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Speaker 1: Quody dots, but Joseph's gotten more. You know. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorite characters to arise out of the sixties is

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Speaker 1: a cat named Billy Preston. And the reason is is

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Speaker 1: that I really dug the way Billy played keyboards, Ham

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Speaker 1: and Orgon in particular. He was amazing. Was on a

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Speaker 1: bunch of the Beatles albums, but you know, I think

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Speaker 1: it was nineteen seventy four. He came up with this

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Speaker 1: fantastic song and it's one of the songs that you

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Speaker 1: get in your brain that you can't get out. It's

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Speaker 1: always rattling around in there, and that's nothing from nothing.

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Speaker 1: Nothing from nothing leaves nothing, you know, but you've got

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Speaker 1: to have something. Today we're going to back up a

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Speaker 1: little bit and reflect on a case that I think

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Speaker 1: some people think that they had nothing, but I have

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Speaker 1: a suspicion they have some It's actually the case of

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Speaker 1: a wash which we've talked about on Bodybags. But we're

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Speaker 1: going to provide an update, and literally, within oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, probably the last hour of me actually taping this,

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Speaker 1: there has been an update involving one of the investigators

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Speaker 1: as well. So without further ado skin into this, I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags. I think I

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Speaker 1: liked Billy so much, Dave, because he just let it

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Speaker 1: all hang out on the keyboard. He would pour everything

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Speaker 1: into it and bounce back and forth, and you never

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Speaker 1: knew where his hair was going to go either. I

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Speaker 1: was pretty amazed by that. But man, could that guy

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Speaker 1: play and sing? And but you know, with an a

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Speaker 1: WASH's case, it would seem as though that who has

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Speaker 1: made her disappear, this person that has made her disappear,

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Speaker 1: I think thought that they weren't going to leave any

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Speaker 1: trace or any element of her around, and I think

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Speaker 1: they have. As a matter of fact, there's been extensive

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Speaker 1: DNA testing. Those cases kind of gone dormant for a while.

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Speaker 1: Dave hadn't it. I mean, it's kind of we heard

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Speaker 1: about it for a long time, then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: just like poof, it's gone.

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Speaker 2: But I think a lot of times that happens, Joe,

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Speaker 2: because when the story begins, like in this particular case,

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Speaker 2: you have a mom of two who goes missing around

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Speaker 2: a New Year's holiday, wealthy, you know, upscale, and she

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Speaker 2: goes missing either away from home, you know, because she

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Speaker 2: works out of town and it's got all the jet

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Speaker 2: set money, it's got the family stuff, it's got all

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Speaker 2: these little pieces of intro and then you start peeling

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Speaker 2: it back and you realize, wait a minute, she's married

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Speaker 2: to a shyster, you know, apparently, and you start so

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Speaker 2: all the evidence starts coming out right away. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, because we did shows with Nancy Grace about it,

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Speaker 2: and all of these new things start popping up about

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Speaker 2: this piece of evidence and that piece of security film.

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Speaker 2: But then once it gets past the charges, everybody kind

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Speaker 2: of hunkers down. Now you can't get information unless it

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Speaker 2: comes out in the court because they're trying to The

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Speaker 2: defense is trying to strategize for how they're going to

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Speaker 2: defend the guy, and the prosecution is trying to keep

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Speaker 2: their angle shut down so that nobody can find out

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Speaker 2: where they're headed and what they have until they need

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Speaker 2: to know. I mean, it's a crazy time of quiet,

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Speaker 2: it is.

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Speaker 1: And can I propose something to you here? Not Marria, no,

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Speaker 1: trust me, no, No, this is something else. I think

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Speaker 1: that one of the reasons that we don't have as

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Speaker 1: much on this case apps as we might otherwise is

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Speaker 1: because it's been eclipsed by the Karen Read case. That's

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Speaker 1: that's what I think. And here's why. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you remember this cat, but do you remember Michael Proctor.

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Speaker 1: He was he was a trooper that was involved in

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Speaker 1: the investigation of the Karen Reid you know.

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Speaker 2: Kerrie clicks side just well, we ever know what really happened?

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Speaker 1: Joe, I have no idea. I really don't, and I've

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Speaker 1: tried to stay away from that case as much as

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Speaker 1: I can because it's so conflicted on both sides. There's

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Speaker 1: not a lot of clarity, and there was such a

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Speaker 1: poor job done at the scene, you know, the way

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Speaker 1: the case was handled, and.

