1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: I'm using every level available to me to bring down 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: prices for the very to diminish the consequences of that 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: are dangerous for our country. Everyone can agree that dis 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: inflation is very painful. Bloomberg Sound On, Politics, Policy and 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: perspective from DC's top names. Are we about to enter 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: a new period based on the legislation we're seeing of 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: government cracking down on big tax I could worry about 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: that a lot, a lot, a lot. Bloomberg Sound On 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the threshold 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: of the weekend and the fastest hour in politics, as 12 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: we tackle some of the most pressing issues with a 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: special guest. Steve Balmer is with us, the founder of 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: us A Fact, the owner of the l A Clippers, 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: former CEO of Microsoft, and more on his initiative to 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: make government more trans parent and facts easier to find. 17 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: We'll also talk about the impact of inflation, the tech 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: route lately, and what might be next for anti trust 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: here in Washington. Later, to lawmakers reach across the aisle 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: and get something done, We'll have both Congressmen Dusty Johnson 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: Republican from South Dakota, and John Gara Mendi, a Democrat 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: from California, on their new legislation to lower shipping costs 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: and inflation. You know, we talk every day here on 24 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio about government policies, the impact they have on 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: the economy, on people's lives, and in the political sphere. 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: The truth is often tested by the debate. Facts are 27 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: used and abused, if not overlooked. Not everyone has a 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 1: Bloomberg in front of him. That's why Steve Balmer launched 29 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: a nonprofit called USA Facts, which gathers massive amounts of 30 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: government data and puts it together, makes it accessible in 31 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: a way that people can understand the impact of policies 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: and specifically what we're spending on them. It now boasts 33 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: an audience about twenty millions, equal to the size of 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: a lot of media companies. And I'm glad to say 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: that we're joined by Steve Balmer, of course, the former 36 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: CEO of Microsoft current owner of the l A Clippers, 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: along with his work at USA Facts. Steve, welcome back 38 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg. It's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: having me. I wanted to start with a fun basketball question, 40 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: but well, as you know now, I'm from Boston and 41 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: I'm just running on empty today. You understand this, I do, 42 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: I do. I can be sympathetic, thank you. You know, 43 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: we're always hungry for data here at Bloomberg. I'm guessing 44 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: you know how to work this terminal a lot better 45 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: than I do, actually, But that's why we were drawn 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: to the work that you're doing at USA Facts, and 47 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate your being here to talk to us about it. 48 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: The data tell a story and bring context through facts 49 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: that at time in our history or the idea of 50 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: facts is being challenged. Sometimes. Part of the problem that 51 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: we experience, Steve here, in the news media is the 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: splintering of audiences, right, people seeking information to reinforce what 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: they already believe. You're out with your annual report here. 54 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: How do you get this in front of people? Well, 55 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: a lot of work, actually, and we do a combination 56 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: of trying to help people find via search, our newsletter, 57 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: come to us directly, and we also buy a lot 58 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: of advertising. Even though we're not for profit, we really 59 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: want people to get the facts, and we're out there 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: social media primarily encouraging people too. And when we say 61 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: the facts, we're saying two things. We're saying numbers, and 62 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: we're saying history, no forecasts, no forecasts adjectives. Adjectives can 63 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: get pretty partisan. Ironically, yes they can't. Numbers don't get 64 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: very partisan. So we try to we try to stick 65 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: to those two principles. And of course we're only using 66 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: government numbers. Um. I know even those are suspect to 67 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: some people. I have a lot of faith though in 68 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: our our government and our statistical agencies. Is the aim 69 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: to get this in front of people directly though this 70 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: is a you know, a directed consumer product if you 71 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: will or do you want to see news organizations using 72 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: this in the context of their story? Is is is it 73 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: all of the above? All the above? Okay, I would 74 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: say all the above policymakers, media, but primarily consumers. At 75 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: the end of the day, we we produce a lot 76 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: of things. We produce uh and your report. Your audience 77 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: will understand the notion of producing a ten K Securities 78 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: and Exchange Commission report more detail, very dry, just the numbers. 79 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: We essentially have a reference library that's searchable on our 80 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: site to find important numbers and graphics that people might 81 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: have that are not in our annual documents. And then 82 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: we try to keep up with current affairs. Um, I'll 83 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: find a bullet USA facts dot Org. There you go. 84 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: We're not for profits. I think a little announcements. Okay, 85 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you that people have lost 86 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: trust in government institutions. This has been a big lesson 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: over the past couple of years. Are we at a 88 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: point based don't you just said about words versus numbers? 89 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: Are numbers more valuable than words right now? Numbers in 90 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: graphic Some people don't like numbers. I mean, they just 91 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: don't resonate. It's just not in people's mind. Charts do 92 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: do more good for some people. But that's a way 93 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: of delivering numbers. So it is a way of delivering numbers. 