Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2: A lot of people, including my co host, called me
Speaker 2: Q Ward and mostly that's because my name is Quentin,
Speaker 2: so Q is the short and then Ward is.
Speaker 3: My last name. So that's just kind of how that
Speaker 3: whole thing came to be. Very thorough.
Speaker 1: Indeed, stick around today's episode. We got a lot of
Speaker 1: cool stuff to talk about, some things you might not
Speaker 1: know and that you might want to know, including the
Speaker 1: story about watermelons and their relationship to black folks in
Speaker 1: this country. We're going to ask the question our watermelons racist,
Speaker 1: which I know, on his face sounds crazy, but trust me,
Speaker 1: it's worth exploring a little. Later in the show, we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about a recent law that was put
Speaker 1: forth in Philadelphia concerning traffic stops and then wanting to
Speaker 1: ban non serious, non will use the word criminal traffic stops,
Speaker 1: and how feasible that approach to policing might be. Q
Speaker 1: and I are going to both adopt different sides and
Speaker 1: have a bit of a discussion with respect to that,
Speaker 1: so definitely stick around for that. A way black history fact,
Speaker 1: We're going to check in with an article from PBS
Speaker 1: dot Org offered by Henry Lewis Gates Junior about forty
Speaker 1: acres and a mule. A lot of folks, as it
Speaker 1: turns out, are not familiar with that or have heard
Speaker 1: it and do not know how intricate it was and
Speaker 1: how well thought out it was, and so forth and
Speaker 1: so on. So you know, we have the show, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna make sure to share a little bit of
Speaker 1: that with you. But first, like we always do at
Speaker 1: this time, we are going to discuss what we like
Speaker 1: to call some ebony excellence. Is that all right with UQ?
Speaker 3: Yes, sir? All I do is win no matter what.
Speaker 1: If you have Netflix, you might have seen an advertisement
Speaker 1: for a movie called The Harder They Fall. And the
Speaker 1: reason that we pick this for our ebony excellence is because,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, it is the number one streamed
Speaker 1: movie on Netflix. And that's something that we feel is
Speaker 1: quite an accomplishment. Historically in Hollywood, you know, when there's
Speaker 1: an all black cast, that's you know a lot of
Speaker 1: times people tend to shy away from those scripts. You know,
Speaker 1: they they try to alter them, you know, that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. This is something that is very well known,
Speaker 1: you know, and then you know, money. It's often harder
Speaker 1: to come buy money for you know, black movies, we'll
Speaker 1: call them. But you know, with the stereotype being that
Speaker 1: on all black casts is a bad bet. We like
Speaker 1: to see movies like you know, Black Panther. We like
Speaker 1: to see movies like this one that really shine and
Speaker 1: really show that there's an interest in this type of filmmaking.
Speaker 1: It's one of the few westerns where the cast members
Speaker 1: include black people, because a lot of folks don't even
Speaker 1: know that there were black cowboys, but you can, as
Speaker 1: you can imagine, at that time, you know, it was
Speaker 1: a lot easier to make your way, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're not in the Deep South, and maybe you're a
Speaker 1: little bit more West if you're a black person. And
Speaker 1: another cool thing is that, although this is a fictional film,
Speaker 1: all the characters are based on real cowboys, lawmens, and
Speaker 1: outlaws of the nineteenth century American West, And so we
Speaker 1: wanted to take a moment to honor all those involved
Speaker 1: with that movie. Jay Z was one of the producers,
Speaker 1: and there's lots of neat little easter eggs that you know.
Speaker 1: One of the trains in the movie has Chadwick Boseman's
Speaker 1: name on it a lot of the shops, you know,
Speaker 1: in the movies. You know, it's just a really awesome
Speaker 1: effort and artistic expression, and of course it brings some
Speaker 1: light to something a lot of folks know about. So
Speaker 1: have any excellence the hearder they fall. If you haven't
Speaker 1: seen it, be sure to check it out. Now onward,
Speaker 1: today we are going to talk about watermelons. That's that's
Speaker 1: such a that's such a funny thing. Now, okay, let
Speaker 1: me paint a picture for you. So let's say you're
Speaker 1: not a black person, right, you might be thinking, what's
Speaker 1: wrong with the watermelon? They grow out of the ground.
