WEBVTT - Lost and Found ET 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.440 You've probably heard of fight club. It's the place where 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:04.800 if you get in it, you can't talk about it. Well, 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.120 I'm not tough enough or quiet enough to even be 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.800 in that club, but I am part of a UFO 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.360 lunch club, and every so often a gang of us 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.320 who work in showbiz and we care about UFOs. We 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:17.919 all get together at a restaurant in the valley. We 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.400 engage in some championship dining, kick around what we're working on, 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.400 talk about what's new in the whole UAP world, that 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.400 kind of thing. It's great fun. The food is good, 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.600 but the company's better. And the current roster includes my 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.720 pals Andy Ceriano, Sylvan White, Dave Foley, all of whom 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.159 have Insane credits and are actively working in the business today. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.599 Today's guest on Sound, Light and Frequency is in that 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.720 club too. He's a filmmaker whose career feels almost genetically 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.040 engineered for our show. Dean Aliotto is the writer and 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.520 the director behind The McPherson Tape, the nineteen eighty nine 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.680 alien abduction film that helped invent the whole found footage genre, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.600 and right now he's got a new documentary out, The 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.160 ex Answers Full disclosure and it's a banger, man. I 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.640 gotta tell you we're gonna be talking about that and 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.200 a lot of other things. And he's bringing with him 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.120 an exclusive clip to the show from his interview with 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.240 Travis Walton. So that is worth waiting around for. But 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.000 before we bring Dean into the sound Light and Frequency Mothership, though, 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.360 let me just pull in my co host Brent Friedman. Brent, 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:21.920 are you there? 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:22.320 Hello? 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:23.920 Brent, there you are. 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:25.399 I'm just beamed down to earth. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.560 You just beamed in. Listen, I know you. Speaking of 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.080 being beamed, you were working your ass off on Call 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.480 of Duty this week. Thanks for making the time to 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.880 come on in. What's going on? What are you working on? 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.240 I think we joked about this on Jesse Michael's show 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.679 that the only thing that is going to be slower 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:49.680 drip disclosure than about UAP and aliens is call of duty. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.640 I absolutely cannot say anything. Oh excellent, I won't slow 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.680 drip that anymore. I'll tell you I got the opposite issue. 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.240 We are recording this right now a few days after 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.240 I just did an appearance on Coast to Coast AM 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.920 with George Nori, and that's the one where you go 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.160 on the air at midnight, or at least that's the 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.560 slot they'd always give me midnight till two am, which 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.519 means I end up caffeinating at eleven thirty at night 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.480 so that I can be alert for the show, and 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.400 then after the show, I can't sleep, so it's a 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.720 last day. But something interesting occurred to me though, Brent. Yeah, 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.720 because I've been doing Coast to Coast for a while. 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.720 I did an original Coast to Coast with Art Bell 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.240 back in ninety six. This is, of course, right when 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.840 Dark Skies was debuting, right, And what I thought was 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:44.040 so interesting about it is the appearance I did with 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.840 Art Bell was just a couple of weeks after jc 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:51.000 Krashtar party and a week after he brought his superior 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.919 officer out to the office. And yet if you listen 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.840 to the interview I did with Art Bell on Coast 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.839 to Coast, that never comes up. He wouldn't have thought 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.440 to ask about it, and even though I had just 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.400 lived through it, I didn't feel like talking about it. 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.919 I have a theory on that I'd love to hear 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:08.760 it at please. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.799 Because I actually don't remember us discussing or war gaming. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.880 What is Bryce going to say on art Bell Show. 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.639 My guess is that your instinct at that time was 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.480 similar to mine, And I'll call it the Strieber conundrum. Right, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.240 if you're a Hollywood writer of fiction and you start 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:29.799 talking about really strange true stories set in the UFO universe, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.720 people are just going to assume you're making everything up. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:38.600 And then you get into terms like, oh, he's an 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.520 inside man, he's part of the propaganda problem. Whatever the 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:47.160 case is, there's a credibility issue when people who work 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:51.880 in Hollywood start telling what they insist are true stories. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.360 And I think even to this day, it's very hard, 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.080 as I think our guests today will attest to stride 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.800 that bides the fence where you're working both in fiction 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:04.760 and in fact. 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.760 Yeah, that is all one hundred percent true, and I 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.240 think there's just only one other aspect of it. It 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.440 was so fresh in my mind what had just happened, 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.040 but I was so not clear in my mind as 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.200 to why it happened or how it happened. And we, 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.799 of course were in the middle of producing the show, 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.600 so there wasn't a lot of time to think about it, 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.200 And like you said, the last thing I thought I 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.200 should be doing is opening up that, because then people 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.520 are like, wait, people would have gotten it wrong. I 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.960 heard that they were working with the Office of Naval 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.200 Intelligence on their which was not true or anything like that. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.400 You do bring up an interesting point, which we're going 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.960 to be getting into with Dean in just a few minutes. 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.440 But this whole cover of fiction thing, which is what 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.520 Dark Skies was right. So you were saying the whole 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.320 conceit of the series, which was a dramatic piece of 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.640 fiction put on a television network, was that we were 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.880 telling the truth under the cover of fiction. And I 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.320 think what Dean will tell us is his own little 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.440 brush with that, which I find equally fascinating. Yeah. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.240 Absolutely, I can't wait to discuss it. 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:13.919 What else is on your mind these days? Are you 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.840 getting people talking to you at all about Disclosure Day? 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.640 If you heard any reaction to that. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.880 The most common reaction I've heard is people who have 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:29.360 seen it were a little confused or disappointed. Their expectations 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.000 were off, and they went back to see it another 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.040 time or two, and each time they saw it they 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.120 enjoyed it more. And I think that seems to be 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.359 the kind of parabola that most people are having with 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:40.679 this disclosure day. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:42.920 I did enjoy it more, but seeing it twice now, 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.839 the second time I enjoyed it more. I think just 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.520 because I was ready to just give in to the 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.560 experience and see if I could pick up some of 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.080 the details. It's still not a perfect film, but it's 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.720 a good film, and it's about something that I love 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.880 to talk about, so what's not to like. Okay, enough 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:59.600 of all this. We're going to take a short break 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.840 here with which allows our friends at iHeart to keep 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.840 the lights on and the MIC's hot for us, and 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.320 then we'll be back with the Dean of the Ufology, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:20.240 Dean Alioto stand by. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.120 I'm Brent Friedman. Years ago, a family friend who became 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.440 a cabinet member in the Reagan administration disclosed to me 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.520 that aliens are real. They're here, and he'd seen them. 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.040 I'm Bryce is Abel. Later, when we were producing Dark Skies, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.320 an NBCTV series about an alien invasion, we were approached 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.160 by men who said they were from the Office of 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.680 Naval Intelligence and they wanted to give us inside information 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.239 in exchange for access to our show. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.839 We didn't take that deal, but we have never stopped 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:57.600 thinking about it. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.480 That's why we do this podcast. We're working out ideas 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:06.000 in real time about how Hollywood is portrayed aliens and why. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.520 Every episode is different because there are so many questions. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:14.040 We're looking for answers. It's an active investigation. Let's do 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:45.000 this together. Dean. I want to welcome you to the show. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:46.920 You're not only in the club, but now you're on 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.720 the sound, light and frequency club. So thanks for being here. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:56.400 Sorry one second, Steven, right now, and I will get 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.640 to it. You did not get read in. 0:07:58.920 --> 0:07:59.400 I get that. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.240 I'm going to be telling them I got your back, brother. Okay, 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:04.440 Now I'm gonna unmute. 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:09.559 Okay, by I love it. Okay, listen, if in fact 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.920 you can pick up the phone and call mister Spielberg, 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.520 please invite him on the show. Listen, this is an issue. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.720 We might as well just talk about it. It's interesting 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.240 because Brent has had that experience with Toby Hooper, and 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.360 I know you heard the essence of that story, and 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.560 yet you don't think there's any evidence I gathered that 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.120 Steven Spielberg ever got read into anything. Is that pretty 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:31.280 much accurate? Yea. 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.600 The first thing, the first rule of Fight Club you're 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.720 going to call back for me is not to talk 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:38.199 about it. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:39.400 It's that I don't know anything. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.760 So with that in mind, the only thing I do 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.320 know is that I have this on the back of 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:50.920 my phone, which is Mayflower and in the movie Close Encounters, 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:51.760 I'm a total geek. 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:52.960 Close Encounters a third kind. 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:58.600 That was a program that Lacombe fon TUFO was heading out. 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.880 And what I did in preper for this is I 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.280 read every single thing I can get my hand on 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:04.320 online offline. 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.240 I read diaries. I read Spielberg's book which might have 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:09.760 been written by him. The adaptation. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.960 Tarantino seems to think he had a ghost writer, possibly, 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.600 which was done a lot back then, and looking at 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.880 it and reverse engineering and looking at all the drafts, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.240 we've got basically Paul Schrader, who does the first draft. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.160 He's the one that introduces the spirituality aspect of it, 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.920 so everyone is contributing to this. He did read, obviously 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.959 Heineck's work, because that's where he got the title, and 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.880 I think it cost him ten or twenty thousand that 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:40.200 he was to donate to Heinick's organization and brought him 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:40.720 on set. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:41.880 There's a little bit of. 