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Speaker 1: You've probably heard of fight club. It's the place where

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Speaker 1: if you get in it, you can't talk about it. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not tough enough or quiet enough to even be

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Speaker 1: in that club, but I am part of a UFO

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Speaker 1: lunch club, and every so often a gang of us

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Speaker 1: who work in showbiz and we care about UFOs. We

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Speaker 1: all get together at a restaurant in the valley. We

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Speaker 1: engage in some championship dining, kick around what we're working on,

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Speaker 1: talk about what's new in the whole UAP world, that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. It's great fun. The food is good,

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Speaker 1: but the company's better. And the current roster includes my

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Speaker 1: pals Andy Ceriano, Sylvan White, Dave Foley, all of whom

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Speaker 1: have Insane credits and are actively working in the business today.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest on Sound, Light and Frequency is in that

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Speaker 1: club too. He's a filmmaker whose career feels almost genetically

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Speaker 1: engineered for our show. Dean Aliotto is the writer and

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Speaker 1: the director behind The McPherson Tape, the nineteen eighty nine

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Speaker 1: alien abduction film that helped invent the whole found footage genre,

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Speaker 1: and right now he's got a new documentary out, The

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Speaker 1: ex Answers Full disclosure and it's a banger, man. I

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Speaker 1: gotta tell you we're gonna be talking about that and

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Speaker 1: a lot of other things. And he's bringing with him

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Speaker 1: an exclusive clip to the show from his interview with

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Speaker 1: Travis Walton. So that is worth waiting around for. But

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Speaker 1: before we bring Dean into the sound Light and Frequency Mothership, though,

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Speaker 1: let me just pull in my co host Brent Friedman. Brent,

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Speaker 1: are you there?

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Speaker 2: Hello?

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Speaker 1: Brent, there you are.

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Speaker 2: I'm just beamed down to earth.

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Speaker 1: You just beamed in. Listen, I know you. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: being beamed, you were working your ass off on Call

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Speaker 1: of Duty this week. Thanks for making the time to

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Speaker 1: come on in. What's going on? What are you working on?

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Speaker 2: I think we joked about this on Jesse Michael's show

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Speaker 2: that the only thing that is going to be slower

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Speaker 2: drip disclosure than about UAP and aliens is call of duty.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely cannot say anything. Oh excellent, I won't slow

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Speaker 1: drip that anymore. I'll tell you I got the opposite issue.

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Speaker 1: We are recording this right now a few days after

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Speaker 1: I just did an appearance on Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: with George Nori, and that's the one where you go

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Speaker 1: on the air at midnight, or at least that's the

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Speaker 1: slot they'd always give me midnight till two am, which

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Speaker 1: means I end up caffeinating at eleven thirty at night

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Speaker 1: so that I can be alert for the show, and

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Speaker 1: then after the show, I can't sleep, so it's a

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Speaker 1: last day. But something interesting occurred to me though, Brent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I've been doing Coast to Coast for a while.

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Speaker 1: I did an original Coast to Coast with Art Bell

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Speaker 1: back in ninety six. This is, of course, right when

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Speaker 1: Dark Skies was debuting, right, And what I thought was

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Speaker 1: so interesting about it is the appearance I did with

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Speaker 1: Art Bell was just a couple of weeks after jc

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Speaker 1: Krashtar party and a week after he brought his superior

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Speaker 1: officer out to the office. And yet if you listen

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Speaker 1: to the interview I did with Art Bell on Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast, that never comes up. He wouldn't have thought

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Speaker 1: to ask about it, and even though I had just

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Speaker 1: lived through it, I didn't feel like talking about it.

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Speaker 1: I have a theory on that I'd love to hear

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Speaker 1: it at please.

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Speaker 2: Because I actually don't remember us discussing or war gaming.

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Speaker 2: What is Bryce going to say on art Bell Show.

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Speaker 2: My guess is that your instinct at that time was

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Speaker 2: similar to mine, And I'll call it the Strieber conundrum. Right,

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Speaker 2: if you're a Hollywood writer of fiction and you start

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Speaker 2: talking about really strange true stories set in the UFO universe,

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Speaker 2: people are just going to assume you're making everything up.

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Speaker 2: And then you get into terms like, oh, he's an

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Speaker 2: inside man, he's part of the propaganda problem. Whatever the

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Speaker 2: case is, there's a credibility issue when people who work

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Speaker 2: in Hollywood start telling what they insist are true stories.

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Speaker 2: And I think even to this day, it's very hard,

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Speaker 2: as I think our guests today will attest to stride

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Speaker 2: that bides the fence where you're working both in fiction

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Speaker 2: and in fact.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is all one hundred percent true, and I

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Speaker 1: think there's just only one other aspect of it. It

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Speaker 1: was so fresh in my mind what had just happened,

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Speaker 1: but I was so not clear in my mind as

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Speaker 1: to why it happened or how it happened. And we,

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Speaker 1: of course were in the middle of producing the show,

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Speaker 1: so there wasn't a lot of time to think about it,

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Speaker 1: And like you said, the last thing I thought I

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Speaker 1: should be doing is opening up that, because then people

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Speaker 1: are like, wait, people would have gotten it wrong. I

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Speaker 1: heard that they were working with the Office of Naval

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Speaker 1: Intelligence on their which was not true or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: You do bring up an interesting point, which we're going

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Speaker 1: to be getting into with Dean in just a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: But this whole cover of fiction thing, which is what

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Speaker 1: Dark Skies was right. So you were saying the whole

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Speaker 1: conceit of the series, which was a dramatic piece of

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Speaker 1: fiction put on a television network, was that we were

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Speaker 1: telling the truth under the cover of fiction. And I

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Speaker 1: think what Dean will tell us is his own little

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Speaker 1: brush with that, which I find equally fascinating. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I can't wait to discuss it.

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Speaker 1: What else is on your mind these days? Are you

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Speaker 1: getting people talking to you at all about Disclosure Day?

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Speaker 1: If you heard any reaction to that.

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Speaker 2: The most common reaction I've heard is people who have

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Speaker 2: seen it were a little confused or disappointed. Their expectations

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Speaker 2: were off, and they went back to see it another

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Speaker 2: time or two, and each time they saw it they

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Speaker 2: enjoyed it more. And I think that seems to be

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Speaker 2: the kind of parabola that most people are having with

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Speaker 2: this disclosure day.

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Speaker 1: I did enjoy it more, but seeing it twice now,

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Speaker 1: the second time I enjoyed it more. I think just

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Speaker 1: because I was ready to just give in to the

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Speaker 1: experience and see if I could pick up some of

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Speaker 1: the details. It's still not a perfect film, but it's

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Speaker 1: a good film, and it's about something that I love

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Speaker 1: to talk about, so what's not to like. Okay, enough

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Speaker 1: of all this. We're going to take a short break

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Speaker 1: here with which allows our friends at iHeart to keep

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Speaker 1: the lights on and the MIC's hot for us, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll be back with the Dean of the Ufology,

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Speaker 1: Dean Alioto stand by.

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Speaker 2: I'm Brent Friedman. Years ago, a family friend who became

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Speaker 2: a cabinet member in the Reagan administration disclosed to me

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Speaker 2: that aliens are real. They're here, and he'd seen them.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bryce is Abel. Later, when we were producing Dark Skies,

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Speaker 1: an NBCTV series about an alien invasion, we were approached

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Speaker 1: by men who said they were from the Office of

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Speaker 1: Naval Intelligence and they wanted to give us inside information

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Speaker 1: in exchange for access to our show.

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Speaker 2: We didn't take that deal, but we have never stopped

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Speaker 2: thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: That's why we do this podcast. We're working out ideas

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Speaker 1: in real time about how Hollywood is portrayed aliens and why.

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Speaker 2: Every episode is different because there are so many questions.

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Speaker 1: We're looking for answers. It's an active investigation. Let's do

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Speaker 1: this together. Dean. I want to welcome you to the show.

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Speaker 1: You're not only in the club, but now you're on

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Speaker 1: the sound, light and frequency club. So thanks for being here.

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Speaker 3: Sorry one second, Steven, right now, and I will get

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Speaker 3: to it. You did not get read in.

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Speaker 1: I get that.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be telling them I got your back, brother. Okay,

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Speaker 4: Now I'm gonna unmute.

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Speaker 1: Okay, by I love it. Okay, listen, if in fact

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Speaker 1: you can pick up the phone and call mister Spielberg,

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Speaker 1: please invite him on the show. Listen, this is an issue.

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Speaker 1: We might as well just talk about it. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because Brent has had that experience with Toby Hooper, and

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Speaker 1: I know you heard the essence of that story, and

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Speaker 1: yet you don't think there's any evidence I gathered that

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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg ever got read into anything. Is that pretty

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Speaker 1: much accurate? Yea.

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Speaker 3: The first thing, the first rule of Fight Club you're

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Speaker 3: going to call back for me is not to talk

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 4: It's that I don't know anything.

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Speaker 3: So with that in mind, the only thing I do

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Speaker 3: know is that I have this on the back of

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Speaker 3: my phone, which is Mayflower and in the movie Close Encounters,

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Speaker 3: I'm a total geek.

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Speaker 4: Close Encounters a third kind.

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Speaker 3: That was a program that Lacombe fon TUFO was heading out.

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Speaker 3: And what I did in preper for this is I

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Speaker 3: read every single thing I can get my hand on

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Speaker 3: online offline.

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Speaker 4: I read diaries. I read Spielberg's book which might have

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Speaker 4: been written by him. The adaptation.

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Speaker 3: Tarantino seems to think he had a ghost writer, possibly,

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Speaker 3: which was done a lot back then, and looking at

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Speaker 3: it and reverse engineering and looking at all the drafts,

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Speaker 3: we've got basically Paul Schrader, who does the first draft.

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Speaker 3: He's the one that introduces the spirituality aspect of it,

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Speaker 3: so everyone is contributing to this. He did read, obviously

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Speaker 3: Heineck's work, because that's where he got the title, and

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Speaker 3: I think it cost him ten or twenty thousand that

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Speaker 3: he was to donate to Heinick's organization and brought him

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Speaker 3: on set.

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Speaker 4: There's a little bit of.

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Speaker 3: A time bend with regards to was Jacques flat influenced

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Speaker 3: was an influence for the character Lacom or did that

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Speaker 3: character already exist because there are some drafts where time

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Speaker 3: wise there's maybe a discrepancy there. So when I look

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Speaker 3: at all of what was available then at the time,

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Speaker 3: and I look at allultimately what the message is the

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Speaker 3: only thing that is a slight bump. But again, this

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Speaker 3: was written. There were conspiracies way back when, and some

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Speaker 3: of it's born out not to be conspiracies, like Lockheed Martin.

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Speaker 3: The fact they had boxes there is kind of like,

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Speaker 3: uh okay, because that factor is heavy into the partitioning

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Speaker 3: out the technology to independent companies so that the government

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Speaker 3: doesn't have to disclose.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: The thing that's interesting is that, and this is the

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Speaker 3: only thing that gave me pause, is that.

