1 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, what am I made out of? You're made 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: of particles? Uh? And my lunch particles? What about the sun? 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: Also particles? Okay? Now what are all of those particles 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: made out of? Probably smaller particles, says it. Particles all 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: the way down. Is there anything that's not a particle? 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: You're asking a particle physicist, So what else do you 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: expect to hear? An actual particle of explanation? Well, I 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: think this podcast is basically a particle. Is it made 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: out of? Explain eons? Bad punions? Bad? I had a 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: bad punion last week. Didn't go over well? Hi or 11 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: handmade cartoonists and the creator of PhD Comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. 12 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: I'm a real particle physicist, not a quasi particle physicist. 13 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Quasi Explain the Universe, 14 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: a real production of Radio That's Right, in which we 15 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: talk about all the things that are real, all the 16 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: things that are crazy, and all the things that are imagined, 17 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: and our interpretation of all of them. We break them 18 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: down for you and try to give you an understanding 19 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: of what's going on out there and how scientists are 20 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: thinking about it all the mysteries of the universe, all 21 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: the unanswered questions, and all the amazing facts that we 22 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: have learned. We bring it all to you with a 23 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: pun or two. It's right, all of the things that 24 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: are out there and all the things that might also 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: be out there that scientists are not sure actually exist 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: or are even real, even some things that could be 27 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: semi real. Isn't that a weird term, Daniel, semi real 28 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: almost real? It's semi weird. Yeah. Yeah, Well, you know 29 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: there's a whole rabbit hole we could get down into 30 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: there by like what is real even mean? Man? But 31 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: I don't think we've smoked enough banana pee is yet 32 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: today to get there, or like our rabbits even real. 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: That's another rabbit hole in itself. And why are they 34 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: chasing bananas down rabbit holes? Like that never made any sense. Yeah, 35 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: So everything's a particle. It seems like, you know, all 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: matter in the universe, And so it kind of begs 37 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: the question like what are particles themselves made out of 38 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: and what is not made out of particles? And could 39 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: there be something else that's not a particle but still 40 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: make up matter? Yeah, And particles are sort of an 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: idea that we have. I mean, we look out in 42 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: the universe and we break things up and we see 43 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: them as smaller and smaller bits, and then we have 44 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: this notion that the smallest piece might be this dot. 45 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: But the whole concept of a particle is a little 46 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: bit fuzzy. We've talked on the podcast about the discovery 47 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: of particles. Whate really means to be a particle? You know, 48 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: the first particle ever discovered was the electron. It was 49 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: really just the identification of a point in space that 50 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: where you had charge and mass at the same time, 51 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: like this little cluster of quantum labels. And since then 52 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: we've added stuff to it. You know, particles can have spin, 53 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: that can have magnetic moments, that can do all sorts 54 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: of crazy stuff. But still this concept of like what 55 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: is a particle what does it mean remains a little 56 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: bit fuzzy. You know, they don't have any volume, They 57 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: do all sorts of weird things. Sometimes they act like waves, 58 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: and so it begs the question of like our particles 59 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: real or they're just something sort of in our mind? 60 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: And can we apply this notion of particles to other things? Also, now, Daniel, 61 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: as a disclaimer, we we should say that you are 62 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: a particle physicist, so you might not be entirely neutral 63 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: on this subject, might be a little biased. Or I'm 64 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: an expert, right, so you should you should listen carefully 65 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: to my thoughts about it, because I'm well informed. No, 66 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: it's certainly true, and I like to think of the 67 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: universe in terms of particles. I'd like to think that 68 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: the universe can be explained in terms of a bunch 69 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: of little microscopic things, that everything is really just an 70 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: emergent phenomena of the microscopic I guess a particle physicists, 71 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: everything looks like a party, just like I've heard astronomers say, 72 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: we're all made out of stars. I'm like, mmmm, that's convenient. Yeah, 73 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: And it's sort of a question of scale. Even astronomers 74 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: some times they treat like the whole sun as a particle. 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: You know, when you're doing your gravitational calculations about you know, 76 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: moving a planet around a star, you don't really care 77 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: about how big the star is. You're so far from 78 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: it that you can effectively treat the whole star as 79 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: if it was a point mass at the center of 80 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: mass of the star. And that's basically calling it a particle. 81 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: It's saying, I don't care about any other details. I'm 82 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: just gonna put it as a point. So it's a 83 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: very powerful concept, even if you're not gainfully employed in 84 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: the field. Right, And generally speaking, it just kind of 85 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: means like a packet of stuff, right, Yeah, it's sort 86 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: of like a little cluster of labels. You know, you 87 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: can put a mass on and a spin on it, 88 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: you know, other kind of quantum labels. But yeah, it's 89 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: like a little cluster of labels. Yeah, like a whole 90 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: bunch of little labels moving around together. Yeah. Like we've 91 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,239 Speaker 1: talked about how the new trino, you know, it carries 92 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: a weak label but doesn't carry one for the strong force, 93 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: and if photons don't carry any mass, but they do 94 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: carry information about electromagnetic fields. And so to me, I 95 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: think about these things having their little dots in space 96 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: that have labels on them. And so there's this concept 97 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: in physics called a quasi particle. Is it quasi or 98 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: quasi part I'm quasi sure that it's quasi particle. Obviously 99 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: quasi experts in vocabulary here and pronunciation. If we're wrong, 100 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: we're only quasi wrong. It's better than being semi wrong, 101 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: I guess or pseudo wrong, pseudo experts. There you go. 102 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: And this came to us from listeners actually who had 103 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: a question about what these things are. Listeners, Linda Campbell, 104 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: Nick Beatrice, Jack Case, Tim Davis, they all wrote to 105 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: us asking what a quasi particle is. That's right. If 106 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: you have a question about something you'd like us to 107 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: talk about, right to us, because we will actually answer 108 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: your email and sometimes even do a podcast on it. 109 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: And these folks had seen articles about quasi particles and 110 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: asked us to explain it. What is a quasi particle? 