WEBVTT - A Conversation with Jemele Hill

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<v Speaker 1>Jammel Hill is a well known journalist, author, and media personality.

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<v Speaker 1>She celebrated for her outspoken commentary on sports, politics, and

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<v Speaker 1>social issues, particularly issues of race, gender, and equality. She

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<v Speaker 1>gained prominence during her time at ESPN, where she co

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<v Speaker 1>hosted Sports Center and contributed to The Undefeated. Since leaving ESPN,

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<v Speaker 1>she's continued to build her platform with projects like her

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts Jammel Hill Is Unbothered and her memoir Uphill, which

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<v Speaker 1>details her personal journey and perspectives on navigating a career

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<v Speaker 1>in media while advocating.

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<v Speaker 2>For social justice.

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<v Speaker 1>She's also been active in broader cultural and political conversations,

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<v Speaker 1>often using her voice to call out injustice and uplift

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<v Speaker 1>marginalized communities. And she is our guest today. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Civic Cipher as we podcast on location here in Los Angeles, California.

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<v Speaker 1>I am your host, Rams's joh.

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<v Speaker 2>I am Q and while we are broadcasting from Los Angeles, California,

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<v Speaker 2>here we are in the presence of someone I consider royalty,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't mean that hyperbolic. I mean that literally.

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<v Speaker 2>I was lucky enough to get a copy of uphere

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<v Speaker 2>and to see that journey from a purview of somebody

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<v Speaker 2>that grew up where you grew up, you know, almost

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<v Speaker 2>literally in the same hallways where we went to high school,

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<v Speaker 2>and knowing the journey. For some it might look like

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<v Speaker 2>because you landed on your feet, that you had this

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<v Speaker 2>master plan and that you had it all figured out.

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<v Speaker 2>Ramses and I have a similar story. You know, we

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<v Speaker 2>were radio DJs on the hip hop station in Phoenix, Arizona.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we're giving away Migo's tickets, You're playing CARDI

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<v Speaker 2>b having a good time, and then something happened where

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<v Speaker 2>we had to use our voices to speak up for

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<v Speaker 2>our people, and it put us in the crosshairs. I

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<v Speaker 2>like to tell people, I got us called to the

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<v Speaker 2>office because of my big mouth. I couldn't stay quiet

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<v Speaker 2>about what we were seeing going on outside, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>people protesting in the wake of George Floyd's murder, and

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<v Speaker 2>the news called us, you know, vandals and said we

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<v Speaker 2>were terrorizing the city. But we were at protest with

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<v Speaker 2>our kids. I had my two year old, he had

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<v Speaker 2>his I think six year old at the time or five,

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<v Speaker 2>and we knew that that wasn't true. And as you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the bullhorn only goes so far, it only reaches so

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<v Speaker 2>many people, and Rams was like, man, we have to

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<v Speaker 2>do more. We can't just show up for the protests.

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<v Speaker 2>We got this large platform, we got to say something.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, eventually that led to the station just

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<v Speaker 2>flatly telling us, you know, we don't want to do

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<v Speaker 2>a black show on the hip hop station. And we

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<v Speaker 2>were the only black on air personalities in the entire

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<v Speaker 2>state of Arizona. So being told by the hip hop

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<v Speaker 2>station they didn't want to do black, Rams just quit

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<v Speaker 2>for both of us and then called me on the

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<v Speaker 2>phone and told me, hey, we quit. In the position

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<v Speaker 2>that you've been in throughout your career, you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to be responsible with your advocacy because you have

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<v Speaker 2>a living to make, You got bills to pay. How

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<v Speaker 2>do you balance showing up for us? You know, navigating

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<v Speaker 2>like objectivity and advocacy as a journalist, how do you

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<v Speaker 2>navigate that space?

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<v Speaker 3>Well?

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<v Speaker 4>For one, and first of all, thank you both for

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<v Speaker 4>having me on the show. Really appreciate speaking to you all.

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<v Speaker 4>And of course, you know, any opportunity I get to

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<v Speaker 4>fellowship with somebody else from Detroit, especially from Mumford, Yes, indeed, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>that's always very important and special to me. But much

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<v Speaker 4>like you guys knew when that moment came, the moment

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<v Speaker 4>shows you and you were just ready for it, right,

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<v Speaker 4>And so I think it's been the same for me,

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<v Speaker 4>is that there are a lot of concessions that we

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<v Speaker 4>have to make, and especially if you're black in the

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<v Speaker 4>media space, really in any corporate space, there's gonna be

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<v Speaker 4>concessions that you make, but you can't let the place

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<v Speaker 4>you're at or the job you're doing change the integrity

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<v Speaker 4>and the fabric and the DNA of who you actually are.

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<v Speaker 4>And I told people this about ESPN when I got

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<v Speaker 4>there in two thousand and six, and told them throughout

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<v Speaker 4>my time there for twelve years, is that you should

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<v Speaker 4>go into any place you have to know who you are.

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<v Speaker 4>The place can't make you, because if that's the case,

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<v Speaker 4>you're gonna see a lot of inconsistency in how you

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<v Speaker 4>behave and how you treat the platform that you're given.

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<v Speaker 4>So for me, when those moments came where I felt

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<v Speaker 4>like my voice or more emphasis was required, that moment

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<v Speaker 4>kind of chose me and I sort of knew, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>this is the right thing to do. And you also

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<v Speaker 4>know that you're okay with the consequences of how it

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<v Speaker 4>turns out, you know, you all made a courageous choice

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<v Speaker 4>to quit rather than subject yourself to clearly a situation

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<v Speaker 4>that did not value you and did not understand the

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<v Speaker 4>power and the.

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<v Speaker 3>The need for your voice, especially during the time like that.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think when we run into those situations, we

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<v Speaker 4>just innately know no more, I can't. I know, we

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<v Speaker 4>have got to draw a line in a saying right here.

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<v Speaker 4>And the great thing about the way my career tri

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<v Speaker 4>trajectory has gone is that I've had much more authority, empowerment,

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<v Speaker 4>and leverage in this stage of my career, and I

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<v Speaker 4>use those and.

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<v Speaker 3>Weaponize those.

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<v Speaker 4>As I feel like I should for the betterment and

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<v Speaker 4>the empowerment of us, you know, because it's not just

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<v Speaker 4>really about me anymore, because I've been able to do

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<v Speaker 4>some really amazing things in my career. And while yes,

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<v Speaker 4>there are plenty of other things I'd love to accomplish,

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<v Speaker 4>but those really take a back seat to this general

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<v Speaker 4>principle of I have of this business needs to be

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<v Speaker 4>better for us than what it was for me. And

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<v Speaker 4>listen to the OZ that took a lot of you know,

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<v Speaker 4>abuse and had to deal with a lot of stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>They did it so that my walk was a little easier,

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<v Speaker 4>and I think that's the way we should all approach

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<v Speaker 4>this business. We got to make the generation coming after

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<v Speaker 4>us or younger journalists, younger media folks like we got

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<v Speaker 4>to make that path a little easier for them. And

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<v Speaker 4>so that's kind of more my mission these days than anything.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to ask something of you. I I vaguely

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<v Speaker 1>remember when everything went down with ESPN, but famously on

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<v Speaker 1>our show, our listeners know on the Black Information Network,

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<v Speaker 1>our listeners know their Q certainly knows this. I'm more

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<v Speaker 1>of a music guy than a sports guy, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I don't watch a lot of sports shows.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't watch a lot of sports games. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know the names that you guys were talking about earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds I like the fact that you guys are

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<v Speaker 1>so excited about it, but I don't, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>just just I just basking the energy, right And there

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<v Speaker 1>may be some people out there who are kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like me. Now. I know, because I was aware when

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<v Speaker 1>this happened that it's quite a compelling story. But would

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<v Speaker 1>you do our listener as a favor and kind of

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<v Speaker 1>fill in just a Cliff Snotes version of actually what

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<v Speaker 1>happened to you and that critical moment going from you know,

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<v Speaker 1>working to having to stand on business as Q put it.

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<v Speaker 4>So, I got to ESPN in two thousand and six,

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<v Speaker 4>and it was the longest job I've ever had.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the best job that I ever had.

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<v Speaker 4>And so I sort of made my way up the ranks,

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<v Speaker 4>if you will, and I started doing daily television, had

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<v Speaker 4>my own show starting in twenty thirteen. It was called

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<v Speaker 4>Numbers Never Lie. Then they changed the name of it

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<v Speaker 4>to His and Hers. Me and my television partner and friend,

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<v Speaker 4>Michael Smith. We were co hosts, and then in twenty

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<v Speaker 4>sixteen we got a pretty big promotion. They asked us

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<v Speaker 4>to host the six pm Sports Center, which is a

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<v Speaker 4>legacy job in the business. It's a great job, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>hosting Sports Center for those in sports media and even

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<v Speaker 4>those who are fans, they understand the importance of that.

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<v Speaker 4>The sports brand is ESPN's baby, it's its legacy and

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<v Speaker 4>being able to host that it was a tremendous opportunity

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<v Speaker 4>for us. And in twenty seventeen, you know, as you know,

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<v Speaker 4>we President Trump was in office then and this was

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<v Speaker 4>right after Charlottesville, and we saw, you know, to refresh

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<v Speaker 4>some people's mind. In Charlottesville, we literally had Nazis marching

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<v Speaker 4>on an American city saying the Jews will not replace us,

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<v Speaker 4>all sorts of just hideous chants and staking their claim.

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<v Speaker 4>And Trump, who was president at the time, he held

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<v Speaker 4>a news conference. He was asked about this because while

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<v Speaker 4>racism has never died, he certainly awakened the bolder aspects

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<v Speaker 4>of it with some of his language, with some of

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<v Speaker 4>his demeanor, and frankly with the things and the people

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<v Speaker 4>that support him. And so, you know, he held a

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<v Speaker 4>press conference about it, and he was asked about, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>what his thoughts were on it, and he said, there

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<v Speaker 4>were very fine people on both sides, who you know,

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<v Speaker 4>there were no there wasn't very fine people on both sides.

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<v Speaker 4>There was Nazis on one side and everybody else trying

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<v Speaker 4>to stop them on the other side, Okay, And he

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<v Speaker 4>tried to make a false equivalence between the two. You

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<v Speaker 4>had a young lady, a young white woman, the Heather Higher.

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<v Speaker 4>She'd lost her life because a Nazi plowed into a

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<v Speaker 4>crowd of people with their car because they were the

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<v Speaker 4>counter protesters to this very awful moment in our history,

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<v Speaker 4>and So the thing about when you do sports, and

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<v Speaker 4>especially at the place like ESPN, you know, when you

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<v Speaker 4>see these things happening around the world, you're limited in

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<v Speaker 4>the way that you can talk about them because your job.

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<v Speaker 3>Is to frankly entertain people. You know, people love sports.

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<v Speaker 4>A lot of people looked at sports as something that

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<v Speaker 4>distracts them or at least takes their mind off the

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<v Speaker 4>real day to day life issues of their own lives

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<v Speaker 4>and what we're experiencing as citizens. And and you know,

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<v Speaker 4>hearing that defense was just sickening to me. And on

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<v Speaker 4>social media it was somebody who tried to defend what

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<v Speaker 4>he said, and I was going, I was in a

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<v Speaker 4>back and forth with it with this person, which sometimes

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<v Speaker 4>never yes, and it did something we try to avoid it,

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<v Speaker 4>but sometimes today ain't the day and I ain't the one.

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<v Speaker 3>So that was one of those days. Nor am I

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<v Speaker 3>the two.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not the one, order two or one of your

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<v Speaker 4>little friends, any of those three, right, And so in

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<v Speaker 4>this back and forth, I gave my honest assessment of

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<v Speaker 4>the then president are about to be our president elect

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<v Speaker 4>as of this recording, and I just said, like he's

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<v Speaker 4>a white supremacist, and he surrounded himself with a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of other white supremacists, and he is unfit to lead

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<v Speaker 4>this country, period.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's what I said.

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<v Speaker 4>And honestly, people always ask me like, oh, wow, did

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<v Speaker 4>you know that it would create such an international firestorm.

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<v Speaker 3>It was like, nah, because I thought we knew.

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<v Speaker 4>I thought you could tell thought obviously. I thought it

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<v Speaker 4>was pretty obvious.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's one of the most unoriginal things I've

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<v Speaker 4>ever said, because I thought it was just that obvious.

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<v Speaker 4>But when you're anchoring the six PM Sports Center, which

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<v Speaker 4>is the evening news of sports, you know, much like

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<v Speaker 4>you saw the evening news on CBS or NBC. When

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<v Speaker 4>you're in that position, that's not where they expect that

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<v Speaker 4>kind of realism to come from, especially about politics. And

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<v Speaker 4>lo and behold, uh my comment got blown up everywhere.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, it was all over Fox naturally Fox News,

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<v Speaker 4>and then it just kind of took on a life

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<v Speaker 4>of its own. ESPN they decided that they would put

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<v Speaker 4>out a statement saying that hey, that's how she feels,

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<v Speaker 4>that's not how all of us feel, or you know,

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<v Speaker 4>trying to make the separation between those are her political

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<v Speaker 4>views and got nothing to do with us. And I

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<v Speaker 4>put it out that muss that that statement was a mistake,

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<v Speaker 4>because you then you're gonna take it off of Fox

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<v Speaker 4>News and the conservative echo chamber, and it's gonna be

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<v Speaker 4>on CNA now because you've legitimized the criticism by saying, like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>we know what she said.

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<v Speaker 3>It was probably not right, but that ain't us. That's

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<v Speaker 3>exactly what happened.

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<v Speaker 4>And next thing I know, I go into work because

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<v Speaker 4>you know, I tweeted this when I wasn't at work yet,

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<v Speaker 4>And I go into work and my friends. I have

0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.320
<v Speaker 4>friends who cover politics, and a couple of them were

0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.720
<v Speaker 4>texting me from the White House Press brief freing room

0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.960
<v Speaker 4>because of the Press Secretary at the time, Sarah Huckabe Sanders,

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 4>who's now the governor of Arkansas. She says she thought

0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.440
<v Speaker 4>I should be fired for that, and it takes on

0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.200
<v Speaker 4>another life of his own. Then next thing you know,

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.599
<v Speaker 4>Donald Trump is tweeting about me, saying, I'm dragging the

0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.640
<v Speaker 4>ratings down at ESPN and I need to apologize for

0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:55.160
<v Speaker 4>what I said. And so what was to me a

0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.440
<v Speaker 4>meaningless reply suddenly is an international news story, and I'm

0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 4>being talked about on CNN and miss NBC and local

0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.600
<v Speaker 4>news and national news, and all these stories are being written.

0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:06.880
<v Speaker 3>So it is a firestorm.

0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:13.000
<v Speaker 4>And really, the thing that was also obvious is that

0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 4>for as many people who may have supported Donald Trump,

0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:17.760
<v Speaker 4>there was a whole lot of people who did not.

0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:22.200
<v Speaker 4>And much to my surprise, a lot of athletes, many

0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 4>of whom I did not know personally, began to speak

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:30.000
<v Speaker 4>up on my behalf, Kevin Durant, Lebron James, Colin Kaepernick,

0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 4>who I did know, like a lot of entertainers, celebrities,

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:38.400
<v Speaker 4>like they just the black folks mounted up basically, and

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.680
<v Speaker 4>I think, yes, we formed a vultron. And I say

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.840
<v Speaker 4>this often and it's true. It's like I credit that

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 4>for I don't know how close I was to just

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 4>being fired, but I credit them speaking up on my

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.920
<v Speaker 4>behalf for the reason at least ESPN if they were

0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.760
<v Speaker 4>thinking of that, they said, I don't know, I don't know,

0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 4>we want I don't know if we want this.