94 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: But it's an important distinction. I don't want to scare 95 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: anybody off and just to say, look, if you don't 96 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: want to look at tables and numbers, that's fine. Now 97 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: there are people who I would say just aren't interested, 98 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: uh in the news, or they're not interested in that 99 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: middle ground where you really want to see what's going on, 100 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: What really is the quality of our bridges and roads, 101 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: what really has happened with inflation? If I said to 102 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: you a fuel prices today, inflation adjusted, are exactly what 103 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: they were pretty much in two thousand seven. Most people go, WHOA, 104 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: that's but it's true. It might not make people feel 105 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: any better because people get adjusted to those lower prices. 106 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: And you know, this is not a USA facts point 107 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: of view, but it is my exception. The citizens in 108 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: the United States are our population. Our population likes consistency, 109 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: and when things go up and down, whether it's prices 110 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: or employment or the stock market, that's unsettling to people 111 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: because they get used to a certain a certain way 112 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: of doing things. And uh, you can see a lot 113 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: of that in the numbers that are available. Some things 114 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: just keep getting better, which is awesome. So it's numbers 115 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: against the backdrop of history. It is you have to 116 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: have that context for them to matter without context versus history. 117 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: Firsts population, some numbers grow just because our population grows. Uh, 118 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: in the context of other numbers that surround. Foreign aid 119 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: is the easiest example. Foreign aid is roughly one percent 120 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: of all government spending. And yet I think many Americans 121 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: will say no foreign aid if we just cut it. 122 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: And I think most people think foreign aid goes to 123 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: poor cunt trees. It doesn't. It actually goes mostly to 124 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: countries with whom we have some kind of military interaction. 125 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: Our country is trying to emerge from one of the 126 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: most challenging periods in our history. I think you would 127 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: agree a pandemic, an insurrection, if I can use that 128 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: word now, historic inflation, and a war in Ukraine. I 129 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,119 Speaker 1: was shocked to read that nearly one out of every 130 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: seven hundred fifteen people died last year from COVID. What 131 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: a statistic. That's only in the US, which helped to 132 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: lower the average life expectancy based on your report by 133 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: almost two years. Where are we in this recovery culturally, economically, Well, 134 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: it strikes me, you know, a million people roughly have died, 135 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: and if you look at the number of people who 136 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: died in versus the difference is almost exactly the number 137 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: of people who died from COVID. So life has been 138 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: consistent except for this COVID overlaid, which has been serious 139 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: and real. The third largest killer if you will, in 140 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: what's COVID behind only heart disease and cancer, which are 141 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: generally the big two. So it is a It is 142 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: a big deal for sure, and everybody knows that. How 143 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: are we coming out now we can take a look 144 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: at the numbers hospitalization, which we have on USA Facts 145 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: hospitalization cases, deaths. The death rate is down quite dramatically, 146 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: and that's an adjective, but if you look at it today, 147 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: I think it's roughly three odd people plus or minus 148 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: that are dying every day. And I'm not saying that's 149 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: a trivial number, but I will say in my own case, 150 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: I've gone from being super super careful about COVID to 151 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: just being careful. And the numbers do influence the way 152 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: I think about this. That's the thing. Though this has 153 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: impacted people's worldview. It's hard to to measure that with numbers. 154 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: It is in the short run, and it's not in 155 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: the long run. So well, in the long run, we're 156 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: gonna see are we driving the same number of miles 157 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: that we did pre COVID. We're gonna see what's going 158 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: on with commercial office space. Is it the same. We're 159 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: gonna see whether we're producing the same level of of 160 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: c O two or will things because of the change 161 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: in the structure of the economy. Will that influence emissions? 162 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: We will say, see what happens with wages. We will 163 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: see which sectors of the economy generate more jobs. I mean, 164 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: there actually been an interesting transformation if you take a 165 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: look at jobs and job openings, you know, out of 166 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: some sectors and into warehousing and transportation logistics, it's been 167 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: a huge grower. And if you stop and say, okay, 168 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: that matches my mental model, we're in the Amazon uber 169 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: eats generation because of the pandemic. It makes sense. You're 170 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: talking about measuring our behavior though, right, kind of getting 171 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: a sense of what we're doing with our day. It's 172 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: hard to it's hard to measure someone's own perception of 173 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: their more mentality. Yes I can't. I can't dispute that, 174 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: But let me even take that one on just a 175 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: little bit, just a little bit. Life expectancy. We don't 176 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: like forecasts. We don't do forecast understood at USA facts. 