00:00:00 Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 00:00:08 Speaker 2: What's Up, Everybody, It's Sugar Steve from Team Supreme. June marks Black Music Month. We often speak about it on Questlo Supreme and we've had some of the legends responsible for the recognition on the show. Every day this June, we are running a different episode from the QLs archives to honor the tradition and intent of Black Music Month. This week we are focusing on some of the great hip hop conversations that in the ULS catalog. Our leader Questlove has a new book out called hip Hop Is History. Check it out at questlove dot com. Next up, we are revisiting our conversation with legendary producer, DJ and artist Prince Paul, who revolutionized album making and production techniques. 00:00:51 Speaker 3: Breathords Supremo Supremo, roll Call, Supreme O, Supremo called Suprema Supremo, Role called Suprema Suprema. 00:01:07 Speaker 1: Role seventy Chaka Khan. Yeah, yeah, that freaking movie. 00:01:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, freaking. 00:01:16 Speaker 5: Supreme Supreme Rod and I still messed up. I forgot rufus Supreme Rod. 00:01:24 Speaker 4: My name is Fantee. Yeah it is not Eugene. Yeah, but what does touche. 00:01:34 Speaker 3: Suprema role called supreme Suprema role. 00:01:40 Speaker 6: My name is sugar Yeah with Prince Paul Yeah, three ft high Yeah and high Supreme Suprema role called killing Supremo Supremo roll. 00:01:57 Speaker 7: Yeah with Paul in the place. Yeah, you better get out of my way. Yeah, I punch you in your face. 00:02:03 Speaker 8: Whoa Supreme son. 00:02:10 Speaker 3: Upreme my role? 00:02:11 Speaker 8: Blah blah blah blah head line I missed, Yeah, shout out to Prince Paul. Yeah, next up on this whoa Supreme. 00:02:26 Speaker 4: Supreme roll went up? The name is Paul Jesus Jesus, y'all. 00:02:32 Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm here, y'all, y'all. 00:02:34 Speaker 4: Hope to cease. 00:02:38 Speaker 1: Suppreme my role. 00:02:40 Speaker 3: Actually, so supreme roll came Supremo Supreme roll call Supreme. 00:02:50 Speaker 5: Supreme my role. Wait, Wow, that was pressure. Were you actually surprised that we told you to do a verse? 00:02:58 Speaker 1: Yeah? 00:02:58 Speaker 4: Yeah, man at the top, that you're going to do it. The last time I did Ron will Rise not falls? 00:03:10 Speaker 1: All right, Well you know years later here you go, wow that Yeah, yeah, that's right. Oh, anyway, you ain't you were on that. It was on that he was. 00:03:21 Speaker 4: The last one way and something you guys talking about that, I'm not alone. 00:03:27 Speaker 9: It was we Yeah, your skits have been co opted so many times by people in this room, like. 00:03:32 Speaker 4: What ladies, I got it? 00:03:34 Speaker 5: Ladies and gentlemen, Uh, this is a special episode. 00:03:39 Speaker 1: It's not, ladies, and tell me this is a very unspecial episode. You know. Usually I start with the. 00:03:48 Speaker 5: Grandios over the top intro, but really, I will say that perhaps our special guest today is one of the first paradigm shifts and hip hop culture, meaning that it's it's his it's his brain space that allowed dweebs like me to uh make a living and in this world that we call hip hop, A lot of his leftist center and crazy ideas really resonated with nerds. I mean it made nerds feel included. And thanks, what are you trying to say about? 00:04:32 Speaker 1: You are our leader, ladies, and tell me please welcome our leader. Prince Paul. 00:04:38 Speaker 4: Made it after almost a year, I'm trying to be here. 00:04:42 Speaker 1: Oh man, you're thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it, thank you for still coming, thank you, thank you for I. 00:04:48 Speaker 8: Wish I couldnt how many times I have text message that says when is principal coming? 00:04:51 Speaker 10: I'm telling you tomorrow. 00:04:54 Speaker 5: Oh you know, wait, yeah, there's still special this. This is definitely going to be a nerd out episode. 00:05:00 Speaker 1: I don't almost thought after me being the leader of the nerds apparently, I mean, do people, because I feel like you are the leader of the god of people that read liner notes on albums like that's that's I don't have to say nerds. 00:05:21 Speaker 5: I'll just say if you read liner notes and you love hip hop culture, then you know, Prince Paul is a part of your life. 00:05:28 Speaker 4: Who doesn't read liner notes? Maybe I am the nerd now well, I don't know line of notes to read? Well yeah nowadays? Yeah, just look at the picture. 00:05:36 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:05:36 Speaker 5: But I mean it's just, you know, a lot of things that you've done, are you know, they speak to just beyond the yes, yes, y'all crowd. 00:05:48 Speaker 1: So how are you today? 00:05:50 Speaker 4: Man? I'm good. I'm glad to be here. You know, it's good to see you. I mean you, I catch you every once in a while. 00:05:56 Speaker 5: It's been a second actually, you know, it's weird, like we've been doing a few DJ gigs together and I have to say that your selection your selection as of late at least the last two or three DJ gigs i've seen. I'm shocked at how you expand because usually in our cultural range, a lot of guys like to stay in the lane that they've been known for. Like you know, certain DJs will play music that only they produced in a certain period. 00:06:33 Speaker 4: I mean the Prince Paul Medle If I did that, everybody stop dancing. They try socialize, go to the bar, get drinks, you know, los igo pee no. But you grow up in whatever order like you Actually you cater to the crowd that's watching you, which I was amazed at. I was like, okay, so he's not being hard at because a lot of people just be like yo, man, I hate this particular time period and I hate modern hip hop and I'll just stick to you know, eighty six to ninety four, And you were going all over the place, like you playing trapshit that I was shocked that you were even aware of. 00:07:11 Speaker 1: I maybe shazamed one or two songs that he played. 00:07:15 Speaker 4: So now, I mean, the part of it is it's gonna sound cheesy, but good music is good music no matter whatever. It's just harder to find it in this era. You know what I'm saying, but I'll extract stuff and I have to thank my son for all the trap knowledge. 00:07:30 Speaker 1: Yeah that was my. 00:07:32 Speaker 4: It's it. You know, he's parting and I my whod school MD James since nineteen seventy seven, since I was ten. So I come from an era where you rock the party. Do you know what I'm saying? 00:07:42 Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with anything else. 00:07:44 Speaker 4: You know, It's like your job is to defeat and annihilate every DJ that's around you and then kind of make the party jump. 00:07:52 Speaker 1: Well yeah, you definitely uh annihilated. 00:07:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think so. 00:07:57 Speaker 3: No. 00:07:58 Speaker 1: I was like because it was at the Try party. 00:07:59 Speaker 5: I was like, oh man, I was gonna do all these nice soft tribe samples and. 00:08:03 Speaker 4: You want to do your last record? Was like little Yeah. I was like, man, I gotta they already turned sea. But you got it. You got a perfect because you walk in and goes the lights couple no technicals, like like wow, no kissed the ring. 00:08:20 Speaker 1: Anyway, We're not gonna get stuck in this circle. 00:08:24 Speaker 10: But I'm not going to give you a compliment. Don't worry. But then my reason where your son is a DJ for Uzi Bird is that is that true? 00:08:31 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, DJs. 00:08:33 Speaker 5: Wow, oh no, wonder you know so much of it? I was like, yo, Paul's knowledge is amazing. 00:08:38 Speaker 4: Yeah, but you won't catch me dabbing anything. What's the new dance? So I noticed, everything goes like, yes, wait, how was your son? He's twenty five? 00:08:49 Speaker 1: Oh oh, you go almost to be your grandfather. 00:08:52 Speaker 4: Only Hey, hey, I know I'm fifty, So I guess it's okay. 00:08:56 Speaker 1: At this point, you're fifty. 00:08:57 Speaker 10: You lookzy. 00:08:59 Speaker 4: I'm fifty years old. 00:09:01 Speaker 10: I'm taking a picture. No, what he's cut? He got cuts? Ladies? 00:09:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you look great at your age. Bro. 00:09:08 Speaker 4: What thanks? Little cuts like. 00:09:10 Speaker 10: In your in your chest and your stomach and in your arms. 00:09:12 Speaker 4: Now that I was looking, I'm fasting, which is part of it, intimated fasting. I would advised guys tell you about an hour window. 00:09:22 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:09:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good thing. 00:09:23 Speaker 10: That's what that's called. The is doing. Okay, so you eat within that eight hour one? 00:09:27 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's terry crews. 00:09:30 Speaker 1: Terry crew. What's this called? It's in a minute fast? 00:09:33 Speaker 9: Basically you eat what you want in quotation marks, I mean because you still just can't beating function. But basically you push all your meals to an eight hour window, so then the rest of the sixteen hours in the day you're fasting. So say, if you get up around like like normally, I get up around like eleven, I hit the gym at twelve, come on, shot whatever, and then I have my first meal of the day around like two, So then my eating is from two to ten and and then you know, you sleep. 00:10:02 Speaker 4: You know, detox spis the liver with the kidneys. If your guy booshed the testosterone up to weigh over one hundred percent, so you keep your rocket. 00:10:13 Speaker 5: Ten minutes into the show, we didn't talk about one break beat. I'm sorry, that's amazing. 00:10:18 Speaker 4: I have to say on a very very serious note, is I had a sister she just passed about. 00:10:24 Speaker 1: Two weeks ago, maybe two weeks ago. 00:10:26 Speaker 4: So cancer and a whole lot of diabetes and everything is prevalent in my family. So which made me a little more I guess health conscious as far as like you know, with heat with not teat doesn't mean I'm gonna live forever, but it does kind of play in mind. When there's certain things you can control, you know what I'm saying. You can control what you eat, control your exercise, control your stress. But you know, which genetic you can't control, so I try to hone in what I can control. 00:10:55 Speaker 5: Does that concern you that a lot of our you know, forget you know, the whole mentality of escaping bullets of the days. 00:11:06 Speaker 4: Of Latin Quarter or whatever it was. Yeah, Imber, those days was in the middle of that. 00:11:10 Speaker 5: Does it Is it on your mind that a lot of your contemporaries cannot really get past the age of fifty five? 00:11:18 Speaker 4: Just escaping fifty five? Well, I'm being generous fifty So yeah, I think I think about my mortality daily. And I hate to say that, but you know, I don't obsess over it, but I do think about it because man, you know, like I said that, my sisters passed a couple of weeks ago, and that's tough, but I only have one sibling left. Like, just think from the time that I was born, there's only one person that I can think of that was around since I was a baby. In my family. Nobody else exists, you know what I'm saying. So it's it's it's serious, you know. So I mean when I think of my yeah, like you know, poetic and I can keep going on and on and you know friends who passed and yeah, it's it's it's scary, you know, it's really really scary. 00:11:59 Speaker 5: Well, the thing it's also you know, hip hop culture celebrates, uh this this victory mark of like, you know, we made it, let's celebrate, you know. And if you think about it, like I mean, I've I've been to many a backstage ritual because she knows what what I mean my backstage ritual. You know where a bottle patron could be down by one person. 00:12:29 Speaker 4: Beautiful, which isn't what I'm saying that. 00:12:32 Speaker 5: That's not natural, you know what a certain age, Yeah, that's not natural to you know, consumed. 00:12:38 Speaker 1: I like to do over excessive party and the celebrate, which hip hop is known for. And it's like eventually, I guess it's going to catch up to you at a certain age. 00:12:48 Speaker 7: But see, this is interesting because hip hop is so young that this conversation within itself is like a nuance. But it could become a trend because you guys are agent with hip. 00:12:57 Speaker 4: Hop, you know, but the kids, now it's a difference. I mean when you look at our age bracket, it's like, you know, dudes drink, they smoke, they might you know, depend on whatever you and you might sniff or whatever the case is. Now kids are just dropping random pills and stuff that's in alt like chemically everything in your body, and you. 00:13:14 Speaker 9: Don't know what the effects that that's gonna be at, Like, you don't know like all these cats doing all this shit now, like what are they gonna look like? 00:13:19 Speaker 4: At thirty four? It was like cracking the eighties. I remember, you know kids who smoked weed and you know, mescaline and drop tabs whatever. Yeah, crack was smoking crack, but they didn't know the long term effects. But a year later you see cats just like Jack freak out. Yeah. And then so now you look back on and he's like smoke crack, you bake it, you know, so yeah saying you're right, same thing with the kids. Now, you don't know what's gonna happen. 00:13:38 Speaker 1: You know, where were you born? 00:13:40 Speaker 4: I was born in Queens Flesh, not Long Island, not Long Island, so I moved out. 00:13:45 Speaker 5: When has anyone in hip hop purely been born in Long Island or like, do families just migrate to Long Island because that's like the safe place and you. 00:13:54 Speaker 4: Won't Now that's moving up, you know, when you when you lived in Brooklyn, Queens. Whatever the case is, you move to Long Island's suburbs. Is the country at least back in those days. You know, it's like, you know, you lived in in a confined area, the projects you lived where ever, you know, like my grandma she lived in uh that's how I Mettend and Glenmore Plaza in Brownsville. 00:14:14 Speaker 1: And yeah, it was rough. 00:14:17 Speaker 4: It was rough. It was rough, but like this, it was so rough. I remember back when I had to go to Daddy O's house in order to collect money. I had to dress like a crackhead to get in and out. I used to wear a leather cap. I gotta disguise yourself as a zombie. He lived in the New Lots Plaza, and I was like, man, I got to pick up some money. How did I do this? I really thought about. I was like, yo, I used to dress. I had leather this one leather baseball caps was out, but it was kind of. 00:14:49 Speaker 1: Old, skinny ones like Eddie Murphy. It was regular baseball want some wrinkled up clothes. 00:14:56 Speaker 4: And I would just walk into his plaza talking to myself, Man, I was skinny anyway, so come out with like I don't know, flowering at dollars that. Oh this was like eighty four, eighty five really yeah, eighty six. 00:15:09 Speaker 10: Yeah right, it's kind of brilliant. Did you share that method with others? 00:15:14 Speaker 4: Man? You know, but it worked. I see nothing, you know, I see no other dudes get robbed. 00:15:22 Speaker 1: People wouldn't know. 00:15:24 Speaker 4: You know, chain's going, things going. 00:15:27 Speaker 1: See that's the thing. 00:15:29 Speaker 5: Everyone has all these glorious stories of like back of that era, and I'm like, yo, you weren't cautious, like rolling by itself crazy. 00:15:38 Speaker 4: That's what New York was beautiful though. I mean the crime kind of gave it a vibe in the cultures. So you have fond memories of those of. 00:15:46 Speaker 1: Back in the day. 00:15:47 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean, like I said, it was crime and yo, and I got robbed Like I was a in a thing while doing a show with stets of Sonic and these dudes came in and they just it was just taking people's stuff. There's like just bum rush the whole thing. It was all this craziness and not get this was I don't want to say during the show, but it was kind of in between shows. 00:16:11 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think the Fat Boys might have performing at night. It was. 00:16:14 Speaker 4: It was that era. 00:16:15 Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, I'll be goddamn if I get robbed, yo, but yeah, you. 00:16:25 Speaker 4: Know, but it was just everything getting turned over. People screaming and dudes had guns. And here I am trying to leave the spot with my homeboy because he drove me out, and you know, the dude's long story. They were coming to get out the club. I had to go upstairs and they were coming downstairs simultaneously. They said something to my boy and I was like, man, you don't know him, We're we don't. Oh, oh you're talking now. I was like, oh, I'm all of one hundred and twenty pounds at the time. 00:16:53 Speaker 1: Next thing I know, they took my little velcraw wallet that. 00:16:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I had. 00:17:01 Speaker 1: I had to admit I had a fake chain. It was like a little thick chain. 