Speaker 1: You've probably heard of fight club. It's the place where
Speaker 1: if you get in it, you can't talk about it. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not tough enough or quiet enough to even be
Speaker 1: in that club, but I am part of a UFO
Speaker 1: lunch club, and every so often a gang of us
Speaker 1: who work in showbiz and we care about UFOs. We
Speaker 1: all get together at a restaurant in the valley. We
Speaker 1: engage in some championship dining, kick around what we're working on,
Speaker 1: talk about what's new in the whole UAP world, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. It's great fun. The food is good,
Speaker 1: but the company's better. And the current roster includes my
Speaker 1: pals Andy Ceriano, Sylvan White, Dave Foley, all of whom
Speaker 1: have Insane credits and are actively working in the business today.
Speaker 1: Today's guest on Sound, Light and Frequency is in that
Speaker 1: club too. He's a filmmaker whose career feels almost genetically
Speaker 1: engineered for our show. Dean Aliotto is the writer and
Speaker 1: the director behind The McPherson Tape, the nineteen eighty nine
Speaker 1: alien abduction film that helped invent the whole found footage genre,
Speaker 1: and right now he's got a new documentary out, The
Speaker 1: ex Answers Full disclosure and it's a banger, man. I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you we're gonna be talking about that and
Speaker 1: a lot of other things. And he's bringing with him
Speaker 1: an exclusive clip to the show from his interview with
Speaker 1: Travis Walton. So that is worth waiting around for. But
Speaker 1: before we bring Dean into the sound Light and Frequency Mothership, though,
Speaker 1: let me just pull in my co host Brent Friedman. Brent,
Speaker 1: are you there?
Speaker 2: Hello?
Speaker 1: Brent, there you are.
Speaker 2: I'm just beamed down to earth.
Speaker 1: You just beamed in. Listen, I know you. Speaking of
Speaker 1: being beamed, you were working your ass off on Call
Speaker 1: of Duty this week. Thanks for making the time to
Speaker 1: come on in. What's going on? What are you working on?
Speaker 2: I think we joked about this on Jesse Michael's show
Speaker 2: that the only thing that is going to be slower
Speaker 2: drip disclosure than about UAP and aliens is call of duty.
Speaker 1: I absolutely cannot say anything. Oh excellent, I won't slow
Speaker 1: drip that anymore. I'll tell you I got the opposite issue.
Speaker 1: We are recording this right now a few days after
Speaker 1: I just did an appearance on Coast to Coast AM
Speaker 1: with George Nori, and that's the one where you go
Speaker 1: on the air at midnight, or at least that's the
Speaker 1: slot they'd always give me midnight till two am, which
Speaker 1: means I end up caffeinating at eleven thirty at night
Speaker 1: so that I can be alert for the show, and
Speaker 1: then after the show, I can't sleep, so it's a
Speaker 1: last day. But something interesting occurred to me though, Brent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I've been doing Coast to Coast for a while.
Speaker 1: I did an original Coast to Coast with Art Bell
Speaker 1: back in ninety six. This is, of course, right when
Speaker 1: Dark Skies was debuting, right, And what I thought was
Speaker 1: so interesting about it is the appearance I did with
Speaker 1: Art Bell was just a couple of weeks after jc
Speaker 1: Krashtar party and a week after he brought his superior
Speaker 1: officer out to the office. And yet if you listen
Speaker 1: to the interview I did with Art Bell on Coast
Speaker 1: to Coast, that never comes up. He wouldn't have thought
Speaker 1: to ask about it, and even though I had just
Speaker 1: lived through it, I didn't feel like talking about it.
Speaker 1: I have a theory on that I'd love to hear
Speaker 1: it at please.
Speaker 2: Because I actually don't remember us discussing or war gaming.
Speaker 2: What is Bryce going to say on art Bell Show.
Speaker 2: My guess is that your instinct at that time was
Speaker 2: similar to mine, And I'll call it the Strieber conundrum. Right,
Speaker 2: if you're a Hollywood writer of fiction and you start
Speaker 2: talking about really strange true stories set in the UFO universe,
Speaker 2: people are just going to assume you're making everything up.
Speaker 2: And then you get into terms like, oh, he's an
Speaker 2: inside man, he's part of the propaganda problem. Whatever the
Speaker 2: case is, there's a credibility issue when people who work
Speaker 2: in Hollywood start telling what they insist are true stories.
Speaker 2: And I think even to this day, it's very hard,
Speaker 2: as I think our guests today will attest to stride
Speaker 2: that bides the fence where you're working both in fiction
Speaker 2: and in fact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is all one hundred percent true, and I
Speaker 1: think there's just only one other aspect of it. It
Speaker 1: was so fresh in my mind what had just happened,
Speaker 1: but I was so not clear in my mind as
Speaker 1: to why it happened or how it happened. And we,
Speaker 1: of course were in the middle of producing the show,
Speaker 1: so there wasn't a lot of time to think about it,
Speaker 1: And like you said, the last thing I thought I
Speaker 1: should be doing is opening up that, because then people
Speaker 1: are like, wait, people would have gotten it wrong. I
Speaker 1: heard that they were working with the Office of Naval
Speaker 1: Intelligence on their which was not true or anything like that.
Speaker 1: You do bring up an interesting point, which we're going
Speaker 1: to be getting into with Dean in just a few minutes.
Speaker 1: But this whole cover of fiction thing, which is what
Speaker 1: Dark Skies was right. So you were saying the whole
Speaker 1: conceit of the series, which was a dramatic piece of
Speaker 1: fiction put on a television network, was that we were
Speaker 1: telling the truth under the cover of fiction. And I
Speaker 1: think what Dean will tell us is his own little
Speaker 1: brush with that, which I find equally fascinating. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I can't wait to discuss it.
Speaker 1: What else is on your mind these days? Are you
Speaker 1: getting people talking to you at all about Disclosure Day?
Speaker 1: If you heard any reaction to that.
Speaker 2: The most common reaction I've heard is people who have
Speaker 2: seen it were a little confused or disappointed. Their expectations
Speaker 2: were off, and they went back to see it another
Speaker 2: time or two, and each time they saw it they
Speaker 2: enjoyed it more. And I think that seems to be
Speaker 2: the kind of parabola that most people are having with
Speaker 2: this disclosure day.
Speaker 1: I did enjoy it more, but seeing it twice now,
Speaker 1: the second time I enjoyed it more. I think just
Speaker 1: because I was ready to just give in to the
Speaker 1: experience and see if I could pick up some of
Speaker 1: the details. It's still not a perfect film, but it's
Speaker 1: a good film, and it's about something that I love
Speaker 1: to talk about, so what's not to like. Okay, enough
Speaker 1: of all this. We're going to take a short break
Speaker 1: here with which allows our friends at iHeart to keep
Speaker 1: the lights on and the MIC's hot for us, and
Speaker 1: then we'll be back with the Dean of the Ufology,
Speaker 1: Dean Alioto stand by.
Speaker 2: I'm Brent Friedman. Years ago, a family friend who became
Speaker 2: a cabinet member in the Reagan administration disclosed to me
Speaker 2: that aliens are real. They're here, and he'd seen them.
Speaker 1: I'm Bryce is Abel. Later, when we were producing Dark Skies,
Speaker 1: an NBCTV series about an alien invasion, we were approached
Speaker 1: by men who said they were from the Office of
Speaker 1: Naval Intelligence and they wanted to give us inside information
Speaker 1: in exchange for access to our show.
Speaker 2: We didn't take that deal, but we have never stopped
Speaker 2: thinking about it.
Speaker 1: That's why we do this podcast. We're working out ideas
Speaker 1: in real time about how Hollywood is portrayed aliens and why.
Speaker 2: Every episode is different because there are so many questions.
Speaker 1: We're looking for answers. It's an active investigation. Let's do
Speaker 1: this together. Dean. I want to welcome you to the show.
Speaker 1: You're not only in the club, but now you're on
Speaker 1: the sound, light and frequency club. So thanks for being here.
Speaker 3: Sorry one second, Steven, right now, and I will get
Speaker 3: to it. You did not get read in.
Speaker 1: I get that.
Speaker 4: I'm going to be telling them I got your back, brother. Okay,
Speaker 4: Now I'm gonna unmute.
Speaker 1: Okay, by I love it. Okay, listen, if in fact
Speaker 1: you can pick up the phone and call mister Spielberg,
Speaker 1: please invite him on the show. Listen, this is an issue.
Speaker 1: We might as well just talk about it. It's interesting
Speaker 1: because Brent has had that experience with Toby Hooper, and
Speaker 1: I know you heard the essence of that story, and
Speaker 1: yet you don't think there's any evidence I gathered that
Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg ever got read into anything. Is that pretty
Speaker 1: much accurate? Yea.
Speaker 3: The first thing, the first rule of Fight Club you're
Speaker 3: going to call back for me is not to talk
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 4: It's that I don't know anything.
Speaker 3: So with that in mind, the only thing I do
Speaker 3: know is that I have this on the back of
Speaker 3: my phone, which is Mayflower and in the movie Close Encounters,
Speaker 3: I'm a total geek.
Speaker 4: Close Encounters a third kind.
Speaker 3: That was a program that Lacombe fon TUFO was heading out.
Speaker 3: And what I did in preper for this is I
Speaker 3: read every single thing I can get my hand on
Speaker 3: online offline.
Speaker 4: I read diaries. I read Spielberg's book which might have
Speaker 4: been written by him. The adaptation.
Speaker 3: Tarantino seems to think he had a ghost writer, possibly,
Speaker 3: which was done a lot back then, and looking at
Speaker 3: it and reverse engineering and looking at all the drafts,
Speaker 3: we've got basically Paul Schrader, who does the first draft.
Speaker 3: He's the one that introduces the spirituality aspect of it,
Speaker 3: so everyone is contributing to this. He did read, obviously
Speaker 3: Heineck's work, because that's where he got the title, and
Speaker 3: I think it cost him ten or twenty thousand that
Speaker 3: he was to donate to Heinick's organization and brought him
Speaker 3: on set.
Speaker 4: There's a little bit of.
Speaker 3: A time bend with regards to was Jacques flat influenced
Speaker 3: was an influence for the character Lacom or did that
Speaker 3: character already exist because there are some drafts where time
Speaker 3: wise there's maybe a discrepancy there. So when I look
Speaker 3: at all of what was available then at the time,
Speaker 3: and I look at allultimately what the message is the
Speaker 3: only thing that is a slight bump. But again, this
Speaker 3: was written. There were conspiracies way back when, and some
Speaker 3: of it's born out not to be conspiracies, like Lockheed Martin.
Speaker 3: The fact they had boxes there is kind of like,
Speaker 3: uh okay, because that factor is heavy into the partitioning
Speaker 3: out the technology to independent companies so that the government
Speaker 3: doesn't have to disclose.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: The thing that's interesting is that, and this is the
Speaker 3: only thing that gave me pause, is that.
Speaker 4: Brent got the first hand.
