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Speaker 1: Guess what will?

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Speaker 2: What's that? Mango?

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Speaker 1: So, I was looking online and I found this description

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Speaker 1: for a job that's definitely not for us, professional cat cuddler.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. And first of all,

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Speaker 2: why is that a job?

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Speaker 1: So? I have no idea. And this posting is from

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Speaker 1: late January this year and it was put up by

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Speaker 1: a cat's only veterinary clinic in Ireland. But here's a

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Speaker 1: list of some of the questions you'd have to answer

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Speaker 1: to see if this job is right for you. And

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Speaker 1: these are all real. Are you a crazy cat person

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Speaker 1: and love cats already? I'm thinking that's enough? Right? Does

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Speaker 1: catitude come to you naturally? I wouldn't say we have

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Speaker 1: high catatude levels? No, have you counted kittens before you

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Speaker 1: go to sleep? Do you feed stray cats in your locality?

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Speaker 1: Does pett and cats make you warm and fuzzy?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I gotta be honest, Mango, I can't say

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Speaker 3: that any of those sound like me.

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Speaker 1: So I can't think of a job you're less suited for.

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Speaker 1: And the job basically involves calming down skittish cats and

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Speaker 1: mister me them into a zen like space so the

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Speaker 1: vets can see them but one of the biggest criticisms

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Speaker 1: of our show has been that we're not kind enough

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Speaker 1: to cats on the program. You are, of course scared

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Speaker 1: of them, and I have let's call it a healthy

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Speaker 1: respect for them. So I thought it was time for

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Speaker 1: a cat intervention, or a cat invention. We're gonna increase

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Speaker 1: our empathy of cats and try to understand them a

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Speaker 1: little better and maybe even call out some of their achievements.

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Speaker 1: And perhaps by the end of this all you and

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Speaker 1: I will be begging for that cat cuddling job.

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Speaker 3: Well I'm not sure I see that happening, but let's

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Speaker 3: dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius.

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Speaker 3: I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my

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Speaker 3: good friend Mangesh how Ticketer and sitting behind that soundproof

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Speaker 3: glass surrounded by cat themed music albums, and there are

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Speaker 3: far more of these than I expected from him. But

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Speaker 3: he's got cat power. Cat Stevens, I think letti Grey

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Speaker 3: Acoustic Kitty, and I didn't see the album cover for this,

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Speaker 3: but I swear is that Garfield's smooth Jazz I hear

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Speaker 3: playing in the background.

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Speaker 1: It is so Tristan was showing me this earlier it's

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Speaker 1: all Garfield inspired music, but my favorite is fat is

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Speaker 1: where It's at, you know, because Garfield eats a lot.

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Speaker 3: Right, Thanks for explaining that that guy has the best

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Speaker 3: taste in novelty albums, and that of course is our

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Speaker 3: friend and producer Tristan McNeil nw Mango. As you know,

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Speaker 3: we've gotten some criticism about not being cat friendly enough

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Speaker 3: on the show, and I have to be honest, it's

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Speaker 3: a little bit surprising how much we've heard from listeners

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Speaker 3: about this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was really shocking to me too,

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Speaker 1: and I actually love all animals, or at least most

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Speaker 1: furry animals. And you know this, but maybe some listeners don't.

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Speaker 1: There was a long period of my life where I've

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Speaker 1: dreamed of the becase vet. And also, for the record,

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Speaker 1: we had cats on a bunch of covers of Mental

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Speaker 1: Flos Plus. The first story I wrote on mentalfloss dot

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Speaker 1: com was about a cat piano, so I had no

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Speaker 1: idea when he came across this anti cat.

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Speaker 2: That's right, you wrote.

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Speaker 3: About what was it called the cats and Clavier. It

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Speaker 3: was this musical instrument that I think it was invented

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Speaker 3: to cheer up a prince or something.

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Speaker 2: Is that right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was like a piano, but instead of strings,

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Speaker 1: you just put kittens in a box behind each key

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Speaker 1: and it was supposed to gently prod the kitten to

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Speaker 1: meyow in tune. And there was this modern version of

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Speaker 1: it that was made with toy cats all tuned to

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Speaker 1: different notes with this dude playing over the rainbow on

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Speaker 1: them by squeezing them in order. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: video of this on YouTube, but all that meowing isn't

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Speaker 1: exactly music, but it's also not not music either.

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Speaker 3: I have definitely seen that video a few times and

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Speaker 3: it's pretty great. And you know, it is interesting how

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Speaker 3: polarizing cats are. And for the record, I should say

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Speaker 3: I don't hate cats. I just happened to be terrified

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Speaker 3: of cats.

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Speaker 2: When I was growing up.