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Speaker 4: Brent got the first hand.

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Speaker 3: And so now that's jacked up my whole big thing

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Speaker 3: because I as an independent filmmaker, my job. Half my

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Speaker 3: job is looking for funding and any check that I've

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Speaker 3: ever gotten for from the government has bounced. I'm always

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Speaker 3: looking for financing sources. No one's come to me, and

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Speaker 3: I've been at this since nineteen eighty nine. So the

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Speaker 3: one thing I know about Toby Hooper is when he

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Speaker 3: did the movie Poltergeist, he was working off Spielberg's storyboards

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Speaker 3: a lot of it, and I think John Lenette was

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Speaker 3: the and John said there was like phone Core, which

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Speaker 3: is sheet would but made out of foam, and it

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Speaker 3: would have all the storyboards. So the look of that

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Speaker 3: Toby Hooper version of Poltergeist is a Spielberg movie. Those

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Speaker 3: shots I know as a director, I've studied, reverse engineered

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Speaker 3: all that, so not that was kind of hidden, but

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Speaker 3: I know that there is some overlap there. So what

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Speaker 3: does that mean back to the first Fichael, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm confused by this, Brent. It's throwing a

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Speaker 3: wrench into it that Toby would say that, because a

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Speaker 3: lot of times people say stuff based on their belief.

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Speaker 3: But did Spielberg actually say yes, I was reading, and

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Speaker 3: you're not supposed to say that.

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Speaker 1: So Brent, you should probably tell Discatch people real quickly

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Speaker 1: if they're joining us in progress, what it was that

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Speaker 1: Toby Hooper told you. And by the way, before you

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Speaker 1: do that, even John Leonetti, does that ring a bell

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Speaker 1: for you? It does?

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Speaker 2: Yes, in fact, yeah, he John Lenetti was promoted to

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Speaker 2: director of the infamous Mortal Kombat Annihilation movie that Bryce

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Speaker 2: and I wrote, and I should have asked John when

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Speaker 2: I had access to him about his Poltergeist experience. That

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Speaker 2: sounds interesting, although I have heard those rumors as well.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like rumors though, so really quickly, I

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Speaker 2: think context is important to the conversation that I had

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Speaker 2: with Toby Hooper preceded Bryce and I being offered a

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Speaker 2: deal with the Office of Naval Intelligence because we were

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Speaker 2: still scouting the pilot. And yeah, I was with Toby

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Speaker 2: Hooper and the right after doing a scout up in

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Speaker 2: New Hall Ranch. And what happened was we were sitting

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Speaker 2: in a roadhouse having lunch together. Well, everyone else in

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Speaker 2: the scouting team was off talking about logistics and actually working,

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Speaker 2: and Toby and I were just shooting the breeze. And

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Speaker 2: I said to him, knowing that he had what he

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Speaker 2: had told me was a competitive, friendly, competitive relationship with Steven,

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Speaker 2: I said, you're finally going to have something over on Stephen.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, what's that? And I said, you're going

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Speaker 2: to be the first one to put a crop circle

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Speaker 2: on film. He hasn't done that. And he said, I'm

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Speaker 2: never going to be ahead of Stephen in this category

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Speaker 2: and I was like, what do you mean, and he said,

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Speaker 2: after Jaws, he was approached by some intelligence people, I

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Speaker 2: think naval intelligence, and he was so successful they offered

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Speaker 2: him a deal to get information for influence and he

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Speaker 2: took it. And Close Encounters is apparently based on a

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Speaker 2: true story or some true story elements, and same with

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Speaker 2: ET and I was taken aback by that. This is

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Speaker 2: completely shocking to me. And then the only thing that

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Speaker 2: surpassed that shock was when you and I got offered

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Speaker 2: a deal by naval intelligence. The whole thing just seemed

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Speaker 2: incredibly strange and prophetic. I will say this just add

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Speaker 2: one more log to the fire. Here we have an

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Speaker 2: upcoming episode where someone else heard the same story that

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Speaker 2: I did from Toby Hooper. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And by the way, Brent Janori, one of the

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Speaker 1: first questions he asked me was about that. And I

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Speaker 1: attempted to do an impression of you doing an impression

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Speaker 1: of Toby Hooper, and I had to abandon that because

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Speaker 1: I wasn't very good at it. But it is interesting

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Speaker 1: to hear that story, Dean. It doesn't really matter the

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Speaker 1: truth of it is almost everything that's in there. He

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Speaker 1: could have also gotten out of the context of books

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Speaker 1: and the people he talked to.

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Speaker 3: I would imagine, Yeah, it's interesting because you have to

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Speaker 3: hold both in the hand, and it's like the scales,

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Speaker 3: which one is coming up or down. When I look

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Speaker 3: at ET, I know because I'm a total geek azoid

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Speaker 3: that Et was based on a first draft of this

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Speaker 3: script that he was doing, which was going to be

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Speaker 3: about the was it not the Kenningberg The.

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Speaker 4: Story in nineteen was nineteen fifties.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Kentucky, I think, yes, thank you, where the family

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Speaker 3: gets assaulted, and so he was going to do this

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Speaker 3: because it was interested in that. The thing with Stephen

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Speaker 3: is that he's got Stephen mister Spielberg, is that he's

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Speaker 3: got this side to him because he was a prankster

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Speaker 3: when he was kid, and he loves horror stories and

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Speaker 3: so hence Poltergeist.

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Speaker 4: Which he co wrote.

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Speaker 1: And so if I think Steve calling.

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Speaker 2: There, he doesn't like this, he doesn't like where this

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Speaker 2: conversation is, You're going to have.

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Speaker 1: To just tell him that we are busy talking about him.

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Speaker 4: That was my ring tone for Steven.

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Speaker 3: So what happens is is that you have someone who

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Speaker 3: who in this case is I reverse engineer this, so

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Speaker 3: I go, Okay. Spielberg, when he was going to do

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Speaker 3: Twilight Zone the movie, he was going to do one

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Speaker 3: called Trick or Treat, and in this episode it was

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Speaker 3: going to be that these kids are coming and there's

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Speaker 3: this grumpy old guy and trick or treat put a

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Speaker 3: stone in our rock in the bag and stuff and

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Speaker 3: instigate this. And so these tricker treaters would come and

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Speaker 3: he goes to open the door to trick them or whatever,

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Speaker 3: and the masks that they're wearing aren't masks and they're actually.

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Speaker 4: These brilliant fun but it's a little too dark.

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Speaker 3: So he ends up doing Kick the Can, which was

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Speaker 3: a remake of the classic episode.

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Speaker 4: So Spielberg has that sideer's got that edge.

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Speaker 3: So he was going to do this story and the

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Speaker 3: family being attacked, but he found this one character in

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Speaker 3: the script that he really enjoyed, and so he took

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Speaker 3: that character and made him into the movie. Et and

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Speaker 3: so ET wasn't written by Spielberg. It was inspired, but

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Speaker 3: Melissa Matheson correct wrote.

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Speaker 1: It ready Harrison Ford at the time.

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Speaker 3: I'm yes, and no relation to Richard Matheson, But so

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Speaker 3: I don't see anything in that is extra sauce in

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Speaker 3: the phenomenon, So I'm kind of going, Okay, where's that,

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Speaker 3: And then we can talk about Disclosure Day again, not

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Speaker 3: too much that we haven't already seen. It's good for

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Speaker 3: the public to kind of catch up because like the

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Speaker 3: word experiencer is mentioned twice twenty minutes in and sixty

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Speaker 3: three minutes in the first time in a Hollywood film.

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Speaker 4: Thank you Steve much.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm listening to this podcast

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Speaker 3: called What Went Wrong, and it's about making movies, and

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Speaker 3: they covered Independence Day and Independence Day. They wanted to

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Speaker 3: work with the military because it would get all these

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Speaker 3: free props and everything, and the military had a list

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Speaker 3: of things. They first of all, felt like the military

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Speaker 3: guys weren't taken too serious in the fact that Will

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Speaker 3: Smith's character was engaged to a stripper.

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Speaker 4: They didn't come into that. Didn't like it.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things that they had, among other things,

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Speaker 3: was the Area fifty one. They said, you can't do that,

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Speaker 3: you can't have that in here. We're tired of being

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Speaker 3: hassled about Area fifty one. Please remove that whole nonsense,

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Speaker 3: they said, right, quote unquote. That was the final straw

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Speaker 3: that broke the camel's back, and Dean Devlin, who was

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Speaker 3: the co.

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Speaker 1: Writer another great beam.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah with Roland Emrick said go f yourself. We're

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Speaker 3: gonna go ahead and do this. However, when Transformers came around,

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Speaker 3: they went all right, let's give them full on and

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Speaker 3: let's cooperate and everything. So, like anything in this field,

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Speaker 3: some of it's true, some of its shade of true,

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Speaker 3: and some of it's not.

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Speaker 1: So listen, we should let's talk about your movie forget.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who this Spielberg guy is that he

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Speaker 1: should command so much of our attention. It is interesting

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Speaker 1: that you point out he uses the word experience or

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Speaker 1: twice in the film and what he is in essence saying,

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Speaker 1: besides just giving the word a different value, he's saying, hey, folks,

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Speaker 1: in addition to all the stuff about lights in the

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Speaker 1: sky and orbs and things like that, there's this whole

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Speaker 1: thing that we've swept under the rug in polite conversation,

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Speaker 1: even in eufology, which is people that have experienced things. Now, Brent,

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Speaker 1: you're an experiencer yourself, maybe not of the type in

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Speaker 1: Dean's new movie, which is called I Believe the Experiencers

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Speaker 1: Full disclosure.

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Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, half disclosure was taken, so I had to

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Speaker 3: go full disclosure.

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Speaker 1: I listen. I guess my question is do you think

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Speaker 1: that your film is breaking ground or are you reaching

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Speaker 1: a different audience. I think I'm asking rather than the

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Speaker 1: people like Brent and I and people who listen to

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Speaker 1: us often know abductees and experiencers. They know UFOs and UAP,

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Speaker 1: we know the terminology things like that. But were you

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Speaker 1: reaching past those of us in the sort of the

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Speaker 1: euthological movement to a larger audience.