Speaker 3: And so now that's jacked up my whole big thing
Speaker 3: because I as an independent filmmaker, my job. Half my
Speaker 3: job is looking for funding and any check that I've
Speaker 3: ever gotten for from the government has bounced. I'm always
Speaker 3: looking for financing sources. No one's come to me, and
Speaker 3: I've been at this since nineteen eighty nine. So the
Speaker 3: one thing I know about Toby Hooper is when he
Speaker 3: did the movie Poltergeist, he was working off Spielberg's storyboards
Speaker 3: a lot of it, and I think John Lenette was
Speaker 3: the and John said there was like phone Core, which
Speaker 3: is sheet would but made out of foam, and it
Speaker 3: would have all the storyboards. So the look of that
Speaker 3: Toby Hooper version of Poltergeist is a Spielberg movie. Those
Speaker 3: shots I know as a director, I've studied, reverse engineered
Speaker 3: all that, so not that was kind of hidden, but
Speaker 3: I know that there is some overlap there. So what
Speaker 3: does that mean back to the first Fichael, I don't know.
Speaker 3: And so I'm confused by this, Brent. It's throwing a
Speaker 3: wrench into it that Toby would say that, because a
Speaker 3: lot of times people say stuff based on their belief.
Speaker 3: But did Spielberg actually say yes, I was reading, and
Speaker 3: you're not supposed to say that.
Speaker 1: So Brent, you should probably tell Discatch people real quickly
Speaker 1: if they're joining us in progress, what it was that
Speaker 1: Toby Hooper told you. And by the way, before you
Speaker 1: do that, even John Leonetti, does that ring a bell
Speaker 1: for you? It does?
Speaker 2: Yes, in fact, yeah, he John Lenetti was promoted to
Speaker 2: director of the infamous Mortal Kombat Annihilation movie that Bryce
Speaker 2: and I wrote, and I should have asked John when
Speaker 2: I had access to him about his Poltergeist experience. That
Speaker 2: sounds interesting, although I have heard those rumors as well.
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like rumors though, so really quickly, I
Speaker 2: think context is important to the conversation that I had
Speaker 2: with Toby Hooper preceded Bryce and I being offered a
Speaker 2: deal with the Office of Naval Intelligence because we were
Speaker 2: still scouting the pilot. And yeah, I was with Toby
Speaker 2: Hooper and the right after doing a scout up in
Speaker 2: New Hall Ranch. And what happened was we were sitting
Speaker 2: in a roadhouse having lunch together. Well, everyone else in
Speaker 2: the scouting team was off talking about logistics and actually working,
Speaker 2: and Toby and I were just shooting the breeze. And
Speaker 2: I said to him, knowing that he had what he
Speaker 2: had told me was a competitive, friendly, competitive relationship with Steven,
Speaker 2: I said, you're finally going to have something over on Stephen.
Speaker 2: And he's like, what's that? And I said, you're going
Speaker 2: to be the first one to put a crop circle
Speaker 2: on film. He hasn't done that. And he said, I'm
Speaker 2: never going to be ahead of Stephen in this category
Speaker 2: and I was like, what do you mean, and he said,
Speaker 2: after Jaws, he was approached by some intelligence people, I
Speaker 2: think naval intelligence, and he was so successful they offered
Speaker 2: him a deal to get information for influence and he
Speaker 2: took it. And Close Encounters is apparently based on a
Speaker 2: true story or some true story elements, and same with
Speaker 2: ET and I was taken aback by that. This is
Speaker 2: completely shocking to me. And then the only thing that
Speaker 2: surpassed that shock was when you and I got offered
Speaker 2: a deal by naval intelligence. The whole thing just seemed
Speaker 2: incredibly strange and prophetic. I will say this just add
Speaker 2: one more log to the fire. Here we have an
Speaker 2: upcoming episode where someone else heard the same story that
Speaker 2: I did from Toby Hooper. Interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And by the way, Brent Janori, one of the
Speaker 1: first questions he asked me was about that. And I
Speaker 1: attempted to do an impression of you doing an impression
Speaker 1: of Toby Hooper, and I had to abandon that because
Speaker 1: I wasn't very good at it. But it is interesting
Speaker 1: to hear that story, Dean. It doesn't really matter the
Speaker 1: truth of it is almost everything that's in there. He
Speaker 1: could have also gotten out of the context of books
Speaker 1: and the people he talked to.
Speaker 3: I would imagine, Yeah, it's interesting because you have to
Speaker 3: hold both in the hand, and it's like the scales,
Speaker 3: which one is coming up or down. When I look
Speaker 3: at ET, I know because I'm a total geek azoid
Speaker 3: that Et was based on a first draft of this
Speaker 3: script that he was doing, which was going to be
Speaker 3: about the was it not the Kenningberg The.
Speaker 4: Story in nineteen was nineteen fifties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Kentucky, I think, yes, thank you, where the family
Speaker 3: gets assaulted, and so he was going to do this
Speaker 3: because it was interested in that. The thing with Stephen
Speaker 3: is that he's got Stephen mister Spielberg, is that he's
Speaker 3: got this side to him because he was a prankster
Speaker 3: when he was kid, and he loves horror stories and
Speaker 3: so hence Poltergeist.
Speaker 4: Which he co wrote.
Speaker 1: And so if I think Steve calling.
Speaker 2: There, he doesn't like this, he doesn't like where this
Speaker 2: conversation is, You're going to have.
Speaker 1: To just tell him that we are busy talking about him.
Speaker 4: That was my ring tone for Steven.
Speaker 3: So what happens is is that you have someone who
Speaker 3: who in this case is I reverse engineer this, so
Speaker 3: I go, Okay. Spielberg, when he was going to do
Speaker 3: Twilight Zone the movie, he was going to do one
Speaker 3: called Trick or Treat, and in this episode it was
Speaker 3: going to be that these kids are coming and there's
Speaker 3: this grumpy old guy and trick or treat put a
Speaker 3: stone in our rock in the bag and stuff and
Speaker 3: instigate this. And so these tricker treaters would come and
Speaker 3: he goes to open the door to trick them or whatever,
Speaker 3: and the masks that they're wearing aren't masks and they're actually.
Speaker 4: These brilliant fun but it's a little too dark.
Speaker 3: So he ends up doing Kick the Can, which was
Speaker 3: a remake of the classic episode.
Speaker 4: So Spielberg has that sideer's got that edge.
Speaker 3: So he was going to do this story and the
Speaker 3: family being attacked, but he found this one character in
Speaker 3: the script that he really enjoyed, and so he took
Speaker 3: that character and made him into the movie. Et and
Speaker 3: so ET wasn't written by Spielberg. It was inspired, but
Speaker 3: Melissa Matheson correct wrote.
Speaker 1: It ready Harrison Ford at the time.
Speaker 3: I'm yes, and no relation to Richard Matheson, But so
Speaker 3: I don't see anything in that is extra sauce in
Speaker 3: the phenomenon, So I'm kind of going, Okay, where's that,
Speaker 3: And then we can talk about Disclosure Day again, not
Speaker 3: too much that we haven't already seen. It's good for
Speaker 3: the public to kind of catch up because like the
Speaker 3: word experiencer is mentioned twice twenty minutes in and sixty
Speaker 3: three minutes in the first time in a Hollywood film.
Speaker 4: Thank you Steve much.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm listening to this podcast
Speaker 3: called What Went Wrong, and it's about making movies, and
Speaker 3: they covered Independence Day and Independence Day. They wanted to
Speaker 3: work with the military because it would get all these
Speaker 3: free props and everything, and the military had a list
Speaker 3: of things. They first of all, felt like the military
Speaker 3: guys weren't taken too serious in the fact that Will
Speaker 3: Smith's character was engaged to a stripper.
Speaker 4: They didn't come into that. Didn't like it.
Speaker 3: And one of the things that they had, among other things,
Speaker 3: was the Area fifty one. They said, you can't do that,
Speaker 3: you can't have that in here. We're tired of being
Speaker 3: hassled about Area fifty one. Please remove that whole nonsense,
Speaker 3: they said, right, quote unquote. That was the final straw
Speaker 3: that broke the camel's back, and Dean Devlin, who was
Speaker 3: the co.
Speaker 1: Writer another great beam.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah with Roland Emrick said go f yourself. We're
Speaker 3: gonna go ahead and do this. However, when Transformers came around,
Speaker 3: they went all right, let's give them full on and
Speaker 3: let's cooperate and everything. So, like anything in this field,
Speaker 3: some of it's true, some of its shade of true,
Speaker 3: and some of it's not.
Speaker 1: So listen, we should let's talk about your movie forget.
Speaker 1: I don't know who this Spielberg guy is that he
Speaker 1: should command so much of our attention. It is interesting
Speaker 1: that you point out he uses the word experience or
Speaker 1: twice in the film and what he is in essence saying,
Speaker 1: besides just giving the word a different value, he's saying, hey, folks,
Speaker 1: in addition to all the stuff about lights in the
Speaker 1: sky and orbs and things like that, there's this whole
Speaker 1: thing that we've swept under the rug in polite conversation,
Speaker 1: even in eufology, which is people that have experienced things. Now, Brent,
Speaker 1: you're an experiencer yourself, maybe not of the type in
Speaker 1: Dean's new movie, which is called I Believe the Experiencers
Speaker 1: Full disclosure.
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, half disclosure was taken, so I had to
Speaker 3: go full disclosure.
Speaker 1: I listen. I guess my question is do you think
Speaker 1: that your film is breaking ground or are you reaching
Speaker 1: a different audience. I think I'm asking rather than the
Speaker 1: people like Brent and I and people who listen to
Speaker 1: us often know abductees and experiencers. They know UFOs and UAP,
Speaker 1: we know the terminology things like that. But were you
Speaker 1: reaching past those of us in the sort of the
Speaker 1: euthological movement to a larger audience.
Speaker 3: Well, the challenge of representing anything in this field, and
Speaker 3: that goes with podcasters or radio hosts filmmakers, is you're
Speaker 3: serving two masters. You're serving the UFO community, which knows
Speaker 3: pretty much everything under the sun with regards to what
Speaker 3: the latest and greatest is right, and so they're always
Speaker 3: clamoring for it, give me ne mic drops, and so
Speaker 3: you got to service them, and you have to give
Speaker 3: them mic drops. Then the bigger audience is the general public,
Speaker 3: which you're doing two things. One is you're saying, hey,
Speaker 3: catch up, there's a lot that's been going on since
Speaker 3: I'm sure the last time that you've checked in here,
Speaker 3: And the other is aspect is to inspire them, and
Speaker 3: so if you're UFO curious, this should hopefully get you
Speaker 3: to say, Okay, hold on, what's going on here? Maybe
Speaker 3: I'm going to investigate a little bit more. I'm going
Speaker 3: to look more into this. And so for me, that
Speaker 3: was the main audience because there's the echo chamber effect
Speaker 3: that we have. But I wanted to do something because
Speaker 3: I was on Richard Dolan show and I only mentioned
Speaker 3: that guy because I've never heard of this Richard Dole
Speaker 3: ever heard of again you just call him RD because
Speaker 3: he said this is so weird because there hasn't been
Speaker 3: a documentary with about experiencers in years, and it used
Speaker 3: to be The Dajure, definitely with John Mack in the
Speaker 3: mid to late nineties. And so I looked at it
Speaker 3: and again I didn't intend on doing any of this, guys,
Speaker 3: because of my film, the McPherson tape. I went for
Speaker 3: the twenty fifth anniversary. I went back to the same
Speaker 3: UFO convention where it was shown without my knowledge, without
Speaker 3: the credits as the real McCoy, which Lieutenant Colonel Don
Speaker 3: Ware came out and said this is real, et cetera.
