are kind of middle

1423
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 1: of the spectrum. We can speak to the realities of

1424
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 1: both sides, and we can speak to a middle ground

1425
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 1: that can take us forward. Um, it's just harder to

1426
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 1: do that. It seems like it's really easy. I think

1427
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 1: the thing we saw with the and you tell me

1428
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: if you think I'm wrong on this, because you're way

1429
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 1: deeper into this than I am. But it seems like

1430
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 1: with the land transfer movement and everything there, it's really

1431
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 1: easy to get people piste off and fired up enough

1432
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:47,479
Speaker 1: to do something when you say we're gonna take something

1433
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:50,680
Speaker 1: away from you. Like right, that's easy to get someone

1434
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 1: fired up at It's it's harder to get someone fired

1435
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 1: up when we say, hey, if you work really hard,

1436
01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 1: you can get this new thing. Um, that's a harder

1437
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 1: thing to sell. Um. If we can somehow move in

1438
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 1: that direction, though, like God, there's some good stuff that

1439
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 1: could come with this. Um, I'm just I'm hopeful. I

1440
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 1: hope that we can't. Hope it's something that we can

1441
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:16,840
Speaker 1: put some concrete details around it. We can have a

1442
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 1: voice at the table that we can try to staunch

1443
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:23,559
Speaker 1: the bleeding that's happened in a lot of different ways

1444
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 1: over the last hundred years. Um, you know we can

1445
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 1: be the solution, oh for sure. And anyone who doubts

1446
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 1: that that sentiment is not there to do better and

1447
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 1: to improve the landscapes and conserve more. Uh. Colorado College

1448
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 1: hardly a bastion of you know, Ivory Towers. This is

1449
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: known to be uh. You know it's where a lot

1450
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: of the mining and engineering and other graduates coming out

1451
01:30:56,160 --> 01:31:00,400
Speaker 1: of the Colorado systems and uh they do a survey.

1452
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 1: Uh it's uh called this I think it's called conservation

1453
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 1: in the West Pole. They've been doing it for quite

1454
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 1: a while now, and uh, seventy two or seventy three

1455
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 1: percent of the Western residents and or the residents of

1456
01:31:18,439 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 1: Western states said that they are in favor of the

1457
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:28,599
Speaker 1: ideas that underpinned this thirty by thirty. Well, that's that's

1458
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: the I mean, when you're at over seventy percent of

1459
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:34,639
Speaker 1: support for something, that's you don't have to worry about

1460
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 1: a pole having a bad margin of air at that point,

1461
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:44,759
Speaker 1: you know. That's so the the sentiment among the people

1462
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 1: living on the landscape is there. The question is can

1463
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 1: we convert that to action among our elected bodies in

1464
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:58,200
Speaker 1: our institutions. And I hope we can because I you know,

1465
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 1: when people tell me I don't know about that, that yeah,

1466
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: I don't trust those people. It's like, okay, so you

1467
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:09,680
Speaker 1: want dirty yer air, you want dirty or water. You

1468
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:13,639
Speaker 1: want fewer fish, you want fewer elk, you want less

1469
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 1: public land, you want worse habitat the Usually they're like,

1470
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 1: can we talk about football? Yeah? You know, it's it's

1471
01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 1: it's there's that Leopold quote when he said the danger

1472
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:35,559
Speaker 1: of uh, you know, having an ecologist education is living

1473
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,240
Speaker 1: alone in a world of wounds something like that, which

1474
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 1: basically is like the more you paying attention to this stuff,

1475
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:44,599
Speaker 1: the more you realize how much damage has been done.