111 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: What does it mean? And have we gone too far 112 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: with this concept of particles? Impossible? You can't have enough particles, 113 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,799 Speaker 1: said to a particle physicist, you can't have too many particles. 114 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's such a nice idea. Now we don't know, right, 115 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: like we don't know if particles go on forever, if 116 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: you can get down to the smallest possible particle, or 117 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: if you get small enough particles doesn't really work and 118 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: you need something else, like you know, pixels of space 119 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: or little strings or something else. But so far, it's 120 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: a very nice idea to explain the world around us, 121 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: Like if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. 122 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: If you have a particle collider, everything looks like a particle. Yeah. 123 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: And if particles have worked, then you extend the idea. 124 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: You're like, well, let's see if this would also help 125 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: us understand this other problem. And we do that in 126 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: physics and in math all the time. We take strategies 127 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: from one field and we apply them somewhere else to 128 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: see if we can make connections. You know, one of 129 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: Newton's greatest leaps forward conceptually was understanding that the same 130 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: rules applied in the heavens and on Earth. And that's 131 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: all we're trying to do. We're trying to use the 132 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: concept we discovered in particle physics, the group theory, the symmetry, 133 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: the conservation laws, and apply them other places. Yes, Daniel, 134 00:06:54,040 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: but what is heaven made out of particles? Particles, angel ons, halons? 135 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: There you go? Um. So, as usually, we were wondering 136 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: how many people out there actually had heard of this 137 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: concept or knew what it was. So Daniel went out 138 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: there into the wilds of the Internet to ask this 139 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: question and get people's responses. So before you listen to 140 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: these answers, think about it. For a second. Have you 141 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: heard of quasi particles and if somebody asked you, what 142 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: would you say. Here's what people had to say. Sounds 143 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: like something that has some of the properties of particles, 144 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: but perhaps doesn't satisfy all of the conditions. Either that 145 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: or some guy named quasi came up with a new particle, 146 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: probably something that wants to trick you that it's a particle, 147 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: and it's not guess that there are particles with more 148 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: than one. Quasi particles are virtual particles that don't follow 149 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: the rules. Crazy particles, particles which are created in the 150 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: vacuum because of the background energy of space that's sort 151 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: of there and they're not there. Maybe how that's how 152 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: that's something? Is that like a virtual particle or maybe 153 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: something that we've seen in the data when we've been 154 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: looking for particles that we can't quite explain. Particles have mass, 155 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: and quasi particles maybe doing maybe don't. Maybe they go 156 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: through a filter in the universe. Something that's almost a 157 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: particle or something very similar to one. I'm not a 158 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: native speaker and I had to look quasi in dictionary. 159 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: It can semi so coarse particle is semi particle, Quasi 160 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: means something that looks like something else. So I'm assuming 161 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: the quasi particle is a particle that looks like a 162 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: particle but really isn't. I would say a quasi particle 163 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: is a particle that may appear to be real, but 164 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: actually it's not. There was something super tiny. Well those 165 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: are some pretty good guesses. Yeah, I like the person 166 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: who looked it up in a dictionary. I'm like, I 167 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: know there's some rules here. You're not supposed to look 168 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: anything up or google anything, but you know, not being 169 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: a native speaker, I'll forgive them, right, Maybe there's just 170 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: quasi rules. So yeah, let's jump right into a daniel um. 171 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: What is a quasi particle. So a quasi particle is 172 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: called a quasi particle because it's something that behaves like 173 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: a particle, has some of the same properties that we 174 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: typically use to describe particles, like it's persistent, you know, 175 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: it sticks around. It's quantized. You know you can have 176 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: one or two without one and a half. Usually they're discreet, 177 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: but it's not actually fundamental. It's not like something that 178 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: is the building block of the universe. It's not a 179 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: ripple in the quantum field. It's usually like an excited 180 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: state of some macroscopic solid. It's something that behaves like 181 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: a particle, but it's not actually a particle. So does 182 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: that include like the protons and neutrons, you know, the 183 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: behavior like particles, but they're actually made out of smaller 184 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: particles inside. Is that kind of what you mean or 185 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: is it are you talking more like bigger scale? We're 186 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: talking bigger scale, I mean, and you could argue you 187 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: that protels and neutrons are not particles because they're not 188 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: fundamental and they don't have their own quantum fields, and 189 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: so in that sense, they really are an emergent phenomenon. 