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:47.000 A time bend with regards to was Jacques flat influenced 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.640 was an influence for the character Lacom or did that 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.400 character already exist because there are some drafts where time 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.839 wise there's maybe a discrepancy there. So when I look 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.319 at all of what was available then at the time, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.200 and I look at allultimately what the message is the 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.280 only thing that is a slight bump. But again, this 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.800 was written. There were conspiracies way back when, and some 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.320 of it's born out not to be conspiracies, like Lockheed Martin. 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.800 The fact they had boxes there is kind of like, 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:19.040 uh okay, because that factor is heavy into the partitioning 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.800 out the technology to independent companies so that the government 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:23.920 doesn't have to disclose. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:24.160 Right. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.560 The thing that's interesting is that, and this is the 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.199 only thing that gave me pause, is that. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.240 Brent got the first hand. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.240 And so now that's jacked up my whole big thing 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.560 because I as an independent filmmaker, my job. Half my 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.360 job is looking for funding and any check that I've 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.559 ever gotten for from the government has bounced. I'm always 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.679 looking for financing sources. No one's come to me, and 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.720 I've been at this since nineteen eighty nine. So the 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.000 one thing I know about Toby Hooper is when he 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.800 did the movie Poltergeist, he was working off Spielberg's storyboards 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.880 a lot of it, and I think John Lenette was 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:03.560 the and John said there was like phone Core, which 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.760 is sheet would but made out of foam, and it 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.560 would have all the storyboards. So the look of that 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:13.280 Toby Hooper version of Poltergeist is a Spielberg movie. Those 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.120 shots I know as a director, I've studied, reverse engineered 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.520 all that, so not that was kind of hidden, but 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.920 I know that there is some overlap there. So what 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:27.679 does that mean back to the first Fichael, I don't know. 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.840 And so I'm confused by this, Brent. It's throwing a 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.600 wrench into it that Toby would say that, because a 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:35.640 lot of times people say stuff based on their belief. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.040 But did Spielberg actually say yes, I was reading, and 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:41.200 you're not supposed to say that. 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.280 So Brent, you should probably tell Discatch people real quickly 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.760 if they're joining us in progress, what it was that 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.120 Toby Hooper told you. And by the way, before you 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.640 do that, even John Leonetti, does that ring a bell 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:53.840 for you? It does? 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.600 Yes, in fact, yeah, he John Lenetti was promoted to 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:03.800 director of the infamous Mortal Kombat Annihilation movie that Bryce 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.240 and I wrote, and I should have asked John when 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:11.040 I had access to him about his Poltergeist experience. That 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.080 sounds interesting, although I have heard those rumors as well. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.280 It doesn't sound like rumors though, so really quickly, I 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.120 think context is important to the conversation that I had 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:25.040 with Toby Hooper preceded Bryce and I being offered a 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.520 deal with the Office of Naval Intelligence because we were 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.160 still scouting the pilot. And yeah, I was with Toby 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.719 Hooper and the right after doing a scout up in 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:39.360 New Hall Ranch. And what happened was we were sitting 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.400 in a roadhouse having lunch together. Well, everyone else in 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.480 the scouting team was off talking about logistics and actually working, 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.120 and Toby and I were just shooting the breeze. And 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.600 I said to him, knowing that he had what he 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.800 had told me was a competitive, friendly, competitive relationship with Steven, 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.640 I said, you're finally going to have something over on Stephen. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.040 And he's like, what's that? And I said, you're going 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.520 to be the first one to put a crop circle 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.439 on film. He hasn't done that. And he said, I'm 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.040 never going to be ahead of Stephen in this category 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.040 and I was like, what do you mean, and he said, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.679 after Jaws, he was approached by some intelligence people, I 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.280 think naval intelligence, and he was so successful they offered 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.800 him a deal to get information for influence and he 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.800 took it. And Close Encounters is apparently based on a 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.560 true story or some true story elements, and same with 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:35.840 ET and I was taken aback by that. This is 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.640 completely shocking to me. And then the only thing that 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.800 surpassed that shock was when you and I got offered 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.960 a deal by naval intelligence. The whole thing just seemed 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.960 incredibly strange and prophetic. I will say this just add 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.560 one more log to the fire. Here we have an 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.280 upcoming episode where someone else heard the same story that 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.120 I did from Toby Hooper. Interesting. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.040 Yeah, And by the way, Brent Janori, one of the 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.040 first questions he asked me was about that. And I 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.920 attempted to do an impression of you doing an impression 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.280 of Toby Hooper, and I had to abandon that because 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.520 I wasn't very good at it. But it is interesting 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.960 to hear that story, Dean. It doesn't really matter the 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.920 truth of it is almost everything that's in there. He 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.800 could have also gotten out of the context of books 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:23.120 and the people he talked to. 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.040 I would imagine, Yeah, it's interesting because you have to 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.360 hold both in the hand, and it's like the scales, 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.320 which one is coming up or down. When I look 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.160 at ET, I know because I'm a total geek azoid 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.240 that Et was based on a first draft of this 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:40.920 script that he was doing, which was going to be 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.200 about the was it not the Kenningberg The. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.120 Story in nineteen was nineteen fifties. 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.520 Yeah, Kentucky, I think, yes, thank you, where the family 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.120 gets assaulted, and so he was going to do this 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.240 because it was interested in that. The thing with Stephen 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.400 is that he's got Stephen mister Spielberg, is that he's 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.560 got this side to him because he was a prankster 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.520 when he was kid, and he loves horror stories and 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.320 so hence Poltergeist. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:04.640 Which he co wrote. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.720 And so if I think Steve calling. 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.480 There, he doesn't like this, he doesn't like where this 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.160 conversation is, You're going to have. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.120 To just tell him that we are busy talking about him. 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:18.520 That was my ring tone for Steven. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.200 So what happens is is that you have someone who 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.160 who in this case is I reverse engineer this, so 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.080 I go, Okay. Spielberg, when he was going to do 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.440 Twilight Zone the movie, he was going to do one 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.040 called Trick or Treat, and in this episode it was 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.160 going to be that these kids are coming and there's 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.040 this grumpy old guy and trick or treat put a 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.600 stone in our rock in the bag and stuff and 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.840 instigate this. And so these tricker treaters would come and 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.160 he goes to open the door to trick them or whatever, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.320 and the masks that they're wearing aren't masks and they're actually. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.320 These brilliant fun but it's a little too dark. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:56.960 So he ends up doing Kick the Can, which was 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.640 a remake of the classic episode. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.800 So Spielberg has that sideer's got that edge. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.960 So he was going to do this story and the 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.520 family being attacked, but he found this one character in 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.960 the script that he really enjoyed, and so he took 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.200 that character and made him into the movie. Et and 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.840 so ET wasn't written by Spielberg. It was inspired, but 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.640 Melissa Matheson correct wrote. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.120 It ready Harrison Ford at the time. 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.760 I'm yes, and no relation to Richard Matheson, But so 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:32.520 I don't see anything in that is extra sauce in 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.560 the phenomenon, So I'm kind of going, Okay, where's that, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.680 And then we can talk about Disclosure Day again, not 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.400 too much that we haven't already seen. It's good for 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.520 the public to kind of catch up because like the 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.360 word experiencer is mentioned twice twenty minutes in and sixty 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.600 three minutes in the first time in a Hollywood film. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:49.320 Thank you Steve much. 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.640 But at the same time, I'm listening to this podcast 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:58.120 called What Went Wrong, and it's about making movies, and 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:02.760 they covered Independence Day and Independence Day. They wanted to 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.400 work with the military because it would get all these 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.200 free props and everything, and the military had a list 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.360 of things. They first of all, felt like the military 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.440 guys weren't taken too serious in the fact that Will 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.200 Smith's character was engaged to a stripper. 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.359 They didn't come into that. Didn't like it. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.159 And one of the things that they had, among other things, 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.959 was the Area fifty one. They said, you can't do that, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.280 you can't have that in here. We're tired of being 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.440 hassled about Area fifty one. Please remove that whole nonsense, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.639 they said, right, quote unquote. That was the final straw 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.960 that broke the camel's back, and Dean Devlin, who was 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:39.359 the co. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:40.960 Writer another great beam. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:46.760 Yeah yeah with Roland Emrick said go f yourself. We're 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.879 gonna go ahead and do this. However, when Transformers came around, 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:53.560 they went all right, let's give them full on and 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.639 let's cooperate and everything. So, like anything in this field, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.000 some of it's true, some of its shade of true, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:01.119 and some of it's not. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.240 So listen, we should let's talk about your movie forget. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.359 I don't know who this Spielberg guy is that he 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.479 should command so much of our attention. It is interesting 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.080 that you point out he uses the word experience or 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.280 twice in the film and what he is in essence saying, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:21.640 besides just giving the word a different value, he's saying, hey, folks, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.800 in addition to all the stuff about lights in the 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.639 sky and orbs and things like that, there's this whole 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.720 thing that we've swept under the rug in polite conversation, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.320 even in eufology, which is people that have experienced things. Now, Brent, 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.199 you're an experiencer yourself, maybe not of the type in 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.800 Dean's new movie, which is called I Believe the Experiencers 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:44.840 Full disclosure. 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.520 Correct, Yes, half disclosure was taken, so I had to 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:49.440 go full disclosure. 