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Speaker 3: Well, the challenge of representing anything in this field, and

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Speaker 3: that goes with podcasters or radio hosts filmmakers, is you're

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Speaker 3: serving two masters. You're serving the UFO community, which knows

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Speaker 3: pretty much everything under the sun with regards to what

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Speaker 3: the latest and greatest is right, and so they're always

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Speaker 3: clamoring for it, give me ne mic drops, and so

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Speaker 3: you got to service them, and you have to give

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Speaker 3: them mic drops. Then the bigger audience is the general public,

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Speaker 3: which you're doing two things. One is you're saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: catch up, there's a lot that's been going on since

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Speaker 3: I'm sure the last time that you've checked in here,

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Speaker 3: And the other is aspect is to inspire them, and

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Speaker 3: so if you're UFO curious, this should hopefully get you

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Speaker 3: to say, Okay, hold on, what's going on here? Maybe

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Speaker 3: I'm going to investigate a little bit more. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to look more into this. And so for me, that

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Speaker 3: was the main audience because there's the echo chamber effect

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Speaker 3: that we have. But I wanted to do something because

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Speaker 3: I was on Richard Dolan show and I only mentioned

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Speaker 3: that guy because I've never heard of this Richard Dole

386
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Speaker 3: ever heard of again you just call him RD because

387
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Speaker 3: he said this is so weird because there hasn't been

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Speaker 3: a documentary with about experiencers in years, and it used

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Speaker 3: to be The Dajure, definitely with John Mack in the

390
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Speaker 3: mid to late nineties. And so I looked at it

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Speaker 3: and again I didn't intend on doing any of this, guys,

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Speaker 3: because of my film, the McPherson tape. I went for

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Speaker 3: the twenty fifth anniversary. I went back to the same

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Speaker 3: UFO convention where it was shown without my knowledge, without

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Speaker 3: the credits as the real McCoy, which Lieutenant Colonel Don

396
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Speaker 3: Ware came out and said this is real, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: And I had to go that forced.

398
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Speaker 3: Me to go on national TV to debunk my own movie,

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Speaker 3: because I don't need UFO researchers having to take on

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Speaker 3: any more crap that's out there.

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Speaker 1: I hold that thought for a second, though, because let's

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Speaker 1: finish up experiences and then pull vault back in time

403
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Speaker 1: to the We've actually got a clip of your new documentary,

404
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Speaker 1: which I think would be great if we could just

405
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Speaker 1: play it now, and then we'll come back and we'll

406
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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more. So let's take a lore

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Speaker 1: for that.

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Speaker 2: You will not be anxious or distract I can remember everything,

409
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Speaker 2: and you will tell me everything.

410
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Speaker 4: I just thought it was a dream, didn't really think

411
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Speaker 4: anything of it.

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Speaker 3: But apparently it's not common to have identical dreams with siblings.

413
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Speaker 4: They took us and they hurt us.

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Speaker 6: It's not easy to talk about. That was the greatest

415
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Speaker 6: fear I've ever experienced. What do you remember from that

416
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Speaker 6: moment on? When I regained consciousness, I didn't know where

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Speaker 6: I was.

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Speaker 4: I felt like I was dying.

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Speaker 7: There's something profoundly important going on here.

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Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like this before.

421
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Speaker 3: I find them compelling and I find them believable.

422
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Speaker 7: They seem to pick people who are particularly strong, stable,

423
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Speaker 7: open minded.

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Speaker 2: I'm an experiencer.

425
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Speaker 1: I'm an experiencer, I had experiences.

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Speaker 7: What has happened to these people is what they say

427
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Speaker 7: has happened to them, even though I fully recognize that

428
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Speaker 7: that's not possible in the worldview in which they and

429
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Speaker 7: I were raised.

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Speaker 4: For a long time, I was very dismissive of abductees,

431
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Speaker 4: which is.

432
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Speaker 8: A weird thing.

433
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Speaker 4: Do not believe when I believe UFOs appealed. We don't

434
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Speaker 4: know what happened to us, and it goes beyond what

435
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Speaker 4: we know or don't know about them.

436
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we have a even stretched a surface

437
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Speaker 1: in all science fiction of what aliens could be.

438
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 8: Like, it's theater, What have any blinking lights?

439
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 4: That's the show.

440
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 8: That's the show. Why are these alien beings abducting people?

441
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: It wants to be seen. It wants us to be

442
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: aware of it.

443
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,479
Speaker 5: UFOs and aliens or they may be be us in

444
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 5: the future.

445
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: Time travel or the interdimensional.

446
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 3: Watching, lurking stalking.

447
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 6: Be very simple to eliminate us.

448
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 4: The entire universe has some kind of intelligence to it.

449
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 5: What can we learn through the lens of science and

450
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 5: then all the mysteries that surround it.

451
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 6: He says, you don't have any reasons to see your praise.

452
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 7: You.

453
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: Well, that certainly got my attention. I just wanted to

454
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: say a shout out to Dave Foley, who's in there,

455
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: who's part of the Lunch Club by the way, But

456
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: also because he said something that I think has been

457
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: hanging around this subject for so long, and it's the

458
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: simplest thing around, which is he was always skeptical of

459
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: people that said they'd been abducted or now experiencers, and

460
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: yet he believed in UFOs. I think that is one

461
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: of the cleanest issues that's out there, and I think

462
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: that's really what your documentary addresses for people. It says,

463
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: forget about the lights for a second, let's talk about

464
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: the rest of it.

465
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. One of the things that I've been saying there could.

466
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 3: Be like a jump cuts or super cuts of it,

467
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 3: is the hearings have been focusing on the elephant's tail,

468
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 3: but no one's talking about the elephant in the room.

469
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: And we're there now because we can only talk about

470
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: nuts and bolts for so long, which is important, not

471
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: saying it isn't, but at some point we have to

472
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 3: talk about why these nhis non human intelligent beings are

473
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 3: doing swing buys.

474
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 4: On our planet.

475
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: Maybe it's for in and out burger, but you can

476
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 3: only hit that a few times and you.

477
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 4: Go, y, it's I got it. It's good. Maybe I'll

478
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 4: get animal style next time.

479
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 3: So it's really more of we need to ask why

480
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 3: they're swinging by here, what's going on, and we need

481
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: to look at certain data points. We keep pointing it

482
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 3: to data when it comes to the nuts and bolts.

483
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 3: But as an example, in nineteen ninety two, there was

484
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 3: a roper pole which was taken and they asked five

485
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 3: different questions in their poll to determine if people might

486
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: have been taken based on certain things, whether it's sleep

487
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 3: paralysis with something in the room, missing time, et cetera.

488
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 3: They found one in fifty showed more than one displayed

489
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: or acknowledged more than one of these things. If I

490
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: take that and I add that and do math, which

491
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 3: hurts my brain, Believe me, I don't want to do it.

492
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 4: But it came out to three.

493
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 3: Point seven million people on the planet that possibly could

494
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 3: be experiencers to that degree. And so even if you

495
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: shave off two thirds of that, you're still looking at

496
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 3: over a million people over the years. And so that

497
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: and along with the other belief that the experiencers are done,

498
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 3: that they're no longer being abducted, that people aren't being taken.

499
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 3: You'll see in this documentary we've got two young sisters

500
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 3: where it's still going.

501
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 4: On, folks. Yeah.

502
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

503
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: Circling back to the point you made Bryce about Dave

504
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: Foley's quote, it's always struck me that with regards to

505
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: abductions and just actually the existence of alias, the idea

506
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: that they would be here but maybe not abducting. I

507
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 2: think it's a fear fantasy thing. I think the fantasy

508
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: is we're not alone. There's an intelligent life out there,

509
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: and if they haven't done an Independence Day on us,

510
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: then maybe they're here to help us, and boy do

511
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: we need help, right, So that's the fantasy. The fear is, oh, wait,

512
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: they're going to hurt me. They're going to come into

513
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: my home while I'm sleeping and they're gonna take me

514
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: and they're going to do things to me. I don't

515
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: like that part of it. I'm much more interested in

516
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 2: the other part. So I think that's why a lot

517
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: of people don't want to go there.

518
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: Right now.

519
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that's Dave Foley's opinion. I'm just saying

520
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: I think when I've talked to people, abductions make people uncomfortable, right,

521
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: and so that's the darker senior side of the phenomenon.

522
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: Another thing that I think is fascinating is with regards

523
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: to the why. The question becomes in my mind, there's

524
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: eight billion humans on the planet and if your math

525
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: is correct, and certainly I'm not going to challenge it,

526
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: it could be millions of people who are experiencing this phenomenon.

527
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: Are they all just making it up? And by the way,

528
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: I would even say that could be a very concerns

529
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: servative number because as we know, a lot of people

530
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 2: aren't honest in a poll. A lot of people wouldn't

531
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 2: even actually disclose in any shape or form because they

532
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: can't even probably admit it to themselves that they had

533
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 2: something traumatic happen. So if we're talking millions of people

534
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: out there, are they all just hallucinating and they're all

535
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: having a version of the same hallucination? Okay, if that's

536
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: the case, can we examine that? Can we come up

537
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: with a logical explanation for that?

538
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: So, Dean, I'm going to put it to you. Then

539
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: if Let's say that your number is a conservative number,

540
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: in which case we pull vault to millions. But you

541
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: said three points, say it's five. Whatever. What in the

542
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: world would any nhi let alone maybe multiples want with

543
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: that many people. When Betty and Barney first happened, I

544
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: remember first hearing about it, and I believe my mother

545
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: had read the Look or Life magazine excerpts Look Magazine,

546
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: Look magazine, Excuse me, and we were talking about it

547
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: and just saying, if they're really visitors from elsewhere, they're

548
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: doing medical experiments because they want to understand the flora

549
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: and the fauna kind of thing. But you don't do

550
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: that with many millions of people. So what's your take.

551
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: You've thought about this a long time. What do you

552
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: think is going on?

553
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: There were certain bumps for me that when I went

554
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: into this, as I was mentioning before, with the first

555
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: film that I did that just happened to be the

556
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: found foot film that happened to be about aliens. That

557
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: kind of got me indoctrinated into the phenomenon club, if

558
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: you will.

559
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: And so for the.

560
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: Anniversary, went back to the convention that it was shown

561
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: and believed to be real, and I went up and

562
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: dig a Ted talk talking about how I felt like

563
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 3: I was forced gumping all this. I'm not that clever, guys.

564
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: It just happened, and I got dragged along with it.

565
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: And so I started meeting people at a convention, my

566
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 3: first UFO convention ever, and I started meeting highly credible

567
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: people and academics.

568
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 4: From Harvard, Carnegie, Mellon, Montana.

569
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 3: Tech who were looking at this, maybe not saying they

570
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: know everything that's going on. I don't think anyone really

571
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: does to the length that we want, but they had

572
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: hypothesis that seem to resonate and make sense. One of them,

573
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: which we feature in the documentary is the extra Tempestrial

574
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: hypothesis by doctor Michael la Masters, and his is that

575
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 3: they're from the future. It's just one aspect that we

576
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: look at. We look at everything. It's a menu where

577
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: you can pick whatever you want. But I'm going to

578
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: give you some options, and I'm going to give you

579
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: a special to day if you're nice. And so basically

580
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 3: what happens is you are looking at this and I

581
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: go for me, because first and foremost, when you do

582
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 3: these shows and everything, you have a list of things

583
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: that you want to answer it's your curiosity. That's the

584
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: reason why we're filmmakers is curiosity. And so I'm like,

585
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: I need to know two things. I want to know

586
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 3: why it's taking them so long to figure out the

587
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: anatomy of a human? Why do they keep doing this?