Speaker 1: It's food. Human beings eat food that grow out of
Speaker 1: the ground all over the world. That's kind of what
Speaker 1: we do.
Speaker 3: It's delicious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how about that? You know, But as it turns out,
Speaker 1: you know, there are some things that exist in our
Speaker 1: world by our I mean, you know, black folks, that
Speaker 1: are really the legacy of a very hurtful relationship that
Speaker 1: black folks have had with this country going all the
Speaker 1: way back to the beginning, and they still persist to
Speaker 1: this day. And so recently I came across you know,
Speaker 1: I live in an older house, and you know, the
Speaker 1: people that owned this house before I bought it had
Speaker 1: some racist caricature black folks advertisements in the backyard, and
Speaker 1: I never discovered them. I lived here. This has been
Speaker 1: twelve years I've lived here. Never discovered them until recently
Speaker 1: because they're posted onto the back of a beam in
Speaker 1: my backyard. Anyway, I saw this stuff and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I saw, you know, there was
Speaker 1: a person with black skinned cartoon, big lips of course,
Speaker 1: and he has like a watermelon that's huge, and he's
Speaker 1: like smiling ear to ear, and I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what. At some point, I need to make sure
Speaker 1: that I discussed this with our listeners on the show.
Speaker 1: So a bit about certain types of foods. I'll tell
Speaker 1: a personal story. I might have shared a bit of
Speaker 1: this before, but for those that don't know, Once upon
Speaker 1: a time, I was working at a radio station in Phoenix, Arizona,
Speaker 1: and I was the production director of this radio station.
Speaker 1: And I worked in a studio that was separate from
Speaker 1: the broadcast studios. Right, So there was three studios, two
Speaker 1: for broadcast excuse me, one for production where I made
Speaker 1: the radio commercials. I did the imaging. I basically made
Speaker 1: everything that wasn't a song or wasn't a jock talking live,
Speaker 1: and that was my job. Everyone knew that that was
Speaker 1: my studio, and I know it belonged to the station,
Speaker 1: but there were all my posters up in there, all
Speaker 1: my magazine covers, you know, because I was a jock too.
Speaker 1: But that was where I spent most of my my day.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't there all the time. I had, you know,
Speaker 1: my creature comforts in there, and then whoever needed to
Speaker 1: come in the studio and use it with me, I
Speaker 1: was the one recording their voice. Outside of that, it
Speaker 1: was my studio. One day, I there was a recent
Speaker 1: changing of the guard at the radio station. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, one day right after that, I walked into
Speaker 1: my studio and I saw a banana on the mixer.
Speaker 1: The mixer is the big sort of device with all
Speaker 1: the buttons and faders in a recording studio. So I
Speaker 1: had one of those as well because I had to
Speaker 1: you know, mix the mics and so forth. There's a
Speaker 1: banana sitting right on there. When I walked into the room,
Speaker 1: and immediately my heart sank, and immediately I felt like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I don't know if I should be afraid, angry.
Speaker 1: You know what action I should take? How do I
Speaker 1: you know? Because this felt very personal. It felt like
Speaker 1: an attack on my character and who I am, and
Speaker 1: an attack on my ancestors. You know, it's just it's just,
Speaker 1: you know. And for those that don't know, walking into
Speaker 1: a studio and seeing a banana there, you would naturally
Speaker 1: think maybe somebody left their banana there. It never even
Speaker 1: entered into my mind.
Speaker 2: It never.
Speaker 1: When I saw that banana, I knew for a fact
Speaker 1: that somebody it might have been the owner, and somebody
Speaker 1: left that for me to see, because it was right there,
Speaker 1: right in front of my seat, right where I couldn't
Speaker 1: miss it. And you know, when I say that, my
Speaker 1: heart sank in that. You know, that gripping fear, that
Speaker 1: paralytic fear that you feel when you are walking down
Speaker 1: the street and you see like a vicious dog in
Speaker 1: front of you with no chain and no one around, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, okay, I need to figure out what
Speaker 1: I need to do. It was that moment for me,
Speaker 1: and immediately I turned around, even walk into the room,
Speaker 1: I turned right back around and let the door close,
Speaker 1: and I went into the UH program director's office. Somebody
Speaker 1: who I felt like was a friend of mine. I
Speaker 1: still feel like that guy is a friend of mine.
Speaker 1: I didn't assume that it was him so to help
Speaker 1: paint that picture. He was always a good man to me.
Speaker 1: You know, it felt like a good man. He felt
Speaker 1: like like an ally, like the sort of person that
Speaker 1: would listen to this show. So I went into his
Speaker 1: office and I says, hey, man, I don't know what
Speaker 1: is going on here, but somebody just did something that
Speaker 1: was really out of pocket. And he's like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about. I was like, come here, let me
Speaker 1: show you. And then he got up and he went
Speaker 1: and he saw it and he had no idea. He's like,
Speaker 1: what am I looking for? I'm like, do you see
Speaker 1: the banana there on the console? And then when I
Speaker 1: pointed it out to him, because he had seen it,
Speaker 1: but when I pointed it out to him, he was like,
Speaker 1: uh oh, And he's like, I don't know what this is.
Speaker 1: I have no idea here. Let me get this out
Speaker 1: of your way, let me figure it out. Please don't
Speaker 1: worry about it. Right. So this is why I say
Speaker 1: I felt like he was a kind man. That was
Speaker 1: the reaction I would have expected from him, not that
Speaker 1: I was expecting anything, but he just seemed like that
Speaker 1: sort of a person. Anyway, he took the banana and
Speaker 1: he kind of said some kind words to kind of
Speaker 1: provide a sense of like I'm going to protect you.
Speaker 1: You know, for those that don't know, a program director
Speaker 1: is the boss of my position at that time, which
Speaker 1: would have been a production director and a jock. So
Speaker 1: he goes to his office and he does a little
Speaker 1: bit of research, and maybe an hour later he puts
Speaker 1: it all together. He's like, hey, as it turns out,
Speaker 1: the morning show guy needed to go into the studio
Speaker 1: to cut a promo, so he used your studio to
Speaker 1: do it because he had to make way for the
Speaker 1: afternoon or sorry, the midday woman to do her show,
Speaker 1: So he used your studio and that was part of
Speaker 1: his breakfast. And he just forgot it. You know, he
Speaker 1: was riding his motorcycle that day. He just forgot it.
Speaker 1: He just grabbed his helmet and this and that and
Speaker 1: the third and he just left it there. I don't
Speaker 1: think that it was anything directed toward you, so all
Speaker 1: was right with the world. But I think that that
Speaker 1: story illuminates just how jarring our meaning black folks relationship
Speaker 1: to food can be when it's observed through the lens
Speaker 1: of other races, and other races have the same type
Speaker 1: of these same types of issues. You know, foods are
Speaker 1: closely associated with culture, and if there's some way to
Speaker 1: pick on a culture, you know, usually it's the most
Speaker 1: obvious ones, you know, physical features, with the way people dress,
Speaker 1: what they eat, and so forth. Right, But you know,
Speaker 1: this is so that we can explain our experience to
Speaker 1: folks who might not otherwise know. Now, that was a banana,
Speaker 1: and obviously, or maybe it's not so obvious. The connection
Speaker 1: there is that historically, based on bogus science that was
Speaker 1: used to further subjugate and to justify subjugate black folks
Speaker 1: and justify slavery, bananas were used to or black folks
Speaker 1: rather were associated with more closely with you know, apes
Speaker 1: and monkeys and things like this. Two kind of create
Speaker 1: a bit of a divide between real humans quote unquote
Speaker 1: and lesser beings so as to justify our servitude, you know,
Speaker 1: at that point in time. And so this is why
Speaker 1: you'll if you watch you know, soccer games, you know,
Speaker 1: World Cup things like this, you know, if there's a
Speaker 1: black team or black player that's doing really well, you know,
Speaker 1: they'll throw bananas on the field because what they're trying
Speaker 1: to do is make a connection between black people and monkeys.