177 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: Life expectancy is actually a forecast and kind of a 178 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: wild forecast. We had a pandemic last year. The life 179 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: expectancy comes down below almost two years. But that's where 180 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: somebody born today. Are we going to have another pandemic 181 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: in the next seventy two years. I don't know how 182 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: the numbers are done. I think they're done professionally. The 183 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: thing we can look at is the average age at 184 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: which people die. And if you're thinking, I'm sixty six 185 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: years old, average person in America pre pandemic, I don't know. 186 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: The number off the top of my head would be 187 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: seventy two points something or seventy three approximately. I'm sixty 188 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: six years old. Now I have to remember that I'm 189 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily going to die at the average age of death. 190 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: With with that said, that probably represents my here and now. 191 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: The thing that's going to get into my psyche is 192 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: how long do I have? At least it gets into 193 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: my say, which allows you to plan around uh. I 194 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: would like to ask you a little bit more about 195 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: what's happening in the economy right now. The issue of 196 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: inflation is overwhelming just about everything else on people's minds, 197 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: and it's become a big political football here in Washington. 198 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: If people lost sight of reality when it comes to this, 199 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: the ability that politicians in Washington have to influence the 200 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: economy and prices specifically, are people asking for the impossible? Well, 201 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: there's plenty of data that will give you perspective on this. 202 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: The thing I encourage people to look at is chart 203 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: what's going on with GDP. Chart what's going on with 204 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: interest rates? We have it all all USA facts dot org. 205 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: Look at what's happened for long term investment in our 206 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: economy through capital expenditures and R and D not just 207 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: by government but by private industry, and then ask yourself 208 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: which things are consistent no matter what government does? Is 209 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: R and D expenditure pretty consistent? The answer, by the 210 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: way to that one is yes, are some things wild swingers? Yeah, 211 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,479 Speaker 1: there's some things that are wild swingers, whether it's employment 212 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: or income. Many of them do correlate with a government action. 213 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you could see them on a chart, and 214 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: they're not all positive correlation. You know. I think many 215 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: people are very thankful for government response to the pandemic, 216 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: and yet somebody can look at that and say, huh, 217 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: I wonder if government response to the pandemic had anything 218 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: to do with the current situation that we're in. It's 219 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: it's a hotly debated topic. You're not going to try 220 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: to give causality. But when people wake up every morning 221 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: and say, well, damn it, Joe Biden, how come you 222 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: haven't fixed this since yesterday? Or the Federal Reserve, when 223 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: is this going to be done? There's only so much 224 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: perfect Washington can do. Perhaps it's because you know, I'm 225 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: very have been fortunate and very well off. My read 226 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: is the government responds often triggers a positive and a 227 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: negative reaction. And if you go back and take a 228 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: look at what happened before two USA facts, go look 229 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: at it. I think you'll find some interesting things that happened. 230 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: And then we went way up and then we came 231 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: way down. Same thing before two thousand, the dot com bubble, 232 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: and early two thousands same thing. You know, we had 233 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: the pandemic, and obviously we needed to come out, but man, 234 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: did we come out too strong? Well, you know, as 235 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: you should. Should Washington do more? Or are we better off? 236 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: In some cases letting um, I'll just say the markets 237 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: and are currently take care of things. And I'm not 238 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: saying government shouldn't do anything. I think of government in 239 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: some senses that the insurance company of last resort. It 240 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: sounds like you see an impact, it just might not 241 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: always be a good one. Correct, correct, And there are 242 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: times it makes perfect sense in the pandemic, at least 243 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: at some level, for the government to step in made sense. 244 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: The levels of the question, yeah, the levels the question 245 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: infrastructure bill, Yeah, if you actually look at the numbers 246 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: as as presented by the Department of Transportation, guess what. 247 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: Our roads and bridges have been improving slowly but steadily 248 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: with the level of expenditure that existed pre the Infrastructure Bill. 249 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: In fact, most of the money gets spent anyway by 250 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: state and local government. Did we need an additional dose 251 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: of money? I just posed it as a question. You 252 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: mentioned two thousand one dot com. There's been a lot 253 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: of comparisons in this market downturn recently. Do you see parallels? 254 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: Are we in just a different world right now? We 255 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: are in a well, if you just look at the context, 256 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: we're in a different world. We're in a different interest 257 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: rate environment, which I think is is very important, different 258 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: profitability environment, a different profitability different uh are in terms 259 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: of deficit spending, which has its own characteristics in terms 260 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: of driving markets, driving inflation. So you don't feel that 261 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: despair that you may have back then. Ironically, as CEO 262 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: of Microsoft at the time, I did not feel despair. 