WEBVTT - Congress Heights [2] 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.559 You're listening to the Freeway Phanom, a production of iHeartRadio, 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.840 Tenderfoot TV, and black bar Mitzvah. The views and opinions 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.400 expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.960 author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.680 represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, Black bar Mitzvah, or 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.920 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter that may 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.520 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.360 Prior to these killings start happenings, Freeway fan, you didn't 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.320 hear a lot of killings of black kids per se 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.080 in the district of Columbia, and not like that that 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.600 one behind of a behind of an unresult. You didn't 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.120 hear that. So the community was in shock and it 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.280 put them on caution. People were scared. I mean parents 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.240 were scared, children were scared. They wanted to know what 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.960 more police could do. What were they doing? All that 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.560 conversation was coming up, People were keeping an EyeT on things, 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.800 anything that may have seen unusual. People were more visual 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.160 I think during that time because it was hitting close 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.959 to home, right in the community, close especially over here. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.840 I'm Derek Davis, I'm co owner of Davis. Barbara Service 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.319 Uh been here fifty three years, right here in the 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:30.800 same location. I was actually in high school myself in 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.959 seventy two. I was in eleventh grade, so it was 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.000 close in that regard because the girl that went blue 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.680 was in the eleventh grade too, with the girl named Denise, 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.240 even though I didn't personally know her. A lot of 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.880 this the kids, you know, they came down and get 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.600 the haircut at the shop, were talking about it and 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.800 how they were, you know, depressed or saddened about what 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.760 had happened to her. And then a lot of the 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.680 customers had talked about it in terms of, you know, 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:01.800 the crime going on in the city. 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:07.200 And how they couldn't test this person. So it was 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.120 a Saturday for DC. I do know that, but you 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.600 don't really want to know what somebody was telling me 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:20.960 the other date, Lord BERSI woo. They were giving me 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:26.079 some deep stuff about this phantom stuff where if some 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:30.120 people that was close to that person's family may have 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:34.400 been tied up into that, and possibility it. 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.840 Could have been a police officer involved. 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.799 I said, do you want to go on record with that? 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:41.720 Now? 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.480 I don't know how true that is, but the way 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.480 she was laying that out, said you need to come 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.720 on camera and say what you got to say. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.400 But they won't talk. They're not gonna tell the police. 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.360 They're not gonna tell the camera, the media. They're not 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:57.040 gonna do it. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:07.360 The homicide detectives termed the cases the little girl case. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.440 This child was laying on the side of the road. 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.639 I won't go no way. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:14.080 I would call my house. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.120 Those first five murders should have been a huge warning 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:19.080 bell for the police. 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.399 We just want to know what happened. This person must 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:23.080 have saw that. 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.400 They were thinking that maybe it's just one person, and 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:26.840 he says, they need to know. 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:28.200 This is me. 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.160 I thought that they would catch him. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:32.680 I thought it was just a. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:33.240 Matter of time. 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:41.840 I'm Celeste Hedley and this is Freeway Phantom. On the 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.320 last episode, we covered the background of the Freeway Phantom murders. 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.960 Six victims, all young black girls, all of them snatched 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.080 off the streets of Washington, d C. Between April nineteen 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.440 seventy one and September nineteen seventy two. Their bodies were 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.240 all dumped by the side of the freeway. And we 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.520 know that all six murders were committed by the same 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:07.720 person and never solved. The first victim was thirteen year 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.840 old Carol Spinks, who went missing on April twenty fifth, 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.160 nineteen seventy one. In episode one, we heard from Carrol's sisters, 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.200 Carolyn and Evander as they described the horror of losing 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.279 their sister. Today, we'll dig into what happened after Carol 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.320 was found, or at the least what we know from 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.720 the official investigation. As you heard last episode, we were 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.120 able to obtain the official police report. Here's what it 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.400 said about Carol's known whereabouts leading up to the murder. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.680 Sunday, April twenty fifth, nineteen seventy one, at round seven pm, 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:48.520 Carol Denise Spink's female black thirteen years of age, was 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.440 sent to the seven to eleven store located on Wheeler 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.360 Road and Southern Avenue. She was last seen in the 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.760 vicinity of Wheeler and Southern Avenue by her mother, at 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.760 which time she was reprimanded for being out of the house. 