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Speaker 2: I can I very quickly, Joe.

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Speaker 1: It makes me want to talk about it more, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I think about how poor the forensics were.

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Speaker 2: But just so y'all know, I asked Joe about it

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Speaker 2: because it as the we're talking about the Karen Reid case,

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Speaker 2: which is in the same geographical area. This one is

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Speaker 2: Anna Walsh, and that Karen Reid case has gone you know,

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Speaker 2: ended up being a hung jury. She was not acquitted.

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Speaker 2: It just and that what happened. I mean it, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean trial, Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it was it miss trial. Dave or was

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Speaker 1: she found not guilty.

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Speaker 2: No, she wasn't found not guilty. I don't think they

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Speaker 2: were deciding whether to try her again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true and bring bring subsequent charges I had.

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Speaker 1: You know, Michael Proctor was one of these characters that

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, with the death of John O'Keeffe,

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Speaker 1: also John O'Keefe, he was one of the individuals that

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Speaker 1: had been put on the case as an investigator from

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts State Police, and he had made these you know,

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Speaker 1: inflammatory comments about Reid and it had made it into

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Speaker 1: the court record and they actually questioned about him on

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Speaker 1: stand well as as so happens, he was in fact

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Speaker 1: one of the investigators in Anna Walsh's case, and as

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Speaker 1: of I guess it's less less than an hour ago,

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Speaker 1: he it has been stated plainly that he will not

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Speaker 1: be involved in the Anni Walsh case anymore. And so

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Speaker 1: that's you know, I think that that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: big reveal at this point in Tom because he was

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Speaker 1: kind of on the on the leading edge of this investigation,

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Speaker 1: which to say that this is a complex case, I

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Speaker 1: think is an understatement because you've got you've got this

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Speaker 1: beautiful mother who has allegedly been dismembered, and you know,

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Speaker 1: she has been deposited in a variety of different locations,

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Speaker 1: you know, all over this area.

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Speaker 2: Allegedly because they haven't found anything.

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Speaker 1: They have not found anything. The only thing that they

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Speaker 1: have found, and I guess that that's that's a big

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Speaker 1: part of this. They've been processing this DNA evidence for

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Speaker 1: a protracted period of time. They have found evidence of blood,

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Speaker 1: we've got this bent knife that we believe that was used.

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Speaker 1: And of course there's a lot of circumstantial I think

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Speaker 1: information relative to this case, regarding regarding how how the

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Speaker 1: accused husband would have gone about doing these horrible deeds

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Speaker 1: relative to his wife, and a lot of has come

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Speaker 1: to arises as well from these internet searches that he

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Speaker 1: had conducted. Talking about well, one of the ones was

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Speaker 1: trying to and I find this very interesting, how do

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Speaker 1: you how do you stop a body from decomposing? Or

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Speaker 1: how is how do you, yeah, how do you stop

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Speaker 1: a body from decomposing? And you're thinking, well, most those

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Speaker 1: people that would perpetrate a crime would want the body

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Speaker 1: to decompose, as a matter of fact, want the body

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Speaker 1: to decompose as expeditiously as possible. But that leads you

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Speaker 1: as an investigator to think, well, he's retaining the body

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Speaker 1: for some reason. He's trying to prevent it from smelling

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Speaker 1: so that he can continue to do whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that he's going to do with the body, to you know,

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Speaker 1: break her up in any number of ways, and to

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Speaker 1: take her body individually, wrap it and deposited around a

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Speaker 1: variety of areas. There have been landfill searches, which are

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Speaker 1: one of the most gruesome undertakings. And it's not just

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Speaker 1: that you're looking for body parts in this environment, it's

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Speaker 1: everything else that you encounter in that environment. It's very austere,

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Speaker 1: to say the least. And so you've got that, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, you've got this issue of him having

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Speaker 1: gone to gone through the store and spent I don't know,

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Speaker 1: roughly four hundred bucks on implements that could be used

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Speaker 1: both to dismember and to clean up with. So this

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Speaker 1: is what they're faced with, and it has gone silent

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Speaker 1: up to this point. I think that they're The last

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Speaker 1: hearing in this case was this previous March, and that

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Speaker 1: wasn't a huge reveal. But if I'm not mistaken, October,

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Speaker 1: the first week of October twenty twenty four, we're going

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Speaker 1: to have another hearing, and this is going to be

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Speaker 1: a cause hearing.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that it means we're going to learn

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Speaker 1: there's going to be more substance, you know, coming out

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Speaker 1: about what they have. And I think that that updating

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Speaker 1: relative to all of this DNA testing that has gone on.

