1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. A few weeks ago, 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: I sat in my church and I listened as my 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: pastor laid out the reasons we are watching this war 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: in Israel right now. And I wanted to talk about 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: this today because I think so many of us are 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: talking about the war in Israel from our perspective, and 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: very passionately from our perspective, but maybe not fully understanding 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: the background and why we're passionate about it. And the background, 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: of course goes back thousands of years. We're living in 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: the present, but there's a real reason that this happened, 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: that happened many many years ago. In this sermon, he 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: talked about Christianity and Islam and what Muslims believe and 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: why we see this conflict once again ripping lives apart 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: in that region of the world. My pastor agreed to 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: join me today to share this with all of you, 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: and I find it fascinating and I think you will too. 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: I think it's actually going to clear up a lot 18 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: of the noise you're hearing. I believe that his message 19 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: is going to bring people together who are actually willing 20 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: to hear what he has to say. It's not a 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: message of division. It's a message of explanation and really 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: understanding both sides of the argument, which I don't think 23 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: we're willing to take a lot of time to sit 24 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: down and do oftentimes when we feel passionate that we're 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: on one side or the other. So I think that 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: you're going to hear a lot of answers to your questions. 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: And before we get to all of those answers to 28 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: your questions, you know that I'm always asking you how 29 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: you feel about your health because I believe you can't 30 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: put a price on your health. And I want you 31 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: to know that I stay energized and I keep doing 32 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: what I love every day because I get the maximum 33 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: servings and nutrition of fruits and vegetables. 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Thanks for having 60 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: me chatting today. 61 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so. I listened to this sermon and it 62 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is what so many of us 63 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: don't understand, and you really you start from the beginning, 64 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: and I mean we're even talking about where we we 65 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: have Abraham and everything separates, and I think that's an 66 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: area where a lot of us just feel like, you know, 67 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: Hagar just went off and we were done with her. 68 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: But there's a story there, and I was just I 69 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: just want you to kind of explain that to people 70 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: so they understand this is a part of our history, 71 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: our collective history. You call it a familial issue, which 72 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 1: I loved. 73 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know this conflict that we're kind 74 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: of looking at every day in the news that dates 75 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: all the way back. It's over four thousand years ago. 76 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: And God makes it promise in Genesis twelve to Abram 77 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: he'll later be called Abraham, that through his line there's 78 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: going to be blood, he's going to receive a land, 79 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: he's going to receive he's going to become a great nation. 80 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: And that promise is made, but it isn't fulfilled right away. 81 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: I mean, twenty five years go by, Abraham doesn't have 82 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: a son, his wife Sarah is barren, and they begin 83 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 2: to doubt the promises of God never a great idea, 84 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: and what happens is we do it. We do it 85 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: all the time, and they doubt the promises. And the 86 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: idea is hatched by Sarah that Abraham will have his 87 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: offspring through her maid servant, Hagar, and the result of 88 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: that as a child by the name of Ishmael. And 89 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: that creates, as you can imagine, a lot of family 90 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: tension and a lot of family squabble, because all of 91 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,119 Speaker 2: a sudden, Hagar believes and that that is the first born. 92 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: Sarah becomes jealous of her handmaiden. But lo and behold, 93 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: God does fulfill his promises, and Sarah becomes pregnant. And 94 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: where Abraham had now two sons, both Isaac and Ishmael. 95 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: The debate really between Islam and Christianity all the way 96 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: to this date is who or which son is the 97 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: reciprocy of the promises that God made all the way 98 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: back in Genesis twelve and the covenant that he made 99 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: in Genesis fifteen. And then when we fast forward to 100 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: Genesis twenty two, there's a child of sacrifice in the 101 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: child of promise. Christians believe that that is Isaac. Islam 102 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: believes and teaches that that is actual Ishmael. So the 103 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: question and what we're seeing play out in front of 104 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: us in the news every day, is who does this 105 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: land belong to? Who did in essence, who did God 106 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: give it to? Did he give it to the descendants 107 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 2: of Ishmael or did he give it to the descendants 108 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: of Isaac, both sons of Abraham. 