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to pretend like, you know, us
Speaker 1: having brown skin, and you know many of you know,
Speaker 1: many apes having you know, a brown color to their
Speaker 1: fur or whatever. You know, it's it's just a silly
Speaker 1: connection and a juvenile connection that people make, especially folks
Speaker 1: that wake up early in the morning, get dressed, pack
Speaker 1: a banana in their kit, and then go to the
Speaker 1: game with the specific intention of throwing it as soon
Speaker 1: as a black person, you know, scores a goal or whatever.
Speaker 1: So these things are based in history, so you know,
Speaker 1: hence my reaction walking into my studio scening banana. Now
Speaker 1: we're we could talk about mot liquor, we could talk
Speaker 1: about you know, fried chicken, you know, and and maybe
Speaker 1: on later shows we will, but you know, today the
Speaker 1: research was done on watermelon. So allow me to share
Speaker 1: one thing that I know to be true. And you
Speaker 1: and I've talked about this before. Q. There's a song,
Speaker 1: the ice Cream Truck song. Remember we talked about this,
Speaker 1: So the ice cream Truck song was called Inward Love
Speaker 1: of Watermelon. So next time you hear the ice cream truck,
Speaker 1: you know, coming down the street, just know that the
Speaker 1: actual melody from that music was originally pinned in the
Speaker 1: title of that song was called in word love of Watermelon.
Speaker 1: Now the name changed after that once the in word
Speaker 1: fell out of fashion or whatever. But the reason that
Speaker 1: that song became associated with ice cream trucks is because
Speaker 1: once upon a time, you know, whenever there were treats
Speaker 1: given out, ice cream went to white folks and watermelon
Speaker 1: went to black folks because it was cheaper, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: And so it became known as like kind of the
Speaker 1: black man's or the black man's ice cream, you know,
Speaker 1: the negro's ice cream. And this is why you see
Speaker 1: these these caricatures, these these drawings, these cartoons, like the
Speaker 1: ones that I've in my backyard, these black folks holding
Speaker 1: a huge watermelon being so happy when they eat it. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like it was known as the equivalent of what
Speaker 1: ice cream would because many obviously many black folks back
Speaker 1: in this time never were able to taste ice cream
Speaker 1: because it was too much of a delicacy, or otherwise
Speaker 1: it was too expensive. Watermelons were cheaper. But another thing
Speaker 1: about this is that and I pulled this from the Atlantic.
Speaker 1: There's an article written by William R. Black and I'll
Speaker 1: read this and I want to hear your thoughts. Cu
Speaker 1: it goes. But the stereotype that African Americans are excessively
Speaker 1: fond of watermelon emerged for a specific historical reason and
Speaker 1: served a specific political purpose. This is an addition to,
Speaker 1: you know, white folks eating ice cream, black folks eating watermelon.
Speaker 1: So I'll continue. The trope came in full first when
Speaker 1: slaves won their emancipation during the Civil War. Free black
Speaker 1: people grew ate and sold watermelons, and in doing so
Speaker 1: made the fruit a symbol of their freedom. Southern whites,
Speaker 1: threatened by blacks newfound freedom, responded by making the fruit
Speaker 1: a symbol of black people's perceived uncleanliness, laziness, childishness, and
Speaker 1: unwanted public presence. This racist trope then exploded in American
Speaker 1: popular culture, becoming so pervasive that its historical origin became obscure.