Speaker 4: And I had to go that forced.
Speaker 3: Me to go on national TV to debunk my own movie,
Speaker 3: because I don't need UFO researchers having to take on
Speaker 3: any more crap that's out there.
Speaker 1: I hold that thought for a second, though, because let's
Speaker 1: finish up experiences and then pull vault back in time
Speaker 1: to the We've actually got a clip of your new documentary,
Speaker 1: which I think would be great if we could just
Speaker 1: play it now, and then we'll come back and we'll
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more. So let's take a lore
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: You will not be anxious or distract I can remember everything,
Speaker 2: and you will tell me everything.
Speaker 4: I just thought it was a dream, didn't really think
Speaker 4: anything of it.
Speaker 3: But apparently it's not common to have identical dreams with siblings.
Speaker 4: They took us and they hurt us.
Speaker 6: It's not easy to talk about. That was the greatest
Speaker 6: fear I've ever experienced. What do you remember from that
Speaker 6: moment on? When I regained consciousness, I didn't know where
Speaker 6: I was.
Speaker 4: I felt like I was dying.
Speaker 7: There's something profoundly important going on here.
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like this before.
Speaker 3: I find them compelling and I find them believable.
Speaker 7: They seem to pick people who are particularly strong, stable,
Speaker 7: open minded.
Speaker 2: I'm an experiencer.
Speaker 1: I'm an experiencer, I had experiences.
Speaker 7: What has happened to these people is what they say
Speaker 7: has happened to them, even though I fully recognize that
Speaker 7: that's not possible in the worldview in which they and
Speaker 7: I were raised.
Speaker 4: For a long time, I was very dismissive of abductees,
Speaker 4: which is.
Speaker 8: A weird thing.
Speaker 4: Do not believe when I believe UFOs appealed. We don't
Speaker 4: know what happened to us, and it goes beyond what
Speaker 4: we know or don't know about them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we have a even stretched a surface
Speaker 1: in all science fiction of what aliens could be.
Speaker 8: Like, it's theater, What have any blinking lights?
Speaker 4: That's the show.
Speaker 8: That's the show. Why are these alien beings abducting people?
Speaker 1: It wants to be seen. It wants us to be
Speaker 1: aware of it.
Speaker 5: UFOs and aliens or they may be be us in
Speaker 5: the future.
Speaker 2: Time travel or the interdimensional.
Speaker 3: Watching, lurking stalking.
Speaker 6: Be very simple to eliminate us.
Speaker 4: The entire universe has some kind of intelligence to it.
Speaker 5: What can we learn through the lens of science and
Speaker 5: then all the mysteries that surround it.
Speaker 6: He says, you don't have any reasons to see your praise.
Speaker 7: You.
Speaker 1: Well, that certainly got my attention. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: say a shout out to Dave Foley, who's in there,
Speaker 1: who's part of the Lunch Club by the way, But
Speaker 1: also because he said something that I think has been
Speaker 1: hanging around this subject for so long, and it's the
Speaker 1: simplest thing around, which is he was always skeptical of
Speaker 1: people that said they'd been abducted or now experiencers, and
Speaker 1: yet he believed in UFOs. I think that is one
Speaker 1: of the cleanest issues that's out there, and I think
Speaker 1: that's really what your documentary addresses for people. It says,
Speaker 1: forget about the lights for a second, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the rest of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. One of the things that I've been saying there could.
Speaker 3: Be like a jump cuts or super cuts of it,
Speaker 3: is the hearings have been focusing on the elephant's tail,
Speaker 3: but no one's talking about the elephant in the room.
Speaker 3: And we're there now because we can only talk about
Speaker 3: nuts and bolts for so long, which is important, not
Speaker 3: saying it isn't, but at some point we have to
Speaker 3: talk about why these nhis non human intelligent beings are
Speaker 3: doing swing buys.
Speaker 4: On our planet.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's for in and out burger, but you can
Speaker 3: only hit that a few times and you.
Speaker 4: Go, y, it's I got it. It's good. Maybe I'll
Speaker 4: get animal style next time.
Speaker 3: So it's really more of we need to ask why
Speaker 3: they're swinging by here, what's going on, and we need
Speaker 3: to look at certain data points. We keep pointing it
Speaker 3: to data when it comes to the nuts and bolts.
Speaker 3: But as an example, in nineteen ninety two, there was
Speaker 3: a roper pole which was taken and they asked five
Speaker 3: different questions in their poll to determine if people might
Speaker 3: have been taken based on certain things, whether it's sleep
Speaker 3: paralysis with something in the room, missing time, et cetera.
Speaker 3: They found one in fifty showed more than one displayed
Speaker 3: or acknowledged more than one of these things. If I
Speaker 3: take that and I add that and do math, which
Speaker 3: hurts my brain, Believe me, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 4: But it came out to three.
Speaker 3: Point seven million people on the planet that possibly could
Speaker 3: be experiencers to that degree. And so even if you
Speaker 3: shave off two thirds of that, you're still looking at
Speaker 3: over a million people over the years. And so that
Speaker 3: and along with the other belief that the experiencers are done,
Speaker 3: that they're no longer being abducted, that people aren't being taken.
Speaker 3: You'll see in this documentary we've got two young sisters
Speaker 3: where it's still going.
Speaker 4: On, folks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Circling back to the point you made Bryce about Dave
Speaker 2: Foley's quote, it's always struck me that with regards to
Speaker 2: abductions and just actually the existence of alias, the idea
Speaker 2: that they would be here but maybe not abducting. I
Speaker 2: think it's a fear fantasy thing. I think the fantasy
Speaker 2: is we're not alone. There's an intelligent life out there,
Speaker 2: and if they haven't done an Independence Day on us,
Speaker 2: then maybe they're here to help us, and boy do
Speaker 2: we need help, right, So that's the fantasy. The fear is, oh, wait,
Speaker 2: they're going to hurt me. They're going to come into
Speaker 2: my home while I'm sleeping and they're gonna take me
Speaker 2: and they're going to do things to me. I don't
Speaker 2: like that part of it. I'm much more interested in
Speaker 2: the other part. So I think that's why a lot
Speaker 2: of people don't want to go there.
Speaker 1: Right now.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that's Dave Foley's opinion. I'm just saying
Speaker 2: I think when I've talked to people, abductions make people uncomfortable, right,
Speaker 2: and so that's the darker senior side of the phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Another thing that I think is fascinating is with regards
Speaker 2: to the why. The question becomes in my mind, there's
Speaker 2: eight billion humans on the planet and if your math
Speaker 2: is correct, and certainly I'm not going to challenge it,
Speaker 2: it could be millions of people who are experiencing this phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Are they all just making it up? And by the way,
Speaker 2: I would even say that could be a very concerns
Speaker 2: servative number because as we know, a lot of people
Speaker 2: aren't honest in a poll. A lot of people wouldn't
Speaker 2: even actually disclose in any shape or form because they
Speaker 2: can't even probably admit it to themselves that they had
Speaker 2: something traumatic happen. So if we're talking millions of people
Speaker 2: out there, are they all just hallucinating and they're all
Speaker 2: having a version of the same hallucination? Okay, if that's
Speaker 2: the case, can we examine that? Can we come up
Speaker 2: with a logical explanation for that?
Speaker 1: So, Dean, I'm going to put it to you. Then
Speaker 1: if Let's say that your number is a conservative number,
Speaker 1: in which case we pull vault to millions. But you
Speaker 1: said three points, say it's five. Whatever. What in the
Speaker 1: world would any nhi let alone maybe multiples want with
Speaker 1: that many people. When Betty and Barney first happened, I
Speaker 1: remember first hearing about it, and I believe my mother
Speaker 1: had read the Look or Life magazine excerpts Look Magazine,
Speaker 1: Look magazine, Excuse me, and we were talking about it
Speaker 1: and just saying, if they're really visitors from elsewhere, they're
Speaker 1: doing medical experiments because they want to understand the flora
Speaker 1: and the fauna kind of thing. But you don't do
Speaker 1: that with many millions of people. So what's your take.
Speaker 1: You've thought about this a long time. What do you
Speaker 1: think is going on?
Speaker 3: There were certain bumps for me that when I went
Speaker 3: into this, as I was mentioning before, with the first
Speaker 3: film that I did that just happened to be the
Speaker 3: found foot film that happened to be about aliens. That
Speaker 3: kind of got me indoctrinated into the phenomenon club, if
Speaker 3: you will.
Speaker 4: And so for the.
Speaker 3: Anniversary, went back to the convention that it was shown
Speaker 3: and believed to be real, and I went up and
Speaker 3: dig a Ted talk talking about how I felt like
Speaker 3: I was forced gumping all this. I'm not that clever, guys.
Speaker 3: It just happened, and I got dragged along with it.
Speaker 3: And so I started meeting people at a convention, my
Speaker 3: first UFO convention ever, and I started meeting highly credible
Speaker 3: people and academics.
Speaker 4: From Harvard, Carnegie, Mellon, Montana.
Speaker 3: Tech who were looking at this, maybe not saying they
Speaker 3: know everything that's going on. I don't think anyone really
Speaker 3: does to the length that we want, but they had
Speaker 3: hypothesis that seem to resonate and make sense. One of them,
Speaker 3: which we feature in the documentary is the extra Tempestrial
Speaker 3: hypothesis by doctor Michael la Masters, and his is that
Speaker 3: they're from the future. It's just one aspect that we
Speaker 3: look at. We look at everything. It's a menu where
Speaker 3: you can pick whatever you want. But I'm going to
Speaker 3: give you some options, and I'm going to give you
Speaker 3: a special to day if you're nice. And so basically
Speaker 3: what happens is you are looking at this and I
Speaker 3: go for me, because first and foremost, when you do
Speaker 3: these shows and everything, you have a list of things
Speaker 3: that you want to answer it's your curiosity. That's the
Speaker 3: reason why we're filmmakers is curiosity. And so I'm like,
Speaker 3: I need to know two things. I want to know
Speaker 3: why it's taking them so long to figure out the
Speaker 3: anatomy of a human? Why do they keep doing this?
Speaker 3: And then other things are little trivial things like what's
Speaker 3: with the quote unquote anal probe?
Speaker 4: What the hell is that about?