263 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: I felt opportunity because while everybody else was running for 264 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: the hills in the tech industry saying the world's a disaster, 265 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: I saw that as a time for us to double 266 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: down and invest uh and build talent. Now we had 267 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: people who were panicky, but we could take care of 268 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: that in terms of what we did for people with compensation, 269 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: so that one it wasn't a broader it was a 270 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: less broad economic hit. I want to ask you about 271 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: Washington's relationship with high tech, because loving to hate big 272 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: tech has become a hobby for both Democrats and Republicans, 273 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: but for different reasons. It's it's actually fascinated to me. 274 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: Progressives think big tech is too big, what, too big 275 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: to fail? Whatever, it might be too influential. Conservatives say 276 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: their voices are being censored. As someone with firsthand experience 277 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: though dealing with antitrust at Microsoft, are we about to 278 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: enter a new period based on the legislation we're seeing 279 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: of government cracking down on big tech. I could worry 280 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: about that a lot, a lot, a lot, and now 281 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: we're sort of past USA facts. I'll just give you 282 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: my opinion. The great productivity improvement in our economy not 283 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: growth in people, not inflation, but the key driver of 284 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: GDP is productivity growth. My opinion, my reading would say 285 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: the great driver if that has been technology, and nobody 286 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: should want to slow down the innovation that comes from technology. 287 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: There's a role in the technical technology business for startups. 288 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: They change things. But there are also things that you 289 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: can only do if you have large R and D 290 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: budgets like Microsoft, Google, Apple, etcetera. So those are important things. 291 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: Now are there things where it's appropriate for government to 292 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: take a look and say, hey, something should change? I 293 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: believe that. I think part of the problem the way 294 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: that happens oftentimes those government wants to vilify the tech 295 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: I felt vilified when we got hit with an anti 296 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,959 Speaker 1: trust loss it. The truth is, we ran our business, 297 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: we ran it well, and then somebody did decide we 298 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: should change our practice. Not that it was evil, but 299 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: that wasn't the communication in the big tech world of today, 300 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: I think people are getting vilified as opposed to appropriately regulated. 301 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, I think regulations should come 302 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: from um the agencies as opposed to the Congress, because 303 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuance. If you say, hey, what 304 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: can you express or not express on Twitter or Facebook? 305 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: The truth of the matter is deciding those issues as 306 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: a matter of policy. There's complicated questions and you want 307 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: real experts on the government side in a issue to 308 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: the tech side. To figure those things out. So do 309 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: I worry about where things are going? Yeah? I worry 310 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: about R and D spending. I know we could slow 311 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: these tech companies down in ways we don't intend. It's 312 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: okay if there are ways in which we really intend 313 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,479 Speaker 1: through regulation, but I have a lot of concern about it. 314 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: As a majority shareholder of of Microsoft, I'm assuming you 315 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: still are. Do you worry then about the government stepping 316 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: in on this Activision acquisition? Is that still a good 317 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: idea in your view? I think the Activision and I've 318 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: said this to management team, I'm I'm excited about the 319 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: Activision acquisition. They want to do. They do need to 320 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: get through the heart Scot Rodino process. And you see 321 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren sending out tweets about it, and you start 322 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: to wonder. But yes, and no, there's a reason why 323 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: we have independent review and a Justice Department an FTC 324 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: that reviewed these kinds of transactions. They are not political decisions. 325 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: And you could say, hey, and some administrations things go 326 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: a little more this way, a little bit more that way, 327 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: which is true, but these are generally very high integrity 328 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: people who are trying to make the right decision for 329 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: for consumers. And businesses. Do you see it going through that? 330 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: I can't predict. I'm not close enough to the situation. 331 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: I'll just keep my fingers crossed. What do you do 332 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: for fun? Do you play an Xbox? No, my kids 333 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: are all gamers. I am not. I am not a gamer. 334 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: I will confession. People have very simple questions about someone 335 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: with your level of success. What do you do for fun? 336 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: And by the way, what are you doing here? You 337 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: could be on an island right now for fun. For me, um, 338 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: the most fun thing I did for most of my life, 339 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: for much of my life was go to my kids 340 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: sporting events. My kids are all grown now, they go 341 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: to your sporting exactly. Going to Clipper games is the 342 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: most fun thing I do. I mean, I play golf 343 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: and I exercise a variety of other things. But it 344 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: is just such a rush. Not not quite as good 345 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: as your kids games. There's nothing quite like about the 346 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: emotion and tied to that. But but being chairman of 347 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: the Clippers, you know, that's as they said, that's the 348 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: best thing to being there. Steve Balmber, thank you for 349 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: bringing us the data USA facts and for your insights 350 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: today on Bloomberg. Thanks a lot appreciate it. Fascinating conversation 351 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: you will only here on Bloomberg. Of course, speaking of inflation, 352 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: which we spent a little bit of time on, Charlie 353 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: Pellett mentioned this earlier, a new plan to fight inflation 354 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: being prepared by the White House and Congressional Democrats. This 355 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: just broke a short time ago, as I read on 356 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: the terminal advanced talks underway on a package that would 357 