1476
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:47,840
Speaker 1: And and you know, over the last decade, as I've

1477
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:50,680
Speaker 1: started studying more and more of this, and you know,

1478
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 1: you just see how much stuff has changed since fifty

1479
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 1: years ago, we're eighty years ago. And I don't know,

1480
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 1: I just keep going back to if, if we don't

1481
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:04,280
Speaker 1: take a stand. You know, our kids are not going

1482
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 1: to have the same opportunities we had. They're one of

1483
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:09,760
Speaker 1: the same places we had. Um. And and I think,

1484
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 1: coming kind of full circle our whole conversation, like, here's

1485
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 1: this opportunity, but because it's being presented by one side

1486
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:19,600
Speaker 1: of the aisle, the impulse is no way this is

1487
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 1: gonna be you know, this is gonna be a poison pill. Um,

1488
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 1: let's make sure it isn't. Let's be so damn loud

1489
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,800
Speaker 1: and involved. Let's make sure that this is just as

1490
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 1: much of a republican plan as a democratic Like, let's

1491
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 1: push on our side or whatever side do you feel

1492
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:37,560
Speaker 1: like you are on and say, hey, no, own this,

1493
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:39,920
Speaker 1: you own this, let's all own this. Let's make sure

1494
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 1: that this is a biparson thing. Let's make sure that

1495
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:46,760
Speaker 1: this is something that three years from now, Democrats and

1496
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 1: Republicans are fighting over who can be the best on

1497
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:53,400
Speaker 1: conservating more Land, Um, so they can get elected or reelected. Um.

1498
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:55,639
Speaker 1: We're kind of at the stage in this whole issue

1499
01:33:55,680 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: that I think that we can still influence. You know,

1500
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:03,439
Speaker 1: what it actually looks like on the ground. So it

1501
01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 1: seems like a great opportunity. Oh it is. And and

1502
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:10,560
Speaker 1: even if it doesn't become thirty by thirty, if it

1503
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 1: takes some other name or some other form, I don't

1504
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 1: really care. You can call it the you know, blue

1505
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:23,720
Speaker 1: Skies and Rainbows bill. It doesn't matter to me what

1506
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,200
Speaker 1: I care about. And I don't care who sponsors it.

1507
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 1: I care about the fact that it would put priority,

1508
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:34,200
Speaker 1: it would put funding, It would give guidance to agencies

1509
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:36,559
Speaker 1: that this is something we need to consider in all

1510
01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 1: of our lane management decisions. And we are going to

1511
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:44,960
Speaker 1: make the affirmative statement that we're here two. Instead of

1512
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:49,120
Speaker 1: play defense on these conservation issues, we're gonna play some offense,

1513
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 1: you know. And I like that, you know, Yeah, it's uh,

1514
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 1: it's it's it's on us. I mean, all these things,

1515
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 1: all these places if we if we fight the fight

1516
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 1: in and win, we'll probably have to fight the fight

1517
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:10,680
Speaker 1: again five years from now or ten years from now.

1518
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:14,360
Speaker 1: If we fight the fight and lose, it's usually gone forever.

1519
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:19,400
Speaker 1: So when it comes to these places or or these protections,

1520
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,439
Speaker 1: it's it's something that we just have to keep on

1521
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:24,360
Speaker 1: keeping on. And if you ever have the opportunity to

1522
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:26,599
Speaker 1: switch from defense to offense, like gosh, it just seems

1523
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 1: like you gotta jump on it. And it seems like

1524
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:30,800
Speaker 1: there's a little sliver of opportunity in this area to

1525
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:33,680
Speaker 1: go on offense. Now with that right, as we talked

1526
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 1: about earlier, there's all these other places that now we

1527
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 1: have to play heavy defense. Um. And that's a whole

1528
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:41,720
Speaker 1: another story. But in this case, let's let's move on

1529
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:46,120
Speaker 1: this one. Now. There's one other kind of pivot that

1530
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts on real quick before

1531
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:50,760
Speaker 1: we run out of your time. And thank you for

1532
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 1: for for letting me drown on and ask pick your

1533
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 1: brain about all these things. Um. And this isn't really

1534
01:35:57,560 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 1: as much maybe it's a little bit. It's not as

1535
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 1: much like public policy, but it's more publicly in use.