588
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 3: And then other things are little trivial things like what's

589
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 3: with the quote unquote anal probe?

590
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 4: What the hell is that about?

591
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 3: And so when I got Michael Masters and he was

592
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: talking about how being an anthropological biologist, he has studied

593
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 3: animals and studied mankind from the earliest stages and project

594
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: us out and he says, but it's not an anal probe,

595
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: it's a stool sample.

596
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: And I go, wait, what do you mean?

597
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 3: He says, when we tag a bear, we don't give

598
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: a laxative to a bear and wait around for it

599
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 3: to evacuates bowels. We go in and we have a

600
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: device that basically takes it in the shape it's in,

601
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: because that's part of getting an accurate reading as well.

602
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: And so that's what's probably going on.

603
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: And then everything changes when you start getting into the

604
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: hybrid program. Now we're looking at something that's just not

605
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 3: doing a swing buy and taking samples and stuff. Now

606
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 3: we're looking at something that literally is boy, there's no

607
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: easy way to put this, but it's the hybridization of

608
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: these beings, whether they're us, are there from another planet,

609
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: or whatever, but it's merging this together for some operation.

610
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: And so one of my questions to Michael was and

611
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: I couldn't use in the documentary because his response was

612
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 3: total Michael masters, which is I said, hey, how come

613
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: there's no reptilian hybrids? Are mantis hybrids? No one talks

614
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: about that? And he says, yes. That furthers my case

615
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: that these gray aliens are us from the future. Because

616
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: you can diddle a sheep all day long, you're not

617
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: going to get a sheep man because and we can't

618
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 3: mate with our primates that are chimpanzees and everything. So

619
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: it's too big of an ass technology wise for us

620
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: to be able to do that unless they have advanced

621
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 3: technology where they.

622
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: Can do that.

623
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 4: But there's something going on.

624
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: And so every time I've gone to an experience or

625
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: support group, I ask Yvonne Smith, and I ask all

626
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: of her experiences, why why are they doing this operation,

627
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: this hybrid operation?

628
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 4: What is it?

629
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: What is it?

630
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: And she says, we don't know, we don't know if

631
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 3: it's for them or for us, but she says, we

632
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: suspect it's both of us, because you wouldn't be that

633
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: committed to save some civilization that really doesn't affect you

634
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: to that extent that this operation is. And so if

635
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: it is, then from the future, and that makes sense

636
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: because they're trying to save themselves.

637
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 4: And then sorry, this is the long answer, guys. One

638
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 4: last thing.

639
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, whenever the experiencers talk about the two messages that

640
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 3: they get, and we know we've heard these messages over

641
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: and over again, they're always the same, which is your

642
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 3: technology isn't helping you.

643
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 4: Now, yes, it's.

644
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: Got to be nuclear weapons, absolutely, but I think it's

645
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: even more so these I think the smartphone and everything

646
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: we're doing in AI that's coming that is not going

647
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 3: to it seems helpful first, but it's not ultimately going

648
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: to lead there. And so if that is a technology,

649
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: so we have to put a pause on that.

650
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 4: But the other thing they say is.

651
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 3: You're screwing up your planet. And to prove this to you,

652
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: we're going to show you a slide show. And in

653
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: this slide show, you're going to see trees that have

654
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: been scorched, You're going to see gray skies, You're going

655
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 3: to see cities that have fallen to the wayside. And

656
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: so my question is where is this footage coming from.

657
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: Is this footage that they actually have acquired and are

658
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: playing for us?

659
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: Is it?

660
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: Ai? So?

661
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: And then just to put a little tail on this thing,

662
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: why are they showing this to us if we can't

663
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: change the future. So this is letting this to me

664
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 3: as they're saying, look, you can change this. This is

665
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: where you're heading right now, but you can change this.

666
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 3: So that's the most hopeful thing that I take out

667
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 3: of that, glean out of that. And so then my

668
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: question whenever I go to these convention stuff, as I say, guys,

669
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: I think maybe what we need to do is we

670
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: need to shift our focus that this isn't just a

671
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 3: phenomenon for a two species meeting. This is a call

672
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 3: to action, and so why don't we look at environmental

673
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 3: issues and politicians that are leaning towards there because this

674
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 3: is us, this is our planet.

675
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 4: And that's sorry, I'm just going on and on.

676
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 3: But lastly, when people think that technology is going to

677
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 3: save our ass and we can go to another planet,

678
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: we're not going to find another planet now, No, not

679
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 3: like this.

680
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 4: Where are we going to get it?

681
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: Where our actual gravity is exactly the same, the days

682
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: are the same, the hours of distance.

683
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 4: It's too big an ask.

684
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: Because we cover movies here, I couldn't. I can't let

685
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: you say what you just said and not point out

686
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: I wrote a movie called Official Denial that aired in

687
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three that was all about UFOs and it

688
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: was about them being us from the future. So I

689
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: have to stay claim to at least thirty three years

690
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: ago having stated that, and literally in that film, I

691
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: have the alien in part through some kind of telepathic

692
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: thing to a human exactly what you said. All this

693
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: footage right the whole idea of the film at the

694
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: end week because it was a time travel film at

695
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: its heart, and there were many meetings with You can

696
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: only imagine the meetings with executives going now, wait a minute,

697
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: what And then finally one day it might have been me,

698
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: it might have been an executive, but somebody just went

699
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: the future is unwritten, and everybody went, oh, oh, that

700
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: makes the movie makes sense, And we convinced ourselves that

701
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: was the case, and that they were here because they

702
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: needed to save themselves, and they in order to save themselves,

703
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: they had to save us. And so I keep an

704
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: open mind about that. But the time when I wrote that,

705
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: to be completely honest to me, it wasn't out of

706
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: conviction that this is what is going on. It was

707
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: out of a conviction this is a good movie. This

708
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: has a there's a twilight Zone twist for the final

709
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: several minutes of the film kind of thing.

710
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: Anyway, I have two very important things to say, yes

711
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: you do. The first is that if you listen to

712
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 2: this show, you know I like finding strange connections. It's

713
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 2: just one of my favorite things. And I there's a

714
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: connection here that I want to surface. Dean in your

715
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: movie The McPherson Tapes, and Bryce in your movie Official Denial.

716
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 2: You guys both not you, but each of those movies

717
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 2: used kids in costumes to be the aliens. And you

718
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: know who else did Steven Spielberg in Close Encounters of

719
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 2: the Third Kind.

720
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: It's a new club.

721
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: It's a new club, another one that I'm not included in.

722
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: And by the way, what I think is most fascinating

723
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 2: about that is that he has gone on record as

724
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: saying that he made that choice specifically to represent aliens

725
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: that were unfamiliar but non threatening.

726
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: So yeah.

727
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 4: And also they were androgynists. Yes, they're at a certain age.

728
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: And I absolutely cop to the fact that I nick

729
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 3: that I took it from Spielberg.

730
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 4: It was like, that makes Yeah, why wouldn't you? Yeah,

731
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 4: why mess with a formula that's worse.

732
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, next super important thing that I want to say

733
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 2: is just that I love as a writer contemplating this.

734
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: It's us from the future idea, and in a weird way,

735
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: that's the most comforting. Right, It's okay, you guys know

736
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: a lot, come back and help us up, get us

737
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 2: out of this mess. Right, you're invested in us.

738
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 4: Right.

739
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: The one thing I will say, though, that complicates this

740
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 2: is that, and I'm Dean, you know this is as

741
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: well as we do, because we just did an episode

742
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: about this, is that certain experiencers do not report seeing grays.

743
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: It's not the grays who abducted them. And for instance,

744
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: Travis Walton, even though in the movie it depicts grays

745
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: or what looks like grays if I'm correct, he was

746
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: abducted by Nordics or something that what he would describe

747
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,959
Speaker 2: as Nordics. And so this brings up the question mark

748
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: for me, is it all true? Are there aliens from

749
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: the future coming back that also have other aliens from

750
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: other planets possibly and interdimensional entities? And basically, is the

751
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: bar at tattooing right? What is going on here? There

752
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 2: isn't a silver bullet solution to this in my mind,

753
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: at least I haven't heard it yet.

754
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: I'm because Dean, you brought us a clip that that's

755
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: from your documentary that hasn't been seen before. So why

756
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: don't you set that up? Let's play that and then

757
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: let's talk about it.

758
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 4: Did my lawyers agree to this? Shocking? Shocking?

759
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine it, but we're going to play it anyway.

760
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: So, from what I understand in interviewing Travis, there were

761
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 3: the Nordics, but the way the Nordics appeared was the

762
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 3: second act for Travis's abduction. First there were the little guys,

763
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 3: and then that's when, and then he talks about how,

764
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 3: and we get into some of it, but.

765
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 4: Not all the details.

766
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: But as an example, he wakes up when we talk

767
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 3: about that, he wakes up and he sees these beans

768
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 3: and they're frustrated because they're trying to effectuate some form

769
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 3: of mental telepathy. It's not working, and he he grabs

770
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: these utensils that are next to the table and he

771
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 3: gets off the table and he's swinging this around, threatening them,

772
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 3: and these little guys take off and he describes him

773
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: as being that, and then the Nordic guy comes in, Hey,

774
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 3: he settled down. I'm just like you. But they're not vibing.

775
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 3: And so that's a whole other thing. So when I

776
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: go to interview Travis and again in the documentary, I

777
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: wanted to do something that I saw firsthand with James

778
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: Fox as I consulted on the phenomenon, And what James

779
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 3: had done brilliantly was he showed the classic stories the

780
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 3: history of UAPs, catching us up to date, and so

781
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: I wanted to do the same thing. But I wanted

782
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 3: to go back to these classic cases like Terry Lovelace

783
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 3: as well, who's relatively new comparatively, and Deborah Jordan Cobble

784
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: have her in there, and Barney and Betty Hill, but

785
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 3: find new things, right. And one of the things I

786
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 3: found was something that Travis just came out. I'm not

787
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 3: sure even what the answer what the question was that

788
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 3: I asked him, but I think what I said is

789
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: I said a lot of these start early in childhood

790
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: and then people forget about that, and then later on

791
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 3: they're taken again. And he starts telling me, and this

792
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: is twenty eighteen nineteen when I did this interview. He

793
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 3: starts telling me about this experience that he had when

794
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: he was a kid, and this is the clip.

795
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: Let's see that.

796
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 6: The being that came to me as a small child

797
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 6: was dressed pretty much the same way that Betty Hill's

798
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 6: beings were which occurred after that in terms of dates.