190 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: And we can get into that later on. I think 191 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: that's a fascinating question. But I think typically people think 192 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: when they talk about emergent phenomenon, they think about sort 193 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: of a larger scale. You know, imagine like you have 194 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: a glass of water in front of you and it 195 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: has that's sparkling. Water has bubbles. You can see those 196 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: bubble sort of move up through the water, and they 197 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: move sort of the way a particle does. They hold 198 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: their shape, they're consistent, you know, they're coherent. They move 199 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: through the water the same way a particle does. You 200 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: can apply a lot of the same mathematics and understanding 201 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: intuition that you apply to particles to that bubble in 202 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: the water, even though nobody thinks that bubbles are a 203 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: fundamental unit of the universe or that there's like a 204 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: quantum bubble fielding as a manifestation of maybe quarks are 205 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: made out of bubbles that we have yet discovered. Yeah, 206 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: it's bubble theory, you know, the same way you can 207 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: look at like the ocean and you can see a 208 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: wave moving through it. A wave is not a fundamental 209 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: proper of the universe. It's an emergent phenomena of all 210 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: these thousands and millions and trillions of particles all moving together. 211 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: But mathematically it's much more convenient to talk about the 212 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: wave than to track all the little particles that make 213 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: it up. So quasity particles in the same way, but 214 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: not really that big a scale on the scale, like 215 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: bubbles and waves, but you know, like excited states of solids, 216 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: like wiggles that pass through solids, or rotations of things 217 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: that move in a coherent way and and sort of 218 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: keep their identity as they pass through a solid, right 219 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: like sound waves. Also could a sound wave like a 220 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: shout or a screen be considered a quasi part of Yes, 221 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: sound waves like vibrations. Basically, if you break them down, 222 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: you can go down to like the quantum. The smallest 223 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: possible sound wave is like the vibration of a single 224 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: particle that is a quasi particle. It's called a phone on. 225 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: A phone on is like the I did not just 226 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: make that up. You can phone anybody and ask them 227 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: about it. It's seriously then, no, it's sort of like 228 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: a you know, it's a more general sense of what 229 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: a particle is. And here you have like a single 230 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: particle might be vibrating, and then it passes that vibration 231 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: off to the next particle and to the next particle 232 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: and the next thing. It's yeah, and it's quantized, right, 233 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: because these particles that are vibrating the atoms or whatever 234 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: in your lattice. You know, say, for example, I knock 235 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: on the desk in front of me, it sends sound 236 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: waves to the desk, or if I speak through the air. 237 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: Then those particles, the ones that are doing the wiggling, 238 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: their quantum particles. They have quantum states. It's like a 239 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: minimum amount of vibration that they can have. And so 240 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 1: if you have that minimum amount of vibration, they could 241 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: pass to the next one and pass to the next one. 242 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: And that's what keeps it like a coherent thing can't 243 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: just disperse out into infinitely smaller things. It sticks around 244 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: because of these quantum minimum They're almost like packets of stuff. 245 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: And it's sort of a mental game you can play 246 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: with yourself, like what's a particle and what's a quasi particle? 247 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: You know. Another great and classical example of a quasi 248 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: particle is the absence of a particle. What. Yeah, Like 249 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: you ever play that game where you have like a 250 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,599 Speaker 1: bunch of tiles and there's one open slot and you 251 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 1: have to slide the tiles around, like get them in 252 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: the right order, like the little puzzles. Yeah, those little puzzles. Well, 253 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: you can think about it like as the motion of 254 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of tiles, or you can think about it 255 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: as the motion of a hole of a gap. Right, 256 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: that gap is sort of moving through the puzzle. You're 257 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: moving that gap around, so that little hole is like 258 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: a particle. That little hole is sort of like another tile, right, 259 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: And so in the same way, if you have like 260 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of electrons, you can think about one 261 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: missing electron moving around like they have a ten slots 262 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: for electrons, but only nine electrons, so there's one hole, right, 263 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: and then if all the electrons move over, then the 264 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: whole moves the opposite way, right, the opposite way precisely. 265 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: So you can either think of it as moving like 266 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: every single electron over one slot, or you can just 267 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: think of it as the whole moving over one in 268 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: the other direction. There's two equivalent ways to think about it, 269 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: but one of them is simpler because you've abstracted away 270 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: a lot of complications, so you can think about it 271 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: and just this one blob in the same way that 272 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: like watching a bubble rise through water is simpler than 273 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: thinking about all the billions of little particles that are 274 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: making that happen. So you sort of like abstracted away 275 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: some stuff so you can apply your particle brain to 276 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: this new kind of thing. I see, you just kind 277 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: of blew my mind a little bit. Yeah, just to 278 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: think of that. Bubbles are not actually a thing. They're 279 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: just like water, molic is moving out of the way. 280 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: That's a bubble, Yeah, exactly, They're just getting pushed out 281 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: of the way by that air. But the arrangement is 282 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: sort of static. There's like a minimum size to those bubbles, 283 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: right because of surface tension or whatever. The bubbles can't 284 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: just break up into infinitely small bubbles and that's why 285 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: they stick around right until they eventually they pop. And 286 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: in the same way, like electrons can't split in half, 287 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: and so that's why you don't get these holes like 288 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: gradually filled in with partial electrons. Now, this sounds kind 289 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: of very macro like, you know, we're talking about bubbles 290 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: and ways. Now, is this something that you use a 291 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: particle physics deals with or is it more like a 292 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: bigger things physics. Neither. Actually, it's not something that I 293 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: deal with because I usually deal with actual particles, real particles, 294 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: you know, particles that are excitations of quantum fields. But 295 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: it's also not something that happens on the macro scale. 296 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: Usually it's most often on the micro scale. So it's 297 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: something in the adjacent field of condensed matter physics. People 298 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: who build like weird materials and you know, super fluidity 299 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: and think about super conductivity. I mean, another great example 300 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: of a quasi particle are pairs of electrons that cause 301 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: super conductivity. You know, one reason that metals have a 302 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: hard time being super conductive is because electrons are fermions. 