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Speaker 3: I was across the street from Triplet Boys. They had

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Speaker 3: a family cat, and not intentionally, but just by being

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Speaker 3: Triplet Boys, they tortured this cat, and the cat decided

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Speaker 3: to take out all of its anger on me for

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Speaker 3: some reason, attacked me every time I came over there.

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Speaker 3: So I just wanted to put that out there. But

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Speaker 3: it has been really weird as we just make these

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Speaker 3: little jokes about cats on the show. These I guess

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Speaker 3: we think of them as like throwaway comments, and then

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Speaker 3: the angry letters that we hear from people about I

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Speaker 3: don't know if I can listen to this show because

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Speaker 3: you guys hate cats, but we apparently are not alone

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Speaker 3: in this polarizing world of cats. I actually found this

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Speaker 3: quote by the American writer Carl Van Vectim, and he

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Speaker 3: wrote a book called Tiger in the House, which is

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Speaker 3: really all about house cats. And here's how he talks

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Speaker 3: about people's strong feelings about cats. And I actually really

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Speaker 3: like this quote. So he says, one is permitted to

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Speaker 3: assume an attitude of placid indifference in some matters, you know, elephants, cockatoos,

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Speaker 3: hg well Sweden, roast beef, pouccini, even Mormonism. But in

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Speaker 3: the matter of cats, it seems necessary to take a

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Speaker 3: firm stand. The cat himself insists upon this. He invariably

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Speaker 3: inspires strong feelings. He is indeed the only animal who

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Speaker 3: does well.

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Speaker 1: It is true that cats definitely inspire strong feelings. And

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Speaker 1: when we've joked on the show about not being cat lovers,

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Speaker 1: people have ridden in and said, you know who also

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Speaker 1: hated cats? Hitler and also Napoleon, and Mussolini, and I

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Speaker 1: looked this up. It's true they were cat hitters. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure all three of them also hated like broccoli

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Speaker 1: and homework, so it doesn't really mean that much, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of people dislike a lot of things. But

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Speaker 1: I was intrigued by the comments, so I looked up

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Speaker 1: other famous cat haters in history, and it's not a

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Speaker 1: good look for us to be perceived this way. So

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Speaker 1: in addition to Napoleon and Mussolini, you've got Genghis Khan

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Speaker 1: Stalin also hated cats. Caesar Alexander the Great, Eisenhower, for

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Speaker 1: some reason, is on the list, but frankly, I'm a

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Speaker 1: little surprised that Pollpond and Ediemine aren't on there as well.

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Speaker 1: To around out, the list.

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Speaker 2: Has a lot of terrible people.

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Speaker 3: I mean, aside from Eisenhower, who we love for building

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Speaker 3: highways and infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: Of course love infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: I love infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think what's worse than the list of

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Speaker 3: horrible people is when cat fans tell you about all

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Speaker 3: the great people who were obsessed with cats. You've got

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Speaker 3: Abe Lincoln, who was notorious for his love of cats,

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Speaker 3: and his wife Mary Todd once said that cats were

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Speaker 3: his only hobby. Also, they've got the prophet Mohammed, Nikola, Tesla,

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Speaker 3: Saint Francis of ASSISI, Mark Twain, Florence Nightingale, Catherine the Great,

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Speaker 3: Charles Mingus, and all of the Brontes.

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Speaker 1: All the Brontes, even Branwell Bronte.

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Speaker 2: I checked up on this mango. They got Branwell.

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Speaker 1: Well. Obviously, of those two sample sets, I'd rather be

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Speaker 1: associated with the cat lovers than the cat haters. But

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Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out why it is that

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Speaker 1: dictators and world conquerors don't like cats. And here's one

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Speaker 1: theory about it that I found that's popular on cat sites,

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Speaker 1: and it goes like this quote. It might just be

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Speaker 1: that cat people who have dreams of dominating the world

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Speaker 1: can't get used to the idea that cats won't submit

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Speaker 1: to them.

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Speaker 3: So is the idea that cats are just too independent

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Speaker 3: minded for dictators or what exactly?

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Speaker 1: And truthfully, that's also a big part of what cat

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Speaker 1: people like about cats, their total independence. Right, Like people

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Speaker 1: are always saying cats have more personality than dogs and

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Speaker 1: that they're less needy and they're like a little more

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Speaker 1: badass and rock and roll or something. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: this is a little off topic, but one of the

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Speaker 1: cat origin stories I read, and this is an Islamic

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Speaker 1: tale I believe, is that Noah was on his arc

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Speaker 1: and during the storm, he became really afraid that the

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Speaker 1: mice on board would eat all the food, or even worse,

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Speaker 1: that they'd nibble through the floors and create these holes

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Speaker 1: in the arc, kind of just like putting all the

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Speaker 1: other animals in jeopardies. So he prayed for a solution,

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Speaker 1: and God answered his wishes by having a lion sneeze,

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Speaker 1: and out of both nostrils from that sneeze emerged two cats,

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Speaker 1: which is I guess how cats came to be. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of a sweet origin story in

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Speaker 1: terms of myths, but I feel like you can interpret

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Speaker 1: the story in two ways, right, Like cats are either

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Speaker 1: God's gift to humanity, like what adorable little god bless

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Speaker 1: yous they are, or no one needed a ruthless killing

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Speaker 1: machine on a ship and God provided cats.