0:13:58.320 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 3>You know, And so.

0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was a very eye opening time for me.

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 4>And eventually, you know, that happens. And I think in

0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.559
<v Speaker 4>ESPN's mind they were just like, you know, you kind

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 4>of need to chill out and lay low, because I mean,

0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.359
<v Speaker 4>I was getting It was so much of a firestorm

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 4>that like I couldn't open like Twitter or anything because

0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 4>it was just bombarded with people just you know, I

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 4>had to kind of they had to shut down my

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.240
<v Speaker 4>voicemail at work because people were calling leaving death threats.

0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.080
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it was just crazy, you know, and I

0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.080
<v Speaker 4>had to have security at some point, Like it was,

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 4>it was wild. And then fast forward, uh, maybe a

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.240
<v Speaker 4>couple of weeks after this all happens, and ESPN decides,

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, they weren't going to suspend me, they weren't

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 4>gonna do anything because frankly, they didn't.

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 3>Know what to do.

0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 4>The the Dallas Cowboys, it was after Trump had called

0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:58.840
<v Speaker 4>the NFL player's sons because they were kneeling in protest. Really,

0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 4>this was about Colin Kaepernick, you know, him deciding to

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 4>take a knee to protest and bring awareness to racial oppression,

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.280
<v Speaker 4>police brutality, you know, things we.

0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:08.480
<v Speaker 3>Should all agree are bad.

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.880
<v Speaker 4>Him doing that had a rub off effect on the

0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.880
<v Speaker 4>other player, so the other players started to do the

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.920
<v Speaker 4>same thing, and Trump saw this. It was a political

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 4>opportunity for him, so he goes off and calls them

0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.760
<v Speaker 4>sons all this kind of stuff, and the NFL takes

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 4>a quote unquote stand. But then Jerry Jones, the owner

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 4>of the Cowboy, says that if any of his players

0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.080
<v Speaker 4>Jerry Jones, who donated a lot of money to Trump's campaign,

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.680
<v Speaker 4>who was friends with Donald Trump, says that if any

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 4>of his players took a knee, he would cut them.

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 3>Now, this is the same dude.

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:46.920
<v Speaker 4>Okay, just to yes, Jerry Jones, same dude who gave

0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.600
<v Speaker 4>Greg Hardy a job. Greg Hardy who was once convicted

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 4>of domestic violence for choking out his girlfriend in the bathtub. Right,

0:15:55.200 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 4>that same dude was more than okay, we're giving Gregready

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 4>another chance after an eleven game suspension from the NFL

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 4>for some very serious domestic violence charges. And but for him,

0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.239
<v Speaker 4>the line is, if you kneel on behalf of humanity,

0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 4>then you're not worthy of being a cowboy. And I

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.000
<v Speaker 4>thought that was crazy, and a lot of people, because

0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:21.880
<v Speaker 4>the thing is, in our discourse when we were talking

0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 4>about sports or anything, there's one set of people whose

0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:31.360
<v Speaker 4>opinions get elevated and they become sort of the default, like, oh, well,

0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 4>we have to adhere to this opinion. And then there's

0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 4>a whole lot of people who feel opposite, you know.

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 4>For there's a lot of black NFL fans, a lot

0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 4>of black Cowboy fans, and they were outraged that Jerry

0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:47.440
<v Speaker 4>Jones said this, and they were just they were crushing

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.440
<v Speaker 4>the Cowboys players about it, like Dak Prescott and all

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 4>these guys, and they were just like, I can't believe

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.280
<v Speaker 4>you guys would play for somebody who said this about you.

0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.240
<v Speaker 4>Where's your sense of dignity, where's your sense of respect there?

0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 4>You let this white man talk to you like that.

0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:06.080
<v Speaker 4>You know, there was a lot of that, And I said,

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:10.159
<v Speaker 4>I was like, listen, last I checked, because you know

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.199
<v Speaker 4>these players and this is not to absolve them, and

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 4>I get that when you're in that position, you made

0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.560
<v Speaker 4>a lot of money, you have the comfort of speaking

0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.679
<v Speaker 4>up in the way others do not. But at the

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.440
<v Speaker 4>same time, you can't ask the players to constantly risk

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:21.840
<v Speaker 4>it all.

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 3>Well, all you got to do is turn your remote

0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:24.800
<v Speaker 3>to another channel.

0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.120
<v Speaker 4>Anybody putting a gunny your head telling you to watch

0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 4>the Cowboys or the NFL like nobody. So what I

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.119
<v Speaker 4>said on Twitter was that if you all feel this

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.760
<v Speaker 4>strongly about what he said, then you need to make

0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:37.920
<v Speaker 4>you need to make a stand.

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:38.959
<v Speaker 3>Wich a wallet.

0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 4>Stop watching the NFL then, or stop watching the Cowboys.

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 4>They all got advertisers, stop patronizing them, Like why are

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:47.640
<v Speaker 4>the players the ones that have to risk it all?

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.000
<v Speaker 3>And y'all can sit there in the comfort of your

0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:50.640
<v Speaker 3>home and risk nothing, right.

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.919
<v Speaker 4>That was that was what I said. I was like,

0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.720
<v Speaker 4>you go after the advertisers. There you go, and the

0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.919
<v Speaker 4>history of boycotts, that's usually what works.

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.840
<v Speaker 3>That's all I said. Next thing, I know, big Fox

0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.600
<v Speaker 3>News headlines. Big headlines arewa man.

0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 4>They did, because at this point, if I would have

0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.000
<v Speaker 4>just said, hey, I like to tie my shoe, that

0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 4>would have been a news story. It doesn't matter, and

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 4>so big headlines Jameel Hill, ESPNS Jabel Hill calls for

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.119
<v Speaker 4>boycott of the NFL, and I was like, oh god,

0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:21.960
<v Speaker 4>the NFL and.

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.760
<v Speaker 3>ESPN are business partners, right.

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 4>They have a billion on billion on billions deal for

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.000
<v Speaker 4>Monday night football, and now you know, ESPN is getting

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.320
<v Speaker 4>a Super Bowl in a couple of years, so they

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.359
<v Speaker 4>have financially a lot of stake. And so you have

0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.280
<v Speaker 4>now one of your most prominent personalities saying, hey.

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 3>Y'all need to just stop fooling with this league.

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.680
<v Speaker 4>If you feel like that needless to say, my boss

0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:50.360
<v Speaker 4>say is we're quite unhappy, very unhappy. And this time around,

0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.320
<v Speaker 4>they considered that another violation of their very nebulous social

0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:59.480
<v Speaker 4>media policy, and I was suspended, and I was suspended

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 4>for two weeks. And it was that that firestorm that

0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.120
<v Speaker 4>started to kind of die down and came roaring right

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:09.000
<v Speaker 4>back to life.

0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:10.879
<v Speaker 3>And it was then in that moment that I knew.

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 4>But I knew before I got suspended, honestly, you know,

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 4>and people thought I was crazy for saying this. I

0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.520
<v Speaker 4>really wasn't tripping about the suspension. I've been in this

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.920
<v Speaker 4>business long enough to know that when you start messing

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.240
<v Speaker 4>with the church's money, it's going to be a price

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 4>to pay.

0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.120
<v Speaker 3>It's okay, I'm alright with paying that price. I'm fine

0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:27.919
<v Speaker 3>with it. They did what they had to do. I

0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.040
<v Speaker 3>did what I had to do. It's just that simple.

0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 4>However, the part that really bothered me throughout this whole ordeal,

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.280
<v Speaker 4>which lasts, you know, together with the between these two

0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 4>incidents we're talking about a month, is that I came

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.680
<v Speaker 4>up with the type of journalism background. I worked in

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.440
<v Speaker 4>newspapers for a decade before I got to ESPN, and

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 4>there was just this understood code that you never let

0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.720
<v Speaker 4>city Hall come after your reporters. You stand up for them,

0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 4>you fight for them.

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 3>You don't. The whole the way.

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.639
<v Speaker 4>This democracy works is because of a free press, we

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.680
<v Speaker 4>have the right to criticize the government.

0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.360
<v Speaker 3>That is what that is.

0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:08.920
<v Speaker 4>So for all the people who always want to holler

0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 4>freedom of speech, that's what that is. Protecting you from

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.959
<v Speaker 4>retaliation from the government. Right, And so it's not about

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 4>you know, people wrongly think that free speech means I

0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.919
<v Speaker 4>could just say anything to you. You can't do nothing. No,

0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 4>it's protecting you from government retaliation. That is the difference, stupid,

0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 4>correct exactly. So you run up on the wrong one

0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:29.880
<v Speaker 4>and you get popped in the wind.

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, that.

0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 3>All the right one, the wrong one or the right one.

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 4>So at any rate, when Donald Trump came after me

0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.600
<v Speaker 4>and ESPN didn't do anything, that to me is when

0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 4>I knew our relationship was over. And I said mmm

0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.960
<v Speaker 4>to myself, I was thinking, like, yeah, where the way

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.120
<v Speaker 4>I was brought up in this business, you don't do that, Okay,

0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.359
<v Speaker 4>you got to say something even if you know, and

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.760
<v Speaker 4>it's it was disheartening because being at a place that long,

0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.639
<v Speaker 4>of course, you build relationships, it becomes personal to you,

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:04.440
<v Speaker 4>even though it's a transactional relationship.

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.720
<v Speaker 3>I provide talent to you, you put me on air.

0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 3>That's the way it works.

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:14.120
<v Speaker 4>But it did give me some sense of, I don't know, relief.

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.520
<v Speaker 4>I guess because I met with the president of ESPN

0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 4>the day before I was coming off suspension, and he

0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:21.840
<v Speaker 4>apologized to me, John Skipper, He apologized to me for

0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.119
<v Speaker 4>not speaking up and at the very least defending me

0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.199
<v Speaker 4>against Donald Trump. But even still, when that happens, I

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.600
<v Speaker 4>was like, yeah, I don't think this relationship is gonna

0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.600
<v Speaker 4>make it. I did a lot of great stuff at

0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.919
<v Speaker 4>ESPN plus on top of that, and this is not

0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.680
<v Speaker 4>a small thing. I also did not enjoy doing Sports Center.

0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 4>It was a constant fight, like those battles that I

0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:48.600
<v Speaker 4>know you all fought in the position you were in

0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 4>in Arizona, same ones, you know, And I got tired

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 4>of fighting to be me every day.

0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 3>Got really tired of that on Sports Center.

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.120
<v Speaker 4>And because that's a different thing than when we hosted

0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 4>our previous shows, where we had a lot of creative control.

0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.320
<v Speaker 4>You know, we could be who we were Sports Center,

0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.960
<v Speaker 4>as my co host used to famously say, a lot

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.199
<v Speaker 4>of cooks in the kitchen, but don't know, nobody know

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:13.920
<v Speaker 4>how to make a meal.

0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:15.879
<v Speaker 3>And that is what we had.

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:22.159
<v Speaker 4>And when once the political blowback came, it put the

0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:26.680
<v Speaker 4>show in a compromising position because suddenly, you know, we

0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 4>have right wing and conservative think tanks or think pieces

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.000
<v Speaker 4>on us, and it's like the show the success of

0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 4>it moving forward with me in particular, just didn't seem great.

0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.479
<v Speaker 4>And I wasn't enjoying being on there. I don't think

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.760
<v Speaker 4>they were enjoying me being on there because this is

0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.639
<v Speaker 4>their biggest property and here we have all this smoke

0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.600
<v Speaker 4>we got to deal with every time she says anything.

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.720
<v Speaker 4>And in my contract, I had the equivalent of a

0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.440
<v Speaker 4>no trade clause where I had to do Sports Center.

0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:03.040
<v Speaker 4>And the only way I could not do Sports Center

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:05.840
<v Speaker 4>is if I asked to not do Sports Center. And

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:07.680
<v Speaker 4>I was just one year into a four year deal

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.040
<v Speaker 4>was not enjoying it, and so I asked them if

0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:14.440
<v Speaker 4>I could leave Sports Center. I didn't ask to leave

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.199
<v Speaker 4>the company that was a few months away. I was like,

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 4>I want to leave Sports Center because however much time

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 4>that I have left here DESPN, I don't want.

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:25.920
<v Speaker 3>To be doing that. And as they told me flat out.

0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.360
<v Speaker 4>Typically we don't pay people the kind of money we're

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.080
<v Speaker 4>paying you to do what you want to transition into.

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:34.160
<v Speaker 2>But we'll do it.

0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:35.959
<v Speaker 4>And I know they were going to do it because

0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.400
<v Speaker 4>they had just as much ve interest in me being

0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.800
<v Speaker 4>off Sports Center as I did. We were aligned, and

0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:45.560
<v Speaker 4>you know, so I went back to writing for The Undefeated,

0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.240
<v Speaker 4>which has now since become Ndscape. Writing is always my

0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 4>first love. And I went to doing different shows, you know,

0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:57.760
<v Speaker 4>highly questionable and around the Horn and you know, just

0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:00.600
<v Speaker 4>really kind of picking my spots Sports Nation when that

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.439
<v Speaker 4>was still going. And then I got to about you know,

0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 4>this is July of twenty eighteen, and I'm like, I

0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:11.399
<v Speaker 4>don't have anything else I want to do here, Like

0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:15.520
<v Speaker 4>I'm kind of done, and again I'm just one year

0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:15.879
<v Speaker 4>and two a.

0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 3>Two year deal or to a four year deal, excuse me.

0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:21.760
<v Speaker 4>And I met with the president and his second in command,

0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:23.960
<v Speaker 4>the president of ESPN, who was a different president by

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:27.440
<v Speaker 4>that time, and you know, I was just like, I

0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:30.560
<v Speaker 4>think we both have a vested interest in me leaving.

0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:32.680
<v Speaker 4>You know, I don't really want to be here. I

0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.439
<v Speaker 4>don't think y'all want to be here. I'm fine to

0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:38.520
<v Speaker 4>be the first one to say we broke up, it's okay,

0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:40.840
<v Speaker 4>and like we had a good run. You know, a

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:42.920
<v Speaker 4>lot of people don't last that long at any job,

0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:44.600
<v Speaker 4>so to be there at a network like that for

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:49.639
<v Speaker 4>twelve years. So I left and it was great for

0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:52.840
<v Speaker 4>me because for the first time in a really long time,

0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:55.960
<v Speaker 4>it made me reassess what I wanted to do with

0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.160
<v Speaker 4>my career. It made me think about what this third

0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.439
<v Speaker 4>act is going to look like. And frankly, it got

0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:04.840
<v Speaker 4>me out of a little bit of complacency. Like when

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 4>you wind up at a place like ESPN, like people

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 4>are in those jobs forever, like they don't leave them,

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, But if you have other things that you

0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.040
<v Speaker 4>want to do, it kind of wind up, winds up,

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.359
<v Speaker 4>stunting that a little bit. Because you make a good money,

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 4>you're on TV. You know, you could just hit cruise

0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:25.440
<v Speaker 4>control then you're good. You're still working hard, but finding

0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:29.320
<v Speaker 4>the thing that you want to do that kind of

0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:31.159
<v Speaker 4>scares you a little bit, a little harder to do

0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:34.120
<v Speaker 4>when you're in the comforts of a studio and making

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:35.880
<v Speaker 4>a lot of money. So there's a there's a very

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 4>long winded answer of what happened with you?