Speaker 3: And so when I got Michael Masters and he was
Speaker 3: talking about how being an anthropological biologist, he has studied
Speaker 3: animals and studied mankind from the earliest stages and project
Speaker 3: us out and he says, but it's not an anal probe,
Speaker 3: it's a stool sample.
Speaker 4: And I go, wait, what do you mean?
Speaker 3: He says, when we tag a bear, we don't give
Speaker 3: a laxative to a bear and wait around for it
Speaker 3: to evacuates bowels. We go in and we have a
Speaker 3: device that basically takes it in the shape it's in,
Speaker 3: because that's part of getting an accurate reading as well.
Speaker 4: And so that's what's probably going on.
Speaker 3: And then everything changes when you start getting into the
Speaker 3: hybrid program. Now we're looking at something that's just not
Speaker 3: doing a swing buy and taking samples and stuff. Now
Speaker 3: we're looking at something that literally is boy, there's no
Speaker 3: easy way to put this, but it's the hybridization of
Speaker 3: these beings, whether they're us, are there from another planet,
Speaker 3: or whatever, but it's merging this together for some operation.
Speaker 3: And so one of my questions to Michael was and
Speaker 3: I couldn't use in the documentary because his response was
Speaker 3: total Michael masters, which is I said, hey, how come
Speaker 3: there's no reptilian hybrids? Are mantis hybrids? No one talks
Speaker 3: about that? And he says, yes. That furthers my case
Speaker 3: that these gray aliens are us from the future. Because
Speaker 3: you can diddle a sheep all day long, you're not
Speaker 3: going to get a sheep man because and we can't
Speaker 3: mate with our primates that are chimpanzees and everything. So
Speaker 3: it's too big of an ass technology wise for us
Speaker 3: to be able to do that unless they have advanced
Speaker 3: technology where they.
Speaker 1: Can do that.
Speaker 4: But there's something going on.
Speaker 3: And so every time I've gone to an experience or
Speaker 3: support group, I ask Yvonne Smith, and I ask all
Speaker 3: of her experiences, why why are they doing this operation,
Speaker 3: this hybrid operation?
Speaker 4: What is it?
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 3: And she says, we don't know, we don't know if
Speaker 3: it's for them or for us, but she says, we
Speaker 3: suspect it's both of us, because you wouldn't be that
Speaker 3: committed to save some civilization that really doesn't affect you
Speaker 3: to that extent that this operation is. And so if
Speaker 3: it is, then from the future, and that makes sense
Speaker 3: because they're trying to save themselves.
Speaker 4: And then sorry, this is the long answer, guys. One
Speaker 4: last thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, whenever the experiencers talk about the two messages that
Speaker 3: they get, and we know we've heard these messages over
Speaker 3: and over again, they're always the same, which is your
Speaker 3: technology isn't helping you.
Speaker 4: Now, yes, it's.
Speaker 3: Got to be nuclear weapons, absolutely, but I think it's
Speaker 3: even more so these I think the smartphone and everything
Speaker 3: we're doing in AI that's coming that is not going
Speaker 3: to it seems helpful first, but it's not ultimately going
Speaker 3: to lead there. And so if that is a technology,
Speaker 3: so we have to put a pause on that.
Speaker 4: But the other thing they say is.
Speaker 3: You're screwing up your planet. And to prove this to you,
Speaker 3: we're going to show you a slide show. And in
Speaker 3: this slide show, you're going to see trees that have
Speaker 3: been scorched, You're going to see gray skies, You're going
Speaker 3: to see cities that have fallen to the wayside. And
Speaker 3: so my question is where is this footage coming from.
Speaker 3: Is this footage that they actually have acquired and are
Speaker 3: playing for us?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Ai? So?
Speaker 3: And then just to put a little tail on this thing,
Speaker 3: why are they showing this to us if we can't
Speaker 3: change the future. So this is letting this to me
Speaker 3: as they're saying, look, you can change this. This is
Speaker 3: where you're heading right now, but you can change this.
Speaker 3: So that's the most hopeful thing that I take out
Speaker 3: of that, glean out of that. And so then my
Speaker 3: question whenever I go to these convention stuff, as I say, guys,
Speaker 3: I think maybe what we need to do is we
Speaker 3: need to shift our focus that this isn't just a
Speaker 3: phenomenon for a two species meeting. This is a call
Speaker 3: to action, and so why don't we look at environmental
Speaker 3: issues and politicians that are leaning towards there because this
Speaker 3: is us, this is our planet.
Speaker 4: And that's sorry, I'm just going on and on.
Speaker 3: But lastly, when people think that technology is going to
Speaker 3: save our ass and we can go to another planet,
Speaker 3: we're not going to find another planet now, No, not
Speaker 3: like this.
Speaker 4: Where are we going to get it?
Speaker 3: Where our actual gravity is exactly the same, the days
Speaker 3: are the same, the hours of distance.
Speaker 4: It's too big an ask.
Speaker 1: Because we cover movies here, I couldn't. I can't let
Speaker 1: you say what you just said and not point out
Speaker 1: I wrote a movie called Official Denial that aired in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three that was all about UFOs and it
Speaker 1: was about them being us from the future. So I
Speaker 1: have to stay claim to at least thirty three years
Speaker 1: ago having stated that, and literally in that film, I
Speaker 1: have the alien in part through some kind of telepathic
Speaker 1: thing to a human exactly what you said. All this
Speaker 1: footage right the whole idea of the film at the
Speaker 1: end week because it was a time travel film at
Speaker 1: its heart, and there were many meetings with You can
Speaker 1: only imagine the meetings with executives going now, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: what And then finally one day it might have been me,
Speaker 1: it might have been an executive, but somebody just went
Speaker 1: the future is unwritten, and everybody went, oh, oh, that
Speaker 1: makes the movie makes sense, And we convinced ourselves that
Speaker 1: was the case, and that they were here because they
Speaker 1: needed to save themselves, and they in order to save themselves,
Speaker 1: they had to save us. And so I keep an
Speaker 1: open mind about that. But the time when I wrote that,
Speaker 1: to be completely honest to me, it wasn't out of
Speaker 1: conviction that this is what is going on. It was
Speaker 1: out of a conviction this is a good movie. This
Speaker 1: has a there's a twilight Zone twist for the final
Speaker 1: several minutes of the film kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I have two very important things to say, yes
Speaker 2: you do. The first is that if you listen to
Speaker 2: this show, you know I like finding strange connections. It's
Speaker 2: just one of my favorite things. And I there's a
Speaker 2: connection here that I want to surface. Dean in your
Speaker 2: movie The McPherson Tapes, and Bryce in your movie Official Denial.
Speaker 2: You guys both not you, but each of those movies
Speaker 2: used kids in costumes to be the aliens. And you
Speaker 2: know who else did Steven Spielberg in Close Encounters of
Speaker 2: the Third Kind.
Speaker 1: It's a new club.
Speaker 2: It's a new club, another one that I'm not included in.
Speaker 2: And by the way, what I think is most fascinating
Speaker 2: about that is that he has gone on record as
Speaker 2: saying that he made that choice specifically to represent aliens
Speaker 2: that were unfamiliar but non threatening.
Speaker 3: So yeah.
Speaker 4: And also they were androgynists. Yes, they're at a certain age.
Speaker 3: And I absolutely cop to the fact that I nick
Speaker 3: that I took it from Spielberg.
Speaker 4: It was like, that makes Yeah, why wouldn't you? Yeah,
Speaker 4: why mess with a formula that's worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, next super important thing that I want to say
Speaker 2: is just that I love as a writer contemplating this.
Speaker 2: It's us from the future idea, and in a weird way,
Speaker 2: that's the most comforting. Right, It's okay, you guys know
Speaker 2: a lot, come back and help us up, get us
Speaker 2: out of this mess. Right, you're invested in us.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: The one thing I will say, though, that complicates this
Speaker 2: is that, and I'm Dean, you know this is as
Speaker 2: well as we do, because we just did an episode
Speaker 2: about this, is that certain experiencers do not report seeing grays.
Speaker 2: It's not the grays who abducted them. And for instance,
Speaker 2: Travis Walton, even though in the movie it depicts grays
Speaker 2: or what looks like grays if I'm correct, he was
Speaker 2: abducted by Nordics or something that what he would describe
Speaker 2: as Nordics. And so this brings up the question mark
Speaker 2: for me, is it all true? Are there aliens from
Speaker 2: the future coming back that also have other aliens from
Speaker 2: other planets possibly and interdimensional entities? And basically, is the
Speaker 2: bar at tattooing right? What is going on here? There
Speaker 2: isn't a silver bullet solution to this in my mind,
Speaker 2: at least I haven't heard it yet.
Speaker 1: I'm because Dean, you brought us a clip that that's
Speaker 1: from your documentary that hasn't been seen before. So why
Speaker 1: don't you set that up? Let's play that and then
Speaker 1: let's talk about it.
Speaker 4: Did my lawyers agree to this? Shocking? Shocking?
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine it, but we're going to play it anyway.
Speaker 3: So, from what I understand in interviewing Travis, there were
Speaker 3: the Nordics, but the way the Nordics appeared was the
Speaker 3: second act for Travis's abduction. First there were the little guys,
Speaker 3: and then that's when, and then he talks about how,
Speaker 3: and we get into some of it, but.
Speaker 4: Not all the details.
Speaker 3: But as an example, he wakes up when we talk
Speaker 3: about that, he wakes up and he sees these beans
Speaker 3: and they're frustrated because they're trying to effectuate some form
Speaker 3: of mental telepathy. It's not working, and he he grabs
Speaker 3: these utensils that are next to the table and he
Speaker 3: gets off the table and he's swinging this around, threatening them,
Speaker 3: and these little guys take off and he describes him
Speaker 3: as being that, and then the Nordic guy comes in, Hey,
Speaker 3: he settled down. I'm just like you. But they're not vibing.
Speaker 3: And so that's a whole other thing. So when I
Speaker 3: go to interview Travis and again in the documentary, I
Speaker 3: wanted to do something that I saw firsthand with James
Speaker 3: Fox as I consulted on the phenomenon, And what James
Speaker 3: had done brilliantly was he showed the classic stories the
Speaker 3: history of UAPs, catching us up to date, and so
Speaker 3: I wanted to do the same thing. But I wanted
Speaker 3: to go back to these classic cases like Terry Lovelace
Speaker 3: as well, who's relatively new comparatively, and Deborah Jordan Cobble
Speaker 3: have her in there, and Barney and Betty Hill, but
Speaker 3: find new things, right. And one of the things I
Speaker 3: found was something that Travis just came out. I'm not
Speaker 3: sure even what the answer what the question was that
Speaker 3: I asked him, but I think what I said is
Speaker 3: I said a lot of these start early in childhood
Speaker 3: and then people forget about that, and then later on
Speaker 3: they're taken again. And he starts telling me, and this
Speaker 3: is twenty eighteen nineteen when I did this interview. He
Speaker 3: starts telling me about this experience that he had when
Speaker 3: he was a kid, and this is the clip.