799
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 6: So I couldn't have been inspired by her tales because

800
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 6: as a matter of fact, I didn't even recognize this

801
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 6: being as an alien. It was a little man, as

802
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 6: the way I described it to my siblings, just a

803
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 6: little man with a large head and big eyes. And

804
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 6: to a little kid, an alien was like a purple

805
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 6: people leader, you know, sort of a cartoon's character. Nobody

806
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 6: described grays or use the term aliens. Were maybe a

807
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 6: human looking being with antanna coming out of the top

808
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 6: of their head. But this was a very real experience

809
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 6: to me. I did my best to explain to my

810
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 6: and convince my siblings that this really happened, and they

811
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 6: remember that to this day. Fifty years later, but they

812
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 6: still think maybe I had a dream. It's not a dream, Dean.

813
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: That Wow, it blows my mind because I see why

814
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: you didn't put it in though, because you're trying to

815
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: talk to people about Travis and his woodcutter crew out

816
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: there and he gets abducted in nineteen seventy five. But

817
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: here he is saying, yeah, I saw these creatures back

818
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: when I was a little kid, and suddenly now it

819
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: asked us to draw some kind of connection between Travis

820
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: as a kid and why this would happen in nineteen

821
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: seventy five. And I'm just kind of curious. You've been

822
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: sitting with this for a while. A has he said this?

823
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: I've not heard him say this before. Has he said

824
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: it before? And what do you think about it? How

825
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: did these things connect?

826
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 3: He just recently talked about it and just very superficially

827
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 3: like he remembers something happening there.

828
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: But I had more of a bite here more.

829
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 1: Thank you to it. Yeah, yeah, and thank your lawyers,

830
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: by the way, thank them.

831
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 3: I will, and I appreciate the hundred thousand in the brown.

832
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 3: Yes it was more than a half, Thank you.

833
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: It was.

834
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 3: Yes, it was an issue of whether I should put

835
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 3: in there or not. And here's the thing each of

836
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: these cases, especially Terry Lovelace, is when he talks about

837
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 3: military being on craft, military officers in their twenties being

838
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 3: on craft. I could do a documentary just on that alone.

839
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: I have too much territory. And you'll see when you

840
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 3: watch the documentary that we cover so much. And then

841
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,959
Speaker 3: we've got also amazing award winning animation that's being done

842
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 3: to two by the way, is well, thank you, So

843
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: it's you know, and I also had footage of Travis

844
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 3: playing the guitar, and so it's really tough because you've

845
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 3: got to kill your darlings, as they say. And so

846
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 3: at some point I might do a compilation of like

847
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 3: special bonus features. But anyway, it was something that again

848
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: the point is that this is something that usually starts

849
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: in childhood. I'll tell you something I haven't talked about before.

850
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: This happened Sunday to me. We are coming back from

851
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 3: Martha's vineyard and right after the Fourth of July holidays,

852
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 3: and we've got this driver and he's driving, and the

853
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 3: inevitable question comes up, what do you do? And so

854
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 3: rather than say I create tiles for the shuttle, space shuttle,

855
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 3: which sometimes goes well, sometimes doesn't. I said, I do documentaries,

856
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, what do you do documentaries about?

857
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 4: And I'm with Ali, my girlfriend, and she comes out and.

858
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 3: Says UFOs and he goes, oh really, and I'm going

859
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 3: this guy's gonna pull over and go get the hell

860
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 3: out when we have two more hours. And so he said,

861
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, and I look over at

862
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: Ali and I'm like, oh, no way. And he says,

863
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, there was this figure, this

864
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 3: small figure that would sit next to me at night,

865
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: came and visited me a few times. I don't remember

866
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 3: how many times, but it was blue and it's hue,

867
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: and he was saying, Hey, don't worry about your friend

868
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 3: this or that. He's only jealous or this or that.

869
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 3: And he's literally at the time, maybe seven or eight

870
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 3: years old. He tells his mother and his mom says,

871
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: oh interesting, and then occasionally she will check in over

872
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 3: the years, Hey did you ever see that guy again?

873
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 3: So mom knows everyone else thought he was crazy. And

874
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 3: he tells me, he says, I've never told anyone that before.

875
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 3: He says, my mother is no longer alive with us.

876
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 3: So she was the only person I ever told, but.

877
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 4: He told me that.

878
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 3: Now again, this is to your point, Brent, just imagine

879
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 3: how many people are keeping this on the down low.

880
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 3: I'm constantly shocked when I mentioned this and they go, oh, yeah,

881
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 3: I saw something. And the rub is the worst part

882
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: of all of this is that I still have not

883
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: seen a UFO. And I said to Yvonne Smith, I go,

884
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: I've been working on these documentaries for nearly a decade now,

885
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: and I've got one more after this, and I don't

886
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: know if I think I'll go back to doing the

887
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 3: independent films.

888
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 4: I go, why is this happening?

889
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 3: And I said, I've come through my pass I have

890
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 3: no missing time that I'm aware of, and she laughed

891
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 3: and looked at me like an idiot, which there's evidence

892
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: to support that. And she said, Dean, they don't have

893
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 3: to knock on your door to get to you, which

894
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 3: was a whole new level of terrifying. But then I

895
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 3: started going, maybe they're like the Muse, because the MEU

896
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: for them, they've shown up time and time with you

897
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 3: guys just as long, and so there's something going on

898
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: where we're being part of the narrative. And again We're

899
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: not saying that these creatures are from the future that

900
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 3: could be intermentional.

901
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 4: It's everything on the menu.

902
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: But we keep finding that we're looking at all these

903
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 3: different aspects and present it to the audience over decades.

904
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 3: Why and so I'm still trying to answer. I don't

905
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: know if you guys have an answer on that.

906
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: So two things, and this is going to be my

907
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 2: motif here. I'm gonna always have two things to mention.

908
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: The first is that since we've been doing this show, Bryce,

909
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about it a little bit,

910
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 2: but a lot of people have come forward, both online

911
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: and in person. I got recognized a couple of times

912
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 2: in airports you're that UFO guy, and they often say

913
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: that exact line. I haven't told anyone else this, but

914
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: I think that idea that if you put yourself out there,

915
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 2: because not everyone believes I think some a decent portion

916
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: of people, But when you start to have strange stories,

917
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: people are going to ridicule you. You are vulnerable by

918
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 2: opening yourself up in that way. And I think people

919
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: who've had similar experiences, especially if they've sat on them

920
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: until later in life and they never told anyone. It's

921
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: a cathartic release. It's that finally being able to tell

922
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 2: someone and feel like they're not going to be judged,

923
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: I think is part of the phenomenon. And I think

924
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 2: that's part of why what we're doing collectively by telling

925
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: stories and trying to promote a dialogue, is the healthiest

926
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: thing that we can do, because I think there's a

927
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: lot of stuff that needs to come out, so to speak.

928
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: The second thing I was going to say is, with

929
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: regards to Travis and his story, I think what's fascinating

930
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: is if you take it at face value and you say, no,

931
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: this actually happened, and maybe he didn't talk about it before,

932
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 2: but now he's talking about it, then it essentially invalidates

933
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 2: the one critique of his case, which was that he

934
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: had somehow been influencder He and his friends had been

935
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: influen by the UFO incident, which was the TV movie

936
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: about the Betty and Bardi Hill abduction, which had aliens

937
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: that had wrap around eyes, which was a feature of

938
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: what he talked about. And so there's this weird chicken

939
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: in an egg aspect to not just Fire in the

940
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 2: Sky and Travis, but all of these stories, and that's

941
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: been one of the interesting ways that we've approached our

942
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 2: podcast is not just is Hollywood under the influence in

943
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: the way that we had first to hand experience from

944
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 2: the government, but just Hollywood in general. What kind of

945
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: influence does it have on the general population and of

946
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: those potential millions of experiencers out there, how many of

947
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 2: the details that they might recount, even if their circumstances

948
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: were true, might be entangled from things that they'd seen

949
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: over the decades in TV and movies. Right, it feels

950
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: like it's all part of the collective consciousness. Like once

951
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: it's put out there, whether it's a film or a

952
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: television show or a story that someone's talking about with

953
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 2: their own experiences, it's all entangled and it's all part

954
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: of that palette that we all use and draw from

955
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 2: to tell our own version of the story. Right, And

956
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: at that point, maybe the details you're begging and borrowing

957
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 2: and stealing from different things. The experience may have been

958
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: absolutely real, but all of the details. It brings up

959
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 2: that thing we've talked about before too, which is the

960
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 2: Rashamon effect where people don't always remember all of the details,

961
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: and the longer they go decades and decades and then

962
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: try and recount their story. Who knows how much of

963
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: that is objectively true.

964
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:46,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, agreed.

965
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 3: Travis didn't even remember this at the time, didn't think

966
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 3: about it for decades, and then he looked back and

967
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 3: was like, oh, that was interesting, and then that connection happened. See,

968
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: we want things that you bring up a really good point.

969
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 3: We want things really clean. And Greg Bishop is the

970
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: first one to tell me when I first started going

971
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 3: down this rabbit hole, dude, be aware, this is not

972
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 3: clean at all. It's messy as hell. And he says

973
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 3: he doesn't like John Keel. He doesn't trust cases unless

974
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 3: they have high strangeness, unless there's something weird, right, Yes,

975
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 3: And so it's a detail that folds in and whether

976
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 3: that's a screen memory of yeah, I member as a

977
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 3: kid talking to an owl, then you realize I can't

978
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 3: talk to an owl.

979
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 4: And so it's strange in.

980
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 3: That way because we do editorialize things a lot, and

981
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 3: we also camparnamentalize things that don't become relevant till later

982
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 3: and we go, oh, oh wow, so this was that,

983
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 3: et cetera. And so I think that maybe that's a

984
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: component of this.

985
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: We've obviously told our story about what happened to us

986
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: at Dark Skuys. Have you and your Hollywood rumblings and

987
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: ramblings ever run across anyone else who has told a

988
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: story about a government approach to them in any way?

989
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: Have you heard that story? Has anyone ever talked to

990
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: you personally about such a thing.

991
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 4: Sorry, Stephen, they're asking me again, and I just don't

992
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 4: wear me down.

993
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 3: I'm not good at this man. You're better at this

994
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: good cop, bad cop. I'm just going to tell them no, no,

995
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 3: all right, I cannot have it happen yet. I'm looking

996
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 3: forward to it, to be honest, because I've got a

997
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 3: whole bunch of questions that I want to ask them

998
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 3: and say, hold on, holdah, why does this matter to you?

999
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 3: And there's people out here that will go nameless who

1000
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 3: talk about the threats that sometimes these these.

1001
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 4: Characters have made, and not to make light of it.

1002
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 3: But when I hear they came to me and they

1003
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 3: threatened me, I go, okay, that's because I worked on

1004
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 3: crime shows for fifteen years.

1005
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 4: They don't threaten you like that. They don't literally overtly

1006
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 4: say we will take you down.

1007
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 6: Nobody.

1008
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 4: It's not bad dialogue. It is Hey, it was really interesting.

