Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless,
Speaker 1: severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.
Speaker 2: Listening to podcast, you can't predict anything.
Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.
Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting
Speaker 1: for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every
Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light
Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I T
Speaker 1: E dot com. All right, Phil, you ready, we're rolling?
Speaker 1: We started.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: We're just having a little chit chat. Prior in the subject,
Speaker 1: did you bring it up? Seth? Yeah, Seth brought up
Speaker 1: how we have the shirt that that that fisher was
Speaker 1: wearing on the on when he found the weights in
Speaker 1: the walleye. And then I was need to point out
Speaker 1: to our guests here, who are fishermen that we actually
Speaker 1: hold in our possession the knife that was used to
Speaker 1: disembowel the walle eyes. It's a it's a piece of
Speaker 1: history to find the weights. And he and then it
Speaker 1: was an interesting little detail is he was a little
Speaker 1: bit embarrassed about his knife work in the video. He's
Speaker 1: he's cutting open the walllle Eyes, and he was a polo.
Speaker 1: He was embarrassed about that it looked like his knife
Speaker 1: work was inexpert knife work. And he pointed out that
Speaker 1: his leather man, the leather man someone handed him, had
Speaker 1: a broken tip, and that's why he wasn't able to
Speaker 1: more expertly extricate the lesson.
Speaker 4: When I was watching that video, the last thing I
Speaker 4: was worrying about was his knife work, I thought.
Speaker 1: So this morning I was reading at Harvard University. They've
Speaker 1: been in the news a bunch for getting their balls
Speaker 1: busted about anti semitism on campus. But uh uh, they
Speaker 1: bought a different news story about Harvard. They bought a
Speaker 1: man a copy of the Magna Carta. Did you see
Speaker 1: this for twenty seven dollars and fifty cents long, long,
Speaker 1: long ago, And these scholars just realized it's the original copy.
Speaker 1: Oh God, someday they're gonna be arguing about this knife.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if there's maybe hopefully like Walleye DNA, you.
Speaker 5: Mean, arguing about the provenance.
Speaker 1: They'll be like Dad, can't be the actual night despite.
Speaker 4: The label on this side, is that there's like a
Speaker 4: little russ is that rusters like some dried drugs, dry blood.
Speaker 1: I just hol't. No one washed it. So when there
Speaker 1: is like a big thing and like a big scandal
Speaker 1: and like it sells on sotherbs for millions of dollars
Speaker 1: and shit, you know.
Speaker 5: It's like owning the gun that shot Lincoln or something
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, well I traded that for this. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the actual knife. It's impressive here in our private
Speaker 1: collection that might be our only No, I don't think
Speaker 1: we have a lot of artifacts like the culturally significant
Speaker 1: artifacts like that.
Speaker 3: Start collecting more.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 1: Today we're joined by two enthusiastic anglers who happened to
Speaker 1: be not friends with each other. I hope you come
Speaker 1: out of this friends. We built a good friends with
Speaker 1: Chester who's not here, Jeremy Smith and Danny Thompson. And
Speaker 1: what we're here to talk about was we're here to
Speaker 1: have a friendly discussion, a friendly discussion about what's the
Speaker 1: slang term for it, live scope.
Speaker 4: Forward facing sevenar Yeah, well no, live scope, live scope,
Speaker 4: live scope.
Speaker 1: There day I was sitting at I was stuck at
Speaker 1: a boat launch for hours because the wheel fell off.
Speaker 1: My trailer made a lot of friends, especially when it
Speaker 1: was it fell off the trailer blocking the boat launch,
Speaker 1: you know, Ashole, Yeah, it was funny. There's two kinds
Speaker 1: of people in this world. There's people that will do
Speaker 1: anything to try to back a trailer around you in
Speaker 1: a moment of distress, and there's people who will come
Speaker 1: up to help.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, you know, there's a funny joke. There's two kinds
Speaker 1: of people in this world. There's people that think you
Speaker 1: can bucket everybody into two brackets. It's a joke. Anyway,
Speaker 1: while I'm sitting there in my moment of no my
Speaker 1: moment of distress is over because thanks to the help
Speaker 1: of a fellow angler, we got the boat out of
Speaker 1: the way, and then we were just people sitting there
Speaker 1: with nothing to do, waiting for a flatbed trailer. And
Speaker 1: a guy bragged to another guy. He bragged to another guy,
Speaker 1: He's like, just got forward facing sonar boom. So I thought, man,
Speaker 1: you should come into the studios. We're gonna be talking
Speaker 1: about this in a couple of days. We're gonna be
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a friendly discussion about the future of
Speaker 1: forward facing sonar. Is it the end of fishing or
Speaker 1: just the beginning? And we have a sonar enthusiast Danny
Speaker 1: Thompson works for garment, but is not here representing garment.
Speaker 1: Can I even say that you worked there, you got
Speaker 1: a garment T shirt.
Speaker 6: I mean people are gonna.
Speaker 1: Works for garment, but it's not here as a rep
Speaker 1: of garment. But he's a sonar enthusiast. And we're also
Speaker 1: joined by Jeremy Smith, who is from Lindner Media Productions
Speaker 1: and angling Edge dot com. Who is is it fair
Speaker 1: to say suspicious of nervous about?
Speaker 2: I think there's reasons for concern, with reasons with the
Speaker 2: technology in certain cases.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't want to lead. We're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: do the news first. I don't want to lead the thing.
Speaker 1: But we've been here before. Uh, for hunters out there
Speaker 1: that don't care about fishing, we've been here before with
Speaker 1: drone technology, smart rifles, you know, yeah, remote control hunting
Speaker 1: with remote control rifle. Yeah, like this comes up, this
Speaker 1: comes up. Sure, How do we fit new How do
Speaker 1: we fit emerging technologies into our regulatory structures?
Speaker 5: Wireless cell cameras, yeah.
Speaker 1: Wireless cell cameras, two way communications, Like, throughout the history
Speaker 1: of wildlife management, we've done two things. We've gone back
Speaker 1: and reconsidered old technologies like dynamite. Right right, they're like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I know, y'all benfishing with dynamite, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna stop. So we've done that, and then we've
Speaker 1: engaged around emerging technologies and I have a couple of
Speaker 1: thoughts about how that goes. And uh, we're gonna hear.
Speaker 1: We're gonna hear from the fellas here about their thoughts.
Speaker 1: But can I throw out one till later? Just tilate
Speaker 1: everybody to keep them hanging around. The minute, there was
Speaker 1: like a whisper of using drones for hunting. They went
Speaker 1: after drones before there was a user group. Smart and
Speaker 1: I started to think to myself, like you have to
Speaker 1: if you are if you look at an emerging technology,
Speaker 1: you cannot wait for a user group, and you cannot
Speaker 1: wait for an industry to build around it. Once you
Speaker 1: wait for an industry to build around it and an
Speaker 1: enthusiastic user group. Right, you missed your chance. You missed
Speaker 1: your chance. Like had someone a long time ago said,
Speaker 1: you know what, these gas powered boat motors are going
Speaker 1: to kill fishing. Now you got dudes everywhere, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: could fish five miles from your house.
Speaker 3: You're not shutting that down now.
Speaker 1: You would have been like people. You could have gotten
Speaker 1: some old timers be like, yeah, what's wrong with rowan
Speaker 1: and you would have gotten you could have banned boat
Speaker 1: motors for fishing. But you missed your chance. It's too
Speaker 1: late now if you bring it up. I remember my
Speaker 1: dad in the lake I grew up on, trying to
Speaker 1: get a no wake zone in the evening and jeesuz
Speaker 1: about burned our house down. But first the news. I
Speaker 1: got two news pieces that aren't really what one's the
Speaker 1: newspece see our day. You know that there's a dude
Speaker 1: that one of the guys that works at the med
Speaker 1: Eater store on Main Street, the odd calls my kid
Speaker 1: to ask me they're headed to the emergency room because
Speaker 1: he had stepped out a lionfish man, which is painful.
Speaker 1: And I got zapped by a lionfish and I thought
Speaker 1: I was gonna die because I didn't know about it.
Speaker 1: It's like I remember getting bit by a bullet ant
Speaker 1: and I knew it was bad, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: what happened. And when I got hit by a lionfish
Speaker 1: in the hand real hard, like someone swung it on
Speaker 1: the end of a pole spear into my hand. I
Speaker 1: was with Rannie Bain. I remember Rannie Bain yelled at
Speaker 1: me put it in cold water, like and like you
Speaker 1: look online, don't put it in cold water. What you do?
Speaker 1: And I haven't talked to these guys since, but it
Speaker 1: was extremely painful but very short lived. Like your hand,
Speaker 1: like my hand, his foot, whatever, just blows up and
Speaker 1: it's excruciating pain. Like I was just laying in the
Speaker 1: bottom of the boat writhing in pain. Two hours later,
Speaker 1: I couldn't even remember where the hell it happened. You
Speaker 1: get hot water is hot, like get it so it's
Speaker 1: too hot to put your hand in. And then the
Speaker 1: minute you can put your wound in that hot water,
Speaker 1: somehow it dissolves that toxin and alleviates it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: they had been wading through the mangroves and one of
Speaker 1: them stepped on it. But I haven't heard any news
Speaker 1: from them since then. Another personal news bit is this morning,
Speaker 1: I was trying to remember if the invasive dove is
Speaker 1: called a ring neck dove or a collar dove. It's
Speaker 1: a collar dove. But everywhere now, oh yeah, in this
Speaker 1: state recording Southwest Montana today for the first I'd always
Speaker 1: see him around town. I saw the first three in
Speaker 1: my yard today.
Speaker 5: Oh really, first and first three? Seen where?
Speaker 1: The first three I ever see? I've seen them from.
Speaker 1: Actually I need to go into my bird list and
Speaker 1: put them down. We keep a bird list for the yard. Uh,
Speaker 1: the first three I've ever seen, like touch foot in
Speaker 1: my yard.
Speaker 5: Yeah, We've got tons of them.
Speaker 1: So I'm debating, like my kid will get them now
Speaker 1: and then elsewhere. I'm debating is it ethical or not
Speaker 1: ethical to start a little feed station.
Speaker 5: I go for it because on.
Speaker 1: One hand you're supporting them, but on the other hand,
Speaker 1: you're whiting. You're trying to whittle it down. It's an
Speaker 1: ethical conundrum with probably legal with probably legal components. But
Speaker 1: you're allowed to feed birds and they're not a game bird.
Speaker 5: And they're in invasive, so I don't know about it.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 5: They're bigger than mourning doves.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I can tell them just if you
Speaker 1: get like because I mean, mourning doves are a little
Speaker 1: bit you know, it's like the mona Zuma's dove. It's
Speaker 1: like a real small little shit in the mourning dove.
Speaker 1: And you got like a mourning dove and you kind
Speaker 1: of get used to that size. It's just a plumper.
Speaker 1: It's a plumper bird. The other day we were at
Speaker 1: the other night, we were at my neighbors. We're shooting
Speaker 1: bows at my neighbors because he's got a great shooting setup.
Speaker 1: And I look out in his front yard and there's
Speaker 1: a collar dove getting a drink of water out of
Speaker 1: a mud puddle. And I told my kid try to
Speaker 1: get him. And then we questioned it. My neighbor's wife
Speaker 1: pointed out that that might not be the most popular
Speaker 1: move with a neighbor, so we did not do it.
Speaker 1: And then I told him I was like, confirm the
Speaker 1: collar or else she might be in big trouble with
Speaker 1: the law. Yep, she don't want to be a mourning dove.
Speaker 1: A dude wrote in we had had a big discussion
Speaker 1: about Doug Durren's emphasis on always backing in and how
Speaker 1: he credits backing in with saving his father's life, which
Speaker 1: I think is a is an overstatement. I think I
Speaker 1: think Vince Derham would have survived getting attacked by his
Speaker 1: own chainsaw whether he had backed in or not. But
Speaker 1: there's a term for it that I didn't know. In
Speaker 1: the mining industry. What's what's the OENNG industry? He says.
Speaker 1: In the mining industry. Oh okay, this guy says, in
Speaker 1: the mining and oil and gas industries, it is called
Speaker 1: the move. It's called first move forward, like backing in.
Speaker 1: You can call it backing in and everybody's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know what that means. Or you can call it
Speaker 1: first move forward and people will be that they don't
Speaker 1: know what that means.
Speaker 5: That's like the tactical name for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like your wallet used to be your wallet,
Speaker 1: now it's your E d C. Your pocket knife was
Speaker 1: always a pocket knife, it's your EDC. Guy wrote it
Speaker 1: a big thing about Red Don, which I don't know.
Speaker 1: Why did we talk about Red Don. It's a great movie.
Speaker 4: You've brought it up a lot and whatnot.