1536
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:05,960
Speaker 1: Something that a lot of people saw over the last

1537
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:09,080
Speaker 1: year with the whole COVID impact, But I think it

1538
01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:12,760
Speaker 1: was just, ah, this is something that's been happening over

1539
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:16,560
Speaker 1: years and years, but COVID just emphasized it's it's the

1540
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 1: fact that we're loving our public lands to death. In

1541
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: some cases, right there was this overcrowding in a lot

1542
01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:26,439
Speaker 1: of places. There was more new people coming to these landscapes,

1543
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:30,120
Speaker 1: which is great, but also maybe not understanding the etiquette

1544
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 1: of some of these places and leaving toilet paper everywhere,

1545
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:36,439
Speaker 1: trash everywhere, different stuff like that. Um, there's all sorts

1546
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:40,960
Speaker 1: of debate right now within uh my own little universe

1547
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:47,519
Speaker 1: around hunter recruitment and um, that whole thing. Um. So

1548
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious about your take on where

1549
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:56,200
Speaker 1: we stand now and overcrowding. I don't know, maybe over

1550
01:36:56,360 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 1: overcrowding implies a position, so I would say, are we

1551
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 1: at risk of loving our public lands to death? Or

1552
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:06,720
Speaker 1: how do we handle increasing use. I'm just kind of

1553
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 1: curious on what's the Randy Newburgh unfiltered opinion on all

1554
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:14,040
Speaker 1: things related to that. Uh well, I thought, like you

1555
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:16,680
Speaker 1: did you know, last summer in Montana, we did not

1556
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:20,560
Speaker 1: close the state, So anyone who had at a vacation

1557
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:22,640
Speaker 1: plan to a state that was closed. I think they

1558
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 1: came to Montana. I've never seen that many people on

1559
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 1: our rivers ever, and I thought, oh, they'll go away

1560
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 1: once labor Day comes. Nope, they took up hiking and

1561
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:36,040
Speaker 1: backpacking and mountain biking and everything else. Some of them

1562
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:40,960
Speaker 1: took up hunting. Uh so, a pandemic once in a

1563
01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:44,320
Speaker 1: hunter year, once in a century pandemic did more to

1564
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:47,799
Speaker 1: increase the interest in outdoor activities than all the recruiting

1565
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:52,519
Speaker 1: we've ever done in my lifetime. And that comes with

1566
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:57,439
Speaker 1: its consequences, and it it's like everything, nothing is all

1567
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 1: good or all bad. There's some good that comes of this.

1568
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 1: Some of these people will stick with the outdoors and

1569
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:07,720
Speaker 1: it will become their lifestyle and they'll become the next

1570
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:11,120
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. They will become the next you know whoever

1571
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:15,439
Speaker 1: conservation voices and leaders, or they'll just be you know,

1572
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:18,720
Speaker 1: someone who participates. But they help fund the system and

1573
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:23,080
Speaker 1: the majority of these people the next time some other

1574
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 1: cool fad comes along. Skiing has seen these peaks and valleys,

1575
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:32,120
Speaker 1: as has you know, golf and all kinds of activities. Uh,

1576
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:33,840
Speaker 1: it will come and go. There will be their fair

1577
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 1: weather folks um. But what it does illustrate is the

1578
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:45,799
Speaker 1: absolute critical importance of access. And I don't like talking

1579
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:50,679
Speaker 1: about these issues of crowding or hunter densities or whatever

1580
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:55,880
Speaker 1: in the single context of densities or hunting pressure or

1581
01:38:55,920 --> 01:39:00,320
Speaker 1: their single context of this or that. It's multifact set it.

1582
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:04,840
Speaker 1: We have the issue of access. Every time we lose

1583
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:10,439
Speaker 1: access to development, two bad hunter behavior and a landowner

1584
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:15,000
Speaker 1: closes their land to somebody comes in and forms a

1585
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 1: hunt club. Where ten people used to hunt this farm,

1586
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:21,519
Speaker 1: and now two people hunt this farm. You've displaced eight

1587
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:25,680
Speaker 1: people over to the public lends. Some rancher gets you know,

1588
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:28,960
Speaker 1: something goes wrong there, some bad hunter behavior. He used

1589
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:32,080
Speaker 1: to let forty people a year hunters place, and now

1590
01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:35,200
Speaker 1: he closes it. Those forty people are now on public lands.