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.040 I listen. I guess my question is do you think 0:18:55.080 --> 0:19:00.439 that your film is breaking ground or are you reaching 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.159 a different audience. I think I'm asking rather than the 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.720 people like Brent and I and people who listen to 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:11.560 us often know abductees and experiencers. They know UFOs and UAP, 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.240 we know the terminology things like that. But were you 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.960 reaching past those of us in the sort of the 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.000 euthological movement to a larger audience. 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:28.119 Well, the challenge of representing anything in this field, and 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:34.000 that goes with podcasters or radio hosts filmmakers, is you're 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:38.520 serving two masters. You're serving the UFO community, which knows 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.240 pretty much everything under the sun with regards to what 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.679 the latest and greatest is right, and so they're always 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.240 clamoring for it, give me ne mic drops, and so 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:47.960 you got to service them, and you have to give 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:52.439 them mic drops. Then the bigger audience is the general public, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.560 which you're doing two things. One is you're saying, hey, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.360 catch up, there's a lot that's been going on since 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.399 I'm sure the last time that you've checked in here, 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.680 And the other is aspect is to inspire them, and 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.800 so if you're UFO curious, this should hopefully get you 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.160 to say, Okay, hold on, what's going on here? Maybe 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.040 I'm going to investigate a little bit more. I'm going 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.360 to look more into this. And so for me, that 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.840 was the main audience because there's the echo chamber effect 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.280 that we have. But I wanted to do something because 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.800 I was on Richard Dolan show and I only mentioned 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.960 that guy because I've never heard of this Richard Dole 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.359 ever heard of again you just call him RD because 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.520 he said this is so weird because there hasn't been 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:39.800 a documentary with about experiencers in years, and it used 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.439 to be The Dajure, definitely with John Mack in the 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.119 mid to late nineties. And so I looked at it 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.800 and again I didn't intend on doing any of this, guys, 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.320 because of my film, the McPherson tape. I went for 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.560 the twenty fifth anniversary. I went back to the same 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.600 UFO convention where it was shown without my knowledge, without 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.160 the credits as the real McCoy, which Lieutenant Colonel Don 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.120 Ware came out and said this is real, et cetera. 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.040 And I had to go that forced. 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.440 Me to go on national TV to debunk my own movie, 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.240 because I don't need UFO researchers having to take on 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:14.680 any more crap that's out there. 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:19.080 I hold that thought for a second, though, because let's 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.760 finish up experiences and then pull vault back in time 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:27.760 to the We've actually got a clip of your new documentary, 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:29.520 which I think would be great if we could just 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:31.480 play it now, and then we'll come back and we'll 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:33.359 talk a little bit more. So let's take a lore 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:33.720 for that. 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:41.160 You will not be anxious or distract I can remember everything, 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.160 and you will tell me everything. 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:47.959 I just thought it was a dream, didn't really think 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:48.560 anything of it. 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:53.560 But apparently it's not common to have identical dreams with siblings. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.040 They took us and they hurt us. 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.920 It's not easy to talk about. That was the greatest 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:10.479 fear I've ever experienced. What do you remember from that 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:15.520 moment on? When I regained consciousness, I didn't know where 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:16.000 I was. 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:17.439 I felt like I was dying. 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.560 There's something profoundly important going on here. 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.399 I've never seen anything like this before. 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.719 I find them compelling and I find them believable. 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.879 They seem to pick people who are particularly strong, stable, 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:35.880 open minded. 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:37.120 I'm an experiencer. 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.120 I'm an experiencer, I had experiences. 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.280 What has happened to these people is what they say 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.680 has happened to them, even though I fully recognize that 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.240 that's not possible in the worldview in which they and 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:52.240 I were raised. 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:58.240 For a long time, I was very dismissive of abductees, 0:22:58.359 --> 0:22:58.960 which is. 0:22:58.920 --> 0:22:59.640 A weird thing. 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.960 Do not believe when I believe UFOs appealed. We don't 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:06.480 know what happened to us, and it goes beyond what 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:08.080 we know or don't know about them. 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:10.399 Yeah, I think we have a even stretched a surface 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.920 in all science fiction of what aliens could be. 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.000 Like, it's theater, What have any blinking lights? 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:17.520 That's the show. 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:25.879 That's the show. Why are these alien beings abducting people? 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:29.399 It wants to be seen. It wants us to be 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:30.000 aware of it. 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.479 UFOs and aliens or they may be be us in 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.600 the future. 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:42.040 Time travel or the interdimensional. 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.479 Watching, lurking stalking. 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:46.119 Be very simple to eliminate us. 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.600 The entire universe has some kind of intelligence to it. 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:55.119 What can we learn through the lens of science and 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.880 then all the mysteries that surround it. 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:02.880 He says, you don't have any reasons to see your praise. 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:05.320 You. 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.960 Well, that certainly got my attention. I just wanted to 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.440 say a shout out to Dave Foley, who's in there, 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:20.080 who's part of the Lunch Club by the way, But 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.320 also because he said something that I think has been 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:26.359 hanging around this subject for so long, and it's the 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:30.399 simplest thing around, which is he was always skeptical of 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:35.439 people that said they'd been abducted or now experiencers, and 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.560 yet he believed in UFOs. I think that is one 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.960 of the cleanest issues that's out there, and I think 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:45.560 that's really what your documentary addresses for people. It says, 0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.760 forget about the lights for a second, let's talk about 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:49.760 the rest of it. 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:53.240 Yeah. One of the things that I've been saying there could. 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:55.920 Be like a jump cuts or super cuts of it, 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.560 is the hearings have been focusing on the elephant's tail, 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:02.200 but no one's talking about the elephant in the room. 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:05.640 And we're there now because we can only talk about 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:08.000 nuts and bolts for so long, which is important, not 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.359 saying it isn't, but at some point we have to 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:14.640 talk about why these nhis non human intelligent beings are 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:16.000 doing swing buys. 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:16.800 On our planet. 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:19.760 Maybe it's for in and out burger, but you can 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:21.120 only hit that a few times and you. 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:23.919 Go, y, it's I got it. It's good. Maybe I'll 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:25.119 get animal style next time. 0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:29.320 So it's really more of we need to ask why 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:32.119 they're swinging by here, what's going on, and we need 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:35.040 to look at certain data points. We keep pointing it 0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:36.919 to data when it comes to the nuts and bolts. 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.720 But as an example, in nineteen ninety two, there was 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:43.320 a roper pole which was taken and they asked five 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:47.200 different questions in their poll to determine if people might 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:51.040 have been taken based on certain things, whether it's sleep 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:53.560 paralysis with something in the room, missing time, et cetera. 0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:59.120 They found one in fifty showed more than one displayed 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.000 or acknowledged more than one of these things. If I 0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:04.960 take that and I add that and do math, which 0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:07.639 hurts my brain, Believe me, I don't want to do it. 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:09.000 But it came out to three. 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:12.880 Point seven million people on the planet that possibly could 0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:16.480 be experiencers to that degree. And so even if you 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:19.280 shave off two thirds of that, you're still looking at 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.639 over a million people over the years. And so that 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:27.200 and along with the other belief that the experiencers are done, 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:32.040 that they're no longer being abducted, that people aren't being taken. 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:35.240 You'll see in this documentary we've got two young sisters 0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:37.400 where it's still going. 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:38.360 On, folks. Yeah. 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:39.360 Yeah. 0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:42.840 Circling back to the point you made Bryce about Dave 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:48.119 Foley's quote, it's always struck me that with regards to 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:52.080 abductions and just actually the existence of alias, the idea 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:54.960 that they would be here but maybe not abducting. I 0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:57.679 think it's a fear fantasy thing. I think the fantasy 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.600 is we're not alone. There's an intelligent life out there, 0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:02.760 and if they haven't done an Independence Day on us, 0:27:03.040 --> 0:27:04.879 then maybe they're here to help us, and boy do 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:09.240 we need help, right, So that's the fantasy. The fear is, oh, wait, 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.480 they're going to hurt me. They're going to come into 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:13.159 my home while I'm sleeping and they're gonna take me 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:14.600 and they're going to do things to me. I don't 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:16.480 like that part of it. I'm much more interested in 0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:18.640 the other part. So I think that's why a lot 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:20.359 of people don't want to go there. 0:27:20.800 --> 0:27:21.840 Right now. 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.160 I'm not saying that's Dave Foley's opinion. I'm just saying 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:28.720 I think when I've talked to people, abductions make people uncomfortable, right, 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:32.440 and so that's the darker senior side of the phenomenon. 0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:37.320 Another thing that I think is fascinating is with regards 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:41.920 to the why. The question becomes in my mind, there's 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:46.560 eight billion humans on the planet and if your math 0:27:46.640 --> 0:27:49.040 is correct, and certainly I'm not going to challenge it, 0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:53.480 it could be millions of people who are experiencing this phenomenon. 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:57.720 Are they all just making it up? And by the way, 0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:00.000 I would even say that could be a very concerns 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.160 servative number because as we know, a lot of people 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:04.719 aren't honest in a poll. A lot of people wouldn't 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:08.399 even actually disclose in any shape or form because they 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.800 can't even probably admit it to themselves that they had 0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:15.159 something traumatic happen. So if we're talking millions of people 0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:18.080 out there, are they all just hallucinating and they're all 0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:22.600 having a version of the same hallucination? Okay, if that's 0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:25.000 the case, can we examine that? Can we come up 0:28:25.040 --> 0:28:26.600 with a logical explanation for that? 