Speaker 1: Few Americans in nineteen hundred would have guessed the stereotype
Speaker 1: was less than half a century old, and what they
Speaker 1: would do. And just so you know, watermelons haven't always
Speaker 1: just been associated with black people. It's been associated with
Speaker 1: other types of people, Arab people, you know, and typically
Speaker 1: it's associated with poor folks. And you know, the way
Speaker 1: that it's been politicized is, you know, you're going to
Speaker 1: have you know, watermelon rinds in your neighborhood all over
Speaker 1: the streets if you allow these folks to come in,
Speaker 1: or if you don't clean up this mess, or whatever
Speaker 1: the case is. But in this country, you know, this
Speaker 1: represented economic freedom or you know, economic advancement we'll call it.
Speaker 1: And poor Southern whites obviously didn't like that. Still don't
Speaker 1: you know, like that a lot if you know their
Speaker 1: voting records or anything to go by. And really, at
Speaker 1: that time, and I believe largely today as well, you
Speaker 1: can make a case for it really needed, really needed
Speaker 1: someone to blame their economic problems on. That wasn't the government,
Speaker 1: because how in the world could you criticize the government,
Speaker 1: you know, But let's blame these folks taking up all
Speaker 1: the jobs, you know, and doing whatever, selling their watermelons
Speaker 1: and making their little bit of money and creating some
Speaker 1: sort of economic independence from us, rather than coming to
Speaker 1: work for us or coming to you know, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: And so we end up with now fast forward. The
Speaker 1: legacy of these ideas and the legacy of these stereotypes
Speaker 1: results in people nowadays eating watermelon not in plain view
Speaker 1: of someone who might not appreciate the fact that it's
Speaker 1: just food. Now you listening, you might think, why in
Speaker 1: the world would I think anything other than it's just
Speaker 1: a food, And that's a person eating their lunch or whatever,
Speaker 1: which makes perfect sense. And my hat's off to you
Speaker 1: because you've either managed to escape, you know, being indoctrinated
Speaker 1: in this way, or you know, you just maybe you
Speaker 1: really just don't see it that way. And maybe a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't see it that way, but there
Speaker 1: are some people that do see it that way. You know,
Speaker 1: we saw lots of these cartoons with you know, watermelon flavor, toothpaste,
Speaker 1: you know, when Obama was in office, and you know,
Speaker 1: these things still exist. You know, they're they're deeply rooted
Speaker 1: in the American history and American legacy and American psyche,
Speaker 1: but they also exist for us, for black folks. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't, I wouldn't I. You know, banana is a banana.
Speaker 1: If you like bananas, that stands to reason other human
Speaker 1: beings or creatures that share this planet will like bananas too,
Speaker 1: Same with fried chicken, same with watermelon, same with anything.
Speaker 1: You know, we're all the same, you know, from a
Speaker 1: scientific standpoint, meaning that we all consume foods, eat them.
Speaker 1: You know, they nourish our bodies, and they fortify us
Speaker 1: and allow us to live full lives. But far be
Speaker 1: it for me to ever eat a banana in front
Speaker 1: of a white person who doesn't appreciate the fact that
Speaker 1: it's truly just a banana and a human being eating it.
Speaker 1: I would be so. I would be so ashamed to
Speaker 1: do that right now, at thirty nine years old, you
Speaker 1: know I would, or else I would have to break
Speaker 1: a piece of it off and eat it like this.
Speaker 1: I couldn't peel it and a hold it in the
Speaker 1: hand the way that a person might imagine a monkey
Speaker 1: would do. So I want to get your reaction to
Speaker 1: this que because I'm not sure how much of this
Speaker 1: you knew. I knew you knew about the watermelon song,
Speaker 1: but you know, I want to get your thoughts. We
Speaker 1: got about four minutes.
Speaker 2: But once upon a time, during my residency at a
Speaker 2: property I won't name as, I showed up to DJ
Speaker 2: now at this place, the turntables, the DJ booth were
Speaker 2: set up on a stage, and on that stage they
Speaker 2: had created sort of like a little lounge for me,
Speaker 2: couches and the table, and I would come in and
Speaker 2: my food would be there, my food and whatever I
Speaker 2: wanted to drink for me and my guests, whoever came
Speaker 2: with me. And the first time I showed up because
Speaker 2: because I don't drink, I made food a part of
Speaker 2: my writer.