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Speaker 3: I think I might lean toward the ladder, but I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna be careful. I don't need any more hate mail

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Speaker 3: about this. But I have a different question here, mago,

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Speaker 3: like how useless is every other animal on the arc, Like,

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Speaker 3: why couldn't any of the owls on board pitch in

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Speaker 3: for this effort?

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Speaker 1: I know, well, I mean, the truth is cats are

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Speaker 1: incredible hunting machines. And I read this crazy story in

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Speaker 1: the New York Times from five years ago, and that's

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Speaker 1: when the Smithsonians Conservation Biology Institute teamed up with the

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Speaker 1: US Fish and Wildlife Service to do some research on cats.

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Speaker 1: And they wanted to identify how much wildlife these cats

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Speaker 1: were killing every year, so they used cameras and created

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Speaker 1: this new math model, and basically they were stunned by

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Speaker 1: the results. So listen to this between feral and domestic cats.

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Speaker 1: The domestic ones, you know, are the ones that get

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Speaker 1: to roam out doors while sleeping indoors. Together, they kill

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Speaker 1: about two point four billion birds every year. And also

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Speaker 1: they killed twelve point three billion mammals a year. Wow,

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Speaker 1: and most of those things like shrews and chipmunks and

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Speaker 1: bowls along with mice.

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Speaker 3: I kind of want to know how they came up

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Speaker 3: with that estimate of twelve point three billion mammals, But

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Speaker 3: either way, it's insane and terrifying. So I don't understand, Like,

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Speaker 3: why would this make me like cats more so.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about this on the program before, but those

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Speaker 1: mousers are also keeping places like Disney parks and houses

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Speaker 1: and also city streets more free of vermin. And also

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Speaker 1: I've read this thing about how there are all these

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Speaker 1: cat islands in Japan that are super popular as tourist destinations,

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Speaker 1: just places where there are all these feral cats, And

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Speaker 1: initially I was thinking, like, who wants to go to

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Speaker 1: these islands? But one of the arguments I was reading

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Speaker 1: online that I had actually never thought about was most

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Speaker 1: people can go to a cat island and not be

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Speaker 1: terrified because these small feral cats aren't going.

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Speaker 2: To bother you.

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Speaker 1: They just don't care about you. But you know, if

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Speaker 1: you went to a wild dog island and there were

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Speaker 1: just wild packs of you know, feral dogs there, you'd

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Speaker 1: be terrified. Like, yeah, you'd want to call animal control

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Speaker 1: because roaming packs of wild dogs aren't fun. But you know,

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Speaker 1: the cats don't have that herd mentality.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's an interesting point. But to be fair,

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Speaker 3: if you put the word feral in front of any animal,

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Speaker 3: like I don't want to be near those and I

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Speaker 3: have no desire to hang out with I don't know

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Speaker 3: like Australia's feral camel population or any of these other animals.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, you started talking about cat origins and killer cats,

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Speaker 3: and you were talking about how cat lovers tend to

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Speaker 3: love the animals independence, And actually I had a story

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Speaker 3: that I wanted to share just real quick. You know, so,

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Speaker 3: while free thinking critters might be great for pet owners,

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Speaker 3: they're not great for filmmakers. I was reading this inner

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Speaker 3: with the Cohen brothers about filming Inside Lewyn Davis, and

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Speaker 3: they were talking about how hard it was to shoot

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Speaker 3: the cat in the movie. So here's a quote from

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Speaker 3: an NPR interview that Ethan Cohen did, and he says,

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Speaker 3: the whole exercise of shooting a cat is pretty nightmarish

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Speaker 3: because they don't care about anything. They don't want to

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Speaker 3: do what you want them to do. As the animal

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Speaker 3: trainer said to us, a dog wants to please you.

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Speaker 3: A cat only wants to please itself. It was just

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Speaker 3: this long, painstaking, frustrating day shooting the cat.

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Speaker 1: Which to me is a little refreshing. You know that

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Speaker 1: cats don't want to be seen as film stars. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I've seen lowin Davis and I loved it.

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Speaker 1: But how do they get all those shots eventually? Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing they didn't use CGI.

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, they used a lot of cats,

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Speaker 3: and a cat trainer told them specifically to use a

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Speaker 3: marmalade orange tabby because it's easier to get a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Them on hand.