1591
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:43,320
Speaker 1: So we are seeing in increase in hunter densities because

1592
01:39:43,360 --> 01:39:47,479
Speaker 1: of many things. Yes, we've got this pandemic. I don't

1593
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:51,080
Speaker 1: think our three has really been that effective, and in

1594
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:56,080
Speaker 1: my this is my personal view, it has not. For

1595
01:39:56,200 --> 01:39:59,800
Speaker 1: the amount of money spent. The results aren't that great.

1596
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:03,519
Speaker 1: And some would say, oh, come on, you're you're being

1597
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:08,720
Speaker 1: too critical. Maybe I am, but I built my platforms

1598
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:12,840
Speaker 1: based on the idea of access and advocates for public

1599
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:17,800
Speaker 1: land and public access, and every study we ever read

1600
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:22,080
Speaker 1: about why hunters quit hunting, why they don't hunt as

1601
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 1: much as they previously did, or why they didn't get

1602
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:28,639
Speaker 1: into hunting when they come from a family or background

1603
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:33,280
Speaker 1: where they normally would be inclined to become hunters. The

1604
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:38,560
Speaker 1: top answer given to those three questions is access. So

1605
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 1: if we don't have a place to hunt, all the

1606
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:43,439
Speaker 1: R three in the world doesn't do us any good.

1607
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:49,200
Speaker 1: And the other pronged to that is conservation. If we

1608
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 1: have access, but there's no remaining wildlife there because of

1609
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:55,880
Speaker 1: how we've managed it, how we've managed the landscape, and

1610
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:58,720
Speaker 1: the wildlife has all moved to other places that are

1611
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 1: inaccessible where we don't have anything going for us. So

1612
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:08,840
Speaker 1: I get that some are looking at last year and saying,

1613
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:13,560
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what a tide of people. Yeah, I

1614
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,120
Speaker 1: don't know how much trash I picked up last year.

1615
01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:19,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how many camps I had said at

1616
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 1: Trailheads were non hunter just campers, and you know, public

1617
01:41:22,920 --> 01:41:25,160
Speaker 1: land user just average citizens game and set up a

1618
01:41:25,200 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 1: camp next to us. And I'm with you, Mark, there

1619
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:32,720
Speaker 1: they must be new because what they understood about etiquette

1620
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 1: with left a lot to be desired. But I think

1621
01:41:37,439 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 1: we can look at some of this and say, even

1622
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:42,280
Speaker 1: those who lee, who view this and they come and

1623
01:41:42,360 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 1: try it and they say it's not for me, even

1624
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:50,360
Speaker 1: those who have come and experienced it and leave, Having

1625
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:56,880
Speaker 1: that awareness in our citizenry is useful in the bigger

1626
01:41:57,000 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 1: picture of access, of content, servation of clean air, clean water,

1627
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:04,720
Speaker 1: of all the things we love. I I can't look

1628
01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:09,040
Speaker 1: at it through just a one dimensional window. To me,

1629
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:12,680
Speaker 1: it has way more pieces it. Yes, it has the

1630
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:15,720
Speaker 1: number of people on the landscape, and it's not just

1631
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 1: on the landscape, but on the landscape. At the same time,

1632
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:24,000
Speaker 1: fishing was crowded, hunting was crowded, camping was crowded. But

1633
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:29,599
Speaker 1: if that doesn't show us the importance of maintaining every

1634
01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:35,280
Speaker 1: bit of access we can and hopefully expanding an increasing

1635
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:39,720
Speaker 1: more access, I don't know what kind of an illustration

1636
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:43,120
Speaker 1: we need to convince us of the importance of access

1637
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:48,519
Speaker 1: and access to places that are good habitat with good

1638
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:53,719
Speaker 1: amounts of game. Yeah, that's that's the Randy Newberg version