303 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: They don't like to be in the lowest state together 304 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: with another one. But in super conducting materials, we did 305 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: a whole podcast episode about that, electrons like to group 306 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: together into pairs. They're called Cooper pairs, and they're pushed 307 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: together into these pairs and together they're actually bosons. They 308 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: have the opposite rules from fermions, and so they can 309 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: cool down and all occupy the same state and flow 310 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: smoothly over each other. So a Cooper pair is like 311 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: a pair of electrons sort of acting like a particle. 312 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: And so that's another example of a quaty particle. They're 313 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: often at this micro level. I guess the common thread 314 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: is that they maintain some sort of quantum property, right, 315 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: like a dust particle. Physics wouldn't call a quasi particle, right, 316 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: It has to sort of maintain that quantuminez feeling about it. Yeah, 317 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: And you know, you could probably argue that anything as 318 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: a quasi particle, but I would say that it should 319 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: be persistent, and it should be quantized, and it should 320 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: be discreete. So many Q words quanti quasi qualitative, quantity 321 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: of particles exactly and so it's fun. It's like an extrapolation. 322 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: And this is always really fascinating in science when you 323 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: can see something in the world and then apply those 324 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: same ideas somewhere else and gain some insight because it 325 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: kind of works, you know, it helps you. It simplifies 326 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: the problems so you can see the larger dynamics and 327 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: gives you an insight into what's going on. It lets 328 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: you use your intuition from somewhere else. And that's what 329 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: science is all about. It's not about figuring out the 330 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: rules for a and there for being there for see, 331 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: we want rules that explain everything. We want rules to 332 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: tie everything together. And so yeah, if you have a 333 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: hammer and you've hit a bunch of nails successfully, you're 334 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: gonna go around and hit everything else with that hammer 335 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: until they look like nails, until they break apart into particles. 336 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: Very convenient. It all works, See, it all works. All right, 337 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: let's get into what are some examples, some fun examples 338 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: of quasi particles, and then let's talk about whether they 339 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: or not they're actually real. But first let's take a 340 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: quick break. Al Right, I know we're quasi talking about 341 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: quasi particles. I'm really talking about real particles. And even 342 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: this podcast is sort of a quasi particle, right, I guess, 343 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: because you know, it sort of exists as electrons moving, 344 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: which are particles, and it gets toward as information and 345 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: it gets turned into sound ways, which are sort of 346 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: quasi particles too. That's right. This part cast cannot be 347 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: broken up into smaller pieces, and so it's therefore a 348 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: quantized podcast and cannot disperse the universe and must be 349 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: accepted into your brain. In total. It's both good and 350 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: bad at the same time. You're welcome, of course, to 351 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: listen to the podcast in five minute increments or twelve 352 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: minute increments or five all at once, so do with 353 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: as you please, of course. Oh my goodness. All right, well, 354 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: what are some examples of quasi particles, Like we talked 355 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: a little bit about phonons being like sound waves particles. Yeah, 356 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: Phonons are vibrations, they're like the quantum of sound waves, 357 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: are like the minimum component of sound waves. All sound 358 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: waves in a solid are built out of phonons, and 359 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: so the smallest possible sound wave you can have in 360 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: a solid is one phone on and you know, it's 361 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: just like energy moving through the solid. This atom vibrating 362 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: in a lattice, and then the next one vibrates and 363 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: the next one vibrates, and so you can think of 364 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: that as the phone on moving through. And I think 365 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: phone on is pretty cool word to ye. It makes 366 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: me think of like some sort of like Star Trek gun, 367 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: like you know, set your phone on, blasters on, wiggle um, 368 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's very reminiscent for me of 369 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: phoning it in. I feel like physicists phoned it in 370 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: when they came up with this name. They're like, what 371 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: do we call a sound wave particle? I know, a 372 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: phone on and I think it's awesome. Yeah, and then 373 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: all the other quasi particles all have sort of similar names. 374 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: You know, the kind of thing that's getting wiggled or 375 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: you know, moved through and then on at the end 376 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: of is it related to sort of like the medium 377 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: on which these things propagated or move around in, Because 378 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: I feel like a sound wave is quantized because the 379 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: underlying thing that they're on is quantized. So it's at 380 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: some point, you know, you can't make a smaller sound 381 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: wave because run into particle, that's right, because those particles 382 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: have quantized energy levels. Like, they can't wiggle at half 383 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: of their energy level. They can wiggle at one energy 384 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: level or two or three, but there's a minimum amount 385 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: of wiggle and that's why it's quantized. You know. That's why, 386 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: for example, they can't accept a photon of arbitrary energy. 387 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: They're resonant frequencies frequencies that solids like to accept photons 388 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: because it helps them move exactly one energy level up. 389 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: And also that's why solids give off light at certain frequencies, 390 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: because you know that's the resonant frequencies for that gas. 391 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: For example, I can excite up by absorbing a photon 392 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: and excite down by giving off that photon. And when 393 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: absorbs the photon, like, where does that energy go? It 394 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: goes into a phone on? Right. A phonon is the 395 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: energy moving through the gas. So photons get turned into phonons, right. Well, 396 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: that's fun to say. And so what are some other 397 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: examples of quasi particles? Well, basically every quantum property that 398 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: a particle can have when you put it in a lattice, 399 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: you can think about that property moving through the ladder. 