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:30.000 So, Dean, I'm going to put it to you. Then 0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:33.600 if Let's say that your number is a conservative number, 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:36.199 in which case we pull vault to millions. But you 0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:40.440 said three points, say it's five. Whatever. What in the 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:46.640 world would any nhi let alone maybe multiples want with 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:49.920 that many people. When Betty and Barney first happened, I 0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:53.280 remember first hearing about it, and I believe my mother 0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:57.120 had read the Look or Life magazine excerpts Look Magazine, 0:28:57.520 --> 0:29:00.440 Look magazine, Excuse me, and we were talking about it 0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:03.440 and just saying, if they're really visitors from elsewhere, they're 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:07.080 doing medical experiments because they want to understand the flora 0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:09.000 and the fauna kind of thing. But you don't do 0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:12.280 that with many millions of people. So what's your take. 0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:14.160 You've thought about this a long time. What do you 0:29:14.160 --> 0:29:14.880 think is going on? 0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:21.200 There were certain bumps for me that when I went 0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:25.600 into this, as I was mentioning before, with the first 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:28.240 film that I did that just happened to be the 0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:31.280 found foot film that happened to be about aliens. That 0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:35.240 kind of got me indoctrinated into the phenomenon club, if 0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:35.600 you will. 0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:36.360 And so for the. 0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:40.160 Anniversary, went back to the convention that it was shown 0:29:40.280 --> 0:29:42.280 and believed to be real, and I went up and 0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:44.840 dig a Ted talk talking about how I felt like 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:48.560 I was forced gumping all this. I'm not that clever, guys. 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:51.520 It just happened, and I got dragged along with it. 0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:56.160 And so I started meeting people at a convention, my 0:29:56.160 --> 0:30:00.440 first UFO convention ever, and I started meeting highly credible 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:02.640 people and academics. 0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:05.560 From Harvard, Carnegie, Mellon, Montana. 0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:08.000 Tech who were looking at this, maybe not saying they 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:10.760 know everything that's going on. I don't think anyone really 0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:13.880 does to the length that we want, but they had 0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:18.320 hypothesis that seem to resonate and make sense. One of them, 0:30:18.520 --> 0:30:21.760 which we feature in the documentary is the extra Tempestrial 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:26.560 hypothesis by doctor Michael la Masters, and his is that 0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:28.280 they're from the future. It's just one aspect that we 0:30:28.280 --> 0:30:30.440 look at. We look at everything. It's a menu where 0:30:30.480 --> 0:30:32.120 you can pick whatever you want. But I'm going to 0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:33.600 give you some options, and I'm going to give you 0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:37.400 a special to day if you're nice. And so basically 0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.520 what happens is you are looking at this and I 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:43.800 go for me, because first and foremost, when you do 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:45.880 these shows and everything, you have a list of things 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:48.200 that you want to answer it's your curiosity. That's the 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:51.960 reason why we're filmmakers is curiosity. And so I'm like, 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.960 I need to know two things. I want to know 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:57.120 why it's taking them so long to figure out the 0:30:57.160 --> 0:30:59.360 anatomy of a human? Why do they keep doing this? 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:03.000 And then other things are little trivial things like what's 0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:04.880 with the quote unquote anal probe? 0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:07.200 What the hell is that about? 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.800 And so when I got Michael Masters and he was 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:15.120 talking about how being an anthropological biologist, he has studied 0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:18.080 animals and studied mankind from the earliest stages and project 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:20.640 us out and he says, but it's not an anal probe, 0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:23.040 it's a stool sample. 0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:25.600 And I go, wait, what do you mean? 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:27.920 He says, when we tag a bear, we don't give 0:31:28.000 --> 0:31:30.520 a laxative to a bear and wait around for it 0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:34.400 to evacuates bowels. We go in and we have a 0:31:34.440 --> 0:31:36.680 device that basically takes it in the shape it's in, 0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:39.760 because that's part of getting an accurate reading as well. 0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:42.400 And so that's what's probably going on. 0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:47.320 And then everything changes when you start getting into the 0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:51.200 hybrid program. Now we're looking at something that's just not 0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:54.440 doing a swing buy and taking samples and stuff. Now 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:59.959 we're looking at something that literally is boy, there's no 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.040 easy way to put this, but it's the hybridization of 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:06.280 these beings, whether they're us, are there from another planet, 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:09.800 or whatever, but it's merging this together for some operation. 0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:13.680 And so one of my questions to Michael was and 0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:16.840 I couldn't use in the documentary because his response was 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:20.320 total Michael masters, which is I said, hey, how come 0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:25.080 there's no reptilian hybrids? Are mantis hybrids? No one talks 0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:28.920 about that? And he says, yes. That furthers my case 0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:32.200 that these gray aliens are us from the future. Because 0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:36.040 you can diddle a sheep all day long, you're not 0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:39.520 going to get a sheep man because and we can't 0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.720 mate with our primates that are chimpanzees and everything. So 0:32:43.760 --> 0:32:46.400 it's too big of an ass technology wise for us 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:48.400 to be able to do that unless they have advanced 0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:49.440 technology where they. 0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:49.760 Can do that. 0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:51.560 But there's something going on. 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:53.920 And so every time I've gone to an experience or 0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:57.560 support group, I ask Yvonne Smith, and I ask all 0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:02.920 of her experiences, why why are they doing this operation, 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:04.720 this hybrid operation? 0:33:04.880 --> 0:33:05.800 What is it? 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:06.520 What is it? 0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:10.360 And she says, we don't know, we don't know if 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:14.640 it's for them or for us, but she says, we 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.920 suspect it's both of us, because you wouldn't be that 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:22.000 committed to save some civilization that really doesn't affect you 0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:26.440 to that extent that this operation is. And so if 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:28.040 it is, then from the future, and that makes sense 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:29.600 because they're trying to save themselves. 0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:31.920 And then sorry, this is the long answer, guys. One 0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:32.520 last thing. 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:37.560 Yeah, whenever the experiencers talk about the two messages that 0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:39.880 they get, and we know we've heard these messages over 0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:42.640 and over again, they're always the same, which is your 0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:43.960 technology isn't helping you. 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:46.320 Now, yes, it's. 0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:50.160 Got to be nuclear weapons, absolutely, but I think it's 0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:54.680 even more so these I think the smartphone and everything 0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:57.520 we're doing in AI that's coming that is not going 0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:00.160 to it seems helpful first, but it's not ultimately going 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:02.840 to lead there. And so if that is a technology, 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:05.040 so we have to put a pause on that. 0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:06.360 But the other thing they say is. 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:10.239 You're screwing up your planet. And to prove this to you, 0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:12.920 we're going to show you a slide show. And in 0:34:12.920 --> 0:34:15.920 this slide show, you're going to see trees that have 0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:18.600 been scorched, You're going to see gray skies, You're going 0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:21.400 to see cities that have fallen to the wayside. And 0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:27.920 so my question is where is this footage coming from. 0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:32.759 Is this footage that they actually have acquired and are 0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:33.640 playing for us? 0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:34.000 Is it? 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:35.600 Ai? So? 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:39.279 And then just to put a little tail on this thing, 0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:43.560 why are they showing this to us if we can't 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:49.040 change the future. So this is letting this to me 0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:51.160 as they're saying, look, you can change this. This is 0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:53.080 where you're heading right now, but you can change this. 0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:56.399 So that's the most hopeful thing that I take out 0:34:56.400 --> 0:34:59.319 of that, glean out of that. And so then my 0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:02.160 question whenever I go to these convention stuff, as I say, guys, 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:03.600 I think maybe what we need to do is we 0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:05.560 need to shift our focus that this isn't just a 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:08.799 phenomenon for a two species meeting. This is a call 0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:12.880 to action, and so why don't we look at environmental 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:16.279 issues and politicians that are leaning towards there because this 0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:17.800 is us, this is our planet. 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:19.520 And that's sorry, I'm just going on and on. 0:35:19.560 --> 0:35:21.600 But lastly, when people think that technology is going to 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:23.200 save our ass and we can go to another planet, 0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:25.960 we're not going to find another planet now, No, not 0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:26.520 like this. 0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:27.759 Where are we going to get it? 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:30.560 Where our actual gravity is exactly the same, the days 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:32.080 are the same, the hours of distance. 0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:33.200 It's too big an ask. 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:37.319 Because we cover movies here, I couldn't. I can't let 0:35:37.320 --> 0:35:39.399 you say what you just said and not point out 0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:42.560 I wrote a movie called Official Denial that aired in 0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:47.440 nineteen ninety three that was all about UFOs and it 0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:50.239 was about them being us from the future. So I 0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:53.240 have to stay claim to at least thirty three years 0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:58.040 ago having stated that, and literally in that film, I 0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:01.759 have the alien in part through some kind of telepathic 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:04.440 thing to a human exactly what you said. All this 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:08.200 footage right the whole idea of the film at the 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.440 end week because it was a time travel film at 0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:13.080 its heart, and there were many meetings with You can 0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:16.520 only imagine the meetings with executives going now, wait a minute, 0:36:17.239 --> 0:36:19.759 what And then finally one day it might have been me, 0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:21.839 it might have been an executive, but somebody just went 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:25.560 the future is unwritten, and everybody went, oh, oh, that 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:28.880 makes the movie makes sense, And we convinced ourselves that 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:31.520 was the case, and that they were here because they 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:36.000 needed to save themselves, and they in order to save themselves, 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.080 they had to save us. And so I keep an 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:41.359 open mind about that. But the time when I wrote that, 0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:45.160 to be completely honest to me, it wasn't out of 0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:48.120 conviction that this is what is going on. It was 0:36:48.200 --> 0:36:51.239 out of a conviction this is a good movie. This 0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:54.400 has a there's a twilight Zone twist for the final 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:56.920 several minutes of the film kind of thing. 0:36:57.040 --> 0:36:59.680 Anyway, I have two very important things to say, yes 0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:02.640 you do. The first is that if you listen to 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:05.759 this show, you know I like finding strange connections. It's 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:08.319 just one of my favorite things. And I there's a 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:12.680 connection here that I want to surface. Dean in your 0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:16.480 movie The McPherson Tapes, and Bryce in your movie Official Denial. 0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:20.320 You guys both not you, but each of those movies 0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:24.759 used kids in costumes to be the aliens. And you 0:37:24.760 --> 0:37:28.000 know who else did Steven Spielberg in Close Encounters of 0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:28.720 the Third Kind. 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:30.240 It's a new club. 0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:33.000 It's a new club, another one that I'm not included in. 0:37:33.320 --> 0:37:35.600 And by the way, what I think is most fascinating 0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:37.799 about that is that he has gone on record as 0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:41.600 saying that he made that choice specifically to represent aliens 0:37:41.600 --> 0:37:44.040 that were unfamiliar but non threatening. 0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:45.480 So yeah. 0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:48.920 And also they were androgynists. Yes, they're at a certain age. 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:52.120 And I absolutely cop to the fact that I nick 0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:53.759 that I took it from Spielberg. 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:57.040 It was like, that makes Yeah, why wouldn't you? Yeah, 0:37:57.040 --> 0:37:58.719 why mess with a formula that's worse. 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:02.120 Yeah, next super important thing that I want to say 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:05.640 is just that I love as a writer contemplating this. 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:08.640 It's us from the future idea, and in a weird way, 0:38:08.680 --> 0:38:11.239 that's the most comforting. Right, It's okay, you guys know 0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:13.560 a lot, come back and help us up, get us 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:15.799 out of this mess. Right, you're invested in us. 0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:16.040 Right. 0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:19.040 The one thing I will say, though, that complicates this 0:38:19.760 --> 0:38:22.759 is that, and I'm Dean, you know this is as 0:38:22.760 --> 0:38:24.640 well as we do, because we just did an episode 0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:29.920 about this, is that certain experiencers do not report seeing grays. 0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:32.840 It's not the grays who abducted them. And for instance, 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:36.400 Travis Walton, even though in the movie it depicts grays 0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:39.520 or what looks like grays if I'm correct, he was 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:42.840 abducted by Nordics or something that what he would describe 0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:46.959 as Nordics. And so this brings up the question mark 0:38:47.000 --> 0:38:50.319 for me, is it all true? Are there aliens from 0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:55.239 the future coming back that also have other aliens from 0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:59.880 other planets possibly and interdimensional entities? And basically, is the 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:04.120 bar at tattooing right? What is going on here? There 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:06.879 isn't a silver bullet solution to this in my mind, 0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:09.799 at least I haven't heard it yet. 0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:13.879 I'm because Dean, you brought us a clip that that's 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:17.560 from your documentary that hasn't been seen before. So why 0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:19.719 don't you set that up? Let's play that and then 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:21.040 let's talk about it. 0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:26.800 Did my lawyers agree to this? Shocking? Shocking? 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:29.440 Yeah, imagine it, but we're going to play it anyway. 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:33.640 So, from what I understand in interviewing Travis, there were 0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:37.200 the Nordics, but the way the Nordics appeared was the 0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:41.960 second act for Travis's abduction. First there were the little guys, 0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:44.840 and then that's when, and then he talks about how, 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:47.759 and we get into some of it, but. 0:39:47.840 --> 0:39:49.719 Not all the details. 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:52.319 But as an example, he wakes up when we talk 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:54.320 about that, he wakes up and he sees these beans 0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:57.600 and they're frustrated because they're trying to effectuate some form 0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:00.920 of mental telepathy. It's not working, and he he grabs 0:40:01.160 --> 0:40:02.920 these utensils that are next to the table and he 0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:07.200 gets off the table and he's swinging this around, threatening them, 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:09.880 and these little guys take off and he describes him 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:12.960 as being that, and then the Nordic guy comes in, Hey, 0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:16.200 he settled down. I'm just like you. But they're not vibing. 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:19.319 And so that's a whole other thing. So when I 0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:23.160 go to interview Travis and again in the documentary, I 0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:26.160 wanted to do something that I saw firsthand with James 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:29.560 Fox as I consulted on the phenomenon, And what James 0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:33.279 had done brilliantly was he showed the classic stories the 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:37.719 history of UAPs, catching us up to date, and so 0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:39.480 I wanted to do the same thing. But I wanted 0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:42.920 to go back to these classic cases like Terry Lovelace 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:46.840 as well, who's relatively new comparatively, and Deborah Jordan Cobble 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:49.040 have her in there, and Barney and Betty Hill, but 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:53.000 find new things, right. And one of the things I 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:57.279 found was something that Travis just came out. I'm not 0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:59.279 sure even what the answer what the question was that 0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:02.520 I asked him, but I think what I said is 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:05.520 I said a lot of these start early in childhood 0:41:06.680 --> 0:41:09.680 and then people forget about that, and then later on 0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:13.839 they're taken again. And he starts telling me, and this 0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:17.520 is twenty eighteen nineteen when I did this interview. He 0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:21.120 starts telling me about this experience that he had when 0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:23.680 he was a kid, and this is the clip. 0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:24.759 Let's see that. 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:28.240 The being that came to me as a small child 0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:33.840 was dressed pretty much the same way that Betty Hill's 0:41:34.239 --> 0:41:39.800 beings were which occurred after that in terms of dates. 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:43.280 So I couldn't have been inspired by her tales because 0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:47.040 as a matter of fact, I didn't even recognize this 0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:49.759 being as an alien. It was a little man, as 0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:53.440 the way I described it to my siblings, just a 0:41:53.480 --> 0:41:57.240 little man with a large head and big eyes. And 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:00.760 to a little kid, an alien was like a purple 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:05.320 people leader, you know, sort of a cartoon's character. Nobody 0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:12.680 described grays or use the term aliens. Were maybe a 0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:15.719 human looking being with antanna coming out of the top 0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:19.320 of their head. But this was a very real experience 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:22.400 to me. I did my best to explain to my 0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:26.319 and convince my siblings that this really happened, and they 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:31.840 remember that to this day. Fifty years later, but they 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:39.560 still think maybe I had a dream. It's not a dream, Dean. 0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:42.839 That Wow, it blows my mind because I see why 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:45.680 you didn't put it in though, because you're trying to 0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:50.600 talk to people about Travis and his woodcutter crew out 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:54.239 there and he gets abducted in nineteen seventy five. But 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:57.600 here he is saying, yeah, I saw these creatures back 0:42:57.600 --> 0:43:00.560 when I was a little kid, and suddenly now it 0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:05.880 asked us to draw some kind of connection between Travis 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:08.840 as a kid and why this would happen in nineteen 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:11.200 seventy five. And I'm just kind of curious. You've been 0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:13.759 sitting with this for a while. A has he said this? 0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:16.799 I've not heard him say this before. Has he said 0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:19.160 it before? And what do you think about it? How 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:20.600 did these things connect? 0:43:20.800 --> 0:43:24.680 He just recently talked about it and just very superficially 0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:27.120 like he remembers something happening there. 0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:29.560 But I had more of a bite here more. 0:43:29.520 --> 0:43:32.760 Thank you to it. Yeah, yeah, and thank your lawyers, 0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:33.640 by the way, thank them. 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:36.080 I will, and I appreciate the hundred thousand in the brown. 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:38.160 Yes it was more than a half, Thank you. 0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:38.719 It was. 0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:42.359 Yes, it was an issue of whether I should put 0:43:42.400 --> 0:43:43.920 in there or not. And here's the thing each of 0:43:43.960 --> 0:43:47.960 these cases, especially Terry Lovelace, is when he talks about 0:43:48.719 --> 0:43:52.160 military being on craft, military officers in their twenties being 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:55.280 on craft. I could do a documentary just on that alone. 0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:57.200 I have too much territory. And you'll see when you 0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:00.600 watch the documentary that we cover so much. And then 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:04.959 we've got also amazing award winning animation that's being done 0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:09.000 to two by the way, is well, thank you, So 0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:11.080 it's you know, and I also had footage of Travis 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:15.399 playing the guitar, and so it's really tough because you've 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.840 got to kill your darlings, as they say. And so 0:44:17.920 --> 0:44:20.880 at some point I might do a compilation of like 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:25.200 special bonus features. But anyway, it was something that again 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:28.360 the point is that this is something that usually starts 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:31.880 in childhood. I'll tell you something I haven't talked about before. 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:37.000 This happened Sunday to me. We are coming back from 0:44:37.000 --> 0:44:41.560 Martha's vineyard and right after the Fourth of July holidays, 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:44.319 and we've got this driver and he's driving, and the 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:47.160 inevitable question comes up, what do you do? And so 0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:52.320 rather than say I create tiles for the shuttle, space shuttle, 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.160 which sometimes goes well, sometimes doesn't. I said, I do documentaries, 0:44:56.200 --> 0:44:57.800 and it's like, oh, what do you do documentaries about? 0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:00.840 And I'm with Ali, my girlfriend, and she comes out and. 0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:04.200 Says UFOs and he goes, oh really, and I'm going 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:06.439 this guy's gonna pull over and go get the hell 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:10.400 out when we have two more hours. And so he said, 0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:13.560 when I was a kid, and I look over at 0:45:13.600 --> 0:45:16.000 Ali and I'm like, oh, no way. And he says, 0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:19.000 when I was a kid, there was this figure, this 0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:21.719 small figure that would sit next to me at night, 0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:25.160 came and visited me a few times. I don't remember 0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:29.120 how many times, but it was blue and it's hue, 0:45:29.680 --> 0:45:34.040 and he was saying, Hey, don't worry about your friend 0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:37.200 this or that. He's only jealous or this or that. 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:40.239 And he's literally at the time, maybe seven or eight 0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:45.360 years old. He tells his mother and his mom says, 0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:49.560 oh interesting, and then occasionally she will check in over 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:51.920 the years, Hey did you ever see that guy again? 0:45:53.360 --> 0:45:56.960 So mom knows everyone else thought he was crazy. And 0:45:57.000 --> 0:46:00.760 he tells me, he says, I've never told anyone that before. 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:04.799 He says, my mother is no longer alive with us. 0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:07.359 So she was the only person I ever told, but. 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:08.200 He told me that. 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:13.040 Now again, this is to your point, Brent, just imagine 0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:16.719 how many people are keeping this on the down low. 0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:19.399 I'm constantly shocked when I mentioned this and they go, oh, yeah, 0:46:19.440 --> 0:46:22.800 I saw something. And the rub is the worst part 0:46:22.840 --> 0:46:24.920 of all of this is that I still have not 0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:27.960 seen a UFO. And I said to Yvonne Smith, I go, 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:31.560 I've been working on these documentaries for nearly a decade now, 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:33.360 and I've got one more after this, and I don't 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:34.920 know if I think I'll go back to doing the 0:46:34.920 --> 0:46:35.720 independent films. 0:46:36.200 --> 0:46:37.840 I go, why is this happening? 0:46:38.600 --> 0:46:40.480 And I said, I've come through my pass I have 0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:43.240 no missing time that I'm aware of, and she laughed 0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:46.200 and looked at me like an idiot, which there's evidence 0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:50.040 to support that. And she said, Dean, they don't have 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:54.280 to knock on your door to get to you, which 0:46:54.360 --> 0:46:56.600 was a whole new level of terrifying. But then I 0:46:56.600 --> 0:46:59.920 started going, maybe they're like the Muse, because the MEU 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:02.319 for them, they've shown up time and time with you 0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:06.279 guys just as long, and so there's something going on 0:47:06.320 --> 0:47:10.200 where we're being part of the narrative. And again We're 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:13.239 not saying that these creatures are from the future that 0:47:13.320 --> 0:47:14.120 could be intermentional. 0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:15.160 It's everything on the menu. 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:18.719 But we keep finding that we're looking at all these 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:22.160 different aspects and present it to the audience over decades. 0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:25.440 Why and so I'm still trying to answer. I don't 0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:26.719 know if you guys have an answer on that. 0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:29.680 So two things, and this is going to be my 0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:31.919 motif here. I'm gonna always have two things to mention. 0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:36.000 The first is that since we've been doing this show, Bryce, 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:37.480 you and I have talked about it a little bit, 0:47:37.520 --> 0:47:40.320 but a lot of people have come forward, both online 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:43.279 and in person. I got recognized a couple of times 0:47:43.320 --> 0:47:47.720 in airports you're that UFO guy, and they often say 0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:50.440 that exact line. I haven't told anyone else this, but 0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:54.040 I think that idea that if you put yourself out there, 0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:58.360 because not everyone believes I think some a decent portion 0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:01.520 of people, But when you start to have strange stories, 0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:05.000 people are going to ridicule you. You are vulnerable by 0:48:05.080 --> 0:48:08.240 opening yourself up in that way. And I think people 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:11.279 who've had similar experiences, especially if they've sat on them 0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:14.680 until later in life and they never told anyone. It's 0:48:14.719 --> 0:48:17.680 a cathartic release. It's that finally being able to tell 0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:19.880 someone and feel like they're not going to be judged, 0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:23.319 I think is part of the phenomenon. And I think 0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:26.760 that's part of why what we're doing collectively by telling 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:30.440 stories and trying to promote a dialogue, is the healthiest 0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:32.560 thing that we can do, because I think there's a 0:48:32.600 --> 0:48:35.040 lot of stuff that needs to come out, so to speak. 0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:38.239 The second thing I was going to say is, with 0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:42.000 regards to Travis and his story, I think what's fascinating 0:48:42.080 --> 0:48:44.400 is if you take it at face value and you say, no, 0:48:44.760 --> 0:48:47.600 this actually happened, and maybe he didn't talk about it before, 0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:51.720 but now he's talking about it, then it essentially invalidates 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:56.279 the one critique of his case, which was that he 0:48:56.400 --> 0:48:59.600 had somehow been influencder He and his friends had been 0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:03.040 influen by the UFO incident, which was the TV movie 0:49:03.080 --> 0:49:06.600 about the Betty and Bardi Hill abduction, which had aliens 0:49:06.640 --> 0:49:09.279 that had wrap around eyes, which was a feature of 0:49:09.320 --> 0:49:13.080 what he talked about. And so there's this weird chicken 0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:16.960 in an egg aspect to not just Fire in the 0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:20.520 Sky and Travis, but all of these stories, and that's 0:49:20.560 --> 0:49:23.920 been one of the interesting ways that we've approached our 0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:29.400 podcast is not just is Hollywood under the influence in 0:49:29.440 --> 0:49:32.120 the way that we had first to hand experience from 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:35.719 the government, but just Hollywood in general. What kind of 0:49:35.840 --> 0:49:40.200 influence does it have on the general population and of 0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:44.480 those potential millions of experiencers out there, how many of 0:49:44.520 --> 0:49:48.840 the details that they might recount, even if their circumstances 0:49:48.880 --> 0:49:52.680 were true, might be entangled from things that they'd seen 0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:56.000 over the decades in TV and movies. Right, it feels 0:49:56.040 --> 0:49:58.600 like it's all part of the collective consciousness. Like once 0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:01.160 it's put out there, whether it's a film or a 0:50:01.200 --> 0:50:04.000 television show or a story that someone's talking about with 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:07.399 their own experiences, it's all entangled and it's all part 0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:09.960 of that palette that we all use and draw from 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:12.600 to tell our own version of the story. Right, And 0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:16.840 at that point, maybe the details you're begging and borrowing 0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:20.640 and stealing from different things. The experience may have been 0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:24.279 absolutely real, but all of the details. It brings up 0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:26.320 that thing we've talked about before too, which is the 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:30.840 Rashamon effect where people don't always remember all of the details, 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:34.680 and the longer they go decades and decades and then 0:50:34.760 --> 0:50:38.640 try and recount their story. Who knows how much of 0:50:38.640 --> 0:50:41.960 that is objectively true. 0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:46.240 Yeah, agreed. 0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:50.279 Travis didn't even remember this at the time, didn't think 0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:53.680 about it for decades, and then he looked back and 0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:58.359 was like, oh, that was interesting, and then that connection happened. See, 0:50:58.360 --> 0:51:00.520 we want things that you bring up a really good point. 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:04.640 We want things really clean. And Greg Bishop is the 0:51:04.640 --> 0:51:06.600 first one to tell me when I first started going 0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:10.120 down this rabbit hole, dude, be aware, this is not 0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:15.399 clean at all. It's messy as hell. And he says 0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:19.240 he doesn't like John Keel. He doesn't trust cases unless 0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:23.320 they have high strangeness, unless there's something weird, right, Yes, 0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:26.840 And so it's a detail that folds in and whether 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:28.719 that's a screen memory of yeah, I member as a 0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:31.239 kid talking to an owl, then you realize I can't 0:51:31.280 --> 0:51:31.960 talk to an owl. 0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:34.200 And so it's strange in. 0:51:34.160 --> 0:51:39.759 That way because we do editorialize things a lot, and 0:51:39.800 --> 0:51:44.000 we also camparnamentalize things that don't become relevant till later 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:47.279 and we go, oh, oh wow, so this was that, 0:51:47.400 --> 0:51:50.480 et cetera. And so I think that maybe that's a 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:52.120 component of this. 0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:54.880 We've obviously told our story about what happened to us 0:51:54.880 --> 0:51:58.279 at Dark Skuys. Have you and your Hollywood rumblings and 0:51:58.400 --> 0:52:01.920 ramblings ever run across anyone else who has told a 0:52:01.960 --> 0:52:06.160 story about a government approach to them in any way? 0:52:06.280 --> 0:52:09.080 Have you heard that story? Has anyone ever talked to 0:52:09.120 --> 0:52:11.080 you personally about such a thing. 0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:15.680 Sorry, Stephen, they're asking me again, and I just don't 0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:16.520 wear me down. 0:52:17.280 --> 0:52:19.200 I'm not good at this man. You're better at this 0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:23.600 good cop, bad cop. I'm just going to tell them no, no, 0:52:23.760 --> 0:52:27.000 all right, I cannot have it happen yet. I'm looking 0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:30.360 forward to it, to be honest, because I've got a 0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:32.279 whole bunch of questions that I want to ask them 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:34.399 and say, hold on, holdah, why does this matter to you? 0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:37.600 And there's people out here that will go nameless who 0:52:37.640 --> 0:52:40.640 talk about the threats that sometimes these these. 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:43.480 Characters have made, and not to make light of it. 0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:45.799 But when I hear they came to me and they 0:52:45.840 --> 0:52:49.799 threatened me, I go, okay, that's because I worked on 0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:51.280 crime shows for fifteen years. 0:52:51.360 --> 0:52:54.040 They don't threaten you like that. They don't literally overtly 0:52:54.080 --> 0:52:55.640 say we will take you down. 0:52:55.719 --> 0:52:56.000 Nobody. 0:52:56.400 --> 0:53:00.000 It's not bad dialogue. It is Hey, it was really interesting. 0:53:00.640 --> 0:53:03.720 I saw that your daughter had a different lunchbox today 0:53:04.560 --> 0:53:07.200 then she had before, and there was a different route 0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:08.440 that they took to school. 0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:09.880 That's all that needs to be said. 0:53:10.239 --> 0:53:12.480 We were never threatened, but we did get that postcard 0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:14.960 while we were shooting the pilot that said we are 0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:18.440 watching you, which is it's not a threat, it's just 0:53:18.800 --> 0:53:22.759 but the observation feels unnerving to have somebody say they're 0:53:22.800 --> 0:53:25.040 watching us, So who wants that? 0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:26.480 I don't want anyone watching me. 0:53:27.120 --> 0:53:29.680 Although they did say that if we wanted to make 0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:31.520 the deal, we had to meet them in a cemetery 0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:35.600 at midnight, so again not a direct threat, but certainly 0:53:35.920 --> 0:53:37.800 not the warmest invitation you could. 0:53:37.600 --> 0:53:37.960 Be, Dean. 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:40.200 If we don't get to this, we must go back 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:44.200 to the beginning. Okay, you are the guy behind the 0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:48.960 McPherson tape. Okay, which was also it's so confusing to me. 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:52.680 We met at a UFO conference where we were like 0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:55.640 sharing a table. My son was there and I think 0:53:55.680 --> 0:53:59.160 he was trying to put himself through college selling dark 0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:02.719 skies videos or something, and you guys were bonding, and 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:06.399 you told us this story about the McPherson tape because 0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:08.640 you had some copies of it there, but it was 0:54:08.680 --> 0:54:13.600 also called the UFO Conductions, and then you were talking 0:54:13.640 --> 0:54:18.520 about how then you remade it for the CW. But also, 0:54:18.600 --> 0:54:20.520 as you said earlier on our show, that you had 0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:23.200 to admit that you had to go on national TV 0:54:23.280 --> 0:54:27.080 and explain it wasn't real because people were taking My 0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:30.960 mind is blown. I still today can't quite explain it all. 0:54:31.160 --> 0:54:32.960 So I'm going to give you the floor here my 0:54:33.040 --> 0:54:37.040 friend tell us the story of the McPherson tape. 0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:39.680 I'm just going to cure the DVD commentary. Hold on 0:54:39.680 --> 0:54:40.560 one second, you. 0:54:40.560 --> 0:54:41.919 Have that, Nick, can you pull it out? 0:54:42.320 --> 0:54:45.840 It's really Again I mentioned that I feel like Forrest Gump. 0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:50.160 There was no genius behind this. It was just the circumstances. Again, 0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:53.520 I was training twenty five. All of my idols, including Spielberg, 0:54:53.560 --> 0:54:55.400 had made their first film by twenty five, so I 0:54:55.440 --> 0:54:57.600 had to do something. And a buddy of mindset I'll 0:54:57.600 --> 0:54:59.400 give you sixty five hundred bucks to make a movie, 0:54:59.680 --> 0:55:02.640 and I just read Communion. And on the side, I 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:06.520 was filming with my buddy wedding videos and so I 0:55:06.560 --> 0:55:09.560 was used to the VHS formats and home video and 0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:11.440 I thought, oh, I also love war, the worlds? 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:11.960 What if I do? 0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:16.800 Basically wore the worlds on videotape, and I ascribed to 0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:20.880 the letter of the law onto these the experiences of 0:55:20.880 --> 0:55:22.799 the family members and the creatures, what they look like 0:55:22.840 --> 0:55:23.320 and everything. 0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:24.600 And so I made this thing. 0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:27.080 We shot it in a day and a half, and 0:55:27.120 --> 0:55:28.800 then it became again. 0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:29.839 Like I said I thought it was. 0:55:30.160 --> 0:55:32.960 There was a There was actually a warehouse fire where 0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:35.239 I was told that my main master, all my artwork. 0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:37.240 Were gone, burned to the ground. History. 0:55:37.600 --> 0:55:40.640 And so five years later, I get a call from 0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:42.560 this guy. I'm not going to say his name because 0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:45.879 he's no longer with us, but Sean David Morton, and 0:55:46.360 --> 0:55:49.719 he was a character in this and he would talk 0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:52.960 about this, so that's why I mentioned him. But he said, look, 0:55:53.040 --> 0:55:55.880 I just came back from the International UFO Congress Convention. 0:55:56.800 --> 0:56:00.680 Here's what happened. Unsolved Mysteries hardcome being a show call 0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:02.920 Encounters on Fox. They want to do a story on this, 0:56:03.000 --> 0:56:06.279 they want to get this footage. And so I said, well, 0:56:06.400 --> 0:56:09.560 Unsolved Mysteries is out, and he actually said not necessarily. 0:56:10.400 --> 0:56:12.000 And I said, that's pretty sure. 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:15.360 It's called unsolved, not Solve Mysteries, and he goes, okay, 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:19.680 So I went on the Fox show Encounters and then 0:56:20.080 --> 0:56:23.600 that six and a half minute clip. Flash forward another 0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:27.040 few years later, I'm working on the Stephen J. Cannell 0:56:27.080 --> 0:56:30.319 crime series and the head writer, Paul Chitlick says, hey, man, 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:33.839 I heard about this whole video craziness and I go yeah, 0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:36.120 and he says I want to see it, and I go, yeah, No, 0:56:36.920 --> 0:56:40.640 it's weird. It's handheld, and I'm trying to rip off 0:56:40.680 --> 0:56:44.000 Spielberg and Scorsese with each episode I do, and I 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:46.640 don't want to show this handheld home video thing, and 0:56:46.680 --> 0:56:48.439 he tells me to shut up and show it to him. 0:56:48.640 --> 0:56:49.680 I show it to him. 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:51.319 And then the next day he says, we have a 0:56:51.360 --> 0:56:54.480 meeting at Dick Clark Productions, and I think we can 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:56.640 sell as a TV movie. And I said, all right, 0:56:56.680 --> 0:57:00.000 I want a story by credit. You can write this teleplay. 0:57:00.719 --> 0:57:02.640 I'll direct it you and I will produce it. Now 0:57:02.840 --> 0:57:06.120 go back to your office. So we go and we 0:57:06.160 --> 0:57:08.200 pitch it. We walk in there, we show them the 0:57:08.239 --> 0:57:12.040 six a half minute segment. The head of TV movie department, 0:57:12.080 --> 0:57:14.920 Dick Clark Neil Stearns, shakes her hand and says, we're 0:57:14.960 --> 0:57:17.840 going to take it. So that was my first Hollywood deal. 0:57:17.880 --> 0:57:20.600 I'm thirty two years old. It gives me great anxiety 0:57:20.600 --> 0:57:22.560 because I've been trying to be a filmmaker since I 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:24.280 was a teenager, and all of a sudden things are 0:57:24.360 --> 0:57:27.600 going well. Doesn't make sense. It's as much a mindscrew 0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.440 as not getting what you want. And so flash forward 0:57:30.440 --> 0:57:33.000 a few months later and we're making it as UPN's 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:36.440 flagship first TV movie. And so now the budget is 0:57:36.520 --> 0:57:38.680 we're shooting in Canada, so it's one point seven million. 