109 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: Well, and I like the fact that you talk about 110 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: in the Muslim culture and the Muslim religion, you can't 111 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: take over land once they control the land, And that 112 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: is really where this conflict is, is that there core 113 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: belief is that once they control land, it cannot be 114 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: taken back by another group. 115 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. So in the case of you've got the Arab 116 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 2: League of Nations, and one of the things I would 117 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: even encourage your listeners to do is just pull up 118 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: a map, just Google a map of kind of the 119 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: Arab League of Nations in relation to where Israel is. 120 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: It's pretty astounding how Israel is kind of bordered on 121 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: every side by a people group that is often set 122 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: on seeing them not be present in the land. And 123 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: I'm saying that as nice as I can. But what 124 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: you've got is that whole debate of whose land does 125 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: this belong to? What the Quran would teach is that 126 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: if Islam takes over land, because they're not just a 127 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: religious movement, they're also a political movement. And if a 128 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: country becomes a Muslim country and then later on they 129 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: sacrifice some of that land, or some of that land 130 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: is taken back from them, they have permission. They're actually 131 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: obligated to fight to keep control of that land, which 132 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: explains why they're so aggressive in recapturing the nation of 133 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: Israel and getting that back under Palestinian control. 134 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: Well, by nature, I mean, the religion is not Sometimes 135 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: people say that their religion is a religion of violence 136 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: in jihad, but that you preached that that's not really 137 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: what the religion is about. 138 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, what I would say is, I think your typical 139 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: Muslim neighbor is not the issue. They have a set 140 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: of beliefs. They believe that Allah is God alone and 141 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: that Muhammads's prophet. They're trying to live peaceably. They are 142 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: trying to follow their faith the same way that we 143 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: want the religious freedoms for us to follow our beliefs 144 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: as Christians in this country. But where this becomes a 145 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: problem is ms. Islam is different than Christianity in that 146 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: it is viewed more as a national movement than an 147 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: individual conversion, and I touched on that and the message 148 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 2: that I preached. Islam has two objectives. They want to 149 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: see people convert to Islam, but they also want to 150 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: see Islam spread and basically eventually become a global religion. 151 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: That's the objective. 152 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: And I think that that's what a lot of people 153 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: are seeing in Western Europe right now. Is there's a 154 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: lot of Islamic temples or whatever. I mean, I don't 155 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: even know what they a mosque, I guess a mosque. 156 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of mosques moving, and there's a lot 157 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: of the Islamic culture coming in, a lot of refugees 158 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: coming in, and there's been kind of this like, yes, 159 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: we want to welcome everybody, in the attitude of we 160 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: want to welcome everybody, maybe not with the understanding of 161 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: once these folks are there, it's really their intent that 162 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 1: you join their religion or you're gone. And you talked 163 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: about it being an easy religion to join, which I 164 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: found fascinating because I never think about it's hard to 165 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: be a Christian. You have to fight to be a Christian. 166 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: Go through a little bit. Why you say it's an 167 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: easy religious to religion to join. 168 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what I stressed was was just simply 169 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 2: when you become a Muslim. The process of becoming a 170 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: Muslim is fairly simple. You basically recite the Creed in 171 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: front of witnesses that there's no God but Allah and 172 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: Mohammads's prophet. Once you have joined that religion, the rules 173 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: are very concise and they're very very clear. You're required 174 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: to pray five times a day facing Mecca. You're required 175 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: to give x percentage to the poor. You're required during 176 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: your lifetime to make one pilgrimage to Mecca. You fast 177 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: between sunrise and sunset a month a year during Ramadan. 178 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: It's very very Hey, this is what is expected of 179 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: you if you are a Muslim. But all of that too, 180 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: it puts you in a camp of Your religion is 181 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: a works based religion, and your acceptance by God is 182 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,359 Speaker 2: based off what you do in your performance. 183 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick com break. Will continue next on 184 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We always argue in our Christian faith, 185 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: if you know people, there are people like, Oh, I've 186 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: been good my whole life. I've done all of this, 187 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: So I've got my space. I've got a good spot 188 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: up there. You know, and Christianity is based on your 189 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: faith and your belief in Jesus Christ, and that is, 190 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, once you've been saved, you've been saved and 191 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: you have that space. But I think it's interesting to 192 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: me because I spend a lot of time with our 193 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: Muslim families here in the state of Michigan when I 194 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: was campaigning, and you could tell that they were kind 195 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: of like, you guys, screwed this up. You let people 196 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: do whatever they wanted. Grace is not a good thing. 197 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: You know, You're not very moral anymore. You talk about 198 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: the Muslim faith being very moral. And so I do 199 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: think that's also a conflict because these groups are looking 200 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: at us and saying, you can tell me that Christianity 201 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: is good, but you guys are really messed up. So 202 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: how do you explain that to people? 203 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 2: Well, again, it comes from the Muslim perspective that it's 204 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 2: not only an individual conversion, but it's kind of a 205 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: national movement. So from a Muslim's perspective, if you live 206 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: in one of these countries that is Muslim dominated, a 207 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: couple things. One I would argue, you don't have a 208 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: lot of freedom to be anything other than Muslim. In 209 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: those countries. But they look at the Western civilization, take 210 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 2: the United States for example, and they see the moral 211 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 2: decay within our country, and they either blame that on 212 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: Christianity or at least attribute the decline to the ineffectiveness 213 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: of Christianity to be able to hold any moral high ground. 214 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,239 Speaker 2: So they're looking at it from a country to country basis, 215 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: and I mean, the fact of the matter is we 216 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: live in a very post modern and post Christian culture 217 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: here in the United States right now. That's one problem, 218 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: but it's really not even a cultural issue. Understand that 219 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: in my community, I've got a lot of people that 220 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: don't share my convictions or my beliefs. But what you've 221 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 2: seen is the church in many ways, to accommodate what's 222 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 2: going on in culture, they've actually compromised their beliefs and 223 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: that's where the chaos ensues. 224 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: Well, I mean that was a main theme when I 225 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: would campaign and talk to Muslim families. They're like, why 226 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: do you guys let this happen? Because obviously we were 227 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: at the time looking at some of this pornography in schools, 228 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: and that was really what we were hearing from that community, 229 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: like what is happening? How could this be acceptable? How 230 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: could you have ever let this happen? And it was 231 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: sort of a sense of Hey, we're newer here. We 232 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: came here in the twenties. You know, you guys have 233 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: been here for two hundred years. How'd you screw this up? 234 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: Well? And I do think that we live in a 235 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: culture where freedom has somewhat been redefined and nobody gets 236 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: to tell me what to do and I get to 237 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: do whatever I want and you've got to be okay 238 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: with that, And that, I think is a view of 239 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 2: freedom that is a little bit new, and it lacks 240 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 2: the undertones that we had early in our country of 241 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 2: men and individuals and politicians. And I don't mean to 242 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: use a real old fashioned word here, but the word 243 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: I choose is function that we're going to do the 244 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 2: right thing independent of the personal consequences that that could produce. 245 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, all we're celebrating. Really the 246 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: biggest virtue in our culture today is acceptance. It's the 247 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 2: greatest virtue. It's the thing that we value the most. 248 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: And where that kind of makes Christianity more difficult in 249 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 2: our context. Is there some things that a holy God 250 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 2: has said, some things that are right some things that 251 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 2: are wrong, and do you have convictions on those things? 252 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: Well, and I think that we've seen I mean, I've 253 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: heard people say I don't want to go to that 254 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: church or I don't want to be in church because 255 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: they're going to tell me all these things that I've 256 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: done wrong. And that is that, you know, you are 257 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: being convicted of your own sin. And we are a 258 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: culture that doesn't want to be I mean, I've been 259 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: thinking just this week, I've been kind of mulling over 260 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: the story of Jesus' birth in a different way because 261 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: obviously I was attacked for my life view. But we 262 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: were sitting at a game recently and the person next 263 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: to me had a child who was cheering on the 264 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: younger sister. But the child was born to mom and 265 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: dad when they were seventeen, you know. And I'm like, today, 266 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: that's that's not acceptable, you know, and people don't want 267 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: to be told. And then two families down is a 268 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: down syndrome child and mom is playing and keeping him 269 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: out and she looks at me and say, oh, he's 270 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: just so active, and I'm like, what, these are blessings, 271 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: such great blessings, And yet in society today, we've become 272 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: a society where we have said convenience and what I 273 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: want is more important than morality, and it really does 274 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: go to morality, and I can see how that creates conflict. 275 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: People say that religion is what's creating conflict, but it's 276 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: the differences in what we're allowing and people seeing this 277 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: destruction of society that I believe is causing the division. 278 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 2: And you know, again going back to the idea that 279 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: Islam is more of a work space relation or a religion, 280 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: when I look at Christianity, true Christianity, and we've muddied 281 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: the waters quite a bit. The Church hasn't done a 282 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: great job of this, but the Gospels actually very clear. 283 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: The Old Testament lays out who God is. He's a 284 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: God of love, he's a creator god, but he's also 285 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: a god of wrath, and he's a God that is holy. 286 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: And we're given ten commandments that you know, and then 287 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: the rest of the law. But the purpose of the law, 288 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 2: it never saved us. All it did was show us 289 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: that we needed a savior. And the key ingredient in 290 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: Christianity that makes it different than other religions. It's not 291 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: based off we do, it's what God did on our 292 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: behalf what's required of us as repentance. And today if 293 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: I suggest, well what you're doing is wrong and it 294 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 2: needs to be repented from that is not met well 295 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: within a cultural context. But yet that's the gospel. That's 296 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: true of you, that's true of me. All of us 297 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: need repentance. 298 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: There's something else that you said during that sermon, and 299 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: that was that there's no there's no you have to 300 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of faith to follow the Muslim religion 301 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: because there's no witnesses, there's no there's no storytelling. This 302 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: is all from a prophet who was illiterate. They couldn't 303 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: even write down this story. And I found that fascinating 304 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: because again, thinking of the story of the birth of Jesus, 305 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: I'm such a interesting witnesses. I mean, we really had 306 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: such interesting witnesses. Why choose the shepherd in the field. 307 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,719 Speaker 1: It's not what we would have Why choose Mary? You know, 308 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: we would have had him in a kingdom where people 309 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: came in from all over the world and said, oh, 310 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: this is definitely the next king, the king of all nations, 311 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: you know, and you cannot deny that the story was 312 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: we were told this would happen and then these things happened. 313 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: As we're looking at Christmas this week. Some of my 314 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 2: favorite characters in the Christmas story are the wise men. 315 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: What are these guys doing showing up from the east. 316 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: And if you study the Old Testament, one of the 317 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 2: things that you'll learn is Daniel was a prophet in 318 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: captivity in Babylon. He was in the East, and because 319 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: of his ability to interpret dreams, we're told in the 320 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 2: Book of Daniel that he was actually made lord of 321 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: the Magi and he was giving his prophecies in Babylon. 322 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 2: And then five six hundred years later you've got Wiseman 323 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 2: showing up in these that had studied Daniel's prophecies, and 324 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: they were so precise as it related to the return 325 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 2: of Christ that all biblical criticism up until about one 326 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: hundred years ago said Daniel had to be written after 327 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: the birth of Christ. The prophecies are too specific. There's 328 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 2: no way that front run his birth. Same with the 329 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: Book of Isaiah. But then, Tutor, what happened was we 330 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 2: discovered in some Bedouin caves these scrolls, the Dead Sea scrolls. 331 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: And what happened is you found the Isaiah scroll, the 332 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: entire manuscript of Zaiah with Isaiah fifty three, describing in 333 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: detail how Jesus would die, written centuries before he lived. 334 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: You've got Daniel nine from the Book of Daniel prophecies 335 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 2: when Messiah would come, very very specific, specific enough that 336 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: wiseman knew to be looking for it at the time 337 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 2: of his birth. Dozens of Old Testament prophecies. You don't 338 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: have that at the foundation of Islam. You've got Mohammed 339 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: has in some case. This is a non descript man 340 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: in his Middle Ages walking out into a cave, coming 341 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: back saying he saw the vision of an angel, received 342 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: this and reciting back to them the basic tenants that 343 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 2: would eventually become the Qur'an. It's very different. He didn't 344 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: fulfill prophecy. Jesus did because He's got. 345 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: One other thing that you talked about, which I don't 346 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: think was meaningful to any of us until I heard 347 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: this really was the meaning of the word hamas, because 348 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: we hear hamas constantly. Now we think, well, this is 349 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: a terror organization. I mean, you've seen I think it's 350 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: the Queen of Saudi Arabia come out and say that 351 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: this is what they need to do. We need to 352 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: support Hamas. Hamas is the government there, and if we're 353 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: saying it's just a terror group, we're not giving them 354 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 1: enough credit. They are the government there. They have control 355 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: of the people. But the name is very meaningful and 356 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of this. Explain what you told us 357 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: about the name Hamas well. 358 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, Actually, it's roots date all the way back to 359 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,479 Speaker 2: the Book of Genesis in chapter six and describing the 360 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 2: time where Noah is chosen before a flood to basically 361 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: save humanity. It says that the heart of every man 362 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 2: was unevil continually, and it says that the earth was 363 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: filled with violence. That word violence is the word Hamas. 364 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 2: And you can look at the word of mass. I 365 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: understand that it's an Arabic abbreviation for something else, but 366 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: it's not lost on the Israeli people that the root 367 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 2: of that road goes all the way back to Genesis 368 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 2: and it stands for violence. 369 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: It's and you think about that, I mean, there is 370 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: certainly a reason to put that name out there, because 371 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: it does. It's like when you talked about Allah Akbar, 372 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: and the call is to put fear into the hearts 373 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: of non believers. That's what that's why they yell that 374 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: out because they say everybody who who hears this, who 375 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: is non believer, will fear it. I mean, there is 376 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: definitely power in these words that they use. And you 377 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: look at just the October seventh attack, I mean, violence 378 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: doesn't cover that. So where do we go from here? 379 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: I mean when you as a Christian, I think that 380 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: so many of us as Christians have felt like, oh, 381 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: what are we supposed to say? How do we talk 382 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: about this? And how we do live in a culture 383 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: where how do we not offend? And yet how do 384 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: we be strong in our stands? So what is your 385 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: suggestion to people who don't know how to talk about this? 386 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: Well, I think you need to go back. And I 387 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: think what's getting lost in some of the media coverage 388 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 2: today the events of October seventh. That was an act 389 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: of terrorism. It wasn't just violence. The way in which 390 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: it was executed and the way that the people not 391 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: only were killed but brutalized, it was meant to elicit 392 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: terror amongst the Israelian quite honestly the world populous. It 393 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: was an active terror. In response to that active terror, 394 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: where you had the elderly, you had children not only murdered, 395 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: but then taken hostage. How should Israel respond? How would 396 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: America respond if someone invaded our borders and treated our 397 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: citizens that way? And so what happens is there's military retaliation. 398 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 2: We have to be smart enough to see the difference 399 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: between terrorism and some of the atrocities of war. Israel 400 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: didn't want to enter Gaza. They were dragged into the 401 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: same kicking and screaming because of the events of October seventh. 402 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 2: And I don't know that you're left with a huge 403 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: solution or an easy solution. I think, I said in 404 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 2: the message, Israel's and somewhat of a lose loose. They're 405 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: surrounded by people that don't want to see them in 406 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: the land. People that live my Israeli friends, they often say, 407 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: we have a beautiful home, but we live in a 408 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 2: sketchy neighborhood, and they wake up every day saying who 409 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: are we at war with? Completely surrounded by people who 410 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: don't want them to exist in that land. And I 411 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 2: don't think the two states kind of coexistence. I don't 412 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 2: think that's proving to be really effective. So I don't 413 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 2: think there is an easy solution to the conflict that 414 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: we're seeing in Gaza and in Israel and between Palestinians 415 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: and between israelis. What I said in my sermon was 416 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: there is a resolve to this. Jesus wins. And one 417 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: of the interesting things is at the end of the day, 418 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: Jesus returns to Israel, to Jerusalem. And I do believe 419 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 2: that that's going to be the thing that resolves this conflict, 420 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,959 Speaker 2: because our great hope is that Christ is really going 421 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 2: to come back, and there's going to be a day 422 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: there is no more terror, and there are no more borders, 423 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: and there's no more politicians, and there's no more debating 424 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 2: the news. And quite honestly, all of us pastors are 425 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: out of business because Jesus is there any king of 426 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: kings and lord of lords. And that's where we place 427 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 2: our hole. 428 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 429 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. I also found it interesting that 430 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: you said that in the Muslim religion, they believe that 431 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: there is a return of Christ too, it's a very 432 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: different looking return. 433 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: For sure, they think he's coming back. They would agree 434 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 2: with us on that, but they look at him as 435 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 2: coming back as a prophet affirming Mohammad and Allah. They 436 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: never recognize Jesus as God like we do. And they 437 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: also view Mohammed as a successor prophet, which means he 438 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 2: can look back at respect of what the other prophet 439 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 2: said in the Old Testament, which many Muslims do, but 440 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: when he says something that differs or alters what they said, 441 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: his word holds the greater weight. So that's one of 442 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: the things in Islam, with Mohammad being a success or prophet. 443 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: They look at their religion his newer It's kind of 444 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 2: the new version, the improved version. And you would never 445 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: go back to an iPhone eleven once you've got the 446 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 2: iPhone fifteen. And that's kind of how a Muslim with 447 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: view converting to Christianity. It's like we're going backwards in 448 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: the progression of God's revelation. 449 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was another thing that you were talking about. 450 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: This is they believe that this is the newer religion, 451 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: like we've come back and we're fixing all the things 452 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: that you got wrong and we have this clarified. I mean, 453 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: I get the idea that it looks very organized. I 454 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: think that if you are just comparing the two, I 455 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: think of it as like my kid's room. I walk 456 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: into one kid's room and it's like she rents it 457 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: and she goes to school for the day, and she 458 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: comes back and sleeps at night, and it's everything's perfectly 459 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: put away. I go to the other kids room and 460 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: it is chaos, but there's creativity among the chaos. It's 461 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: I walk in and I'm like, oh, my goodness, how 462 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: you live in this room? 463 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 2: You know? 464 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: And I can almost like make that analogy to when 465 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,959 Speaker 1: I see these when I talk to my Muslim friends. 466 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: Everything is very orderly, but not as creative as the 467 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: other side. You know, there there is not as much 468 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: where you can you can see God working in Christianity 469 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: in so many cool ways. And that's what I tell 470 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: people who our non believers are new to faith. I'm like, 471 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: the Bible is there and it tells us these stories. 472 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: But the Bible continues in our lives every day. You 473 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: just either choose to see it or you don't know. 474 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: You have to actually be looking at these little things. 475 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: And my faith journey is new and I know that, 476 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: you know. I started Bible study when my oldest was 477 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: six months old, and we've kind of my girls and 478 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: I have kind of grown up in faith together. And 479 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 1: I was telling someone the other day. My oldest is 480 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: so so funny. She was in school the other day 481 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: and one of the boys was asked to read Psalm 482 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: one nineteen and he said no, and she was really 483 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: mad at him, and she came home She's like, why 484 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: would he do that? Why would he say he's not 485 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: going to read the Bible? And I'm like, because he's 486 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: a teenage boy, you know. But I think it's just 487 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: funny that she was so horrified by this. And my 488 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: husband was like, do you think she's putting us on? 489 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: And I said, her faith journey has been so different 490 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: but so cool to watch because at a very young 491 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: age God came into her life in such a special way. 492 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people would miss 493 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: this or not see it. And I think a lot 494 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: of times we don't, We miss when God works in 495 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: our lives, and so we don't see those biblical miracles 496 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: and little ones. And she was probably five years old 497 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: and the doctor and the preschool had said she's got 498 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: to stop sucking your thumb and she was like, mom, 499 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: I can't. She's tried everything she could and like I said, 500 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: I'm new to faith, right, so to me at that point, 501 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: prayer was not the first thing we went to. And 502 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: finally it struck me. I'm like, why aren't we asking 503 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 1: why do I think we can do this in our 504 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: own power? And so I said, Larkin, let's sit down 505 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: together and pray about it. And she prayed about it. 506 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: And when she was done praying, she was like, I 507 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: need to put my blanket in my closet and that's 508 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: going to help me. And she who remembers to this day, 509 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: I prayed and God answered, I never sucked my tomb again. 510 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: Little things, little little biblical miracles happen in your life 511 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: every day if you're open to seeing them. 512 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know you've attended our church long enough, 513 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: you've probably heard us say that. Before we ever started 514 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 2: the church, we were praying for a messy ministry, and 515 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 2: God has not disappointed in that. We have people that 516 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 2: come from all different backgrounds and different faith journeys. I 517 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 2: grew up in a Christian home. I'm glad for that. 518 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: But the Christianity that I grew up with in some 519 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 2: ways was rules. You do this, you don't do this, 520 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: you do this, you don't do this, and then you're 521 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: a good person. And you know, one of the things 522 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: that Hopefully you're picking up on this that we celebrate 523 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 2: a lot at church, Christianity being something that God does. 524 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: It's not workspace, it's him working on our behalf. We 525 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: repent of our sin. We can go to the cross 526 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 2: Us and we get relief from the guilt and shame 527 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: that we feel. We get relief from the guilt because 528 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: Jesus took our guilt in our place, like he paid 529 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 2: the price for our sin. That's what the cross is 530 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 2: all about. So we're no longer guilty because God's wrath 531 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 2: has already been satisfied by Jesus. And by the way, 532 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: we don't have to approach Jesus, our God in shame 533 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: because God has already said that he loves us, He's 534 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: adopted us as family. And I don't know where to 535 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: run to other than the cross of Jesus Christ in 536 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 2: the Gospel to deal with my guilt and shame. And 537 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 2: we can suppress it, we can push it down, and 538 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: we can think that we're good enough. One of the 539 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: things that's heartbreaking is I look at the Muslim community. 540 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: It is based off works How do you ever know 541 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: if you've prayed enough, if you've fasted enough, if you've 542 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: done enough, and I don't rest in any of my 543 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: own accomplishments, or I rest in what Jesus has done 544 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: on my behalf. I wouldn't trade it for the world. 545 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 2: So any obedience that we have, it's out of gratitude, 546 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 2: it's not out of earning anything. And I don't believe 547 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: hopefully you get this as you attend to our church. 548 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 2: I wouldn't pick a lifestyle different in Christianity because I 549 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: believe it's the way that you know the most joy. 550 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: I really do, and that we've talked about that recently. 551 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: The importance of happiness and the difference between happiness and 552 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: joy and joy is deep and and other people see joy, 553 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: they feel it. I mean you when when you meet 554 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: someone and they say I can feel something different about you. 555 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: You know it's not you. You know that that's the Lord, 556 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, my goodness, that's so cool, that's 557 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: so neat that you see that. But I think that 558 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: that's that's what I try to talk to people about it. 559 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is not about just a community, it's 560 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: not about just a belonging. It is about that you 561 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: will see the way the path God has for you, 562 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,959 Speaker 1: and that he loves you so much more than you 563 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: even love your own kids, Like you can't imagine this 564 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: kind of love, and you will see that love touch 565 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: you in so many different ways once you open your 566 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: eyes to the fact that the love is there. And 567 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: I just want you to know that I enjoy your sermons. 568 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: We love going to your church, and the girls love it. 569 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: It's been a blessing to us. So thank you so much, well. 570 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: Thank you. It has been the joy of my life. 571 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: And it's not always easy. I mean, just like you, 572 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 2: you've got your critics, and you've got the people that 573 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: are not going to align with you, and they're very 574 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: vocal in that. But when you see lives transformed, when 575 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 2: you see marriages saved, and you see the work that 576 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 2: God's doing, it's well well worth it. 577 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 578 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: I have the easy job. I go into church every 579 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: day and I speak to people that mostly align with 580 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: our reviews, or if they don't, they kind of understand 581 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: what they're going to get when they walk into a church. 582 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: What you do every day, that's difficult. You're in the storm. 583 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,719 Speaker 2: You're in the storm, and you're on the front lines, 584 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 2: and you, along with a lot of our public school 585 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: teachers and our people in the medical community. We're lifting 586 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: you up in prayer all the time. 587 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: Oh that's that is so sweet. But it's so funny 588 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: because when I called you to ask you to come on, 589 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: you said, you know, I don't I don't know what 590 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: this does to you if I come on and we 591 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: speak openly. And I thought about that question a lot 592 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: after you said it, because that has been since I 593 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: ran for office. You're so careful, so careful, and I 594 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: see politicians all the time, so careful, and I'm like, 595 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: is that what life is about? Though? Because ultimately, if 596 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: I have this conversation with you and we bring people 597 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: over to Christ, that's what life is about. So should 598 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: I be careful? I'm not going to be careful. Yeah. 599 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: I think the word is unction. You have your convictions 600 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 2: in spite of what the personal consequences might be. You 601 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 2: vote convictions rather than party lines, and I think we 602 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 2: need more of that, not less. 603 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: I agree. I agree, Pastor Dave Wissen, thank you for 604 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: being on today. Thanks, thank you, and thank you all 605 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this 606 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: episode and others, check out Tutor Diixon podcast dot com. 607 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: You can subscribe right there or head over to the 608 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, 609 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: and join us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 610 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: Have a blessed day.