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: likely include capping the price of insulin. You've heard of these, 358 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: at least individually proposed already in investments in both clean 359 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: energy and fossil fuels that, according to our White House 360 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: team talking with sources and agreement they say, could emerge 361 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: as soon as next week. So next week could be 362 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: another doozy. The January six Committee, of course, resumes hearings 363 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: next week as well. And coming up, we're gonna take 364 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: a look at how this is playing before audiences, of course, 365 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: in our splintered media universe aforementioned, we're gonna get into 366 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: it with Bloomberg media reporter Jerry Smith check traffic and 367 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: markets on the way. Thanks for spending some time with 368 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: us on a Friday. It's sound on and this is 369 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: Bloomberg two more hearings are set for next week for 370 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: the Select Committee investigating the attack on the Capitol of 371 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: January six. As it went from prime time last week 372 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: to daytime this week, and we've been taking a look 373 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: at the ratings and getting a sense of how much 374 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: of an impact this might be having. People have been 375 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: trying to compare it to Watergate. Of course, uh, you know, 376 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: I ran contra think of the hearings that you know 377 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: have images burned in your brain that actually drew people 378 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: to their TV sets. Now there's a lot more than TV. 379 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: This is playing across Twitter and Facebook, social media and 380 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: everywhere else, chopped up in bits, and it's consumed in 381 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: different ways, which is why we wanted to talk about 382 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: this with Bloomberg Media reporter Jerry Smith. Jerry, thanks for 383 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: being with us. Let's start with what we know in 384 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: terms of TV ratings. I remember twenty million was the 385 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: number for the primetime debut. Where did it go from there? 386 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: So the second hearing earlier this week got about eleven 387 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: million viewers, so it was a decline from the first hearing. 388 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: But you know, it's important to note that it was 389 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: the first hearing was in prime time and the second 390 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: hearing started at at ten am in the morning. A 391 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: lot of people are at work, so I mean that 392 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: that has to have factored into the ratings being lower. 393 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: And of course a lot of people are watching at work, 394 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: and that's I guess that's the interesting part now of 395 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: capturing ratings and that this is the deal for all 396 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: traditional media because you're cannibalized to some extent or maybe 397 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: to a great extent by internet viewing people. There's streaming 398 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: it on Twitter on platforms that I don't know or 399 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: how how do these all get recognized? Right? The way 400 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: that we measure TV audiences, uh, is much more complicated 401 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: than it was for the Watergate hearings, where it was 402 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: just a few channels. I mean, people are streaming this 403 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: and there's not really a good way to count all 404 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: those eyeballs across TV and streaming. UM. So it's it's 405 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: an imperfect number that we're getting, but it is directionally 406 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: shows you how it's going to be a challenge for 407 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: this here, this committee to to continue after the first 408 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: hearing where they got twenty million viewers, which is a 409 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: pretty good number, you know, continue to draw that that 410 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: that audience for a congressional hearing it's a really good number. 411 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: Of course, to your point, I mean I said there 412 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: was an unsuspecting audience there. My gosh. You put it 413 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: on every network since Fox at eight o'clock and a 414 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: lot of people are gonna end up watching it. I'm 415 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: sure many intentional, but putting the context for us, uh, 416 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: if you can, Jerry, I mean, I guess against big 417 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: speeches State of the Union, maybe political conventions, what does 418 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: twenty million mean for politics? Well, I mean it's going 419 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: to be less than your state of the State of 420 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: Union addraft and it's going to be less than you know, 421 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: speeches where presidential candidates have accepted the nomination during the conventions. 422 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: But you know, it's right up there, pretty close to um, 423 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: you know the Bob Muller hearings that that got a 424 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: lot of attention. UM. So you know, eleven million, twenty million, 425 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: it's it's much larger than you're going to get for 426 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: most you know, entertainment television shows on TV these days. Yeah, right, absolutely. 427 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: The State of the Union this time around in two 428 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: had thirty two million, which was a drop of two 429 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: million from UH when Joe Biden was first talking to Congress. 430 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: It's interesting to look at the just the comparison here, 431 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: you know, whether this was the Oscars of politics or not. 432 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: Did you think they can duplicate that debut audience on 433 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: the last night because it goes back to prime time 434 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: for the last full smash hear ring. I think it's 435 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: gonna be challenging. I think there was a lot of 436 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: excitement and build up to the first hearing UM and 437 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, now we've had several hearings and and it's 438 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: possible that people have felt like they're getting a little 439 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: fatigued by it. UM. So that's a real challenge for 440 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: the hearing, the committee, and they're doing their best. I 441 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: mean they um, they're trying to really slickly produce these hearings. 