1639
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 1: of that. Well, I I appreciated it. I um, I'm

1640
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:00,800
Speaker 1: right there with you when it comes to the fact

1641
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:04,080
Speaker 1: that it's this interesting kind of chicken and egg deal

1642
01:43:04,360 --> 01:43:09,720
Speaker 1: because we need enough places, we need enough access for

1643
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 1: people to go out there and have these experiences. But

1644
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 1: to keep those places and to keep that access, we

1645
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:16,599
Speaker 1: need people that care about them to fight for them

1646
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:18,400
Speaker 1: and make sure they don't keep getting tipped away at

1647
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:21,920
Speaker 1: So where I fall on this is that, man, I'm

1648
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:24,000
Speaker 1: all for more people getting out there and seeing these

1649
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:26,559
Speaker 1: things and and hiking or camping, or learning to hunt

1650
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 1: or learning to fish or experiencing that, like you said,

1651
01:43:29,560 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: whether they stick with it or just come and go.

1652
01:43:32,920 --> 01:43:36,640
Speaker 1: Nobody watches, at least not many people in my experience,

1653
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:41,479
Speaker 1: watch a Netflix documentary about Yellowstone or something and then

1654
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:44,760
Speaker 1: become lifelong advocates for wild places and really give a

1655
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:47,519
Speaker 1: damn after they watch something on TV. But if you

1656
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:50,599
Speaker 1: go out there and experience it, you know, you hear

1657
01:43:51,160 --> 01:43:53,559
Speaker 1: an elk bugle at night, or you get out there

1658
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:55,559
Speaker 1: and a bear walks up on your while you're fishing

1659
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:57,800
Speaker 1: and you have that powerful experience, or you you kill

1660
01:43:57,880 --> 01:44:01,280
Speaker 1: your first ear and you eat that. You have experiences

1661
01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:04,720
Speaker 1: like that that transform you and change you from someone

1662
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: who watches something to actually becoming someone who does something.

1663
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,720
Speaker 1: And I think the more people we can get that

1664
01:44:11,960 --> 01:44:15,599
Speaker 1: care enough about these places to do something, the better

1665
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 1: it is for all of us in the long run.

1666
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:20,479
Speaker 1: So I'm for it, and I think the I think

1667
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:23,479
Speaker 1: the one thing I would say that I think this,

1668
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 1: and nobody will. Nobody likes to hear this, Nobody likes

1669
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:28,280
Speaker 1: more responsibility. But I think with this it comes with

1670
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:31,960
Speaker 1: more responsibility for us that already know what we're doing

1671
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:34,120
Speaker 1: out there, that already have had these experiences. It comes

1672
01:44:34,160 --> 01:44:37,240
Speaker 1: on comes down to the responsibility we have now to

1673
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:41,600
Speaker 1: not bitch and moan about them, but instead to educate, like,

1674
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 1: let's help. Let's let's help someone, like, hey, you came

1675
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:46,640
Speaker 1: out here, you set up camp right next to me,

1676
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:49,840
Speaker 1: and you know I could be an irritator. You pull

1677
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:51,639
Speaker 1: up your boat right next to me while I'm fishing

1678
01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:54,559
Speaker 1: this riser here in the corner and you started casting

1679
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:56,920
Speaker 1: the same fish. Like that might be like something where

1680
01:44:56,920 --> 01:44:59,479
Speaker 1: I could get piste off at you. But instead, let's

1681
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:02,200
Speaker 1: let's teach people. Let's share our experience. Let's say, hey,

1682
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:04,639
Speaker 1: you know what, maybe that's not what I would recommend

1683
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,040
Speaker 1: to do, but here's something to try. Over here, or

1684
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:11,280
Speaker 1: let's teach people about and leave no trace ethics, or

1685
01:45:11,439 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 1: teach people how to how to hunt. You know, I

1686
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:17,760
Speaker 1: don't know. I just I just think there's an opportunity.