Speaker 1: Well, I brought it up because I am now like
Speaker 1: I now have my boy being My boy is at
Speaker 1: the age where, you know, fourteen fifteen years old, he's
Speaker 1: at the age where I can now go show him
Speaker 1: all the movies I liked when I was fourteen fifteen
Speaker 1: years old. So we recently watched Red Dawn, and the
Speaker 1: guy wrote in and I'm not totally sure why I
Speaker 1: like it enough to talk about it, but I don't
Speaker 1: know what he's getting at. He says. Red Dawn nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four is a masterpiece of modern cinema. Makes you
Speaker 1: think about all kinds of cool stuff like government authority,
Speaker 1: history as written by the victors, and of course dirty comies.
Speaker 1: But I'm puzzled by history as written by the victors
Speaker 1: because in the end of Red Dawn they go to
Speaker 1: the the monument, and you gather from the monument that
Speaker 1: we beat the Commies. We beat back the Commies. As
Speaker 1: a boy eating pop tarts and watching TNT, the film
Speaker 1: made me think about words quite a bit, like definitions
Speaker 1: of vigilante, freedom, fired, fighter, terrorist, and the like. Also,
Speaker 1: how all my boy Scout ranks and commendations would crush
Speaker 1: in a post invasion America. That's another good thing he
Speaker 1: brings up because in Red Dawn, the guy that has
Speaker 1: an Eagle Scout is being targeted by the Rooskies. Remember
Speaker 1: they think it's a paramilitary organization. He says, superheroes are
Speaker 1: kind of vigilantes. America is at war with.
Speaker 2: The tear Really, I wish I'd better understood where.
Speaker 1: He's going with this. What it boils down doing the
Speaker 1: end he's.
Speaker 5: Trying to ask, what are what are those kids in
Speaker 5: Red Dawn?
Speaker 1: No, that's what, that's what. Yeah, it's I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Alex love everything about it. Love your letter. I think
Speaker 1: he's saying like that from it depends on whose perspective, right,
Speaker 1: because here you have they're violating, they're they're poaching deer
Speaker 1: to eat. But they're the heroes. So are they poachers?
Speaker 5: Well, I mean are they poaching? Like, are you still
Speaker 5: a poacher? If you're being occupied by some.
Speaker 1: It would have been good if they had showed him
Speaker 1: tagged that bar. He like validates his tag, take it
Speaker 1: to the registration.
Speaker 5: I think they get a pass.
Speaker 1: They're really nervous about going back into town. But I
Speaker 1: need to register. Got twenty four hours.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like you go up to the rush in general
Speaker 5: with your tag.
Speaker 1: It's legal. It's a great question. And then he gets
Speaker 1: into of course, uh the Mary the robin Hood's people. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know Robin Hood's people are poachers because they steal
Speaker 1: the king's game and and and share it with the
Speaker 1: poor folk. Uh. This would have been better directed to Clay,
Speaker 1: who does a lot of his bear grease is about uh, violators, poachers,
Speaker 1: But in Clay's formula. He won't do a poacher unless
Speaker 1: the poacher is dead. He won't profile a poet. He'll
Speaker 1: profile famous dead poachers. Or he'll profile poachers who reformed, reformed,
Speaker 1: who saw the light.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not talking to active poachers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't. I think that's it. That's
Speaker 1: it for the news, right. Oh No, there are a couple.
Speaker 7: Of things in there, but they're not all amazing and Choose.
Speaker 1: Well, we got that, and then we got a guy
Speaker 1: writing in that just is an interesting thing for people
Speaker 1: to follow. He puts thing in quotes. There's the thing
Speaker 1: in quotes happening in my little hometown of Elkins, West
Speaker 1: Virginia that I find incredibly entertaining. He says he has
Speaker 1: no affiliation with anyone related to this, and he's been
Speaker 1: moved out of there for fifteen years, but he still
Speaker 1: likes to follow the local hunting and fishen scene on Facebook.
Speaker 1: He says, there's a young man named Trent Mullanu Mullanax
Speaker 1: maybe Mullenu probably who's been catching an absurd number of
Speaker 1: absolutely gigantic rainbow trout and he's been putting his photos
Speaker 1: up at Middle Mountain Sporting Goods, the local hunting bait shop,
Speaker 1: and he keeps hammering giant trout, and everyone in the
Speaker 1: town is in an absolute uproar, accusing Trent of all
Speaker 1: kinds of nasties, like unable to explain this streak of success,
Speaker 1: saying he's following the stock truck. Other guys are defending
Speaker 1: his honor and saying these are huge fish no matter
Speaker 1: how he caught him. People have begun writing poems to
Speaker 1: explain his like it's inspired poetry trying to explain his
Speaker 1: incredible streak. He says, it's worth least to mention, and
Speaker 1: then he gives the Facebook page or search Middle Mountain
Speaker 1: Sporting Goods on Facebook and you'll find their page and
Speaker 1: you can follow his trout fishing exploits, you can follow
Speaker 1: the arguments of his critics and defenders. That seems well worthwhile.
Speaker 3: Must not be a lot going on in town, but.
Speaker 1: It reminds it a little bit reminds me of another
Speaker 1: famous another uh reminds me a little bit of the
Speaker 1: round Paula Buck in Mitch Ron Paula's legacy of giant Bucks,
Speaker 1: in that it like, here's this guy, like well giant
Speaker 1: buck and then buck after buck after buck, right, and
Speaker 1: people are like, why I don't get bucks like that?
Speaker 1: How could he be getting these bucks? There must be
Speaker 1: something going on. He posts another bock, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there's a level of success where you just go,
Speaker 8: uh really, you know, Yeah, that's exactly what I thought
Speaker 8: when you were talking about that. I'm like, in the
Speaker 8: hunting industry, every once in a while, somebody will all
Speaker 8: of a sudden be just you know, one eighties two
Speaker 8: hundred's in a situation just on fire, yeah, where you're
Speaker 8: like really like four of them in a season kind
Speaker 8: of thing. And sometimes when that happens, eventually you find
Speaker 8: out that it's just there's some shenanigans going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm not saying that Trent here.
Speaker 8: Is right now, no accusations. There's just a level of success.
Speaker 4: This reminds me of my high school days because we
Speaker 4: used to go help stock the rivers around my area
Speaker 4: and then we kind of knew what holds the fish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was not but this would be brood stock.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 1: He's fishing stockers, he's fishing eight inches. He's fishing eight
Speaker 1: inch rainbow.
Speaker 5: They always dump in double worn out.
Speaker 8: Ones, dirty dog, Trent, but who cares dirty identifiable though.
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean they got warm by midsummer anyway.
Speaker 1: They don't live the broodstock when you don't mean if
Speaker 1: they because they're not naturally reproduced.
Speaker 4: So they can find a spot where there's some cold water.
Speaker 4: But at least around Pennsylvania. In some areas, some some streams,
Speaker 4: it just gets too warm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have a quick poetry contest. If people go,
Speaker 1: and if people don't mind, like go type in what
Speaker 1: are you supposed to type.
Speaker 7: In Middle Mountains sporting goods.
Speaker 1: Yep, so middle Mountain sporting goods. If you want to
Speaker 1: write a.
Speaker 7: Poem, this is in Elkins, West Virginia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, write a poem about Trent. Send it in. We'll
Speaker 1: judge the best poem. We'll send him a present. And
Speaker 1: then and then if Trent, if you want to call in,
Speaker 1: I'd love to have you call in and talk about
Speaker 1: your experience. Is that all fair? All right, let's go
Speaker 1: around the room and introduce everybody.
Speaker 9: Danny Well, Danny Thompson obviously you know, work for a
Speaker 9: Garma Marine from andover Minnesota and fishing enthusiasts, been in
Speaker 9: the industry now for like ten years, I guess in
Speaker 9: the fishing business.
Speaker 1: So do they know what you're here?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, you told them, Oh yeah. Did they express any
Speaker 1: kind of reticence that you would come on and express opinions?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No, okay, supportive? Yeah, good deal. Sweet Well.
Speaker 2: I'm Jeremy Smith. I work for Lender Media Productions. We
Speaker 2: make fishing content, so we specialize in making sport fishing
Speaker 2: content in the Upper Midwest and Canada and avidat so
Speaker 2: I also would be representing a technology company in many
Speaker 2: regards with Johnson Outdoors there a customer of ours.
Speaker 3: So yeah.
Speaker 2: So Danny and I both have that connection to technology.
Speaker 1: And Linda is the Lindy Rig.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like Ellander yep.
Speaker 1: Can you explain that the owners of it, because I
Speaker 1: think people will know maybe people would well when I
Speaker 1: say people like me, for instance, I grew up knowing
Speaker 1: the Lindy Rig, sure, and then only later it was
Speaker 1: like oh oh Linder.
Speaker 2: Linder yeah ye. So yeah. The Linner family founded they
Speaker 2: made the Lindy Rig famously and then in Fishermen magazine,
Speaker 2: which turned into in Fisherman Television, and then in the
Speaker 2: late nineties they sold that company and then started another
Speaker 2: company called Linder Media, and so they've had that business
Speaker 2: for about twenty two years. I've been there for almost
Speaker 2: twenty of it.
Speaker 1: So it's fun. Yeah, Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 2: I get to fish all over, so it's like fishing.
Speaker 2: It's a good job.
Speaker 1: Seth.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If now I gotta say this here, Seth is a
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even I've fished this this emerging technology with Seth. Mhm, Seth,
Speaker 1: would you regard yourself as an enthusiast or suspicious?
Speaker 4: I like using it, but I think there's because it works.
Speaker 4: I have I have mixed opinions. Yeah, I think there's
Speaker 4: there's at times you gotta be real careful certain things,
Speaker 4: and then other times it's real fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The first thing, if you're listening at home, the
Speaker 1: first thing we're gonna do after these intros is someone
Speaker 1: is gonna explain what we're talking about. Yeah, someone's gonna
Speaker 1: explain like like a sort of an impartial explanation of
Speaker 1: what is live scope. And I have gone with Seth
Speaker 1: live scoping walleyes and you're able to sharpshoot specific individual
Speaker 1: fish Yep, you're able to be like, no, he's like
Speaker 1: ten feet to the right, no.
Speaker 3: Little little cast a little further.
Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, he's face and left Yep, yeah, grin.
Speaker 7: I've used it once. Ice fishing I did. It was
Speaker 7: it was cool to be able to look in the
Speaker 7: hole as one window and then look on the screen
Speaker 7: as another window for you know, information as to what
Speaker 7: was going on.
Speaker 1: Did you catch fishy? Otherwise wouldn't have caught uh?
Speaker 7: I don't think so, because you know, like in a
Speaker 7: small hole in the ice, there's I mean, we weren't
Speaker 7: spearing for anything. It was just our line was down there.
Speaker 7: So not really.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you technology that lets you catch fishy otherwise
Speaker 1: wouldn't have caught ice fishing is underwater camera. When they
Speaker 1: go to mouth, it like sometimes their mouth something that
Speaker 1: you would have never even registered to hit, and like
Speaker 1: one you're like, nowh.
Speaker 5: Ford facing sonar isn't that far off from an underwater
Speaker 5: camp really.
Speaker 1: Right, I'll tell you real quick.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you fishing canyon Ferry through the ice for
Speaker 4: perch that some days I wish I didn't have ford
Speaker 4: facing sonar because you see those fish come right up
Speaker 4: to your.
Speaker 3: Bait and then just swim away, and you're.
Speaker 4: Like, I would rather not just assume that there's nothing
Speaker 4: going on down there.
Speaker 1: You'd get home a lot of earlier. What You're like, dude,
Speaker 1: they're down there, yeah.
Speaker 8: Tony, Tony Peterson. I have actually have a weird connection
Speaker 8: to both of these fellows. Danny and I live in
Speaker 8: the same town. So every once in a while, be
Speaker 8: at like a dance class with my daughters, there's something
Speaker 8: to look over, and he'll be standing there because his
Speaker 8: daughter's in the same class, which is weird. And then
Speaker 8: I used to work in the in Fisherman office. Oh
Speaker 8: so I started out as a fishing writer. My first gig,
Speaker 8: like real full time gig was as an editor for
Speaker 8: Peterson's Bow Hunting magazine, and we were in the in
Speaker 8: Fisherman office.
Speaker 1: So cool. Which which one of them is smarter? Well,
Speaker 1: we'll find out find out.
Speaker 8: But I'm this is a topic that I'm like crazy
Speaker 8: interested in.
Speaker 1: Are you using the technology?
Speaker 8: I don't have it on my boat, but I've used
Speaker 8: my tournament partner has it, I've used it. I'm I don't.
Speaker 8: I literally am kind of agnostic on it. I have
Speaker 8: one foot in each camp because I can see. I
Speaker 8: can see where I think it's going, and I feel
Speaker 8: like when it comes down in price and the average
Speaker 8: walleye guy gets it where I live, it could be
Speaker 8: a could impact the resource. But I'm also like real,
Speaker 8: I don't like taking stuff away without a really good reason.