1009
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 3: I saw that your daughter had a different lunchbox today

1010
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 3: then she had before, and there was a different route

1011
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 3: that they took to school.

1012
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 4: That's all that needs to be said.

1013
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: We were never threatened, but we did get that postcard

1014
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: while we were shooting the pilot that said we are

1015
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: watching you, which is it's not a threat, it's just

1016
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: but the observation feels unnerving to have somebody say they're

1017
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: watching us, So who wants that?

1018
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 4: I don't want anyone watching me.

1019
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 2: Although they did say that if we wanted to make

1020
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: the deal, we had to meet them in a cemetery

1021
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: at midnight, so again not a direct threat, but certainly

1022
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 2: not the warmest invitation you could.

1023
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 7: Be, Dean.

1024
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: If we don't get to this, we must go back

1025
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: to the beginning. Okay, you are the guy behind the

1026
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: McPherson tape. Okay, which was also it's so confusing to me.

1027
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: We met at a UFO conference where we were like

1028
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: sharing a table. My son was there and I think

1029
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: he was trying to put himself through college selling dark

1030
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: skies videos or something, and you guys were bonding, and

1031
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 1: you told us this story about the McPherson tape because

1032
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: you had some copies of it there, but it was

1033
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: also called the UFO Conductions, and then you were talking

1034
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: about how then you remade it for the CW. But also,

1035
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: as you said earlier on our show, that you had

1036
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: to admit that you had to go on national TV

1037
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: and explain it wasn't real because people were taking My

1038
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: mind is blown. I still today can't quite explain it all.

1039
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give you the floor here my

1040
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: friend tell us the story of the McPherson tape.

1041
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: I'm just going to cure the DVD commentary. Hold on

1042
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 3: one second, you.

1043
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:41,919
Speaker 4: Have that, Nick, can you pull it out?

1044
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 3: It's really Again I mentioned that I feel like Forrest Gump.

1045
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: There was no genius behind this. It was just the circumstances. Again,

1046
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 3: I was training twenty five. All of my idols, including Spielberg,

1047
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 3: had made their first film by twenty five, so I

1048
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 3: had to do something. And a buddy of mindset I'll

1049
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 3: give you sixty five hundred bucks to make a movie,

1050
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 3: and I just read Communion. And on the side, I

1051
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 3: was filming with my buddy wedding videos and so I

1052
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 3: was used to the VHS formats and home video and

1053
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 3: I thought, oh, I also love war, the worlds?

1054
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 4: What if I do?

1055
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 3: Basically wore the worlds on videotape, and I ascribed to

1056
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 3: the letter of the law onto these the experiences of

1057
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 3: the family members and the creatures, what they look like

1058
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 3: and everything.

1059
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 4: And so I made this thing.

1060
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: We shot it in a day and a half, and

1061
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 3: then it became again.

1062
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 4: Like I said I thought it was.

1063
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 3: There was a There was actually a warehouse fire where

1064
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 3: I was told that my main master, all my artwork.

1065
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 4: Were gone, burned to the ground. History.

1066
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 3: And so five years later, I get a call from

1067
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 3: this guy. I'm not going to say his name because

1068
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 3: he's no longer with us, but Sean David Morton, and

1069
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 3: he was a character in this and he would talk

1070
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 3: about this, so that's why I mentioned him. But he said, look,

1071
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 3: I just came back from the International UFO Congress Convention.

1072
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 3: Here's what happened. Unsolved Mysteries hardcome being a show call

1073
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 3: Encounters on Fox. They want to do a story on this,

1074
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 3: they want to get this footage. And so I said, well,

1075
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: Unsolved Mysteries is out, and he actually said not necessarily.

1076
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 4: And I said, that's pretty sure.

1077
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 3: It's called unsolved, not Solve Mysteries, and he goes, okay,

1078
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 3: So I went on the Fox show Encounters and then

1079
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 3: that six and a half minute clip. Flash forward another

1080
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 3: few years later, I'm working on the Stephen J. Cannell

1081
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 3: crime series and the head writer, Paul Chitlick says, hey, man,

1082
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 3: I heard about this whole video craziness and I go yeah,

1083
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 3: and he says I want to see it, and I go, yeah, No,

1084
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 3: it's weird. It's handheld, and I'm trying to rip off

1085
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 3: Spielberg and Scorsese with each episode I do, and I

1086
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 3: don't want to show this handheld home video thing, and

1087
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,439
Speaker 3: he tells me to shut up and show it to him.

1088
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 4: I show it to him.

1089
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 3: And then the next day he says, we have a

1090
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 3: meeting at Dick Clark Productions, and I think we can

1091
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 3: sell as a TV movie. And I said, all right,

1092
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: I want a story by credit. You can write this teleplay.

1093
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: I'll direct it you and I will produce it. Now

1094
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 3: go back to your office. So we go and we

1095
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 3: pitch it. We walk in there, we show them the

1096
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: six a half minute segment. The head of TV movie department,

1097
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 3: Dick Clark Neil Stearns, shakes her hand and says, we're

1098
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 3: going to take it. So that was my first Hollywood deal.

1099
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 3: I'm thirty two years old. It gives me great anxiety

1100
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 3: because I've been trying to be a filmmaker since I

1101
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 3: was a teenager, and all of a sudden things are

1102
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 3: going well. Doesn't make sense. It's as much a mindscrew

1103
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 3: as not getting what you want. And so flash forward

1104
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 3: a few months later and we're making it as UPN's

1105
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 3: flagship first TV movie. And so now the budget is

1106
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 3: we're shooting in Canada, so it's one point seven million.

1107
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 3: I can't spend that. We come in half a million

1108
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 3: hunder budget. We get the guys from the X Files

1109
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 3: do the ship in Aliens.

1110
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 4: This time it's called the McPherson tape.

1111
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 3: I picked McPherson because I had the word fear in it,

1112
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 3: and so I thought a nice little nod there for

1113
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 3: thriller purposes. And so we go, we shoot in a

1114
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,959
Speaker 3: week instead of one night, and everyone gets fired at UPN.

1115
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 3: We come back, they fire us, They cut it down

1116
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 3: to an hour, They sacrifice it because they want to

1117
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 3: show that the regime before them, you guys have heard

1118
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 3: this before, didn't know what they were doing, and thank

1119
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 3: god they heard the save of the network. It gets

1120
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: in the highest ratings for a Tuesday prime time. They

1121
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 3: aired again after they put more footage in. A week later,

1122
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 3: it does even better, and they say that'll never be

1123
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 3: on this network again because they've got an egg on

1124
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 3: their face. And then a year and a half later,

1125
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 3: the Blair Witch Project comes out and now they're.

1126
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 4: Like, oh, now we get it. Then the internet hits.

1127
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 3: In fact, something that was what my old partner Paul

1128
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 3: mentioned is there was an online poll that was taken

1129
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 3: to say do you believe this tape is real or not?

1130
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 3: Forty nine percent Basically fifty percent thought that it was real,

1131
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 3: even after credits had said Alien one, two and three

1132
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 3: played piso ins. So that might taught me something. And

1133
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 3: then so for several years I had to go online

1134
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 3: and I had to again debunk and show pictures behind

1135
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 3: the scenes, look this isn't real as well. So I

1136
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 3: did do myself any favors by doing the remake, but

1137
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 3: that's so far been my foray into independent films in

1138
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 3: sci fi, and so then that led me ultimately to

1139
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 3: come back to my people, the UFO community in twenty

1140
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 3: eighteen and start research on these documentaries.

1141
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: That's quite a story. It's incredible.

1142
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 2: What I think is so interesting is that you made

1143
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: what I would have to say, it's a very difficult transition.

1144
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: You went from making something fictional that a lot of

1145
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: people believed, right, even if that was not your intention.

1146
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 2: The minute when people are told, oh, no, everything you believe, No,

1147
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 2: that's fake, that's Hollywood, the initial response is going to

1148
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: be one of defensiveness and anger. Who's this person that

1149
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: tried to fake everybody? Out?

1150
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 5: Right?

1151
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 2: You made that transition into now a respected documentarian in

1152
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 2: the field actually bringing truth to the topic, And so

1153
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 2: I applaud you for that, because I just I know

1154
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,439
Speaker 2: we're still stuck on the side of the fence where

1155
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 2: we've got at least one foot in the fictional camp

1156
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 2: and dipping a toe into the truth and the facts.

1157
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: But that's not an easy transition to make.

1158
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 3: No, And if I wasn't on record, and there wasn't

1159
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 3: footage of me debunking my own film, there would be

1160
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 3: an argument to say, this guy is full of it

1161
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 3: and he's at it again. But along the way, I've

1162
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 3: been transparent. In fact, I had myself in the documentary

1163
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 3: talking about the history of this. But Leslie Kane when

1164
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 3: I interviewed her, she said to me, she goes, as

1165
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 3: we're packing wrapping out of her apartment, she says, she goes, yeah,

1166
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 3: you're not gonna be in it, are You? And I

1167
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: have a history tied into this, So I was thinking, yeah,

1168
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 3: we'd do that. She goes, okay, and I'm like, why

1169
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 3: does she care if I'm in here or not? And

1170
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 3: then I go and I edit myself into him. I go,

1171
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 3: I'm not the story. Why do I need to be

1172
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 3: in here? I would rather hear the experiencers speak for

1173
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 3: themselves and have them state their case and then let

1174
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 3: the audience decide if they feel it's real or not

1175
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 3: without having to spoon feed it to them. They're much

1176
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: more intelligent than that. The confusion, and there's tons of

1177
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 3: it around this. To get back to your question, Bryce,

1178
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 3: the McPherson tape the title, So the remake was called

1179
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 3: the McPherson tape. That became the foreign version that still called,

1180
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 3: which was the ninety minute uncut version because I was

1181
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 3: sold to someone else, not upn so that stayed the same,

1182
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 3: but the domestic one was changed to the imaginative title

1183
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 3: Alien Abduction Incident in Lake County and so so.

1184
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: Three titles for this project.

1185
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 4: There's three titles.

1186
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 3: And then people the conspiracy mills started rolling around. They said,

1187
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 3: all right, so the alien Abduction Instant Lake County is

1188
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 3: actually based on a real movie called the McPherson Tape.

1189
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 3: And instead of putting it on that same movie, they said,

1190
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 3: there's an original version of alien Abduction. That one is

1191
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 3: called the McPherson Tape. So the original the OG nineteen

1192
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 3: eighty nine is now called the McPherson Tape. I don't

1193
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 3: fight it, I just go all right, just sure, yes.

1194
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: I just want to ask your opinion about something because

1195
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: it's very important in terms of the yin and the

1196
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: yang of what's real and what's not real. And that

1197
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: is in the late nineties, because you've had experience with

1198
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: the network system. Fox airs the alien autopsy right now.

1199
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: If there's ever been one where at first it's presented

1200
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: as real, then it's revealed as not real, but then

1201
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: people continue to say it's real, that would be that project.