00:17:04 Speaker 4: And had a pe remember like the initials with had the box Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. They took that off my deck and that's all I got. Yeah one time, But you know what, it made me cautious and the man I have today, and it made me even more hip hop. You know what I'm saying, he can't be hip hop? Get robbed. 00:17:27 Speaker 1: Oh damn. 00:17:28 Speaker 9: Now I'm thinking now if you I think you everyone been robbed by a record companies. 00:17:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was about to say that I've got robbed. So you said you were. 00:17:40 Speaker 5: DJing at the age of ten for a long time. You come from a music family or. 00:17:45 Speaker 4: Like, uh no, I mean, you know, aside from the old school. My dad collected jazz records. My mom, you know, collected records. My siblings are ten years and plus older than me or where I should say. So, you know, they were teenagers, so. 00:18:01 Speaker 1: How many all together? 00:18:03 Speaker 4: Was four? Now it's just me and my brother, okay, And so yeah, I mean, I you know, being a kid, you want to be like them, and so they collect the records. So while they were my friends were into toys, I was into buying records. And I still have the I have the first forty five I bought. Two I bought was Groove Me King Floyd and hot Pants, and I still have it. I was five years old, bought it from Maid's department store in Long Island. 00:18:25 Speaker 1: How much did it costs back then? Forty fives were how much? 00:18:28 Speaker 4: I think that for like less than a dollar each? You know, did you mark your name on your records like everyone oh yeah, yeah, I still got them. Yeah yeah, yeah, they're still mark it and and the breakbeats. When you get in the eighties all washed out, yeah I still got it, stuck. 00:18:42 Speaker 1: Onto albums right the forty five Okay, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, still got them all hissed out. 00:18:48 Speaker 5: Right the same. Yeah, I love it. It's funny now because now I'm looking for that sound and that sort of texture and wax, and you can't find it where all your the beginnings of your records just having a horrible Really you're looking for that. 00:19:09 Speaker 11: Well, I'm trying to know, man, we could swap out with some fresh no, no, no, no, I mean it's just it's weird, like hearing say, like the chant breakbeat clean clean, it's no well and piece the President clean, and I know where the stems are, Like, it just don't sound the same without Yeah, a little static at the beginning, and it's. 00:19:34 Speaker 4: Hard the conversation. Yeah, you're right, we're just getting started. You're right about this. So where was your first DJ gig? If you were like, who would let you on the turntables at ten? 00:19:44 Speaker 1: Well, what happened, Well, what happened was like all black folks say no. 00:19:48 Speaker 4: But what happened was I pieced together a DJ set. I had a Lafayette. It was a Lafayette like plastic little turntable at my mom's component set, which was had a turntable attached to it. But the turntable didn't work. So I figured out a way to take one of another cheap turntable we had around the house, and I put my turntable left her turntable right, and used the balance button as a mixer as a to blend the two together. And then I put it in mono so it came out one speaker, so I couldn't que it, but I was able to go back and forth and after a while at balance, now I've got you know good. I was like because it wasn't really scratching. 00:20:32 Speaker 1: It was just like bent bent bent b really yeah, it was you know, like what year period was, This is. 00:20:40 Speaker 4: Like seventy seven, seventy seventy seven, even. 00:20:42 Speaker 1: Before like DJ culture was known to me. 00:20:46 Speaker 4: Yeah, this was like because you know, going like said, my grandmother lived in Brooklyn, Long Island had DJs, But it was like you know, you're thinking of like it was like in the early days of like more disco, you know, and if breaks were played, it was disco breaks. And if any break existed back then, it was probably like Seron Looked for Love. That might have been seventy eight, but it was just disco breaks. Yeah, you had to get down and on stone. Yeah yeah, yeah. 00:21:14 Speaker 1: So who were your gods and queens that you look to that. 00:21:20 Speaker 4: P DJ Jones It was probably like you know when you think of like, oh, you know, because it was more systems back then. 00:21:27 Speaker 5: Then get the respect that you know, the gods of the Bronx get because I hear even Tip speaks like DJ Jones was before all those guys. 00:21:36 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you know, it depends on where you're from. You know, I think has a lot to do with it. You know, Tips from Queens. You know, I'm Long Island kind of Queens Brooklyn type thing. So yeah, I mean that was who we looked up to. And like I said, back then, it was more power than it was skilled. Had none of the skill was like, but it was power and records. So if you could blow somebody out and the speakers and you had records, oh what without a doubt with base bottoms and random stacked up amps. So how did you build How would you build your system? 00:22:08 Speaker 1: Oh, I just didn't. I did the opposite. I had to work on skill. 00:22:13 Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, it's still records equipment and didn't have the equipment and begged for people to get on. And so probably one of the first gigs I got on with a lot of people. I was probably in the seventh grade, and that was a friend of mine named Paul Carrey. They had a group called the Young Blood Crew, and that was in Long Island and I got on and I remember I was cutting what record was out? Was it seventh grade, eighth grade? It might have been Midnight Plane or Trouble Funk, I don't remember. I don't remember what it was. But yeah, it's a lot of people. I was nervous, but I thought I was nice. 00:22:47 Speaker 1: Were you throwing on once you got on real turntables? Of course? 00:22:50 Speaker 4: Yeah, when you get on real stuff, it's like whoa, It's like it's like driving a probably I would guess with a you go to a to a maserati, you know what, Like yeah, you know you're not like fighting fighting a steering you know, saying the breaks, you don't have to step one extra hard. Everything's like, because back then I was my friends had the eighteen hundreds, and I think before then it was the eleven hundred. A's the big doofy looking ones, right, yeah, but it was from that to the eighteen hundreds, and then all I could afford. Once I started getting turntables, I had a BSR and then eventually graduated to a B man, not one O one. I can't remember it was a B one, but it was the one with the strobe light that was on this the right hand side and the lower part. I think DST had the same ones. I'm nerding out right now. 00:23:40 Speaker 5: You no, no, no, no, no making me nerd out? 00:23:45 Speaker 1: Tell me more, yeah, djorn, I think I think it was a B ten. 00:23:50 Speaker 4: I think the turntables I can't remember exactly, but those were my first real like techniques. 00:23:55 Speaker 1: Now, were these teased? 00:23:56 Speaker 4: You know? 00:23:57 Speaker 5: Were these acquired? YEA blackout of seventy seven? 00:24:03 Speaker 1: You know? 00:24:03 Speaker 4: Did you have rich grandparents? I remember the black out of seventy seven because I was leaving Brooklyn and I've seeing the lightning bolt. The lightning came down and then everything blacked out and we was actually my grandmother's house in Brooklyn. So I wasn't there for all the festivities because I was going back to Long Island. But I got these things by and it's gonna sound cheesy to like a lot of kids nowadays, but you know I was taking apart bikes, putting them together and selling them, painting them, you know, shwins, you know. So that that was my thing. I was just everything was swapped back then you traded. You traded, trade until you trade it up, and you prayed for a decent birthday or Christmas or you know, And that's how I kind of it was piece by piece by piece by piece by piece by piece. Well that's hustling, yeah, yeah, and honest, yeah, I can't say that. You know, I was hugging. I was hugging the block, you. 00:24:53 Speaker 1: Know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I can't. I can't say that. I wish I could have that story. Then yeah, man came up what I'm saying. I had to leave it alone. Who's your first crew, my friend? 00:25:10 Speaker 4: I mean, when you had your first My first crew was in the I still got the shirt too. My first crew was in the sixth grade and it was my friend Charles and Mitchell Robinson who lived next door and I remember there was like, Yo, we're gonna make a crew and you're gonna be the DJ, and I'm like really And our crew was the ever Ready Crew. Yo. I still got the shirt is mad young and on the friend has a Yamaha motorcycle like dcal Yeah, because ironed the letters on the back, man, Yo, I got that jo. I need to post it. Once I got to stop being anti social media started posting stuff. 00:25:49 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah that was my first crew. 00:25:50 Speaker 4: And yeah, I remember we tried to make tapes and stuff for people and they were saying, this is horrible. 00:26:00 Speaker 1: Do you know you still those things? 00:26:01 Speaker 11: Yeah? 00:26:02 Speaker 4: I have an early pause tape from probably about seventy eight that I still have. I played not too long ago. I was clean out my house and I found nice Okay, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's horrible, but it was good back then. 00:26:13 Speaker 5: Back then, were you running with any of the contemporaries that you would later make music with decades later, Like you know, was was Daddy O coming up in the scenario during this period or well? 00:26:26 Speaker 4: I didn't meet Daddy until I joint Stetton probably like eighty three eighty four, But in Long Island, I knew Biz because Bis used to come up to my school. So we he's come out the house. We used to make tapes. So those tapes like which I had that was around when I was in eighth grade. He would so there's tapes of you and Buz marking making. There has to be somewhere there was cassettes. He's come over the house. He was polls cassette like all right, you know, he'd you know, meet me up at the high school and ambul High School and we you know. 00:26:54 Speaker 1: Y'all went to school together. 00:26:55 Speaker 4: He no, yeah, I don't man. Biz lived way out like in Quorum or something weird part of Long Island, and he would I don't know how he would magically end up in Amneville High School or there are there abouts and Wine Dance, which everybody know rock Him's from and and you know Chili Dog and all those guys, and so he would just end up at the schools and you're like, here's gonna make a tape, you know, and and y know to this day he'll tell you, man, I remember he came by my house. And this was the last time we made it, or supposedly made a tape. Was He's like yo, I was busy at the times, Like, yo, can I borre your records? I was like, what do you need? 00:27:29 Speaker 1: Give me Rocket in the Pocket God made me funky. It was some other record and he never brought it back. 00:27:36 Speaker 4: Oh really, Biz Marky and he took it to my man Divine's house. No, no, yeah, it's kidnamed DJ Divine and he uh yeah, and bis will Brandupton's day. He's like, yo, I know I got your records. I owe your Rocket the Pocket made me funky, and I can't remember that. 00:27:57 Speaker 5: He'll probably tell you the other records and these are the originales, not like the the the guy. 00:28:04 Speaker 4: Made me funky was original? No, they all were original, Yeah, because the Rock in the Pocket was the Atlantic, right yeah yeah yeah man, I'm really getting upset. Let's get him. Regulars are worth money, man, what yo? 00:28:17 Speaker 7: Did you and Biz ever battle? Like like what we say Jonan and DC. But we know like Biz is like the king of the equips and going in and whatnot. 00:28:24 Speaker 1: Oh it's snapping up. Yeah, he was less snappy back then. 00:28:28 Speaker 4: You know you know what I remember, You know, I give a lot of credit to bisin and and I'll say this, and I told him. I'm very proud of him, and as we got older, it is because he was getting teased a lot, you know what I'm saying, Like he would come to the school. 00:28:42 Speaker 1: You know, I'm he was always a character. 00:28:44 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he was always Yeah, he didn't want to be. I mean as legend would have it. And people tell you Biz could tell you some good stories. What that has not changed? You know what I'm saying that his that's from from childhood. But you know a lot of that. Like I said, you know, kids would teasing, well, you suck this, you ain't that? And so when he made the vapors all that it to me, it was like, Okay, that was his moment. Yeah, that that was it. It's like he did it like he he traveled outside of Long Island into like the Bronx, and he would come back with a he had a notepad of records. Yo, you got this record he had all written down. I guess like things he was flying out from other DJs. 00:29:31 Speaker 5: It never changes, it ship never changes with Biz. Right, He's still the same person. I got it still you do you do you believe his Mardy Gross story? 00:29:44 Speaker 4: What the what the Mary was it? 00:29:46 Speaker 1: The forty five without the bells on, without the bells on it. 00:29:50 Speaker 4: You know what's so weird? We just want to believe it. He mixes up with you know, falsity, he's with the reality. So it's it's so hard to kind of like it reminds me of an offense to what was that show that was on Netflix? Oh, get down to get down, like it was some random like magical crap with real stuff. Right, That's that's bit, you know what I'm saying, Like, he's that dude you gonna so you mix it up together and you don't know what it is. And then he will bring that record that Mighty Gras with no Belsie, like, oh my god, I thought he was sorry telling But then he'll live out something else that's just so far that you might think it's true, but it's love. 00:30:37 Speaker 10: And then he get loud about it, like what you're saying, son is true. 00:30:40 Speaker 4: Somebody you ask ask quest love, ask him, Yes, you'll get him on. Call him right now, tell him, tell him what I got. Yes, you are nailing it on. I've noticed since I was what freaking fourteen, you know, I wanted to call him. Bus Ones came in to me once. Now I think of anything I've collected. 00:31:04 Speaker 1: I know soulitering the best, so you can't get me on no sultrying trivia whatsoever. And business is trying to convince me. Quest I got an episode of James Brown doing Funky President with the drum break extended in the beginning for like a minute before. 00:31:24 Speaker 4: He says funk. 00:31:27 Speaker 5: I got that question, and at some point you're just like, all right, okay, I believe quest I got that. 00:31:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that sounds about him speaking of soul training that that means you have the episode with Captain Sky on it. 00:31:42 Speaker 1: Yes I do. I remember I seen that one time when it came on. 00:31:47 Speaker 5: Yes I have, which is weird because he wasn't even introduced at the top of the show, so you wouldn't know that Captain Sky was on Soul Training. Who was Captain Scott super sperb oh supersperb oh okay god, but. 00:31:58 Speaker 4: He wasn't saying super sper no, hell no. 00:32:03 Speaker 1: Get away with that. Like part of me was like, it's so blatantly out there. Maybe like they spelled it sporm right, yeah, I thought some like uh, some spacey references, yo, Like that was a great. 00:32:24 Speaker 10: Thank you sir, I got you. I got you like that was great way for my sound face. 00:32:28 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well I'm sorry I had to sound effect. I let that blanqu up. 00:32:32 Speaker 4: Okay. 00:32:33 Speaker 1: Anyway, so. 00:32:37 Speaker 4: You said Sets the Sonic started. 00:32:38 Speaker 1: In eighty four. 00:32:39 Speaker 4: Well, I joined them around eighty probably end eighty three, eighty four, because I think I was in the I was in eleventh grade, I think, yeah, started eleventh grade. 00:32:49 Speaker 1: Somewhere in eleventh grade, so that was probably around eighty four, so they were already established. 