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Speaker 3: So they had three or four cats ready for each scene,

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Speaker 3: and essentially they had to find cats that had a

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Speaker 3: predisposition for doing whatever it was that they were looking for.

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Speaker 3: So like, if you needed a fidgety cat to jump

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Speaker 3: out of someone's hand, you have to find a cat

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Speaker 3: that tends to do that all the time and hates

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Speaker 3: to be held. So you get that type of cat

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Speaker 3: for one angle. But then you know, if you want

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Speaker 3: them to rub against the table or run down a

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Speaker 3: fire escape, you need to find the cat that wants

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Speaker 3: to do that naturally. And even then when they had

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Speaker 3: those cats on hand, the cats rarely did what they wanted.

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Speaker 3: The Cohen Brothers actually compared the experience to having to

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Speaker 3: film a vulture and true grit. They said the vulture

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Speaker 3: was awful, and they said that was even by vulture standards,

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Speaker 3: And even though the experience was really frustrating, they'd take

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Speaker 3: filming a vulture scene over a cat scene any day.

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Speaker 1: So that is ridiculous, and I do love that story.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and maybe it's something that'll increase

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Speaker 1: our own empathy for cats, But I don't actually think

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Speaker 1: it's a cat's fault that they're so independent.

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Speaker 2: And why is that?

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Speaker 1: Because there's a theory that cats aren't actually domesticated animals.

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Speaker 1: They've never had to be domesticated. But even more than that,

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Speaker 1: the theory goes, these clever, adorable beasts have over a

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Speaker 1: thousands of years, actually domesticated us. But before we talk

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Speaker 1: about that, let's take a little break.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, and we're talking cats. So, Mango,

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Speaker 3: I know you were going to tell us about cats

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Speaker 3: and domestication, but before we talk about a cat in

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Speaker 3: a household, let's talk about cats breaking up households. And

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Speaker 3: you know that totally unfair reputation they got for causing

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Speaker 3: divorces in America.

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Speaker 1: So I obviously know people are attached to their animals,

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Speaker 1: but I had never heard about this trend. So what's

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Speaker 1: the scoop?

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Speaker 3: Well, this comes from Natalie Zareli at Atlas Obscura, and

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Speaker 3: she reports that once the married Women's Property Act took

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Speaker 3: hold in America, there was actually an uptick in the

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Speaker 3: number of divorces, and essentially unhappy couples weren't doomed to

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Speaker 3: stay together, but you still had to have someone at

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Speaker 3: fault and it had to be irreconcilables. So a big

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Speaker 3: strategy from the nineteen tens going forward were couples that

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Speaker 3: they just started blaming their cats. That's pretty crazy. I'd

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Speaker 3: never heard of that, you know.

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Speaker 1: I actually remember one of our friends from college had

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Speaker 1: a grandmother who got divorced, and he told me that

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Speaker 1: the couple staged her walking in on him with another woman,

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Speaker 1: and it was purely so that they had a traumatic

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Speaker 1: story to tell. The New York courtse But you know,

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Speaker 1: just blaming a cat would have been so much easier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that would have been a lot easier.

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Speaker 3: There's actually a story from this piece in nineteen oh

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Speaker 3: three where a man told the judge this horror story.

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Speaker 3: He says a cat met him at every turn, with

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Speaker 3: an angry and a chorus of blood curdling mews. Apparently

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Speaker 3: he'd find cats in his bed sheets, and when he

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Speaker 3: tried to escape them, he was too scared to leave

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Speaker 3: the bed, you know, lest he should expose his bare

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Speaker 3: feet to the claws of numerous pussies and provoke a

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Speaker 3: melody that would ring in his ears for the rest

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Speaker 3: of the day.

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Speaker 1: So that feels so dramatic.

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Speaker 3: Well, he really had to sell it to the judge.

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Speaker 3: And you know, if the judge asked why the husband

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Speaker 3: and didn't just get rid of the cats. Often there'd

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Speaker 3: be some story about his wife being involved in like

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Speaker 3: the ASPCA, which I guess felt virtuous or something.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean there were lots of these stories.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there's tons of these stories. There's actually also a

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Speaker 3: Civil War veteran who claims he could never sit in

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Speaker 3: his easy chair because a cat was always there hissing

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Speaker 3: at him. There was another there was a wife that

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Speaker 3: said she didn't mind her husband's profanity, but it was

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Speaker 3: too much when he heaved the family cat at her,

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Speaker 3: and looking at that case, apparently she wanted twelve hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars for the humiliation of being beamed by the family cat.

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Speaker 2: Just unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: There was also another dude who was upset that his

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Speaker 3: wife kept fifty cats around the house and gave them

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Speaker 3: more attention than him.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean fifty cats would need a lot of attention.