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Speaker 1: Both obviously the prosecution is going to have it and

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Speaker 1: the defense is going to have it. And here's one

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Speaker 1: of the other things some of this testing that has

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Speaker 1: been conducted. It's it's very unique because these might be

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Speaker 1: destructive tests that they're doing. And what's fascinating about it

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Speaker 1: is both a representative from the prosecute and the defense

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Speaker 1: have to be present for this testing, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the court. I think the court has seen this over

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Speaker 1: the years where it can get rather contentious if the

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Speaker 1: prosecution says, oh, well, we used up all the sample,

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Speaker 1: and the defense says, oh no, that's not the way

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Speaker 1: this operates. We're gonna, you know, ask that a mistrilby declared,

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Speaker 1: or you know, whatever the case might be. So literally,

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Speaker 1: the defense and the prosecution have to be present for this.

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Speaker 1: So this complicates complicates matters. And I'm wondering if this

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Speaker 1: is not the next step in that because Dave, listen,

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Speaker 1: from a forensic standpoint, we hear about this allotting cases.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of cases out there right now where

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Speaker 1: I think that many times the general public begins to

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Speaker 1: think about, well, you have blood, so therefore you can

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Speaker 1: get an arrest warrant and arrest somebody, and that's not

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Speaker 1: the way it works, not in forensics at least, if

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Speaker 1: you find something that you believe is in fact blood,

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Speaker 1: you have to verify that, don't you. You have to

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Speaker 1: do what is referred to as presumptive testing on an

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Speaker 1: item that might have blood on the surface, say for instance,

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Speaker 1: with a knife, or if you have a piece of

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Speaker 1: cloth or even a droplet on the floor. You cannot

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Speaker 1: just simply assume that that is, first off, that it

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Speaker 1: is blood. So that's our first step. We have to

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Speaker 1: go in and take a look at that sample and

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Speaker 1: see if it is in fact blood, and then from

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Speaker 1: that point you can move on to the next level,

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Speaker 1: which is where we're going to take a look at

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Speaker 1: it from the perspective of, well, we verified that it

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Speaker 1: is blood, but is it human blood? Because you can

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Speaker 1: have animal blood as well, if you have pets, in

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Speaker 1: the home. There's a couple of cases out there where

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Speaker 1: people were deer hunters. They tracked blood into the house

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Speaker 1: and it turned out not to be human. It was

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Speaker 1: actually deer blood. So you have to be able to

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Speaker 1: whittle that. Now, well, if you establish that it is

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Speaker 1: in fact human blood, you go to the next level

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Speaker 1: of testing, which of course begins to lead into well

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Speaker 1: typing the blood blood grouping does it fall into. And

202
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Speaker 1: if you have a missing person, if you try to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: well what blood group would on a fall into and

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Speaker 1: hopefully you can establish that, and then of course then

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Speaker 1: you're going to have a DNA fingerprint as well. Relative

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Speaker 1: to that, blood is a curious substance because it's multi layered.

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Speaker 1: It contains several elements to it that actually make it blood.

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Speaker 1: And much of this relative to attempting to determine how

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Speaker 1: old it is, is going to be heavily depended upon

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Speaker 1: not so much time as it is exposure. What this

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Speaker 1: sample has been exposed to over a period time. You

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Speaker 1: can go back and take a look at samples from

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Speaker 1: long long ago. As a matter of fact, famously, we're

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Speaker 1: able to take a sample of President Lincoln's blood and

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Speaker 1: actually do a DNA profile on it. So yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can take historic samples even and essentially profile them. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to hit you with a bit of this is

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Speaker 1: a cold cup of coffee here coming your way. Ready,

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Speaker 1: if her body was deposited in this you know environment,

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Speaker 1: We talked about anaerobic anaerobic environments the other day. That's

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Speaker 1: a case involving an oxygen deprived area where body is

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Speaker 1: beginn to break down. We talked about, I think just

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Speaker 1: the other day about a body that had been found

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Speaker 1: in a septic tank, which is of course an anaerobic environment,

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Speaker 1: which means that there's no oxygen in the environment. And

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Speaker 1: you know what goes on with decay relative to an

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Speaker 1: anaerobic environment. The environment, if I believe what is true

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Speaker 1: relative to what the police are working, is as if

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Speaker 1: she has gone into this aerobic environment in a landfill,

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Speaker 1: then brother, they ain't gonna be much left. And so

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Speaker 1: this blood that makes this blood so very valuable in

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Speaker 1: this case because as far as the corpus delectie that is,

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Speaker 1: the body or the body of the crime, the blood

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Speaker 1: might be all that remains.