00:32:54 Speaker 4: Yeah. When I met them. In the group was a guy named I think it's Grand Supreme Delight Daddy O and Wise had just joined the group a week before and they just had battled or some contests and the Mister Magic Rap Attack thing in Cony Island and they had won. And part of the deal, I think the prize was a record deal with sugar Hill. Oh my god, whoa and and you know apparently that didn't that didn't materialize out I'm like, damn, yeah, that was nothing part of part of the deal. And I met I met them, like I said, a week after that happened, and then became their DJ, which was which was amazing. 00:33:37 Speaker 5: Okay, So for those that are kind of underage that are listening to the show. It should be noted. 00:33:46 Speaker 10: I don't know what you meant when you said under age, because you're up there with us. 00:33:51 Speaker 4: I know you're not U. 00:33:55 Speaker 5: Yeah, you just put it back down in her twenties. Anyway, for those that are listening, it's me noted that uh Paul was a member of Statsu Sonic, the very first noted hip hop band. 00:34:07 Speaker 1: Here's the thing though, now I first heard of you guys. 00:34:13 Speaker 5: Via Philly, where there was no Latin Quarter experience or anything of that nature, and Spin magazine, so I'm reading that you guys were banned. It's weird though, because even now, besides maybe the video for Nobs Allowed, that's the only visual I have of you guys being a band. Like it's did you guys not invest in camera equipment back in the day, like with your advanced Like I can't find one that's of Sonic performance on but everyone like Chuck d will swear to God that you had to have been there to see it. 00:34:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was certain, you know, Like, are there no performances on tape that you own? Or yeah, I don't have any because I remember the tour. Probably what Chuck d is talking about because I know when it was at the quarters, there weren't it wasn't set up for us to you know, have a drum kit and have you know, certain things. So it's usually like two turntables. But when we were on man was it the Deaf Jam Tour. I can't remember what tour, but at some point we were starting to travel like with the drum kit, DBC on the keys and me on the turntable. Wise on the human beat box. But you know, back then, especially being in an open and act, nobody wanted to like cater to having a band, you know what I'm saying. So so so you have a drum tech and no man, it was like, oh you got drums all because they used to just meant miney. Back then, DJs brought their own turntables. You brought there was no backline you know what brought everything. So it's like to bring it in and to have it set up and then go from place the place to place to place. They were like, this is this is not practical for us and you guys are only an opening band, you know group, So so we always had to kind of cut down. But in cases where we're able to have our whole setup. That's why you probably see anything. It was limited in that case because it was usually opening act. I remember on the Death Jamp tour was us in public Enemy opening up, you know, and we shared a bus together. That shows how how. 00:36:26 Speaker 1: You know it's a lot of. 00:36:30 Speaker 4: Hold twelve Ye look man, it was public adity and and stetisnic. I mean that's how much you know we were, you know, Katie are the small guys of course, you know you got lud Jadjy, Jeff Fresh Prince, you know ver b rock Hill. Yeah, you know in the case you run DMC, but you know productions would come in and yeah, it's like, oh man, it got the nice stuff. Like I said, it's between the Yougo and the Masa Rot. You know, it's amazing what a couple of hit records will do. It definitely put you up the ladder the food chain slightly. So how do you how do you feel? The one thing that we've learned on the show is that this drum roll. 00:37:19 Speaker 1: Meant hydro chain. What oh man? 00:37:23 Speaker 5: That was like the according to everyone that's been on the show that was old enough to be at the Latin Quarter. 00:37:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, that this was the national anthem for. 00:37:34 Speaker 4: The said it was three records this one and like yeah, yeah, we get we get real violent in the Latin quarters. 00:37:43 Speaker 1: It's like, but I mean for that for ghost stats and who produced that? 00:37:49 Speaker 4: Actually it's well, it's going to be disputed. DBC came up with the concept. He had rank rank rank, you know, using open the tome zones, right, and then Daddy Oh came up with the idea of putting the live drums behind it. So it was a collaboration of those two gentlemen. Who is whose Go Brooklyn? Is that? 00:38:10 Speaker 5: Which is weird because it's like it's that's probably the most iconic part of that, I mean of the song. 00:38:18 Speaker 1: I mean besides the lyrics. 00:38:19 Speaker 8: And you know. 00:38:21 Speaker 4: Drums, yes, oh that's all of us. That's you know, so my voice isn't a lot of those random hip hop records somewhere buried underneath Go Brooklyn Brooklyn. So how do you edge your ideas? And you're. 00:38:37 Speaker 1: Like, are you giving a say? 00:38:38 Speaker 5: Or it's like six of you and I can imagine all right, you remember if you remember Torri's Brooklyn Prince when he spoke of okay, So Tory wrote a book on Prince. Yeah, I'm no, no, But I mean the one thing that you could really learn from that book was was how the generations work. And when Prince is opening for the Rolling Stones, he gets booed mercilessly because Prince a baby boomer born in nineteen fifty eight. Baby boomer is of course between like thirty eight to fifty eight sixty one give or take. 00:39:17 Speaker 4: That. Prince can't transuh. 00:39:22 Speaker 5: Translate his vision to baby boomers, but who have a better time doing it to generation next sixty one to eighty two. 00:39:30 Speaker 4: So I almost feel like in stets of Sonic, were you even? Because even. 00:39:37 Speaker 5: On Blood the album Yeah Bus but No Tears, there was a cut on side to h are you coming? 00:39:47 Speaker 1: Yeah Yeah yeah, which was like would have been perfect on a Dailight soul record, kind of out of place on a stets of Sonic record. It's almost like your solo. 00:39:58 Speaker 4: Joint because you know, I made it in the student because we had extra time and I was being funny and they're like, yeah, just put on the record, Like are you sure all right? I'll do it? You know why not? Yeah? You know, no, the song is done and Paul's a sucker, and you know, there's a few other songs, right. 00:40:14 Speaker 5: And well, I'm saying that by that point, did you have more leverage, because it's like, well, Prince Paul, you know my producer, and. 00:40:21 Speaker 4: I think part of it a little bit is leverage, and not like it was onaned. Like I like my position and sets the sonic of being the DJ and producing some songs, and I like the idea of collaboration. 00:40:33 Speaker 1: When it's collaboration, you know what I'm saying, as opposed to kind of like. 00:40:39 Speaker 4: We're gonna take off some scratches and I'm gonna put this and you know that where it gets a little touchy, you know, but when we're all working together collectively as one mind and kind of making something. Those are the first two records, you know what I'm saying. Clearly, it's just started getting weird as the third record came around. And you know what's weird is like we never broke up, Like we just never we just stopped talking to each other, so it was never official breakup. It was just like, I mean, all the way from the eighties to now, with the exception maybe frou Kuan leaving the group, like we've never broke up, you know, it's just it's a question you just kind of just and they're still together. Yeah, yeah, we just kind of just drifted away. Yeah, then that's what it's been. But but the the just to answer that, how to get my say was Dayla soul. You know what I'm saying Like that was my ability to kind of really kind of do what I wanted to do, which was nice. It was nice. 00:41:38 Speaker 9: Daylight was the three feet High was eighty nine, right, And then I'm trying to just put together the time of that sonic when was I think eighty eighty right, okay? 00:41:50 Speaker 1: And the on Fire was eighty six eighty six? Yeah, So I want to take a guess, because it's really not listed on the album. Did you produce TV see let the music play? 00:42:01 Speaker 7: No? 00:42:02 Speaker 4: No, DBC did that. 00:42:06 Speaker 1: Damn. 00:42:06 Speaker 5: Of course I wouldn't even figure that his own namesake would were producing. 00:42:13 Speaker 1: Did you do music for the step wee insane? Of course? 00:42:16 Speaker 4: You know what makes me mad as ship? Now this is gonna punch me. 00:42:21 Speaker 5: No, no, no no, this this goes out to Armine who owns all the Westbound stuff? Lady, Yeah, yeah, when the Atmosphere's sample from Funkadelic. 00:42:36 Speaker 4: Bernie Warrel can't beat him. 00:42:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, but now in the in the new. 00:42:42 Speaker 5: Like if you buy the reissued CD or you listen on on streaming, the first twenty seconds of that song is just cut off abruptly. 00:42:53 Speaker 4: Why did he do that? 00:42:54 Speaker 5: It basically starts off good evening and I'm like, where's the Yeah, that's the beauty of it. 00:42:59 Speaker 1: It's like nowhere to be found. Also, speaking of which, on three ft High and Rising, uh, what's more, starts off with pluck two. It doesn't start off with mercy, like, it doesn't start. 00:43:14 Speaker 5: Off there's three seconds clipped off of it. 00:43:19 Speaker 1: And also on Brain Wants to Be a Follower, it just starts with. 00:43:27 Speaker 5: Like yeah, it's just like you know, it's like the first five seconds of the song is just cut off and it just starts that way. 00:43:36 Speaker 4: Whoever was making the IDs didn't know what they were doing. 00:43:40 Speaker 1: Or I'm just thinking that the tape was damaged or something. 00:43:42 Speaker 4: But even for what's more that they don't need to cut that off. 00:43:46 Speaker 1: I don't think they cut it off on purpose, Like obviously maybe somebody was paying attention exactly, so just make sure that you know, but you did music with the stepinitely insane, Yeah, Okay, did you do pen and paper? 00:44:03 Speaker 4: Yeah, I knew it. 00:44:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was I had the sequential Tom drum machines. I still have. 00:44:07 Speaker 4: I love that drum machine. 00:44:09 Speaker 1: So how were you with operating that equipment? Like are you. 00:44:15 Speaker 5: Was it just a learning process or I'm trying to find one person from that period that like actually read the man you want to know how to make drum beats? 00:44:23 Speaker 4: And oh no, you didn't read anything. I mean, I mean, I mean for me, if you're thinking of the process was as soon as grand Master Flash had a beat box on Flash into the beat he said, oh my god, what is that? 00:44:36 Speaker 1: I gotta get one of those. And you can never get that one. So you got a rhythm machine. 00:44:41 Speaker 4: Then from a rhythm machine, so you find something else programmable, and you know, went on and on, and that was for me. You know, it's like my friend was selling a sequential Tom, which I couldn't afford a DX at the time or DMX at the time. 00:44:53 Speaker 1: I got that. 00:44:54 Speaker 4: It had to reverse button converse the drums, and you know, that was it. That's how I learned how to program. You know how drummers are, especially back then, it's like a car. I hate compare to the car. But you know, your lights are on one side in a car, but it's on a dash and another car. But it's the same function but in different places. So drum machines are technically all the same, but just different buttons and different locales. You know. So once you figured out one, you kind of figured out the other thing. And you might have to look at the mandal for one thing. Like there's no going to the YouTube, you know, just see the tutorial, you know, you had to, Like, man, somebody didn't know. You looked it up, you know, and you read it. 00:45:29 Speaker 5: Besides uh, well, speaking of equipment, besides uh, strictly, Dan ducky, did you ever use that Cassio SK one for anything? 00:45:39 Speaker 1: You used the school board crush? Oh we did? 00:45:42 Speaker 4: That was SK five, That was I think that was the upgraded versus. Yeah, I think Dave had that. That was that was I think that was Dave's keyboard. Yea, So did you. 00:45:49 Speaker 1: Guys use that for anything else? 00:45:51 Speaker 5: On because even on the MTV clip and I can see that SK five there, I was like, oh shit, they would us. 00:45:58 Speaker 4: That's like some shit I had. Yeah, I love that thing until it broke. Yeah, I still have it, man, but it doesn't work. Yeah, I think, I don't know. 00:46:10 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:46:10 Speaker 4: I think once we got into the regular studio, you know, we kind of put that aside, you know, because then you're able to loop with MIDI, so that that kind of changed things. And and Simpty, which helped a whole lot. 00:46:27 Speaker 1: So let's go to Dayla. 00:46:30 Speaker 5: What was it about them that attracted you that you knew or did you know like, Okay, this is gonna be the next generation. 00:46:39 Speaker 4: Because I think we both thought out of the box. I think for me in Steti Sonic, which man, it is a blessing. It was my start and I learned everything from you know, I learned a lot from Daddy. Oh I won't lie about that, Like he's taught me a lot and. 00:46:52 Speaker 1: To have that. 00:46:53 Speaker 4: But I've always just made bizarre, quirky stuff. 00:46:56 Speaker 1: I remember p Fine I had his radio show rap this. 00:47:01 Speaker 4: I did this spoof one. It was during such a sonic time. 00:47:06 Speaker 7: It was a. 00:47:07 Speaker 4: Parody of What's Colt forty five Billy d Williams then, and so that was me being silly but didn't fit within stet Go Brooklyn. So I was always there, you know what I'm say Stephanie and say it's always there, so with daylight. How the way they rhymed and there, I guess the way they heard music was the way I heard music, and the way I you know, thought of like, Okay, this is entertaining, this is fun, is the way they thought of it. And I think for me with them, even though it was in them, my job was to bring it more out and make them more comfortable and embracing that being different, you know, say, like they were all magnative, like let's do it, do it, So why didn't you just join the group? 00:47:53 Speaker 1: Because I still consider you, like when it's rock and roll Hall of Fame time, to me, you're billy pressed and of it and really even the moment that without you and your ideas and your input, those albums wouldn't be what they were. 00:48:09 Speaker 4: Thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I mean it's it's a definitely collaborative effort. I mean I didn't join. I don't know like they always you know, I remember in those days, I was like, well you always considered like a member, you like plug for blah blah blah, but my whole thing and this is gonna be weird was instead to sonic. I felt like I couldn't be me, and so I was probably just doing the polar opposite of with day Ala. I was like, I want you guys be you. I'm gonna teach how to work the equipment after the first record, you're gonna make the next record on your own. I'm gonna teach you as much as I know you're gonna be able to be as creatively free as you possibly be. And that was my intention, you know, And part of that is is just looking from the outside, and nor did I know this record would be that successful. I would tell them when we're making it, you know we're gonna go goal right, because that was always you know we're gonna go but just to make you really you didn't really believe it. I didn't know what would happen. I mean, I remember Dave's brother Mike would go, you know, when we was making three ft High Rising, I don't know who's gonna like this record. It's really really. 00:49:13 Speaker 1: Bizarre and different, and he's like, you know what I'm saying. 00:49:17 Speaker 9: How did y'all meet each other in West Philly? Was the label the label Hookiller or how did you guys meet. 00:49:24 Speaker 4: Meet me and me and me. That's fair. I love telling the story. Uh, Macio, he's working with this dude named Gangster B who lived around our way, and he was making a record for mister Collins. Ever Collins, who was uh, was playing drums for the Ossi Brothers at the time, and mister Collins was also a music teacher at the junior High school Ameville, and he started this record label and his first artist on his label was Gangster B. And so Macio was Gangster B's DJ. I was the guy in the neighbor who made a record because I was with sets of sonics. So they asked me to program beat. And the beat I programmed was I had to sequential tom. It was a reverse beat. It sounded too much like like oh. And I was like, we can't do this. It's like do it. We can't. And that was the debate, and Masie could see me getting frustrated. He's like, yo, I have a group, and I think, you know, if whatever you want to do, we'll work with you. I was like, okay, good. He's like, I'll bring the tape by later in the day. It was a bad dad the next day and he brought by a real rough of Pluck Tunic, and my mind was blown. 