0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:44.240
<v Speaker 2>I want to add something right here. I appreciate that because.

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:49.400
<v Speaker 1>When we were in a position to have this conversation,

0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:53.040
<v Speaker 1>when your name first came up, I had not made

0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:56.119
<v Speaker 1>that connection yet. I know that story, well, I knew

0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:59.200
<v Speaker 1>the cliffs Notes version of that story, but I knew

0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 1>of the story. I just didn't know that you're because

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:07.360
<v Speaker 1>you're an activist to me, which.

0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:09.640
<v Speaker 3>Is crazy because I would never describe myself that well

0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:10.320
<v Speaker 3>but at all.

0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 1>This is why I wanted to make sure I said

0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:15.160
<v Speaker 1>this before you take the next question or the next

0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 1>round cue to me, that's what you are. And I

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.639
<v Speaker 1>knew that you kind of came from, you know, the

0:26:24.200 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 1>ESPN or Sports World or whatever sports center, and you know,

0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:30.920
<v Speaker 1>that was just kind of a part of the story maybe,

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:32.679
<v Speaker 1>but it just kind of exists in sort of the

0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:35.679
<v Speaker 1>mental sort of fog or whatever. But every time I

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.800
<v Speaker 1>see the name Jamel Hill, it's on some activist stuff.

0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:41.280
<v Speaker 1>So that's the stuff that I share on my stories

0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:43.480
<v Speaker 1>or the stuff that you know gets retweeted, or the

0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:48.120
<v Speaker 1>stuff that we use as source material for our program.

0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.840
<v Speaker 1>And so when I finally did make the connection to

0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 1>the actual story, I was like, Oh my god, that's

0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.320
<v Speaker 1>who we're going to talk to. So that we had

0:26:57.359 --> 0:26:58.879
<v Speaker 1>a whole. We had a whole this was this was

0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.640
<v Speaker 1>weeks ago, but we have the whole thing. So when

0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 1>we say it's an honor to sit and talk with you,

0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:05.199
<v Speaker 1>I really do mean not because to me, you you

0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:07.879
<v Speaker 1>come from a you know, when you was saying that

0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.440
<v Speaker 1>we're sitting in the presence of royalty and he said

0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 1>it before, I don't want to speak for you, but

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.280
<v Speaker 1>it's like she doesn't even know how much of a

0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.280
<v Speaker 1>hero she is of mine, you know what I mean.

0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:20.679
<v Speaker 1>And so I'm like, yeah, right, so anyway, yeah, go ahead, you.

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 1>I just want to make sure I got that in.

0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, thank you. That was that was more than I deserve.

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:28.919
<v Speaker 2>It's an interesting world when being yourself becomes provocative and

0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:32.320
<v Speaker 2>you say benign things like the white supremacist guy is

0:27:32.320 --> 0:27:36.159
<v Speaker 2>a white supremacist and it's a headline that has to

0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:37.359
<v Speaker 2>be confusing.

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:39.720
<v Speaker 4>No, but it does let you know something that I

0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:42.840
<v Speaker 4>don't think most people, and not even us as black people,

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:45.600
<v Speaker 4>that we realize that our very existence is political. Yes,

0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:50.840
<v Speaker 4>it's political, and because our existence and our humanity has

0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:54.320
<v Speaker 4>always been a question. So that's why it's like innately posive,

0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 4>you know, we show up somewhere we could say nothing.

0:27:57.400 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 4>It comes out of our mouth, and there's going to

0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 4>be some people in the room who are wary, are

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:03.879
<v Speaker 4>trying to figure out how we got in there, or

0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:07.720
<v Speaker 4>what's happening, What are you doing here. It's like, we

0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 4>always have to defend our right to exist constantly, and

0:28:11.680 --> 0:28:15.920
<v Speaker 4>so because of that, we don't We may not ever

0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:20.199
<v Speaker 4>even voice a political opinion, but people just inherently consider

0:28:20.280 --> 0:28:21.000
<v Speaker 4>us political.

0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:25.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you mentioned Colin Kaepernick. You guys got a

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:27.080
<v Speaker 2>chance to work together, right, We did tell me a

0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:27.840
<v Speaker 2>little bit about that.

0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:32.800
<v Speaker 3>So ESPN funny how things come full circle.

0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 4>So Spike Lee is directing Colin's documentary that goes through

0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:43.400
<v Speaker 4>the entire bones of his protests, why things that happen

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.000
<v Speaker 4>behind the scenes that people don't know about that are

0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:47.000
<v Speaker 4>very compelling.

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:49.000
<v Speaker 3>It's a phenomenal story.

0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 4>And then not just about the protests, but also his

0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:56.400
<v Speaker 4>early life, like a bunch of different stuff. But so

0:28:57.040 --> 0:28:59.440
<v Speaker 4>Colin to give you an idea of the kind of

0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:02.640
<v Speaker 4>person that he is, He's one of the most principal

0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:06.000
<v Speaker 4>people I've ever met. And Colin and I knew each

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 4>other loosely, very loosely, very casually. I'm a forty nine

0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 4>Ers fan despite being from Detroit. It's not a terribly

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:15.120
<v Speaker 4>interesting story.

0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 2>And we'll talk to her about it.

0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:17.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, well we'll get to that bybe at some point.

0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:21.200
<v Speaker 4>But so obviously, you know, he was once my quarterback,

0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:23.640
<v Speaker 4>and I came there at first know him that way,

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:26.040
<v Speaker 4>and then at a couple of social functions, you know,

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 4>we talked and by you know, real cool and of course,

0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:34.200
<v Speaker 4>you know, when I was going through my drama with

0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:36.320
<v Speaker 4>Donald Trump, he went through his drama with Donald Trump.

0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 4>So and when he was protesting, I was obviously on

0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:43.840
<v Speaker 4>an air at ESPN, and I always defended his right

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:45.880
<v Speaker 4>to protest and the way that he did it and

0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:49.400
<v Speaker 4>calling out the people who were trying to hijack what

0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:51.880
<v Speaker 4>he was talking about and make it about patriotism when

0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:55.920
<v Speaker 4>it was never about that. So we sort of had

0:29:55.920 --> 0:29:58.760
<v Speaker 4>this little history of like sticking up for each other

0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:03.240
<v Speaker 4>and not knowing each other. And one day, this was

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:04.960
<v Speaker 4>a couple of years ago, he called.

0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:06.200
<v Speaker 3>Me and.

0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:10.800
<v Speaker 4>He said, hey, listen, I just wanted to talk to

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.360
<v Speaker 4>you because you know, he has some offers on the

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:17.840
<v Speaker 4>table people who wanted, you know, his documentary, and you know,

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:19.320
<v Speaker 4>he let me know who that was, and He's like,

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:21.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, ESPN is one of them, and I don't

0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:27.760
<v Speaker 4>want to do anything that would undermine your mission or

0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:30.080
<v Speaker 4>seem like I'm in opposition to the things you stood

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:32.800
<v Speaker 4>for against them. He's basically like, you know, I don't

0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 4>want to ESPN can basically be off the table for

0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:38.520
<v Speaker 4>me because of what you went through. And I was like, wow,

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 4>we don't even know each other. Like that said right,

0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 4>it was, And I was so floored by this, And

0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:47.240
<v Speaker 4>I was like, Colin, if you would have if you

0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:49.400
<v Speaker 4>would have never made this phone call to me, and

0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:52.000
<v Speaker 4>I wake up and read in the trades that ESPN

0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:54.120
<v Speaker 4>is doing your doc. I was still watching and support

0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.360
<v Speaker 4>it like it would have never. My personal drama with

0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:00.400
<v Speaker 4>ESPN has nothing to do with you, but I appreciate

0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:03.200
<v Speaker 4>you willing to being willing to stand in solidarity, which

0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.640
<v Speaker 4>let me know Yodas dude is for real, Like he's

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 4>a real dude. And so we get to talk, and

0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:14.440
<v Speaker 4>I said, listen, I went through a very specific situation

0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:18.000
<v Speaker 4>with them. Of the twelve years I was there, eleven

0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:20.800
<v Speaker 4>or so we're good. We went through a very rough

0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:25.040
<v Speaker 4>last year and I still left there with more friends

0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:28.520
<v Speaker 4>than enemies and more people who liked and respected me

0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.280
<v Speaker 4>than not, and including a lot of people you know,

0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:33.840
<v Speaker 4>kind of at the top. So I was like, it's fine,

0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:36.280
<v Speaker 4>We're in a we're in an okay place. Are things

0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:39.360
<v Speaker 4>awkward to some degree, yes, but we're fine. And I

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:41.880
<v Speaker 4>was like, evaluating all the offers that you have, based

0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:44.840
<v Speaker 4>off the information you've told me, ESPN is the best platform.

0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:45.880
<v Speaker 3>It's like they have.

0:31:46.040 --> 0:31:47.320
<v Speaker 4>You know, they wanted to make it part of his

0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:49.200
<v Speaker 4>thirty for thirty collection, which we know, I mean they

0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:51.440
<v Speaker 4>want to ask her for with the oj maide in America.

0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:57.240
<v Speaker 4>So they have a very definitive, excellent history with being

0:31:57.280 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 4>able to do projects like yours. And you know, frankly,

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:04.160
<v Speaker 4>I was a little surprised that ESPN was interested, not

0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 4>because it wasn't a good story, but mostly because you know,

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:10.680
<v Speaker 4>this was a very polarizing issue for a lot of people,

0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:14.040
<v Speaker 4>and you know, ESPN had been under attack for being

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:15.680
<v Speaker 4>too liberal and too political and.

0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 3>All this other stuff.

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:18.600
<v Speaker 4>So I was kind of surprised they were willing to

0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 4>kind of stand in the pain and do something like

0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:24.680
<v Speaker 4>this because eventually, part of his story is the NFL's

0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:28.440
<v Speaker 4>behavior and terms of exiling him from the league. So

0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:30.040
<v Speaker 4>you have to call them out and part of that,

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:33.040
<v Speaker 4>and that's your billion dollar business partner. So I was

0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:34.680
<v Speaker 4>a little surprised, and I was like, I think they're

0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:38.040
<v Speaker 4>the best deal. And he appreciated my input, my insight,

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:42.600
<v Speaker 4>and I also added that like, plus your presence there

0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:44.600
<v Speaker 4>for a lot of the black people who work there,

0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:49.240
<v Speaker 4>like your presence will be very uplifting, it will be

0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:52.920
<v Speaker 4>very inspiring, and you know, I think that's going to

0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:56.640
<v Speaker 4>have like a real trickle down and rub off effect

0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:59.560
<v Speaker 4>on everybody else. Just knowing that Colin Kaepernick has decided

0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 4>to be in partnership with ESPN. So he was like, great,

0:33:03.240 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 4>appreciate it. Then maybe thirty minutes later, he calls me back.

0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:10.640
<v Speaker 4>He said, you know what, I think you're right about ESPN.

0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:13.360
<v Speaker 4>But I tell you how I can What would really

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:15.680
<v Speaker 4>make me feel good about this. He's like, you have

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 4>to be my executive producer. I'm like, I was like,

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:21.480
<v Speaker 4>don't threaten me with a good time. Yes, the answer

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:24.080
<v Speaker 4>is yes. I had talked it by agent anybody. I

0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:26.520
<v Speaker 4>was like, yes, I will do it. I don't even

0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:28.120
<v Speaker 4>know if there's any money involved.

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:29.680
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I will do this.

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 4>And so so, and he hadn't even picked a director yet,

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:38.560
<v Speaker 4>so he hadn't picked Spike Kid, and you know that

0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:41.280
<v Speaker 4>came along as part of the process, and you know,

0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:44.320
<v Speaker 4>we started filming and just being able to work with

0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:50.240
<v Speaker 4>Colin and to really see who he is. There's a

0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:52.720
<v Speaker 4>lot of people, so many people that owe him an

0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 4>apology and getting to know not just him but his

0:33:56.760 --> 0:34:04.200
<v Speaker 4>wife Nessa, like they're marg yeah, yeah, okay, yes, she

0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:06.920
<v Speaker 4>spent some time him and that's that are married.

0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 3>I don't think I let the cat out the bag

0:34:09.160 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 3>there because it's been on social media.

0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:14.480
<v Speaker 4>They posted it because they have a beautiful daughter too

0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:14.919
<v Speaker 4>as well.

0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:19.280
<v Speaker 3>But they're just really amazing people.

0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 4>And it's been my honor to be to play a

0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:26.760
<v Speaker 4>role in telling a story that so many people got wrong.

0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:30.719
<v Speaker 4>And so I'm just excited for people to see it.

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:32.920
<v Speaker 4>Ask for when I know this is probably will be

0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:36.759
<v Speaker 4>a next question. It's like, uh, we're still figuring that

0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:39.520
<v Speaker 4>part out, but it's done, so that's a good thing.

0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:43.759
<v Speaker 4>It's done, but we're still figuring out exactly when. And

0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:48.640
<v Speaker 4>so I'm I'm excited about everybody else saying it and

0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:53.040
<v Speaker 4>so they can understand just how egregious it was what

0:34:53.080 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 4>the NFL did to him.

0:34:54.719 --> 0:34:57.400
<v Speaker 2>So this interesting thing happens in the wake of something

0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:02.760
<v Speaker 2>like that. You know it's now author, execut give, producer, director, host, talent,

0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>scholar Jamail Hill, right, and when you get to this

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:10.480
<v Speaker 2>point where you realize I'm no longer happy in this

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:13.880
<v Speaker 2>place where I've always been. In your case, you landed

0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:15.520
<v Speaker 2>on your feet. You made a decision that was best

0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:18.640
<v Speaker 2>for you. And now in the eyes of us that

0:35:18.760 --> 0:35:21.200
<v Speaker 2>follow you, you're thriving. You know, we're looking at above

0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:24.120
<v Speaker 2>the fold, we're looking at politics, we're looking at executive

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:29.640
<v Speaker 2>producing this documentary for Colin Kaepernick. And the moment when

0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:32.880
<v Speaker 2>you made that decision was it peaceful? Were you like

0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:35.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm out of there? Or were you like, oh my god,

0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:36.040
<v Speaker 2>what's next?

0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:40.040
<v Speaker 4>No, it was very peaceful because I felt like it

0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 4>was time. I was like, it's just time, you know,

0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 4>like we my Everything that I was supposed to do

0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:49.520
<v Speaker 4>at ESPN, I did, and a lot of things I

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:52.320
<v Speaker 4>never even saw a coming, never saw hosting Sports Center coming,

0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.200
<v Speaker 4>never saw frankly, I mean I went there as a

0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:58.319
<v Speaker 4>writer because I was They hired me to be a

0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:01.280
<v Speaker 4>columnist for ESPN dot com, So I had no intention

0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:03.719
<v Speaker 4>of having a television career. That just is something that

0:36:03.800 --> 0:36:08.360
<v Speaker 4>just kind of happened, and so I was grateful for

0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:11.359
<v Speaker 4>the experience for a lot of reasons, but mainly I

0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:14.280
<v Speaker 4>came in as a good journalism a good journalist.

0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:15.440
<v Speaker 3>I left as a great journalist.

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:19.440
<v Speaker 4>Like it really in part because the great thing you

0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:21.080
<v Speaker 4>get to do at ESPN is that you get to

0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:25.160
<v Speaker 4>do a lot of things. So I started podcasting there,

0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 4>did radio there, television, long form journalism, like every type

0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:34.520
<v Speaker 4>of thing I did while I was there, and that

0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:39.320
<v Speaker 4>gives you an incredible amount of knowledge, an incredible knowledge

0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:44.400
<v Speaker 4>base as you go out into the non ESPN world.