400 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: What is like a like a grid of particles? Yeah, 401 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: every solid you can think of is like a grid 402 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: of particles, like a three D like a lego set 403 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: of particles put together. And so they're all back together, 404 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: back together. Each one is touching the one above and 405 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: below it into its left, into its right, forwards and backwards, 406 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: and they're sort of tied together by these bonds. And 407 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: that's what makes a solid, right, it's sort of like 408 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: a loose crystal. And so they're in this lattice so 409 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: they can pass information. Right, It's like if you're in 410 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: a crowd of people and everybody's whispering into their neighbor's ear, 411 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: you can pass information through the crowd, and so that 412 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: same way, like that's how these bonons get passed through 413 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: the crowd. But you can do it also with other 414 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: quantum properties like the particle spin. You said we could 415 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: do it with holes, but you can also do it 416 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: with like quantum properties like charge and mass and things 417 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: like that. That's a good point. I mean, for charge, 418 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: it's sort of holes, right. Holes essentially is the moving 419 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: of charge around, but they're the actual particle moves over, 420 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: like the electrons have to move over. You can't pass 421 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: charge from one particle to another the way you can 422 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: pass energy and electron moves from here or there, it 423 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: moves the charge with it, creating sort of like a 424 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: like a hole in the charge. Yeah, so you can 425 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: have quasi particles in like a particle gas right with 426 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: the electrons are free to move around. Then the apps 427 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: and of a particle is a quasi particle that whole. 428 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: But also in a lattice, you can have quasi particles 429 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: like the phonon, but also things like the magnon, which 430 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: is the the quantum of particle spin that helps create 431 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: the magnetic field that metals can have. For example. Now 432 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: that one does sound like a transformer, I have to say, 433 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: which I'm all for. Waits. A particle spin can also 434 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: move around like a wave. How does that work, Like 435 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: the orientation of it or what does that mean? Yeah, 436 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: the orientation of it. Remember, the particle spin is quantized. 437 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: So for example, an electron can be spin up or 438 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: spin down. So say you have a bunch of electrons 439 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: that are all spin down except for one that's spin up. 440 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: Then it can sort of pass that spin to the 441 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: next electron making its spin up, And it can pass 442 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: that spin to the next electron it can make its 443 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: spin up, so the spin up nous can move through 444 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: this sort of grid of electrons, and you can think 445 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: of that it's like, oh, well, I got a bunch 446 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: of electrons summer spin up and summer spin down. Or 447 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: you can think of it like, oh, I have a 448 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: magnon that's moving through a sea of electrons because like 449 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: one particle will give it's been to the next particle, 450 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: or or just from the gap of it. Yeah, they 451 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: can transfer because they couple to each other a little bit. 452 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: You know, Electrons talk to each other, they bounce around, 453 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: they share energy, they interact, and spin is conserved. So 454 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 1: you can't just like have them all be spin up. 455 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 1: If they're all spin down except for one, then you 456 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: have to have one electron spin up. It's just a 457 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: question of which one. And because it's quanti as, you 458 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: can't have like half spin up and a third spin up. 459 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: You need to pass the whole thing over from electron 460 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: to electron. And so the magnon moves around. Is it 461 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: like the potato in a game of pot potato? Exactly exactly, 462 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: But I'm not sure. Maybe the electrons want to be 463 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: spin up, right, Maybe it's like, hey, give me that 464 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: hot potato. No, give me that hot potato. I can't 465 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: speak for the electrons. We should just rename the game 466 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: to magnons or quasi potatoes, and then every time you 467 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: want to play with your four year olds, you have 468 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: to explain to them quasi particles, and then you know 469 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: they're not interested in anymore, and then nobody wants to play. 470 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: But these are actually really cool and they have other 471 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 1: applications and particle physics, like if you search for magnons, 472 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,479 Speaker 1: you can be sensitive to really small effects. Like if 473 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: you get a field of particles and they're really quiet, 474 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: then you can look for magnons as evidence of like 475 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: maybe dark matter has come through and hit one of 476 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: these electrons and given it a spin, and so you 477 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: can try to measure these things using very very sensitive 478 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,959 Speaker 1: magnetometers because remember the spin of the particle effects it's 479 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: magnetic field, and so that's why we call it a magnal. 480 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: It all goes back to dark matter, doesn't it. In 481 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: the end, it's only exciting if it can help you 482 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: find dark matter. I guess maybe right, because it motivates 483 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: why you want to study it. Maybe it's a big mystery. Yeah, 484 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: But here it's just like this is a cool idea 485 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: and it gives us a new way to look for 486 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: something really cool, and it's an example of why it 487 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: is good to use like particle physics ideas in other areas, 488 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: Like you can get this inside into condensed matter and 489 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: how spin moves around in the lattice of electrons, and 490 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: then that gives you an idea for how to look 491 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: for some thing else cool and news. So you know, 492 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: it's sort of like refreshes you creatively intellectually to like 493 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: look at something from a new perspective. So is the 494 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: idea then that, like if I have a whole bunch 495 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: of electrons and they're just hanging out and suddenly there's 496 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: like a potato in the middle, they're like, You're like, 497 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: must have been dark matter that gave us that potato, right, 498 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: or you know spin obviously, But is it kind of 499 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: like that, Like if there's suddenly a potato in the middle, 500 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: you've gotta