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.560 Her older sister had sent her to the store. Later 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.560 the same day, she was reported missing by her mother 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.640 to the sixth District Police. 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.760 It wouldn't be until almost a week later that Carrol 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:18.240 Spinks's body was found. Here's another excerpt from the police report. 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:23.880 On Saturday May one, nineteen seventy one, Carol Denise Spinks 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.799 was found in the grass area of the northbound lane 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:31.080 of Route two ninety five near Suitland Parkway by children playing. 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.160 The children hailed a Traffic division officer who was traveling 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:36.960 north on Route two ninety. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.680 Five now known as Interstate two ninety five or the 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.400 Anacostia Freeway. The road was a major thoroughfare which cut 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.839 right through the city. As we heard, the police report says, 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.280 some children playing near the highway spotted the body and 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.000 then one of them either called or flagged down a 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.880 police officer. Here's how the report describes Carroll's body at 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:58.320 the scene. 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.719 Tennis usemissy cold to the touch, rigor evident in the 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.440 right knee and left arm. Dried blood around the nose 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.960 and mouth, right arm across the chest and left bent 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.719 under the torso. Grass embedded in left leg and thigh. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.680 Crushed cardboard, milk carton pressed against the area of the 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:25.000 right eye. Laceration to lower lip, several marks on body, throat, knees, 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:25.920 and arms. 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:31.160 Aside from her missing shoes, Carol was fully clothed. In 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.200 one handwritten note by a police officer. It was said 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.719 that her second and third snap on pants buttons were unfastened. 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.359 Preliminary testing showed Carol had blood under her fingernails, but 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.640 the amount was too small for any conclusive testing or grouping. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.440 No seamen was found anywhere on her body. However, the 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.800 police did find negroid hairs unlike her own, on her shorts, 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.960 sweater panties, and hair burrett and also on her sweater 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:03.960 and underwear. Investigators found some mysterious synthetic green fibers. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.760 She did have a ligature mark on her some small 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.880 crescent shape marks on cyber neck that indicated it could 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.120 have been somebody who was strangling her. Her nose was bloodied, 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.960 her lower lip was split open, and she had been sodomized. 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.160 That's writer Blaine Pardo, who investigated and co wrote a 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.440 book on the Freeway Phantom murders. 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.520 What is really interesting about Carol Spinkx that I think 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.760 is the creepiest factor of hers despite the gruesomeness of 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.200 how she died, was that she had been kept alive 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.440 for at least three days according to the authorities. You know, 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.120 she had only been dead for two days, and they 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.600 actually found that her murderer had fed her. They had 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.760 given her citrus screw during that period, So whoever the 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.680 killer was, it wasn't just a matter of kidnapping the girl, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.560 taking her to his place where he was going to 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:01.040 do what he was going to do, dumping the body. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.720 He kept her for several days as a prisoner. It 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.120 tells you a lot about the killer because it tells you, 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:08.480 you know, he had to have a place where you 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.680 could do that, He had to have the means of 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.080 doing it. She didn't have any marks where it looked 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.480 like she was tied up, so how did he keep her? 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.840 It really gets you start thinking a little bit about 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.720 the environment that she had to have or the killer 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.000 had to have in order to keep her as a hostage. 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.280 Police also interviewed a number of potential witnesses, including seventeen 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.320 year old Vanessa Alice Copeland, who was near the seven 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.120 eleven the day Carol went missing. Copeland said that between 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.559 three point thirty and four pm, she saw a man 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.600 exposing himself in a burned out building by the store. 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.400 She also saw Carol walking behind her towards the Maryland 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.360 state line, but when she looked back a minute later, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.800 Carol was gone. Another witness, twelve year old Cecilia Edith Diggs, 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.760 says she saw Carol in the seven eleven parking lot 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.680 that day between six thirty and seven pm with a 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.320 girl named Deborah Harrison. Diggs was riding passenger in a 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.360 car going north on Wheeler Road. While sitting at the 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.760 traffic light on Wheeler and Mississippi, she claims to have 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.760 seen two men, both black, jump out of a car 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.920 to grab Carol and put her in the car. Then 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:22.240 the car went south on Wheeler. The police then interviewed 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.800 Deborah Harrison, the seventeen year old reportedly with Carol at 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.959 the seven eleven. Harrison said that she walked with Carroll 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.760 to the store, but left without her. When she was 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.400 leaving the store, she looked back and noticed that Carol 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.120 was walking towards a burned out building near the store, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.040 and this, she says, is the last time she saw Carol. 