0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:48.520
<v Speaker 4>So that made my skills very transferable to do other things,

0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 4>and you know, I wanted to get back to writing.

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:55.040
<v Speaker 4>So I was able to strike this beautiful relationship with

0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:58.000
<v Speaker 4>The Atlantic, who I still write for, covering the intersection

0:36:58.080 --> 0:37:03.680
<v Speaker 4>between sports, race, culture, and gender, and I could write

0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:05.640
<v Speaker 4>about it at The Atlantic in a way that was

0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:08.680
<v Speaker 4>different than how I wrote about things at ESPN because

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:11.960
<v Speaker 4>The Atlantic is not in partnership with any professional sports

0:37:12.040 --> 0:37:14.840
<v Speaker 4>rooks and they're also a political magazine, so you know

0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:17.640
<v Speaker 4>exactly what you're getting if you decide to read it,

0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:19.480
<v Speaker 4>Like I don't have to hear about stick to sports

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:22.719
<v Speaker 4>because politics is what they do, right, and they were

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:26.319
<v Speaker 4>still very much invested and serious about journalism and that's

0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:29.080
<v Speaker 4>getting harder and harder to find. And when it came to,

0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:33.120
<v Speaker 4>you know, doing television, I was able to be a

0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:36.719
<v Speaker 4>lot more, a lot choosier about what I decided to do.

0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:39.360
<v Speaker 4>I had the show with my good friend Carrie Champion

0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 4>on Vice. We did that for a while. We're supposed

0:37:43.040 --> 0:37:45.800
<v Speaker 4>to have a show on CNN Plus that went a

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:48.239
<v Speaker 4>little bit differently, that was above our pay grave.

0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:50.239
<v Speaker 3>That was a whole merger happening that.

0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:51.319
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:37:52.040 --> 0:37:53.840
<v Speaker 4>I often joke that's the best job I ever had

0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:55.480
<v Speaker 4>because I got paid for a year to do nothing,

0:37:56.400 --> 0:38:00.400
<v Speaker 4>So can't complain about that. And then of course writing,

0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:04.560
<v Speaker 4>you know, my memoir. So I was able to fulfill

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:07.960
<v Speaker 4>all these other things that were always in the back

0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:10.879
<v Speaker 4>of my mind. But I was able to prioritize because

0:38:10.880 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 4>I wasn't at ESPN.

0:38:12.360 --> 0:38:13.160
<v Speaker 3>And they're just the.

0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 4>Ability to be able to speak a little more freely,

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.120
<v Speaker 4>to be more involved in certain things. I think that

0:38:20.280 --> 0:38:25.759
<v Speaker 4>was I got tired of also having to you know,

0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:29.160
<v Speaker 4>everything I asked to do turn into some colossal email

0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:31.399
<v Speaker 4>chain that like, I was so.

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:33.439
<v Speaker 3>Happy to be rifted to be rid of all that.

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:37.600
<v Speaker 4>You know, these days, if I'm presented with a project

0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:41.279
<v Speaker 4>or an idea or you know, an opportunity, do I

0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:42.799
<v Speaker 4>want to do it or not? That's the end of it.

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:45.799
<v Speaker 4>Like there's no email chain, it's like do I like this? Okay,

0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:48.000
<v Speaker 4>I do cool, I'm gonna do it in the story

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:50.160
<v Speaker 4>as opposed to being there. What it's like, Well, we

0:38:50.239 --> 0:38:52.560
<v Speaker 4>got to get this person to sign off in this person.

0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:56.960
<v Speaker 4>I do not miss that at all. And then I

0:38:57.000 --> 0:39:02.239
<v Speaker 4>think it was able. It made me reimagine what storytelling is. Yeah,

0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:06.840
<v Speaker 4>I thought about it purely journalistically because that's my background,

0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:09.400
<v Speaker 4>that's where I come from. But as I see now,

0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:12.560
<v Speaker 4>especially being in Los Angeles, it translates into being an

0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:16.040
<v Speaker 4>executive producer for a documentary or like I was a

0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:19.640
<v Speaker 4>producer for someone Biles vacuuseries, which is not on Netflix,

0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:21.879
<v Speaker 4>being able out.

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:22.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, definitely.

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.200
<v Speaker 4>It's I'm not just saying that because I'm a producer,

0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:29.160
<v Speaker 4>but it's very good. And having some other production projects

0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:34.040
<v Speaker 4>of mine go forward and I started to understand like, oh,

0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:35.560
<v Speaker 4>it's all storytelling.

0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:38.600
<v Speaker 3>It's just the only thing that's changing is the method.

0:39:39.000 --> 0:39:39.640
<v Speaker 3>So that's it.

0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:43.040
<v Speaker 4>So but you know, make no mistake about it that

0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:46.400
<v Speaker 4>even though I have autonomy and freedom, I can live

0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:50.240
<v Speaker 4>where I want to live. Finally, you know, got married.

0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:52.880
<v Speaker 4>All these great things that happened, it's still a grind.

0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.600
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's still a hustle. It's just it's just

0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 4>a different kind of hustle. I often joke that I

0:39:58.160 --> 0:39:59.600
<v Speaker 4>traded one job for fifty.

0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 3>Two jobs, right.

0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:04.800
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's like you're still you know, I feel

0:40:04.840 --> 0:40:07.640
<v Speaker 4>like some days a bit of a mercenary because it's like, Okay, you.

0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:09.319
<v Speaker 3>Want to hire me to do what? Okay, Yeah, I

0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:11.560
<v Speaker 3>like it. Sure, let's go. You know what I'm saying.

0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:16.399
<v Speaker 4>So you it's just but you're just a little bit

0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:19.480
<v Speaker 4>more in control of what you do. But you know,

0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:22.359
<v Speaker 4>it is, the media business in general is hard. I mean,

0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:26.759
<v Speaker 4>it's just hard. And so I'm thankful that I've been

0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:32.839
<v Speaker 4>able to really turn this, you know, into something. But yeah,

0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:35.400
<v Speaker 4>there's certainly been days, especially with this strike that was

0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:37.640
<v Speaker 4>going on out here, where I was like, what did

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:39.880
<v Speaker 4>I do? You know?

0:40:40.160 --> 0:40:42.760
<v Speaker 3>So, but those days are few and far between.

0:40:42.880 --> 0:40:46.080
<v Speaker 2>I know that autonomy is freeing like no other, being

0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:47.920
<v Speaker 2>able to just make the decisions that you want to

0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:50.920
<v Speaker 2>make and before Rams just followed up with you. I

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:52.880
<v Speaker 2>said this really fast, and I don't want it to

0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:56.520
<v Speaker 2>seem small. Politics and above the fold. Those are new,

0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:58.440
<v Speaker 2>so a lot of our listeners will hear in those

0:40:58.560 --> 0:41:00.719
<v Speaker 2>terms for the first time. You tell us a little

0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:01.279
<v Speaker 2>bit about that.

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:04.200
<v Speaker 4>Sure, So, as you all see, I have a lot

0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:08.520
<v Speaker 4>of experience in the sports and political space, sports, political culture,

0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:12.080
<v Speaker 4>gender space. So I thought, in an election year, why

0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:16.279
<v Speaker 4>not start a political podcast. So I have a podcast

0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:22.279
<v Speaker 4>on iHeart and it is sports and politics, politics, and

0:41:22.320 --> 0:41:27.280
<v Speaker 4>so I think looking at politics, cultural issues, social issues

0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:30.960
<v Speaker 4>to the lens of sports is very helpful because sports

0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:32.640
<v Speaker 4>is one of the few things we actually do together.

0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:37.160
<v Speaker 4>We're a very segregated society by and large. But even

0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:40.640
<v Speaker 4>though Rams is not in this in terms of the sports.

0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:42.839
<v Speaker 1>I used to play football when I was in high

0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:44.319
<v Speaker 1>school and then I got into music.

0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:48.160
<v Speaker 4>But music has the same It has the same effect.

0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:52.960
<v Speaker 4>It's like, you know, it brings together people of different races, genders,

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.759
<v Speaker 4>social economic backgrounds, regions, all that. If you all are

0:41:56.840 --> 0:41:59.399
<v Speaker 4>Laker fans, you're all Laker fans, you're all Pistons fans,

0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:02.600
<v Speaker 4>you're all you know whatever. Same thing with musicians, you know,

0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:05.880
<v Speaker 4>you're all Michael Jackson fans like, right, And so because

0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:10.040
<v Speaker 4>of that, that lends itself to an opportunity to discuss

0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:15.040
<v Speaker 4>the political world through the lens of sports. So as

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 4>an example, you know, in terms of one of my episodes,

0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:21.839
<v Speaker 4>like a recent one I did, was about the state

0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.640
<v Speaker 4>of American basketball, which in a weird way, it's just

0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:26.440
<v Speaker 4>kind of immigration.

0:42:26.920 --> 0:42:27.160
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:31.600
<v Speaker 4>So on opening night in the NBA, there was a

0:42:31.640 --> 0:42:34.640
<v Speaker 4>record tying one hundred and seventy five international players on

0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:39.400
<v Speaker 4>NBA rosters and representing I believe it's something like forty

0:42:39.400 --> 0:42:42.440
<v Speaker 4>something countries might have been more countries than that, And

0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:45.680
<v Speaker 4>the last six NBA MVPs have all been foreign players.

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:49.400
<v Speaker 4>And there has been a lot of conversation at the

0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:53.439
<v Speaker 4>grassroots level and even reaching beyond all that about whether

0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:58.160
<v Speaker 4>or not development of you young basketball players in America,

0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:03.520
<v Speaker 4>how it's falling behind, and a lot of people that

0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:07.000
<v Speaker 4>are you know, really knee deep in the basketball world,

0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:09.759
<v Speaker 4>coaches whoever, they will say that they feel like the

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:13.120
<v Speaker 4>European system of development is much better now than it

0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:15.920
<v Speaker 4>is in the in in America. And I was caught

0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:20.839
<v Speaker 4>by I was sort of it caught my eye when

0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:23.600
<v Speaker 4>Gilbert Arena is the former NBA player when he said

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:26.120
<v Speaker 4>on his podcast, and Gilbert says a lot of wild stuff.

0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:28.799
<v Speaker 4>This is kind of on brand for him, where he said,

0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:31.600
<v Speaker 4>if they want the NBA ratings have not been good

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:33.479
<v Speaker 4>this season in particular, and.

0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:37.200
<v Speaker 3>So one of the things he said, and.

0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:40.120
<v Speaker 4>Last year's final was like the finals was like one

0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:42.440
<v Speaker 4>of the lowest rated finals they've ever had. He's like,

0:43:42.520 --> 0:43:44.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, if you they want to see more people

0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:47.280
<v Speaker 4>interested everyonet the game to come back, so to speak,

0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:50.319
<v Speaker 4>they need to kick out all the Europeans, right, And

0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:53.600
<v Speaker 4>he wasn't joking, and you know, and I made a

0:43:53.680 --> 0:43:55.960
<v Speaker 4>joke like so I was like, Gilbert supports mass deportation.

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:02.440
<v Speaker 4>But the whole point, though, is that there is this

0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:05.840
<v Speaker 4>sort of cultural divide that's happening with this. There's a

0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:11.440
<v Speaker 4>lot of coaches who frankly think the AAU system is

0:44:11.520 --> 0:44:13.239
<v Speaker 4>failing kids, you know, like.

0:44:14.719 --> 0:44:15.200
<v Speaker 3>These days.

0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:17.640
<v Speaker 4>I mean they've always said that about AU, and frankly,

0:44:17.680 --> 0:44:20.080
<v Speaker 4>I did consider a lot of the criticism before now

0:44:20.680 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 4>to be about the fact that it doesn't allow college

0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:25.880
<v Speaker 4>coaches to have as much control as they would like,

0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 4>because at the grassroots level, you have local folk that

0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:35.760
<v Speaker 4>are having these teams that you know, with these star players,

0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:37.640
<v Speaker 4>and they become access points.

0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:39.480
<v Speaker 3>So no, the college coach can't just show up in

0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:40.040
<v Speaker 3>the living room.

0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:41.879
<v Speaker 4>It's like you got to talk to somebody, You got

0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:43.400
<v Speaker 4>to talk to somebody's uncle, you got to you know,

0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:45.960
<v Speaker 4>there's a system there in place. A lot of college

0:44:45.960 --> 0:44:49.120
<v Speaker 4>coaches don't like that, and so I understood it from

0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:52.400
<v Speaker 4>that standpoint, kind of those earlier criticisms au, but the

0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:55.680
<v Speaker 4>criticisms now are different. This is about development. And what

0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:58.640
<v Speaker 4>people are noticing is that at these tournaments. Number one,

0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 4>they're quite expensive, and not just expensive for the people

0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:04.960
<v Speaker 4>in them, they're expensive for the people going to them.

0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:08.000
<v Speaker 4>Where you're charging for parking concept and it's like fifty

0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:11.120
<v Speaker 4>dollars the park. It's like, you know, just crazy amounts

0:45:11.120 --> 0:45:14.520
<v Speaker 4>of money being that you have to spend to do this.

0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:18.080
<v Speaker 4>And then they're playing a lot of games. And because

0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:20.920
<v Speaker 4>they're playing so many games, the winning isn't really important

0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:23.560
<v Speaker 4>because if you're playing four or five games game, four

0:45:23.640 --> 0:45:25.400
<v Speaker 4>or five games a day, what do you care if

0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:28.360
<v Speaker 4>you lose one or two? Right, and so these and

0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:31.440
<v Speaker 4>now that you have nil money, name, image and likeness,

0:45:31.440 --> 0:45:37.480
<v Speaker 4>money that you can make off, just that the money

0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:40.360
<v Speaker 4>has corrupted the system to the point where the development

0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:46.279
<v Speaker 4>is not the central idea. And so anyway, that's the

0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:49.160
<v Speaker 4>way to merge sports and politics. And one of the

0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:51.799
<v Speaker 4>people I talked to about this was Michelle Obama's brother,

0:45:51.880 --> 0:45:55.120
<v Speaker 4>Craig Robinson, and also Lavelle Molten, who is the head

0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:58.799
<v Speaker 4>coach of NC Central. So looking at things issues through

0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:03.160
<v Speaker 4>that lens, I think, you know, it allows people to

0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:07.320
<v Speaker 4>sort of critically think about it a little bit differently.

0:46:07.920 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 4>The episode as of this recording that's coming out this

0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:16.200
<v Speaker 4>week is about the.

0:46:14.719 --> 0:46:15.839
<v Speaker 3>Conflict in the Middle East.

0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:19.800
<v Speaker 4>Always the light stuff with me, and one of the

0:46:20.560 --> 0:46:24.600
<v Speaker 4>feature guests is if Dehaj Mohammad, who is the first

0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:27.319
<v Speaker 4>woman to compete in the Olympics in a Hjab, a

0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:32.439
<v Speaker 4>black Muslim woman who's great. She meddled and she has

0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:35.319
<v Speaker 4>been very vocal about her support for.

0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:37.279
<v Speaker 3>Palestine and it's cost her.

0:46:37.719 --> 0:46:41.280
<v Speaker 4>And there's been a lot of examples of athletes who

0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:46.399
<v Speaker 4>have expressed pro Palestinian group, pro Palestinian views, not by

0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:49.799
<v Speaker 4>the way anti Jewish views, I said, pro Palestinian, right,

0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:54.319
<v Speaker 4>So just because what's happening to Palestinian people is an

0:46:54.360 --> 0:47:01.640
<v Speaker 4>atrocity and it has been very damaging to their careers,

0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:04.480
<v Speaker 4>and so I just wanted to have this conversation.