1687
01:45:17,880 --> 01:45:20,920
Speaker 1: Let's let's look as an opportunity and teach versus this

1688
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 1: threat that we're gonna bemoan. I'm a hundred percent on

1689
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:28,200
Speaker 1: board with you there, Mark, That's one thing I I

1690
01:45:28,439 --> 01:45:33,240
Speaker 1: was trying to bring forth in in my wandering way.

1691
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:36,920
Speaker 1: I think this is an opportunity and if we view

1692
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:40,320
Speaker 1: it as a threat or an encumbrance or you know,

1693
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 1: messing up my way of doing things, we're gonna miss

1694
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:45,720
Speaker 1: that opportunity. So I'm I'm a hundred percent with you.

1695
01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:49,400
Speaker 1: This is an opportunity. And I don't think we'll ever

1696
01:45:49,479 --> 01:45:52,080
Speaker 1: get this opportunity again, and I know we won't in

1697
01:45:52,160 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 1: my lifetime. I hope we don't in my lifetime. I

1698
01:45:54,560 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 1: hope we have no more pandemics. But yeah, uh so

1699
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,720
Speaker 1: are we going to squander it? Or are we gonna

1700
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: find the benefits in it and take advantage of those

1701
01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 1: and move forward? Yeah? Well, Randy, I uh I hope

1702
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:14,320
Speaker 1: that's the case. And uh man, I'll tell you one

1703
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:16,040
Speaker 1: thing that makes me confident that we have a chance

1704
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:17,880
Speaker 1: of doing that is that we have people like you

1705
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:21,400
Speaker 1: who are fighting the good fight and spreading the good words.

1706
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:24,519
Speaker 1: So I appreciate your Randy, Thank you for talking with

1707
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:27,599
Speaker 1: me about this stuff and sharing your perspective and everything

1708
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:30,679
Speaker 1: you're doing well. Thank you, Mark. And that goes both

1709
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:33,680
Speaker 1: ways that I you know, you and I get to

1710
01:46:33,760 --> 01:46:38,200
Speaker 1: talk a lot offline, and I have so much respect

1711
01:46:38,280 --> 01:46:41,320
Speaker 1: for what you're doing and in the voice you provide,

1712
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:44,759
Speaker 1: in the audience you have. So I'm I'm honored anytime

1713
01:46:45,080 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 1: that you'll have me on and uh, please keep doing

1714
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:52,320
Speaker 1: what you're doing well. Thank you. I'm gonna say one

1715
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 1: thing that I promise I'm not gonna wait four more

1716
01:46:55,120 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 1: years to get you back on the podcast. That's insane.

1717
01:46:58,360 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 1: I don't know how that happens. You're gonna You're gonna

1718
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:03,920
Speaker 1: have to get used to me calling any more often

1719
01:47:04,040 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 1: here because this just needs to happen more and more.

1720
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,080
Speaker 1: Maybe we should do it in a duck blind or something. Hey,

1721
01:47:10,280 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 1: I'm all for that. Would that be cool? I wonder

1722
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: what your audience would think. I follow a sudden you

1723
01:47:15,320 --> 01:47:17,640
Speaker 1: and I both went silent, and they hear take them.

1724
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:21,439
Speaker 1: I think they'd probably like a lot better than hearing

1725
01:47:21,479 --> 01:47:25,599
Speaker 1: me job all the time. At least one last thing,

1726
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:28,760
Speaker 1: Randy for for people that want more of what you've

1727
01:47:28,800 --> 01:47:31,920
Speaker 1: got going on, um, can you point people in the

1728
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:35,760
Speaker 1: direction of either the more you know generic platforms or

1729
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:38,040
Speaker 1: any specific things that might be of interest. Are there

1730
01:47:38,040 --> 01:47:41,320
Speaker 1: any really interesting podcasts you've dropped recently or video projects

1731
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:44,120
Speaker 1: that you think people should seek out that are relevant

1732
01:47:44,160 --> 01:47:45,720
Speaker 1: to some of the things we talked about. Anything like

1733
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:48,880
Speaker 1: that I'd love to hear about. I appreciate that, Mark. Uh.