442 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: UM there. It's not like the typical hearing where people 443 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: are you know, you're getting the raw footage and people 444 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,719 Speaker 1: are going on and on when they're answering questions. I mean, 445 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: a lot of these UM sound bites have been edited down. 446 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: These are video testimony in a lot of cases that 447 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: have been edited to really the most um, you know, 448 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: important sound bites. And they're even trying to tease what 449 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: they're going to have in the next hearing at the 450 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: end of the hearing to kind of almost as if 451 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: a TV show saying, you know, next yeah, stay tuned 452 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: for the next episode, that that sort of thing. So 453 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: they're doing the best they can to keep Americans engaged. Yeah, 454 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: they literally have been. Uh it's been interesting to to 455 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: consider the impact that that's this former president of ABC News, 456 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: that's they've they've hired Republicans have tried to make a 457 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: thing out of this, the impact that he's had on 458 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: the production values here. Um, you're a media reporter, you 459 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: do this for a living. What do you make of 460 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: the optics of it so far? Is that actually having 461 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: an impact? We've also had some, you know, pretty dry 462 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: opening statements. We've had some very cautious testimony in some cases. 463 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: How does this play to someone who's used to watch 464 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: in Law and Order at eight o'clock? You know, I mean, 465 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: it's it's a good question, and I think that it's um, 466 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's just it's very different than your 467 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: typical hearing, and it is more engaging than your typical hearing. 468 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: And that is something that the House Committee has really 469 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: tried to do. I mean, they really spent a lot 470 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: of time with their investigation, and they want They don't 471 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: want it to fall on deaf ears. They want to 472 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: keep people entertained and engaged to UM. So, you know, 473 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: it remains to be seen whether all the networks are 474 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: going to carry all the hearings. I was going to 475 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: ask you that we don't know that about the final 476 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: night either, do we. We don't know. I mean Fox 477 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: News got a lot of criticism for not carrying the 478 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: first hearing in prime time and instead they chose to 479 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: stick with their typical lineup of you know, Sean Hannity 480 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: and Tucker Carlson. They did air the second hearing, but 481 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: we don't know whether they're going to continue, and their 482 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: audience UM is certainly UM. You know, they're catering to 483 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: a Republican audience that UM maybe doesn't want to hear 484 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: some of the findings. So it's UM. You know, all 485 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: the most of the other networks are carrying it, but 486 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: UM and and people are watching online. I just think 487 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: when you have so many hearings, it's difficult to keep 488 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: people engaged. You find yourself watching it in sort of 489 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: long form on TV. Are you are you consuming it 490 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 1: in chunks on social media? Well, I mean that's that's 491 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: an excellent point. I just think this whole media landscape 492 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: is so different, and it's not just hearings, but but everything. 493 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: I mean, even sports, um, and certainly cable news. Is 494 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people are just going through Facebook and 495 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: Twitter and getting a little video clips um that people 496 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: have edited, um oftentimes edited in such a way that 497 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: that confirmed their political beliefs. So that's the media landscape 498 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: that we live in. It's a far cry from around 499 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: Contra hearings or the Watergate hearings. It's just a very 500 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: different world we live in now where people can kind 501 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: of create their own media world when there were three channels. 502 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: It certainly brings us back to our conversation earlier this 503 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: hour with Steve Palmer. Jerry, it's great to have you 504 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: with us. I appreciate your insights. Jerry Smith, Bloomberg media 505 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: reporter with us on Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew 506 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: and Washington. You made it to Friday and glad you're 507 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: here on the fastest hour in politics. As we turned 508 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: to something that actually got done, you could consider on 509 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, a D and an R. Two lawmakers in 510 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: an interesting approach towards solving the problem of inflation. And 511 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: it starts with the shipping going into our ports. It's 512 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: coming up next. We'll check traffic and the markets for 513 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: you too, if you dare. Charlie Pellett will have an 514 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: update next. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. Sound on 515 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. The White House and Democrats in Congress 516 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: are making progress on a new plan to fight inflation. 517 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: As we're reading on the terminal. We told you earlier 518 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: this hour a breaker here, a bill they say could 519 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: emerge next week. This would follow what the President signed 520 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: in the law this week, an actual bipartisan piece of 521 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: legislation aimed at lowering inflation by way of our ports. 522 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: You heard the President call out the five big shipping 523 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 1: companies last week in a speech at the Port of 524 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: l A. The new ocean shipping law cracks down on price, increases, 525 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: increases transparency, they say. And we're joined by a Democrat 526 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: and a Republican who helped to make the legislation happen, 527 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: Representative John Garamendi, Democrat from California, and Congressman Dusty Johnson, 528 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: Republican South Dakota. Welcome to Bloomberg. Thanks for avais could 529 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: be with you. I want to start with some numbers. 