wonder where that potato came from. Yeah, exactly, 501 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: And eventually one dark matter experiment will have to be 502 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: called potato based on this podcast, Yeah, physics ordinary what's 503 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: the right acronym there? Transfer Well, while you work on that, 504 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, these things actually do have special power to 505 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: discover dark matter because the kind of dark matter experiments 506 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: we have right now are mostly waiting for dark matter 507 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: to bump into the nucleus of the atom, you know, 508 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: the big heavy protons and neutrons, and we see that 509 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: kind of nuclear recoil, You see that getting kicked, and 510 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: that requires kind of heavy dark matter, because you've got 511 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: to be big enough to like give it a kick. 512 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: The dark matter is really really whispy, then won't move 513 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: those neutrons and protons even if it does bump into them. 514 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 1: But these magnon detectors could be much more powerful as 515 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: a way to search for a very very light, very 516 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: low mass dark matter. And since we haven't found dark 517 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: matter at the higher masses where we've looked for it, 518 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: it's quite exciting to say, oh, look, we can build 519 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: new detectors that might be sensitive to even whispy or 520 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: dark matter. Because electrons are more sensitive than protons and neutrons, 521 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: well they're just lighter and so they're easier to kick. Right, 522 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: if you are a very light particle, then you're gonna 523 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: have a bigger effect bumping into an electron. Then you 524 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: are bumping into a proton or neutron, which is like 525 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, a boulder in comparison. So if dark matter 526 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: can interact with electrons, then you would see it in 527 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: a very kind of maybe bigger way if you look 528 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: for these quantum spin quasi particles. Yeah, if you look 529 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: for Magnon's exactly. I feel like you don't want to say. 530 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: Magna is such a fun word. Yeah, Magnon, Magnon. And 531 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: there are lots of other kinds of quasi particles. You know, 532 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: there are polarns. This is when electrons interact with the 533 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: polarization of ions. Wait, I just came up with a joke, Daniel. 534 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: If you make this project, if you set up this experiment, 535 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: you should call it the Magnon Particle Interface Maximon Particle 536 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: Infation mp I, No Magnan p I. The ready for 537 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: prime time. Everybody has to unbutton their shirt two buttons 538 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: to work on this experiment. Yeah, and have a month. 539 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: I'll start growing it. Then there's the like there are 540 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: rotons if you have like a fluid rot If you 541 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: have a fluid, then you can get like vortices in it, right, 542 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: you can like little whirlpools and the sort of the 543 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: minimum amount of vortex that you can get turns out 544 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: to be quantized because of how these particles can spin, 545 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: and so that's what a roton is. It's like the 546 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: minimum quantum of vortices, I guess, because the medium again 547 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: is quantized, so you know, a little like vortices also 548 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: have to quantize because there's a minimum size to these particles. Yeah, 549 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: and they have energy levels, and just the same way 550 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: that phonons exist because solids and allattics have energy levels 551 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: to their vibrations. Fluids also have energy levels, and these 552 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: particles inside them, these vortices have sort of a minimum 553 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: energy level, and so that's that's where you get routons, 554 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: and then you get other really weird things. And you 555 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: can apply this really broadly, and it's been like an 556 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: explosion of different kinds of quasi particles people have sort 557 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: of created or or conceived of. You know, they even 558 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: have like weird two dimensional quasi particles. All right, let's 559 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: get into the rest of these quasi examples of quasi particles, 560 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: and then let's get into whether or not they're actually real, 561 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: like philosophically, could we call them real things? And how 562 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: does that maybe put into question the particles and we're 563 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: being out of But first let's take another quick break, 564 00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: all right. I know, so we covered the phone on 565 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: the magnan and the rotons. What other ons of people 566 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: sort of discovered or study. One of my favorites is 567 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: this weird one. It's an excitation in plasma. So plasma 568 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: is like you take gas and you heat it up 569 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: so much that the electrons and the nucleus separate, right, 570 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: the electron becomes free, and you have like a charged 571 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: gas and this is really hot and nasty stuff, and 572 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's what the sun is made out of, 573 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: and it's what we used to try to do fusion. 574 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,239 Speaker 1: And sometimes you can get it acting in sort of 575 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: like sheets. You can get these like sheets of plasma 576 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: layering on top of each other because these things have 577 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: charges and so like you can get like a negatively 578 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: charged sheet and then a positively charged sheet, and then 579 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: a negatively charged sheet sort of like stack up on 580 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: top of each other, and weird ripples passed through these 581 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: two d sheets of plasma. And these things are called plasma. 582 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: That would be a good one, but no, they're called 583 00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: for reasons I don't understand. They're called an eons but 584 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: like a n y on and you know, It makes 585 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: me wonder, like, how did they come up with that name? 586 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: Like maybe all the other as were taken and somebody said, 587 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: is there anything left ding oh anyon nons or something, Daniel, 588 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: what do you call a quasi particle made out of 589 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: quasi particles? A quasi quasi particle an on? Of course, Man, 590 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: I walked into all these terrible jigs you are, I 591 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: am just firing off the quasi pat chokes here. But 592 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: there's some really cool mathematical features of these things, Like 593 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: these anions they actually act like two dimensional particles. It's 594 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: like a mathematical system that we don't see in reality. 595 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: You know, our universe is in three dimensions, so our 596 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: particles move in three dimensions, and there's different mathematics that 597 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: apply to two dimensions, the surface of things and the 598 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: surface area of things, and how things diffuse, you know, 599 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: instead of going like one over our square, that goes 600 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: like one over our And these anions actually exhibit those 601 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: mathematical properties as if they were too d particles. And 602 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: that's really kind of cool. That's just like test out 603 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: these mathematics in real life interesting because then then you 604 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: can have like different kinds of physics, right like you 605 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: can have too D physics, which could be totally different. Yeah, 606 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: it is totally different, and it's fascinating to see it. 607 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: And like, of course it's made out of three D things, 608 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: so it's not really two D, but it's sort of 609 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: like a physical simulation of two D, which is really 610 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: pretty cool because you see these effects happening, but sort 611 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: of you know, quasi, there's like on the meta level, 612 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: you're like abstracted it out. And in this interpretation of 613 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: these plasma wiggles where I call these an eons and 614 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: treat them like particles that I see, that follows exactly 615 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: the math you would expect for actual two D particles, 616 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: and that's pretty cool. Like you can describe them with 617 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: wave functions even though they're they're not like they're just 618 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: gaps in other wave functions. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You can 619 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: describe them with wave functions and all the mathematics we 620 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: use for particle physics, but in two D. So that's 621 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: pretty awesome. All right, what are some other cool quasi particles? 622 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: I think maybe the That's what I'm excited about is 623 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: the exciton. There's actually a part of the exciton. Yeah, 624 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: and it's not like the quantum unit of Daniel's enthusiasm 625 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: for science. You know, it's has a minimum are you 626 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: saying there's a minimum excitability threshold always above zero? It's 627 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: always above zero. And this is when you get an electron, 628 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: which is a particle, you know, and a whole. So 629 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: a hole is already a quasi particle, right, it's the 630 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: absence of an electron. It's where it's a gap where 631 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: you might expect an electron. But sometimes electrons and holes 632 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: can interact with each other because that a whole is 633 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: in effect positively charged, right, The absence of a negative 634 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: charge is like a positive charge, and so the electron 635 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: and the whole can interact and they can actually form 636 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: these bound states. One electron will will drag a hole 637 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: behind it, and so they're sort of moving together. The 638 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: electron would drag the whole, Yeah, the electron will drag 639 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: the hole behind it, because you know, whole is sort 640 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: of like the absence of an electron. And you know, 641 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: these are all things that come out of like complex 642 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: interactions between the electrons and the positive ions that they're 643 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: embedded in. And you know, not all these things last 644 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: for that long, you know, like Cooper pairs don't tend 645 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: to last for very long in super conducting materials, but 646 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: you can still apply the mathematics to them for as 647 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: long as they do live. And so do you call 648 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: that carrying another particle? So a quasi particle with a particle, 649 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: you can group them into a quasi particle too, Yeah, exactly. 650 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: So it's just like you were saying before, it's a 651 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: quasi particle made out of a particle, and a quasi 652 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: particle seems really meta. It's pretty meta, and it lets 653 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: us explore sort of the theoretical space for particles that 654 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: we don't see in terms of fundamental particles. Like we 655 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: talked on the podcast recently about whether neutrinos are their 656 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: own anti particle. And this is a special kind of 657 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: particle called a myrona for me in invented by an 658 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: Italian guy and toward a marna. And we've never seen 659 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: a myrona for meon Like, we don't know if neutrinos 660 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: are their own antiparticles. We're curious about it. We've never 661 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: seen it. But in quasi particles, we've seen quasi particles 662 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: that have this property that are their own anti particles, 663 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: where two of them when they bump into each other, 664 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: they annihilate, And so we sort of have seen the 665 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: mathematics of my ironic formons work on the level of 666 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: quasi particles, even if we haven't seen it work for 667 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: fundamental particles. And that tells you that, okay, well the 668 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: math is right. If those particles exist, they're out there, 669 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: we know what they would do. All right. Well, let's 670 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: get into the question of maybe the more philosophical question, 671 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: which is our quasi particles real? Are they just kind 672 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: of like phenomenon or do you think there's something fundamental 673 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: about them in the universe. We don't know if they're real, 674 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: or I guess we don't know if they're fundamental. We 675 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: don't know if anything is real, right, I mean, quasi 676 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: particles are a mathematical way to describe, like some information, 677 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: some labels, moving through a material. You could say the 678 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: same thing about particles, except there the material is not 679 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: like a solid or crystal. It's a quantum field, right. Particles. 680 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: We say this on the podcast all the time. Particles 681 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: are just excited little blobs of energy moving through a 682 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: quantum field. And we had a listener question recently, like 683 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: why do we have particles at all? And we said 684 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: that there there's like a minimum energy that quantum fields 685 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: can store, and that energy moves around and that's what 686 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: we think of as a part of it. So maybe 687 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: this whole particle idea is a human idea. It's just 688 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: our interpretation of a localized packet of energy, and we 689 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: apply that to what we call fundamental particles that we 690 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: don't know if they're fundamental, and also to sort of 691 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: larger groupings of things. So I find that argument kind 692 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: of persuasive that there really is nothing fundamental interesting, Like 693 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: maybe everything should just be called an energy on or 694 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: something like that, you know what I mean, Like everything, 695 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: like everything is just an excitation, Like everything is just 696 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: a lip in something else. Yeah, exactly. And maybe it's 697 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: not fair to have a distinction between particles and quasi particles. 