1202
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: Do you know anything about can you bring our audience

1203
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: up to speed on that particular story and what your

1204
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: take on it is.

1205
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 3: I have two stories on this. So Bob Kivit, who

1206
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 3: is a producer. He's the one that produced the Encounter

1207
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 3: segment where I debunked with footage and stuff my own film.

1208
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 3: He called me a year or two after and said, hey,

1209
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 3: I got this footage of this autops and he describes

1210
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 3: it to me. And I said to him, can I

1211
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 3: swear on this podcast, by the way, yes, okay, yes,

1212
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 3: in fact, it's better to do, so please.

1213
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 4: Go okay, all right?

1214
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 3: And I think I get paid every time you guys

1215
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 3: get paid every time I swearword is dropped. So I said, yeah, Bob,

1216
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 3: sounds like bullshit to me, and Bob says, and he

1217
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 3: disagrees that he said this, but I remember it.

1218
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 4: It'ched to my brain. He said, yeah, you're probably right, but.

1219
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to make a crapload of money from this,

1220
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 3: and he did. And so that was the truth.

1221
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 4: That was the fact. And so at that point.

1222
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:33,919
Speaker 1: Hang, I want, let's be clear what we're talking about

1223
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: for people who are joining us. This is footage that

1224
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: is presented as the actual footage from the autopsy of

1225
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: an alien done from the Roswell wreckage. Correct. So in

1226
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: other words, we are watching when you watch this film,

1227
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: you are watching doctors in gowns and nurses and in

1228
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: a room cutting open an alien body. Is that correct?

1229
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: And did you think when you saw it did you

1230
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: think it looked realistic at all esthetically?

1231
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 3: No. First of all, if you're gonna have take, you're

1232
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 3: gonna take the time to set up lights and everything

1233
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 3: and to orchestrate this whole deal.

1234
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 4: You're gonna get your exposure right.

1235
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 3: You're not gonna make a grainy like it was copying JFK.

1236
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 4: Right, You're not gonna do that. You're gonna put it

1237
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 4: on a tripod.

1238
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 3: There was tons of examples in the past where they

1239
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 3: would be doing experiments and stuff, they put things on

1240
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 3: a tripod.

1241
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 4: They had the time to do that. It wasn't rushed.

1242
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 4: So that was two big flags.

1243
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 3: For me that it was trying to be too much

1244
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 3: cinema verite. We're gonna pop in and out of focus

1245
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 3: and everything. The other is that there's a new rumor

1246
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 3: that came out new Ish that this isn't the real footage,

1247
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 3: but it's based on real footage. And there's a couple

1248
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,959
Speaker 3: shots where the leg is torn open where they dug

1249
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 3: into it in the autopsy, and some it's there it is.

1250
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 3: Those are probably outtakes, so they tried that version, didn't work.

1251
01:04:59,040 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 4: Whatever.

1252
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 3: It just goes on and on. But it's already been debunked,

1253
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 3: and I know there's going to be some listeners that

1254
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 3: will say, no, it's that's what they want you to

1255
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 3: think and everything. Again, I'm going to plead ignorance that

1256
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 3: I don't know everything, but based on the information that

1257
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 3: I've gotten and what I've looked at, and I've worked

1258
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 3: in this in a long field a long time, it

1259
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 3: doesn't pass muster.

1260
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 4: So I'm going to call BS on that.

1261
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 3: Another note, Two more things on this is Bob and

1262
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 3: I talked about doing the Alien Autopsy Part two, so

1263
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 3: I was going to direct that, but yeah, of course,

1264
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 3: but it wasn't going to be more fake footage. It

1265
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 3: was going to be doing a reenactment of what happened

1266
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 3: with the military, and we were going to see the

1267
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 3: crash disc happen and everything blah blah blah, which later

1268
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:52,959
Speaker 3: on or I don't know when it happened before after,

1269
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 3: but you've got Unsolved Mysteries which handled it really well.

1270
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 4: So we were basically going to do the.

1271
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 3: Same thing that ended up not happening, and then from

1272
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 3: that flash forward, I'm going out now and this is

1273
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 3: ninety six, ninety seven, and we're pitching the alien abduction

1274
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 3: in St. Lake County, and we go and we pitch

1275
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 3: it to Fox, and we're pitching it to the same guy,

1276
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 3: Mike Darnell, who agreed, yeah, okay to green light Alien

1277
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 3: Autopsy a few years before then. And he says to

1278
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 3: Paul and I, he says, this is a type of

1279
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 3: project that people lose careers over. And so we spilled

1280
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 3: coffee on his bear rug, Polar bear rug, and we

1281
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 3: left well done.

1282
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that was us that spilled the coffee, by

1283
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 4: the way.

1284
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 3: But anyway, so that's what I know about the alien

1285
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 3: Autopsy deal.

1286
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: Wow. Found footage, though, has made some better versions. Certainly

1287
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: Area fifty one is a found footage alien movie, but

1288
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: it's well done. It's actually rendered in all that. Do

1289
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: you have a favorite beside your own? Do you have

1290
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: a found footage alien film that you've enjoyed alien film?

1291
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: It's funny I alien found footage though, but in that Yeah.

1292
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 3: I recently did a zoom meeting with Eduardo Sanchez, who

1293
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 3: was one of the co creator of the Blair Witch project,

1294
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 3: and it was really funny because he thought that I

1295
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 3: was pissed off at him because he had seen my

1296
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 3: film and they did their own version, and I said, no,

1297
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 3: you can't copyright a style of filmmaking, a new narrative.

1298
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be one of the first out of

1299
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 3: the gate to do it, but no, And so he was.

1300
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 4: He's a really nice guy. Anyway.

1301
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple Canadian associates fans of my film. They

1302
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 3: were called the Vicious Brothers. They did a thing called Extraterrestrial.

1303
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 3: Yes and yeah, and in fact, one of the characters,

1304
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 3: I think the sheriff's name is McPherson, which was named

1305
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 3: after as an homage, which I thought was really nice.

1306
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, there have been good films. Extraterrestrial has not found

1307
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: footage though, is it.

1308
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 4: It's no, it isn't.

1309
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 3: But they did one that was Encounters. Theirs was called Encounters.

1310
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 3: Thank you for correcting. Yet they worked in that space

1311
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 3: a lot. They're big fans of the genre. But anyway,

1312
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: and then I was trying to get work directed on

1313
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 3: Alias and JJ Abrams partner had seen on my reel

1314
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,879
Speaker 3: because I sent it into him to get work directing,

1315
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 3: and that had clips of alien abduction into Lake County.

1316
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 3: And then a year later strange coincidence, Cloverfield comes out.

1317
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 3: Cloverfield is about a bunch of people getting together and

1318
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 3: then there's a blackout and you know the rest, and

1319
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 3: so it was very similar. And then when I saw

1320
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 3: the movie Signs, I started getting a lot of people

1321
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 3: telling me he ripped you off because it is a

1322
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 3: single parent with three kids out in the country. And

1323
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 3: there's even a shot by shot breakdown where you see

1324
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 3: an alien sneaking into the floor. And my thing again,

1325
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:06,599
Speaker 3: if m Night shall mount ding Dong, if he happen

1326
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:10,679
Speaker 3: to see that, then that's great. That's a nod to everyone.

1327
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 3: I don't think any of this is I don't want

1328
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 3: to imagine. Ay, this is intentional, but it doesn't matter.

1329
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,799
Speaker 3: I'm flattered at the best and worst case scenario.

1330
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: Well, we got a race for the exit here. But

1331
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 1: let me just ask you to speculate or to give

1332
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 1: us your thought on the essential situation here. As we've

1333
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: been doing sound, light and frequency, we're kind of asking

1334
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 1: a question, does the real thing that's happening, the phenomenon,

1335
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: find its way into Hollywood product or does Hollywood product

1336
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 1: influence people to describe their experiences through a lens that

1337
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: Hollywood has already given them. Do you see that's the

1338
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 1: whole chicken and egg thing that Brent was mentioning. Do

1339
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: you see that as an issue? Has it ever been

1340
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 1: an issue? Do you have an example of any of

1341
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: that or what is your take on that?

1342
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 3: My take is just I'll just cite you guys, Okay.

1343
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,640
Speaker 3: I mean, you've been working in this for decades. What

1344
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 3: is it that brings it out in you? Science fiction

1345
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 3: is nothing but prophesizing what's to come?

1346
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:20,559
Speaker 4: Good Lord, look at HG. Wells going a trip to

1347
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 4: the moon.

1348
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 3: He said there's gonna be a rocket and there's gonna

1349
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 3: be booster stages with it.

1350
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 1: How does he know that?

1351
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,520
Speaker 4: And so that's just good.

1352
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 3: Sci fi writing. As a sci fi writer myself, I'm

1353
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 3: constantly thinking. At three am, usually the muse comes and

1354
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 3: does a swing by my on my ass and says, hey,

1355
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 3: what if?

1356
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 4: What if?

1357
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 3: And that sends us down this rabbit hole because we

1358
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 3: want to have it grounded, we go ahead and we

1359
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 3: do our homework and everything. So it ends up being

1360
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 3: confused if it's good with something that could be. And

1361
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 3: so I think that it's constantly something that as filmmakers,

1362
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 3: it's playtime. It's stuff that we can get into this,

1363
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:01,640
Speaker 3: and that's my answer to that. But there's other influencers,

1364
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 3: influences that aren't Sci Fi related in this space that

1365
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 3: are dangerous and this needs to be said.

1366
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 4: JD Vance came out and said, these are demons.

1367
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 3: Now. I've talked to lou Elizondo and he said, hey,

1368
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 3: when I was briefing these generals, there was a small

1369
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 3: portion of them that would come up and say, hey,

1370
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 3: you're doing God's work, and another percentage smaller would come

1371
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 3: up and.

1372
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:27,799
Speaker 4: Say, you do know their demons?

1373
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 3: Right, with no evidence to support that, they just felt that.

1374
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 3: So when JD says something like that, my ears prick

1375
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 3: up because I'm going, all right, what's with A the

1376
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 3: labeling and b how do we get to demons? Timber Chet,

1377
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 3: Congressman timber Chet took exception with this, and he said,

1378
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 3: I'm okay with Jesus, but why does a demon need

1379
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 3: a machine to get around? And So when I was

1380
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 3: speaking a couple of weeks ago at this art show

1381
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 3: that was all by experiencers, all the art was done

1382
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 3: by experiencers, I'm talking about this and I'm saying, if

1383
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 3: these guys like Brent you said this earlier, if they

1384
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 3: want to take us out, they would have.

1385
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 4: Already taken us out, no problem.

1386
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 3: And so I'm saying this and a couple other things,

1387
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 3: and I'm also talking about how I almost feel bad,

1388
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 3: like it almost brings me to tears when I think

1389
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 3: about these beings.