Speaker 1: Tell your story. Yeah, you know how drones and hunting,
Speaker 1: and now guys are putting thermal on drones supposedly for recovery.
Speaker 1: Who is telling us recently? Some guy they know already.
Speaker 1: It's like, if you know where a white tail buckets,
Speaker 1: it's not you're gonna sneak in and kill it out
Speaker 1: of its bed right, Just that doesn't really You're not
Speaker 1: gonna crawl up on a bedded whitetail and kill it.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe once in a lifetime. But when he's
Speaker 1: setting up, he flies his area to see where deer bedded,
Speaker 1: and that influences where he sets up to pick them
Speaker 1: off coming out of their beds. So already, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't like that. When you like, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's like, oh, no, my buddy
Speaker 1: lost the buck I'm just trying to find it.
Speaker 8: Well, I mean you think about that and say it.
Speaker 8: Say the difference between a big woods hunt, you know,
Speaker 8: low deer density or whatever, or fly you know, fly drone,
Speaker 8: there would be a different thing. Think about like a
Speaker 8: cattail slew or a western like western Minnesota, where you
Speaker 8: could be like that dude's betted in that little willow
Speaker 8: patch there. We're gonna go push him out, or I'm
Speaker 8: gonna go sit up over him.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 8: So it's the wind doing this right there, right, yeah?
Speaker 8: So I yeah, there are ways you could put that
Speaker 8: to you. I mean we were talking about turkeys earlier.
Speaker 8: I mean you could probably find a roost. I've never
Speaker 8: used a drone with the infrared on it. Oh, but god,
Speaker 8: you could probably find a roost and be like, we
Speaker 8: got birds right there, you know.
Speaker 1: Sure, browdy, Brody is brody?
Speaker 5: Yep, I'm brody.
Speaker 1: You're probably torn.
Speaker 5: I'm torn. I don't have it on my boat, Like
Speaker 5: I fish a lot for while. I perch around here
Speaker 5: all summer long with my boys, and I've been tempted,
Speaker 5: but I haven't. I haven't gotten it because mostly because
Speaker 5: I don't want to be staring at that screen all
Speaker 5: day long. And it's not like this like war against
Speaker 5: screens necessarily, but it's like you go out fishing and
Speaker 5: the whole day goes by and you haven't like, yeah,
Speaker 5: it's just and we do alright with that? You know
Speaker 5: what I mean?
Speaker 1: You don't find Uh, Okay, this is the last thing
Speaker 1: I can say before we explain what it is we're
Speaker 1: talking about. This is interesting bass. So professional bass Circuit
Speaker 1: they've limited competitors to one LS transducer in fifty five
Speaker 1: inches of screen space. Te does that mean let's explain
Speaker 1: what it is first? That's too complicated. Who's gonna explain
Speaker 1: what the hell it is? Danny.
Speaker 6: I'll give it a shot, but don't get.
Speaker 1: Into whether it's gonna end the world or not.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 9: So basically, if we look back at sonar and what
Speaker 9: we're running in our boats and whatnot, you know, traditionally
Speaker 9: we'd have traditional sonar, like two D sonar. We're kind
Speaker 9: of sending a ping down to the bottom. It's coming back.
Speaker 9: If it comes back with something like a fish, it
Speaker 9: might look like an arc, or we might get bottom
Speaker 9: something like that. But it was all basically history, right,
Speaker 9: So we'd market whatever sort On the right hand side
Speaker 9: of our screen there would be most recent and then
Speaker 9: it kind of scroll across the screen. Oh okay, look
Speaker 9: we went over a rock pile, maybe went over what
Speaker 9: we thought was.
Speaker 6: A big walleye.
Speaker 1: What was the delay?
Speaker 9: I mean it you know, it depends on how fast
Speaker 9: you're going and all that kind of stuff. But let's say,
Speaker 9: you know, get to the middle of the screen. It
Speaker 9: might have been you know, five to fifteen seconds ago.
Speaker 9: Depending on how fast we're going, it could have been
Speaker 9: second ago. If we're going fast, right. But now with
Speaker 9: live sonar, what we're doing is we're basically taking like
Speaker 9: scanning sonar, so it's almost gonna be more of like
Speaker 9: a side imaging image or a down imaging image. We're
Speaker 9: speeding it up really fast, and then on top of it,
Speaker 9: what you're able to do is get a really wide
Speaker 9: cone angle. So with traditional sonar were maybe seven to
Speaker 9: sixteen degrees, so the coverage of the bottom not only
Speaker 9: was it like historical, we might only be covering anywhere
Speaker 9: from five to you know, ten feet to the bottom.
Speaker 9: Maybe that's all we're seeing now with a live scope transducer.
Speaker 9: Let's just say in this case, I have it mounted
Speaker 9: on my trolling motor. I have one hundred and thirty
Speaker 9: five degree cone angle by twenty degrees, So if I'm
Speaker 9: sitting on a lake like Malas on the mudflats. I
Speaker 9: can look backwards let's say twenty five feet, and I
Speaker 9: can look forward up to two hundred feet, you know,
Speaker 9: And and obviously you know it's stepth dependance. So the
Speaker 9: shallower we go, the less distance that we can see,
Speaker 9: the deeper we are kind of the better the image
Speaker 9: really gets.
Speaker 1: And what is tell folks about at what depths does
Speaker 1: it become irrelevant? Like what are the technology now allows
Speaker 1: you to fish? Not one hundred feet? Right?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean we could go you know, I was
Speaker 9: trout fishing up in Canada, and we can see down
Speaker 9: past one hundred feet of water, really, you know. And
Speaker 9: then there's there's other transducers now, like we've got an
Speaker 9: XR that will work like saltwater, you know, so you
Speaker 9: can get down to like five hundred feet fresh water
Speaker 9: and three hundred feet saltwater.
Speaker 1: I was on the fence, but now I'm like firmly
Speaker 1: in the podcast over as soon as you said three
Speaker 1: hundred feet of salt water. But because that's like mystery
Speaker 1: land down there.
Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, but and it's live, you know. And then
Speaker 9: as we go shallow, we actually have what we call
Speaker 9: like a perspective mode, so we can kind of take
Speaker 9: that cone angle and turn it on its side, so
Speaker 9: to speak.
Speaker 6: So we're gonna be twenty degrees up and down.
Speaker 9: We're gonna be one hundred and thirty five or technically
Speaker 9: one hundred and fifty kind of that left and right.
Speaker 9: So now when we get in that under ten feet
Speaker 9: of water, we can still get our distance, but it's
Speaker 9: not like you don't you can't see your bait dropping
Speaker 9: as well, you know, the fish, the image isn't quite
Speaker 9: as good as it is like in the forward mode.
Speaker 5: And for people that aren't familiar, like you can point
Speaker 5: that thing too where you want it.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So like like in this example, I'm in a
Speaker 9: bass boat, right and I have it on my trolling motor.
Speaker 9: Wherever my trolling motor is pointed is where that image
Speaker 9: is looking, you know. And then that's why we picked
Speaker 9: that twenty degree cone angle. So if we're flipping docks
Speaker 9: or I'm you know, throwing a bait into some millfoil,
Speaker 9: or I'm scoping wall with slip bobbers, when I see
Speaker 9: that fish seventy five feet out and I make that cast,
Speaker 9: if we were to go wider, we're not able to
Speaker 9: be accurate, so we keep it twenty degrees, so that
Speaker 9: when we throw that bait, the bait's gonna land relatively
Speaker 9: close to that fish if I can land in a
Speaker 9: twenty degree cone angle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Jeremy. Okay, here's what here. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get a lot more chance to talk. But the what's
Speaker 1: good about it is pretty obvious helps you catch fish.
Speaker 1: All right, Jeremy, if you wouldn't mind, Now that he's
Speaker 1: explained what the technology is, can you articulate some like
Speaker 1: what is this? What are the concerns the anglers should
Speaker 1: be considering as we as we make up our minds
Speaker 1: about this technology. And I just want to remind people,
Speaker 1: and before you go, I want to preface this by
Speaker 1: saying just just to just to give the historical context
Speaker 1: and fisheries, wildlife management, fisheries management, there is since the
Speaker 1: beginning of fisheries management, and since the beginning of wildlife management,
Speaker 1: we have regulated technologies net size, mesh size, use of explosives,
Speaker 1: use of poisons, use of electronics. We make it that
Speaker 1: sometimes a year you can't fish. We tell people how
Speaker 1: many fish they can have, how big a fish they
Speaker 1: can have. We distinguish between whether you're a resident or
Speaker 1: non resident, like we regulate the piss out of hunt
Speaker 1: and fishing. Just to set the this is not like
Speaker 1: you know this, This can be a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but this can't be a issue of is it fair
Speaker 1: to regulate fisheries? Yeah, because we regulate the hell out
Speaker 1: of fish. Okay, So I just wanted that's I'm just
Speaker 1: telling for the audience, like any question I think is
Speaker 1: fair by Mike, but it should start with the knowledge
Speaker 1: that we always are weighing impacts on impacts on resource.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you hit on a topic right away that
Speaker 2: I think was good. So in terms of technology, like phishing,
Speaker 2: hasn't really looked at tech and said, you know, like
Speaker 2: this this tech is out of bounds. I mean we
Speaker 2: have with dynamite for example, but electronics technology for example.
Speaker 1: So like you can't think of an example.
Speaker 2: I can't. So nobody said like you can't have side
Speaker 2: imaging or down imaging or mapping is out of bounds.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So, but with hunting, you had a good point earlier
Speaker 2: on Steve that like you've got this adoption rate when
Speaker 2: this technology comes on board, where you get a big
Speaker 2: user group that loves it, right, and then others are
Speaker 2: concerned about it. So in terms of regulating something beyond that,
Speaker 2: that becomes really difficult. So to me, one of the
Speaker 2: biggest places of concern. And I know you love these critters, Steve,
Speaker 2: with Larry ramsel On here is muskies.
Speaker 1: Yeah right.
Speaker 2: I also want to ask if you got Larry's girlfriend
Speaker 2: with your bluegill bobber Biteley.
Speaker 1: You know what, though, I think I need I realize
Speaker 1: he invited me to go musky fishing. Yeah yeah, but
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever legitimately caught a musky. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even yeah, even after talking to him. Okayer, muskies which
Speaker 1: don't count.
Speaker 2: Well, they're cool, they're super cool fish. But yeah, so
Speaker 2: muskies in my opinion, like they're they have low reproductive rates,
Speaker 2: they get really big, they tend to suspend an open water,
Speaker 2: so they're really easy to see with this technology. So
Speaker 2: muskies aren't in my opinion, awesome, right, they've been a fish.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to catch. You gotta bust your ass
Speaker 2: to catch them. They live in cool places. There's all
Speaker 2: this cool culture around musky fishing, making lures and you know,
Speaker 2: just the mystique of it. And so now with the
Speaker 2: technology like this, you know, to encounter one has been
Speaker 2: historically really cool. Now you talk to a dude like,
Speaker 2: how'd you do today, It's like, oh, we got ten
Speaker 2: any big ones? Oh yeah, we got you know, four
Speaker 2: over fifty Like what?
Speaker 1: No way?
Speaker 2: Like you can put this tech down and drive, you know,
Speaker 2: cross sections of a lake and be like, we're not
Speaker 2: fishing until we see one. You don't even bother with
Speaker 2: troll Like that's completely a waste of time now because
Speaker 2: you just use this tech to find the fish cast
Speaker 2: at them boom.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: So muskie anglers like have a huge problem with this, right,
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: The traditional musky anglers you bet yeah.
Speaker 2: And I would say, you know, not all of course,
Speaker 2: but a large percentage of them are saying, hey, man, like,
Speaker 2: you know, we've had I'm sorry to go to Minnesota
Speaker 2: here for this example, but it's what I know is
Speaker 2: like we've had a history of what I would say
Speaker 2: poor management of muskies since early two thousands, where we've
Speaker 2: lost a number of our stock fisheries, the numbers of
Speaker 2: fish that we have, which has forced a lot of
Speaker 2: pressure on our native fisheries. Because the stock fisheries that
Speaker 2: they built, they built this big group of anglers who
Speaker 2: love participating in the sport. The fish aren't necessarily there anymore,
Speaker 2: so we're putting all this pressure on our native fisheries.
Speaker 1: Can I ask what's happened to those fish?
Speaker 2: It's been a stocking issue and we've had issues with
Speaker 2: the politics around it. We had a bunch of people
Speaker 2: back maybe ten years ago that just hated muskies and
Speaker 2: so got to be this political climate where it just
Speaker 2: became difficult to get fish. We've had problems raising.
Speaker 1: Because they were mowing on.
Speaker 2: They eat everything, which.