530 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: Three sixty nine to forty two, a rare bipartisan win 531 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: these days. In Washington. Congressman Johnson, I thought Democrats and 532 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: Republicans were not allowed to work together. How did it happen? Well, 533 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: there are a few people in Washington who are interested 534 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: in solving problems rather than just complaining about them. And uh, 535 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: John Garamendy and I are both people actually care about 536 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: getting stuff done. And when you have a problem as 537 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: big as the supply chain crunch and you get hard 538 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: working people and hard working staff, yes, actually you can't 539 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: get some things done in Washington. Still, Congressman Garamendy, how 540 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: did it get done? It took several swings at the 541 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: ball before you got that nice bipartisan win. Well, first 542 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: of all, there was a serious problem, a very very 543 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: serious problem facing agriculture in my district and Dusty and 544 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: own district, and so that gave us the impetus were 545 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: representatives were supposed to be dealing with the problems that 546 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: our constituents has, And so we started working on it. 547 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: And as we began putting together the legislation, well, first 548 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: understanding what the problem was, where it was coming from, 549 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: and then figuring out what to do about it. We 550 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: discovered that it wasn't just agriculture. This is a problem 551 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: that was facing the entire American economy, at least that 552 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: portion of it that exports goods all around the world. 553 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: And so we wound up with Amazon and Walmart and 554 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: home Depot and the retail industry and agriculture and on 555 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: and on saying, hey, we put part of this, we 556 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: want to be part of this because we're looking for 557 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: a solution to our problem. And that's where where it grew. 558 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: And ultimately that led to the bipartisan uh. And I 559 00:31:54,360 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: would say the entire American economy except uh, the ocean shippers. 560 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: They didn't think much of this piece of legislation, but 561 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: they were. I'll be curious to hear a little more 562 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: about that, because we spent the last year here at 563 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg talking about supply chain and inflation, probably more than 564 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: any two single issues, and of course they cross over here. 565 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: They certainly do in your bill, Congressman Johnson. It was 566 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: written out of a need, as you've both expressed here, 567 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: and a big shift in shipping following the pandemic. When 568 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: do we see implementation and maybe a better question alleviation 569 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: on the supply chain. Is this a long term fix 570 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: or can we see something soon? Well, this is something 571 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: we've needed for a long time. You know, pandemic really 572 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: laid there the problem. But the problem has been there 573 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: for a while. The reality is that all of the 574 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: large ocean carriers that take American goods to Asia are 575 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: foreign flag and the five biggest of these carriers control 576 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: seventy year sev the market. And I believe in the 577 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: free market, but the free book market is many buyers 578 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: and many sellers, and in that way, people can keep 579 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: each other on us. That is not what you have 580 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: in this ocean carrier industry. And as a result, they 581 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: were in a position where they could discriminate against American goods, 582 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what they were doing. Last year, six 583 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: of the containers that went back to Asia went back empty. 584 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: At a time that we're in American agricultural goods were 585 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: literally rotting on the ports. So your question about how 586 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: quickly will this get fixed? I talked to the chairman 587 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: of the Federal Maritime Commission. These are the cops on 588 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: the beat that we've given the new authority to. They've 589 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: said that things have already gotten better. That just the 590 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: fact that Congress spoke with one voice, with strong bipartisan support, 591 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: put these folks on notice that if they step out 592 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: of line, if they don't play by some basic rules 593 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: of the road, there are going to be they're going 594 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: to be held accountable. And so things have already gotten better. 595 00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: But I think over the course of the next year, 596 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: as the Federal Maritime Commission completes their rulemaking, you're going 597 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: to see things progress even further. Congressman Garamendi, this legislation 598 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: bars these ocean carriers were talking about from from declining 599 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: opportunities for U S exports to to Congressman Johnson's point, 600 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: going back to port empty. That's something that can take 601 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: effect now. But can it also increase congestion at our ports. 602 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: Probably not. Uh. The problem of port congestion had to 603 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: do with the really the shutdown of the of the 604 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: world economy and then the rapid reopening of it, and 605 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,879 Speaker 1: then the surge of imports into the United States from 606 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: the Asian countries because of the tent up demand and 607 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: the u and also the the amount of goods that 608 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: were available to be shipped. That was the initial cause 609 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: of the congestion. But that congestion also is one of 610 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: the factors in the current inflation problem, the cost of 611 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: because there is such a demand in the Pacific countries 612 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: to import into the United States that allowed the ocean 613 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,439 Speaker 1: shippers to take advantage of that demand and the concentration 614 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: that Dusty just mentioned where there wasn't no other competition, 615 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: So the cost went up tenfold at at minimum at 616 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: least tenfold for the importation for the cost of importing, 617 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: and that cost was directly passed on to American consumers 618 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: in what we now call inflation. So I think I 619 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: understand how you're both going to answer this with With 620 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: that said, but I wonder if you agree with what 621 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: President Biden has been saying and just just as recently 622 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: in your state, Congressman Garamandi at the Port of l 623 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: A about a week ago, that the marketplace manipulation is 624 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: partly the blame and and monopolization for the backlog, that 625 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: there is in fact some gouging going on here. Do 626 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: you both see it that way? First off, I would 627 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: know that we know that this is not a silver bullet. 628 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: I mean, some of this inflation is natural, uh, you know, 629 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: particularly as it relates to products coming into this country. 630 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: There's a tremendous amount of demand for consumer electronics from Asia, 631 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,919 Speaker 1: and so if you don't have enough slots on a ship, 632 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: how do you figure out how do your ration that access? 633 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: And so you do understand white prices would go up 634 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: as you go from Asia to America. It made a 635 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: lot less sense as as it was related to how 636 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: do you get products from America over over to Asia 637 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: where people have purchased them. That did not seem to 638 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: make as much economic sense. And frankly, our bill, you 639 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: asked John if it was going to make the congestion worse, 640 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: it's not because right now we've got all these American 641 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: egg products. They're on the port there in the way, 642 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: they're making it harder to get products in and out. 643 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: Getting those American egg products back out to the customers 644 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: that want to buy them, he is actually going to 645 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: make the whole to run a lot better. The foreign 646 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: flagged ocean carriers, it's not their job to do to 647 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: make their decisions on the basis of what is right 648 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 1: for America. Sure, that's Congress's job. And so these guys 649 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: are going to increase rates. When they can increase rates, 650 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: they're gonna treat American companies poorly, and when we see 651 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: these abuses, it's our job, It's Dusty Johnson's jobs, John 652 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: Garamendi's job to step up and say, wait a second, 653 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: what's the appropriate regulatory regime here to make sure that 654 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: if you're going to show up and use American ports, 655 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: that you have to play by some basic rules of 656 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: the road. That's why this was such a big bipartisan success. Sure, 657 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: I asked about congestion, just out of curiosity. Does it 658 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: cause ships to wait to refill instead of you know, 659 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: getting out of the port and heading back empty, if 660 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,760 Speaker 1: that creates a wait time? And I also wonder about 661 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: the ground aspect of this. Some of the reaction that 662 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: we heard from the carriers UH suggested that we needed 663 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: to do more for for our are landborn shipping process 664 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: here as well, because we've seen obviously trucks lining up 665 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: even after the President brought the ports on the West coast. 666 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: Congressman Garamendi, how tight is that situation now trying to 667 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: find drivers trying to move goods once they get to 668 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: the port. Well, Dusty hit part of this, and that 669 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: is if you're if you have agricultural exports that are 670 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: waiting to be shipped. You now have congestion at the dock. 671 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: The more of those containers that get on the ship 672 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,399 Speaker 1: and go back to Asia, the less congestion there will 673 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: be on the dock. Uh. The other piece of this 674 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: issue is that there's a very powerful economic incentive for 675 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: the ocean shippers to get that container, that empty container 676 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: back to the Western Pacific, back to China, Japan, wherever, 677 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: because they are able to get perhaps ten times more 678 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: payment from the China exporter and they would get from 679 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: the American exporter. That empty container can be turned around 680 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: very very quickly in China, but if it's full of 681 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: American exports, it would probably take two or three weeks 682 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: and maybe even a month before the empty containers ready 683 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: to be put back on the ship. That's very helpful information. Lastly, 684 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: Congressman Johnson, your thought on that as we heard the 685 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: reaction from the World Shipping Council that America needs to 686 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: make the same commitment to invest in its landside logistics infrastructure. 687 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: What do we need to do on our end? Well, yeah, 688 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: the ports are not the only problem. We're eighty thousand 689 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: truck drivers short in this country. There's a lot we 690 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: can do there you know, and just recently we've it's 691 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: gotten harder to get a cd L, and I think 692 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: we probably want to make sure we're right sizing that 693 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: safety and regulatory regime. And and we also have a 694 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: lot of young drivers, I mean people who have driven 695 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: tanks for Uncle Sam. They can drive up and down 696 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,439 Speaker 1: the coast to California all week long, but they can't 697 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: go from Kelly Forny, Arizona until their twenty one. There's 698 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: a pilot project that is going to make it easier 699 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,919 Speaker 1: for some younger drivers, younger drivers. Would you guys both 700 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: collaborate on a trucker's bill, a driver's bill? Well, listen, 701 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: if it's going to move the ball forward. Yeah, I 702 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: mean that's the kind of thing that I think you're 703 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: gonna be Team garam Eddy and team Johnson worked together on. 704 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: Because this is not a one off. We want to 705 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: continue to work to make things better. I'mus for Garamendi 706 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 1: and Johnson. We thank you for being here together. I'm Joe, 707 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: Matthew and Washington. See you next week. 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