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.319 But then Harrison says that the next day the phone 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.960 started ringing at her home and when she picked up 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:56.760 the line, she heard a man's voice. Harrison would say 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.480 that at the time she didn't know Carol was missing 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:04.560 or who had called her. Lastly, police interviewed Dorothy Wheeler, 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.160 who'd helped organize a search party for Carol. Wheeler told 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.720 police she also received threatening phone calls from a mail 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.480 with a deep voice, and then Wheeler says she started 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.120 receiving letters at work, one of which said the following. 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.480 You have daughters and if you don't want them raped and. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.959 Dropped on the side of the road, you'll keep your 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:26.920 nose out of this. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.640 The police report says these letters were handed to investigators, 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.959 but there's no record of the notes themselves, and some 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.239 believe that the testimony of Wheeler and the other witnesses 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:39.560 were not credible. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.200 You follow a lead until it takes you no way, 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:46.679 and they got all kinds of leads. 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.280 I mean, everybody was a suspect. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.319 This is retired Metropolitan Police Department Sergeant Romainne Jenkins, who 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:58.520 you met in episode one. She investigated the Freeway Phantom murders. 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.360 Years after the case went At the time of Carol's murder, 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.760 she was assigned to work elsewhere, but she remembers hearing 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:06.800 about the investigation. 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.679 Everybody became a suspect because people were calling in tips, 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.960 and sometimes the information that people phoned in would lead 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.400 you on a merry ghost chase, you know so, but 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.800 you had to follow the lead until you couldn't follow 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.800 it anymore. And then some of the people eventually admitted 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.760 that they lied. They never saw the girls being abducted 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.000 or anything that they lied. 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.600 Romayne fully believes that those witness statements for Carol were 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.120 completely false and that might explain why investigators made no 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.720 progress with those leads. Eventually, there was an autopsy. According 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.360 to the autopsy reports, they collected specimens from pubic hair, 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:51.600 vaginal spears, rectal smears, and stomach contents. But remember this 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.719 was pre DNA technology, so at the time police had 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.760 no way of making connections through those specimens, and so 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.120 the police ran out of leeds and thus Carol's case 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.680 went cold. But many believed the police could have done 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:13.080 more and chose not to. Here again is Evander Spinks, 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.240 the older sister of Carol Spinks. 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:21.040 As a young teenager, I don't think the police did 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.160 a good job. I didn't feel as though they actually 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.800 cared during that time, and as an adult, I know 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.720 they didn't do a good job and I know down 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:33.600 where they didn't care. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.040 Romayne believes this may have been due to a disconnect 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.800 between white officers and the black communities in and around DC. 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.160 People bring their own prejudices and biases to the job. 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.600 I read information in the files with some of the detectives. 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:56.240 The white ones said, well, they wore tight clothes that 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.520 Carl Spinx had on tight clothes Carl Spring had on 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.360 DC Public School Jim Shorts. If you know anything about 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:08.240 DC Public School Jim Shorts, they balloon out, ain't nothing 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:13.640 tight about them Shorts, instead of reviewing the whole case. 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:18.160 And that's the number one problem most on these tasks force. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.720 They are given assignments to do. Look, I want you 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.360 to cover the forty nine hundred block of C Street, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.920 I want you to cover fourteenth in you and you 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.040 give an assignment and that's what you do. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.760 You have no idea what the other. 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.959 Nine hundred and ninety nine pages in this investigation has revealed. Okay, 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.640 but see, I'm not like that. I'm going to read 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.199 everything I was taught. If you want to know something, 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.199 you must read it. There's nothing that you don't know 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.840 that you can't find out isn't written somewhere. So I 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.360 read everything and sad to say, they didn't have a 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.800 female on the team. 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.560 Romayne believes there may have been some wilful neglect when 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.720 it came to investigating Carroll's murder, and she wasn't the 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:04.240 only one. 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.560 When the first victims went missing, there was a really 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.920 kind of a muted police response. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.679 This is Jim Trenham, a retired detective from the Metropolitan 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:16.440 Police Department. 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.520 But also during that time, there just wasn't the attention 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.920 that was being paid, especially when these girls haven't been 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.360 found yet. You know of just a young black girl runaway, 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.320 or she probably at a relative's house, you know that 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.600 sort of thing. There wasn't the full court press that 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.360 you would often see with a John Benet Ramsey or 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:38.640 something along that line. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:39.000 You know. 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.400 To be honest, that's unfortunately, has been a fact of 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.200 life for god knows hundreds of years, but even today. 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.040 Jim started reviewing the case when he launched an initiative 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.160 called the Violent Crime Case Review Project. 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.680 Our goal was to go back and look at old 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.720 homicide cases to see if we could take advantage of 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.960 any the new technology that was coming out, such as DNA. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.040 And as I was doing so, I was pulling these 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.320 case files up and looking at them, I kept hearing 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.360 about this one case that was kind of a legend 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.480 in DC back in the seventies, and that was referred 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.040 to as the Freeway Phantom case. So one of my 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.000 first goals was to see what I could find on 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.360 that case, what evidence was available, and could we take 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.600 advantage of especially DNA technology today. 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.160 Jim says he quickly realized that the original investigators did 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.520 a subpar job of maintaining documents and preserving the evidence. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.280 When we first started looking at the Freeway Phantom case, 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.880 the most frustrating thing was that just about all of 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:52.200 the files were gone. We didn't really have anything, and 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.920 so we were trying to dig up whatever we could 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.920 through newspaper accounts and things like that. The other frustrating 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.240 thing is as we were going going through the evidence 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.880 in all we were finding out that the evidence was 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:09.320 also missing, not only in DC but also in PG County, 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.400 And in fact, the PG County detectives who had done 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:17.440 their own independent re examination of some of the cases, 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.880 had only found evidence in one and that was evidence 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.440 that having kept at the medical examiner's office. When the 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.360 medical examiner back then would do a sexual assault kit 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.600 on a body, they would take the swabs and they 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.920 would smear them on a slide, look at the slide 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.240 and see whether or not there was any sperm visible, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.440 and if it was, they would send the kit over 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.600 to the FBI or to whatever lab they were using 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.840 at the time. But they kept the slide, and so 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.360 in one case they actually found the slide, they sent 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.920 it in for testing, hoping that it had enough on 0:16:55.120 --> 0:17:01.000 there to extract a suspect profile. However, at that time 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.919 DNA testing wasn't as advanced as it is now, and 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.439 unfortunately they used up all of the sample and they 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.520 were not able to get a useful. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:16.360 Profile, and so any hope of finding Carol's killer through 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:40.040 DNA was officially lost. Anything the seven eleven used to be, 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:41.640 it was only a point two miles of the whole 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.520 point two yet, yeah, that was probably right at the book. 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:46.000 Right at the corner. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.800 I was curious to see the neighborhood where Carrol Spinks 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.080 lived last summer. I found where the Spinx house used 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:58.760 to be, and I brought along my producers, Jamie and Tremors. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.080 As of letting my fid, I. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:00.960 Wanted to hide street. 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:05.439 Today, I wouldn't hide it. I would absolutely send my child. 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:07.040 He was a tired squirrel. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.680 The complex where the Sphinx family lived was torn down 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:16.200 decades ago. Today the neighborhood is densely populated, yet quiet, 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.399 single family houses, duplexes, and row homes with narrow, tidy 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.800 lawns out front. There's a mix of old and newer buildings. 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.960 When the weather is nice, people still sit outside of 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.600 their homes and watch the activity on the streets. The 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.520 Congress Heights neighborhood is still overwhelmingly black, but like so 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.840 many urban neighborhoods in the twenty first century, there's surely 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.080 been some gentrification since the nineteen seventies. Back then, this 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:47.280 was a working class, tight knit black community. Tell us 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.320 what you remember about that particular time, Derek, Oh. 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.400 I thought it was more family or Yeah. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:55.960 This is Derek Davis, who's run a barber shop in 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.680 the neighborhood for decades. You heard from him at the 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.840 very top of this episode. Also sitting down with us 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.240 is his friend, Reverend Anthony Motley. 