Speaker 1: Let's see that.
Speaker 6: The being that came to me as a small child
Speaker 6: was dressed pretty much the same way that Betty Hill's
Speaker 6: beings were which occurred after that in terms of dates.
Speaker 6: So I couldn't have been inspired by her tales because
Speaker 6: as a matter of fact, I didn't even recognize this
Speaker 6: being as an alien. It was a little man, as
Speaker 6: the way I described it to my siblings, just a
Speaker 6: little man with a large head and big eyes. And
Speaker 6: to a little kid, an alien was like a purple
Speaker 6: people leader, you know, sort of a cartoon's character. Nobody
Speaker 6: described grays or use the term aliens. Were maybe a
Speaker 6: human looking being with antanna coming out of the top
Speaker 6: of their head. But this was a very real experience
Speaker 6: to me. I did my best to explain to my
Speaker 6: and convince my siblings that this really happened, and they
Speaker 6: remember that to this day. Fifty years later, but they
Speaker 6: still think maybe I had a dream. It's not a dream, Dean.
Speaker 1: That Wow, it blows my mind because I see why
Speaker 1: you didn't put it in though, because you're trying to
Speaker 1: talk to people about Travis and his woodcutter crew out
Speaker 1: there and he gets abducted in nineteen seventy five. But
Speaker 1: here he is saying, yeah, I saw these creatures back
Speaker 1: when I was a little kid, and suddenly now it
Speaker 1: asked us to draw some kind of connection between Travis
Speaker 1: as a kid and why this would happen in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy five. And I'm just kind of curious. You've been
Speaker 1: sitting with this for a while. A has he said this?
Speaker 1: I've not heard him say this before. Has he said
Speaker 1: it before? And what do you think about it? How
Speaker 1: did these things connect?
Speaker 3: He just recently talked about it and just very superficially
Speaker 3: like he remembers something happening there.
Speaker 4: But I had more of a bite here more.
Speaker 1: Thank you to it. Yeah, yeah, and thank your lawyers,
Speaker 1: by the way, thank them.
Speaker 3: I will, and I appreciate the hundred thousand in the brown.
Speaker 3: Yes it was more than a half, Thank you.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: Yes, it was an issue of whether I should put
Speaker 3: in there or not. And here's the thing each of
Speaker 3: these cases, especially Terry Lovelace, is when he talks about
Speaker 3: military being on craft, military officers in their twenties being
Speaker 3: on craft. I could do a documentary just on that alone.
Speaker 3: I have too much territory. And you'll see when you
Speaker 3: watch the documentary that we cover so much. And then
Speaker 3: we've got also amazing award winning animation that's being done
Speaker 3: to two by the way, is well, thank you, So
Speaker 3: it's you know, and I also had footage of Travis
Speaker 3: playing the guitar, and so it's really tough because you've
Speaker 3: got to kill your darlings, as they say. And so
Speaker 3: at some point I might do a compilation of like
Speaker 3: special bonus features. But anyway, it was something that again
Speaker 3: the point is that this is something that usually starts
Speaker 3: in childhood. I'll tell you something I haven't talked about before.
Speaker 3: This happened Sunday to me. We are coming back from
Speaker 3: Martha's vineyard and right after the Fourth of July holidays,
Speaker 3: and we've got this driver and he's driving, and the
Speaker 3: inevitable question comes up, what do you do? And so
Speaker 3: rather than say I create tiles for the shuttle, space shuttle,
Speaker 3: which sometimes goes well, sometimes doesn't. I said, I do documentaries,
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, what do you do documentaries about?
Speaker 4: And I'm with Ali, my girlfriend, and she comes out and.
Speaker 3: Says UFOs and he goes, oh really, and I'm going
Speaker 3: this guy's gonna pull over and go get the hell
Speaker 3: out when we have two more hours. And so he said,
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, and I look over at
Speaker 3: Ali and I'm like, oh, no way. And he says,
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, there was this figure, this
Speaker 3: small figure that would sit next to me at night,
Speaker 3: came and visited me a few times. I don't remember
Speaker 3: how many times, but it was blue and it's hue,
Speaker 3: and he was saying, Hey, don't worry about your friend
Speaker 3: this or that. He's only jealous or this or that.
Speaker 3: And he's literally at the time, maybe seven or eight
Speaker 3: years old. He tells his mother and his mom says,
Speaker 3: oh interesting, and then occasionally she will check in over
Speaker 3: the years, Hey did you ever see that guy again?
Speaker 3: So mom knows everyone else thought he was crazy. And
Speaker 3: he tells me, he says, I've never told anyone that before.
Speaker 3: He says, my mother is no longer alive with us.
Speaker 3: So she was the only person I ever told, but.
Speaker 4: He told me that.
Speaker 3: Now again, this is to your point, Brent, just imagine
Speaker 3: how many people are keeping this on the down low.
Speaker 3: I'm constantly shocked when I mentioned this and they go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I saw something. And the rub is the worst part
Speaker 3: of all of this is that I still have not
Speaker 3: seen a UFO. And I said to Yvonne Smith, I go,
Speaker 3: I've been working on these documentaries for nearly a decade now,
Speaker 3: and I've got one more after this, and I don't
Speaker 3: know if I think I'll go back to doing the
Speaker 3: independent films.
Speaker 4: I go, why is this happening?
Speaker 3: And I said, I've come through my pass I have
Speaker 3: no missing time that I'm aware of, and she laughed
Speaker 3: and looked at me like an idiot, which there's evidence
Speaker 3: to support that. And she said, Dean, they don't have
Speaker 3: to knock on your door to get to you, which
Speaker 3: was a whole new level of terrifying. But then I
Speaker 3: started going, maybe they're like the Muse, because the MEU
Speaker 3: for them, they've shown up time and time with you
Speaker 3: guys just as long, and so there's something going on
Speaker 3: where we're being part of the narrative. And again We're
Speaker 3: not saying that these creatures are from the future that
Speaker 3: could be intermentional.
Speaker 4: It's everything on the menu.
Speaker 3: But we keep finding that we're looking at all these
Speaker 3: different aspects and present it to the audience over decades.
Speaker 3: Why and so I'm still trying to answer. I don't
Speaker 3: know if you guys have an answer on that.
Speaker 2: So two things, and this is going to be my
Speaker 2: motif here. I'm gonna always have two things to mention.
Speaker 2: The first is that since we've been doing this show, Bryce,
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about it a little bit,
Speaker 2: but a lot of people have come forward, both online
Speaker 2: and in person. I got recognized a couple of times
Speaker 2: in airports you're that UFO guy, and they often say
Speaker 2: that exact line. I haven't told anyone else this, but
Speaker 2: I think that idea that if you put yourself out there,
Speaker 2: because not everyone believes I think some a decent portion
Speaker 2: of people, But when you start to have strange stories,
Speaker 2: people are going to ridicule you. You are vulnerable by
Speaker 2: opening yourself up in that way. And I think people
Speaker 2: who've had similar experiences, especially if they've sat on them
Speaker 2: until later in life and they never told anyone. It's
Speaker 2: a cathartic release. It's that finally being able to tell
Speaker 2: someone and feel like they're not going to be judged,
Speaker 2: I think is part of the phenomenon. And I think
Speaker 2: that's part of why what we're doing collectively by telling
Speaker 2: stories and trying to promote a dialogue, is the healthiest
Speaker 2: thing that we can do, because I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff that needs to come out, so to speak.
Speaker 2: The second thing I was going to say is, with
Speaker 2: regards to Travis and his story, I think what's fascinating
Speaker 2: is if you take it at face value and you say, no,
Speaker 2: this actually happened, and maybe he didn't talk about it before,
Speaker 2: but now he's talking about it, then it essentially invalidates
Speaker 2: the one critique of his case, which was that he
Speaker 2: had somehow been influencder He and his friends had been
Speaker 2: influen by the UFO incident, which was the TV movie
Speaker 2: about the Betty and Bardi Hill abduction, which had aliens
Speaker 2: that had wrap around eyes, which was a feature of
Speaker 2: what he talked about. And so there's this weird chicken
Speaker 2: in an egg aspect to not just Fire in the
Speaker 2: Sky and Travis, but all of these stories, and that's
Speaker 2: been one of the interesting ways that we've approached our
Speaker 2: podcast is not just is Hollywood under the influence in
Speaker 2: the way that we had first to hand experience from
Speaker 2: the government, but just Hollywood in general. What kind of
Speaker 2: influence does it have on the general population and of
Speaker 2: those potential millions of experiencers out there, how many of
Speaker 2: the details that they might recount, even if their circumstances
Speaker 2: were true, might be entangled from things that they'd seen
Speaker 2: over the decades in TV and movies. Right, it feels
Speaker 2: like it's all part of the collective consciousness. Like once
Speaker 2: it's put out there, whether it's a film or a
Speaker 2: television show or a story that someone's talking about with
Speaker 2: their own experiences, it's all entangled and it's all part
Speaker 2: of that palette that we all use and draw from
Speaker 2: to tell our own version of the story. Right, And
Speaker 2: at that point, maybe the details you're begging and borrowing
Speaker 2: and stealing from different things. The experience may have been
Speaker 2: absolutely real, but all of the details. It brings up
Speaker 2: that thing we've talked about before too, which is the
Speaker 2: Rashamon effect where people don't always remember all of the details,
Speaker 2: and the longer they go decades and decades and then
Speaker 2: try and recount their story. Who knows how much of
Speaker 2: that is objectively true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 3: Travis didn't even remember this at the time, didn't think
Speaker 3: about it for decades, and then he looked back and
Speaker 3: was like, oh, that was interesting, and then that connection happened. See,
Speaker 3: we want things that you bring up a really good point.
Speaker 3: We want things really clean. And Greg Bishop is the
Speaker 3: first one to tell me when I first started going
Speaker 3: down this rabbit hole, dude, be aware, this is not
Speaker 3: clean at all. It's messy as hell. And he says
Speaker 3: he doesn't like John Keel. He doesn't trust cases unless
Speaker 3: they have high strangeness, unless there's something weird, right, Yes,
Speaker 3: And so it's a detail that folds in and whether
Speaker 3: that's a screen memory of yeah, I member as a
Speaker 3: kid talking to an owl, then you realize I can't
Speaker 3: talk to an owl.
Speaker 4: And so it's strange in.
Speaker 3: That way because we do editorialize things a lot, and
Speaker 3: we also camparnamentalize things that don't become relevant till later
Speaker 3: and we go, oh, oh wow, so this was that,
Speaker 3: et cetera. And so I think that maybe that's a
Speaker 3: component of this.
Speaker 1: We've obviously told our story about what happened to us
Speaker 1: at Dark Skuys. Have you and your Hollywood rumblings and
Speaker 1: ramblings ever run across anyone else who has told a
Speaker 1: story about a government approach to them in any way?
Speaker 1: Have you heard that story? Has anyone ever talked to
Speaker 1: you personally about such a thing.