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Speaker 2: But Joe, when you guys, you guys forensic people say

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Speaker 2: that we don't have a body, but we have blood.

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Speaker 2: We have what we believe to be blood, and there's

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Speaker 2: so much of it that it is incompatible with life

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Speaker 2: to have lost as much blood. But then when I

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Speaker 2: hear that there's so little blood that they have to

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Speaker 2: have the prosecution and the defense together to witness this,

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Speaker 2: I'm concerned because I would think, based on doing this

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Speaker 2: show with you, you try to hack up a body

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Speaker 2: and you've got a big mess on your hand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you do, you do. And I'm amazed that a

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Speaker 1: bent knife would have been left behind. I think that

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things, you know, because that's that's

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Speaker 1: pretty obvious. And I think any any person that has,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple of marbles rolling around there, would

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Speaker 1: know that if you've used a knife in an actionable

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Speaker 1: form to dismember a body, you would have to at

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Speaker 1: least have some awareness that you could leave some trace

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Speaker 1: behind on the surface to handle, even the hilt, you know,

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Speaker 1: caught up in the little screws or along the edges

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Speaker 1: where the thing is put together. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: they recovered that and also these other elements of blood

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Speaker 1: that they have, you know, and many times, I'm glad.

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Speaker 1: I'm so first off, I got to say, I'm very

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Speaker 1: proud of you that you use the term incompatible with life,

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Speaker 1: because that's something that we work with. Joe. I'll tell you, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, in this case, I'm thinking, were they able

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Speaker 1: to make were they able to ascertain that there had

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Speaker 1: been a copious amount of blood to the point where

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Speaker 1: it was not compatible with life? Was it something that

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Speaker 1: could maybe not be quantified, but maybe qualified to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a This looks like this had been a

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Speaker 1: lot of blood, And how do you how do you

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Speaker 1: how do you assess that so that you can declare it?

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Speaker 1: You can say this is definitely human blood. And not

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Speaker 1: only is it human blood, it's anah Watah's blood. See.

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Speaker 2: I thought this was a simple process, Joe, I went,

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Speaker 2: I used to think that there's blood, you can find

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Speaker 2: out that it's me. It's a blood drop from a nosebleed,

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Speaker 2: but you can tell you can get this to find

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Speaker 2: out it belongs to Dave mac And then I found

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Speaker 2: out that it's not like that at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't I don't know what has happened relative to

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Speaker 1: this that it was was such a thorough cleaning job performed,

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Speaker 1: Perhaps that they only have found a tiny remnant here

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Speaker 1: and how viable is it, because that's one of the

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Speaker 1: things that they're you know, obviously interested in here. And

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Speaker 1: if it's this is DNA testing that we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: if it's you know, we think that it might be

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Speaker 1: a destructive test. If it is that destructive, that means

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Speaker 1: there's a very low sample that they have because they

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Speaker 1: can't you can't continue to go back to the well

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Speaker 1: if you know what a medical wor you know, you

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Speaker 1: can't do that, and so you would need the defense

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Speaker 1: of the prosecution there. There's a certain level of dehydration

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Speaker 1: that occurs with blood, dependent upon how long it's been

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Speaker 1: down and again it's completely dependent upon environmental factors. And

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Speaker 1: you can kind of eyeball it and get an idea

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Speaker 1: that if you've got a sample that has gotten to

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Speaker 1: the point where it has gone from brilliant red to brown,

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Speaker 1: and then there's another phase where it will essentially go

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Speaker 1: to this kind of brown, cracked appearance where it and

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Speaker 1: this is why this is so difficult when you're eyeballing

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Speaker 1: what you think is a blood sample, because it can

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Speaker 1: actually look like chocolate, believe it or not, and it

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Speaker 1: goes from this kind of brown cracked appearance to flaking.