0:57:39.480 --> 0:57:41.320 I can't spend that. We come in half a million 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:43.160 hunder budget. We get the guys from the X Files 0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:44.160 do the ship in Aliens. 0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:47.160 This time it's called the McPherson tape. 0:57:47.520 --> 0:57:49.800 I picked McPherson because I had the word fear in it, 0:57:50.240 --> 0:57:53.720 and so I thought a nice little nod there for 0:57:53.880 --> 0:57:56.440 thriller purposes. And so we go, we shoot in a 0:57:56.440 --> 0:57:59.959 week instead of one night, and everyone gets fired at UPN. 0:58:00.200 --> 0:58:02.960 We come back, they fire us, They cut it down 0:58:02.960 --> 0:58:06.080 to an hour, They sacrifice it because they want to 0:58:06.120 --> 0:58:07.920 show that the regime before them, you guys have heard 0:58:07.920 --> 0:58:10.000 this before, didn't know what they were doing, and thank 0:58:10.040 --> 0:58:12.040 god they heard the save of the network. It gets 0:58:12.040 --> 0:58:14.880 in the highest ratings for a Tuesday prime time. They 0:58:14.920 --> 0:58:17.760 aired again after they put more footage in. A week later, 0:58:17.840 --> 0:58:19.640 it does even better, and they say that'll never be 0:58:19.680 --> 0:58:21.320 on this network again because they've got an egg on 0:58:21.320 --> 0:58:23.360 their face. And then a year and a half later, 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:26.760 the Blair Witch Project comes out and now they're. 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:30.480 Like, oh, now we get it. Then the internet hits. 0:58:30.880 --> 0:58:34.520 In fact, something that was what my old partner Paul 0:58:34.560 --> 0:58:37.760 mentioned is there was an online poll that was taken 0:58:38.520 --> 0:58:40.680 to say do you believe this tape is real or not? 0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:45.640 Forty nine percent Basically fifty percent thought that it was real, 0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:48.520 even after credits had said Alien one, two and three 0:58:48.600 --> 0:58:51.400 played piso ins. So that might taught me something. And 0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:54.120 then so for several years I had to go online 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:57.000 and I had to again debunk and show pictures behind 0:58:57.000 --> 0:58:59.760 the scenes, look this isn't real as well. So I 0:58:59.800 --> 0:59:03.320 did do myself any favors by doing the remake, but 0:59:03.480 --> 0:59:07.440 that's so far been my foray into independent films in 0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:11.000 sci fi, and so then that led me ultimately to 0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:14.120 come back to my people, the UFO community in twenty 0:59:14.200 --> 0:59:16.720 eighteen and start research on these documentaries. 0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:20.360 That's quite a story. It's incredible. 0:59:20.760 --> 0:59:24.120 What I think is so interesting is that you made 0:59:24.160 --> 0:59:26.880 what I would have to say, it's a very difficult transition. 0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:30.400 You went from making something fictional that a lot of 0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:33.320 people believed, right, even if that was not your intention. 0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.960 The minute when people are told, oh, no, everything you believe, No, 0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:40.120 that's fake, that's Hollywood, the initial response is going to 0:59:40.120 --> 0:59:42.880 be one of defensiveness and anger. Who's this person that 0:59:42.920 --> 0:59:44.200 tried to fake everybody? Out? 0:59:44.360 --> 0:59:44.600 Right? 0:59:45.320 --> 0:59:49.920 You made that transition into now a respected documentarian in 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:53.560 the field actually bringing truth to the topic, And so 0:59:54.200 --> 0:59:56.280 I applaud you for that, because I just I know 0:59:56.480 --> 0:59:58.439 we're still stuck on the side of the fence where 0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:01.280 we've got at least one foot in the fictional camp 1:00:01.320 --> 1:00:04.160 and dipping a toe into the truth and the facts. 1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:06.480 But that's not an easy transition to make. 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:09.600 No, And if I wasn't on record, and there wasn't 1:00:09.640 --> 1:00:12.600 footage of me debunking my own film, there would be 1:00:12.680 --> 1:00:14.440 an argument to say, this guy is full of it 1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:17.040 and he's at it again. But along the way, I've 1:00:17.040 --> 1:00:20.760 been transparent. In fact, I had myself in the documentary 1:00:20.800 --> 1:00:24.360 talking about the history of this. But Leslie Kane when 1:00:24.400 --> 1:00:27.960 I interviewed her, she said to me, she goes, as 1:00:27.960 --> 1:00:32.480 we're packing wrapping out of her apartment, she says, she goes, yeah, 1:00:32.560 --> 1:00:35.480 you're not gonna be in it, are You? And I 1:00:36.000 --> 1:00:38.520 have a history tied into this, So I was thinking, yeah, 1:00:38.520 --> 1:00:40.840 we'd do that. She goes, okay, and I'm like, why 1:00:40.920 --> 1:00:42.760 does she care if I'm in here or not? And 1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:44.680 then I go and I edit myself into him. I go, 1:00:45.680 --> 1:00:47.480 I'm not the story. Why do I need to be 1:00:47.600 --> 1:00:50.400 in here? I would rather hear the experiencers speak for 1:00:50.480 --> 1:00:53.200 themselves and have them state their case and then let 1:00:53.240 --> 1:00:55.240 the audience decide if they feel it's real or not 1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:58.120 without having to spoon feed it to them. They're much 1:00:58.160 --> 1:01:01.800 more intelligent than that. The confusion, and there's tons of 1:01:01.800 --> 1:01:04.000 it around this. To get back to your question, Bryce, 1:01:04.120 --> 1:01:06.840 the McPherson tape the title, So the remake was called 1:01:06.840 --> 1:01:11.400 the McPherson tape. That became the foreign version that still called, 1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:14.120 which was the ninety minute uncut version because I was 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:17.680 sold to someone else, not upn so that stayed the same, 1:01:18.080 --> 1:01:20.920 but the domestic one was changed to the imaginative title 1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:25.480 Alien Abduction Incident in Lake County and so so. 1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:27.520 Three titles for this project. 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:28.960 There's three titles. 1:01:29.280 --> 1:01:32.840 And then people the conspiracy mills started rolling around. They said, 1:01:33.280 --> 1:01:36.960 all right, so the alien Abduction Instant Lake County is 1:01:36.960 --> 1:01:40.280 actually based on a real movie called the McPherson Tape. 1:01:40.680 --> 1:01:43.320 And instead of putting it on that same movie, they said, 1:01:43.360 --> 1:01:46.960 there's an original version of alien Abduction. That one is 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:50.360 called the McPherson Tape. So the original the OG nineteen 1:01:50.360 --> 1:01:53.200 eighty nine is now called the McPherson Tape. I don't 1:01:53.200 --> 1:01:57.400 fight it, I just go all right, just sure, yes. 1:01:57.240 --> 1:01:59.800 I just want to ask your opinion about something because 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:02.760 it's very important in terms of the yin and the 1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:05.080 yang of what's real and what's not real. And that 1:02:05.280 --> 1:02:08.600 is in the late nineties, because you've had experience with 1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:13.760 the network system. Fox airs the alien autopsy right now. 1:02:14.080 --> 1:02:17.600 If there's ever been one where at first it's presented 1:02:17.640 --> 1:02:20.640 as real, then it's revealed as not real, but then 1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:24.800 people continue to say it's real, that would be that project. 1:02:25.240 --> 1:02:28.560 Do you know anything about can you bring our audience 1:02:28.640 --> 1:02:31.120 up to speed on that particular story and what your 1:02:31.160 --> 1:02:32.560 take on it is. 1:02:32.680 --> 1:02:38.400 I have two stories on this. So Bob Kivit, who 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:42.000 is a producer. He's the one that produced the Encounter 1:02:42.120 --> 1:02:46.880 segment where I debunked with footage and stuff my own film. 1:02:47.440 --> 1:02:51.240 He called me a year or two after and said, hey, 1:02:51.920 --> 1:02:55.360 I got this footage of this autops and he describes 1:02:55.400 --> 1:02:58.200 it to me. And I said to him, can I 1:02:58.240 --> 1:03:02.040 swear on this podcast, by the way, yes, okay, yes, 1:03:02.680 --> 1:03:04.880 in fact, it's better to do, so please. 1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:06.360 Go okay, all right? 1:03:06.560 --> 1:03:08.840 And I think I get paid every time you guys 1:03:08.840 --> 1:03:13.560 get paid every time I swearword is dropped. So I said, yeah, Bob, 1:03:13.680 --> 1:03:16.680 sounds like bullshit to me, and Bob says, and he 1:03:16.720 --> 1:03:19.000 disagrees that he said this, but I remember it. 1:03:19.000 --> 1:03:21.840 It'ched to my brain. He said, yeah, you're probably right, but. 1:03:21.800 --> 1:03:24.280 I'm going to make a crapload of money from this, 1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:28.240 and he did. And so that was the truth. 1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:31.720 That was the fact. And so at that point. 1:03:31.880 --> 1:03:33.919 Hang, I want, let's be clear what we're talking about 1:03:33.920 --> 1:03:37.080 for people who are joining us. This is footage that 1:03:37.360 --> 1:03:42.840 is presented as the actual footage from the autopsy of 1:03:42.880 --> 1:03:47.640 an alien done from the Roswell wreckage. Correct. So in 1:03:47.680 --> 1:03:51.120 other words, we are watching when you watch this film, 1:03:51.520 --> 1:03:55.800 you are watching doctors in gowns and nurses and in 1:03:55.880 --> 1:03:59.760 a room cutting open an alien body. Is that correct? 1:03:59.800 --> 1:04:02.040 And did you think when you saw it did you 1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:05.720 think it looked realistic at all esthetically? 1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:09.040 No. First of all, if you're gonna have take, you're 1:04:09.040 --> 1:04:11.080 gonna take the time to set up lights and everything 1:04:11.120 --> 1:04:12.520 and to orchestrate this whole deal. 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:15.200 You're gonna get your exposure right. 1:04:15.560 --> 1:04:19.400 You're not gonna make a grainy like it was copying JFK. 1:04:20.000 --> 1:04:22.600 Right, You're not gonna do that. You're gonna put it 1:04:22.680 --> 1:04:23.400 on a tripod. 1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:26.920 There was tons of examples in the past where they 1:04:26.920 --> 1:04:29.240 would be doing experiments and stuff, they put things on 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:29.880 a tripod. 1:04:30.640 --> 1:04:32.720 They had the time to do that. It wasn't rushed. 1:04:33.320 --> 1:04:36.040 So that was two big flags. 1:04:35.600 --> 1:04:37.000 For me that it was trying to be too much 1:04:37.040 --> 1:04:39.200 cinema verite. We're gonna pop in and out of focus 1:04:39.240 --> 1:04:42.960 and everything. The other is that there's a new rumor 1:04:43.000 --> 1:04:47.560 that came out new Ish that this isn't the real footage, 1:04:47.600 --> 1:04:50.880 but it's based on real footage. And there's a couple 1:04:50.920 --> 1:04:53.959 shots where the leg is torn open where they dug 1:04:54.000 --> 1:04:56.160 into it in the autopsy, and some it's there it is. 1:04:56.560 --> 1:04:58.960 Those are probably outtakes, so they tried that version, didn't work. 1:04:59.040 --> 1:04:59.360 Whatever. 1:05:00.080 --> 1:05:03.840 It just goes on and on. But it's already been debunked, 1:05:04.560 --> 1:05:06.600 and I know there's going to be some listeners that 1:05:06.640 --> 1:05:08.960 will say, no, it's that's what they want you to 1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:13.080 think and everything. Again, I'm going to plead ignorance that 1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:15.480 I don't know everything, but based on the information that 1:05:15.480 --> 1:05:17.520 I've gotten and what I've looked at, and I've worked 1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:19.720 in this in a long field a long time, it 1:05:19.760 --> 1:05:20.920 doesn't pass muster. 1:05:21.560 --> 1:05:23.760 So I'm going to call BS on that. 1:05:24.040 --> 1:05:27.760 Another note, Two more things on this is Bob and 1:05:27.800 --> 1:05:32.200 I talked about doing the Alien Autopsy Part two, so 1:05:32.720 --> 1:05:37.600 I was going to direct that, but yeah, of course, 1:05:38.480 --> 1:05:41.160 but it wasn't going to be more fake footage. It 1:05:41.280 --> 1:05:45.920 was going to be doing a reenactment of what happened 1:05:45.920 --> 1:05:47.440 with the military, and we were going to see the 1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:50.760 crash disc happen and everything blah blah blah, which later 1:05:50.840 --> 1:05:52.959 on or I don't know when it happened before after, 1:05:53.160 --> 1:05:56.240 but you've got Unsolved Mysteries which handled it really well. 1:05:56.720 --> 1:05:58.080 So we were basically going to do the. 1:05:58.000 --> 1:06:01.840 Same thing that ended up not happening, and then from 1:06:01.880 --> 1:06:06.440 that flash forward, I'm going out now and this is 1:06:06.520 --> 1:06:10.560 ninety six, ninety seven, and we're pitching the alien abduction 1:06:10.600 --> 1:06:12.440 in St. Lake County, and we go and we pitch 1:06:12.480 --> 1:06:16.680 it to Fox, and we're pitching it to the same guy, 1:06:17.040 --> 1:06:23.000 Mike Darnell, who agreed, yeah, okay to green light Alien 1:06:23.040 --> 1:06:26.560 Autopsy a few years before then. And he says to 1:06:26.600 --> 1:06:29.360 Paul and I, he says, this is a type of 1:06:29.400 --> 1:06:33.960 project that people lose careers over. And so we spilled 1:06:34.000 --> 1:06:36.960 coffee on his bear rug, Polar bear rug, and we 1:06:37.080 --> 1:06:38.880 left well done. 1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:41.880 Yeah, so that was us that spilled the coffee, by 1:06:41.880 --> 1:06:42.200 the way. 1:06:42.760 --> 1:06:45.600 But anyway, so that's what I know about the alien 1:06:45.600 --> 1:06:46.680 Autopsy deal. 1:06:47.760 --> 1:06:54.120 Wow. Found footage, though, has made some better versions. Certainly 1:06:54.160 --> 1:06:57.800 Area fifty one is a found footage alien movie, but 1:06:58.400 --> 1:07:01.280 it's well done. It's actually rendered in all that. Do 1:07:01.320 --> 1:07:03.960 you have a favorite beside your own? Do you have 1:07:04.000 --> 1:07:08.960 a found footage alien film that you've enjoyed alien film? 1:07:09.080 --> 1:07:13.600 It's funny I alien found footage though, but in that Yeah. 1:07:13.200 --> 1:07:16.920 I recently did a zoom meeting with Eduardo Sanchez, who 1:07:16.960 --> 1:07:21.280 was one of the co creator of the Blair Witch project, 1:07:21.520 --> 1:07:23.480 and it was really funny because he thought that I 1:07:23.520 --> 1:07:26.680 was pissed off at him because he had seen my 1:07:26.840 --> 1:07:29.960 film and they did their own version, and I said, no, 1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:34.280 you can't copyright a style of filmmaking, a new narrative. 1:07:34.880 --> 1:07:36.760 I'm happy to be one of the first out of 1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:39.480 the gate to do it, but no, And so he was. 1:07:39.600 --> 1:07:40.920 He's a really nice guy. Anyway. 1:07:41.560 --> 1:07:46.280 Yeah, a couple Canadian associates fans of my film. They 1:07:46.280 --> 1:07:49.800 were called the Vicious Brothers. They did a thing called Extraterrestrial. 1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:53.960 Yes and yeah, and in fact, one of the characters, 1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:57.120 I think the sheriff's name is McPherson, which was named 1:07:57.160 --> 1:07:59.520 after as an homage, which I thought was really nice. 1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:03.439 Yeah, there have been good films. Extraterrestrial has not found 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:04.800 footage though, is it. 1:08:04.800 --> 1:08:05.640 It's no, it isn't. 1:08:05.680 --> 1:08:10.200 But they did one that was Encounters. Theirs was called Encounters. 1:08:10.320 --> 1:08:12.560 Thank you for correcting. Yet they worked in that space 1:08:12.640 --> 1:08:15.360 a lot. They're big fans of the genre. But anyway, 1:08:15.480 --> 1:08:18.120 and then I was trying to get work directed on 1:08:18.160 --> 1:08:23.639 Alias and JJ Abrams partner had seen on my reel 1:08:23.680 --> 1:08:26.879 because I sent it into him to get work directing, 1:08:27.360 --> 1:08:30.240 and that had clips of alien abduction into Lake County. 1:08:30.280 --> 1:08:34.720 And then a year later strange coincidence, Cloverfield comes out. 1:08:35.000 --> 1:08:38.400 Cloverfield is about a bunch of people getting together and 1:08:38.439 --> 1:08:41.040 then there's a blackout and you know the rest, and 1:08:41.040 --> 1:08:43.000 so it was very similar. And then when I saw 1:08:43.040 --> 1:08:44.920 the movie Signs, I started getting a lot of people 1:08:44.960 --> 1:08:49.120 telling me he ripped you off because it is a 1:08:49.160 --> 1:08:55.280 single parent with three kids out in the country. And 1:08:55.400 --> 1:08:58.280 there's even a shot by shot breakdown where you see 1:08:58.320 --> 1:09:02.559 an alien sneaking into the floor. And my thing again, 1:09:03.160 --> 1:09:06.599 if m Night shall mount ding Dong, if he happen 1:09:06.920 --> 1:09:10.679 to see that, then that's great. That's a nod to everyone. 1:09:10.800 --> 1:09:12.680 I don't think any of this is I don't want 1:09:12.680 --> 1:09:14.519 to imagine. Ay, this is intentional, but it doesn't matter. 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:17.799 I'm flattered at the best and worst case scenario. 