Speaker 3: Instead of alcohol.
Speaker 2: And the first time I showed up at this place
Speaker 2: where I was, you know, in two thousand and maybe
Speaker 2: twelve or thirteen, the only black person in the establishment.
Speaker 2: The food that was waiting for me was fried chicken
Speaker 2: and watermelon.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Now this was a really tough spot for me to
Speaker 2: be in because, as everybody is that's listening to this
Speaker 2: show knows, fried chicken and watermelon is incredible.
Speaker 3: It's delicious.
Speaker 2: It's half nutritious, but mostly it's delicious, and similar to
Speaker 2: what you just said, I'm on stage, so I don't
Speaker 2: want to sit on stage in this venue full of
Speaker 2: people that aren't black and eat chicken and watermelon on
Speaker 2: stage like I'm the show, right, And don't think the
Speaker 2: chef meant for that to feel how it felt when
Speaker 2: I got there, okay. But as you know, it absolutely
Speaker 2: felt exactly how you think it felt when I walked
Speaker 2: into this place and they're serving me fried chicken and watermelon.
Speaker 2: And my options were to laugh really hard or start
Speaker 2: flipping tables over.
Speaker 3: So I chose to laugh really hard. And similar to.
Speaker 2: The racist portrayal of watermelon, the foods in and of
Speaker 2: themselves are not racist, but in Jim Crow America, in
Speaker 2: a way to make newly free black people look like
Speaker 2: savage animals, there was all these cartoons and caricatures and
Speaker 2: drawings and paintings that showed us very delightfully and ostentatiously
Speaker 2: eating chicken and watermelon, with the juices flying everywhere, and
Speaker 2: us in this delight of carelessness and.
Speaker 3: As they would portray it somehow savagery.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't that just that watermelon was inexpensive, but
Speaker 2: it was what you touched on earlier. Watermelon at that
Speaker 2: time gave us a way to grow something for ourselves,
Speaker 2: to consume it, to sell it, to have some sort
Speaker 2: of entrepreneurship, business acumen, and independence. So let's make that
Speaker 2: bad too, right, Let's make that evil. Let's make that bad,
Speaker 2: Let's make that grotesque, Let's make that somehow beneath us,
Speaker 2: and let's make fun of them, right, Let's exaggerate all
Speaker 2: their features, and let's show the world how these savage
Speaker 2: animals look when they're eating their chicken and watermelon, and
Speaker 2: really make a show of it. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I really am just echoing things that you've said already.
Speaker 2: It's just food, and in this case, really really good food.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Fried chicken might be the most sold food item on earth,
Speaker 2: especially in this country, and we're thirteen percent of the population.
Speaker 3: So please don't think it just black people eating it.
Speaker 2: Right, But that trope has lasted the test of time,
Speaker 2: as have so many things from that period in our
Speaker 2: history that was made to look that was created to
Speaker 2: make us look beneath and somehow less than and somehow
Speaker 2: less civilized and more savage and more.
Speaker 3: Simple, if you will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I know exactly what you mean. You know,
Speaker 1: there's it's come up before, and you know, I think
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle mentioned it. He's like, you know, all this
Speaker 1: time I thought I like chicken because it was delicious.
Speaker 1: Comes to turn out I'm genetically predisposed to lack of chicken,
Speaker 1: you know, Like, just to make a joke out of it.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm glad we got a chance to touch
Speaker 1: on that, and just something to keep in mind, you know,
Speaker 1: just something to be sensitive about, and you know, we'll
Speaker 1: get where we're going, so not not too much to
Speaker 1: worry about. But our job is to teach, so that's
Speaker 1: what we do. Anyway, stick around your radios. We're coming
Speaker 1: back with more Civic Cipher right after this