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Speaker 3: Well, in court, she testified that she only had fifteen cats,

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Speaker 3: but you know, since her husband didn't come home most nights,

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Speaker 3: they were both interested in splitting up. And you know,

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Speaker 3: most of these stories were either made up or just

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Speaker 3: greatly exaggerated.

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Speaker 1: So how long did this cat blaming go on for?

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Speaker 3: According to the article, cats were scapegoats for really about

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Speaker 3: a century, and it wasn't until nineteen sixty nine, when

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Speaker 3: no fault divorce laws started becoming adopted by states that

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Speaker 3: suddenly all the cat blaming disappeared from the newspaper stories.

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Speaker 1: Which is pretty insane. And you know, you feel sorry

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Speaker 1: for the cats.

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Speaker 3: I know it's true, it's weird to say that, but

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Speaker 3: I actually do feel a little sorry for them. But

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Speaker 3: you were going to talk a little bit about this

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Speaker 3: idea that cats aren't really domesticated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, you know, aside from that lion sneezing theory

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Speaker 1: about cats, researchers have actually found cat bones near human

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Speaker 1: bones for a while. There's a New Yorker piece on this,

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Speaker 1: but in China, by analyzing the bones and teeth of

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Speaker 1: cat skeletons from about five thousand years ago, scientists can

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Speaker 1: actually show that cats were eating rodents and grains as

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Speaker 1: well as leftovers from human meals. And basically cats were opportunistic, right,

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Speaker 1: Like they realized that rodents were plentiful around these farmers'

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Speaker 1: stores of grain, so they ingratiated themselves, and people were

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Speaker 1: opportunistic realized that cats would kill off the disease carrying

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Speaker 1: vermin for them, and it was relatively little investment, Like

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Speaker 1: they didn't actually have to train the cats. All they

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Speaker 1: had to do was give them some shelter and like

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Speaker 1: a little extra food to eat, and then just lean

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Speaker 1: on their natural instincts. It was totally symbiotic. But you know,

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Speaker 1: cats were never bred for traits the way dogs or

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Speaker 1: cattle were. Like, you know, you look at a dogsund

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Speaker 1: and you see how that dog was bred to go

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Speaker 1: after badgers, right, it was supposed to chase badgers down

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Speaker 1: badger holes and it's fearless, but it's also shape for that,

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Speaker 1: with that sort of long noodleized shape. And you know,

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Speaker 1: cat breeding is a relatively recent phenomenon by comparison.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, are there ways to prove out this

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Speaker 3: theory that cats are only semi domesticated?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there definitely are So there's this geneticist that Washington

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Speaker 1: University in Saint Louis named Wesley Warren, and apparently he

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Speaker 1: and his colleagues looked at DNA from wildcats and breeds

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Speaker 1: of domestic cats. And this is from the New Yorker again.

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Speaker 1: The research showed that genetically cats have actually diverged far

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Speaker 1: less from their wildcat and than dogs have from wolves.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can kind of see this in the wild, right,

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Speaker 1: Like house cats are better hunters than dogs, they can

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Speaker 1: also fend for themselves in the wild, and according to

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Speaker 1: the Peace feral cats have even routinely bred with their

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Speaker 1: wildcat cousins. And according to Warren quote it's not the

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Speaker 1: true differentiation you see between wolf and dog by comparison.

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Speaker 1: His belief is that the modern cat isn't fully domesticated.

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Speaker 3: That is pretty interesting, and to be honest, it kind

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Speaker 3: of explains why I don't fully trust them and I

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Speaker 3: do still almost feel sorry for them.

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Speaker 1: Though, well you shouldn't feel too sorry for them, because

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Speaker 1: some people like to joke that these wildcats have actually

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Speaker 1: domesticated us, and you know, they've obviously stayed aloof while

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Speaker 1: were keeping them shelter and putting scratching posts in our

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Speaker 1: houses and allow them to go to the bathroom indoors.

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Speaker 1: But the biggest argument for them having trained us is

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Speaker 1: that they've conditioned humans to feed them on demand with

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Speaker 1: something called solicitation purring. So this comes from the journal

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Speaker 1: Current Biology. But scientist Karen McComb from the University of

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Speaker 1: Sussex analyze the acoustic structure of cat purs and she

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Speaker 1: actually realized that cats dramatically exaggerate their purrs all to

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Speaker 1: elicit this emotional response from humans. Apparently it's the same

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Speaker 1: frequency that babies cry. And it isn't all cats that

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Speaker 1: do this, it's just cats that have one on one

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Speaker 1: relationships with humans.

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Speaker 3: That is pretty manipulative. I mean it's impressive, but it's

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Speaker 3: pretty manipulative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've got us on a tight leash.