1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:21.040 Well, we got a race for the exit here. But 1:09:21.120 --> 1:09:23.760 let me just ask you to speculate or to give 1:09:23.800 --> 1:09:27.840 us your thought on the essential situation here. As we've 1:09:27.880 --> 1:09:30.320 been doing sound, light and frequency, we're kind of asking 1:09:30.360 --> 1:09:34.920 a question, does the real thing that's happening, the phenomenon, 1:09:36.080 --> 1:09:41.080 find its way into Hollywood product or does Hollywood product 1:09:41.320 --> 1:09:46.800 influence people to describe their experiences through a lens that 1:09:46.880 --> 1:09:49.720 Hollywood has already given them. Do you see that's the 1:09:49.760 --> 1:09:52.680 whole chicken and egg thing that Brent was mentioning. Do 1:09:52.720 --> 1:09:54.960 you see that as an issue? Has it ever been 1:09:55.000 --> 1:09:57.040 an issue? Do you have an example of any of 1:09:57.080 --> 1:09:58.439 that or what is your take on that? 1:10:03.479 --> 1:10:07.880 My take is just I'll just cite you guys, Okay. 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:10.640 I mean, you've been working in this for decades. What 1:10:10.800 --> 1:10:13.439 is it that brings it out in you? Science fiction 1:10:14.080 --> 1:10:17.400 is nothing but prophesizing what's to come? 1:10:17.800 --> 1:10:20.559 Good Lord, look at HG. Wells going a trip to 1:10:20.600 --> 1:10:20.880 the moon. 1:10:21.520 --> 1:10:23.599 He said there's gonna be a rocket and there's gonna 1:10:23.600 --> 1:10:24.920 be booster stages with it. 1:10:25.640 --> 1:10:26.559 How does he know that? 1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:28.520 And so that's just good. 1:10:28.360 --> 1:10:31.479 Sci fi writing. As a sci fi writer myself, I'm 1:10:31.520 --> 1:10:34.840 constantly thinking. At three am, usually the muse comes and 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:37.800 does a swing by my on my ass and says, hey, 1:10:37.960 --> 1:10:38.400 what if? 1:10:38.760 --> 1:10:39.200 What if? 1:10:39.600 --> 1:10:41.519 And that sends us down this rabbit hole because we 1:10:41.560 --> 1:10:44.000 want to have it grounded, we go ahead and we 1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:46.120 do our homework and everything. So it ends up being 1:10:46.160 --> 1:10:50.680 confused if it's good with something that could be. And 1:10:50.760 --> 1:10:54.720 so I think that it's constantly something that as filmmakers, 1:10:54.760 --> 1:10:56.880 it's playtime. It's stuff that we can get into this, 1:10:57.280 --> 1:11:01.640 and that's my answer to that. But there's other influencers, 1:11:01.640 --> 1:11:05.559 influences that aren't Sci Fi related in this space that 1:11:05.640 --> 1:11:08.840 are dangerous and this needs to be said. 1:11:10.080 --> 1:11:13.160 JD Vance came out and said, these are demons. 1:11:13.800 --> 1:11:16.040 Now. I've talked to lou Elizondo and he said, hey, 1:11:16.080 --> 1:11:20.080 when I was briefing these generals, there was a small 1:11:20.120 --> 1:11:21.760 portion of them that would come up and say, hey, 1:11:22.080 --> 1:11:26.360 you're doing God's work, and another percentage smaller would come 1:11:26.400 --> 1:11:26.640 up and. 1:11:26.640 --> 1:11:27.799 Say, you do know their demons? 1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:32.000 Right, with no evidence to support that, they just felt that. 1:11:32.600 --> 1:11:37.080 So when JD says something like that, my ears prick 1:11:37.160 --> 1:11:40.720 up because I'm going, all right, what's with A the 1:11:40.800 --> 1:11:45.040 labeling and b how do we get to demons? Timber Chet, 1:11:45.840 --> 1:11:48.960 Congressman timber Chet took exception with this, and he said, 1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:52.760 I'm okay with Jesus, but why does a demon need 1:11:52.760 --> 1:11:56.559 a machine to get around? And So when I was 1:11:56.560 --> 1:11:59.320 speaking a couple of weeks ago at this art show 1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:01.559 that was all by experiencers, all the art was done 1:12:01.600 --> 1:12:05.160 by experiencers, I'm talking about this and I'm saying, if 1:12:05.200 --> 1:12:06.880 these guys like Brent you said this earlier, if they 1:12:06.880 --> 1:12:07.880 want to take us out, they would have. 1:12:07.880 --> 1:12:09.320 Already taken us out, no problem. 1:12:09.520 --> 1:12:11.960 And so I'm saying this and a couple other things, 1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:14.800 and I'm also talking about how I almost feel bad, 1:12:14.880 --> 1:12:17.280 like it almost brings me to tears when I think 1:12:17.320 --> 1:12:19.280 about these beings. 1:12:19.360 --> 1:12:23.639 That don't have art. And I asked experiences. 1:12:23.680 --> 1:12:25.200 I said, when's the last time you've been on the 1:12:25.240 --> 1:12:28.599 table and you look over at these concaved walls and 1:12:28.640 --> 1:12:31.320 you've seen an alien mona, Lisa, are you seeing the 1:12:31.360 --> 1:12:35.639 alien Last Supper? Or even five alien dogs sitting around 1:12:35.640 --> 1:12:36.559 a table playing poker. 1:12:37.240 --> 1:12:39.759 It doesn't exist. They don't have that. They don't have music. 1:12:40.439 --> 1:12:41.280 I can't imagine. 1:12:41.360 --> 1:12:43.200 It's taken me out right now if we don't have art, 1:12:43.240 --> 1:12:45.120 if I can't go to a concert and experience that. 1:12:45.560 --> 1:12:47.720 And so it turns out that Whitley Streeber was in 1:12:47.760 --> 1:12:51.000 the audience, and I thought, Oh, what's his take going 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:53.639 to be on this, because he sees both sides, and 1:12:54.320 --> 1:12:57.200 Greg Bishop, who invited him, gives him the microphone and 1:12:57.240 --> 1:12:59.160 I'm like, oh God, okay. 1:12:58.800 --> 1:12:59.439 Here it goes. 1:13:00.280 --> 1:13:03.559 And I take up my iPhone and I'm videotaping it, 1:13:03.880 --> 1:13:09.519 and Whitley says this, He says regarding them. 1:13:09.400 --> 1:13:11.840 Eating us demons, that's what a demon does at each you. 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:13.559 It tears your part of all the drawings and stuff 1:13:13.600 --> 1:13:15.400 have that, And they're always black, and they've got chicken 1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:16.040 feet or something. 1:13:16.560 --> 1:13:17.120 He says. 1:13:17.760 --> 1:13:20.559 If they wanted to eat us, we'd already been eight. 1:13:23.200 --> 1:13:25.800 So where's the evidence of this. Where's the villages that 1:13:25.800 --> 1:13:28.600 have been wiped out? They're not doing that, And so 1:13:28.920 --> 1:13:31.320 it's really I'm just going to use the s word silly. 1:13:32.000 --> 1:13:36.200 What about other people talk about there's people that have 1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:38.600 been picked up and mutilated? Do you buy any of that? 1:13:39.720 --> 1:13:40.879 I don't have any evidence. 1:13:41.000 --> 1:13:44.000 No one's come forward, The family hasn't said, hey, these 1:13:44.040 --> 1:13:47.400 are all stories hearsay. And so for me, again, give 1:13:47.439 --> 1:13:49.760 me the evidence and I'm on board. I'm an empirical, 1:13:49.920 --> 1:13:52.120 stupid thinking guy. Just make it simple for me. 1:13:52.560 --> 1:13:53.400 I've not seen that. 1:13:53.479 --> 1:13:55.679 And so what it does for the experience is because 1:13:56.120 --> 1:13:57.840 I'm going to be going to another experience of support 1:13:57.840 --> 1:13:59.559 group and I'm going to be addressing this very thing 1:13:59.600 --> 1:14:02.040 because I've been put in a position where I'm in 1:14:02.080 --> 1:14:06.479 a way representing a faction of the phenomenon here, and 1:14:06.560 --> 1:14:09.439 so i want to know exactly what the concerns are 1:14:09.479 --> 1:14:12.160 in my conversations over the phone and on zooms has 1:14:12.240 --> 1:14:16.320 been if they're associating these grays or any of these 1:14:16.320 --> 1:14:20.240 beings with demons, then by proxy or by being adjacent, 1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:26.200 what does that mean for us, these experiencers, because are 1:14:26.200 --> 1:14:27.720 they going to be in threat of this? And I 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:29.800 note that Gary Nolan is working on coming up with 1:14:29.800 --> 1:14:33.160 a way of test to be able to identify someone 1:14:33.200 --> 1:14:34.960 who is an experiencer versus someone who isn't. 1:14:35.479 --> 1:14:36.840 So I don't know. 1:14:36.880 --> 1:14:39.400 I'm projecting out to a nightmare of rounding up people. 1:14:39.760 --> 1:14:43.800 But it's a bigger conversation. But it's not good, it's 1:14:43.840 --> 1:14:47.720 not healthy, and it's propaganda. And these people and that's 1:14:47.760 --> 1:14:50.160 the reason why I made this duck. These people need 1:14:50.280 --> 1:14:54.200 empathy and understanding. And the best compliment that we've gotten 1:14:54.240 --> 1:14:56.360 on our film is they feel triggered. 1:14:56.360 --> 1:14:57.800 And at first I was concerned about that. 1:14:57.840 --> 1:14:59.240 I go, I don't want to trigger anyone, and they 1:14:59.240 --> 1:15:02.080 said no, it is so realistic, the portrayal and the 1:15:02.120 --> 1:15:03.920 way that it's done and left up to the audience. 1:15:04.439 --> 1:15:06.880 That was my experience. And the second thing. 1:15:06.840 --> 1:15:11.320 Is they feel heard, and I'm like, okay, and so 1:15:11.520 --> 1:15:14.519 Leslie Kane says, I'm working the space for the empathy 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:15.960 of these people. 1:15:15.680 --> 1:15:16.600 The experiencers. 1:15:17.000 --> 1:15:19.760 Yes, So anyway, I feel like I'm being co opted, 1:15:19.880 --> 1:15:21.439 And if that's the reason, then so be it. 1:15:21.520 --> 1:15:24.160 I'm going to connect two more dots. Being true to 1:15:24.200 --> 1:15:28.120 myself here, just spent three dots, just one. No, I 1:15:28.160 --> 1:15:32.000 cannot do three, only two. So on this topic of 1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:38.040 experiencers having strange encounters with aliens, we've already talked about 1:15:38.040 --> 1:15:41.200 that there's different kinds out there. I think one of 1:15:41.240 --> 1:15:45.719 the fascinating things is that if you look at something 1:15:45.760 --> 1:15:48.320 that Ernie Klein said to us on our show. He 1:15:48.439 --> 1:15:52.240 talked about this idea that maybe writers are just remote viewing. 1:15:52.800 --> 1:15:56.920 They're seeing ideas unfold in the future. They're recording them. 1:15:56.960 --> 1:16:00.519 They're thinking it's their imagination, and they're put it down 1:16:00.560 --> 1:16:03.280 and lo and behold it becomes true. Right, you've all 1:16:03.280 --> 1:16:06.200 heard the story about the Star Trek communicator, right leading 1:16:06.240 --> 1:16:09.000 to someone came up with that idea. It goes into 1:16:09.000 --> 1:16:11.760 the media, and now it's inspiring scientists to go make it. 1:16:11.760 --> 1:16:13.840 So again, this is the whole chicken in the egg thing. 1:16:14.200 --> 1:16:17.040 But then the other aspect of this that I think 1:16:17.120 --> 1:16:21.240 is fascinating is a lot of people who've had encounters 1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:23.920 with UFOs, whether it was abductions or even just in 1:16:23.960 --> 1:16:27.080 the proximity of them, have reported what something that you 1:16:27.200 --> 1:16:33.240 talk about, Dean, in I believe alien perspective is downloads. 1:16:33.840 --> 1:16:37.000 That this is another when you say why are they here? 1:16:37.520 --> 1:16:41.400 Maybe they're doing things with us genetically, but they also 1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:44.200 seem to be, at least for some of us. You're 1:16:44.200 --> 1:16:48.639 getting a download, you're getting ideas. Some people are being 1:16:48.760 --> 1:16:53.320 blessed with huge upgrades in a new understanding of things 1:16:53.400 --> 1:16:55.519 that they had no idea about, whether it's math or 1:16:55.560 --> 1:16:58.720 science or languages or whatever. And by the way, this 1:16:58.880 --> 1:17:01.880 is a key component of just closure day, right, this 1:17:02.040 --> 1:17:06.600 idea of the downloads the upgrade of humanity. And so 1:17:06.760 --> 1:17:11.160 in that sense, maybe there is a very benevolent aspect 1:17:11.280 --> 1:17:15.160 to the visitations where maybe they are checking on us 1:17:15.160 --> 1:17:17.479 as a species, looking at our genetics in the same 1:17:17.520 --> 1:17:20.240 way that we do these this to animals right all 1:17:20.280 --> 1:17:23.840 over the planet without with almost always the intent of 1:17:23.880 --> 1:17:26.880 making sure that their species is okay, that it's going 1:17:26.960 --> 1:17:30.320 to survive. But at the same time they're also trying 1:17:30.320 --> 1:17:33.400 to lift us up. And certain people are that maybe 1:17:33.439 --> 1:17:36.720 are receptive to it. For whatever reason, are getting downloads, 1:17:37.160 --> 1:17:41.120 and if that's what's happening, then it's hard to see 1:17:41.120 --> 1:17:45.120 this as anything. The worst, it's neutral, right, but at 1:17:45.120 --> 1:17:48.680 the best, it's completely the opposite of demonic. 1:17:49.920 --> 1:17:54.599 Yeah, yeah, look, I don't agree that something like again, 1:17:54.720 --> 1:17:58.240 I'm going to call it a conspiracy that these beings, 1:17:58.640 --> 1:18:00.840 like there's tales of eating our soul and stuff. 1:18:00.880 --> 1:18:02.800 What does that even taste? Is it like chicken? 1:18:02.880 --> 1:18:05.880 Barbecue chicken? What tendory chicken? What kind of chicken we're 1:18:05.880 --> 1:18:09.519 talking about? It makes no sense. I'm my background, I 1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:12.040 used to do a lot of meditations, and I'm a. 1:18:12.040 --> 1:18:12.920 Very spiritual person. 1:18:12.960 --> 1:18:16.240 I do believe in reincarnation, as put forth in several 1:18:16.240 --> 1:18:20.559 great books, like Cornell professor doctor Brian Weiss, I believe 1:18:20.600 --> 1:18:24.840 that our souls are equal to any other sentient beings. 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:27.400 It's not like on the other side wanted there's a 1:18:27.479 --> 1:18:30.400 hierarchy there. I believe that when we're here, because there 1:18:30.439 --> 1:18:33.400 is John Max is the dual alien identity, that some 1:18:33.439 --> 1:18:36.280 of the experiencers might have come from another planet or 1:18:36.320 --> 1:18:38.720 wherever these beans are coming from, and they've agreed to 1:18:38.760 --> 1:18:42.439 do this. Hence, when the experiencers say their first time 1:18:42.479 --> 1:18:44.320 early on, they say, have no right to do this, 1:18:44.760 --> 1:18:49.000 and these nhis say, yes, we do. And so I 1:18:49.040 --> 1:18:52.280 look at this and I go, Okay. I feel like 1:18:52.640 --> 1:18:55.680 there isn't something that is going to destroy us. I 1:18:55.680 --> 1:18:59.639 feel like ultimately everything came from somewhere, including the beans. 1:19:00.200 --> 1:19:01.400 The Vatican talks about. 1:19:01.200 --> 1:19:03.519 This, and so at the end of the day, I'm 1:19:03.560 --> 1:19:05.400 an optimist and at the end of the day love 1:19:05.680 --> 1:19:08.800 will always well out. And when I think of what's 1:19:08.800 --> 1:19:10.960 great about humanity, I don't think about all the bickering. 1:19:10.960 --> 1:19:13.280 I don't think about the greed, and I don't think 1:19:13.320 --> 1:19:16.280 about the insecurities that we have, which, by the way, 1:19:16.439 --> 1:19:19.960 if the Onanaki came and they've been genetically modifying us, 1:19:20.439 --> 1:19:22.240 can we breed that out? Because we can do that 1:19:22.240 --> 1:19:24.200 with dogs for centuries and be able to breed certain 1:19:24.200 --> 1:19:26.439 traits on can we breed those out? I feel like 1:19:27.240 --> 1:19:30.680 we are here to learn certain things. And so when 1:19:30.720 --> 1:19:33.880 people want full disclosure, I keep saying, we're not even 1:19:33.920 --> 1:19:37.040 a type one species yet, guys, and so we still 1:19:37.080 --> 1:19:39.439 have ways to go to meet halfway on the bridge, 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:43.880 and so experiencers, and when I go to these conventions 1:19:44.400 --> 1:19:47.639 and conferences, I believe all these people can handle full 1:19:47.680 --> 1:19:50.080 on disclosure because they're already experiencing it. A lot of 1:19:50.080 --> 1:19:53.040 these are boots on the ground. It's just the rest 1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:55.200 of the planet, and it's the OLED's saying, we're only 1:19:55.240 --> 1:19:58.599 as strong as our weakest link. So there's some work 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:00.320 that we have to do, but we're going to get there. 1:20:00.439 --> 1:20:02.960 That's the good news is we are going to get there. 1:20:03.160 --> 1:20:05.200 Thanks so much. It's always fun to talk to you, 1:20:05.280 --> 1:20:07.240 my friend, and I guess you and I'll be seeing 1:20:07.280 --> 1:20:09.920 each other at the lunch club. And the only question 1:20:10.000 --> 1:20:12.240 I have is if Friedman's in town, what do you 1:20:12.280 --> 1:20:14.599 think you think? And you can. 1:20:15.200 --> 1:20:21.400 Freeman's in town as ask you try to do the 1:20:21.439 --> 1:20:23.640 secret handshake, and if he fumbles it and it just 1:20:23.680 --> 1:20:25.960 doesn't seem natural, then that's a pass. 1:20:27.439 --> 1:20:30.000 Listen, Thanks so much, good luck, And let's state this. 1:20:30.320 --> 1:20:32.599 The name of the documentary that you can get now 1:20:32.640 --> 1:20:38.360 on Amazon and Apple is The Experiencers Full Disclosure. 1:20:38.280 --> 1:20:41.679 Full Monty Disclosure, Yes, and the other two. 1:20:41.720 --> 1:20:44.400 And if people want to see the McPherson tape, that's 1:20:44.439 --> 1:20:46.479 also on Amazon, but they can get the Blu ray version, 1:20:46.479 --> 1:20:48.799 which is even better, and it's and it's the prices 1:20:49.000 --> 1:20:51.000 is very reasonable you can get all the behind the 1:20:51.040 --> 1:20:53.880 scenes stuff which is just crazy. I've got commentaries, everything else. 1:20:53.960 --> 1:20:56.400 And then the other two documentaries, The Alien Perspective Part 1:20:56.439 --> 1:20:58.759 one and two, also on Amazon and Apple. 1:20:59.400 --> 1:21:01.760 All Right, thanks so much, we'll see you again. We'll 1:21:01.760 --> 1:21:04.280 see it at lunch Club. Bye bye, thank you, Thanks guys. 1:21:09.360 --> 1:21:12.479 Sound Light and Frequency is an iHeart podcast produced by 1:21:12.520 --> 1:21:16.280 Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick Johnson and for 1:21:16.400 --> 1:21:19.719 Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was written by Anna 1:21:19.800 --> 1:21:23.560 Stumf and Hamilton Lighthouser. And your hosts and executive producers 1:21:23.560 --> 1:21:26.880 are Brice Abel, That's me and Brent Friedman. Watch the 1:21:27.000 --> 1:21:27.320 GUIs