698 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: That all particles, right um, they're all really the same. 699 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: It's just a question of like what are you wiggling? 700 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: Are you wiggling some other matter or you're wiggling a 701 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: quantum field. What it makes me think is like what 702 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: if quantum fields are actually made out of other little things? 703 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like maybe but we just 704 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: can't see them. Yes, very likely they are because our 705 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: description of the universe in terms of quantum fields doesn't 706 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: really work at some levels. So a lot of open 707 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: questions we've talked about, you know, why do we have 708 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: so many of these fields? Why do we have like 709 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,359 Speaker 1: several different kinds of forces, each of their own kind 710 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: of field. Are they all just part of one field? 711 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: Is there even really a field? Or is it an 712 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: emergent property of something deeper? And so I think that 713 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: you know, this era of particle physics, where we talk 714 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: about the universe in terms of particles and the fields 715 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: that they wiggle on, this is probably a temporary phase 716 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: in the sort of the longer history of physics, before 717 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 1: we dig in and we find some other concept, right, 718 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: because you know, the concept of particle is only like 719 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: a hundred and something years old. We could very well 720 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 1: come up with a new mathematical concept that the universe 721 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: is based out of. That's what string theory is the onion, 722 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: I'm telling you man, you heard it here first, folks. 723 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: That's right. It has layers. Is a theory that has 724 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: layers and makes you cry. It makes me cry the 725 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: more I hear about it, exactly, but slice into it. Yeah, 726 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: but you know what I mean like like maybe what 727 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: we think of as fundamental right now, like quirks and 728 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: the electron, maybe they're just like holes in the medium 729 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 1: of other stuff, smaller particles. Yeah. Absolutely, and everything that 730 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: we have, all these ideas, we have, this understanding we 731 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: have about the universe. These are just ideas in our 732 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: head to describe the experiments that we do and the 733 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: observations we make. We don't know that any of it 734 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: is like true in any sense. It's just useful and 735 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: seems to work, and it seems awfully true because it 736 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: really really works. We're gonna do an episode next week 737 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: about like the super high precision of the predictions, Like 738 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: the mathematics of these fields and these particles gets things 739 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: right on to like twelve fifteen decimal places. So it 740 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: seems really true, but we don't know that it is. 741 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: I I remember having this moment in college when I 742 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: was learning about quantum mechanics and seeing one of these 743 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: calculations where the calculation was done and the experiment was 744 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: done and the two agreed to like fifteen decimal places, 745 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, Wow, it's like this theory is 746 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: not just good, it's like what the universe is doing 747 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: and that could be true. It could be that the 748 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: universe has field and it's doing these field calculations to 749 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: describe how particles move. But it could also be that 750 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: that's totally wrong and it's just an emergent picture or 751 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: something much simpler, much deeper, that hopefully we'll stumble across soon. 752 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: Like maybe it's just a big coincidence. It could just 753 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: be And it could be, you know that the way 754 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: that we think about it, and who happened to be 755 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: around when we started thinking about it, and the ideas 756 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: that they had. If you ran like history twice or 757 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: ten times or fifteen times, you might get very different 758 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: mathematics and therefore very different sort of like intellectual notions 759 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: about how to organize our knowledge about the universe. And 760 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: that's really what a particle is. It's a human organization 761 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: of our knowledge of the universe. So you might have 762 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: come up with a different idea and science could have 763 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: followed a very different path. Well, Daniel, I feel definitely 764 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: a few excitans about the whole endeavor and to learning 765 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,959 Speaker 1: more about this. It is kind of a cool way 766 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: to so to see the universe, like maybe the universe 767 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: we see when we look at the stars, and when 768 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: we look at ourselves in the mirror, you know, we're 769 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: all just kind of like little packets of excitability, of 770 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: little pockets of energy. It's just kind of rippling around. Yeah, 771 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: and it's fun to think that you can explore that 772 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: on the micro micro micro level. You can break yourself 773 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: up and and think about the smaller and smaller particles. 774 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: But it also works the other direction. You can build 775 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: up from there and think of like particles at another 776 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: level and a meta level, and it's still kind of works. 777 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: And then that's sort of amazing. That tells you that 778 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, this concept of like a packet of energy 779 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: or packet of excitation moving around, maybe that is something 780 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: real and true in the universe. Interesting, Like everyone listening 781 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: to this podcast is you on, A person on a person, 782 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: a person on Daniel, It's already there. I bet they're 783 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: hoping that you will move on from this jew All right, 784 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: let's let's phone it in and phone on it in 785 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: and wrap it up. Time to go on. All right, Well, 786 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed that discussion, 787 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: that that quasi discussion and maybe look at the universe 788 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: in a slightly a different way and Thanks to everybody 789 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: for writing in with your curiosity. We love hearing what 790 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: you are curious about. The goal of our podcast is 791 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: to bring you to the forefront of science, and so 792 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: when you hear something talked about you don't understand, send 793 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: it to us. We will break it down for you. 794 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: We will explain it to you in a way that 795 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: makes sense and hopefully makes you giggle on See you 796 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and 797 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of my Heart Radio. 798 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: For more podcast from my Heart Radio and visit the 799 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, Apple Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 800 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H