00:50:26 Speaker 1: I was like, that was pre made. 00:50:28 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:50:29 Speaker 1: I was like, were you guys old enough or not that your children? 00:50:32 Speaker 5: Were you old enough to remember the name that sample contest that Tommy Boy had with pluck Tuning? 00:50:38 Speaker 1: No, Yeah, Like I don't need. 00:50:40 Speaker 5: It's weird because they had a lot of Internet ideas, the viral ideas that were out before the Internet. But there would be like random stickers and the ads in occasional ride on sometimes in Billboard like name that sample, Like I think we were trying to. 00:51:01 Speaker 10: You gotta mail that in. 00:51:02 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:51:03 Speaker 1: It was like during the days of that death all right, raising who called that? I wanted to I was afraid of my father. Yeah, But I think the gem of it was that. 00:51:23 Speaker 5: I think they were trying to just pimp the fact that use the Liberachi sample in the beginning, because I'm thinking about the Midnight the Midnight Loop and the uh, what's the sample? 00:51:41 Speaker 4: I can't call I. 00:51:42 Speaker 1: Won't say. 00:51:45 Speaker 4: Your quest love you know everything. 00:51:47 Speaker 1: Music, it's brainfort time anyway. 00:51:53 Speaker 5: Yeah, but I thought that's what they were trying to allude to, and I was like, Liberachi. But then I realized at the beginning of the album version and now I want to reach back and man and all the world of music, like the intro right right right, which I thought in their way, like are they just trying to tell like white people like this group is real deep because there's a Liberaci. 00:52:15 Speaker 4: Let me take just quickly about that Liberachi sample. It was sequencing the record. I bet a place called Island Media and Long Island, and I was like, that's how I came up with the idea of putting the skits in between the songs. I was like, man, I got to figure out a way to link all these ideas and songs together. I think we made the skits and then they had a Liberachi cassette and I was like, can I see that? Can I play that? And I heard his voice like ooh, let's put that. 00:52:38 Speaker 1: In the beginning. It wasn't really that elaborative thought. 00:52:43 Speaker 4: It was just whatever. It's like, you know whatever. Those records were all m Guy Ford. It wasn't like it was like kind of sat there and we were just like, yeah, we're gonna pre plan a lot of this live was like, okay, what's around us, let's look at that. 00:52:56 Speaker 1: Let me not take for granted. 00:52:57 Speaker 5: Also again for our listeners that are getting familiar with Prince Paul, I'll say that probably the contribution that he is really noted for in the world of production is really turning your listening experience into. 00:53:18 Speaker 1: I won't even say a. 00:53:19 Speaker 5: Three dimensional I don't know how to explain it, Like it was movies without visuals, Like you introduced the idea of sketches and skits experience, and you somehow found adhesives to. 00:53:34 Speaker 1: Glue all those songs together. 00:53:36 Speaker 5: Not to mention besides, I mean, I know that Public Enemy was the first to do interludes and have more than the traditional ten songs on the record, but you guys were going overboard with like twenty three, twenty. 00:53:48 Speaker 4: Four, twenty five, So that was by design that idea. So it wasn't like you saw nation of millions like, oh, we can go past sixteen songs. You know what I did, It was this is the junior mar marketing brain of Paul at twenty or twenty one at the time. 00:54:04 Speaker 1: Was let's hear it. 00:54:04 Speaker 4: I was like, yo, you know what, everybody wants more bank for that buck. Even though these are little skits and all these other things. We're all label them as songs. So when you look on the back of that regular colic holy songs, I got that and that's the reason why I did just the bluck people out. 00:54:20 Speaker 5: And guess which dwead. This dwee right here was like, oh my god, five jams. And that's weird because even even you know, the first three four Roots records are like up in the nineteenes and twenties. I'm you know, Rich was like, you know, dog, we got twelve songs. 00:54:38 Speaker 1: We're done. I'm like, no, man, we gotta have inelus. 00:54:41 Speaker 4: Give them more money, you know, like make bank for the fuck. You look at it as a consumer, You're like, oh, this is all right, because records weren't cheat, you know what I'm saying. 00:54:50 Speaker 5: But the thing with the Daylight Records is that you really captured the teenage spirit of just I don't know what it was. It's like you want it to be there. It was almost like a documentary where like all those inside jokes that we didn't know, he has a bunch of them, and it became part of our slang we didn't know, and you gotta explain what Crocker means. 00:55:16 Speaker 4: But it's just how. 00:55:19 Speaker 5: How are you documenting this stuff because some of the stuff I can see like Okay, we're in the studio, okay, and press and then we start doing a skit, which is like, okay, well they're making a skit, but it sounds so natural of the moment, like shit like. 00:55:33 Speaker 4: Or even then oh yeah, yeah, boy, yeah, that's that's that's that. Yeah, that's all Dave Man skipped to loot. 00:55:42 Speaker 5: So you would just keep a cassette running and live MIC's were always in the studio and because some of that stuff just sounds like it was just of the moment and there's no way to recreate this stuff. 00:55:55 Speaker 4: And that's what it is. It's like I say, record everything, keep every thing, you know what I'm saying, even though tape was expensive at the time, but a lot of stuff was either after the song went off or before the song came on those moments. So for Daylight so was dead. 00:56:10 Speaker 5: Did you guys just have accessible h slick Rick, I can't be your lover like just on standby in case, like you know, even now I'll have like sound effects, yeah, like who had that stuff on standby. 00:56:30 Speaker 1: To just it was just you know, you ever have like within your group of friends a joke that just won't die, you know. Yeah, it's called quest Love Supreme. So I mean, that's all it is is just take it at you know, the one joke that won't die and just keeping it on deck, you know what I'm saying, Like eventually, some point you're gonna have to unplug the drum machine, like at the beginning of the day, are you like, Okay, let me cue up that slick rick and play some funny shit happens and keep the tape rolling. 00:56:58 Speaker 4: And no, that's was. Yeah, it's kind and honestly, I don't even I can't even tell you what the thought is behind. It's just being dumb, you know what I'm saying. It's not even like I can't even like sit and say, well I thought of it was just like look at this. Okay, Paul, that's enough. That's that's that's not funny. But listen, which I'm still like that to this very day, which I think eventually caused our demise and not working. That's to be honest, man, Like you know they grew up. I didn't. You know, I'm still the same twenty one year old kid, you know. 00:57:33 Speaker 1: But it's exactly it's the way it was. You know, I forgot to mention Bob Power. 00:57:39 Speaker 5: I can assume that working with him on the step record, Oh yeah, Bob, that you instantly brought him aboard to work with you on the daylight stuff. 00:57:49 Speaker 4: Where this is how it worked back in those days, was you go to the studio and oh, I'm doing your session today. Wow. 00:57:57 Speaker 1: And then eventually it would go someone that Tommy Boy like just. 00:58:01 Speaker 4: No, no, no, it's whoever, yeah, where was there at calliope, who's ever working at the time, would do whatever that session was. And then usually if it's an engineer who likes what you do, they'll they'll stick around. They'll go, oh, man, I like this, I want to come to the next one. You know, if my schedule permits, I'm gonna do your next session. 00:58:19 Speaker 5: So it was never you know, you were thinking like, Okay, this guy has such a forward thinking, sonic genius about him, and we must have him on this record for it. 00:58:28 Speaker 4: I mean, obviously there's engineers that some were better than others, but you know, when you're paying forty dollars an hour, he's just trying to get whoever could get the job done at the time. You know what I'm saying. I mean, you know, the brains of Bob Power is evident because you know you work with him, obviously, and I tried to learn as much as I could from him. I remember when I wasn't set to Sonic. He might not remember this, but I was taking audio engineering at the time, and and I would just sit there and just watch him, like closely. 00:58:58 Speaker 1: And he looked at me. 00:58:59 Speaker 4: He looked at said, you never learned anything by watching me. Very disheartening. So which made me, in a sense, go, I'll show you. Of course, I'm not never as nice as Bob Power, but it was incentive, you know what I'm saying. And yeah, he came aboard like a lot of the other projects, you know, along with my Manscottie Hart, and there's a few other people, okay, and Sue in the house. 00:59:25 Speaker 1: Sue Sue in the house right right right. Oh, she was an assistant engineer. 00:59:30 Speaker 4: She she was like, I don't know, it's like whoever was there. It's like I'm the engineer, Like, okay, you know, never had a female engineer before. But hey, man, you're you're on the payrolls. Get done. 00:59:41 Speaker 5: See an hour two princes working with two female engineers. See how in God's name did you record that record for under twenty five thousand dollars? 00:59:55 Speaker 1: Which one three feet high and rising? 00:59:57 Speaker 4: Oh, it's called taking that that that shift from twelve to four in the morning at the studio when the when it's thirty dollars an hour. 01:00:05 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It's called buying your own reel of reels, which when you buy. 01:00:09 Speaker 4: Studios like what one hundred and fifty bucks, you buy it at the at the tape spot for like one hundred bucks. Use sometimes you don't use ampegs, use ag for you know what I'm saying. 01:00:18 Speaker 1: You find ways to serious man, there's other. 01:00:22 Speaker 10: Real wait, real dummy question. 01:00:26 Speaker 7: When you get that you said twenty five thousand, right, yes, when you get that twenty five, that's your twenty five to make the album. It doesn't have to spread to anybody else as well. 01:00:34 Speaker 4: That's how we the entire budget. 01:00:35 Speaker 10: That that's us, That's what I'm trying to understand. 01:00:37 Speaker 1: It just being paid, that's us using studio. That's whatever's left. 01:00:41 Speaker 5: I'm sure this episode the question of Supreme course about twenty five thousands. 01:00:46 Speaker 10: I need a raise. But wait, so that means that like y'all had to eat off of that too as well. 01:00:51 Speaker 4: That's why you worked regularly jobs. You see how skinny is. Wait, do you have a regular job while you're doing this? Yeah? Yeah, I mean all through such a sonic. I was in college, I had a part time job. Yeah, I worked through everything. Man. You know it's because you know, I looked at it, at least me personally, like fat boys run DMC, like you know, this was ANLL. 01:01:15 Speaker 1: Those guys would make money. 01:01:17 Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. 01:01:17 Speaker 1: I'm just doing it as for fun as a hobby, you know what I'm saying. 01:01:20 Speaker 4: I love music. 01:01:20 Speaker 1: Whatever comes out comes out. 01:01:21 Speaker 4: But I'm gonna take civil services to become a postman at some point, you know what I'm saying, Like, that's the reality of it. So it just so happened that my passion and probably I'm thinking because I didn't take it as serious as a lot of my contemporaries is. I just had a lot of fun with it, which kept it open, helped me be more creative, because I think if I was thinking of marketing and like you're just gonna bump into clubs, You're just gonna do this, it would have really restricted what I did. 01:01:46 Speaker 1: But I was just like, whatever, I'm gonna have to work with regular job anyway. 01:01:49 Speaker 4: Record that whatever, Yeah, little Roch, just know that is you know what I'm saying. I gotta get up and go to work. See you think about the end of three f on rising that you'll just I'll get it jobs some wearing. I mean that's what I thought. I mean, you know, even when the record came out, Okay, it was starting to gain some traction and all of a sudden, Wow, it was just cool and it just got to a point where it wasn't until not that record, but other work started coming in from me when I was like, man, I can't go work at I was working at a place called General Accident, which was which insurance company. It was an insurance company, insurance company. It was an insurance company. I was I just got I just graduated college, and I was in between those things. I remember I had bosses tell me, you know, I got called into it all this one time. I was I was working at a place that we uh, I was doing soldering. I was doing electrical boards because I took electronics in school, and so he called me. 01:02:49 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I heard you doing this music thing. 01:02:52 Speaker 4: You have a choice. Paul could be here every day on time and be a part of our company and our growing family. 01:02:58 Speaker 1: We can follow this music dream that you're thinking about. 01:03:02 Speaker 2: We here a general accident. 01:03:05 Speaker 9: You know. 01:03:05 Speaker 4: This was before General Accident, and I was like, you know, I quit and I just kept it pushing, which was kind of rough because I need that money. It was a good job. I was paying like six dollars an hour. You know, it was good at the time. 01:03:17 Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy. 01:03:18 Speaker 10: What was the record that changed your thoughts? Your thoughts on that? 01:03:21 Speaker 4: Like, oh, oh oh, I skipped the story as soon as work started coming in after three feet High Rise, and was when I was like, yo, I'm gonna have to take a leap of absence for maybe like a year and kind of ride this thing and produce. 01:03:33 Speaker 1: See what happens. 01:03:33 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was Third Base and Big Daddy Kane and Queen Latifolds. Things started to really come in, and you know, and then Russell went become a manager and him and lyor so that that changed things. Like maybe two years, I'll go back and work. 01:03:46 Speaker 5: Oh Jesus Christ, I forgot about Resident Mother Dodo Man Records. I totally forgot. 01:03:58 Speaker 1: All right. 01:03:58 Speaker 5: So at the time when quote we hate the song end quote becomes like a force to reckon with. 01:04:09 Speaker 1: Are you guys just be honest? Man, weren't you? Were you guys happy? 01:04:17 Speaker 5: Because I know this, I know the perception, and sometimes when you know there's there's thoughts on on. 01:04:24 Speaker 4: Dave's whole whole uh jaded. I got love David. 01:04:34 Speaker 1: It's weird though, because for me, Dave, true boy, Dave was like, in my mind, he was the the utopian peace child, like he was the original. 01:04:46 Speaker 4: Qu first face. 01:04:50 Speaker 10: Perception. 01:04:52 Speaker 4: I know this now, but well, actually Mason Pie punched in the face and and then David. 01:04:59 Speaker 5: Well, it's just that based on seeing the album cover like this is for me who never knew who you guys were. I was working at sam Goodies and this record comes. 01:05:09 Speaker 4: In dream job. Whish i'd Sam good change in my life. 01:05:12 Speaker 1: I think I got fired for stealing three f. 01:05:14 Speaker 4: Ris jury is still out. 01:05:17 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm just saying that, you know, to see where we thought they were marketing and I felt for that marketing hook line and sinker to where they are now, which I don't know, but I'm just saying. 01:05:44 Speaker 5: What was their initial response to Me Myself and I. Was it like, oh shit, this is just number one. Was there was there a hug? Was there a smile? 01:05:58 Speaker 4: In order to answer that question, I have to kind of go back a little bit and say that Me Myself and I was the last song on that album, and it was prompted by Tom Suliman because he's like, yo. 01:06:09 Speaker 1: This record, this album is good. 01:06:12 Speaker 4: We just need a radio record. 01:06:13 Speaker 1: So automatically that prompted disdain from them, you know. 01:06:16 Speaker 4: What I'm saying, Like what we radio record? We got everything. And that's when me and Mace sat it down and we did the music for Me Myself and I. Because it was like, okay, just catchy song, knee deep rock funk, DELK fan for life. We put it together. You know, they're like, all right, we're gonna take the rom style from Black as Black. This is Black as Black, It's black and Man record today. We're gonna do that Rohm style. 01:06:41 Speaker 1: Put it over that song. It was just kind of here you go to make Tom Suliman happy. 01:06:45 Speaker 4: Then it's a boo So that's why they hate this song. It was like, ah, we's kind of forced do this record. We have saw a big record, But how did that happen? You know what I'm saying? It was the trick of the devil, like Twilight song me, I love the record, like, oh my god, cause I'm all a Funkadelics fan and me and Way Me and Maysy Will put it together. It was just like we did it quick. 01:07:05 Speaker 1: It was dope. 01:07:05 Speaker 7: But how dope is that that you made a record like he requested it and you made the exact thing he requested it and it was a hit, Because that's a hard process, like do you understand what a radio hit is? 01:07:14 Speaker 5: And plus it really wasn't established in a hip hop back in eighty eight eighty nine. 01:07:21 Speaker 4: Back then, like hip hop just discovered. 01:07:24 Speaker 5: And you know because three ft Ninred came out well January of eighty nine, so really you're talking to eighty eight. There really wasn't any thing like oh if I take this obvious thing from ten years ago and resell it, it'll work like that. 01:07:38 Speaker 10: That didn't be like Puffy that was the formula. 01:07:41 Speaker 5: I mean, I would still think that even I hear it. You know, I wasn't like thinking like cynical, like oh, they're using this obvious shit like. 01:07:49 Speaker 4: It ain't a chick singing the hook well to Daylight. It was obvious and one thing you gotta unerstand abou daylight. And they might disagree with this, but I think it's part of the beauty and part of their artistry. Especially back then, there was a sense of arrogance, you know what I'm saying. It's like, yeah, we're gonna do this this record. Oh god, everybody knows this, you know. It's just and that was kind of swept throughout all the native tongue, and that was the beauty of it. It was there was a certain arrogance to like, you do this, but we do this thing, you know what I'm saying, And that was part of it. That's why, you know, even though you know it was too obvious for them, you know, even though like say, no going certain songs here and there are obvious things, but that was just way. 01:08:33 Speaker 5: Was that my thought or was it like I thought you guys were just being clever shit and like, oh damn, you can rhyme over. 01:08:40 Speaker 1: I can't go for that. 01:08:41 Speaker 4: Oh no, no, that that that was part of that was a record I had. And then other part that that with his face merce had put together pass had put together. It was his idea. 01:08:52 Speaker 5: Wait, I gotta ask some about say, were you the the anchor of saying no go? Because I have a production question. As far as I know, there's not an instrumental of I can't go for that out there yet. The part that you guys rhymed over would be the verse of I can't go for that, which has Daryl Hall singing on top of it. Where in the hell did you find four bars of do do do? 01:09:22 Speaker 4: Do? Do? 01:09:22 Speaker 7: Do? 01:09:23 Speaker 4: Do? 01:09:23 Speaker 7: Do? 01:09:23 Speaker 1: Do do No? That's the hook, you know, when. 01:09:29 Speaker 5: They say over the time, there's four bars of that that are clear that I can't find nowhere. 01:09:36 Speaker 4: And figuration you'd have to ask post that I'm gonna pass the buck and and and there's a there's a one two things on there at that if I disclose, I'm gonna be they're gonna come after me. Doubt that thirty years later they're all, oh, trust me, they still come in trust. 01:09:55 Speaker 10: Me, I'm sure especially so you still get But then the pot that the. 01:10:02 Speaker 5: Reason Okay, well, you can choose not to answer this question, which is part two, Like, but I meant so, were you just doing this Google? 01:10:15 Speaker 4: I so like throw this in there, throw this and then, because like that's exactly what it is. 01:10:19 Speaker 5: But crossword puzzle mixes so brilliantly with it, Like it's rare to find two melodic samples that are the same bp ms that also. 01:10:32 Speaker 1: Mixed together. Like I'll say that, say no, go if. 01:10:36 Speaker 5: Those who are familiar with my DJ and style and the fact that I mix songs in the same key with each other and all that stuff, like you're doing forward thinking there where it's like crossword puzzle. Okay, I'm using nerdy references whatever. Yes, well, I didn't want to call out Michael Jackson's a TV guards but thank you boss books. 01:11:00 Speaker 1: They can get on who sample dot Com look at. Yeah. 01:11:02 Speaker 4: But which is which I might say, is it's somewhat inaccurate at times, just some things I seen and I'm like, that's not that. Oh yeah, I don't let it be wrong though, but I don't want to debate it because then just be quiet. I really use this, Yeah, I just this Beetles sample. Sometimes you gotta just you know, let it up. 01:11:22 Speaker 1: But it's well, okay again I'm thinking that you're like, okay, well, let me use something that's in the relative minor of something that major kid, right, that's what Okay, just cut me off there. 01:11:34 Speaker 5: I'm thinking too much. You just thought this was dope and let me mix it in there and what we did and it was beautiful. 01:11:39 Speaker 4: Man. I really miss those days. Is everybody had their little record collection and we go in and we add stuff. Oh, I think I have something to go with. Some part of it was by ear and that, you know, okay, and knowing your record collection and knowing parts and and you know, coming through records, and the other part of it is which nobody was doing back then. We was was pitch shifting. 01:12:00 Speaker 5: What was going to lead to My third question was that you were also some of those samples had to be readjusted leading to the original Buddy yeah, the Commodore shit and mix it with the the bo Deadley shit. 01:12:14 Speaker 1: Okay, were you using that Yamaha, I know, the Yamaha thing out of Pitch. 01:12:17 Speaker 4: Shifter ESBX ninety I think it was. It was called SBX ninety. Yes, yeah, it was pitch shifting on that and resampling it and yeah, and taking it and kind of because you know, the thing is we want We knew it worked melodically, but it just didn't work in the right key, and a lot of it was just hitting the button. All right, that's right, and it was good sometimes having an engineer who had a musical background, he could go, well, I think it's in a genie minor with it, but. 01:12:43 Speaker 5: All right, can I just take six seconds of silence just to breathe? So all right, SBX ninety, thank you. 01:12:51 Speaker 4: But the thing, but the thing is, you know, part of the arrogance that I'll go back to that is that we actually thought, you know what I'm saying, like, it wasn't just going soop up this fun you know, drum break, which works, and that's hip hop, but we just took it to another let's pitch shift, let's do this, let's you know. 01:13:08 Speaker 1: I think that's really thought about. Punius though, that's not arrogance, you know, at least. 01:13:14 Speaker 4: You know, like I said, when I went to the studio, I was like, Yo, if we're gonna do it, let's just let's just do it. Let's just whatever imagination goes. That's where the limit is, and that's where we took it. 01:13:24 Speaker 5: See it speaks to me because usually beat makers after the three feet high, after the Nation of millions, three fig and Paul's boutique generation sees that, oh, sampling could go anywhere, then like a lot of us will recreate that stuff. When we first get drum scenes and I was like, wait, why is my ship blending like their ship? And then I'm suddenly realizing that you guys were pitched. I would ask engineers like, why isn't this the same key? And now I'm realizing that you were a pitch shifting the beauty of technology. 01:13:54 Speaker 4: Man. 01:13:54 Speaker 1: I mean, we learned a lot of things in the studio and I'm not gonna lie. 01:13:57 Speaker 4: As a producer, I would go in there and because I think I feel like I'm like a coach, right, I had to go in and team riled up. We got with the Pistons and we gotta beat the Lakers. You know what I'm saying. I don't know how we're gonna do it. We're gonna figure it out. So I'm getting them all amped up. But in the process I'm learning, I'm like, Okay, yeah, Paul, can we do Yeah, we could do it? How do I do that? 01:14:17 Speaker 1: Who's the bad guy? 01:14:18 Speaker 4: Though? 01:14:18 Speaker 1: And that I just didn't have to figure it out who's the bad guy? 01:14:21 Speaker 5: Cause if like if someone's like, yo, you know it really sound dope, funcky drummer like, and like, are you the final word on at least for three feet? 01:14:34 Speaker 1: Are you the final word? 01:14:35 Speaker 4: And says, I don't know if this goes together with that, and we can't. You know what the final word is, put put it in there and if it works, it works. If it don't, it don't, And I live. That's how my production style has been from that point on. You know, It's like, even if you don't like an idea, I don't. I don't know until I hear it. It might not sound right in my head, and I can dispute it, but we can really argue. When there's the one and it's whack, it's without question. 01:15:04 Speaker 5: Can you give me an example of a song of which, like either Pasa or Dave or Mace was like, Yo, this shouldn't work, and then like you just let them hang themselves with their own rope? 01:15:16 Speaker 4: Man, I can't not offhand. I could tell you some things I put in that was black that I was like, that's not working. Was the beginning of plug tuning. It was like, hey god, it was recently it was going yo. Man principle Paul plugs in and give us a hype effect, and I go, yeah, let's try this. It corny, But after we recorded played it, it was good. In my head. 01:15:45 Speaker 1: It was like I were good man and we edited it down. So you have to audition ideas in front of a jury. I mean, that's so hard. It's not even in front of a jury. 01:15:55 Speaker 4: It's just like and just it harks back to steto sonic like and and low offense to the guys. But it was a learning process. Let's do nah, let's do nah. I'm like, when I get my own group, we're gonna put everything in there. You'll see, all right. So, like I said, it was the polar opposite whatever I did. Instead, I want to just the hard core opposite in this group. I'm gonna treat them differently. And that's what I did. Let's put everything in there, put in there. 01:16:24 Speaker 1: Which leads to day Soul is Dead. 01:16:26 Speaker 4: Now. 01:16:27 Speaker 5: I actually think that's the better record of their Cannon. I mean, for me personally, that's my favorite one. That that album made my career. 01:16:38 Speaker 4: Wow, like that was. 01:16:40 Speaker 5: I Mean, I've had many a moment where it's like stop, stop your heart in its tracks and you stop what you're doing and you sit and you listen to it. But I mean, nothing will ever beat the Sunday that Jason Brown and I cut church to sit in his dad's card to listen to that record from Start the Fire. 01:16:59 Speaker 4: That means, I mean I saw my Lord. 01:17:05 Speaker 1: One that. 01:17:07 Speaker 5: Two Things one heavily bootleg before it came out. Everyone seemed to have a copy of this record before it came out. But you know, for people to talk about the darkness of it, I don't see it. 01:17:22 Speaker 1: I think it's even more humor, more zanier, more funny, more samples, more creative. I mean, for God's sakes, you guys got the cover Rolling Stone for this record. 01:17:36 Speaker 4: So it's like that was a tough record though, man, and I say, you don't have good times than thinking about it? No, No, I mean it was all my Daylight Records to have their own experiences and was fun, you know. But I think in the sense of that man, after those guys won their first tour and they got you know, because all of a sudden, everybody beating everybody up, you guys, it went from like from zero to one hundred for them, like black you know, they were like you know, platoons Q powers Q also like, oh my god, you know you just got this number one record all around the world. 01:18:09 Speaker 5: How did you feel about that? Which you never answered that question. What was the feeling once you guys went platinum? 01:18:15 Speaker 4: And uh, it was like whoa, you know what I'm saying. Everything moves so quick. It's like you don't have time to really acknowledge it because all it is is more work coming in. 01:18:26 Speaker 1: You know. 01:18:26 Speaker 4: It was when time sit back and just really think about, eh man, I made it. You know, it's it's like whoa, Okay, it's to keep it pushing, you know. And I think for them, it was just a lot of pressure, you know, be here, be there, do this interview, do this. 01:18:42 Speaker 1: We need more daisies around you, you know what I'm saying. 01:18:45 Speaker 4: And the more that was pushed upon them, the more they rebelled and the more they got like what das you know? 01:18:51 Speaker 1: So it by the time the second record. 01:18:54 Speaker 4: Came around, I remember I remember, you know, being at meetings with the label with Tommy Boy and Dave and and Pas going, you know, the label say why don't you do whatever? No, no, we'll just quit, We'll quit what like it was like quit, you can't quit. Yeah, we'll quit. 01:19:13 Speaker 1: We don't want to do that, We'll just quit, which was. 01:19:17 Speaker 4: Which was just you know, it was just they were just angry, you know what I'm saying, and and understandably so like you know, I guess just seeing I guess one getting used to the demands, you know, having a label push certain ideas on them. I guess the expectations of now the world's expecting so much. They had to build up their their show because remember, I don't know, in the earlier shows they weren't as received. 01:19:42 Speaker 1: It's like nowadays, wait to come out. 01:19:44 Speaker 4: It was like people like you're showin' good as that record, they were getting booed. I mean in some places, you know, they had to build up, so it would like said, it was a lot quick for them to kind of catch up to. So by the time the second record came around, you know, you know, beating up people in the records, it was you know, it was a ring ring rig, it was you know, it was a lot of that vibe. But the part that I really respect about it is they it was still creative because what they were going through, they didn't like you know, they wrote about whatever they were dealing with. 01:20:17 Speaker 1: And I tried to and I try to make it happy. 01:20:19 Speaker 7: You know. 01:20:19 Speaker 4: My thing was like, all right, guys, I understand you. Let me let me sprinkle some of this on top of it to kind of give it this kind of so it's like evil. 01:20:28 Speaker 5: So if you weren't there, how dark could they saw as dead have gotten if you weren't really. 01:20:36 Speaker 4: Throwing in the silly Yeah, I think I don't know, honest, No, no, no, not. 01:20:43 Speaker 5: So like but he's gonna b K lounge like how like whose idea? Like where's the where's the where's the genesism? 01:20:53 Speaker 4: Man? That I have to give them the credit for that because of piecing together all the different music and stuff. But it it was just man, like I said, we would sit down and talk during that time, and you know, I'd hear all stories about the road and just and be like, oh, now, mind you you're you're arrogant to begin with. 01:21:11 Speaker 1: Now through all the fame and all like the really you really want me to do this? 01:21:16 Speaker 4: You really? You know, just like when they had that sign you're pissing us off with your photos or whatever that that you know right right right there with that guy. You've seen him out the Grammy's first grade, just like right, smirking, like why we're here, that's them, you. 01:21:30 Speaker 5: Know, do you think it's it's the guilt of not wanting to look like they're enjoy it. I always figure that there's a judge and jury in the head. And usually again with most with the smart end of Black culture, especially with the music is concerned, there's a lot of overthinking and usually that turns into sabotage and next thing, you know, it's fifteen years before your next comes out and all this other stuff. So well, yeah, I mean I don't need to name names. Just think of who's not released the record between eight to fifteen years. That's because they don't have a Prince Paul, right, they don't have a that's not named Shy. That's because there's no Prince Paul in their lives to say, like, you're overthinking. 01:22:16 Speaker 4: It, just you know, just do whatever you feel is right. Whatever I always say, your first thought is your God thought. You know, everything else beyond that is you just analyzing and taking external things to be learned to add to it. So whatever you feel is is the right thing that even goes with gut instinct, you know. So that's how I make music. First thought is the right thought, Let's record it. That's why a lot of times usually the first take is, yo, that was it. You took something, somebody tried to recreate it, and like you might know the rhyme a little better, but that feel on that first one was the right feel. 01:22:48 Speaker 1: Copy that field, but know the rhyme, the words, yeah, other words? Did you ever? 01:22:55 Speaker 4: Oh? 01:22:55 Speaker 7: I was I was thinking to myself, I said, they were the first ones to kind of fight that earthy box. 01:23:00 Speaker 1: In my mind, like, you know, they invented it too, I know. 01:23:03 Speaker 10: So that's the weird part. 01:23:04 Speaker 4: It's like, why was dead right to build it and destroy? But I mean to to answer, I say that y'all weren't fooling anybody, but okay, But to answer your question, I mean, I know I can't really answer for for them, but as I see it is they just I don't know, they just had a musical standard and what they thought was corny was not corny, and they just so rebelled not being that typical who they deemed as a corny artist, you know, and things that just seemed I mean almost almost to the point where I think it worked against them because I you know, from what I remember, they had a lot of offers for a lot of commercial things. You know, I would have gave them a good amount of money, but it's like, okay, so PEPSI yeah, I don't know, like what, yeah, look, we was gonna our first deal. 01:23:56 Speaker 1: Our offers. 01:23:57 Speaker 4: We had one with Profile, Tommy Boy and and Geffen. Geffen was offering us the most amount of money, and it was just it was the beginning of Geffen and I was like, yo, as signed with Geffen. I'm worry with Tommy Boy, I don't know about them. You know Profile they did, they were about to release it takes two. It was like I remember we went to the office. It's like, yo, we just signed this guy, Rob Base, who do you think your song? Oh my god, it's great. We're gonna sign your song. Plug Tuning offering us more money Geffen. I think I think Man, if I remember correctly, Profile was like five or ten grand for like one song. 01:24:30 Speaker 1: I think. 01:24:32 Speaker 4: Man Geffen was something like forty grand. 01:24:35 Speaker 1: It was just something dumb, you know what I'm saying. And Tommy Boy was. 01:24:40 Speaker 10: It would pay the song right there. 01:24:42 Speaker 4: This was talking about I'm talking about single. Now you're talking about album. Oh you know, and you know, Tim, we'll give you what we can get you. You know, you know what I'm saying. But they liked the vibe of Tommy Boy because it seemed more real to them, like they were into the music and into which ultimately turned to be the right thing anyway, because then, who know, if we went a play offs, it might have had the same impact. 01:25:00 Speaker 1: You would have been the roots. 01:25:04 Speaker 4: So you know it h it all. It all kind of kind of worked out. But yeah, I mean I think it's you know, we're keeping it real goes wrong. 01:25:13 Speaker 5: Even though I have a gazillion questions about Dayla soulds Dad, we gotta, we gotta move. 01:25:17 Speaker 1: But I gotta ask, did you. 01:25:20 Speaker 4: Have any clue that your swan song with them would be Blue Mind State? You know Blue Mindstates when old comedians seem to like that's how I got like more. 01:25:30 Speaker 5: Yeah, like Chris Rock and I will still have these arguments, like he still swears that's like in his top five. 01:25:36 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:25:37 Speaker 5: Part of me is a little sad about that record, Like I feel sad about that record because I feel like that's where the four of you parted. 01:25:44 Speaker 1: Weighs. 01:25:45 Speaker 5: Yeah, Dayla hasn't really made an album that I like, absolutely, like, disliked or whatever. 01:25:51 Speaker 1: But I do miss the lightness and the humor of their records. 01:26:00 Speaker 4: Well, well, I think as time went on as my promise with the first album, but you know, they reeled me in back on the other two and I did start steaks as high as well with them. 01:26:11 Speaker 1: Well you did Dog eat Dog right or started? 01:26:14 Speaker 4: Yeah, we recorded in my house that that freaking dog. But that's that's all Dave's idea. I'll give them credit for that. Like I just recorded and kind of navigated. You know, the beginning stakes is high and the it you know, I stayed a teenager and they grew up. You know what I'm saying, That's how it evolved. You know, just I'm like yo yoah, yo yo, man, let's do this, let's record that, And it got to really where they were like I don't think that's right, Paul, and I had to respect that. You know what I'm saying, it's it. Then I'll be going against what I said earlier, like it's your art, it's not mine. So I couldn't impose my will on them. But for so long, you know what I'm saying, because then it becomes me, and then I become that thing I hate. So the best thing to do stay is hot. And it was really tough because day La Soul really made me who I was or I am as a producer. I had to like, it's better that we just part ways. And that was tough. 01:27:11 Speaker 1: I remember. I remember that day Clear was in my house hand him to a a tapes. You know, oh, like the nice version of doctor. You know, it was a nice version of that. 01:27:22 Speaker 4: Right. So from the time Balloon comes out, Balloon is ninety three three and then very bigger time. 01:27:34 Speaker 5: Yeah Kane questions and oh the big daddy thing the title track of I'm still in that baseline for the next record. 01:27:45 Speaker 4: Oh, Man Caine. I love working with Kane. I met him during the stets of Sonic Days you seem at the quarters and stuff and yeah, and he called me and said, yeah, man, you got a song. It's like, yeah, you know, try this. You know what the cool thing back then is like now everybody makes beat tapes. Yo, what do you got to get beat tape? Listen to it? 01:28:04 Speaker 1: Back then it was like, yo, I hear this song for you, This is yours, this is for you. 01:28:09 Speaker 4: I dictate what happens. You know what I'm saying, and you can't do that now. It's just like third base, like gas Face. 01:28:14 Speaker 1: And whole songs and all that stuff in front of them, and it was cauture. 01:28:19 Speaker 7: You know. 01:28:19 Speaker 4: It's like I have it at the house or I made it and I hear you on this and you trust what I'm telling you. Now I'm c's and people what you got. Yeah, I like that. I like this one. I'm recording them to send it back to you. It's not like being in the studio go Yo, that's whack or Yo, try this over. 01:28:36 Speaker 7: You know. 01:28:36 Speaker 4: It's it's hard for me to work nowadays, man, because I missed that type of energy. You know, even to dispute me, you're like, yo, man, no, Paul, well show me. You know, that's how you make things get better and better and better. But yeah, but we came going back to the question. Yeah, yeah, Cane hit me up, you know, and it's like, Yo, I'm working on the second record like that. I'm a King fan. 01:28:59 Speaker 5: Besides, you did Brooklyn Queens end gas Face right, yeah, okay, yeah that that that emotions horn breakdown. It's like one of my when like my pie in the face moment. Usually when most people it's for mine, it's always that dinging like whenever it. 01:29:16 Speaker 1: Happens to me, that's what that, That's what I hear. Like the my my pie in the face moment is is that part? 01:29:25 Speaker 4: Oh man, I'm associated with you? 01:29:26 Speaker 1: So But the thing is you didn't. 01:29:28 Speaker 5: You didn't go light though once you exited Steaks as high like you went to Grave Graves. 01:29:36 Speaker 4: Oh man, you know what Grave Diggers was a part of Grave Diggers was. You know, we talk about the niceties of Daylight Souls Dead, But when that record came out, a lot of the critics and stuff were saying, Dela Soul is dead. It ain't no three ft high rides. It was really maybe no, no, no, no, no, noished. Maybe amongst the the hip hop peers and everybody, it was cool, but amongst the hardcore critics critics, it was getting panned time out, time out. 01:30:05 Speaker 5: I got a dispute you on this, Paul uh Houston. For starters, I've never seen such a glowing first of all. They also's Dad got a better review than three Feet High and Rising Rolling Stone. I've never seen a four star. I mean leave reviews were rare back then and again they gave y' all the cover, which is some shit. I memorized. I cut out that all right, forget it's not about me. The Village Voice. It was a top six passing job Village, which is hard for ninety one era Robert Christigal to give that that much. 01:30:51 Speaker 1: Critical praise. 01:30:52 Speaker 5: Now maybe with local papers like that, but I'm just saying the source gave y'all a perfect five. That was the first five I read that wasn't in that ice cube summariz that album was a classic. 01:31:07 Speaker 4: Let me chime in. I think part of it too is the setup of having three feet high rise and they were endeared and loved and people like they could do no wrong. Second record comes out, like I said, you're on the outside looking and I'm on the inside. You know, your sales a lot lower, you know, and then you know somebody you know. The first album was this, This album is so mean. It was you know, so I'm hearing all this. It was like, you know, we put so much money, more money in this record, and it's I think it's time, so you're listening. So the pressure is on, which led to me having the label with Russell when I did Doodo Man Records. It was the pressure of living up to three feet high rise and like he wanted me to make that record again. It's like, I can't make that. I can't do that, you know. 01:31:54 Speaker 1: So I did the Resident Alien record, which is some Friends. 01:31:56 Speaker 5: I did love that, Thank you, Shaky Ground and mister but like all that, that's I love that record death Yeah, thank you. 01:32:04 Speaker 1: It was. 01:32:04 Speaker 4: It was a fun record. But he, you know, they were like, we're not feeling at this when we start out the dispute of me calling it doodle Man Records, which Russell called me numerous occasions trying to talk me out of it. You shouldn't make a doodoo man. I was like, yeah, that's the only way I do. That's the only way I'll do the deal. If it's Doodo Man. 01:32:23 Speaker 5: If it's other than that, I don't want to do it. It's like it is I mean now that Prince Paul will be when when Miles of Blackish grows up. Oh yeah, he's going to be Prince Paul. Oh god, his father is in uh yeah, wow. 01:32:40 Speaker 1: Child. 01:32:42 Speaker 7: While you were on this musical journey, was it like a lo low comedy journey going on with you because I mean you about the funny as you are talented. 01:32:50 Speaker 1: I think I'm more silly than i'm funny, But thank you. I appreciate that all your Grammys come from comedy records. 01:32:55 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, Chris rock stuff right, local figure. I just like having fun and my personality is quirky, and like I said, you know, I've been eighteen since I was eighteen, Like it hasn't changed, and which bodes well for some but for others it doesn't. You know what I'm saying. But you know, I just like, I just like having fun. Some people get the joke, some people dope, you know, most of them don't. 01:33:21 Speaker 7: But at some point you knew that it was beyond just your hobby and your thing that you like to do, because you started making money off of it, Like Emir said, so yeah. 01:33:28 Speaker 4: I was weird and you started to make a record. 01:33:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's even I think. Just just to sustain. 01:33:35 Speaker 4: Being in this industry for this long freaked me out more than anything else and doing what I wanted to do, which was which I don't know too many people get a chance of doing that, but I was just so fortunate. So it ate to sound like I'm you know, on a sports channel and so blessed with what thank god, what they I feel, man, because yo, I kind of wrote my own story. And that's very very hard to do, especially in music and the super duper and hip hop. But it it's but I always kept in mind and I always and we talked about this earlier about money. I just saved my money so I'd be able to do what I wanted to do, because I think once you start, especially when you start making a certain money in this music exchange, you to start getting a certain lifestyle, then you want to maintain that by any means necessary. And then that's the while it starts. We'll produce artistic decisions, how yeah, how you're gonna do. I will produce for food. So I was like, if I keep a moderate lifestyle, you know, I got a house, cars, you know, whatever the case is, keep it simple, then I can make the records I always want to make without having to like man, really you know, or be that dude who just to sustain the lifestyle. We've seen him who moves over to Bulgaria with this girl, who lives down with this girl. You go, you go on to over there. It's like, yeah, man, you a town and hurt you. My man. You're out here now. Man, I'm wrapping at the club down the street, about to tour the local certain yeah, everybody knows. 01:35:00 Speaker 5: I want to say his name, but yeah, the dads that are living. Yeah, and you go, this is my girl, sweat. 01:35:07 Speaker 4: Lauda meet you. 01:35:10 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:35:11 Speaker 4: I told him we used to rock back in New York. 01:35:15 Speaker 1: I know who you're talking about. 01:35:17 Speaker 4: We can't say no, I'm not talking about a person. 01:35:19 Speaker 9: There are people pigmy so can avoid. 01:35:24 Speaker 4: Me being that dude. It's like, I live a practical lifestyle so I can make the music I want to make. And I've been all right, I'm still live in New York. Correct, Yeah, I live in New York. I'm after my daughter graduates high school. I think I'm gonna I'm gonna move out. You're talking about coming down south. I was gonna say, in New York. 01:35:41 Speaker 5: Every every New York Pioneer moves to North Carolina eventually, come on rap retirement. 01:35:47 Speaker 4: Look, man, my tax is double digits man, every year, the amount of paying taxes. But when I stayed in my house, I could have bought me a whole new house. I could brought me a mansion in North Carolina eight that had been the other house. 01:36:01 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. 01:36:02 Speaker 9: I wanted to I want we was talking offline, but I wanted to talk about Psychoanalysis. Uh that record Cycle How was it open for you? And the record that like you could not make that record to day you would be think piece to death. 01:36:14 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're talking about like Beautiful Night, which talks about date rape and killing white people. I mean, but it was in the eyes of a cycle path. You know what I'm saying. That was a shield, but it paints the story from the beginning. This album's called Psychoanalysis. The guy you have a psychotherapist and somebody goes through all these different weird things, and yeah, it is somewhat of a shield, but it is the truth, you know. And so weirdly enough, I made that record thinking that that would be my last record I'd ever make. Like I honestly thought like my career was over because that was ninety six. Yea, it was ninety six. Now mine, I just started working with Daylight and that was that was very depressing. 01:36:55 Speaker 1: Wait. Cycle Analysis came out before Prince of Pie. 01:36:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, Princess was ninety nine. 01:36:59 Speaker 1: Oh shit, okay, so. 01:37:01 Speaker 4: So Prince amongst it was Daylight. I lost my record situation with Russell Grave Diggers. Oh that's just the that's just the fad. You know, you guys are Grave dig Six Feet was ninety seven. 01:37:17 Speaker 1: Time out. But that record did well, though, dude, you know buzz yeah. 01:37:21 Speaker 4: You know, but it was during the time when Biggie and everybody else was coming and that was like the movement, and then I was still stuck on and w a. You know what I'm saying. That was you know, I was making action. 01:37:33 Speaker 1: Records, you know what I felt The big mistake was yes, and that's why where it Yes Windy. 01:37:41 Speaker 5: Yeah, here's the thing though, Okay, Nowhere to Run To was was a good club single. But I felt y'all made a deadly mistake not making bang your Head because that song for for for month in Philly, that's all DJ Cosmi Kiff shout out the Cosmic Keeff made. He would play that relentless live and I didn't know that nog you gotta hear you gotta hear it on loud, you got to hear it in a club setting. 01:38:14 Speaker 1: It just it sounded perfect. 01:38:18 Speaker 5: That was our ghost stats and for half a second, like it didn't catch on, but for that month, that cosmic Keeff has been to shelve that record, and he kept calling him at at g at D Street, G Street, make this a single. I need an instrumental like this ship's gonna I'm gonna make it work on radio and it never but I agree with him, Bang your head should have been it should have been. Wait, I have won one question about six feet before you go on a sign? Who who is playing on that title track? I feel like it's you guys, all of us. Yeah, that's that's that's the junk yard band, man, That's how we were playing. 01:38:55 Speaker 4: This is what happens when you leave a bunch of dudes before the engineer gets in and there's all instruments and in the live room we're like yo yo, you played the drums, yo rizz. We're just like. 01:39:10 Speaker 1: Back when I didn't back when I didn't know any better. That would be part of my DJ Oh my god, And that's when I was DJ Pine So I cleaned the floor. 01:39:22 Speaker 5: Oh without a doubt, man, that's just that song I used to clean. But I love to sit out. It's still like on on my on my on my list. 01:39:31 Speaker 4: Man, there's a whole like session of us just playing and Rizzid took the took the dat tape. Man. Yeah, but but I remember it was mastering that records. When you guys mastering your first record at Sony. I don't remember exactly where it's at, but I remember, Yo gave me a box of cassettes or a bunch of sets. So Yo, here's our first record. If anybody wants to eat blah blah blah. And I still I still got like two of them. 01:39:57 Speaker 1: You know, it's weird. 01:39:58 Speaker 4: I was gonna bring it today so you could sign if want me off, I still have it. 01:40:02 Speaker 5: What's weird about that day was that I know that Michael Jackson was also in that building mastering history. 01:40:11 Speaker 1: And in order to go to the bathroom, like I had to clearity. Yeah, yeah, to clear I couldn't just randomly be in the hallway, you know, trying to go to the bathroom like. So yeah, that day, I remember it was a defining moment. 01:40:25 Speaker 4: Man. It was like a few define moments like that. And when I met Comment at the music h New Music Seminar when he was a little kid, at his tapes and stuff. It's like it's moments. 01:40:34 Speaker 1: Yeah I remember, yeah, yeah, that was all right, man. 01:40:37 Speaker 4: And I kept I was like, you know, she got you sign it, man, I get people signed everything. You say it, right. 01:40:45 Speaker 5: So Prince amongst Thieves, which didn't that come out the same day as think It's fall Apart. I think that TLC's fan mail, Eminem's, Eminem's record. 01:40:55 Speaker 1: And mine was the least successful. Are you trying to rub that in on here? 01:41:01 Speaker 4: No, I'm saying that statistically your record failed. 01:41:06 Speaker 1: See. I wasn't even going there, Paul. 01:41:07 Speaker 5: I was saying that while we were packed him at fifteen fast in the van going from record store to record whatever. 01:41:13 Speaker 4: Like doing that whole two weeks, that's all we listened to. 01:41:16 Speaker 5: Wow, And even then I was like, damn, why did I think, fucking Paul, Like, why do I think it? 01:41:21 Speaker 4: Damn? 01:41:21 Speaker 1: We could have made something create Like I almost felt like, damn, I fucked up with this record of ours. Prince among Steve's is no. But I was. I kept here and I was like, damn. 01:41:34 Speaker 4: He always comes up with the fucking cleverest ideas that I can't who who. 01:41:39 Speaker 1: Was dumbed up? 01:41:40 Speaker 4: The reverence everython came out a year late too. Oh yeah, I handed in in February of two thousand and eight. It was two thousand and eight. No, no, not eight, I mean nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, nineteen ninety eight, and the label satur for a year because it's like we don't know what to do with for a year. Then you should have looked, Yo, you don't understand like the look of like sitting in a boardroom with played the record and everybody after record goes, well, oh it was so dispass I worked so hard on that record. 01:42:16 Speaker 1: They not know who they're messing with. 01:42:19 Speaker 4: That's times when you tell Paul make whatever record you want to make, I'm like, really, word and I had that, and they're like, this is the way the budget went. We should have gave it to sex Mob. But I think there's another group that had signed back then. Who was Who was Dom Dumb on that record? That the Reverend? That's uh my man McKnight who I guess you know set Free Yeah yeah, call him McKnight. 01:42:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, he that that that was his boy. He brought him in I was recording. 01:42:48 Speaker 4: I was at his house and I was like, you need somebody play a reverend, Like I got somebody with a perfect voice. And he came in and he killed the first first shot. 01:42:56 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 01:42:56 Speaker 4: I was like, you know what to do? He's like, I don't played no reverends, Like, yo, just say whatever your rhyme is, whatever rhyme, random rhyme you got, but say it like you preached it, like like college. Yes, that's just one of his random rhymes, said, and preach your style and work. You know, I was surprised. You know, that was fun. It was. That was a hard record to make, man, because I didn't use program. Imagine wait, I used too much. No, I did it on a ADS, but I did it with a sequencing program called Master Master Tracks six, and I sequenced everything live with an ASR ten and two S nine fifties. So I triggered all the all the vocal parts, so nobody at right now, nobody acted against each other. I just recorded all their lines and then picked the best line, and then step by step line line line, line, line, and then after that did sound effects, sound effects, sound effects, sound effect. 01:43:54 Speaker 9: So the chubb rock he's rhyming over the biz beat box like those were recorded separately. 01:43:59 Speaker 1: Those Yeah, well you buz did his beat first and then yeah, Wow, yeah, a lot of pro tools that ship. Yeah you know that shi it was a night man, you know, you know it's so dumb, it's that ship. Well, pro tools is way more expensive back then. But I should just kind of just what pro tools. 01:44:17 Speaker 4: But it's me, it's me thinking again, like save save this two thousand bucks. 01:44:22 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna be in this for too long. 01:44:24 Speaker 4: You know, I'm saying even at that point, you're still thinking that it's gonna come to you know, it's not till I turn now to fifty I say like, wow, okay, I made a career out of this. Oh wait, are you serious? 01:44:34 Speaker 1: I'm very, very very because I mean because I was what examples of hip hop are there? 01:44:40 Speaker 4: See? This is the thing though, you even in R and B are there. That's because unless you're. 01:44:47 Speaker 1: Like I think, I think with black yes, your your DNA motion is the whole winner take all thing with black artists that we have to be at the top of the mountain like Rocky. You know you're in. 01:45:00 Speaker 4: But the thing is is that there is space in this room alone. 01:45:05 Speaker 5: There are three blue collar you know, there are three blue blue collar musicians here, which I think maybe in ninety six. It was made to be a thing like they're shame in being a blue collar musician, or that you're not winning, or that you don't have this yacht at your access. 01:45:24 Speaker 10: But I know what you mean now, Okay, I was catching up. You mean, right, like not super rich. 01:45:29 Speaker 4: Working class work, working class collar musicians. 01:45:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know that's wait, are you giving me the side? You really believe me? 01:45:40 Speaker 10: I believe Fonte And maybe. 01:45:47 Speaker 5: It's a very No, it's very it's real. Real wealthy people don't have to go to their job. I'm at my job right now. Okay, Yes, I'm. 01:45:56 Speaker 12: Saying, you know, your blue collar has a waffle on it and a heart lego pen gangster. 01:46:07 Speaker 1: That's the smoking mirrors to make y'all think I'm youthful. But I'm just saying that. 01:46:13 Speaker 5: As long as and again you you didn't have lofty, I don't know if you dream of owning twelve miles eriates And. 01:46:20 Speaker 4: You know what I really wanted and I bought my mom my house instead was a one ninety band that was kidded. It was Chalkole Gram. I remember sitting at the dealership even if this or your mom, Yeah, and I was like, you know, what we have no place to live. 01:46:32 Speaker 1: But my whole, my whole, my whole Negro way of thinking was one ninety. 01:46:37 Speaker 4: E kid it. 01:46:41 Speaker 10: Versus black man. 01:46:43 Speaker 5: I did that though, you put off my mom's house to build my record room. The nigga one, Yeah, because I don't want that's a cute tip. I was like, should I want to lose my records? This record it's going to be how I make money? And it went like your mom didn't have a place to live. I mean, yeah, she had a nice apartment. Is we would she lived in Center City on brush she had a nice apartment. 01:47:06 Speaker 9: So with the politics of the business record was that Because it's funny you mentioned that you thought, Psycho now this was your last thing, reading a line of notes of positive business, I thought that the last thing. 01:47:21 Speaker 4: You know, it felt like it because I chepel was on that right. Yeah, because imagine I did this record man, put all this work into this record and handed Tommy Boy and you know, and they really didn't love it until critical claim came back. You know, It's one of those things like somebody you know, you have something, it's all right, and then everybody goes, oh, that's dope. Nigga yeah, it's dope, and we have it. It wasn't until that point where they realized that something dope. It was at the end of its run. 01:47:51 Speaker 1: So you mean to tell me that by the time that the politics of the business came out, then. 01:47:55 Speaker 4: It was like they were like, yo, make another one. They's like, make another Prince among thieves, talking about Prince among thieves and head into politics. And I'm like, I can't make that. It's like it's like Bugs Bunny one show only or no, Daffy Duck blows himself up. You know, it's one. I can't do that Again's so hard. And plus when I didn't get too much love the first time. So and having a conversation with the label, remember they're like, you know, it's about a singles market, has nothing to do with an album. Paul thinking so backwards, I'm like, word, I'm going to make this record and it's just going to be a spoof of single, which backfired against because everybody took it literal and I'm like, it's a spoof, but I'm just joking. 01:48:35 Speaker 1: This isn't what I really do. This is just like kind of a joke and and yeah, it went, it went. 01:48:41 Speaker 9: It went hey, why Yeah, I remember we talking about when we were doing the breaks and we talked about booty clap. 01:48:47 Speaker 4: That's like my figure. You would saying how like Luke you did that as like, oh yeah, yeah, that was a psycho analysis. 01:48:53 Speaker 9: But then Luke came out with Scar and I think that was like one hundred and forty something crazy. 01:48:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was. I was too slow at one hundred and twenty five. I was like, man, I can't get the spoof right. 01:49:05 Speaker 8: So I have a quick question about politics. Did Chuck Rock ever pay you the twenty two hundred. 01:49:09 Speaker 4: Years you know what, I just have to say, unequivocally, No, I have not got that back, nor do I ever expect to ever get if you ever gave it back, yo, I would go on all types of social media and I would say, you know, I'm gonna say he's the greatest guy. But I would go, yo, he finally paid me back. I don't know, like it took all this time man, and coming back. You know, man, that that that could be a lifetime movie. I would tell you all the guys that. 01:49:44 Speaker 9: Story be like what, yeah, what was the story was done? Twentywo hundred dollars? I can't get to that you put it out there. 01:49:54 Speaker 4: You know, it's like I got man, you know, was it like production was some production stuff for music? 01:50:01 Speaker 10: I just got got personal. 01:50:03 Speaker 1: I just got god. 01:50:04 Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. I was a vic you know what I'm saying. That's all I could say. 01:50:07 Speaker 1: I got got you know, and you live and you learn, you move on. 01:50:11 Speaker 4: You know. The money didn't hurt me as much as the fact that I thought we were cool. You know what I'm saying. 01:50:16 Speaker 1: Oh, so this is like there's still feelings behind that. 01:50:20 Speaker 4: I mean, because I mean it's like, even if we see it now, it's like, who's mad cool with you? No one? 01:50:27 Speaker 1: And that's how let's say let's say let's say, like, for example. 01:50:32 Speaker 10: Sake, I never been in his house, but we kind of okay, Let's. 01:50:34 Speaker 4: Let's say cool all of a sudden, and you will never come either. So let's say hypothetically, she set you up to steal from you. You like, oh something, who was cool? We hung out, we did, we work together, we. 01:50:49 Speaker 1: Back in the day for ninety can you name it your but when it was cool? Oh damn yeah. So I mean it makes a great story, you know what I'm saying, and I'll tell it one. 01:51:06 Speaker 4: Day in full okay, in social media, but but no, no, you know, you know, I honestly I think chumb Is is and I can say this is about time to talk about that. I think he's super dupid talent and some reason why I work with him. And he's really you know, he's really smart, and you know he's funny and all the other great things, very charming. But at the same time, you know, those are the things that really make great set up a great vic I got vixed. I'll just say that, man, you know, wait before we wrap up. 01:51:42 Speaker 1: Handsome School. But we have that too. 01:51:45 Speaker 4: Okay, wait, been in like eight groups, got myself quite often, I gotta wait. 01:51:52 Speaker 5: I'm sorry because I'm gonna forget this and Steve will kill us if we don't mention the fact that you worked with TiO Macera te. 01:52:00 Speaker 1: Ab Oh yeah, yo, that was great man with Vernon Reid on that record. Steve and I have a running joke with H. T. T O and Felonious Monk. 01:52:12 Speaker 5: There's a documentary where Felonius does this like brilliant take on piano and he tells to okay, play it back for me. 01:52:18 Speaker 1: And t was like, oh, I didn't record that. I was just getting levels, and but Thanes like, okay, but play it back for me. He's like, I didn't get that all right, Well just play the tape back for me. No, you don't understand I didn't record it, all right, Well wait right here, just play it back for me. That's me and Steve all day. Just play it back for me. 01:52:38 Speaker 4: But they had they got it on video tape. 01:52:41 Speaker 1: That's the ironic, right. 01:52:43 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that is that's true. That is true. 01:52:45 Speaker 1: But what was it like working with TiO? 01:52:48 Speaker 4: To me, just like working with Bernie Warrell. It's to me, it's like free college, you know what I'm saying, Like, I just I throw on my part, but I'm just watching, you know that my whole like uh thing, especially with production, working with people who are the seasoned like that. I mean, you know, we all learn from each other, but I'm watching hard body. I'm asking a ton of questions. I'm like, how did you do this? Blah blah blah, and you know, get into the mind frame it. I mean all of it, all of it helps you know, So that that's to me what it was. More or less, it was just like me fan boying, like, Yo, why'd you do that? When you did that? How'd you do that? And it's funny Like a lot of these older guys, I'm sure you've dealt with this too, the man, all we do is make all manufactual like, but what do you mean? May we just cut on switch man the episodes of the show, you know, And so I'm sitting there like, well in awe, like, but the equipment was so limited back then, and what did you do? 01:53:44 Speaker 1: Wait? 01:53:44 Speaker 4: One more? One more regrets Miles Davis's producer for that, thank you? I was I'm sorry, what did you have to do with new Kirk's career? 01:53:55 Speaker 1: Thank you? 01:53:57 Speaker 4: Regrets. 01:53:59 Speaker 5: We can't end the show without missing done on new Kircules show stops. Then we'll go to Texas forgot. So right now I'm thinking of regret questions. Man new Kirk me new Kirk. 01:54:11 Speaker 4: We met when he moved in from the Bronx to Amyville in eighth grade. Eighth grade was pivotal in eighth grade, and we were in a group. He was my MC, he was empty Kid wonder Wow and his and we had my man Mike Telux Uh and his and and also new Kirk's brother Ray whose name is Sugar Ray, and we had a we had a group called the Soul Brothers back in in in uh in high school. And and you know, after a while, new Kirk kind of went on to his thing. I was getting more into stetsisnic I met them, and he got more into like a prince vibe. So we, you know, even though we're mad cool musically, we're kind of separated. And he was just making demos and stuff and and with all my friends. If you know what's in all my records, there's usually a band of characters that follow me from record to record to record. 01:54:58 Speaker 1: One of them is new Kirk's primate and Bemos the pop Master. 01:55:02 Speaker 4: You know, there's certain people did that that it just my friends from like childhood and the pop mass. Was he the one on booty him pop Master does all my uh hey oh yeah, yeah, that's that's freaking yeah. Yeah, I just seen the pop Master about it. But wait, who uh uh uh uh who worship? Who is that? 01:55:31 Speaker 5: Oh? 01:55:31 Speaker 4: That that's this guy named Ron. He worked at the at the I told you I done a guy for stuff. Hey, you and the booth he was he worked at Calliope. He was like the manager a lot of I've heard that voice on a lot of other stuff too. After he was on my record, I launched his career. He was working at the studio as. 01:55:54 Speaker 1: A bad the original version of Who Do You Worship? Oh? 01:55:57 Speaker 4: I love that one. 01:55:58 Speaker 1: Why didn't y'all put that. 01:55:59 Speaker 4: On the record? I don't know. I have no idea. I loved that one. 01:56:04 Speaker 1: Get it? 01:56:04 Speaker 4: And where did you hear that? What's my name? 01:56:06 Speaker 1: Motherucker? 01:56:09 Speaker 4: I can't even find that. It is in my thing of cassettes, and I don't know where it's. 01:56:13 Speaker 5: I have a draft of of des was Dead that's slightly altered than the version of Man. 01:56:21 Speaker 1: That's beautiful. Another text regard question, Oh. 01:56:23 Speaker 4: New Kirk, let me get back to Newkirk. But yeah, so so new Kirk. After I asked him, you know, do the voice in the three Rising and third Base? And oh this is before third Base? I introduced him to Russell and Russell signed him to his OBR and that kind of set it up. That's why I had a little bit of juice. Man was the joint. 01:56:45 Speaker 1: That's when people actually kind of liked me. 01:56:46 Speaker 4: You know, I could I could call up a random person, hey man, Paul, how are you you know, when when you start making money for people that Yeah, yeah, you know what was your text regreat question? 01:56:59 Speaker 1: Uh? 01:57:00 Speaker 5: Who was they are talking about at the beginning of AFRO Connections at a high five. 01:57:08 Speaker 1: Or we can't say, okay, don't mention the name. Were they talking about someone specific? No, not that I can think of. That's all you have to say, like they might have to ask them. 01:57:17 Speaker 4: But from what I remember, it was just an overall because that was the vibe back then, because dudes was just doing that. You know what I'm saying. It was just the movement. 01:57:24 Speaker 1: And what is Crocker Crocker thing? Or no, no, no, that's him saying his name though. No, No, that's on Crocker from Kojack. 01:57:33 Speaker 4: That's right. 01:57:35 Speaker 5: I forgot Tom Hayes handled one. Okay, playing found that Crocker. 01:57:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know it's one of those things you got. You know, you just ran Crocker. Yes, put that in there, Crocker. You just come up to curses Crocker. 01:57:48 Speaker 9: You know, I see handsl wore Mylin school real quick. I know we got handsl wore Mylin school. 01:57:54 Speaker 1: Y'all. 01:57:55 Speaker 4: Just well, hopefully they just use one of the joints and Baby Driver the movie. Yeah, I just I just heard about that. My nephew told me about that. 01:58:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, they used that. 01:58:02 Speaker 4: How did that come about? I don't know. 01:58:05 Speaker 9: I just well, I mean, did the group not that that placement, but just you an automator. Oh that was a joke. 01:58:10 Speaker 4: It was automated. Was at Tommy Boy and he was like, because me and water made became cool when he did doctor, I was doing Psychoanalysis and I did a remix with Blue Flowers, and then we were talking about Chris Elliott and Get A Life and ha ha, I remember the episode. 01:58:25 Speaker 1: Handsome Model in School had some way Model School. 01:58:28 Speaker 4: Ha ha haa. We're laughing with joking. 01:58:30 Speaker 1: That's where it comes from. Yeah, which changing which changing copies of old VHS tapes of Get a Life. 01:58:35 Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden he's at Tommy Boy and he's like, uh, yeah, I told I told tom and Monica that we got a group called Handsome Boy Model School and they would have signed us. I was like really, He's like yeah. I was like, all right, bet, let's do it. So you know, it wasn't a group, it was just a joke, and then we had to live up to the joke. By making the record and anything behind the joke. 01:58:57 Speaker 1: Did Chris Elliott ever talk to you guys about Yeah. 01:59:00 Speaker 4: But actually we met up with Chris Elliott and he was like, I can't believe that Abby's coming to the show today. Side note, Chris is darting. He was like, I'm surprised anybody even liked anything about it, foxing me such a hard time with the thing, and and he wanted to work with us on some project, but it never it never happened. Is that how the Atlantic thing for the second album The White People? Oh, it's because Tommy Boy. Uh one just took the catalog from Tommy Boy. So all the groups got dispersed. Obviously, nobody wanted me as a solo artist, but they accepted me and Handsome Boy modeling school, which I was just fine. 01:59:34 Speaker 7: Can I just give people a point of reference where Chris Elliott remember something by Mary? 01:59:38 Speaker 1: Yeah? 01:59:38 Speaker 4: He was the guy he was what was his character name? He was the boyfriend, yeah, the one that had all. 01:59:44 Speaker 10: The zi Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 01:59:46 Speaker 1: He was the lead character. And get a life, which is what I know. But some kind of life is also the dicks. 01:59:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, I got so much awkward stuff right. 01:59:58 Speaker 1: Oh that was my lad. That was my last. 02:00:00 Speaker 10: This was gonna be one the Dicks. 02:00:08 Speaker 1: It was a group. It was like his fate like Motown soul group d you don't know it was. It was this was like oh, it was like, yeah, I was depressed by then. 02:00:23 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that was Yeah, this is a fun. 02:00:26 Speaker 1: There's certain records that I make that I'm serious. 02:00:28 Speaker 4: I'm like, Yo, this is I think this is dope. When you hear records like Psychoanalysis or The Dicks or Instrumental, but yeah, those barn was a fun records. It was like I just make just the mate. 02:00:38 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. 02:00:39 Speaker 4: That's like you like it, you don't like it, hate me, But that was just, you know, an imagination thing. 02:00:43 Speaker 1: It is fun. 02:00:44 Speaker 4: I got all my friends together. I gotta say that I'm one of the biggest Barman fans ever. Barman. He talks about Barman's on that ass B list half the time. He like, Yo, who's uh area code like apartment who Barman's genius. Yeah, Man, very overlooked Man. 02:01:06 Speaker 1: I love that dude. 02:01:07 Speaker 4: Man. But yeah, he talks about you all the time, Man to you all lived together. At some point He's like. 02:01:13 Speaker 5: Man, it's just you know these' it's my spirit animal man Paul. 02:01:18 Speaker 4: Yeah. 02:01:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's crazy. 02:01:20 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's mad. Cool. 02:01:21 Speaker 5: I got him in a group with uh uh the director Eternal Sins. 02:01:28 Speaker 4: Yeah, with Michelle Okay, yeah he did talk about that. 02:01:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool man. 02:01:32 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's good to work. I'm glad you guys are working together. 02:01:35 Speaker 8: They got a side project. All right, So what was your you had? It was one last really kind of stupid question. I'm not stupid. George Clinton tweaking remix? 02:01:43 Speaker 4: Wow, forgot about that, Jesus, My brother brought it up not too long ago. 02:01:47 Speaker 8: Did you touch that before or after? Prince got ahold of it? Because you both are credited on the record. Two princess Yeah, two princes on the same record. 02:01:54 Speaker 4: Honestly, you know what. I don't even I don't even know. I think I have a copy of the record somewhere. I don't remember anything. All I remember I remember, I do remember this is that Before then, Prince wanted me to come down to the was it Paisley Park Studios and record but I couldn't at the time. I was really busy. So he sent me the the masters to I mean, he had to Island Media where I was working. 02:02:21 Speaker 1: That's funny. 02:02:22 Speaker 4: Now, I was like, oh, I have no time for you, Prince. What a douchebag of my you know, but and you knew I was a big George Clinton fan. And I remember doing it, but I don't remember the process, you know, I just remember recording. Okay, this is cool, not some of my better work. I mean, I wish I could go back in time and really redo that. And I wish I'd go back in time and go to Paisley Park Studios. Can you before we go, can you talk about the Brooks Hill Project? 02:02:50 Speaker 1: Oh, Brizil, Yeah, that was a long time in the making. 02:02:54 Speaker 4: Man. That was me visiting South Polow hooking up with Hadrig Brown and now who was the host of Young TV Raps Brazil back in when they had the Young tv Raps. Yeah, and you know me talking about Hanles make a record and hooking up together and and introducing him to Mecca, you know him find out Mecca's families from Brazil and her peature or speaking Portuguese, and they bonded. And then you know, I always bring my usual suspect to always bring new Kirk in because you know he's he's my boy for life, you know what I'm saying. So and yeah, we just started making this record piecing together. It took so long because we try to get right in the room at the same time. Somebody from Brazil, somebody's you know. So it's it took us like almost like eight years to make that record and just to like just to record again. Wow. Yeah, because we record some South Paulo, some in Queens, some in Long Island, and some in Atlanta. So we were all over the place. So it's just set up. Now do you set up at the crib like you just have a home set. We recorded vocals and I've had a home set up when home setups weren't popular, like when we was doing the daylight stuff. I started making a home setup because I try to save as much money and pre production before I went to studios possible, because like so, when you have a twenty five thousand dollars budget, yo, you gotta find And I kept that mentality because I seen it like this, right, when you got a budget, you make a record, let's say hypothetically, and I'll keep it at twenty five thousand dollars. 02:04:25 Speaker 1: You know that's money you're definitely gonna have. 02:04:27 Speaker 4: You don't know if you're ever going to make a royal do So I'm trying to spend this little without jeopardizing the integrated project as possible in making that record. So I can just pocket the rest because I know that that's the only money I may ever have from that record, ever, ever, ever. 02:04:43 Speaker 1: Okay, So Paul, we can stay here for another nine hours, but I get. 02:04:49 Speaker 4: Restless, like. 02:04:51 Speaker 1: More, But I gotta I gotta go. 02:04:54 Speaker 8: To my job. 02:04:54 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Can we just have warm round of regret questions and just fired off and just try to keep it short? Is it's not? Okay? 02:05:03 Speaker 5: But fuck it, this is the only time we get to ask this. So when you recorded the second Chris Rock album, yes, I noticed. What microphone did you use on Chris Rock? Sorry, because it sounded like I felt that you were going for those old Red Fox records. If you listen to the quality of of of the comedy bits that are done in the club, it was like, oh, it's like, oh, like you were doing a Dap Kings fifties throwback or nah, you just had a bad microphone. 02:05:40 Speaker 4: And you just it was probably the latter. You don't listen back, I'm like, Yo, this sounds really like it just all I know. Was the last record that we made was it Never Scared to Me, which sounded too perfect? 02:05:58 Speaker 7: I like this. 02:05:59 Speaker 4: Yeah. I like the sound of like the non digitized, non sterile, old school stuff. So yeah, it was probably by design, and that was probably thanks to Scottie Hart, my engineer. He probably sat and like, yeah, it was. 02:06:11 Speaker 1: Recordable on the on the cad mic whatever microphone was. 02:06:16 Speaker 5: Well start it was a Stroker genius because if he ever does another comic record, I'm like, you gotta get that microphone you used for the second album, which it. 02:06:25 Speaker 4: Makes all the difference. Man. It's funny how tonality will make you perceive even jokes or anything that you listen to. Yes, you know, and I try to tell people that, like and that's why certain things don't sound really good sterile and new age, you know, High Death? Did you record those the real people ignorance. 02:06:41 Speaker 1: Skits to ye? 02:06:46 Speaker 10: Do I even ask why you and Chris Rock. 02:06:51 Speaker 1: Have you heard the records? 02:06:52 Speaker 4: Yeah? 02:06:52 Speaker 10: But I'm just I'm asking this for people who might be listening. 02:06:56 Speaker 4: Prince Paul, Well, the weird thing is after psycho analysis, he ran called me up, and I thought it was a joke from Daylight because we play jokes on each other, like here he goes Apasta's network will call, And I thought it was like a joke, like you know, yeah something, it's Chris rock Man do his record. 02:07:10 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever, what record you want me to do? 02:07:13 Speaker 4: I was just like all like, yeah, okay whatever. He said, No, I'm serious, I'm gonna do like maybe like one or two things. And we met up and I was like, this is a joke. He's like no, I'm serious. And then we just got along really well. 02:07:24 Speaker 5: Because no one thought that Chris rock was going to make a record with skits on it, right, and so you know that's. 02:07:30 Speaker 1: What I don't think he thought he was gonna make a regular s got to just developed this thing on. You know, all right, Bill, do you have a regret question? What's Prince Paul's favorite skit? 02:07:41 Speaker 4: Anything? Doctor Dre made on up? 02:07:47 Speaker 12: That? 02:07:47 Speaker 4: Really? 02:07:48 Speaker 5: To me, that sets the bar forever because he says he acknowledges that he got all that shit from you. 02:07:54 Speaker 4: Well, you know, he just as he for a fact, I didn't know that. Yes, he's acknowledged that. You know, Wow, that that's man, that's flattering because I was trying to copy that. From that point, I was like, oh my god, this is incredible. You know, it's just like this last thing I'll say is it's just like when I finally met the Beasties and Paul mc a, yeah, God rest his soul. He was and him and ad Rock was telling me like, we hated you when you made three feet high Rise because we wanted to do that first. Like you know what's crazy. I paid three high Rising out the licensed ill I just added extra stuff to it, you know what I'm saying. That was the bewildering part of it. And I'm like, wow, you guys are by inspiration that and and uh and easy. I think the first record he did and Paul the Funk Cadelic. It was a combination. 02:08:45 Speaker 5: So yeah, you guys were definitely doing the Beatles Beach Boys battle for it was going to be more autistic. 02:08:51 Speaker 1: Steve any questions. 02:08:54 Speaker 4: Like, regret question, Yeah, I regret regret question. 02:09:00 Speaker 5: Lady and gentlemen, this has been an awesome episode of Prince Carl. 02:09:05 Speaker 1: Thank you, and I will give you guys around applaw us. 02:09:10 Speaker 4: Thank you for tolerating me this long and waiting for. 02:09:15 Speaker 5: I'm sure you will be a repeat quest because we got so much more questions, repeat a repeat question of repeat quest. 02:09:22 Speaker 4: Yes, and I will come back and ask you all questions to ask. 02:09:25 Speaker 1: About the lawsuit anyway on behalf of like you and Steve and Bill and other Bill who's not here, pour off some spit, Lincoln and Flow. 02:09:38 Speaker 4: And Prince Paul. 02:09:39 Speaker 1: We thank you very much and uh, we'll see you on the next go round. Of course, Love Supreme only on Pandora. Crocker What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.