1734
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:54,479
Speaker 1: This spring has been really really busy, uh with legislative stuff,

1735
01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:57,120
Speaker 1: so a lot of our content has been focused on

1736
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:01,960
Speaker 1: policy legislation, how to be engaged, how to be involved.

1737
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:05,040
Speaker 1: We've got YouTube episodes coming out on that on our

1738
01:48:05,120 --> 01:48:09,200
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. I think we've dropped two podcasts already on

1739
01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:13,960
Speaker 1: the topic, and we're gonna be doing more of that. Um. So, yeah,

1740
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:18,439
Speaker 1: you've been on my Hunt Talk radio podcast before. Pretty

1741
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:21,400
Speaker 1: easy to find that. And then our YouTube channel is

1742
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:26,000
Speaker 1: Randy Newburgh Hunter and that's the same for Facebook and Instagram,

1743
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:29,680
Speaker 1: and so uh yeah, if people want to go there

1744
01:48:29,720 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: and find it, we love the feedback. If they want

1745
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:35,920
Speaker 1: more of this, less of it, And what we're finding is,

1746
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:40,040
Speaker 1: as much as people may not want it, they're saying, hey,

1747
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:43,679
Speaker 1: thanks for putting that out there. It's it's it's helpful

1748
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:47,640
Speaker 1: to to understand it and to realize how important it is.

1749
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:52,519
Speaker 1: And I've seen so much more active engagement this year

1750
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:55,639
Speaker 1: than I have in previous years. I'm really encouraged by

1751
01:48:56,240 --> 01:48:59,400
Speaker 1: how people are getting after it. So that's great. Well,

1752
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:03,000
Speaker 1: I uh, I would certainly encourage anyone listening to to

1753
01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:05,320
Speaker 1: go and check all that out. I can tell you

1754
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:08,000
Speaker 1: from personal experience, everything that you've put out there, Randy

1755
01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:11,439
Speaker 1: has been both entertaining and helpful to me personally and

1756
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:13,880
Speaker 1: a lot of folks and know so uh so, thanks

1757
01:49:13,920 --> 01:49:16,160
Speaker 1: to that, Randy, and thank you for thanks for this.

1758
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:20,240
Speaker 1: It was a fun chat. Yeah, thanks Mark anytime. Take care.

1759
01:49:22,120 --> 01:49:24,800
Speaker 1: All right, that's a rap. I hope you enjoyed this one.

1760
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:27,439
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. You know, if this kind of

1761
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:30,519
Speaker 1: stuff intrigues you, if you're interested in learning more about

1762
01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:33,840
Speaker 1: public lands, public land history, public land policy, public land

1763
01:49:34,360 --> 01:49:37,479
Speaker 1: challenges and opportunities and all that kind of stuff, there's

1764
01:49:37,479 --> 01:49:39,560
Speaker 1: a book on all this. I don't know if you

1765
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:42,160
Speaker 1: ever heard of it. It's called That Wild Country an

1766
01:49:42,200 --> 01:49:45,080
Speaker 1: epic journey through the past, present, and future of America's

1767
01:49:45,120 --> 01:49:49,640
Speaker 1: public lands. And I wrote it probably nine percent of

1768
01:49:49,720 --> 01:49:51,479
Speaker 1: you are rolling your eyes because you've heard me talk

1769
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:54,720
Speaker 1: about a million times. So thanks for baron with you

1770
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:56,840
Speaker 1: on this. But if you're new and you haven't heard

1771
01:49:56,840 --> 01:49:59,320
Speaker 1: of that book yet, I gotta recommend you check it

1772
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:01,760
Speaker 1: out because is uh. I hope all the time I

1773
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:05,400
Speaker 1: put into it is reflected with it being actually helpful

1774
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:07,840
Speaker 1: and uh and I think I think, I hope it is.

1775
01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:11,800
Speaker 1: So that's all for me. Appreciate you, enjoy the rest

1776
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:16,679
Speaker 1: of your week, and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.