1390
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,639
Speaker 4: That don't have art. And I asked experiences.

1391
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 3: I said, when's the last time you've been on the

1392
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 3: table and you look over at these concaved walls and

1393
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 3: you've seen an alien mona, Lisa, are you seeing the

1394
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 3: alien Last Supper? Or even five alien dogs sitting around

1395
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 3: a table playing poker.

1396
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:39,759
Speaker 4: It doesn't exist. They don't have that. They don't have music.

1397
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 4: I can't imagine.

1398
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 3: It's taken me out right now if we don't have art,

1399
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 3: if I can't go to a concert and experience that.

1400
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 3: And so it turns out that Whitley Streeber was in

1401
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 3: the audience, and I thought, Oh, what's his take going

1402
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 3: to be on this, because he sees both sides, and

1403
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 3: Greg Bishop, who invited him, gives him the microphone and

1404
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh God, okay.

1405
01:12:58,800 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 4: Here it goes.

1406
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 3: And I take up my iPhone and I'm videotaping it,

1407
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 3: and Whitley says this, He says regarding them.

1408
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 4: Eating us demons, that's what a demon does at each you.

1409
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,559
Speaker 3: It tears your part of all the drawings and stuff

1410
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 3: have that, And they're always black, and they've got chicken

1411
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 3: feet or something.

1412
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: He says.

1413
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 3: If they wanted to eat us, we'd already been eight.

1414
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 3: So where's the evidence of this. Where's the villages that

1415
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,600
Speaker 3: have been wiped out? They're not doing that, And so

1416
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 3: it's really I'm just going to use the s word silly.

1417
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: What about other people talk about there's people that have

1418
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,600
Speaker 1: been picked up and mutilated? Do you buy any of that?

1419
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:40,879
Speaker 4: I don't have any evidence.

1420
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 3: No one's come forward, The family hasn't said, hey, these

1421
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 3: are all stories hearsay. And so for me, again, give

1422
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 3: me the evidence and I'm on board. I'm an empirical,

1423
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 3: stupid thinking guy. Just make it simple for me.

1424
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 4: I've not seen that.

1425
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 3: And so what it does for the experience is because

1426
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 3: I'm going to be going to another experience of support

1427
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 3: group and I'm going to be addressing this very thing

1428
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 3: because I've been put in a position where I'm in

1429
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 3: a way representing a faction of the phenomenon here, and

1430
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 3: so i want to know exactly what the concerns are

1431
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 3: in my conversations over the phone and on zooms has

1432
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 3: been if they're associating these grays or any of these

1433
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 3: beings with demons, then by proxy or by being adjacent,

1434
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 3: what does that mean for us, these experiencers, because are

1435
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 3: they going to be in threat of this? And I

1436
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 3: note that Gary Nolan is working on coming up with

1437
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 3: a way of test to be able to identify someone

1438
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 3: who is an experiencer versus someone who isn't.

1439
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 4: So I don't know.

1440
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 3: I'm projecting out to a nightmare of rounding up people.

1441
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 3: But it's a bigger conversation. But it's not good, it's

1442
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 3: not healthy, and it's propaganda. And these people and that's

1443
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 3: the reason why I made this duck. These people need

1444
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 3: empathy and understanding. And the best compliment that we've gotten

1445
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 3: on our film is they feel triggered.

1446
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 4: And at first I was concerned about that.

1447
01:14:57,840 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 3: I go, I don't want to trigger anyone, and they

1448
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 3: said no, it is so realistic, the portrayal and the

1449
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 3: way that it's done and left up to the audience.

1450
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 4: That was my experience. And the second thing.

1451
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 3: Is they feel heard, and I'm like, okay, and so

1452
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 3: Leslie Kane says, I'm working the space for the empathy

1453
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 3: of these people.

1454
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:16,600
Speaker 4: The experiencers.

1455
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 3: Yes, So anyway, I feel like I'm being co opted,

1456
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 3: And if that's the reason, then so be it.

1457
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to connect two more dots. Being true to

1458
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 2: myself here, just spent three dots, just one. No, I

1459
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 2: cannot do three, only two. So on this topic of

1460
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 2: experiencers having strange encounters with aliens, we've already talked about

1461
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 2: that there's different kinds out there. I think one of

1462
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:45,719
Speaker 2: the fascinating things is that if you look at something

1463
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 2: that Ernie Klein said to us on our show. He

1464
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 2: talked about this idea that maybe writers are just remote viewing.

1465
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 2: They're seeing ideas unfold in the future. They're recording them.

1466
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 2: They're thinking it's their imagination, and they're put it down

1467
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 2: and lo and behold it becomes true. Right, you've all

1468
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 2: heard the story about the Star Trek communicator, right leading

1469
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 2: to someone came up with that idea. It goes into

1470
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 2: the media, and now it's inspiring scientists to go make it.

1471
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 2: So again, this is the whole chicken in the egg thing.

1472
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 2: But then the other aspect of this that I think

1473
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 2: is fascinating is a lot of people who've had encounters

1474
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 2: with UFOs, whether it was abductions or even just in

1475
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 2: the proximity of them, have reported what something that you

1476
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 2: talk about, Dean, in I believe alien perspective is downloads.

1477
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: That this is another when you say why are they here?

1478
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 2: Maybe they're doing things with us genetically, but they also

1479
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 2: seem to be, at least for some of us. You're

1480
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 2: getting a download, you're getting ideas. Some people are being

1481
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 2: blessed with huge upgrades in a new understanding of things

1482
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 2: that they had no idea about, whether it's math or

1483
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 2: science or languages or whatever. And by the way, this

1484
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 2: is a key component of just closure day, right, this

1485
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,600
Speaker 2: idea of the downloads the upgrade of humanity. And so

1486
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 2: in that sense, maybe there is a very benevolent aspect

1487
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 2: to the visitations where maybe they are checking on us

1488
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 2: as a species, looking at our genetics in the same

1489
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 2: way that we do these this to animals right all

1490
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 2: over the planet without with almost always the intent of

1491
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 2: making sure that their species is okay, that it's going

1492
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 2: to survive. But at the same time they're also trying

1493
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 2: to lift us up. And certain people are that maybe

1494
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 2: are receptive to it. For whatever reason, are getting downloads,

1495
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 2: and if that's what's happening, then it's hard to see

1496
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 2: this as anything. The worst, it's neutral, right, but at

1497
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 2: the best, it's completely the opposite of demonic.

1498
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:54,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, look, I don't agree that something like again,

1499
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,240
Speaker 3: I'm going to call it a conspiracy that these beings,

1500
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 3: like there's tales of eating our soul and stuff.

1501
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 4: What does that even taste? Is it like chicken?

1502
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 3: Barbecue chicken? What tendory chicken? What kind of chicken we're

1503
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 3: talking about? It makes no sense. I'm my background, I

1504
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 3: used to do a lot of meditations, and I'm a.

1505
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 4: Very spiritual person.

1506
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 3: I do believe in reincarnation, as put forth in several

1507
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 3: great books, like Cornell professor doctor Brian Weiss, I believe

1508
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 3: that our souls are equal to any other sentient beings.

1509
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 3: It's not like on the other side wanted there's a

1510
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 3: hierarchy there. I believe that when we're here, because there

1511
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 3: is John Max is the dual alien identity, that some

1512
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 3: of the experiencers might have come from another planet or

1513
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,720
Speaker 3: wherever these beans are coming from, and they've agreed to

1514
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 3: do this. Hence, when the experiencers say their first time

1515
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 3: early on, they say, have no right to do this,

1516
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 3: and these nhis say, yes, we do. And so I

1517
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 3: look at this and I go, Okay. I feel like

1518
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:55,680
Speaker 3: there isn't something that is going to destroy us. I

1519
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:59,639
Speaker 3: feel like ultimately everything came from somewhere, including the beans.

1520
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 4: The Vatican talks about.

1521
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 3: This, and so at the end of the day, I'm

1522
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 3: an optimist and at the end of the day love

1523
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 3: will always well out. And when I think of what's

1524
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 3: great about humanity, I don't think about all the bickering.

1525
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 3: I don't think about the greed, and I don't think

1526
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 3: about the insecurities that we have, which, by the way,

1527
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 3: if the Onanaki came and they've been genetically modifying us,

1528
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 3: can we breed that out? Because we can do that

1529
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 3: with dogs for centuries and be able to breed certain

1530
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 3: traits on can we breed those out? I feel like

1531
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 3: we are here to learn certain things. And so when

1532
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 3: people want full disclosure, I keep saying, we're not even

1533
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 3: a type one species yet, guys, and so we still

1534
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 3: have ways to go to meet halfway on the bridge,

1535
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 3: and so experiencers, and when I go to these conventions

1536
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 3: and conferences, I believe all these people can handle full

1537
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 3: on disclosure because they're already experiencing it. A lot of

1538
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 3: these are boots on the ground. It's just the rest

1539
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 3: of the planet, and it's the OLED's saying, we're only

1540
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 3: as strong as our weakest link. So there's some work

1541
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 3: that we have to do, but we're going to get there.

1542
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 3: That's the good news is we are going to get there.

1543
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. It's always fun to talk to you,

1544
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: my friend, and I guess you and I'll be seeing

1545
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 1: each other at the lunch club. And the only question

1546
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 1: I have is if Friedman's in town, what do you

1547
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:14,599
Speaker 1: think you think? And you can.

1548
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:21,400
Speaker 8: Freeman's in town as ask you try to do the

1549
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:23,640
Speaker 8: secret handshake, and if he fumbles it and it just

1550
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 8: doesn't seem natural, then that's a pass.

1551
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: Listen, Thanks so much, good luck, And let's state this.

1552
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 1: The name of the documentary that you can get now

1553
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 1: on Amazon and Apple is The Experiencers Full Disclosure.

1554
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,679
Speaker 4: Full Monty Disclosure, Yes, and the other two.

1555
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 3: And if people want to see the McPherson tape, that's

1556
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 3: also on Amazon, but they can get the Blu ray version,

1557
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:48,799
Speaker 3: which is even better, and it's and it's the prices

1558
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 3: is very reasonable you can get all the behind the

1559
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 3: scenes stuff which is just crazy. I've got commentaries, everything else.

1560
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 3: And then the other two documentaries, The Alien Perspective Part

1561
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:58,759
Speaker 3: one and two, also on Amazon and Apple.

1562
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:01,760
Speaker 1: All Right, thanks so much, we'll see you again. We'll

1563
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 1: see it at lunch Club. Bye bye, thank you, Thanks guys.

1564
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 1: Sound Light and Frequency is an iHeart podcast produced by

1565
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick Johnson and for

1566
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:19,719
Speaker 1: Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was written by Anna

1567
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:23,560
Speaker 1: Stumf and Hamilton Lighthouser. And your hosts and executive producers

1568
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 1: are Brice Abel, That's me and Brent Friedman. Watch the

1569
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: GUIs