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Speaker 1: And also they have a behavior where they rub up

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Speaker 1: against our legs. As you know, we pull a can

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Speaker 1: out to get their food, and that's supposedly rewarding us

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Speaker 1: for being good to them. But there's one more thing

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Speaker 1: that people say it as feline's clever control over humans,

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Speaker 1: and that's that we actually taste test their food for.

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Speaker 3: Them, you know, I know, we talked about humans taste

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Speaker 3: testing dog food before, but I can't remember it, Like,

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Speaker 3: why do they do that again?

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Speaker 1: So this comes from a Brocky University study from Canada.

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Speaker 1: But basically, the pet food industry has noticed over the

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Speaker 1: years that cats are fussy eaters and they're quote unreliable,

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Speaker 1: expensive test subjects in the pursuit of more appealing cat

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Speaker 1: food flavors, and the study basically showed that human taste

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Speaker 1: panels are you know, a much more cost effective way

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Speaker 1: to test can cat food. Apparently, the paper lists of

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Speaker 1: methodology for human testers to quote profile the flavor and

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Speaker 1: texture of a range of cat food products, including evaluating

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Speaker 1: meat chunk and gravy to gel constituents gross. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: if we're going to keep keeping our feline masters happy,

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Speaker 1: more people are gonna have to get into the cat

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Speaker 1: food tasting business.

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Speaker 2: Well, I definitely have.

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Speaker 3: Come away with some understanding of why cats act the

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Speaker 3: way they do, and maybe even a little admiration for

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Speaker 3: how they manipulate this. But why don't we talk about

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Speaker 3: how cats became so popular in the first place. Let's

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Speaker 3: take a quick break first, back to part time Genius

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Speaker 3: where we're talking cats. All right, Mango so obviously we

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Speaker 3: know that the Internet has done a lot for cat appreciation,

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Speaker 3: and you know, you had grumpy cat Little bubb ruling

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Speaker 3: the Internet for a while, and all that I can

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Speaker 3: has cheeseburger memes being such a big thing.

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Speaker 2: For a while.

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Speaker 3: But actually, looking back, Time Magazine kind of predicted this

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Speaker 3: trend way back in nineteen eighty one, right.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and you and I found an old Time

436
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: magazine cover story from nineteen eighty one that declared that

437
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: cats were the hot new thing. But I'd almost argue

438
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: that the thing that truly brought cats to the level

439
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: of popularity and endearment they're at now isn't the Internet

440
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: or Morris or even Garfield.

441
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 3: Comics, which are some of the things that are in

442
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 3: this Time article, and I do think we should talk about.

443
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: Them, definitely. But one of the things I saw that

444
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: writer Paul Ford points to is the rise of kitty litter,

445
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 1: which is actually a relatively recent invention. I didn't realize this.

446
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: It only came about in nineteen forty seven.

447
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 2: So what were people doing before then?

448
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: So I had the same question, And basically they had

449
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: sandboxes outside, or they'd let their cats go in the

450
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 1: yard Anyway, the story's pretty interesting and Ford wrote this

451
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: up for Medium. But basically, this woman's sandbox for a

452
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: cat was frozen, so she came to buy some sawdust

453
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: from a local mill in Michigan. And the guy's name

454
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: was ed Low. He had been working for his dad's

455
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: mill at the time, and when she described what she

456
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: wanted for her cat, he gave her an alternative. He

457
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: had this kiln dried granulated clay that they just started

458
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: using for grease bills at the mill, and when she

459
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: came back for more, he started labeling it kitty litter

460
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: and tried marketing it. But what's amazing is what a

461
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: business it became. So, according to his obit in the

462
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: New York Times, he sold the product to Ralston Purina

463
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: for two hundred million dollars. And listen to this, he

464
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: owned twenty two homes, a private railroad, a stable of quarterhouses,

465
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: and an entire Michigan town. Isn't that incredible?

466
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: That is crazy?

467
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 3: So basically kitty letter changed how we interacted with cats.

468
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, like all cats were indoor, outdoor cats until

469
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: the advent of kitty litter, and then slow more and

470
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: more cats became housebound. But it's also starting to think

471
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 1: about how much kitty litter we use. So according to

472
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: Ford's research, about twenty companies Strip mine about four billion

473
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 1: pounds in the necessary clay each year, four billion pounds.

474
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: And by comparison, Ford sites the Great Pyramid of Giza

475
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: only weighs thirteen billion pounds.

476
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 2: I like that, that's the comparison to use.

477
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: So all right, so then you're saying, with three or

478
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: four years of work, you could actually build this impressive

479
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: pyramid of kitty letter then, which is amazing. But all right, well,

480
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: let's talk about this time article because it is pretty.

481
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: Fun blind for it. So this piece basically argued that

482
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties were this time that really primed the

483
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: world to love cats, right.

484
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, And here are just a few of the indicators

485
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 3: they show that cats were on the rise. So the

486
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 3: point you made earlier, these cat litter boxes in the

487
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 3: eighties were now odor proof and kickproof, and that made

488
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: keeping a box where your cat poops in the house

489
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 3: far more appealing than it previously was. There were also

490
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 3: three different Garfield books on the bestseller list, which means

491
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 3: cat humor had truly arrived.

492
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what.

493
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: It says about the taste of people in the nineteen eighties,

494
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 3: that three of them were on the bestseller list, and the

495
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 3: California suddenly there were a cat everything. You could find,

496
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 3: a cat resort at, a cat department store, a cat

497
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: rest home, a rent a cat agency, a cat dating service.

498
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 3: I have no idea what that is, but it was

499
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 3: one of the things. Cats psychics, cat acting coaches, and

500
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 3: of course a special annual contest to judge cats mea house.

501
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 3: And then at that time you had Mars, the cat,

502
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: who was officially declared a celebrity cat, you know, essentially

503
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 3: the feline Burt Reynolds, if you will. And then, as

504
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: the story reported, cats were quickly gaining on dogs. According

505
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 3: to the article, thirty four million cats had worked their

506
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: way into homes, which was a fifty five percent increase

507
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 3: over the last decade. If you look at those numbers now,

508
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 3: some reports have cats that closer to ninety five million

509
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: cats and homes, you know, plus the thirty or forty

510
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 3: million feral community cats that you know, they're the ones

511
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 3: that keep rodents at bay.

512
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess for all.

513
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: The jokes about this cat trend, like cats have really

514
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: grown on us as a culture, and while you and

515
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 1: I might not be cat people yet, I do think

516
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: we have to grudgingly admit that they're pretty amazing creatures.

517
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not sure I'm there just yet, but

518
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 3: maybe after a few amazing facts.

519
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: So let's start the fact off.

520
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: Did you know that jazz musician Charles Mingus trained his

521
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: cat Nightlife to go on the toilet. In fact, he

522
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: even wrote a step by step manuel called the Charles

523
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: Mingus Catalog for Toilet Training your Cat.

524
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 3: Well, there is at least one thing you cannot train

525
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: a cat to do, and that's hold a candle for you.

526
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 3: According to the folks at QI, Dante desperately tried teaching

527
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 3: his cat to hold a candle for him so he

528
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: could write at night, but to no avail, I.

529
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: Mean, stupid Dante, Like, why wouldn't you just get a

530
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: candle holder?

531
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: It doesn't make It never occurred to him for some reason.

532
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: So you know, I know will always talk about cats

533
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: incredible ability to land on their feet, but did you

534
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: know that cats can survive falls from sixty feet? Now,

535
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: obviously this isn't a suggestion for listeners to go test

536
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: this out on their cat, far from it, But in

537
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: a nineteen eighty seven study on cats that had fallen

538
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: from tall buildings. Apparently ninety percent of them survived, though

539
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: they did have injuries. And this comes from an old

540
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: pal bill domain. But the study found that cats that

541
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: fell from heights of seven to thirty two stories were

542
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: less likely to die than those that fell from two

543
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: to six stories, which.

544
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: Makes no sense. So do scientists know why this is?

545
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: So there's actually a lot of theories, and there's been

546
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: a lot of research into it. And part of it

547
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: might be that because cat's bodies act as a bit

548
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: of a parachute, and part of it might be that

549
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: cats relax once they've fallen in a certain distance. And

550
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: you know, the reason babies and stumpmen often survive accidents

551
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: is that they bounce because they don't tense up their muscles.

552
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I always love that buttered cat paradox, you know,

553
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: because cats always land on their feet, and butter bread

554
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: always lands faced. So like, if you tie a piece

555
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 3: of buttered bread to a cat's back and then drop it,

556
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 3: will the cat just like hover above the floor.

557
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: I love that. So here's a quick one about cats

558
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: making the world a better place. So in two thousand

559
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: and seven, the New York Times board that Thailand was

560
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: shaming wayward cops. You know, these were the officers who

561
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: were littering, or parking in the wrong place, or even

562
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: showing little abuses of power. And they did this with

563
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: an unusual method. They started making them wear pink Hello

564
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: Kitty armbands, and, as a police chief told The Times

565
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: after the policy came out, police were scared, it will

566
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: be very embarrassing to walk around with Hello Kitty on

567
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: your arm. What's strange, though, is that this is actually

568
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: the second variation on this armband technique. So there was

569
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: a previous iteration where they gave bad cops plaid armbands,

570
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: but unfortunately they were seen as like gestures of pride

571
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: or something, and they started taking them home and treating

572
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: them like metals.

573
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 3: All right, well, here's a strange bit of science. According

574
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: to new scientists, cats don't understand the cause and effect

575
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 3: of tugging on a string.

576
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: You'll have to explain what do you mean by this.

577
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: Well, there was a.