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Speaker 1: But here's the problem. There is no and I repeat,

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Speaker 1: there is no definitive time marker that you can place

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Speaker 1: on that where it is an absolute okay, you're going

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Speaker 1: to have a lot of wiggle room. And one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons is is that you cannot account for all

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Speaker 1: of the environmental influences that have taken place and surrounding

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Speaker 1: that environment. We're talking about Massachusetts. Yeah, it'd be cold outside,

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Speaker 1: but conversely, are you running the furnace in the house

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Speaker 1: and you've got to thind cranked up so that it's

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Speaker 1: so hot in there that it's going to cause changes

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Speaker 1: in any kind of biological element that you have have around.

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Speaker 1: I'm really interested, I think to see what's going to

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Speaker 1: be revealed in this October hearing. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be significant in this case, and we'll learn a lot

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Speaker 1: more about, first off, what's been going on in silence,

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Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of the Karen Ree Clear case.

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Speaker 1: And obviously yeah, yeah, go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Well no, I was going to ask because I, okay,

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Speaker 2: we have avoided the Karen read case. I know that

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Speaker 2: you've had you've gotten drug into it a couple of times,

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Speaker 2: as have I and I was really shocked that we

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Speaker 2: didn't know more in that one because of the fact

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Speaker 2: that it seemed like this is a totally you could

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Speaker 2: figure this one out, and the fact that it isn't

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Speaker 2: just smells bad to me. This is a different case

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Speaker 2: here with Anna Walsh, mainly because they have evidence like this.

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Speaker 2: They've got documents that I had to read through where

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Speaker 2: they had all the electronics you know that you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 2: but they also had the physical searches conducted by police

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Speaker 2: that include photos of Brian Walsh in the days after

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Speaker 2: his wife vanished, where they've got him shopping at home depot,

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Speaker 2: where his car is filled with cleaning products, two large

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Speaker 2: clear tarps, three buckets with lids, and two splash resistant goggles.

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Speaker 2: This is all photographic evidence. What person in his right

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Speaker 2: mind at this age needs this? And then you have

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Speaker 2: making six trips to dumpsters in five days yep. And

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Speaker 2: historically speaking, this is the kind of evidence that they

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Speaker 2: come up with during an investigation. This isn't real time.

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Speaker 2: They didn't have somebody they didn't know to follow him around,

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Speaker 2: they didn't know she was missing, and so this is

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Speaker 2: after the fact where the police go back. This is

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Speaker 2: what gets me about investigations. They are so much there's

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Speaker 2: so much more thought out than I would be to

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Speaker 2: think that, let's find it if there's cameras all around

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Speaker 2: these different areas, and let's see if he was and

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Speaker 2: then they get him.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I'm thinking about what kind of logistics are

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Speaker 1: involved in this for the police. And I've been involved

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Speaker 1: in cases where I've had to go to landfills and

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Speaker 1: they are an absolute nightmare. I mean, it is any

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Speaker 1: I remember when we were kids, we used to play

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Speaker 1: that game called red light, green Light. Everybody would be

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Speaker 1: moving in the yard. You'd be all together and somebody

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Speaker 1: say green light, red light, and you'd have to stop,

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Speaker 1: well trying to stop the process of Okay, I'll repeat it.

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Speaker 1: The process of processing garbage is monumental. Where are the

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Speaker 1: receptacles and then on what kind of schedule are the

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Speaker 1: trucks on they're going to pick this stuff up? And

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Speaker 1: then once the trucks, if they're serviced by specific service,

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Speaker 1: what landfill are they going to go to? Because various

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Speaker 1: different locations and depending upon the region of the country

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Speaker 1: you're in, they might be serviced by private companies might

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Speaker 1: not necessarily be the city of the county that's doing this,

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Speaker 1: and so they have different areas they're going to go to,

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Speaker 1: and again that adds another layer to this. So from

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Speaker 1: that moment in time, we do have a starting place.

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Speaker 1: We have obviously the washes trash. And then you were

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Speaker 1: referring to the husband's mother's location. Where would her trash go?

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Speaker 1: How would you track that down? Oh, and by the

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Speaker 1: way between his house, the WASH's home and his mother's home,

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Speaker 1: where else is there that he could have gone to

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Speaker 1: or did he take some kind of detour and going there?