0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:06.400
<v Speaker 3>It's like, why is this the topic?

0:47:06.960 --> 0:47:07.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean?

0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:09.200
<v Speaker 4>And as black people, we understand this. We know that

0:47:09.239 --> 0:47:12.000
<v Speaker 4>for a lot of people, pro black means anti white,

0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:16.960
<v Speaker 4>not what we're saying, right, they intentionally conflate that, and

0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:21.480
<v Speaker 4>it feels like this is some this is a byproduct

0:47:21.480 --> 0:47:23.160
<v Speaker 4>of that. This is like sort of the same thing,

0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:26.279
<v Speaker 4>just questioning is it a good idea that we are

0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:29.160
<v Speaker 4>sending so much money over to Israel that is going

0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:33.120
<v Speaker 4>towards bombing hospitals and schools and is it an idea?

0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:37.799
<v Speaker 4>You know, just raising that question creates a lot of issues.

0:47:38.440 --> 0:47:42.480
<v Speaker 4>And so I'm hoping through the lens of sports, uh,

0:47:43.320 --> 0:47:45.560
<v Speaker 4>because I have two scholars that are on their one

0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 4>is a both of which our jewishsue really give me

0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:53.720
<v Speaker 4>some great insight into what is a hundreds year old problem,

0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:57.400
<v Speaker 4>our hundred year old conflict. And so so yeah, like

0:47:57.520 --> 0:47:59.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm I'm hoping to use this podcast to do that.

0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:00.200
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:02.319
<v Speaker 4>Above the Fold is like sort of a that's on

0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:06.759
<v Speaker 4>True TV in the T and T Sports Family comes

0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:10.440
<v Speaker 4>on every Thursday, also streaming on Max, and that is

0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:13.600
<v Speaker 4>more of a nod to sort of traditional journalism. Uh,

0:48:14.200 --> 0:48:16.600
<v Speaker 4>the term above the fold is the old journalism term

0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:21.239
<v Speaker 4>when you you know, back when people physically got where

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:24.120
<v Speaker 4>people physically read the newspaper. All the stories that are

0:48:24.160 --> 0:48:26.560
<v Speaker 4>above the fold of the newspapers are considered the most

0:48:26.600 --> 0:48:31.400
<v Speaker 4>important stories. And so you know, it'll be a combination

0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:34.360
<v Speaker 4>of my commentary. I guess if I you know, I

0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:36.400
<v Speaker 4>had to do that. In Hollywood, we do the elevator

0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:38.640
<v Speaker 4>pitches where you have to tell it what something is like.

0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:43.359
<v Speaker 4>So this is uh, this is probably uh like real

0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:48.759
<v Speaker 4>sports meet sports reporters, and a little bit of Jim

0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:49.440
<v Speaker 4>Rome is burning.

0:48:50.080 --> 0:48:52.239
<v Speaker 1>So I want to I want to add something right

0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:55.640
<v Speaker 1>here from it, just because I think it's important for

0:48:55.680 --> 0:49:02.680
<v Speaker 1>our listeners to kind of understand that, you know, there's

0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:06.400
<v Speaker 1>even more to what you're saying when you talk about

0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:09.160
<v Speaker 1>and you mentioned it now you put it more succinctly

0:49:09.160 --> 0:49:14.239
<v Speaker 1>that people intentionally conflate pro black with anti white. There's

0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:18.960
<v Speaker 1>another level that a lot of our listeners may not

0:49:19.000 --> 0:49:20.840
<v Speaker 1>be aware of what we do specifically, Just so that

0:49:20.840 --> 0:49:23.280
<v Speaker 1>you're aware, we kind of work in the ally ship space.

0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:26.239
<v Speaker 1>We target hip hop stations. We try to because we

0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:28.680
<v Speaker 1>feel like there's the most potential.

0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:29.480
<v Speaker 2>To reach folks who.

0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Have a predisposition towards supporting black endeavors right, black people,

0:49:35.320 --> 0:49:41.080
<v Speaker 1>black communities, black music, and you know, to your point

0:49:41.080 --> 0:49:44.799
<v Speaker 1>about intentionally conflating it, that is one half of what

0:49:45.360 --> 0:49:48.360
<v Speaker 1>we're working against, I would say. The other half is

0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:58.040
<v Speaker 1>that people intentionally demonize what we do or muddle the waters.

0:49:58.400 --> 0:50:00.560
<v Speaker 1>And it occurred to me this might have been two

0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:05.080
<v Speaker 1>or three days ago that so you know, for a

0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:08.279
<v Speaker 1>lot of what you were talking about with you know,

0:50:08.400 --> 0:50:12.319
<v Speaker 1>the media blowback from your original tweet and then some

0:50:12.360 --> 0:50:14.080
<v Speaker 1>of the other things you were talking about. You mentioned

0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:17.839
<v Speaker 1>the Muslim woman Luthi job. You know, obviously we went

0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:21.520
<v Speaker 1>through that same thing that with that whole media moment,

0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the white Lives Matter moment, Kanye West stuff, So we

0:50:26.080 --> 0:50:29.520
<v Speaker 1>understand that firsthand exactly what that feels, how overwhelming that

0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:31.840
<v Speaker 1>could be, the death threats, you know, people targeting my children,

0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:32.760
<v Speaker 1>not that sort of stuff.

0:50:32.800 --> 0:50:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Like it was.

0:50:33.120 --> 0:50:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Bad when we said black lives matter. When we collectively

0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:45.200
<v Speaker 1>black people in this country said black lives matter, the

0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:50.799
<v Speaker 1>answer back was a collective all lives matter, right, And

0:50:50.840 --> 0:50:54.799
<v Speaker 1>that I believe to be a singularly an issue that

0:50:54.880 --> 0:50:59.920
<v Speaker 1>singularly happens to black people because a matter of months

0:51:00.040 --> 0:51:02.799
<v Speaker 1>after that, there was a movement which we supported and

0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:06.960
<v Speaker 1>still support, which said stop Asian hate. And to date,

0:51:07.040 --> 0:51:10.080
<v Speaker 1>I haven't heard anyone say stop all hate as a

0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:15.120
<v Speaker 1>response to that movement. And so, in addition to people

0:51:15.160 --> 0:51:20.719
<v Speaker 1>being like intentionally obtuse about black people affirming their humanity

0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:24.319
<v Speaker 1>and their right to exist and their right to pursue

0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:27.920
<v Speaker 1>the American dream or at least try to cultivate a

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:30.840
<v Speaker 1>relationship with this country that's a bit more equitable. You know,

0:51:30.920 --> 0:51:35.640
<v Speaker 1>that pushback always felt a little bit like it, and

0:51:35.760 --> 0:51:37.359
<v Speaker 1>you know that brings me to where we are now.

0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:43.600
<v Speaker 1>A lot of us have been dealing with the results

0:51:43.680 --> 0:51:48.400
<v Speaker 1>of the election of Donald Trump, and we're all looking

0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:52.840
<v Speaker 1>for answers, and we're all looking for a path forward,

0:51:53.840 --> 0:51:56.520
<v Speaker 1>and what we hear a lot from the highest tier is,

0:51:56.560 --> 0:51:58.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, keep fighting, and it's vague and it's you know,

0:51:58.719 --> 0:52:00.600
<v Speaker 1>it's just kind of and they're not saying nothing. I

0:52:00.640 --> 0:52:04.440
<v Speaker 1>don't want to be unkind to people who are their

0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 1>backs against want really don't have any more options with

0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.040
<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court, and as I famously say, a figure

0:52:10.040 --> 0:52:14.400
<v Speaker 1>four leg lock. But you know, as as a person

0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:17.360
<v Speaker 1>that I look to as you know, like a hero

0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:20.400
<v Speaker 1>tier activist, as a person that inspires me and inspires

0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:26.160
<v Speaker 1>this program. Maybe talk to us a bit about how

0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:28.720
<v Speaker 1>that felt. Maybe there's some some way that our listeners

0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:31.239
<v Speaker 1>can relate to you, because they certainly we've shared our

0:52:31.400 --> 0:52:35.080
<v Speaker 1>reaction initially. And then maybe if you can conceive of

0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:39.839
<v Speaker 1>what the next blah might look like, perhaps you.

0:52:39.800 --> 0:52:46.240
<v Speaker 4>Know, well, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned how

0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:49.640
<v Speaker 4>you all operate in a space of allyship to you,

0:52:49.680 --> 0:52:53.040
<v Speaker 4>try to because if there's going to be among the

0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:55.239
<v Speaker 4>biggest differences that people are going to see over the

0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:58.160
<v Speaker 4>next however long this term lasts, and I know people

0:52:58.200 --> 0:53:00.480
<v Speaker 4>are like, it's four years, are we sure we.

0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:00.960
<v Speaker 3>Don't know who?

0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:05.400
<v Speaker 4>We don't know that if we're taking the President elect's

0:53:05.480 --> 0:53:10.160
<v Speaker 4>words at face value. And that's what's going to be

0:53:10.200 --> 0:53:15.560
<v Speaker 4>different about this time is that black people have collectively

0:53:15.680 --> 0:53:18.080
<v Speaker 4>checked out in a way I don't think i've ever seen.

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:21.440
<v Speaker 4>You know, we've always been known as we should be

0:53:21.440 --> 0:53:23.600
<v Speaker 4>because there's so many reasons we shouldn't even be here

0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:28.080
<v Speaker 4>right now. We are resilient as hell, we have gone

0:53:28.120 --> 0:53:31.080
<v Speaker 4>through so much. And yes, there's definitely a sector of

0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:33.960
<v Speaker 4>black folks who are like, hey, We've been through a lot.

0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:37.440
<v Speaker 4>This can't be the worst thing, right, And that's true,

0:53:37.680 --> 0:53:42.040
<v Speaker 4>clearly historically that is true. But the difference is, I

0:53:42.040 --> 0:53:45.400
<v Speaker 4>think because we saw other groups of people that we

0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:50.400
<v Speaker 4>have collectively stood for fail in this moment and decide

0:53:50.640 --> 0:53:53.760
<v Speaker 4>that it was more proximity to whiteness was more important.

0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:57.640
<v Speaker 4>That's what we've checked out. We're like, oh, y'all got it,

0:53:58.440 --> 0:54:05.200
<v Speaker 4>y'all got it? Yeah, what are we trying to make

0:54:05.400 --> 0:54:06.920
<v Speaker 4>this umbrella movement work for?

0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:09.960
<v Speaker 3>Y'all got it? And I know it wasn't everybody.

0:54:10.280 --> 0:54:13.120
<v Speaker 4>I know it wasn't the majority, but like just in talking,

0:54:14.120 --> 0:54:16.240
<v Speaker 4>you know, just in group chats and talking with my friends,

0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:19.680
<v Speaker 4>they were really they really felt betrayed by saying the

0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:23.279
<v Speaker 4>number of Latino voters vote for Donald Trump was betrayed.

0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:29.480
<v Speaker 4>And because and it was the comedian and actor as Simona.

0:54:29.680 --> 0:54:31.680
<v Speaker 4>She told me this a couple of years ago, and

0:54:31.800 --> 0:54:34.279
<v Speaker 4>it always stuck with me. He said, listen, don't make

0:54:34.360 --> 0:54:37.279
<v Speaker 4>any mistake about it. He said, all the rest of

0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:41.799
<v Speaker 4>us that are now feeling empowered to speak about our

0:54:43.440 --> 0:54:46.120
<v Speaker 4>rights and you know, to go forward with any kind

0:54:46.120 --> 0:54:49.320
<v Speaker 4>of movement building, we were just seed on the email

0:54:49.560 --> 0:54:53.480
<v Speaker 4>that black people wrote okay, and he like him no,

0:54:53.640 --> 0:54:55.680
<v Speaker 4>he broke it down and he was just like, we

0:54:55.880 --> 0:54:58.839
<v Speaker 4>just got se seed. And it's true because like when

0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:01.640
<v Speaker 4>you go back and look at the Civil Rights Act,

0:55:01.920 --> 0:55:03.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, one of the main components of that Act

0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:08.080
<v Speaker 4>was immigration. Okay, that was one of the main components

0:55:08.360 --> 0:55:12.120
<v Speaker 4>of when that got passed because America had a very restrictive,

0:55:12.880 --> 0:55:16.520
<v Speaker 4>targeted immigration policy where they did not want certain.

0:55:16.280 --> 0:55:17.520
<v Speaker 3>Groups of people in this country.

0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:21.160
<v Speaker 4>And Martin Luther King and all of them fought for

0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:24.560
<v Speaker 4>that to be different. And so to see that in

0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:28.040
<v Speaker 4>real time, like hold up, So in this moment where

0:55:28.080 --> 0:55:31.920
<v Speaker 4>we need a collective brother and sisterhood, y'all are like,

0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:34.920
<v Speaker 4>you know what we value the proximity to whiteness.

0:55:35.480 --> 0:55:36.960
<v Speaker 3>Black people are not going.

0:55:36.760 --> 0:55:38.560
<v Speaker 4>To I think black people are going to be a

0:55:38.600 --> 0:55:43.719
<v Speaker 4>lot more strategic and a lot more choosy about the

0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:46.120
<v Speaker 4>things they decide to get involved with.

0:55:46.360 --> 0:55:50.879
<v Speaker 3>The next however long forty years, you know, I think

0:55:50.880 --> 0:55:51.200
<v Speaker 3>it is.

0:55:51.680 --> 0:55:55.600
<v Speaker 4>I think it caused it created such a rift that

0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:58.719
<v Speaker 4>I haven't really seen this before and I understand where

0:55:58.760 --> 0:56:01.720
<v Speaker 4>it comes from. So that's gonna be a lot different.

0:56:02.000 --> 0:56:04.080
<v Speaker 4>The allyship is not gonna look the same. You know

0:56:04.120 --> 0:56:07.839
<v Speaker 4>that moment and George Floyd when all the protests were

0:56:07.840 --> 0:56:10.400
<v Speaker 4>happening after his murder, where you did see a wide

0:56:10.440 --> 0:56:14.080
<v Speaker 4>collection of people who were out there protesting. I don't

0:56:14.080 --> 0:56:16.200
<v Speaker 4>know that we're going to see that for a long time,

0:56:18.040 --> 0:56:20.520
<v Speaker 4>and I don't I think Black people are going to

0:56:20.560 --> 0:56:25.080
<v Speaker 4>be a lot more They're gonna be a lot more

0:56:25.120 --> 0:56:28.560
<v Speaker 4>precious about who they allow into our movements, and so

0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:31.920
<v Speaker 4>I see that as being a byproduct of it. And

0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:34.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, it can be debatable whether that's good or bad.