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:12.680 They called us Chocolate City, Chocolate City, the Bump Parliament, 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.960 Funker delic. I mean, we had to go black leadership, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:21.760 black superintendent, black police, black city councils, black mayor. 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.080 We had a lot of pride in the day. Back 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.720 in the day, we were from DC. You know, it 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.200 wasn't a knock on DC. It was you from DC. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:33.680 Man. 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.359 You must be you know, you must be on the ball. 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.680 Right, you know. There were a lot of bustling businesses 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.480 we had in the total Ward eight. I think we 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.160 probably had about maybe five movie. 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.480 Theaters that we no longer have even won. 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.480 We used to have a roller skating ring. Things kids could. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:57.480 Do, had boys club, bowling alley right, boys club, girls club. 0:19:58.000 --> 0:19:59.880 We had all these type of activities. 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.840 Sit down restaurants, sit down restaurants. Yeah, we had all 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:08.400 those things, restaurants. It was really community oriented. I mean 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.760 people were friendlier, they helped out. Did it seem like 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.399 a lot of anger like sometimes I see today, I 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:15.880 see a lot of anger. 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.320 Or frustration or stuff like that. It was just more 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:21.440 community Definitely. 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:26.600 The community felt safe. People could keep their doors open. Yes, 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.879 your child could go to the store right by herself. 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.639 We used to say, everybody come in when the street 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.120 lights come right, come on right, But then they off 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.960 the block. Don't come off the block, you know. But 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.160 there wasn't nobody, nobody surveilling you. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:52.120 And then the adults had more say the adults had 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.639 more control where if Reverie Motley saw my son or 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.560 daughter out there, they said, I'm. 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.760 Gonna talk to your daddy or I'm talk to your 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.120 mama or whatever. That kid would listen or straighten up. 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.040 The day you'll get cursed out. You might get shot 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.520 or killed if you approach somebody's kid. So we had 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.520 more family, more structure back in the early seventies. 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:18.080 Did you think of this as a as a safe 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.760 place for families and children at that time? 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:21.080 Oh? 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:27.399 Yeah, you know this was this was a family oriented. 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.720 My mother and father, they were right up the street. 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.080 Like Derek said, you know, you looked out for each other. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.960 In the black community, we always say nothing goes on 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:42.359 that somebody didn't see. 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:44.680 Here's Romaine Jenkins. 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:49.840 Again, there's always you have a certain portion of the neighborhood, 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.399 then hang out. Some of the older guys who'd like 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.280 to drink liquor. They would sit outside three hundred and 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.960 sixty five days a year, but they're there so if 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.760 something happened, they would see it. Then you had the 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.320 older people like my mother and her posse. They would 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.879 sit in their window and they saw everything that went down. 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.120 So if you were around the corner acting up, your 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:15.800 mother got a call, or your grandmother says she's around 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.320 there showing off. Oh yes, And when you got home, 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:20.960 you got it. But they looked out for each other. 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.600 You felt safe, you know, you felt safe in your neighborhood. 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:25.840 Nobody was gonna bother you. 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:31.480 This is why it's strange that supposedly no credible witnesses 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.159 actually saw what happened to Carol. And it's exactly why 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.280 when she went missing, the neighborhood was in full gear 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:39.000 to find her. 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.560 The community was kind of upset at the very beginning 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:47.120 because there were lots of people out looking for Carol Sphinx, 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.160 because it was not like her not to come back home. 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.480 She should have been headed home, and she was seen 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:53.399 headed home in the. 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:54.639 Direction of her house. 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:59.320 They had lots of search parties, people looking, but to 0:22:59.400 --> 0:22:59.960 no avail. 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:02.840 I mean, I was born in nineteen seventy in La 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.399 They sounds very much like it was here. There was 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:08.879 always somebody out there is a you know, somebody's uncle 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:13.160 in a tank top drinking a forty and somebody's auntie 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:15.800 down the street sitting on their front porch, fanning themselves 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:19.000 with their church fans. And I keep wondering as I 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:22.080 read about these cases, how did nobody see anything? 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:28.320 Because whoever did the cases fit right into the community, 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.800 never raised any suspicion at all, and that's how he 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.840 was able to do what he did. Nobody would would 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.920 question if they saw him talking to a little girl 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.760 or anything. They wouldn't They wouldn't question it. That's my 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:44.280