Speaker 8: Obviously is not true when you get that that was
Speaker 8: the thought that was like the narrative used against muskies.
Speaker 8: Was it that that they're eating the walleyes and the
Speaker 8: walleyes are more valuable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But the bottom line is when you've got these
Speaker 2: big predators and systems like, you've got a really quality fishery.
Speaker 2: Like we know that right prices are muskies have big
Speaker 2: pike live. There's just good fishing if you want a
Speaker 2: quality fishery.
Speaker 1: So so there aren't many bad fishing lakes that just
Speaker 1: have giant muskies everywhere. No, they're all amazing, Yeah, big
Speaker 1: muskies in them, so they go hand in hand with
Speaker 1: good fish.
Speaker 2: They do, They definitely do so leech, like, for example,
Speaker 2: which is one of our native fisheries. It's a place
Speaker 2: where we get all the broodstock for muskies. I was
Speaker 2: on this like crusade throughout the winter having done this,
Speaker 2: like just to give you an example of how powerful
Speaker 2: this technology is. It's like, oh, you know, we know
Speaker 2: that these fish are out in these open water basins,
Speaker 2: and it's like these big, huge, expansive areas that essentially,
Speaker 2: like from a wildlife side, you would look at, this
Speaker 2: area is basically functionally remote, just because the technology would
Speaker 2: allow us to access these fish or these fisheries with
Speaker 2: any you know, precision, any efficiency, really inefficient, inefficient means
Speaker 2: of targeting fish. So now you go out there. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna take my ten year
Speaker 2: old kid out there. Half hour boom, two fifty inch muskies.
Speaker 2: You know, Like what, no, man, Like I've done this
Speaker 2: for thirty years, Like this doesn't happen. Talk to my buddy,
Speaker 2: you know, Oh yeah, we got thirty one in the
Speaker 2: last four days, Like what any one? Yeah, the smallest
Speaker 2: was forty seven. You're going, dude, this is nuts. Now
Speaker 2: there's thirty boats out here and this has never been fished,
Speaker 2: like what does this mean? And there's dead fish floating right,
Speaker 2: So that okay.
Speaker 8: That's the concern. It's not that it's easy, and not
Speaker 8: that it became much easier than it traditionally was to
Speaker 8: catch a muskie. It's that now that it's so efficient
Speaker 8: to catch them, the mortality rate is going to go
Speaker 8: way up and the resource is going to be in
Speaker 8: real trouble if it goes the way it looks.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it could be mortality rate, but you also
Speaker 2: have to look at this as like the opportunities, So
Speaker 2: it is going to it is going to condense opportunities
Speaker 2: right to those who have the technology versus so because
Speaker 2: you're trying to recycle these opportunities. Right with muskies, you're
Speaker 2: not looking for a harvest component of this. You want
Speaker 2: you want to fish to stay in the system. So
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, let's just just make up a number,
Speaker 2: Say there's one hundred opportunities for muskie. If you're condensing
Speaker 2: all those to June at the beginning of the season.
Speaker 2: With people using this technology, the outcome for the angler
Speaker 2: who wants to go throw it a weed better rock
Speaker 2: pile is now different, right, that opportunity has gone to this,
Speaker 2: you know, driving around not fishing until you see a fish.
Speaker 2: So there's a group of anglers that are like, hey man,
Speaker 2: not only could this be killing a lot of big
Speaker 2: fish that are hard to replace in our native fisheries,
Speaker 2: we also like to go just cast and suffer, you know,
Speaker 2: do all this hard work, Like we really appreciate the
Speaker 2: suffering of this or the reward is big and that's
Speaker 2: changing the outcome for us, and we want to do
Speaker 2: something about it.
Speaker 1: No, I'm back to being against it, Dan And I
Speaker 1: think here's one in my shopping cart at the end
Speaker 1: of the episode. I'm gonna hit by or not.
Speaker 9: And me and Jeremy got to talk about this a lot,
Speaker 9: and we're actually both on a panel with the Minnesota
Speaker 9: DNR where we actually do get to somewhat discussed this
Speaker 9: a little bit, you know, which is a new thing.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what's the panel so.
Speaker 9: And and Jeremy's probably better on explaining that I've only
Speaker 9: made it to the one summit that we just had
Speaker 9: recently got like appointed to it.
Speaker 2: But so the Minnesota DANARE are has these like species
Speaker 2: or interest work groups or they've got stakeholders that meet
Speaker 2: with the agency and you come up with some ideas
Speaker 2: of you know, what do we want to do for
Speaker 2: better management for panfish or wall eye or musky. In
Speaker 2: this case, they've got one technology, so.
Speaker 9: They do they do recently, and they have one I
Speaker 9: must too, so you know, they kind of go hand
Speaker 9: in hand there. Obviously in Minnesota, is.
Speaker 1: The technology one focused on a broad spectrum of technologies
Speaker 1: or is it basically they're talking.
Speaker 9: About live It felt like we're basically talking live scope
Speaker 9: at this point. I mean that that is the most
Speaker 9: pressing issue when when you're talking technology and fishing right now.
Speaker 1: Can I throw there's one that I know is Ryland.
Speaker 1: Folks up, I'm not We're not going to get it.
Speaker 1: We don't need to like debate this because this is
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. But dropping baits the drones, yeah,
Speaker 1: is becoming relevant in a couple pursuits dropping baits into
Speaker 1: bait balls where you can instead of getting a boat
Speaker 1: real close where you got to start spooking fishing bait balls,
Speaker 1: you have a drone fly out and can drop a
Speaker 1: live bait onto a bait ball. And then you used
Speaker 1: to be a thing like surf casting. You'd keep a
Speaker 1: boat and then you'd run out and drop where you
Speaker 1: want and now guys just sticking them where they want them.
Speaker 1: So maybe you guys can argue about that new little
Speaker 1: thing but go back down.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 9: But basically, I mean, I feel like, you know, and
Speaker 9: to kind of touch on the first point we've talked about.
Speaker 9: Me and Jeremy got to talk a lot, obviously, at
Speaker 9: the end of the day, like nobody wants to do
Speaker 9: what's wrong for the fisheries, right, and I feel like
Speaker 9: everybody's opinion and this is this is the point that
Speaker 9: you know, we always talk about, and like me and
Speaker 9: him talked about yesterday is you know, a lot of
Speaker 9: it is coming down to ethics, right, But everybody's ethics
Speaker 9: can be a little bit different on what we want
Speaker 9: to do. And at the end of the day, I
Speaker 9: don't think any outdoor industry company wants to do what's
Speaker 9: wrong for any other species. Like we want people to
Speaker 9: catch fish. We want to make superior products that help
Speaker 9: people catch more fish and you know, have more opportunity.
Speaker 9: So if we go in and we're devastating a fishery
Speaker 9: like a muskie, that's very easy with this technology. I
Speaker 9: don't think anybody necessarily wants to do that. But I
Speaker 9: think what's important is we want to make decisions sort
Speaker 9: of based on science, sort of based on you know,
Speaker 9: facts and that sort of stuff, and not necessarily on
Speaker 9: a motion, right, because everybody in this room, right might
Speaker 9: have a different opinion on what is good and what isn't.
Speaker 9: And some people might like traditional fishing versus some people,
Speaker 9: like you know, we in this room were all around
Speaker 9: the same age. I'd say, we grew up in an
Speaker 9: age where like fishing meant and we're talking yesterday, Like
Speaker 9: I got a handheld GPS that I'd navigate out on
Speaker 9: the lake with. Well, my dad would mark a tree
Speaker 9: and a cabin and that was his method of mapping
Speaker 9: the lake right, right, and then ice fishing. You know,
Speaker 9: I was in college during the crappy boom on Red
Speaker 9: Lake and like I got a flasher and thought that
Speaker 9: this was you know, that was the end. I was
Speaker 9: gonna catch a limit every single time. But you know
Speaker 9: that isn't always the case either, right, And you know
Speaker 9: I always talk about like bast Master Classic this year
Speaker 9: got the best of the best. They got the best
Speaker 9: of the best equipment when it comes to electronics and
Speaker 9: all that stuff, and some of these guys still can't
Speaker 9: catch a limit of fish. They're the best anglers out there,
Speaker 9: you know, So like there's certain use cases, yeah where
Speaker 9: like I think it might be smart to maybe look
Speaker 9: towards some stuff, but also like just being careful that
Speaker 9: in the overall broader picture, fishing is huge, right, and
Speaker 9: just making sure we're making the right decisions because at
Speaker 9: the end of the day too, and this is the
Speaker 9: case I think for everything from white tail deer to
Speaker 9: wolves to fish, it's not one thing that's killing these
Speaker 9: fish or ruining a fishery. It's always kind of that
Speaker 9: death of a thousand cuts. Yeah, right, So like, not
Speaker 9: only do we have really good technology, we have really
Speaker 9: good boats now and really fast motors and you know
Speaker 9: good the two D sonar is better than it's ever been.
Speaker 9: Side imaging is like, you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 9: you know, things that can lead to you know, the
Speaker 9: detriment of a fishery.
Speaker 1: I want to hit you guys with a couple of
Speaker 1: clarifying questions then we'll get into more opinion. Uh, none
Speaker 1: of us is probably none of us is old enough
Speaker 1: to remember, and it was pre internet. Was I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask about the advent of just fish finders sonar.
Speaker 1: None of us is old enough to remember, and it
Speaker 1: was pre internet, so there wasn't like a place for
Speaker 1: people just to like regurgitate opinions. So you don't really know.
Speaker 1: But I remember being a kid out on We used
Speaker 1: to troll out of salmon in Lake Michigan, and I
Speaker 1: remember the graph paper. Sure, yeah, you had that pencil
Speaker 1: and you can go home with a big role. It
Speaker 1: was like the day of fishing captured on a roll.
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish I could recall what if that
Speaker 1: was pointed out as was that argued about.
Speaker 2: It was actually legislation in the seventies regarding that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I thought that was going to be a big,
Speaker 2: big problem in crash fisheries for sure.
Speaker 1: That was debated. It was yeah, okay. The other clarifying
Speaker 1: question is, how have just just to help further set
Speaker 1: the situation up, how have the governing bodies of competitive fishing,
Speaker 1: what has been their attitude about it?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, obviously bass fishing is the big umbrella, right,
Speaker 9: So in walleye fishing, it's kind of business as usual
Speaker 9: at this point, right, But in bass fishing, you know,
Speaker 9: there's a few different main you know leagues, I guess
Speaker 9: that people fish, and it's almost like all three of
Speaker 9: them sort of went went a different route. And so
Speaker 9: you've got one that said okay, no forward facing sonar.
Speaker 9: Who is doing it would be NPFL. And then we've
Speaker 9: got the Major League Fishing Series where they're going to
Speaker 9: allow it for like one of their periods. They'll split
Speaker 9: up the tournament into different periods, and so okay, one
Speaker 9: of them.
Speaker 1: That's a great little test right there. Yeah, that's almost
Speaker 1: like research. Yeah right, that's like ab.
Speaker 9: And then bass Master actually is allowing like one one
Speaker 9: live scope on the boat, you know.
Speaker 6: And that's sort of new this year.
Speaker 9: So last year was was in the years prior was
Speaker 9: sort of free for all. So that's why they're limiting
Speaker 9: the number of screens and the number of live scopes,
Speaker 9: because what people were doing is putting live scopes, say
Speaker 9: on the back of the boat and using it for
Speaker 9: side imaging. And now you're getting live side imaging, and
Speaker 9: you had guys that were running you know, four graphs
Speaker 9: on the dash five upfront, and so they just said, okay,
Speaker 9: we're gonna bring this down a little bit and we'll
Speaker 9: see what happened after this year, right, this will be
Speaker 9: a good learning year to see what happens. But as
Speaker 9: they go nothing, yeah, okay, And as you go around
Speaker 9: the country, you know, like he's speaking with the muskies
Speaker 9: and speaking with different fish, like different fisheries and different
Speaker 9: fish are more susceptible to it. So like when we
Speaker 9: go up north, when we're doing a small mall tournament,
Speaker 9: a lot of times it turns into a scoping tournament, right,
Speaker 9: But like when we're down south and the guys are
Speaker 9: learning how to use four facing son or even in
Speaker 9: the south, like just left Lake Fork and a lot
Speaker 9: of guys are scoping there, but a lot of guys
Speaker 9: are fishing traditionally as well.
Speaker 1: Man, I want to applaud whoever came up with the
Speaker 1: idea of doing some days with and some days without
Speaker 1: to be so fascinating just to compare the aggregate the
Speaker 1: aggregate poundages taken on those days, that's an interesting little test, man.