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Speaker 1: Is there some kind of other location where items could

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Speaker 1: be deposited along the way And all of that has

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Speaker 1: to be factored in. And listen, you've got a very

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Speaker 1: tight window to do this in because if this stuff

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Speaker 1: makes it out to a landfill, they put it out

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Speaker 1: into grids, and those grids are subsequently covered up. You've

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Speaker 1: got this stratification that's going on with this very very

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Speaker 1: fragile biological evidence that begins to break down very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to throw one more thing out that I

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Speaker 1: want our listeners to understand. When you are in a landfill,

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Speaker 1: this is a highly aerobic environment, which means that you've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of microscopic activity going on, and it's

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Speaker 1: made that way so that things break down, and that's

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Speaker 1: why they periodically turn the trash out there. They're always

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Speaker 1: running over it with these big trucks and equipment and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So time is of the essence. If you don't captured

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Speaker 1: at that moment in time, your entire case could be

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Speaker 1: lost and all of the physical evidence can be lost

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Speaker 1: as well. A lot of this goes back to the

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Speaker 1: police having to look at who their primary suspect is

393
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Speaker 1: and what kind of behaviors is this individual normally engaged in.

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Speaker 1: Here's kind of a salient point. I believe the question

395
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Speaker 1: would be for me, is who did he talk to?

396
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Speaker 1: Not where didn't he go, but where did he go

397
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Speaker 1: on a regular basis, And that's within a comfort zone

398
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Speaker 1: for this end of most people that perpetrate a crime

399
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: and they're not an arch criminal out there, which most

400
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: of those types of people don't truly exist. They do

401
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: in comic books. But when you find yourself in the

402
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: midst of having been involved, allegedly involved in something so horrific,

403
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: you need those things that are you're going to feel

404
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: comfortable with, and you're going to feel most comfortable going

405
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: to locations that you frequent, things that you pass by

406
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: every day that you would see, Hey, look there's a

407
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: dumpster behind that convenience store, or hey look there's a

408
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 1: trash can. This person never takes in their trash can,

409
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: just to leave it out there all week long. It

410
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: always sits by the road and we'll arbitrarily throw this in.

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Speaker 1: My gosh, all we have to do is think back.

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Speaker 1: This is one of our earliest cases that we covered

413
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Speaker 1: on body Bags, and that was infamous ingrid lynd case

414
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: out of Seattle, where she'd met this guy on a

415
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: dating app and he brought her home that evening and

416
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Speaker 1: wound up killing her and actually dismembering her body in

417
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Speaker 1: a bathtub. And that how and he went to places

418
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: that were convenient for him along his route, and he

419
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: actually deposited parts of her body all over the city

420
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Speaker 1: in recyclable trash cans. It just so happened. I think

421
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Speaker 1: that they would have had a hard time with this case,

422
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: even more difficult than they wound up having if this

423
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Speaker 1: random citizen had not walked out to their trash can

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Speaker 1: to retrieve it and notice that it was heavy. Look

425
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Speaker 1: down in there, and can you imagine this looks down

426
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Speaker 1: in there and discovers I think it was a footsticking out.

427
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Speaker 1: So you just never know about what a perpetrator is

428
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Speaker 1: going to do. They're going to do, I think those

429
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: things that make them feel most comfortable, because this is

430
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: already complicated enough when you begin to think about what

431
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: kind of intellectual energy has to go into this in

432
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: order to facilitate this pull it off, and you've always

433
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: got it in the back of your mind. I would

434
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: imagine that somebody is always watching, that they're going to

435
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: get on to you that you're going to leave a

436
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: trace behind, And of course they always do. In this

437
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: particular case. The police will exhaust to every possibility that

438
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: they can, and at some point in time you just

439
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: have to call it quits. But you want to talk

440
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: about leaving a trail behind. When the police actually got

441
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: hold of one of the eye I think it was

442
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: the iPad that was found in the home per search warrant.

443
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: This is what was left behind on the iPad. Just listen.

444
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: This is kind of these little bulleted points that I

445
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: have here. Ten ways to dismember a body. Does baking

446
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: soda make a body smell good? How long is someone

447
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: missing before you can inherit? Can you throw away body parts?

448
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: Can you be charged with a murder without a body dismemberment?

449
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: And the best ways to dispose of a body? A

450
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: little light Saturday afternoon reading? Huh?

451
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 2: And something we have to remember is that she had

452
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: said that her husband had threatened to kill her before.

453
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know her mother, who I think is

454
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: from Eastern Europe maybe Serbia, was not even aware of this,

455
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: and that came out later that he had threatened her

456
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: I think, many many years ago, and the mother was

457
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: astounded to find this out.