0:56:34.200 --> 0:56:36.440
<v Speaker 4>So that'll be one thing and the other thing I

0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:38.920
<v Speaker 4>think about the selection, which I must say, I was

0:56:38.920 --> 0:56:41.440
<v Speaker 4>not surprised by the outcome in the slightest I actually

0:56:41.880 --> 0:56:45.400
<v Speaker 4>predicted this would happen because the groups of people that

0:56:45.440 --> 0:56:50.160
<v Speaker 4>it would required to frankly fight for a different direction

0:56:50.239 --> 0:56:52.040
<v Speaker 4>for this country. I knew they were not going to

0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:56.600
<v Speaker 4>show up. And the Latino vote, the numbers of it

0:56:56.640 --> 0:57:02.600
<v Speaker 4>surprised me. But when people we're saying that white women

0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:05.239
<v Speaker 4>were gonna show up and vote differently than they have,

0:57:06.360 --> 0:57:09.320
<v Speaker 4>I was like, have y'all not looked at the voting

0:57:09.360 --> 0:57:12.680
<v Speaker 4>trends the last sixty years? And so as people are

0:57:12.680 --> 0:57:15.719
<v Speaker 4>doing these numerous autopsies trying to figure out where the

0:57:15.719 --> 0:57:19.120
<v Speaker 4>Democrats went wrong, and they by not perfect by any means,

0:57:19.120 --> 0:57:21.480
<v Speaker 4>and there were certainly campaign mistakes that were made, his

0:57:21.800 --> 0:57:23.040
<v Speaker 4>mistakes made in every campaign.

0:57:23.120 --> 0:57:23.600
<v Speaker 3>It happens.

0:57:24.920 --> 0:57:27.640
<v Speaker 4>But the thing is when people want to bring up,

0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.000
<v Speaker 4>oh they lost the working class voter, Oh they lost

0:57:30.000 --> 0:57:31.920
<v Speaker 4>this kind of voter. They don't appeal to this kind

0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:34.600
<v Speaker 4>of voter anymore. How come that don't work with black people?

0:57:35.600 --> 0:57:38.560
<v Speaker 4>How come black people are working class? Black people live

0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:41.640
<v Speaker 4>in rural communities, black people check all them boxes that

0:57:41.680 --> 0:57:44.440
<v Speaker 4>they said they lost, So how did they not lose.

0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:46.000
<v Speaker 3>Us but they lost everybody else.

0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:49.520
<v Speaker 4>That's what I'm trying to figure out, because it can't

0:57:49.560 --> 0:57:54.760
<v Speaker 4>be that. To me, it is avoiding the obvious. There's

0:57:54.800 --> 0:57:58.520
<v Speaker 4>a reason Donald Trump has beaten two women, and you

0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:00.800
<v Speaker 4>want me to believe this is the other thing I

0:58:00.840 --> 0:58:04.320
<v Speaker 4>couldn't believe. It's like, you want me to believe that

0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:07.000
<v Speaker 4>more white women gonna showup for Kambla Harrison, Hillary Clinton,

0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:07.680
<v Speaker 4>who is.

0:58:07.640 --> 0:58:08.240
<v Speaker 3>A white woman.

0:58:09.280 --> 0:58:13.160
<v Speaker 4>I mean, like they didn't, and more white women voting

0:58:13.200 --> 0:58:16.000
<v Speaker 4>for Trump this second time. So I'm just like, no,

0:58:16.160 --> 0:58:20.360
<v Speaker 4>they're not gonna show up because, as they have shown historically,

0:58:21.520 --> 0:58:25.360
<v Speaker 4>white women the eligible voting white women who so I'm

0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:31.440
<v Speaker 4>talking about that fifty seven percent that voted for Donald Trump.

0:58:32.160 --> 0:58:36.760
<v Speaker 4>Is like, the privilege of whiteness means more than gender,

0:58:37.840 --> 0:58:39.200
<v Speaker 4>and that is the reality.

0:58:39.440 --> 0:58:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Jamel I said that this morning.

0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:44.880
<v Speaker 1>He said on the show, all constant, those.

0:58:44.640 --> 0:58:50.080
<v Speaker 2>That benefit from the misogynist, patriarchal, capitalist, white supremacist system

0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:53.400
<v Speaker 2>are not just white men. So all those people that

0:58:53.440 --> 0:58:55.960
<v Speaker 2>benefit from that system stand up and fight for it.

0:58:56.000 --> 0:59:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Even immigrants, even Latino immigrants, first generation who just got here,

0:59:00.320 --> 0:59:04.520
<v Speaker 2>who may have just gotten naturalized. They're very, very proud

0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:08.280
<v Speaker 2>to be American, correct, and they now see themselves as

0:59:08.320 --> 0:59:10.200
<v Speaker 2>a part of the system that they have to defend.

0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:14.400
<v Speaker 4>They do and they you know, the one thing that

0:59:14.480 --> 0:59:19.320
<v Speaker 4>everybody understands that comes to this country, even other black

0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:22.960
<v Speaker 4>people from different countries, is that they need to separate

0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:25.520
<v Speaker 4>themselves as fast as possible from Black Americans.

0:59:25.720 --> 0:59:26.920
<v Speaker 3>They all understand this.

0:59:27.280 --> 0:59:31.360
<v Speaker 4>It is like it's like they get a blueprint or

0:59:31.400 --> 0:59:33.120
<v Speaker 4>a guidebook when they come here, and in the guy

0:59:33.160 --> 0:59:35.200
<v Speaker 4>book there's a saturate literally, oh by the way, you

0:59:35.200 --> 0:59:36.160
<v Speaker 4>got to be anti black.

0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Apes in the pamphlet.

0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:38.040
<v Speaker 3>It's in the pamphlet.

0:59:38.440 --> 0:59:45.120
<v Speaker 4>It's like so you know, having interesting conversations with you know,

0:59:45.960 --> 0:59:49.840
<v Speaker 4>with other Latinos. The interesting part to me is that

0:59:49.880 --> 0:59:51.320
<v Speaker 4>the ones that like a lot of the ones that

0:59:51.360 --> 0:59:54.080
<v Speaker 4>were born here, not everybody certainly, so I'm speaking in

0:59:54.120 --> 0:59:58.200
<v Speaker 4>sort of a rough generality, is that a lot of

0:59:58.280 --> 1:00:02.160
<v Speaker 4>them don't speak Spanish. And that's by design because you know,

1:00:02.200 --> 1:00:04.200
<v Speaker 4>as some of them have told me, is that you

1:00:04.200 --> 1:00:05.120
<v Speaker 4>know they are boilers.

1:00:05.120 --> 1:00:05.720
<v Speaker 3>They are boilers.

1:00:05.760 --> 1:00:09.520
<v Speaker 4>They did not want them to speak Spanish because they

1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:12.919
<v Speaker 4>didn't want that to be something to be used against them.

1:00:13.360 --> 1:00:16.680
<v Speaker 4>And that says a lot about how they perceive what

1:00:16.760 --> 1:00:20.800
<v Speaker 4>it means to be American and who they think is American.

1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:24.080
<v Speaker 4>And we've seen this happen historically. It's the reason why

1:00:24.800 --> 1:00:28.160
<v Speaker 4>it's no longer Irish Americans Italian Americans. And yes, we

1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:30.200
<v Speaker 4>know we have enclaves in this country where there are

1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:34.919
<v Speaker 4>Irish neighborhoods and Italian neighborhoods, but they traded in being

1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:39.040
<v Speaker 4>separated for the whiteness, right, and this is what it is.

1:00:39.360 --> 1:00:42.680
<v Speaker 4>It's like every group has gone through that. We're the only.

1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Group that can't. We can't do it.

1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:48.520
<v Speaker 1>A brief history lesson right here. I believe we shared

1:00:48.520 --> 1:00:50.240
<v Speaker 1>this on the show, So I'll give the cliff Stones version.

1:00:50.640 --> 1:00:53.960
<v Speaker 1>But the term black was created and I believe the

1:00:54.000 --> 1:00:58.040
<v Speaker 1>fifteen hundreds, sometime around then. No, sorry, the term white

1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:02.040
<v Speaker 1>was created around the fifteen hundred to delineate the non

1:01:02.160 --> 1:01:04.800
<v Speaker 1>slave class from the slave class. And prior to that,

1:01:05.040 --> 1:01:09.040
<v Speaker 1>to your point, there were Frenchmen and Irishmen and Scandinavian

1:01:09.040 --> 1:01:12.440
<v Speaker 1>people and so forth, and they were separated by countries.

1:01:12.800 --> 1:01:16.280
<v Speaker 1>But in order to again delineate the slave class, the

1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:19.040
<v Speaker 1>term white came about. So that meant that you were

1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:22.560
<v Speaker 1>not a slave, and black came about to suggest that

1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:24.680
<v Speaker 1>you were a slaver or at least a member of

1:01:24.800 --> 1:01:26.959
<v Speaker 1>the slave class. And that was tended to be into

1:01:27.000 --> 1:01:30.520
<v Speaker 1>perpetuity in that term in the fifteen hundred. Think how

1:01:30.560 --> 1:01:32.920
<v Speaker 1>long human beings have been around that term originating in

1:01:32.920 --> 1:01:35.800
<v Speaker 1>the fifteen hundred. It still has ripple effects today, I think,

1:01:35.840 --> 1:01:38.560
<v Speaker 1>to your point, you know, maybe Donald Trump doesn't stay

1:01:38.560 --> 1:01:40.520
<v Speaker 1>president for four years, maybe he dies tomorrow.

1:01:40.520 --> 1:01:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1:01:40.920 --> 1:01:45.400
<v Speaker 1>People can imagine all kinds of crazy stuff, right, Hope,

1:01:45.440 --> 1:01:49.560
<v Speaker 1>that's not crazy. You know, anything could happen, right, But

1:01:49.800 --> 1:01:55.640
<v Speaker 1>the ripple effects, like the term white, the ripple effects

1:01:55.640 --> 1:01:59.840
<v Speaker 1>of a Donald Trump presidency might echo into well and

1:02:00.120 --> 1:02:03.160
<v Speaker 1>to you know, our lifetimes of our kids graand.

1:02:03.120 --> 1:02:06.840
<v Speaker 4>I mean, we're still paying for paying for things Ronald

1:02:06.880 --> 1:02:10.400
<v Speaker 4>Reagan did, thank you, We're still so yes, the the

1:02:10.400 --> 1:02:14.280
<v Speaker 4>the legacies and presidents, you typically aren't able to assess

1:02:14.320 --> 1:02:16.040
<v Speaker 4>it in the four or eight years there in office.

1:02:16.240 --> 1:02:19.320
<v Speaker 4>You don't really see the damage of it until well

1:02:19.360 --> 1:02:21.320
<v Speaker 4>after the fact. I mean I bring this up all

1:02:21.360 --> 1:02:23.520
<v Speaker 4>the time with Ronald Reagan. He's the reason why college

1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:26.720
<v Speaker 4>tuition is what it is because they saw a liberal

1:02:26.760 --> 1:02:30.480
<v Speaker 4>movement here in California. They did not like the thought

1:02:30.520 --> 1:02:33.440
<v Speaker 4>it was breeding hippies and marijuana users and people who

1:02:33.440 --> 1:02:35.400
<v Speaker 4>are anti war and oh, by the boy, the people

1:02:35.400 --> 1:02:37.520
<v Speaker 4>who are against the Vietnam War all turned out to

1:02:37.520 --> 1:02:41.080
<v Speaker 4>be right, but they didn't like that, and so he

1:02:41.120 --> 1:02:46.080
<v Speaker 4>pulled the funding from colleges and that became the model that.

1:02:46.040 --> 1:02:46.919
<v Speaker 3>Everybody else did.

1:02:47.080 --> 1:02:51.200
<v Speaker 4>Like absolutely, Well, that's why education at every level is

1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:53.360
<v Speaker 4>under as you.

1:02:53.320 --> 1:02:56.160
<v Speaker 1>Know, we know here and we're used to it, so

1:02:56.200 --> 1:02:58.840
<v Speaker 1>we can't even conceive the time when college was affordable.

1:02:58.920 --> 1:03:02.040
<v Speaker 4>No, because college used to be basically free, like it didn't,

1:03:02.160 --> 1:03:05.720
<v Speaker 4>you know, in every state, and they wanted to change

1:03:05.720 --> 1:03:09.680
<v Speaker 4>that because also one of his main advisors, didn't like

1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:14.760
<v Speaker 4>the fact that education actually bred more equality. They were

1:03:14.760 --> 1:03:18.000
<v Speaker 4>trying to stop the accessibility to college because they only

1:03:18.040 --> 1:03:21.040
<v Speaker 4>wanted a college system where only certain people could afford

1:03:21.080 --> 1:03:21.600
<v Speaker 4>to go there.

1:03:21.760 --> 1:03:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Definitely didn't want a Jamail Hill to.

1:03:23.640 --> 1:03:25.720
<v Speaker 3>Go to college, you know, anyone.

1:03:25.800 --> 1:03:29.720
<v Speaker 4>Idiots just think he got an education. So it's like, yes,

1:03:29.800 --> 1:03:32.160
<v Speaker 4>you still wind up paying for it. So we have

1:03:32.200 --> 1:03:33.880
<v Speaker 4>to look at the fact that Donald Trump would likely

1:03:33.880 --> 1:03:38.640
<v Speaker 4>get two more Supreme Court appointments, and there's gonna be

1:03:38.680 --> 1:03:42.440
<v Speaker 4>a whole lot more judges and all these other things.

1:03:42.440 --> 1:03:44.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean, as it was, we're still trying to deal

1:03:44.800 --> 1:03:46.960
<v Speaker 4>with the remnants of its first presidency, right, So a

1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:51.040
<v Speaker 4>second one where I think he's probably more politically savvy,

1:03:51.920 --> 1:03:56.240
<v Speaker 4>he's gonna have more loyalists. We now have Elon Musk

1:03:56.280 --> 1:04:00.280
<v Speaker 4>as the first Lady. There will be I know claim

1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:03.560
<v Speaker 4>that as an original dog. That was Stephen Kig, the

1:04:03.600 --> 1:04:06.160
<v Speaker 4>author he got banned from x fort calling him the

1:04:06.200 --> 1:04:10.240
<v Speaker 4>first leg That's incredible, shouted out to Stephen king That

1:04:10.400 --> 1:04:12.560
<v Speaker 4>was I was like, ever since he said that, I

1:04:12.600 --> 1:04:16.600
<v Speaker 4>have been calling him the first lady because yeah, I.

1:04:16.480 --> 1:04:18.880
<v Speaker 3>Mean, you you put a billionaire.

1:04:18.440 --> 1:04:22.640
<v Speaker 4>Oligarch in charge of slashing the government in America.

1:04:22.680 --> 1:04:24.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, when did he growing up?

1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:25.000
<v Speaker 4>Like?

1:04:25.040 --> 1:04:28.600
<v Speaker 3>What what gives him the okay? So uh?

1:04:29.080 --> 1:04:32.360
<v Speaker 2>An immigrant South Africa's of all places? An immigrant in charge?

1:04:32.480 --> 1:04:35.360
<v Speaker 4>Yes, an immigrant in charge South Africa from a part

1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:39.520
<v Speaker 4>how South Africa exactly grew up steeped in that and

1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:42.400
<v Speaker 4>you could tell by his perspective that's the case. I wish,

1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:44.479
<v Speaker 4>for the love of God, black people please stop buying

1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:45.280
<v Speaker 4>that cyber truck.

1:04:45.400 --> 1:04:47.520
<v Speaker 3>Please please please stop buying it.

1:04:47.760 --> 1:04:50.240
<v Speaker 4>Fight it, trust me, there's plenty of other boxing, ugly

1:04:50.280 --> 1:04:52.240
<v Speaker 4>truck to get it. Ain't got to be that way,

1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:57.360
<v Speaker 4>all right, But so yeah, I think black people as

1:04:57.360 --> 1:05:00.520
<v Speaker 4>a whole sense, we're regrouping right now. We're trying to

1:05:00.520 --> 1:05:04.800
<v Speaker 4>figure out because America has decided whether people want to

1:05:05.360 --> 1:05:08.160
<v Speaker 4>really acknowledge this or not. They've already decided the type

1:05:08.160 --> 1:05:10.280
<v Speaker 4>of country they want to be. That what was on

1:05:10.320 --> 1:05:12.800
<v Speaker 4>the ballot that's been on the ballot the last two elections,

1:05:12.840 --> 1:05:16.880
<v Speaker 4>really and they made a decision. Okay, since we all

1:05:16.920 --> 1:05:19.440
<v Speaker 4>know the decision that was made, we're trying to figure out,

1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:22.120
<v Speaker 4>as we often have, our best way to survive within

1:05:22.200 --> 1:05:23.360
<v Speaker 4>their decisions.

1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:26.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and so I do.

1:05:26.600 --> 1:05:28.919
<v Speaker 4>I don't think people were going to necessarily give up

1:05:29.160 --> 1:05:33.560
<v Speaker 4>the fight, but I think a lot a lot of

1:05:33.560 --> 1:05:35.760
<v Speaker 4>black folks feel real defeated right now and feel like

1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:39.040
<v Speaker 4>we need to regroup and frankly, the only to maybe

1:05:39.120 --> 1:05:42.520
<v Speaker 4>focus more on our community and no one else's.

1:05:44.280 --> 1:05:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to keep you forever, but I and

1:05:47.120 --> 1:05:50.080
<v Speaker 2>I also don't want this to be dooming gloom. But

1:05:50.200 --> 1:05:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I brought up Uphill before reading that book was a journey.

1:05:53.960 --> 1:05:57.840
<v Speaker 2>For people who haven't read that book, get it, believe

1:05:57.840 --> 1:06:01.080
<v Speaker 2>it or not. Life for Jamail Hill was not silver spoons.

1:06:02.080 --> 1:06:04.600
<v Speaker 2>And coming from where we come from, there's a unique

1:06:04.600 --> 1:06:06.560
<v Speaker 2>thing about growing up in Detroit. We got to see

1:06:06.600 --> 1:06:11.120
<v Speaker 2>black leadership, black political leadership, black police officers that were

1:06:11.160 --> 1:06:14.600
<v Speaker 2>not violent to us, black teachers, Black like Detroit very

1:06:14.680 --> 1:06:17.920
<v Speaker 2>very black for us, and our experience, especially in Northwest

1:06:17.920 --> 1:06:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Detroit in the hallways of Mumford High School, we also

1:06:20.680 --> 1:06:26.480
<v Speaker 2>got to see black greatness. I bring up Uphill because again,

1:06:26.600 --> 1:06:28.920
<v Speaker 2>this was not silver Spoons. You didn't have this laid

1:06:28.920 --> 1:06:33.240
<v Speaker 2>out easy path a black woman in this country and

1:06:33.280 --> 1:06:35.640
<v Speaker 2>black women on this planet. Ramses and I we might

1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:37.680
<v Speaker 2>be famous for this because we say it every time

1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:40.480
<v Speaker 2>a microphone is on. We spoke to the National Council

1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:43.280
<v Speaker 2>of Negro Women, We said, two thousands of women, reminding

1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:45.720
<v Speaker 2>them the closest thing on this earth to God is

1:06:45.760 --> 1:06:48.720
<v Speaker 2>the black woman, and we believe that to our bones.

1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:54.120
<v Speaker 2>So your journey as a black woman getting to where

1:06:54.160 --> 1:06:57.160
<v Speaker 2>you've gotten in your career would not be an easy

1:06:57.160 --> 1:07:01.960
<v Speaker 2>climb for anyone a male dominated, white, male dominated industry.

1:07:02.320 --> 1:07:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Where you have climbed to what many would say the pinnacle,

1:07:05.360 --> 1:07:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and again I'm not being hyperbolic, the six PM Sports Center,

1:07:09.080 --> 1:07:12.280
<v Speaker 2>as she said, the flagship of sports media journalism like

1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:16.560
<v Speaker 2>that was it to get there? Took a lot to

1:07:16.680 --> 1:07:21.120
<v Speaker 2>now have forged your own media imprint to now be

1:07:21.320 --> 1:07:24.720
<v Speaker 2>the captain and curator of all that you do. You

1:07:24.760 --> 1:07:27.200
<v Speaker 2>spoke about the free press. We talk about what we

1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:29.560
<v Speaker 2>collectively do for a living. And again I don't want

1:07:29.560 --> 1:07:32.080
<v Speaker 2>to be doing in gloom. But in the wake of

1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:36.760
<v Speaker 2>this election, can we still do our jobs? Can this

1:07:36.880 --> 1:07:39.520
<v Speaker 2>industry that we thrive in and that we feed our

1:07:39.560 --> 1:07:42.680
<v Speaker 2>families with, does it go away? Is it illegal for

1:07:42.760 --> 1:07:45.240
<v Speaker 2>us to talk? How we talk two months from now?

1:07:46.520 --> 1:07:48.320
<v Speaker 2>What is your thoughts on what this is going to

1:07:48.360 --> 1:07:51.760
<v Speaker 2>look like for all of us after January twenty twenty five.

1:07:52.480 --> 1:07:56.280
<v Speaker 4>Those are very real and grave concerns because part of

1:07:56.320 --> 1:08:00.880
<v Speaker 4>the reason we're in this is because the media, the

1:08:00.920 --> 1:08:02.600
<v Speaker 4>media that journalism didn't do what.

1:08:02.560 --> 1:08:03.400
<v Speaker 3>It was supposed to do.

1:08:03.960 --> 1:08:06.720
<v Speaker 4>And this is not just in regards to Trump, but

1:08:06.800 --> 1:08:10.040
<v Speaker 4>it's just the fact that the whole mission of being

1:08:10.080 --> 1:08:13.760
<v Speaker 4>a journalist is to be a disruptor. You're not supposed

1:08:13.800 --> 1:08:16.120
<v Speaker 4>to go along with the system. You know, there's a

1:08:16.160 --> 1:08:19.800
<v Speaker 4>phrase that I learned as a young journalist that remains true.

1:08:20.000 --> 1:08:23.519
<v Speaker 4>Our job is to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.

1:08:24.000 --> 1:08:27.400
<v Speaker 4>That's the whole point, right, and so we're there to

1:08:27.479 --> 1:08:31.519
<v Speaker 4>be the watchdogs to provide the check of power. And

1:08:31.560 --> 1:08:35.720
<v Speaker 4>seeing us in this moment already capitulating to what we're

1:08:35.760 --> 1:08:41.840
<v Speaker 4>supposed to be examining, putting under scrutiny, discussing, telling people

1:08:41.880 --> 1:08:44.479
<v Speaker 4>what's really going on. To see us capitulating to that

1:08:45.360 --> 1:08:49.320
<v Speaker 4>is heartbreaking. I chose to be a journales even though

1:08:49.320 --> 1:08:52.880
<v Speaker 4>I chose sports, I chose it for that reason. I mean, yes,

1:08:52.920 --> 1:08:56.640
<v Speaker 4>it's about telling stories about athletes and winning and being inspired,

1:08:57.080 --> 1:09:01.120
<v Speaker 4>but it's also about understanding how systems work. They don't

1:09:01.120 --> 1:09:04.920
<v Speaker 4>work any differently in sports, you know, and so holding

1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:11.280
<v Speaker 4>those systems in accountable. And my fear is that because

1:09:11.880 --> 1:09:16.360
<v Speaker 4>the president elect has in particular singled out media, as

1:09:16.960 --> 1:09:21.960
<v Speaker 4>his words, enemies of the state, that's going to make

1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:25.320
<v Speaker 4>some of the platforms that some of us work for

1:09:26.400 --> 1:09:27.639
<v Speaker 4>capitulate to the power.

1:09:28.080 --> 1:09:29.760
<v Speaker 3>See when you study.

1:09:30.120 --> 1:09:34.479
<v Speaker 4>The Nazi regime and you study how because a lot

1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:38.200
<v Speaker 4>of people ask this question when these regimes, these dictators

1:09:38.280 --> 1:09:40.720
<v Speaker 4>rise up, like what are the people doing? Like why

1:09:40.720 --> 1:09:43.080
<v Speaker 4>did they give in? Like what happened is death by

1:09:43.120 --> 1:09:46.559
<v Speaker 4>a thousand paper cuts. It's not one failed blow. It's

1:09:46.600 --> 1:09:51.639
<v Speaker 4>always little capitulations that happen that when you look up,

1:09:52.680 --> 1:09:56.280
<v Speaker 4>you find that all the things you were worried and

1:09:56.320 --> 1:10:00.160
<v Speaker 4>feared already happened. This is why voter apathy is so

1:10:01.320 --> 1:10:07.759
<v Speaker 4>it's so significant and very problematic. Just because the election

1:10:07.840 --> 1:10:12.000
<v Speaker 4>that just happened, half of this country didn't vote. So

1:10:12.760 --> 1:10:17.040
<v Speaker 4>that's telling you that it is very terrifying. So half

1:10:17.080 --> 1:10:20.000
<v Speaker 4>of the people in this country don't find a reason

1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:25.160
<v Speaker 4>to remain engaged in a system that affects everything they do.

1:10:26.160 --> 1:10:30.719
<v Speaker 4>And so I blame the media for not being great

1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:33.000
<v Speaker 4>at telling people what was at stake, not helping them

1:10:33.120 --> 1:10:37.439
<v Speaker 4>understand what exactly it is we're supposed to be doing.

1:10:37.800 --> 1:10:42.120
<v Speaker 4>And what I see already is media companies already switching up,

1:10:42.920 --> 1:10:45.120
<v Speaker 4>already doing it, and they haven't even been asked to

1:10:45.120 --> 1:10:49.080
<v Speaker 4>do it. And that is very frightening, because no, it's

1:10:49.120 --> 1:10:50.800
<v Speaker 4>not just media, it's going to be everything. I mean,

1:10:50.840 --> 1:10:55.479
<v Speaker 4>we see Walmart, Yeah, I mean so which only And

1:10:55.560 --> 1:10:58.519
<v Speaker 4>I said this when the Black Squares and twenty twenty

1:10:58.600 --> 1:11:02.160
<v Speaker 4>was here. I said this, then said, you know, that's great,

1:11:03.160 --> 1:11:08.120
<v Speaker 4>but now and standing up for standing against racial oppression

1:11:08.240 --> 1:11:11.559
<v Speaker 4>and police brutality and standing up for black people actually

1:11:11.600 --> 1:11:14.960
<v Speaker 4>doesn't matter in this moment. When it matters is when

1:11:14.960 --> 1:11:18.759
<v Speaker 4>you have something to lose. See, if the whole world

1:11:18.840 --> 1:11:21.200
<v Speaker 4>and the whole nation is agreen that what happened to

1:11:21.240 --> 1:11:24.840
<v Speaker 4>George Floyd was murdering is bad, I'm glad we could

1:11:24.840 --> 1:11:30.479
<v Speaker 4>agree on that, But there's no risk in saying I'm

1:11:30.520 --> 1:11:33.240
<v Speaker 4>gonna you know, black Lives Matter twenty twenty, it was

1:11:33.280 --> 1:11:37.800
<v Speaker 4>a cussword though in twenty fifteen when it was Michael Brown, right,

1:11:37.880 --> 1:11:40.000
<v Speaker 4>it was a cuss word then, and then fast forward

1:11:40.120 --> 1:11:41.200
<v Speaker 4>it was like, oh, no.

1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:43.559
<v Speaker 3>Black lives matter. You got the NFL commissioner saying it.

1:11:44.080 --> 1:11:47.120
<v Speaker 4>You can't say that it's still exile a player who

1:11:47.240 --> 1:11:49.679
<v Speaker 4>stood up against the things that you claim you support.

1:11:49.720 --> 1:11:52.240
<v Speaker 4>Now that means your support is only going to go

1:11:52.320 --> 1:11:54.920
<v Speaker 4>with what's trendy. And so right now, black people ain't

1:11:54.920 --> 1:11:58.799
<v Speaker 4>in We're not trending anymore. Supporting us rather is not trendy.

1:11:59.080 --> 1:12:01.400
<v Speaker 4>So you see not just them, but a ton of

1:12:01.400 --> 1:12:05.000
<v Speaker 4>different companies that all of a sudden announced that they

1:12:05.000 --> 1:12:09.519
<v Speaker 4>were rolling back DII initiatives, which means y'all didn't believe in.

1:12:09.520 --> 1:12:12.040
<v Speaker 3>It to begin with. Thank you, You didn't believe in it.

1:12:12.080 --> 1:12:14.240
<v Speaker 4>You were just doing it cosmetically, you were just doing

1:12:14.280 --> 1:12:16.080
<v Speaker 4>it because you wanted to look good. You were doing

1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:18.280
<v Speaker 4>it for the press release and not for anything that mattered.

1:12:18.680 --> 1:12:21.200
<v Speaker 1>I think that's why a part of the reason why

1:12:22.560 --> 1:12:26.759
<v Speaker 1>this second election of Donald Trump was so hurtful, because

1:12:26.800 --> 1:12:31.080
<v Speaker 1>the ripple effect of it exposes just how vulnerable we've

1:12:31.080 --> 1:12:34.080
<v Speaker 1>been and just who our fair weather friends have been.

1:12:34.680 --> 1:12:39.200
<v Speaker 1>And some people live in food deserts where the only

1:12:39.240 --> 1:12:41.559
<v Speaker 1>place where they can get food is a dollar tree,

1:12:41.640 --> 1:12:44.720
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of people live in environments where the

1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:47.639
<v Speaker 1>only employer is a place like a Walmart. And then

1:12:47.760 --> 1:12:50.920
<v Speaker 1>now that Trump effect that the country chose him again,

1:12:51.520 --> 1:12:54.280
<v Speaker 1>and it gives those fair weather friends license to roll

1:12:54.320 --> 1:12:57.400
<v Speaker 1>back what it was that we thought was progressed, what

1:12:57.439 --> 1:13:00.439
<v Speaker 1>we thought was protections. How it feels to be a

1:13:00.479 --> 1:13:06.840
<v Speaker 1>black person on the ground. It's fundamentally different forever because

1:13:06.840 --> 1:13:07.120
<v Speaker 1>of that.

1:13:07.240 --> 1:13:09.880
<v Speaker 4>And that's I think, No, that is the that's the

1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:13.320
<v Speaker 4>gut punch is that, you know, because the twenty twenty election,

1:13:14.400 --> 1:13:17.559
<v Speaker 4>because that happened the same year of George Floyd, I

1:13:17.720 --> 1:13:21.639
<v Speaker 4>think and Breonna Taylor and ott Arbury. Part of what

1:13:21.720 --> 1:13:24.200
<v Speaker 4>was driving in the pandemic and the pandemic, what was

1:13:24.280 --> 1:13:27.280
<v Speaker 4>driving people to the voting booth was wanting to make

1:13:27.320 --> 1:13:32.360
<v Speaker 4>a statement against the things that created those situations. And

1:13:33.680 --> 1:13:36.800
<v Speaker 4>it's just been four years and we saw the rollbacks

1:13:36.960 --> 1:13:40.559
<v Speaker 4>from what was promised in twenty twenty happened literally like

1:13:40.880 --> 1:13:43.240
<v Speaker 4>not even two years later. They couldn't even stand it

1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:45.679
<v Speaker 4>at that low, and I was like, that's fair yeah,

1:13:45.920 --> 1:13:49.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean, And so all these companies that are suddenly

1:13:51.760 --> 1:13:53.719
<v Speaker 4>and they're part of it is that like they're being

1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:56.080
<v Speaker 4>bullied into it, but part of it it's an easy

1:13:56.080 --> 1:14:00.679
<v Speaker 4>capitulation for them. Like nobody was asking, you know, Walmart

1:14:00.680 --> 1:14:03.320
<v Speaker 4>had a d I auditioned like no one knew, but

1:14:03.360 --> 1:14:04.920
<v Speaker 4>they were just like, tell you what before y'all come

1:14:04.960 --> 1:14:05.320
<v Speaker 4>for us.