Speaker 1: All right, let me heet you with an opinion one
Speaker 1: A way, I've always looked at things that the influence
Speaker 1: efficacy is that we have a our resources occurr in
Speaker 1: a limited pool, okay, and the way we allocate resources
Speaker 1: is dependent on success rates, meaning just to put in
Speaker 1: the simplest terms. Let's say you have I'm gonna put
Speaker 1: in a I'm gonna put it in a big game term,
Speaker 1: and I'm someone at the table hopefully can come up
Speaker 1: with a fishing analogy and big game. Let's say you
Speaker 1: have a unit of space. Okay, you have a However
Speaker 1: you divide it up. You have a region or a
Speaker 1: unit or a mountain range. Let's say you have a
Speaker 1: mountain range and on this mountain range you have one
Speaker 1: hundred elk. You've determined that you're gonna pursue a ten
Speaker 1: percent harvest rate on those elk. So you're saying, we're
Speaker 1: going to kill ten of those elk. We know that
Speaker 1: our hunters traditionally have a ten percent success rate. Therefore,
Speaker 1: we're gonna give one hundred individuals a hunting opportunity in
Speaker 1: those mountains because we're going to wind up hitting our
Speaker 1: harvest objective. If we look at this historic efficacy, then
Speaker 1: let's say you were to go to that mountain range
Speaker 1: and you say, we're gonna try something new this year. Boys,
Speaker 1: we're going to give out one hundred tags. You can
Speaker 1: hunt at night, you can spotlight, you can drone you
Speaker 1: can thermal hunt, you can mount a firearm to a drone. Okay, unlimited.
Speaker 1: We're going to make the season three hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: five days long. Now you turn out that you have
Speaker 1: a ninety success rate, ten percent of dudes don't show
Speaker 1: up ninety percent success rate. The next year when you
Speaker 1: issue tags, you're like, you know what, I think that
Speaker 1: we're going to have to do this. We're going to
Speaker 1: have to issue eleven tags, not one hundred, because efficacy
Speaker 1: has shot through the roof. So now eleven people will
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to participate as opposed to one hundred
Speaker 1: people having an opportunity to participate. The question to each
Speaker 1: of you is do you feel in fishing there could
Speaker 1: be a similar situation at play where you're going to
Speaker 1: feel you used to be able to keep five, but
Speaker 1: no one really caught five. Now you can keep two
Speaker 1: or whatever the hell do you picture? Or to put
Speaker 1: it to an ethical question, it's two parts. Will this
Speaker 1: could this become a thing in fishing? And would you
Speaker 1: regard that as an acceptable cost of the of using
Speaker 1: the technology? So will it happen? And would you support
Speaker 1: it happening.
Speaker 6: I'll let Jeremy go first.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you hit on just a great point here.
Speaker 2: So you know this is where in hunting, I mean,
Speaker 2: you guys know the efficacy of a spear, of a
Speaker 2: long bow, of a compound bowl, of a cross bowl,
Speaker 2: of an open site rifle. So all these technologies obviously
Speaker 2: can add to the efficiency of a harvest or you know,
Speaker 2: a harvest opportunity or a catch in the case of fishing.
Speaker 2: So we're asking the question right now in fishing that
Speaker 2: kind of drives me nuts a little bit, like does
Speaker 2: forward facing sonar impact catch traits? Like we have no
Speaker 2: idea what the answer is, And of course the answer
Speaker 2: is yes. But it's variable, right, It doesn't it doesn't
Speaker 2: happen every time, but it can obviously, and it can
Speaker 2: make a make a big impact. So we're gonna address this.
Speaker 2: Sorry to get off track here, We're gonna address this
Speaker 2: a little bit like we want to we want to
Speaker 2: look at data, We want to look at science to
Speaker 2: answer please answer this question right. So, and I'm not
Speaker 2: at all against science, but I'm gonna just say that
Speaker 2: the means in which technology is improving and the adoption
Speaker 2: rate with anglers is happening is massively outpacing any regulatory
Speaker 2: processes that can happen, the way we collect data, the
Speaker 2: way we analyze data, the way we implement what we
Speaker 2: learn from that data. So, like a good example in Minnesota,
Speaker 2: I've got a buddy who's on this bluegill committee. Right,
Speaker 2: So for like ten years, they're even longer than they've
Speaker 2: met saying they're like, hey, you know, we're losing the
Speaker 2: big bluegills in Minnesota. This is far before forward facing
Speaker 2: so or even side imaging, right, just the big blue
Speaker 2: gills are disappearing, they're being harvested. We want to tech
Speaker 2: the big blue gills. We want to have a quality
Speaker 2: bluegill fishery in this state. So they talk about it
Speaker 2: for ten years. Clearly the best solution is to not
Speaker 2: harvest the big bluegills, just keep the big ones in
Speaker 2: the system, keeps recruitment low, all these great benefits to it.
Speaker 1: So which would which is complicated because you're introducing the
Speaker 1: idea of a bluegill slot limit?
Speaker 2: Okay, right, yes exactly. Let me let me get to
Speaker 2: why this is so complicated. So this is clearly the
Speaker 2: you know, that's that's the answer. So they talk about
Speaker 2: it for years. Eventually they come up with the idea
Speaker 2: that you know what we're gonna do. We're gonna take
Speaker 2: some likes and we're just gonna keep less. Well that's
Speaker 2: not the answer. The answer is don't keep the big ones. Right,
Speaker 2: So now in five years now, and they're gonna take
Speaker 2: ten years to assess that to see what the impact
Speaker 2: was and a reduce bag. And now they're talking about
Speaker 2: once that's up, we're gonna look at doing like a
Speaker 2: nine inch you know, maximum size harvest. So this is
Speaker 2: going to be like a twenty five year process to
Speaker 2: use this science to identify, like look back twenty five
Speaker 2: years where we're at. So I'm not saying that science
Speaker 2: isn't wrong, we shouldn't look at it, we shouldn't use it.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying we also need to look at how
Speaker 2: this is a social science issue as well. But like
Speaker 2: there's just some places or people who don't maybe want
Speaker 2: this type of technology or as much advanced technology coming
Speaker 2: into certain areas of the sport. So it's a it's
Speaker 2: not a you can't have live scope, no more live
Speaker 2: scope for anybody you know, or you can't have it,
Speaker 2: But like we've got a lot of opportunities to experience,
Speaker 2: experiment with different resources where we could use it, when
Speaker 2: we could use it special regulate. We've got all these
Speaker 2: opportunities that I think we really need to be looking
Speaker 2: at more, starting with a social component, you know, saying, Okay,
Speaker 2: we know we've got groups of anglers. Let's listen to anglers.
Speaker 2: Let's try to manage for what the user's expectations are
Speaker 2: and want as we work on the science in the background.
Speaker 5: So, has there been any like knee jerk regulatory actions
Speaker 5: taken like anywhere yet?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Montana said no, rattlefish naggling, right, yeah, and.
Speaker 9: A few states have lowered you know, catch limits, but
Speaker 9: that's really harvest limits.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's really about it.
Speaker 1: Could you got to answer my question?
Speaker 2: Okay, what was the question?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: I went in a tangent.
Speaker 1: Uh, do you feel or whatever you have for any
Speaker 1: kind of survey data or anything like that, do you
Speaker 1: feel that in some fisheries live scope could lead to
Speaker 1: could lead to adjustments in the regulatory structure. The second
Speaker 1: part of the question is would you feel that that
Speaker 1: would uh is that acceptable? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And it already has right, like an harvest species like
Speaker 2: Mississippi lowered croppy rates on their Big four down there
Speaker 2: and they attributed that to live scoping, so it's.
Speaker 1: Already articulated that that was a response to that. Yes,
Speaker 1: the dudes are tearing it up on croppies.
Speaker 2: Yes, so that is already already happening. And then paddlefish, Yep, yep, paddlefish,
Speaker 2: that's happened.
Speaker 1: Well, that was different. Like for Montana to say you
Speaker 1: can't use it to snag paddlefish is the opposite, not
Speaker 1: the opposite. It's like, Okay, the technology is coming. We
Speaker 1: either limit the technology or we say it's coming. Everybody's
Speaker 1: a better fisherman now. You can't keep as many fish, right,
Speaker 1: You're all better now. So now we're going to lower
Speaker 1: the potential impact by going after bag limits, going after
Speaker 1: seasons in order to accommodate the technology. So that'd be
Speaker 1: another way of putting the question, is you feel that
Speaker 1: it could lead to a reduction in the resource. And
Speaker 1: when you look at a state agency coming in and saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's here, we're going to lower bag limits, do you
Speaker 1: like that's an approach orders the approach of it's here,
Speaker 1: we don't want to lower bag limits, so we need
Speaker 1: to make it not be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it can be you can look
Speaker 2: at it different ways. It can still be here but
Speaker 2: maybe used during certain timeframes.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So I mean it's back to this whole how efficient
Speaker 2: is your effort?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: How efficient is the angling effort? So I think it's
Speaker 2: I think we should ask users what they want they
Speaker 2: how much do they value the technology over the experience
Speaker 2: of catching fish. Would you rather be able to use
Speaker 2: this technology and be able to catch whatever you can
Speaker 2: catch in a certain window of time, right, or would
Speaker 2: you just say, you know what, we want this experience
Speaker 2: to last longer, and therefore we want to limit technology.
Speaker 2: So I think that's that social component that I think
Speaker 2: we need to understand as much as as much as anything,
Speaker 2: because to say that this technology won't impact opportunity or
Speaker 2: catch rates just you know, to try to understand what
Speaker 2: that is. I think we already know what the answer us.
Speaker 5: From an enforcement perspective, the reduced bag limit approach seems
Speaker 5: a lot easier than have an award going around checking
Speaker 5: every boat. See if they got a live scope transducer. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that seems like a nightmare.
Speaker 4: Yeah if they if they did. Instead of getting rid
Speaker 4: of like basically saying you can't you can only keep
Speaker 4: two wall eyes and use live scope year round or
Speaker 4: whatever rather than like just getting rid of it all
Speaker 4: together and keeping that bag limit bigger.
Speaker 2: Well, and we've got plenty of people in here who
Speaker 2: don't have the technology, So is that fair to you?
Speaker 2: You don't have the technology, so now you could keep six.
Speaker 1: But now because it get you want to give Danny
Speaker 1: a turn to respond.
Speaker 5: That's a good question.
Speaker 1: No, I'd like everyone around the table like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: had a meandery. I wanted to give Danny a chance
Speaker 1: to respond to the question, which is being is the
Speaker 1: answer to regulate around it? Will that even be necessary?
Speaker 1: Or is the answer to uh, stop the technology? I mean?
Speaker 9: And this this is like I said, this is or
Speaker 9: it's difficult, right, So everybody's idea on what to do
Speaker 9: with it is going to be so different. And the
Speaker 9: hard part, and we talk about this quite a bit,
Speaker 9: is a lot of times it's that top ten percent
Speaker 9: of the anglers that are doing all the catching, all
Speaker 9: the keeping a lot.
Speaker 1: Of time things.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and so it's it's hard because you know, we're
Speaker 9: making all we want to make all the regulation on that.
Speaker 9: And then also, like I said earlier, we don't want
Speaker 9: to make regulation based on an emotion and so like
Speaker 9: in the panel, for example, we had a lot of
Speaker 9: guys that were very anti you know, against live scope
Speaker 9: and whatnot. But they've never used it and they don't
Speaker 9: really know, you know, the implements of it other than
Speaker 9: what they've maybe heard, you know. And then there's some
Speaker 9: media out there that's kind of like, you know, just
Speaker 9: putting taglines out there, headlines out there to get clicks.
Speaker 9: But then it's not necessarily like they're almost pitying it
Speaker 9: as the bad guy. Well you know, like I say,
Speaker 9: if if you're gonna go out and catch you know,
Speaker 9: ten muskies in a day, like you're the bad guy.
Speaker 9: Not necessarily the technology, right, So why why do we
Speaker 9: need to limit a great resource where I can learn
Speaker 9: about the fish, I can learn about the fishery, I
Speaker 9: can see what's on the bottom and and use it
Speaker 9: you know, respectfully or ethically whatever that means, versus a
Speaker 9: guy who's going out there and he's not you know.
Speaker 9: So And in a lot of times, especially in muskie fishing,
Speaker 9: a lot of a lot of it's like the guides,
Speaker 9: Like there's some guides so State of Minnesota prime example,
Speaker 9: Like you can go out put an ad on Facebook
Speaker 9: marketplace and say hey, I'm a musky guide and no license,
Speaker 9: no training, no nothing, and go out and target ten
Speaker 9: muskies every single day to make your money.
Speaker 1: There's no resource, no licensing or process on that unregulated,
Speaker 1: not even like insurance requirements.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there is that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but any any any you could become I could
Speaker 1: go there tomorrow. Yeah, got it.
Speaker 3: But you only need like captain's licenses or anything.
Speaker 2: Too great length.
Speaker 9: So like you know, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 9: there's a lot, there's a lot to this. It's it's
Speaker 9: it's the death of a thousand cuts. Again, it's not
Speaker 9: like every single person going out there is catching all
Speaker 9: these fish and causing the problem. It's kind of that
Speaker 9: top tier. It's certain small groups, you know, that's all
Speaker 9: sort of leading to something, and that's where like if
Speaker 9: regulation is needed, then then that's the avenue. Maybe we
Speaker 9: go down, but we want to do that with like
Speaker 9: a good science based or some actual factual information versus
Speaker 9: going on in motion or going on what small select
Speaker 9: groups are doing. We want to make sure we're making
Speaker 9: these decisions, we're actually making a smart decision.
Speaker 1: You know, it's pretty funny. Our colleague Ryan Callahan. We
Speaker 1: were one day talking about technology and specific we were
Speaker 1: talking about putting the camera down through the ice to
Speaker 1: watch fish, and he was talk about the emotional side
Speaker 1: of how you perceive it. Like you're saying, like guys
Speaker 1: that are against it, they don't really know what it is,
Speaker 1: they've never seen it, they haven't seen any data, but
Speaker 1: they're just against it. Cal was talking about this feeling
Speaker 1: of like, if you're ice fishing, you could be catching
Speaker 1: fish and having a good time. A guy comes and
Speaker 1: drills a hole near you and lowers a camera down
Speaker 1: and cows as you get this feeling like we're fuck
Speaker 1: now ye all of a sudden, it's like less fun.
Speaker 1: You know, you you thought you were having a great time,
Speaker 1: but now you're not.
Speaker 6: But that feeds in exactly to what I'm saying.
Speaker 9: Right, So I might sell live scopes to one hundred
Speaker 9: people at a sports show one weekend, right, but ten
Speaker 9: of them are going to know how to use it,
Speaker 9: you know, Like you can have all the technology, you
Speaker 9: can have the greatest rifle and hunting gear, but you're
Speaker 9: not always going to shoot that deer, right, Like, So
Speaker 9: obviously it's a tool that helps, but it's not the
Speaker 9: end all be all like people like it's made out.
Speaker 1: To be all right. People wanted a chance to weigh
Speaker 1: in on it. So I just want to clarify a
Speaker 1: question because it's a complicated question. Well we could, we
Speaker 1: could forfeit the idea that it's going to impact harvest.
Speaker 1: I think everybody here is acknowledged it's very effective for fishing.
Speaker 1: So let's just accept that it's going to impact harvest,
Speaker 1: if you will clarify this and put it. Everybody needs
Speaker 1: to imagine a lake they.
Speaker 5: Like to fish.
Speaker 1: Okay, there's a lake you like to fish, your favorite
Speaker 1: fishing spot, and they come to you and say, okay,
Speaker 1: we can do two things. We're either going to lower
Speaker 1: bag limits and shorten the season and keep live scope,
Speaker 1: or we're going to ditch live scope and keep the
Speaker 1: regulatory structure the same. So it's come down to you.
Speaker 1: Don't you Danny doesn't like this? Go ahead?
Speaker 9: No, No, I like the question, but like once again,
Speaker 9: it just it feeds into like, no two people are
Speaker 9: the same, right, Like I like to hunt white tails
Speaker 9: on private land out of a deer stand that I
Speaker 9: already hung. Tony likes to go to public land, and
Speaker 9: you know, hope something's there?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Do you feel the question is not a good no?
Speaker 4: I could give an example on the fishing side of things,
Speaker 4: like I like to go to four peck and target
Speaker 4: big walleye and I'm never going.
Speaker 2: To keep them.
Speaker 4: Okay, I would love to use live scope doing that. Okay, exactly,
Speaker 4: I love but that's not answer my question. But what's
Speaker 4: I don't like to go to for peck and keep
Speaker 4: a limit of walleyes. You know he's not targeting big fish.
Speaker 4: He just wants to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like in my case, I'm looking for a limit,
Speaker 5: so like i'd be like, we're out the lake I'm
Speaker 5: thinking of I don't need the forward facing keep the
Speaker 5: limits the same.
Speaker 1: That's where you were you were putting this. What's a
Speaker 1: Faulstian decision? I don't know. Isn't that a thing?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't have to answer. You could do
Speaker 1: like Seth and have some like some kind of waffle
Speaker 1: he doesn't like, Like Danny like the question, sat there
Speaker 1: and answer the question, Tony, do you what do you
Speaker 1: think about the question? Do you know this?
Speaker 8: This has almost given me PTSD because this feels just
Speaker 8: like the crossbow debate in the White Tail world. Okay,
Speaker 8: and I actually I mean I look at forward facing
Speaker 8: so and are kind of like we're almost going from
Speaker 8: traditional bows to crossbows.
Speaker 1: People are scared of it.
Speaker 8: People don't know, you know. To Jeremy's point, you're like, okay,
Speaker 8: well we're gonna we have a social aspect where a
Speaker 8: lot of people are like, I do not want this
Speaker 8: because this is going to change the game and on
Speaker 8: on a broad level with the average user, which is
Speaker 8: kind of undeniable, right, But you also have what actually
Speaker 8: is the impact on the resource, and so what you're
Speaker 8: talking about is like the science. To get the science,
Speaker 8: we always have to go retro right, Like either that
Speaker 8: or you just ban it and go we're just gonna
Speaker 8: be proactive and it's gone. But we don't live in
Speaker 8: that world right now.
Speaker 1: Well, now, the drone situation was that world. There was
Speaker 1: the minute there was like a whisper of private jont
Speaker 1: drone use. I always remember it was kind of one
Speaker 1: of the more interesting wildlife management moments of my lifetime.
Speaker 1: Thirteen states, I mean, in one year, thirteen states banned
Speaker 1: drones for hunting use. Western states and also some states
Speaker 1: that are not hippie dippy anti hunting states.
Speaker 5: Like some hard hitting Wyoming was one of the some hard.
Speaker 1: Hitting conservative pro consumptive use states Alaska right like pro
Speaker 1: not just like looking for any reason to screw with hunters.
Speaker 1: Some some like heavy forward thinking game management consumptive use
Speaker 1: states right wing leadership right out of the gate right,
Speaker 1: and that's no one had. No one waited to be like, well,
Speaker 1: let's wait and see for ten years if efficas rates changed.
Speaker 1: They just knew they.
Speaker 3: Did it well.
Speaker 8: And I mean, I think the only Devil's advocate I'd
Speaker 8: play there is it's like a it's a different beast
Speaker 8: managing elk versus how many croppies are in Minnesota. Right,
Speaker 8: So I mean it's a fair point. But I look
Speaker 8: at it and go, maybe this is a weird perspective,
Speaker 8: but everything that makes it easier. A lot of these
Speaker 8: guys who are like, no way, I don't want that.
Speaker 8: I don't want crossbows. I don't want a bait deer.
Speaker 8: I take it right down the line. I don't want
Speaker 8: to sell cameras. The adoption rate when that stuff becomes
Speaker 8: a little more affordable, a little more ubiquitous across the
Speaker 8: hunting population. These people who are against this stuff, they
Speaker 8: don't understand often end up on the side of using it.
Speaker 8: Because so if live scope was one hundred and fifty
Speaker 8: bucks and it took you five minutes to mount on
Speaker 8: your boat, all these guys would have it, right.
Speaker 1: I think those are haves and have nots components. Well,
Speaker 1: there isn't.
Speaker 8: There's just a component of not people not being familiar
Speaker 8: with it and like hearing about you know, and so
Speaker 8: that I think you have to play in the world
Speaker 8: of going, Okay, this stuff exists, it's legal right now,
Speaker 8: and it will be adopted by people who are against
Speaker 8: it if it comes to that. So kind of to
Speaker 8: your drone point, like if you believe that, and I do,
Speaker 8: then you would have to make that decision. Do we
Speaker 8: proactively go no? And I'm not on that side yet.
Speaker 8: I just I feel like it's coming and it's going
Speaker 8: to be it's going to change regulations.
Speaker 1: I think that I've mentioned this drone thing a couple times,
Speaker 1: but out of fairness, I need to acknowledge that these
Speaker 1: are not analogous, right, Like, like you could look at
Speaker 1: sonar as being an evolution of sonar. We agreed what
Speaker 1: it was in the seventies and somehow we were on
Speaker 1: a trajectory of not regulating sonar and then sonar. This
Speaker 1: isn't the answer. I'm saying, like sonar advanced. What made
Speaker 1: the drone thing? What makes it imperfect as an analogy,
Speaker 1: is it really was sort of this brand new, all
Speaker 1: together new concept. Right. It was like if there had
Speaker 1: been some other like the drones at first had extremely
Speaker 1: limited capabilities and you couldn't really picture where it would lead, right, Right,
Speaker 1: it might have had a different path, but it was
Speaker 1: sort of like it emerged as an altogether new thing
Speaker 1: and was sort of you had an opportunity to like
Speaker 1: say yes or no, right in a way that perhaps
Speaker 1: even like cameras, the gradual increase and efficacy of cameras,
Speaker 1: and then they kind of became that it was cellular cameras.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: There was never a real clear inflection point, right, I
Speaker 1: would say.
Speaker 8: That was a big lead. Yeah, And the closest thing
Speaker 8: would be scouting from an airplane.
Speaker 1: Which they had already haggled about, right, right, that's a
Speaker 1: good point. They had haggled about airplane use, and it
Speaker 1: already said if you fly, you can't hunt that day.
Speaker 1: Let me hit Can I hit you? Guys? Another question
Speaker 1: I want to set up with an observation of my
Speaker 1: own very similar bit of technology. When I started fishing
Speaker 1: in Southeast Alaska, we would fish off charts like as
Speaker 1: close as you can get to no detail. Just it's
Speaker 1: like it's like an open ocean portrayed on the chart,
Speaker 1: and then you have some soundings printed in a sort
Speaker 1: of equal spacing, so you could tell twenty fathoms, six fathoms,
Speaker 1: forty fathoms whatever, no detail. It made fishing very challenging
Speaker 1: because there was always this feeling of a kind of randomness. Okay,
Speaker 1: I've now gotten to the point where use navionics data.
Speaker 1: My catch rate one went up. My understanding of the
Speaker 1: ocean and what's going on, and my enjoyment of the
Speaker 1: experience went up hand in hand where it was like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, I didn't know that that was like a
Speaker 1: really sharp hog back ridge. It would be like in
Speaker 1: the old days to be like now, and then you'll
Speaker 1: catch a blank like over in that kind of area.
Speaker 1: Now I'm like, oh wow, they like to lay on
Speaker 1: the drop off point of a hog back ridge. And
Speaker 1: when you get there, get ready it like uh, efficacy up,
Speaker 1: understanding up sort of like inspiration about the landscape up.
Speaker 1: You could it was just like it was better, more fun,
Speaker 1: more education. Taking that and looking at it with live scope.
Speaker 1: Do you feel that it's uh, do you feel there's
Speaker 1: something similar at play? Is it like ultimately taking from
Speaker 1: the experience or is it adding to the experience. We'll
Speaker 1: start with Danny.
Speaker 9: So I'm gonna give two things here, Okay, Right, So
Speaker 9: I obviously you know, like I love live scope. I
Speaker 9: love to fish with it. I like how I can
Speaker 9: be selective in which fish I catch, you know, if
Speaker 9: I'm targeting eater fish, for example, I can target eater fish.
Speaker 9: I don't catch big fish, I don't catch small fish.
Speaker 9: I don't catch, you know, accidentally catch muskies. Back in
Speaker 9: the day when we'd you know, rig leeches and creek chubs,
Speaker 9: we'd catch whatever would bite it, yep, and it would
Speaker 9: swallow the hook every time. Like, I feel like I
Speaker 9: can actually fish more efficiently but also more you know, ethically,
Speaker 9: so to speak with the fish. Fishing with that technology,
Speaker 9: I can learn about what's on the bottom, I've said,
Speaker 9: on a lax lake in the winter time and watch
Speaker 9: the migration of walleyes as they come and go off
Speaker 9: those flats morning and night, and it's like I've just
Speaker 9: learned so much about fish behavior and what they do.
Speaker 9: And that's where like if you know, like using it
Speaker 9: in that matter or matter, it is so beneficial to
Speaker 9: an angler, you learn so much. I enjoyed the experience more.
Speaker 9: I'm able to bring my daughters. They're able to see
Speaker 9: the fish moving around and if anything gives you hope.
Speaker 9: You don't always catch them, but at least you can
Speaker 9: see them down there.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 9: But then also from like an industry standpoint, right, and
Speaker 9: the cross both thing here is a prime example and
Speaker 9: hits me. Hits me because I'm a white tail guy, right,
Speaker 9: and you know with ford facing sonar, I mean the
Speaker 9: one great benefit it also brings not only understanding fisheries,
Speaker 9: but look at what it brings to the industry as
Speaker 9: far as dollars go.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 9: So now we've got all these baits aimed at ford
Speaker 9: facing sonar. You can go buy you know, a new
Speaker 9: Berkeley power switch and it's got the FFS ford facing
Speaker 9: sonar logo right on that bait, letting you know the
Speaker 9: angler know it's for facing zonar. So it's created new
Speaker 9: industries within fishing. There's a new fishing line called Forward
Speaker 9: Diowa makes live scope rods that are you know, twelve
Speaker 9: hundred dollars odds you can use four livescoping. So, like
Speaker 9: you bring all this new money to the industry like
Speaker 9: Crossbows did, and you know a lot of times if
Speaker 9: that money can go back into the industry or keep
Speaker 9: the industry going, especially coming right out of COVID with
Speaker 9: all the new anglers we have. I mean there is
Speaker 9: a lot of like fringe benefits you don't necessarily speak
Speaker 9: of that not only add benefits to when you're out
Speaker 9: on the water, but benefits to the fishing industry in general.
Speaker 1: They're subject to what's the fishing Dingle Johnson L Johnson?
Speaker 1: Is that technology hit by Dingle Johnson tech?
Speaker 6: The technology wouldn't be, but a lot of the other.
Speaker 5: Stuff would be.
Speaker 1: The hardware is not hit by Dingle Johnson.
Speaker 2: Reno electronics are exempt.
Speaker 1: What yeah, man? Yeah, why is that.
Speaker 2: Dude?
Speaker 1: Boat gas is an exempt right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it was a navigational tool when when dj was
Speaker 2: getting started. So it hasn't been modified.
Speaker 1: Oh they need to get in there and hit that.
Speaker 1: How much is a how much is a what are
Speaker 1: we talking about? We never established how much does it
Speaker 1: cost to get your boat set?
Speaker 9: Up. I mean, a live scope system is going to
Speaker 9: be sixteen ninety nine retail, and then you know a
Speaker 9: screen that you'd use with it, you're looking at anywhere
Speaker 9: from let's just say eight hundred bucks on up, depending
Speaker 9: on what size you had, you know, like when I
Speaker 9: first started, it's a lot of seven inch units. Now
Speaker 9: we're sending selling a lot of ten inch screens, so
Speaker 9: you're going to be you know, about three grand. I'll
Speaker 9: say it to be all in.
Speaker 1: Okay, does it improve or detract from the experience?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't want to come off as like
Speaker 2: I just hate this technology because as a student of
Speaker 2: angling fishing my whole life, this is the most insane
Speaker 2: coolest thing ever to happen in fishing, right yoh, all
Speaker 2: the like if fundamentally changes it, like what's out there? Oh,
Speaker 2: I know what's out there? There's a big wall, you
Speaker 2: see it, right, Like, so it just changes things.
Speaker 1: So it is really cool. So that you brought up
Speaker 1: the great.
Speaker 2: Point, Steve of the GPS technology, like all of the
Speaker 2: other tech is really and that's really the foundation of
Speaker 2: a lot of it. Right, So if I can't easily
Speaker 2: navigate to these locations, it will likely be spots to
Speaker 2: hold fish right, like forward facing sownar. Isn't that great
Speaker 2: if you've got, you know, just a paper map that
Speaker 2: doesn't show you much like if you're not going to
Speaker 2: go to habitat fishing right, So so the map is huge.
Speaker 2: And talking to you know, I was talking to al
Speaker 2: Linda about some of the big moments in his career
Speaker 2: and fishing, and one that I thought was most interesting
Speaker 2: is he was like big outboards, man, like bigger.
Speaker 1: Boats, bigger outboards.
Speaker 2: When we could go out on Lake Erie and we
Speaker 2: could go out in the middle of Molax Lake, He's like,
Speaker 2: that changed fishing, you know, like that was a big
Speaker 2: moment in changing fishing. And that's marine electronics often get
Speaker 2: picked on, but that that was a huge deal. You
Speaker 2: brought up out wards earlier and this and then the other,
Speaker 2: you know, fundamental shift was mapping and being able to navigate,
Speaker 2: especially big bodies of water, find spots in the middle
Speaker 2: of the Lake Traverse Canadian Shield Waters. Now that you know,
Speaker 2: spinning the map around everything looks to say, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's pretty cool. So technology absolutely adds to the
Speaker 2: it can add to the experience. Yeah, absolutely, So I
Speaker 2: guess how much how easy you want to be and
Speaker 2: how much do you value some of those intangibles that
Speaker 2: are the mystery the difficulty in fishing, And that's kind
Speaker 2: of I think what we want to measure to some
Speaker 2: degree is how much value is there in the mystery
Speaker 2: those intangibles, and those are some of the things I
Speaker 2: think we need to consider.
Speaker 1: Uh, let's say this isn't a question, it's just something
Speaker 1: to respond to, just a thing to muse on. Let's
Speaker 1: say I developed some crazy technology where I could I
Speaker 1: all of a sudden had some technolog where I had
Speaker 1: I could put a map in front of you, and
Speaker 1: I could be like, every elk at all times is
Speaker 1: on this map. And I went to a body mine,
Speaker 1: I'm like, check this out, right, most dudes, let me
Speaker 1: look at that map.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: But then I come and be like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: sell this map anyone that wants it. Then people are
Speaker 1: gonna be like, I don't think you should do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think a lot of guys would want to
Speaker 1: peek at the map if they could peek at it secretly. Right,
Speaker 1: So there is a point at which like we go
Speaker 1: to that extreme, and I some people don't like extremes
Speaker 1: when debating, But I'm a big fan of extremes when debating.
Speaker 1: Most people would agree that if we could do that,
Speaker 1: if I could show you a map and every elk
Speaker 1: in existence on that mountain is on that map, or just.
Speaker 5: The three hundred and sixty bull is.
Speaker 1: On that he's always on there, no right where he
Speaker 1: is at all times, I think that you'd have ninety
Speaker 1: whatever the hell eighty ninety percent of people would be like,
Speaker 1: that's just going too far, and I would go like,
Speaker 1: but think of how educational it would be to understand
Speaker 1: how elk use the mountain. That's all the big bulls.
Speaker 1: Isn't it cool? You can see exactly where they like
Speaker 1: to lay, when they move, when they spook, where they go,
Speaker 1: what they eat. How educational? And people would say yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, but yeah, so there's like there is an extreme.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to put that into a question.
Speaker 1: But this can't be this can't be that. It's not like,
Speaker 1: it can't be that all mysteries are revealed.
Speaker 9: Right, and you know, like it's not obviously, And I
Speaker 9: know one thing people like to say is using life
Speaker 9: scope is like spotlight and white tails or scot light
Speaker 9: and deer. Okay, and although you can find the fish quicker,
Speaker 9: they still have to react, right, And if anybody's tried
Speaker 9: to catch a walleye on Leech Lake as of recent
Speaker 9: you'll know real quick that the fish start to learn
Speaker 9: about live scope and boats following them around. And where
Speaker 9: before you used to be able to maybe make a
Speaker 9: forty or forty foot cast at a walleye, you now
Speaker 9: have to try to make an eighty one hundred foot cast,
Speaker 9: like you know what I mean. And so like the
Speaker 9: fish still has to react and bite that bait. I've
Speaker 9: thrown my ned rig at a walleye one hundreds of
Speaker 9: times where they don't bite, and you just got to
Speaker 9: keep moving on. So even if sometimes you know where
Speaker 9: the fish are doesn't necessarily you know, mean you're gonna
Speaker 9: catch them all the time, you know. And obviously muskies
Speaker 9: are going to be a little bit different. I feel
Speaker 9: like there always going to be maybe an exception. There's
Speaker 9: other species that are too, but like you know, knowing
Speaker 9: exactly where that bowl is and then you know, going
Speaker 9: with a long range rifle or something like, it's it's
Speaker 9: similar but different. I guess, just like spotlighting a deer,
Speaker 9: like once you spotlight the deer, Like the deer doesn't
Speaker 9: have any choice there, like the fish is making the
Speaker 9: choice to still react bite bait. You still gotta make
Speaker 9: your cast within that twenty foot color, twenty degree cone angle,
Speaker 9: you know.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 4: I got kind of an example up Chester and I
Speaker 4: fished a tournament on Fresno here in Montana a few
Speaker 4: years ago, and everyone was kind of in this one
Speaker 4: part of the lake and we we motored up in
Speaker 4: this part of the lake that was super stained, like
Speaker 4: two three inches of viz. And we started marking a
Speaker 4: bunch of fish, but there was no one fishing there.
Speaker 4: So we dropped dropped down to megalive and we figured
Speaker 4: out if we if you drop we were drop shot
Speaker 4: in these walleyes, and if you put it five inches
Speaker 4: from him, you weren't catching them, but if you were
Speaker 4: to place it right on their nose, you could catch
Speaker 4: them pretty much every time. And that's like an example
Speaker 4: where if if we didn't have that, we end up
Speaker 4: taking like seventh in that tournament and every like a
Speaker 4: lot of people struggled, but we just figured out this
Speaker 4: one little thing and a super stained water where if
Speaker 4: we didn't have live imaging, like you would never have.
Speaker 3: Caught those fish.
Speaker 4: But we were just able to like really sharp shoot
Speaker 4: and like pinpoint these fish using that technology, and we
Speaker 4: like ended up catching a bunch. But I was pretty
Speaker 4: confident where if we tried to do that, like you
Speaker 4: just had to put it right on their nose.
Speaker 1: It was getting you fishy. Otherwise would have never would have.
Speaker 3: Never have caught those fish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Le's you want to address that one. Well, nothing,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you want to comment on that one.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I mean you just get this precision
Speaker 2: accuracy to your point, that just wasn't It wasn't possible.
Speaker 2: And you know, like back to the muskie thing, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's not like the spotlight in common or whatever. That's
Speaker 2: what that's what musky guys call it. They call it
Speaker 2: road hunting, spotlight and sharp shooting like.
Speaker 1: Guys, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2: And so this is if you guys are familiar with
Speaker 2: the concept of the tragedy of the commons as well,
Speaker 2: like this really applies in many of these cases where
Speaker 2: and it's quite interesting, like ge back to the muskie world,
Speaker 2: like on Leech Lake. This has gotten to be a
Speaker 2: hot topic. So all these guides are out there, they
Speaker 2: know like this is bad. Like what we're doing out
Speaker 2: here like bad. We should not be catching this many fish.
Speaker 2: But if I don't do this, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: catch nearly as many. So if I decide, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take the high road, I'm gonna just go
Speaker 2: fish traditionally and not do this. But you know what,
Speaker 2: the guy who's twenty years old, really good with tech,
Speaker 2: just buys this stuff, he can start guiding tomorrow and
Speaker 2: he's gonna kick his ass the guy who's been doing
Speaker 2: it for thirty years. So they're just caught in this
Speaker 2: rut and saying, hey, we need help. We need help
Speaker 2: stopping ourselves from doing this. So it's a really interesting
Speaker 2: situation that we're in with that.
Speaker 1: There was a famous buffalo hide hunter and he observed
Speaker 1: when he was down in the I think he was
Speaker 1: in the Texas Panhandle. He knew what they were doing,
Speaker 1: that they were pushing the animals to extinction. And he
Speaker 1: would say, sometimes they get so disgusted and I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I can't do it anymore. But he said, you'd wake
Speaker 1: up and off in the distance, he's like, someone's doing it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen no matter what you know, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: it all right, the last question, and we would go
Speaker 1: around and remembering and have you can have two things.
Speaker 1: You have a final thought if you want, but you
Speaker 1: also got a crystal ballet. What's the fair number? Ten years,
Speaker 1: twenty years, ten years, ten years where we sitting just
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, where were sitting on the
Speaker 1: debate in ten years what happened? And ten years what
Speaker 1: will have happened? As we weigh this all out. So
Speaker 1: a final thought, if you got one and then crystal
Speaker 1: ballet ten years down the road, I would expect to
Speaker 1: see blank.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I guess final thought.
Speaker 9: I'll start with that obviously, you know, obviously I think
Speaker 9: my big perspective on it is is, you know, there
Speaker 9: there's always going to be the two groups, the people
Speaker 9: that like it, people that don't, people kind of fall
Speaker 9: in the middle. Doesn't necessarily matter what we decide as
Speaker 9: far as regulation or whatever else, like, it's still going
Speaker 9: to there's still gonna be that that those groups, you know.
Speaker 9: And that's where I say, like, as long as we're
Speaker 9: making decisions based on the science, based on you know,
Speaker 9: actual facts and what's going on versus just on emotion
Speaker 9: and whatnot, I think we'll be will be in a
Speaker 9: good spot, you know. The one bad thing and Jeremy
Speaker 9: alluded to this a little bit, is like, right now,
Speaker 9: how we're getting those facts isn't necessarily like the most
Speaker 9: effective way, right So, right now we're getting a lot
Speaker 9: of those facts through creole surveys, you know, and to
Speaker 9: some degree there's probably some truth to them. And it's
Speaker 9: pointing out that that top group is the group that's
Speaker 9: catching the fish, doing most of the harvest that kind
Speaker 9: of stuff, and everybody else is still kind of the same,
Speaker 9: right We're not really showing that much or if any
Speaker 9: increase in catch of fish or any of that kind
Speaker 9: of stuff. You So right now we're showing like really
Speaker 9: it's not having an effect, is basically it. But you know,
Speaker 9: how are we getting these creole surveys? Are they doing
Speaker 9: them at the correct times? Are the muskie guys really
Speaker 9: coming off the boat access at noon now they're coming
Speaker 9: off in the middle of the night or you know
Speaker 9: what I mean, before the sun comes up, whatever else?
Speaker 9: And are we actually hitting those guys that are harvesting
Speaker 9: a lot of the fish? Right So, I think there's
Speaker 9: a little bit of a flaw in how we're getting
Speaker 9: that data, but just making sure that we are using
Speaker 9: good data and good information we make those decisions. I
Speaker 9: think that's the most important because it does have a
Speaker 9: big impact on the industry and we are bringing a
Speaker 9: lot to the industry and a lot to the upcoming
Speaker 9: generation because of the technology. So ten years down the road,
Speaker 9: where are we going to be? Well, I mean, I've
Speaker 9: been in this business now for ten years, been with
Speaker 9: Garment for ten years, and when I started, we were
Speaker 9: using two D sonar. Right now we're using live scope.
Speaker 9: I can see fish two hundred feet away in livetime.
Speaker 9: So I mean, who knows what's coming right And we're
Speaker 9: sitting here and we're debating what's happening right now. But
Speaker 9: like you know, we're all middle aged guys, right, and
Speaker 9: we grew up in a time where there was no
Speaker 9: cell phones, there wasn't really internet and all that kind
Speaker 9: of stuff. And now look what we have, right, And
Speaker 9: so this generation of Anglers that's coming up right now,
Speaker 9: like with the new bass Master Classic Angler being young
Speaker 9: and a lot of young guns kind of in this
Speaker 9: tournament series in the content game, right, like, they're going
Speaker 9: to drive that technology, I think further and further and further.
Speaker 9: And so what we should be looking at, maybe concerned
Speaker 9: about talking about, is what's coming more so too, versus
Speaker 9: what we got going on right now. So in ten years, no,
Speaker 9: I mean, who knows?
Speaker 3: And good point.
Speaker 6: And that's where like I think Jeremy has a great point.
Speaker 9: And hey, we like we can't wait for twenty five
Speaker 9: years to figure out if we have an effect on bluegills,
Speaker 9: right we need to figure out that right now. So
Speaker 9: let's figure it out. Let's make good decisions, let's work together,
Speaker 9: Let's drive the industry. Let's continue to get these anglers.
Speaker 9: You know, we added almost a million youth anglers to
Speaker 9: the to the industry last year. Let's let's keep doing that.
Speaker 9: Let's use the technology with them, but use it in
Speaker 9: the correct ways. Train ethics, you know, like a lot
Speaker 9: of it really comes down to the anglers, like deer hunting,
Speaker 9: Like you can do a lot of things that you
Speaker 9: maybe shouldn't, you know, But where does that start. That
Speaker 9: starts with like the values and the ethics that we
Speaker 9: have as fishermen an outdoorsman.
Speaker 2: So Jeremy, well, I guess that to Crystal Ballad, I
Speaker 2: think there's going to have to be some examples of
Speaker 2: a fishery crashing or really you know, showing like, oh boy,
Speaker 2: there's a strong correlation between this use before we decide
Speaker 2: that we're going to be proactive on managing technology for
Speaker 2: the most part, and it'll be a reactive management strategy
Speaker 2: going forward, would be my guest, at least in the
Speaker 2: state Minnesota where I can speak to. But I think
Speaker 2: technology is not going to slow down. I think we're
Speaker 2: going to pursue this idea that we want to make
Speaker 2: the fishing experience easier or comfortable. We want to improve
Speaker 2: cat trades, we want to make you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's just that's just where it's going. That's that's where
Speaker 2: it's headed. So I'm not saying that's bad, but I'm
Speaker 2: just saying that trend will continue. Yeah, that trend will continue.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'd use live imaging, and I like using it.
Speaker 3: It's fun.
Speaker 4: Some fisheries I don't use it because it just like
Speaker 4: you guys were talking, like, there's there's times when it's
Speaker 4: helpful and other times it doesn't matter. And I'm the
Speaker 4: type of guy who maybe keeps a limit of.
Speaker 3: Walleye a year.
Speaker 1: I don't keep a lot of fish.
Speaker 4: If it went away tomorrow, I'd still be out there fishing,
Speaker 4: and I don't think it'd make a big difference in
Speaker 4: my life, got.
Speaker 1: It, fish you wouldn't change, You wouldn't fish less days? Nope, No, no, grint.
Speaker 7: Well, I don't really have enough experience with any of this,
Speaker 7: But one thing stuck in my head from talking to
Speaker 7: you guys before the show, before you came out here,
Speaker 7: which was really again focusing on and this is what
Speaker 7: I can't not think about the generation that's coming up
Speaker 7: with tech, and uh, if that's just going to be
Speaker 7: if we won't get ahead of that. So I know
Speaker 7: we touched on that a bit today, but that you know,
Speaker 7: in five ten plus years the generation now your kids age,
Speaker 7: you know what they're used to and what they're going
Speaker 7: to be clamoring for. And if we're really going to
Speaker 7: set regulations in advance of that, and potentially with technology
Speaker 7: even developing faster better, that's just the one thing that's
Speaker 7: in my mind. So not sure if we'll react fast enough, Tony.
Speaker 8: I feel like when Jeremy's talking about the Musky guide
Speaker 8: thing and feeling the pressure to compete against the twenty
Speaker 8: year old who's going to use it without any no
Speaker 8: compunction at all. He's just like, I'm going to go.
Speaker 8: This feels just like how deer baiting is sort of
Speaker 8: a social contagion where you're like, I don't want to
Speaker 8: do it, but now my neighbor's doing it, and all
Speaker 8: my deer disappeared on opener, and I want my kids
Speaker 8: to get one, And so I just think we have
Speaker 8: to look at this and go, it's gonna be pretty
Speaker 8: widespread adoption, I think. And what kind of just occurred
Speaker 8: to me while you guys were talking is so we
Speaker 8: live We're all kind of Minnesota boys. We live in
Speaker 8: this world, know these lakes, and kind of that's the
Speaker 8: filter which we kind of view it through. But I
Speaker 8: was like, in my head, I'm I imagine if you
Speaker 8: like a selfie stick kind of thing with a little
Speaker 8: portable version of this, and these fly fishermen out here
Speaker 8: walk up to a hole, stick it in there, look
Speaker 8: at their phone, and go do your baby doing it right?
Speaker 8: But people will do it, But that would be a
Speaker 8: catalyst for like work, Like I think that people would
Speaker 8: go this is a use case like it that's too
Speaker 8: far for me. So like we if you're really close
Speaker 8: to the muskie issue, this is like if you really
Speaker 8: appreciate that opportunity, like this is a hot button thing
Speaker 8: right now because you can see that that specific use
Speaker 8: case is probably going to be trouble at some point
Speaker 8: or or already is. It's like a lot muddier when
Speaker 8: you're talking like grand scheme of things pan fish populations, walleyes, whatever.
Speaker 8: But I tend to err on the side like Danny,
Speaker 8: You're you have like a pretty charitable, charitable view of
Speaker 8: the average fishermen, like, well, we got to train them
Speaker 8: in ethics and this, and I'm I think about a
Speaker 8: lot of the old timey walleye guys and I know,
Speaker 8: I'm like, you give them a chance to put more
Speaker 8: fish in the boat, they're gonna do it. Like they're
Speaker 8: not gonna They're not gonna think about that for a second.
Speaker 8: And so I think we have to operate in that world.
Speaker 8: So ten years down the road, Crystal ball in it,
Speaker 8: I feel like we'll probably see some level of reduction
Speaker 8: and opportunities. If that's just limits or if it's shortened
Speaker 8: season or something like that. I think we have to
Speaker 8: consider that because I could see that, like I believe
Speaker 8: that's probably coming.
Speaker 5: Brody, I'm still on the fence. I'm nowhere, like I'm
Speaker 5: in the same place I was when I walked in
Speaker 5: the room. There, Well, crystal Ball, I mean the cats
Speaker 5: out of the bag. It ain't going anywhere, you know
Speaker 5: what I mean. Like, I don't think I think you're
Speaker 5: gonna have a real hard time disallowing the technology, other
Speaker 5: than in very specific cases like Montana paddlefish, where it's
Speaker 5: like a set number of anglers on a short stretch
Speaker 5: of river that can be monitored. I just I don't
Speaker 5: think anybody's gonna be like no, you like it can
Speaker 5: never I don't know. I mean, it's there. I'm I'm leary.
Speaker 5: But the reason I'm leery of putting it on my
Speaker 5: boat now because you'll watch it, is because my boys
Speaker 5: will pay attention to that to the exclusion of everything else, like,
Speaker 5: which is annoying.
Speaker 1: That's true. When I introduced ice fishing with a camera
Speaker 1: my older boy, if you don't got the camera, he's
Speaker 1: less interested in going, right. He loves it, uh and
Speaker 1: he'll he would sit there for three hours intent watching
Speaker 1: that screen glued. But that's different. That's parenting. That's not right.
Speaker 5: That's that's parenting.
Speaker 1: That's not regulation. When I crystal ball, just to take
Speaker 1: to the pure crystal ball. If I crystal Ball and
Speaker 1: I really had like bat money on it, I would
Speaker 1: bet that you will see a noticeable You would see
Speaker 1: a noticeable increase in restrictions, maaning just as we can
Speaker 1: point to, just as we can point to like paddlefish
Speaker 1: snagging whatever. I think that you'll have in ten years.
Speaker 1: I think you'll have more examples of a fishery for
Speaker 1: perhaps an imperiled, low fecundity fish whatever. I think that
Speaker 1: you'll have some instances where people find that a resource
Speaker 1: is pretty limited, it's really reliant on low efficacy, and
Speaker 1: it might be that rather than shutting off the fishery,
Speaker 1: you'd have select instances where you decided to control the technology.
Speaker 1: I think that, like I would bet on seeing a
Speaker 1: handful of more examples in a.
Speaker 5: Place like Minnesota, where there's so many lakes, you could
Speaker 5: have like forward basing free lakes.
Speaker 1: Just like Yeah, I don't know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: form it'll take when I crystal ball, but I think
Speaker 1: that we'll have instead of us keep saying paddlefish, paddlefish, paddlefish,
Speaker 1: I think we'll be able to go paddlefish whatever or whatever, whatever, whatever,
Speaker 1: and we'll have more examples with all that set it
Speaker 1: has to be totally fair. With all that said, if
Speaker 1: you showed up in my fish shack.
Speaker 5: And you could go find and you.
Speaker 1: Said, dude, here it all is, let's hook it up,
Speaker 1: I would yeah, I would say, let's go now to
Speaker 1: continue that thought at the end of the day. At
Speaker 1: the Depending on what happened at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I might I might have. I might also say that
Speaker 1: was amazing. You shouldn't be allowed to do that. I had.
Speaker 1: Let me give you this just a like a sort
Speaker 1: of closing thought from Phills. Wave me up, I'll keep
Speaker 1: it quick. You can hunt coyotes with thermals, and in
Speaker 1: the state of Living hut coyotes with thermals. We were
Speaker 1: out thermal hunting during deer season one time. Okay, it's
Speaker 1: deer season, but we're out at night thermal hunting kyotes,
Speaker 1: and it occurred to me, I'm like, dude, we ain't
Speaker 1: breaking the law, but there's some hot intel.
Speaker 5: There's some hot into up against that line, especially if
Speaker 5: you were coyote hunting at five o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: We weren't, we were at the tail end, but I'll
Speaker 1: just say it just occurred to me, like, dude, I
Speaker 1: could be like I'm kyo hunting bro, and could have
Speaker 1: had a feeling like, yeah, I could see someone saying
Speaker 1: that you can't deer hunt after you kyote hunt a thermal. Right,
Speaker 1: all right, thanks guys for coming out, man, I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it and coming out and and uh and kicking.
Speaker 5: This all around.
Speaker 3: It's a good conversation.
Speaker 1: It's great conversation. It's interesting. It's one of those things
Speaker 1: that makes everybody a little smarter you think about.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 1: Thanks, thanks again to our guests, Danny Jeremy, Thanks, Man,
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 9: Thank you,