Speaker 4: Sorry, Stephen, they're asking me again, and I just don't
Speaker 4: wear me down.
Speaker 3: I'm not good at this man. You're better at this
Speaker 3: good cop, bad cop. I'm just going to tell them no, no,
Speaker 3: all right, I cannot have it happen yet. I'm looking
Speaker 3: forward to it, to be honest, because I've got a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of questions that I want to ask them
Speaker 3: and say, hold on, holdah, why does this matter to you?
Speaker 3: And there's people out here that will go nameless who
Speaker 3: talk about the threats that sometimes these these.
Speaker 4: Characters have made, and not to make light of it.
Speaker 3: But when I hear they came to me and they
Speaker 3: threatened me, I go, okay, that's because I worked on
Speaker 3: crime shows for fifteen years.
Speaker 4: They don't threaten you like that. They don't literally overtly
Speaker 4: say we will take you down.
Speaker 6: Nobody.
Speaker 4: It's not bad dialogue. It is Hey, it was really interesting.
Speaker 3: I saw that your daughter had a different lunchbox today
Speaker 3: then she had before, and there was a different route
Speaker 3: that they took to school.
Speaker 4: That's all that needs to be said.
Speaker 1: We were never threatened, but we did get that postcard
Speaker 1: while we were shooting the pilot that said we are
Speaker 1: watching you, which is it's not a threat, it's just
Speaker 1: but the observation feels unnerving to have somebody say they're
Speaker 1: watching us, So who wants that?
Speaker 4: I don't want anyone watching me.
Speaker 2: Although they did say that if we wanted to make
Speaker 2: the deal, we had to meet them in a cemetery
Speaker 2: at midnight, so again not a direct threat, but certainly
Speaker 2: not the warmest invitation you could.
Speaker 7: Be, Dean.
Speaker 1: If we don't get to this, we must go back
Speaker 1: to the beginning. Okay, you are the guy behind the
Speaker 1: McPherson tape. Okay, which was also it's so confusing to me.
Speaker 1: We met at a UFO conference where we were like
Speaker 1: sharing a table. My son was there and I think
Speaker 1: he was trying to put himself through college selling dark
Speaker 1: skies videos or something, and you guys were bonding, and
Speaker 1: you told us this story about the McPherson tape because
Speaker 1: you had some copies of it there, but it was
Speaker 1: also called the UFO Conductions, and then you were talking
Speaker 1: about how then you remade it for the CW. But also,
Speaker 1: as you said earlier on our show, that you had
Speaker 1: to admit that you had to go on national TV
Speaker 1: and explain it wasn't real because people were taking My
Speaker 1: mind is blown. I still today can't quite explain it all.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give you the floor here my
Speaker 1: friend tell us the story of the McPherson tape.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to cure the DVD commentary. Hold on
Speaker 3: one second, you.
Speaker 4: Have that, Nick, can you pull it out?
Speaker 3: It's really Again I mentioned that I feel like Forrest Gump.
Speaker 3: There was no genius behind this. It was just the circumstances. Again,
Speaker 3: I was training twenty five. All of my idols, including Spielberg,
Speaker 3: had made their first film by twenty five, so I
Speaker 3: had to do something. And a buddy of mindset I'll
Speaker 3: give you sixty five hundred bucks to make a movie,
Speaker 3: and I just read Communion. And on the side, I
Speaker 3: was filming with my buddy wedding videos and so I
Speaker 3: was used to the VHS formats and home video and
Speaker 3: I thought, oh, I also love war, the worlds?
Speaker 4: What if I do?
Speaker 3: Basically wore the worlds on videotape, and I ascribed to
Speaker 3: the letter of the law onto these the experiences of
Speaker 3: the family members and the creatures, what they look like
Speaker 3: and everything.
Speaker 4: And so I made this thing.
Speaker 3: We shot it in a day and a half, and
Speaker 3: then it became again.
Speaker 4: Like I said I thought it was.
Speaker 3: There was a There was actually a warehouse fire where
Speaker 3: I was told that my main master, all my artwork.
Speaker 4: Were gone, burned to the ground. History.
Speaker 3: And so five years later, I get a call from
Speaker 3: this guy. I'm not going to say his name because
Speaker 3: he's no longer with us, but Sean David Morton, and
Speaker 3: he was a character in this and he would talk
Speaker 3: about this, so that's why I mentioned him. But he said, look,
Speaker 3: I just came back from the International UFO Congress Convention.
Speaker 3: Here's what happened. Unsolved Mysteries hardcome being a show call
Speaker 3: Encounters on Fox. They want to do a story on this,
Speaker 3: they want to get this footage. And so I said, well,
Speaker 3: Unsolved Mysteries is out, and he actually said not necessarily.
Speaker 4: And I said, that's pretty sure.
Speaker 3: It's called unsolved, not Solve Mysteries, and he goes, okay,
Speaker 3: So I went on the Fox show Encounters and then
Speaker 3: that six and a half minute clip. Flash forward another
Speaker 3: few years later, I'm working on the Stephen J. Cannell
Speaker 3: crime series and the head writer, Paul Chitlick says, hey, man,
Speaker 3: I heard about this whole video craziness and I go yeah,
Speaker 3: and he says I want to see it, and I go, yeah, No,
Speaker 3: it's weird. It's handheld, and I'm trying to rip off
Speaker 3: Spielberg and Scorsese with each episode I do, and I
Speaker 3: don't want to show this handheld home video thing, and
Speaker 3: he tells me to shut up and show it to him.
Speaker 4: I show it to him.
Speaker 3: And then the next day he says, we have a
Speaker 3: meeting at Dick Clark Productions, and I think we can
Speaker 3: sell as a TV movie. And I said, all right,
Speaker 3: I want a story by credit. You can write this teleplay.
Speaker 3: I'll direct it you and I will produce it. Now
Speaker 3: go back to your office. So we go and we
Speaker 3: pitch it. We walk in there, we show them the
Speaker 3: six a half minute segment. The head of TV movie department,
Speaker 3: Dick Clark Neil Stearns, shakes her hand and says, we're
Speaker 3: going to take it. So that was my first Hollywood deal.
Speaker 3: I'm thirty two years old. It gives me great anxiety
Speaker 3: because I've been trying to be a filmmaker since I
Speaker 3: was a teenager, and all of a sudden things are
Speaker 3: going well. Doesn't make sense. It's as much a mindscrew
Speaker 3: as not getting what you want. And so flash forward
Speaker 3: a few months later and we're making it as UPN's
Speaker 3: flagship first TV movie. And so now the budget is
Speaker 3: we're shooting in Canada, so it's one point seven million.
Speaker 3: I can't spend that. We come in half a million
Speaker 3: hunder budget. We get the guys from the X Files
Speaker 3: do the ship in Aliens.
Speaker 4: This time it's called the McPherson tape.
Speaker 3: I picked McPherson because I had the word fear in it,
Speaker 3: and so I thought a nice little nod there for
Speaker 3: thriller purposes. And so we go, we shoot in a
Speaker 3: week instead of one night, and everyone gets fired at UPN.
Speaker 3: We come back, they fire us, They cut it down
Speaker 3: to an hour, They sacrifice it because they want to
Speaker 3: show that the regime before them, you guys have heard
Speaker 3: this before, didn't know what they were doing, and thank
Speaker 3: god they heard the save of the network. It gets
Speaker 3: in the highest ratings for a Tuesday prime time. They
Speaker 3: aired again after they put more footage in. A week later,
Speaker 3: it does even better, and they say that'll never be
Speaker 3: on this network again because they've got an egg on
Speaker 3: their face. And then a year and a half later,
Speaker 3: the Blair Witch Project comes out and now they're.
Speaker 4: Like, oh, now we get it. Then the internet hits.
Speaker 3: In fact, something that was what my old partner Paul
Speaker 3: mentioned is there was an online poll that was taken
Speaker 3: to say do you believe this tape is real or not?
Speaker 3: Forty nine percent Basically fifty percent thought that it was real,
Speaker 3: even after credits had said Alien one, two and three
Speaker 3: played piso ins. So that might taught me something. And
Speaker 3: then so for several years I had to go online
Speaker 3: and I had to again debunk and show pictures behind
Speaker 3: the scenes, look this isn't real as well. So I
Speaker 3: did do myself any favors by doing the remake, but
Speaker 3: that's so far been my foray into independent films in
Speaker 3: sci fi, and so then that led me ultimately to
Speaker 3: come back to my people, the UFO community in twenty
Speaker 3: eighteen and start research on these documentaries.
Speaker 1: That's quite a story. It's incredible.
Speaker 2: What I think is so interesting is that you made
Speaker 2: what I would have to say, it's a very difficult transition.
Speaker 2: You went from making something fictional that a lot of
Speaker 2: people believed, right, even if that was not your intention.
Speaker 2: The minute when people are told, oh, no, everything you believe, No,
Speaker 2: that's fake, that's Hollywood, the initial response is going to
Speaker 2: be one of defensiveness and anger. Who's this person that
Speaker 2: tried to fake everybody? Out?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: You made that transition into now a respected documentarian in
Speaker 2: the field actually bringing truth to the topic, And so
Speaker 2: I applaud you for that, because I just I know
Speaker 2: we're still stuck on the side of the fence where
Speaker 2: we've got at least one foot in the fictional camp
Speaker 2: and dipping a toe into the truth and the facts.
Speaker 2: But that's not an easy transition to make.
Speaker 3: No, And if I wasn't on record, and there wasn't
Speaker 3: footage of me debunking my own film, there would be
Speaker 3: an argument to say, this guy is full of it
Speaker 3: and he's at it again. But along the way, I've
Speaker 3: been transparent. In fact, I had myself in the documentary
Speaker 3: talking about the history of this. But Leslie Kane when
Speaker 3: I interviewed her, she said to me, she goes, as
Speaker 3: we're packing wrapping out of her apartment, she says, she goes, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're not gonna be in it, are You? And I
Speaker 3: have a history tied into this, So I was thinking, yeah,
Speaker 3: we'd do that. She goes, okay, and I'm like, why
Speaker 3: does she care if I'm in here or not? And
Speaker 3: then I go and I edit myself into him. I go,
Speaker 3: I'm not the story. Why do I need to be
Speaker 3: in here? I would rather hear the experiencers speak for
Speaker 3: themselves and have them state their case and then let
Speaker 3: the audience decide if they feel it's real or not
Speaker 3: without having to spoon feed it to them. They're much
Speaker 3: more intelligent than that. The confusion, and there's tons of
Speaker 3: it around this. To get back to your question, Bryce,
Speaker 3: the McPherson tape the title, So the remake was called
Speaker 3: the McPherson tape. That became the foreign version that still called,
Speaker 3: which was the ninety minute uncut version because I was
Speaker 3: sold to someone else, not upn so that stayed the same,
Speaker 3: but the domestic one was changed to the imaginative title
Speaker 3: Alien Abduction Incident in Lake County and so so.
Speaker 1: Three titles for this project.
Speaker 4: There's three titles.
Speaker 3: And then people the conspiracy mills started rolling around. They said,
Speaker 3: all right, so the alien Abduction Instant Lake County is
Speaker 3: actually based on a real movie called the McPherson Tape.
Speaker 3: And instead of putting it on that same movie, they said,
Speaker 3: there's an original version of alien Abduction. That one is
Speaker 3: called the McPherson Tape. So the original the OG nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty nine is now called the McPherson Tape. I don't
Speaker 3: fight it, I just go all right, just sure, yes.
Speaker 1: I just want to ask your opinion about something because
Speaker 1: it's very important in terms of the yin and the
Speaker 1: yang of what's real and what's not real. And that
Speaker 1: is in the late nineties, because you've had experience with
Speaker 1: the network system. Fox airs the alien autopsy right now.
Speaker 1: If there's ever been one where at first it's presented
Speaker 1: as real, then it's revealed as not real, but then
Speaker 1: people continue to say it's real, that would be that project.
Speaker 1: Do you know anything about can you bring our audience
Speaker 1: up to speed on that particular story and what your
Speaker 1: take on it is.
Speaker 3: I have two stories on this. So Bob Kivit, who
Speaker 3: is a producer. He's the one that produced the Encounter
Speaker 3: segment where I debunked with footage and stuff my own film.
Speaker 3: He called me a year or two after and said, hey,
Speaker 3: I got this footage of this autops and he describes
Speaker 3: it to me. And I said to him, can I
Speaker 3: swear on this podcast, by the way, yes, okay, yes,
Speaker 3: in fact, it's better to do, so please.
Speaker 4: Go okay, all right?
Speaker 3: And I think I get paid every time you guys
Speaker 3: get paid every time I swearword is dropped. So I said, yeah, Bob,
Speaker 3: sounds like bullshit to me, and Bob says, and he
Speaker 3: disagrees that he said this, but I remember it.
Speaker 4: It'ched to my brain. He said, yeah, you're probably right, but.
Speaker 3: I'm going to make a crapload of money from this,
Speaker 3: and he did. And so that was the truth.
Speaker 4: That was the fact. And so at that point.
Speaker 1: Hang, I want, let's be clear what we're talking about
Speaker 1: for people who are joining us. This is footage that
Speaker 1: is presented as the actual footage from the autopsy of
Speaker 1: an alien done from the Roswell wreckage. Correct. So in
Speaker 1: other words, we are watching when you watch this film,
Speaker 1: you are watching doctors in gowns and nurses and in
Speaker 1: a room cutting open an alien body. Is that correct?
Speaker 1: And did you think when you saw it did you
Speaker 1: think it looked realistic at all esthetically?
Speaker 3: No. First of all, if you're gonna have take, you're
Speaker 3: gonna take the time to set up lights and everything
Speaker 3: and to orchestrate this whole deal.
Speaker 4: You're gonna get your exposure right.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna make a grainy like it was copying JFK.
Speaker 4: Right, You're not gonna do that. You're gonna put it
Speaker 4: on a tripod.
Speaker 3: There was tons of examples in the past where they
Speaker 3: would be doing experiments and stuff, they put things on
Speaker 3: a tripod.
Speaker 4: They had the time to do that. It wasn't rushed.
Speaker 4: So that was two big flags.
Speaker 3: For me that it was trying to be too much
Speaker 3: cinema verite. We're gonna pop in and out of focus
Speaker 3: and everything. The other is that there's a new rumor
Speaker 3: that came out new Ish that this isn't the real footage,
Speaker 3: but it's based on real footage. And there's a couple
Speaker 3: shots where the leg is torn open where they dug
Speaker 3: into it in the autopsy, and some it's there it is.
Speaker 3: Those are probably outtakes, so they tried that version, didn't work.
Speaker 4: Whatever.
Speaker 3: It just goes on and on. But it's already been debunked,
Speaker 3: and I know there's going to be some listeners that
Speaker 3: will say, no, it's that's what they want you to
Speaker 3: think and everything. Again, I'm going to plead ignorance that
Speaker 3: I don't know everything, but based on the information that
Speaker 3: I've gotten and what I've looked at, and I've worked
Speaker 3: in this in a long field a long time, it
Speaker 3: doesn't pass muster.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to call BS on that.
Speaker 3: Another note, Two more things on this is Bob and
Speaker 3: I talked about doing the Alien Autopsy Part two, so
Speaker 3: I was going to direct that, but yeah, of course,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't going to be more fake footage. It
Speaker 3: was going to be doing a reenactment of what happened
Speaker 3: with the military, and we were going to see the
Speaker 3: crash disc happen and everything blah blah blah, which later
Speaker 3: on or I don't know when it happened before after,
Speaker 3: but you've got Unsolved Mysteries which handled it really well.
Speaker 4: So we were basically going to do the.
Speaker 3: Same thing that ended up not happening, and then from
Speaker 3: that flash forward, I'm going out now and this is
Speaker 3: ninety six, ninety seven, and we're pitching the alien abduction
Speaker 3: in St. Lake County, and we go and we pitch
Speaker 3: it to Fox, and we're pitching it to the same guy,
Speaker 3: Mike Darnell, who agreed, yeah, okay to green light Alien
Speaker 3: Autopsy a few years before then. And he says to
Speaker 3: Paul and I, he says, this is a type of
Speaker 3: project that people lose careers over. And so we spilled
Speaker 3: coffee on his bear rug, Polar bear rug, and we
Speaker 3: left well done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that was us that spilled the coffee, by
Speaker 4: the way.
Speaker 3: But anyway, so that's what I know about the alien
Speaker 3: Autopsy deal.
Speaker 1: Wow. Found footage, though, has made some better versions. Certainly
Speaker 1: Area fifty one is a found footage alien movie, but
Speaker 1: it's well done. It's actually rendered in all that. Do
Speaker 1: you have a favorite beside your own? Do you have
Speaker 1: a found footage alien film that you've enjoyed alien film?
Speaker 1: It's funny I alien found footage though, but in that Yeah.
Speaker 3: I recently did a zoom meeting with Eduardo Sanchez, who
Speaker 3: was one of the co creator of the Blair Witch project,
Speaker 3: and it was really funny because he thought that I
Speaker 3: was pissed off at him because he had seen my
Speaker 3: film and they did their own version, and I said, no,
Speaker 3: you can't copyright a style of filmmaking, a new narrative.
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be one of the first out of
Speaker 3: the gate to do it, but no, And so he was.
Speaker 4: He's a really nice guy. Anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple Canadian associates fans of my film. They
Speaker 3: were called the Vicious Brothers. They did a thing called Extraterrestrial.
Speaker 3: Yes and yeah, and in fact, one of the characters,
Speaker 3: I think the sheriff's name is McPherson, which was named
Speaker 3: after as an homage, which I thought was really nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there have been good films. Extraterrestrial has not found
Speaker 1: footage though, is it.
Speaker 4: It's no, it isn't.
Speaker 3: But they did one that was Encounters. Theirs was called Encounters.
Speaker 3: Thank you for correcting. Yet they worked in that space
Speaker 3: a lot. They're big fans of the genre. But anyway,
Speaker 3: and then I was trying to get work directed on
Speaker 3: Alias and JJ Abrams partner had seen on my reel
Speaker 3: because I sent it into him to get work directing,
Speaker 3: and that had clips of alien abduction into Lake County.
Speaker 3: And then a year later strange coincidence, Cloverfield comes out.
Speaker 3: Cloverfield is about a bunch of people getting together and
Speaker 3: then there's a blackout and you know the rest, and
Speaker 3: so it was very similar. And then when I saw
Speaker 3: the movie Signs, I started getting a lot of people
Speaker 3: telling me he ripped you off because it is a
Speaker 3: single parent with three kids out in the country. And
Speaker 3: there's even a shot by shot breakdown where you see
Speaker 3: an alien sneaking into the floor. And my thing again,
Speaker 3: if m Night shall mount ding Dong, if he happen
Speaker 3: to see that, then that's great. That's a nod to everyone.
Speaker 3: I don't think any of this is I don't want
Speaker 3: to imagine. Ay, this is intentional, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: I'm flattered at the best and worst case scenario.
Speaker 1: Well, we got a race for the exit here. But
Speaker 1: let me just ask you to speculate or to give
Speaker 1: us your thought on the essential situation here. As we've
Speaker 1: been doing sound, light and frequency, we're kind of asking
Speaker 1: a question, does the real thing that's happening, the phenomenon,
Speaker 1: find its way into Hollywood product or does Hollywood product
Speaker 1: influence people to describe their experiences through a lens that
Speaker 1: Hollywood has already given them. Do you see that's the
Speaker 1: whole chicken and egg thing that Brent was mentioning. Do
Speaker 1: you see that as an issue? Has it ever been
Speaker 1: an issue? Do you have an example of any of
Speaker 1: that or what is your take on that?
Speaker 3: My take is just I'll just cite you guys, Okay.
Speaker 3: I mean, you've been working in this for decades. What
Speaker 3: is it that brings it out in you? Science fiction
Speaker 3: is nothing but prophesizing what's to come?
Speaker 4: Good Lord, look at HG. Wells going a trip to
Speaker 4: the moon.
Speaker 3: He said there's gonna be a rocket and there's gonna
Speaker 3: be booster stages with it.
Speaker 1: How does he know that?
Speaker 4: And so that's just good.
Speaker 3: Sci fi writing. As a sci fi writer myself, I'm
Speaker 3: constantly thinking. At three am, usually the muse comes and
Speaker 3: does a swing by my on my ass and says, hey,
Speaker 3: what if?
Speaker 4: What if?
Speaker 3: And that sends us down this rabbit hole because we
Speaker 3: want to have it grounded, we go ahead and we
Speaker 3: do our homework and everything. So it ends up being
Speaker 3: confused if it's good with something that could be. And
Speaker 3: so I think that it's constantly something that as filmmakers,
Speaker 3: it's playtime. It's stuff that we can get into this,
Speaker 3: and that's my answer to that. But there's other influencers,
Speaker 3: influences that aren't Sci Fi related in this space that
Speaker 3: are dangerous and this needs to be said.
Speaker 4: JD Vance came out and said, these are demons.
Speaker 3: Now. I've talked to lou Elizondo and he said, hey,
Speaker 3: when I was briefing these generals, there was a small
Speaker 3: portion of them that would come up and say, hey,
Speaker 3: you're doing God's work, and another percentage smaller would come
Speaker 3: up and.
Speaker 4: Say, you do know their demons?
Speaker 3: Right, with no evidence to support that, they just felt that.
Speaker 3: So when JD says something like that, my ears prick
Speaker 3: up because I'm going, all right, what's with A the
Speaker 3: labeling and b how do we get to demons? Timber Chet,
Speaker 3: Congressman timber Chet took exception with this, and he said,
Speaker 3: I'm okay with Jesus, but why does a demon need
Speaker 3: a machine to get around? And So when I was
Speaker 3: speaking a couple of weeks ago at this art show
Speaker 3: that was all by experiencers, all the art was done
Speaker 3: by experiencers, I'm talking about this and I'm saying, if
Speaker 3: these guys like Brent you said this earlier, if they
Speaker 3: want to take us out, they would have.
Speaker 4: Already taken us out, no problem.
Speaker 3: And so I'm saying this and a couple other things,
Speaker 3: and I'm also talking about how I almost feel bad,
Speaker 3: like it almost brings me to tears when I think
Speaker 3: about these beings.
Speaker 4: That don't have art. And I asked experiences.
Speaker 3: I said, when's the last time you've been on the
Speaker 3: table and you look over at these concaved walls and
Speaker 3: you've seen an alien mona, Lisa, are you seeing the
Speaker 3: alien Last Supper? Or even five alien dogs sitting around
Speaker 3: a table playing poker.
Speaker 4: It doesn't exist. They don't have that. They don't have music.
Speaker 4: I can't imagine.
Speaker 3: It's taken me out right now if we don't have art,
Speaker 3: if I can't go to a concert and experience that.
Speaker 3: And so it turns out that Whitley Streeber was in
Speaker 3: the audience, and I thought, Oh, what's his take going
Speaker 3: to be on this, because he sees both sides, and
Speaker 3: Greg Bishop, who invited him, gives him the microphone and
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh God, okay.
Speaker 4: Here it goes.
Speaker 3: And I take up my iPhone and I'm videotaping it,
Speaker 3: and Whitley says this, He says regarding them.
Speaker 4: Eating us demons, that's what a demon does at each you.
Speaker 3: It tears your part of all the drawings and stuff
Speaker 3: have that, And they're always black, and they've got chicken
Speaker 3: feet or something.
Speaker 1: He says.
Speaker 3: If they wanted to eat us, we'd already been eight.
Speaker 3: So where's the evidence of this. Where's the villages that
Speaker 3: have been wiped out? They're not doing that, And so
Speaker 3: it's really I'm just going to use the s word silly.
Speaker 1: What about other people talk about there's people that have
Speaker 1: been picked up and mutilated? Do you buy any of that?
Speaker 4: I don't have any evidence.
Speaker 3: No one's come forward, The family hasn't said, hey, these
Speaker 3: are all stories hearsay. And so for me, again, give
Speaker 3: me the evidence and I'm on board. I'm an empirical,
Speaker 3: stupid thinking guy. Just make it simple for me.
Speaker 4: I've not seen that.
Speaker 3: And so what it does for the experience is because
Speaker 3: I'm going to be going to another experience of support
Speaker 3: group and I'm going to be addressing this very thing
Speaker 3: because I've been put in a position where I'm in
Speaker 3: a way representing a faction of the phenomenon here, and
Speaker 3: so i want to know exactly what the concerns are
Speaker 3: in my conversations over the phone and on zooms has
Speaker 3: been if they're associating these grays or any of these
Speaker 3: beings with demons, then by proxy or by being adjacent,
Speaker 3: what does that mean for us, these experiencers, because are
Speaker 3: they going to be in threat of this? And I
Speaker 3: note that Gary Nolan is working on coming up with
Speaker 3: a way of test to be able to identify someone
Speaker 3: who is an experiencer versus someone who isn't.
Speaker 4: So I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm projecting out to a nightmare of rounding up people.
Speaker 3: But it's a bigger conversation. But it's not good, it's
Speaker 3: not healthy, and it's propaganda. And these people and that's
Speaker 3: the reason why I made this duck. These people need
Speaker 3: empathy and understanding. And the best compliment that we've gotten
Speaker 3: on our film is they feel triggered.
Speaker 4: And at first I was concerned about that.
Speaker 3: I go, I don't want to trigger anyone, and they
Speaker 3: said no, it is so realistic, the portrayal and the
Speaker 3: way that it's done and left up to the audience.
Speaker 4: That was my experience. And the second thing.
Speaker 3: Is they feel heard, and I'm like, okay, and so
Speaker 3: Leslie Kane says, I'm working the space for the empathy
Speaker 3: of these people.
Speaker 4: The experiencers.
Speaker 3: Yes, So anyway, I feel like I'm being co opted,
Speaker 3: And if that's the reason, then so be it.
Speaker 2: I'm going to connect two more dots. Being true to
Speaker 2: myself here, just spent three dots, just one. No, I
Speaker 2: cannot do three, only two. So on this topic of
Speaker 2: experiencers having strange encounters with aliens, we've already talked about
Speaker 2: that there's different kinds out there. I think one of
Speaker 2: the fascinating things is that if you look at something
Speaker 2: that Ernie Klein said to us on our show. He
Speaker 2: talked about this idea that maybe writers are just remote viewing.
Speaker 2: They're seeing ideas unfold in the future. They're recording them.
Speaker 2: They're thinking it's their imagination, and they're put it down
Speaker 2: and lo and behold it becomes true. Right, you've all
Speaker 2: heard the story about the Star Trek communicator, right leading
Speaker 2: to someone came up with that idea. It goes into
Speaker 2: the media, and now it's inspiring scientists to go make it.
Speaker 2: So again, this is the whole chicken in the egg thing.
Speaker 2: But then the other aspect of this that I think
Speaker 2: is fascinating is a lot of people who've had encounters
Speaker 2: with UFOs, whether it was abductions or even just in
Speaker 2: the proximity of them, have reported what something that you
Speaker 2: talk about, Dean, in I believe alien perspective is downloads.
Speaker 2: That this is another when you say why are they here?
Speaker 2: Maybe they're doing things with us genetically, but they also
Speaker 2: seem to be, at least for some of us. You're
Speaker 2: getting a download, you're getting ideas. Some people are being
Speaker 2: blessed with huge upgrades in a new understanding of things
Speaker 2: that they had no idea about, whether it's math or
Speaker 2: science or languages or whatever. And by the way, this
Speaker 2: is a key component of just closure day, right, this
Speaker 2: idea of the downloads the upgrade of humanity. And so
Speaker 2: in that sense, maybe there is a very benevolent aspect
Speaker 2: to the visitations where maybe they are checking on us
Speaker 2: as a species, looking at our genetics in the same
Speaker 2: way that we do these this to animals right all
Speaker 2: over the planet without with almost always the intent of
Speaker 2: making sure that their species is okay, that it's going
Speaker 2: to survive. But at the same time they're also trying
Speaker 2: to lift us up. And certain people are that maybe
Speaker 2: are receptive to it. For whatever reason, are getting downloads,
Speaker 2: and if that's what's happening, then it's hard to see
Speaker 2: this as anything. The worst, it's neutral, right, but at
Speaker 2: the best, it's completely the opposite of demonic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, look, I don't agree that something like again,
Speaker 3: I'm going to call it a conspiracy that these beings,
Speaker 3: like there's tales of eating our soul and stuff.
Speaker 4: What does that even taste? Is it like chicken?
Speaker 3: Barbecue chicken? What tendory chicken? What kind of chicken we're
Speaker 3: talking about? It makes no sense. I'm my background, I
Speaker 3: used to do a lot of meditations, and I'm a.
Speaker 4: Very spiritual person.
Speaker 3: I do believe in reincarnation, as put forth in several
Speaker 3: great books, like Cornell professor doctor Brian Weiss, I believe
Speaker 3: that our souls are equal to any other sentient beings.
Speaker 3: It's not like on the other side wanted there's a
Speaker 3: hierarchy there. I believe that when we're here, because there
Speaker 3: is John Max is the dual alien identity, that some
Speaker 3: of the experiencers might have come from another planet or
Speaker 3: wherever these beans are coming from, and they've agreed to
Speaker 3: do this. Hence, when the experiencers say their first time
Speaker 3: early on, they say, have no right to do this,
Speaker 3: and these nhis say, yes, we do. And so I
Speaker 3: look at this and I go, Okay. I feel like
Speaker 3: there isn't something that is going to destroy us. I
Speaker 3: feel like ultimately everything came from somewhere, including the beans.
Speaker 4: The Vatican talks about.
Speaker 3: This, and so at the end of the day, I'm
Speaker 3: an optimist and at the end of the day love
Speaker 3: will always well out. And when I think of what's
Speaker 3: great about humanity, I don't think about all the bickering.
Speaker 3: I don't think about the greed, and I don't think
Speaker 3: about the insecurities that we have, which, by the way,
Speaker 3: if the Onanaki came and they've been genetically modifying us,
Speaker 3: can we breed that out? Because we can do that
Speaker 3: with dogs for centuries and be able to breed certain
Speaker 3: traits on can we breed those out? I feel like
Speaker 3: we are here to learn certain things. And so when
Speaker 3: people want full disclosure, I keep saying, we're not even
Speaker 3: a type one species yet, guys, and so we still
Speaker 3: have ways to go to meet halfway on the bridge,
Speaker 3: and so experiencers, and when I go to these conventions
Speaker 3: and conferences, I believe all these people can handle full
Speaker 3: on disclosure because they're already experiencing it. A lot of
Speaker 3: these are boots on the ground. It's just the rest
Speaker 3: of the planet, and it's the OLED's saying, we're only
Speaker 3: as strong as our weakest link. So there's some work
Speaker 3: that we have to do, but we're going to get there.
Speaker 3: That's the good news is we are going to get there.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. It's always fun to talk to you,
Speaker 1: my friend, and I guess you and I'll be seeing
Speaker 1: each other at the lunch club. And the only question
Speaker 1: I have is if Friedman's in town, what do you
Speaker 1: think you think? And you can.
Speaker 8: Freeman's in town as ask you try to do the
Speaker 8: secret handshake, and if he fumbles it and it just
Speaker 8: doesn't seem natural, then that's a pass.
Speaker 1: Listen, Thanks so much, good luck, And let's state this.
Speaker 1: The name of the documentary that you can get now
Speaker 1: on Amazon and Apple is The Experiencers Full Disclosure.
Speaker 4: Full Monty Disclosure, Yes, and the other two.
Speaker 3: And if people want to see the McPherson tape, that's
Speaker 3: also on Amazon, but they can get the Blu ray version,
Speaker 3: which is even better, and it's and it's the prices
Speaker 3: is very reasonable you can get all the behind the
Speaker 3: scenes stuff which is just crazy. I've got commentaries, everything else.
Speaker 3: And then the other two documentaries, The Alien Perspective Part
Speaker 3: one and two, also on Amazon and Apple.
Speaker 1: All Right, thanks so much, we'll see you again. We'll
Speaker 1: see it at lunch Club. Bye bye, thank you, Thanks guys.
Speaker 1: Sound Light and Frequency is an iHeart podcast produced by
Speaker 1: Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick Johnson and for
Speaker 1: Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was written by Anna
Speaker 1: Stumf and Hamilton Lighthouser. And your hosts and executive producers
Speaker 1: are Brice Abel, That's me and Brent Friedman. Watch the
Speaker 1: GUIs