1:14:05.880 --> 1:14:06.680
<v Speaker 3>We're getting rid of this.

1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:09.360
<v Speaker 4>And of course the Walmart family, anybody does a little

1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:12.559
<v Speaker 4>bit of research, they're big Trump supporters, right, so when

1:14:12.600 --> 1:14:15.080
<v Speaker 4>they even started one, I was like, oh, this is weird,

1:14:15.160 --> 1:14:20.439
<v Speaker 4>but okay, but what we will you know, find is

1:14:20.439 --> 1:14:25.160
<v Speaker 4>that that now because even though it was a slimmest

1:14:25.200 --> 1:14:29.800
<v Speaker 4>of majority, a slimmest of margins, because Trump has did

1:14:29.840 --> 1:14:31.920
<v Speaker 4>win the popular vote by let's I think he wanted

1:14:31.960 --> 1:14:35.800
<v Speaker 4>by the lowest margin in history. You know, it was

1:14:35.880 --> 1:14:38.599
<v Speaker 4>like less than two percent, he won the popular vote.

1:14:38.920 --> 1:14:41.360
<v Speaker 4>But they're leaning into that and saying that this is

1:14:41.400 --> 1:14:44.519
<v Speaker 4>a mandate that America wants to be more in the

1:14:44.600 --> 1:14:45.720
<v Speaker 4>image of what he is.

1:14:45.800 --> 1:14:47.800
<v Speaker 1>America chose to vote, That's what happened.

1:14:47.800 --> 1:14:48.400
<v Speaker 3>That's what happened.

1:14:48.439 --> 1:14:52.200
<v Speaker 4>America chose not to vote, and America chose to dig

1:14:52.240 --> 1:14:57.040
<v Speaker 4>in further into the patriarchy, misogyny, and racism. So America America,

1:14:57.360 --> 1:15:03.320
<v Speaker 4>basically in America, and so that is going to impact

1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:09.760
<v Speaker 4>what we do because suddenly, unless you have some very

1:15:11.160 --> 1:15:13.280
<v Speaker 4>unless you have people who are willing to stomach this

1:15:13.439 --> 1:15:15.400
<v Speaker 4>kind of fight. We're going to see a lot of

1:15:15.439 --> 1:15:19.480
<v Speaker 4>people lay down before they've even been asked to. And

1:15:19.600 --> 1:15:23.320
<v Speaker 4>that is scary. That is how authoritarianism happens.

1:15:23.880 --> 1:15:28.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know what, I will say this, just because

1:15:28.760 --> 1:15:31.240
<v Speaker 1>you know Ecqu's right, we've taken more time than we

1:15:31.400 --> 1:15:38.240
<v Speaker 1>deserve from you. We on this show, on this program,

1:15:38.280 --> 1:15:42.240
<v Speaker 1>we do believe in allies and those who have chosen

1:15:42.280 --> 1:15:46.160
<v Speaker 1>to stay. You know, we make this show for you.

1:15:46.240 --> 1:15:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Collectively.

1:15:47.600 --> 1:15:51.639
<v Speaker 1>We're all we have, and whatever path forward, it's going

1:15:51.720 --> 1:15:55.280
<v Speaker 1>to require all of us on it in agreement. I

1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:57.640
<v Speaker 1>don't ever want to be a part of anything that

1:15:57.880 --> 1:16:01.640
<v Speaker 1>is even remotely divisive in terms of humanities capacity to

1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:04.760
<v Speaker 1>come together. Uh, And I know that you feel the

1:16:04.800 --> 1:16:06.360
<v Speaker 1>same way. I'll speak for him in this moment, and

1:16:06.400 --> 1:16:14.680
<v Speaker 1>so we will never allow our intellectual property to be

1:16:14.760 --> 1:16:17.120
<v Speaker 1>used in that way, nor our images, nor our voices

1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:20.200
<v Speaker 1>or anything like that. So we're still here. If you're

1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:22.559
<v Speaker 1>still here, and if you're listening, then that means that

1:16:22.600 --> 1:16:28.200
<v Speaker 1>you're still here. I will say that whatever path forward, Uh,

1:16:28.479 --> 1:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>it's going to take voices like yours, Jamail. We hope

1:16:32.360 --> 1:16:35.519
<v Speaker 1>that we are making a difference with what we're doing,

1:16:35.560 --> 1:16:38.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, being on one hundred and seven d.

1:16:38.960 --> 1:16:43.759
<v Speaker 2>Radio stations that right feel like we.

1:16:43.640 --> 1:16:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Are doing something special. But you know, as you mentioned,

1:16:46.920 --> 1:16:47.519
<v Speaker 1>that could.

1:16:47.320 --> 1:16:50.040
<v Speaker 4>Change, but it's more critical now.

1:16:49.920 --> 1:16:50.639
<v Speaker 3>That you do it now.

1:16:52.200 --> 1:16:54.439
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Thank you for saying that, because it doesn't

1:16:54.439 --> 1:16:57.240
<v Speaker 2>always feel. We felt a little hopeless, right you know

1:16:57.360 --> 1:16:59.880
<v Speaker 2>after the election results it was like a are we

1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:03.040
<v Speaker 2>making a different We do that for years and again.

1:17:03.080 --> 1:17:05.800
<v Speaker 2>The conversation that led us to having this conversation with

1:17:05.840 --> 1:17:08.760
<v Speaker 2>you was a communication from somebody at iHeart that said, hey,

1:17:09.040 --> 1:17:12.080
<v Speaker 2>you guys seem to have some shared ideas and I'm like,

1:17:12.160 --> 1:17:14.960
<v Speaker 2>we and Jamail have more than just shared ideas. There's

1:17:14.960 --> 1:17:18.640
<v Speaker 2>some history there. But you know, for I Heart extending

1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:22.160
<v Speaker 2>to us more radio stations and a much larger platform. Now,

1:17:22.360 --> 1:17:25.439
<v Speaker 2>at least someone over there heard what we were talking

1:17:25.479 --> 1:17:27.559
<v Speaker 2>about in since more people need to hear it so

1:17:28.760 --> 1:17:31.400
<v Speaker 2>important to say what's up to Tony Coles and Chris

1:17:31.439 --> 1:17:34.679
<v Speaker 2>Berrian and Chris Thompson and thank you guys for believing

1:17:34.720 --> 1:17:37.759
<v Speaker 2>in us and kind of elevating and amplifying this messaging

1:17:37.800 --> 1:17:38.240
<v Speaker 2>that we have.

1:17:38.479 --> 1:17:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, what I would like to do is, uh, you know,

1:17:43.840 --> 1:17:46.759
<v Speaker 1>forge your relationship with you as one of those voices

1:17:46.880 --> 1:17:51.200
<v Speaker 1>that you know, we might turn to your a brilliant mind.

1:17:51.040 --> 1:17:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Call on me whenever.

1:17:52.040 --> 1:17:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love to have you back on the show.

1:17:54.000 --> 1:17:55.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I would love to be back.

1:17:55.600 --> 1:17:58.639
<v Speaker 4>This has been great because sometimes even though in this

1:17:58.680 --> 1:18:01.200
<v Speaker 4>moment where we're all just trying to regroup.

1:18:01.800 --> 1:18:03.120
<v Speaker 3>It feels better to do it together.

1:18:03.240 --> 1:18:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, what feels better to.

1:18:04.840 --> 1:18:07.760
<v Speaker 3>Do it together. So this has been good for me.

1:18:08.720 --> 1:18:11.200
<v Speaker 2>It's they that's all right.

1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:11.599
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry.

1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:12.519
<v Speaker 2>We could do that.

1:18:12.520 --> 1:18:15.759
<v Speaker 1>We could do that, but you know, if if it's meaningful.

1:18:17.160 --> 1:18:21.920
<v Speaker 1>I know that you kind of moving a different set

1:18:21.960 --> 1:18:25.479
<v Speaker 1>of circles and there's some very powerful people in your corner,

1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:28.479
<v Speaker 1>but we would like to be counted among the people

1:18:28.520 --> 1:18:31.360
<v Speaker 1>that are willing to amplify any messaging that you have

1:18:31.479 --> 1:18:33.479
<v Speaker 1>that you need to get out there and not just

1:18:33.520 --> 1:18:36.679
<v Speaker 1>pick your brain for our own sake, but just because

1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:40.320
<v Speaker 1>we feel like, again, you're the activist woman to me.

1:18:41.360 --> 1:18:44.479
<v Speaker 1>You know, you might talk about you know, I don't

1:18:44.479 --> 1:18:46.439
<v Speaker 1>know who up there is a basketball player on the sign.

1:18:47.479 --> 1:18:52.080
<v Speaker 1>You might talk about basketball people, but I know you know, well.

1:18:51.920 --> 1:18:54.200
<v Speaker 4>I consider that to be a huge compliment. Sure, And

1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:57.760
<v Speaker 4>the only reason why I'm reluctant to accept it is

1:18:57.800 --> 1:18:59.800
<v Speaker 4>just because I have several of my friends who are

1:18:59.800 --> 1:19:01.040
<v Speaker 4>on ground activists.

1:19:01.120 --> 1:19:04.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we'll say are yeah, same, we remarkable people.

1:19:04.640 --> 1:19:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Well before we go, we're we're DJs and Q obviously

1:19:08.200 --> 1:19:10.200
<v Speaker 1>every saying that that's where we come from. We're we're

1:19:10.320 --> 1:19:13.200
<v Speaker 1>we're radio personalities. As you mentioned, we was, you know,

1:19:13.320 --> 1:19:15.800
<v Speaker 1>stick around after these messages. We got your tickets coming

1:19:15.880 --> 1:19:16.479
<v Speaker 1>up and X.

1:19:16.560 --> 1:19:17.519
<v Speaker 2>Y and Z will do whoop.

1:19:17.960 --> 1:19:21.080
<v Speaker 1>And now we're here firmly in this space. And there

1:19:21.080 --> 1:19:23.640
<v Speaker 1>are people that know us from way back then and

1:19:23.680 --> 1:19:25.960
<v Speaker 1>they're like, man, it's so great to see how far

1:19:26.040 --> 1:19:28.240
<v Speaker 1>you've come. And then there's people that have no idea

1:19:28.360 --> 1:19:31.000
<v Speaker 1>you're a DJ and I'm all tattooed up and everything, like,

1:19:31.160 --> 1:19:31.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm a DJ.

1:19:31.800 --> 1:19:33.800
<v Speaker 2>That's what I do. Give you a microphone and a party, man,

1:19:34.400 --> 1:19:35.120
<v Speaker 2>how to make it work?

1:19:35.160 --> 1:19:39.920
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, yeah, so, uh, for whatever reason, we're all here,

1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:42.360
<v Speaker 1>and uh, you know, we we want to make sure

1:19:42.400 --> 1:19:46.599
<v Speaker 1>that that you feel like you have some supporters and

1:19:46.640 --> 1:19:49.240
<v Speaker 1>that you know, we feel like we can come back

1:19:49.240 --> 1:19:51.240
<v Speaker 1>to you and just kind of pick your brain because

1:19:51.240 --> 1:19:53.120
<v Speaker 1>you you know, you have a different vantage point and

1:19:53.560 --> 1:19:57.519
<v Speaker 1>so forth. You know, I'm a you know, I'm I'm

1:19:57.520 --> 1:20:00.000
<v Speaker 1>from I'm from down down the road there in Comptons,

1:20:00.040 --> 1:20:02.040
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not from Detroit, so you know you got

1:20:02.080 --> 1:20:03.280
<v Speaker 1>to say a proper goodbye.

1:20:03.360 --> 1:20:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Q let her go. Just to everybody they got a

1:20:06.960 --> 1:20:09.240
<v Speaker 2>chance to hear this today, This conversation is a long

1:20:09.320 --> 1:20:15.160
<v Speaker 2>time coming. Jaml and I closer to family than associates professionally,

1:20:15.280 --> 1:20:18.720
<v Speaker 2>my cousins, my friends from high school, our friends from

1:20:18.800 --> 1:20:21.479
<v Speaker 2>high school, my friends from Michigan State. Like it goes

1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:23.840
<v Speaker 2>back from Aaron Hayten and Derek Mason to I could

1:20:23.840 --> 1:20:26.439
<v Speaker 2>be naming names all day. Shout out to Regina Bowie,

1:20:27.120 --> 1:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>who is the reason I know Jamil's name. And I'll

1:20:30.000 --> 1:20:34.640
<v Speaker 2>tell you more about that story later. But author, producer

1:20:35.040 --> 1:20:39.400
<v Speaker 2>and to Ramsey's activist talk to me host of the

1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:44.799
<v Speaker 2>iheard podcast Politics Above the fold on in the TNT group,

1:20:45.760 --> 1:20:49.759
<v Speaker 2>and I can't wait to see this Colin Kaepernick project.

1:20:49.800 --> 1:20:52.800
<v Speaker 2>You got me really excited about that. We're very proud

1:20:52.840 --> 1:20:55.559
<v Speaker 2>of you, and like Ramsay said, you have not just

1:20:55.600 --> 1:20:57.760
<v Speaker 2>some supporters here, but some brothers who will you know,

1:20:57.800 --> 1:20:59.200
<v Speaker 2>stand up in front of you if we need to

1:21:00.280 --> 1:21:00.479
<v Speaker 2>like that.

1:21:00.760 --> 1:21:01.160
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

1:21:01.240 --> 1:21:03.160
<v Speaker 4>I know I know I'm dealing with some real ones,

1:21:03.160 --> 1:21:06.360
<v Speaker 4>So thank you all for you know this wonderful interview

1:21:06.360 --> 1:21:07.000
<v Speaker 4>and this time spending.

1:21:07.160 --> 1:21:10.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, last thing before we go. I know that you're

1:21:10.800 --> 1:21:13.000
<v Speaker 1>very popular, but do us a favorite. Let everybody know

1:21:13.040 --> 1:21:14.479
<v Speaker 1>your social media how they.

1:21:14.360 --> 1:21:19.559
<v Speaker 4>Can Oh, very simple, Jamail Hill. Pretty much everywhere. So

1:21:19.600 --> 1:21:21.519
<v Speaker 4>I'm on Blue Sky now for those who have made

1:21:21.560 --> 1:21:25.080
<v Speaker 4>the transition, still on Twitter, just a whole lot less.

1:21:26.600 --> 1:21:29.240
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, Instagram Jamail Hill, threads Jamail Hill. So yeah,

1:21:29.280 --> 1:21:31.400
<v Speaker 3>you can catch me pretty much anywhere. I'm not hard

1:21:31.400 --> 1:21:31.679
<v Speaker 3>to find.

1:21:31.840 --> 1:21:34.479
<v Speaker 1>And you can find me on a social media at

1:21:34.560 --> 1:21:35.439
<v Speaker 1>Rams's Jah.

1:21:35.479 --> 1:21:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I am q Ward on a social media as well.

1:21:38.000 --> 1:21:39.519
<v Speaker 2>And until next time, y'all peace,