578
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: Study at Canterbury christ Church University in the UK, and

579
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: there was a team of researchers and what they did

580
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: was they attach fish or biscuit trees to the end

581
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: of one string, and then they put another string with

582
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: no treat attached, And according to the researchers, the cats

583
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: couldn't see the cause and effect. The story states, chimps, parrots, ravens,

584
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 3: they all understand that tugging on one end of a

585
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 3: string will bring a treat closer. But cats don't, and

586
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 3: they aren't alone. So pigeons and human infants also don't

587
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: pick up on this, and for the record, neither do dogs.

588
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: So speaking of cats and dogs, do you know that

589
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: if your dog is overweight, there's actually a good chance

590
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: you'll be overweight too? And in twenty ten, the Journal

591
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: of Public Health Nutrition published a study from Ansterdam that

592
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: showed that there's a significant relationship between overweight dogs and

593
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: the BMI of their owners. But if your cat is overweight,

594
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: it's not a good predictor of whether you'll be overweight.

595
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: It's because you and your cat are just you know,

596
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: on your own, living your best lives.

597
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: Is that what it is? Okay? All right, Well here's

598
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: a strange one.

599
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: So Japan is obsessed with cats, right, and that's no

600
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 3: surprise obviously. It's the land of waving porcelain cats that

601
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: sit in stores and responsible for Hello Kitty. I think

602
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: it's where cat cafes started. But now also they have

603
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: cat bars and cat cafe train cars, so they are

604
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: definitely cat obsessed. There's even a hand lotion that's now

605
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: cat paw scented, so your hands can smell more like

606
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: the bottom of your cats.

607
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: I don't know why.

608
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: People want this, but it is available now. But you

609
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: know how cats make biscuits in the morning, right.

610
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when they kind of like wake you up

611
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: and gently need on owner's chests in the morning for attention.

612
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 3: So the craziest story I read is that there's a

613
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: spa in Japan where they offer these cat treatments as

614
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: back massages. You can actually pay to have a cat

615
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 3: need your back. It was really hard for me to

616
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: even just say that statement.

617
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: So terrible.

618
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: It's both amazing and terrifying to me. So do you

619
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: know that cats aren't actually the only creatures they get

620
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: hair balls? Cows and rabbits get them too.

621
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: Oh that's weird, all right. So here's one about Mark Twain,

622
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: the notorious cat lover. As we mentioned earlier. Now, one

623
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: thing he truly enjoyed was giving his cat strange names.

624
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: So here are a few of them. He had Apollinaris, Beeesel,

625
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: bub blatherskite, buffalo bill, Satan, sour mash, soapy sal pestilence,

626
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: and Bambino. And actually add one more fact about Twain.

627
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 3: Apparently Bambino escaped one day and Twain was so worried

628
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: that he did what any cat lover would do, and

629
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: he put an ad in the New York newspapers and

630
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 3: offered a five dollars reward for this. It was a

631
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: large and intensely black cat. Now, Bambino showed up on

632
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: his own in a few days, but putting an ad

633
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: in the paper was a huge mistake. Years later, people

634
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: were still using it as an excuse to try to

635
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: meet Mark Twain. They would just show op at his

636
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: door with like random cat that they claimed, we're definitely Bambino.

637
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I thought I had you with my

638
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: Hello Candy fact. I think you best to be with

639
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: that Mark Twain one to two. So I'm actually gonna

640
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: give you the Cat Fact Trophy today.

641
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: Wow, it is truly an honor.

642
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: And listeners, I hope you've enjoyed today's list of facts

643
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: about cats. If we have forgotten any great fact, please

644
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 3: send those to us. We'd love to hear from you

645
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: part Time Genius and HowStuffWorks dot com. You can also

646
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: call our fact hotline one eight four four pt Genius

647
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: or hit us up on Facebook or Twitter.

648
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: I hope we have redeemed.

649
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: Ourselves a little bit with all the cat lovers out

650
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: there with today's episode. I have a bit more respect

651
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: for cats now. But thank you guys for listening. Thanks

652
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 3: again for listening. Part Time Genius is a production of

653
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Speaker 3: How Stuff Works and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant

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Speaker 3: people who do the important things we couldn't even begin

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Speaker 3: to understand.

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Speaker 1: Christa McNeil does the editing thing.

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Speaker 3: Noel Brown made the theme song and does the mixy

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Speaker 3: mixy sound thing. Jerry Roland does the exact producer thing.

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Speaker 3: Gabeluesier is our lead researcher, with support from the research

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Speaker 3: army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas Adams and Eves.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Cook gets the show to your ears. Good job, Eves.

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Speaker 3: If you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe,

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Speaker 3: And if you really really like what you've heard.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you could leave a good review for us. Do

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Speaker 2: we forget Jason Jason who