458
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: We've got Anna Walsh's husband doing some really odd things

459
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: for somebody that's not covering up a body.

460
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 1: Well, I think the big reveal is going to be

461
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: how well did he protect those I always use the

462
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: term elements. I don't really know. I hate to use

463
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: the term pieces or parts. It's I don't know, there's

464
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: something degrading about that. But the elements of her body

465
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: that remained behind, how well were they packaged? Where were

466
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: they packaged? And there's no contact trace left, you know,

467
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: at the home, at the residence where we think that

468
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: this may have happened, in the surrounding area, or perhaps

469
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: even in the you know, what are you going to

470
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: find in the you know, in the in these dumpsters

471
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: where we know that the remains were dumped. Again, this

472
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: is those dumpsters are an aerobic environment and there's so

473
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: much My friend from New Jersey used to say, schmitz,

474
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: so much schmuitz all over the place that you know

475
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: that's kind of layered and gross and disgusting. Is that

476
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: you're not going to be able to recover anything out

477
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: of that. And then you've got multiple locations. So when

478
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: you're going around to multiple locations and with these elements,

479
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: if you will, they're being dumped at various locations, in

480
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: specific in a specific landfill, and they're being covered over

481
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: and over and over again. And that landfill Listen, trust me,

482
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: they did not shut down that landfill because this case happened.

483
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: It's the layering is still going on. And that's another

484
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: thing that that complicates this is that there are specific

485
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 1: areas in landfills. You this is not a randomized place.

486
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: I always tell people this about people think that landfills

487
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: are random. They're not. They're highly complex, and they're grit

488
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: they're gritted off because you don't you don't want it

489
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: to that can't and in simple terms, they cannot afford

490
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: to have this collection in one particular area and not

491
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: spread it out all over the place. So you know,

492
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: Grid one A will be used this day and it

493
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: might be dormant for the rest of the week while

494
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: they're using the other grids, and then they're going to

495
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: go back and it might be a daily shifting that's

496
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: going on. So if you have multiple elements and multiple locations.

497
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: And then since this has happened, Dave, there has been

498
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: layer upon layer upon layer upon layer upon layer, and

499
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: that stuff is just cooking in there all this time

500
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: through the heat, the decomposition, and the chances. I mean,

501
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: just by their nature, they are created to break things down. Okay,

502
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: So it's like, what's the old adage, It's like looking

503
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: for a needle in a stack of needles. And who

504
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: knows what might be the motivation behind all of this.

505
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: And again, he's innocent until proven guilty. He's merely been

506
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: charged at this point in time. But you have to

507
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: look at the totality of the circumstances and who would

508
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: have had the opportunity in order to perpetrate such a

509
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: heinous crime. I look at this and I begin to

510
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: think deep down in my heart of hearts. I've been

511
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: married for a long time, I've got kids. Many of

512
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: us can identify with this. At what point in time

513
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: do you get in a relationship where you say, Okay,

514
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill the person that I've been married

515
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: to and oh, by the way, not only married to,

516
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: but created life with and have attempted to build a

517
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: life with. At what point do you get to And

518
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: I think that that's currently what the police are trying

519
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: to explore. What would be the overall motivating factor for

520
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: somebody to have done this, To do this with a

521
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: person that you've built a life with and completely destroy it.

522
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 2: You know, the reason we even did this update is

523
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: because this case has been followed, it has garnered a

524
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: lot of attention, and yet DNA testing in Anna Walsh's

525
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: murder case is finally nearing completion, with so much of

526
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: the evidence to sift through for both sides. The next

527
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: hearing in the Walsh case is going to be held

528
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks. In October, the Norfolk County

529
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: Assistant DA Greg Connor told the court that he's received

530
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: all the crime lab materials and plans to file a

531
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: notice of discovery with the exception of the state DNA

532
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: Lab testing. He said, the DNA lab expects to finish

533
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: testing on their items at the end of this month,

534
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: and he'll file another notice of discovery afterwards. You know,

535
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 2: we don't really know anything other than the timetable they

536
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: give us. We know they have the information, we know

537
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: they're studying it, and we'll release it because they have to.

538
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: Hopefully, as of the first week of October up in Massachusetts,

539
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna know more. We'll know more about the status

540
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: of the anti Walsh case in which direction both the

541
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: prosecution and the defense are gonna go. I'm Joseph Scott

542
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybacks