WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 111321 The Racist Watermelon Stereotype (Part A) 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.600 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host, 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:05.040 Rams's Jah. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.880 A lot of people, including my co host, called me 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.280 Q Ward and mostly that's because my name is Quentin, 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.240 so Q is the short and then Ward is. 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:16.120 My last name. So that's just kind of how that 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.360 whole thing came to be. Very thorough. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:24.239 Indeed, stick around today's episode. We got a lot of 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:26.840 cool stuff to talk about, some things you might not 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:32.280 know and that you might want to know, including the 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:38.080 story about watermelons and their relationship to black folks in 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.400 this country. We're going to ask the question our watermelons racist, 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.280 which I know, on his face sounds crazy, but trust me, 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.919 it's worth exploring a little. Later in the show, we're 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.040 going to talk about a recent law that was put 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:58.000 forth in Philadelphia concerning traffic stops and then wanting to 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:06.600 ban non serious, non will use the word criminal traffic stops, 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:13.039 and how feasible that approach to policing might be. Q 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.399 and I are going to both adopt different sides and 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.240 have a bit of a discussion with respect to that, 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.360 so definitely stick around for that. A way black history fact, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:24.080 We're going to check in with an article from PBS 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:29.160 dot Org offered by Henry Lewis Gates Junior about forty 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.800 acres and a mule. A lot of folks, as it 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.160 turns out, are not familiar with that or have heard 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.800 it and do not know how intricate it was and 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.880 how well thought out it was, and so forth and 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:45.840 so on. So you know, we have the show, so 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:47.680 we're gonna make sure to share a little bit of 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.160 that with you. But first, like we always do at 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.800 this time, we are going to discuss what we like 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:59.120 to call some ebony excellence. Is that all right with UQ? 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.560 Yes, sir? All I do is win no matter what. 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:09.120 If you have Netflix, you might have seen an advertisement 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.880 for a movie called The Harder They Fall. And the 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.160 reason that we pick this for our ebony excellence is because, 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.280 as it turns out, it is the number one streamed 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:23.840 movie on Netflix. And that's something that we feel is 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:29.119 quite an accomplishment. Historically in Hollywood, you know, when there's 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.840 an all black cast, that's you know a lot of 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.720 times people tend to shy away from those scripts. You know, 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.840 they they try to alter them, you know, that sort 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.240 of thing. This is something that is very well known, 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.280 you know, and then you know, money. It's often harder 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.120 to come buy money for you know, black movies, we'll 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.680 call them. But you know, with the stereotype being that 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.480 on all black casts is a bad bet. We like 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.600 to see movies like you know, Black Panther. We like 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:01.080 to see movies like this one that really shine and 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.000 really show that there's an interest in this type of filmmaking. 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:09.880 It's one of the few westerns where the cast members 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.359 include black people, because a lot of folks don't even 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.880 know that there were black cowboys, but you can, as 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.160 you can imagine, at that time, you know, it was 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.040 a lot easier to make your way, you know, if 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.040 you're not in the Deep South, and maybe you're a 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.840 little bit more West if you're a black person. And 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.160 another cool thing is that, although this is a fictional film, 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.800 all the characters are based on real cowboys, lawmens, and 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.720 outlaws of the nineteenth century American West, And so we 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:40.080 wanted to take a moment to honor all those involved 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.840 with that movie. Jay Z was one of the producers, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.520 and there's lots of neat little easter eggs that you know. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.520 One of the trains in the movie has Chadwick Boseman's 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.000 name on it a lot of the shops, you know, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.960 in the movies. You know, it's just a really awesome 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.640 effort and artistic expression, and of course it brings some 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.680 light to something a lot of folks know about. So 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.440 have any excellence the hearder they fall. If you haven't 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.000 seen it, be sure to check it out. Now onward, 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:14.440 today we are going to talk about watermelons. That's that's 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.880 such a that's such a funny thing. Now, okay, let 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:23.159 me paint a picture for you. So let's say you're 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.400 not a black person, right, you might be thinking, what's 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.919 wrong with the watermelon? They grow out of the ground. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.880 It's food. Human beings eat food that grow out of 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.640 the ground all over the world. That's kind of what 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:34.040 we do. 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:35.720 It's delicious. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:41.919 Yeah, how about that? You know, But as it turns out, 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:49.600 you know, there are some things that exist in our 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:54.520 world by our I mean, you know, black folks, that 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:01.960 are really the legacy of a very hurtful relationship that 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.400 black folks have had with this country going all the 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:08.279 way back to the beginning, and they still persist to 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.279 this day. And so recently I came across you know, 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.279 I live in an older house, and you know, the 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.560 people that owned this house before I bought it had 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:25.479 some racist caricature black folks advertisements in the backyard, and 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.880 I never discovered them. I lived here. This has been 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.920 twelve years I've lived here. Never discovered them until recently 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.320 because they're posted onto the back of a beam in 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.040 my backyard. Anyway, I saw this stuff and I was like, wow, 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:40.240 you know, and then I saw, you know, there was 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:44.200 a person with black skinned cartoon, big lips of course, 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.280 and he has like a watermelon that's huge, and he's 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.640 like smiling ear to ear, and I was like, you 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.360 know what. At some point, I need to make sure 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.120 that I discussed this with our listeners on the show. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:04.200 So a bit about certain types of foods. I'll tell 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.159 a personal story. I might have shared a bit of 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:10.080 this before, but for those that don't know, Once upon 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.640 a time, I was working at a radio station in Phoenix, Arizona, 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:20.800 and I was the production director of this radio station. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.839 And I worked in a studio that was separate from 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:30.560 the broadcast studios. Right, So there was three studios, two 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:35.360 for broadcast excuse me, one for production where I made 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.760 the radio commercials. I did the imaging. I basically made 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.960 everything that wasn't a song or wasn't a jock talking live, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.520 and that was my job. Everyone knew that that was 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.039 my studio, and I know it belonged to the station, 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.280 but there were all my posters up in there, all 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.720 my magazine covers, you know, because I was a jock too. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.520 But that was where I spent most of my my day. 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.800 So it wasn't there all the time. I had, you know, 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.279 my creature comforts in there, and then whoever needed to 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.000 come in the studio and use it with me, I 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.400 was the one recording their voice. Outside of that, it 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:11.880 was my studio. One day, I there was a recent 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.000 changing of the guard at the radio station. And then, 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.080 you know, one day right after that, I walked into 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.280 my studio and I saw a banana on the mixer. 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.600 The mixer is the big sort of device with all 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.800 the buttons and faders in a recording studio. So I 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:32.360 had one of those as well because I had to 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.000 you know, mix the mics and so forth. There's a 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.120 banana sitting right on there. When I walked into the room, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:42.360 and immediately my heart sank, and immediately I felt like, 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.320 oh my god, I don't know if I should be afraid, angry. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.640 You know what action I should take? How do I 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.160 you know? Because this felt very personal. It felt like 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:57.080 an attack on my character and who I am, and 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.720 an attack on my ancestors. You know, it's just it's just, 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.960 you know. And for those that don't know, walking into 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.600 a studio and seeing a banana there, you would naturally 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.240 think maybe somebody left their banana there. It never even 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:10.480 entered into my mind. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:11.800 It never. 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.679 When I saw that banana, I knew for a fact 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.040 that somebody it might have been the owner, and somebody 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.320 left that for me to see, because it was right there, 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.600 right in front of my seat, right where I couldn't 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.160 miss it. And you know, when I say that, my 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.520 heart sank in that. You know, that gripping fear, that 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.959 paralytic fear that you feel when you are walking down 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.880 the street and you see like a vicious dog in 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.320 front of you with no chain and no one around, like, 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:39.880 oh my god, okay, I need to figure out what 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.200 I need to do. It was that moment for me, 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.840 and immediately I turned around, even walk into the room, 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.400 I turned right back around and let the door close, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:54.920 and I went into the UH program director's office. Somebody 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.400 who I felt like was a friend of mine. I 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.000 still feel like that guy is a friend of mine. 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.920 I didn't assume that it was him so to help 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:09.040 paint that picture. He was always a good man to me. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.120 You know, it felt like a good man. He felt 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.679 like like an ally, like the sort of person that 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.720 would listen to this show. So I went into his 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.360 office and I says, hey, man, I don't know what 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.600 is going on here, but somebody just did something that 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.240 was really out of pocket. And he's like, what are 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:27.680 you talking about. I was like, come here, let me 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.720 show you. And then he got up and he went 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.360 and he saw it and he had no idea. He's like, 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.400 what am I looking for? I'm like, do you see 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:39.200 the banana there on the console? And then when I 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:40.960 pointed it out to him, because he had seen it, 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:42.800 but when I pointed it out to him, he was like, 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:47.679 uh oh, And he's like, I don't know what this is. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.800 I have no idea here. Let me get this out 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.040 of your way, let me figure it out. Please don't 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:54.480 worry about it. Right. So this is why I say 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.400 I felt like he was a kind man. That was 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.440 the reaction I would have expected from him, not that 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.040 I was expecting anything, but he just seemed like that 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.520 sort of a person. Anyway, he took the banana and 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.560 he kind of said some kind words to kind of 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.920 provide a sense of like I'm going to protect you. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.800 You know, for those that don't know, a program director 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.400 is the boss of my position at that time, which 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.360 would have been a production director and a jock. So 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.040 he goes to his office and he does a little 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:33.319 bit of research, and maybe an hour later he puts 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.040 it all together. He's like, hey, as it turns out, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.480 the morning show guy needed to go into the studio 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.800 to cut a promo, so he used your studio to 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:43.160 do it because he had to make way for the 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.760 afternoon or sorry, the midday woman to do her show, 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.560 So he used your studio and that was part of 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.600 his breakfast. And he just forgot it. You know, he 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:54.720 was riding his motorcycle that day. He just forgot it. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.160 He just grabbed his helmet and this and that and 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.079 the third and he just left it there. I don't 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:03.320 think that it was anything directed toward you, so all 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.160 was right with the world. But I think that that 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:20.160 story illuminates just how jarring our meaning black folks relationship 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.920 to food can be when it's observed through the lens 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:28.000 of other races, and other races have the same type 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.120 of these same types of issues. You know, foods are 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.480 closely associated with culture, and if there's some way to 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.600 pick on a culture, you know, usually it's the most 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.600 obvious ones, you know, physical features, with the way people dress, 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.480 what they eat, and so forth. Right, But you know, 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.960 this is so that we can explain our experience to 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.400 folks who might not otherwise know. Now, that was a banana, 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.439 and obviously, or maybe it's not so obvious. The connection 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:06.680 there is that historically, based on bogus science that was 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:12.839 used to further subjugate and to justify subjugate black folks 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:18.559 and justify slavery, bananas were used to or black folks 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.920 rather were associated with more closely with you know, apes 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:31.120 and monkeys and things like this. Two kind of create 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.360 a bit of a divide between real humans quote unquote 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:41.720 and lesser beings so as to justify our servitude, you know, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.000 at that point in time. And so this is why 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.440 you'll if you watch you know, soccer games, you know, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.040 World Cup things like this, you know, if there's a 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.040 black team or black player that's doing really well, you know, 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.720 they'll throw bananas on the field because what they're trying 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.640 to do is make a connection between black people and monkeys. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.280 And I'm not going to pretend like, you know, us 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.679 having brown skin, and you know many of you know, 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.120 many apes having you know, a brown color to their 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.920 fur or whatever. You know, it's it's just a silly 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.280 connection and a juvenile connection that people make, especially folks 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.120 that wake up early in the morning, get dressed, pack 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.880 a banana in their kit, and then go to the 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.559 game with the specific intention of throwing it as soon 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.160 as a black person, you know, scores a goal or whatever. 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.720 So these things are based in history, so you know, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.720 hence my reaction walking into my studio scening banana. Now 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.079 we're we could talk about mot liquor, we could talk 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.600 about you know, fried chicken, you know, and and maybe 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.400 on later shows we will, but you know, today the 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.640 research was done on watermelon. So allow me to share 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:48.800 one thing that I know to be true. And you 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:54.120 and I've talked about this before. Q. There's a song, 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.120 the ice Cream Truck song. Remember we talked about this, 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:06.560 So the ice cream Truck song was called Inward Love 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:10.679 of Watermelon. So next time you hear the ice cream truck, 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:12.960 you know, coming down the street, just know that the 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:18.760 actual melody from that music was originally pinned in the 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.200 title of that song was called in word love of Watermelon. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.480 Now the name changed after that once the in word 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:31.000 fell out of fashion or whatever. But the reason that 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.600 that song became associated with ice cream trucks is because 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.400 once upon a time, you know, whenever there were treats 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:43.200 given out, ice cream went to white folks and watermelon 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.440 went to black folks because it was cheaper, you know whatever, 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:47.400 And so it became known as like kind of the 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.480 black man's or the black man's ice cream, you know, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.840 the negro's ice cream. And this is why you see 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:59.280 these these caricatures, these these drawings, these cartoons, like the 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.480 ones that I've in my backyard, these black folks holding 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.240 a huge watermelon being so happy when they eat it. Right, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:10.200 It's like it was known as the equivalent of what 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.480 ice cream would because many obviously many black folks back 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.600 in this time never were able to taste ice cream 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.240 because it was too much of a delicacy, or otherwise 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.720 it was too expensive. Watermelons were cheaper. But another thing 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:29.360 about this is that and I pulled this from the Atlantic. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.000 There's an article written by William R. Black and I'll 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:34.400 read this and I want to hear your thoughts. Cu 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.120 it goes. But the stereotype that African Americans are excessively 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.480 fond of watermelon emerged for a specific historical reason and 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.960 served a specific political purpose. This is an addition to, 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.680 you know, white folks eating ice cream, black folks eating watermelon. 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.320 So I'll continue. The trope came in full first when 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.920 slaves won their emancipation during the Civil War. Free black 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:02.040 people grew ate and sold watermelons, and in doing so 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.200 made the fruit a symbol of their freedom. Southern whites, 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.920 threatened by blacks newfound freedom, responded by making the fruit 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:16.440 a symbol of black people's perceived uncleanliness, laziness, childishness, and 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:21.320 unwanted public presence. This racist trope then exploded in American 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:26.080 popular culture, becoming so pervasive that its historical origin became obscure. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.760 Few Americans in nineteen hundred would have guessed the stereotype 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.520 was less than half a century old, and what they 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:39.800 would do. And just so you know, watermelons haven't always 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.360 just been associated with black people. It's been associated with 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:48.000 other types of people, Arab people, you know, and typically 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.640 it's associated with poor folks. And you know, the way 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.720 that it's been politicized is, you know, you're going to 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.760 have you know, watermelon rinds in your neighborhood all over 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:00.760 the streets if you allow these folks to come in, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:02.440 or if you don't clean up this mess, or whatever 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:06.880 the case is. But in this country, you know, this 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:13.280 represented economic freedom or you know, economic advancement we'll call it. 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:20.879 And poor Southern whites obviously didn't like that. Still don't 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.040 you know, like that a lot if you know their 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:31.000 voting records or anything to go by. And really, at 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.159 that time, and I believe largely today as well, you 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:40.040 can make a case for it really needed, really needed 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.880 someone to blame their economic problems on. That wasn't the government, 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.440 because how in the world could you criticize the government, 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.239 you know, But let's blame these folks taking up all 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.680 the jobs, you know, and doing whatever, selling their watermelons 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.600 and making their little bit of money and creating some 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:01.280 sort of economic independence from us, rather than coming to 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.399 work for us or coming to you know, whatever it is. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.280 And so we end up with now fast forward. The 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:16.040 legacy of these ideas and the legacy of these stereotypes 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:23.600 results in people nowadays eating watermelon not in plain view 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.560 of someone who might not appreciate the fact that it's 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.600 just food. Now you listening, you might think, why in 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.800 the world would I think anything other than it's just 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.359 a food, And that's a person eating their lunch or whatever, 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.520 which makes perfect sense. And my hat's off to you 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:43.000 because you've either managed to escape, you know, being indoctrinated 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:47.760 in this way, or you know, you just maybe you 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.800 really just don't see it that way. And maybe a 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.400 lot of people don't see it that way, but there 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.439 are some people that do see it that way. You know, 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:00.800 we saw lots of these cartoons with you know, watermelon flavor, toothpaste, 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.840 you know, when Obama was in office, and you know, 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.760 these things still exist. You know, they're they're deeply rooted 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:12.440 in the American history and American legacy and American psyche, 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.800 but they also exist for us, for black folks. You know, 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.600 I didn't, I wouldn't I. You know, banana is a banana. 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.040 If you like bananas, that stands to reason other human 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.760 beings or creatures that share this planet will like bananas too, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.320 Same with fried chicken, same with watermelon, same with anything. 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.720 You know, we're all the same, you know, from a 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.480 scientific standpoint, meaning that we all consume foods, eat them. 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.720 You know, they nourish our bodies, and they fortify us 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:43.879 and allow us to live full lives. But far be 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:45.560 it for me to ever eat a banana in front 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:50.760 of a white person who doesn't appreciate the fact that 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.120 it's truly just a banana and a human being eating it. 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.679 I would be so. I would be so ashamed to 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.600 do that right now, at thirty nine years old, you 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:02.400 know I would, or else I would have to break 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.919 a piece of it off and eat it like this. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.200 I couldn't peel it and a hold it in the 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.960 hand the way that a person might imagine a monkey 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.879 would do. So I want to get your reaction to 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.320 this que because I'm not sure how much of this 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.320 you knew. I knew you knew about the watermelon song, 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.560 but you know, I want to get your thoughts. We 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:21.439 got about four minutes. 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.760 But once upon a time, during my residency at a 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.320 property I won't name as, I showed up to DJ 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.479 now at this place, the turntables, the DJ booth were 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.520 set up on a stage, and on that stage they 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.199 had created sort of like a little lounge for me, 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.800 couches and the table, and I would come in and 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.879 my food would be there, my food and whatever I 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.120 wanted to drink for me and my guests, whoever came 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:54.000 with me. And the first time I showed up because 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.959 because I don't drink, I made food a part of 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:58.560 my writer. 0:20:58.560 --> 0:20:59.840 Instead of alcohol. 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.439 And the first time I showed up at this place 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:11.040 where I was, you know, in two thousand and maybe 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:16.120 twelve or thirteen, the only black person in the establishment. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.679 The food that was waiting for me was fried chicken 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:21.480 and watermelon. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:22.240 Wow. 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.359 Now this was a really tough spot for me to 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.439 be in because, as everybody is that's listening to this 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:35.840 show knows, fried chicken and watermelon is incredible. 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:38.080 It's delicious. 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:46.159 It's half nutritious, but mostly it's delicious, and similar to 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.720 what you just said, I'm on stage, so I don't 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.000 want to sit on stage in this venue full of 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.800 people that aren't black and eat chicken and watermelon on 0:21:54.880 --> 0:22:01.000 stage like I'm the show, right, And don't think the 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.960 chef meant for that to feel how it felt when 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.680 I got there, okay. But as you know, it absolutely 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.639 felt exactly how you think it felt when I walked 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.840 into this place and they're serving me fried chicken and watermelon. 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.920 And my options were to laugh really hard or start 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:19.880 flipping tables over. 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:25.000 So I chose to laugh really hard. And similar to. 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.879 The racist portrayal of watermelon, the foods in and of 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:32.080 themselves are not racist, but in Jim Crow America, in 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.720 a way to make newly free black people look like 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.159 savage animals, there was all these cartoons and caricatures and 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.960 drawings and paintings that showed us very delightfully and ostentatiously 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:48.520 eating chicken and watermelon, with the juices flying everywhere, and 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:56.439 us in this delight of carelessness and. 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:57.080 As they would portray it somehow savagery. 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.760 And it wasn't that just that watermelon was inexpensive, but 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.199 it was what you touched on earlier. Watermelon at that 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:09.000 time gave us a way to grow something for ourselves, 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:12.359 to consume it, to sell it, to have some sort 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:20.040 of entrepreneurship, business acumen, and independence. So let's make that 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.200 bad too, right, Let's make that evil. Let's make that bad, 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.440 Let's make that grotesque, Let's make that somehow beneath us, 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:29.560 and let's make fun of them, right, Let's exaggerate all 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:34.480 their features, and let's show the world how these savage 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:39.080 animals look when they're eating their chicken and watermelon, and 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:42.639 really make a show of it. So yeah, I mean, 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:45.520 I really am just echoing things that you've said already. 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:50.160 It's just food, and in this case, really really good food. 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:50.920 Right. 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.280 Fried chicken might be the most sold food item on earth, 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.480 especially in this country, and we're thirteen percent of the population. 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.720 So please don't think it just black people eating it. 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:06.359 Right, But that trope has lasted the test of time, 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:10.720 as have so many things from that period in our 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.800